July 18, 2022 • 30 mins
Meet Malaka Grant and Nana Darkoa Sekyiamah: friends since 1994, sex bloggers since 2009, now podcasters, and always #BFFFL.
In this new series, Nana Darkoa and Malaka welcome you into their bedrooms, and the bedrooms of African women where they uncover and discuss all things sex, sexuality, and pleasure.
They kick off and celebrate their friendship, expose how little they used to know about sex, and share their excitement for the conversations to come. In one episode, writer, poet, and producer, Nii Ayikwei Parkes describes sex as “that is how adults play,” which Nana Darkoa loves. “It’s soft and secure, so if you fall, you don't hurt yourself.”
And as self-confessed aunties, they both look forward to what’s to come in the boudoir. “It's so important for us to do this, because right now the conversation is still like, ‘Oh, in your 30s, it'll be over for you,’ Malaka explains. “In your 30s is when life truly begins as a woman.”
Malaka Grant and Nana Darkoa Sekyiamah host the Adventures From the Bedrooms of African Women Podcast. Frederica Boswell is the Senior Producer. Fatima Derby is our Associate Producer. Written by Wana Udobang. Audio editors are Mercy Barno and Tevin Sudi. Malaka Grant and Nana Darkoa Sekyiamah are Executive Producers.
The Adventures From the Bedrooms of African Women Podcast is a production of AQ Studios in partnership with Masi Media. Mercy Githaiga is our studio administrator and Selly Thiam is the AQ Studios CEO.
Our theme music is Damn by Ria Boss and music from this episode comes from Epidemic Sounds.
Find Adventures From the Bedrooms of African Women anywhere you get your podcasts, and in pursuing all things sex, sexuality, and pleasure, follow us on all our social media platforms @adventuresfrom.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:03):
best friend for freaking life.
Mhm Yes.
We're not just regular besties.
Best friends for freaking life.
Yeah,
Malaka is that friend that even if we don't speak for a year,
we're cool.
Yeah.
And like I don't feel like I can ever say anything to irritate you.
I think it's,
(00:23):
I think it's a thing that I most value about our friendship.
I really have no fear of offending too.
You can just take it.
No,
it's not that it's just that we get ourselves and understand ourselves and we forgive ourselves.
We do.
And I think that's like huge because what are the things I love it?
(00:43):
You're so quick to forgive your like this is where you sucked up,
this is where and how you sucked up.
You can apologize now and yes,
I forgive you and then we move on.
But other people,
I'm like,
yeah,
the coffin was already ready.
The coffin was a vehicle.
Did you put the nail in it?
(01:04):
Yeah,
I really,
really,
really a friendship and I am so excited that we are doing a podcast together.
Come on.
(01:30):
Hey,
good people.
Welcome to the adventures from the bedrooms of African Women, the podcast.
My name is Malaka Grant and I'm Nana Darkoa Sekyiamah
So
Nana Darkoa and I have been friends since 1990 for where we met in boarding school in Ghana after graduation,
we both moved to different parts of the world but stayed connected by letters and the occasional long distance phone call.
(01:55):
We shared everything. Life was happening and through distance and time we always held on to each other.
And then in 2009 I got married,
you had gotten married and divorced.
We were living life.
And so you went away to a beach trip and you were having fabulous conversations with your friends at that beach trip about sex.
(02:17):
And at the same time I was having conversations with my grandmother because I wanted to know who she was as a woman,
like someone outside of the title grandma.
And you know what better way to find out about a woman than what kind of sex she was having.
So I asked my grandmother and she was just very liberal about it,
which is I think atypical of Ghanian grandmothers.
(02:38):
And so she was telling me about,
you know,
her sex life with my grandfather and now they're both deceased.
And so you were like,
okay,
I've been having these conversations and I'm going to do a blog.
But like in 2009 when we start a blog and we said we never had anybody tell us really anything useful about sex growing up.
(02:59):
Right?
I feel like there was a lot of scaremongering whether my mom for example,
bless her.
Mm let's say I love that woman.
Yeah,
we love you.
But I don't feel like I got any sort of useful information about sex for folks who are from Ghana,
they may remember a show called Osofo Dadzie, for people outside of Ghana.
(03:29):
These were like weekly soaps,
you know,
and Osofo Dadzie, the protagonist was a pastor.
And I felt like what would happen almost every time was that there'll be a young girl who fell pregnant and then her boyfriend would leave her,
her family would throw out of her house and her life will just end in misery.
My mom will always be like,
(03:49):
look,
you see what happens when you mess around with boys.
So I was so scared of messing amount of boys and I don't think I even fully knew what,
what does that mean exactly.
You know,
nobody ever sort of sat me down and said this is what it means.
And then I also got my period very early.
I was in boarding school and I also knew that once you had your period you could fall pregnant.
(04:11):
So I knew that at least you had that information.
I didn't even know that.
What did they tell you?
They told me nothing.
Like my mom was like a virginity.
What's what's a bird of prey condor?
She would like circle into like,
are you still a virgin?
I was like,
she was obsessed with virginity.
And I just got my period,
I'm like,
I'm bleeding and she's like,
(04:33):
okay,
here's a tampon.
Oh,
it was really traumatic.
I don't know if I ever told you the story about my mom and the tampon and you know,
I'm okay with the world knowing it's okay.
I was like,
I'm bleeding,
I don't know what's happening.
And she was like,
oh okay,
lay down.
I'll show you how to manage it.
And she takes this tampon and tries to push it inside of me.
Yes.
And I think I got my period at 10 If I'm Not mistaken.
(04:58):
And I was like,
this really hurts.
This cannot be right.
But she was hawkish about virginity.
If I got sick,
it's because you were pregnant.
If I gained weight,
are you pregnant?
She was just obsessed.
And I'm like,
I don't even know how one gets pregnant.
So I'm still in my 10 year old body and you're not even like bleeding for real for real when you first get it was like a little trickle.
(05:21):
It's like,
hey girl,
somebody who was obsessed with virginity to do that.
Like she probably took your virginity with,
she probably took my virginity with.
So if anybody asked who took my virginity and my mother were laughing but it's actually like quite serious.
It is it is.
I'm sorry for 10 year old.
Thank you.
I'm sorry for her.
But she's okay.
She's 44 now.
(05:41):
She's made it,
you know?
Yes,
it's all right.
But at least kudos to auntie for telling you that you can't get pregnant.
This signifies a shift.
But I knew I could get pregnant.
So I got my period.
Then maybe a few months later I wasn't getting my period and I was so scared,
I remind you I was in a single sex sport in school.
(06:04):
Right,
Really scared.
I thought I was pregnant.
So I would go to the convent every day and pray for my period to come.
Oh no,
we don't pray for periods of no,
we pray for parents to come.
It's always kind of scary when your parent hasn't come.
And that I think was also part of what motivated us to do this blog.
(06:24):
You know,
and now to do this podcast,
we want people to just have real knowledge about sex.
I particularly don't want people to think of sex as something that also necessarily results in pregnancy because you know,
that connection is not automatic.
It doesn't need to be,
it doesn't need to be and it shouldn't be.
(06:46):
I'm speaking of somebody whose birth for people,
I'm like,
it's not every time I have sex that you know exactly,
I just want to enjoy the person,
you know,
like I have originated in one of our future episodes that people are going to here.
We have the incredible writer,
Poet,
(07:06):
producer Parks describe sex as adults play,
how adults play.
I loved that.
You know,
because I think that's how we should think of sex as play for adults.
And when you think of play,
like you get to choose who you can play with.
You get to choose what games you play.
(07:28):
You know,
like if you play in the playground,
maybe the playground is on grass.
So it's soft and secure.
So if you fall,
you don't hurt yourself.
Yeah.
And I don't want to think of sex as something that one does too.
Yeah.
You know what's great about the playground is where you work things out.
Do you remember going to the playgrounds,
like with your friends?
Like,
okay,
this is where we need to talk about whatever happened and yeah,
(07:50):
you can do that during sex.
It was like,
do you remember the way?
So yeah,
I think that metaphor works.
No,
I love it.
So,
you know,
we've talked extensively about all the knowledge or lack of knowledge we received around sex and our similarities and our parallels are just amazing.
(08:19):
So you're a mom,
I'm a mom.
It's just funny how we do things.
I'm just more of a mom because like quantity experience,
but you have more mature moming experience because I feel like our first baby together outside of the blog was and I don't think you should call your daughter,
(08:42):
You should say Naja your god daughter because I am her godmother.
Like,
you can call her god daughter,
she is my daughter,
give birth to her.
For me,
we all agree that Naja is really your child,
my child baby.
She does love you.
You have no idea.
But like,
you know,
because of that dynamic between the two of you and because of the work that we've done,
(09:07):
it's so much easier for me to talk about sex with her and to her and she's very aware of her sexuality and what her preferences might be and even being open to question.
And that's never something that,
you know,
at least for me,
I was even open to consider question or what,
It was never a question that I would get married and have Children and become a grandmother and die.
(09:38):
As we've said,
one of the reasons for starting this podcast is to be a resource for younger women who might need a little anti advice or even some big anti advice.
So,
nana called up her beloved god daughter,
my daughter Naja,
To find out more about how a 16 year old is experiencing love and dating.
(09:59):
Well,
I won't lie.
It's a very confusing time,
but not in the sense of confusion more like,
it's it's irritating to be in love.
Not even in love but liking someone because for me in particular,
I live in a relatively small area and I go to a very small school.
So chances are if you have a crush on someone,
(10:21):
your friend might have a crush on them as well.
I'm curious like,
have you had any relationships at all before?
Um,
have you ever dated anybody?
Unfortunately not.
I got married when I was in kindergarten on the playground,
but tell me about being married and kindergarten on the playground.
(10:42):
Do you remember?
It was great.
I got married to a boy.
We were good friends.
It was under the slides,
we had a wood chip wedding.
They are through wood chips at us and it was painful,
but it was fun and we held hands and then we forgot about it less than a week later.
That's like such a cute memory.
And why do you think you haven't seven dated anybody?
(11:04):
I would say between my overall personality and the people,
I just so happened to surround myself.
It's a bit of a clash between those two things.
Um and I don't think I fit the type of many of the people around me.
Did you say you're gay?
I'm bi.
But I've been trying to convince myself that I'm either straight or a lesbian and kind of accepting that I'm in the middle at this point,
(11:31):
Why have you been trying to convince yourself?
Like why do you feel like you have to be one or the other?
An odd insecurity I have where I feel like I need to just be one or the other.
Because I was explaining to someone where I was and they were like,
oh,
so you're straight or you're a lesbian or like,
you can't choose one.
And that kind of made me just like,
(11:53):
it made something click inside of me and I was just wondering if it was correct if that's the right word or if I was just being indecisive,
you don't have to choose anything.
I'm also by I identify as bi.
You don't have to choose to be straight,
okay,
and this is me speaking as your godmother,
you know?
Um I think it's a great position to be in,
(12:15):
you know,
it's almost like getting the best of both worlds basically.
Would you like to date someone and then the ideal world Yes,
I would actually,
the idea of dating is very appealing to me.
I'm not going to lie,
the cuddling and the,
the kisses on the forehead and piggyback rides through the sunset on a beautiful sunday afternoon after you just had a wonderful picnic on the beach.
(12:42):
That actually sounds amazing.
That sounds like something straight out of them come.
What makes you think that's like what dating is?
Like,
I know that's not what dating is like,
but in an ideal world,
like you said,
That's what I perceive it as I grew up on Disney films,
so I assumed that by 16 I would have a boyfriend and arch enemy and a talking dog to help me through it all.
(13:08):
Unfortunately,
I live in 2021 in South Africa,
how does it feel like not to have a boyfriend or a girlfriend for that matter?
I think honestly,
I'm surviving like I'm breathing so I'm fine,
but it's,
I think my thing is I just want to feel cared for by someone outside of my family,
like outside of obligation,
(13:30):
I assume,
I guess it's a nice feeling,
being cared for,
honestly,
it's just,
it's heartwarming knowing that someone likes you outside of having to like you,
It's flattering,
I really admire that,
(13:50):
and in general,
I really admire what I see as a current generation of young women who are way more knowledgeable than you,
or I were growing up,
I'm more confident,
I'm figuring out what their sexuality is,
because definitely at 16,
I didn't even know what sexuality,
was right?
I went to university when I was 19 and I started reading feminist books and I started to understand sexuality.
(14:16):
And then I was reflecting back on my own experiences in boarding school,
and then I was like,
oh,
so what I did with girls and body in school,
was that sex?
What does that mean?
You know,
since I mean,
I'm not a virgin because for me,
sex was something women only did with voice.
I never thought what I did with that the girls were sex,
I didn't even think about it,
(14:36):
you know?
And so it's incredible to me that someone who has not actually had sex,
understood his sexuality in ways that gosh,
it took me until I was 30 to figure out and not even 30 exactly,
like in my thirties to figure out,
talk about being a late bloomer,
Oh my God,
you were always blooming late,
but you know what I've been blooming right on time.
(15:00):
You've been blaming right on time and you've made up for lost time.
I'm like,
you are a whole orchard?
I'm like,
oh,
tell me about your feminist journey.
That question.
Why don't you like that question?
Do you remember our first argument about feminism?
It wasn't even like,
an argument was like,
a tiff and you had come out to me as a feminist and you know,
(15:21):
you were talking about feminism.
I was like,
I was like,
that's just something white women created,
you know,
blah,
blah blah.
Because that was,
like,
in my context,
something that white women created.
It's like,
all the things they were fighting for was like,
all the stuff that black women had to do to survive anyway for hundreds of years,
(15:42):
and you were like,
this has nothing to do with white women,
Shut up,
shut up,
but eventually you like,
shut it down.
I was like,
okay,
she's a feminist.
I know,
but I can,
you know,
I understand because the reality is there was such a thin known as white feminism,
which doesn't consider how race class disability and everything else affects how you experience agenda.
(16:07):
So,
yeah,
that historical critique of white feminism is real and it's valid.
Um and a lot of black feminists have,
I mean,
it's because of black feminists that I consider myself to be a feminist,
right?
So I started identifying as a feminist when I was 19 years old,
I'd moved to the UK and bell hooks particularly had a huge impact on me.
(16:30):
You know,
I was also in the U.
K as a black african girl.
I was born in the U.
K.
But I hadn't gone up there.
I hadn't lived there.
I was aware of my race for the very first time,
which I know speaks to the privilege that I had in Ghana,
right?
But it was suddenly like I had gone from being upper middle class.
Like my mom had once described us to be in subclass and so I just didn't know how to understand the world.
(16:57):
And bell hooks help me understand the world.
And when she explained what feminism was from a black feminist lands,
I understood how I as a young girl had resisted my mom saying come and help me in the kitchen one day you're going to make some other woman cast me out all of these things I hadn't wanted to do because they were stereotypically gendered.
(17:21):
I now understood that in a sense I was trying to resist Being socialized as a girl.
And so it sort of made me realize I've always been a feminist.
I just didn't have the language for it.
But of course I became even more feminist and you know,
when you figure it out or you sort of get introduced to,
it was just a little bit militant.
Yes.
When I was 19,
I was it wasn't just you,
I was fighting with everybody about feminism.
(17:44):
Now pool,
you say something,
I would just ignore you because I don't have the time and energy.
I know who I am and I'm confident in who I am.
But you have come a long way in your feminist journey.
You did not identify as a feminist and now look at you.
I will not because I'll tell you why I don't.
But you do very feminist work.
I do very feminist work,
but I feel like I haven't earned the title.
(18:05):
I know.
So you went to school,
you have a master's degree in feminism and gender and development feminism.
You know,
people are like,
my favorite bell hooks quote is,
and I'm like,
I have I've read,
you know,
like the little memes,
the memes.
So I'm like,
(18:26):
I don't feel like I've earned the title feminist.
I know I do the work and I support the cause and I'm like,
but I cannot give myself that you don't need a degree.
I don't care what you need.
You will not be able to convince me in this short time.
I'm not trying to convince you,
I have to convince the listeners.
Please tell them for those who are struggling like me.
(18:48):
Yeah,
I think for me,
what feminism is,
first of all,
recognizing that we live in a world that in general places men in positions of authority of a woman and props up a system where some people are marginalized and it is unfair and as a feminist,
what you're trying to do is change that system.
(19:09):
It can be in a small way,
it can be in a big way,
But that's the key thing,
first of all recognize this unfair system exists and that you do something to try and change that system and how did that then relate to sex?
I mean,
if I wasn't a feminist,
I wouldn't do the work that I do today.
Right.
Part of what I recognized once we started blogging about sex was how incredibly political it was.
(19:34):
You know,
we have states governments constantly trying to legislate,
well,
we have sex with when we have sex,
we have sex.
It's an incredibly political work.
And if I wasn't a feminist,
I wouldn't do it for me.
This is part of the change that I want to see in the world.
I want women to experience pleasure in their bodies and you know,
(19:54):
to have more and better orgasms.
Well,
incidentally,
you wrote a whole last book about sex,
which is it's a best seller,
right?
It's so funny because so many people like it's the best.
No,
really,
but everybody's reading it and I'm like,
so that's why I know the bestseller list is like,
it's like,
yeah,
(20:14):
it ain't for real because everybody's reading it.
So why did you choose to write this book because of all of the work we've been doing on the blog because there were so many incredible stories I knew existed about African women's experiences of sex and sexuality.
I kind of wanted to know more.
And so I thought why don't I just interview a whole bunch of African women from across the continent and then ask them all the questions I want to ask them.
(20:40):
So the book was really just me being nosy,
wanted to get into people's business.
But no,
I also wanted to show what I need to be true about African women's sexuality that it was varied,
it was complicated,
it was interesting,
it was full of pleasure and we went just what the Western media tends to portray as us,
(21:02):
you know,
as victims of polygamy or women who have experienced female genital mutilation and don't have any pleasure in their lives or people who are just passive I knew,
but we're so much more,
we're vibrant,
we have agency,
we're navigating different types of relationships structures and I think people really get that when they read the book,
(21:26):
the full breath of us jurist their stories of pleasure and they're also stories of pain.
But I think it's a more complete picture than we have traditionally seen in the world and that's why it's so important.
It's a very important book to have in the world.
Thank you.
So one of the things like people often ask me,
even with my book is what kind of backlash do you experience and I don't know about you malika,
(21:52):
I personally haven't experienced backlash from doing this blog and even now from my book,
I feel like if anything,
I have got a lot of positive reinforcement out of doing this.
You know,
I've had so many young women in different countries around the world come up to me and say you have no idea how much this blog meant to me.
(22:12):
I've even had a young married couple tell me how they got married.
Both of them were virgins and they read the blog together and literally it allowed them to have a conversation.
They wouldn't otherwise have been able to have I have been invited to festivals around the world to speak.
Yes,
you and I were investing their own money and nobody was paying us to do this,
(22:33):
but I feel like for me the benefits have been so much more especially people saying how much this blog has meant to their life.
I mean recently we're in a much better please.
Yes,
we are.
And now we have this whole ecosystem of people around not just the blog but the podcast and the festival and everybody started as a fun.
So for me,
(22:54):
no backlash,
it's actually just been positivity and one of the reasons that I was in the shadows is because of my religious life,
like my church life because being in the church environment like that and writing like this.
And what was weird is that people eventually found the blog from my church.
(23:15):
How did they react?
They were like,
oh girl,
I see some of the stuff you write and it was very positive.
I think that was one of the reasons I was able to go from my pseudonym Lebanon to using my name.
And then one of the things I was able to do and I don't talk about this much.
But I have seven books.
Please talk about it.
(23:36):
Because some of your books started out as a series and that's exactly where I was going to of those books started out as a series on the blog and it's called The Daughters of Swallows.
So for me discovering that my church people had discovered the blog and they had nothing negative to say about it.
And in fact talked about how much they enjoyed reading it.
I was like,
oh we do this all the time where we keep negative voices loud and center and kind of project with that and anticipate the worst.
(24:04):
But I think for the most part people have goodwill and people want to learn and we all have shared experiences.
You go to church and everybody skank nasty.
It's because we're just human and we enjoy a good hump Once in a while,
like that's how we got here a hump.
Whether it was good,
it was good or not.
So good,
(24:25):
but hopefully future ones can be good.
Yes,
that's like,
this is part of what we're here to do.
We're here to do on the podcast to make future humps fantastic for women,
especially for women especially.
So,
you know,
when we started this blog adventures from the bedrooms of African women.
This is like,
what am I greatest flex?
(24:46):
It was the first blog of its type in the world the world talking about African Women.
Okay,
okay,
okay.
Alright,
okay.
Specifically African Women,
not just about the hotel's name,
another one.
Nobody can you cannot defy you neighbor one anyway.
(25:10):
But what I loved about doing this with you is how free and open you were to do that because I was not in a position to do that because I couldn't it wasn't envy.
It wasn't jealous,
it was a wistfulness.
I was like,
I wish I could like do this with you and be front and center and be present and everybody to know who I was as a co founder of the blog.
(25:32):
But I've always admired your bravery and your fearlessness and you're like,
this is who I am.
This is what I've come to say and fuck you if you've got something else to say about it.
But yeah,
I've also always admired you,
right?
Because you were doing this with me and we did it together.
(25:52):
It's just where I had my face out there.
Your face wasn't out there,
but people who knew you knew you were doing the break,
right?
And the reason why I admired you because in a sense,
as far as I was concerned,
it was easy for me to be public one.
I worked for a feminist organization too.
I was divorced and I owe no one anything you were and still are married to a deacon.
(26:18):
How this has been promoted to pasta.
How does a pastor's wife co found a blog about sex when we're talking about oral sex,
we're talking about sex outside of marriage.
We're talking about queer sex.
And so for me,
I always really admired because I don't know what I would have done.
(26:39):
I was married and married to a pastor,
you know,
so I think it's been incredible.
And yeah,
it's been great to do this with you.
And it's even better to be taking this to the next level.
And I have all the years ahead of me,
right?
Because further on in this season,
we speak to older women people has a forties,
fifties,
(26:59):
sixties,
hot sex.
And guys,
It only gets better.
It only gets better.
And this is why it's so important for us to do this because right now,
the conversation is still like in your thirties,
it'll be over for you in your 30s is when life truly begins as a woman and the sex does get better for most people,
(27:19):
I think.
But at least to all the women that we've spoken to and there's hope.
And I think that's what's been so terrible about the narrative is like after point X,
there's no more hope.
There's no more joy.
There's no more excitement.
There's nothing to look forward to.
And you will hear in this season,
there's much to look forward to with sex and aging.
What I would love to see in a society,
(27:43):
free minded society be that I could go to my grandma and ask grandma are you and grandpa having sex and that grandma would not be like embarrassed and and how you shocked or whatever,
because it's just like part of the life.
(28:09):
That's just a tiny appetizer of the kinds of conversations we will be having this season.
Think of it as the small chops in palm wine to wet your appetite.
Welcome to our bedrooms and the bedrooms of African women.
Thanks to all of you who follow the blog and the new listeners,
where have you been?
We're glad that you found us and we guarantee you maximum satisfaction as you enjoy the ride this season.
(28:36):
We're talking orgasms,
kinks.
The list is plenty,
we're learning,
we're loving,
we're listening and pleasuring here's to great sex.
(29:07):
The Adventures from the bedrooms of African Woman podcast is hosted by Malaka Grant and Nana Darkoa Sekyiamah, Freddie boswell is our senior producer.
Fatima Derby is our associate producer,
written by Wanna Udobang, audio editors are Mercy Barno.
and Tevin Sudi. Malaka Grant and Nana Darkoa are executive producers.
(29:30):
The Adventures from the bedrooms of African woman podcast is a production of AQ Studios in partnership with Masi Media.
MercyGithaiga is our studio administrator and Selly Thiam is the key studio CEO, follow us on all our social media that's at A.
Q Studios podcasts.
Our theme music is them performed by Ria Boss music from this episode comes from blue dot sessions.
(29:55):
Find adventures from the bedrooms of African women anywhere.
You get your podcasts and in the pursuit of all things sex,
sexuality and pleasure.
Follow us on all our social media platforms at adventures from.
Thanks for listening.
(30:16):
Goddamn!
She's so fly!
Goddamn!
She must die!
Goddamn!
With the Goddess!
Live!
She!
Everything!
You God damn,
so fly.
God damn.
best friend for freaking life.
Mhm Yes.
We're not just regular besties.
Best friends for freaking life.
Yeah,
Malaka is that friend that even if we don't speak for a year,
we're cool.
Yeah.
And like I don't feel like I can ever say anything to irritate you.
I think it's,
(00:23):
I think it's a thing that I most value about our friendship.
I really have no fear of offending too.
You can just take it.
No,
it's not that it's just that we get ourselves and understand ourselves and we forgive ourselves.
We do.
And I think that's like huge because what are the things I love it?
(00:43):
You're so quick to forgive your like this is where you sucked up,
this is where and how you sucked up.
You can apologize now and yes,
I forgive you and then we move on.
But other people,
I'm like,
yeah,
the coffin was already ready.
The coffin was a vehicle.
Did you put the nail in it?
(01:04):
Yeah,
I really,
really,
really a friendship and I am so excited that we are doing a podcast together.
Come on.
(01:30):
Hey,
good people.
Welcome to the adventures from the bedrooms of African Women, the podcast.
My name is Malaka Grant and I'm Nana Darkoa Sekyiamah
So
Nana Darkoa and I have been friends since 1990 for where we met in boarding school in Ghana after graduation,
we both moved to different parts of the world but stayed connected by letters and the occasional long distance phone call.
(01:55):
We shared everything. Life was happening and through distance and time we always held on to each other.
And then in 2009 I got married,
you had gotten married and divorced.
We were living life.
And so you went away to a beach trip and you were having fabulous conversations with your friends at that beach trip about sex.
(02:17):
And at the same time I was having conversations with my grandmother because I wanted to know who she was as a woman,
like someone outside of the title grandma.
And you know what better way to find out about a woman than what kind of sex she was having.
So I asked my grandmother and she was just very liberal about it,
which is I think atypical of Ghanian grandmothers.
(02:38):
And so she was telling me about,
you know,
her sex life with my grandfather and now they're both deceased.
And so you were like,
okay,
I've been having these conversations and I'm going to do a blog.
But like in 2009 when we start a blog and we said we never had anybody tell us really anything useful about sex growing up.
(02:59):
Right?
I feel like there was a lot of scaremongering whether my mom for example,
bless her.
Mm let's say I love that woman.
Yeah,
we love you.
But I don't feel like I got any sort of useful information about sex for folks who are from Ghana,
they may remember a show called Osofo Dadzie, for people outside of Ghana.
(03:29):
These were like weekly soaps,
you know,
and Osofo Dadzie, the protagonist was a pastor.
And I felt like what would happen almost every time was that there'll be a young girl who fell pregnant and then her boyfriend would leave her,
her family would throw out of her house and her life will just end in misery.
My mom will always be like,
(03:49):
look,
you see what happens when you mess around with boys.
So I was so scared of messing amount of boys and I don't think I even fully knew what,
what does that mean exactly.
You know,
nobody ever sort of sat me down and said this is what it means.
And then I also got my period very early.
I was in boarding school and I also knew that once you had your period you could fall pregnant.
(04:11):
So I knew that at least you had that information.
I didn't even know that.
What did they tell you?
They told me nothing.
Like my mom was like a virginity.
What's what's a bird of prey condor?
She would like circle into like,
are you still a virgin?
I was like,
she was obsessed with virginity.
And I just got my period,
I'm like,
I'm bleeding and she's like,
(04:33):
okay,
here's a tampon.
Oh,
it was really traumatic.
I don't know if I ever told you the story about my mom and the tampon and you know,
I'm okay with the world knowing it's okay.
I was like,
I'm bleeding,
I don't know what's happening.
And she was like,
oh okay,
lay down.
I'll show you how to manage it.
And she takes this tampon and tries to push it inside of me.
Yes.
And I think I got my period at 10 If I'm Not mistaken.
(04:58):
And I was like,
this really hurts.
This cannot be right.
But she was hawkish about virginity.
If I got sick,
it's because you were pregnant.
If I gained weight,
are you pregnant?
She was just obsessed.
And I'm like,
I don't even know how one gets pregnant.
So I'm still in my 10 year old body and you're not even like bleeding for real for real when you first get it was like a little trickle.
(05:21):
It's like,
hey girl,
somebody who was obsessed with virginity to do that.
Like she probably took your virginity with,
she probably took my virginity with.
So if anybody asked who took my virginity and my mother were laughing but it's actually like quite serious.
It is it is.
I'm sorry for 10 year old.
Thank you.
I'm sorry for her.
But she's okay.
She's 44 now.
(05:41):
She's made it,
you know?
Yes,
it's all right.
But at least kudos to auntie for telling you that you can't get pregnant.
This signifies a shift.
But I knew I could get pregnant.
So I got my period.
Then maybe a few months later I wasn't getting my period and I was so scared,
I remind you I was in a single sex sport in school.
(06:04):
Right,
Really scared.
I thought I was pregnant.
So I would go to the convent every day and pray for my period to come.
Oh no,
we don't pray for periods of no,
we pray for parents to come.
It's always kind of scary when your parent hasn't come.
And that I think was also part of what motivated us to do this blog.
(06:24):
You know,
and now to do this podcast,
we want people to just have real knowledge about sex.
I particularly don't want people to think of sex as something that also necessarily results in pregnancy because you know,
that connection is not automatic.
It doesn't need to be,
it doesn't need to be and it shouldn't be.
(06:46):
I'm speaking of somebody whose birth for people,
I'm like,
it's not every time I have sex that you know exactly,
I just want to enjoy the person,
you know,
like I have originated in one of our future episodes that people are going to here.
We have the incredible writer,
Poet,
(07:06):
producer Parks describe sex as adults play,
how adults play.
I loved that.
You know,
because I think that's how we should think of sex as play for adults.
And when you think of play,
like you get to choose who you can play with.
You get to choose what games you play.
(07:28):
You know,
like if you play in the playground,
maybe the playground is on grass.
So it's soft and secure.
So if you fall,
you don't hurt yourself.
Yeah.
And I don't want to think of sex as something that one does too.
Yeah.
You know what's great about the playground is where you work things out.
Do you remember going to the playgrounds,
like with your friends?
Like,
okay,
this is where we need to talk about whatever happened and yeah,
(07:50):
you can do that during sex.
It was like,
do you remember the way?
So yeah,
I think that metaphor works.
No,
I love it.
So,
you know,
we've talked extensively about all the knowledge or lack of knowledge we received around sex and our similarities and our parallels are just amazing.
(08:19):
So you're a mom,
I'm a mom.
It's just funny how we do things.
I'm just more of a mom because like quantity experience,
but you have more mature moming experience because I feel like our first baby together outside of the blog was and I don't think you should call your daughter,
(08:42):
You should say Naja your god daughter because I am her godmother.
Like,
you can call her god daughter,
she is my daughter,
give birth to her.
For me,
we all agree that Naja is really your child,
my child baby.
She does love you.
You have no idea.
But like,
you know,
because of that dynamic between the two of you and because of the work that we've done,
(09:07):
it's so much easier for me to talk about sex with her and to her and she's very aware of her sexuality and what her preferences might be and even being open to question.
And that's never something that,
you know,
at least for me,
I was even open to consider question or what,
It was never a question that I would get married and have Children and become a grandmother and die.
(09:38):
As we've said,
one of the reasons for starting this podcast is to be a resource for younger women who might need a little anti advice or even some big anti advice.
So,
nana called up her beloved god daughter,
my daughter Naja,
To find out more about how a 16 year old is experiencing love and dating.
(09:59):
Well,
I won't lie.
It's a very confusing time,
but not in the sense of confusion more like,
it's it's irritating to be in love.
Not even in love but liking someone because for me in particular,
I live in a relatively small area and I go to a very small school.
So chances are if you have a crush on someone,
(10:21):
your friend might have a crush on them as well.
I'm curious like,
have you had any relationships at all before?
Um,
have you ever dated anybody?
Unfortunately not.
I got married when I was in kindergarten on the playground,
but tell me about being married and kindergarten on the playground.
(10:42):
Do you remember?
It was great.
I got married to a boy.
We were good friends.
It was under the slides,
we had a wood chip wedding.
They are through wood chips at us and it was painful,
but it was fun and we held hands and then we forgot about it less than a week later.
That's like such a cute memory.
And why do you think you haven't seven dated anybody?
(11:04):
I would say between my overall personality and the people,
I just so happened to surround myself.
It's a bit of a clash between those two things.
Um and I don't think I fit the type of many of the people around me.
Did you say you're gay?
I'm bi.
But I've been trying to convince myself that I'm either straight or a lesbian and kind of accepting that I'm in the middle at this point,
(11:31):
Why have you been trying to convince yourself?
Like why do you feel like you have to be one or the other?
An odd insecurity I have where I feel like I need to just be one or the other.
Because I was explaining to someone where I was and they were like,
oh,
so you're straight or you're a lesbian or like,
you can't choose one.
And that kind of made me just like,
(11:53):
it made something click inside of me and I was just wondering if it was correct if that's the right word or if I was just being indecisive,
you don't have to choose anything.
I'm also by I identify as bi.
You don't have to choose to be straight,
okay,
and this is me speaking as your godmother,
you know?
Um I think it's a great position to be in,
(12:15):
you know,
it's almost like getting the best of both worlds basically.
Would you like to date someone and then the ideal world Yes,
I would actually,
the idea of dating is very appealing to me.
I'm not going to lie,
the cuddling and the,
the kisses on the forehead and piggyback rides through the sunset on a beautiful sunday afternoon after you just had a wonderful picnic on the beach.
(12:42):
That actually sounds amazing.
That sounds like something straight out of them come.
What makes you think that's like what dating is?
Like,
I know that's not what dating is like,
but in an ideal world,
like you said,
That's what I perceive it as I grew up on Disney films,
so I assumed that by 16 I would have a boyfriend and arch enemy and a talking dog to help me through it all.
(13:08):
Unfortunately,
I live in 2021 in South Africa,
how does it feel like not to have a boyfriend or a girlfriend for that matter?
I think honestly,
I'm surviving like I'm breathing so I'm fine,
but it's,
I think my thing is I just want to feel cared for by someone outside of my family,
like outside of obligation,
(13:30):
I assume,
I guess it's a nice feeling,
being cared for,
honestly,
it's just,
it's heartwarming knowing that someone likes you outside of having to like you,
It's flattering,
I really admire that,
(13:50):
and in general,
I really admire what I see as a current generation of young women who are way more knowledgeable than you,
or I were growing up,
I'm more confident,
I'm figuring out what their sexuality is,
because definitely at 16,
I didn't even know what sexuality,
was right?
I went to university when I was 19 and I started reading feminist books and I started to understand sexuality.
(14:16):
And then I was reflecting back on my own experiences in boarding school,
and then I was like,
oh,
so what I did with girls and body in school,
was that sex?
What does that mean?
You know,
since I mean,
I'm not a virgin because for me,
sex was something women only did with voice.
I never thought what I did with that the girls were sex,
I didn't even think about it,
(14:36):
you know?
And so it's incredible to me that someone who has not actually had sex,
understood his sexuality in ways that gosh,
it took me until I was 30 to figure out and not even 30 exactly,
like in my thirties to figure out,
talk about being a late bloomer,
Oh my God,
you were always blooming late,
but you know what I've been blooming right on time.
(15:00):
You've been blaming right on time and you've made up for lost time.
I'm like,
you are a whole orchard?
I'm like,
oh,
tell me about your feminist journey.
That question.
Why don't you like that question?
Do you remember our first argument about feminism?
It wasn't even like,
an argument was like,
a tiff and you had come out to me as a feminist and you know,
(15:21):
you were talking about feminism.
I was like,
I was like,
that's just something white women created,
you know,
blah,
blah blah.
Because that was,
like,
in my context,
something that white women created.
It's like,
all the things they were fighting for was like,
all the stuff that black women had to do to survive anyway for hundreds of years,
(15:42):
and you were like,
this has nothing to do with white women,
Shut up,
shut up,
but eventually you like,
shut it down.
I was like,
okay,
she's a feminist.
I know,
but I can,
you know,
I understand because the reality is there was such a thin known as white feminism,
which doesn't consider how race class disability and everything else affects how you experience agenda.
(16:07):
So,
yeah,
that historical critique of white feminism is real and it's valid.
Um and a lot of black feminists have,
I mean,
it's because of black feminists that I consider myself to be a feminist,
right?
So I started identifying as a feminist when I was 19 years old,
I'd moved to the UK and bell hooks particularly had a huge impact on me.
(16:30):
You know,
I was also in the U.
K as a black african girl.
I was born in the U.
K.
But I hadn't gone up there.
I hadn't lived there.
I was aware of my race for the very first time,
which I know speaks to the privilege that I had in Ghana,
right?
But it was suddenly like I had gone from being upper middle class.
Like my mom had once described us to be in subclass and so I just didn't know how to understand the world.
(16:57):
And bell hooks help me understand the world.
And when she explained what feminism was from a black feminist lands,
I understood how I as a young girl had resisted my mom saying come and help me in the kitchen one day you're going to make some other woman cast me out all of these things I hadn't wanted to do because they were stereotypically gendered.
(17:21):
I now understood that in a sense I was trying to resist Being socialized as a girl.
And so it sort of made me realize I've always been a feminist.
I just didn't have the language for it.
But of course I became even more feminist and you know,
when you figure it out or you sort of get introduced to,
it was just a little bit militant.
Yes.
When I was 19,
I was it wasn't just you,
I was fighting with everybody about feminism.
(17:44):
Now pool,
you say something,
I would just ignore you because I don't have the time and energy.
I know who I am and I'm confident in who I am.
But you have come a long way in your feminist journey.
You did not identify as a feminist and now look at you.
I will not because I'll tell you why I don't.
But you do very feminist work.
I do very feminist work,
but I feel like I haven't earned the title.
(18:05):
I know.
So you went to school,
you have a master's degree in feminism and gender and development feminism.
You know,
people are like,
my favorite bell hooks quote is,
and I'm like,
I have I've read,
you know,
like the little memes,
the memes.
So I'm like,
(18:26):
I don't feel like I've earned the title feminist.
I know I do the work and I support the cause and I'm like,
but I cannot give myself that you don't need a degree.
I don't care what you need.
You will not be able to convince me in this short time.
I'm not trying to convince you,
I have to convince the listeners.
Please tell them for those who are struggling like me.
(18:48):
Yeah,
I think for me,
what feminism is,
first of all,
recognizing that we live in a world that in general places men in positions of authority of a woman and props up a system where some people are marginalized and it is unfair and as a feminist,
what you're trying to do is change that system.
(19:09):
It can be in a small way,
it can be in a big way,
But that's the key thing,
first of all recognize this unfair system exists and that you do something to try and change that system and how did that then relate to sex?
I mean,
if I wasn't a feminist,
I wouldn't do the work that I do today.
Right.
Part of what I recognized once we started blogging about sex was how incredibly political it was.
(19:34):
You know,
we have states governments constantly trying to legislate,
well,
we have sex with when we have sex,
we have sex.
It's an incredibly political work.
And if I wasn't a feminist,
I wouldn't do it for me.
This is part of the change that I want to see in the world.
I want women to experience pleasure in their bodies and you know,
(19:54):
to have more and better orgasms.
Well,
incidentally,
you wrote a whole last book about sex,
which is it's a best seller,
right?
It's so funny because so many people like it's the best.
No,
really,
but everybody's reading it and I'm like,
so that's why I know the bestseller list is like,
it's like,
yeah,
(20:14):
it ain't for real because everybody's reading it.
So why did you choose to write this book because of all of the work we've been doing on the blog because there were so many incredible stories I knew existed about African women's experiences of sex and sexuality.
I kind of wanted to know more.
And so I thought why don't I just interview a whole bunch of African women from across the continent and then ask them all the questions I want to ask them.
(20:40):
So the book was really just me being nosy,
wanted to get into people's business.
But no,
I also wanted to show what I need to be true about African women's sexuality that it was varied,
it was complicated,
it was interesting,
it was full of pleasure and we went just what the Western media tends to portray as us,
(21:02):
you know,
as victims of polygamy or women who have experienced female genital mutilation and don't have any pleasure in their lives or people who are just passive I knew,
but we're so much more,
we're vibrant,
we have agency,
we're navigating different types of relationships structures and I think people really get that when they read the book,
(21:26):
the full breath of us jurist their stories of pleasure and they're also stories of pain.
But I think it's a more complete picture than we have traditionally seen in the world and that's why it's so important.
It's a very important book to have in the world.
Thank you.
So one of the things like people often ask me,
even with my book is what kind of backlash do you experience and I don't know about you malika,
(21:52):
I personally haven't experienced backlash from doing this blog and even now from my book,
I feel like if anything,
I have got a lot of positive reinforcement out of doing this.
You know,
I've had so many young women in different countries around the world come up to me and say you have no idea how much this blog meant to me.
(22:12):
I've even had a young married couple tell me how they got married.
Both of them were virgins and they read the blog together and literally it allowed them to have a conversation.
They wouldn't otherwise have been able to have I have been invited to festivals around the world to speak.
Yes,
you and I were investing their own money and nobody was paying us to do this,
(22:33):
but I feel like for me the benefits have been so much more especially people saying how much this blog has meant to their life.
I mean recently we're in a much better please.
Yes,
we are.
And now we have this whole ecosystem of people around not just the blog but the podcast and the festival and everybody started as a fun.
So for me,
(22:54):
no backlash,
it's actually just been positivity and one of the reasons that I was in the shadows is because of my religious life,
like my church life because being in the church environment like that and writing like this.
And what was weird is that people eventually found the blog from my church.
(23:15):
How did they react?
They were like,
oh girl,
I see some of the stuff you write and it was very positive.
I think that was one of the reasons I was able to go from my pseudonym Lebanon to using my name.
And then one of the things I was able to do and I don't talk about this much.
But I have seven books.
Please talk about it.
(23:36):
Because some of your books started out as a series and that's exactly where I was going to of those books started out as a series on the blog and it's called The Daughters of Swallows.
So for me discovering that my church people had discovered the blog and they had nothing negative to say about it.
And in fact talked about how much they enjoyed reading it.
I was like,
oh we do this all the time where we keep negative voices loud and center and kind of project with that and anticipate the worst.
(24:04):
But I think for the most part people have goodwill and people want to learn and we all have shared experiences.
You go to church and everybody skank nasty.
It's because we're just human and we enjoy a good hump Once in a while,
like that's how we got here a hump.
Whether it was good,
it was good or not.
So good,
(24:25):
but hopefully future ones can be good.
Yes,
that's like,
this is part of what we're here to do.
We're here to do on the podcast to make future humps fantastic for women,
especially for women especially.
So,
you know,
when we started this blog adventures from the bedrooms of African women.
This is like,
what am I greatest flex?
(24:46):
It was the first blog of its type in the world the world talking about African Women.
Okay,
okay,
okay.
Alright,
okay.
Specifically African Women,
not just about the hotel's name,
another one.
Nobody can you cannot defy you neighbor one anyway.
(25:10):
But what I loved about doing this with you is how free and open you were to do that because I was not in a position to do that because I couldn't it wasn't envy.
It wasn't jealous,
it was a wistfulness.
I was like,
I wish I could like do this with you and be front and center and be present and everybody to know who I was as a co founder of the blog.
(25:32):
But I've always admired your bravery and your fearlessness and you're like,
this is who I am.
This is what I've come to say and fuck you if you've got something else to say about it.
But yeah,
I've also always admired you,
right?
Because you were doing this with me and we did it together.
(25:52):
It's just where I had my face out there.
Your face wasn't out there,
but people who knew you knew you were doing the break,
right?
And the reason why I admired you because in a sense,
as far as I was concerned,
it was easy for me to be public one.
I worked for a feminist organization too.
I was divorced and I owe no one anything you were and still are married to a deacon.
(26:18):
How this has been promoted to pasta.
How does a pastor's wife co found a blog about sex when we're talking about oral sex,
we're talking about sex outside of marriage.
We're talking about queer sex.
And so for me,
I always really admired because I don't know what I would have done.
(26:39):
I was married and married to a pastor,
you know,
so I think it's been incredible.
And yeah,
it's been great to do this with you.
And it's even better to be taking this to the next level.
And I have all the years ahead of me,
right?
Because further on in this season,
we speak to older women people has a forties,
fifties,
(26:59):
sixties,
hot sex.
And guys,
It only gets better.
It only gets better.
And this is why it's so important for us to do this because right now,
the conversation is still like in your thirties,
it'll be over for you in your 30s is when life truly begins as a woman and the sex does get better for most people,
(27:19):
I think.
But at least to all the women that we've spoken to and there's hope.
And I think that's what's been so terrible about the narrative is like after point X,
there's no more hope.
There's no more joy.
There's no more excitement.
There's nothing to look forward to.
And you will hear in this season,
there's much to look forward to with sex and aging.
What I would love to see in a society,
(27:43):
free minded society be that I could go to my grandma and ask grandma are you and grandpa having sex and that grandma would not be like embarrassed and and how you shocked or whatever,
because it's just like part of the life.
(28:09):
That's just a tiny appetizer of the kinds of conversations we will be having this season.
Think of it as the small chops in palm wine to wet your appetite.
Welcome to our bedrooms and the bedrooms of African women.
Thanks to all of you who follow the blog and the new listeners,
where have you been?
We're glad that you found us and we guarantee you maximum satisfaction as you enjoy the ride this season.
(28:36):
We're talking orgasms,
kinks.
The list is plenty,
we're learning,
we're loving,
we're listening and pleasuring here's to great sex.
(29:07):
The Adventures from the bedrooms of African Woman podcast is hosted by Malaka Grant and Nana Darkoa Sekyiamah, Freddie boswell is our senior producer.
Fatima Derby is our associate producer,
written by Wanna Udobang, audio editors are Mercy Barno.
and Tevin Sudi. Malaka Grant and Nana Darkoa are executive producers.
(29:30):
The Adventures from the bedrooms of African woman podcast is a production of AQ Studios in partnership with Masi Media.
MercyGithaiga is our studio administrator and Selly Thiam is the key studio CEO, follow us on all our social media that's at A.
Q Studios podcasts.
Our theme music is them performed by Ria Boss music from this episode comes from blue dot sessions.
(29:55):
Find adventures from the bedrooms of African women anywhere.
You get your podcasts and in the pursuit of all things sex,
sexuality and pleasure.
Follow us on all our social media platforms at adventures from.
Thanks for listening.
(30:16):
Goddamn!
She's so fly!
Goddamn!
She must die!
Goddamn!
With the Goddess!
Live!
She!
Everything!
You God damn,
so fly.
God damn.
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