August 22, 2022 • 41 mins
Join Dr. Prisco’s very personal chat with Chelsea Sanders, @r29unbothered and @r29somos Vice President of multicultural brand strategy and development. Chelsea is also host of Unbothered’s podcast “GO OFF, SIS”. Chelsea speaks about the importance of community, advocating for yourself and don’t miss what advice Chelsea would give her college aged self!
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Episode Transcript
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(00:05):
Hi,
I'm dr anne Christo president of Holy Family University.
You're listening to ask and answer in this episode,
I'm so excited to welcome Chelsea Sanders.
Chelsea is vice president of multicultural brand Strategy and Development at refinery 20 nine's Unbothered.
And Somos Chelsea is also host oven bothers podcast go off sis Chelsea,
(00:31):
thank you so much for joining me.
It's such a treat to have someone that I know personally and now professionally we get to chat about your journey and your work and you know,
I'm so fascinated and so in all of you and all you have accomplished,
you want to tell folks how we know each other?
Yes,
well,
I mean that was a fantastic introduction.
(00:53):
Thank you.
And I'm like,
I'm blushing,
I told you before we got on here,
I just want to make you all proud because in a lot of ways you have been a proxy and a huge figure in my life was parental units because as you know,
but I'll share with the folks listening,
I am really good friends with your oldest son,
Zak,
we met in Los Angeles because one of my best friends from high school was one of his best friends in college.
(01:21):
So after he finished college and moved back to L.
A.
You know,
L.
A.
Can be a little isolating a little weird to get used to.
And so my friend hooked us up as friends and we actually ended up being better friends than any one of us put together were also again in a very similar life stages and you know,
met when we were 22 now at my big age of 33 again have,
(01:46):
that has been,
I think one of my most sustaining friendships,
so shout out to Zach who is amazing And again is also a connector.
And so whenever I would go over to see him,
I would see all and it would be randomly,
you know,
like nine or 10 at night,
we'd just be like hanging out in his area and you know,
you and your husband would walk over say hey and it got to a point where I was more excited to see you both and rosie of course,
(02:15):
of course,
who's my girl over your dog,
But also like my spirit animal.
We cultivated a relationship I think personally and then again have been embedded sort of in your life and I've watched you grow in your journey as a president and I'm just intensely proud of you and intensely humbled to even be here today.
(02:35):
So thank you for having me and and it goes both ways.
Thanks Chelsea.
And I do remember those days,
remember you show up at 10:00 PM,
like Chelsea inside voice please.
I don't think you ever saw me in anything but my pajamas for the first year.
It was all good morning.
I do not have an inside voice.
(02:56):
So we learned that we were good were good.
Anyway,
thank you for right.
We've been on both coasts together.
So we agree with sort of like coastal people either were in L.
A.
Or in Manhattan now Philly,
which is counselors East coast,
that's for sure.
Before we start talking about your journey,
Tell me what you think because I haven't had a chance to really process what thank you for coming to the inauguration.
(03:18):
What do you think?
What do you think the holy family?
Because that was the first time you were on our campus.
Right?
Yes,
it was.
And again,
thank you for having me when sort of Zach like extended the invitation was like,
my mom would love for you to be there.
I was like me,
okay.
And I think like I was so excited to again like see everything that you do that we talk about that we like again sit in your kitchen and sort of like muse about for hours on end to see that like live and in person and to see your passion like come together in this way with this school.
(03:53):
And the passion that they have for you as well was again,
not only humbling but really energizing.
You know,
I came to Philly again not knowing what to expect at all truly because you know,
I had this sort of this concept of,
okay,
it's gonna be an inauguration.
You know,
there will be sort of procedures and everything will feel formal,
(04:13):
but it felt really,
really intimate.
And I think the biggest thing that I was struck by was the personality and the personal notes that um were threaded throughout,
right.
Whether it was at your official inauguration,
the things that people were saying about you,
which I know to be true again personally,
(04:33):
but we're sort of on a bigger,
wider stage and everyone just had that same threat of appreciation for you,
for what you do and for what you stand for I think was really amazing to see and to be able to celebrate that in person with you and with your family and with the entire holy family family was a moment that again,
I was really,
(04:54):
really humbled to be a part of.
And I think the other piece that I had mentioned to jen your producer was I was really struck by the level of community.
Again,
when it came to people of color.
Again,
going to a school,
a smaller school,
I didn't know what to expect.
I went to a small school by all and large.
It was considered one of the best schools in the country,
(05:15):
but its diversity and its inclusivity left a lot to be desired.
And I think that left a lasting impression on me in terms of small schools and what to expect in terms of the way that they service people and women of color.
But I was struck with how many people of color there were,
how many people of color that were there and showed up for you how many women of color had like huge smiles on their faces when they saw you the little video of the students who like pulled together that sort of like welcome and welcome president.
(05:47):
Yeah,
it was,
there were like volleyball players and like tech people and like nursing students.
Like it was just a really,
really wonderful like mix of students and I saw more faces of color than I really expected to be quite honest to.
Again,
people like came up to me and were like,
oh my God,
it's great to see you here.
Like I like love,
(06:08):
like what I like truly someone who,
what I'm bothered was that I was like,
oh my God,
like here this like small college in philadelphia like I don't know,
it's just really amazing group.
I know like I'm telling you,
I have been again,
that's my alma mater and that has not happened.
That is saying something that's not a value assessment,
(06:31):
it's more,
again,
just more a realization not to see these communities be created and fostered and supported it can anywhere and it takes intention.
And I think that has been clear again since you know,
you've been in this role for a little bit and this was sort of the official inauguration,
your imprint and your impact has already been felt and I know that because I know who you are and I know how you move and so I was just really struck by that.
(06:57):
And so I was excited to be there and be able to support you and really just get a chance to see more of it so we can do more of it.
Yeah,
well thank you.
I know you and I have lots of conversations about big school small schools,
elite schools,
open admissions schools,
schools that are H.
B.
C.
U.
S.
And schools that are minority serving.
(07:18):
And you know,
my commitment has always been to urban minority serving institutions.
And so in many ways as a white woman,
sometimes I am breaking that ceiling and hopefully for all women,
right?
And even for men that are first generation as a child of an immigrant,
I always carry that with me too.
So there's things that resonated me that are similar to other ethnicities experience as a first gen kid just because that's different when your parent doesn't speak english,
(07:48):
there's a world of difference that you bring that has nothing to do with your socioeconomic status that all gets wrapped up.
So thank you because I do hope that's what we all represent for each other.
Right?
The possibility because it is true when you see me at the kitchen table,
I don't look like a traditional what one thinks of as a college president,
whatever that is.
(08:09):
But hopefully in this day and age it's evolving part of what you know,
we live in in this world and I love education and that's my life.
And I always say at the end of the day,
we're in education folks,
how luck could we be?
This is what we get to pay attention to when you think about your journey.
And one of the things there's so much I'd love to talk to you about one is you know that trying period in the twenties because it really struck me that as young people,
(08:36):
most of you are on this 4th March where you go through,
you go through school,
you go through college,
you're told what to do,
You go through all,
you check the boxes,
you do all the activities and then all of a sudden you're 22 you graduate and you're like,
wow Now what?
So maybe talk to us a little bit about so impressive,
but I know you didn't start there at 23 so maybe you know,
(08:59):
for an inspiration for all those folks out there still,
we all are always figuring it out,
right?
I was still trying to figure it out.
So share a little bit with us.
Yeah,
no,
and it's so funny because looking maybe back at my career can feel like impressive and like how do you do it?
But in my mind I'm like,
oh I'm not even there yet like at all.
(09:21):
And so I think to your point,
like I'm still very much figuring it out and 11,
12 years ago I had no idea.
You know,
I graduated from Yale again,
an elite institution that had a lot of access and offered a lot of opportunities,
but ones that didn't feel right for me and didn't feel right for my spirit.
(09:43):
I actually like wouldn't classify myself as an ambitious person,
although Zach probably would disagree.
Um but I think I was looking for something that I could really dig into and I wasn't really sure how to get there,
I wasn't really sure how to be in those rooms or how to even advocate for myself.
I think that's probably the biggest thing that I've learned over the past decade that I didn't have when I was 22 is understanding how to advocate for myself and understanding when to put my hand up and when to say,
(10:14):
no it's me not the person next to me,
not the person across from me it's me and at 22 I don't think I had those skills and that experience yet to understand that I deserved to be in those rooms and in bigger rooms and so at 22 post graduation,
you know,
they said I moved back to L.
A.
Which is where I'm from and was a little bit lost.
(10:35):
I wasn't sure what I wanted to do.
You know,
I wanted always to be in storytelling,
I was an english major in african american studies major.
So those things have always been my passion and my calling,
but I wasn't sure how to apply them and so I sort of went through a couple of different phases,
I was doing personal talent pr which was glorified babysitting and that didn't work and I like quit that after like five months,
(11:01):
literally and I'm not a quitter,
so if it,
if I quit like that it was that bad and then I think for me,
I was sort of like in an in between stage,
because again,
I have high expectations for myself,
but I didn't know how to obtain them or how to again advocate for myself in the right way.
And so what I decided to do,
(11:22):
which again may work for some may not work for others was to change my surroundings because I decided if I'm doing the same thing every day,
I'm gonna get the same results,
so I need to switch something up,
you know,
in february of 2012,
when I was about 23 I decided I'm just gonna move to new york,
I don't have a job or an apartment,
I don't have it figured out,
I have no idea what I'm doing,
(11:43):
but I'm gonna move to new york and we'll see again,
I may be back in five months,
I may be back in five years,
I may never be back,
but I will kick myself if I don't try if I don't just try and I think for me that gave me the kick start that I needed to understand that I was the one in charge of my life and no one else was going to fix it for me,
(12:05):
no one else was going to change it unless I made the steps to change it myself and to break out of patterns that weren't working for me and to establish new ones.
And so I think that moved to new york at 23 was a really big turning point for me to understand how to realize that the doors that I wanted open,
like I was already standing in front of,
I just needed to walk through And that I think was a huge sort of just like mind shift for me.
(12:31):
And so again,
20 is very much our time for experimentation.
I encourage that hugely for young people,
you gotta know what you want and more importantly,
you got to know what you don't want and what doesn't work for you.
So you can cross that off the list and never have to go back to it again,
it will make your day so much easier if you can prioritize that list of this is going to serve me and this isn't,
(12:52):
it may work for someone else.
It doesn't work for me and vice versa.
And so when I got to new york,
I was really open to those possibilities to exploring things to experimenting.
And so I got into writing,
I got into brand pr and marketing and communications and that's where I really sat for about 10 years until I was just about 30 31 I was in brand,
(13:15):
I was in communications.
I was in the business of storytelling,
which was beautiful because I got to see how businesses work.
I got to see how brands were built and I got to see the people behind them and that was what I was interested in.
That was what I was really,
really rooted in understanding.
And it took me a while to understand that.
Oh,
that's what I like,
I like breaking down a story into its parts,
(13:37):
into its subjects,
into its objects and really understanding the motivations behind them.
And so it took me taking a leap of faith on myself and understanding that I had the tools that I've learned both from my family,
from my schooling,
from my environment and the rest I've learned.
That's the only way that I'm gonna be able to do it just learning.
(13:59):
Because everyone at this point,
you me everyone in between.
We're all taking educated guesses and that's what I think.
Education adults don't tell the kids,
okay,
I won't tell you that you cross the line,
you're on the adult side,
be careful,
but that's true and I think that's your point about why education is so powerful,
(14:23):
right?
Because they can arm you with the ability and the skill set to make those decisions in times when you don't know,
and you can say I can fall back on my education,
I can fall back on the mentorship or again the network of folks who have cultivated,
who can help guide me,
but who can also say like you've got this like you are your own best advocate in these situations and I think for people in their twenties who are trying to look for some direction,
(14:49):
like that's what I would say to them,
you are your own best advocate and no one can tell you how to live your life better than you can.
And that is really hard because I'm sure I know I can think back and some of the things that were said to me or some of the sort of decisions that I made I made early on in my career because I didn't have confidence and I didn't feel like I had that sense of agency where you know,
(15:12):
you think,
why didn't I speak up?
Why didn't I la la la la Well,
because I just didn't have felt like I could write and you go and and so part of that,
I think you have to go through it to learn it right?
But as you said,
learn from it,
like what's okay?
So what am I learning from all this?
We also appreciated since we were back on the east Coast and you moved to the Upper West side.
(15:36):
So we got to see you again on the upper west side.
So tell me why this venue Right?
It's such a you having your providing such a powerful voice to a community you care about and you relate to and that's important.
So how did you come to that?
Like how'd you get?
Because you know we're all like,
wow,
(15:56):
what's Chelsea doing now?
So how did you come to it and why?
Like why do you because I can figure it out but tell us like why why this of all the things you could be doing?
Yeah,
again,
I think at this point in my life I want to do things that are additive to the world.
They actually must be additive otherwise why am I doing them again when I talk about prioritization?
(16:20):
They have to give something.
I come from a mindset cultivated by my father of abundance and that when you put your hand out to give,
that's when you receive and for me again for a long time,
I was really invested in storytelling.
I was doing pr I was doing branded communications,
I was telling stories,
(16:41):
I wasn't really creating them,
I wasn't owning them.
I was telling someone else's story and I was sitting backstage in the wings mouthing the words to people's speeches that I had written and really not necessarily connecting with them and not connecting with the purpose that I had put into those words because they weren't mine And they weren't mine to give in those moments.
(17:06):
And so about five years ago I went to refinery 29,
I was the like head of communications their and essentially I was doing that.
I was in house though before I've been in agencies,
so I was a step removed this time I was in house being able to see these stories like the sausage being made of how we built video series or How we decided to hire these folks or build content or the stories that we created or the conversations that we had.
(17:33):
I was there on the ground floor about six months into my tenure in the communication side.
Two of the editors at refinery came to me,
two black girls and 529,
about five years ago I have no problem saying was incredibly white,
82% white.
I could count and name the number of people of color and the number of black women was even smaller.
(17:57):
So I knew these ladies very intimately,
you know you you have those looks across the room in a meeting when you're like or you have those times at the water cooler when you're like interesting and they came to me and said,
we want to create a community for us by us,
We don't know what you want to call it,
we don't know where we want it to be,
we don't know what it looks like,
can you help us?
(18:18):
And I was like not me,
I just like write the speeches and they're like no Chelsea,
you you are the one who has the executive's ear,
they respect you,
they know you,
you take such care with what you do with refinery and we know that you care about this.
And so in that situation I have people who are advocating for me before I even was advocating for myself at that time and so I worked with them to create this community and you know,
(18:47):
ultimately after lots of work and branding and messaging,
building,
you know,
all the things that I learned from my 10 years in branding and in storytelling and in communications and in sales and executive leadership decided,
hey,
like this is what it should be,
it should be social first,
it should be called and bothered because in order to be a black woman in this world,
sometimes you just have to be unbothered still to this day,
(19:10):
I believe that and we should do it now,
regardless of what the executive team says,
let's create it.
And so we did,
they liked it,
which was great and shout out to the executive team for believing in that.
But the first year and a half that we were live,
we didn't have any revenue tied to it,
no partners,
nothing.
It was purely organic and we got 200,000 followers on instagram,
(19:33):
purely just on vibes.
After a while,
I was like,
I was still in my communications position,
but I was doing more work within bothered.
I was being pulled in more to those conversations and the person who was leading it at the time,
Danielle cadet who is again,
still to this day,
one of my greatest friends said,
hey,
your storyteller,
(19:53):
I want you to produce our podcast,
go off this.
So again,
a situation where someone else is advocating for me before I was even ready to advocate for myself and she said,
not only do I want you to produce this,
I want you to be on it.
And I said,
all right,
sure Lord knows I can talk all day.
So I started producing that podcast and it ended up,
(20:16):
you know,
winning the award for best podcast of the year in 2020 and has like gotten huge accolades and all the things which is great,
but I,
the feedback that I got from the community and from the people who were listening to it and who are telling me that they felt seen because we were having conversations around mental health,
around you know,
tropes around being the strong black woman,
around,
(20:36):
going to therapy,
around,
you know,
dealing with the entertainment and the world of beauty and the standards that we put upon black women and the sweat equity that we put into our work,
but don't get back on a corporate level,
sometimes was more impactful than anything.
And then two years ago that same Danielle came to me and said,
I'm moving on and you need to lead this brand And I said no three times I said no Danielle,
(21:05):
like I do not have the experience,
I have never written an article or for finery,
I'm not a social girl,
I don't know how to run a brand.
And she said Chelsea,
this is yours,
take it.
And I said no,
I don't think so.
I don't know how to run a team.
I can't do all this.
And she said Chelsea,
this is yours,
(21:25):
take it.
And after three times and like months of conversation,
I finally was like,
all right,
the worst thing I can do is fail.
But at least I'm trying in the same way that I moved to new york and that was about two years ago and I can say like quite emphatically that that has changed my life and I think again that is all power to the other black woman who are advocates for me when I wasn't an advocate for myself.
(21:53):
And that again,
when I say being of service or pushing forward a mindset of abundance and opening your hand to give,
that's when you receive it's because that has been the same energy afforded to me and it is my privilege and honor to pass that along to the community that I represent the community that I lied and the brand that I steer.
(22:15):
And so it's a it's a privilege.
I don't take lightly.
I understand it is the responsibility,
No one on my team has to do what they have to do,
they choose to,
I tell them that every day because when the computer goes down and we're done for the day,
these aren't things that we close,
these are things that I talked about in my group chat with my sister.
(22:36):
I talked about with you across the dinner table,
I talk about and text with Zach on a weekly basis.
I don't stop being a black woman when the day ends and that is really a hugely important to me.
And it's hugely important that I have those conversations in the same voice and the same peer to peer language that I do with my sister.
So when I'm figuring out social captions or trying to understand how to have a conversation again about mental health and wellness,
(23:02):
I'm thinking how cannon bothered me,
the home girl in your head,
not the brand that's talking at you,
but the sister that's talking with you.
And I think it's hugely important when it comes to what we've cultivated as a community and why we have such an engaged and successful community because it comes from a place of knowing that we are all in this together.
(23:23):
And when one of us wins,
we all win.
And when one of us stumbles,
we gotta like lock arms and pick ourselves up because it's not anyone else.
So two things from that that I can think up,
right?
So two things one is even after the success,
you said no two times,
it took a third time.
So a little bit of a lesson from them.
(23:44):
So I mean if you had to do it again,
would you should you have said yes to first?
Like what you learn from that,
right?
I mean because you're,
you know,
you appear so comfortable and confident.
So it doesn't seem like why do you say no several times to it?
And do you think just the effect of Covid and you know,
this whole pandemic has,
how has that impacted the work that you're doing?
(24:07):
I think for the first one again,
yes,
I am hugely confident.
And again,
I think that's because in my family and in my life,
bravery has been loved down my spine because it's had to be I also though I am a human being and that impostor syndrome is real.
(24:28):
Like it just is and we all live with it at a certain level,
right?
No matter what again,
Like even in my role and with all the success that I know I theoretically had,
like I still am like,
like who's letting me be here?
Who's letting me talk here?
Like when I have meetings with my Ceo I'm like,
you're really listening to me.
(24:48):
I like those are sometimes the things that like,
I really have to deal with.
And again,
that's at any level,
you know,
whether you're 21 just graduating or again like,
you know the ceo of a brand or whatever,
like I think that's something that again as women and as a woman of color like I very much contend with.
(25:10):
I think it's also because for me I was always in the background but like I knew I could be in the front and so it wasn't a question of oh my God,
what if I fail?
I had to realize it was a question of what if I succeed,
like what if I actually like get all the things that I've been working towards and dreaming about and like journaling about what then And I think it was a situation of now Chelsea like you gotta dream bigger dreams and I think sometimes it can be scary right if if that's what you've been like holding on to like if I just get my shot and data and then the shot comes and you're like oh what's the next one exactly,
(25:58):
and that can be daunting in a way right?
And so I think I had to contend with that of like oh you're kind of afraid of success Chelsea like and there's no reason to be but that doesn't change the fact that you kind of are,
it doesn't make sense,
like success is amazing and that's great and I've done a lot of the things that are on my list and that means I've written down 20 more but I think that was something that I really had to like step back and be like oh this is what you're afraid of and this is what you have to work through.
(26:31):
And I think,
you know,
for me it was a lot of understanding that I deserve success and that I deserve what I've worked so hard for that.
I can say thank you and mean it and I can accept the favor that the universe has brought me.
(26:52):
And I think that was something that I really had to work through,
especially again to your point about your second question at a time when a lot of people were going without and a lot of people were struggling.
So for me to be promoted and you know,
have the shiny new role in in a time of like great unease and economic unease when there was,
(27:13):
you know,
not only the resignation but layoffs and you know,
across the board,
across the country,
in this world,
it was hard for me to celebrate myself.
It's still,
it's hard for me to celebrate myself.
I'm working on that to be honest.
But I think that was,
that was hard.
But I think the other thing that I also learned again is that in the pandemic,
(27:34):
I think there was a lot,
again,
a real focus on black and brown folks and during the pandemic,
I also took over our latin channel called Somos again,
where brown folks and businesses were some of the hardest hit by the pandemic economically and you know,
healthcare wise,
when you think about the actual mortality rates and numbers and so again,
(27:54):
that responsibility doubled to be able to appropriately service the community and appropriately disseminate information because there was a lot of misinformation and understanding the power that we had as a journalistic brand,
right?
And as a media company to share that information platform,
the right conversations in a way that felt productive and additive.
(28:15):
I think the other thing,
you know,
I like to say that 2020 is the year that you know,
we think black people were invented because you know,
it was a pandemic compounded with immense racial violence.
It was debilitating on a personal level of course,
um I can't even the words,
there are no words,
but one it also was a tidal wave because this is not the first nor the last and it's continued.
(28:40):
And so I like to have that microscope or spotlight on.
It was really ironic in a lot of ways and I think for the black community they had to contend with this immense tidal wave of emotion,
but also the spotlight and being told how to perceive it and how to receive it and how to,
you know,
accept the guilt that people were putting on you of,
(29:01):
you know,
I had my friends like texting me like I'm so sorry,
you know,
for everything I've ever done over the past 20 years,
like,
you know,
my boss is telling me,
oh my gosh,
that time I touched your hair,
I'm so sorry,
I'm like I cannot take this on personally,
I cannot take on your you know,
whatever,
whatever you're going through personally,
(29:23):
that is not the burden that black and brown people carry to educate you all or to help you through your crisis.
So I think on a personal level it was really tough,
but also on a professional level in 2020 I was one of two black executives at my company full stop.
So having to to contend with that in a professional way.
And still again,
service of community disseminate information.
(29:45):
Be professional in meetings,
turn my camera on and assume it was impossible.
And so it was very much like this cognitive dissonance of personalities and personas and I think what I learned is that I I can't divorce again my personal from the professional.
It's what makes me great.
(30:06):
It's also what makes me empathetic.
It's also understanding,
hey team,
we're gonna take a break,
I don't care what's going on.
We are taking this week off and you guys are getting for extra comp days because that's the end of the sentence just because and the world will keep spinning will miss some things I will talk to whoever I need to talk to about that you come to me if you get any pushback on that,
(30:33):
but we're turning off and so I think it wasn't only a professional lesson for me of how to be able to marry those two,
but one when you think about sort of the health of your team and the people who you work for and work with and who are on the front lines with you,
you have to nurture them in the same way,
you nurture your audience,
in the same way you nurture your community.
(30:54):
And I think that was the biggest lesson for me in terms of how we waited through this and are continuing to wait through it.
It's so elegantly stated Chelsea in terms of the balance you will we all faced,
but especially the black and brown communities face during this covid,
because you're right,
it was all of these big disparate things all happening at the same time and the growth that you're having,
(31:17):
right.
One of the things you just said,
I know how to lead a team,
it certainly sounds like you've learned a lot about management and leadership.
Oh yes.
Right.
For you to be able to confidently tell your team and take a position like that took a lot for you in terms of recognizing and and billing willingness step up for them.
(31:39):
That's important,
those important steps.
So I have a feeling we're probably gonna go soon.
But you know,
let me ask you the proverbial,
you know,
what would you tell your 22 year old self just graduating from college now?
Oh wow,
okay.
I know it's hard.
I know and you know,
we talked about this on our like podcast,
Go office,
(31:59):
which now we're in like the fifth season and so we've talked about a lot and I hosted with my other editors,
so they're like on my team,
but I'm also like,
when I come into that podcast room,
I'm not their boss,
like I'm like their peer who's also working through things,
and I say at the top of every episode,
like,
this is a safe space for us to go off.
(32:20):
So I'm not again your boss,
nothing that you say here,
whether you're like,
I'm gonna quit tomorrow,
or like,
you know,
I,
like,
didn't do this,
like,
I'm not going to punish you or in any way,
like,
take that with me back into professional Chelsea,
right,
which I think is really important.
So I think that some of the things that we talk about are some of the things that I would tell myself if I was 22 again or my 22 year old self is one,
(32:45):
cultivate safe spaces,
places where you feel like you can be you without harm without question,
without judgment.
That sounds easy.
I know it's not give yourself time to cultivate that safety with people that make you feel safe.
Not everyone is going to come with you on that journey and that's okay,
(33:05):
but finding the right people to support you and who you can support and you can genuinely cheer for.
There's nothing better than that to be able to be like,
you did that sis and for someone to turn around and tell you that too.
Like that's the best feeling in the world and I think I have been immeasurably blessed to be able to have cultivated that safe space and have people who have added me to their safe space.
(33:32):
And so I think that's certainly number one and number two give yourself Grace Chelsea.
And I think a lot of people today are really,
really hard on themselves and I think that's really hard to forgive yourself again for making choices that maybe didn't work out or for choosing people or things or jobs that didn't serve you.
(33:57):
And I think you have to give yourself grace one to make those mistakes and then as you sit in to learn from them because everything that you do right wrong or in between is a lesson and your job,
your only responsibility is to learn that lesson.
It is not to do everything right.
It is not to determine who's the best and what is the absolute a plus work.
(34:22):
You know,
it's it's just learning from it and learning from those experiences and so I think again much easier said than done,
but recognizing that you are human and that you are allowed to make mistakes,
you should make mistakes sometimes the most beautiful things comes from the mistakes that you never thought possible or plausible and giving yourself the grace and the space to make them is really the best if you can give to yourself you're never ever I've never regretted it trying something and failing.
(34:55):
I have regretted not trying and kicking myself for it too.
And you have to be able to let some things go and open up that space for you to have grace and for you to say okay we're here though.
I woke up this morning,
we get to do it again,
like figure it out.
(35:16):
So so a couple of things.
One is what I think you building your community is what I talk about a lot which is relationships because we are always saying you need mentors,
you need networks,
you know we use all of these like professional terms at the end of the day is about being your relationship and having relationships which hopefully helps you find.
So some of those relationships bring you safe space so that's part of it.
(35:40):
And then wise none once said to me don't get ahead of the grace and what she was because I was in the middle of freaked out.
It was when we were moving from L.
A.
To I was moving to Felician University in New Jersey and that she said to me don't get ahead of the grace.
In other words God's Grace is gonna be there for you when you need it.
So just kind of take one step at a time and and it's a way of saying kind of what you're saying you're gonna be able to do it when you need to,
(36:06):
it'll be there.
Just give yourself the grace.
It'll have literally like what is for you is for you and like no one can take that away.
And I think again young people today we have so many not weak,
they not young have so many opportunities and I think it can feel overwhelming or like I don't know what you know and I don't know which path and it's like you can take a beat like you can step back,
(36:32):
you can step forward but know that no one thing is going to turn you off your path.
It may actually direct you towards it.
And that's cool too.
And being again like flexible in that.
And understanding that like the path isn't linear.
Also like anyone who tells you that their path has been easy or linear is not telling you the truth,
like they just aren't.
(36:53):
And yeah,
we need to be more comfortable with like talking about those detours and talking about the ways those forks in the path that we just like learn from and kept moving on because they think that also will help to just help us be more transparent in the ways that we got there and not,
you know,
as the kids are saying like keep that knowledge and to really come again from a mindset of abundance because there's room for us all and we needed and each of us is needed,
(37:22):
especially now we need everybody to step up.
We all need to be there for each other.
It's interesting that you use the term safe space because we started the students asked if they could start a black student union for black students and allies this year and they did a great job.
And and that's exactly one of the things they talk about is,
(37:44):
you know,
generally I like to think that I do think they feel safe.
It is written large on our campus and our campus community,
but the idea that they needed a space where it could just be,
they could just be together was important.
And I understood that,
right?
And so it's for every group,
It's for every group.
But you know,
(38:04):
we could have a whole nother conversation about,
I'm curious because this would be another one.
How do you feel calm comfortable representing the latino population?
Right.
Because we talked about that.
I mean I'm like a president to establish Excellency in Ed,
which is all about advancing latin student success.
Right?
And I'm an italian american.
So why do I care?
(38:25):
Because I care I want to advance everyone.
I want to move everyone should have a chance at education.
Right?
So I love that we can see ourselves crossing those boundaries and still speak to each other absolutely anything like you said,
like I knew again when it when I didn't have someone who was advocating for me how lonely and isolating that was and to have someone who does advocate for you and is an ally in that is amazing.
(38:52):
And then to your point,
you know,
with understanding that the Black Student Union was something that needed to happen,
even though you weren't necessarily a part of it or piloting it is the same way I operates almost I get out of the way that's the best way I can be a leader in that space,
is to move the blockages so that the people who need to speak and need to hold the MIc have it.
(39:13):
So my Deputy director is Puerto Rican,
my social coordinator is Colombian,
my other social coordinator and social editor is also latin X and based in Orlando,
what I've done is really cultivate a space for them to feel safe and that I can protect it.
That is my only job is not to be a part of it.
It is not to be the leader of it,
(39:34):
it is not to have the mic the whole time.
It's actually to be quiet and let them do what they need to do.
And I think in a lot of ways that's really important and I think sometimes allies get nervous about speaking for a community or like how do I,
you know,
reach this community?
It's quite simple.
You give them the mic and then the platform and you make sure their voices are hurt.
(39:56):
That's it,
that's really it.
And you listen to what they're saying when they tell you and they come to you and hopefully what you've cultivated is a space where they can come to you and then can communicate with you.
That is your responsibility as an ally and that is my responsibility.
Just almost kudos to you Chelsea.
I'm just so so proud of you and I'm glad we had this time together and congratulations on all of your successes and I know we will continue to see more of them.
(40:23):
Thank you,
I appreciate you,
you're amazing and I'm just really excited and proud to be here and be able to share in this energy with you.
So thank you so much for having me so to learn more about Chelsea and um bothered.
Please visit refinery 29 dot com and on instagram at our 29 unbothered and at our to nine so most and check out Chelsea's podcast go off sis I love that available anywhere you listen to your podcast and to learn more about Holy family university please visit holy family dot E.
(41:00):
D.
U.
Hi,
I'm dr anne Christo president of Holy Family University.
You're listening to ask and answer in this episode,
I'm so excited to welcome Chelsea Sanders.
Chelsea is vice president of multicultural brand Strategy and Development at refinery 20 nine's Unbothered.
And Somos Chelsea is also host oven bothers podcast go off sis Chelsea,
(00:31):
thank you so much for joining me.
It's such a treat to have someone that I know personally and now professionally we get to chat about your journey and your work and you know,
I'm so fascinated and so in all of you and all you have accomplished,
you want to tell folks how we know each other?
Yes,
well,
I mean that was a fantastic introduction.
(00:53):
Thank you.
And I'm like,
I'm blushing,
I told you before we got on here,
I just want to make you all proud because in a lot of ways you have been a proxy and a huge figure in my life was parental units because as you know,
but I'll share with the folks listening,
I am really good friends with your oldest son,
Zak,
we met in Los Angeles because one of my best friends from high school was one of his best friends in college.
(01:21):
So after he finished college and moved back to L.
A.
You know,
L.
A.
Can be a little isolating a little weird to get used to.
And so my friend hooked us up as friends and we actually ended up being better friends than any one of us put together were also again in a very similar life stages and you know,
met when we were 22 now at my big age of 33 again have,
(01:46):
that has been,
I think one of my most sustaining friendships,
so shout out to Zach who is amazing And again is also a connector.
And so whenever I would go over to see him,
I would see all and it would be randomly,
you know,
like nine or 10 at night,
we'd just be like hanging out in his area and you know,
you and your husband would walk over say hey and it got to a point where I was more excited to see you both and rosie of course,
(02:15):
of course,
who's my girl over your dog,
But also like my spirit animal.
We cultivated a relationship I think personally and then again have been embedded sort of in your life and I've watched you grow in your journey as a president and I'm just intensely proud of you and intensely humbled to even be here today.
(02:35):
So thank you for having me and and it goes both ways.
Thanks Chelsea.
And I do remember those days,
remember you show up at 10:00 PM,
like Chelsea inside voice please.
I don't think you ever saw me in anything but my pajamas for the first year.
It was all good morning.
I do not have an inside voice.
(02:56):
So we learned that we were good were good.
Anyway,
thank you for right.
We've been on both coasts together.
So we agree with sort of like coastal people either were in L.
A.
Or in Manhattan now Philly,
which is counselors East coast,
that's for sure.
Before we start talking about your journey,
Tell me what you think because I haven't had a chance to really process what thank you for coming to the inauguration.
(03:18):
What do you think?
What do you think the holy family?
Because that was the first time you were on our campus.
Right?
Yes,
it was.
And again,
thank you for having me when sort of Zach like extended the invitation was like,
my mom would love for you to be there.
I was like me,
okay.
And I think like I was so excited to again like see everything that you do that we talk about that we like again sit in your kitchen and sort of like muse about for hours on end to see that like live and in person and to see your passion like come together in this way with this school.
(03:53):
And the passion that they have for you as well was again,
not only humbling but really energizing.
You know,
I came to Philly again not knowing what to expect at all truly because you know,
I had this sort of this concept of,
okay,
it's gonna be an inauguration.
You know,
there will be sort of procedures and everything will feel formal,
(04:13):
but it felt really,
really intimate.
And I think the biggest thing that I was struck by was the personality and the personal notes that um were threaded throughout,
right.
Whether it was at your official inauguration,
the things that people were saying about you,
which I know to be true again personally,
(04:33):
but we're sort of on a bigger,
wider stage and everyone just had that same threat of appreciation for you,
for what you do and for what you stand for I think was really amazing to see and to be able to celebrate that in person with you and with your family and with the entire holy family family was a moment that again,
I was really,
(04:54):
really humbled to be a part of.
And I think the other piece that I had mentioned to jen your producer was I was really struck by the level of community.
Again,
when it came to people of color.
Again,
going to a school,
a smaller school,
I didn't know what to expect.
I went to a small school by all and large.
It was considered one of the best schools in the country,
(05:15):
but its diversity and its inclusivity left a lot to be desired.
And I think that left a lasting impression on me in terms of small schools and what to expect in terms of the way that they service people and women of color.
But I was struck with how many people of color there were,
how many people of color that were there and showed up for you how many women of color had like huge smiles on their faces when they saw you the little video of the students who like pulled together that sort of like welcome and welcome president.
(05:47):
Yeah,
it was,
there were like volleyball players and like tech people and like nursing students.
Like it was just a really,
really wonderful like mix of students and I saw more faces of color than I really expected to be quite honest to.
Again,
people like came up to me and were like,
oh my God,
it's great to see you here.
Like I like love,
(06:08):
like what I like truly someone who,
what I'm bothered was that I was like,
oh my God,
like here this like small college in philadelphia like I don't know,
it's just really amazing group.
I know like I'm telling you,
I have been again,
that's my alma mater and that has not happened.
That is saying something that's not a value assessment,
(06:31):
it's more,
again,
just more a realization not to see these communities be created and fostered and supported it can anywhere and it takes intention.
And I think that has been clear again since you know,
you've been in this role for a little bit and this was sort of the official inauguration,
your imprint and your impact has already been felt and I know that because I know who you are and I know how you move and so I was just really struck by that.
(06:57):
And so I was excited to be there and be able to support you and really just get a chance to see more of it so we can do more of it.
Yeah,
well thank you.
I know you and I have lots of conversations about big school small schools,
elite schools,
open admissions schools,
schools that are H.
B.
C.
U.
S.
And schools that are minority serving.
(07:18):
And you know,
my commitment has always been to urban minority serving institutions.
And so in many ways as a white woman,
sometimes I am breaking that ceiling and hopefully for all women,
right?
And even for men that are first generation as a child of an immigrant,
I always carry that with me too.
So there's things that resonated me that are similar to other ethnicities experience as a first gen kid just because that's different when your parent doesn't speak english,
(07:48):
there's a world of difference that you bring that has nothing to do with your socioeconomic status that all gets wrapped up.
So thank you because I do hope that's what we all represent for each other.
Right?
The possibility because it is true when you see me at the kitchen table,
I don't look like a traditional what one thinks of as a college president,
whatever that is.
(08:09):
But hopefully in this day and age it's evolving part of what you know,
we live in in this world and I love education and that's my life.
And I always say at the end of the day,
we're in education folks,
how luck could we be?
This is what we get to pay attention to when you think about your journey.
And one of the things there's so much I'd love to talk to you about one is you know that trying period in the twenties because it really struck me that as young people,
(08:36):
most of you are on this 4th March where you go through,
you go through school,
you go through college,
you're told what to do,
You go through all,
you check the boxes,
you do all the activities and then all of a sudden you're 22 you graduate and you're like,
wow Now what?
So maybe talk to us a little bit about so impressive,
but I know you didn't start there at 23 so maybe you know,
(08:59):
for an inspiration for all those folks out there still,
we all are always figuring it out,
right?
I was still trying to figure it out.
So share a little bit with us.
Yeah,
no,
and it's so funny because looking maybe back at my career can feel like impressive and like how do you do it?
But in my mind I'm like,
oh I'm not even there yet like at all.
(09:21):
And so I think to your point,
like I'm still very much figuring it out and 11,
12 years ago I had no idea.
You know,
I graduated from Yale again,
an elite institution that had a lot of access and offered a lot of opportunities,
but ones that didn't feel right for me and didn't feel right for my spirit.
(09:43):
I actually like wouldn't classify myself as an ambitious person,
although Zach probably would disagree.
Um but I think I was looking for something that I could really dig into and I wasn't really sure how to get there,
I wasn't really sure how to be in those rooms or how to even advocate for myself.
I think that's probably the biggest thing that I've learned over the past decade that I didn't have when I was 22 is understanding how to advocate for myself and understanding when to put my hand up and when to say,
(10:14):
no it's me not the person next to me,
not the person across from me it's me and at 22 I don't think I had those skills and that experience yet to understand that I deserved to be in those rooms and in bigger rooms and so at 22 post graduation,
you know,
they said I moved back to L.
A.
Which is where I'm from and was a little bit lost.
(10:35):
I wasn't sure what I wanted to do.
You know,
I wanted always to be in storytelling,
I was an english major in african american studies major.
So those things have always been my passion and my calling,
but I wasn't sure how to apply them and so I sort of went through a couple of different phases,
I was doing personal talent pr which was glorified babysitting and that didn't work and I like quit that after like five months,
(11:01):
literally and I'm not a quitter,
so if it,
if I quit like that it was that bad and then I think for me,
I was sort of like in an in between stage,
because again,
I have high expectations for myself,
but I didn't know how to obtain them or how to again advocate for myself in the right way.
And so what I decided to do,
(11:22):
which again may work for some may not work for others was to change my surroundings because I decided if I'm doing the same thing every day,
I'm gonna get the same results,
so I need to switch something up,
you know,
in february of 2012,
when I was about 23 I decided I'm just gonna move to new york,
I don't have a job or an apartment,
I don't have it figured out,
I have no idea what I'm doing,
(11:43):
but I'm gonna move to new york and we'll see again,
I may be back in five months,
I may be back in five years,
I may never be back,
but I will kick myself if I don't try if I don't just try and I think for me that gave me the kick start that I needed to understand that I was the one in charge of my life and no one else was going to fix it for me,
(12:05):
no one else was going to change it unless I made the steps to change it myself and to break out of patterns that weren't working for me and to establish new ones.
And so I think that moved to new york at 23 was a really big turning point for me to understand how to realize that the doors that I wanted open,
like I was already standing in front of,
I just needed to walk through And that I think was a huge sort of just like mind shift for me.
(12:31):
And so again,
20 is very much our time for experimentation.
I encourage that hugely for young people,
you gotta know what you want and more importantly,
you got to know what you don't want and what doesn't work for you.
So you can cross that off the list and never have to go back to it again,
it will make your day so much easier if you can prioritize that list of this is going to serve me and this isn't,
(12:52):
it may work for someone else.
It doesn't work for me and vice versa.
And so when I got to new york,
I was really open to those possibilities to exploring things to experimenting.
And so I got into writing,
I got into brand pr and marketing and communications and that's where I really sat for about 10 years until I was just about 30 31 I was in brand,
(13:15):
I was in communications.
I was in the business of storytelling,
which was beautiful because I got to see how businesses work.
I got to see how brands were built and I got to see the people behind them and that was what I was interested in.
That was what I was really,
really rooted in understanding.
And it took me a while to understand that.
Oh,
that's what I like,
I like breaking down a story into its parts,
(13:37):
into its subjects,
into its objects and really understanding the motivations behind them.
And so it took me taking a leap of faith on myself and understanding that I had the tools that I've learned both from my family,
from my schooling,
from my environment and the rest I've learned.
That's the only way that I'm gonna be able to do it just learning.
(13:59):
Because everyone at this point,
you me everyone in between.
We're all taking educated guesses and that's what I think.
Education adults don't tell the kids,
okay,
I won't tell you that you cross the line,
you're on the adult side,
be careful,
but that's true and I think that's your point about why education is so powerful,
(14:23):
right?
Because they can arm you with the ability and the skill set to make those decisions in times when you don't know,
and you can say I can fall back on my education,
I can fall back on the mentorship or again the network of folks who have cultivated,
who can help guide me,
but who can also say like you've got this like you are your own best advocate in these situations and I think for people in their twenties who are trying to look for some direction,
(14:49):
like that's what I would say to them,
you are your own best advocate and no one can tell you how to live your life better than you can.
And that is really hard because I'm sure I know I can think back and some of the things that were said to me or some of the sort of decisions that I made I made early on in my career because I didn't have confidence and I didn't feel like I had that sense of agency where you know,
(15:12):
you think,
why didn't I speak up?
Why didn't I la la la la Well,
because I just didn't have felt like I could write and you go and and so part of that,
I think you have to go through it to learn it right?
But as you said,
learn from it,
like what's okay?
So what am I learning from all this?
We also appreciated since we were back on the east Coast and you moved to the Upper West side.
(15:36):
So we got to see you again on the upper west side.
So tell me why this venue Right?
It's such a you having your providing such a powerful voice to a community you care about and you relate to and that's important.
So how did you come to that?
Like how'd you get?
Because you know we're all like,
wow,
(15:56):
what's Chelsea doing now?
So how did you come to it and why?
Like why do you because I can figure it out but tell us like why why this of all the things you could be doing?
Yeah,
again,
I think at this point in my life I want to do things that are additive to the world.
They actually must be additive otherwise why am I doing them again when I talk about prioritization?
(16:20):
They have to give something.
I come from a mindset cultivated by my father of abundance and that when you put your hand out to give,
that's when you receive and for me again for a long time,
I was really invested in storytelling.
I was doing pr I was doing branded communications,
I was telling stories,
(16:41):
I wasn't really creating them,
I wasn't owning them.
I was telling someone else's story and I was sitting backstage in the wings mouthing the words to people's speeches that I had written and really not necessarily connecting with them and not connecting with the purpose that I had put into those words because they weren't mine And they weren't mine to give in those moments.
(17:06):
And so about five years ago I went to refinery 29,
I was the like head of communications their and essentially I was doing that.
I was in house though before I've been in agencies,
so I was a step removed this time I was in house being able to see these stories like the sausage being made of how we built video series or How we decided to hire these folks or build content or the stories that we created or the conversations that we had.
(17:33):
I was there on the ground floor about six months into my tenure in the communication side.
Two of the editors at refinery came to me,
two black girls and 529,
about five years ago I have no problem saying was incredibly white,
82% white.
I could count and name the number of people of color and the number of black women was even smaller.
(17:57):
So I knew these ladies very intimately,
you know you you have those looks across the room in a meeting when you're like or you have those times at the water cooler when you're like interesting and they came to me and said,
we want to create a community for us by us,
We don't know what you want to call it,
we don't know where we want it to be,
we don't know what it looks like,
can you help us?
(18:18):
And I was like not me,
I just like write the speeches and they're like no Chelsea,
you you are the one who has the executive's ear,
they respect you,
they know you,
you take such care with what you do with refinery and we know that you care about this.
And so in that situation I have people who are advocating for me before I even was advocating for myself at that time and so I worked with them to create this community and you know,
(18:47):
ultimately after lots of work and branding and messaging,
building,
you know,
all the things that I learned from my 10 years in branding and in storytelling and in communications and in sales and executive leadership decided,
hey,
like this is what it should be,
it should be social first,
it should be called and bothered because in order to be a black woman in this world,
sometimes you just have to be unbothered still to this day,
(19:10):
I believe that and we should do it now,
regardless of what the executive team says,
let's create it.
And so we did,
they liked it,
which was great and shout out to the executive team for believing in that.
But the first year and a half that we were live,
we didn't have any revenue tied to it,
no partners,
nothing.
It was purely organic and we got 200,000 followers on instagram,
(19:33):
purely just on vibes.
After a while,
I was like,
I was still in my communications position,
but I was doing more work within bothered.
I was being pulled in more to those conversations and the person who was leading it at the time,
Danielle cadet who is again,
still to this day,
one of my greatest friends said,
hey,
your storyteller,
(19:53):
I want you to produce our podcast,
go off this.
So again,
a situation where someone else is advocating for me before I was even ready to advocate for myself and she said,
not only do I want you to produce this,
I want you to be on it.
And I said,
all right,
sure Lord knows I can talk all day.
So I started producing that podcast and it ended up,
(20:16):
you know,
winning the award for best podcast of the year in 2020 and has like gotten huge accolades and all the things which is great,
but I,
the feedback that I got from the community and from the people who were listening to it and who are telling me that they felt seen because we were having conversations around mental health,
around you know,
tropes around being the strong black woman,
around,
(20:36):
going to therapy,
around,
you know,
dealing with the entertainment and the world of beauty and the standards that we put upon black women and the sweat equity that we put into our work,
but don't get back on a corporate level,
sometimes was more impactful than anything.
And then two years ago that same Danielle came to me and said,
I'm moving on and you need to lead this brand And I said no three times I said no Danielle,
(21:05):
like I do not have the experience,
I have never written an article or for finery,
I'm not a social girl,
I don't know how to run a brand.
And she said Chelsea,
this is yours,
take it.
And I said no,
I don't think so.
I don't know how to run a team.
I can't do all this.
And she said Chelsea,
this is yours,
(21:25):
take it.
And after three times and like months of conversation,
I finally was like,
all right,
the worst thing I can do is fail.
But at least I'm trying in the same way that I moved to new york and that was about two years ago and I can say like quite emphatically that that has changed my life and I think again that is all power to the other black woman who are advocates for me when I wasn't an advocate for myself.
(21:53):
And that again,
when I say being of service or pushing forward a mindset of abundance and opening your hand to give,
that's when you receive it's because that has been the same energy afforded to me and it is my privilege and honor to pass that along to the community that I represent the community that I lied and the brand that I steer.
(22:15):
And so it's a it's a privilege.
I don't take lightly.
I understand it is the responsibility,
No one on my team has to do what they have to do,
they choose to,
I tell them that every day because when the computer goes down and we're done for the day,
these aren't things that we close,
these are things that I talked about in my group chat with my sister.
(22:36):
I talked about with you across the dinner table,
I talk about and text with Zach on a weekly basis.
I don't stop being a black woman when the day ends and that is really a hugely important to me.
And it's hugely important that I have those conversations in the same voice and the same peer to peer language that I do with my sister.
So when I'm figuring out social captions or trying to understand how to have a conversation again about mental health and wellness,
(23:02):
I'm thinking how cannon bothered me,
the home girl in your head,
not the brand that's talking at you,
but the sister that's talking with you.
And I think it's hugely important when it comes to what we've cultivated as a community and why we have such an engaged and successful community because it comes from a place of knowing that we are all in this together.
(23:23):
And when one of us wins,
we all win.
And when one of us stumbles,
we gotta like lock arms and pick ourselves up because it's not anyone else.
So two things from that that I can think up,
right?
So two things one is even after the success,
you said no two times,
it took a third time.
So a little bit of a lesson from them.
(23:44):
So I mean if you had to do it again,
would you should you have said yes to first?
Like what you learn from that,
right?
I mean because you're,
you know,
you appear so comfortable and confident.
So it doesn't seem like why do you say no several times to it?
And do you think just the effect of Covid and you know,
this whole pandemic has,
how has that impacted the work that you're doing?
(24:07):
I think for the first one again,
yes,
I am hugely confident.
And again,
I think that's because in my family and in my life,
bravery has been loved down my spine because it's had to be I also though I am a human being and that impostor syndrome is real.
(24:28):
Like it just is and we all live with it at a certain level,
right?
No matter what again,
Like even in my role and with all the success that I know I theoretically had,
like I still am like,
like who's letting me be here?
Who's letting me talk here?
Like when I have meetings with my Ceo I'm like,
you're really listening to me.
(24:48):
I like those are sometimes the things that like,
I really have to deal with.
And again,
that's at any level,
you know,
whether you're 21 just graduating or again like,
you know the ceo of a brand or whatever,
like I think that's something that again as women and as a woman of color like I very much contend with.
(25:10):
I think it's also because for me I was always in the background but like I knew I could be in the front and so it wasn't a question of oh my God,
what if I fail?
I had to realize it was a question of what if I succeed,
like what if I actually like get all the things that I've been working towards and dreaming about and like journaling about what then And I think it was a situation of now Chelsea like you gotta dream bigger dreams and I think sometimes it can be scary right if if that's what you've been like holding on to like if I just get my shot and data and then the shot comes and you're like oh what's the next one exactly,
(25:58):
and that can be daunting in a way right?
And so I think I had to contend with that of like oh you're kind of afraid of success Chelsea like and there's no reason to be but that doesn't change the fact that you kind of are,
it doesn't make sense,
like success is amazing and that's great and I've done a lot of the things that are on my list and that means I've written down 20 more but I think that was something that I really had to like step back and be like oh this is what you're afraid of and this is what you have to work through.
(26:31):
And I think,
you know,
for me it was a lot of understanding that I deserve success and that I deserve what I've worked so hard for that.
I can say thank you and mean it and I can accept the favor that the universe has brought me.
(26:52):
And I think that was something that I really had to work through,
especially again to your point about your second question at a time when a lot of people were going without and a lot of people were struggling.
So for me to be promoted and you know,
have the shiny new role in in a time of like great unease and economic unease when there was,
(27:13):
you know,
not only the resignation but layoffs and you know,
across the board,
across the country,
in this world,
it was hard for me to celebrate myself.
It's still,
it's hard for me to celebrate myself.
I'm working on that to be honest.
But I think that was,
that was hard.
But I think the other thing that I also learned again is that in the pandemic,
(27:34):
I think there was a lot,
again,
a real focus on black and brown folks and during the pandemic,
I also took over our latin channel called Somos again,
where brown folks and businesses were some of the hardest hit by the pandemic economically and you know,
healthcare wise,
when you think about the actual mortality rates and numbers and so again,
(27:54):
that responsibility doubled to be able to appropriately service the community and appropriately disseminate information because there was a lot of misinformation and understanding the power that we had as a journalistic brand,
right?
And as a media company to share that information platform,
the right conversations in a way that felt productive and additive.
(28:15):
I think the other thing,
you know,
I like to say that 2020 is the year that you know,
we think black people were invented because you know,
it was a pandemic compounded with immense racial violence.
It was debilitating on a personal level of course,
um I can't even the words,
there are no words,
but one it also was a tidal wave because this is not the first nor the last and it's continued.
(28:40):
And so I like to have that microscope or spotlight on.
It was really ironic in a lot of ways and I think for the black community they had to contend with this immense tidal wave of emotion,
but also the spotlight and being told how to perceive it and how to receive it and how to,
you know,
accept the guilt that people were putting on you of,
(29:01):
you know,
I had my friends like texting me like I'm so sorry,
you know,
for everything I've ever done over the past 20 years,
like,
you know,
my boss is telling me,
oh my gosh,
that time I touched your hair,
I'm so sorry,
I'm like I cannot take this on personally,
I cannot take on your you know,
whatever,
whatever you're going through personally,
(29:23):
that is not the burden that black and brown people carry to educate you all or to help you through your crisis.
So I think on a personal level it was really tough,
but also on a professional level in 2020 I was one of two black executives at my company full stop.
So having to to contend with that in a professional way.
And still again,
service of community disseminate information.
(29:45):
Be professional in meetings,
turn my camera on and assume it was impossible.
And so it was very much like this cognitive dissonance of personalities and personas and I think what I learned is that I I can't divorce again my personal from the professional.
It's what makes me great.
(30:06):
It's also what makes me empathetic.
It's also understanding,
hey team,
we're gonna take a break,
I don't care what's going on.
We are taking this week off and you guys are getting for extra comp days because that's the end of the sentence just because and the world will keep spinning will miss some things I will talk to whoever I need to talk to about that you come to me if you get any pushback on that,
(30:33):
but we're turning off and so I think it wasn't only a professional lesson for me of how to be able to marry those two,
but one when you think about sort of the health of your team and the people who you work for and work with and who are on the front lines with you,
you have to nurture them in the same way,
you nurture your audience,
in the same way you nurture your community.
(30:54):
And I think that was the biggest lesson for me in terms of how we waited through this and are continuing to wait through it.
It's so elegantly stated Chelsea in terms of the balance you will we all faced,
but especially the black and brown communities face during this covid,
because you're right,
it was all of these big disparate things all happening at the same time and the growth that you're having,
(31:17):
right.
One of the things you just said,
I know how to lead a team,
it certainly sounds like you've learned a lot about management and leadership.
Oh yes.
Right.
For you to be able to confidently tell your team and take a position like that took a lot for you in terms of recognizing and and billing willingness step up for them.
(31:39):
That's important,
those important steps.
So I have a feeling we're probably gonna go soon.
But you know,
let me ask you the proverbial,
you know,
what would you tell your 22 year old self just graduating from college now?
Oh wow,
okay.
I know it's hard.
I know and you know,
we talked about this on our like podcast,
Go office,
(31:59):
which now we're in like the fifth season and so we've talked about a lot and I hosted with my other editors,
so they're like on my team,
but I'm also like,
when I come into that podcast room,
I'm not their boss,
like I'm like their peer who's also working through things,
and I say at the top of every episode,
like,
this is a safe space for us to go off.
(32:20):
So I'm not again your boss,
nothing that you say here,
whether you're like,
I'm gonna quit tomorrow,
or like,
you know,
I,
like,
didn't do this,
like,
I'm not going to punish you or in any way,
like,
take that with me back into professional Chelsea,
right,
which I think is really important.
So I think that some of the things that we talk about are some of the things that I would tell myself if I was 22 again or my 22 year old self is one,
(32:45):
cultivate safe spaces,
places where you feel like you can be you without harm without question,
without judgment.
That sounds easy.
I know it's not give yourself time to cultivate that safety with people that make you feel safe.
Not everyone is going to come with you on that journey and that's okay,
(33:05):
but finding the right people to support you and who you can support and you can genuinely cheer for.
There's nothing better than that to be able to be like,
you did that sis and for someone to turn around and tell you that too.
Like that's the best feeling in the world and I think I have been immeasurably blessed to be able to have cultivated that safe space and have people who have added me to their safe space.
(33:32):
And so I think that's certainly number one and number two give yourself Grace Chelsea.
And I think a lot of people today are really,
really hard on themselves and I think that's really hard to forgive yourself again for making choices that maybe didn't work out or for choosing people or things or jobs that didn't serve you.
(33:57):
And I think you have to give yourself grace one to make those mistakes and then as you sit in to learn from them because everything that you do right wrong or in between is a lesson and your job,
your only responsibility is to learn that lesson.
It is not to do everything right.
It is not to determine who's the best and what is the absolute a plus work.
(34:22):
You know,
it's it's just learning from it and learning from those experiences and so I think again much easier said than done,
but recognizing that you are human and that you are allowed to make mistakes,
you should make mistakes sometimes the most beautiful things comes from the mistakes that you never thought possible or plausible and giving yourself the grace and the space to make them is really the best if you can give to yourself you're never ever I've never regretted it trying something and failing.
(34:55):
I have regretted not trying and kicking myself for it too.
And you have to be able to let some things go and open up that space for you to have grace and for you to say okay we're here though.
I woke up this morning,
we get to do it again,
like figure it out.
(35:16):
So so a couple of things.
One is what I think you building your community is what I talk about a lot which is relationships because we are always saying you need mentors,
you need networks,
you know we use all of these like professional terms at the end of the day is about being your relationship and having relationships which hopefully helps you find.
So some of those relationships bring you safe space so that's part of it.
(35:40):
And then wise none once said to me don't get ahead of the grace and what she was because I was in the middle of freaked out.
It was when we were moving from L.
A.
To I was moving to Felician University in New Jersey and that she said to me don't get ahead of the grace.
In other words God's Grace is gonna be there for you when you need it.
So just kind of take one step at a time and and it's a way of saying kind of what you're saying you're gonna be able to do it when you need to,
(36:06):
it'll be there.
Just give yourself the grace.
It'll have literally like what is for you is for you and like no one can take that away.
And I think again young people today we have so many not weak,
they not young have so many opportunities and I think it can feel overwhelming or like I don't know what you know and I don't know which path and it's like you can take a beat like you can step back,
(36:32):
you can step forward but know that no one thing is going to turn you off your path.
It may actually direct you towards it.
And that's cool too.
And being again like flexible in that.
And understanding that like the path isn't linear.
Also like anyone who tells you that their path has been easy or linear is not telling you the truth,
like they just aren't.
(36:53):
And yeah,
we need to be more comfortable with like talking about those detours and talking about the ways those forks in the path that we just like learn from and kept moving on because they think that also will help to just help us be more transparent in the ways that we got there and not,
you know,
as the kids are saying like keep that knowledge and to really come again from a mindset of abundance because there's room for us all and we needed and each of us is needed,
(37:22):
especially now we need everybody to step up.
We all need to be there for each other.
It's interesting that you use the term safe space because we started the students asked if they could start a black student union for black students and allies this year and they did a great job.
And and that's exactly one of the things they talk about is,
(37:44):
you know,
generally I like to think that I do think they feel safe.
It is written large on our campus and our campus community,
but the idea that they needed a space where it could just be,
they could just be together was important.
And I understood that,
right?
And so it's for every group,
It's for every group.
But you know,
(38:04):
we could have a whole nother conversation about,
I'm curious because this would be another one.
How do you feel calm comfortable representing the latino population?
Right.
Because we talked about that.
I mean I'm like a president to establish Excellency in Ed,
which is all about advancing latin student success.
Right?
And I'm an italian american.
So why do I care?
(38:25):
Because I care I want to advance everyone.
I want to move everyone should have a chance at education.
Right?
So I love that we can see ourselves crossing those boundaries and still speak to each other absolutely anything like you said,
like I knew again when it when I didn't have someone who was advocating for me how lonely and isolating that was and to have someone who does advocate for you and is an ally in that is amazing.
(38:52):
And then to your point,
you know,
with understanding that the Black Student Union was something that needed to happen,
even though you weren't necessarily a part of it or piloting it is the same way I operates almost I get out of the way that's the best way I can be a leader in that space,
is to move the blockages so that the people who need to speak and need to hold the MIc have it.
(39:13):
So my Deputy director is Puerto Rican,
my social coordinator is Colombian,
my other social coordinator and social editor is also latin X and based in Orlando,
what I've done is really cultivate a space for them to feel safe and that I can protect it.
That is my only job is not to be a part of it.
It is not to be the leader of it,
(39:34):
it is not to have the mic the whole time.
It's actually to be quiet and let them do what they need to do.
And I think in a lot of ways that's really important and I think sometimes allies get nervous about speaking for a community or like how do I,
you know,
reach this community?
It's quite simple.
You give them the mic and then the platform and you make sure their voices are hurt.
(39:56):
That's it,
that's really it.
And you listen to what they're saying when they tell you and they come to you and hopefully what you've cultivated is a space where they can come to you and then can communicate with you.
That is your responsibility as an ally and that is my responsibility.
Just almost kudos to you Chelsea.
I'm just so so proud of you and I'm glad we had this time together and congratulations on all of your successes and I know we will continue to see more of them.
(40:23):
Thank you,
I appreciate you,
you're amazing and I'm just really excited and proud to be here and be able to share in this energy with you.
So thank you so much for having me so to learn more about Chelsea and um bothered.
Please visit refinery 29 dot com and on instagram at our 29 unbothered and at our to nine so most and check out Chelsea's podcast go off sis I love that available anywhere you listen to your podcast and to learn more about Holy family university please visit holy family dot E.
(41:00):
D.
U.
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