June 6, 2025 • 12 mins
In this episode, I talk about 4 possible issues with the Telepathy Tapes podcast AND share a great resource for further reading. I hope I've offered a more nuanced look at the Telepathy Tapes podcast in this episode (which is the 3rd in what has become my Autism and Psychic Abilities series) than I did in my previous episodes!
The first two episodes are:
- Autism and Psychic Experience EP 10 (#1 in series)
- Autistic Traits and Psychic Abilities EP 11 (#2 in series)
The resource I mentioned in the podcast is:
SarahCook.substack.com/p/for-the-birds-radical-empathy
This is an excellent article and a really good Substack to follow.
You can also follow my Substack if you're so inclined at:
If you like my content, please follow the podcast!
Full transcript follows. If you need closed captioning (or the transcript is cut off), please listen via the podbean app or at AutisticPOV.com (https://www.autisticpov.com/).
Full Transcript for EP 12 0:01 Welcome to Autistic POV. My name is Barbara Graver and I started this podcast to share a bit of my journey as a late diagnosed autistic. Hey everybody, this is Barbara Graver. Thank you for joining me today on Autistic POV. This is our third episode in what has kind of become a series on psychic ability. 0:31 I recorded episode one after I discovered the telepathy tapes far later than everybody else on the internet, and we'll talk a bit about that. And then I recorded episode two once I learned a little bit more about the podcast. And I talked about a lot of other things in these episodes. I talked about 0:49 my own experiences and I talked about parapsychology and a little bit about the ruling scientific paradigm in our society. But I talked about the telepathy tapes a lot too. And so I wanted to speak just a little bit on that in this episode because when I did the first episode, I was really excited to discover the podcast. 1:12 And then when I did the second episode and I was a little more aware of some of the controversy around it, I was a little more dialed back. But if you're not familiar with the podcast, it's a podcast about telepathy. and in it they feature several different non-speaking autistic individuals who are demonstrating telepathic abilities. 1:35 And it's really compelling, compelling podcast, but a lot of people have had a problem with it. And looking at it a little more critically than I maybe did initially, I could appreciate that. I think there are a few issues around it. So I wanted to just kind of share my take on that. 1:52 And I think the one problem is that we have a very materialistic mindset. There's a lot of prejudice against anything that is in any way immaterial, non-local, psychic. That's always, always, always going to be challenged. So talked about that, I think, in the first episode. I'll link to all of them. Number two, 2:16 which I talked about in the second episode in this series, I think there's just kind of a general disregard for the lived experience of autistic people. That's very pervasive in our society. So that's another issue that has played a part in generating controversy around this podcast. Number three, 2:35 I think that some people have raised concerns about the potential for exploitation and of non-speaking autistics and their families. And I think that's valid. I think that's something that's worth discussing. And also there is a lot of confusion around augmented and alternative communication and facilitated communication, which is somewhat different. 2:58 So there are a lot of things that kind of come into play. And this All of this was a lot for me to take on. I'm not sure I would have taken it on if I'd realized how much there was to it. But I am glad I did. 3:12 I'm glad I did because exploring this helped me increase my understanding of autism as a spectrum, which I think I'll talk about a little more in the next episode. It helped me kind of come to terms with some of my own experience. It helped me organize my thoughts. 3:29 But I was a little bit all over the place when I did it. So kind of want to try to sum it up a little. As far as the first and second points, the scientific community and the prejudice against the lived experience of autistic people, I think I've discussed that enough. Number four, 3:47 talking about augmented and assisted communication, I think it's absolutely valid, but not everyone understands it. And more relevantly, the more variables you put intMark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
[Music]
(00:06):
welcome to Autistic POV my name is
Barbara Graver and I started this
podcast to share a bit of my journey as
a late diagnosed
autistic hi everybody this is Barbara
Graver thank you for joining me today on
Autistic POV this is our third episode
in what has kind of become a series on
(00:29):
psychic ability i recorded episode one
after I discovered the telepathy tapes
far later than everybody else on the
internet and we'll talk a bit about that
and then I recorded episode two once I
learned a little bit more about the
podcast and I talked about a lot of
other things in these episodes i talked
about my own experiences and I talked
(00:51):
about parasychology and a little bit
about the ruling scientific paradigm in
our society but I talked about the
telepathy tapes a lot too and so I
wanted to speak just a little bit on
that in this episode because when I did
the first episode I was really excited
to discover the podcast and then when I
(01:12):
did the second episode and I was a
little more aware of some of the
controversy around it i was a little
more dialed back but if you're not
familiar with the podcast it's a podcast
about telepathy and in it they
feature several different non-speaking
autistic individuals who are
demonstrating telepathic abilities and
(01:35):
it's really a compelling compelling
podcast but a lot of people have had a
problem with it and looking at it a
little more critically than I maybe did
initially I could appreciate that i I
think there are a few issues around it
so I wanted to just kind of share my
take on that and I think that one
problem is that we have a very
(01:56):
materialistic mindset there's a lot of
prejudice against anything that is in
any way immaterial non-local psychic
that's always always always going to be
challenged so talked about that I think
in the first episode i'll link to all of
them number two which I talked about in
(02:17):
the second episode in this series I
think there's just kind of a general
disregard for the lived experience of
autistic people that's very pervasive in
our society so that's another issue when
that that has played a part in
generating controversy around this
podcast number three I think that some
people have raised concerns about the
(02:38):
potential for exploitation of
non-speaking autistics and and their
families and and I think that's valid i
think that's something that's worth
discussing and also there is a lot of
confusion around augmented and
alternative communication and
facilitated communication which is is
somewhat different so there there are a
(03:00):
lot of things that kind of come into
play and this all of this was a lot for
me to take on i'm not sure I would have
taken it on if I'd realized how much
there was to it but I am glad I did i'm
glad I did because exploring this gave
me helped me increase my understanding
of autism as a spectrum which I I think
(03:22):
I'll talk about a little more in the
next episode it helped me kind of come
to terms with some of my own experience
that helped me organize my thoughts but
I was a little bit all over the place
when I did it so kind of want to try to
sum it up a little as far as the first
and second points the scientific
community and the prejudice against the
lived experience of autistic people i
(03:44):
think I've discussed that enough number
four talking about augmented and
assisted communication I I think it's
absolutely valid but not everyone
understands it and more relevantly the
more variables you put into research the
more complex it becomes and when you're
trying to research anything to do with
(04:06):
sigh telepathy precognition clairvoyance
whatever it may be it's already
difficult and it's already going to be
challenged like crazy so having that
extra variable of the communication
devices does make this uh more complex
definitely so those are the four things
I kind of see as issues with the podcast
(04:30):
however I don't mean to say that I
discount it i I found it very convincing
i found it very convincing and it spoke
to me in a couple different ways it gave
me a better understanding of a different
way to look at the spectrum and it
validated some of my own experience and
(04:52):
it just it made me aware of things that
I wasn't really aware of before so I'm
really glad I did the podcast and I'm
glad I found out about it but I did want
to say I understand that there are
issues around it and I understand why
and I wanted to speak just a little bit
about my third point about
(05:13):
exploitation and to me there there are
there are there is a potential for
exploitation with this i read a book by
William Stillman which was called Autism
and the God Connection and I really
liked that book i liked a lot of what he
had to say but I felt like he was kind
ofromanticizing non-speaking autism and I
(05:34):
think because my
particular situation I am a late
diagnosed autistic i I have a child
who's autistic and I have another child
who's in a power chair and everything
that RFK said about autistic people
could apply to my child in the power
chair he's not autistic but a lot of
those things apply and that is no easy
(05:57):
road and for parents who have children
who in addition to being non-speaking
may require lifetime care that's a
difficult thing to take on and and
people are vulnerable people are
definitely vulnerable and and I think
that we have to be wary of romanticizing
(06:18):
something that is a a very difficult
situation for some people so I do think
there are issues around it definitely
but I also think that there's something
there i do think there's something there
i do feel that some autistic traits like
sensitivity and pattern
recognition do tend to occur in
(06:40):
proximity to psychic abilities and and I
think when people are challenged in a
certain area they do tend to develop
compensatory abilities and and I think
that is one way to look at psychic
abilities definitely is is comp
compensating for other issues and and I
just I don't have a whole lot to say in
this episode but I just wanted to kind
(07:02):
of share that that that I realize it's a
a complicated and nuanced
situation and I also want to share a
resource let me find it here um I I
follow quite a diff quite a few
different people on Substack and one
substack I really like is called for the
birds and this is written by Sarah
(07:23):
Teresa Cook and she did an article on
the telepathy tapes so I'm going to link
to it but it's called Radical Empathy
the telepathy tapes and the trouble with
coherence and the real people we're
harming when we wholly dismissed the
podcast which is very good much more
comprehensive than what I'm giving you
and I'm going to link to that below but
I do think that we have to be kind of
(07:45):
careful with things like this but I do
not think we should dismiss it out of
hand and I think a lot of prejuditial
stuff both scientific and and uh
cultural comes into this certainly and I
just wanted to kind of say that I also
wanted to speak to a couple mistakes I
made when I was doing this i used the
(08:06):
phrase non-verbal not understanding that
non-verbal is incorrect that
non-speaking is the correct phrase and
and I was thinking non-verbal like
verbal
contract written contract and that is a
legitimate definition of non-verbal but
really verbal speaks to language not
(08:27):
only speaking although culturally it's
kind of used to represent speaking but
the correct the the more correct term is
non-speaking not non-verbal so I wanted
to mention that and also I said I think
in the second podcast I talked about how
science can't really help us with
understanding psychic abilities and I I
was more thinking of science in terms of
(08:48):
the actual anatomy of the brain because
I don't personally feel the brain
generates consciousness and and and I
stand by that i think there's a limit to
how much studying the brain can tell us
about non-local abilities like psychic
ability but I also think that science is
much broader than that and obviously
(09:10):
parasychology is a science that can help
us understand these things so it's not
true that science can't help it's just
maybe true that uh biology has its
limits so I I did want to mention that
and I'm going to be this is just a short
podcast just kind of correcting my past
episodes but I did want to mention that
going forward I'm going to be continuing
(09:33):
to talk about autism and psychic ability
and autistic traits obviously but I'm
going to be doing it more from my
personal perspective and it's nothing
against the content in the telepathy
tapes or anything that has been written
about it necessarily it's just I'm
better off I feel if I stick with my own
lived experience i I don't really feel
(09:56):
qualified upon reflection to talk about
other people's lived experience so I'm
probably not going to do that or at
least not do it often going forward but
I am going to be talking about I'm going
to be talking about psychic ability and
autism because I'm writing this memoir
and it's coming up and coming up and
coming up even though it would be easier
for me if it didn't it it just has to be
(10:19):
part of it so we'll be talking about
that and I will be talking a little bit
uh more about about the spectrum and and
that's what I kind of like to touch on
in the next episode like my evolving
understanding of the autism spectrum
part of which was sparked by this
exploration of the telepathy tapes and I
do recommend the blog article on radical
(10:42):
empathy and I'm going to link to all
that stuff in the in the description and
go back if you didn't listen to my first
two episodes go back i mean I think some
of the comments I made about the
telepathy tapes weren't as nuanced as
they should have been but I think the
information I gave on psychic abilities
and parasychology was okay was fine so
(11:03):
you may want to listen to it and next
time I'm doing still doing the first and
third Fridays next time I'm going to be
talking a little bit more about the
spectrum and if you would like to follow
the show please feel free to do that and
you can also find me on Substack uh the
name of my Substack is writing on the
Spectrum but the URL is
(11:27):
barbergraver.substack.com so I'll put
that link in the description too so
that's it for now kind of a short
episode but I I just want to clarify a
few things and give you this resource of
uh the blog article so that's it i will
see you guys later this month until then
this is Barbara Graver of Autistic POV
and thank you very much for listening
(11:52):
[Music]
[Music]
(00:06):
welcome to Autistic POV my name is
Barbara Graver and I started this
podcast to share a bit of my journey as
a late diagnosed
autistic hi everybody this is Barbara
Graver thank you for joining me today on
Autistic POV this is our third episode
in what has kind of become a series on
(00:29):
psychic ability i recorded episode one
after I discovered the telepathy tapes
far later than everybody else on the
internet and we'll talk a bit about that
and then I recorded episode two once I
learned a little bit more about the
podcast and I talked about a lot of
other things in these episodes i talked
about my own experiences and I talked
(00:51):
about parasychology and a little bit
about the ruling scientific paradigm in
our society but I talked about the
telepathy tapes a lot too and so I
wanted to speak just a little bit on
that in this episode because when I did
the first episode I was really excited
to discover the podcast and then when I
(01:12):
did the second episode and I was a
little more aware of some of the
controversy around it i was a little
more dialed back but if you're not
familiar with the podcast it's a podcast
about telepathy and in it they
feature several different non-speaking
autistic individuals who are
demonstrating telepathic abilities and
(01:35):
it's really a compelling compelling
podcast but a lot of people have had a
problem with it and looking at it a
little more critically than I maybe did
initially I could appreciate that i I
think there are a few issues around it
so I wanted to just kind of share my
take on that and I think that one
problem is that we have a very
(01:56):
materialistic mindset there's a lot of
prejudice against anything that is in
any way immaterial non-local psychic
that's always always always going to be
challenged so talked about that I think
in the first episode i'll link to all of
them number two which I talked about in
(02:17):
the second episode in this series I
think there's just kind of a general
disregard for the lived experience of
autistic people that's very pervasive in
our society so that's another issue when
that that has played a part in
generating controversy around this
podcast number three I think that some
people have raised concerns about the
(02:38):
potential for exploitation of
non-speaking autistics and and their
families and and I think that's valid i
think that's something that's worth
discussing and also there is a lot of
confusion around augmented and
alternative communication and
facilitated communication which is is
somewhat different so there there are a
(03:00):
lot of things that kind of come into
play and this all of this was a lot for
me to take on i'm not sure I would have
taken it on if I'd realized how much
there was to it but I am glad I did i'm
glad I did because exploring this gave
me helped me increase my understanding
of autism as a spectrum which I I think
(03:22):
I'll talk about a little more in the
next episode it helped me kind of come
to terms with some of my own experience
that helped me organize my thoughts but
I was a little bit all over the place
when I did it so kind of want to try to
sum it up a little as far as the first
and second points the scientific
community and the prejudice against the
lived experience of autistic people i
(03:44):
think I've discussed that enough number
four talking about augmented and
assisted communication I I think it's
absolutely valid but not everyone
understands it and more relevantly the
more variables you put into research the
more complex it becomes and when you're
trying to research anything to do with
(04:06):
sigh telepathy precognition clairvoyance
whatever it may be it's already
difficult and it's already going to be
challenged like crazy so having that
extra variable of the communication
devices does make this uh more complex
definitely so those are the four things
I kind of see as issues with the podcast
(04:30):
however I don't mean to say that I
discount it i I found it very convincing
i found it very convincing and it spoke
to me in a couple different ways it gave
me a better understanding of a different
way to look at the spectrum and it
validated some of my own experience and
(04:52):
it just it made me aware of things that
I wasn't really aware of before so I'm
really glad I did the podcast and I'm
glad I found out about it but I did want
to say I understand that there are
issues around it and I understand why
and I wanted to speak just a little bit
about my third point about
(05:13):
exploitation and to me there there are
there are there is a potential for
exploitation with this i read a book by
William Stillman which was called Autism
and the God Connection and I really
liked that book i liked a lot of what he
had to say but I felt like he was kind
ofromanticizing non-speaking autism and I
(05:34):
think because my
particular situation I am a late
diagnosed autistic i I have a child
who's autistic and I have another child
who's in a power chair and everything
that RFK said about autistic people
could apply to my child in the power
chair he's not autistic but a lot of
those things apply and that is no easy
(05:57):
road and for parents who have children
who in addition to being non-speaking
may require lifetime care that's a
difficult thing to take on and and
people are vulnerable people are
definitely vulnerable and and I think
that we have to be wary of romanticizing
(06:18):
something that is a a very difficult
situation for some people so I do think
there are issues around it definitely
but I also think that there's something
there i do think there's something there
i do feel that some autistic traits like
sensitivity and pattern
recognition do tend to occur in
(06:40):
proximity to psychic abilities and and I
think when people are challenged in a
certain area they do tend to develop
compensatory abilities and and I think
that is one way to look at psychic
abilities definitely is is comp
compensating for other issues and and I
just I don't have a whole lot to say in
this episode but I just wanted to kind
(07:02):
of share that that that I realize it's a
a complicated and nuanced
situation and I also want to share a
resource let me find it here um I I
follow quite a diff quite a few
different people on Substack and one
substack I really like is called for the
birds and this is written by Sarah
(07:23):
Teresa Cook and she did an article on
the telepathy tapes so I'm going to link
to it but it's called Radical Empathy
the telepathy tapes and the trouble with
coherence and the real people we're
harming when we wholly dismissed the
podcast which is very good much more
comprehensive than what I'm giving you
and I'm going to link to that below but
I do think that we have to be kind of
(07:45):
careful with things like this but I do
not think we should dismiss it out of
hand and I think a lot of prejuditial
stuff both scientific and and uh
cultural comes into this certainly and I
just wanted to kind of say that I also
wanted to speak to a couple mistakes I
made when I was doing this i used the
(08:06):
phrase non-verbal not understanding that
non-verbal is incorrect that
non-speaking is the correct phrase and
and I was thinking non-verbal like
verbal
contract written contract and that is a
legitimate definition of non-verbal but
really verbal speaks to language not
(08:27):
only speaking although culturally it's
kind of used to represent speaking but
the correct the the more correct term is
non-speaking not non-verbal so I wanted
to mention that and also I said I think
in the second podcast I talked about how
science can't really help us with
understanding psychic abilities and I I
was more thinking of science in terms of
(08:48):
the actual anatomy of the brain because
I don't personally feel the brain
generates consciousness and and and I
stand by that i think there's a limit to
how much studying the brain can tell us
about non-local abilities like psychic
ability but I also think that science is
much broader than that and obviously
(09:10):
parasychology is a science that can help
us understand these things so it's not
true that science can't help it's just
maybe true that uh biology has its
limits so I I did want to mention that
and I'm going to be this is just a short
podcast just kind of correcting my past
episodes but I did want to mention that
going forward I'm going to be continuing
(09:33):
to talk about autism and psychic ability
and autistic traits obviously but I'm
going to be doing it more from my
personal perspective and it's nothing
against the content in the telepathy
tapes or anything that has been written
about it necessarily it's just I'm
better off I feel if I stick with my own
lived experience i I don't really feel
(09:56):
qualified upon reflection to talk about
other people's lived experience so I'm
probably not going to do that or at
least not do it often going forward but
I am going to be talking about I'm going
to be talking about psychic ability and
autism because I'm writing this memoir
and it's coming up and coming up and
coming up even though it would be easier
for me if it didn't it it just has to be
(10:19):
part of it so we'll be talking about
that and I will be talking a little bit
uh more about about the spectrum and and
that's what I kind of like to touch on
in the next episode like my evolving
understanding of the autism spectrum
part of which was sparked by this
exploration of the telepathy tapes and I
do recommend the blog article on radical
(10:42):
empathy and I'm going to link to all
that stuff in the in the description and
go back if you didn't listen to my first
two episodes go back i mean I think some
of the comments I made about the
telepathy tapes weren't as nuanced as
they should have been but I think the
information I gave on psychic abilities
and parasychology was okay was fine so
(11:03):
you may want to listen to it and next
time I'm doing still doing the first and
third Fridays next time I'm going to be
talking a little bit more about the
spectrum and if you would like to follow
the show please feel free to do that and
you can also find me on Substack uh the
name of my Substack is writing on the
Spectrum but the URL is
(11:27):
barbergraver.substack.com so I'll put
that link in the description too so
that's it for now kind of a short
episode but I I just want to clarify a
few things and give you this resource of
uh the blog article so that's it i will
see you guys later this month until then
this is Barbara Graver of Autistic POV
and thank you very much for listening
(11:52):
[Music]
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