President Dimondstein has a lot to address this episode. Legislative/Political Director Judy Beard shares how members helped pass the SSFA, APWU Retirees Director Nancy Olumekor joins to talk about the new Voluntary Early Retirement option, and Industrial Relations Director Charlie Cash comes on for a bargaining update.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Go.
(00:10):
Well, hello APWU family.
This is
National President Mark Dimondstein.
It's a pleasure to be backwith you with our podcast,
Communicating with You, the Member.
And I just want to remind you firstand foremost, so you don't forget
that you can download the podcastand all streaming services, including
YouTube, Apple Podcasts, Spotify,or wherever you listen to podcasts
(00:32):
.So on our podcast this time we're going to do a few things.
I'm going to be speakingwith our guest speaker.
Our dynamite legislative politicaldirector, Judy Beard, to talk about
the Social Security Fairness Act.
We're going to be talking to ourretiree director, Nancy Olumekor,
about the voluntary early out and theone time incentive, for retirement.
(00:54):
We're going to be talking to IndustrialRelations Director, Charlie Cash,
about updates on our nationalnegotiations.. So, we should have an
informative and interesting podcast.
And again, this is an effort to just findnew ways and expanded ways of sharing
information with you, the members, thevery foundation, of our fine union.
(01:18):
So we're really pleased to bejoined by our terrific legislative
political director, Judy Beard, who'sgoing to be sharing our victory of
the Social Security Fairness Act.
My congratulations to Sister Beard andher whole team, and my congratulations
to Retiree, Director Nancy Olumekorand her staff and our retirees all over
(01:42):
the country organizing the chapters whowork so hard together with the actives
and together with so many other unionsand a coalition throughout the country
to finally right a terrible wrongand get some justice going forward.
So, Judy, thanks so much for joining us.
And again, my congratulations on behalfof all our members all of you listening
(02:02):
in, , 40 years in the making forthis fine work and this fine victory.
so welcome sister beard.
how are you?
I'm doing pretty good today.
Thank you for having thissubject matter on your podcast.
Well, why don't you remind and sharewith the folks listening in what
(02:25):
the Social Security Fairness Act is?
was addressing why itneeded to be addressed.
And now that it has been addressed,what's actually going to happen?
There were two laws that waspassed over 40 years ago.
The first one was passed,but they cut people's social
security who earned the money.
(02:47):
by working and meeting the qualifications.
The windfall elimination andgovernment pension offset.
And they also cut spouses funds.
So it was just somethingthat was totally unfair.
Yeah, it sounds like a typicalway that Congress and and back in
(03:08):
1984, this was done on a bipartisanbasis, and we shouldn't forget that.
We shouldn't forget that, but it seemslike it's a way we're just trying to
balance the budget on the backs ofthe workers rather than raising taxes
for the wealthy and making them paytheir fair share for the corporations.
It's here.
U. S. As John Q. Worker now has tolose a benefit that you had earned.
(03:31):
And I think it applied to.
I think it's important for ourpeople to know that this is
just affects our social secure.
I'm sorry, not so secure.
Our civil service.
retirees.
So many of you listening, you'reunder FERS and you can say, well,
what does this have to do with me?
Well, guess what?
The people that got messed over plowedthe fields for the rest of us and we
(03:54):
stood in solid solidarity with them.
And I know that it justso you all understand it.
So if someone worked a second job,if someone worked while they were
working at the post office, somebodyworked the job before they came to
work at the post office or work thejob after in the private sector.
Those earned Social Security benefitswere not eliminated, but severely reduced.
(04:16):
Do we have any examples of howmuch people lost on their Social
Security portion of their retirementbecause of these unfair loss?
Some of them lost one third or moreof their earned Social Security.
And those first employees that startedin 1987, They were under not the civil
(04:37):
service retirement, but they were underanother retirement plan called FERS.
And that's why they paid intosocial security under full FERS,
but the civil service retireescould not pay into social security.
So they got other jobs, earned theirmoney for benefits for social security
(04:59):
because they paid into social security inthis other employment and they were cut.
So what does the passage of theSocial Security Fairness Act do?
How does it fix the problem?
Now they'll get their fullentitled money in Social Security.
And they'll go back and paythem for all of last year.
(05:24):
Okay, so it doesn't go back 30years, but at least going forward
there's some real justice here.
Absolutely.
We don't know yet exactly howsocial security is going to
implement in terms of the timing.
Or are we getting any moreinsight on that lately?
The social security websiteis pretty up to date.
And they're working on how they'regoing to roll this out when
(05:46):
they're going to roll it out.
And anybody who think that they'reaffected they can call the social
security office and they'll let them know.
Or they can call our.
APWU phone number 2 0 2 6 3 0.
4342. Now I'm repeat it Social Security'sphone number is 1 800 772 1213, and
(06:12):
APWU's number, which 202 630 4342.
So I hope everybody got that.
If you have any questions about thetiming, but we'll certainly as soon
as we find out when the retroactivepay will be in and when the monthly
checks will change, we'll be sharingall that information with you.
(06:32):
A. S. A. P.
So back to my other question, whichis how after all these years, 40 years
of an injustice, What do you thinkthe main ingredients this time around
that, that made such a difference whenwe got this across the finish line?
I think it was because of everyone's work.
Every member of Congress saw this assomething that was just unjust and needed
(06:57):
to be changed co sponsored the bills.
And they were introduced bytwo people, one from each party.
Yeah.
So it wasn't a democratic bill, itwasn't a Republican bill, it was just a
bill that was to correct something thatwas hurting, about 3 million people.
(07:18):
And what did our members do along the way?
Judy?
Oh, they made phone calls.
They were interviewed bynewspaper reporters and their
articles was in the paper.
They knocked on doors.
Actually telling their families andfriends and neighbors how unjust this
was and asking them to make phonecalls to members of Congress and let
(07:42):
them know that, you know, it's a bigconcern of the people in the United
States to correct this problem.
And and also something I learned in theprocess, too, because I always looked
at this is as just an unfair burdenon federal workers and postal workers.
It also affected a lot of state workers.
So we had teachers, firefighters, policeofficers and others who we found out were
(08:07):
really also being affected by being instate pension plans, being deprived of
their earned Social Security benefits.
And I think that and and Tell meif you think I'm wrong, but I think
that helped build the kind of broadcoalition between federal workers
and state workers, sometimes cityworkers that were able to all unite
around making this needed change.
(08:29):
Yes, we had coalitions that wasbuilt of, you know, workers from many
groups, not just postal and federal,but teachers, firefighters, police
officers, people that were impacted.
not necessarily, but cared aboutthe people that were impacted.
(08:51):
And we strategize and we decided to makephone calls all at the same time period on
just just to educate members of Congress.
I think the most important wasall of these groups and all of
our community and family memberswere trying to educate them.
The voters, the members of Congress,how important this bill is and that
(09:16):
they needed to vote and pass it intolaw to repeal this, just take away
this negative string around theirnecks that was causing them not to
be able to buy medicine, groceriesor live as they thought that they
should have been living in retirement.
And it's interesting too, because at theend of the sausage making is that they
(09:37):
sometimes call the legislative process.
You and I and others were atthe signing at the White House.
It was exciting.
So it looked all up and up andall smooth and easy, but it really
wasn't that smooth and easy, was it?
would this have been done if wehadn't built that kind of pressure
from below amongst the people of thecountry, making the phone calls and
standing up on this, in your opinion?
(09:59):
It would not have been doneby just explaining something
to members of Congress.
It was the number of people that wasletting them know how unfair this was.
So, you know, when we work together,when we fight together, we win and it
took people that wasn't even impactedby the bill just to understand that
(10:21):
an injury to one is an injury toall to get out there in the cold.
In the rain and attending rallies and justproviding information how unfair this is.
And it took a vote in Congress,a vote in the house, a big vote.
(10:41):
We got in the house.
We ended up with
327 yes and 75 no in theHouse of Representatives.
Which is a huge number.
That just shows how bipartisanit was, and that's what it takes
to make these kind of changes.
And that's why folks, the LegislativePolitical Director Beard and I, and the
(11:03):
union, has an approach of bipartisan work.
Try to unite around the issues andrecognize that a strength of our union is
that we represent people throughout thepolitical spectrum from left to right,
right to left and everything in between.
And we have connections with everybodyand we use that to get this kind of
accomplishment that helped everyone.
(11:26):
So again, my congratulationsto you and your team.
I know you worked really hardon this a long time coming.
We had people even inour Headquarters ranks.
This is why I never thoughtwe were going to get there.
What a great job.
And so we got there.
But now we're into a new Congress,and we have some real challenges with
(11:46):
a new administration that doesn't likeunions, doesn't like workers rights.
And so, just if we could talka little bit about how you
see the legislative landscape.
In this new 119th Congress that wasjust sworn in a couple weeks ago.
The new Congress certainly is aRepublican House and a Republican
(12:09):
Senate and a Republican White House.
And they call it a trifecta becauseone party controls all three branches.
However, We're going to approach itthe same way we approached the last
Congress because we have always lookedat committees who had our issues and
(12:30):
we met with the people on both sidesof the aisle and we educated them on
the reasons why we were supporting theissue or we wasn't supporting the issue.
So we're going to approach this thesame identical way because when you
lobby, you don't just lobby one party.
, you lobby the members of the committeeand you want the committee to come up
(12:53):
with a consensus that you believe in.
And our belief is for working classpeople, not just for a APWU members.
We don't just fight for our members.
We we fight for ourmembers and their families.
And do you already have, we, are wealready beginning to witness some.
(13:14):
efforts that negative legislationsetting back some of our rights as postal
workers in the working class in general.
Oh, yes.
You know, with every Congress, thereis a group of people that will talk to
the media or introduce bills that havea negative effect on our members and
(13:36):
their families and other union members.
So, right now, our members should,you know, pay close attention to our
website and our phone lines that wehave to let them know what is going on
that could affect their lives and theirfamily members lives and their brothers
(13:57):
and sisters and other unions lives.
So the fight is real and it's somethingthat people should take very serious.
And not just federal workers, postalworkers should take it real serious
because if they read the news or Youknow go to their union meetings.
(14:18):
They might hear that the PostalService fight for privatization
to stop privatization.
It's back on being targeted,
right?
. Well, Judy, thanks so muchfor joining the show today.
You got any parting words?
Yeah, I just want to thank youfor going on the hill, lobbying
(14:39):
Congress, on our issues of importance.
It's just not that our department,our members go and lobby their
members of Congress at home.
Thank you.
Sometimes they come to WashingtonD. C. But if a member of Congress
want to have a conversation withyou, you were always open to have
that conversation and we appreciateeverything that you do every day.
(15:03):
Well, I appreciate that.
And we're here to serve the members.
So it's it's a pleasure todo those kind of meetings.
And obviously, in this case, wecollectively Not just with the within the
APWU, but with the union movement and withthe communities, we were able to really
get a tremendous victory and a heck of agood way to start a challenging new year,
(15:29):
but one that underscores, as Judy putit, and when we unite, we fight together,
we have a much better chance of winning.
Thank you, Mark.
And I wanted to share with youand the audience one more thing.
Our retirees, our APWU retireesthat worked on this so hard, and I
know you work on all of APWU issues,but our fight doesn't stop today.
(15:53):
It continues on in the future, andwe'll be providing you with information
on issues that APWU is in favor of andagainst and we'll see you in the fight.
So congratulations again,and thanks for joining us.
APWU family, as I mentioned, we alsowanted to discuss the new one time
(16:19):
retirement incentive that includes also avoluntary, early retirement aspect to it.
We know it's on a lot of people's minds.
The M. O. U. That was signedon January 13th on some of the
implications on benefits as wellas, you know, maybe some red flags
for our members who are consideringto take an early out retirement.
(16:42):
I'm very pleased that Our hardworking retiree director, Nancy
Olumekor has joined us forthis part of the conversation.
So, welcome, Nancy.
Good to have you on the podcast.
Thank you.
Thank you, Mark, for inviting me.
I do want to say we just got donewith the segment of the Social
Security Fairness Act and howexciting it was to be at the signing.
(17:05):
And you were there withSister Judy Beard and myself.
But I just want to also give acongratulations to you, sister Nancy
and the retiree leaders and the chaptersand the activists for bringing something
across the finish line that shouldhave been fixed a long time ago, but
many thought we would never get there.
It doesn't happen by magic.
(17:26):
And we build a movement frombelow and it made a difference.
Thank you, President Dimondstein.
We certainly could not havehad the success we had in
the House and the Senate.
And the White House withoutthe support of the entire APWU.
And this helps so many people.
Not just retired postal workers,but retirees across the country.
(17:49):
So it was a great effort, and it's veryrewarding to see our actions come into
fruition through passage of law, whereour retirees will actually receive a
true benefit from this bill being passed.
So thank you, and thank allof our APWU members for your
hard work in getting this done.
(18:09):
So, as probably most of the peoplelistening know, on January 13th I signed
a memorandum with postal management.
That allows both people who have earnedtheir full retirement to retire in a
set period of time with an incentiveand also those who are now eligible
(18:32):
under the guidelines for an early out.
So could you share, Nancy, justthe difference between the two,
because there's a difference ifyou're already fully eligible or not.
And what criteria people wouldhave to be, qualified for to
be able to avail themselves ofthe actual voluntary early out?
It's called VERA, or VERA, sometimesyou hear it called, folks, which is
(18:55):
Voluntary Early Retirement Authority.
Correct.
I'm happy to be here to talk toour members a little bit about this
early voluntary early retirementoffer by the Postal Service.
Mark, under the Voluntary EarlyRetirement, , the minimum age and
service requirement is at least age50 with 20 years of Credible Federal
(19:17):
Service or any age with at least 25years of Credible Federal Service.
Now people want to know whatis Credible Federal Service?
OPM's definition of Credible FederalService under FERS usually includes
any covered federal service and thatmeans that you're having your FERS
(19:40):
retirement deducted from your paycheck.
So you could have worked for anotherfederal agency, let's say, for 10
years and then come into the postoffice and work for 15 years and
that could count towards 25 years?
Yes, absolutely.
Right.
Also, yes, that would counttowards your 25 years.
Good.
(20:00):
And buy-back military time wouldcount towards any of this or not?
The military time counts, but you have tohave a minimum required number of years
of service within the Postal Service.
Right.
Before that military time kicks in.
Okay.
So, a lot of people have been askingNancy you know, are there any possible
(20:24):
negative ramifications on BIPAC?
The finances of retirement checks.
If I go early, if I take theearly out, what kind of things
do I need to consider here?
Yes, the most.
Well, there are several things youneed to consider when you're looking at
taking the voluntary early retirement.
First of all, you need to knowhow your retirement is calculated.
(20:48):
Your FERS annuity is calculatedbased on your years of service,
and then that's multiplied timesyour average high three salary.
Okay.
And that becomes a percentage.
So if you have 20 years of service, thenit's times 20 percent times your average
high three salary and your average highthree salary does not include overtime.
(21:12):
It's your base salary.
And if you had a detail, you don'thave to worry about that so much.
And when I say don't worry aboutit so much, the postal service
is going to send every eligibleemployee an annuity estimate.
That annuity estimate will identifyyour average high three salary.
(21:33):
It is not a guarantee that that isabsolutely what you're going to get when
OPM gets your paperwork, but it's a guide.
It lets you know what your averagehigh three salary was over the
past three years or five years.
It gives you an idea of what your yearsof credible service is going to be.
So when we're talkingabout 25 years of service.
(21:54):
As an eligibility requirement or 20 yearsof service as an eligibility requirement.
That's a tremendous reductionin your base annuity.
If you're looking forward to 30 yearsof service, so that's a reduction.
In addition, if you're under yourminimum retirement age under FERS,
(22:15):
you will not receive your supplementuntil you reach your minimum retirement
age and your minimum retirement age.
It's somewhere between age 55 and age57, depending on your date of birth.
Now, if you're 60, with at least 20 yearsof service, you will get your supplement.
(22:37):
Okay?
So, under the, under the voluntaryearly out, there's an advantage
because you get to stop working.
There's a disadvantage because yourmoney is not going to be where you
expected it to be when you retired.
The penalty is that you have towait to get your supplement, okay?
(23:01):
And when you're getting your supplementand or your social security early,
if you work now that you're retired,you're limited into how much you
can make after you retire priorto your full social security age.
So there are a lot of things going onwhen you think about retiring early.
(23:22):
Yeah,
well, put.
And part of the reason we want thispart of the podcast is we want to arm
you to take this decision very seriously.
Yes.
But also, it's your decision.
I imagine, Nancy, we'regetting calls already.
You're the retiree director.
Should I take it?
Should I not take it?
Here, I got three years left to go untilI'm max, until I'm at retirement age.
(23:43):
But what do I lose?
What do we say to people like that?
The first thing we tell our membersis we cannot advise you as to
whether or not you should take thisvoluntary early retirement or when
to take your regular retirement.
We're here to assist you to make sure youunderstand what's involved and taken the
viewer what factors you should considerand how it may impact you individually.
(24:07):
And then the decision is yours.
You've got to make this decisionbased on as much information
as you can possibly get.
And that's what we'rehere to assist you with.
Good.
And in the sign off, in the memo,they talk about group counseling
and individual counseling.
So how important is that, doyou think, to this process?
It is critically important.
Any questions that you have, youwant to write them down so that
(24:31):
when you go to the group counseling,you get your questions answered.
They're going to be no more than10 of you in the group counseling.
Sometimes you can't getyour questions answered.
You have a right to individual counseling.
Before you sign on the dotted line,you want your questions answered by
management in that counseling session.
(24:52):
And that signing on the dotted lineis important because the memo itself
has two very important time frames.
One is March 7th.
Yes.
You have to have made adecision by, and you also have
to retire then by April 30th.
Correct.
So, based on this agreement, thedecision to retire early is irrevocable.
(25:18):
. Okay.
If you meet the requirements for optionalretirement, your minimum retirement
age with 30 years of service under60, minimum retirement age 60 with
20 years of service, it's optional.
under civil service, again, you're,you're probably fully eligible.
Yes.
But for everyone else, youcannot change your mind if you
(25:40):
want this $15,000 incentive.
That's right.
So it's gonna be broken up withtwo years, 10,000, one year,
5,000, the next, but it is $15,000.
And that's part of thecalculation people will use.
Correct.
As whether it's the right thingor the wrong thing for,, them.
We've set up some ways that peoplecan contact you and your department
if they have concerns and questions.
(26:01):
Yes.
Our members can contactus through our hotline.
The hotline phone number for APWUIs 1, 8, 8, 8, 6, 6, 8, 7, 1, 3, 2.
When you call, please leave a detailedmessage including your name, spell your
name for me and your telephone numberagain, 1886687132 And our email address is
(26:34):
VER2025@apwu.org, again, VER2025@apwu.org.
This information is also availableto you on our APWU webpage.
(26:56):
Great.
And also if light BlueManagement's webpage Yes.
Has their, a series of theirown questions and answers
mm-hmm . That people could access.
And we were in the process, theAPWU management are in the process
of negotiating a series of Q&A's to help clarify the process.
(27:17):
And hopefully that'll be out soon,and we'll post that on the website
and get that to everyone as well.
I do want to mention that in the memo,the the early out, the incentive
and the early out part of the MOU.
does apply at some levels to everycraft employee covered under the APWU.
(27:42):
That was a struggle with the MOU.
Well, that's a good thing.
It is a good thing.
Management only wanted to apply it toone craft and certain people and we said,
no, if we're going to do this we wanteverybody who is, has has earned their
retirement or they're close to theirretirement to have the opportunity.
Now, some, some of the facilities and someof the crafts will have that opportunity.
(28:05):
Limits as to how many people can take it.
We may not get there.
It may not be an issue, but if it isthere, we have we did a tiebreaker
type of process where it will bebased on total postal times time.
So, for instance, if you're in afacility and the percentage will
allow just throwing out a figure 50people to go and 55 people want to go.
(28:29):
The 50 with the longest postaltime will be slotted in.
And the other five by thatexample, unfortunately, would
not have the opportunity.
But we did the best we couldto make sure everybody of
every APWU craft was included.
And then, of course, for ourpeople listening we're glad
(28:51):
you had the opportunity.
This is a question, as I've traveledthe country in my 11 years of office
the question comes up frequently.
When's the next early out?
Well, I have an opportunity.
So we're pleased that we have the M. O.U. But for those of us who will still
be there working, we also want to makesure that the local unions, the state
(29:12):
unions and the workers themselves fightfor proper staffing because there's
going to be a number of people that goand we want to make sure that the people
of the country still have the kind ofservices that they deserve under the law.
And we're not going to be able toprovide this and those kind of
services if we're understaffed.
(29:32):
So on the one hand, we're veryglad you have this opportunity.
On the other hand, we're going to haveto up our fight to make sure, , that the
post office is staffed in such a way tobest serve the people of the country.
Okay, and Nancy anything else, , beforewe end this segment of the podcast?
Yes, I just wanted to remind our members.
that when you go to your retirementcounseling session with management, you're
(29:56):
entitled to bring your spouse with you.
Very good.
So you want to make sure becausea part of the retirement process
and paperwork involves your spouse.
You can't make that decision without them.
So you do have the opportunity tohave them present with you doing
that retirement counseling session.
Nancy, thanks so much for coming andall the good listeners out there.
(30:19):
Don't hesitate to callif you get any questions.
Don't call us about whether we thinkyou should retire or not or take
an early or not early out or not.
But do call us if you're having anyquestions, if you're having trouble
getting your counseling sessions,if you're trying to understand who's
eligible and who's not eligible,if there's a question about that.
(30:40):
And also the general questionsabout somebody implications of
taking the financial implicationsof taking an early out.
So good luck out there, everybody.
And for those who do retire,we know you've earned it.
We certainly wish you the best of luck.
And if you do retire, stay as a member
(31:00):
of the retiree department, right, Nancy?
Correct.
You can continue to be a member of A.P. W. U. By joining the A. P. W. U.
Retirees Department.
Our dues are just 3 a month, 36 a year.
It comes right out of your annuity.
And of course, if you are an officeror a shop steward and you're gonna
remain such after your retirement, youcan continue as a full dues member.
(31:24):
But we ask you to join theA PWU retirees Department.
Great.
Thanks again for joining us, Nancy, andyou keep up the great work out there.
And we, we, we know the retiree chapters.
And the retiree members are a greatresource for the work of the A PW
and the labor movement in general.
Thank you.
(31:44):
A couple of points I want to mentionbefore we close because these are a couple
of questions that have come up over thelast few days since the Vera came out.
When will I know whetherI'm eligible for the Vera?
The Postal Service has committedTo providing every eligible
(32:04):
employee a detailed letter withthe information concerning their
eligibility the first week of February.
So that's what we're looking at.
You should get that annuity estimate.
You should get your retirement booklet.
You should get detailed informationby the first week of February.
Also, we've had another question.
(32:26):
A lot of our members havealready planned to retire.
They put in their paperwork.
And they have an effective datesometime between January the
13th and before April 30th, theywant to know, are they eligible?
Yes, they are eligible for thisvoluntary early out, but they
must also commit to retire by thatirrevocable date of March 7th, 2025.
(32:56):
Right.
And effective before andeffective before April
30th.
Yes.
Okay.
Well, great.
And again, if you have any questionsabout those issues and others,
you can always call the hotline oremail the special email address.
Okay, Let's let's talk aboutsomething that we know and rightfully
(33:20):
so is on every member's minds.
And that is where we at with nationalnegotiations for new collective bargaining
agreement that sets the wages hours andbenefits of about 200, 000 postal workers.
Huge impact on our families and sowe want to delve into a little bit
where we're at what the, what thenext steps look like and have a very
(33:42):
honest conversation with all of you.
And I'm really pleased to bejoined for this part of the
podcast with our industrialrelations director Charlie Cash.
Welcome, Charlie.
Let me just give a littlesort of reset where we're at.
I think all of, you know, our mainagreement expired on September 20th, 2024
(34:05):
now we stopped the clock.
Meaning that we at 11 59 on just aminute before midnight on the 20th we
just stopped the clock and said, okay,we're going to continue to negotiate.
And what that does is 2 things.
We were making slow progress.
So we want to keep that progress going.
The craft tables were still meeting.
(34:26):
We were having a positive, even ifwe're slow discussions with management,
but by stopping the clock, it alsoguarantees that all our rights.
Okay.
Our whole contract isguaranteed to stay in place.
That includes our no layoff protection,but it includes our grievance procedure.
It includes seniority and bidding.
(34:46):
It, it, it, it includes our justcost protections against unjust
discipline and termination.
And it's so all of that was vitalthat as we continue to negotiate all
of those wonderful gains of throughgenerations of struggle stay in place.
And the whole time you've all beenout there in the work room floor.
(35:10):
Wearing your union gear on Thursdaysand maybe more frequently and saying,
look, we are union proud, say it loud,and we demand a good contract that
respects what, what we do, our missionto the people of the country and all
the good labor and the hard labor thatwe put into making the post office go
(35:30):
around, even, even often, and even inthe face of management's Mismanagement.
So we have some big news, which you'veprobably heard, or you will hear soon,
The National Association of LetterCarriers had also been in negotiation.
They preceded us, and after a longdrawn out process, they reached
(35:50):
a tentative agreement, and thatratification vote of the membership.
And that vote came in, andtheir membership rejected.
the tentative agreement byreally an overwhelming vote
of About 70 percent to 30%.
We did not weigh in.
It was up to the N. A. L. C. Rankand file members to decide what's
(36:12):
in their interest, but it makes itvery clear that whatever management
is willing to come forward with inthese negotiations, and it does take
two sides to tango is not sufficient.
For the members of the NALC and we aretaking that very seriously all the way,
not because of this NALC vote, all along,we're very clear about what some of the
(36:37):
goals and expectations of the members are.
And if we can't meet them with avoluntary agreement that can be put
out to a vote, then we're not goingto agree to a tentative agreement
This again is another example of thedifficulties and really the negativity
for all of us of being in separate unions.
(36:59):
So here we have fourdifferent postal unions.
We negotiated different times.
What one union does impacts, whetherwe like it or not, whether it's
good or bad impact, it impactswhat the other unions are doing.
But we basically so, but just to bring youright up to date with what we're doing,
we're still meeting with management.
We're in largely what's called economicnegotiations as general wage increase.
(37:24):
Cola steps upgrades, et cetera.
Those are the toughestpart of negotiations.
Folks.
We're not negotiating with acompany that's awash in cash.
In fact, we're negotiatingwith an entity that is bleeding
billions of dollars a year.
But it doesn't matter.
It is what it is.
So we're going to extract the bestwe can and try to reach a voluntary
(37:47):
agreement, but I think it's very likely.
Or at least somewhat likely and maybevery likely that we end up going the
path of interest arbitration, becausethis leadership is not going to agree
to a tentative agreement, put it to therank and file the committee to decide
whether it goes out to vote and putsomething out to a vote that we're not
(38:09):
convinced is in the best interest ofthe members and the very, very best
that we can get out of management so
let's hear from brother cash a little bitabout the the process of what happens and
how do we get to interest arbitration?
So, Charlie, if you could share first,what it is versus a voluntary process, and
(38:30):
then how do we even choose an arbitrator?
Okay.
How do we get there and what kind oftimetables might we be looking at?
And I threw a bunch of questions at youwant, so start wherever you want, brother.
Hey, thank you president Dimondstein.
And let me just start by saying,I, I thank all of you because.
The work that you do is is unmatchedin this country, and your dedication
(38:50):
to the American public is is unmatched.
And therefore, that's why it's reallyimportant to make sure that we get
a good contract that you're awardedfor the work that you do to keep.
America's mail moving to keepcommerce moving in this country.
And it's very important.
So there are truly 2 methods that theA. P. W. U. can can reach a contract.
(39:16):
As you mentioned, President Dimenstein,and that's either a voluntary
agreement or interest arbitration.
Voluntary agreement, of course,is where we, where we, we sit
across the table for management.
We exchange proposals.
We negotiate over those proposalsand we try to come to some kind of
agreement on What both parties can do.
Negotiations is not a one way street.
(39:38):
It is not a, the APWU demands this andthat's the only thing we're going to do.
Postal Service has a right to putproposals down, to put counter proposals
down, and they have the right tonegotiate some other things too, and
then we try to come to an agreement.
If we can come to an agreement on terms,whether it's work rules, Whether it's
(39:58):
paying benefits or, or what we call thefinancial package we can then present that
to the membership for ratification vote.
So that's the 1st method.
Voluntary agreement.
The parties at the national levelnegotiate, they agree some terms.
We present it to our constitutionallymandated rank and file bargaining
(40:19):
advisory committee that then can decideto send it out for ratification or not.
If they then send it out, they decideto send it out for ratification.
We send it to the membership andeach and every membership member
gets a opportunity to vote yes or no.
That's the first method.
And to be frank, that's the best method.
It is always best for the parties tomake the determination of what our
(40:43):
contract should be rather than puttingit into the, to a third party's hand.
Which brings us to interest arbitration.
Interest arbitration is when theparties do not reach a voluntary
agreement, or a voluntary agreementcould be rejected, but either way, the
parties have not agreed to a contract.
(41:04):
Interest arbitration then goes to,according to the law, that you know,
because the law technically does notallow us to strike, although we talk
about the Wildcat Strike in 1970.
when that our predecessorsso greatly fought for us.
The law right now requires usto go to interest arbitration.
(41:25):
So if we go to interestarbitration, that's where we begin
with a panel of arbitrators, athree party arbitrator system.
One of the panel is selected by the PostalService, and that person is going to fight
hard for the Postal Service's demands.
One party is selected by the APWU.
(41:48):
That person will be our advocateand will be advocating and
fighting for the APWU demands.
And then there'll be the thirdparty neutral and the third
party neutral ultimately will bethe one who makes the decision.
They're the
chair of the three panel party and theywill be the person that makes the final
decision on what our contract could be.
(42:11):
And so that's where we would be atif we go to interest arbitration.
We would be putting our hands into athird party neutral to make a decision.
We'll go, we would put on a case.
We will there could be hearingsover multiple days where we, you
know, in the last time, I believeit was a couple weeks of hearings,
although it wasn't like consecutive.
(42:32):
And and we do things like we would wewould put on panels of our employees to
come and tell the And mainly the thirdparty arbitrator, what our people do, what
our work is, how complicated our work is,how important our work is to the American
public, how we different from, say, anAmazon, how different we are from a UPS,
(42:52):
we go out and we make those arguments,
the law requires that we doComparability, what are we compared to?
So we, we put on these cases andthen we ask an arbitrator to, to
make a decision, this third party todecide what our contract would be.
And look, we've, we've gone throughinterest arbitration over the years.
And you, you know, mark, as you as, asyou know, over the last few interest
(43:18):
arbitrations, we have done a great job ofprotecting what our, status quo has been.
Some years we haven'tbeen able to do that.
Charlie.
I had a bunch of questions and yougot them all answered as I was going
by thinking about it, but I do wantto raise this prior to getting back.
So I just want our members tounderstand that there's a, we
(43:39):
hear the term arbitration in ourdaily life in the post office.
People file grievances on overtimeor on an unjust termination and.
The last step of the grievanceprocedure is arbitration.
So you hear it a lot in yourlocal union or your state union.
The arbitration we're talkingabout in terms of deciding the
(44:01):
outcome of our negotiations iscalled interest arbitration.
It's not contract.
That's correct.
Arbitration is whatdoes the contract mean?
Was it violated?
What's the revenue?
Interest arbitration and it's,it's, it's an important difference.
Interest arbitration means that eachside comes before an arbitrator.
(44:21):
The panel, to say we need a changebecause it's in our interest as.
The workers and management can comein and say, we need a change because
it's in the interest of the well beingof the postal service and their future
finances . So it's a very different thing.
The arbitrators are not deciding wasthe contract violating the arbitrators
(44:45):
deciding what's in the interest ofthe parties and they're trying to
merge Those interests of the parties.
So it's almost impossible.
Maybe that's an overstatement,but it's unlikely that management
doesn't get some of their interests.
From an interest arbitrator, justas it's unlikely that we don't
get some of our interests as theAmerican postal workers union..
(45:08):
It's a very different argumentthat we're bringing forward.
And to some extent, everything'sup for grabs, Charlie, because I
don't want to be one sided or, or,arbitrage of interest arbitration.
We're not afraid.
Would we rather havea voluntary agreement?
Absolutely.
But Charlie, do you have any thoughtson that interest arbitration versus
(45:29):
a contract arbitration approach?
No,
absolutely.
President Dimondstein.
And I appreciate that.
Well, because I look at I look at whenI started with the Postal Service.
Okay, so you know, many people out theredon't know that I started with the Postal
Service in 1994 as a non career employee.
(45:50):
I started as a transitionalemployee, which was the our PSE.
So I understand the PSE plight.
I understand the frustrationof being in a non career.
But when I started in 1994 atthat time, night differential was
10 percent of your hourly wage.
All across the board.
But the postal service arguedin the interest arbitration
(46:10):
during that time frame.
That night differential at 10 percentwas too high and was not in the
interest, as you said, Mark, it wasnot in the interest of the Postal
Service to continue night differentialat 10 percent of the hourly wage.
So, what the interest arbitratordid in that time frame right at
(46:31):
the beginning of my career was theyfroze night differential at the
current rates, which at the time was,was 10 percent of the hourly wage.
Nowadays, you know, in in my case, over30 years later, where he froze it out
when it was 10 percent is not even close
(46:52):
to that.
It's actually it's acrossthe board in the average.
Charlie, I believe it'sless than 5 percent now.
Yeah, it is less than butour wages keep going up.
So the percentage becamesmaller and smaller.
That's that's correct.
So that is an example of what whenit's in the, The interest of the
Postal Service was argued in thearbitration and the arbitrator ruled
(47:13):
in favor of their interest of ending10 percent night differential.
So, so that's a perfect exampleof what you're talking about
as far as interest goes.
So it is very different.
It's it's a completely different worldand and and how they look at those things.
So yeah, so these are thethings that are looked at.
(47:33):
These are the things thatthe arbitrators look at.
These are the things thatwe have to make sure we have
legitimate and good arguments for.
We have good evidence for that.
Yeah.
Thanks.
Thanks for those examples.
Fairly good ones.
Let let me see if we can nail down
I know we can't nail down dates and wecan't promise this and that, but just
(47:53):
giving the listeners kind of a sense ofthe way, the timing of the way forward.
The other thing prior to answeringthat, just want to make it clear to
the folks, listen, even an interestarbitration as it's going forward
as we go through the hearings.
We can still seek and possibly reach avoluntary agreement along the way and
(48:14):
maybe management reacts in a different waybecause the hearing is going well for us.
And then they say,well, maybe we ought to.
Settle because who knows whatthe arbitrator is going to do.
So, in the terms of the time and Charlie,
sure.
Well,
I,
I will tell you that I have beenmeeting regularly with management
as a matter of fact, I had a meetingwith management this week to discuss
(48:35):
the exchange of arbitrator names.
I think I will be ready to presenta list to the Postal Service within
the next 14 days, and, and I believethat I will be ready to present a
list to, of course, to, to you asthe President within the next week.
, but I'm not going to rush dates.
I am not going to rush picking datesand scheduling arbitration just to
(48:55):
say we've scheduled arbitration.
I want to make sure we select datesand arbitrate so that we're prepared.
But Mark, at the same time,I'm not going to lie to you.
Anybody who's sitting thereand watching the news.
seeing what is happeningto the federal workforce.
We all need to be concerned about what'shappening . And so I believe that we
(49:16):
need to be moving forward and readyto go to make sure that we're fighting
for the best contract we possiblycan in this political environment.
Because again, I do not believe forone second that we have a Congress
or a president Who is going to go outof their way to help postal employees
(49:39):
and unfortunately, some may go out oftheir way to hurt postal employees.
I
didn't want to say that.
I'm only
going with, you know, but you and Iare in complete agreement on that.
, well, that's all helpful.
And I just want, again, ourlisteners to know we're, we're,
we're ready to rock and roll.
We're not going to let the grass growon her feet, but as brother Cash said,
we're also going to make sure thatwe're putting on the most developed and
(50:04):
well thought out and well planned case.
We got great witnesses.
We got great economists.
We got great lawyers who aregoing to advocate the case.
We got great.
National officers who are going to betestifying and maybe most important
of all, we have great members who aregoing to come in and talk about to
the arbitrators what they do day inand day out and why that work should
(50:24):
be rewarded with the kind of demandsthat the union is putting forward.
And at the same time, we also wantto make sure as we build on the
past, but that we want to make surewe protect the wonderful gains.
Of the past and those things can comeup for grab, you know, many, many things
we got Charlie and our good listeners,many of the things we take for granted.
(50:47):
I'm sure I took for granted whenI was on the workroom floor.
How many workers who are fulltime have guaranteed hours
a day and 40 hours a week?
How many career employees with sixyears have guaranteed no layoff?
These are incredible things, eventhe seniority in bidding, that takes
away favoritism., those are thingsthat a union won, union secured, and
(51:07):
whatever method we go forward with.
Voluntary agreement that we can put outto a vote or an interest arbitration.
One of our goals is to protect thosegains and then build on them and
continue to progress as a a groupof workers within our workforce.
So,
Mark, if you don't mind, I just I justwant to say, too, is if we do go to
(51:29):
interest arbitration, I mean, this maynot be a short process because even
if we even if we get in and we havehearings that are, you know, 2 consecutive
weeks straight, we then get into.
There could be 2 or 3 months ofof the parties exchanging briefs
and giving them to the arbitrator.
Then the arbitrator could take acouple months to to make a decision.
So, I mean, the processcould take take a while.
(51:51):
Even ratification couldcould take a while.
And, you know, we, we just, we justneed to make sure that we understand
that this contract fight, it's notjust you and me and our witnesses
and our other national officerswho have worked hard on a contract.
This, this requirement requiresthe involvement of the members
and I'm going to ask our membersand I'm challenging you today.
(52:12):
You have what Union Gear Thursdays.
Personally, I want Union Gear every day.
Right.
I want everybody wearing union gear.
And if we go to interest arbitration,or we get to a ratification, we
may ask you to do some things.
We may ask you to do some actionson the floor, to wear a button or
a, or a sticker in support of this.
We may ask you, as we goto interest arbitration.
(52:34):
I like to use the termfight, fight, fight.
It is time to fight for our contract.
We may need to be in the streets.
We may need to be out demonstratingin front of the post office,
informational pickets and sayingwe deserve a good contract.
We need to get people to understandhow important Not only is the Postal
Service to the American public,but how important good working
(52:56):
class jobs matter to this country.
This country does not functionby billionaires buying products.
this country functions.
on people like you,
and I'm willing to fightfor not only this contract.
But I'm willing to stand up, and I wantour people to stand up for every contract
(53:16):
in this country, including our sistersand brothers in the federal workforce
who are facing challenges as well.
Well put.
Well put.
So, Charlie, any closing thoughts?
Because you actually gave me a prettygood segue, but go ahead if you got any
closing thoughts, and then I'll give mine.
Brother, just know that, that,that I'm in this for the fight.
(53:37):
I want our people in it for the fight.
We're going to do what we canto get the best contract for our
people, no matter what it takes.
And and we're going to fight for it,and we're going to ask for their help,
we're going to ask for their support.
And I always say at the end ofevery article I write, just about
every email I write, solidarity.
President Dimenstein, today, thatword means more than anything.
(54:01):
Solidarity, sisters and brothers.
Let's go get this done.
Thanks, Charlie.
And, and listen, it's thanksfor joining into the podcast.
APW family.
I,
but the most immediate transition.
Challenge in front of us is a newcountry, the bigger and longer run
challenge that's in front of usnow, and it's not going to go away.
(54:25):
And we can't stick our heads in the sandis the struggle over the very existence.
Of a public post office is here to serveeverybody, no matter who we are and
where we live with affordable rates, goodunion wages, family, sustaining wages and
benefits or whether it's the Elon musksof the world, these oligarch billionaires
(54:47):
that are going to rip everythingthat off that belongs to the public.
This DOG thing you're hearing about,this is not about government efficiency.
This is how to rip off the public sector.
Get rid of public sector workers, turnit over to the private sector, like
the musks and the besos and all, andthe Silicon Valley hedge funders and
all that, so they can make a profit offof what normally belongs to the public
(55:11):
we got quite a struggle ahead of us,and I think the question of postal
privatization, turning over to postoffice, selling it off to private
corporations for private profits, Isnot always understood and it's negative
ramifications and the next podcast,we'll dig into that question more as
well in the meantime you can listento this podcast to all your normal
(55:32):
channels, , Spotify, YouTube, listenat work when you got your earbuds in,
listen as you're traveling to and fromwork or going to the grocery store.
And we'd love to hear whatyou think about the podcast.
Whether you find it informative andenlightening and inspiring and also
any ideas you have for bringing onother guests, addressing different
issues and, and, and the alike.
(55:54):
So don't hesitate to weigh in.
This is your podcast, communicatingdirectly with you to members.
Be well, be strong,carry on as we fight for.
The best contract we can get,however, we're going to get it.
And as we fight to defend thiswonderful national treasure called the
public United States postal service,solidarity forever, APW family.
(56:21):
you can download the podcast on allstreaming services, including YouTube.
apple podcast, Spotify, or whereveryou listen to podcasts regularly.
Go.
(00:10):
Well, hello APWU family.
This is
National President Mark Dimondstein.
It's a pleasure to be backwith you with our podcast,
Communicating with You, the Member.
And I just want to remind you firstand foremost, so you don't forget
that you can download the podcastand all streaming services, including
YouTube, Apple Podcasts, Spotify,or wherever you listen to podcasts
(00:32):
.So on our podcast this time we're going to do a few things.
I'm going to be speakingwith our guest speaker.
Our dynamite legislative politicaldirector, Judy Beard, to talk about
the Social Security Fairness Act.
We're going to be talking to ourretiree director, Nancy Olumekor,
about the voluntary early out and theone time incentive, for retirement.
(00:54):
We're going to be talking to IndustrialRelations Director, Charlie Cash,
about updates on our nationalnegotiations.. So, we should have an
informative and interesting podcast.
And again, this is an effort to just findnew ways and expanded ways of sharing
information with you, the members, thevery foundation, of our fine union.
(01:18):
So we're really pleased to bejoined by our terrific legislative
political director, Judy Beard, who'sgoing to be sharing our victory of
the Social Security Fairness Act.
My congratulations to Sister Beard andher whole team, and my congratulations
to Retiree, Director Nancy Olumekorand her staff and our retirees all over
(01:42):
the country organizing the chapters whowork so hard together with the actives
and together with so many other unionsand a coalition throughout the country
to finally right a terrible wrongand get some justice going forward.
So, Judy, thanks so much for joining us.
And again, my congratulations on behalfof all our members all of you listening
(02:02):
in, , 40 years in the making forthis fine work and this fine victory.
so welcome sister beard.
how are you?
I'm doing pretty good today.
Thank you for having thissubject matter on your podcast.
Well, why don't you remind and sharewith the folks listening in what
(02:25):
the Social Security Fairness Act is?
was addressing why itneeded to be addressed.
And now that it has been addressed,what's actually going to happen?
There were two laws that waspassed over 40 years ago.
The first one was passed,but they cut people's social
security who earned the money.
(02:47):
by working and meeting the qualifications.
The windfall elimination andgovernment pension offset.
And they also cut spouses funds.
So it was just somethingthat was totally unfair.
Yeah, it sounds like a typicalway that Congress and and back in
(03:08):
1984, this was done on a bipartisanbasis, and we shouldn't forget that.
We shouldn't forget that, but it seemslike it's a way we're just trying to
balance the budget on the backs ofthe workers rather than raising taxes
for the wealthy and making them paytheir fair share for the corporations.
It's here.
U. S. As John Q. Worker now has tolose a benefit that you had earned.
(03:31):
And I think it applied to.
I think it's important for ourpeople to know that this is
just affects our social secure.
I'm sorry, not so secure.
Our civil service.
retirees.
So many of you listening, you'reunder FERS and you can say, well,
what does this have to do with me?
Well, guess what?
The people that got messed over plowedthe fields for the rest of us and we
(03:54):
stood in solid solidarity with them.
And I know that it justso you all understand it.
So if someone worked a second job,if someone worked while they were
working at the post office, somebodyworked the job before they came to
work at the post office or work thejob after in the private sector.
Those earned Social Security benefitswere not eliminated, but severely reduced.
(04:16):
Do we have any examples of howmuch people lost on their Social
Security portion of their retirementbecause of these unfair loss?
Some of them lost one third or moreof their earned Social Security.
And those first employees that startedin 1987, They were under not the civil
(04:37):
service retirement, but they were underanother retirement plan called FERS.
And that's why they paid intosocial security under full FERS,
but the civil service retireescould not pay into social security.
So they got other jobs, earned theirmoney for benefits for social security
(04:59):
because they paid into social security inthis other employment and they were cut.
So what does the passage of theSocial Security Fairness Act do?
How does it fix the problem?
Now they'll get their fullentitled money in Social Security.
And they'll go back and paythem for all of last year.
(05:24):
Okay, so it doesn't go back 30years, but at least going forward
there's some real justice here.
Absolutely.
We don't know yet exactly howsocial security is going to
implement in terms of the timing.
Or are we getting any moreinsight on that lately?
The social security websiteis pretty up to date.
And they're working on how they'regoing to roll this out when
(05:46):
they're going to roll it out.
And anybody who think that they'reaffected they can call the social
security office and they'll let them know.
Or they can call our.
APWU phone number 2 0 2 6 3 0.
4342. Now I'm repeat it Social Security'sphone number is 1 800 772 1213, and
(06:12):
APWU's number, which 202 630 4342.
So I hope everybody got that.
If you have any questions about thetiming, but we'll certainly as soon
as we find out when the retroactivepay will be in and when the monthly
checks will change, we'll be sharingall that information with you.
(06:32):
A. S. A. P.
So back to my other question, whichis how after all these years, 40 years
of an injustice, What do you thinkthe main ingredients this time around
that, that made such a difference whenwe got this across the finish line?
I think it was because of everyone's work.
Every member of Congress saw this assomething that was just unjust and needed
(06:57):
to be changed co sponsored the bills.
And they were introduced bytwo people, one from each party.
Yeah.
So it wasn't a democratic bill, itwasn't a Republican bill, it was just a
bill that was to correct something thatwas hurting, about 3 million people.
(07:18):
And what did our members do along the way?
Judy?
Oh, they made phone calls.
They were interviewed bynewspaper reporters and their
articles was in the paper.
They knocked on doors.
Actually telling their families andfriends and neighbors how unjust this
was and asking them to make phonecalls to members of Congress and let
(07:42):
them know that, you know, it's a bigconcern of the people in the United
States to correct this problem.
And and also something I learned in theprocess, too, because I always looked
at this is as just an unfair burdenon federal workers and postal workers.
It also affected a lot of state workers.
So we had teachers, firefighters, policeofficers and others who we found out were
(08:07):
really also being affected by being instate pension plans, being deprived of
their earned Social Security benefits.
And I think that and and Tell meif you think I'm wrong, but I think
that helped build the kind of broadcoalition between federal workers
and state workers, sometimes cityworkers that were able to all unite
around making this needed change.
(08:29):
Yes, we had coalitions that wasbuilt of, you know, workers from many
groups, not just postal and federal,but teachers, firefighters, police
officers, people that were impacted.
not necessarily, but cared aboutthe people that were impacted.
(08:51):
And we strategize and we decided to makephone calls all at the same time period on
just just to educate members of Congress.
I think the most important wasall of these groups and all of
our community and family memberswere trying to educate them.
The voters, the members of Congress,how important this bill is and that
(09:16):
they needed to vote and pass it intolaw to repeal this, just take away
this negative string around theirnecks that was causing them not to
be able to buy medicine, groceriesor live as they thought that they
should have been living in retirement.
And it's interesting too, because at theend of the sausage making is that they
(09:37):
sometimes call the legislative process.
You and I and others were atthe signing at the White House.
It was exciting.
So it looked all up and up andall smooth and easy, but it really
wasn't that smooth and easy, was it?
would this have been done if wehadn't built that kind of pressure
from below amongst the people of thecountry, making the phone calls and
standing up on this, in your opinion?
(09:59):
It would not have been doneby just explaining something
to members of Congress.
It was the number of people that wasletting them know how unfair this was.
So, you know, when we work together,when we fight together, we win and it
took people that wasn't even impactedby the bill just to understand that
(10:21):
an injury to one is an injury toall to get out there in the cold.
In the rain and attending rallies and justproviding information how unfair this is.
And it took a vote in Congress,a vote in the house, a big vote.
(10:41):
We got in the house.
We ended up with
327 yes and 75 no in theHouse of Representatives.
Which is a huge number.
That just shows how bipartisanit was, and that's what it takes
to make these kind of changes.
And that's why folks, the LegislativePolitical Director Beard and I, and the
(11:03):
union, has an approach of bipartisan work.
Try to unite around the issues andrecognize that a strength of our union is
that we represent people throughout thepolitical spectrum from left to right,
right to left and everything in between.
And we have connections with everybodyand we use that to get this kind of
accomplishment that helped everyone.
(11:26):
So again, my congratulationsto you and your team.
I know you worked really hardon this a long time coming.
We had people even inour Headquarters ranks.
This is why I never thoughtwe were going to get there.
What a great job.
And so we got there.
But now we're into a new Congress,and we have some real challenges with
(11:46):
a new administration that doesn't likeunions, doesn't like workers rights.
And so, just if we could talka little bit about how you
see the legislative landscape.
In this new 119th Congress that wasjust sworn in a couple weeks ago.
The new Congress certainly is aRepublican House and a Republican
(12:09):
Senate and a Republican White House.
And they call it a trifecta becauseone party controls all three branches.
However, We're going to approach itthe same way we approached the last
Congress because we have always lookedat committees who had our issues and
(12:30):
we met with the people on both sidesof the aisle and we educated them on
the reasons why we were supporting theissue or we wasn't supporting the issue.
So we're going to approach this thesame identical way because when you
lobby, you don't just lobby one party.
, you lobby the members of the committeeand you want the committee to come up
(12:53):
with a consensus that you believe in.
And our belief is for working classpeople, not just for a APWU members.
We don't just fight for our members.
We we fight for ourmembers and their families.
And do you already have, we, are wealready beginning to witness some.
(13:14):
efforts that negative legislationsetting back some of our rights as postal
workers in the working class in general.
Oh, yes.
You know, with every Congress, thereis a group of people that will talk to
the media or introduce bills that havea negative effect on our members and
(13:36):
their families and other union members.
So, right now, our members should,you know, pay close attention to our
website and our phone lines that wehave to let them know what is going on
that could affect their lives and theirfamily members lives and their brothers
(13:57):
and sisters and other unions lives.
So the fight is real and it's somethingthat people should take very serious.
And not just federal workers, postalworkers should take it real serious
because if they read the news or Youknow go to their union meetings.
(14:18):
They might hear that the PostalService fight for privatization
to stop privatization.
It's back on being targeted,
right?
. Well, Judy, thanks so muchfor joining the show today.
You got any parting words?
Yeah, I just want to thank youfor going on the hill, lobbying
(14:39):
Congress, on our issues of importance.
It's just not that our department,our members go and lobby their
members of Congress at home.
Thank you.
Sometimes they come to WashingtonD. C. But if a member of Congress
want to have a conversation withyou, you were always open to have
that conversation and we appreciateeverything that you do every day.
(15:03):
Well, I appreciate that.
And we're here to serve the members.
So it's it's a pleasure todo those kind of meetings.
And obviously, in this case, wecollectively Not just with the within the
APWU, but with the union movement and withthe communities, we were able to really
get a tremendous victory and a heck of agood way to start a challenging new year,
(15:29):
but one that underscores, as Judy putit, and when we unite, we fight together,
we have a much better chance of winning.
Thank you, Mark.
And I wanted to share with youand the audience one more thing.
Our retirees, our APWU retireesthat worked on this so hard, and I
know you work on all of APWU issues,but our fight doesn't stop today.
(15:53):
It continues on in the future, andwe'll be providing you with information
on issues that APWU is in favor of andagainst and we'll see you in the fight.
So congratulations again,and thanks for joining us.
APWU family, as I mentioned, we alsowanted to discuss the new one time
(16:19):
retirement incentive that includes also avoluntary, early retirement aspect to it.
We know it's on a lot of people's minds.
The M. O. U. That was signedon January 13th on some of the
implications on benefits as wellas, you know, maybe some red flags
for our members who are consideringto take an early out retirement.
(16:42):
I'm very pleased that Our hardworking retiree director, Nancy
Olumekor has joined us forthis part of the conversation.
So, welcome, Nancy.
Good to have you on the podcast.
Thank you.
Thank you, Mark, for inviting me.
I do want to say we just got donewith the segment of the Social
Security Fairness Act and howexciting it was to be at the signing.
(17:05):
And you were there withSister Judy Beard and myself.
But I just want to also give acongratulations to you, sister Nancy
and the retiree leaders and the chaptersand the activists for bringing something
across the finish line that shouldhave been fixed a long time ago, but
many thought we would never get there.
It doesn't happen by magic.
(17:26):
And we build a movement frombelow and it made a difference.
Thank you, President Dimondstein.
We certainly could not havehad the success we had in
the House and the Senate.
And the White House withoutthe support of the entire APWU.
And this helps so many people.
Not just retired postal workers,but retirees across the country.
(17:49):
So it was a great effort, and it's veryrewarding to see our actions come into
fruition through passage of law, whereour retirees will actually receive a
true benefit from this bill being passed.
So thank you, and thank allof our APWU members for your
hard work in getting this done.
(18:09):
So, as probably most of the peoplelistening know, on January 13th I signed
a memorandum with postal management.
That allows both people who have earnedtheir full retirement to retire in a
set period of time with an incentiveand also those who are now eligible
(18:32):
under the guidelines for an early out.
So could you share, Nancy, justthe difference between the two,
because there's a difference ifyou're already fully eligible or not.
And what criteria people wouldhave to be, qualified for to
be able to avail themselves ofthe actual voluntary early out?
It's called VERA, or VERA, sometimesyou hear it called, folks, which is
(18:55):
Voluntary Early Retirement Authority.
Correct.
I'm happy to be here to talk toour members a little bit about this
early voluntary early retirementoffer by the Postal Service.
Mark, under the Voluntary EarlyRetirement, , the minimum age and
service requirement is at least age50 with 20 years of Credible Federal
(19:17):
Service or any age with at least 25years of Credible Federal Service.
Now people want to know whatis Credible Federal Service?
OPM's definition of Credible FederalService under FERS usually includes
any covered federal service and thatmeans that you're having your FERS
(19:40):
retirement deducted from your paycheck.
So you could have worked for anotherfederal agency, let's say, for 10
years and then come into the postoffice and work for 15 years and
that could count towards 25 years?
Yes, absolutely.
Right.
Also, yes, that would counttowards your 25 years.
Good.
(20:00):
And buy-back military time wouldcount towards any of this or not?
The military time counts, but you have tohave a minimum required number of years
of service within the Postal Service.
Right.
Before that military time kicks in.
Okay.
So, a lot of people have been askingNancy you know, are there any possible
(20:24):
negative ramifications on BIPAC?
The finances of retirement checks.
If I go early, if I take theearly out, what kind of things
do I need to consider here?
Yes, the most.
Well, there are several things youneed to consider when you're looking at
taking the voluntary early retirement.
First of all, you need to knowhow your retirement is calculated.
(20:48):
Your FERS annuity is calculatedbased on your years of service,
and then that's multiplied timesyour average high three salary.
Okay.
And that becomes a percentage.
So if you have 20 years of service, thenit's times 20 percent times your average
high three salary and your average highthree salary does not include overtime.
(21:12):
It's your base salary.
And if you had a detail, you don'thave to worry about that so much.
And when I say don't worry aboutit so much, the postal service
is going to send every eligibleemployee an annuity estimate.
That annuity estimate will identifyyour average high three salary.
(21:33):
It is not a guarantee that that isabsolutely what you're going to get when
OPM gets your paperwork, but it's a guide.
It lets you know what your averagehigh three salary was over the
past three years or five years.
It gives you an idea of what your yearsof credible service is going to be.
So when we're talkingabout 25 years of service.
(21:54):
As an eligibility requirement or 20 yearsof service as an eligibility requirement.
That's a tremendous reductionin your base annuity.
If you're looking forward to 30 yearsof service, so that's a reduction.
In addition, if you're under yourminimum retirement age under FERS,
(22:15):
you will not receive your supplementuntil you reach your minimum retirement
age and your minimum retirement age.
It's somewhere between age 55 and age57, depending on your date of birth.
Now, if you're 60, with at least 20 yearsof service, you will get your supplement.
(22:37):
Okay?
So, under the, under the voluntaryearly out, there's an advantage
because you get to stop working.
There's a disadvantage because yourmoney is not going to be where you
expected it to be when you retired.
The penalty is that you have towait to get your supplement, okay?
(23:01):
And when you're getting your supplementand or your social security early,
if you work now that you're retired,you're limited into how much you
can make after you retire priorto your full social security age.
So there are a lot of things going onwhen you think about retiring early.
(23:22):
Yeah,
well, put.
And part of the reason we want thispart of the podcast is we want to arm
you to take this decision very seriously.
Yes.
But also, it's your decision.
I imagine, Nancy, we'regetting calls already.
You're the retiree director.
Should I take it?
Should I not take it?
Here, I got three years left to go untilI'm max, until I'm at retirement age.
(23:43):
But what do I lose?
What do we say to people like that?
The first thing we tell our membersis we cannot advise you as to
whether or not you should take thisvoluntary early retirement or when
to take your regular retirement.
We're here to assist you to make sure youunderstand what's involved and taken the
viewer what factors you should considerand how it may impact you individually.
(24:07):
And then the decision is yours.
You've got to make this decisionbased on as much information
as you can possibly get.
And that's what we'rehere to assist you with.
Good.
And in the sign off, in the memo,they talk about group counseling
and individual counseling.
So how important is that, doyou think, to this process?
It is critically important.
Any questions that you have, youwant to write them down so that
(24:31):
when you go to the group counseling,you get your questions answered.
They're going to be no more than10 of you in the group counseling.
Sometimes you can't getyour questions answered.
You have a right to individual counseling.
Before you sign on the dotted line,you want your questions answered by
management in that counseling session.
(24:52):
And that signing on the dotted lineis important because the memo itself
has two very important time frames.
One is March 7th.
Yes.
You have to have made adecision by, and you also have
to retire then by April 30th.
Correct.
So, based on this agreement, thedecision to retire early is irrevocable.
(25:18):
. Okay.
If you meet the requirements for optionalretirement, your minimum retirement
age with 30 years of service under60, minimum retirement age 60 with
20 years of service, it's optional.
under civil service, again, you're,you're probably fully eligible.
Yes.
But for everyone else, youcannot change your mind if you
(25:40):
want this $15,000 incentive.
That's right.
So it's gonna be broken up withtwo years, 10,000, one year,
5,000, the next, but it is $15,000.
And that's part of thecalculation people will use.
Correct.
As whether it's the right thingor the wrong thing for,, them.
We've set up some ways that peoplecan contact you and your department
if they have concerns and questions.
(26:01):
Yes.
Our members can contactus through our hotline.
The hotline phone number for APWUIs 1, 8, 8, 8, 6, 6, 8, 7, 1, 3, 2.
When you call, please leave a detailedmessage including your name, spell your
name for me and your telephone numberagain, 1886687132 And our email address is
(26:34):
VER2025@apwu.org, again, VER2025@apwu.org.
This information is also availableto you on our APWU webpage.
(26:56):
Great.
And also if light BlueManagement's webpage Yes.
Has their, a series of theirown questions and answers
mm-hmm . That people could access.
And we were in the process, theAPWU management are in the process
of negotiating a series of Q&A's to help clarify the process.
(27:17):
And hopefully that'll be out soon,and we'll post that on the website
and get that to everyone as well.
I do want to mention that in the memo,the the early out, the incentive
and the early out part of the MOU.
does apply at some levels to everycraft employee covered under the APWU.
(27:42):
That was a struggle with the MOU.
Well, that's a good thing.
It is a good thing.
Management only wanted to apply it toone craft and certain people and we said,
no, if we're going to do this we wanteverybody who is, has has earned their
retirement or they're close to theirretirement to have the opportunity.
Now, some, some of the facilities and someof the crafts will have that opportunity.
(28:05):
Limits as to how many people can take it.
We may not get there.
It may not be an issue, but if it isthere, we have we did a tiebreaker
type of process where it will bebased on total postal times time.
So, for instance, if you're in afacility and the percentage will
allow just throwing out a figure 50people to go and 55 people want to go.
(28:29):
The 50 with the longest postaltime will be slotted in.
And the other five by thatexample, unfortunately, would
not have the opportunity.
But we did the best we couldto make sure everybody of
every APWU craft was included.
And then, of course, for ourpeople listening we're glad
(28:51):
you had the opportunity.
This is a question, as I've traveledthe country in my 11 years of office
the question comes up frequently.
When's the next early out?
Well, I have an opportunity.
So we're pleased that we have the M. O.U. But for those of us who will still
be there working, we also want to makesure that the local unions, the state
(29:12):
unions and the workers themselves fightfor proper staffing because there's
going to be a number of people that goand we want to make sure that the people
of the country still have the kind ofservices that they deserve under the law.
And we're not going to be able toprovide this and those kind of
services if we're understaffed.
(29:32):
So on the one hand, we're veryglad you have this opportunity.
On the other hand, we're going to haveto up our fight to make sure, , that the
post office is staffed in such a way tobest serve the people of the country.
Okay, and Nancy anything else, , beforewe end this segment of the podcast?
Yes, I just wanted to remind our members.
that when you go to your retirementcounseling session with management, you're
(29:56):
entitled to bring your spouse with you.
Very good.
So you want to make sure becausea part of the retirement process
and paperwork involves your spouse.
You can't make that decision without them.
So you do have the opportunity tohave them present with you doing
that retirement counseling session.
Nancy, thanks so much for coming andall the good listeners out there.
(30:19):
Don't hesitate to callif you get any questions.
Don't call us about whether we thinkyou should retire or not or take
an early or not early out or not.
But do call us if you're having anyquestions, if you're having trouble
getting your counseling sessions,if you're trying to understand who's
eligible and who's not eligible,if there's a question about that.
(30:40):
And also the general questionsabout somebody implications of
taking the financial implicationsof taking an early out.
So good luck out there, everybody.
And for those who do retire,we know you've earned it.
We certainly wish you the best of luck.
And if you do retire, stay as a member
(31:00):
of the retiree department, right, Nancy?
Correct.
You can continue to be a member of A.P. W. U. By joining the A. P. W. U.
Retirees Department.
Our dues are just 3 a month, 36 a year.
It comes right out of your annuity.
And of course, if you are an officeror a shop steward and you're gonna
remain such after your retirement, youcan continue as a full dues member.
(31:24):
But we ask you to join theA PWU retirees Department.
Great.
Thanks again for joining us, Nancy, andyou keep up the great work out there.
And we, we, we know the retiree chapters.
And the retiree members are a greatresource for the work of the A PW
and the labor movement in general.
Thank you.
(31:44):
A couple of points I want to mentionbefore we close because these are a couple
of questions that have come up over thelast few days since the Vera came out.
When will I know whetherI'm eligible for the Vera?
The Postal Service has committedTo providing every eligible
(32:04):
employee a detailed letter withthe information concerning their
eligibility the first week of February.
So that's what we're looking at.
You should get that annuity estimate.
You should get your retirement booklet.
You should get detailed informationby the first week of February.
Also, we've had another question.
(32:26):
A lot of our members havealready planned to retire.
They put in their paperwork.
And they have an effective datesometime between January the
13th and before April 30th, theywant to know, are they eligible?
Yes, they are eligible for thisvoluntary early out, but they
must also commit to retire by thatirrevocable date of March 7th, 2025.
(32:56):
Right.
And effective before andeffective before April
30th.
Yes.
Okay.
Well, great.
And again, if you have any questionsabout those issues and others,
you can always call the hotline oremail the special email address.
Okay, Let's let's talk aboutsomething that we know and rightfully
(33:20):
so is on every member's minds.
And that is where we at with nationalnegotiations for new collective bargaining
agreement that sets the wages hours andbenefits of about 200, 000 postal workers.
Huge impact on our families and sowe want to delve into a little bit
where we're at what the, what thenext steps look like and have a very
(33:42):
honest conversation with all of you.
And I'm really pleased to bejoined for this part of the
podcast with our industrialrelations director Charlie Cash.
Welcome, Charlie.
Let me just give a littlesort of reset where we're at.
I think all of, you know, our mainagreement expired on September 20th, 2024
(34:05):
now we stopped the clock.
Meaning that we at 11 59 on just aminute before midnight on the 20th we
just stopped the clock and said, okay,we're going to continue to negotiate.
And what that does is 2 things.
We were making slow progress.
So we want to keep that progress going.
The craft tables were still meeting.
(34:26):
We were having a positive, even ifwe're slow discussions with management,
but by stopping the clock, it alsoguarantees that all our rights.
Okay.
Our whole contract isguaranteed to stay in place.
That includes our no layoff protection,but it includes our grievance procedure.
It includes seniority and bidding.
(34:46):
It, it, it, it includes our justcost protections against unjust
discipline and termination.
And it's so all of that was vitalthat as we continue to negotiate all
of those wonderful gains of throughgenerations of struggle stay in place.
And the whole time you've all beenout there in the work room floor.
(35:10):
Wearing your union gear on Thursdaysand maybe more frequently and saying,
look, we are union proud, say it loud,and we demand a good contract that
respects what, what we do, our missionto the people of the country and all
the good labor and the hard labor thatwe put into making the post office go
(35:30):
around, even, even often, and even inthe face of management's Mismanagement.
So we have some big news, which you'veprobably heard, or you will hear soon,
The National Association of LetterCarriers had also been in negotiation.
They preceded us, and after a longdrawn out process, they reached
(35:50):
a tentative agreement, and thatratification vote of the membership.
And that vote came in, andtheir membership rejected.
the tentative agreement byreally an overwhelming vote
of About 70 percent to 30%.
We did not weigh in.
It was up to the N. A. L. C. Rankand file members to decide what's
(36:12):
in their interest, but it makes itvery clear that whatever management
is willing to come forward with inthese negotiations, and it does take
two sides to tango is not sufficient.
For the members of the NALC and we aretaking that very seriously all the way,
not because of this NALC vote, all along,we're very clear about what some of the
(36:37):
goals and expectations of the members are.
And if we can't meet them with avoluntary agreement that can be put
out to a vote, then we're not goingto agree to a tentative agreement
This again is another example of thedifficulties and really the negativity
for all of us of being in separate unions.
(36:59):
So here we have fourdifferent postal unions.
We negotiated different times.
What one union does impacts, whetherwe like it or not, whether it's
good or bad impact, it impactswhat the other unions are doing.
But we basically so, but just to bring youright up to date with what we're doing,
we're still meeting with management.
We're in largely what's called economicnegotiations as general wage increase.
(37:24):
Cola steps upgrades, et cetera.
Those are the toughestpart of negotiations.
Folks.
We're not negotiating with acompany that's awash in cash.
In fact, we're negotiatingwith an entity that is bleeding
billions of dollars a year.
But it doesn't matter.
It is what it is.
So we're going to extract the bestwe can and try to reach a voluntary
(37:47):
agreement, but I think it's very likely.
Or at least somewhat likely and maybevery likely that we end up going the
path of interest arbitration, becausethis leadership is not going to agree
to a tentative agreement, put it to therank and file the committee to decide
whether it goes out to vote and putsomething out to a vote that we're not
(38:09):
convinced is in the best interest ofthe members and the very, very best
that we can get out of management so
let's hear from brother cash a little bitabout the the process of what happens and
how do we get to interest arbitration?
So, Charlie, if you could share first,what it is versus a voluntary process, and
(38:30):
then how do we even choose an arbitrator?
Okay.
How do we get there and what kind oftimetables might we be looking at?
And I threw a bunch of questions at youwant, so start wherever you want, brother.
Hey, thank you president Dimondstein.
And let me just start by saying,I, I thank all of you because.
The work that you do is is unmatchedin this country, and your dedication
(38:50):
to the American public is is unmatched.
And therefore, that's why it's reallyimportant to make sure that we get
a good contract that you're awardedfor the work that you do to keep.
America's mail moving to keepcommerce moving in this country.
And it's very important.
So there are truly 2 methods that theA. P. W. U. can can reach a contract.
(39:16):
As you mentioned, President Dimenstein,and that's either a voluntary
agreement or interest arbitration.
Voluntary agreement, of course,is where we, where we, we sit
across the table for management.
We exchange proposals.
We negotiate over those proposalsand we try to come to some kind of
agreement on What both parties can do.
Negotiations is not a one way street.
(39:38):
It is not a, the APWU demands this andthat's the only thing we're going to do.
Postal Service has a right to putproposals down, to put counter proposals
down, and they have the right tonegotiate some other things too, and
then we try to come to an agreement.
If we can come to an agreement on terms,whether it's work rules, Whether it's
(39:58):
paying benefits or, or what we call thefinancial package we can then present that
to the membership for ratification vote.
So that's the 1st method.
Voluntary agreement.
The parties at the national levelnegotiate, they agree some terms.
We present it to our constitutionallymandated rank and file bargaining
(40:19):
advisory committee that then can decideto send it out for ratification or not.
If they then send it out, they decideto send it out for ratification.
We send it to the membership andeach and every membership member
gets a opportunity to vote yes or no.
That's the first method.
And to be frank, that's the best method.
It is always best for the parties tomake the determination of what our
(40:43):
contract should be rather than puttingit into the, to a third party's hand.
Which brings us to interest arbitration.
Interest arbitration is when theparties do not reach a voluntary
agreement, or a voluntary agreementcould be rejected, but either way, the
parties have not agreed to a contract.
(41:04):
Interest arbitration then goes to,according to the law, that you know,
because the law technically does notallow us to strike, although we talk
about the Wildcat Strike in 1970.
when that our predecessorsso greatly fought for us.
The law right now requires usto go to interest arbitration.
(41:25):
So if we go to interestarbitration, that's where we begin
with a panel of arbitrators, athree party arbitrator system.
One of the panel is selected by the PostalService, and that person is going to fight
hard for the Postal Service's demands.
One party is selected by the APWU.
(41:48):
That person will be our advocateand will be advocating and
fighting for the APWU demands.
And then there'll be the thirdparty neutral and the third
party neutral ultimately will bethe one who makes the decision.
They're the
chair of the three panel party and theywill be the person that makes the final
decision on what our contract could be.
(42:11):
And so that's where we would be atif we go to interest arbitration.
We would be putting our hands into athird party neutral to make a decision.
We'll go, we would put on a case.
We will there could be hearingsover multiple days where we, you
know, in the last time, I believeit was a couple weeks of hearings,
although it wasn't like consecutive.
(42:32):
And and we do things like we would wewould put on panels of our employees to
come and tell the And mainly the thirdparty arbitrator, what our people do, what
our work is, how complicated our work is,how important our work is to the American
public, how we different from, say, anAmazon, how different we are from a UPS,
(42:52):
we go out and we make those arguments,
the law requires that we doComparability, what are we compared to?
So we, we put on these cases andthen we ask an arbitrator to, to
make a decision, this third party todecide what our contract would be.
And look, we've, we've gone throughinterest arbitration over the years.
And you, you know, mark, as you as, asyou know, over the last few interest
(43:18):
arbitrations, we have done a great job ofprotecting what our, status quo has been.
Some years we haven'tbeen able to do that.
Charlie.
I had a bunch of questions and yougot them all answered as I was going
by thinking about it, but I do wantto raise this prior to getting back.
So I just want our members tounderstand that there's a, we
(43:39):
hear the term arbitration in ourdaily life in the post office.
People file grievances on overtimeor on an unjust termination and.
The last step of the grievanceprocedure is arbitration.
So you hear it a lot in yourlocal union or your state union.
The arbitration we're talkingabout in terms of deciding the
(44:01):
outcome of our negotiations iscalled interest arbitration.
It's not contract.
That's correct.
Arbitration is whatdoes the contract mean?
Was it violated?
What's the revenue?
Interest arbitration and it's,it's, it's an important difference.
Interest arbitration means that eachside comes before an arbitrator.
(44:21):
The panel, to say we need a changebecause it's in our interest as.
The workers and management can comein and say, we need a change because
it's in the interest of the well beingof the postal service and their future
finances . So it's a very different thing.
The arbitrators are not deciding wasthe contract violating the arbitrators
(44:45):
deciding what's in the interest ofthe parties and they're trying to
merge Those interests of the parties.
So it's almost impossible.
Maybe that's an overstatement,but it's unlikely that management
doesn't get some of their interests.
From an interest arbitrator, justas it's unlikely that we don't
get some of our interests as theAmerican postal workers union..
(45:08):
It's a very different argumentthat we're bringing forward.
And to some extent, everything'sup for grabs, Charlie, because I
don't want to be one sided or, or,arbitrage of interest arbitration.
We're not afraid.
Would we rather havea voluntary agreement?
Absolutely.
But Charlie, do you have any thoughtson that interest arbitration versus
(45:29):
a contract arbitration approach?
No,
absolutely.
President Dimondstein.
And I appreciate that.
Well, because I look at I look at whenI started with the Postal Service.
Okay, so you know, many people out theredon't know that I started with the Postal
Service in 1994 as a non career employee.
(45:50):
I started as a transitionalemployee, which was the our PSE.
So I understand the PSE plight.
I understand the frustrationof being in a non career.
But when I started in 1994 atthat time, night differential was
10 percent of your hourly wage.
All across the board.
But the postal service arguedin the interest arbitration
(46:10):
during that time frame.
That night differential at 10 percentwas too high and was not in the
interest, as you said, Mark, it wasnot in the interest of the Postal
Service to continue night differentialat 10 percent of the hourly wage.
So, what the interest arbitratordid in that time frame right at
(46:31):
the beginning of my career was theyfroze night differential at the
current rates, which at the time was,was 10 percent of the hourly wage.
Nowadays, you know, in in my case, over30 years later, where he froze it out
when it was 10 percent is not even close
(46:52):
to that.
It's actually it's acrossthe board in the average.
Charlie, I believe it'sless than 5 percent now.
Yeah, it is less than butour wages keep going up.
So the percentage becamesmaller and smaller.
That's that's correct.
So that is an example of what whenit's in the, The interest of the
Postal Service was argued in thearbitration and the arbitrator ruled
(47:13):
in favor of their interest of ending10 percent night differential.
So, so that's a perfect exampleof what you're talking about
as far as interest goes.
So it is very different.
It's it's a completely different worldand and and how they look at those things.
So yeah, so these are thethings that are looked at.
(47:33):
These are the things thatthe arbitrators look at.
These are the things thatwe have to make sure we have
legitimate and good arguments for.
We have good evidence for that.
Yeah.
Thanks.
Thanks for those examples.
Fairly good ones.
Let let me see if we can nail down
I know we can't nail down dates and wecan't promise this and that, but just
(47:53):
giving the listeners kind of a sense ofthe way, the timing of the way forward.
The other thing prior to answeringthat, just want to make it clear to
the folks, listen, even an interestarbitration as it's going forward
as we go through the hearings.
We can still seek and possibly reach avoluntary agreement along the way and
(48:14):
maybe management reacts in a different waybecause the hearing is going well for us.
And then they say,well, maybe we ought to.
Settle because who knows whatthe arbitrator is going to do.
So, in the terms of the time and Charlie,
sure.
Well,
I,
I will tell you that I have beenmeeting regularly with management
as a matter of fact, I had a meetingwith management this week to discuss
(48:35):
the exchange of arbitrator names.
I think I will be ready to presenta list to the Postal Service within
the next 14 days, and, and I believethat I will be ready to present a
list to, of course, to, to you asthe President within the next week.
, but I'm not going to rush dates.
I am not going to rush picking datesand scheduling arbitration just to
(48:55):
say we've scheduled arbitration.
I want to make sure we select datesand arbitrate so that we're prepared.
But Mark, at the same time,I'm not going to lie to you.
Anybody who's sitting thereand watching the news.
seeing what is happeningto the federal workforce.
We all need to be concerned about what'shappening . And so I believe that we
(49:16):
need to be moving forward and readyto go to make sure that we're fighting
for the best contract we possiblycan in this political environment.
Because again, I do not believe forone second that we have a Congress
or a president Who is going to go outof their way to help postal employees
(49:39):
and unfortunately, some may go out oftheir way to hurt postal employees.
I
didn't want to say that.
I'm only
going with, you know, but you and Iare in complete agreement on that.
, well, that's all helpful.
And I just want, again, ourlisteners to know we're, we're,
we're ready to rock and roll.
We're not going to let the grass growon her feet, but as brother Cash said,
we're also going to make sure thatwe're putting on the most developed and
(50:04):
well thought out and well planned case.
We got great witnesses.
We got great economists.
We got great lawyers who aregoing to advocate the case.
We got great.
National officers who are going to betestifying and maybe most important
of all, we have great members who aregoing to come in and talk about to
the arbitrators what they do day inand day out and why that work should
(50:24):
be rewarded with the kind of demandsthat the union is putting forward.
And at the same time, we also wantto make sure as we build on the
past, but that we want to make surewe protect the wonderful gains.
Of the past and those things can comeup for grab, you know, many, many things
we got Charlie and our good listeners,many of the things we take for granted.
(50:47):
I'm sure I took for granted whenI was on the workroom floor.
How many workers who are fulltime have guaranteed hours
a day and 40 hours a week?
How many career employees with sixyears have guaranteed no layoff?
These are incredible things, eventhe seniority in bidding, that takes
away favoritism., those are thingsthat a union won, union secured, and
(51:07):
whatever method we go forward with.
Voluntary agreement that we can put outto a vote or an interest arbitration.
One of our goals is to protect thosegains and then build on them and
continue to progress as a a groupof workers within our workforce.
So,
Mark, if you don't mind, I just I justwant to say, too, is if we do go to
(51:29):
interest arbitration, I mean, this maynot be a short process because even
if we even if we get in and we havehearings that are, you know, 2 consecutive
weeks straight, we then get into.
There could be 2 or 3 months ofof the parties exchanging briefs
and giving them to the arbitrator.
Then the arbitrator could take acouple months to to make a decision.
So, I mean, the processcould take take a while.
(51:51):
Even ratification couldcould take a while.
And, you know, we, we just, we justneed to make sure that we understand
that this contract fight, it's notjust you and me and our witnesses
and our other national officerswho have worked hard on a contract.
This, this requirement requiresthe involvement of the members
and I'm going to ask our membersand I'm challenging you today.
(52:12):
You have what Union Gear Thursdays.
Personally, I want Union Gear every day.
Right.
I want everybody wearing union gear.
And if we go to interest arbitration,or we get to a ratification, we
may ask you to do some things.
We may ask you to do some actionson the floor, to wear a button or
a, or a sticker in support of this.
We may ask you, as we goto interest arbitration.
(52:34):
I like to use the termfight, fight, fight.
It is time to fight for our contract.
We may need to be in the streets.
We may need to be out demonstratingin front of the post office,
informational pickets and sayingwe deserve a good contract.
We need to get people to understandhow important Not only is the Postal
Service to the American public,but how important good working
(52:56):
class jobs matter to this country.
This country does not functionby billionaires buying products.
this country functions.
on people like you,
and I'm willing to fightfor not only this contract.
But I'm willing to stand up, and I wantour people to stand up for every contract
(53:16):
in this country, including our sistersand brothers in the federal workforce
who are facing challenges as well.
Well put.
Well put.
So, Charlie, any closing thoughts?
Because you actually gave me a prettygood segue, but go ahead if you got any
closing thoughts, and then I'll give mine.
Brother, just know that, that,that I'm in this for the fight.
(53:37):
I want our people in it for the fight.
We're going to do what we canto get the best contract for our
people, no matter what it takes.
And and we're going to fight for it,and we're going to ask for their help,
we're going to ask for their support.
And I always say at the end ofevery article I write, just about
every email I write, solidarity.
President Dimenstein, today, thatword means more than anything.
(54:01):
Solidarity, sisters and brothers.
Let's go get this done.
Thanks, Charlie.
And, and listen, it's thanksfor joining into the podcast.
APW family.
I,
but the most immediate transition.
Challenge in front of us is a newcountry, the bigger and longer run
challenge that's in front of usnow, and it's not going to go away.
(54:25):
And we can't stick our heads in the sandis the struggle over the very existence.
Of a public post office is here to serveeverybody, no matter who we are and
where we live with affordable rates, goodunion wages, family, sustaining wages and
benefits or whether it's the Elon musksof the world, these oligarch billionaires
(54:47):
that are going to rip everythingthat off that belongs to the public.
This DOG thing you're hearing about,this is not about government efficiency.
This is how to rip off the public sector.
Get rid of public sector workers, turnit over to the private sector, like
the musks and the besos and all, andthe Silicon Valley hedge funders and
all that, so they can make a profit offof what normally belongs to the public
(55:11):
we got quite a struggle ahead of us,and I think the question of postal
privatization, turning over to postoffice, selling it off to private
corporations for private profits, Isnot always understood and it's negative
ramifications and the next podcast,we'll dig into that question more as
well in the meantime you can listento this podcast to all your normal
(55:32):
channels, , Spotify, YouTube, listenat work when you got your earbuds in,
listen as you're traveling to and fromwork or going to the grocery store.
And we'd love to hear whatyou think about the podcast.
Whether you find it informative andenlightening and inspiring and also
any ideas you have for bringing onother guests, addressing different
issues and, and, and the alike.
(55:54):
So don't hesitate to weigh in.
This is your podcast, communicatingdirectly with you to members.
Be well, be strong,carry on as we fight for.
The best contract we can get,however, we're going to get it.
And as we fight to defend thiswonderful national treasure called the
public United States postal service,solidarity forever, APW family.
(56:21):
you can download the podcast on allstreaming services, including YouTube.
apple podcast, Spotify, or whereveryou listen to podcasts regularly.
Popular Podcasts
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Therapy Gecko
An unlicensed lizard psychologist travels the universe talking to strangers about absolutely nothing. TO CALL THE GECKO: follow me on https://www.twitch.tv/lyleforever to get a notification for when I am taking calls. I am usually live Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays but lately a lot of other times too. I am a gecko.
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.