September 9, 2025 • 36 mins
We know we've been gone for so long, but it's for a good reason! Catch up on all of the amazing conservation the Aquarium has done this year with Johanna Hultberg, Conservation Manager of Fish & Invertebrates.
Episode resources:
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- Email us at podcific@lbaop.org
- Tidewater gobies news story
- Learn more about the Aquarium's conservation efforts on our website
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:06):
Hi, I'm Aaron Lundy. And I'm Madeline Walden, and
this is Aquarium. Of the pod civic.
A podcast brought to you by Aquarium of the Pacific,
Southern California's largest aquarium.
Join us as we learned, alongsidethe experts in animal care,
conservation, and more. Hey.
Hey, hey, I know. Remember us?
(00:26):
Sorry, sorry. Sorry in advance.
Sorry. We've been a little busy.
You've been very busy. The listener or me?
Well, actually the listener, thelistener actually you've been
too busy to listen to us, so we decided to just wait seven
months to. Record it for a little bit.
We know it's been a second sincewe have recorded an episode, but
we promise we actually have a new season coming out pretty
(00:46):
soon. We are in the process of
recording some new episodes. In the meantime, we did want to
give you some excuses as to why it took us so long to come back
around and record a new episode of Pod Cific.
And it mostly has to do with conservation, which is great
and. Like the most important thing.
Yeah, that's like my whole. Like the best thing we could
have been doing besides podcasting.
(01:07):
It goes podcasting way up here and then conservation somewhere
down. There.
Yeah, that's second priority. But this summer did take first
priority. So we actually hired a new
conservation manager. Her name is Johanna Holtberg and
she and I share a desk. It is the best.
We have Conservation Corner now,but we've been doing a lot of
different conservation projects and helping with some of the
(01:28):
things that have been happening here in California.
So if you missed us, sorry, but.We're back and we have even more
conservation to talk about beyond this episode.
This season we're going to talk about monarch butterflies.
We're talking today about abalone and sunflower sea stars.
And it sounds like we're going to have to have an all abalone
episode for you, because there'sjust so much to say about those
little cute snails. All ABS all the time.
(01:51):
I wish that. Was my AB day.
We've got a fun episode with Johanna, it's great.
And we're so happy to be back. It's been too long, so we are
excited to chat with you more again.
You can follow us at Podcific and you can find us everywhere
you listen to podcasts. And we're going to be back real
soon with some really fun stories.
OK. Thanks for coming back.
OK, Madeline, hopping on here post record to let you know that
(02:12):
you can now e-mail the podcast. That's right, we have an e-mail
inbox, so you can write to us atpodcific at lbaop.org.
PODCIFIC at lbaop.org. Feel free to e-mail us with your
suggestions for future episodes or just anything you want to
share with us. Let's get into the episode.
(02:32):
Welcome back to Aquarium of the Pod Civic.
I'm Madeleine Walden, your digital content and community
manager. And today I am joined with.
Aaron Lundy, I am actually one of the aquarium's conservation
managers. And I get to say that now
because previously I was introducing myself as manager of
conservation initiatives, but now we actually have two
conservation managers for our husbandry department that's
(02:53):
cheering, if you're wondering what that sounds.
And Johanna. If you want to introduce
yourself. Yeah.
I'm Johanna Holtberg. I am the newest conservation
Manager and I am overseeing the fish and invertebrate
department, so helping with all of our conservation initiatives
in that department. Insert Wolf Sound here.
It's cheering. Don't worry.
(03:14):
It's. A cheering wolf.
It's a happy wolf. We wanted to talk a little bit
about some updates in conservation this year.
This is going to be a smaller episode of the Aquarium of the
Podsific today. We just wanted to let you know
some of the cool things that we have going on at the aquarium.
Yeah, there's been a lot happening.
We were just doing a sea turtle release last week and I know
that you've had a ton of really exciting stuff have the next
last couple of months, and Johanna joined us recently and
(03:37):
was just thrown right into all of the amazing work that the
aquarium does. I think if I identify my as
frogs, Aaron, you probably identify yourself as abalone,
Johanna. I think so.
Yeah, I think so. I love.
Being defined by your by your, your passionate animal too.
Frogs are passion. Abalone Johanna, you should see
our shared cube. There are frogs and abalone
(03:59):
everywhere. And golden retrievers.
Yes, there are also golden retrievers in there, but why
don't you tell us a little bit about some of the cool abalone
updates that have been happeningsince you've started?
Which, by the way, when did you start again?
I started mid-May, so we are just about at three months.
And you are now critical to the operations of conservation here
(04:20):
at the aquarium. Yeah, it has been a packed three
months, but in all the best ways, I think it was my second
week we got a delivery on on a private jet of 2247 to be exact,
juvenile white abalone. So they were, yeah.
They they came at abalone. Like they were looking good in
(04:41):
their private jet. So they came to us from UC
Davis's Bodega Marine Lab, who is one of our key partners of
our white abalone conservation work.
So they sent us about 1 1/2 yearold white abalone that we've
been helping to grow up nice andbig here.
So these abalone are destined for the ocean.
(05:02):
They're going to make their way out into our local waters in the
spring. Nice.
They're in the spring out plant.Can you talk to us a little bit
for those who aren't familiar? What is abalone?
What are abalone? What?
Is abalone. Abalone question mark.
Abalone are an iconic species. You can find them worldwide, but
(05:23):
they are a type of marine snail.Here in California, we have 7
different species and they have played a really important role
in California's culture, dating back to the indigenous people.
They would use them as fishing hooks, as jewelry.
There's even evidence that they were used with monetary value as
trade. But then we're also really
(05:45):
heavily used for food, so a lot of cultures on them for food.
And now white abalone specifically are endangered
species because of this. So they were actually the first
marine invertebrate ever to be listed on the Endangered Species
Act, back in 2001. Truly iconic animals.
Very. They were the trend setters
unfortunately. Unfortunately.
(06:07):
Yeah, a poor trend, but we are still, we still consider them
icons at the end of the day. I was going to ask you.
So I think that there is benefitto doing a larger abalone
episode at some point because the aquarium's been involved
with the white abalone project for 1314 years now.
Almost 20 actually. Yeah, much longer than that,
since 2007. That that project is an almost
(06:29):
legal drinking act. But when you received 2247
abalone at 1 1/2 years old, how big are the abalone?
You know, it varies quite a bit because with 2247 individuals,
they're not exactly uniform, butour largest when we received
them was around 20mm. I think we maybe had one that
(06:53):
was a little bigger than that. So if you guys think of the size
of 1/4, we're talking around that size and our smallest were
maybe at maximum 5mm. So the white on your fingertip
basically we just both looked. So there's there's quite a big
size variation between them. But at 1 1/2 years old, they're
(07:14):
not very big yet. I think the Max size of 1/4.
It's crazy that they take so long to get to the size that we
maybe want to put them out. And so I think similar to what
we're doing with mountain yellowlegged frogs and with our sea
Otter surrogacy project, the component that we are primarily
doing in this project is head starting, right.
And so we're receiving young juveniles, rearing them until
they are a better size and then releasing them or out planting
(07:37):
them in the case of abalone. What size are we looking for to
release the abalone? The smallest size we look for to
release abalone is about 25mm. So that quarter size, so a few
of them that we got, we're actually ready to be out planted
at that point. But we really try to keep the
population together and out plant as populations and as a
(07:57):
program we try to be strategic about ensuring that we have
abalone available twice a year. So even though we had a handful
of them that could be out planted with this fall out
plant, we really wanted to save that population for the spring
when we can out plant a larger number, hopefully targeting
additional out planting sites. Have you gotten to go on out
planting yet? I have actually my second day at
(08:20):
the aquarium. It's really critical.
Too. I got to go on a boat.
That's cool. Yeah, many days.
Are I've been on a couple and it's really fun, but I get so
seasick because you're just posted up out there in the
middle of the ocean just, and everybody's having such a good
time and like, it is a really wonderful day and there's food
(08:42):
you guys cook, but it is a gnarly day for someone who's
seasick. So I applaud you.
It absolutely is. You got to be prepared for that
day. Is it so when we're releasing or
out planting them, are we typically diving and then
putting them down on the sea floor?
And then do we protect them in some way, shape or form?
Like how do we best set them up for success?
Absolutely. So we use these little baskets
(09:06):
basically. I'm saying that as if it's a
very simple term, but they're these basically really long
plastic tubes that have a good sized mesh to essentially keep
the abalone in, but also keep predators out.
So the reason we like using these mesh type baskets is
because it allows for seawater to flow through the baskets.
So our dive team, so we have a scientific dive team here that
(09:28):
participates in the out plantingalongside some of our partners.
We will stock the pods up with abalone and ample amounts of
kelp for them once they get downthere.
And then we attach them to concrete bases essentially and
we'll position those bases near suitable habitat for them.
So we'll look for rock crevices areas where we see good algae.
(09:49):
And we also monitor these sites for a very long time before ever
even putting the abalone here. So we make sure that they're
really great habitat for the abalone, and then sometimes
we'll pop those pods open immediately on deploying and
other times we'll go back and revisit that site about a week
later and open the pod then to give them time to acclimate.
Nice. That's really cool.
(10:10):
I kind of wish I could go out onthat, except for the seasick
thing. I think that would happen to me.
So Day 2 you released abalone and then pretty recently you've
also received then 2247 new abalone.
And I'm guessing that is also inaddition to whatever we have on
site and are we also breeding them here?
I do, yeah. So we have in total, Let me see
(10:31):
if I can do the math off the topof my head. 24 + 15, so 39.
We have 39 broodstock abalone here, which means that those are
abalone that will stay with us for quite a while most of their
life and will participate in joint spawns once or twice a
year where we're essentially looking to get gametes from
(10:55):
them. So those gametes are then
fertilized and later used to outplant the abalone once they're
nice and big. That is cool.
I think we have to do a full abalone episode.
We'll have to. Dive into that literally home
anyway. Maybe we'll do it live from the
boat and we can both be seasick.Yeah, on the pod.
Yeah. I think if we do a full episode,
we can talk a little bit more about the project, but it sounds
like you've pretty much jumped straight into abalone, and that
(11:17):
was pretty much a large component of your background
coming into the aquarium too, right?
Absolutely, Yeah. I've been doing this project for
a while now, so it's been reallyexciting to first of all get to
go on my first out planting boattrip since starting here, since
previously that wasn't a component I was a part of.
But yeah, I get to build up thisprogram and really start putting
(11:37):
some large numbers to it. Amazing.
Aaron, you mentioned surrogacy for a second.
Do you want to touch on some surrogacy updates?
So Seattle surrogacy is something that we are doing in
conjunction with Monterey Bay Aquarium and functionally our
program has been up and running for about a year and a half now,
which is great. We have been actively
participating in some surrogacy efforts, which is really nice to
(11:57):
see and working pretty closely with Monterey Bay Aquarium.
There will be some updates, I think that will go out more
formally and potentially news updates and things like that as
things go on. But for now, all I can say is we
are participating in surrogacy and we are very happy with our
ability to kind of augment the population of sea otters off our
coast because it's a really important program and we're very
excited to be partners with Monterey.
(12:18):
Yeah, it's a wonderful program. And if you're interested in
learning more, we actually our very first episode is all about
sea otters and we talk a little bit about our surrogacy program
as well. So just scroll back in your
feeds and you will find that. Yeah, it is pretty cool.
We've been doing a lot of stuff sea otters probably would eat
abalone, however. Sorry.
Yeah, sorry, I'm sorry. You do not need to apologize.
It is all about balance. Nature.
(12:39):
But thank you. Right, you want the full circle.
Exactly. Keystones all around.
Ecosystem approach. Thankfully, and not thankfully,
there are no sea otters this farSouth and so the abalone we're
out planting are safe from predation from the most
voracious mammal in the ocean. Sea otters.
For now, So day 2, abalone release day, whichever it was,
more abalone coming in, we're doing abalone spawns.
(13:01):
You're not just the abalone conservation manager, though,
you also are part of Picnipodia.So Sunflower Stars.
Tell us a little bit about what it looks like to manage that
program. Yeah, the Sunflower Sea Star
program is a really exciting one.
The Aquarium of the Pacific was actually one of the founding
members of our ACA, which is theAssociation of Zoos and
(13:22):
Aquariums SAFE, which stands forSaving Animals from Extinction
Sunflower program, in addition to one of the founding members
of P Core, which is the Pacific Coast Ocean Restoration
Initiative. So the aquarium plays a really
important role in both of those programs.
So it's been really exciting to kind of step into that.
Here on site, we have 7 juvenilesunflower sea stars that were
(13:46):
reared back in 2024. They're actually one day younger
than the abalone that we received, which is really funny.
So the the juvenile sunflower sea stars were fertilized on
February 14th, Valentine's Day. So they are called the Cupid
cohort. So the abalone for reference
(14:06):
would then be February 13th. So they're one day apart.
You can share that with our Osprey.
Population shout out, Lauren, but I guess I make some
brothers, right? Yeah.
To me in Aquarius. Yeah, they're Aquarius brothers.
That works out really well. For the aquarium.
Oh, a fellow Aquarius at the. Table I am I'm February 16th, so
(14:28):
just two days apart. You're also brothers with them.
So I am one of the brothers. Sunflower stars, white abalone
and then Johanna, all brothers. Yeah, exactly.
They were basically triplets, ifyou want to think about it that
way. Yeah.
That makes total sense to me. So we have juvenile sunflower
stars here, 7 We bred them here.They weren't reared here, but
(14:51):
they were part of a collaboration that the Aquarium
of the Pacific was a part of. So some of the gametes from our
historic populations were utilized in the fertilization of
these juveniles and so that we got them when they had settled.
So if you aren't aware, they take about 50 days to settle.
So we got them somewhere after 50 days post or post
(15:13):
fertilization. How big are they now?
Right now our largest one is getting close to 50mm and really
exciting. If you want to come measure it
yourself, you can actually see it on exhibit. 2 cornets. 2
cornets. Or a half dollar.
Or a half dollar. Yeah, like that.
Does that even know? Yeah, He, she, we don't know we
(15:34):
obviously. But they are so cute on exhibit.
And it's the first time we've ever had baby sunflower sea
stars on exhibit. Is that right?
That's correct, yeah. Which exhibit are they in?
They are in Rocky Reef, which ison the 2nd floor in the Northern
Pacific Gallery. Yeah.
So since you last heard a podcast episode from us, we
launched our Stars of the Sea summer program and that's going
to go all the way through next year.
(15:54):
Part of that has been a launch of a new exhibit called Our
Living Coastline, and we're going to have a fan favorite,
Brooke Hernandez, back to speak on that and a future episode.
But yeah, it's stars everywhere,all over the aquarium, but
especially highlighting this crucial conservation effort that
Johanna is a part of. So you should definitely check
it out. There's sea stars highlighted
all around the aquarium with special signs.
They're very beautiful. And you have to see these
(16:16):
babies, sunflower sea stars. They're so sweet.
They're very cute. They are.
They're so cute, and they're notgoing to stay small for long.
These stars get up to three feetin size, so they are very large.
In fact, some argue they're the largest in the world.
So you got to get them now whilethey're while they're cute and
little. And they're the fastest, right?
And they're the fastest, yeah. Does anyone argue that something
(16:37):
else is the largest in the world?
Well, you can argue some tropical species, so there's a
few that come close, so. Sunflower stars are more
temperate then and only live in colder water.
Interesting. We also have a Sunflower Star
episode True back from our firstseason as well, so scroll back
in your feed to find that if you'd like to learn more.
And we'll continue to update on all things Sunflower Picnipodia.
(16:58):
Picnipodia, which is a really fun word that I still don't
always know how to spell. Bra it is a little bit.
Tricky. It is hard.
Can you spell it right now? God.
PPYPYC. N0P 0D IA, yeah.
That was right. No, you could have said
anything. I pass the spell in B.
This is actually why we brought you on.
(17:20):
It's just to test your spelling.So sunflower stars and white
abalone are both projects that the aquarium was a part of prior
to you joining us, as well as one other sort of burgeoning
initiative, which was bulk help,right?
And so how do you participate inand or what does that project
look like to do bulk help conservation?
The bulk help project is really cool.
So we are one of three facilities that are holding the
(17:42):
gametophytes, which is basicallythe reproductive material of
kelp, if you've ever thought about that before.
It's such all I think about. I always think about it.
Yeah, they are not quite. They look like plants, but they
don't reproduce in the same way that plants do.
So they have this really specialized genetic material
(18:03):
essentially. So we keep those gametophytes in
a fridge here. It's basically souped up wine
cooler. It is, it is, it is, and it has
as special light and we control the temperature and each of
those gametophytes are held in asingle tube.
So we have hundreds of tubes in this fridge that we have to do
(18:26):
water changes on twice a year, so.
Only twice a year. Yeah.
Throughout the year, we remove that water and we put a new
water that has really small amounts of nutrients in it to
ensure that the gametophyte doesn't grow too large because
we want it to stay in this little test tube.
So essentially what we're doing for is that we're holding those
(18:46):
gametophytes in the event that the bulk help forests in
Northern California and further north ever disappear.
So we are a copy of a copy of a copy, essentially to back up
this genetic information to ensure that in the case of any
catastrophe, these forests can recover.
In case of emergency break, winecooler, how many other
(19:08):
institutions have bulk help libraries?
Where are one of three. Oh, OK.
So it's nice that we have sort of all that redundancy.
Are they kind of in a deep freeze until we're ready to use
them? We're not quite freezing them.
They're being held in cold water, but they are in water, so
we don't want to fully freeze them.
Probably wouldn't like that. I don't, I don't know.
(19:30):
I don't know if they like that being a nice.
Interesting. Caring for animals and also a
very important plant species andalso kind of treating the plant
species like an animal because it's alive.
It's I'm making it make sense inmy head.
It's fascinating. It is, it is interesting and
kelp is it's own whole thing. Like I didn't realize before
(19:50):
coming. Like I grew up in Hawaii so I
didn't have kelp around. There's different types of
algae, but they really don't exist in the same way.
I very recently went diving for the first time here in
California, which was cool, but there was a lot of kelp
everywhere and it's not something you're really used to
unless you've ever been diving in a kelp forest.
And it is so beautiful and it isso abundant that it is hard to
imagine a. World where kelp is endangered
(20:12):
or not doing the best. What is happening with the bulk
kelp? Why are we preserving them?
Why are we worried specifically about that species?
So kelp in general thrives in really cold water.
It loves the coast of Californiaspecifically and the the Pacific
Coast because of our upwelling that we get here.
So we get really cold, nutrient dense waters from the deep ocean
(20:36):
essentially, which help these species to survive.
But as our oceans are becoming more acidic and as our oceans
are warming, we are losing thesekelp forests because they're not
getting the same nutrients and they're experiencing much higher
summers, essentially much warmerwaters than historically they
have. So these kelp forests are
essentially losing their abilityto thrive off of our coast.
(20:59):
In addition to urchin predation,which is exacerbated by the loss
of keystone species like the sunflower star, which do eat
urchins and sea otters. So very interconnected, and
abalone also get eaten by them. So they're also connected.
But it must be interesting to manage so many different
projects that are both separate,but also functionally all caused
(21:23):
by the same thing. And I think ultimately ties
together why we have the job that you and I have of which is
conservation manager, and what it is that we're trying to
accomplish here. So I know it's three months in,
but you're already doing everything.
So I'm going to already ask the hard questions.
Why is conservation important? And sort of what does your job
do to help conservation? Yeah.
(21:43):
I mean, I think some of what we've talked about already
really highlights why conservation is so important, is
that it really is a web and we don't even fully understand all
of the connections yet of our kelp forest ecosystems.
But conservation essentially is important because we're
protecting the biodiversity of these ecosystems, which in turn
(22:04):
provides us with great resourceslike protecting our coastlines,
helping us to provide food, but it also provides habitat for
other species. So it gives other animals off of
our coast a place to live. And it really essentially in
whole, makes our ecosystems moreresilient to climate change.
So the more biodiverse our ecosystems are, the more
(22:26):
resilient they are. So conservation is really
necessary at this point. I mean, speaking for my species
alone, abalone were known to be around about 80 million years
ago, is the oldest fossil we have for them.
Wow, sea stars predated dinosaurs by over 200 million
years. I mean, these kelp forests are
(22:46):
thought to be about 32,000,000 years old.
So these species have been around for quite literally
millions of years, and in just afew decades they've become
extinct or close to being extinct.
And so I think it really is partof our role and our
responsibility to help conserve these species and intern the
(23:07):
ecosystems. Thank you.
A lot of those anthropogenic factors and human cost factors
are what seems to be accelerating the rate at which
we are losing species and losingbiodiversity.
And it is really cool to have known of these projects and
known that we are participating in them, but now especially
because, like we said, they're so connected and they're also
(23:27):
related to the kelp forest and preservation of that ecosystem.
It's really cool to see all of that work being consolidated in
one person because I think that is also symbolic of the
interconnectedness of how much these projects really overlap.
So it's been really cool to haveyou here.
And how have your first three months been busy?
They've been busy, but in all the best ways, I mean this, I
(23:49):
grew up here in California and especially in Southern
California. So these are the waters that I
grew up swimming in. And, you know, I really have
grown with this, like stewardship.
My parents really instilled thatin me for our coast and how
important our coast is. So I think being able to be in a
role now where I'm really getting to play a deep role in a
(24:11):
lot of this conservation work has been so fulfilling and so
exciting. So it's been busy, but in all
the best ways. I agree.
Beautiful. Well, Aaron, I want to throw a
similar question to you. What inspires you about
conservation? Similar, I grew up in Hawaii and
I grew up being able to see really the best of the best of
(24:31):
everything in the natural world,like the most pristine ocean,
the most pristine beaches, rare birds that you'll never see
anywhere else. And like, learned a lot about
speciation and how unique and special everything that we had
was. And I think it was really
difficult for me to move away from Hawaii and feel like that
mindset wasn't as universal as potentially it was when I was
(24:52):
growing up in an environment where that was very much at the
forefront of how everyone thought and how everyone acted.
And so I moved to the East Coastfor a little bit.
It was very jarring to see someone start trash on the
ground. Like, I've never seen that in my
life. And it seems so alarming to me
that people live this way. And I understand that that isn't
ever really meant to do harm. Like people aren't doing that
(25:13):
intentionally. And so I think that's been this
long journey of trying to figureout how to show someone what is
special about the natural world and why they should just think a
little bit more before they interact with our natural
environment. And that is both very
challenging because everyone comes from different
backgrounds. And by no means do I ever want
to shame someone or make them feel less than for not knowing
(25:34):
about something. But there is also so much cool
stuff I want to show them. And all of that cool stuff does
go away if we don't sort of communally come together and
work on some of these things. Plus I now really get to be
involved with a lot of rare frogspecies and that is pretty cool
because we don't really I get towork with species that people
(25:55):
have never seen before. Like I think that is very cool
and fulfilling in its own right.But then also there is
periodically these very weird and weird in the most positive
way, herptile people or frog loving people who come to the
aquarium and are like, I have never seen a mountain yellow
legged frog, but I have spent years looking for them.
And it is so cool to just be able to show someone this 780
(26:17):
that we have behind the scenes and be like, these guys are
going back out in the wild and they're going to be released at
some point. And so I think it's all about
finding ways to inspire people and connect people to that.
And also just to find what resonates with every individual
because it's always going to be different.
And it's been cool because I have very little connection to
the fish and invertebrate side of things that we do here at the
aquarium. And so when people would come
(26:38):
and do these tours, I can show them sea otters, I can show the
mountain yellow legged frogs, I can show them whatever else we
have going on. But then they'll be like, hey,
what about the kelp? They'll be like, who?
I don't know as much about fridge.
Yeah, we have this cool fridge, but I'm not sure.
I don't know if they're frozen. I don't know anything about it.
And so it's been really nice nowto have sort of my my equal.
(26:58):
To counterpart. Yeah, counterpart.
Exactly. Probably more than equal at this
point. I think you've called 2000 to my
780. So I think that we are, we're
doing very similar things. It's just cool to have someone
that I can reference and sort ofknow they have that same
ambition and repository of information, but about projects
that I can't know that much about because my head would
(27:19):
explode. Speaking of your frogs, you want
to give an update on all things Frog Land.
Yeah, I'll keep it brief becausewe know a lot about these frogs
anyway, but. We also have a Mountain Yellow
Legged Frog episode a couple seasons ago.
Check that out For more information on the Mountain
Yellow Legged. Frog.
It's just me talking a lot aboutfrogs.
So as of right now we have released 638 mountain yellow
(27:40):
legged frogs. The last official count I
believe was maybe 5 or 6 years ago, but it was 188 adults in
the wild. Since then, unfortunately, we
have had some wildfires that have impacted their habitat.
One of them in particular potentially burned about 95% of
the usable habitat for this already endangered species.
And during one of the site surveys, they also noticed the
(28:01):
high incidence of kytrid fungus,which is unfortunately a disease
that is very deadly for amphibians in some of the usable
habitat. And they did see a population
crash, so the species isn't doing the best in the wild right
now, which is why we opted to take on more individuals for
head starting this year. So across the five holding
spaces that we have for these animals, we currently have 780
(28:23):
animals, which is a lot. The recruitment rate for this
species in the wild is about 1% from egg to adult.
We're very fortunate in that when we receive them as tadpoles
up until release, we've been seeing historic like on average
60 to 70% survivorship, which isgreat.
Obviously there's a lot of things that go into that and
obviously all the frogs that go out don't survive as much as in
my heart, I really wish that. They all did, I feel.
(28:47):
That one, yeah. It's, it's devastating a little
bit to be like, I really hope you do good out there.
But when we went out on a site survey, we actually saw one of
the frogs that we released last year.
And I think for the first time Iknew for a fact that was one of
our frogs because that was that site was empty the previous
year. And I think it was Big Chicken
who I think I've referenced had to be Big Chicken for.
(29:09):
But we had lives on. She's out there, she's making
babies, but we saw three or 4 mountain elegant frogs.
One in particular was very large, and I think that because
they hadn't seen any and the only animals they released at
that site last year were ours, they're very likely to be ones
that we reared. So very fulfilling to see a few
of them. And then I actually got to go
out on the release as well with LA Zoo, and they released some
(29:29):
tadpoles and we released some ofour young frogs.
So it was nice to kind of have this.
Everyone comes together and doesthis amazing thing together.
So 638 is our current release number.
If I hit 1000, I can retire, is what I keep telling you
everyone. No, no, no, he can't still pot.
I'll just do full time podcasting.
Yeah, a million for I. Think yeah, up to 1,000,000,
(29:49):
that's a way. Better.
That's fine. There's not that many of them
and they do reproduce by the thousands, but I feel like a
million is 1000 thousands and I don't know that we have space
for that. That's a lot.
It is a lot. But the other really cool thing
that we got to be a part of thissummer that took up a lot of my
time but was totally worth it, is the National Park Service
(30:11):
reached out to us with a projectto Head start California red
legged frogs. And they had collected these egg
masses from the streams that were being adversely impacted by
very late winter storms. So when there's a ton of rain,
basically these egg masses wouldthen just get washed downstream
and the tadpoles would very likely not hatch out or survive.
But they collected partial egg masses just for a captive
(30:33):
assurance population, which is just us holding on to them and
rearing them here. And we were able to rear and
release 587 tadpoles, which is fantastic.
So red legged frogs are a threatened species and a species
of special concern here. And it was really cool to work
in conjunction with National Park Service and they sent some
pictures of them pouring the tadpoles into the stream, which
(30:53):
was really cool. So that it's been a very frog.
Summer how many different colorsof legs are there in?
Frog World, I think it's just red and yellow, but there's also
Sierra yellow legged frogs. Like there's other yellow legged
frogs. There's probably other red
legged frogs, but I don't know. And so I don't know why they're
naming them just by leg color. So specific.
(31:15):
But it's been a very froggy summer, and we've released about
700 amphibians in some way, shape or form, even just this
year, which is pretty cool, too,yeah.
It's been a pretty intense year here in California.
Of course, we start off the yearwith our detrimental wildfires.
The aquarium has assisted with several animals as a part of the
disaster response, including some tidewater gobies, and I'll
include a link to that in the show notes of the social media
(31:37):
story we did on those. It was a really, really
beautiful release day that we did on those little, tiny little
fish that are so impactful, and it was such a collaborative
effort. I'll include some notes on that
in the show notes, so stay tunedfor that.
It's been cool. It's been busy, yeah.
Therefore not podcasting very much to say.
I know we're getting back to it.Back to it.
And now we have a whole new person to interview about
(31:59):
abalone. I have a feeling we will not
have any issue filling an entirehour with abalone.
Oh no. Maybe 2.
Maybe. Maybe we interview an abalone
hold. And I think it'll go.
Even better than. Lola as silent as Lola we had
had our sulfur aggressive cockatoo on the podcast in this
room. We were very excited to
interview Lola and he, I think the silence of this room and
(32:21):
I've never seen that bird be quiet in my life, but he, he's.
Just yelling at admin today. Screaming out here, came into
this room, closed the door and he didn't make a sound the
entire time and we couldn't evenfor like seeds and treats and
things that he liked, he would not.
Well, abalone are always silent,so maybe they're going to come
in here and. Scream.
Abalone. Start reciting a poem.
(32:41):
What would you do if they just started making sounds while in
here? I think I would probably cry
that. Would be an amazing discovery
for our podcast. That's true.
That's what we need if you. Can make that happen.
That'll be. Awesome.
I need to think about like what?The first question I would ask
them is why? What do you like to eat?
And it's Macrosus. Algae.
Algae. More algae?
(33:01):
Yeah, we're feeding them. Do we grow the kelp that we feed
them? We don't grow the kelp, but we
do grow some doles, which is a red algae species.
I say grow in very light terms. We purchase it and then it grows
slowly. So it's growing a little bit as
we feed it, but we usually do have to restock.
(33:21):
But we are growing a microalgae,A diatom specifically that they
love to eat called navicula. So it's actually really
nutritious for them when they'reyoung because it's really lipid
rich. So it kind of helps them as they
grow up. And we're actually looking to do
a little bit more specialized diets in the future for our
brewed stock, those ones that will stay with us because it's
(33:43):
thought that the lipid rich Navicula is really great for
females who are developing egg yolks, but not quite as great
for the males. We want them to stay nice and
lean. So we'll be using that species
quite a bit moving forward. As a female, I love lipid rich
foods. Too.
So I can totally see you. That is actually the scientific
(34:05):
paper is all females want something that's lipid rich at
all times. That's pretty cool.
Yeah. We can easily fill a whole
episode on abalone, their favorite foods, what they like,
what they don't like. Poetry.
Reading from them. That's the only poetry we accept
on this podcast. Abalone Poetry I.
Love it. Well, thank you both so much for
chatting with us about conservation.
Any last words about conservation that you'd like to
(34:27):
share? I think that one thing that is
so inspiring about doing conservation work is that it
will never be one person. It will never be 1 institution.
It really is the collaboration between partners that leads to
the success of these programs. And so I think that's one of the
most inspiring parts of being inthis line of work is that you're
(34:48):
surrounded, like Aaron said, by so many people that care about
all the same things that you care about and are equally as
passionate and equally as driven.
And it really pushes you to likeit.
It builds on that, you know, like it's an energy that you can
kind of feel and it makes everyone really excited to do
the work. So I really do love the
collaboration aspect of it, something that's really special
(35:09):
in this in this line of work. Definitely shout out to our
partners. Shout out to all frogs and
snails. Shout out to the snail people,
yeah? There's a surprising amount of
snail people. Yeah, there are, and rightfully.
So, OK, you're right. Sorry.
She's. Like I'm one of them.
Yeah. Thank you so much for joining us
(35:30):
for this little conservation catch up.
So thanks. For having me.
So yeah, thanks for being on thepodcast.
Okay, you guys got to go back tobeing critical to conservation
efforts. Joanna probably has to go on a
dive. Right now.
Yeah, Literally now. She has to go.
I'm. Due to the water.
In the water, calling me. I have to go be with my snails
now. Just saying check back in the
(35:50):
Northern Gallery in a mere few weeks because we will likely
have juvenile bulk help back on.Exhibit where?
It'll be right next to our sunflower sea star actually, so
it'll be in bays and sounds. That'll be full habitat.
And bays and sounds cool. Aquarium of the Pacific is
(36:16):
brought to you by Aquarium of the Pacific, A501-C3 nonprofit
organization. Keep up with the aquarium on
social media at Aquarium Pacificon TikTok, Instagram, Facebook,
Twitter and LinkedIn. This podcast is produced by
Aaron Lundy and Madeline Walden.Our music is by Andrew Reitsma
and our podcast art is by BrandyKenny.
Special thanks to Cecile Fisher,Anita Vaez, our audio, visual
(36:39):
and education departments, and our amazing podcast guests for
taking time out of their day to talk about the important work
that they do. Podsific is impossible without
the support of the Aquarium's donors, members, guests and
supporters. Thanks so much for listening.
Hi, I'm Aaron Lundy. And I'm Madeline Walden, and
this is Aquarium. Of the pod civic.
A podcast brought to you by Aquarium of the Pacific,
Southern California's largest aquarium.
Join us as we learned, alongsidethe experts in animal care,
conservation, and more. Hey.
Hey, hey, I know. Remember us?
(00:26):
Sorry, sorry. Sorry in advance.
Sorry. We've been a little busy.
You've been very busy. The listener or me?
Well, actually the listener, thelistener actually you've been
too busy to listen to us, so we decided to just wait seven
months to. Record it for a little bit.
We know it's been a second sincewe have recorded an episode, but
we promise we actually have a new season coming out pretty
(00:46):
soon. We are in the process of
recording some new episodes. In the meantime, we did want to
give you some excuses as to why it took us so long to come back
around and record a new episode of Pod Cific.
And it mostly has to do with conservation, which is great
and. Like the most important thing.
Yeah, that's like my whole. Like the best thing we could
have been doing besides podcasting.
(01:07):
It goes podcasting way up here and then conservation somewhere
down. There.
Yeah, that's second priority. But this summer did take first
priority. So we actually hired a new
conservation manager. Her name is Johanna Holtberg and
she and I share a desk. It is the best.
We have Conservation Corner now,but we've been doing a lot of
different conservation projects and helping with some of the
(01:28):
things that have been happening here in California.
So if you missed us, sorry, but.We're back and we have even more
conservation to talk about beyond this episode.
This season we're going to talk about monarch butterflies.
We're talking today about abalone and sunflower sea stars.
And it sounds like we're going to have to have an all abalone
episode for you, because there'sjust so much to say about those
little cute snails. All ABS all the time.
(01:51):
I wish that. Was my AB day.
We've got a fun episode with Johanna, it's great.
And we're so happy to be back. It's been too long, so we are
excited to chat with you more again.
You can follow us at Podcific and you can find us everywhere
you listen to podcasts. And we're going to be back real
soon with some really fun stories.
OK. Thanks for coming back.
OK, Madeline, hopping on here post record to let you know that
(02:12):
you can now e-mail the podcast. That's right, we have an e-mail
inbox, so you can write to us atpodcific at lbaop.org.
PODCIFIC at lbaop.org. Feel free to e-mail us with your
suggestions for future episodes or just anything you want to
share with us. Let's get into the episode.
(02:32):
Welcome back to Aquarium of the Pod Civic.
I'm Madeleine Walden, your digital content and community
manager. And today I am joined with.
Aaron Lundy, I am actually one of the aquarium's conservation
managers. And I get to say that now
because previously I was introducing myself as manager of
conservation initiatives, but now we actually have two
conservation managers for our husbandry department that's
(02:53):
cheering, if you're wondering what that sounds.
And Johanna. If you want to introduce
yourself. Yeah.
I'm Johanna Holtberg. I am the newest conservation
Manager and I am overseeing the fish and invertebrate
department, so helping with all of our conservation initiatives
in that department. Insert Wolf Sound here.
It's cheering. Don't worry.
(03:14):
It's. A cheering wolf.
It's a happy wolf. We wanted to talk a little bit
about some updates in conservation this year.
This is going to be a smaller episode of the Aquarium of the
Podsific today. We just wanted to let you know
some of the cool things that we have going on at the aquarium.
Yeah, there's been a lot happening.
We were just doing a sea turtle release last week and I know
that you've had a ton of really exciting stuff have the next
last couple of months, and Johanna joined us recently and
(03:37):
was just thrown right into all of the amazing work that the
aquarium does. I think if I identify my as
frogs, Aaron, you probably identify yourself as abalone,
Johanna. I think so.
Yeah, I think so. I love.
Being defined by your by your, your passionate animal too.
Frogs are passion. Abalone Johanna, you should see
our shared cube. There are frogs and abalone
(03:59):
everywhere. And golden retrievers.
Yes, there are also golden retrievers in there, but why
don't you tell us a little bit about some of the cool abalone
updates that have been happeningsince you've started?
Which, by the way, when did you start again?
I started mid-May, so we are just about at three months.
And you are now critical to the operations of conservation here
(04:20):
at the aquarium. Yeah, it has been a packed three
months, but in all the best ways, I think it was my second
week we got a delivery on on a private jet of 2247 to be exact,
juvenile white abalone. So they were, yeah.
They they came at abalone. Like they were looking good in
(04:41):
their private jet. So they came to us from UC
Davis's Bodega Marine Lab, who is one of our key partners of
our white abalone conservation work.
So they sent us about 1 1/2 yearold white abalone that we've
been helping to grow up nice andbig here.
So these abalone are destined for the ocean.
(05:02):
They're going to make their way out into our local waters in the
spring. Nice.
They're in the spring out plant.Can you talk to us a little bit
for those who aren't familiar? What is abalone?
What are abalone? What?
Is abalone. Abalone question mark.
Abalone are an iconic species. You can find them worldwide, but
(05:23):
they are a type of marine snail.Here in California, we have 7
different species and they have played a really important role
in California's culture, dating back to the indigenous people.
They would use them as fishing hooks, as jewelry.
There's even evidence that they were used with monetary value as
trade. But then we're also really
(05:45):
heavily used for food, so a lot of cultures on them for food.
And now white abalone specifically are endangered
species because of this. So they were actually the first
marine invertebrate ever to be listed on the Endangered Species
Act, back in 2001. Truly iconic animals.
Very. They were the trend setters
unfortunately. Unfortunately.
(06:07):
Yeah, a poor trend, but we are still, we still consider them
icons at the end of the day. I was going to ask you.
So I think that there is benefitto doing a larger abalone
episode at some point because the aquarium's been involved
with the white abalone project for 1314 years now.
Almost 20 actually. Yeah, much longer than that,
since 2007. That that project is an almost
(06:29):
legal drinking act. But when you received 2247
abalone at 1 1/2 years old, how big are the abalone?
You know, it varies quite a bit because with 2247 individuals,
they're not exactly uniform, butour largest when we received
them was around 20mm. I think we maybe had one that
(06:53):
was a little bigger than that. So if you guys think of the size
of 1/4, we're talking around that size and our smallest were
maybe at maximum 5mm. So the white on your fingertip
basically we just both looked. So there's there's quite a big
size variation between them. But at 1 1/2 years old, they're
(07:14):
not very big yet. I think the Max size of 1/4.
It's crazy that they take so long to get to the size that we
maybe want to put them out. And so I think similar to what
we're doing with mountain yellowlegged frogs and with our sea
Otter surrogacy project, the component that we are primarily
doing in this project is head starting, right.
And so we're receiving young juveniles, rearing them until
they are a better size and then releasing them or out planting
(07:37):
them in the case of abalone. What size are we looking for to
release the abalone? The smallest size we look for to
release abalone is about 25mm. So that quarter size, so a few
of them that we got, we're actually ready to be out planted
at that point. But we really try to keep the
population together and out plant as populations and as a
(07:57):
program we try to be strategic about ensuring that we have
abalone available twice a year. So even though we had a handful
of them that could be out planted with this fall out
plant, we really wanted to save that population for the spring
when we can out plant a larger number, hopefully targeting
additional out planting sites. Have you gotten to go on out
planting yet? I have actually my second day at
(08:20):
the aquarium. It's really critical.
Too. I got to go on a boat.
That's cool. Yeah, many days.
Are I've been on a couple and it's really fun, but I get so
seasick because you're just posted up out there in the
middle of the ocean just, and everybody's having such a good
time and like, it is a really wonderful day and there's food
(08:42):
you guys cook, but it is a gnarly day for someone who's
seasick. So I applaud you.
It absolutely is. You got to be prepared for that
day. Is it so when we're releasing or
out planting them, are we typically diving and then
putting them down on the sea floor?
And then do we protect them in some way, shape or form?
Like how do we best set them up for success?
Absolutely. So we use these little baskets
(09:06):
basically. I'm saying that as if it's a
very simple term, but they're these basically really long
plastic tubes that have a good sized mesh to essentially keep
the abalone in, but also keep predators out.
So the reason we like using these mesh type baskets is
because it allows for seawater to flow through the baskets.
So our dive team, so we have a scientific dive team here that
(09:28):
participates in the out plantingalongside some of our partners.
We will stock the pods up with abalone and ample amounts of
kelp for them once they get downthere.
And then we attach them to concrete bases essentially and
we'll position those bases near suitable habitat for them.
So we'll look for rock crevices areas where we see good algae.
(09:49):
And we also monitor these sites for a very long time before ever
even putting the abalone here. So we make sure that they're
really great habitat for the abalone, and then sometimes
we'll pop those pods open immediately on deploying and
other times we'll go back and revisit that site about a week
later and open the pod then to give them time to acclimate.
Nice. That's really cool.
(10:10):
I kind of wish I could go out onthat, except for the seasick
thing. I think that would happen to me.
So Day 2 you released abalone and then pretty recently you've
also received then 2247 new abalone.
And I'm guessing that is also inaddition to whatever we have on
site and are we also breeding them here?
I do, yeah. So we have in total, Let me see
(10:31):
if I can do the math off the topof my head. 24 + 15, so 39.
We have 39 broodstock abalone here, which means that those are
abalone that will stay with us for quite a while most of their
life and will participate in joint spawns once or twice a
year where we're essentially looking to get gametes from
(10:55):
them. So those gametes are then
fertilized and later used to outplant the abalone once they're
nice and big. That is cool.
I think we have to do a full abalone episode.
We'll have to. Dive into that literally home
anyway. Maybe we'll do it live from the
boat and we can both be seasick.Yeah, on the pod.
Yeah. I think if we do a full episode,
we can talk a little bit more about the project, but it sounds
like you've pretty much jumped straight into abalone, and that
(11:17):
was pretty much a large component of your background
coming into the aquarium too, right?
Absolutely, Yeah. I've been doing this project for
a while now, so it's been reallyexciting to first of all get to
go on my first out planting boattrip since starting here, since
previously that wasn't a component I was a part of.
But yeah, I get to build up thisprogram and really start putting
(11:37):
some large numbers to it. Amazing.
Aaron, you mentioned surrogacy for a second.
Do you want to touch on some surrogacy updates?
So Seattle surrogacy is something that we are doing in
conjunction with Monterey Bay Aquarium and functionally our
program has been up and running for about a year and a half now,
which is great. We have been actively
participating in some surrogacy efforts, which is really nice to
(11:57):
see and working pretty closely with Monterey Bay Aquarium.
There will be some updates, I think that will go out more
formally and potentially news updates and things like that as
things go on. But for now, all I can say is we
are participating in surrogacy and we are very happy with our
ability to kind of augment the population of sea otters off our
coast because it's a really important program and we're very
excited to be partners with Monterey.
(12:18):
Yeah, it's a wonderful program. And if you're interested in
learning more, we actually our very first episode is all about
sea otters and we talk a little bit about our surrogacy program
as well. So just scroll back in your
feeds and you will find that. Yeah, it is pretty cool.
We've been doing a lot of stuff sea otters probably would eat
abalone, however. Sorry.
Yeah, sorry, I'm sorry. You do not need to apologize.
It is all about balance. Nature.
(12:39):
But thank you. Right, you want the full circle.
Exactly. Keystones all around.
Ecosystem approach. Thankfully, and not thankfully,
there are no sea otters this farSouth and so the abalone we're
out planting are safe from predation from the most
voracious mammal in the ocean. Sea otters.
For now, So day 2, abalone release day, whichever it was,
more abalone coming in, we're doing abalone spawns.
(13:01):
You're not just the abalone conservation manager, though,
you also are part of Picnipodia.So Sunflower Stars.
Tell us a little bit about what it looks like to manage that
program. Yeah, the Sunflower Sea Star
program is a really exciting one.
The Aquarium of the Pacific was actually one of the founding
members of our ACA, which is theAssociation of Zoos and
(13:22):
Aquariums SAFE, which stands forSaving Animals from Extinction
Sunflower program, in addition to one of the founding members
of P Core, which is the Pacific Coast Ocean Restoration
Initiative. So the aquarium plays a really
important role in both of those programs.
So it's been really exciting to kind of step into that.
Here on site, we have 7 juvenilesunflower sea stars that were
(13:46):
reared back in 2024. They're actually one day younger
than the abalone that we received, which is really funny.
So the the juvenile sunflower sea stars were fertilized on
February 14th, Valentine's Day. So they are called the Cupid
cohort. So the abalone for reference
(14:06):
would then be February 13th. So they're one day apart.
You can share that with our Osprey.
Population shout out, Lauren, but I guess I make some
brothers, right? Yeah.
To me in Aquarius. Yeah, they're Aquarius brothers.
That works out really well. For the aquarium.
Oh, a fellow Aquarius at the. Table I am I'm February 16th, so
(14:28):
just two days apart. You're also brothers with them.
So I am one of the brothers. Sunflower stars, white abalone
and then Johanna, all brothers. Yeah, exactly.
They were basically triplets, ifyou want to think about it that
way. Yeah.
That makes total sense to me. So we have juvenile sunflower
stars here, 7 We bred them here.They weren't reared here, but
(14:51):
they were part of a collaboration that the Aquarium
of the Pacific was a part of. So some of the gametes from our
historic populations were utilized in the fertilization of
these juveniles and so that we got them when they had settled.
So if you aren't aware, they take about 50 days to settle.
So we got them somewhere after 50 days post or post
(15:13):
fertilization. How big are they now?
Right now our largest one is getting close to 50mm and really
exciting. If you want to come measure it
yourself, you can actually see it on exhibit. 2 cornets. 2
cornets. Or a half dollar.
Or a half dollar. Yeah, like that.
Does that even know? Yeah, He, she, we don't know we
(15:34):
obviously. But they are so cute on exhibit.
And it's the first time we've ever had baby sunflower sea
stars on exhibit. Is that right?
That's correct, yeah. Which exhibit are they in?
They are in Rocky Reef, which ison the 2nd floor in the Northern
Pacific Gallery. Yeah.
So since you last heard a podcast episode from us, we
launched our Stars of the Sea summer program and that's going
to go all the way through next year.
(15:54):
Part of that has been a launch of a new exhibit called Our
Living Coastline, and we're going to have a fan favorite,
Brooke Hernandez, back to speak on that and a future episode.
But yeah, it's stars everywhere,all over the aquarium, but
especially highlighting this crucial conservation effort that
Johanna is a part of. So you should definitely check
it out. There's sea stars highlighted
all around the aquarium with special signs.
They're very beautiful. And you have to see these
(16:16):
babies, sunflower sea stars. They're so sweet.
They're very cute. They are.
They're so cute, and they're notgoing to stay small for long.
These stars get up to three feetin size, so they are very large.
In fact, some argue they're the largest in the world.
So you got to get them now whilethey're while they're cute and
little. And they're the fastest, right?
And they're the fastest, yeah. Does anyone argue that something
(16:37):
else is the largest in the world?
Well, you can argue some tropical species, so there's a
few that come close, so. Sunflower stars are more
temperate then and only live in colder water.
Interesting. We also have a Sunflower Star
episode True back from our firstseason as well, so scroll back
in your feed to find that if you'd like to learn more.
And we'll continue to update on all things Sunflower Picnipodia.
(16:58):
Picnipodia, which is a really fun word that I still don't
always know how to spell. Bra it is a little bit.
Tricky. It is hard.
Can you spell it right now? God.
PPYPYC. N0P 0D IA, yeah.
That was right. No, you could have said
anything. I pass the spell in B.
This is actually why we brought you on.
(17:20):
It's just to test your spelling.So sunflower stars and white
abalone are both projects that the aquarium was a part of prior
to you joining us, as well as one other sort of burgeoning
initiative, which was bulk help,right?
And so how do you participate inand or what does that project
look like to do bulk help conservation?
The bulk help project is really cool.
So we are one of three facilities that are holding the
(17:42):
gametophytes, which is basicallythe reproductive material of
kelp, if you've ever thought about that before.
It's such all I think about. I always think about it.
Yeah, they are not quite. They look like plants, but they
don't reproduce in the same way that plants do.
So they have this really specialized genetic material
(18:03):
essentially. So we keep those gametophytes in
a fridge here. It's basically souped up wine
cooler. It is, it is, it is, and it has
as special light and we control the temperature and each of
those gametophytes are held in asingle tube.
So we have hundreds of tubes in this fridge that we have to do
(18:26):
water changes on twice a year, so.
Only twice a year. Yeah.
Throughout the year, we remove that water and we put a new
water that has really small amounts of nutrients in it to
ensure that the gametophyte doesn't grow too large because
we want it to stay in this little test tube.
So essentially what we're doing for is that we're holding those
(18:46):
gametophytes in the event that the bulk help forests in
Northern California and further north ever disappear.
So we are a copy of a copy of a copy, essentially to back up
this genetic information to ensure that in the case of any
catastrophe, these forests can recover.
In case of emergency break, winecooler, how many other
(19:08):
institutions have bulk help libraries?
Where are one of three. Oh, OK.
So it's nice that we have sort of all that redundancy.
Are they kind of in a deep freeze until we're ready to use
them? We're not quite freezing them.
They're being held in cold water, but they are in water, so
we don't want to fully freeze them.
Probably wouldn't like that. I don't, I don't know.
(19:30):
I don't know if they like that being a nice.
Interesting. Caring for animals and also a
very important plant species andalso kind of treating the plant
species like an animal because it's alive.
It's I'm making it make sense inmy head.
It's fascinating. It is, it is interesting and
kelp is it's own whole thing. Like I didn't realize before
(19:50):
coming. Like I grew up in Hawaii so I
didn't have kelp around. There's different types of
algae, but they really don't exist in the same way.
I very recently went diving for the first time here in
California, which was cool, but there was a lot of kelp
everywhere and it's not something you're really used to
unless you've ever been diving in a kelp forest.
And it is so beautiful and it isso abundant that it is hard to
imagine a. World where kelp is endangered
(20:12):
or not doing the best. What is happening with the bulk
kelp? Why are we preserving them?
Why are we worried specifically about that species?
So kelp in general thrives in really cold water.
It loves the coast of Californiaspecifically and the the Pacific
Coast because of our upwelling that we get here.
So we get really cold, nutrient dense waters from the deep ocean
(20:36):
essentially, which help these species to survive.
But as our oceans are becoming more acidic and as our oceans
are warming, we are losing thesekelp forests because they're not
getting the same nutrients and they're experiencing much higher
summers, essentially much warmerwaters than historically they
have. So these kelp forests are
essentially losing their abilityto thrive off of our coast.
(20:59):
In addition to urchin predation,which is exacerbated by the loss
of keystone species like the sunflower star, which do eat
urchins and sea otters. So very interconnected, and
abalone also get eaten by them. So they're also connected.
But it must be interesting to manage so many different
projects that are both separate,but also functionally all caused
(21:23):
by the same thing. And I think ultimately ties
together why we have the job that you and I have of which is
conservation manager, and what it is that we're trying to
accomplish here. So I know it's three months in,
but you're already doing everything.
So I'm going to already ask the hard questions.
Why is conservation important? And sort of what does your job
do to help conservation? Yeah.
(21:43):
I mean, I think some of what we've talked about already
really highlights why conservation is so important, is
that it really is a web and we don't even fully understand all
of the connections yet of our kelp forest ecosystems.
But conservation essentially is important because we're
protecting the biodiversity of these ecosystems, which in turn
(22:04):
provides us with great resourceslike protecting our coastlines,
helping us to provide food, but it also provides habitat for
other species. So it gives other animals off of
our coast a place to live. And it really essentially in
whole, makes our ecosystems moreresilient to climate change.
So the more biodiverse our ecosystems are, the more
(22:26):
resilient they are. So conservation is really
necessary at this point. I mean, speaking for my species
alone, abalone were known to be around about 80 million years
ago, is the oldest fossil we have for them.
Wow, sea stars predated dinosaurs by over 200 million
years. I mean, these kelp forests are
(22:46):
thought to be about 32,000,000 years old.
So these species have been around for quite literally
millions of years, and in just afew decades they've become
extinct or close to being extinct.
And so I think it really is partof our role and our
responsibility to help conserve these species and intern the
(23:07):
ecosystems. Thank you.
A lot of those anthropogenic factors and human cost factors
are what seems to be accelerating the rate at which
we are losing species and losingbiodiversity.
And it is really cool to have known of these projects and
known that we are participating in them, but now especially
because, like we said, they're so connected and they're also
(23:27):
related to the kelp forest and preservation of that ecosystem.
It's really cool to see all of that work being consolidated in
one person because I think that is also symbolic of the
interconnectedness of how much these projects really overlap.
So it's been really cool to haveyou here.
And how have your first three months been busy?
They've been busy, but in all the best ways, I mean this, I
(23:49):
grew up here in California and especially in Southern
California. So these are the waters that I
grew up swimming in. And, you know, I really have
grown with this, like stewardship.
My parents really instilled thatin me for our coast and how
important our coast is. So I think being able to be in a
role now where I'm really getting to play a deep role in a
(24:11):
lot of this conservation work has been so fulfilling and so
exciting. So it's been busy, but in all
the best ways. I agree.
Beautiful. Well, Aaron, I want to throw a
similar question to you. What inspires you about
conservation? Similar, I grew up in Hawaii and
I grew up being able to see really the best of the best of
(24:31):
everything in the natural world,like the most pristine ocean,
the most pristine beaches, rare birds that you'll never see
anywhere else. And like, learned a lot about
speciation and how unique and special everything that we had
was. And I think it was really
difficult for me to move away from Hawaii and feel like that
mindset wasn't as universal as potentially it was when I was
(24:52):
growing up in an environment where that was very much at the
forefront of how everyone thought and how everyone acted.
And so I moved to the East Coastfor a little bit.
It was very jarring to see someone start trash on the
ground. Like, I've never seen that in my
life. And it seems so alarming to me
that people live this way. And I understand that that isn't
ever really meant to do harm. Like people aren't doing that
(25:13):
intentionally. And so I think that's been this
long journey of trying to figureout how to show someone what is
special about the natural world and why they should just think a
little bit more before they interact with our natural
environment. And that is both very
challenging because everyone comes from different
backgrounds. And by no means do I ever want
to shame someone or make them feel less than for not knowing
(25:34):
about something. But there is also so much cool
stuff I want to show them. And all of that cool stuff does
go away if we don't sort of communally come together and
work on some of these things. Plus I now really get to be
involved with a lot of rare frogspecies and that is pretty cool
because we don't really I get towork with species that people
(25:55):
have never seen before. Like I think that is very cool
and fulfilling in its own right.But then also there is
periodically these very weird and weird in the most positive
way, herptile people or frog loving people who come to the
aquarium and are like, I have never seen a mountain yellow
legged frog, but I have spent years looking for them.
And it is so cool to just be able to show someone this 780
(26:17):
that we have behind the scenes and be like, these guys are
going back out in the wild and they're going to be released at
some point. And so I think it's all about
finding ways to inspire people and connect people to that.
And also just to find what resonates with every individual
because it's always going to be different.
And it's been cool because I have very little connection to
the fish and invertebrate side of things that we do here at the
aquarium. And so when people would come
(26:38):
and do these tours, I can show them sea otters, I can show the
mountain yellow legged frogs, I can show them whatever else we
have going on. But then they'll be like, hey,
what about the kelp? They'll be like, who?
I don't know as much about fridge.
Yeah, we have this cool fridge, but I'm not sure.
I don't know if they're frozen. I don't know anything about it.
And so it's been really nice nowto have sort of my my equal.
(26:58):
To counterpart. Yeah, counterpart.
Exactly. Probably more than equal at this
point. I think you've called 2000 to my
780. So I think that we are, we're
doing very similar things. It's just cool to have someone
that I can reference and sort ofknow they have that same
ambition and repository of information, but about projects
that I can't know that much about because my head would
(27:19):
explode. Speaking of your frogs, you want
to give an update on all things Frog Land.
Yeah, I'll keep it brief becausewe know a lot about these frogs
anyway, but. We also have a Mountain Yellow
Legged Frog episode a couple seasons ago.
Check that out For more information on the Mountain
Yellow Legged. Frog.
It's just me talking a lot aboutfrogs.
So as of right now we have released 638 mountain yellow
(27:40):
legged frogs. The last official count I
believe was maybe 5 or 6 years ago, but it was 188 adults in
the wild. Since then, unfortunately, we
have had some wildfires that have impacted their habitat.
One of them in particular potentially burned about 95% of
the usable habitat for this already endangered species.
And during one of the site surveys, they also noticed the
(28:01):
high incidence of kytrid fungus,which is unfortunately a disease
that is very deadly for amphibians in some of the usable
habitat. And they did see a population
crash, so the species isn't doing the best in the wild right
now, which is why we opted to take on more individuals for
head starting this year. So across the five holding
spaces that we have for these animals, we currently have 780
(28:23):
animals, which is a lot. The recruitment rate for this
species in the wild is about 1% from egg to adult.
We're very fortunate in that when we receive them as tadpoles
up until release, we've been seeing historic like on average
60 to 70% survivorship, which isgreat.
Obviously there's a lot of things that go into that and
obviously all the frogs that go out don't survive as much as in
my heart, I really wish that. They all did, I feel.
(28:47):
That one, yeah. It's, it's devastating a little
bit to be like, I really hope you do good out there.
But when we went out on a site survey, we actually saw one of
the frogs that we released last year.
And I think for the first time Iknew for a fact that was one of
our frogs because that was that site was empty the previous
year. And I think it was Big Chicken
who I think I've referenced had to be Big Chicken for.
(29:09):
But we had lives on. She's out there, she's making
babies, but we saw three or 4 mountain elegant frogs.
One in particular was very large, and I think that because
they hadn't seen any and the only animals they released at
that site last year were ours, they're very likely to be ones
that we reared. So very fulfilling to see a few
of them. And then I actually got to go
out on the release as well with LA Zoo, and they released some
(29:29):
tadpoles and we released some ofour young frogs.
So it was nice to kind of have this.
Everyone comes together and doesthis amazing thing together.
So 638 is our current release number.
If I hit 1000, I can retire, is what I keep telling you
everyone. No, no, no, he can't still pot.
I'll just do full time podcasting.
Yeah, a million for I. Think yeah, up to 1,000,000,
(29:49):
that's a way. Better.
That's fine. There's not that many of them
and they do reproduce by the thousands, but I feel like a
million is 1000 thousands and I don't know that we have space
for that. That's a lot.
It is a lot. But the other really cool thing
that we got to be a part of thissummer that took up a lot of my
time but was totally worth it, is the National Park Service
(30:11):
reached out to us with a projectto Head start California red
legged frogs. And they had collected these egg
masses from the streams that were being adversely impacted by
very late winter storms. So when there's a ton of rain,
basically these egg masses wouldthen just get washed downstream
and the tadpoles would very likely not hatch out or survive.
But they collected partial egg masses just for a captive
(30:33):
assurance population, which is just us holding on to them and
rearing them here. And we were able to rear and
release 587 tadpoles, which is fantastic.
So red legged frogs are a threatened species and a species
of special concern here. And it was really cool to work
in conjunction with National Park Service and they sent some
pictures of them pouring the tadpoles into the stream, which
(30:53):
was really cool. So that it's been a very frog.
Summer how many different colorsof legs are there in?
Frog World, I think it's just red and yellow, but there's also
Sierra yellow legged frogs. Like there's other yellow legged
frogs. There's probably other red
legged frogs, but I don't know. And so I don't know why they're
naming them just by leg color. So specific.
(31:15):
But it's been a very froggy summer, and we've released about
700 amphibians in some way, shape or form, even just this
year, which is pretty cool, too,yeah.
It's been a pretty intense year here in California.
Of course, we start off the yearwith our detrimental wildfires.
The aquarium has assisted with several animals as a part of the
disaster response, including some tidewater gobies, and I'll
include a link to that in the show notes of the social media
(31:37):
story we did on those. It was a really, really
beautiful release day that we did on those little, tiny little
fish that are so impactful, and it was such a collaborative
effort. I'll include some notes on that
in the show notes, so stay tunedfor that.
It's been cool. It's been busy, yeah.
Therefore not podcasting very much to say.
I know we're getting back to it.Back to it.
And now we have a whole new person to interview about
(31:59):
abalone. I have a feeling we will not
have any issue filling an entirehour with abalone.
Oh no. Maybe 2.
Maybe. Maybe we interview an abalone
hold. And I think it'll go.
Even better than. Lola as silent as Lola we had
had our sulfur aggressive cockatoo on the podcast in this
room. We were very excited to
interview Lola and he, I think the silence of this room and
(32:21):
I've never seen that bird be quiet in my life, but he, he's.
Just yelling at admin today. Screaming out here, came into
this room, closed the door and he didn't make a sound the
entire time and we couldn't evenfor like seeds and treats and
things that he liked, he would not.
Well, abalone are always silent,so maybe they're going to come
in here and. Scream.
Abalone. Start reciting a poem.
(32:41):
What would you do if they just started making sounds while in
here? I think I would probably cry
that. Would be an amazing discovery
for our podcast. That's true.
That's what we need if you. Can make that happen.
That'll be. Awesome.
I need to think about like what?The first question I would ask
them is why? What do you like to eat?
And it's Macrosus. Algae.
Algae. More algae?
(33:01):
Yeah, we're feeding them. Do we grow the kelp that we feed
them? We don't grow the kelp, but we
do grow some doles, which is a red algae species.
I say grow in very light terms. We purchase it and then it grows
slowly. So it's growing a little bit as
we feed it, but we usually do have to restock.
(33:21):
But we are growing a microalgae,A diatom specifically that they
love to eat called navicula. So it's actually really
nutritious for them when they'reyoung because it's really lipid
rich. So it kind of helps them as they
grow up. And we're actually looking to do
a little bit more specialized diets in the future for our
brewed stock, those ones that will stay with us because it's
(33:43):
thought that the lipid rich Navicula is really great for
females who are developing egg yolks, but not quite as great
for the males. We want them to stay nice and
lean. So we'll be using that species
quite a bit moving forward. As a female, I love lipid rich
foods. Too.
So I can totally see you. That is actually the scientific
(34:05):
paper is all females want something that's lipid rich at
all times. That's pretty cool.
Yeah. We can easily fill a whole
episode on abalone, their favorite foods, what they like,
what they don't like. Poetry.
Reading from them. That's the only poetry we accept
on this podcast. Abalone Poetry I.
Love it. Well, thank you both so much for
chatting with us about conservation.
Any last words about conservation that you'd like to
(34:27):
share? I think that one thing that is
so inspiring about doing conservation work is that it
will never be one person. It will never be 1 institution.
It really is the collaboration between partners that leads to
the success of these programs. And so I think that's one of the
most inspiring parts of being inthis line of work is that you're
(34:48):
surrounded, like Aaron said, by so many people that care about
all the same things that you care about and are equally as
passionate and equally as driven.
And it really pushes you to likeit.
It builds on that, you know, like it's an energy that you can
kind of feel and it makes everyone really excited to do
the work. So I really do love the
collaboration aspect of it, something that's really special
(35:09):
in this in this line of work. Definitely shout out to our
partners. Shout out to all frogs and
snails. Shout out to the snail people,
yeah? There's a surprising amount of
snail people. Yeah, there are, and rightfully.
So, OK, you're right. Sorry.
She's. Like I'm one of them.
Yeah. Thank you so much for joining us
(35:30):
for this little conservation catch up.
So thanks. For having me.
So yeah, thanks for being on thepodcast.
Okay, you guys got to go back tobeing critical to conservation
efforts. Joanna probably has to go on a
dive. Right now.
Yeah, Literally now. She has to go.
I'm. Due to the water.
In the water, calling me. I have to go be with my snails
now. Just saying check back in the
(35:50):
Northern Gallery in a mere few weeks because we will likely
have juvenile bulk help back on.Exhibit where?
It'll be right next to our sunflower sea star actually, so
it'll be in bays and sounds. That'll be full habitat.
And bays and sounds cool. Aquarium of the Pacific is
(36:16):
brought to you by Aquarium of the Pacific, A501-C3 nonprofit
organization. Keep up with the aquarium on
social media at Aquarium Pacificon TikTok, Instagram, Facebook,
Twitter and LinkedIn. This podcast is produced by
Aaron Lundy and Madeline Walden.Our music is by Andrew Reitsma
and our podcast art is by BrandyKenny.
Special thanks to Cecile Fisher,Anita Vaez, our audio, visual
(36:39):
and education departments, and our amazing podcast guests for
taking time out of their day to talk about the important work
that they do. Podsific is impossible without
the support of the Aquarium's donors, members, guests and
supporters. Thanks so much for listening.
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