November 19, 2025 • 21 mins
How does the aviation industry look from the outside? ALPA president Capt. Jason Ambrosi found out in this interview with Elan Head, senior editor at The Air Current, and a helicopter pilot herself. The conversation covers industry trends, media perspectives, pilot misconceptions, the impact of emerging technologies, and how reporting on aviation can influence understanding and accountability within the industry.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:04):
Welcome to the Air Line Pilot podcast.
I'm Jason Ambrosi.
Today, we're taking a differentapproach, turning the microphone
around to hear from someone who's beenwatching our industry from the outside.
Joining me today is Elan Head.
Senior editor with The AirCurrent while we pilots live
and breathe aviation every day.
Elan brings a unique perspectiveobserving the trends, challenges,
(00:27):
and transformations shaping ourindustry through the lens of someone
who asks the tough questions andholds our industry accountable.
Today we're flipping the script.
Instead of defending our positionsor explaining our perspectives,
we want to understand how ourindustry looks from the press box.
What stories are capturing attention?
What emerging issues should webe paying closer attention to?
(00:51):
And perhaps most notably, whattrends are the media seeing that
might not yet be on the pilot's radar?
Elan, welcome to the podcast and beforewe jump in, tell us about yourself and
about your publication, the Air Current.
Great.
thank you for having.
Me.
so I occupy a bit of a unique rolebecause even though I am a journalist
(01:13):
as my day job, I'm also a pilot.
and have worked professionallyas a pilot in the past.
So I started my career as a newspaperreporter and freelance writer, and
at some point I got into travelwriting and actually luxury travel
writing, which was a nice gig.
And when I was on one of thoseassignments in British Columbia, I
went for my first helicopter ride.
(01:34):
I thought it was the mostamazing thing I'd ever done.
So I went home and signed up forlessons and I became a helicopter pilot.
And A flight instructor.
Well
me too.
That's cool.
Yeah.
So that was my entry into aviation.
and as I was, you know, learning to flyand beginning to work in the industry,
like any good freelance writer,I was always looking for stories.
And so that's when I started writing aboutaviation, initially about helicopters
(01:57):
specifically, and eventually fell.
Into doing that again full-time.
so I was the editor of VerticalMagazine, which is a helicopter
magazine for many years and hadsome amazing opportunities there.
Uh, about 2016 2017 when, electricvertical takeoff and landing aircraft
or eVTOLs started becoming a thing,I started covering those, uh, natural
(02:21):
progression in the vertical lift industryand became really fascinated with the
space and with all of the emerging.
Technologies that broughttogether began to focus on that.
and about three and a half yearsago, I moved over to the Air Current,
which is a subscription aviationpublication where we do a lot of really
In depth stories, a lot of technicalstories, which is fun for me to be
(02:43):
able to do some of those deeper dives.
but I do still write helicopter.
stories for vertical Magazine.
So
do you get to fly helicopters at
all
I do not enough.
so uh, whenever, WheneverI get the chance,
Alright,
well, very good.
let's jump in.
How has your view of aviation changedsince you started reporting on it?
So, this is interesting because, uh,you know, again, I started reporting
(03:08):
on aviation essentially when I startedlearning how to fly And I think like
most new pilots, when I was learninghow to fly, I was just so excited about
everything and I was like a spongeand I was just soaking up everything
that I was exposed to in the flightschool and in the larger industry.
And, not really examiningthat critically, just like,
(03:30):
yeah, tell me, let me have it.
Like, this is great.
but because I did start reporting aboutaviation, fairly early on, I did have
exposure to a lot of different people inthe industry and a lot of different ideas.
And I started to more criticallyexamine the industry and how it worked.
and especially so as time went onand as is typical in aviation, as
(03:53):
more of my friends started dyingin airplane And helicopter crashes.
then that really led me to, examinesome of these, assumptions, that
I had, taken for granted earlierin my career and start thinking.
More critically about howaviation works as a system.
And so in some ways I feel likemy reporting career has been
(04:13):
systematically unpacking all of themyths I learned in flight school.
Especially when it comes to, youknow, safety related topics and
I think the biggest one of thoseis that, it's always up to pilots
and it's always the pilot's fault.
And I think that when you're learning howto fly, there is a rationale for taking
that type of approach because, as pilotin command, you need to feel confident.
(04:35):
You need to, have the toolkitto be able to handle any
situation that comes your way.
But when you step back, there's a lot ofthings in the industry that, you know,
pilots are not directly responsible forin terms of, what type of safety equipment
is on their aircraft when they get it.
And so as I started,seeing the bigger picture.
(04:56):
I think that really changedhow I thought about.
Aviation in general.
Wow.
That's, good to hear.
Right?
Everybody likes to point the fingerat the pilot right away, so I know my
members will be happy to hear that,that, there are people out there that
say, Hey, let's wait a minute and lookat all the facts that are involved.
is that the biggest misconception thatpublic has about our industry, or is there
something else that you would say thepublic has about the aviation industry?
(05:20):
So I think that is,definitely part of it.
I think this myth around pilots andthat focus on blaming the pilot does
bleed over into a lot of the mainstreammedia and mainstream reporting and
to the public perception of pilots.
just because that stereotype isso entrenched in the industry.
So, you know, certainly I thinkthat is a big misconception.
(05:41):
I think also the general publicjust has no idea how incredibly.
Complex the industry is, and there's somuch nuance to how the system functions
and how it operates, that you just have noidea about unless you know you are really
exposed to it constantly and study it.
So I think, that's a big misconception.
And then also the public doesn't reallyunderstand the regulatory framework
(06:05):
that allows for different types ofoperations as well from, you know,
the part 121 or part 135 Or part 91.
so I think there's a lot.
Of confusion around that.
And I'll say at ALPA, that'sbeen our mission, right?
Is schedule with safety.
That, that we want the traveling publicor the shipping public to feel like
(06:25):
when they get on an airplane, it's safe.
It's gonna be safe.
And they know it's gonna be safe.
'cause of the hard work the pilotsdo, the regulators do and everything.
But that is hard work behind the scenes.
'cause they don't know all thenuance and all the hard work that
goes into keeping it as the safestmode of transportation in the world.
So what's the most
under-reported storyright now in aviation?
(06:46):
So I think there's a lot ofunder-reported stories hiding
within the over-reported stories.
And, you know, just continuingthis, uh, theme of blaming the
pilot or blaming the individual.
I know that we at TheAir Current were very.
Dismayed by some of the mainstreamcoverage around like the DCA crash,
and the focus on the actions of,the individual helicopter pilots
(07:10):
or the individual controller.
And I think, you know, part of thatis again, some kind of preconceived
ideas about, who's ultimatelyresponsible, how safety works.
and I think part of it too isthat it's just easier to tell.
Stories about people than it is totell very abstract stories about,
(07:31):
system safety and some of these moredifficult concepts to wrestle with.
So I think, that's an example of a storythat has been told a lot and yet I think
the real story of some of those systemicissues has not really been reported yet.
And that's something that we'reworking on the year current as well,
Are there any emerging issues thatyou're tracking that pilots should
be maybe more aware of that youwe're not paying attention to?
(07:54):
So I will say that I learned about oneof these issues on my panel this morning.
I moderated a panel on.
integrating New entrants into theaerospace system and I really learned a
lot about commercial space operations.
So that is something that as ahelicopter pilot, I hadn't paid
a whole lot of attention to.
in the past.
but obviously this is somethingthat ALPA is tracking.
(08:16):
And I'm starting to appreciate howit is, a major concern, for airline
operations and for the traveling public.
And it's certainly somethingthat I'm gonna be tracking
more closely going forward.
Forward.
Yeah.
It used to be, uh, not that long ago,there was only one launch every what
month or two, that kind of thing.
And now we're getting to the point wherethey're gonna be far more frequent.
So, I'm glad our team is on it and that,that it's now getting more awareness
(08:40):
in the media and the general public.
We've talked in the pastabout reduced crew operations.
it's being driven in largepart by future technologies.
Are there any emerging technologiestoday that you see having a
real, impact on our industry?
So
one area of technology that I think isreally interesting and where we haven't
(09:02):
necessarily seen the impact yet, but Ithink we're poised to see an impact is
in the development of flight controlsfor these eval aircraft and highly.
Automated aircraft.
And this is, a really fascinatingissue to me and something that I've
been covering and tracking closely.
but the interesting thing aboutVTOLs is, all these different
(09:24):
designs that are enabled bydistributed electric propulsion.
And you have, propellers all overthe place and so many of them that
it's, just not possible for anypilot to control them manually.
So you need these fly-by-wire systemsand they need to be highly automated and
in many cases, highly augmented.
(09:45):
with that as a basis, there's really ablank sheet for designers to come up with.
how are we going to control this aircraft?
And so because of that, you've seen alot of experimentation in this space.
So some of these evals anddevelopment, they have, a single
control stick and everything isintegrated into that single inceptor.
(10:06):
And
Then you have some eVTOLs that haveunified flight controls similar
to what you see on the F-35.
So there's just a tremendous varietyof flight control designs out
there and a lot of experimentation.
And the industry hasn't reallyconverged on what is the best
way to control these aircraft.
And what's interesting about that is itstarts to blur the boundaries of what
(10:32):
aircraft are in terms of categories.
And a lot of pilot training andqualification to date has been
based on this fact that, mostairplanes fly like airplanes.
Most helicopters fly like helicopters.
Never the twain shall meet.
And when you start, decoupling flightcontrol from, how the aircraft flies,
(10:53):
then that raises all kinds of interestingquestions around pilot certification
and how useful is this concept ofaircraft categories to begin with.
So I think that's something thatis really poised to, to disrupt the
industry because you're starting tosee people developing these new flight
control schemes, not just for eVTOLs,but also for conventional aircraft.
(11:15):
So there's companies out there likeSkyryse that are developing these systems
and installing them in helicopters, butthey could also be installed in airplanes.
So just a question of how areaircraft going to be flown in the
future is quite interesting to me.
Yeah, it is.
But on the opposite side of that,are there any technologies on
the horizon that, that as a pilotyourself, give you pause or concern
(11:37):
or should as an airline passenger?
So there are certainly a lot oftechnologies that I'm skeptical of.
And So I think Some of that came across,yesterday I, moderated a panel on AI and
aviation and, we talked a lot aboutartificial intelligence and specifically
machine learning and how difficult itis to, guarantee that technology or
(12:01):
that machine learning model is goingto give you an accurate result, which,
may not matter in some cases whenyou're searching for a pizza recipe.
but It may matter a whole lot on aircraft.
And so, while I think that there'ssome, half baked and not ready for
primetime technologies out there.
I have to say that I actually have a lotof faith in our certification system.
(12:24):
you know, aircraft certification isnot perfect and mistakes slip through.
But I think in general our industryhas a lot of guardrails to prevent the
premature adoption of some of thesetechnologies, that other industries don't.
So personally, I'm gratefulfor that, and I think that's
something that we should fight.
To preserve those standards.
(12:45):
yeah, I'd echo that.
I hear regularly, oh, our industry ispainfully slow at adopting new stuff.
we're also the safest mode oftransportation in the world.
So there's being slow and deliberateis intentional so that we get it
right and we don't rush into somethingthat we wish we hadn't done later.
And I think, going back to this ideathat there's different levels of risk,
(13:07):
acceptable risk, and different typesof operations, that does create the
opportunity to experiment with some ofthese new technologies and like those
lower risk operations or even uncrewedoperations and test it out there first
before we slowly, start working up thesafety continuum, which is a foundational
principle of certification for the FAA.
(13:28):
Uh, absolutely.
You're a pilot, you coverpilot related stories.
What do you wish more peopleunderstood about what pilots do?
So I think that the general publicmaybe has a bit of a split viewpoint
on how they think about pilots.
And in one sense, theythink of pilots as you know.
(13:51):
Super human beings, who,do heroic things and
aren't we?
of course.
but, and then a lot of times inthe same breath they'll, dismiss
pilots as like just bus drivers andtry to explain to you, they don't
even fly the plane these days.
It's all on autopilot.
And so there's this kind of, I dunno,schizophrenic view of what is a pilot.
(14:13):
And I think I'd like morepeople to appreciate.
the professionalism of being a pilotand what it means to be a professional,
which is, a generally normal person.
I'm not gonna say that pilotsare completely normal, but,
they.
oh, I'll take it, I'll take it.
Basically normal, puts just a ton oftime and effort into learning very
(14:34):
difficult skills and increasing theirknowledge and their ability to react to
events and that professionalism and thededication To being able to do something
difficult in a very disciplined way.
I think that's something that alot of people don't understand
about what it means to be a pilot.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I couldn't have said that better.
(14:55):
All right, so looking forward, whatstory or issue are you most eager to
follow or, see in the coming year?
The great thing about my job is thatthere are so many interesting stories.
I never run out of things to write about,and I have, a to-do list of stories.
that's, about 30, 30 stories long,which I'll get to most of them
(15:16):
eventually, since I've been coveringthe EVTOL industry for a long time now.
certainly I would love to see one ofthose aircraft actually certified.
I don't think it's gonna happen inthe coming year, so, we'll, we'll
put that one off for a future year.
Okay.
I. one thing that I've become increasinglyinterested in is the crossover of a lot of
(15:37):
this emerging technology, and especiallya lot of the emerging commercial autonomy
technology into the military space.
So earlier this year I was inUkraine writing about Ukraine's.
drone industry and it's fascinatingand scary to see how that conflict
is, driving the weaponization of thesesmall DJI drones that, You know, were
(16:01):
previously used to shoot weddings and soI think that there's going to be a lot
of interesting convergence of all thistechnology that's being developed in the
commercial world and really terrifying.
Military uses for it.
So that's something I'lldefinitely be tracking.
Yeah, that's, that raises aconcern for many of us, so look
(16:22):
forward to your reporting on that.
maybe before we're done, what, would youwant our pilot listeners to know about how
their industries proceed from the outside?
picking up on some of the thingswe've discussed, again, I think
a lot of people just have no ideaof how incredibly complex this.
Industry is, and they're notgoing to understand how complex
(16:44):
the industry is unless someonereally explains that to them.
And I think most people, are smart andwilling to take that information in and
understand it, if it's presented to them.
And so I think, something to keepin mind is that we should be willing
to go the extra mile to, explain tothe public these difficult concepts.
(17:07):
Or the complexity of ouroperations and why it matters.
And, I think it's worth putting in theeffort to, explain that in a way that
people understand why it's important.
I couldn't agree more.
You mentioned this a littleearlier in our discussion
something about the autopilot and
Members of the public to think, oh, allthey do is just turn on the autopilot.
(17:30):
There is so much more to this profession,and I think that it's essential on
my members, to take the time to pointthat out, that it's not about the sunny
day, flying and there's still a lot.
A heck of a lot of work todo, even on a sunny day.
But when you have rough times andmaintenance irregularities or,
passenger issues, you're helping theflight attendants deal with a unruly
(17:52):
passengers, whatever the situation is.
This is a, this is one heck of a,stressful and consuming profession
that no one should underplay.
that frustrates the heck out of me.
So I appreciate your comments on that
and.
that
general theme came up in our AI paneldiscussion and I think, with this,
growing enthusiasm and hype for ai, alot of people are now thinking, we're
(18:16):
probably not that far away from an AIpilot and our AI co-pilot and AI can
fly the plane, just as well as a pilot.
can.
And I think it was Amply discussedand demonstrated yesterday that's
just not the case and it's not goingto be the case for quite a long time.
I,
yeah, there's no, I saidthis in my opening remarks.
I'll, I'm sure I'll say it again, onmy upcoming panel here, but, there
(18:39):
is no replacement for the human pilot.
It just isn't there.
there may be some things that, theremay be some industries out there where
you can replace with people, but yeah.
Two, well-trained, rested, qualifiedpilots on the flight deck at all
time are absolutely essentialbecause of the way we work together.
The way we communicate, thinkabout the Alaska 1282 situation.
(19:02):
that outcome would've been very differentif we would've had, one person in some.
AI bot or whatever, I don't even knowwhat it's called, quite frankly, you
would know way more than I would, look,I'll go down swinging that we bring
an invaluable, feature to what we do.
Yeah.
And I, would not rule out the possibilityof technological advancements at
some point in the future that,does realize the sci-fi vision.
(19:26):
but I can say very confidentlybased on my understanding of the
technology that exists today.
We're a long way from that,
a really long way away from that.
I will, stand by that.
anything else you'd liketo let our listeners know?
You've got 80,000 pilots,listening right now and it's
just cool that we turn to Todd.
You'd normally are asking me questions,so this time I'm asking you questions.
(19:46):
Anything else you'd want them to hear?
I will say that I've had,just a really awesome time.
At the Safety Forum this year.
appreciate the opportunity to participate.
I've had lots of great productiveconversations, and that's gonna lead to a
lot more reporting in the months to come.
So stay tuned for that.
yeah, appreciate theopportunity to be here
(20:07):
and always happy to help.
Anytime you need.
thank you for joining us today, Elan.
For this interview and at ALPA's AirSafety Forum, the work you at the
air current are doing really matters.
Keeping the industry informed and askingthe questions that need to be asked.
We appreciate having reporters like youwho dig deep and keep everyone honest.
(20:29):
Thanks for joining us todayand I hope we can continue this
dialogue and future stories.
Thank you for tuning in to thisepisode of the Airline Pilot podcast.
If you haven't already, makesure you subscribe so that
you don't miss any episodes.
And if you enjoyed this episode, let yourfellow crew members know about the show.
If you have any questions or topicsthat you'd like us to cover, reach
(20:50):
out to Podcast@alpa.org to listenand subscribe to the Airline Pilot
podcast, or learn more about ALPA.
Check us out online at ALPA dot org orfind us on all major podcast platforms.
Until next time, this is the Air LinePilot podcast production copyright
ALPA 2025, all rights reserved.
Thanks, and have a safe flight.
Welcome to the Air Line Pilot podcast.
I'm Jason Ambrosi.
Today, we're taking a differentapproach, turning the microphone
around to hear from someone who's beenwatching our industry from the outside.
Joining me today is Elan Head.
Senior editor with The AirCurrent while we pilots live
and breathe aviation every day.
Elan brings a unique perspectiveobserving the trends, challenges,
(00:27):
and transformations shaping ourindustry through the lens of someone
who asks the tough questions andholds our industry accountable.
Today we're flipping the script.
Instead of defending our positionsor explaining our perspectives,
we want to understand how ourindustry looks from the press box.
What stories are capturing attention?
What emerging issues should webe paying closer attention to?
(00:51):
And perhaps most notably, whattrends are the media seeing that
might not yet be on the pilot's radar?
Elan, welcome to the podcast and beforewe jump in, tell us about yourself and
about your publication, the Air Current.
Great.
thank you for having.
Me.
so I occupy a bit of a unique rolebecause even though I am a journalist
(01:13):
as my day job, I'm also a pilot.
and have worked professionallyas a pilot in the past.
So I started my career as a newspaperreporter and freelance writer, and
at some point I got into travelwriting and actually luxury travel
writing, which was a nice gig.
And when I was on one of thoseassignments in British Columbia, I
went for my first helicopter ride.
(01:34):
I thought it was the mostamazing thing I'd ever done.
So I went home and signed up forlessons and I became a helicopter pilot.
And A flight instructor.
Well
me too.
That's cool.
Yeah.
So that was my entry into aviation.
and as I was, you know, learning to flyand beginning to work in the industry,
like any good freelance writer,I was always looking for stories.
And so that's when I started writing aboutaviation, initially about helicopters
(01:57):
specifically, and eventually fell.
Into doing that again full-time.
so I was the editor of VerticalMagazine, which is a helicopter
magazine for many years and hadsome amazing opportunities there.
Uh, about 2016 2017 when, electricvertical takeoff and landing aircraft
or eVTOLs started becoming a thing,I started covering those, uh, natural
(02:21):
progression in the vertical lift industryand became really fascinated with the
space and with all of the emerging.
Technologies that broughttogether began to focus on that.
and about three and a half yearsago, I moved over to the Air Current,
which is a subscription aviationpublication where we do a lot of really
In depth stories, a lot of technicalstories, which is fun for me to be
(02:43):
able to do some of those deeper dives.
but I do still write helicopter.
stories for vertical Magazine.
So
do you get to fly helicopters at
all
I do not enough.
so uh, whenever, WheneverI get the chance,
Alright,
well, very good.
let's jump in.
How has your view of aviation changedsince you started reporting on it?
So, this is interesting because, uh,you know, again, I started reporting
(03:08):
on aviation essentially when I startedlearning how to fly And I think like
most new pilots, when I was learninghow to fly, I was just so excited about
everything and I was like a spongeand I was just soaking up everything
that I was exposed to in the flightschool and in the larger industry.
And, not really examiningthat critically, just like,
(03:30):
yeah, tell me, let me have it.
Like, this is great.
but because I did start reporting aboutaviation, fairly early on, I did have
exposure to a lot of different people inthe industry and a lot of different ideas.
And I started to more criticallyexamine the industry and how it worked.
and especially so as time went onand as is typical in aviation, as
(03:53):
more of my friends started dyingin airplane And helicopter crashes.
then that really led me to, examinesome of these, assumptions, that
I had, taken for granted earlierin my career and start thinking.
More critically about howaviation works as a system.
And so in some ways I feel likemy reporting career has been
(04:13):
systematically unpacking all of themyths I learned in flight school.
Especially when it comes to, youknow, safety related topics and
I think the biggest one of thoseis that, it's always up to pilots
and it's always the pilot's fault.
And I think that when you're learning howto fly, there is a rationale for taking
that type of approach because, as pilotin command, you need to feel confident.
(04:35):
You need to, have the toolkitto be able to handle any
situation that comes your way.
But when you step back, there's a lot ofthings in the industry that, you know,
pilots are not directly responsible forin terms of, what type of safety equipment
is on their aircraft when they get it.
And so as I started,seeing the bigger picture.
(04:56):
I think that really changedhow I thought about.
Aviation in general.
Wow.
That's, good to hear.
Right?
Everybody likes to point the fingerat the pilot right away, so I know my
members will be happy to hear that,that, there are people out there that
say, Hey, let's wait a minute and lookat all the facts that are involved.
is that the biggest misconception thatpublic has about our industry, or is there
something else that you would say thepublic has about the aviation industry?
(05:20):
So I think that is,definitely part of it.
I think this myth around pilots andthat focus on blaming the pilot does
bleed over into a lot of the mainstreammedia and mainstream reporting and
to the public perception of pilots.
just because that stereotype isso entrenched in the industry.
So, you know, certainly I thinkthat is a big misconception.
(05:41):
I think also the general publicjust has no idea how incredibly.
Complex the industry is, and there's somuch nuance to how the system functions
and how it operates, that you just have noidea about unless you know you are really
exposed to it constantly and study it.
So I think, that's a big misconception.
And then also the public doesn't reallyunderstand the regulatory framework
(06:05):
that allows for different types ofoperations as well from, you know,
the part 121 or part 135 Or part 91.
so I think there's a lot.
Of confusion around that.
And I'll say at ALPA, that'sbeen our mission, right?
Is schedule with safety.
That, that we want the traveling publicor the shipping public to feel like
(06:25):
when they get on an airplane, it's safe.
It's gonna be safe.
And they know it's gonna be safe.
'cause of the hard work the pilotsdo, the regulators do and everything.
But that is hard work behind the scenes.
'cause they don't know all thenuance and all the hard work that
goes into keeping it as the safestmode of transportation in the world.
So what's the most
under-reported storyright now in aviation?
(06:46):
So I think there's a lot ofunder-reported stories hiding
within the over-reported stories.
And, you know, just continuingthis, uh, theme of blaming the
pilot or blaming the individual.
I know that we at TheAir Current were very.
Dismayed by some of the mainstreamcoverage around like the DCA crash,
and the focus on the actions of,the individual helicopter pilots
(07:10):
or the individual controller.
And I think, you know, part of thatis again, some kind of preconceived
ideas about, who's ultimatelyresponsible, how safety works.
and I think part of it too isthat it's just easier to tell.
Stories about people than it is totell very abstract stories about,
(07:31):
system safety and some of these moredifficult concepts to wrestle with.
So I think, that's an example of a storythat has been told a lot and yet I think
the real story of some of those systemicissues has not really been reported yet.
And that's something that we'reworking on the year current as well,
Are there any emerging issues thatyou're tracking that pilots should
be maybe more aware of that youwe're not paying attention to?
(07:54):
So I will say that I learned about oneof these issues on my panel this morning.
I moderated a panel on.
integrating New entrants into theaerospace system and I really learned a
lot about commercial space operations.
So that is something that as ahelicopter pilot, I hadn't paid
a whole lot of attention to.
in the past.
but obviously this is somethingthat ALPA is tracking.
(08:16):
And I'm starting to appreciate howit is, a major concern, for airline
operations and for the traveling public.
And it's certainly somethingthat I'm gonna be tracking
more closely going forward.
Forward.
Yeah.
It used to be, uh, not that long ago,there was only one launch every what
month or two, that kind of thing.
And now we're getting to the point wherethey're gonna be far more frequent.
So, I'm glad our team is on it and that,that it's now getting more awareness
(08:40):
in the media and the general public.
We've talked in the pastabout reduced crew operations.
it's being driven in largepart by future technologies.
Are there any emerging technologiestoday that you see having a
real, impact on our industry?
So
one area of technology that I think isreally interesting and where we haven't
(09:02):
necessarily seen the impact yet, but Ithink we're poised to see an impact is
in the development of flight controlsfor these eval aircraft and highly.
Automated aircraft.
And this is, a really fascinatingissue to me and something that I've
been covering and tracking closely.
but the interesting thing aboutVTOLs is, all these different
(09:24):
designs that are enabled bydistributed electric propulsion.
And you have, propellers all overthe place and so many of them that
it's, just not possible for anypilot to control them manually.
So you need these fly-by-wire systemsand they need to be highly automated and
in many cases, highly augmented.
(09:45):
with that as a basis, there's really ablank sheet for designers to come up with.
how are we going to control this aircraft?
And so because of that, you've seen alot of experimentation in this space.
So some of these evals anddevelopment, they have, a single
control stick and everything isintegrated into that single inceptor.
(10:06):
And
Then you have some eVTOLs that haveunified flight controls similar
to what you see on the F-35.
So there's just a tremendous varietyof flight control designs out
there and a lot of experimentation.
And the industry hasn't reallyconverged on what is the best
way to control these aircraft.
And what's interesting about that is itstarts to blur the boundaries of what
(10:32):
aircraft are in terms of categories.
And a lot of pilot training andqualification to date has been
based on this fact that, mostairplanes fly like airplanes.
Most helicopters fly like helicopters.
Never the twain shall meet.
And when you start, decoupling flightcontrol from, how the aircraft flies,
(10:53):
then that raises all kinds of interestingquestions around pilot certification
and how useful is this concept ofaircraft categories to begin with.
So I think that's something thatis really poised to, to disrupt the
industry because you're starting tosee people developing these new flight
control schemes, not just for eVTOLs,but also for conventional aircraft.
(11:15):
So there's companies out there likeSkyryse that are developing these systems
and installing them in helicopters, butthey could also be installed in airplanes.
So just a question of how areaircraft going to be flown in the
future is quite interesting to me.
Yeah, it is.
But on the opposite side of that,are there any technologies on
the horizon that, that as a pilotyourself, give you pause or concern
(11:37):
or should as an airline passenger?
So there are certainly a lot oftechnologies that I'm skeptical of.
And So I think Some of that came across,yesterday I, moderated a panel on AI and
aviation and, we talked a lot aboutartificial intelligence and specifically
machine learning and how difficult itis to, guarantee that technology or
(12:01):
that machine learning model is goingto give you an accurate result, which,
may not matter in some cases whenyou're searching for a pizza recipe.
but It may matter a whole lot on aircraft.
And so, while I think that there'ssome, half baked and not ready for
primetime technologies out there.
I have to say that I actually have a lotof faith in our certification system.
(12:24):
you know, aircraft certification isnot perfect and mistakes slip through.
But I think in general our industryhas a lot of guardrails to prevent the
premature adoption of some of thesetechnologies, that other industries don't.
So personally, I'm gratefulfor that, and I think that's
something that we should fight.
To preserve those standards.
(12:45):
yeah, I'd echo that.
I hear regularly, oh, our industry ispainfully slow at adopting new stuff.
we're also the safest mode oftransportation in the world.
So there's being slow and deliberateis intentional so that we get it
right and we don't rush into somethingthat we wish we hadn't done later.
And I think, going back to this ideathat there's different levels of risk,
(13:07):
acceptable risk, and different typesof operations, that does create the
opportunity to experiment with some ofthese new technologies and like those
lower risk operations or even uncrewedoperations and test it out there first
before we slowly, start working up thesafety continuum, which is a foundational
principle of certification for the FAA.
(13:28):
Uh, absolutely.
You're a pilot, you coverpilot related stories.
What do you wish more peopleunderstood about what pilots do?
So I think that the general publicmaybe has a bit of a split viewpoint
on how they think about pilots.
And in one sense, theythink of pilots as you know.
(13:51):
Super human beings, who,do heroic things and
aren't we?
of course.
but, and then a lot of times inthe same breath they'll, dismiss
pilots as like just bus drivers andtry to explain to you, they don't
even fly the plane these days.
It's all on autopilot.
And so there's this kind of, I dunno,schizophrenic view of what is a pilot.
(14:13):
And I think I'd like morepeople to appreciate.
the professionalism of being a pilotand what it means to be a professional,
which is, a generally normal person.
I'm not gonna say that pilotsare completely normal, but,
they.
oh, I'll take it, I'll take it.
Basically normal, puts just a ton oftime and effort into learning very
(14:34):
difficult skills and increasing theirknowledge and their ability to react to
events and that professionalism and thededication To being able to do something
difficult in a very disciplined way.
I think that's something that alot of people don't understand
about what it means to be a pilot.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I couldn't have said that better.
(14:55):
All right, so looking forward, whatstory or issue are you most eager to
follow or, see in the coming year?
The great thing about my job is thatthere are so many interesting stories.
I never run out of things to write about,and I have, a to-do list of stories.
that's, about 30, 30 stories long,which I'll get to most of them
(15:16):
eventually, since I've been coveringthe EVTOL industry for a long time now.
certainly I would love to see one ofthose aircraft actually certified.
I don't think it's gonna happen inthe coming year, so, we'll, we'll
put that one off for a future year.
Okay.
I. one thing that I've become increasinglyinterested in is the crossover of a lot of
(15:37):
this emerging technology, and especiallya lot of the emerging commercial autonomy
technology into the military space.
So earlier this year I was inUkraine writing about Ukraine's.
drone industry and it's fascinatingand scary to see how that conflict
is, driving the weaponization of thesesmall DJI drones that, You know, were
(16:01):
previously used to shoot weddings and soI think that there's going to be a lot
of interesting convergence of all thistechnology that's being developed in the
commercial world and really terrifying.
Military uses for it.
So that's something I'lldefinitely be tracking.
Yeah, that's, that raises aconcern for many of us, so look
(16:22):
forward to your reporting on that.
maybe before we're done, what, would youwant our pilot listeners to know about how
their industries proceed from the outside?
picking up on some of the thingswe've discussed, again, I think
a lot of people just have no ideaof how incredibly complex this.
Industry is, and they're notgoing to understand how complex
(16:44):
the industry is unless someonereally explains that to them.
And I think most people, are smart andwilling to take that information in and
understand it, if it's presented to them.
And so I think, something to keepin mind is that we should be willing
to go the extra mile to, explain tothe public these difficult concepts.
(17:07):
Or the complexity of ouroperations and why it matters.
And, I think it's worth putting in theeffort to, explain that in a way that
people understand why it's important.
I couldn't agree more.
You mentioned this a littleearlier in our discussion
something about the autopilot and
Members of the public to think, oh, allthey do is just turn on the autopilot.
(17:30):
There is so much more to this profession,and I think that it's essential on
my members, to take the time to pointthat out, that it's not about the sunny
day, flying and there's still a lot.
A heck of a lot of work todo, even on a sunny day.
But when you have rough times andmaintenance irregularities or,
passenger issues, you're helping theflight attendants deal with a unruly
(17:52):
passengers, whatever the situation is.
This is a, this is one heck of a,stressful and consuming profession
that no one should underplay.
that frustrates the heck out of me.
So I appreciate your comments on that
and.
that
general theme came up in our AI paneldiscussion and I think, with this,
growing enthusiasm and hype for ai, alot of people are now thinking, we're
(18:16):
probably not that far away from an AIpilot and our AI co-pilot and AI can
fly the plane, just as well as a pilot.
can.
And I think it was Amply discussedand demonstrated yesterday that's
just not the case and it's not goingto be the case for quite a long time.
I,
yeah, there's no, I saidthis in my opening remarks.
I'll, I'm sure I'll say it again, onmy upcoming panel here, but, there
(18:39):
is no replacement for the human pilot.
It just isn't there.
there may be some things that, theremay be some industries out there where
you can replace with people, but yeah.
Two, well-trained, rested, qualifiedpilots on the flight deck at all
time are absolutely essentialbecause of the way we work together.
The way we communicate, thinkabout the Alaska 1282 situation.
(19:02):
that outcome would've been very differentif we would've had, one person in some.
AI bot or whatever, I don't even knowwhat it's called, quite frankly, you
would know way more than I would, look,I'll go down swinging that we bring
an invaluable, feature to what we do.
Yeah.
And I, would not rule out the possibilityof technological advancements at
some point in the future that,does realize the sci-fi vision.
(19:26):
but I can say very confidentlybased on my understanding of the
technology that exists today.
We're a long way from that,
a really long way away from that.
I will, stand by that.
anything else you'd liketo let our listeners know?
You've got 80,000 pilots,listening right now and it's
just cool that we turn to Todd.
You'd normally are asking me questions,so this time I'm asking you questions.
(19:46):
Anything else you'd want them to hear?
I will say that I've had,just a really awesome time.
At the Safety Forum this year.
appreciate the opportunity to participate.
I've had lots of great productiveconversations, and that's gonna lead to a
lot more reporting in the months to come.
So stay tuned for that.
yeah, appreciate theopportunity to be here
(20:07):
and always happy to help.
Anytime you need.
thank you for joining us today, Elan.
For this interview and at ALPA's AirSafety Forum, the work you at the
air current are doing really matters.
Keeping the industry informed and askingthe questions that need to be asked.
We appreciate having reporters like youwho dig deep and keep everyone honest.
(20:29):
Thanks for joining us todayand I hope we can continue this
dialogue and future stories.
Thank you for tuning in to thisepisode of the Airline Pilot podcast.
If you haven't already, makesure you subscribe so that
you don't miss any episodes.
And if you enjoyed this episode, let yourfellow crew members know about the show.
If you have any questions or topicsthat you'd like us to cover, reach
(20:50):
out to Podcast@alpa.org to listenand subscribe to the Airline Pilot
podcast, or learn more about ALPA.
Check us out online at ALPA dot org orfind us on all major podcast platforms.
Until next time, this is the Air LinePilot podcast production copyright
ALPA 2025, all rights reserved.
Thanks, and have a safe flight.
Popular Podcasts
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
Are You A Charlotte?
In 1997, actress Kristin Davis’ life was forever changed when she took on the role of Charlotte York in Sex and the City. As we watched Carrie, Samantha, Miranda and Charlotte navigate relationships in NYC, the show helped push once unacceptable conversation topics out of the shadows and altered the narrative around women and sex. We all saw ourselves in them as they searched for fulfillment in life, sex and friendships. Now, Kristin Davis wants to connect with you, the fans, and share untold stories and all the behind the scenes. Together, with Kristin and special guests, what will begin with Sex and the City will evolve into talks about themes that are still so relevant today. "Are you a Charlotte?" is much more than just rewatching this beloved show, it brings the past and the present together as we talk with heart, humor and of course some optimism.
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.