April 17, 2025 • 22 mins
How masking can be helpful at times. How it can hurt. My experience with autistic masking and unmasking. My new unmasking autism workbook. I am planning future episodes on the topic.
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- Post quoted in the article: "Why classic therapies don't work for autistic people?" by Pascale Larivierre
- Workbook mentioned in the article "The Unmasking Workbook for Autistic Adults" by Jessica Penot, LPC-S
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
[Music]
(00:06):
welcome to Autistic POV my name is
Barbara Graver and I started this
podcast to share a bit of my journey as
a late diagnosed
autistic hi everybody this is Barbara
Graver thank you for joining me today on
Autistic POV today I wanted to talk
about masking i I'm just actually making
(00:29):
a few observations on masking i do want
to return to this topic at some point
but I just wanted to take kind of a pro
and con approach to it today because
this is something that's come up for me
recently so I have been using a workbook
called the unmasking workbook for
autistic adults it's written by Jessica
(00:52):
Pino who is a licensed uh a licensed
counselor and autistic person and it's a
great workbook i love it i like the way
it's set up i like the way it builds it
builds to this point kind of in the
center where there are two charts that
the author calls a template for change
and I like the way the book is
(01:13):
structured because the way it works is
if you work through each section by the
time you get to this very important part
of the book you you know what you want
to say which is great so I I think it's
very well constructed and this part of
the book it basically has two sections
to it what what do you consider a gift
(01:35):
of autism and what do you need help with
and I like that i like that approach i
filled it in but I found it necessary to
create a third category of things that I
considered adaptive measures so they're
not they're not necessarily things I
want to change some some things around
it I may want to change but they are
(01:56):
adaptive measures and one of the things
I listed in this along along with some
other things we'll talk about at some
other time was masking and I I was kind
of surprised i kind of surprised myself
that I put it there because o unmasking
has been a huge thing for me i I've
suffered a lot through masking but I did
(02:18):
put it there and the reason I did is
because masking can have a benefit i
mean masking can be a layer kind of a
layer between you and the world and
while it is a soul crushing thing
certainly not being able to mask is
(02:39):
highly highly debilitating and it was
interesting because I came across an
article on Substack and and I'll link to
it below the article was about two
sisters two women with autism one was
highly masking and the other couldn't
mask at all and I was surprised by my
reaction to it because to me it wasn't
(03:00):
really an eitheror to me I could
identify with the experience of both of
these people and that's because
sometimes I can mask and sometimes I
can't i have had epic epic meltdowns in
public when unable to mask and at other
times I've endured difficult things
without any kind of incident because of
(03:22):
my ability to basically pretend I was
okay
so I mean that's not good enduring
things is not good usually but
sometimes there isn't another choice and
it is useful to be able to to step
behind masking like kind of seeing it as
a shield where you can step behind it
(03:45):
and you can interact and and I do this
in my everyday life i don't have a lot
of contact with other people in my
everyday life i basically spend time
with my family and my pets and do media
online and have a few online friends and
see autism therapist and that's pretty
much the extent of my my social
(04:06):
involvement but I do leave the house i
leave the house and I interact with
people on a limited kind of superficial
basis and I have stock phrases that I
can use when I'm walking my dog and
someone says hello i have certain things
I'll say about the weather or certain
responses I'll make and they're not
necessarily memorized but they're things
(04:28):
I use over and over again and it's kind
of my way of interacting and that's
masking and it doesn't hurt me to do
that it's not satisfying but it doesn't
hurt me and I kind of feel proud of
myself when I have like one of those
little kind of ordinary exchanges with
someone and I feel like I handle it well
(04:49):
and it doesn't matter that nothing
important is being communicated what
matters is that I'm kind of proud of
myself after I do this and it allows me
to present a a aspect of myself that
people can accept so it can be good and
masking in particular could be good when
it keeps you from um it keeps you from
(05:13):
having a meltdown say that's what this
article on Substack was about i am kind
of all over the place but this article
on Substack the girl said how her sister
who could not mask would have meltdowns
at work and how it was so debilitating
and and I agree with that 100% it is and
I have done that i identified with both
(05:36):
and I think a lot of people probably can
certainly there are people who can't
mask at all and that's very debilitating
i'm not trying to minimize that but I
think that a lot of us have had that
experience of being able to mask and
then not being able to mask and I think
that too is worth looking at so that's
kind of how I look at masking it's not
(05:59):
100% 100% bad but it could lead to some
pretty dark places and I wouldn't want
to pretend
otherwise and unmasking is a good thing
it to me unmasking is a good thing at
this point in my life I am looking at it
in a little bit different way than I
think a lot of people do because I have
(06:20):
kind of a limited involvement in the
world to me masking is not trying to
blend in or trying to fool people or
trying to seem normal i did that i've
done that in my life i did it in school
and interestingly I felt like I
accomplished it like particularly in
high school I felt like I accomplished
it and at great personal cost but now I
(06:43):
look back and I think I I don't really
think I fooled anyone and I I think in
most situations people always perceived
me as awkward and unusual and a little
strange and I was sometimes just kind of
oblivious to that but so I don't think I
was ever really really super successful
with blending in but that's not the kind
(07:05):
of unmasking I'm really worried about
now because I it's not only that I can't
really do it it's that I don't really
want to do it i just don't want to and I
don't have to and I feel really really
lucky that I don't have to
and the way I look at unmasking now is
like simple simple things so one way
I've tried to unmask is by uh
(07:27):
recognizing when something's too much
for me and to not push myself to endure
situations that are overwhelming for me
and another way I've done it is
by not allowing myself to be unduly
influenced by other people's ideas about
my personal preferences and just a
(07:48):
couple examples like one way recognizing
when something's too much for me i did
the taxes this this week and when I did
my taxes I I knew if I tried to we have
a rental unit so there's there's a lot
to that i knew if I tried to do it all
all in one day it would be overwhelming
so I collected all the little pieces of
(08:10):
information I needed and there are a lot
of them over the course of a week and
then I sat down to do it on tax day
which was a mistake but I got through it
i got got through it okay because I had
everything there and my son had helped
me with some of it but I was just washed
out after I did that and even though I
don't consider doing taxes hard I don't
(08:32):
consider it confusing or difficult I
still find it super stressful like any
paperwork I I find stressful so I chose
to not cook that that day i didn't even
make lunch i ordered lunch and I ordered
dinner which I never do i don't do that
routinely but I could have pushed myself
to make the meal I had planned for that
(08:54):
night but I chose not to because I knew
it would be too much i think that's a
form of unmasking because it's a mask to
pretend you could handle something when
you can't that's masking to me and
another thing when I mentioned not being
influenced by other people's perceptions
there are things that bother me like
ceiling lights shining in my eyes and
(09:16):
and various noise different kinds of
noises going on and I used to kind of
internalize people's reaction to that
when they would say "That's ridiculous
there's no reason why you that should
bother you." I would think "You're right
shouldn't bother me i'll just white
knuckle it." And sometimes I could
and sometimes I couldn't but I don't
(09:38):
I'm trying not to do that anymore i'm
trying to tell myself that they don't
understand and that that isn't my
problem so that's another way and and
kind of hand inhand with that like
honoring limits like not attributing
um not
attributing my reactions to bad behavior
(10:02):
or or subjective labels like thinking
I'm picky or I'm fussy or I'm selfish or
I'm um immature like I I try to just
think that this is something that's
overwhelming me and I try to kind of
honor that that this is a limit for me
example is I was making dinner and
(10:23):
everybody in our house we don't eat at
the table we hate to we just I make the
food and they grab it and take it so
somebody was getting food off the stove
and a a pan of corn fell off so the pan
of corn fell off and the person who was
there when it fell started talking about
how this teapot's always in the way and
(10:44):
on and on and another person in the
kitchen started talking about um don't
worry about it it's no big deal and
meanwhile the dog's trying to eat it and
somebody else is saying it won't hurt
him it's good for him it was just like
all this pandemonium was going on and it
was so overwhelming to me and a lot of
(11:05):
times I'll overreact quote overreact to
situation like that and I'll kind of get
shamed a little like it's just corn how
could you overreact like that but it's
not about the corn it's about the chaos
and I'm beginning to kind of see things
like that a little more clearly and
to honor my reaction to it to not to not
(11:28):
demonize my reaction to it to not
mislabel it so I just said "Everything
has to stop i have to clean this up."
And it worked it kind of worked and and
I had a similar situation with not
having been given enough time to do
something
where should I be able to do these tasks
(11:49):
in an hour and get to an appointment on
time should I should should the average
person probably but it it's triggering
for me and I felt it myself getting
triggered and I had no choice i had to
do it but I I was extremely extremely
pressured and triggered and I didn't
quite have a meltdown but I I could have
(12:14):
i was I was getting close like if if
things had started to go wrong I
probably would have and I I don't let
myself blame myself for that i don't
make myself try to pretend I'm good with
this because that's masking i mean it
may be a basic form of masking it's not
masking like going into a board meeting
and making everyone think you're
(12:36):
competent but it's still for me it's
masking and doing it is detrimental and
there are times I think when it's it's
good to mask but there there are times
when it's better not to and I think the
times it's better not to far outweigh
the times when it's a good thing and the
(12:57):
last thing I've been kind of trying to
do with unmasking is to reject
normalizing behavior and even though my
my sphere of of
of socializing is very very small I I do
run into this and I read an interesting
article also on Substack it was by
Pascal La
(13:20):
Pascal La Rivier and
she talked about autistic psychotherapy
and I thought it was really interesting
and she talked a bit about the autistic
brain and she said in the article the
autistic brain is hyper hyper everything
hyperconnected hyperlastic and hyper
reactive this leads to hyper sensitivity
(13:44):
hyperpion hypertension hyper fear hyper
memory hyperarning hyper
emotionality and she goes on to say
hyper perception and hyper sensitivity
mean that the brain of autistic person
has to process a lot more information
than that of an illistic person and
that's just another word for
neurotypical
(14:06):
and she goes on to say that the cortex
autistic cortex causes the brain to
perceive stimuli in an intense manner
but also in a somewhat fragmented way
and I found that really interesting and
she says that the perception of
environment by such a brain slightly
varies and is therefore slightly
unstable which I think is accurate and
(14:28):
she quotes an article which I'm going to
read by Markham and Markham that says as
a consequence the autistic person would
remain with a fragmented and amplified
perception of bits and pieces of the
world and I think that that is a good
description of
hyperconivity and how it works and it
can be a strength I mean it definitely
(14:49):
can be a strength like when you're
researching or learning or doing
creative work hyperconivity can be a
strength can also be a problem it's been
a problem for me I think in my writing
the fragmented worldview has been a
problem for me in my writing so I think
that to reject normalizing behavior we
(15:10):
have to be aware that this is not a
subjective difference we're not
subjectively different like
when when I'm standing in the center of
chaos and I'm my processing is shutting
down and I'm unable to think or talk
that's different than getting annoyed
(15:31):
because a family member is playing the
radio too loud but when you talk to to
some people istic people neurotypical
people and you if if you allude to a
situation like that they'll say "Oh I
know just what you mean the other day my
husband had the radio up so loud and I
turned around and snapped at him and I
felt so bad and and I'm not trying to
(15:53):
minimize situations like that i think um
certainly irritability and fighting and
trying to maintain a relationship those
are all difficult things and they're all
worth talking about but it's not the
same as shutting down it's not the same
as having a meltdown it's not the same
as being completely overwhelmed to the
point where you're not processing you've
(16:16):
reached your saturation point for
processing it's very different the thing
is it doesn't necessarily look that
different from the outside sometimes it
does but if we're in in that endurance
mode of masking it might look the same
and so people don't see it and that's a
big problem with autism just in general
that the whole entire which I hate the
DSM5 and what it represents because the
(16:39):
whole
entire paradigm of autism is based on
what people outside us observe like
nothing is based on our inner experience
and that's a huge huge problem luckily
people are beginning to address it but
it's still a problem but I think it's
very very important to reject
normalizing behavior and I think one way
one way I am going to do that do that
(17:01):
because I I'm struggling with that
actually right now doing some better
with some things than others what I the
way I'm going to do it I think is by
trying to learn more about the actual
architecture of the autistic brain
because there are objective differences
between the autistic brain and the
neurotypical brain it's not subjective
it's like you could hang labels like
(17:23):
immature and impulsive and
um fussy and difficult you could hang
those labels on somebody they're
subjective labels based on outside
observation but they don't account for
the structural differences between an
autistic and a holistic brain and and I
(17:44):
don't think you could reduce it all to
science i think experience is huge and I
think talking about our inner experience
and and doing workbooks and validating
it and journaling and understanding
ourselves is just as important as
understanding the science but I think
the science is good too because I think
it's one way you could reject
normalization like when people say to me
(18:06):
everybody's autistic I can say no
actually only 3% of the population is
autistic because you know that's just
just a factoid it's just a statistic but
it it helps it helps to know those
things so I'm going to try a little bit
to learn a bit of the
neurobiology and I actually my
(18:29):
degree my undergraduate degree is
actually science degree but I'm not a
science person so it come does not come
easy for me but I am going to focus on
that because I I think that could help
so I just wanted to share that you know
and just as kind of a recap masking
isn't always bad and people who do not
have the ability to mask suffer greatly
(18:51):
in the world very greatly and we I think
it's important to remember that that for
some people masking is a choice i mean
that was kind of the point of the
article I read for some people it's a
choice sometimes and for some people
it's not a choice at all so and there's
all kinds of shades in between that but
the bottom line is for me I put masking
(19:14):
down as a adaptive mechanism because I
think it is and I think sometimes it's
helpful i think sometimes it's it's a
shield against the world and that it's
good to have so I I don't completely as
much as I hate masking as as much damage
as it has caused me I don't completely
um demonize it because I think it does
(19:36):
have a function like a lot of kind of
adaptive maladaptive things have a
function so secondly unmasking is a good
thing and unmasking isn't necessarily
always about hyper performance it could
be about recognizing limits honoring our
own limitations honoring our own
(19:57):
sensitivities rejecting normalizing
behavior it could be subtle things it
doesn't doesn't have to be performance
related it could be subtle things based
on inner
states and and that's pretty much it i
think
that working to unmask at our own level
like I feel like my level of unmasking
(20:18):
is lower than the level some people talk
about but I think working to unmask at
our own level is highly beneficial and I
think that um it's it's something we
need to keep dialoguing about i think we
need to keep making people aware of our
inner states to the best of our
abilities i I find it really hard but I
think it's worth doing so that's it this
(20:40):
is my my podcast my first podcast
totally dedicated to masking i am going
to have a few more i'm honestly not sure
what I'm doing next time i forgot to
look but um so it'll be a surprise sorry
about that i'm doing the podcast on the
first and third Friday of the month so
you'll see me next month on the first
(21:01):
Friday and if you have any questions
please feel free to contact me leave a
comment or you could contact me on
Substack my Substack is uh
barbaraver.substack.com the name of the
Substack is Writing on the Spectrum i'll
include a link that's a good way to
connect with me if you sign up for my
(21:22):
publication it's free you'll get all the
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blog posts um some are on autism some
are on writing some are on metaphysics
because that's my special interest but
you'll get the blog posts and the media
and everything if you sign up for that
and you can also follow this podcast on
(21:43):
all pretty much all the major podcast
apps if you need close caption you might
want to look at it either on my podcast
site which is autistic
POV.com or look at it on the Podbean app
because I I don't have closed caption on
any other platforms that I'm aware of
(22:04):
i've only been able to set it up for
Podbean so I think that's it best way to
stay in touch is is the newsletter the
Substack and I will see you guys again
in May can't believe I'm saying that and
thank you so much for listening
[Music]
[Music]
(00:06):
welcome to Autistic POV my name is
Barbara Graver and I started this
podcast to share a bit of my journey as
a late diagnosed
autistic hi everybody this is Barbara
Graver thank you for joining me today on
Autistic POV today I wanted to talk
about masking i I'm just actually making
(00:29):
a few observations on masking i do want
to return to this topic at some point
but I just wanted to take kind of a pro
and con approach to it today because
this is something that's come up for me
recently so I have been using a workbook
called the unmasking workbook for
autistic adults it's written by Jessica
(00:52):
Pino who is a licensed uh a licensed
counselor and autistic person and it's a
great workbook i love it i like the way
it's set up i like the way it builds it
builds to this point kind of in the
center where there are two charts that
the author calls a template for change
and I like the way the book is
(01:13):
structured because the way it works is
if you work through each section by the
time you get to this very important part
of the book you you know what you want
to say which is great so I I think it's
very well constructed and this part of
the book it basically has two sections
to it what what do you consider a gift
(01:35):
of autism and what do you need help with
and I like that i like that approach i
filled it in but I found it necessary to
create a third category of things that I
considered adaptive measures so they're
not they're not necessarily things I
want to change some some things around
it I may want to change but they are
(01:56):
adaptive measures and one of the things
I listed in this along along with some
other things we'll talk about at some
other time was masking and I I was kind
of surprised i kind of surprised myself
that I put it there because o unmasking
has been a huge thing for me i I've
suffered a lot through masking but I did
(02:18):
put it there and the reason I did is
because masking can have a benefit i
mean masking can be a layer kind of a
layer between you and the world and
while it is a soul crushing thing
certainly not being able to mask is
(02:39):
highly highly debilitating and it was
interesting because I came across an
article on Substack and and I'll link to
it below the article was about two
sisters two women with autism one was
highly masking and the other couldn't
mask at all and I was surprised by my
reaction to it because to me it wasn't
(03:00):
really an eitheror to me I could
identify with the experience of both of
these people and that's because
sometimes I can mask and sometimes I
can't i have had epic epic meltdowns in
public when unable to mask and at other
times I've endured difficult things
without any kind of incident because of
(03:22):
my ability to basically pretend I was
okay
so I mean that's not good enduring
things is not good usually but
sometimes there isn't another choice and
it is useful to be able to to step
behind masking like kind of seeing it as
a shield where you can step behind it
(03:45):
and you can interact and and I do this
in my everyday life i don't have a lot
of contact with other people in my
everyday life i basically spend time
with my family and my pets and do media
online and have a few online friends and
see autism therapist and that's pretty
much the extent of my my social
(04:06):
involvement but I do leave the house i
leave the house and I interact with
people on a limited kind of superficial
basis and I have stock phrases that I
can use when I'm walking my dog and
someone says hello i have certain things
I'll say about the weather or certain
responses I'll make and they're not
necessarily memorized but they're things
(04:28):
I use over and over again and it's kind
of my way of interacting and that's
masking and it doesn't hurt me to do
that it's not satisfying but it doesn't
hurt me and I kind of feel proud of
myself when I have like one of those
little kind of ordinary exchanges with
someone and I feel like I handle it well
(04:49):
and it doesn't matter that nothing
important is being communicated what
matters is that I'm kind of proud of
myself after I do this and it allows me
to present a a aspect of myself that
people can accept so it can be good and
masking in particular could be good when
it keeps you from um it keeps you from
(05:13):
having a meltdown say that's what this
article on Substack was about i am kind
of all over the place but this article
on Substack the girl said how her sister
who could not mask would have meltdowns
at work and how it was so debilitating
and and I agree with that 100% it is and
I have done that i identified with both
(05:36):
and I think a lot of people probably can
certainly there are people who can't
mask at all and that's very debilitating
i'm not trying to minimize that but I
think that a lot of us have had that
experience of being able to mask and
then not being able to mask and I think
that too is worth looking at so that's
kind of how I look at masking it's not
(05:59):
100% 100% bad but it could lead to some
pretty dark places and I wouldn't want
to pretend
otherwise and unmasking is a good thing
it to me unmasking is a good thing at
this point in my life I am looking at it
in a little bit different way than I
think a lot of people do because I have
(06:20):
kind of a limited involvement in the
world to me masking is not trying to
blend in or trying to fool people or
trying to seem normal i did that i've
done that in my life i did it in school
and interestingly I felt like I
accomplished it like particularly in
high school I felt like I accomplished
it and at great personal cost but now I
(06:43):
look back and I think I I don't really
think I fooled anyone and I I think in
most situations people always perceived
me as awkward and unusual and a little
strange and I was sometimes just kind of
oblivious to that but so I don't think I
was ever really really super successful
with blending in but that's not the kind
(07:05):
of unmasking I'm really worried about
now because I it's not only that I can't
really do it it's that I don't really
want to do it i just don't want to and I
don't have to and I feel really really
lucky that I don't have to
and the way I look at unmasking now is
like simple simple things so one way
I've tried to unmask is by uh
(07:27):
recognizing when something's too much
for me and to not push myself to endure
situations that are overwhelming for me
and another way I've done it is
by not allowing myself to be unduly
influenced by other people's ideas about
my personal preferences and just a
(07:48):
couple examples like one way recognizing
when something's too much for me i did
the taxes this this week and when I did
my taxes I I knew if I tried to we have
a rental unit so there's there's a lot
to that i knew if I tried to do it all
all in one day it would be overwhelming
so I collected all the little pieces of
(08:10):
information I needed and there are a lot
of them over the course of a week and
then I sat down to do it on tax day
which was a mistake but I got through it
i got got through it okay because I had
everything there and my son had helped
me with some of it but I was just washed
out after I did that and even though I
don't consider doing taxes hard I don't
(08:32):
consider it confusing or difficult I
still find it super stressful like any
paperwork I I find stressful so I chose
to not cook that that day i didn't even
make lunch i ordered lunch and I ordered
dinner which I never do i don't do that
routinely but I could have pushed myself
to make the meal I had planned for that
(08:54):
night but I chose not to because I knew
it would be too much i think that's a
form of unmasking because it's a mask to
pretend you could handle something when
you can't that's masking to me and
another thing when I mentioned not being
influenced by other people's perceptions
there are things that bother me like
ceiling lights shining in my eyes and
(09:16):
and various noise different kinds of
noises going on and I used to kind of
internalize people's reaction to that
when they would say "That's ridiculous
there's no reason why you that should
bother you." I would think "You're right
shouldn't bother me i'll just white
knuckle it." And sometimes I could
and sometimes I couldn't but I don't
(09:38):
I'm trying not to do that anymore i'm
trying to tell myself that they don't
understand and that that isn't my
problem so that's another way and and
kind of hand inhand with that like
honoring limits like not attributing
um not
attributing my reactions to bad behavior
(10:02):
or or subjective labels like thinking
I'm picky or I'm fussy or I'm selfish or
I'm um immature like I I try to just
think that this is something that's
overwhelming me and I try to kind of
honor that that this is a limit for me
example is I was making dinner and
(10:23):
everybody in our house we don't eat at
the table we hate to we just I make the
food and they grab it and take it so
somebody was getting food off the stove
and a a pan of corn fell off so the pan
of corn fell off and the person who was
there when it fell started talking about
how this teapot's always in the way and
(10:44):
on and on and another person in the
kitchen started talking about um don't
worry about it it's no big deal and
meanwhile the dog's trying to eat it and
somebody else is saying it won't hurt
him it's good for him it was just like
all this pandemonium was going on and it
was so overwhelming to me and a lot of
(11:05):
times I'll overreact quote overreact to
situation like that and I'll kind of get
shamed a little like it's just corn how
could you overreact like that but it's
not about the corn it's about the chaos
and I'm beginning to kind of see things
like that a little more clearly and
to honor my reaction to it to not to not
(11:28):
demonize my reaction to it to not
mislabel it so I just said "Everything
has to stop i have to clean this up."
And it worked it kind of worked and and
I had a similar situation with not
having been given enough time to do
something
where should I be able to do these tasks
(11:49):
in an hour and get to an appointment on
time should I should should the average
person probably but it it's triggering
for me and I felt it myself getting
triggered and I had no choice i had to
do it but I I was extremely extremely
pressured and triggered and I didn't
quite have a meltdown but I I could have
(12:14):
i was I was getting close like if if
things had started to go wrong I
probably would have and I I don't let
myself blame myself for that i don't
make myself try to pretend I'm good with
this because that's masking i mean it
may be a basic form of masking it's not
masking like going into a board meeting
and making everyone think you're
(12:36):
competent but it's still for me it's
masking and doing it is detrimental and
there are times I think when it's it's
good to mask but there there are times
when it's better not to and I think the
times it's better not to far outweigh
the times when it's a good thing and the
(12:57):
last thing I've been kind of trying to
do with unmasking is to reject
normalizing behavior and even though my
my sphere of of
of socializing is very very small I I do
run into this and I read an interesting
article also on Substack it was by
Pascal La
(13:20):
Pascal La Rivier and
she talked about autistic psychotherapy
and I thought it was really interesting
and she talked a bit about the autistic
brain and she said in the article the
autistic brain is hyper hyper everything
hyperconnected hyperlastic and hyper
reactive this leads to hyper sensitivity
(13:44):
hyperpion hypertension hyper fear hyper
memory hyperarning hyper
emotionality and she goes on to say
hyper perception and hyper sensitivity
mean that the brain of autistic person
has to process a lot more information
than that of an illistic person and
that's just another word for
neurotypical
(14:06):
and she goes on to say that the cortex
autistic cortex causes the brain to
perceive stimuli in an intense manner
but also in a somewhat fragmented way
and I found that really interesting and
she says that the perception of
environment by such a brain slightly
varies and is therefore slightly
unstable which I think is accurate and
(14:28):
she quotes an article which I'm going to
read by Markham and Markham that says as
a consequence the autistic person would
remain with a fragmented and amplified
perception of bits and pieces of the
world and I think that that is a good
description of
hyperconivity and how it works and it
can be a strength I mean it definitely
(14:49):
can be a strength like when you're
researching or learning or doing
creative work hyperconivity can be a
strength can also be a problem it's been
a problem for me I think in my writing
the fragmented worldview has been a
problem for me in my writing so I think
that to reject normalizing behavior we
(15:10):
have to be aware that this is not a
subjective difference we're not
subjectively different like
when when I'm standing in the center of
chaos and I'm my processing is shutting
down and I'm unable to think or talk
that's different than getting annoyed
(15:31):
because a family member is playing the
radio too loud but when you talk to to
some people istic people neurotypical
people and you if if you allude to a
situation like that they'll say "Oh I
know just what you mean the other day my
husband had the radio up so loud and I
turned around and snapped at him and I
felt so bad and and I'm not trying to
(15:53):
minimize situations like that i think um
certainly irritability and fighting and
trying to maintain a relationship those
are all difficult things and they're all
worth talking about but it's not the
same as shutting down it's not the same
as having a meltdown it's not the same
as being completely overwhelmed to the
point where you're not processing you've
(16:16):
reached your saturation point for
processing it's very different the thing
is it doesn't necessarily look that
different from the outside sometimes it
does but if we're in in that endurance
mode of masking it might look the same
and so people don't see it and that's a
big problem with autism just in general
that the whole entire which I hate the
DSM5 and what it represents because the
(16:39):
whole
entire paradigm of autism is based on
what people outside us observe like
nothing is based on our inner experience
and that's a huge huge problem luckily
people are beginning to address it but
it's still a problem but I think it's
very very important to reject
normalizing behavior and I think one way
one way I am going to do that do that
(17:01):
because I I'm struggling with that
actually right now doing some better
with some things than others what I the
way I'm going to do it I think is by
trying to learn more about the actual
architecture of the autistic brain
because there are objective differences
between the autistic brain and the
neurotypical brain it's not subjective
it's like you could hang labels like
(17:23):
immature and impulsive and
um fussy and difficult you could hang
those labels on somebody they're
subjective labels based on outside
observation but they don't account for
the structural differences between an
autistic and a holistic brain and and I
(17:44):
don't think you could reduce it all to
science i think experience is huge and I
think talking about our inner experience
and and doing workbooks and validating
it and journaling and understanding
ourselves is just as important as
understanding the science but I think
the science is good too because I think
it's one way you could reject
normalization like when people say to me
(18:06):
everybody's autistic I can say no
actually only 3% of the population is
autistic because you know that's just
just a factoid it's just a statistic but
it it helps it helps to know those
things so I'm going to try a little bit
to learn a bit of the
neurobiology and I actually my
(18:29):
degree my undergraduate degree is
actually science degree but I'm not a
science person so it come does not come
easy for me but I am going to focus on
that because I I think that could help
so I just wanted to share that you know
and just as kind of a recap masking
isn't always bad and people who do not
have the ability to mask suffer greatly
(18:51):
in the world very greatly and we I think
it's important to remember that that for
some people masking is a choice i mean
that was kind of the point of the
article I read for some people it's a
choice sometimes and for some people
it's not a choice at all so and there's
all kinds of shades in between that but
the bottom line is for me I put masking
(19:14):
down as a adaptive mechanism because I
think it is and I think sometimes it's
helpful i think sometimes it's it's a
shield against the world and that it's
good to have so I I don't completely as
much as I hate masking as as much damage
as it has caused me I don't completely
um demonize it because I think it does
(19:36):
have a function like a lot of kind of
adaptive maladaptive things have a
function so secondly unmasking is a good
thing and unmasking isn't necessarily
always about hyper performance it could
be about recognizing limits honoring our
own limitations honoring our own
(19:57):
sensitivities rejecting normalizing
behavior it could be subtle things it
doesn't doesn't have to be performance
related it could be subtle things based
on inner
states and and that's pretty much it i
think
that working to unmask at our own level
like I feel like my level of unmasking
(20:18):
is lower than the level some people talk
about but I think working to unmask at
our own level is highly beneficial and I
think that um it's it's something we
need to keep dialoguing about i think we
need to keep making people aware of our
inner states to the best of our
abilities i I find it really hard but I
think it's worth doing so that's it this
(20:40):
is my my podcast my first podcast
totally dedicated to masking i am going
to have a few more i'm honestly not sure
what I'm doing next time i forgot to
look but um so it'll be a surprise sorry
about that i'm doing the podcast on the
first and third Friday of the month so
you'll see me next month on the first
(21:01):
Friday and if you have any questions
please feel free to contact me leave a
comment or you could contact me on
Substack my Substack is uh
barbaraver.substack.com the name of the
Substack is Writing on the Spectrum i'll
include a link that's a good way to
connect with me if you sign up for my
(21:22):
publication it's free you'll get all the
all the podcasts you'll get all of my
blog posts um some are on autism some
are on writing some are on metaphysics
because that's my special interest but
you'll get the blog posts and the media
and everything if you sign up for that
and you can also follow this podcast on
(21:43):
all pretty much all the major podcast
apps if you need close caption you might
want to look at it either on my podcast
site which is autistic
POV.com or look at it on the Podbean app
because I I don't have closed caption on
any other platforms that I'm aware of
(22:04):
i've only been able to set it up for
Podbean so I think that's it best way to
stay in touch is is the newsletter the
Substack and I will see you guys again
in May can't believe I'm saying that and
thank you so much for listening
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