May 30, 2024 • 39 mins
In this special Pride episode, the incredible Mario Bystriansky shares his personal and professional experiences as a member of the LGBTQ+ community. 🌈 Mario opens up about his journey, the lessons he's learned, and his dedication to advocating for others within the community. His story also highlights the power of stepping outside of our comfort zone and how it has shaped him into a better ally. Tune in to hear Mario's inspiring narrative and gain valuable empathy, support, and allyship insights. Let's celebrate Pride Month by learning more from history and each other's stories.
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Episode Transcript
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(00:11):
Hello and welcome to this new
episode of a conversation with.
Today we have a very special guest, actually a very
dear friend of mine, somebody that I used to work
with, and also we get to collaborate on projects together.
Now, Mario Bystriansky.
Now, Mario has been working in the world of
HR and people for a really long time, and
he's also a massive advocate in the LGBTQ+ community
(00:34):
as well, doing some really fantastic work inside of
his career space, but also outside in the volunteer
space and doing various different projects as well.
But there's just some really great insight today.
I'm really looking forward to hearing you talk about
what he's learned through his journey of supporting the
community and really advocating and being an ally, not
(00:55):
just for his own letter in that wonderful acronym,
but all of the learning he's done around all
of the rest of the LGBTQ acronym as well.
Just some really great insights.
He's given a couple of really good tips in there as
well, just for people to get even more invested and just
to be kind to yourself in those spaces as well.
We're really looking forward to hearing
what you think about this one.
(01:15):
So kick back, grab a cuppa and have a listen.
Hello and welcome to this new
episode of a conversation with.
This time we are talking to the incredibly talented
and real advocate in the LGBTQ+ space, Mario Bystryansky.
(01:38):
Mario and I have known each other for some time.
I'm not going to bore you with telling you about him.
I'm just going to let him introduce himself.
Thank you and very excited to be with
you here in zinc to record this podcast.
What an introduction.
So thank you for that.
A little bit about me.
I live in London, and I have
been for the last 19 years.
(01:59):
I grew up in small, little village in Slovakia.
Only 600 people.
I always say that because some
villages can be quite large.
And what a journey it has been since
we are here talking about the LGBTQ community.
What a place to live, to experience, you know, all the.
All the letters in the LGBT Alphabet and
(02:21):
just to learn about the community every day.
I love that. Thank you. Yeah.
And actually, I'm really excited to get
your thoughts on so much to do
with this space because obviously you are.
Well, not obviously to the listeners, but obviously to
me, you are a member of the community.
You're a very passionate member of the community.
You are a big advocate for making
(02:43):
sure there's awareness and education and understanding
and all of those sorts.
And you've been doing some really cool work around it.
So I do want to dig into that it'd
be really interesting to just hear some of those
contrasting experiences, which I know is probably quite difficult
because you were so young when you left Slovakia.
But I'd be really interested to hear your perception on
(03:05):
how different your life could have been had you not
come to London and been embraced into the community here.
Sometimes I do wonder what my life would have been
and in a small community, and especially in Slovakia, can
be very conservative and I would have moved out from
(03:26):
the village, I suppose, because even though the issues around
or education around lgbt community was just non existent when
I was growing up, so there was no one really
to learn from, get some insights on, you know, know,
what is it to be like to be a gay
man or part of their community.
(03:47):
So I would have potentially moved out and maybe come to
a larger city, but I'm very glad that I ended up
in London because of the opportunities we have here, just to
meet other members of the community as well.
And I suppose, again, thinking back to my life
in Slovakia, if you will have any listeners that
(04:09):
grew up or lived in small villages, they will
know that everyone knows everyone, everyone talks about everyone.
So that's just one another challenge of it.
And the second would be similar countries like Slovakia, where
on one side you have the religion that you grew
up with, that taught you a certain way how people
(04:31):
should behave and who they should be with, versus once
you start exploring who you really are, you start to
realise, actually, this is who I am, and there is
a whole new, very exciting part of world where you
belong to and is there for you to experience.
(04:53):
So that transition, for me, going from that small
village in Slovakia to London, it didn't happen instantly.
I think many people that went through realisation or
transition will find this familiar, that first you needed
to understand who you really are, come to terms
with it, because just 18 years, 19 years, growing
(05:16):
up in certain way and just hearing one sort
of rules that change doesn't happen overnight.
So it took me few years to accept
who I am before being able to really
immerse myself in the community and learn. Amazing.
Thank you so much.
I'm really interested to hear about your
journey, obviously personally, but also really professionally,
(05:40):
because I know you've done some really
great work for LGBTQ+ advocacy.
So can you tell me a little bit about the
work you've done in your organisation as a volunteer?
Some of the things that you've been involved in and
obviously you do some events for us as well.
So I'm really just interested to
hear a little bit about that.
What's kind of inspired you to get
(06:00):
involved in this work in general. Yes.
And it might sound as a bit of a
cliche, but I suppose there is certain time in
your life and one might be thinking, you know
what, it's time to give back to the community.
Because many members of the community would have.
Not all of them, unfortunately, but some would have
(06:22):
some kind of a support to go through this
phase in their life, if you like.
And not many of us had that.
So I suppose once you are on the
other side, then you have almost like.
I had that feeling, you know what?
I think I am very.
I feel very comfortable in my skin and I
(06:45):
would like to give back to the community, and
one way of being able to give back to
the community, which I found very, very inspiring, and
I really, really enjoy it as my current workplace,
my company is very open to encouraging, actually, employees
to create groups, various groups, employee resource groups.
(07:09):
And when I heard a couple of years ago that
there was this initiative where the diversity and belonging programme
was really kicking off, they, of course, wanted to create
an LGBTQ+, group for employees as well.
And I immediately put my hands up that
(07:29):
I would like to be part of it.
I wanted to not just give back to the
community, but also to learn from the community, because
there is so much I don't know.
And being part of an employee resource group really
make you learn about other members of the group.
And so, for example, we have, as one of
(07:50):
the leaders, is organising lunch and learns and activities
and different meetings where we educate our employees.
I have learned so much about the other members of the
group, and a couple of months ago, we have had a
session on trans rights and that also included medical issues around
(08:11):
being trans, because that's a huge part of it.
And I'll be very honest, I have not
been exposed to that kind of information.
I have not sought any information around these topics
and this really helps me to do that.
And this journey of discovering, exploring
is really helping me to understand
those other members of the community.
(08:33):
So going back to your original question, it's
almost like I view this journey twofold.
One is to give back to the community, and
the second part is focusing on me, my learning,
my understanding, and also being able to.
When I engage more and more with your community, I
(08:54):
can speak to these certain topics because if you want
to be, I suppose, an advocate, you should not necessarily.
You need to know everything
because that's almost impossible.
But being able to talk to those members of
the community and understand what they are going through,
what their struggles are and I have also recently
(09:16):
volunteered to become one of the lgbt charities where
the trainers would go to mostly there would be
healthcare providers or government organisations and educate the staff
on the LGBT+ issues.
And it's often.
Again, it will sound a bit of a cliche,
but through that education, you get to know the
(09:39):
group or the people of that community better because
you will know what their struggles are.
You will know what they are going through.
So that's why the educational is a very important part
of what people like me do, to share that knowledge,
for people to be able to understand that actually part
of the individuals, the lgbt community, are same people.
(10:01):
We have the same struggles in life, same issues like
anyone else, and we're just part of the lgbt community.
And I think if you are able to get
that message across, I think people will find it
much easier to understand that, yes, you are just.
You are just like me.
And when you see that coming through, you then have
(10:24):
little bells ringing in your head, like a happy bell
said, yes, you know, I have helped someone to learn
a little bit more about the community.
That's amazing.
And actually, yeah, you're so right.
So, obviously, you know, people's experiences in the LGBTQ
community are going to differ because of the systematic
(10:45):
and the social challenges that exist in our societies
across different parts of the world.
But on this core level of our human nature and
all of the other things, we are all the same.
So that's a really interesting part.
And when I think when you can connect with the
human in the room, like you say, that's when you
(11:06):
see all those bells going off for people.
And that's when you're like, this is
why I do what I do.
Because now you can see me as a human being and you
can see other people in this community as a human being.
Now, all of a sudden, it's much easier
to have these much more constructive conversations.
So I love that that's something that
you get to see as well.
It's really rewarding, definitely.
(11:28):
Like, this work isn't easy.
It's really tough sometimes.
A because you're having to do a
lot of self reflection on yourself, right?
So you're learning loads now about trans rights,
about bi lives, all of this sort of
stuff intersects, etcetera, all of these other wonderful
things that make us so different.
So you're having to reflect on your own
prejudices and your own biases aligned to those
(11:50):
groups of people, which is hard to do.
But through that, you're learning.
Then how can I articulate this for other people?
How can I then make this so that other people
don't have to find it so difficult to learn?
And how can I connect with these people?
So I love that you've got that base level of
we are all human, we are all the same.
(12:10):
But actually some of these external societal factors
are, meaning that some of our struggles and
some of our challenges are different.
And I think that's a really amazing place to be
when you do this sort of work, especially in the
community as well, because there's so much anti trans rhetoric,
especially when it comes to our governments.
You know, we're about to go for a general
(12:32):
election, the US are about to have an election.
Those sorts of things always throw up loads of
stuff about the community because they're having a bit
of a culture war with each other because they're
trying to win the most votes.
So it's really tough, this work, but those lovely light
bulb moments are exactly why we do it, I think.
(12:53):
Absolutely, 100% agree.
So it sounds like you're getting
lots out of this learning experience.
It sounds like, you know, you're getting just as
much as you're giving, which is an amazing experience.
I think.
I'm really interested to know if the work
that you're doing, the involvement in the initiatives
for the community, has that influenced your own
identity or even your own sense of belonging
(13:16):
within the community, maybe even within work.
Is there any way that that's influenced
any of those things for you?
Absolutely.
I think so.
Going back to that journey when the discovery journey,
who I really am, and essentially then coming out
to the world, if you like, because I was
(13:37):
not necessarily part of the community.
When I came to London, for example, I
felt I definitely missed out a lot.
And by learning and, you know, coming out and
immersing myself in the community, I felt that.
I think the community, I feel that they do really look
(13:59):
after each other and they do stick with each other.
And sometimes I would say maybe it's not helpful, because
then it's very hard to put your foot in your.
In the door, right?
Because you establish those communities
and people know each other.
I find it so amazing, like, how small the
world can be, especially if I'm thinking just.
(14:22):
Just gay world in even a big city like London.
I'm not gonna necessarily go into the
detail, but, you know, there are some
safety concerns that the community has.
So that's why they're very careful, like, who they let
in and who they go out with, where they go.
By just learning about the struggles, you then understand
(14:42):
why, because especially there were you know, if there
are some new news articles or, you know, something
bad happened to the community in the news, which
a couple of months ago, you know, there were
few reports in the news when the, you know,
members of the community were attacked.
So then you understand why it's such a.
Sometimes it can be such a closed community.
(15:03):
And just going through that journey and learning
about this issues, it made me understand why.
And I give you also another example.
I have joined a queer dancing club recently, which
you will know, and one of the house mothers,
as we were going to a social, after having
(15:24):
a dance class, we always go to pub and
socialise, chit chat, talk about our dancing routines.
And this house mother would always make
sure that we are going together.
We never leave anyone behind.
If someone has not left the studio, for example, we always
(15:46):
make sure that we wait for them and we go together.
Before, I would not have thought about why
this person is doing this, but knowing what
the community sometimes is facing, again, helps you
to understand why they behave in certain way.
So I'm not sure if I'm answering your question,
but that learning was essential for me to understand
(16:11):
why the community sometimes behaves the way they are.
Yeah, I mean, listen, it hasn't answered
my question at all, but it.
But it's amazing because you've picked
on something really important there and
I think this is often forgotten.
So when people from the cisgender and heterosexual
community look at the LGBTQ community, often they
(16:36):
see celebrations like pride, they, you know, they
see flamboyant behaviours and things like that and.
And they think, well, this is all really
lovely and really nice, but actually, the reality
is those things are definitely amazing.
And, you know, even just like the use
of the word queer now is really celebrated
where it used to be, be a slur.
So there's all of those things that are great,
(16:57):
but there is this underlying safety concern and you
see it in lots of different things now.
You know, I'm very straight passing, so I can walk
down the street and know that if I get attacked,
it's not going to be anything to do with the
fact that I'm bi or anything like that.
It's literally just going to be because
maybe I'm a woman, maybe that's one
(17:18):
of my safety concerns or whatever else.
Whereas you've always got this underlying feeling,
which, fortunately for you, you've never had
to worry about and you've never really
thought about until you started doing this
learning and really immersing yourself into the
community, which is wonderful for your experience.
But the reality is this is
always this underlying safety concern.
So I think that's something that is really important during
(17:40):
pride month, when people are celebrating and, you know, saying
all these wonderful things, actually consider the damage that's being
done with, you know, the various policies that we're having
to deal with in the government structure, all of the
historical things that have forced us to this point where
we've had to separate ourselves in these groups to be
(18:00):
able to go, hey, I need the same rights as
my heterosexual friend who is having maternity or paternity or
whatever.
You know, there's so many different things,
especially when it comes to employment.
It's the idea that actually,
it's not just a celebration. This is.
Let's learn about the history.
Let's understand how we've got to this point
now and what the future looks like.
(18:21):
And the future is extremely bright and amazing.
But I do think it's really important to
look at both sides of the coin.
And I think a lot of people don't necessarily think
about that when it comes to things like pride.
And this podcast is going out in Pride month, so,
you know, we want to celebrate all of the amazing
things the LGBTQ community contribute to the world, give to
(18:41):
us in our organisations, and all of those wonderful things.
But we can't forget about that other side of it.
Even if, like yourself, people have been
quite fortunate to not have to be
in danger and have those safety concerns.
Personally, we all know somebody that has had that.
And your dance academy is incredible.
I do want to talk about it
really quickly, just because we got to.
(19:04):
A couple of us got to come and see you
perform, and it was just this absolutely beautiful experience because
obviously, we're very proud of you and your experience, but
just being in this huge room, it was in Alexandra
palace, it was in a beautiful theatre, and there were
just hundreds of people there that were 100% safe.
(19:26):
Right.
So not everybody's from the community.
Lots of people in there would have been straight.
Lots of people in there would have been Cisco.
But actually, everybody there was an
ally or from the community.
And it felt like such a warm, safe space
to be in that vicinity with other people that
were just absolutely rooting for everybody on stage.
(19:46):
It was just a really beautiful experience, and I
think that's what happens when people start to become
more knowledgeable and more aware of the things that
have happened before that weren't so great, but also
some of the really good things as well.
So just keeping that balance, I
think, is really, really useful. Yes.
So I'm going to come back to the question. Yes.
(20:06):
Okay, let's try again.
Let's try again, just because
I'm really interested to hear.
So, obviously, I've known you for a long time.
We used to work together,
we collaborate on projects together.
Now, we obviously know each other personally as
well, but I'm really interested about how the
work that you've been doing with the volunteer
company, but also with your.
Within your organisation and your own learning, do you
(20:29):
think that's influenced any aspects of your own identity
or even sense of belonging in the community? Definitely.
And like often in this case also, this is.
It's part of the journey, and I'm still
on the journey and still the very beginning.
I feel I'm on this journey because
there's still so much to learn.
(20:50):
And the more I learn, the more I realise how much
more there is to learn, which is, on one side, scary.
But they say I'm super excited that, oh,
my God, I still don't know about this.
I still don't know why I should research
about this in terms of belonging to.
And I think just reflecting on this,
I think belonging to the community.
(21:10):
I think me personally, whilst I feel that I have,
you know, I'm on a good journey and it's an
exciting journey, and the start of the journey, I feel
I need to do more to reach out to the
other groups within the lgbt community, because just because I'm
(21:33):
a gay man, it doesn't stop me to learn and
be part and experience other members of the community.
So, for example, with a very good friend
of mine, we went to a comedy event.
It was a lesbian comedy event.
(21:53):
And you can say that that was us.
I was like, okay, it's not taboo to say that
we went to a lesbian comedy because it was amazing.
It was so good.
And the thing is, so I.
For me, obviously, we had such a great
time and the acts were very, very good.
(22:14):
But again, just to see and be part of the
lesbian community, which doesn't really happen very often for.
Can I generalise? Maybe.
But how I feel that I think all these
groups can intermingle and there's opportunities for us to
mix a little bit more, if you like.
(22:35):
So being.
Instead of always just going to the gay clubs, going
to a lesbian comedy night, it was such a.
It was such a good fun and.
And that sense of belonging in
that venue with those people.
It was, I think, for me, a little bit
(22:55):
on another level, because you can go to lots
of gay clubs and gay venues and so on.
But this was specifically, obviously, it was
open to anyone, but it was very,
really geared towards the lesbian community.
And just being there, feeling the energy, being
(23:16):
amongst those people was just very amazing.
And I did felt at that point that I
reached out from my gay world, if you like,
to lesbian world, which was very uplifting.
So these experiences of me really pushing myself
to learn about the other communities helped me
(23:37):
to then reach out to those communities.
I love this.
Like, I had no idea that this is how you felt about.
Obviously, we both really enjoyed it.
It was incredible comedy, and considering it
wasn't like a big professional one, the
comedians were just top notch.
They were so, so good. But, yeah, you're right.
(23:57):
There was just such a buzz in the
room and such a feeling of supporting.
And you weren't the only man there.
There were a couple of other men that were there, but
it was actually really nice as a woman, you know, who's
by just to be in that space, but with my friend
who is an ally to it as well.
And I think I know you've done a lot of
learning in this space as well, since you and I
(24:19):
have been talking about these sorts of things, but I
had no idea it had such an impact on you. So I'm.
I'm really happy to hear that because it
was a wonderful experience for me as well.
We have to go back.
We should shout about it because
it's such a good comedy. I agree.
I'm really interested then.
So it.
All of this learning is amazing.
There must have been one thing or something in
(24:39):
particular, whether it was in a project within your.
The work that you're doing in the space, whether
it's a personal, significant thing that happened, but is
there something that's just really kind of clicked for
you and gone, wow, this is really important work?
Definitely.
When it was part of the lgbt group that
(25:03):
I co facilitate Koran in my company with my
other colleagues when we had our first lunch and
learn on the LGBTQ history month.
And I have not really done any research
(25:25):
into, you know, how it all started.
I mean, we stonewall riots, very famous, so I would have
heard of about them, but I never really explored, if you
like, the history of how it all started and once.
So I would advise anyone who is
not necessarily knowledgeable around how the pride
(25:48):
marches or the Pride month celebration started.
Pride protest.
When you have pride protests. Exactly.
So if you have, especially as we're celebrating Pride
month, I would encourage you, if you have 510
minutes on the train, on the tube, just search.
There's lots of articles and learn about
(26:11):
why and how it all started.
So once you dig into the history a little
bit more, you see how life was before.
Now, to your point exactly.
In many parts of the world, pride celebrations, a big,
big party, everyone is having a good time and we
love it, but it wasn't always the same way.
(26:31):
And when you read about how the community was
hiding in underground spaces or hidden spaces just to
be able to be themselves among the, their people
and then you hear how police went to arrest
them, then you realise, oh, okay, it's not just
(26:53):
about the whole big party, it's still, you have
that element, that protest element, how it all started.
And we must not forget about that.
And I think when I started learning more about
the history, it really made me almost like not
almost definitely be thankful for all those people that
(27:15):
actually started it because it's not easy, you know,
imagine being a lesbian, gay, trans person in, in
New York, for example, all those years back and
your family doesn't know about you.
You're hiding from your family,
hiding from your friends.
And then now suddenly you are with your people and
(27:36):
police comes in and they arrest you for what? Right. So.
And then they took that courage
to actually say no to this.
I'm not going to put up this with this
anymore and I'm going to go out to the
streets and I'm going to go and protest.
And thanks to them, many of, we have many
of the rights we have thanks to them.
(27:58):
So I think that was one
realisation where it really clicked.
If you like, like you said in my head is, you
know, what you want to be part of spreading the news,
spreading the love and, you know, be part of the movement.
(28:20):
Maybe that's not the right word.
You know, think about all those people that
have started it all those years ago and
you are almost like continuing that word.
And actually with one of our
very good friends, you will know.
So we are both from Slovakia and what we
(28:42):
said that this year we will go together to
Bratislava pride to support the local community.
And I'm not familiar the scene in Slovakia, but
I know there are still loads to do for
the community to be accepted in Slovakia.
So we are both prepared, having experienced pride in the
(29:06):
UK, for example, where we go out, have a good
time, celebrate, dance, just have an amazing time.
We know that that will not necessarily be replicated
in Bratislava where it's still a proper protest.
And that's.
I think this will be an interesting experience
(29:26):
for both of us experiencing that other part
of celebrating pride, which is so important. Yeah.
And the counter protests that go with
that as well, which you don't really
see in Brighton, in Manchester, in London.
All of the ones, the New York, the Copenhagen, like all of
the ones that we've been to or about to go to.
(29:48):
Then actually you don't see the counter
protests, and that's going to be, I
think, quite eye opening for you there.
So I think that there's a couple of things that
you've just said that were really interesting because I think
something you said earlier that has just come back to
me where you were talking about how great it is
that the community is so close knit.
But sometimes that can be quite a challenge because
(30:09):
sometimes it can be a little bit clicky.
And it's really interesting because there's been
a lot more in the news lately
about algae baby, the group that's LGB.
So they're excluding, purposefully excluding trans.
So there's a whole different aspect around how people
are separating themselves in the group as well.
So I love that you're noticing groups coming together and
(30:31):
you're learning about the different parts of the LGBTQ acronym,
because I think that's more of what we need to
do rather than this separating and pulling apart.
And then obviously also we need to
think about the fact that Jericho in
the UK, we're quite progressive in our.
I'm going to use the word acceptance.
(30:52):
I don't like that really, when I'm talking about this type
of work, but I think it makes sense in this bit.
We are much more progressive in our
acceptance of people from the LGBTQ community.
I would probably say LGB more likely, but actually, that's
not the case in a lot of other countries.
Plus, we are a hell of a long way to go
in the UK to get everything up to equality, but that's
(31:17):
something that you're going to experience, I think when you go
to Bratislava and it's a city that you know really well,
you know, I know you fly to there when you go
see your family, and so does the person you're talking about.
But it's probably going to have a very
different feeling and a very different meaning for
you when you go and experience that.
I'm sure there'll be some really wonderful things with
it as well, but it's really good that you're
putting yourself in those uncomfortable positions to help yourself
(31:40):
grow and learn a lot more.
I think we do our best learning when
we're uncomfortable, hence why we do this work
in the first place, I think to really
help people safely get into uncomfortable spaces.
I'm really interested to know as someone that's very
personally, deeply committed to the work that you do,
what piece of advice or couple of pieces of
(32:01):
advice would you give to individuals that maybe are
struggling to figure out how they are part of
the community or how they can even do this
sort of work in general within their own organisations?
I think definitely small chunks, taking everything
in small chunks, I guess, is a
(32:23):
very universal rule with anything you do.
So definitely the learning part is crucial
to be able to understand what other
members going through, what their challenges are.
The other part then will be also it's okay to
(32:44):
make mistakes as well as you get along the journey
of discovering or wanting to be more involved.
And I give you an example where I'm glad how
we are bracing using pronouns more and more in, at
work, in our friends, amongst our friends as well.
(33:06):
Few times I made a mistake when
I did not use the correct pronouns.
I always used to feel so bad about myself,
oh my God, I used the wrong pronouns.
But then we had a chat about in general, about using
pronouns with my co leaders that we run this group.
(33:30):
And actually what we discussed was that, you know what,
it doesn't matter if you make a mistake, if you
misgender someone or you don't use the correct pronouns.
As long as you can reflect and just understand that,
you know, sometimes you make that mistake and you know,
(33:50):
there is way around it, you can just quickly just
pause and say to that person, oh, I'm good, I'm
so sorry, I used the wrong pronoun and there's nothing
wrong with that because I think most of the people,
they will appreciate you trying to use the correct pronouns.
And if you make a mistake, that's fine, as
long as you are not doing it deliberately.
So I think that's another, another part, or I
(34:13):
guess another advice I might be able to give
out is that don't be too harsh with yourself.
As you learn about, for example, the pronouns, it's fine
to make mistakes as long as you want to learn.
And next time use the correct pronouns.
As long as you know that's in your head, that's fine.
So definitely don't beat up yourself too harshly because like
(34:37):
going back to what you said about this social constructs
and the society, it was drilled into our heads that,
you know, he needs to use he or she.
So it's very difficult to then differently or think
the other way because for, well, I don't know,
don't want to give away my age, but if
(35:00):
it was drilled into your head for almost 40
years, then it's very hard to your brain then
accept or learn about something new and different. Yeah.
And I think that's a really important message.
It's definitely a message that we work really hard
(35:21):
to get out in our training sessions, in coaching
sessions, in conversations that we're having with people.
It's okay to get it wrong.
It's totally okay to get it wrong.
Like you say, don't beat yourself up.
I think that there's intention is fine
as long as we also consider impact.
So I've definitely done it.
I've got trans friends that I've misgendered use
(35:42):
their previous name sometimes, you know, their dead
name, which is how it's referred to all
of those sorts of things.
And it's okay because I didn't mean to do
it, and I'm working to correct it, and I
think that's all that you can do.
But like you said, it's been drummed into us for so
long that we have to refer to people in a certain
way that, yeah, it takes a while to undo that stuff.
(36:04):
So being kind to yourself while you're learning, I
also would just add a quick one, which is
just a bit of a caveat that I think
people could give when they're talking to people.
You know, if it's me and I'm talking to
someone from a different identity to me, I'm gonna
be like, look, I'm learning more about the gay
(36:24):
community, for example, the gay men community.
And while I'm learning, can you just,
like, call me out on things?
Like, if I say something wrong, just tell me,
like, I'm not gonna be precious about it.
I just need to learn.
And I think if you can let go of
the ego a little bit with this stuff, it
can be really helpful in creating those really safe
spaces and opening up those conversations.
(36:44):
And then you get to learn so much,
and you get to immerse yourself in so
many different parts of life in the world.
Like, you got to go to a lesbian comedy show.
You never would have done that
in a million years before.
But because you're learning and growing and all of those
sorts of things, and I've got to experience so much
through you and the way that you live and all
of the wonderful experiences that you've had as well.
(37:05):
So I think that's kind of a
nice way to wrap up the session.
Just the idea that, like you said, be patient with
yourself, be kind to yourself while you're learning, but also
just know that you will get it wrong. It's totally.
Okay.
Just keep learning, keep striving, keep having
good intentions, and then your impact hopefully
matches up at some point and you
start to do things really, really well.
(37:25):
Sadly, that's all the time we've got together today.
I know we'll probably chat for hours
later anyway, but I'm sure we could. Yes.
I want to thank you so much for being here,
because I know the work that you do is really
important to you, and I know that talking about this
stuff is really helpful for people to hear, to know
that it's okay that they don't know all the answers.
(37:46):
You know, you're from the
community, I'm from the community.
There's so many people around us from the community.
We don't know everything.
There's no possible way, like you said,
that you can know absolutely everything.
So it's really, really important that
you're able to get heard.
And I'm really glad that we
were able to this conversation today.
No, thank you for having me. It was.
(38:07):
It was a pleasure. Lovely. Thanks, Mario.
Speak to you soon.
Speak to you soon. Bye.
Of course, I'm going to be biassed and
say I absolutely loved recording that podcast.
But just fantastic insights from Mario.
(38:27):
Definitely some new information from me that I didn't
know about him, but also about the learning and
the journey that people go on, even if they
are in the LGBTQ community as well.
Just some brilliant insights there.
I think that idea of just being really kind to
yourself and acknowledging that you're learning is a really, really
good way to help people to understand how to support
(38:48):
you on your learning, but also how you can encourage
people to do the same as well.
Just fantastic.
Absolutely love spending that time with Mario there.
We hope you enjoyed it just as much as we did.
We hope you got something useful out of it,
whether it's for your employer, whether it's for yourself,
whether it's for a friend, and we can't wait
to see you on the next one.
Hello and welcome to this new
episode of a conversation with.
Today we have a very special guest, actually a very
dear friend of mine, somebody that I used to work
with, and also we get to collaborate on projects together.
Now, Mario Bystriansky.
Now, Mario has been working in the world of
HR and people for a really long time, and
he's also a massive advocate in the LGBTQ+ community
(00:34):
as well, doing some really fantastic work inside of
his career space, but also outside in the volunteer
space and doing various different projects as well.
But there's just some really great insight today.
I'm really looking forward to hearing you talk about
what he's learned through his journey of supporting the
community and really advocating and being an ally, not
(00:55):
just for his own letter in that wonderful acronym,
but all of the learning he's done around all
of the rest of the LGBTQ acronym as well.
Just some really great insights.
He's given a couple of really good tips in there as
well, just for people to get even more invested and just
to be kind to yourself in those spaces as well.
We're really looking forward to hearing
what you think about this one.
(01:15):
So kick back, grab a cuppa and have a listen.
Hello and welcome to this new
episode of a conversation with.
This time we are talking to the incredibly talented
and real advocate in the LGBTQ+ space, Mario Bystryansky.
(01:38):
Mario and I have known each other for some time.
I'm not going to bore you with telling you about him.
I'm just going to let him introduce himself.
Thank you and very excited to be with
you here in zinc to record this podcast.
What an introduction.
So thank you for that.
A little bit about me.
I live in London, and I have
been for the last 19 years.
(01:59):
I grew up in small, little village in Slovakia.
Only 600 people.
I always say that because some
villages can be quite large.
And what a journey it has been since
we are here talking about the LGBTQ community.
What a place to live, to experience, you know, all the.
All the letters in the LGBT Alphabet and
(02:21):
just to learn about the community every day.
I love that. Thank you. Yeah.
And actually, I'm really excited to get
your thoughts on so much to do
with this space because obviously you are.
Well, not obviously to the listeners, but obviously to
me, you are a member of the community.
You're a very passionate member of the community.
You are a big advocate for making
(02:43):
sure there's awareness and education and understanding
and all of those sorts.
And you've been doing some really cool work around it.
So I do want to dig into that it'd
be really interesting to just hear some of those
contrasting experiences, which I know is probably quite difficult
because you were so young when you left Slovakia.
But I'd be really interested to hear your perception on
(03:05):
how different your life could have been had you not
come to London and been embraced into the community here.
Sometimes I do wonder what my life would have been
and in a small community, and especially in Slovakia, can
be very conservative and I would have moved out from
(03:26):
the village, I suppose, because even though the issues around
or education around lgbt community was just non existent when
I was growing up, so there was no one really
to learn from, get some insights on, you know, know,
what is it to be like to be a gay
man or part of their community.
(03:47):
So I would have potentially moved out and maybe come to
a larger city, but I'm very glad that I ended up
in London because of the opportunities we have here, just to
meet other members of the community as well.
And I suppose, again, thinking back to my life
in Slovakia, if you will have any listeners that
(04:09):
grew up or lived in small villages, they will
know that everyone knows everyone, everyone talks about everyone.
So that's just one another challenge of it.
And the second would be similar countries like Slovakia, where
on one side you have the religion that you grew
up with, that taught you a certain way how people
(04:31):
should behave and who they should be with, versus once
you start exploring who you really are, you start to
realise, actually, this is who I am, and there is
a whole new, very exciting part of world where you
belong to and is there for you to experience.
(04:53):
So that transition, for me, going from that small
village in Slovakia to London, it didn't happen instantly.
I think many people that went through realisation or
transition will find this familiar, that first you needed
to understand who you really are, come to terms
with it, because just 18 years, 19 years, growing
(05:16):
up in certain way and just hearing one sort
of rules that change doesn't happen overnight.
So it took me few years to accept
who I am before being able to really
immerse myself in the community and learn. Amazing.
Thank you so much.
I'm really interested to hear about your
journey, obviously personally, but also really professionally,
(05:40):
because I know you've done some really
great work for LGBTQ+ advocacy.
So can you tell me a little bit about the
work you've done in your organisation as a volunteer?
Some of the things that you've been involved in and
obviously you do some events for us as well.
So I'm really just interested to
hear a little bit about that.
What's kind of inspired you to get
(06:00):
involved in this work in general. Yes.
And it might sound as a bit of a
cliche, but I suppose there is certain time in
your life and one might be thinking, you know
what, it's time to give back to the community.
Because many members of the community would have.
Not all of them, unfortunately, but some would have
(06:22):
some kind of a support to go through this
phase in their life, if you like.
And not many of us had that.
So I suppose once you are on the
other side, then you have almost like.
I had that feeling, you know what?
I think I am very.
I feel very comfortable in my skin and I
(06:45):
would like to give back to the community, and
one way of being able to give back to
the community, which I found very, very inspiring, and
I really, really enjoy it as my current workplace,
my company is very open to encouraging, actually, employees
to create groups, various groups, employee resource groups.
(07:09):
And when I heard a couple of years ago that
there was this initiative where the diversity and belonging programme
was really kicking off, they, of course, wanted to create
an LGBTQ+, group for employees as well.
And I immediately put my hands up that
(07:29):
I would like to be part of it.
I wanted to not just give back to the
community, but also to learn from the community, because
there is so much I don't know.
And being part of an employee resource group really
make you learn about other members of the group.
And so, for example, we have, as one of
(07:50):
the leaders, is organising lunch and learns and activities
and different meetings where we educate our employees.
I have learned so much about the other members of the
group, and a couple of months ago, we have had a
session on trans rights and that also included medical issues around
(08:11):
being trans, because that's a huge part of it.
And I'll be very honest, I have not
been exposed to that kind of information.
I have not sought any information around these topics
and this really helps me to do that.
And this journey of discovering, exploring
is really helping me to understand
those other members of the community.
(08:33):
So going back to your original question, it's
almost like I view this journey twofold.
One is to give back to the community, and
the second part is focusing on me, my learning,
my understanding, and also being able to.
When I engage more and more with your community, I
(08:54):
can speak to these certain topics because if you want
to be, I suppose, an advocate, you should not necessarily.
You need to know everything
because that's almost impossible.
But being able to talk to those members of
the community and understand what they are going through,
what their struggles are and I have also recently
(09:16):
volunteered to become one of the lgbt charities where
the trainers would go to mostly there would be
healthcare providers or government organisations and educate the staff
on the LGBT+ issues.
And it's often.
Again, it will sound a bit of a cliche,
but through that education, you get to know the
(09:39):
group or the people of that community better because
you will know what their struggles are.
You will know what they are going through.
So that's why the educational is a very important part
of what people like me do, to share that knowledge,
for people to be able to understand that actually part
of the individuals, the lgbt community, are same people.
(10:01):
We have the same struggles in life, same issues like
anyone else, and we're just part of the lgbt community.
And I think if you are able to get
that message across, I think people will find it
much easier to understand that, yes, you are just.
You are just like me.
And when you see that coming through, you then have
(10:24):
little bells ringing in your head, like a happy bell
said, yes, you know, I have helped someone to learn
a little bit more about the community.
That's amazing.
And actually, yeah, you're so right.
So, obviously, you know, people's experiences in the LGBTQ
community are going to differ because of the systematic
(10:45):
and the social challenges that exist in our societies
across different parts of the world.
But on this core level of our human nature and
all of the other things, we are all the same.
So that's a really interesting part.
And when I think when you can connect with the
human in the room, like you say, that's when you
(11:06):
see all those bells going off for people.
And that's when you're like, this is
why I do what I do.
Because now you can see me as a human being and you
can see other people in this community as a human being.
Now, all of a sudden, it's much easier
to have these much more constructive conversations.
So I love that that's something that
you get to see as well.
It's really rewarding, definitely.
(11:28):
Like, this work isn't easy.
It's really tough sometimes.
A because you're having to do a
lot of self reflection on yourself, right?
So you're learning loads now about trans rights,
about bi lives, all of this sort of
stuff intersects, etcetera, all of these other wonderful
things that make us so different.
So you're having to reflect on your own
prejudices and your own biases aligned to those
(11:50):
groups of people, which is hard to do.
But through that, you're learning.
Then how can I articulate this for other people?
How can I then make this so that other people
don't have to find it so difficult to learn?
And how can I connect with these people?
So I love that you've got that base level of
we are all human, we are all the same.
(12:10):
But actually some of these external societal factors
are, meaning that some of our struggles and
some of our challenges are different.
And I think that's a really amazing place to be
when you do this sort of work, especially in the
community as well, because there's so much anti trans rhetoric,
especially when it comes to our governments.
You know, we're about to go for a general
(12:32):
election, the US are about to have an election.
Those sorts of things always throw up loads of
stuff about the community because they're having a bit
of a culture war with each other because they're
trying to win the most votes.
So it's really tough, this work, but those lovely light
bulb moments are exactly why we do it, I think.
(12:53):
Absolutely, 100% agree.
So it sounds like you're getting
lots out of this learning experience.
It sounds like, you know, you're getting just as
much as you're giving, which is an amazing experience.
I think.
I'm really interested to know if the work
that you're doing, the involvement in the initiatives
for the community, has that influenced your own
identity or even your own sense of belonging
(13:16):
within the community, maybe even within work.
Is there any way that that's influenced
any of those things for you?
Absolutely.
I think so.
Going back to that journey when the discovery journey,
who I really am, and essentially then coming out
to the world, if you like, because I was
(13:37):
not necessarily part of the community.
When I came to London, for example, I
felt I definitely missed out a lot.
And by learning and, you know, coming out and
immersing myself in the community, I felt that.
I think the community, I feel that they do really look
(13:59):
after each other and they do stick with each other.
And sometimes I would say maybe it's not helpful, because
then it's very hard to put your foot in your.
In the door, right?
Because you establish those communities
and people know each other.
I find it so amazing, like, how small the
world can be, especially if I'm thinking just.
(14:22):
Just gay world in even a big city like London.
I'm not gonna necessarily go into the
detail, but, you know, there are some
safety concerns that the community has.
So that's why they're very careful, like, who they let
in and who they go out with, where they go.
By just learning about the struggles, you then understand
(14:42):
why, because especially there were you know, if there
are some new news articles or, you know, something
bad happened to the community in the news, which
a couple of months ago, you know, there were
few reports in the news when the, you know,
members of the community were attacked.
So then you understand why it's such a.
Sometimes it can be such a closed community.
(15:03):
And just going through that journey and learning
about this issues, it made me understand why.
And I give you also another example.
I have joined a queer dancing club recently, which
you will know, and one of the house mothers,
as we were going to a social, after having
(15:24):
a dance class, we always go to pub and
socialise, chit chat, talk about our dancing routines.
And this house mother would always make
sure that we are going together.
We never leave anyone behind.
If someone has not left the studio, for example, we always
(15:46):
make sure that we wait for them and we go together.
Before, I would not have thought about why
this person is doing this, but knowing what
the community sometimes is facing, again, helps you
to understand why they behave in certain way.
So I'm not sure if I'm answering your question,
but that learning was essential for me to understand
(16:11):
why the community sometimes behaves the way they are.
Yeah, I mean, listen, it hasn't answered
my question at all, but it.
But it's amazing because you've picked
on something really important there and
I think this is often forgotten.
So when people from the cisgender and heterosexual
community look at the LGBTQ community, often they
(16:36):
see celebrations like pride, they, you know, they
see flamboyant behaviours and things like that and.
And they think, well, this is all really
lovely and really nice, but actually, the reality
is those things are definitely amazing.
And, you know, even just like the use
of the word queer now is really celebrated
where it used to be, be a slur.
So there's all of those things that are great,
(16:57):
but there is this underlying safety concern and you
see it in lots of different things now.
You know, I'm very straight passing, so I can walk
down the street and know that if I get attacked,
it's not going to be anything to do with the
fact that I'm bi or anything like that.
It's literally just going to be because
maybe I'm a woman, maybe that's one
(17:18):
of my safety concerns or whatever else.
Whereas you've always got this underlying feeling,
which, fortunately for you, you've never had
to worry about and you've never really
thought about until you started doing this
learning and really immersing yourself into the
community, which is wonderful for your experience.
But the reality is this is
always this underlying safety concern.
So I think that's something that is really important during
(17:40):
pride month, when people are celebrating and, you know, saying
all these wonderful things, actually consider the damage that's being
done with, you know, the various policies that we're having
to deal with in the government structure, all of the
historical things that have forced us to this point where
we've had to separate ourselves in these groups to be
(18:00):
able to go, hey, I need the same rights as
my heterosexual friend who is having maternity or paternity or
whatever.
You know, there's so many different things,
especially when it comes to employment.
It's the idea that actually,
it's not just a celebration. This is.
Let's learn about the history.
Let's understand how we've got to this point
now and what the future looks like.
(18:21):
And the future is extremely bright and amazing.
But I do think it's really important to
look at both sides of the coin.
And I think a lot of people don't necessarily think
about that when it comes to things like pride.
And this podcast is going out in Pride month, so,
you know, we want to celebrate all of the amazing
things the LGBTQ community contribute to the world, give to
(18:41):
us in our organisations, and all of those wonderful things.
But we can't forget about that other side of it.
Even if, like yourself, people have been
quite fortunate to not have to be
in danger and have those safety concerns.
Personally, we all know somebody that has had that.
And your dance academy is incredible.
I do want to talk about it
really quickly, just because we got to.
(19:04):
A couple of us got to come and see you
perform, and it was just this absolutely beautiful experience because
obviously, we're very proud of you and your experience, but
just being in this huge room, it was in Alexandra
palace, it was in a beautiful theatre, and there were
just hundreds of people there that were 100% safe.
(19:26):
Right.
So not everybody's from the community.
Lots of people in there would have been straight.
Lots of people in there would have been Cisco.
But actually, everybody there was an
ally or from the community.
And it felt like such a warm, safe space
to be in that vicinity with other people that
were just absolutely rooting for everybody on stage.
(19:46):
It was just a really beautiful experience, and I
think that's what happens when people start to become
more knowledgeable and more aware of the things that
have happened before that weren't so great, but also
some of the really good things as well.
So just keeping that balance, I
think, is really, really useful. Yes.
So I'm going to come back to the question. Yes.
(20:06):
Okay, let's try again.
Let's try again, just because
I'm really interested to hear.
So, obviously, I've known you for a long time.
We used to work together,
we collaborate on projects together.
Now, we obviously know each other personally as
well, but I'm really interested about how the
work that you've been doing with the volunteer
company, but also with your.
Within your organisation and your own learning, do you
(20:29):
think that's influenced any aspects of your own identity
or even sense of belonging in the community? Definitely.
And like often in this case also, this is.
It's part of the journey, and I'm still
on the journey and still the very beginning.
I feel I'm on this journey because
there's still so much to learn.
(20:50):
And the more I learn, the more I realise how much
more there is to learn, which is, on one side, scary.
But they say I'm super excited that, oh,
my God, I still don't know about this.
I still don't know why I should research
about this in terms of belonging to.
And I think just reflecting on this,
I think belonging to the community.
(21:10):
I think me personally, whilst I feel that I have,
you know, I'm on a good journey and it's an
exciting journey, and the start of the journey, I feel
I need to do more to reach out to the
other groups within the lgbt community, because just because I'm
(21:33):
a gay man, it doesn't stop me to learn and
be part and experience other members of the community.
So, for example, with a very good friend
of mine, we went to a comedy event.
It was a lesbian comedy event.
(21:53):
And you can say that that was us.
I was like, okay, it's not taboo to say that
we went to a lesbian comedy because it was amazing.
It was so good.
And the thing is, so I.
For me, obviously, we had such a great
time and the acts were very, very good.
(22:14):
But again, just to see and be part of the
lesbian community, which doesn't really happen very often for.
Can I generalise? Maybe.
But how I feel that I think all these
groups can intermingle and there's opportunities for us to
mix a little bit more, if you like.
(22:35):
So being.
Instead of always just going to the gay clubs, going
to a lesbian comedy night, it was such a.
It was such a good fun and.
And that sense of belonging in
that venue with those people.
It was, I think, for me, a little bit
(22:55):
on another level, because you can go to lots
of gay clubs and gay venues and so on.
But this was specifically, obviously, it was
open to anyone, but it was very,
really geared towards the lesbian community.
And just being there, feeling the energy, being
(23:16):
amongst those people was just very amazing.
And I did felt at that point that I
reached out from my gay world, if you like,
to lesbian world, which was very uplifting.
So these experiences of me really pushing myself
to learn about the other communities helped me
(23:37):
to then reach out to those communities.
I love this.
Like, I had no idea that this is how you felt about.
Obviously, we both really enjoyed it.
It was incredible comedy, and considering it
wasn't like a big professional one, the
comedians were just top notch.
They were so, so good. But, yeah, you're right.
(23:57):
There was just such a buzz in the
room and such a feeling of supporting.
And you weren't the only man there.
There were a couple of other men that were there, but
it was actually really nice as a woman, you know, who's
by just to be in that space, but with my friend
who is an ally to it as well.
And I think I know you've done a lot of
learning in this space as well, since you and I
(24:19):
have been talking about these sorts of things, but I
had no idea it had such an impact on you. So I'm.
I'm really happy to hear that because it
was a wonderful experience for me as well.
We have to go back.
We should shout about it because
it's such a good comedy. I agree.
I'm really interested then.
So it.
All of this learning is amazing.
There must have been one thing or something in
(24:39):
particular, whether it was in a project within your.
The work that you're doing in the space, whether
it's a personal, significant thing that happened, but is
there something that's just really kind of clicked for
you and gone, wow, this is really important work?
Definitely.
When it was part of the lgbt group that
(25:03):
I co facilitate Koran in my company with my
other colleagues when we had our first lunch and
learn on the LGBTQ history month.
And I have not really done any research
(25:25):
into, you know, how it all started.
I mean, we stonewall riots, very famous, so I would have
heard of about them, but I never really explored, if you
like, the history of how it all started and once.
So I would advise anyone who is
not necessarily knowledgeable around how the pride
(25:48):
marches or the Pride month celebration started.
Pride protest.
When you have pride protests. Exactly.
So if you have, especially as we're celebrating Pride
month, I would encourage you, if you have 510
minutes on the train, on the tube, just search.
There's lots of articles and learn about
(26:11):
why and how it all started.
So once you dig into the history a little
bit more, you see how life was before.
Now, to your point exactly.
In many parts of the world, pride celebrations, a big,
big party, everyone is having a good time and we
love it, but it wasn't always the same way.
(26:31):
And when you read about how the community was
hiding in underground spaces or hidden spaces just to
be able to be themselves among the, their people
and then you hear how police went to arrest
them, then you realise, oh, okay, it's not just
(26:53):
about the whole big party, it's still, you have
that element, that protest element, how it all started.
And we must not forget about that.
And I think when I started learning more about
the history, it really made me almost like not
almost definitely be thankful for all those people that
(27:15):
actually started it because it's not easy, you know,
imagine being a lesbian, gay, trans person in, in
New York, for example, all those years back and
your family doesn't know about you.
You're hiding from your family,
hiding from your friends.
And then now suddenly you are with your people and
(27:36):
police comes in and they arrest you for what? Right. So.
And then they took that courage
to actually say no to this.
I'm not going to put up this with this
anymore and I'm going to go out to the
streets and I'm going to go and protest.
And thanks to them, many of, we have many
of the rights we have thanks to them.
(27:58):
So I think that was one
realisation where it really clicked.
If you like, like you said in my head is, you
know, what you want to be part of spreading the news,
spreading the love and, you know, be part of the movement.
(28:20):
Maybe that's not the right word.
You know, think about all those people that
have started it all those years ago and
you are almost like continuing that word.
And actually with one of our
very good friends, you will know.
So we are both from Slovakia and what we
(28:42):
said that this year we will go together to
Bratislava pride to support the local community.
And I'm not familiar the scene in Slovakia, but
I know there are still loads to do for
the community to be accepted in Slovakia.
So we are both prepared, having experienced pride in the
(29:06):
UK, for example, where we go out, have a good
time, celebrate, dance, just have an amazing time.
We know that that will not necessarily be replicated
in Bratislava where it's still a proper protest.
And that's.
I think this will be an interesting experience
(29:26):
for both of us experiencing that other part
of celebrating pride, which is so important. Yeah.
And the counter protests that go with
that as well, which you don't really
see in Brighton, in Manchester, in London.
All of the ones, the New York, the Copenhagen, like all of
the ones that we've been to or about to go to.
(29:48):
Then actually you don't see the counter
protests, and that's going to be, I
think, quite eye opening for you there.
So I think that there's a couple of things that
you've just said that were really interesting because I think
something you said earlier that has just come back to
me where you were talking about how great it is
that the community is so close knit.
But sometimes that can be quite a challenge because
(30:09):
sometimes it can be a little bit clicky.
And it's really interesting because there's been
a lot more in the news lately
about algae baby, the group that's LGB.
So they're excluding, purposefully excluding trans.
So there's a whole different aspect around how people
are separating themselves in the group as well.
So I love that you're noticing groups coming together and
(30:31):
you're learning about the different parts of the LGBTQ acronym,
because I think that's more of what we need to
do rather than this separating and pulling apart.
And then obviously also we need to
think about the fact that Jericho in
the UK, we're quite progressive in our.
I'm going to use the word acceptance.
(30:52):
I don't like that really, when I'm talking about this type
of work, but I think it makes sense in this bit.
We are much more progressive in our
acceptance of people from the LGBTQ community.
I would probably say LGB more likely, but actually, that's
not the case in a lot of other countries.
Plus, we are a hell of a long way to go
in the UK to get everything up to equality, but that's
(31:17):
something that you're going to experience, I think when you go
to Bratislava and it's a city that you know really well,
you know, I know you fly to there when you go
see your family, and so does the person you're talking about.
But it's probably going to have a very
different feeling and a very different meaning for
you when you go and experience that.
I'm sure there'll be some really wonderful things with
it as well, but it's really good that you're
putting yourself in those uncomfortable positions to help yourself
(31:40):
grow and learn a lot more.
I think we do our best learning when
we're uncomfortable, hence why we do this work
in the first place, I think to really
help people safely get into uncomfortable spaces.
I'm really interested to know as someone that's very
personally, deeply committed to the work that you do,
what piece of advice or couple of pieces of
(32:01):
advice would you give to individuals that maybe are
struggling to figure out how they are part of
the community or how they can even do this
sort of work in general within their own organisations?
I think definitely small chunks, taking everything
in small chunks, I guess, is a
(32:23):
very universal rule with anything you do.
So definitely the learning part is crucial
to be able to understand what other
members going through, what their challenges are.
The other part then will be also it's okay to
(32:44):
make mistakes as well as you get along the journey
of discovering or wanting to be more involved.
And I give you an example where I'm glad how
we are bracing using pronouns more and more in, at
work, in our friends, amongst our friends as well.
(33:06):
Few times I made a mistake when
I did not use the correct pronouns.
I always used to feel so bad about myself,
oh my God, I used the wrong pronouns.
But then we had a chat about in general, about using
pronouns with my co leaders that we run this group.
(33:30):
And actually what we discussed was that, you know what,
it doesn't matter if you make a mistake, if you
misgender someone or you don't use the correct pronouns.
As long as you can reflect and just understand that,
you know, sometimes you make that mistake and you know,
(33:50):
there is way around it, you can just quickly just
pause and say to that person, oh, I'm good, I'm
so sorry, I used the wrong pronoun and there's nothing
wrong with that because I think most of the people,
they will appreciate you trying to use the correct pronouns.
And if you make a mistake, that's fine, as
long as you are not doing it deliberately.
So I think that's another, another part, or I
(34:13):
guess another advice I might be able to give
out is that don't be too harsh with yourself.
As you learn about, for example, the pronouns, it's fine
to make mistakes as long as you want to learn.
And next time use the correct pronouns.
As long as you know that's in your head, that's fine.
So definitely don't beat up yourself too harshly because like
(34:37):
going back to what you said about this social constructs
and the society, it was drilled into our heads that,
you know, he needs to use he or she.
So it's very difficult to then differently or think
the other way because for, well, I don't know,
don't want to give away my age, but if
(35:00):
it was drilled into your head for almost 40
years, then it's very hard to your brain then
accept or learn about something new and different. Yeah.
And I think that's a really important message.
It's definitely a message that we work really hard
(35:21):
to get out in our training sessions, in coaching
sessions, in conversations that we're having with people.
It's okay to get it wrong.
It's totally okay to get it wrong.
Like you say, don't beat yourself up.
I think that there's intention is fine
as long as we also consider impact.
So I've definitely done it.
I've got trans friends that I've misgendered use
(35:42):
their previous name sometimes, you know, their dead
name, which is how it's referred to all
of those sorts of things.
And it's okay because I didn't mean to do
it, and I'm working to correct it, and I
think that's all that you can do.
But like you said, it's been drummed into us for so
long that we have to refer to people in a certain
way that, yeah, it takes a while to undo that stuff.
(36:04):
So being kind to yourself while you're learning, I
also would just add a quick one, which is
just a bit of a caveat that I think
people could give when they're talking to people.
You know, if it's me and I'm talking to
someone from a different identity to me, I'm gonna
be like, look, I'm learning more about the gay
(36:24):
community, for example, the gay men community.
And while I'm learning, can you just,
like, call me out on things?
Like, if I say something wrong, just tell me,
like, I'm not gonna be precious about it.
I just need to learn.
And I think if you can let go of
the ego a little bit with this stuff, it
can be really helpful in creating those really safe
spaces and opening up those conversations.
(36:44):
And then you get to learn so much,
and you get to immerse yourself in so
many different parts of life in the world.
Like, you got to go to a lesbian comedy show.
You never would have done that
in a million years before.
But because you're learning and growing and all of those
sorts of things, and I've got to experience so much
through you and the way that you live and all
of the wonderful experiences that you've had as well.
(37:05):
So I think that's kind of a
nice way to wrap up the session.
Just the idea that, like you said, be patient with
yourself, be kind to yourself while you're learning, but also
just know that you will get it wrong. It's totally.
Okay.
Just keep learning, keep striving, keep having
good intentions, and then your impact hopefully
matches up at some point and you
start to do things really, really well.
(37:25):
Sadly, that's all the time we've got together today.
I know we'll probably chat for hours
later anyway, but I'm sure we could. Yes.
I want to thank you so much for being here,
because I know the work that you do is really
important to you, and I know that talking about this
stuff is really helpful for people to hear, to know
that it's okay that they don't know all the answers.
(37:46):
You know, you're from the
community, I'm from the community.
There's so many people around us from the community.
We don't know everything.
There's no possible way, like you said,
that you can know absolutely everything.
So it's really, really important that
you're able to get heard.
And I'm really glad that we
were able to this conversation today.
No, thank you for having me. It was.
(38:07):
It was a pleasure. Lovely. Thanks, Mario.
Speak to you soon.
Speak to you soon. Bye.
Of course, I'm going to be biassed and
say I absolutely loved recording that podcast.
But just fantastic insights from Mario.
(38:27):
Definitely some new information from me that I didn't
know about him, but also about the learning and
the journey that people go on, even if they
are in the LGBTQ community as well.
Just some brilliant insights there.
I think that idea of just being really kind to
yourself and acknowledging that you're learning is a really, really
good way to help people to understand how to support
(38:48):
you on your learning, but also how you can encourage
people to do the same as well.
Just fantastic.
Absolutely love spending that time with Mario there.
We hope you enjoyed it just as much as we did.
We hope you got something useful out of it,
whether it's for your employer, whether it's for yourself,
whether it's for a friend, and we can't wait
to see you on the next one.
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