April 15, 2024 • 36 mins
In this episode, Dr. Anne Prisco, President of Holy Family University is joined by Sarita Brown, Co-founder & President of Excelencia in Education. They discuss the founding of Excelencia in 2001 with a focus on enhancing Latino student success in education. The dialogue covers various topics, including addressing post-2000 census stereotypes of Latinos, the importance of data for first-generation and financially constrained students, and the advocacy of the Association of Catholic Colleges and Universities. They share personal stories and insights into the efforts of Holy Family University to serve the Latino student population effectively. The conversation also touches on the significance of faith-based institutions in providing holistic education that integrates faith, family, and a commitment to serving, aiming to nurture the whole person.
To learn more about Sarita and Excelencia in Education please visit edexcelencia.org
And to learn more about Holy Family University please visit holyfamily.edu
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Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
Music.
(00:06):
I'm Ann Prisco, president of Holy Family University, and you're listening to Asked and Answered.
Today, I'm thrilled to welcome Sarita Brown, co-founder and president of Excellencia in Education.
Our paths first crossed in 2001, coinciding with the founding of Excellencia.
With Holy Family University currently serving a growing Latino student population, population.
(00:31):
I'm eager to explore strategies for enhancing Latino student success with Sarita.
Welcome, Sarita. And truth be told, we've known each other a very long time.
So thank you for joining me today.
My pleasure. So first up, we've known each other for a while.
We kind of grew up together in this world. So could you share some insights
(00:54):
into the founding of Excellencia back back in 2001.
And how are you feeling like goals have evolved over the years in terms of what
you imagine this effort was going to be?
Delighted to, delighted to. The impetus in many ways for the founding of Excellencia
(01:14):
in Education officially in 2004 started in the late 90s.
I had the privilege of serving as executive director of the White House Initiative
on Educational Excellence for Hispanic Americans,
which was an eye-opening responsibility looking at all of federal government
and how our government engages Latino talent and serves the Latino population.
(01:40):
That in and of itself is powerful, but probably for me professionally and personally,
what was equally powerful is that I had the privilege of meeting my colleague,
our co-founder, our common friend, and Deborah Santiago.
She was a policy analyst in the Department of Education and was equally focused
(02:02):
on the, I'll just be blunt, wrongheadedness of how the discussions,
national discussions, regional discussions about Latinos took shape.
Because from those years, 90s into early 2000s, and that was the release of
the 2000 census, Without meaning to, more often than not the framing.
(02:25):
Implied as if it was Latinos that were the issue, as opposed to how Deborah
and I saw it, which is the structures of whether it be education,
K-12, whether it be college and university,
whether it be employment, it's that which really was, from our perspective, the intersection.
(02:46):
And framing it correctly, which
is the growth of the Latino community is a life force for this country.
It's an asset for our future workforce.
It's a potential in the hands of educators, in the hands of employers.
And yes, we brought a predisposition, and that was the Latino community is eager to participate.
(03:09):
We work really hard. We want to be contributing to this country,
and we can get into a lot of data and information to back that up.
It's not just a feeling. But it was that which really propelled us to say,
there's got to be a different way to look at this opportunity that we talk about,
(03:30):
which is the size of the Latino student population and the future of this country. Thank you.
And as we both have walked this path together, back in 2001,
I had just joined Lehman University.
And at that point, it was 52% Latino population.
So this was very real to me. Ricardo Fernandez was the president.
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And I'm going to tease you because I'll never forget, you called me the white lady in the suit.
And I'm thinking, what are you talking about? I'm this Brooklyn kid who's the
child of an immigrant construction worker. I don't think of myself as a white
lady in a suit, but you made me realize, unless I'm willing to tell my story,
that's the way students would see me.
There you go. So it would wake up for me to say, I may not be Latino,
(04:18):
but there's some similarities in our upbringings, and there are some that aren't, and I need to learn.
So with that was this wonderful framing of, it is one thing to have a growing
Latino population. population, it's another thing to be intentional about serving.
(04:38):
And so let's, can we talk a little bit about that? Because now I'm at Holy Family, right?
I've been at Hispanic serving institutions since back in 2001.
We have a growing Latino population.
We're at 16% now. We've grown like from eight to 16 in three years.
And it has been intentional in terms of where we recruit our students who we
(05:00):
serve, who we believe we should serve based on our mission and values.
Let's tease this out a little bit about what is this notion of,
you know, you're Hispanic serving by a percentage versus what is the intentionality
about the care of this population and the education? Absolutely.
So since you, we know each other and we're talking our origin story,
(05:23):
the very first publication that Excelencia in Education released in 2004 is
Latino Student Success at Hispanic Serving Institutions.
And it was the very project that you're referencing when you were at Lehman College.
The distinction that we made and continue to make is that this method for some
(05:46):
institutions to reach an enrollment threshold of 25% full-time equivalent Latino
enrollment, you can reach that.
And it can be a fact so that you are eligible to apply for federal support.
Even when you reach it, the very point that you're asking about,
(06:09):
Anne, is not guaranteed because it is what goes on within the institution.
Institution. Starting from the point that a student applies,
the match that we hope every institution, when they extend admissions.
Makes in their own mind, the social contract, that if you're admitting a student,
(06:30):
you believe that they have what it takes, and that you will then,
as educators, support that student all the way through.
That premise has, over the 20 years that at Excellencia in Education has done
our work, taken shape along data.
Practice, and leadership. We have a very robust portfolio, which I hope you'll
(06:53):
ask me questions about and I can tell you more about.
But the point for right now in this conversation is what you do,
how you do it, and how, as leaders of an educational environment,
you continually audit the impact.
That's really what is in play when Excelencia says to someone someone like yourself,
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who is intentional about the vision you have for your institution, what is it you do?
There are characteristics of Latino students that we share with others,
but they're very dominant among Latino students.
We are usually the first in our families to go to college, and that brings with
it informational needs that are very different from the children of college-educated parents.
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We usually are low-income. We're not someone who can casually look at high tuition,
living costs, and say, I'll go, you know, whoever has my major.
So we make practical choices on what we can afford and sometimes the perception
of what we can afford because colleges and universities don't always demystify that.
And then this whole idea of how we navigate college, which is that usually we
(08:06):
do it not because we're not committed to our studies, because we're committed
to our lives and our families.
So we navigate oftentimes with dependence, whether they're our own children,
whether they're feeling a sense of responsibility for family.
In no way does any of that indicate a lack of interest or commitment to our studies.
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Institutions that have been successful,
at looking at what is offered, why it's offered in the format that it's offered,
and how, at the point of admission of a student, we want that student to succeed.
Those are institutions that have begun to look carefully at the impact of what
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they offer and the trajectory for all students who go through.
So we have now a seal of excelencia, And it is a certification system.
But the point for this bigger issue in America is that the discussion about
colleges and universities ready to take willing students into their campus community.
(09:14):
Support and propel them, that's what we mean by intentionally serving.
And going back to the beginning of this, simply enrolling, with all due respect,
it can be a revolving door.
I mean, you can enroll, but do they graduate? And do they graduate with the
strength of an educational experience that propels them into first jobs, fruitful lives?
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That's really what it's about, serving. And for all these years that we've done
our work, we went from broad narrative to operational methods to content knowledge.
And all of that is what we offer presidents like yourself who are saying,
on my watch, we're going to do this.
Well, OK, so let's unpack that a little bit, because there's several levels
(10:00):
of that I want to talk about. So.
So disaggregating data is something, right? Estella Ben-Simon,
years ago, we started talking about the Equity Scorecard Project.
And how do you really know how you're doing unless you look at your data and
stop talking about averages, but look at the different populations you're serving, right?
Absolutely. I'm going to call out some stats and then a few things I want us to make out of that.
(10:25):
One is, what does this suggest about preparing our students for the workforce
and how they enter the workforce? force?
And then sort of what policy implications do they have after that?
Because one of the things we always talked about is, okay, we want them to do
undergraduate programs, but then we want them, what is going to be the pipeline
into graduate programs, into professional, right?
(10:47):
How are Latino as a new community in this country going to grow and become part
of the fabric and successful fabric of the country, right?
So when we look at stats, and this is why disaggregating really As of 2021.
The United States can say 38% of our adult population holds a bachelor's degree, 38%.
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But when you break it down by ethnicity, the Asian population,
61% hold a bachelor's degree.
For white folks, it's 42%. For blacks, it's 28%.
And for Hispanics or Latinos, and we can go down a whole pipeline of what we
call the words we use, is 20%.
(11:32):
So as of 2021, a Latino population has the smallest percentage of those small
groups in terms of a bachelor's degree.
And we know in this country that.
Social mobility, and I'm very proud that Holy Family is ranked nationally as
a tier one for social mobility,
is a big piece of what we try and do when we welcome first generation families
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and students to move them up through what we consider a successful life in the United States,
which is why many of our families came here to begin with.
So when we see that, what does that suggest to us in terms of what are we doing
in terms of preparing them for the workforce and what maybe she would be doing better?
(12:17):
And then, you know, on top of that, what does it say from a policy implication
from everything from the institutional level to the federal level?
You already gave data, and that's always good.
The relative performance of Latinos in terms of baccalaureate recipients is
important to keep in mind.
For those who want more data, we have had a longstanding project where we look
(12:41):
at Latino college completion by states, and we profile on our website the top
10 institutions, associate.
Baccalaureate, and graduate level, so that we can get to the question that you're
answering, which is, which are the institutions right now that are the magnet
for Latinos to enroll and graduate?
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What is it that those institutions do that others can learn from?
What are the internal policies and methods that the institutions or systems
or state offer that can be replicated?
That's one line of work. The other, because you talk about employers,
and I want to come at it slightly differently, because the employer part of
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it and the trajectory of defining success,
I think, and when we kicked off, we talked broadly about how we started,
but I didn't overtly say, excelencia in education's mission is,
is accelerating Latino student success. That is our mission.
Defining that has always been within the institution, but in the last five years,
(13:49):
we have increasingly looked at this question.
Of what do the students say about their success for workforce or work-related,
and then what does the institution say?
And this is where I want to add yet another dimension of data.
Latinos have of the highest labor force participation with 66% of those 16 years
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or older in the labor force, demonstrating that we will account for 91% of all the new workers.
So our animo, our enthusiasm to work hard and to participate,
it's demonstrated every which way.
At the same time, now we go back to where you are. The degree of preparation,
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training, and education for
Latinos to enter the workforce, that's really where this discussion is.
And in that, the proposition that Excellencia has offered for a long time is
that we do it within colleges and universities.
But in the last five years, increasingly, we're looking and working with leaders
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like yourself who are are civic-minded.
And see your institution as the nexus, but you also see the broader community.
You have your own ecosystem.
And entrepreneurial presidents for Latino student success,
which we're proud to call you, are people who look at the educational mission
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and also at the readiness of your institution to pay attention to the job market,
to look at disciplines within the institution, And to have faculty and staff
ready to help all your students be ready for the workforce.
In that respect, there is a framing, but there still isn't a talent flow from
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all the places that are graduating into the jobs.
In fact, for that reason, we've maintained our publication, Finding Your Workforce,
which we just released last month.
And it takes that same sort of analysis, which are the institutions in the country
graduating the largest numbers of Latinos.
And quite frankly, we do that as much as any for employers, because employers
(16:06):
will often go to where they went to school, or they'll go to what they know.
And if yours is an institution that is increasing, let's say,
nursing, graduates in nursing, and for whatever reason, the hospitals and employers
of nurses in your region have usually looked elsewhere,
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how do you disrupt that with an asset-based report which says,
look at this institution and look at who's graduating?
The answer to the question is you have to intervene.
You have to take this data, and then you have to look at where are the points
to disrupt what is habit of mind
with positive information, and more importantly, with Latino graduates.
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Now, as it relates to policy, this is where it's exciting, but it's also unclear.
It's exciting because I think everybody is increasingly talking about workforce.
We're talking about talent and employment.
It's not clear because everybody is iterating all over the place.
And so technical training is increased, debates about whether or not you even
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should get a college degree is on the table.
If you're a first-generation collegegoer and your parents are already a little
skeptical about why you should go to college and then you've got this going,
that is the environment.
So from a policy perspective, Excellencia is very much focused on looking at
practices which move aspiring students to achieve the goals they wish.
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And then from those goals statements into acquisition of a degree and.
And then who are the employers that choose to employ them?
And then what is the retention rate within the employer?
And that's where colleges and universities also have a role to play.
Because if you're sending your best and brightest, we hope that you'll stay
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in touch with your alumni and that they can tell you if the employers who have
been the place of their first jobs are places that really want them to thrive.
Because the objective here is not to just to bounce around, but to find a place to really contribute.
And being part of a community and an ecosystem really matters.
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So a couple of things, part of this has been, I think, not only just cultural,
but the change in expectations in higher ed.
There was a time, maybe not quite when we started, but certainly before us,
when students were told at orientation, look to your left, look to your right,
at least one of of you is not going to be here.
And it's changed from you as a student better cut it or you're out to if you've
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been you university or college,
if you've admitted a student, you've made a commitment saying you believe that
student is a good fit for your university and should be able to successfully
complete a program and meet their own goals.
And that's sort of where the lens we we come from now?
How do we help our students if we've admitted them to succeed?
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And to your point, why not start out with a credential, a stackable certificate?
We know financial aid is really, really important and cost really,
really matters to this population.
So how do we make this indigestible bites so that someone who can't think of
going four years full-time all at once, we create a path for them.
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And many of us figured out how to do this without any intentional structures
in place for us to do it. We just figured it out.
We went part-time, we went full-time, we had babies, we went back,
we took turns with our spouses, whatever we had to do.
And we know that's what these families are doing as well.
So one of the things that I hear is, because we are very much a community anchor-based institution,
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most of our students come from the the area and stay in the area,
is we want your students because your students reflect a diversity of the communities
where they're going to serve.
That is something that you're right. It's that whole ecosystem and how do we
support them and encouraging them to attend in whatever way they can and keep
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them in this pipeline so they can succeed further.
And definitely you are advancing success.
And you are supporting students who, more than anything else, continue to strive.
And that is what gives them entree to all that you do.
Unfortunately, despite the fact that we look at data and we have these discussions,
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we treat students that follow the path you just described as anomalies.
Over 80% of America's students follow that path. And yet they do it with some
level of criticism or baggage that they're doing it incorrectly.
They are the post-traditional students. And what has to be realized by all of
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us is that to treat them as anything less than those who will succeed,
that shortchanges everybody.
And that's what happens within colleges and universities, led by people like
yourself, who really are recognizing there are certain elements in higher education
that are not just traditions, but they're the source of strength.
(21:23):
But there's a lot about the delivery system that really is very pliant.
And it's time that we thought about that and made adaptations so that the students
continue to move through successfully. Which is something we're constantly questioning ourselves.
Two things. So one is, you know, as we know, we've had a conversation.
I bounced around from public institutions, secular, large, small.
(21:47):
I've been now second presidency at what we would consider smaller because we're
under 53600 Catholic based or Holy Family University here in Philly.
And I've been talking to my colleagues at the Association of Catholic Colleges
and Universities because more of us, as we know, whether intentional or not,
we're serving growing populations of Latino students.
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So how do we get better at this and pull out our intentionality?
When from a sheer numbers, we may never come to the top 10 because our populations
are smaller to begin with. So it's more about percentages.
What percentage of our populations is Latino? What percentage of our Latino
students are being successful?
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So part of what I consider my role now amongst my Catholic college colleagues
is, and because the truth is most of us, by the way, more of our students are
not Catholic than are necessarily Catholic, right? Because we serve all.
How do we do this in a way where we know many of our institutions actually have
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the frame to be more successful because we are smaller, because we are, by definition.
More focused on smaller communities, right? When we were at big schools before,
I'm learning communities.
Well, I just keep saying my whole university is one big learning community with 3,600 students.
If you're 36,000 students, you better figure out how to make learning communities, right? Right.
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So any insight into as we approach this and maybe talking a little bit about
the lessons learned or where we can go to and others can go to who want to get
better about this, about how do we serve our Latino students?
Well, this is an ongoing discussion and not to be risque here, size matters.
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I mean, size matters in the sense of the conditions under which as a student
you thrive or as a parent that you think your child will thrive.
And education is a human enterprise. So there are many students that will seek
out, if affordable and if known and if available, exactly the kind of learning
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environments that faith-based institutions offer. offer.
In the years that we've had the Presidents for Latino Student Success Network.
The number of private institutions and faith-based institutions has grown.
A characteristic they all have in common is a campus culture,
and that culture does speak to values.
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Whether it's overtly religious or not, there is a prevalence of purposeful living,
of a narrative of why the institution was created and that the enterprise of
education is part and parcel of becoming an adult,
of becoming a contributing person in the community.
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Those are themes and measures that.
People seek. Students will gravitate to them.
And the degree to which they align with the practical content knowledge that
propel a student to get a degree, that's a very powerful combination.
So it's not a matter of trying to present something to compete with.
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It's unique. It's different.
And it's worthy of recognizing those differences. I mean, you're talking to
somebody who co-founded an organization that back 20 years ago,
there were lots of good things.
There still are lots of good things, but they weren't getting the job done.
And we decided to hang out our shingle and say, we're going to add to the portfolio. folio.
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Faith-based institutions, smaller institutions,
have a very powerful role to play, and even more so when the institution is
mindful of its opportunity to expand the participation of Latinos.
So things that are harder to do in bigger places, but relatively easy when you're
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smaller, scholar, just recognize that more often than not, it's not just Latino students,
but more often than not, Latino students, when the child is going to college,
the whole family is going to college.
And so if the whole family is going to college, then plan on it.
Don't be doling out two tickets for commencement.
Understand there's going to be multiple cars and everybody's going to be there.
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And of course, that has all kinds of benefits to the institution because who
knows the people who who come for commencement they want.
So those are some of, but the overriding part of it is, for me,
who goes in and out of different gatherings of institutions,
it is the purposeful quality, the value-driven quality of faith-based institutions.
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And you know, because we've had recent conversations, that the opportunity for
faith-based Catholic institutions in particular to really lean in.
Your colleague, president of St. Edward's University, has done exactly that.
She's the first, and they are the first to earn the seal of excelencia.
And when you unpack what they say about their data, their practice,
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and their leadership, they go to their roots as it relates to their founding,
which has religious orientation.
They go to their longstanding history. Most faith-based institutions are longstanding. They're not new.
And they invoke what they've done as neighbors in a community and the role that
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they've played in the community.
All of those things are very compelling.
Now, couple that with practical information, which you already have.
I think that this is, it's not just a niche. I think it's an important contribution
to the potential for students.
Right. And that's what I keep saying to everyone, too. I mean,
it's not just it's a niche. It's who we are.
(27:41):
It's what we're supposed to be doing, right? It's sort of fundamental.
So thank you for that, man. You could be a great college president. You know that, right?
I get to be with presidents. That's my problem.
A lot, obviously. you gotta talk on president speak
you know what i would love to study to one of the things that
i always say especially you know because our
(28:02):
we all know our students are you know we think they all understand careers and
life paths and that somehow you know we knew we wanted to do when we were 18
and we just like followed this yellow brick road and you go no no life is much
more messy than that could you tell us a little bit about yourself or your thoughts
about sort of of, you know,
your sort of what lessons learned as you've grown up and been in different places
(28:27):
and lived in different, you know, kind of worlds.
Any lessons learned from this? Well, thank you, Anne, for that.
Part of a story I do tell is how in some way looking over my shoulder,
it makes it appear as if I always knew I'd be doing what I do, but that was not my path.
I, as an undergraduate student at the University of Texas at Austin,
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first time in my family to go to college, only thing I really knew is I had to get a good job.
The only thing I knew I had to do was get a job afterwards.
That was it. And yet, and yet, I did think that the opportunity to decide what
to do was something to think seriously about. out.
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And the whimsical thing is I was covering all my bases. So I'm going to get
a teaching certificate.
Lots of students think, okay, I can teach, right? I know school,
I can teach. Well, back then, back then, see how far we've come.
You had to take six hours of ethnic studies.
I mean, now we're fighting like crazy to take it out of the classroom.
But back then to get a teaching certificate, you had to take ethnic studies.
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So I took my first Chicano studies class to get my teacher's certificate and it changed my life.
Because the content of the class gave me an explanation for power structures
in the state of Texas, for how I saw opportunity being distributed.
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A field of study I knew nothing about, but it made sense. And from that point,
I changed my major, I did all those things.
Then when I had to decide what to do,
it was in many respects how to then put certain things into play.
So I had the opportunity, speaking with the graduate dean, to help build the
(30:20):
minority recruitment program at the University of Texas at Austin.
And for 15 years, that's what I did, making common cause with faculty all over the campus.
And it taught me so many things, things which ultimately,
when I came to Washington, DC for what I thought was going to be a two-year
aventura, and then found myself at the White House with this executive order
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with 24 federal agencies, the architecture of a big university.
Eight different colleges, the provost's office, the president,
in my mind, is very much akin to 24 federal agencies, the White House.
So you do the same. The point is,
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I'm lucky in that I found a cause when I was young,
and I've had the ability to apply useful things in every environment I've ever
been in with the mindset that we can change the world.
I mean, it might just get a little Pollyanna here, but I think it's our responsibility.
(31:29):
If we think it can be better, then get about it. What are you going to do?
And then how do you do it in allyship with people who share the same perspective?
Even if we're not exactly clear of the future vision, we know it can be better.
Today, more than ever, more than ever, we have have to believe that.
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And the ability to, yes, pay my bills and make sure that I'm responsible and I do my job per se,
but do it against the backdrop of we're all part of a broader community when
we see each other that way.
And then we decide for ourselves what matters.
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What will will we work on together?
And that's how you and I have known each other all these years. That's the privilege.
And the privilege and the recognition of the responsibility and also the value
of education. Think of what you just said. It was a class.
That you took, that you weren't even sure what it was going to be about, right?
And that's what, so what I usually tell my freshmen, right, when they're going
(32:40):
to look at facing gen ed, and what is gen ed?
And they say, why do I have to take this class? And this is going to be a boring
class. Why do I need this?
Well, it's because you just never know. You never know what's going to spark your interest.
And even if it's boring, that's what it means to be an educated person.
You're going to know a lot about a lot of different things.
Some of it's going to to be interesting to you and some of it isn't.
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But to your point, if you hadn't taken that class, we would have known.
That's the whole point. The only thing I would add, because my own daughter
is navigating her path and trying to figure it out.
She's doing well, thank you. But the other thing is that there is a lot of pressure
for everyone and I've got to make the right choice.
(33:24):
So if we're talking students, I've got to make the right... Yes,
you do have to make the right choice for today.
And whatever it is that you do for today, you got to take care of business,
you have to make sure you maintain, you fulfill, and then you keep your eye on the future.
And the future, to the very point that we're both saying is,
there are things about it you can predict pretty accurately,
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and there's a lot that we don't know yet.
And the resilience to be be ready for it.
If there is a dynamic that I do think we all want to pass on,
it's not just confidence like I can handle anything.
Yeah, but in your soul, do you really feel that way?
You feel that way because you've stayed curious, you've stayed engaged,
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and you've stayed optimistic.
And the degree to which in education, this kind of talk isn't like,
oh, what is she talking about you know would that fit into every sector maybe
not it fits into education because in education we see each other and we with
content knowledge for sure disciplinary focus for sure.
(34:29):
And success. And success is the whole person, not just the grades and not just
the degree, it's the whole person.
And that's where we have a real commitment to that, right? As faith-based institutions.
I mean, it always is about, and I know what it's like, because when you're a secular institution,
sometimes even the language you use is a little more, you know,
(34:51):
limited in different ways, but the fact that we care about the whole person
and it's inside, outside the classroom, body, mind, spirit.
So touche. And the hope is so important right now, because I really do believe,
I mean, we have to, we have to.
And how lucky are we that we got to spend our lives.
You know, they always say, if you're passionate, my kids will say, mind, we work so hard.
(35:13):
And it's like, but remember what they say, if you really care about what you
do, you're not working, because you're serving.
And I think that's what we've both been doing all along. So thank you.
Thank you. Thank you. Wonderful conversation.
And we will have many more of these, we know.
Thank you, Anne. Thank you. And congratulations again on your leadership role
(35:34):
at this institution and the benefit of your personality and style on the community
that you continue to build.
Thank you. To learn more about Holy Family University, please visit holyfamily.edu.
Onward and Upward Together in Faith and Family, I'm Ann Prisco and thank you for listening.
(35:55):
Music.
Music.
(00:06):
I'm Ann Prisco, president of Holy Family University, and you're listening to Asked and Answered.
Today, I'm thrilled to welcome Sarita Brown, co-founder and president of Excellencia in Education.
Our paths first crossed in 2001, coinciding with the founding of Excellencia.
With Holy Family University currently serving a growing Latino student population, population.
(00:31):
I'm eager to explore strategies for enhancing Latino student success with Sarita.
Welcome, Sarita. And truth be told, we've known each other a very long time.
So thank you for joining me today.
My pleasure. So first up, we've known each other for a while.
We kind of grew up together in this world. So could you share some insights
(00:54):
into the founding of Excellencia back back in 2001.
And how are you feeling like goals have evolved over the years in terms of what
you imagine this effort was going to be?
Delighted to, delighted to. The impetus in many ways for the founding of Excellencia
(01:14):
in Education officially in 2004 started in the late 90s.
I had the privilege of serving as executive director of the White House Initiative
on Educational Excellence for Hispanic Americans,
which was an eye-opening responsibility looking at all of federal government
and how our government engages Latino talent and serves the Latino population.
(01:40):
That in and of itself is powerful, but probably for me professionally and personally,
what was equally powerful is that I had the privilege of meeting my colleague,
our co-founder, our common friend, and Deborah Santiago.
She was a policy analyst in the Department of Education and was equally focused
(02:02):
on the, I'll just be blunt, wrongheadedness of how the discussions,
national discussions, regional discussions about Latinos took shape.
Because from those years, 90s into early 2000s, and that was the release of
the 2000 census, Without meaning to, more often than not the framing.
(02:25):
Implied as if it was Latinos that were the issue, as opposed to how Deborah
and I saw it, which is the structures of whether it be education,
K-12, whether it be college and university,
whether it be employment, it's that which really was, from our perspective, the intersection.
(02:46):
And framing it correctly, which
is the growth of the Latino community is a life force for this country.
It's an asset for our future workforce.
It's a potential in the hands of educators, in the hands of employers.
And yes, we brought a predisposition, and that was the Latino community is eager to participate.
(03:09):
We work really hard. We want to be contributing to this country,
and we can get into a lot of data and information to back that up.
It's not just a feeling. But it was that which really propelled us to say,
there's got to be a different way to look at this opportunity that we talk about,
(03:30):
which is the size of the Latino student population and the future of this country. Thank you.
And as we both have walked this path together, back in 2001,
I had just joined Lehman University.
And at that point, it was 52% Latino population.
So this was very real to me. Ricardo Fernandez was the president.
(03:53):
And I'm going to tease you because I'll never forget, you called me the white lady in the suit.
And I'm thinking, what are you talking about? I'm this Brooklyn kid who's the
child of an immigrant construction worker. I don't think of myself as a white
lady in a suit, but you made me realize, unless I'm willing to tell my story,
that's the way students would see me.
There you go. So it would wake up for me to say, I may not be Latino,
(04:18):
but there's some similarities in our upbringings, and there are some that aren't, and I need to learn.
So with that was this wonderful framing of, it is one thing to have a growing
Latino population. population, it's another thing to be intentional about serving.
(04:38):
And so let's, can we talk a little bit about that? Because now I'm at Holy Family, right?
I've been at Hispanic serving institutions since back in 2001.
We have a growing Latino population.
We're at 16% now. We've grown like from eight to 16 in three years.
And it has been intentional in terms of where we recruit our students who we
(05:00):
serve, who we believe we should serve based on our mission and values.
Let's tease this out a little bit about what is this notion of,
you know, you're Hispanic serving by a percentage versus what is the intentionality
about the care of this population and the education? Absolutely.
So since you, we know each other and we're talking our origin story,
(05:23):
the very first publication that Excelencia in Education released in 2004 is
Latino Student Success at Hispanic Serving Institutions.
And it was the very project that you're referencing when you were at Lehman College.
The distinction that we made and continue to make is that this method for some
(05:46):
institutions to reach an enrollment threshold of 25% full-time equivalent Latino
enrollment, you can reach that.
And it can be a fact so that you are eligible to apply for federal support.
Even when you reach it, the very point that you're asking about,
(06:09):
Anne, is not guaranteed because it is what goes on within the institution.
Institution. Starting from the point that a student applies,
the match that we hope every institution, when they extend admissions.
Makes in their own mind, the social contract, that if you're admitting a student,
(06:30):
you believe that they have what it takes, and that you will then,
as educators, support that student all the way through.
That premise has, over the 20 years that at Excellencia in Education has done
our work, taken shape along data.
Practice, and leadership. We have a very robust portfolio, which I hope you'll
(06:53):
ask me questions about and I can tell you more about.
But the point for right now in this conversation is what you do,
how you do it, and how, as leaders of an educational environment,
you continually audit the impact.
That's really what is in play when Excelencia says to someone someone like yourself,
(07:17):
who is intentional about the vision you have for your institution, what is it you do?
There are characteristics of Latino students that we share with others,
but they're very dominant among Latino students.
We are usually the first in our families to go to college, and that brings with
it informational needs that are very different from the children of college-educated parents.
(07:41):
We usually are low-income. We're not someone who can casually look at high tuition,
living costs, and say, I'll go, you know, whoever has my major.
So we make practical choices on what we can afford and sometimes the perception
of what we can afford because colleges and universities don't always demystify that.
And then this whole idea of how we navigate college, which is that usually we
(08:06):
do it not because we're not committed to our studies, because we're committed
to our lives and our families.
So we navigate oftentimes with dependence, whether they're our own children,
whether they're feeling a sense of responsibility for family.
In no way does any of that indicate a lack of interest or commitment to our studies.
(08:26):
Institutions that have been successful,
at looking at what is offered, why it's offered in the format that it's offered,
and how, at the point of admission of a student, we want that student to succeed.
Those are institutions that have begun to look carefully at the impact of what
(08:47):
they offer and the trajectory for all students who go through.
So we have now a seal of excelencia, And it is a certification system.
But the point for this bigger issue in America is that the discussion about
colleges and universities ready to take willing students into their campus community.
(09:14):
Support and propel them, that's what we mean by intentionally serving.
And going back to the beginning of this, simply enrolling, with all due respect,
it can be a revolving door.
I mean, you can enroll, but do they graduate? And do they graduate with the
strength of an educational experience that propels them into first jobs, fruitful lives?
(09:37):
That's really what it's about, serving. And for all these years that we've done
our work, we went from broad narrative to operational methods to content knowledge.
And all of that is what we offer presidents like yourself who are saying,
on my watch, we're going to do this.
Well, OK, so let's unpack that a little bit, because there's several levels
(10:00):
of that I want to talk about. So.
So disaggregating data is something, right? Estella Ben-Simon,
years ago, we started talking about the Equity Scorecard Project.
And how do you really know how you're doing unless you look at your data and
stop talking about averages, but look at the different populations you're serving, right?
Absolutely. I'm going to call out some stats and then a few things I want us to make out of that.
(10:25):
One is, what does this suggest about preparing our students for the workforce
and how they enter the workforce? force?
And then sort of what policy implications do they have after that?
Because one of the things we always talked about is, okay, we want them to do
undergraduate programs, but then we want them, what is going to be the pipeline
into graduate programs, into professional, right?
(10:47):
How are Latino as a new community in this country going to grow and become part
of the fabric and successful fabric of the country, right?
So when we look at stats, and this is why disaggregating really As of 2021.
The United States can say 38% of our adult population holds a bachelor's degree, 38%.
(11:10):
But when you break it down by ethnicity, the Asian population,
61% hold a bachelor's degree.
For white folks, it's 42%. For blacks, it's 28%.
And for Hispanics or Latinos, and we can go down a whole pipeline of what we
call the words we use, is 20%.
(11:32):
So as of 2021, a Latino population has the smallest percentage of those small
groups in terms of a bachelor's degree.
And we know in this country that.
Social mobility, and I'm very proud that Holy Family is ranked nationally as
a tier one for social mobility,
is a big piece of what we try and do when we welcome first generation families
(11:56):
and students to move them up through what we consider a successful life in the United States,
which is why many of our families came here to begin with.
So when we see that, what does that suggest to us in terms of what are we doing
in terms of preparing them for the workforce and what maybe she would be doing better?
(12:17):
And then, you know, on top of that, what does it say from a policy implication
from everything from the institutional level to the federal level?
You already gave data, and that's always good.
The relative performance of Latinos in terms of baccalaureate recipients is
important to keep in mind.
For those who want more data, we have had a longstanding project where we look
(12:41):
at Latino college completion by states, and we profile on our website the top
10 institutions, associate.
Baccalaureate, and graduate level, so that we can get to the question that you're
answering, which is, which are the institutions right now that are the magnet
for Latinos to enroll and graduate?
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What is it that those institutions do that others can learn from?
What are the internal policies and methods that the institutions or systems
or state offer that can be replicated?
That's one line of work. The other, because you talk about employers,
and I want to come at it slightly differently, because the employer part of
(13:27):
it and the trajectory of defining success,
I think, and when we kicked off, we talked broadly about how we started,
but I didn't overtly say, excelencia in education's mission is,
is accelerating Latino student success. That is our mission.
Defining that has always been within the institution, but in the last five years,
(13:49):
we have increasingly looked at this question.
Of what do the students say about their success for workforce or work-related,
and then what does the institution say?
And this is where I want to add yet another dimension of data.
Latinos have of the highest labor force participation with 66% of those 16 years
(14:12):
or older in the labor force, demonstrating that we will account for 91% of all the new workers.
So our animo, our enthusiasm to work hard and to participate,
it's demonstrated every which way.
At the same time, now we go back to where you are. The degree of preparation,
(14:32):
training, and education for
Latinos to enter the workforce, that's really where this discussion is.
And in that, the proposition that Excellencia has offered for a long time is
that we do it within colleges and universities.
But in the last five years, increasingly, we're looking and working with leaders
(14:55):
like yourself who are are civic-minded.
And see your institution as the nexus, but you also see the broader community.
You have your own ecosystem.
And entrepreneurial presidents for Latino student success,
which we're proud to call you, are people who look at the educational mission
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and also at the readiness of your institution to pay attention to the job market,
to look at disciplines within the institution, And to have faculty and staff
ready to help all your students be ready for the workforce.
In that respect, there is a framing, but there still isn't a talent flow from
(15:42):
all the places that are graduating into the jobs.
In fact, for that reason, we've maintained our publication, Finding Your Workforce,
which we just released last month.
And it takes that same sort of analysis, which are the institutions in the country
graduating the largest numbers of Latinos.
And quite frankly, we do that as much as any for employers, because employers
(16:06):
will often go to where they went to school, or they'll go to what they know.
And if yours is an institution that is increasing, let's say,
nursing, graduates in nursing, and for whatever reason, the hospitals and employers
of nurses in your region have usually looked elsewhere,
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how do you disrupt that with an asset-based report which says,
look at this institution and look at who's graduating?
The answer to the question is you have to intervene.
You have to take this data, and then you have to look at where are the points
to disrupt what is habit of mind
with positive information, and more importantly, with Latino graduates.
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Now, as it relates to policy, this is where it's exciting, but it's also unclear.
It's exciting because I think everybody is increasingly talking about workforce.
We're talking about talent and employment.
It's not clear because everybody is iterating all over the place.
And so technical training is increased, debates about whether or not you even
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should get a college degree is on the table.
If you're a first-generation collegegoer and your parents are already a little
skeptical about why you should go to college and then you've got this going,
that is the environment.
So from a policy perspective, Excellencia is very much focused on looking at
practices which move aspiring students to achieve the goals they wish.
(17:39):
And then from those goals statements into acquisition of a degree and.
And then who are the employers that choose to employ them?
And then what is the retention rate within the employer?
And that's where colleges and universities also have a role to play.
Because if you're sending your best and brightest, we hope that you'll stay
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in touch with your alumni and that they can tell you if the employers who have
been the place of their first jobs are places that really want them to thrive.
Because the objective here is not to just to bounce around, but to find a place to really contribute.
And being part of a community and an ecosystem really matters.
(18:23):
So a couple of things, part of this has been, I think, not only just cultural,
but the change in expectations in higher ed.
There was a time, maybe not quite when we started, but certainly before us,
when students were told at orientation, look to your left, look to your right,
at least one of of you is not going to be here.
And it's changed from you as a student better cut it or you're out to if you've
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been you university or college,
if you've admitted a student, you've made a commitment saying you believe that
student is a good fit for your university and should be able to successfully
complete a program and meet their own goals.
And that's sort of where the lens we we come from now?
How do we help our students if we've admitted them to succeed?
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And to your point, why not start out with a credential, a stackable certificate?
We know financial aid is really, really important and cost really,
really matters to this population.
So how do we make this indigestible bites so that someone who can't think of
going four years full-time all at once, we create a path for them.
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And many of us figured out how to do this without any intentional structures
in place for us to do it. We just figured it out.
We went part-time, we went full-time, we had babies, we went back,
we took turns with our spouses, whatever we had to do.
And we know that's what these families are doing as well.
So one of the things that I hear is, because we are very much a community anchor-based institution,
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most of our students come from the the area and stay in the area,
is we want your students because your students reflect a diversity of the communities
where they're going to serve.
That is something that you're right. It's that whole ecosystem and how do we
support them and encouraging them to attend in whatever way they can and keep
(20:15):
them in this pipeline so they can succeed further.
And definitely you are advancing success.
And you are supporting students who, more than anything else, continue to strive.
And that is what gives them entree to all that you do.
Unfortunately, despite the fact that we look at data and we have these discussions,
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we treat students that follow the path you just described as anomalies.
Over 80% of America's students follow that path. And yet they do it with some
level of criticism or baggage that they're doing it incorrectly.
They are the post-traditional students. And what has to be realized by all of
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us is that to treat them as anything less than those who will succeed,
that shortchanges everybody.
And that's what happens within colleges and universities, led by people like
yourself, who really are recognizing there are certain elements in higher education
that are not just traditions, but they're the source of strength.
(21:23):
But there's a lot about the delivery system that really is very pliant.
And it's time that we thought about that and made adaptations so that the students
continue to move through successfully. Which is something we're constantly questioning ourselves.
Two things. So one is, you know, as we know, we've had a conversation.
I bounced around from public institutions, secular, large, small.
(21:47):
I've been now second presidency at what we would consider smaller because we're
under 53600 Catholic based or Holy Family University here in Philly.
And I've been talking to my colleagues at the Association of Catholic Colleges
and Universities because more of us, as we know, whether intentional or not,
we're serving growing populations of Latino students.
(22:09):
So how do we get better at this and pull out our intentionality?
When from a sheer numbers, we may never come to the top 10 because our populations
are smaller to begin with. So it's more about percentages.
What percentage of our populations is Latino? What percentage of our Latino
students are being successful?
(22:30):
So part of what I consider my role now amongst my Catholic college colleagues
is, and because the truth is most of us, by the way, more of our students are
not Catholic than are necessarily Catholic, right? Because we serve all.
How do we do this in a way where we know many of our institutions actually have
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the frame to be more successful because we are smaller, because we are, by definition.
More focused on smaller communities, right? When we were at big schools before,
I'm learning communities.
Well, I just keep saying my whole university is one big learning community with 3,600 students.
If you're 36,000 students, you better figure out how to make learning communities, right? Right.
(23:14):
So any insight into as we approach this and maybe talking a little bit about
the lessons learned or where we can go to and others can go to who want to get
better about this, about how do we serve our Latino students?
Well, this is an ongoing discussion and not to be risque here, size matters.
(23:36):
I mean, size matters in the sense of the conditions under which as a student
you thrive or as a parent that you think your child will thrive.
And education is a human enterprise. So there are many students that will seek
out, if affordable and if known and if available, exactly the kind of learning
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environments that faith-based institutions offer. offer.
In the years that we've had the Presidents for Latino Student Success Network.
The number of private institutions and faith-based institutions has grown.
A characteristic they all have in common is a campus culture,
and that culture does speak to values.
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Whether it's overtly religious or not, there is a prevalence of purposeful living,
of a narrative of why the institution was created and that the enterprise of
education is part and parcel of becoming an adult,
of becoming a contributing person in the community.
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Those are themes and measures that.
People seek. Students will gravitate to them.
And the degree to which they align with the practical content knowledge that
propel a student to get a degree, that's a very powerful combination.
So it's not a matter of trying to present something to compete with.
(25:05):
It's unique. It's different.
And it's worthy of recognizing those differences. I mean, you're talking to
somebody who co-founded an organization that back 20 years ago,
there were lots of good things.
There still are lots of good things, but they weren't getting the job done.
And we decided to hang out our shingle and say, we're going to add to the portfolio. folio.
(25:25):
Faith-based institutions, smaller institutions,
have a very powerful role to play, and even more so when the institution is
mindful of its opportunity to expand the participation of Latinos.
So things that are harder to do in bigger places, but relatively easy when you're
(25:49):
smaller, scholar, just recognize that more often than not, it's not just Latino students,
but more often than not, Latino students, when the child is going to college,
the whole family is going to college.
And so if the whole family is going to college, then plan on it.
Don't be doling out two tickets for commencement.
Understand there's going to be multiple cars and everybody's going to be there.
(26:11):
And of course, that has all kinds of benefits to the institution because who
knows the people who who come for commencement they want.
So those are some of, but the overriding part of it is, for me,
who goes in and out of different gatherings of institutions,
it is the purposeful quality, the value-driven quality of faith-based institutions.
(26:35):
And you know, because we've had recent conversations, that the opportunity for
faith-based Catholic institutions in particular to really lean in.
Your colleague, president of St. Edward's University, has done exactly that.
She's the first, and they are the first to earn the seal of excelencia.
And when you unpack what they say about their data, their practice,
(27:00):
and their leadership, they go to their roots as it relates to their founding,
which has religious orientation.
They go to their longstanding history. Most faith-based institutions are longstanding. They're not new.
And they invoke what they've done as neighbors in a community and the role that
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they've played in the community.
All of those things are very compelling.
Now, couple that with practical information, which you already have.
I think that this is, it's not just a niche. I think it's an important contribution
to the potential for students.
Right. And that's what I keep saying to everyone, too. I mean,
it's not just it's a niche. It's who we are.
(27:41):
It's what we're supposed to be doing, right? It's sort of fundamental.
So thank you for that, man. You could be a great college president. You know that, right?
I get to be with presidents. That's my problem.
A lot, obviously. you gotta talk on president speak
you know what i would love to study to one of the things that
i always say especially you know because our
(28:02):
we all know our students are you know we think they all understand careers and
life paths and that somehow you know we knew we wanted to do when we were 18
and we just like followed this yellow brick road and you go no no life is much
more messy than that could you tell us a little bit about yourself or your thoughts
about sort of of, you know,
your sort of what lessons learned as you've grown up and been in different places
(28:27):
and lived in different, you know, kind of worlds.
Any lessons learned from this? Well, thank you, Anne, for that.
Part of a story I do tell is how in some way looking over my shoulder,
it makes it appear as if I always knew I'd be doing what I do, but that was not my path.
I, as an undergraduate student at the University of Texas at Austin,
(28:50):
first time in my family to go to college, only thing I really knew is I had to get a good job.
The only thing I knew I had to do was get a job afterwards.
That was it. And yet, and yet, I did think that the opportunity to decide what
to do was something to think seriously about. out.
(29:12):
And the whimsical thing is I was covering all my bases. So I'm going to get
a teaching certificate.
Lots of students think, okay, I can teach, right? I know school,
I can teach. Well, back then, back then, see how far we've come.
You had to take six hours of ethnic studies.
I mean, now we're fighting like crazy to take it out of the classroom.
But back then to get a teaching certificate, you had to take ethnic studies.
(29:36):
So I took my first Chicano studies class to get my teacher's certificate and it changed my life.
Because the content of the class gave me an explanation for power structures
in the state of Texas, for how I saw opportunity being distributed.
(29:57):
A field of study I knew nothing about, but it made sense. And from that point,
I changed my major, I did all those things.
Then when I had to decide what to do,
it was in many respects how to then put certain things into play.
So I had the opportunity, speaking with the graduate dean, to help build the
(30:20):
minority recruitment program at the University of Texas at Austin.
And for 15 years, that's what I did, making common cause with faculty all over the campus.
And it taught me so many things, things which ultimately,
when I came to Washington, DC for what I thought was going to be a two-year
aventura, and then found myself at the White House with this executive order
(30:43):
with 24 federal agencies, the architecture of a big university.
Eight different colleges, the provost's office, the president,
in my mind, is very much akin to 24 federal agencies, the White House.
So you do the same. The point is,
(31:04):
I'm lucky in that I found a cause when I was young,
and I've had the ability to apply useful things in every environment I've ever
been in with the mindset that we can change the world.
I mean, it might just get a little Pollyanna here, but I think it's our responsibility.
(31:29):
If we think it can be better, then get about it. What are you going to do?
And then how do you do it in allyship with people who share the same perspective?
Even if we're not exactly clear of the future vision, we know it can be better.
Today, more than ever, more than ever, we have have to believe that.
(31:54):
And the ability to, yes, pay my bills and make sure that I'm responsible and I do my job per se,
but do it against the backdrop of we're all part of a broader community when
we see each other that way.
And then we decide for ourselves what matters.
(32:18):
What will will we work on together?
And that's how you and I have known each other all these years. That's the privilege.
And the privilege and the recognition of the responsibility and also the value
of education. Think of what you just said. It was a class.
That you took, that you weren't even sure what it was going to be about, right?
And that's what, so what I usually tell my freshmen, right, when they're going
(32:40):
to look at facing gen ed, and what is gen ed?
And they say, why do I have to take this class? And this is going to be a boring
class. Why do I need this?
Well, it's because you just never know. You never know what's going to spark your interest.
And even if it's boring, that's what it means to be an educated person.
You're going to know a lot about a lot of different things.
Some of it's going to to be interesting to you and some of it isn't.
(33:02):
But to your point, if you hadn't taken that class, we would have known.
That's the whole point. The only thing I would add, because my own daughter
is navigating her path and trying to figure it out.
She's doing well, thank you. But the other thing is that there is a lot of pressure
for everyone and I've got to make the right choice.
(33:24):
So if we're talking students, I've got to make the right... Yes,
you do have to make the right choice for today.
And whatever it is that you do for today, you got to take care of business,
you have to make sure you maintain, you fulfill, and then you keep your eye on the future.
And the future, to the very point that we're both saying is,
there are things about it you can predict pretty accurately,
(33:45):
and there's a lot that we don't know yet.
And the resilience to be be ready for it.
If there is a dynamic that I do think we all want to pass on,
it's not just confidence like I can handle anything.
Yeah, but in your soul, do you really feel that way?
You feel that way because you've stayed curious, you've stayed engaged,
(34:08):
and you've stayed optimistic.
And the degree to which in education, this kind of talk isn't like,
oh, what is she talking about you know would that fit into every sector maybe
not it fits into education because in education we see each other and we with
content knowledge for sure disciplinary focus for sure.
(34:29):
And success. And success is the whole person, not just the grades and not just
the degree, it's the whole person.
And that's where we have a real commitment to that, right? As faith-based institutions.
I mean, it always is about, and I know what it's like, because when you're a secular institution,
sometimes even the language you use is a little more, you know,
(34:51):
limited in different ways, but the fact that we care about the whole person
and it's inside, outside the classroom, body, mind, spirit.
So touche. And the hope is so important right now, because I really do believe,
I mean, we have to, we have to.
And how lucky are we that we got to spend our lives.
You know, they always say, if you're passionate, my kids will say, mind, we work so hard.
(35:13):
And it's like, but remember what they say, if you really care about what you
do, you're not working, because you're serving.
And I think that's what we've both been doing all along. So thank you.
Thank you. Thank you. Wonderful conversation.
And we will have many more of these, we know.
Thank you, Anne. Thank you. And congratulations again on your leadership role
(35:34):
at this institution and the benefit of your personality and style on the community
that you continue to build.
Thank you. To learn more about Holy Family University, please visit holyfamily.edu.
Onward and Upward Together in Faith and Family, I'm Ann Prisco and thank you for listening.
(35:55):
Music.
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