August 1, 2022 • 30 mins
With society’s traditionally binary views on gender, so much of what it means to be a ‘man’ is tied to the omnipotent power and performance of the penis. So, when Malaka and Nana Darkoa decided to explore the topic of dicks and masculinity, they expected the usual ‘size matters’ arguments to come through.
But, they soon learned that BDE may not actually have much to do with what’s in your pants. This episode gets a surprising take from a range of cis and trans men, as well as a gender non-conforming person, as they share their fears and feelings about masculinity, performance, and pleasure.
Writer and poet Nii Ayikwei Parkes has some wise words for men and women whose sex lives center the D. “It's not a machine,” he says. “If that's what's going to define your happiness in a sexual encounter, then you are never going to be happy.”
Malaka Grant and Nana Darkoa Sekyiamah host the Adventures From the Bedrooms of African Women Podcast. Frederica Boswell is the Senior Producer. Fatima Derby is our Associate Producer. Written by Wana Udobang. Audio editors are Mercy Barno and Tevin Sudi. Malaka Grant and Nana Darkoa Sekyiamah are Executive Producers.
The Adventures From the Bedrooms of African Women Podcast is a production of AQ Studios in partnership with Masi Media. Mercy Githaiga is our studio administrator and Selly Thiam is the AQ Studios CEO.
Our theme music is Damn by Ria Boss and music from this episode comes from Bluedot Sessions.
Find Adventures From the Bedrooms of African Women anywhere you get your podcasts, and in pursuing all things sex, sexuality, and pleasure, follow us on all our social media platforms @adventuresfrom.
Engage with us on:
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:01):
size doesn't matter to me.
Like,
you can't just have a huge steak.
Like it has to come with their experience with the expectations that is needed.
You know,
like you're coming to give the full um the full package,
but not just like,
yeah,
I have a huge leg.
So that should be enough.
(00:23):
I've seen lots of penises because I went to boarding school and it's open showers,
but the general impression that I have is that like,
I'm fine.
So that means I'm either average or above average,
but I've seen bigger.
So look,
it packs light and it rises to the occasion.
(00:46):
I mean,
that's all you could ever ask of a good dick.
Sometimes the penis seems to be like a bird to have for me.
I feel like penises are just overrated and I mean it's cool,
but you know,
the clitoris has twice the number of nerve endings that penis has,
its not as pleasurable an instrument as it seems like people make it out to be okay before you collectively grown.
(01:19):
Not another conversation about penises,
let's be real.
We can't have a first season of this podcast without going below the belt.
(01:46):
Welcome to Adventures from the bedrooms of African Women.
My name is and I'm your girl malika Grant.
Yes,
this episode is all about dicks and masculinity.
It's inspired by all the posts on our adventures blog about penis size and performance.
Let me just say when we started off exploring dicks in this episode,
(02:06):
we thought we knew,
I mean between nana and I,
we believed we had enough experience under our waist beads.
But alas,
we had no idea.
So,
I'm glad we're having this conversation.
I think the interest in Dix is because in our conservative society with its binary views on gender,
so much of what it means to be a man in terms of identity is tied to the penis.
(02:30):
To be quite honest.
For as long as we've known,
the penis has been the holy grail of manhood.
I totally agree the symbol of strength,
virility and of course,
power.
In order to impact this.
We talked to Cis and trans men as well as a gender nonconforming person about their relationships with their penises and strap ons to get a sense of the fears and feelings they have and to bust up some notions about masculinity bust up.
(03:04):
So strap up because in this episode we are diving right in and as you know,
nana took her role seriously as our girl in the streets to get all the juice,
wow,
my like,
just wow,
strap die even street juice.
You really outdid yourself there.
(03:26):
I'm really trying to be sorry,
but I'm not,
I'm really proud of myself.
I'm always proud of you too,
baby.
I'm very protective of my penis.
We have a great relationship and like I say,
I say to him all the time,
you're good.
I mean,
(03:47):
look,
it does what I needed to do.
I can pee,
I can I can enjoy myself,
I can masturbate.
I can have babies.
I mean what else do I want from it?
Nia Parks is a writer,
editor,
producer and as he describes himself a general dreamer.
His healthy attitude to his penis goes back to his childhood.
(04:08):
We were very unselfconscious,
we played around naked,
we run around the house naked.
I mean quite frankly we had parents who used to walk around the house.
Naked nakedness was not a big deal,
but I also realized our family was unconventional.
You know,
you knew my father,
so he was not your typical Ghanaian man and I am certainly not your typical Ghanaian man.
I remember nice dad fondly and he definitely wasn't a stereotypical Ghanaian man.
(04:35):
But what does that mean?
Actually just the whole notion of just the way people approach women,
all of that stuff.
Because I was told very early the importance of consent and the importance of pleasure for women and stuff like that.
So I didn't grow up with the mythology of oh you're gonna break somebody type of thing.
(04:57):
I mean growing up for us,
women,
sex education was encapsulated in one sentence.
If a boy touches you,
you will get pregnant.
And so you know anything about our sexual awareness went down there from there in many ways.
Our vaginas were a curse from the gods.
That could cause our lives to end at any sudden moment,
(05:20):
once compromised by an unsuspecting penis.
So I wanted to know when he was told about the importance of pleasure when he was child.
I think when I was about eight or something like that,
when we first started to talk about sex a lot,
my father just said to us,
if you ever want to have sex,
(05:40):
come and ask me for condoms,
I think that was psychological,
you know,
play with him because we were put off the idea for about four years straight,
because the whole idea that you would have to go and ask your father for a condom and have this premeditated part was just it was too much,
(06:01):
you know,
But at that point you also said,
you have to understand that sexual intercourse is not just about ejaculation,
you know,
you you're supposed to have fun because a lot of people taught sex as a way to have Children,
but we certainly went towards that my male bestie co owner and Kumar Graham,
(06:22):
a writer DJ and lecturer,
also remembers when he became aware of the pleasures of sex and started to connect that to his penis.
It wasn't until secondary school that I remember thinking a lot more about kind of penis and pleasure and masturbation and sexuality and all of those kinds of things.
(06:45):
I remember the first time I came,
I actually remember that,
and then I also remember um starting to be actually aroused by certain images.
So I remember there was a picture that Madonna had once where she was serving her breasts on a tray and I remember that doing it for me back then and kind of humping my bed to that picture.
(07:13):
Yeah,
so I I guess it's around secondary school that I started to associate my penis with pleasure,
a pleasure tool.
I like the sound of that.
I know right,
but near equal packs once against thinking it's the only tool when it comes to sex.
Well,
I mean,
sexual encounter is not just about penetration.
(07:35):
You know,
one of the things I say to any young man who comes and asks me about it is you have to remember this is a whole big body that you're trying to pleasure.
And if you think your little dick is what's going to do all of that,
then you are misguided.
(07:56):
And so it's not something I worry about unless the person is so intent on you have to be inside me,
then I don't see that as a problem because also you have to understand that you know,
dick as much as people might think it is,
it's not a machine,
right?
If you're not in the right mood,
if you're not in the right space,
you just might be on some emotional journey that doesn't allow you and you have to be able to embrace that.
(08:20):
But if that's what's going to define your happiness in a sexual encounter,
then you're never gonna be happy.
I'm not a very big fan of using my penis halfway,
a creative director and writer who describes themselves as an artist says that most of the people they have sex with our heterosexual women,
(08:44):
I identify as non binary,
but I understand especially because of where we are,
that I will be read as a man coming into their identity as a gender.
Nonconforming person,
caffrey finds traditional preconceptions can get in the way there's the idea that sex happens to a woman.
(09:07):
And um,
I find myself often not necessarily wanting it that way,
just because to me it's it ends up ruining the sexual experience for me when it seems like that's their goal.
Whereas there's a lot of things that are considered for a play that I find extremely gratifying,
(09:31):
but other people would say oral sex,
for example,
doesn't constitute sex.
So it's all leading up to,
and that's something I find uncomfortable.
And um once I realize I'm in a situation where that is the case,
I sort of find myself tuning out because then it means we're not really enjoying everything else enjoying the process.
(09:54):
And there's a,
there's a goal,
I think of what people call foreplay as main play.
Like this is the more fun part of things I wish more people felt like they didn't need to rush through it,
caffrey says some partners react pretty badly when they realized the d is not necessarily going to come out to play in a sexual encounter.
(10:18):
I was making out with somebody and I thought it was going really well,
it seemed like it was going really well for the person as well.
And then there was a movement towards my penis and I just mentioned that,
oh,
I don't think that I'd be comfortable with that,
at least in that moment.
It wasn't the kind of thing.
The person said,
(10:38):
the person basically said,
what do I mean,
and what's the point of us continuing if that's not,
what's going to happen?
I'm like,
oh,
I mean,
that can happen,
but just not right now.
And I think they took it personally,
they thought they were doing something wrong and I was just trying to explain that that wasn't what was happening.
And it moved from them thinking of doing something wrong to them,
(10:58):
basically saying there's something wrong with me.
Well,
it's taken some time,
but cafe is now upfront about sexual expectations.
Now,
I have those conversations,
they are uncomfortable sometimes,
but I think their conversations to be had before.
I did not,
I wasn't as confident in who I who I am now and I just always felt like I had to play the role.
(11:25):
Um,
but I must admit I am,
how do I put this?
I was always looking for what I was,
what would make me useful to people and at the time it seemed like,
oh,
if you are able to use your penis properly,
um you would have use in whatever encounters that you have.
So there there are people who I have had interactions with,
(11:47):
who did not know and it's not their fault,
it's me not saying.
And they're having,
you know,
obviously they have the assumptions,
you know,
most people with penises will want to have penetrative sex and I didn't say anything at the time because it's,
I found myself thinking,
okay,
that made me useful,
but in recent times I have been more vocal about it.
(12:08):
Um,
it's a,
it's sometimes an uncomfortable situation to have when you are talking to heterosexual women.
Um,
it's an easier conversation to have.
I found talking to queer women.
Um,
or people who identify as queer non binary folk.
Just,
I find that people who are in the,
in the community and that community are more understanding.
(12:30):
Yeah.
So I have that conversation now caffrey's relationship with their penis goes back to boarding school when they even had a nickname.
So in my house,
I was called L.
D.
Um which I found out later was short for long dick To me,
(12:51):
I didn't see why that was the case,
but I guess,
um,
you know,
being in the bathroom with people with penises,
I would bathe and I would peep.
Then I would understand.
So yeah,
it's almost impossible to discuss penises without talking about sizes.
(13:16):
And comparisons a question women are often asked,
is that ubiquitous does size really matter.
Well,
this time around the men get to give us their view.
I typically don't like huge digs.
Its a lot of work,
like a lot.
Yeah,
because sometimes you don't even know what to do with it.
(13:37):
This is mo an LGBT rights activist from Ghana.
And mostly men with huge digs,
they don't even know how to use it.
They don't,
So,
it makes it very messy the whole encounter.
So,
yeah,
I have an oath against huge days,
so no,
no,
and it hurts.
(13:58):
Yeah,
no matter how lubed up you are,
it's it's really hard.
I think it takes a lot of energy and strength and I don't have that.
And rightfully so my brother pleasure,
not pain,
nana,
also got into it with her bestie cabana.
How do you feel about the size of your penis?
(14:20):
Because I feel like on adventures,
this is a really popular topic,
right?
Um,
for some people,
sorry,
when I say for some people,
usually,
this has been like opinions expressed by women contributors.
You know,
um,
size is really important to get this important land is important.
I'm wondering,
how do you feel about the size of your penis?
(14:42):
And have you ever,
like,
compared the size of your penis to other to other men or boys?
So,
my late younger brother had a bigger penis than me,
and I remember this from,
I think I must have been in sixth form,
and he was in fifth form and we're sharing a room and we're boys and I've never thought myself small,
(15:07):
but his penis is definitely bigger than mine.
And so it's not the type of thing that comes up in conversation,
but then it's definitely something that comes up in the imagination when like the daughter,
his room is closed and he's in there with his girlfriend and I'm hearing pleasure coming out of the room.
Um yeah,
(15:28):
so I think that was the first time I compared sizes with anybody.
And how do you feel when you see bigger,
do you think,
Oh,
I wish I had a bigger dick.
Not necessarily,
I have empathy.
So I've seen bigger before and it really depends on the penis.
I can think of one person updated in particular who I can't quite explain it,
(15:51):
but I think my penis was the perfect size for her vagina and she would respond accordingly in a way that I have never seen anything like that in any relationship before,
after I suppose as one grows older and becomes more self aware,
(16:12):
size really isn't everything.
And perhaps once masculinity isn't so attached to the opinions or its size copy shares his thoughts.
There's this article that keeps floating to the top of the BBC's most read thing once every couple of years about how indian men are supposedly they have the smallest sizes in the world.
(16:34):
And I've always reflected about that because I'm kind of like,
so then maybe that's why they have the kamasutra.
And so they don't seem to have any problems in that department because you literally have this like manual of pleasure and so maybe it's not simply to do with size but if you could buy your own penis,
what size would it be malika?
(16:56):
Did you know that a strap on can fill you nana?
How it's a strap one,
you control it.
I mean how well JL and african american,
trans man and activist has some advice from his first strap on experience,
which he says wasn't great Ship.
The first like some cheap knockoff shit,
(17:17):
I was like 14 or something 13.
Some cheap knockoff something you see at one of the adult stores like in San Francisco just barely worked,
you had to pretty much hold it together and tied it and not on the side and hold the Dick with your hand.
Um but shit at that age you were trying to do what you need to do to make it happen for you.
(17:40):
So it works.
But now I would say um if I was to give advice to someone,
it would be like to buy something that fits secure for you that can be washed on a regular basis.
So something that can either be washed by hand,
never dried in the machine.
Um If it's leather then you need to get leather cleaning kits to properly clean it correctly.
(18:01):
Um But for me the most comfortable is like a fabric that can be washed and cleaned and that's sturdy and also be flexible to like changing their sizes.
So for the purposes of this particular episode,
we're thinking of Dixon expensive ways.
So with that understanding in mind,
what does it mean to you to have a dick?
(18:23):
It's more than just like standing to piss or like the power that comes behind,
you know,
being born with the dick.
It's more like I'm seeing it as like a tool of engagement.
Pleasure,
have fun.
Um all those type of things less of um this whole,
(18:47):
I need to have all that much cheese mode.
To me that's not important as a feminist.
Like it doesn't even come into my mind of like possibilities.
So to me it's all about pleasure,
economic playing.
Um all the good things that come about it.
So that's for me if we're talking about the D.
And nearly quit packs also takes the view that it's time to dissenter,
(19:10):
the D.
In general,
which is what we've been saying for a while,
like our very first live festival was called the center.
I say this to people,
I think that if that's all you're going to think about,
then your sex life is gonna be impoverished,
right?
(19:31):
And you know,
I think,
I think this is why some men are so hostile towards lesbians for instance,
because they think that their dick is the magic stick of sex.
It's like if there's no dick,
then there's no sex and I think it's actually harmful to teach kids that sex is penetration,
(19:53):
because a lot of sexual abuse doesn't get reported just because people think if there's no penetration,
there's no sex.
Um,
you know,
so there's there's a whole lot of problematic issues that goal hand in hand with centering the dick all the time.
Talking about dicks and masculinity sparks need to reflect on a difficult personal experience.
(20:15):
I was once um sexually assaulted by a man,
right?
And um I remember started to ask the questions that sometimes I now realize that women must ask themselves when,
you know,
people make unwanted advances on them,
because I started asking myself if I had done something to attract it,
it was my fault,
(20:36):
and those kinds of things can make you question what masculinity is,
because my first reaction was I was gonna beat him up,
right?
And then I stopped myself because I'm like,
what does it prove if I beat him up?
It doesn't do anything but in the aftermath.
And for years,
you know,
I did ask myself what I did to kind of attract that if I was not masculine enough,
(21:00):
but this is all kind of within the construct of masculinity.
Because as I was asking myself the question,
I was also remembering that I was raised by a father who taught me to cry.
So it's like,
what masculinity are you trying to aspire to and why should this event make you question everything in your life.
Thank you for sharing that with me.
(21:20):
And he says that as an african man living in London,
the way he thinks about his own masculinity shifts in different spaces.
I always say to people,
you know,
when I fly to Ghana and I step off the plane,
I literally feel a weight lift because I don't have to ask myself as many questions when I'm walking down the road and and that's just the reality.
(21:42):
You know,
I I'm not a particularly big man,
but when I walk down the street,
I can see that people perceive me as a threat.
And it's something that I've been conscious of since I came back to England as a as a student.
Um I'm also conscious that,
you know,
in terms of even sexual partners sometimes,
(22:02):
you know,
you meet somebody in a bar and the way they perceive you is a particular way,
and you have to kind of deconstruct that um or disassemble it before things move beyond just talking because that can come with its own problems.
Sometimes you're you think you're in a relationship and you're actually being a trophy in a way that that would not happen in Ghana,
(22:28):
you know?
So there are all kinds of little things that come into play because Masculinity is not just what you are and how you perceive yourself.
It's how society perceives you,
and I think black males in the West are Masculinity is heightened just by the fact of our skin color whether we want it or not.
(22:50):
And a part of that heightened masculinity is an expectation that black men are good in bed.
Something I have heard amongst my male friends a lot is the dreaded performance anxiety.
Like,
basically dick don't fail me now.
And as much as I'm stifling a giggle,
it is also a very sensitive topic.
As always nana was up to the task with the intimate line of questioning with her BFF.
(23:14):
I wanna know.
Have you ever or rather not?
Have you ever,
because I feel like this must happen to like,
lots of guys,
But what do you do if you're having sex with someone and you can't get hard or you can't maintain it had on,
um that's actually happened to me before.
I can think of a few times actually,
(23:35):
the first time in particular,
she talked a very good game.
And so I remember feeling a little intimidated by her and so we're in her room.
And like,
one thing leads to another long story short,
but then like,
(23:56):
my dick is just like,
no,
I've checked out,
I'm going on holiday,
call me when you're done.
And so I'm looking at the thing?
Like,
are you serious right now?
Like now of all times?
And so I'm panicking,
which isn't making things any better and she's trying to calm me down.
(24:18):
And if I remember correctly,
it takes maybe another,
I think in her case,
maybe the third time is when things kind of go back to normal and it's I think I just needed to not feel intimidated.
I wouldn't have thought that performance anxiety was such a regular and normal thing.
(24:41):
It totally is a regular normal thing.
I can say this with confidence as a woman who has found herself more than once on the opposite end of olympic.
Yeah.
Equip packs have some wise words for anyone feeling the pressure to perform.
I love your dicks,
but don't think that that they have to do all the work for you.
(25:04):
You know,
I honestly like look at that huge body,
you want to pleasure and you want to use your dick.
It's like painting a house with a paint brush,
toothbrush,
toothbrush.
Yeah.
When I say paintbrush,
I mean the kind you use for art in school are the little ones.
Yeah.
(25:32):
Our guests on this episode have been funny,
illuminating open and honest.
I'm feeling like quite the Dickinson now.
No,
but all jokes aside what's really stayed with me in terms of all of the conversations we've had is how they don't think of their penises as the center of attention.
(25:52):
You know,
I need and want sex to be more than about the D and it's been hard woman to speak with men and people with penises who also think the same because that's definitely not like the dominant narrative,
right?
So it makes me excited for the future,
and that exactly goes back to what many people in this episode spoke about and how they felt about their penises and expressed how little it has to do with their masculinity.
(26:22):
Most summed it up when we asked him what his dick had to do with being a man.
Not much,
actually,
not much what is a man is is a construct as we all know,
not all of us,
but some of us now,
so it's it's not really about the dick,
you know,
it's about what you do,
you know what you fulfill and um there's a lot of stereotypes when it comes to men and the most disturbing part is those who believe in the whole alpha male thing,
(26:52):
it's,
wow,
it's just so crazy.
But yeah,
a man is just supposed to be part of the world,
not to be a head of the household or something,
just live and be with whoever and with no expectations,
like,
you know,
(27:13):
just forge what a man is by your own self,
instead of like,
maybe following,
because it's quite scary to me how straight men are ok with just like um pointed their lives are laid out like 22 you're supposed to start looking for a girlfriend at 25 then you can get married at 30 you have like two kids And I have to work and now at 4G you're supposed to have a house and know that is so much work for me,
(27:45):
I am 30 now and I don't see myself.
I don't know even marriage is a thing for me.
I don't,
it's a whole thing I need to come into so yeah,
a man is just supposed to be whoever he wants to be,
yeah,
(28:14):
be whoever you want to be.
No better way to conclude.
I hope you have enjoyed this episode of the Adventures podcast as much as we did,
making it until we return with another titillating episode where we discuss sex,
pleasure and everything else in between.
Stay coming charlie,
(28:35):
that's supposed to be my line,
can I steal your line from time to time charlie.
Have we ever shared Dick?
Maybe we can share lines?
I don't know,
I mean we were testing the adventures from the bedrooms of African woman podcast is hosted by malika Grant and another course,
Freddie boswell is a senior producer.
(28:57):
Fatima Derby is our associate producer written by wanna use audio edits his our mercy Barno and kevin study malika Grant and another co shtm are executive producers.
The adventures from the bedrooms of African woman podcast is a production of studios in partnership with the media is our studio administrator and is the studio ceo follow us on all our social media,
(29:26):
that's our studios podcasts,
our theme music is performed by real boss music from this episode comes from epidemic sounds,
find adventures from the bedrooms of African women anywhere,
you get your podcasts and in the pursuit of all things sex,
sexuality and pleasure.
Follow us on all our social media platforms at adventures from.
(29:50):
Thanks for listening.
Fly!
Goddamn!
She might die goddamn!
With the goddess life,
she everything.
size doesn't matter to me.
Like,
you can't just have a huge steak.
Like it has to come with their experience with the expectations that is needed.
You know,
like you're coming to give the full um the full package,
but not just like,
yeah,
I have a huge leg.
So that should be enough.
(00:23):
I've seen lots of penises because I went to boarding school and it's open showers,
but the general impression that I have is that like,
I'm fine.
So that means I'm either average or above average,
but I've seen bigger.
So look,
it packs light and it rises to the occasion.
(00:46):
I mean,
that's all you could ever ask of a good dick.
Sometimes the penis seems to be like a bird to have for me.
I feel like penises are just overrated and I mean it's cool,
but you know,
the clitoris has twice the number of nerve endings that penis has,
its not as pleasurable an instrument as it seems like people make it out to be okay before you collectively grown.
(01:19):
Not another conversation about penises,
let's be real.
We can't have a first season of this podcast without going below the belt.
(01:46):
Welcome to Adventures from the bedrooms of African Women.
My name is and I'm your girl malika Grant.
Yes,
this episode is all about dicks and masculinity.
It's inspired by all the posts on our adventures blog about penis size and performance.
Let me just say when we started off exploring dicks in this episode,
(02:06):
we thought we knew,
I mean between nana and I,
we believed we had enough experience under our waist beads.
But alas,
we had no idea.
So,
I'm glad we're having this conversation.
I think the interest in Dix is because in our conservative society with its binary views on gender,
so much of what it means to be a man in terms of identity is tied to the penis.
(02:30):
To be quite honest.
For as long as we've known,
the penis has been the holy grail of manhood.
I totally agree the symbol of strength,
virility and of course,
power.
In order to impact this.
We talked to Cis and trans men as well as a gender nonconforming person about their relationships with their penises and strap ons to get a sense of the fears and feelings they have and to bust up some notions about masculinity bust up.
(03:04):
So strap up because in this episode we are diving right in and as you know,
nana took her role seriously as our girl in the streets to get all the juice,
wow,
my like,
just wow,
strap die even street juice.
You really outdid yourself there.
(03:26):
I'm really trying to be sorry,
but I'm not,
I'm really proud of myself.
I'm always proud of you too,
baby.
I'm very protective of my penis.
We have a great relationship and like I say,
I say to him all the time,
you're good.
I mean,
(03:47):
look,
it does what I needed to do.
I can pee,
I can I can enjoy myself,
I can masturbate.
I can have babies.
I mean what else do I want from it?
Nia Parks is a writer,
editor,
producer and as he describes himself a general dreamer.
His healthy attitude to his penis goes back to his childhood.
(04:08):
We were very unselfconscious,
we played around naked,
we run around the house naked.
I mean quite frankly we had parents who used to walk around the house.
Naked nakedness was not a big deal,
but I also realized our family was unconventional.
You know,
you knew my father,
so he was not your typical Ghanaian man and I am certainly not your typical Ghanaian man.
I remember nice dad fondly and he definitely wasn't a stereotypical Ghanaian man.
(04:35):
But what does that mean?
Actually just the whole notion of just the way people approach women,
all of that stuff.
Because I was told very early the importance of consent and the importance of pleasure for women and stuff like that.
So I didn't grow up with the mythology of oh you're gonna break somebody type of thing.
(04:57):
I mean growing up for us,
women,
sex education was encapsulated in one sentence.
If a boy touches you,
you will get pregnant.
And so you know anything about our sexual awareness went down there from there in many ways.
Our vaginas were a curse from the gods.
That could cause our lives to end at any sudden moment,
(05:20):
once compromised by an unsuspecting penis.
So I wanted to know when he was told about the importance of pleasure when he was child.
I think when I was about eight or something like that,
when we first started to talk about sex a lot,
my father just said to us,
if you ever want to have sex,
(05:40):
come and ask me for condoms,
I think that was psychological,
you know,
play with him because we were put off the idea for about four years straight,
because the whole idea that you would have to go and ask your father for a condom and have this premeditated part was just it was too much,
(06:01):
you know,
But at that point you also said,
you have to understand that sexual intercourse is not just about ejaculation,
you know,
you you're supposed to have fun because a lot of people taught sex as a way to have Children,
but we certainly went towards that my male bestie co owner and Kumar Graham,
(06:22):
a writer DJ and lecturer,
also remembers when he became aware of the pleasures of sex and started to connect that to his penis.
It wasn't until secondary school that I remember thinking a lot more about kind of penis and pleasure and masturbation and sexuality and all of those kinds of things.
(06:45):
I remember the first time I came,
I actually remember that,
and then I also remember um starting to be actually aroused by certain images.
So I remember there was a picture that Madonna had once where she was serving her breasts on a tray and I remember that doing it for me back then and kind of humping my bed to that picture.
(07:13):
Yeah,
so I I guess it's around secondary school that I started to associate my penis with pleasure,
a pleasure tool.
I like the sound of that.
I know right,
but near equal packs once against thinking it's the only tool when it comes to sex.
Well,
I mean,
sexual encounter is not just about penetration.
(07:35):
You know,
one of the things I say to any young man who comes and asks me about it is you have to remember this is a whole big body that you're trying to pleasure.
And if you think your little dick is what's going to do all of that,
then you are misguided.
(07:56):
And so it's not something I worry about unless the person is so intent on you have to be inside me,
then I don't see that as a problem because also you have to understand that you know,
dick as much as people might think it is,
it's not a machine,
right?
If you're not in the right mood,
if you're not in the right space,
you just might be on some emotional journey that doesn't allow you and you have to be able to embrace that.
(08:20):
But if that's what's going to define your happiness in a sexual encounter,
then you're never gonna be happy.
I'm not a very big fan of using my penis halfway,
a creative director and writer who describes themselves as an artist says that most of the people they have sex with our heterosexual women,
(08:44):
I identify as non binary,
but I understand especially because of where we are,
that I will be read as a man coming into their identity as a gender.
Nonconforming person,
caffrey finds traditional preconceptions can get in the way there's the idea that sex happens to a woman.
(09:07):
And um,
I find myself often not necessarily wanting it that way,
just because to me it's it ends up ruining the sexual experience for me when it seems like that's their goal.
Whereas there's a lot of things that are considered for a play that I find extremely gratifying,
(09:31):
but other people would say oral sex,
for example,
doesn't constitute sex.
So it's all leading up to,
and that's something I find uncomfortable.
And um once I realize I'm in a situation where that is the case,
I sort of find myself tuning out because then it means we're not really enjoying everything else enjoying the process.
(09:54):
And there's a,
there's a goal,
I think of what people call foreplay as main play.
Like this is the more fun part of things I wish more people felt like they didn't need to rush through it,
caffrey says some partners react pretty badly when they realized the d is not necessarily going to come out to play in a sexual encounter.
(10:18):
I was making out with somebody and I thought it was going really well,
it seemed like it was going really well for the person as well.
And then there was a movement towards my penis and I just mentioned that,
oh,
I don't think that I'd be comfortable with that,
at least in that moment.
It wasn't the kind of thing.
The person said,
(10:38):
the person basically said,
what do I mean,
and what's the point of us continuing if that's not,
what's going to happen?
I'm like,
oh,
I mean,
that can happen,
but just not right now.
And I think they took it personally,
they thought they were doing something wrong and I was just trying to explain that that wasn't what was happening.
And it moved from them thinking of doing something wrong to them,
(10:58):
basically saying there's something wrong with me.
Well,
it's taken some time,
but cafe is now upfront about sexual expectations.
Now,
I have those conversations,
they are uncomfortable sometimes,
but I think their conversations to be had before.
I did not,
I wasn't as confident in who I who I am now and I just always felt like I had to play the role.
(11:25):
Um,
but I must admit I am,
how do I put this?
I was always looking for what I was,
what would make me useful to people and at the time it seemed like,
oh,
if you are able to use your penis properly,
um you would have use in whatever encounters that you have.
So there there are people who I have had interactions with,
(11:47):
who did not know and it's not their fault,
it's me not saying.
And they're having,
you know,
obviously they have the assumptions,
you know,
most people with penises will want to have penetrative sex and I didn't say anything at the time because it's,
I found myself thinking,
okay,
that made me useful,
but in recent times I have been more vocal about it.
(12:08):
Um,
it's a,
it's sometimes an uncomfortable situation to have when you are talking to heterosexual women.
Um,
it's an easier conversation to have.
I found talking to queer women.
Um,
or people who identify as queer non binary folk.
Just,
I find that people who are in the,
in the community and that community are more understanding.
(12:30):
Yeah.
So I have that conversation now caffrey's relationship with their penis goes back to boarding school when they even had a nickname.
So in my house,
I was called L.
D.
Um which I found out later was short for long dick To me,
(12:51):
I didn't see why that was the case,
but I guess,
um,
you know,
being in the bathroom with people with penises,
I would bathe and I would peep.
Then I would understand.
So yeah,
it's almost impossible to discuss penises without talking about sizes.
(13:16):
And comparisons a question women are often asked,
is that ubiquitous does size really matter.
Well,
this time around the men get to give us their view.
I typically don't like huge digs.
Its a lot of work,
like a lot.
Yeah,
because sometimes you don't even know what to do with it.
(13:37):
This is mo an LGBT rights activist from Ghana.
And mostly men with huge digs,
they don't even know how to use it.
They don't,
So,
it makes it very messy the whole encounter.
So,
yeah,
I have an oath against huge days,
so no,
no,
and it hurts.
(13:58):
Yeah,
no matter how lubed up you are,
it's it's really hard.
I think it takes a lot of energy and strength and I don't have that.
And rightfully so my brother pleasure,
not pain,
nana,
also got into it with her bestie cabana.
How do you feel about the size of your penis?
(14:20):
Because I feel like on adventures,
this is a really popular topic,
right?
Um,
for some people,
sorry,
when I say for some people,
usually,
this has been like opinions expressed by women contributors.
You know,
um,
size is really important to get this important land is important.
I'm wondering,
how do you feel about the size of your penis?
(14:42):
And have you ever,
like,
compared the size of your penis to other to other men or boys?
So,
my late younger brother had a bigger penis than me,
and I remember this from,
I think I must have been in sixth form,
and he was in fifth form and we're sharing a room and we're boys and I've never thought myself small,
(15:07):
but his penis is definitely bigger than mine.
And so it's not the type of thing that comes up in conversation,
but then it's definitely something that comes up in the imagination when like the daughter,
his room is closed and he's in there with his girlfriend and I'm hearing pleasure coming out of the room.
Um yeah,
(15:28):
so I think that was the first time I compared sizes with anybody.
And how do you feel when you see bigger,
do you think,
Oh,
I wish I had a bigger dick.
Not necessarily,
I have empathy.
So I've seen bigger before and it really depends on the penis.
I can think of one person updated in particular who I can't quite explain it,
(15:51):
but I think my penis was the perfect size for her vagina and she would respond accordingly in a way that I have never seen anything like that in any relationship before,
after I suppose as one grows older and becomes more self aware,
(16:12):
size really isn't everything.
And perhaps once masculinity isn't so attached to the opinions or its size copy shares his thoughts.
There's this article that keeps floating to the top of the BBC's most read thing once every couple of years about how indian men are supposedly they have the smallest sizes in the world.
(16:34):
And I've always reflected about that because I'm kind of like,
so then maybe that's why they have the kamasutra.
And so they don't seem to have any problems in that department because you literally have this like manual of pleasure and so maybe it's not simply to do with size but if you could buy your own penis,
what size would it be malika?
(16:56):
Did you know that a strap on can fill you nana?
How it's a strap one,
you control it.
I mean how well JL and african american,
trans man and activist has some advice from his first strap on experience,
which he says wasn't great Ship.
The first like some cheap knockoff shit,
(17:17):
I was like 14 or something 13.
Some cheap knockoff something you see at one of the adult stores like in San Francisco just barely worked,
you had to pretty much hold it together and tied it and not on the side and hold the Dick with your hand.
Um but shit at that age you were trying to do what you need to do to make it happen for you.
(17:40):
So it works.
But now I would say um if I was to give advice to someone,
it would be like to buy something that fits secure for you that can be washed on a regular basis.
So something that can either be washed by hand,
never dried in the machine.
Um If it's leather then you need to get leather cleaning kits to properly clean it correctly.
(18:01):
Um But for me the most comfortable is like a fabric that can be washed and cleaned and that's sturdy and also be flexible to like changing their sizes.
So for the purposes of this particular episode,
we're thinking of Dixon expensive ways.
So with that understanding in mind,
what does it mean to you to have a dick?
(18:23):
It's more than just like standing to piss or like the power that comes behind,
you know,
being born with the dick.
It's more like I'm seeing it as like a tool of engagement.
Pleasure,
have fun.
Um all those type of things less of um this whole,
(18:47):
I need to have all that much cheese mode.
To me that's not important as a feminist.
Like it doesn't even come into my mind of like possibilities.
So to me it's all about pleasure,
economic playing.
Um all the good things that come about it.
So that's for me if we're talking about the D.
And nearly quit packs also takes the view that it's time to dissenter,
(19:10):
the D.
In general,
which is what we've been saying for a while,
like our very first live festival was called the center.
I say this to people,
I think that if that's all you're going to think about,
then your sex life is gonna be impoverished,
right?
(19:31):
And you know,
I think,
I think this is why some men are so hostile towards lesbians for instance,
because they think that their dick is the magic stick of sex.
It's like if there's no dick,
then there's no sex and I think it's actually harmful to teach kids that sex is penetration,
(19:53):
because a lot of sexual abuse doesn't get reported just because people think if there's no penetration,
there's no sex.
Um,
you know,
so there's there's a whole lot of problematic issues that goal hand in hand with centering the dick all the time.
Talking about dicks and masculinity sparks need to reflect on a difficult personal experience.
(20:15):
I was once um sexually assaulted by a man,
right?
And um I remember started to ask the questions that sometimes I now realize that women must ask themselves when,
you know,
people make unwanted advances on them,
because I started asking myself if I had done something to attract it,
it was my fault,
(20:36):
and those kinds of things can make you question what masculinity is,
because my first reaction was I was gonna beat him up,
right?
And then I stopped myself because I'm like,
what does it prove if I beat him up?
It doesn't do anything but in the aftermath.
And for years,
you know,
I did ask myself what I did to kind of attract that if I was not masculine enough,
(21:00):
but this is all kind of within the construct of masculinity.
Because as I was asking myself the question,
I was also remembering that I was raised by a father who taught me to cry.
So it's like,
what masculinity are you trying to aspire to and why should this event make you question everything in your life.
Thank you for sharing that with me.
(21:20):
And he says that as an african man living in London,
the way he thinks about his own masculinity shifts in different spaces.
I always say to people,
you know,
when I fly to Ghana and I step off the plane,
I literally feel a weight lift because I don't have to ask myself as many questions when I'm walking down the road and and that's just the reality.
(21:42):
You know,
I I'm not a particularly big man,
but when I walk down the street,
I can see that people perceive me as a threat.
And it's something that I've been conscious of since I came back to England as a as a student.
Um I'm also conscious that,
you know,
in terms of even sexual partners sometimes,
(22:02):
you know,
you meet somebody in a bar and the way they perceive you is a particular way,
and you have to kind of deconstruct that um or disassemble it before things move beyond just talking because that can come with its own problems.
Sometimes you're you think you're in a relationship and you're actually being a trophy in a way that that would not happen in Ghana,
(22:28):
you know?
So there are all kinds of little things that come into play because Masculinity is not just what you are and how you perceive yourself.
It's how society perceives you,
and I think black males in the West are Masculinity is heightened just by the fact of our skin color whether we want it or not.
(22:50):
And a part of that heightened masculinity is an expectation that black men are good in bed.
Something I have heard amongst my male friends a lot is the dreaded performance anxiety.
Like,
basically dick don't fail me now.
And as much as I'm stifling a giggle,
it is also a very sensitive topic.
As always nana was up to the task with the intimate line of questioning with her BFF.
(23:14):
I wanna know.
Have you ever or rather not?
Have you ever,
because I feel like this must happen to like,
lots of guys,
But what do you do if you're having sex with someone and you can't get hard or you can't maintain it had on,
um that's actually happened to me before.
I can think of a few times actually,
(23:35):
the first time in particular,
she talked a very good game.
And so I remember feeling a little intimidated by her and so we're in her room.
And like,
one thing leads to another long story short,
but then like,
(23:56):
my dick is just like,
no,
I've checked out,
I'm going on holiday,
call me when you're done.
And so I'm looking at the thing?
Like,
are you serious right now?
Like now of all times?
And so I'm panicking,
which isn't making things any better and she's trying to calm me down.
(24:18):
And if I remember correctly,
it takes maybe another,
I think in her case,
maybe the third time is when things kind of go back to normal and it's I think I just needed to not feel intimidated.
I wouldn't have thought that performance anxiety was such a regular and normal thing.
(24:41):
It totally is a regular normal thing.
I can say this with confidence as a woman who has found herself more than once on the opposite end of olympic.
Yeah.
Equip packs have some wise words for anyone feeling the pressure to perform.
I love your dicks,
but don't think that that they have to do all the work for you.
(25:04):
You know,
I honestly like look at that huge body,
you want to pleasure and you want to use your dick.
It's like painting a house with a paint brush,
toothbrush,
toothbrush.
Yeah.
When I say paintbrush,
I mean the kind you use for art in school are the little ones.
Yeah.
(25:32):
Our guests on this episode have been funny,
illuminating open and honest.
I'm feeling like quite the Dickinson now.
No,
but all jokes aside what's really stayed with me in terms of all of the conversations we've had is how they don't think of their penises as the center of attention.
(25:52):
You know,
I need and want sex to be more than about the D and it's been hard woman to speak with men and people with penises who also think the same because that's definitely not like the dominant narrative,
right?
So it makes me excited for the future,
and that exactly goes back to what many people in this episode spoke about and how they felt about their penises and expressed how little it has to do with their masculinity.
(26:22):
Most summed it up when we asked him what his dick had to do with being a man.
Not much,
actually,
not much what is a man is is a construct as we all know,
not all of us,
but some of us now,
so it's it's not really about the dick,
you know,
it's about what you do,
you know what you fulfill and um there's a lot of stereotypes when it comes to men and the most disturbing part is those who believe in the whole alpha male thing,
(26:52):
it's,
wow,
it's just so crazy.
But yeah,
a man is just supposed to be part of the world,
not to be a head of the household or something,
just live and be with whoever and with no expectations,
like,
you know,
(27:13):
just forge what a man is by your own self,
instead of like,
maybe following,
because it's quite scary to me how straight men are ok with just like um pointed their lives are laid out like 22 you're supposed to start looking for a girlfriend at 25 then you can get married at 30 you have like two kids And I have to work and now at 4G you're supposed to have a house and know that is so much work for me,
(27:45):
I am 30 now and I don't see myself.
I don't know even marriage is a thing for me.
I don't,
it's a whole thing I need to come into so yeah,
a man is just supposed to be whoever he wants to be,
yeah,
(28:14):
be whoever you want to be.
No better way to conclude.
I hope you have enjoyed this episode of the Adventures podcast as much as we did,
making it until we return with another titillating episode where we discuss sex,
pleasure and everything else in between.
Stay coming charlie,
(28:35):
that's supposed to be my line,
can I steal your line from time to time charlie.
Have we ever shared Dick?
Maybe we can share lines?
I don't know,
I mean we were testing the adventures from the bedrooms of African woman podcast is hosted by malika Grant and another course,
Freddie boswell is a senior producer.
(28:57):
Fatima Derby is our associate producer written by wanna use audio edits his our mercy Barno and kevin study malika Grant and another co shtm are executive producers.
The adventures from the bedrooms of African woman podcast is a production of studios in partnership with the media is our studio administrator and is the studio ceo follow us on all our social media,
(29:26):
that's our studios podcasts,
our theme music is performed by real boss music from this episode comes from epidemic sounds,
find adventures from the bedrooms of African women anywhere,
you get your podcasts and in the pursuit of all things sex,
sexuality and pleasure.
Follow us on all our social media platforms at adventures from.
(29:50):
Thanks for listening.
Fly!
Goddamn!
She might die goddamn!
With the goddess life,
she everything.
Popular Podcasts
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com