December 7, 2023 • 32 mins
Right on time for all of those new devices hitting your households this holiday season, Erin and Jessi are joined by Children's Librarian and Digital Literacy Specialist, Ms. Elaine Perez, to speak about understanding media literacy, navigating screen time and overall online wellbeing. Elaine, studied media literacy at the Erickson Institute in Chicago.
Episode #7, December 2023
For more resources on this topic, check out our topic guide: Adventures in Parenting Episode #7 Resource Guide.
Don't forget to check out Common Sense Media, Google Safety for Children and Families, and of course, stop by the Library any time and make sure to check the Library's events calendar.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Jessi (00:00):
Hey listeners and
(00:00):
welcome to another episode
of the Patchogue Medford Library'sAdventures in Parenting podcast
.I'm Jessi
Erin (00:06):
and I'm Erin.
Both (00:06):
We're librarians.
We're busy moms and we love podcasts.
Erin (00:11):
We are so lucky to be joined today by our very good friend
and colleague, Children's Librarianand Digital Literacy Specialist, Ms.
Elaine Perez.
Elaine, Studied media literacy at theErickson Institute in Chicago, and
she's gonna help us help you understandmedia literacy and navigate screen
time and overall online wellbeing.
So welcome, Elaine.
Welcome.
Elaine Perez (00:29):
Thank you,
Jessi (00:29):
Thank you
for joining us
Elaine Perez (00:30):
I'm so honored to be here and to discussing
a subject as we're very close.
Jessi (00:34):
We're hoping that today's topic comes right on time for
all of those new devices hittingyour households this holiday
season.
Erin (00:40):
So, Elaine, why don't you start off by telling us a little bit about what you
learned during your timewith the Erickson Institute.
Elaine Perez (00:45):
Well, we covered several topics.
Rethinking screen use in early childhood,reflective media literacy practice, and
implementing media literacy attention.
We had an opportunity to discuss howdifferent demographics across the United
States are teaching media literacywith school aged children and parents.
And we also learned about thenumerous computer programs and
(01:05):
websites and enhanced book formats.
Erin (01:08):
What is media literacy and what makes media good or bad and why does
this matter?
Elaine Perez (01:13):
It matters to all of us on a daily basis on
the way we navigate our world.
Media literacy really refers to theability to access, analyze, evaluate,
and create media in various forms.
So that, in essence, you have to learnhow to understand the messages that you
get through different media channels.
And it gives us an opportunity toquestion what we do here and see, and
(01:34):
how to identify any potential biases,and learn what's the difference between
credible and unreliable sources.
It's also important because we dolive in a democracy, and we have
to learn to make good decisions.
Our children are going to bethe future leaders, so we need
to take a look at that now.
They have to get used to looking atall points of view and making decisions
(01:55):
on what they see and what they hear.
Jessi (01:57):
That's such a good point.
If you start working on media literacywith your children when they're young,
and you're talking about things that theyenjoy, and helping them analyze those
things, then it will just be easier asthey get older and they start engaging
with more complicated subject mattersand they're looking at more sources, then
they will understand the concept of justbecause it's there doesn't mean it's true.
So this is kind of a good gatewayinto being a better informed citizen.
Erin (02:21):
Well it has a big social aspect too.
Not just critically evaluating fakenews stories and misleading narratives.
But think of it in terms of cyberbullying.
Somebody starts sendingsomething around on social media
about one of your classmates.
Maybe do a little investigationto see, is this true?
Is this even, why is thisgoing around about this person?
It's part of media literacy and yourresponsibility to use it ethically.
Elaine Perez (02:43):
Good point, too.
When you get the news, peoplehave a tendency to react to it
immediately and You can't do that.
You can't stop and take a look.
Where is this coming from?
Why is this being transmitted?
And what should I do about it?
And that's actually a good pointfor children to go to their parents.
You know, look, this came up.
Please help me.
I don't know what to do.
This could be overwhelming.
(03:04):
Kind of child's going to be placed in asituation that they feel that they have
to address immediately, but they don'tto take time and find someone to help
you with it.
Jessi (03:12):
Thank you for that explanation of media literacy.
I think it's again another phrase thatwe hear a lot here in the library but
maybe not so much in day to day life.
But I do know for a factthat in day to day life we're
told a lot about screen time.
So how does screen timerelate to media literacy?
Elaine Perez (03:28):
Recent research suggests that it's the nature of the screen time
rather than the length that matters.
So instead of worrying about thedevice you limit, parents should
think, is my child learning?
Will high tech activitiesengage my child in artistic
expression and creative thinking?
Will they be able to learn anddevelop skills that will help
them advance their future career?
So you, you should notbe focusing on the time.
(03:49):
It's the quality of what they'relooking at, which is very important.
Jessi (03:53):
What can parents do to help encourage and model, uh, media
literacy with their children?
Elaine Perez (04:00):
We can do a couple of things.
We can find out why they want tolearn a particular app, what's the
purpose behind that, and what mostimportant is for you to do it first.
Go through the app, take a look at it.
Do you want your childto use this app, or not?
Do you find there'ssomething that's educational?
Or maybe not alwayseducational, maybe they don't.
(04:20):
They just need to be entertained.
They had a rough day at school,and they just need to calm down.
So it's just a matter of playing thegame, and then they'll play that for
a short time, and they'll navigatethemselves to another website.
We do have to let our children play.
It always cannot be about school,because they have to find a way to
release some of the emotions andtensions they're going through.
Not just with their lives, butthe world around them, because the
(04:43):
world is now at your fingertip.
You know what's going on atall times around the world now.
It's just amazing how
Jessi (04:51):
It's really so important and I think sometimes we feel
like there's not enough time.
I don't have enough time to do that.
And I know I've felt that way too.
But I will say that just taking thatextra two minutes to look at the
game that my kid wants to download.
Sometimes it says it'sfree, but it isn't free.
So even on like that very basic level,just being involved in the decision making
(05:11):
process and then communicating with yourchild why it's a yes or why it's a no
and looking at like the ads on YouTube.
Sometimes my kids will download free gamesand then the ads are so inappropriate
and I'll use that as a reason to explainwhy maybe this game is inappropriate.
If these ads are targeted towards adults.
Then why are you playing the game?
Like, this game might be for adults.
But if I wasn't paying attention,I never would know that, you know?
(05:34):
And then they would neverunderstand what they're seeing.
Elaine Perez (05:37):
You know, what's also good about that is that if you give
your child a chance to evaluate, not forthe parents To do all the evaluation.
Jessi (05:44):
Mm-Hmm.
Elaine Perez (05:45):
for the child to say, well, you know, mom,
I don't think this is right.
I don't agree with you.
You can get a discussion on that, andthat'll help out with all aspects of life.
Yes.
But they need to feel like they'replaying a role in the decision making
that it's now someone's dictating to them.
What?
Jessi (05:59):
That's exactly right.
Erin (06:00):
I've had my daughter bail out of games because she didn't like the way
other users were playing the game, andit was kind of ruining her experience.
Either they were doing things thatwere inappropriate or like things were
coming up in the chat that she wasn'tcomfortable with and she removed herself
from that situation and I was pretty
impressed.
I was like, Hmm, yeah, good job.
Yes.
Thank you for monitoring yourself
(06:20):
.Jessi: Right?
That's a good moment as a parent.
They don't want to be aroundthis so they'll be more
cautious next time when choosing
another game or anotherapp or whatever it is.
Jessi (06:31):
And I'm sure in part she's made those decisions because you've
had conversations with her andshe understands When something is
inappropriate, but if we're not havingthese conversations, children might
not even recognize that this is asituation that they should not be in.
Elaine Perez (06:46):
So how can we teach media literacy?
Any of the social medias, you haveto take a look at them to see, where
is this information coming from?
And, is it valid?
Should I pay attention to it or not?
If you have second thoughts like, thismay not be correct or it can't be true,
seek the help of an adult or even an oldersibling can help you out too with this.
It's not just always an adult.
(07:07):
That could be one way.
Don't react instantly to the headline.
Do not forward, share, orretweet something until you've
read all the information on it.
Again, looking at the source.
The information is coming from aclassmate who's giving you trouble.
Do you want to take thatinformation and use it?
Or like, maybe stop and take a look.
Well, I know what that person Also,news media, as we talked about this,
(07:30):
is very important in democracy.
Our children are goingto be future leaders.
And some of them are actually leaders nowin their schools and in their communities.
And we need to do the best wecan, demonstrating what the
world should be, to make a betterplace for all of us to live in.
Jessi (07:46):
It's an easy acronym to remember if you want, so we want
to Stop is what the acronym is, andit's S, you want to specify, like,
what are they using these things for?
You know, T, is it a trusted source?
O, observe and test it yourself.
And then P, play and explore.
So let them play, but kind of,you know, keep an eye and see how
they're engaging with the media.
So that's everything we can do juston a day to day starting right now.
(08:07):
So what are some places and resourcesthat parents can check out if they
want to dive a little bit deeper, orthey want to do some research on that
new video game that their child wantsto play and they want to make sure
it's a developmentally appropriate.
Where, where are some of those resources?
Elaine Perez (08:21):
So one of the ones that we've been using a lot
is called Common Sense Media.
It's a fantastic website.
Jessi (08:28):
I'm obsessed with them.
Uh,
Elaine Perez (08:29):
the nation's leading non profit organization.
Dedicated to improving thelives of all kids and families,
providing trustworthy information.
This is an amazing website.
It actually had ratings forall the movies, videos, the
amount of information there.
And it's also provided byages, grades for school.
Jessi (08:48):
Mm hmm.
Elaine Perez (08:48):
It covers I mean, you could just get lost on this website.
Jessi (08:51):
You really can.
Erin (08:52):
I love how they have the different ratings, like what kids say
it is, versus what adults say it is.
And then you kind of figureout somewhere in the middle.
Jessi (08:59):
That's exactly right.
Yeah.
Erin (09:01):
It's pretty great.
It's amazing.
We've raved about it before.
Jessi (09:03):
Yes.
We definitely have.
I know that'll be my nextcareer is working for them.
Um, I really especially like the kidsreviews because the kids always say
that whatever the media is is moreappropriate for Younger kids than the
parents say always But it's great.
You're right.
You can find like your own mediumThey also have a really great section
about media literacy and creatinglike a mini media literacy plan with
(09:25):
your family Which is super helpful ifyou're starting from scratch with this
Elaine Perez (09:31):
And they also have a lot of videos that you can watch as a family.
And it's actually cateredto the younger child.
They have these figures and they tell youwhat they mean and what they represent.
And it's very colorful and animated.
And the kids just gravitate.
I was like mesmerized.
I can't wait.
I want to see this again.
Erin (09:50):
It's particularly
helpful now because I'm noticing
more and more movies have
NR, not rated, categories so you
really don't even knowwhat you're getting into.
You're kind of assuming maybe by the
genre that maybe it's going toinclude some of this or some of that.
We got so used to that ratingsystem for a while where you
kind of knew what to expect.
Yes.
The 13 of like the 80s is notlike the PG and PG 13 now.
Jessi (10:13):
Yes.
PG 13 movies, I believe, are ableto show deaths, violent deaths,
but as long as there's no blood.
So, you could be watching likethese superhero movies and people
are just dying by the thousands.
They're just being murdered, butthere's no blood, so it's PG 13.
But you wouldn't know that by that rating.
You would think, oh, it'sPG 13, how bad could it be?
But Common Sense Media will really breakit down in their categories for review.
Erin (10:36):
Exactly like when something says like crude humor.
Yes.
They'll tell you what the words are,they'll tell you what they mean.
Jessi (10:41):
They also are really good about, you know, they review it for
things like positive representationsand I think of like diversity.
Like they have categories for the stuffthat maybe you're actively seeking out.
It's great.
I can't say enough goodthings about that website.
Erin (10:54):
Doesn't Google have one now as well?
Elaine Perez (10:55):
So that call Google Safety for Children and Families website.
I discovered this one actually.
I was really impressed with it.
They put a lot of work into it, howto navigate technology, building
family friendly experiences, creatingsafer parental controls, different
videos to see where your family at.
This is definitely awebsite to take a look at.
Jessi (11:14):
There's so much information out there.
We're gonna, as always, we'll haveA resource guide that will list
them, but I know that the AmericanPediatric Association also has
on their website a family mediaplan that you could do together.
There is another organization calledNAMLE, N A M L E, and they have a
parent's guide to media literacy.
So this information is out there.
We're here to help you find it.
(11:35):
Don't be fooled by the fact thatthey know what they're doing
on these devices so quickly.
They really don't.
Um, they might be ableto navigate a device.
But they still need your help sobecause they can figure the game out
really quickly doesn't really meanthat they are Seeing the full picture.
So, this is why media literacyis really so important.
We tend to just think that they knowwhat they're doing because they've
(11:56):
grown up with it and they truly don't.
Erin (11:58):
It's like putting it in the context of reading.
Just because your kids can readthe words doesn't mean they
can emotionally understand what
everything's about, so.
Jessi (12:05):
Exactly.
Erin (12:06):
Was there one thing from your time with Erickson that
you were like, this is a huge takeaway
for me?
Elaine Perez (12:11):
What I thought was fascinating because, um, you
know, here we are on Long Island.
But it's interesting to see what therest of the United States is doing with
this information, with this technology.
And it varies from state to state,depending on the demographics.
But some of, most of the libraries aredoing a lot of things that we're doing.
makes you feel good thatyou're headed the right way.
It also brings up a lot of differentthings that maybe that we already
(12:34):
have these things and we couldbe using them a different way.
It was just wonderful to see howcommunicating not just with families
and children, but with peers, somebodywho's working in the educational
field, what are they doing?
What are they discovering andwhat do we need to work on?
What do we need to change tomake life easier for all of us?
And that is an ongoing process.
(12:54):
Um, it's not something youjust, well, I'm done now.
Jessi (12:58):
Yeah, it's hard to because, um, I don't know if you guys know
this, but there's only one state
in the country that has mandateddigital literacy for school curriculums,
digital media literacy.
One state in the entire country.
It's New Jersey.
So if you're listening to this podcastand you're thinking, my goodness,
why aren't the schools helping?
(13:19):
Some districts are.
I know that, I believe, PATMED doestouch on these topics and they do their
own curriculum, but it's not mandated.
So reach out to your legislators and letthem know that this should be mandated.
They should be learning thisstuff in school, but that also
does not negate the fact that asparents, we have to be involved.
Elaine Perez (13:34):
What's happening in school is important, and if they can take
that and learn something from it andbring it to their families, the world
would be a better place to live in.
Yeah.
Let's touch on a couple of questions.
What does online wellbeing mean to each of you?
Jessi (13:47):
You want to go first, Erin?
Erin (13:48):
I guess online
well being would be not having thatknot in my stomach or that anxiety about
going online or feeling disappointed
or disillusioned or
inadequate when I get offline.
Jessi (14:02):
Right.
Erin (14:02):
That sense of guilt maybe when you hand your child a device
or you just kind of let them spend
Jessi (14:09):
I agree completely.
Um, I think it's about feeling comfortableand safe when I'm using my device and
when I know my Children are using theirs.
I also think that online well beingmeans interacting with the technology.
Like for me, the more I know aboutsomething, the better I feel about
it when there's new technologyin my life or my Children's life.
(14:30):
And if I don't take the time to understandit, then I am way more anxious about
it than I would be if I Just kind oftook the time to figure it out first.
Elaine Perez (14:39):
When you think about the concept of screen time, is your
initial reaction positive or negative?
Jessi (14:44):
Negative.
Oh yeah, I hate to say it, but negative.
Always.
Erin (14:47):
I just feel like that's what everyone concentrates
on, is the fear of what
is this doing to my child?
And you know, what are they doing?
What am I not seeing?
Seeing,
Jessi (14:56):
right?
Yeah.
It's confusing messaging because you know,on the one hand, it's no screen time, no
screen time, not too much screen time.
But then on the other hand,our whole world is screen time.
My life is screen time and I always havemy phone and I'm on the computer all day.
So then
Erin (15:09):
how do you tell them, well, no, it's not good for you.
Right?
Elaine Perez (15:12):
What are some things
that contribute to our fears?
All my anxiety and negative perceptionsof screen time and contribute
to a lack of digital wellbeing.
Jessi (15:20):
I mean, it's the usual things.
You know, first of all, we aretaught, you know, when your child is.
still in your womb, thatscreen time is terrible.
So you're automaticallystarting there at that baseline.
That screen time is bad for them.
But then, the more you interact withthe online world, and the more your
kids do, you also are exposed to allof the scams, and the inappropriate
content, and the fake news, and, youknow, so all of that stuff contributes
(15:44):
to the anxiety and the fear that Ihave of just letting my kids loose.
I don't have a very positivefeeling about screen time at
all because of those things.
Erin (15:54):
I want to have a positive.
Jessi (15:55):
Yeah, me too.
Erin (15:56):
You know, because I know that just being a librarian, you know that
there's so many positive resourcesout there that kids can access
for education, for entertainment.
Like, we're aware of
that, but I still feel so guilty.
Sometimes I'll look like, wow,you've been on that for a while.
Like, what are you doing?
Jessi (16:13):
Right.
Erin (16:14):
It's a little overwhelming.
Jessi (16:15):
Yeah.
Erin (16:16):
It's a lot of a lot overwhelming, right?
Jessi (16:18):
And then there's also the fear that your kid is going to live their
entire life online and that they'remissing out on the natural world of the
physical world and their social world,you know, so it's It's all of those things
that make being a modern parent so fun.
Is there such a thingas positive screen time?
Elaine Perez (16:34):
There is, especially if you're working together as a family.
If you're doing everything,there's some kind of closeness
with you, with the children.
And that can be difficult because theremay be more than one child in the family,
and they may be on different devices.
Well worth the time so you knowexactly what your child is looking at.
And just get a lot ofcommunication, what's going on.
(16:56):
And that'll incorporatefamily life and school life.
Jessi (17:01):
Yeah, just doing it together.
I think I've mentioned thisbefore on the podcast, but we
have banned YouTube in the house.
I saw the influence it was havingon my kids when it went unchecked.
And now we just do it as afamily, so we only watch YouTube
when we watch it together.
Elaine Perez (17:18):
Put the TV on, and then I'll find out that the advertisement before or
after YouTube can be really detrimentalto our children, even to ourselves.
Sometimes I'm shocked, andI'm like, oh my goodness.
So I actually, when I do useYouTube now, I will definitely
be, um, pre monitor the, um,
Jessi (17:35):
You just never know what's going to pop up on those ads.
Other than doing things together, becauselike you said, life is busy, right?
So, and my kids are different ages,so my older one doesn't want to do
the same things as my younger one.
So what are, aside from doing everythingtogether at all times, what are some
other tips that we can offer parentsto help decrease their fears about
(17:56):
screen time, technology being isolating?
Elaine Perez (18:01):
and talk about the dangers of misinformation, inappropriate
content, and the isolation thatcan come with digital media.
And it's important to discuss the levelsof danger to children as they grow up.
You don't want to give too muchinformation to a younger child,
just enough to answer that question.
Whereas with an olderchild, you'd have to go into
Jessi (18:18):
I read somewhere that it's really great to teach your kids to ask
questions about what they're watching.
So, we're doing this in our house.
I don't know if anybody listening,if their kids love Ryan.
But the Ryan shows on YouTube basicallystarted, they were toy advertisements.
It was Ryan and his family playingwith toys and then, you know, your
kid watches and they want that toy.
So I would haveconversations with my kids.
(18:39):
Wow, you know, Ryan's reallyplaying with that cool toy.
Like, why do you thinkhe wants us to see that?
All those kinds of questions.
And then eventually we gotto the point where the kids
understood that that's an ad.
That's a commercial.
He's getting paid for that.
And, but it took us a while to get there.
But it's just encouraging thosequestions and kind of showing
them that that's not normal.
I mean, not, not, no, Iguess it's the new normal.
But just to have them question it makes.
(19:00):
it a little easier, I would assume,down the line when they start seeing
more intense information and Yeah.
Erin (19:06):
When it gets to the real complicated, this is affecting my
self esteem, or this is disturbingto me, or, you know, I really don't
understand this, you've createdthis atmosphere where the kids feel
comfortable enough to talk to you aboutwhat they're seeing, which is the goal.
Jessi (19:20):
Yeah.
Elaine Perez (19:21):
It's also, I think it's important to encourage your children to
avoid instantly reacting to a headline.
There's a lot of peoplegoing around saying things.
And if you don't know who they are,they have no background at all.
Jessi (19:31):
Yeah, you're right.
The instant reaction isproblematic all around.
And if you think about it in thecontext of your child, you don't want
them to automatically assume that justbecause they saw it, it's correct.
Because one day it could be about them.
Erin (19:44):
I feel like even if people disagree
with me, if I've put somethingout there, but it's well
researched, and I feel goodabout what I've shared, that
increases my sense of online.
Well,
Jessi (19:54):
I think pointing out to children that if they're engaging with media,
it shouldn't be making them have thatuncomfortable feeling in their stomach.
You know, it shouldn'tbe giving them anxiety.
You know, those are not feelingsthat we want to, you know, encourage.
And so it's good for themto pay attention to that.
I think even for adults, we shouldbe paying attention to that.
Erin (20:13):
We have to model that though, because I'm anxious
about my technology andwhat's going on online.
My daughter is going to seethat she's going to be wary of.
technology if she sees
that it's giving me massive anxiety.
Jessi (20:25):
Right, or she might just think it's normal and normalize that, you
know, and just think like, oh yeah,this is how I'm supposed to feel
when I come away from being online.
Modeling good behavior, I think, isprobably one of the best things we could
do for, like, our online well being.
It's, you know, it's theairplane mask scenario.
If you're taking care of yourself first,then you can take care of your kids.
So if you're using technology in away that is you to feel dysregulated.
(20:50):
Or you're contributing to, youknow, the spread of misinformation.
And how are you really going to besetting a good example for your kids?
And I know that that's alot easier said than done.
I struggle with it, too.
But it's just, you know,you're trying your best to
model that good tech behavior.
If your kid isn't allowed to be on theirdevice at dinner, you're not allowed
to be on their your device at dinner.
Like, that's just how that has to go.
(21:10):
It can't be Absolutely.
I can't believe it.
Elaine Perez (21:11):
I also Touch on something like getting up in the
morning and looking at your phone.
The problem with that is you may checkfor the time and for the weather, but
we need to put it down to the side andmake our children feel that they're the
most important people in our lives andnot what's on the smartphone or whatnot.
So, mm-Hmm, because again,there's role modeling there.
And if they see that, they all realize,okay, I'm not looking at mine either.
Erin (21:34):
My husband has one of those jobs that doesn't end
when he comes home.
Mm-Hmm.
. So like the phone is always ringing.
Yeah, it's so hard to not take those phone
calls.
Sure.
It's work and I'm like theycan wait like 15 minutes.
Yeah Yeah, then when her friendscall or FaceTime or whatever,
she's like, well, how come he cantake phone calls, but I can't.
Jessi (21:52):
Right, right.
Yeah,
Erin (21:53):
like well, it's because it's work.
Jessi (21:55):
Right.
Still.
Yeah, you know, I know their world isjust as important to them as our world
Is to us so they don't really see thedifference between your work and their
friends They're just equally importantto them So that makes it really hard.
Erin (22:09):
Um, so I guess that's where that family plan that you love so much,
you know, would come in and that wouldbe a great resource for this as well.
Jessi (22:16):
Yes.
Erin (22:17):
Does that common sense mean here?
Jessi (22:18):
You know, it is.
It's really helpful.
We sat down together as a family andwe agreed on what the expectations
for technology was going to be.
I actually just amended ourtech contract the other day.
Erin (22:28):
For what?
Jessi (22:29):
I made it so, cause we are very lax about the tablet used in the car.
If we're going like 20 minutes or longer,we're like, fine, bring your tablet.
But then I was like,what are we doing here?
This is ridiculous.
You can suck it up for 20 minutes.
So now we made it, if we're inthe car for an hour or longer,
you can have your tablet.
But before that you have to bring abook, you have to stare out the window
and be bored like I did as a kid.
So we amended it
Erin (22:49):
and is there nothing
that they could do to like
engage the whole car?
Jessi (22:54):
Oh yeah, we do that too.
Okay.
You know, I spy all those.
kind of thing.
But they, when they use theirtablets, it's their time.
So, you know, they're watchingtheir games or they're playing
their games or watching their shows.
So it's not really like a family thing.
And I find that with my kids, when I'm
trying to set a rule or, youknow, my expectations, I really
don't like saying, because I said so,which contributes to my sense of well
(23:16):
being because I know that I am, Ihave done my, my background research
and I know why I'm making this.
And I think that that encouragesthem to be aware of the decisions
that they're making and, you know, wecan do things together collectively.
And I guess the thing too is that,and this is just a reminder to us as
parents, like your kids, if you're doingthings right, then they should feel
(23:37):
comfortable to come to you with questions.
And it sometimes can bereally hard to answer them.
And, you know, want to keep that lineof communication open because things
can be awkward or confusing to explain.
But I think as long as we try our best.
Just to keep that line of communicationopen and even if they come to you with
some really inappropriate thing that theysaw, like just try and have them feel
heard and that you understand and you'regoing to try and help them and that way
(24:00):
they'll keep coming to you in the future.
Erin (24:02):
Part of that is,
oh sorry, is staying informed so thatyou know where to go for help if your
child does need help with something.
If it's not something that you canhandle in home, come to the library.
We have the resources, we havethe experts, we can point you in
the right direction to get help.
Elaine Perez (24:20):
And I think it's important that we may not always
have all the answers that ourchildren may be asking of us.
And it's okay for us to say tothem, I will look into that,
I'll get an answer for you.
So I think it's important, yes, usethe library, use, um, other parents,
um, talk about the experiences.
So show our child that we'relooking to get the answers for you.
(24:41):
I don't know the answer rightnow, but I will seek it.
Erin (24:43):
I love that.
I stress that with mydaughter all the time.
Just because we're adults does notmean that we have all the answers.
You can't just take it that that'sthe absolute truth unless they're
backing it up with something.
Elaine Perez (24:55):
That's right.
Erin (24:56):
step further and say, well, how do you know that feeling?
Or do you actually like, where areyou getting this information from?
Jessi (25:04):
Right.
Erin (25:04):
Just question everything.
Jessi (25:06):
Yeah, no, you're right.
I am constantly telling my kids,I don't know what I'm doing.
I was like, I don't know what I'm doing,
Erin (25:11):
but it's good.
I
think that alleviates.
Some pressure.
Yeah.
On them.
Jessi (25:16):
On them and on you.
Right?
Absolutely.
You don't need to have the answers,but you need to be committed
to helping them figure it out.
Erin (25:21):
Find it out.
Right.
And just make sure that you give yourchild the time and space to think about
what's being discussed and allow themto talk without judgment or, Mm-Hmm.
or blame or interruptionto just kind of get there.
Feelings out and pick an environmentwhere they feel comfortable
at a moment where they feel
relaxed to make iteasier for them You know
(25:42):
to talk openly and to listen.
Mm hmm.
You know what I mean?
Jessi (25:45):
Yeah.
Yeah, that is great
Erin (25:47):
And then letting them guide you if they're talking to you about
something that I don't you know Youdon't understand or that concerns you
ask them to show you or give you moredetails and listen carefully to them I
think sometimes my daughter will come toto me with things and like immediately
I'll want to like give an explanation but
you have to just step back and justlisten and just let them kind of get it
all out and then just choose your wordscarefully and just think, digest it.
Jessi (26:10):
Yeah, I'm very bad at that.
I am an instant reactor.
I'm always like, no!
I'm like, well, hold on, letme, let me think about it.
But you're right.
It's a good point.
Erin (26:18):
Asking open ended questions.
Jessi (26:20):
Yes, that I'm also bad at.
Erin (26:21):
Yeah, I, me too.
That's definitely one that I saw.
Jessi (26:24):
Good thing we're a podcast host.
Erin (26:27):
Yeah, that
was another thing in the researchfor this episode that kept
coming up as, as a way to kind ofinitiate these conversations with
your kid is asking, well, you know,like, what do you enjoy about that?
Or how does this activity make you feel?
You know, to make sure thatyour kids feel comfortable
talking to you and sharing their
true feelings, not
just you what you want to hear.
Jessi (26:45):
Right.
Yeah.
I think you're right too.
And like, my kids are young on the youngside, so I don't have teenagers yet.
But, they're seeing so manythings for the first time.
Erin (26:54):
Mmhmm.
Jessi (26:55):
That, you They could, they could very easily just accept
them as this is how things are.
And so I think what you're saying is true,is like you have to let them experience
it and then kind of process it on theirown and then you talk through it and then,
you know, like how did that make you feelor why do you think that is, you know?
I just had a whole conversation with mydaughter the other day about how come
girls have to wear shorts and boys don't.
(27:15):
And it was just like somethingthat just occurred to her and I
was like, oh, let's talk about it.
And like, so, you know, they'reseeing these things and you want
them to question it a little bit.
It's what you make of it.
Like everything else.
It's the same thing with food.
You can fill your body with junkfood or you could fill your body with
nutritious food and most often than notyou're just trying to find that balance.
So I feel like that's the same
thing with screen time.
Erin (27:36):
Yeah, I question a lot of those statistically.
sometimes because if you think like,well, what if you say a kid's got,
you know, three hours of screen time,how do you know it's not like an
hour of facetiming with grandparents?
Jessi (27:46):
Right.
Erin (27:46):
And then like, you know, a half an hour doing a math
game or do they break it down?
I don't, I don't oftensee that in most studies.
They usually just give you likea flat statistic, like anything
over an hour is bad or anything,
you know.
Um, but it's, you, you have,they have to quantify it in a.
different way.
Jessi (28:04):
Yeah, I agree.
It's also not realistic.
Erin (28:06):
It's very misleading, yeah.
Jessi (28:08):
With my oldest one, we, she didn't watch a screen for
the first year of her life.
We were, no TV, nothing.
And then the second one comes along andthe older one's already watching screens.
So what are you going to do?
You know, the kid's going towalk around with blinders.
Like we gotta, we have to figure it out.
And I think Ms.
Elaine gave us a lot of goodtips today on how to just.
Stay on top of thesethings and communicate.
I think it really always justboils down to communication.
(28:29):
Absolutely.
And you know, just thinking about howyou react to screen time and how you
react to navigating the online worldand then trying to process that in a way
that can help your child navigate it.
So, like we were saying before, ifit makes you uneasy to see certain
things, it's probably making yourkid uneasy to see those things.
So, communicate about that.
Talk about that.
You know, and then don'tjust immediately ban it.
(28:51):
Talk about it.
Because you'll be giving themthe skills to help them do
this when you're not around.
Erin (28:56):
Yeah.
The time spent with ascreen is far less important
than what's happening on the screen.
So I think that kind of also, you put itin that way, it kind of reduces that guilt
a little bit.
That's right.
Of when you're out to eat and want
to hand, hand a kid a device because
it's taking like two hours to getyour meal and they're right to tears.
Jessi (29:12):
They've done their best.
Yeah.
To get through it.
Tried.
Yeah.
You know, and also, um, if you'relistening and you don't give your
kids devices, good for you, morepower to you, please don't, don't
judge parents that do, yeah, exactly.
I can't tell you how many times we'vebeen out to dinner and people have
been giving us like, The stink eye.
(29:33):
It's like, well, my kid could be screamingright now, so I'm doing you a favor.
Erin (29:36):
Did you feel that way before you had kids?
Because I remember going intorestaurants, like, before I had kids,
and being like, wow, like that kidis so little, and they've been on
that device the entire dinner, and itnever even occurred to me what that
kid would be like without the device.
Jessi (29:50):
Without it, right.
Yeah.
Erin (29:52):
I just felt bad, like, oh, they're not even, like, interacting with the kid.
Yeah.
So I tried initially, like, whenI was really little, we would
have all these, like, you know,suction cup toys and things.
Like, sticking things to the table.
That's right.
And, like, I had this big tote
bag of, like, activitiesfor every possibility.
And it, it literallyjust got so overwhelming.
I'm like, I I can't becarrying this huge bag.
(30:12):
Like you want to do this for five minutes?
Jessi (30:14):
That's right.
Yeah.
It's a minute here, a minute there.
Yeah.
Erin (30:17):
So eventually the tote bag went away and the tablet came out
because I just, I was at my wit's end.
Jessi (30:23):
Yes.
Yeah.
I might be.
And I think most people are that way.
Erin (30:26):
Yeah.
But it is hard not to
feel like you've got eyes on you and
you're just being judged all the time.
Jessi (30:32):
Well, cause you are.
Erin (30:34):
Parents have got to be kinder to other parents.
Jessi (30:35):
That's a hundred percent right.
Erin (30:38):
That would increase my life well being.
Jessi (30:40):
Yeah!
Yeah!
Are there any words of wisdom you'dlike to leave us with today Ms.
Hulley?
Elaine Perez (30:45):
I know I think we covered a lot of information and I hope everybody
takes the time to listen to it andcheck out these two websites we talk
about, Common Sense and Google Safety.
There's a lot of information.
Please and Do not hesitate to cometo the library and talk to one
of our librarians and we'll shareyour thoughts with other parents.
We would love to hear from you.
Jessi (31:05):
Yeah, definitely.
Agreed.
And if you liked our podcast today,please let your friends and family know.
And us!
Yes, please.
We would love to hear from youwith your thoughts on upcoming
topics or just general feedback.
How are we doing?
You can email us at Podcast at PMLIB.
org and also just so you know if you'relistening to this through the website,
you can also now get our podcastmost places podcasts are listened to.
(31:30):
Yeah,
Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts,
all the all the places.
Erin (31:33):
We're everywhere.
Jessi (31:34):
So you can subscribe and rate us and like us and all the things
that the professional podcasters say.
Erin (31:40):
Um, and we will have a resource guide for today's episode, um, along
with all the previous episodes,if you'd like to dig a little
deeper into any of these topics.
Um, and again, thank you so much, Elaine.
Thank you.
This was like a massivetopic we could go on.
Jessi (31:53):
Holy moly.
Erin (31:53):
Forever about it.
Jessi (31:54):
I know.
Erin (31:56):
But this was a nice, uh, nice foray into things to consider to
increase your online well being.
That's right.
Hey listeners and
(00:00):
welcome to another episode
of the Patchogue Medford Library'sAdventures in Parenting podcast
.I'm Jessi
Erin (00:06):
and I'm Erin.
Both (00:06):
We're librarians.
We're busy moms and we love podcasts.
Erin (00:11):
We are so lucky to be joined today by our very good friend
and colleague, Children's Librarianand Digital Literacy Specialist, Ms.
Elaine Perez.
Elaine, Studied media literacy at theErickson Institute in Chicago, and
she's gonna help us help you understandmedia literacy and navigate screen
time and overall online wellbeing.
So welcome, Elaine.
Welcome.
Elaine Perez (00:29):
Thank you,
Jessi (00:29):
Thank you
for joining us
Elaine Perez (00:30):
I'm so honored to be here and to discussing
a subject as we're very close.
Jessi (00:34):
We're hoping that today's topic comes right on time for
all of those new devices hittingyour households this holiday
season.
Erin (00:40):
So, Elaine, why don't you start off by telling us a little bit about what you
learned during your timewith the Erickson Institute.
Elaine Perez (00:45):
Well, we covered several topics.
Rethinking screen use in early childhood,reflective media literacy practice, and
implementing media literacy attention.
We had an opportunity to discuss howdifferent demographics across the United
States are teaching media literacywith school aged children and parents.
And we also learned about thenumerous computer programs and
(01:05):
websites and enhanced book formats.
Erin (01:08):
What is media literacy and what makes media good or bad and why does
this matter?
Elaine Perez (01:13):
It matters to all of us on a daily basis on
the way we navigate our world.
Media literacy really refers to theability to access, analyze, evaluate,
and create media in various forms.
So that, in essence, you have to learnhow to understand the messages that you
get through different media channels.
And it gives us an opportunity toquestion what we do here and see, and
(01:34):
how to identify any potential biases,and learn what's the difference between
credible and unreliable sources.
It's also important because we dolive in a democracy, and we have
to learn to make good decisions.
Our children are going to bethe future leaders, so we need
to take a look at that now.
They have to get used to looking atall points of view and making decisions
(01:55):
on what they see and what they hear.
Jessi (01:57):
That's such a good point.
If you start working on media literacywith your children when they're young,
and you're talking about things that theyenjoy, and helping them analyze those
things, then it will just be easier asthey get older and they start engaging
with more complicated subject mattersand they're looking at more sources, then
they will understand the concept of justbecause it's there doesn't mean it's true.
So this is kind of a good gatewayinto being a better informed citizen.
Erin (02:21):
Well it has a big social aspect too.
Not just critically evaluating fakenews stories and misleading narratives.
But think of it in terms of cyberbullying.
Somebody starts sendingsomething around on social media
about one of your classmates.
Maybe do a little investigationto see, is this true?
Is this even, why is thisgoing around about this person?
It's part of media literacy and yourresponsibility to use it ethically.
Elaine Perez (02:43):
Good point, too.
When you get the news, peoplehave a tendency to react to it
immediately and You can't do that.
You can't stop and take a look.
Where is this coming from?
Why is this being transmitted?
And what should I do about it?
And that's actually a good pointfor children to go to their parents.
You know, look, this came up.
Please help me.
I don't know what to do.
This could be overwhelming.
(03:04):
Kind of child's going to be placed in asituation that they feel that they have
to address immediately, but they don'tto take time and find someone to help
you with it.
Jessi (03:12):
Thank you for that explanation of media literacy.
I think it's again another phrase thatwe hear a lot here in the library but
maybe not so much in day to day life.
But I do know for a factthat in day to day life we're
told a lot about screen time.
So how does screen timerelate to media literacy?
Elaine Perez (03:28):
Recent research suggests that it's the nature of the screen time
rather than the length that matters.
So instead of worrying about thedevice you limit, parents should
think, is my child learning?
Will high tech activitiesengage my child in artistic
expression and creative thinking?
Will they be able to learn anddevelop skills that will help
them advance their future career?
So you, you should notbe focusing on the time.
(03:49):
It's the quality of what they'relooking at, which is very important.
Jessi (03:53):
What can parents do to help encourage and model, uh, media
literacy with their children?
Elaine Perez (04:00):
We can do a couple of things.
We can find out why they want tolearn a particular app, what's the
purpose behind that, and what mostimportant is for you to do it first.
Go through the app, take a look at it.
Do you want your childto use this app, or not?
Do you find there'ssomething that's educational?
Or maybe not alwayseducational, maybe they don't.
(04:20):
They just need to be entertained.
They had a rough day at school,and they just need to calm down.
So it's just a matter of playing thegame, and then they'll play that for
a short time, and they'll navigatethemselves to another website.
We do have to let our children play.
It always cannot be about school,because they have to find a way to
release some of the emotions andtensions they're going through.
Not just with their lives, butthe world around them, because the
(04:43):
world is now at your fingertip.
You know what's going on atall times around the world now.
It's just amazing how
Jessi (04:51):
It's really so important and I think sometimes we feel
like there's not enough time.
I don't have enough time to do that.
And I know I've felt that way too.
But I will say that just taking thatextra two minutes to look at the
game that my kid wants to download.
Sometimes it says it'sfree, but it isn't free.
So even on like that very basic level,just being involved in the decision making
(05:11):
process and then communicating with yourchild why it's a yes or why it's a no
and looking at like the ads on YouTube.
Sometimes my kids will download free gamesand then the ads are so inappropriate
and I'll use that as a reason to explainwhy maybe this game is inappropriate.
If these ads are targeted towards adults.
Then why are you playing the game?
Like, this game might be for adults.
But if I wasn't paying attention,I never would know that, you know?
(05:34):
And then they would neverunderstand what they're seeing.
Elaine Perez (05:37):
You know, what's also good about that is that if you give
your child a chance to evaluate, not forthe parents To do all the evaluation.
Jessi (05:44):
Mm-Hmm.
Elaine Perez (05:45):
for the child to say, well, you know, mom,
I don't think this is right.
I don't agree with you.
You can get a discussion on that, andthat'll help out with all aspects of life.
Yes.
But they need to feel like they'replaying a role in the decision making
that it's now someone's dictating to them.
What?
Jessi (05:59):
That's exactly right.
Erin (06:00):
I've had my daughter bail out of games because she didn't like the way
other users were playing the game, andit was kind of ruining her experience.
Either they were doing things thatwere inappropriate or like things were
coming up in the chat that she wasn'tcomfortable with and she removed herself
from that situation and I was pretty
impressed.
I was like, Hmm, yeah, good job.
Yes.
Thank you for monitoring yourself
(06:20):
.Jessi: Right?
That's a good moment as a parent.
They don't want to be aroundthis so they'll be more
cautious next time when choosing
another game or anotherapp or whatever it is.
Jessi (06:31):
And I'm sure in part she's made those decisions because you've
had conversations with her andshe understands When something is
inappropriate, but if we're not havingthese conversations, children might
not even recognize that this is asituation that they should not be in.
Elaine Perez (06:46):
So how can we teach media literacy?
Any of the social medias, you haveto take a look at them to see, where
is this information coming from?
And, is it valid?
Should I pay attention to it or not?
If you have second thoughts like, thismay not be correct or it can't be true,
seek the help of an adult or even an oldersibling can help you out too with this.
It's not just always an adult.
(07:07):
That could be one way.
Don't react instantly to the headline.
Do not forward, share, orretweet something until you've
read all the information on it.
Again, looking at the source.
The information is coming from aclassmate who's giving you trouble.
Do you want to take thatinformation and use it?
Or like, maybe stop and take a look.
Well, I know what that person Also,news media, as we talked about this,
(07:30):
is very important in democracy.
Our children are goingto be future leaders.
And some of them are actually leaders nowin their schools and in their communities.
And we need to do the best wecan, demonstrating what the
world should be, to make a betterplace for all of us to live in.
Jessi (07:46):
It's an easy acronym to remember if you want, so we want
to Stop is what the acronym is, andit's S, you want to specify, like,
what are they using these things for?
You know, T, is it a trusted source?
O, observe and test it yourself.
And then P, play and explore.
So let them play, but kind of,you know, keep an eye and see how
they're engaging with the media.
So that's everything we can do juston a day to day starting right now.
(08:07):
So what are some places and resourcesthat parents can check out if they
want to dive a little bit deeper, orthey want to do some research on that
new video game that their child wantsto play and they want to make sure
it's a developmentally appropriate.
Where, where are some of those resources?
Elaine Perez (08:21):
So one of the ones that we've been using a lot
is called Common Sense Media.
It's a fantastic website.
Jessi (08:28):
I'm obsessed with them.
Uh,
Elaine Perez (08:29):
the nation's leading non profit organization.
Dedicated to improving thelives of all kids and families,
providing trustworthy information.
This is an amazing website.
It actually had ratings forall the movies, videos, the
amount of information there.
And it's also provided byages, grades for school.
Jessi (08:48):
Mm hmm.
Elaine Perez (08:48):
It covers I mean, you could just get lost on this website.
Jessi (08:51):
You really can.
Erin (08:52):
I love how they have the different ratings, like what kids say
it is, versus what adults say it is.
And then you kind of figureout somewhere in the middle.
Jessi (08:59):
That's exactly right.
Yeah.
Erin (09:01):
It's pretty great.
It's amazing.
We've raved about it before.
Jessi (09:03):
Yes.
We definitely have.
I know that'll be my nextcareer is working for them.
Um, I really especially like the kidsreviews because the kids always say
that whatever the media is is moreappropriate for Younger kids than the
parents say always But it's great.
You're right.
You can find like your own mediumThey also have a really great section
about media literacy and creatinglike a mini media literacy plan with
(09:25):
your family Which is super helpful ifyou're starting from scratch with this
Elaine Perez (09:31):
And they also have a lot of videos that you can watch as a family.
And it's actually cateredto the younger child.
They have these figures and they tell youwhat they mean and what they represent.
And it's very colorful and animated.
And the kids just gravitate.
I was like mesmerized.
I can't wait.
I want to see this again.
Erin (09:50):
It's particularly
helpful now because I'm noticing
more and more movies have
NR, not rated, categories so you
really don't even knowwhat you're getting into.
You're kind of assuming maybe by the
genre that maybe it's going toinclude some of this or some of that.
We got so used to that ratingsystem for a while where you
kind of knew what to expect.
Yes.
The 13 of like the 80s is notlike the PG and PG 13 now.
Jessi (10:13):
Yes.
PG 13 movies, I believe, are ableto show deaths, violent deaths,
but as long as there's no blood.
So, you could be watching likethese superhero movies and people
are just dying by the thousands.
They're just being murdered, butthere's no blood, so it's PG 13.
But you wouldn't know that by that rating.
You would think, oh, it'sPG 13, how bad could it be?
But Common Sense Media will really breakit down in their categories for review.
Erin (10:36):
Exactly like when something says like crude humor.
Yes.
They'll tell you what the words are,they'll tell you what they mean.
Jessi (10:41):
They also are really good about, you know, they review it for
things like positive representationsand I think of like diversity.
Like they have categories for the stuffthat maybe you're actively seeking out.
It's great.
I can't say enough goodthings about that website.
Erin (10:54):
Doesn't Google have one now as well?
Elaine Perez (10:55):
So that call Google Safety for Children and Families website.
I discovered this one actually.
I was really impressed with it.
They put a lot of work into it, howto navigate technology, building
family friendly experiences, creatingsafer parental controls, different
videos to see where your family at.
This is definitely awebsite to take a look at.
Jessi (11:14):
There's so much information out there.
We're gonna, as always, we'll haveA resource guide that will list
them, but I know that the AmericanPediatric Association also has
on their website a family mediaplan that you could do together.
There is another organization calledNAMLE, N A M L E, and they have a
parent's guide to media literacy.
So this information is out there.
We're here to help you find it.
(11:35):
Don't be fooled by the fact thatthey know what they're doing
on these devices so quickly.
They really don't.
Um, they might be ableto navigate a device.
But they still need your help sobecause they can figure the game out
really quickly doesn't really meanthat they are Seeing the full picture.
So, this is why media literacyis really so important.
We tend to just think that they knowwhat they're doing because they've
(11:56):
grown up with it and they truly don't.
Erin (11:58):
It's like putting it in the context of reading.
Just because your kids can readthe words doesn't mean they
can emotionally understand what
everything's about, so.
Jessi (12:05):
Exactly.
Erin (12:06):
Was there one thing from your time with Erickson that
you were like, this is a huge takeaway
for me?
Elaine Perez (12:11):
What I thought was fascinating because, um, you
know, here we are on Long Island.
But it's interesting to see what therest of the United States is doing with
this information, with this technology.
And it varies from state to state,depending on the demographics.
But some of, most of the libraries aredoing a lot of things that we're doing.
makes you feel good thatyou're headed the right way.
It also brings up a lot of differentthings that maybe that we already
(12:34):
have these things and we couldbe using them a different way.
It was just wonderful to see howcommunicating not just with families
and children, but with peers, somebodywho's working in the educational
field, what are they doing?
What are they discovering andwhat do we need to work on?
What do we need to change tomake life easier for all of us?
And that is an ongoing process.
(12:54):
Um, it's not something youjust, well, I'm done now.
Jessi (12:58):
Yeah, it's hard to because, um, I don't know if you guys know
this, but there's only one state
in the country that has mandateddigital literacy for school curriculums,
digital media literacy.
One state in the entire country.
It's New Jersey.
So if you're listening to this podcastand you're thinking, my goodness,
why aren't the schools helping?
(13:19):
Some districts are.
I know that, I believe, PATMED doestouch on these topics and they do their
own curriculum, but it's not mandated.
So reach out to your legislators and letthem know that this should be mandated.
They should be learning thisstuff in school, but that also
does not negate the fact that asparents, we have to be involved.
Elaine Perez (13:34):
What's happening in school is important, and if they can take
that and learn something from it andbring it to their families, the world
would be a better place to live in.
Yeah.
Let's touch on a couple of questions.
What does online wellbeing mean to each of you?
Jessi (13:47):
You want to go first, Erin?
Erin (13:48):
I guess online
well being would be not having thatknot in my stomach or that anxiety about
going online or feeling disappointed
or disillusioned or
inadequate when I get offline.
Jessi (14:02):
Right.
Erin (14:02):
That sense of guilt maybe when you hand your child a device
or you just kind of let them spend
Jessi (14:09):
I agree completely.
Um, I think it's about feeling comfortableand safe when I'm using my device and
when I know my Children are using theirs.
I also think that online well beingmeans interacting with the technology.
Like for me, the more I know aboutsomething, the better I feel about
it when there's new technologyin my life or my Children's life.
(14:30):
And if I don't take the time to understandit, then I am way more anxious about
it than I would be if I Just kind oftook the time to figure it out first.
Elaine Perez (14:39):
When you think about the concept of screen time, is your
initial reaction positive or negative?
Jessi (14:44):
Negative.
Oh yeah, I hate to say it, but negative.
Always.
Erin (14:47):
I just feel like that's what everyone concentrates
on, is the fear of what
is this doing to my child?
And you know, what are they doing?
What am I not seeing?
Seeing,
Jessi (14:56):
right?
Yeah.
It's confusing messaging because you know,on the one hand, it's no screen time, no
screen time, not too much screen time.
But then on the other hand,our whole world is screen time.
My life is screen time and I always havemy phone and I'm on the computer all day.
So then
Erin (15:09):
how do you tell them, well, no, it's not good for you.
Right?
Elaine Perez (15:12):
What are some things
that contribute to our fears?
All my anxiety and negative perceptionsof screen time and contribute
to a lack of digital wellbeing.
Jessi (15:20):
I mean, it's the usual things.
You know, first of all, we aretaught, you know, when your child is.
still in your womb, thatscreen time is terrible.
So you're automaticallystarting there at that baseline.
That screen time is bad for them.
But then, the more you interact withthe online world, and the more your
kids do, you also are exposed to allof the scams, and the inappropriate
content, and the fake news, and, youknow, so all of that stuff contributes
(15:44):
to the anxiety and the fear that Ihave of just letting my kids loose.
I don't have a very positivefeeling about screen time at
all because of those things.
Erin (15:54):
I want to have a positive.
Jessi (15:55):
Yeah, me too.
Erin (15:56):
You know, because I know that just being a librarian, you know that
there's so many positive resourcesout there that kids can access
for education, for entertainment.
Like, we're aware of
that, but I still feel so guilty.
Sometimes I'll look like, wow,you've been on that for a while.
Like, what are you doing?
Jessi (16:13):
Right.
Erin (16:14):
It's a little overwhelming.
Jessi (16:15):
Yeah.
Erin (16:16):
It's a lot of a lot overwhelming, right?
Jessi (16:18):
And then there's also the fear that your kid is going to live their
entire life online and that they'remissing out on the natural world of the
physical world and their social world,you know, so it's It's all of those things
that make being a modern parent so fun.
Is there such a thingas positive screen time?
Elaine Perez (16:34):
There is, especially if you're working together as a family.
If you're doing everything,there's some kind of closeness
with you, with the children.
And that can be difficult because theremay be more than one child in the family,
and they may be on different devices.
Well worth the time so you knowexactly what your child is looking at.
And just get a lot ofcommunication, what's going on.
(16:56):
And that'll incorporatefamily life and school life.
Jessi (17:01):
Yeah, just doing it together.
I think I've mentioned thisbefore on the podcast, but we
have banned YouTube in the house.
I saw the influence it was havingon my kids when it went unchecked.
And now we just do it as afamily, so we only watch YouTube
when we watch it together.
Elaine Perez (17:18):
Put the TV on, and then I'll find out that the advertisement before or
after YouTube can be really detrimentalto our children, even to ourselves.
Sometimes I'm shocked, andI'm like, oh my goodness.
So I actually, when I do useYouTube now, I will definitely
be, um, pre monitor the, um,
Jessi (17:35):
You just never know what's going to pop up on those ads.
Other than doing things together, becauselike you said, life is busy, right?
So, and my kids are different ages,so my older one doesn't want to do
the same things as my younger one.
So what are, aside from doing everythingtogether at all times, what are some
other tips that we can offer parentsto help decrease their fears about
(17:56):
screen time, technology being isolating?
Elaine Perez (18:01):
and talk about the dangers of misinformation, inappropriate
content, and the isolation thatcan come with digital media.
And it's important to discuss the levelsof danger to children as they grow up.
You don't want to give too muchinformation to a younger child,
just enough to answer that question.
Whereas with an olderchild, you'd have to go into
Jessi (18:18):
I read somewhere that it's really great to teach your kids to ask
questions about what they're watching.
So, we're doing this in our house.
I don't know if anybody listening,if their kids love Ryan.
But the Ryan shows on YouTube basicallystarted, they were toy advertisements.
It was Ryan and his family playingwith toys and then, you know, your
kid watches and they want that toy.
So I would haveconversations with my kids.
(18:39):
Wow, you know, Ryan's reallyplaying with that cool toy.
Like, why do you thinkhe wants us to see that?
All those kinds of questions.
And then eventually we gotto the point where the kids
understood that that's an ad.
That's a commercial.
He's getting paid for that.
And, but it took us a while to get there.
But it's just encouraging thosequestions and kind of showing
them that that's not normal.
I mean, not, not, no, Iguess it's the new normal.
But just to have them question it makes.
(19:00):
it a little easier, I would assume,down the line when they start seeing
more intense information and Yeah.
Erin (19:06):
When it gets to the real complicated, this is affecting my
self esteem, or this is disturbingto me, or, you know, I really don't
understand this, you've createdthis atmosphere where the kids feel
comfortable enough to talk to you aboutwhat they're seeing, which is the goal.
Jessi (19:20):
Yeah.
Elaine Perez (19:21):
It's also, I think it's important to encourage your children to
avoid instantly reacting to a headline.
There's a lot of peoplegoing around saying things.
And if you don't know who they are,they have no background at all.
Jessi (19:31):
Yeah, you're right.
The instant reaction isproblematic all around.
And if you think about it in thecontext of your child, you don't want
them to automatically assume that justbecause they saw it, it's correct.
Because one day it could be about them.
Erin (19:44):
I feel like even if people disagree
with me, if I've put somethingout there, but it's well
researched, and I feel goodabout what I've shared, that
increases my sense of online.
Well,
Jessi (19:54):
I think pointing out to children that if they're engaging with media,
it shouldn't be making them have thatuncomfortable feeling in their stomach.
You know, it shouldn'tbe giving them anxiety.
You know, those are not feelingsthat we want to, you know, encourage.
And so it's good for themto pay attention to that.
I think even for adults, we shouldbe paying attention to that.
Erin (20:13):
We have to model that though, because I'm anxious
about my technology andwhat's going on online.
My daughter is going to seethat she's going to be wary of.
technology if she sees
that it's giving me massive anxiety.
Jessi (20:25):
Right, or she might just think it's normal and normalize that, you
know, and just think like, oh yeah,this is how I'm supposed to feel
when I come away from being online.
Modeling good behavior, I think, isprobably one of the best things we could
do for, like, our online well being.
It's, you know, it's theairplane mask scenario.
If you're taking care of yourself first,then you can take care of your kids.
So if you're using technology in away that is you to feel dysregulated.
(20:50):
Or you're contributing to, youknow, the spread of misinformation.
And how are you really going to besetting a good example for your kids?
And I know that that's alot easier said than done.
I struggle with it, too.
But it's just, you know,you're trying your best to
model that good tech behavior.
If your kid isn't allowed to be on theirdevice at dinner, you're not allowed
to be on their your device at dinner.
Like, that's just how that has to go.
(21:10):
It can't be Absolutely.
I can't believe it.
Elaine Perez (21:11):
I also Touch on something like getting up in the
morning and looking at your phone.
The problem with that is you may checkfor the time and for the weather, but
we need to put it down to the side andmake our children feel that they're the
most important people in our lives andnot what's on the smartphone or whatnot.
So, mm-Hmm, because again,there's role modeling there.
And if they see that, they all realize,okay, I'm not looking at mine either.
Erin (21:34):
My husband has one of those jobs that doesn't end
when he comes home.
Mm-Hmm.
. So like the phone is always ringing.
Yeah, it's so hard to not take those phone
calls.
Sure.
It's work and I'm like theycan wait like 15 minutes.
Yeah Yeah, then when her friendscall or FaceTime or whatever,
she's like, well, how come he cantake phone calls, but I can't.
Jessi (21:52):
Right, right.
Yeah,
Erin (21:53):
like well, it's because it's work.
Jessi (21:55):
Right.
Still.
Yeah, you know, I know their world isjust as important to them as our world
Is to us so they don't really see thedifference between your work and their
friends They're just equally importantto them So that makes it really hard.
Erin (22:09):
Um, so I guess that's where that family plan that you love so much,
you know, would come in and that wouldbe a great resource for this as well.
Jessi (22:16):
Yes.
Erin (22:17):
Does that common sense mean here?
Jessi (22:18):
You know, it is.
It's really helpful.
We sat down together as a family andwe agreed on what the expectations
for technology was going to be.
I actually just amended ourtech contract the other day.
Erin (22:28):
For what?
Jessi (22:29):
I made it so, cause we are very lax about the tablet used in the car.
If we're going like 20 minutes or longer,we're like, fine, bring your tablet.
But then I was like,what are we doing here?
This is ridiculous.
You can suck it up for 20 minutes.
So now we made it, if we're inthe car for an hour or longer,
you can have your tablet.
But before that you have to bring abook, you have to stare out the window
and be bored like I did as a kid.
So we amended it
Erin (22:49):
and is there nothing
that they could do to like
engage the whole car?
Jessi (22:54):
Oh yeah, we do that too.
Okay.
You know, I spy all those.
kind of thing.
But they, when they use theirtablets, it's their time.
So, you know, they're watchingtheir games or they're playing
their games or watching their shows.
So it's not really like a family thing.
And I find that with my kids, when I'm
trying to set a rule or, youknow, my expectations, I really
don't like saying, because I said so,which contributes to my sense of well
(23:16):
being because I know that I am, Ihave done my, my background research
and I know why I'm making this.
And I think that that encouragesthem to be aware of the decisions
that they're making and, you know, wecan do things together collectively.
And I guess the thing too is that,and this is just a reminder to us as
parents, like your kids, if you're doingthings right, then they should feel
(23:37):
comfortable to come to you with questions.
And it sometimes can bereally hard to answer them.
And, you know, want to keep that lineof communication open because things
can be awkward or confusing to explain.
But I think as long as we try our best.
Just to keep that line of communicationopen and even if they come to you with
some really inappropriate thing that theysaw, like just try and have them feel
heard and that you understand and you'regoing to try and help them and that way
(24:00):
they'll keep coming to you in the future.
Erin (24:02):
Part of that is,
oh sorry, is staying informed so thatyou know where to go for help if your
child does need help with something.
If it's not something that you canhandle in home, come to the library.
We have the resources, we havethe experts, we can point you in
the right direction to get help.
Elaine Perez (24:20):
And I think it's important that we may not always
have all the answers that ourchildren may be asking of us.
And it's okay for us to say tothem, I will look into that,
I'll get an answer for you.
So I think it's important, yes, usethe library, use, um, other parents,
um, talk about the experiences.
So show our child that we'relooking to get the answers for you.
(24:41):
I don't know the answer rightnow, but I will seek it.
Erin (24:43):
I love that.
I stress that with mydaughter all the time.
Just because we're adults does notmean that we have all the answers.
You can't just take it that that'sthe absolute truth unless they're
backing it up with something.
Elaine Perez (24:55):
That's right.
Erin (24:56):
step further and say, well, how do you know that feeling?
Or do you actually like, where areyou getting this information from?
Jessi (25:04):
Right.
Erin (25:04):
Just question everything.
Jessi (25:06):
Yeah, no, you're right.
I am constantly telling my kids,I don't know what I'm doing.
I was like, I don't know what I'm doing,
Erin (25:11):
but it's good.
I
think that alleviates.
Some pressure.
Yeah.
On them.
Jessi (25:16):
On them and on you.
Right?
Absolutely.
You don't need to have the answers,but you need to be committed
to helping them figure it out.
Erin (25:21):
Find it out.
Right.
And just make sure that you give yourchild the time and space to think about
what's being discussed and allow themto talk without judgment or, Mm-Hmm.
or blame or interruptionto just kind of get there.
Feelings out and pick an environmentwhere they feel comfortable
at a moment where they feel
relaxed to make iteasier for them You know
(25:42):
to talk openly and to listen.
Mm hmm.
You know what I mean?
Jessi (25:45):
Yeah.
Yeah, that is great
Erin (25:47):
And then letting them guide you if they're talking to you about
something that I don't you know Youdon't understand or that concerns you
ask them to show you or give you moredetails and listen carefully to them I
think sometimes my daughter will come toto me with things and like immediately
I'll want to like give an explanation but
you have to just step back and justlisten and just let them kind of get it
all out and then just choose your wordscarefully and just think, digest it.
Jessi (26:10):
Yeah, I'm very bad at that.
I am an instant reactor.
I'm always like, no!
I'm like, well, hold on, letme, let me think about it.
But you're right.
It's a good point.
Erin (26:18):
Asking open ended questions.
Jessi (26:20):
Yes, that I'm also bad at.
Erin (26:21):
Yeah, I, me too.
That's definitely one that I saw.
Jessi (26:24):
Good thing we're a podcast host.
Erin (26:27):
Yeah, that
was another thing in the researchfor this episode that kept
coming up as, as a way to kind ofinitiate these conversations with
your kid is asking, well, you know,like, what do you enjoy about that?
Or how does this activity make you feel?
You know, to make sure thatyour kids feel comfortable
talking to you and sharing their
true feelings, not
just you what you want to hear.
Jessi (26:45):
Right.
Yeah.
I think you're right too.
And like, my kids are young on the youngside, so I don't have teenagers yet.
But, they're seeing so manythings for the first time.
Erin (26:54):
Mmhmm.
Jessi (26:55):
That, you They could, they could very easily just accept
them as this is how things are.
And so I think what you're saying is true,is like you have to let them experience
it and then kind of process it on theirown and then you talk through it and then,
you know, like how did that make you feelor why do you think that is, you know?
I just had a whole conversation with mydaughter the other day about how come
girls have to wear shorts and boys don't.
(27:15):
And it was just like somethingthat just occurred to her and I
was like, oh, let's talk about it.
And like, so, you know, they'reseeing these things and you want
them to question it a little bit.
It's what you make of it.
Like everything else.
It's the same thing with food.
You can fill your body with junkfood or you could fill your body with
nutritious food and most often than notyou're just trying to find that balance.
So I feel like that's the same
thing with screen time.
Erin (27:36):
Yeah, I question a lot of those statistically.
sometimes because if you think like,well, what if you say a kid's got,
you know, three hours of screen time,how do you know it's not like an
hour of facetiming with grandparents?
Jessi (27:46):
Right.
Erin (27:46):
And then like, you know, a half an hour doing a math
game or do they break it down?
I don't, I don't oftensee that in most studies.
They usually just give you likea flat statistic, like anything
over an hour is bad or anything,
you know.
Um, but it's, you, you have,they have to quantify it in a.
different way.
Jessi (28:04):
Yeah, I agree.
It's also not realistic.
Erin (28:06):
It's very misleading, yeah.
Jessi (28:08):
With my oldest one, we, she didn't watch a screen for
the first year of her life.
We were, no TV, nothing.
And then the second one comes along andthe older one's already watching screens.
So what are you going to do?
You know, the kid's going towalk around with blinders.
Like we gotta, we have to figure it out.
And I think Ms.
Elaine gave us a lot of goodtips today on how to just.
Stay on top of thesethings and communicate.
I think it really always justboils down to communication.
(28:29):
Absolutely.
And you know, just thinking about howyou react to screen time and how you
react to navigating the online worldand then trying to process that in a way
that can help your child navigate it.
So, like we were saying before, ifit makes you uneasy to see certain
things, it's probably making yourkid uneasy to see those things.
So, communicate about that.
Talk about that.
You know, and then don'tjust immediately ban it.
(28:51):
Talk about it.
Because you'll be giving themthe skills to help them do
this when you're not around.
Erin (28:56):
Yeah.
The time spent with ascreen is far less important
than what's happening on the screen.
So I think that kind of also, you put itin that way, it kind of reduces that guilt
a little bit.
That's right.
Of when you're out to eat and want
to hand, hand a kid a device because
it's taking like two hours to getyour meal and they're right to tears.
Jessi (29:12):
They've done their best.
Yeah.
To get through it.
Tried.
Yeah.
You know, and also, um, if you'relistening and you don't give your
kids devices, good for you, morepower to you, please don't, don't
judge parents that do, yeah, exactly.
I can't tell you how many times we'vebeen out to dinner and people have
been giving us like, The stink eye.
(29:33):
It's like, well, my kid could be screamingright now, so I'm doing you a favor.
Erin (29:36):
Did you feel that way before you had kids?
Because I remember going intorestaurants, like, before I had kids,
and being like, wow, like that kidis so little, and they've been on
that device the entire dinner, and itnever even occurred to me what that
kid would be like without the device.
Jessi (29:50):
Without it, right.
Yeah.
Erin (29:52):
I just felt bad, like, oh, they're not even, like, interacting with the kid.
Yeah.
So I tried initially, like, whenI was really little, we would
have all these, like, you know,suction cup toys and things.
Like, sticking things to the table.
That's right.
And, like, I had this big tote
bag of, like, activitiesfor every possibility.
And it, it literallyjust got so overwhelming.
I'm like, I I can't becarrying this huge bag.
(30:12):
Like you want to do this for five minutes?
Jessi (30:14):
That's right.
Yeah.
It's a minute here, a minute there.
Yeah.
Erin (30:17):
So eventually the tote bag went away and the tablet came out
because I just, I was at my wit's end.
Jessi (30:23):
Yes.
Yeah.
I might be.
And I think most people are that way.
Erin (30:26):
Yeah.
But it is hard not to
feel like you've got eyes on you and
you're just being judged all the time.
Jessi (30:32):
Well, cause you are.
Erin (30:34):
Parents have got to be kinder to other parents.
Jessi (30:35):
That's a hundred percent right.
Erin (30:38):
That would increase my life well being.
Jessi (30:40):
Yeah!
Yeah!
Are there any words of wisdom you'dlike to leave us with today Ms.
Hulley?
Elaine Perez (30:45):
I know I think we covered a lot of information and I hope everybody
takes the time to listen to it andcheck out these two websites we talk
about, Common Sense and Google Safety.
There's a lot of information.
Please and Do not hesitate to cometo the library and talk to one
of our librarians and we'll shareyour thoughts with other parents.
We would love to hear from you.
Jessi (31:05):
Yeah, definitely.
Agreed.
And if you liked our podcast today,please let your friends and family know.
And us!
Yes, please.
We would love to hear from youwith your thoughts on upcoming
topics or just general feedback.
How are we doing?
You can email us at Podcast at PMLIB.
org and also just so you know if you'relistening to this through the website,
you can also now get our podcastmost places podcasts are listened to.
(31:30):
Yeah,
Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts,
all the all the places.
Erin (31:33):
We're everywhere.
Jessi (31:34):
So you can subscribe and rate us and like us and all the things
that the professional podcasters say.
Erin (31:40):
Um, and we will have a resource guide for today's episode, um, along
with all the previous episodes,if you'd like to dig a little
deeper into any of these topics.
Um, and again, thank you so much, Elaine.
Thank you.
This was like a massivetopic we could go on.
Jessi (31:53):
Holy moly.
Erin (31:53):
Forever about it.
Jessi (31:54):
I know.
Erin (31:56):
But this was a nice, uh, nice foray into things to consider to
increase your online well being.
That's right.
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