July 2, 2025 • 57 mins
We conclude the devilish and mysterious story surrounding the disappearance of a group of women involved in a small cult run by new age author Carlos Castaneda.
Not many are aware that one of the most successful New Age authors, Carlos Castaneda, lead a cult. The women that made up the inner circle of his cult were called “the witches” and five of them disappeared after Castaneda’s death in 1998. In an all too familiar trope, Castaneda’s mythology was built on lies, narcissism, hypocrisy, and abuse, yet the witches remain missing. Did they commit mass suicide, or are they still in control of the cult’s workshops (Tensegrity) and publishing empire?
With Special Guest Mariah Klapatch!
Theme Music by Matt Glass https://www.glassbrain.com/Instagram: @astudyofstrange Support the Show! astudyofstrange.substack.com/ Website: www.astudyofstrange.com Hosted by Michael May Email stories, comments, or ideas to astudyofstrange@gmail.com! ©2025 Convergent Content, LLC LINKShttps://www.goodreads.com/author/show/8088.Carlos_Castaneda
https://www.amazon.com/stores/author/B000APXVFG
https://www.altaonline.com/dispatches/a60923618/carlos-castaneda-cult-geoffrey-gray/
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Warning.
This episode contains detailsthat some listeners
may find disturbing.
Continuing the dramatic and mysterious
saga of tensegrity,the cult of Carlos Castaneda.
Tonight, we finish the tale and discussthe myriad of theories
behind the missing witches.
(00:22):
This is a study of strange.
(00:42):
Welcome back to the show.
I am your host, Michael Michael,who leads you into strange mysteries
and all sorts of stuff.I never know what to say, Mariah.
But every time I start the show, I'm like,I'm going to say something cool.
And then I, I never do,but that's part of my charm, I guess.
exactly.
So if you listen to part, definitely golisten to part one of this series.
(01:02):
So you're caught up in it.I'm not going to do a big recap.
Yes, yes.
You're not going to get it all.So go back to part one of this series.
And joining me, helping metell this crazy story of Carlos Castaneda
and Tensegrity and the missing witchesand everything else, is Mariah clap back,
who I've now known for 25
(01:22):
years, 24 years, something like that.
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah,
yeah.
Well, yeah.
Makes me feel old, butalso kind of excited all at the same time.
So Mariah and I have both been studying
(01:43):
this story of Carlos Castanedabecause it is a huge story.
So as I said in part one,
if there's anything we did not coveror you want to correct,
pleaseemail me a study of strange at gmail.com.
I've.
I've never really donea follow up to an episode before.
I have had some wherepeople reach out to correct something or,
you know,want to make a note of something,
but this is the actual storywhere I feel like
(02:04):
I definitely would do a follow upif I learned something else.
So is please reach out.
Or if you're one of the missing witchesand you're still alive,
I would love to talk to you.
Please message me.
Yes. Oh, 100%
100% All right, so I want to really recap.
(02:27):
but I am going to start againwith how I ended the previous episode,
which is in the spring of 1973.
Carlos Castaneda purchased twoadjoining Spanish style bungalows
at 1672 Pandora Avenue in Westwood,
right near the UCLA campus.
There.
It's a very pretty street.
I've seen videos and pictures.
I've been on Google Maps to be there.
(02:49):
I've not driven by iteven though I live in L.A.
But it's a very pretty street,a pretty place.
It still exists.
And but it was, you know, it has hedges.
It's a little private.You can be private in there.
And along with him was threehandpicked graduates student proteges
Mary Simcoe,Regina Sol and Kathleen Pullman.
(03:11):
Yes. Those are the correct three.
Right where I got thatright off the top of your head.
Yeah.
Regina.
Yes. Okay, great.
So this is when Castaneda startedcalling them the witches.
And their new identities were sealedwhen Simcoe rechristened herself
(03:34):
Tatia or Taisha Abeler.
So becomes Florinda or Growl,and Pullman becomes Carol Tiggs
and Castaneda in cities that everyonebecause his his little community
here does grow and it becomes waymore than just those five missing women.
There are hundreds of people thatfollow him that are involved with this,
(03:55):
and everyone, especially his inner,I would say, his inner followers
specifically, who stay at this compound,who stay at the houses
in this like dormitory type setup.
A lot of themget identical bleached blond haircuts
and they live, quoteunquote, invisible lives.
That'swhy a lot of them don't have pictures,
because they refuse to have picturestaken or shared.
(04:18):
And from the outside,the house looked very ordinary.
But, inside it was not.
Castaneda claims that he was teachingeverybody about the lessons
he's learned from Don Juan,the very fake shaman
from, from the from the sort of Mexicoand southwestern United States.
(04:38):
Did you read?
Very fake.
Like a lot of cults,
he's doing the very typical thingof, like, erasing personal history.
They're not allowed to talk to families.
They're changing their names.
They're creating this new belief system.
And if anybody doesn't do it fully,then he loses some control.
(04:59):
That's the way I sort of put that.
And why cults can be successful.
He does preach that there's no drugs,no caffeine, strict low fat diets.
He had infused baths and allsorts of stuff, and it also taught no sex.
However.
Go for it, Mariah.
(05:40):
Yes. So as much as abstinence,
what's preachedthat doesn't include these sex rituals.
And I kind of readall sorts of different stuff.
So I know I don't have anythingsuper specific,
but definitely having sex with Carloswas part of joining
and being part of the groupand having this ritualistic thing.
What did you read about this?
(06:35):
So, yeah.
So don't worry about it.Because it's not human.
There's magical energy exchange here.
That's what it's about.
One of the things that was weird to meabout the sex stuff, though,
(07:16):
Come on.
You got to think. Yeah, yeah.It's like you're running a cult.
Yeah, like.
Come on, have some fun with this.
He is.
He is by the way, I think he's in his 50swhen this is all starting to go down.
And most of these womenare much younger than him, too. So,
I'd just like to.
I'd like to point that out.
Now, This is going to sound like I'mjumping to.
(07:37):
I guess I am going to jump time,but just because I think it makes sense
for this story here.
in the 90s, and we can go backif I'm missing something here.
But in the 90s, I think that'swhen he incorporates Clear Green,
his company to be in charge of allthe publishing rights and for the books.
And a lot of the witches are writingbooks,
like you've even talkedabout some of them in the last one.
(07:58):
And they're all part of Clear Greenand also part of Clear Green is this thing
that they all developed called tensegritythat we've mentioned a lot, which is this
aerobic shamanic movement system,and they start teaching it.
So you have to pay to learn it.
They go around the worldwith people overseas that are like
teaching this and learning about it,and it becomes this big movement.
(08:20):
And there are instructional tapesteaching people to do it.
You can find someof the videos on YouTube and.
Got it, got it.
So howdid people get pulled inside of this cult?
I think that's a big question.I definitely even have that question.
(08:42):
The former member who wrote about it,what is her name again?
Amy. Well, I think it's Amy Wallacethat mentions that the witches, quote
unquote, would go to lecturesand things at college campuses
and they're they'd scan the audiencefor women who they wanted women
who are smartbecause all these women are smart.
A lot of them are,you know, there's doctors and whatever.
(09:02):
They're not smart, but they look forbeautiful women that were also vulnerable.
And then they'd go up to themand they'd essentially,
you know, try to convince them to, hey,come over,
hang out, like, learn about this,see if you like it.
And that's the way they startedrecruiting more and more members.
And again,just because of the New Age movement,
people reading the booksunaware of its validity or lack thereof,
(09:24):
and people
going to these tensegrity things, unawareof what it's actually connected to.
And, you know, that's that's another waythat people start to get into it.
But it is very capitalistic, like they aremaking money on all these things.
(09:50):
Exactly.
Yes. Yes.
(10:37):
that's a really good pointyou're making, too,
about how the call itselfis this small conglomerate.
And because I think only about a halfdozen people actually lived at the house
by the time I like the mid to late90s. And.
Yeah,but there are quote unquote followers
of the beliefsand the books and tensegrity going on.
And I do think that's whythey kind of lasted
(10:58):
for as long as they did,because there is there's a safety net.
And also Carlos himself was reclusive,
like he wasn't necessarily outthere as the face of this.
He was a little bitmore mysterious himself,
and I think that protected himstill to this day,
because not many people knowabout the cult of this.
That that definitely doesprotect him a bit.
I do want to talk about tensegritya bit more,
(11:19):
because it is a confusing thingto wrap your head around,
and I'm going to read a quote fromone of the articles that came across here
that says tensegrity is a name givento the modern practice of the warrior
travelers path with heart that DonJuan Matus taught his four students
Carlos Castaneda, Florinda Downer,growl, Tasha Avila, and Carol Tiggs.
(11:40):
The word tensegrity was coinedby an architect, scientist,
engineer and global thinker and dreamerwho Carlos admired our Buckminster Fuller
Fuller described tensegrityas a process of attentional integrity,
the inherent interdependence of structuressuch as cells, bodies, and solar system
systems, which are held togetherby a continuous web of tension.
(12:03):
And yeah, did you can you color for usnot to put you on the spot?
Maria, you look scared.
Is there I don't know the best wayto describe
the actual, like, movements and what
it is like.
Tai chi? Yeah.
Yeah.
(12:41):
Yeah.
It definitely is.
It's a little intimidatingbecause of that energy of it.
Is there a wayto describe what you're like?
What is it supposed to be doing to you?
(13:01):
What is the sort of shamanic influence
on your life?
Yeah, I've read it.
Yes. Yeah.
(14:12):
Yeah.
Yeah.
You're right.
And that's actually a very commonsort of trope about cults itself
is they try to create things that areconfusing unless you're more involved.
That's all the thingsyou need to learn more about this.
You got to like come on, come on in,come on in.
You learn more.You'll learn the secrets of it.
(14:33):
It's like L Ron Hubbard.
We create words and languageand all sorts of stuff in that.
That's part of part of that.
maybe it's time to go back tothe missing, which is Yeah.
I know you're talking like I am.
I can't I can't say anything. Yeah.
Imaging which.
(15:00):
to bring into the missing,
Yes. Yes.
(16:00):
Yeah.
(16:48):
there is something to that.
I hadn't really thoughtabout the way that they all had to look.
The same.
Tall, blond, short hair,almost boyish, too,
which is very interesting,because it's not just the short hair.
It's almost like the style of the shorthair is more masculine and feminine.
There is something to that.
(17:13):
Yeah, yeah.
Like how much her influence into it and.
Yeah.
who's smart.
it might be worthwhilethen, just to repeat who the witches are.
We don't have to do a big thing.
But just even if you've been listeningto all of this back to back,
(17:36):
the names can get confusing.
So we have.
If I can find my little list here.
Doop doop.
There's Amelia marquez, aka Talia Bay,
Patricia Parton, aka Nora Alexander,
Regina Margaret Saul, aka Florinda
Donner, ground doctor Marianne Simcoe,
(17:59):
aka Tasia Abela,
Deanna Alvarezaka Kylie Lundell and Amelia marquez.
Oh, I already said Taliban.
So those are the the inner circle,the quote unquote witches of the story.
Patricia Parton was found deadin Death Valley.
The other four are yet to,there's no conclusion
(18:20):
to their stories as of right now.
And what happened to them?
And we're going to get into
why they actually disappearedin just a second.
So when we go back to the beginningof these misses, we're missing
missing witches.
Why is it so hard to stay?
She's so the missing witches.
(18:43):
Missing witches?
If you say it three times, though,then they show up.
I think that's the way to solve this.
So all of this starts to happen
right before Carlos
Castaneda dies in 1998.
His will changes.
And what's interesting about this is hepreaches that like life can continue.
(19:06):
He's part magical and that he won't die.
He has magic spermand all these kind of sayings.
But in reality,he was really sick in the last
handful of years of his life,he was not doing well.
Nothing was actually helping himstay healthy.
And he passes away. In 1988.
When did he pass away? Over 98.
Excuse me, excuse me, 1998.
(19:27):
What did he passed away of?
Do you remember?
That's right.
Yeah.
That's right.
So he dies.
His will has just been changed.
And about $100,000, I believe,is left to the five witches each.
They each get cash,$100,000, plus seemingly
(19:48):
royalties from the books,tensegrity, etc., etc.
of all the businesses going on.
And the death of Carlos was
not publicly announced for monthsthey kept it secret
and the in the.
According to the Alta Journalwho who did a big research.
They have a couple of differentreally in-depth articles which are great.
(20:11):
There's actually a P.I.
that was hired, and part of this wholemystery of these people that went and,
it was the first timeI had come across this theory
when the Pi said in this article,which is follow the money,
if you want to find the missing,which is follow the money,
because most people assume thatthey committed suicide because there is
(20:31):
there have been people that have mentionedthat Carlos talked about mass suicide.
If he dies, or everybody should go backto that very culty saying of like, hey,
if I'm going like this, let's all go outtogether kind of thing. And.
He had.
Absolutely.
And even I believe it's,
(20:52):
the, the, the witch that is still aroundthat was found.
But she didn't.She wasn't one of the missing ones.
I forget
polar Carol Higgs Pullman.
That's what I'm thinking of.
So Carol takes Cassie Pullmantold somebody that they had purchased
guns either right before he diedor right after he died.
And no one has found those guns,so that could have been part of a mass
(21:14):
suicide situation.
No, it can't.
Yeah, I it's it cannot be understated.
(21:36):
I that is the best phrase ofthe whole thing because that is my theory.
So we might as well just diveinto theories and talk about all of this.
yeah, I talkedI mentioned the committed suicide aspect
because people have talked about that.
Even in 2002, a Taos, New Mexicowoman, Janice Emery,
who had been a follower of Castaneda,she did commit suicide.
She jumped to her deathover the Rio Grande, I believe
(22:00):
in, according to some peoplethat were close to her,
One of Emery's friendshad told the newspaper, local newspaper,
that Emily Emery had talkedabout wanting to be with Castaneda's
people before she committed suicide.
So that's just that'sjust one little piece of of evidence.
But it is it's not direct evidenceby any means.
(22:22):
It's just sort of hearsay.
But, a lot of people do believethat they committed
suicide somewhere and went, I do not,I do not either.
So what do you think?
Do you want to talkabout your your thoughts?
I'm read it.
Yeah. Please.
Please. Yes.
(23:44):
Absolutely.
Yeah.
And just to clarify real quick,when you mentioned the mineshaft,
that's because Patricia Parton,her body being found in Death Valley,
there are people that suspectedsome of the close by mines could be
where the others wentin, committed suicide.
(24:04):
So that's where that that little theory.
Yeah.
Yeah. Of course it's amazing. Yeah.
Because you get to go down thereand you get to like, search around
like Indiana Jones.
It's, you know, there's there's fun to it.
(24:42):
She's her own case.
Yeah, yeah.
(25:32):
Yeah.
(26:15):
Yeah.
(26:43):
Yeah.
Yeah. Of course.
Yeah.
(28:20):
Yeah.
And so you mentioned one of my favoriteaspects of the details of this.
When you theorize about, hey,did they go commit suicide
or did they just run away,or did they fight each other?
So the the whole ideaabout the value of the estate,
since they were being left,portions of the estate,
they claimed that it was worth$1 million in 1998.
(28:43):
There's no way it was just worth$1 million or thereabouts.
I forget the exact figure, but somewherearound a million is what they were saying.
It's his estate is wortha lot more than that.
So they had strategized and figure outa way to lower the value of it.
I think for a number of reasons.
One of them is probably taxes.
But I'm sure there'ssome other reasons in there as well,
and that definitely feeds into it.They didn't commit suicide.
(29:05):
They were planning this.
And DeAnn Alva's, aka
what's her what's her tensegrity name?
She, her sister, claimed that there's
no way she would leave $100,000, the cashthat she was being left right away.
There's just no wayshe would ever have done that.
And it's one of the fun things about cultsis the hypocrisy.
(29:26):
And Carlos was teaching his followers,you know, don't don't
claiming your life around nice thingsgive me money, don't spend money.
The money should be going toyour spiritual awakening
and all this kind of stuff.
But he would turn around
and he and the witches would go spendthat money on fancy clothes.
Even though they all worelike very simple things,
they would buy the most expensive versionsof those things.
(29:46):
And yeah, like yousaid, bought property, had all this stuff.
So there is a there is a monetary factorinto the way that they operated
that I definitely think says thatthey just left South America most likely.
And they're living off of royaltiesand things and the money they got.
And I'll also add the the journalistwho did a huge dive into this
(30:09):
for the AltaJournal. He's been talking to the estate.
He's trying to
he's trying to literally follow the moneyto find out where they are.
They still getting royalties.Are they still part of it? Are they live?
Where are they?
And it's much more complicatedthan it would seem.
I thought you could easilyjust look that stuff up.
But he completely ran on to roadblocksevery time he did that.
And he would run into lawyers and otherpeople that, like, run the estate.
(30:31):
And you can't get the specific informationabout who does control Clear Green.
The company todayand who's making money off of it.
So it could be them. It could be them.
(30:53):
Too. Yes.
Me too. Me.
(31:17):
Yeah.
Yeah.
(31:44):
Yeah, yeah.
We'll find it.
(32:32):
That's a good point.
That's a really good point.
That is a very, very good point.
Yeah.
So now we've got to shift to the otherside of this, which is the Patricia part.
Who is thethe lady that went out into Death
Valley driving a Ford Escortinstead of a inappropriate off road
(32:53):
vehicle and being found years afterher car was found abandoned.
I will point out the the Ranger
that found the car in one of the articlesI was reading.
He was talking to a journalist.
He pulled up those photosagain of the car,
and he foundwhat he thought was a bullet hole.
I think that's very intriguing.It's great.
(33:14):
In an article, it'sgreat to say on a podcast
without seeing the photos directly.
And I haven't been able to.
I don't know if that is a bullet hole.
He didn't think it was a bullet holewhen he found the car.
So part of methinks it could have been something else
on the car that just nowlooking back is like, wait,
maybe that is a bullet holeand it's just an intriguing thing.
However, maybe there was a
bullet hole because we have to askwhat Patricia was doing out in the desert,
(33:37):
why she left the car,how did she die out there?
And again, thethe cause of death was undetermined.
So we don't know if she just got lostand died of starvation and heat stroke
or someone killed her.We don't know any of that.
And that's.
That opens up a whole new can of worms,because there's so many theories, there's
so much theorizing that we can dobecause we know so little.
(33:59):
But the intriguing thing to me iswhy was she separate from the other women?
Why did she go to the desert?
I have heard a little bit about.
She had talked to Carlos about one daygoing into death Valley to do something.
I can't remember the specifics,so maybe that was it.
And she got lost.
Or did the women send her therebecause she was a bit of an outcast?
(34:20):
And did they trick or something like that?
Yeah. Give me your thoughts.
(35:36):
Yeah.
Yeah, absolutely.
Do you think that they had anythingto do with her dying?
Or did you think they were just like,oh, she'll spend days out there and we'll
we'll get the head start to leave townor something like that.
(36:39):
Yeah.
(37:32):
Yeah.
I could too, and I've been in Death Valleyon a few different film projects.
And, my gosh, it is, it is.
It's a ruthless environment.
And where her car was found.
That's one of the thingsthat I really want to get across.
It is not even easy to driveto where her car was
(37:54):
like that, in and of itself is weird.
It's strange behavior.
It's hard to do.
So it does show that she wasshe's trying something.
She's really putting all her effort intogoing wherever she was planning to go.
Yeah.
Yeah, that's.
(38:20):
Right, right.
Yeah.
Yeah, possibly.
I mean, I think so,especially in that area.
I think so, but it is, it's definitelystill a mystery.
And that one, I don't think we will.
I think one day we will learn moreabout some of the other missing,
missing witches.
But I think her story is always going
to be more mysteriousbecause I don't think there's a way
to find out what really happened to her.
(38:48):
Interesting.
(39:26):
No. Yeah.
Yeah.
(39:55):
Yeah.
So remind me who Bruce Wagner is.
Okay, that's what I thought.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, great.
There also is another gentlemanwhose name I am forgetting,
and I apologizebecause you're still alive,
and you may even listen to this,
but it was a guy that was beinggroomed to kind of take over.
(40:16):
Yeah, yeah.
And he'sgot some interesting stories out there.
I don't remember all the details.
Marisa gets a.
As is.
Yeah.
(40:37):
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
(41:22):
Yeah.
Yeah.
You'd be bad for sure.
Well, yeah. So that.
I mean, that kind of covers
everything,I think in terms of the series.
Please.
(42:07):
Yeah, yeah.
(42:28):
Yeah.
(44:07):
Yeah.
(44:46):
Yeah, I would think so.
I mean,that would be my interpretation of that.
And if you look at justthe idea that tensegrity still exists,
you can sign up, you can take classes,you can get certified
clear. Green is still running.
All of this is sort of the parentcompany of it all.
And someone's going to be doing that.
And it's not just a lawyer.
(45:06):
It had to be somebodythat he handed things off to.
And the closest thingwe have to that, the most evidence
we have points to the missing,which is that they're behind everything.
(45:31):
Oh, yeah.
Please.
Yeah.
(45:56):
Yeah. Oh.
Yeah.
(46:23):
Yeah.
Yeah.
And that's again
kind of goes to the benefit of the quoteunquote, cult
keeping things so secret
(46:44):
in teaching everybody to change your name,live these invisible lives.
So it makes it really hard to research.
Okay, listeners, you've been hearing uscall all these women various names tonight
because they had various names.They kept changing.
And that makes it hard
to trace people and find peopleand find out what's going on.
Like, it just adds to thethe Pyramid of Mysteries.
(47:31):
Yeah, yeah.
(48:04):
For sure.
(48:28):
Absolutely, absolutely.
I will also point outpeople have gone to the house
to, like, knock on the doorand want to see it.
People live there don't end there.
They're unrelated to tensegrity or CarlosCastaneda's new owners, so don't bother
him, please.
I don't want people going there and beinglike, I heard you on a study of stranger.
I heard about this place. I see it.
(49:01):
Yeah.
It's like the people that ownThe Goonies house
are now like, they've done some thingspublicly where people can come see it.
They've renovated itto look like the 1980s again.
They're they're they're going for it.
I like that, I appreciate that.
Well, great.I think we need to wrap it up.
We've covered a lot.
Again, it's a massive story that we'veonly it's only the tip of the iceberg.
(49:25):
But I think we've sharedthe important parts of it.
The important theories.
Unless there's anything I'm missing,Mariah.
Yeah.
Please.
Oh, yes.
I wanted to hear.
Start with the depressing one.
(49:45):
I would assume.
(50:32):
Yeah.
So that's from Patricia.
Partner at that?
Yeah, yeah,
yeah,
yeah.
(50:56):
Wow. But like, just in a nutshell, it was
Very, very dark.
Very.
Yes. So I
(51:24):
I think I've read that, too, actually.
Yeah, yeah.
It's pretty nice.
Pretty nice.
(52:06):
Yeah, absolutely.
And I've been thinking about thata lot over the last week, actually.
And I also will say this too, is slightly,
slightly taking a turn from there,but it made me think of it is
people do get positive thingsfrom these books, supposedly.
And tensegrity.
Tensegrity is like Taichi, I love Taichi,I think it's really healthy and important
(52:27):
and people get things from the booksand I'm kind of like, that's fine.
I just, I just wish it was more honestabout what it was.
I wish Simon and Schusterwould put like fiction or whatever,
and people can still take from itand have it affect their own lives.
However they wish.
That's the way I am, becauseI just like the truth about those things.
But I have no problem with people
reading these booksand getting something from it.
(52:48):
And he is stealing from a lot of things,you know?
So it's it's not like it's just comingcompletely from from nowhere like he is.
He is stealing from thingsthat he probably liked.
You probably like read something was like,yeah, it really speaks to me.
Let me have Don Juan say that,you know, or whatever.
So, so there are some positive thingsin the books, not in not in his cult,
I would say.I think that is a very terrible situation.
(53:11):
And I think that's evil.
Evil.
But, you know, but I
it is interesting that the books can havesome positive impact on people.
So, yeah.
Yeah.
Yes, yes.
(53:42):
Maybe it's.
Yeah.
Yeah it's a good point.
All right.
Any final thoughts outside.
Is that.
(54:45):
And I'll provide links in the show notesto make it even easier.
And tag her on Instagramso you can easily find her.
Please take her up on that.
I'm being very sincere to, Well,thank you so much.
Maria was great doing this with you.
So much fun.
Such a fascinating storythat I am not done reading about.
I know I'm going to be reading moreabout this soon, probably even tonight.
(55:07):
Because it's like a never ending mystery.
And, it's very hard to share this story.
So I think we did a good job, though.
I think we did. All right.
Oh, yeah.
So let me finish on that.
So tensegrity, the quote unquote workout.
I am going to do it.I've been meaning to try it.
I've just been busy and travelingand I travel again next week.
(55:28):
So I'm going to try to do it this weekend.
I will film it and probably put it onInstagram and or at least bits and pieces.
Are you also going to do it?
Yeah.
Yeah.
No. And I, I do
not own many clothesso I don't have a lot of options.
But it may just be a black t shirtin sweats or something,
(55:51):
because I just don't have any.Anything else?
What about you?
know what I would do with my hair,
because there's no wayto make this look short and blond.
But I will somehow
Oh, man.
That little chain move
so intense, I can'tI can't wait to try it.
(56:12):
But. Yeah. So that'll that'll be fun.
And I'll share that,
and clips or whatever,and, please check and please check it out.
And it'll probably encourage peopleto listen to the podcast, which is great.
Yeah.
Yes. Please do actually,if you film it and tag us, I don't know,
(56:35):
I'll come up with some kind of gift or,you know, award for anybody that does.
Man, that would be incredible.
Would be incredible.
All right, well, thank
you againfor going on this journey with me.
And I'll talk to you soon.
(56:58):
Thank you for listening
to a study of strange, and a very specialthank you to my old friend Maria
for suggesting this storyand then being willing to do a bunch
of research and studyingand really diving into this amazing tale.
I had so much fun.
And listeners,thank you so much for supporting the show.
It has been a busy yearand a study of strange.
(57:18):
We've done a lot.
The show is growing.
I'm taking my first time offfrom the podcast in a while,
so there's just going to besome less episodes throughout the summer.
But if you want to support the showin other ways, check out our Substack,
which you can find to the support tabon our website.
A study of strange.com.
We have additional content,and there will be a lot of articles
over the next few months coming out,some of them free for non-subscribers.
(57:42):
So check that out. Until next time.
Thank you and good night.
Warning.
This episode contains detailsthat some listeners
may find disturbing.
Continuing the dramatic and mysterious
saga of tensegrity,the cult of Carlos Castaneda.
Tonight, we finish the tale and discussthe myriad of theories
behind the missing witches.
(00:22):
This is a study of strange.
(00:42):
Welcome back to the show.
I am your host, Michael Michael,who leads you into strange mysteries
and all sorts of stuff.I never know what to say, Mariah.
But every time I start the show, I'm like,I'm going to say something cool.
And then I, I never do,but that's part of my charm, I guess.
exactly.
So if you listen to part, definitely golisten to part one of this series.
(01:02):
So you're caught up in it.I'm not going to do a big recap.
Yes, yes.
You're not going to get it all.So go back to part one of this series.
And joining me, helping metell this crazy story of Carlos Castaneda
and Tensegrity and the missing witchesand everything else, is Mariah clap back,
who I've now known for 25
(01:22):
years, 24 years, something like that.
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah,
yeah.
Well, yeah.
Makes me feel old, butalso kind of excited all at the same time.
So Mariah and I have both been studying
(01:43):
this story of Carlos Castanedabecause it is a huge story.
So as I said in part one,
if there's anything we did not coveror you want to correct,
pleaseemail me a study of strange at gmail.com.
I've.
I've never really donea follow up to an episode before.
I have had some wherepeople reach out to correct something or,
you know,want to make a note of something,
but this is the actual storywhere I feel like
(02:04):
I definitely would do a follow upif I learned something else.
So is please reach out.
Or if you're one of the missing witchesand you're still alive,
I would love to talk to you.
Please message me.
Yes. Oh, 100%
100% All right, so I want to really recap.
(02:27):
but I am going to start againwith how I ended the previous episode,
which is in the spring of 1973.
Carlos Castaneda purchased twoadjoining Spanish style bungalows
at 1672 Pandora Avenue in Westwood,
right near the UCLA campus.
There.
It's a very pretty street.
I've seen videos and pictures.
I've been on Google Maps to be there.
(02:49):
I've not driven by iteven though I live in L.A.
But it's a very pretty street,a pretty place.
It still exists.
And but it was, you know, it has hedges.
It's a little private.You can be private in there.
And along with him was threehandpicked graduates student proteges
Mary Simcoe,Regina Sol and Kathleen Pullman.
(03:11):
Yes. Those are the correct three.
Right where I got thatright off the top of your head.
Yeah.
Regina.
Yes. Okay, great.
So this is when Castaneda startedcalling them the witches.
And their new identities were sealedwhen Simcoe rechristened herself
(03:34):
Tatia or Taisha Abeler.
So becomes Florinda or Growl,and Pullman becomes Carol Tiggs
and Castaneda in cities that everyonebecause his his little community
here does grow and it becomes waymore than just those five missing women.
There are hundreds of people thatfollow him that are involved with this,
(03:55):
and everyone, especially his inner,I would say, his inner followers
specifically, who stay at this compound,who stay at the houses
in this like dormitory type setup.
A lot of themget identical bleached blond haircuts
and they live, quoteunquote, invisible lives.
That'swhy a lot of them don't have pictures,
because they refuse to have picturestaken or shared.
(04:18):
And from the outside,the house looked very ordinary.
But, inside it was not.
Castaneda claims that he was teachingeverybody about the lessons
he's learned from Don Juan,the very fake shaman
from, from the from the sort of Mexicoand southwestern United States.
(04:38):
Did you read?
Very fake.
Like a lot of cults,
he's doing the very typical thingof, like, erasing personal history.
They're not allowed to talk to families.
They're changing their names.
They're creating this new belief system.
And if anybody doesn't do it fully,then he loses some control.
(04:59):
That's the way I sort of put that.
And why cults can be successful.
He does preach that there's no drugs,no caffeine, strict low fat diets.
He had infused baths and allsorts of stuff, and it also taught no sex.
However.
Go for it, Mariah.
(05:40):
Yes. So as much as abstinence,
what's preachedthat doesn't include these sex rituals.
And I kind of readall sorts of different stuff.
So I know I don't have anythingsuper specific,
but definitely having sex with Carloswas part of joining
and being part of the groupand having this ritualistic thing.
What did you read about this?
(06:35):
So, yeah.
So don't worry about it.Because it's not human.
There's magical energy exchange here.
That's what it's about.
One of the things that was weird to meabout the sex stuff, though,
(07:16):
Come on.
You got to think. Yeah, yeah.It's like you're running a cult.
Yeah, like.
Come on, have some fun with this.
He is.
He is by the way, I think he's in his 50swhen this is all starting to go down.
And most of these womenare much younger than him, too. So,
I'd just like to.
I'd like to point that out.
Now, This is going to sound like I'mjumping to.
(07:37):
I guess I am going to jump time,but just because I think it makes sense
for this story here.
in the 90s, and we can go backif I'm missing something here.
But in the 90s, I think that'swhen he incorporates Clear Green,
his company to be in charge of allthe publishing rights and for the books.
And a lot of the witches are writingbooks,
like you've even talkedabout some of them in the last one.
(07:58):
And they're all part of Clear Greenand also part of Clear Green is this thing
that they all developed called tensegritythat we've mentioned a lot, which is this
aerobic shamanic movement system,and they start teaching it.
So you have to pay to learn it.
They go around the worldwith people overseas that are like
teaching this and learning about it,and it becomes this big movement.
(08:20):
And there are instructional tapesteaching people to do it.
You can find someof the videos on YouTube and.
Got it, got it.
So howdid people get pulled inside of this cult?
I think that's a big question.I definitely even have that question.
(08:42):
The former member who wrote about it,what is her name again?
Amy. Well, I think it's Amy Wallacethat mentions that the witches, quote
unquote, would go to lecturesand things at college campuses
and they're they'd scan the audiencefor women who they wanted women
who are smartbecause all these women are smart.
A lot of them are,you know, there's doctors and whatever.
(09:02):
They're not smart, but they look forbeautiful women that were also vulnerable.
And then they'd go up to themand they'd essentially,
you know, try to convince them to, hey,come over,
hang out, like, learn about this,see if you like it.
And that's the way they startedrecruiting more and more members.
And again,just because of the New Age movement,
people reading the booksunaware of its validity or lack thereof,
(09:24):
and people
going to these tensegrity things, unawareof what it's actually connected to.
And, you know, that's that's another waythat people start to get into it.
But it is very capitalistic, like they aremaking money on all these things.
(09:50):
Exactly.
Yes. Yes.
(10:37):
that's a really good pointyou're making, too,
about how the call itselfis this small conglomerate.
And because I think only about a halfdozen people actually lived at the house
by the time I like the mid to late90s. And.
Yeah,but there are quote unquote followers
of the beliefsand the books and tensegrity going on.
And I do think that's whythey kind of lasted
(10:58):
for as long as they did,because there is there's a safety net.
And also Carlos himself was reclusive,
like he wasn't necessarily outthere as the face of this.
He was a little bitmore mysterious himself,
and I think that protected himstill to this day,
because not many people knowabout the cult of this.
That that definitely doesprotect him a bit.
I do want to talk about tensegritya bit more,
(11:19):
because it is a confusing thingto wrap your head around,
and I'm going to read a quote fromone of the articles that came across here
that says tensegrity is a name givento the modern practice of the warrior
travelers path with heart that DonJuan Matus taught his four students
Carlos Castaneda, Florinda Downer,growl, Tasha Avila, and Carol Tiggs.
(11:40):
The word tensegrity was coinedby an architect, scientist,
engineer and global thinker and dreamerwho Carlos admired our Buckminster Fuller
Fuller described tensegrityas a process of attentional integrity,
the inherent interdependence of structuressuch as cells, bodies, and solar system
systems, which are held togetherby a continuous web of tension.
(12:03):
And yeah, did you can you color for usnot to put you on the spot?
Maria, you look scared.
Is there I don't know the best wayto describe
the actual, like, movements and what
it is like.
Tai chi? Yeah.
Yeah.
(12:41):
Yeah.
It definitely is.
It's a little intimidatingbecause of that energy of it.
Is there a wayto describe what you're like?
What is it supposed to be doing to you?
(13:01):
What is the sort of shamanic influence
on your life?
Yeah, I've read it.
Yes. Yeah.
(14:12):
Yeah.
Yeah.
You're right.
And that's actually a very commonsort of trope about cults itself
is they try to create things that areconfusing unless you're more involved.
That's all the thingsyou need to learn more about this.
You got to like come on, come on in,come on in.
You learn more.You'll learn the secrets of it.
(14:33):
It's like L Ron Hubbard.
We create words and languageand all sorts of stuff in that.
That's part of part of that.
maybe it's time to go back tothe missing, which is Yeah.
I know you're talking like I am.
I can't I can't say anything. Yeah.
Imaging which.
(15:00):
to bring into the missing,
Yes. Yes.
(16:00):
Yeah.
(16:48):
there is something to that.
I hadn't really thoughtabout the way that they all had to look.
The same.
Tall, blond, short hair,almost boyish, too,
which is very interesting,because it's not just the short hair.
It's almost like the style of the shorthair is more masculine and feminine.
There is something to that.
(17:13):
Yeah, yeah.
Like how much her influence into it and.
Yeah.
who's smart.
it might be worthwhilethen, just to repeat who the witches are.
We don't have to do a big thing.
But just even if you've been listeningto all of this back to back,
(17:36):
the names can get confusing.
So we have.
If I can find my little list here.
Doop doop.
There's Amelia marquez, aka Talia Bay,
Patricia Parton, aka Nora Alexander,
Regina Margaret Saul, aka Florinda
Donner, ground doctor Marianne Simcoe,
(17:59):
aka Tasia Abela,
Deanna Alvarezaka Kylie Lundell and Amelia marquez.
Oh, I already said Taliban.
So those are the the inner circle,the quote unquote witches of the story.
Patricia Parton was found deadin Death Valley.
The other four are yet to,there's no conclusion
(18:20):
to their stories as of right now.
And what happened to them?
And we're going to get into
why they actually disappearedin just a second.
So when we go back to the beginningof these misses, we're missing
missing witches.
Why is it so hard to stay?
She's so the missing witches.
(18:43):
Missing witches?
If you say it three times, though,then they show up.
I think that's the way to solve this.
So all of this starts to happen
right before Carlos
Castaneda dies in 1998.
His will changes.
And what's interesting about this is hepreaches that like life can continue.
(19:06):
He's part magical and that he won't die.
He has magic spermand all these kind of sayings.
But in reality,he was really sick in the last
handful of years of his life,he was not doing well.
Nothing was actually helping himstay healthy.
And he passes away. In 1988.
When did he pass away? Over 98.
Excuse me, excuse me, 1998.
(19:27):
What did he passed away of?
Do you remember?
That's right.
Yeah.
That's right.
So he dies.
His will has just been changed.
And about $100,000, I believe,is left to the five witches each.
They each get cash,$100,000, plus seemingly
(19:48):
royalties from the books,tensegrity, etc., etc.
of all the businesses going on.
And the death of Carlos was
not publicly announced for monthsthey kept it secret
and the in the.
According to the Alta Journalwho who did a big research.
They have a couple of differentreally in-depth articles which are great.
(20:11):
There's actually a P.I.
that was hired, and part of this wholemystery of these people that went and,
it was the first timeI had come across this theory
when the Pi said in this article,which is follow the money,
if you want to find the missing,which is follow the money,
because most people assume thatthey committed suicide because there is
(20:31):
there have been people that have mentionedthat Carlos talked about mass suicide.
If he dies, or everybody should go backto that very culty saying of like, hey,
if I'm going like this, let's all go outtogether kind of thing. And.
He had.
Absolutely.
And even I believe it's,
(20:52):
the, the, the witch that is still aroundthat was found.
But she didn't.She wasn't one of the missing ones.
I forget
polar Carol Higgs Pullman.
That's what I'm thinking of.
So Carol takes Cassie Pullmantold somebody that they had purchased
guns either right before he diedor right after he died.
And no one has found those guns,so that could have been part of a mass
(21:14):
suicide situation.
No, it can't.
Yeah, I it's it cannot be understated.
(21:36):
I that is the best phrase ofthe whole thing because that is my theory.
So we might as well just diveinto theories and talk about all of this.
yeah, I talkedI mentioned the committed suicide aspect
because people have talked about that.
Even in 2002, a Taos, New Mexicowoman, Janice Emery,
who had been a follower of Castaneda,she did commit suicide.
She jumped to her deathover the Rio Grande, I believe
(22:00):
in, according to some peoplethat were close to her,
One of Emery's friendshad told the newspaper, local newspaper,
that Emily Emery had talkedabout wanting to be with Castaneda's
people before she committed suicide.
So that's just that'sjust one little piece of of evidence.
But it is it's not direct evidenceby any means.
(22:22):
It's just sort of hearsay.
But, a lot of people do believethat they committed
suicide somewhere and went, I do not,I do not either.
So what do you think?
Do you want to talkabout your your thoughts?
I'm read it.
Yeah. Please.
Please. Yes.
(23:44):
Absolutely.
Yeah.
And just to clarify real quick,when you mentioned the mineshaft,
that's because Patricia Parton,her body being found in Death Valley,
there are people that suspectedsome of the close by mines could be
where the others wentin, committed suicide.
(24:04):
So that's where that that little theory.
Yeah.
Yeah. Of course it's amazing. Yeah.
Because you get to go down thereand you get to like, search around
like Indiana Jones.
It's, you know, there's there's fun to it.
(24:42):
She's her own case.
Yeah, yeah.
(25:32):
Yeah.
(26:15):
Yeah.
(26:43):
Yeah.
Yeah. Of course.
Yeah.
(28:20):
Yeah.
And so you mentioned one of my favoriteaspects of the details of this.
When you theorize about, hey,did they go commit suicide
or did they just run away,or did they fight each other?
So the the whole ideaabout the value of the estate,
since they were being left,portions of the estate,
they claimed that it was worth$1 million in 1998.
(28:43):
There's no way it was just worth$1 million or thereabouts.
I forget the exact figure, but somewherearound a million is what they were saying.
It's his estate is wortha lot more than that.
So they had strategized and figure outa way to lower the value of it.
I think for a number of reasons.
One of them is probably taxes.
But I'm sure there'ssome other reasons in there as well,
and that definitely feeds into it.They didn't commit suicide.
(29:05):
They were planning this.
And DeAnn Alva's, aka
what's her what's her tensegrity name?
She, her sister, claimed that there's
no way she would leave $100,000, the cashthat she was being left right away.
There's just no wayshe would ever have done that.
And it's one of the fun things about cultsis the hypocrisy.
(29:26):
And Carlos was teaching his followers,you know, don't don't
claiming your life around nice thingsgive me money, don't spend money.
The money should be going toyour spiritual awakening
and all this kind of stuff.
But he would turn around
and he and the witches would go spendthat money on fancy clothes.
Even though they all worelike very simple things,
they would buy the most expensive versionsof those things.
(29:46):
And yeah, like yousaid, bought property, had all this stuff.
So there is a there is a monetary factorinto the way that they operated
that I definitely think says thatthey just left South America most likely.
And they're living off of royaltiesand things and the money they got.
And I'll also add the the journalistwho did a huge dive into this
(30:09):
for the AltaJournal. He's been talking to the estate.
He's trying to
he's trying to literally follow the moneyto find out where they are.
They still getting royalties.Are they still part of it? Are they live?
Where are they?
And it's much more complicatedthan it would seem.
I thought you could easilyjust look that stuff up.
But he completely ran on to roadblocksevery time he did that.
And he would run into lawyers and otherpeople that, like, run the estate.
(30:31):
And you can't get the specific informationabout who does control Clear Green.
The company todayand who's making money off of it.
So it could be them. It could be them.
(30:53):
Too. Yes.
Me too. Me.
(31:17):
Yeah.
Yeah.
(31:44):
Yeah, yeah.
We'll find it.
(32:32):
That's a good point.
That's a really good point.
That is a very, very good point.
Yeah.
So now we've got to shift to the otherside of this, which is the Patricia part.
Who is thethe lady that went out into Death
Valley driving a Ford Escortinstead of a inappropriate off road
(32:53):
vehicle and being found years afterher car was found abandoned.
I will point out the the Ranger
that found the car in one of the articlesI was reading.
He was talking to a journalist.
He pulled up those photosagain of the car,
and he foundwhat he thought was a bullet hole.
I think that's very intriguing.It's great.
(33:14):
In an article, it'sgreat to say on a podcast
without seeing the photos directly.
And I haven't been able to.
I don't know if that is a bullet hole.
He didn't think it was a bullet holewhen he found the car.
So part of methinks it could have been something else
on the car that just nowlooking back is like, wait,
maybe that is a bullet holeand it's just an intriguing thing.
However, maybe there was a
bullet hole because we have to askwhat Patricia was doing out in the desert,
(33:37):
why she left the car,how did she die out there?
And again, thethe cause of death was undetermined.
So we don't know if she just got lostand died of starvation and heat stroke
or someone killed her.We don't know any of that.
And that's.
That opens up a whole new can of worms,because there's so many theories, there's
so much theorizing that we can dobecause we know so little.
(33:59):
But the intriguing thing to me iswhy was she separate from the other women?
Why did she go to the desert?
I have heard a little bit about.
She had talked to Carlos about one daygoing into death Valley to do something.
I can't remember the specifics,so maybe that was it.
And she got lost.
Or did the women send her therebecause she was a bit of an outcast?
(34:20):
And did they trick or something like that?
Yeah. Give me your thoughts.
(35:36):
Yeah.
Yeah, absolutely.
Do you think that they had anythingto do with her dying?
Or did you think they were just like,oh, she'll spend days out there and we'll
we'll get the head start to leave townor something like that.
(36:39):
Yeah.
(37:32):
Yeah.
I could too, and I've been in Death Valleyon a few different film projects.
And, my gosh, it is, it is.
It's a ruthless environment.
And where her car was found.
That's one of the thingsthat I really want to get across.
It is not even easy to driveto where her car was
(37:54):
like that, in and of itself is weird.
It's strange behavior.
It's hard to do.
So it does show that she wasshe's trying something.
She's really putting all her effort intogoing wherever she was planning to go.
Yeah.
Yeah, that's.
(38:20):
Right, right.
Yeah.
Yeah, possibly.
I mean, I think so,especially in that area.
I think so, but it is, it's definitelystill a mystery.
And that one, I don't think we will.
I think one day we will learn moreabout some of the other missing,
missing witches.
But I think her story is always going
to be more mysteriousbecause I don't think there's a way
to find out what really happened to her.
(38:48):
Interesting.
(39:26):
No. Yeah.
Yeah.
(39:55):
Yeah.
So remind me who Bruce Wagner is.
Okay, that's what I thought.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, great.
There also is another gentlemanwhose name I am forgetting,
and I apologizebecause you're still alive,
and you may even listen to this,
but it was a guy that was beinggroomed to kind of take over.
(40:16):
Yeah, yeah.
And he'sgot some interesting stories out there.
I don't remember all the details.
Marisa gets a.
As is.
Yeah.
(40:37):
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
(41:22):
Yeah.
Yeah.
You'd be bad for sure.
Well, yeah. So that.
I mean, that kind of covers
everything,I think in terms of the series.
Please.
(42:07):
Yeah, yeah.
(42:28):
Yeah.
(44:07):
Yeah.
(44:46):
Yeah, I would think so.
I mean,that would be my interpretation of that.
And if you look at justthe idea that tensegrity still exists,
you can sign up, you can take classes,you can get certified
clear. Green is still running.
All of this is sort of the parentcompany of it all.
And someone's going to be doing that.
And it's not just a lawyer.
(45:06):
It had to be somebodythat he handed things off to.
And the closest thingwe have to that, the most evidence
we have points to the missing,which is that they're behind everything.
(45:31):
Oh, yeah.
Please.
Yeah.
(45:56):
Yeah. Oh.
Yeah.
(46:23):
Yeah.
Yeah.
And that's again
kind of goes to the benefit of the quoteunquote, cult
keeping things so secret
(46:44):
in teaching everybody to change your name,live these invisible lives.
So it makes it really hard to research.
Okay, listeners, you've been hearing uscall all these women various names tonight
because they had various names.They kept changing.
And that makes it hard
to trace people and find peopleand find out what's going on.
Like, it just adds to thethe Pyramid of Mysteries.
(47:31):
Yeah, yeah.
(48:04):
For sure.
(48:28):
Absolutely, absolutely.
I will also point outpeople have gone to the house
to, like, knock on the doorand want to see it.
People live there don't end there.
They're unrelated to tensegrity or CarlosCastaneda's new owners, so don't bother
him, please.
I don't want people going there and beinglike, I heard you on a study of stranger.
I heard about this place. I see it.
(49:01):
Yeah.
It's like the people that ownThe Goonies house
are now like, they've done some thingspublicly where people can come see it.
They've renovated itto look like the 1980s again.
They're they're they're going for it.
I like that, I appreciate that.
Well, great.I think we need to wrap it up.
We've covered a lot.
Again, it's a massive story that we'veonly it's only the tip of the iceberg.
(49:25):
But I think we've sharedthe important parts of it.
The important theories.
Unless there's anything I'm missing,Mariah.
Yeah.
Please.
Oh, yes.
I wanted to hear.
Start with the depressing one.
(49:45):
I would assume.
(50:32):
Yeah.
So that's from Patricia.
Partner at that?
Yeah, yeah,
yeah,
yeah.
(50:56):
Wow. But like, just in a nutshell, it was
Very, very dark.
Very.
Yes. So I
(51:24):
I think I've read that, too, actually.
Yeah, yeah.
It's pretty nice.
Pretty nice.
(52:06):
Yeah, absolutely.
And I've been thinking about thata lot over the last week, actually.
And I also will say this too, is slightly,
slightly taking a turn from there,but it made me think of it is
people do get positive thingsfrom these books, supposedly.
And tensegrity.
Tensegrity is like Taichi, I love Taichi,I think it's really healthy and important
(52:27):
and people get things from the booksand I'm kind of like, that's fine.
I just, I just wish it was more honestabout what it was.
I wish Simon and Schusterwould put like fiction or whatever,
and people can still take from itand have it affect their own lives.
However they wish.
That's the way I am, becauseI just like the truth about those things.
But I have no problem with people
reading these booksand getting something from it.
(52:48):
And he is stealing from a lot of things,you know?
So it's it's not like it's just comingcompletely from from nowhere like he is.
He is stealing from thingsthat he probably liked.
You probably like read something was like,yeah, it really speaks to me.
Let me have Don Juan say that,you know, or whatever.
So, so there are some positive thingsin the books, not in not in his cult,
I would say.I think that is a very terrible situation.
(53:11):
And I think that's evil.
Evil.
But, you know, but I
it is interesting that the books can havesome positive impact on people.
So, yeah.
Yeah.
Yes, yes.
(53:42):
Maybe it's.
Yeah.
Yeah it's a good point.
All right.
Any final thoughts outside.
Is that.
(54:45):
And I'll provide links in the show notesto make it even easier.
And tag her on Instagramso you can easily find her.
Please take her up on that.
I'm being very sincere to, Well,thank you so much.
Maria was great doing this with you.
So much fun.
Such a fascinating storythat I am not done reading about.
I know I'm going to be reading moreabout this soon, probably even tonight.
(55:07):
Because it's like a never ending mystery.
And, it's very hard to share this story.
So I think we did a good job, though.
I think we did. All right.
Oh, yeah.
So let me finish on that.
So tensegrity, the quote unquote workout.
I am going to do it.I've been meaning to try it.
I've just been busy and travelingand I travel again next week.
(55:28):
So I'm going to try to do it this weekend.
I will film it and probably put it onInstagram and or at least bits and pieces.
Are you also going to do it?
Yeah.
Yeah.
No. And I, I do
not own many clothesso I don't have a lot of options.
But it may just be a black t shirtin sweats or something,
(55:51):
because I just don't have any.Anything else?
What about you?
know what I would do with my hair,
because there's no wayto make this look short and blond.
But I will somehow
Oh, man.
That little chain move
so intense, I can'tI can't wait to try it.
(56:12):
But. Yeah. So that'll that'll be fun.
And I'll share that,
and clips or whatever,and, please check and please check it out.
And it'll probably encourage peopleto listen to the podcast, which is great.
Yeah.
Yes. Please do actually,if you film it and tag us, I don't know,
(56:35):
I'll come up with some kind of gift or,you know, award for anybody that does.
Man, that would be incredible.
Would be incredible.
All right, well, thank
you againfor going on this journey with me.
And I'll talk to you soon.
(56:58):
Thank you for listening
to a study of strange, and a very specialthank you to my old friend Maria
for suggesting this storyand then being willing to do a bunch
of research and studyingand really diving into this amazing tale.
I had so much fun.
And listeners,thank you so much for supporting the show.
It has been a busy yearand a study of strange.
(57:18):
We've done a lot.
The show is growing.
I'm taking my first time offfrom the podcast in a while,
so there's just going to besome less episodes throughout the summer.
But if you want to support the showin other ways, check out our Substack,
which you can find to the support tabon our website.
A study of strange.com.
We have additional content,and there will be a lot of articles
over the next few months coming out,some of them free for non-subscribers.
(57:42):
So check that out. Until next time.
Thank you and good night.
Popular Podcasts
United States of Kennedy
United States of Kennedy is a podcast about our cultural fascination with the Kennedy dynasty. Every week, hosts Lyra Smith and George Civeris go into one aspect of the Kennedy story.
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com