July 5, 2025 • 12 mins
This is the intro to a new series where I’ll be exploring a theory of autism called monotropism from the perspective of an absolute beginner. I found out about the monotropic model of autism a few days ago and have just begun to learn about it.
I don't know a lot as of yet (aside from my own lived experience as a person who definitely is monotropic) but I am intrigued and want to learn more and thought others might want to learn along with me.
If you like my content, please follow the podcast!
For more on monotropism, please visit monotropism.org and / or follow the podcast and we explore this topic.
Check out my blog Writing On The Spectrum here: BarbaraGraver.substack.com or here: WritingOnTheSpectrum.com
Episode 14 TranscriptFull transcript below. To access closed captioning (or the transcript is cut off), please listen via the podbean app or at AutisticPOV.com (https://www.autisticpov.com/).
Welcome to Autistic POV. My name is Barbara Graver and I started this podcast to share a bit of my journey as a late diagnosed autistic. Hi everybody, this is Barbara Graver. Welcome to today's episode of Autistic POV. Today we're going to be talking about an alternate theory of autism that's called monotropism. 0:32 And I found out about this theory just recently, actually, on Substack. Someone I follow on Substack, and now I can't remember who had mentioned it, that they were interested in it. And it was the first I'd heard of it. So I found the website, which is monotropism.org, and I began to read about it. 0:53 And it really, really resonated with me. And basically the idea, and I'm going to read from the website, the idea is that monotropic minds have their attention pulled very strongly towards a small number of interests. I'm paraphrasing. at a given time. And this leaves fewer resources for other processes. So in other words, 1:18 you are so focused on your special interests that it affects the way you function in other arenas, which is so true of me. Very, very true of me. Very true of other people I know who are autistic too. And the Creators of this theory believe that this idea of monotropism can explain directly 1:42 or indirectly all of the features commonly associated with autism. And it's interesting. To me, it's interesting because I had been actually thinking about this on my own. I'd been thinking a lot ever since I charted my own autistic traits, which I talk about in the previous episode, actually a couple times in a couple previous episodes. 2:08 Ever since I had done that, I'd been interested in this idea that hyper focus, special interests, intense attention is really, really key in the way autism presents in me. And this was when I rated my autistic traits. I did a chart kind of loosely adapted on the DSM-5. 2:32 And when I rated my traits, hyper focus was the most prominent trait I had. I actually gave that a 10, which is maybe I could have gone with nine, but I gave that a 10. Whereas my other traits, I had a few other traits that were seven and eights and then others that were quite low. 2:52 So the idea of monotropism really interested me because that's my major trait. Now there may be other people who feel their major trait is not described by hyperfocus who might not feel this kind of resonance with the idea that I do. But to me, it made a lot of sense. 3:10 And they do say that you don't need to accept it as a general theory of autism, that it could still be useful for you. So the more I thought about it, the more I thought that I think they have a point. And the creators of the theory are Dina Murray, who is deceased, and Wynne Lawson. 3:28 These are both PhDs. I think Dina Murray was... specialized in laMark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
[Music]
(00:06):
Welcome to Autistic POV. My name is
Barbara Graver and I started this
podcast to share a bit of my journey as
a late diagnosed autistic.
Hi everybody, this is Barbara Graver.
Welcome to today's episode of Autistic
POV. Today we're going to be talking
(00:27):
about an alternate theory of autism
that's called monotropism.
And I found about out about this theory
just recently actually on Substack.
Someone I follow on Substack and now I
can't remember who had mentioned it that
they were interested in it and it was
the first I'd heard of it. So I found
(00:49):
the website which is monotropism.org or
and I began to read about it and it
really really resonated with me and it's
interesting to me it's interesting
because I had been actually thinking
about this on my own. I'd been thinking
a lot ever since I charted my own
autistic traits which I talk about in
(01:10):
previous episode actually a couple times
a couple previous episodes.
Ever since I had done that, I've been
interested in this idea that hyperfocus,
special interest, intense attention is
really, really key in the way autism
presents in me. And this was when I
(01:34):
rated my autistic traits. I did a chart
kind of loosely adapted on the DSM5. And
when I rated my traits, hyperfocus
was the most prominent trait I had. I
actually gave that a 10, which you maybe
I could have gone with nine, but I gave
that a 10. Whereas my other traits, I
(01:55):
had a few other traits that were seven
and eights and then others that were
quite low. So the the idea of
monotropism really interested me because
that's my major trait. Now there may be
other people who feel their major trait
is not described by hyperfocus who might
not feel this kind of resonance with the
idea that I do but to me it made a lot
(02:17):
of sense and basically the idea and I'm
going to read from the website the idea
is that monotropic minds have their
attention pulled very strongly towards a
small number of interests I'm
paraphrasing at a given time and this
leaves fewer resources for other
(02:38):
processes. So in other words, you are so
focused on your special interests that
it affects the way you function in other
arenas, which is so true of me, very
very true of me, very true of other
people I know who are autistic too. And
the creators of this theory believe that
(03:00):
this idea of monotropism can explain
directly or indirectly
all of the features commonly associated
with autism. So I found that really
interesting and they do say that you
don't need to accept it as a general
theory of autism that it could still be
useful for you. So, the more I thought
(03:21):
about it, the more I thought that I
think they have a point. And the
creators of the theory are Dena Murray,
who is deceased, and Wen Lawson. These
are both both PhDs. I think Dina Murray
was specialized in language, where Wen
Lawson, I believe, has a PhD in
psychology. They both have academic
(03:43):
credentials, and I I know that when
Lawson, at least, is definitely
autistic. So this kind of goes with the
idea of us helping to determine the the
paradigm regarding autism. So I I
thought about some of my other traits,
my issues with communication. Also I I
(04:06):
could connect the the issues I have with
communication to the idea of being
monotropic
and other things such pattern
recognition. And I I think also can be
related to focus or attention.
Sensitivities to me seem like a little
more of a stretch. I felt that you could
(04:27):
say that people have sensitivities
because they're focused on certain
things, certain tactile things. I I'm
not sure that that always explains it,
but I do think hyposensitivities are
very much explained by monotropism. For
other in other words, if you're working
at something like if you're working or
(04:49):
researching regarding one of your
special interests, you may not notice um
you may not notice if you have to go to
the bathroom. You may not notice if
you're hungry or thirsty. You may just
kind of block everything out. And I do
this. I'll even if I'm writing or or
doing something special interest
related, someone can come into my study
(05:11):
and actually start to talk to me and
I'll stop what I'm doing apparently and
I'll look at them but my attention is
still on the task and they might talk
for several minutes and I'll say, "Wait,
stop. I didn't get any of that because
my focus is still on that task." So
that's that's a a concrete example of
how that affects me. And it also affects
(05:33):
me socially uh to a great degree as far
as relationships. I'm really only able
to engage with other people who share
interests. And if I have friendships,
which I've mentioned before, where
interests shift, it's very hard for me
to maintain the friendship. It doesn't
mean I don't care about the person
(05:54):
anymore. It just makes it very hard for
me to engage with them, which makes
friendship very difficult for most
people. Most people can't can't
understand that. So definitely it plays
a big part in my life. My thinking on
this is that there is there is ne not
(06:15):
necessarily one single answer for
everything. I think this does a pretty
good job. It certainly does a better job
than the whole disorder theory, but I'm
not 100% convinced it explains all
issues with sensitivities, uh,
repetitive motor, but I haven't gotten
more too far into it either. I am I'm
taking a course on it and I'm going to
(06:36):
learn more. So, my thoughts on this
might change as time passes, but but I'm
intrigued. I'm definitely intrigued. And
I'm also intrigued by the idea of focus,
like that vertical focus. And I think
one thing for me that I've been
exploring is the connection between
psychic abilities and autism. And when
you think in terms of focus, like that
(06:58):
vertical focus, that actually makes a
lot of sense because you will even hear
mystics talk about there could be kind
of diffuse focus or there could be a
vertical focus. And that's kind of the
access between the supernatural and the
mundane. So I find that really really
interesting. And one thing I really
really like about it is it does not
pathize.
(07:20):
And on the website, and I'm gonna learn
more about this, I'm going to do a few
episodes on this topic because I find it
very compelling. And this is just my
first. This is just my intro.
But on the website, they do talk about
monotropism
as a theory and monotropism as a trait.
So they consider it a blanket theory for
(07:44):
autism and and I would say just on this
first pass, it's probably better than
the other theories I've read. But I
think as a trait definitely it's it's
really hugely interesting and I like the
idea that it's not pathizing
because the way having special interests
is explained by the DSM5 and
(08:07):
psychologist is as restrictive and
repetitive interests which sounds so um
so clinical and so disordered but it's
not like that at all. If you experience
it, you know that you know that you're
passionate and that you're moved by
things and that you're articulate when
you talk about different things and in
(08:29):
the flow and it's it's a vibrant really
expansive way of being. It's not narrow
and restrictive at all. So, I do like
the idea because it's my predominant
autistic trait and possibly it's
everyone's predominant autistic trait.
I'm not sure yet. I'm just getting
started here, but I really like the idea
(08:51):
that it's taking that trait and refining
it. And and
it's important, I think, because
other people, people we may now begin to
refer to as polyropic who have a
diffuse, spread out, more superficial
interest of everything as opposed to
monotropic people who have an intense
(09:12):
focus, deep interest.
Polyropic people don't get the passion.
They don't get the dedication. They
don't get the obsession. They find it uh
off-putting sometimes. They find it
boring. They find it um pathological.
They do because it's not their
experience. So, I love the idea of
(09:34):
refraraming that as something affirming,
as a passion, as a good thing, as an
alternate way of thinking and being,
because I think that's what autism is,
whether monotropism
is the explanation or not. I'm going to
kind of take a dive into that and decide
(09:55):
what I think and and share it with you
guys in the next few episodes. But
whether that is the correct paradigm or
not, I think what we're all beginning to
realize is that autism is not a
disorder. It's not a deficit. It's a
difference and it's an important
difference and I think it's a difference
that has benefited society greatly and I
(10:16):
think we'll go continue to go on and do
that. So this is just kind of my
introduction. I'm going to be doing a
few episodes on the topic of
monotropism. I don't know much yet, but
I thought you guys might be interested
in learning along with me. So, I will be
back in uh in a couple weeks. I'm trying
to do the first and third Friday.
(10:38):
Sometimes I'm off. The first Friday here
in the US was Fourth of July. I don't
celebrate it, but my dog is petrified,
so doing a podcast on the 4th of July.
Aside from the fact that you would hear
explosions in the background, doing a
podcast on the 4th of July was not
possible. So, I'm doing it today on
Saturday. So, this is not the first
Friday of the month, obviously. And I I
(11:01):
I thought of just saying I'll do the
podcast twice a month, but it it's good
at least if I have the expectation of
the first and third Friday because even
if I miss it, it keeps me kind of close.
So, anyhow, I will be um I will be doing
another podcast this month hopefully on
the third Friday or very close. And we
will be continuing with the topic of
(11:23):
monotropism. I'm guessing at least for
the next probably two or three episodes,
we'll see how it goes. I'll see what I
learn and I'll see what I have to share.
And as always, I'd love to know what you
think. Please feel free to comment
wherever you listen. And also, I will be
sharing this in my blog writing
onthespectrum.com.
(11:44):
So, please feel free to check that out.
You can subscribe to that and get all my
media. You could get my metaphysical
posts, my special interests, my
monotropic interest. You could get my
autistic POV podcast episodes. And you
could get excerpts from my fiction too
if you subscribe. But you can also read
it. You don't have to subscribe to read
(12:05):
it. And that's writing on
thespectctrum.com.
I'll be talking about monotropism also
on the blog in addition to on the
podcast. So please do feel free to check
that out. And if you like my content,
please consider following the podcast.
I'm still kind of trying to get it off
the ground and I could use all the
support I could get. And I hope you will
(12:27):
join me in the upcoming episodes as we
dive deeper into the topic of
monotropism.
So that's it for today and this is
Barbara Graver of Autistic POV and I
want to thank you very much for
listening.
(12:49):
[Music]
[Music]
(00:06):
Welcome to Autistic POV. My name is
Barbara Graver and I started this
podcast to share a bit of my journey as
a late diagnosed autistic.
Hi everybody, this is Barbara Graver.
Welcome to today's episode of Autistic
POV. Today we're going to be talking
(00:27):
about an alternate theory of autism
that's called monotropism.
And I found about out about this theory
just recently actually on Substack.
Someone I follow on Substack and now I
can't remember who had mentioned it that
they were interested in it and it was
the first I'd heard of it. So I found
(00:49):
the website which is monotropism.org or
and I began to read about it and it
really really resonated with me and it's
interesting to me it's interesting
because I had been actually thinking
about this on my own. I'd been thinking
a lot ever since I charted my own
autistic traits which I talk about in
(01:10):
previous episode actually a couple times
a couple previous episodes.
Ever since I had done that, I've been
interested in this idea that hyperfocus,
special interest, intense attention is
really, really key in the way autism
presents in me. And this was when I
(01:34):
rated my autistic traits. I did a chart
kind of loosely adapted on the DSM5. And
when I rated my traits, hyperfocus
was the most prominent trait I had. I
actually gave that a 10, which you maybe
I could have gone with nine, but I gave
that a 10. Whereas my other traits, I
(01:55):
had a few other traits that were seven
and eights and then others that were
quite low. So the the idea of
monotropism really interested me because
that's my major trait. Now there may be
other people who feel their major trait
is not described by hyperfocus who might
not feel this kind of resonance with the
idea that I do but to me it made a lot
(02:17):
of sense and basically the idea and I'm
going to read from the website the idea
is that monotropic minds have their
attention pulled very strongly towards a
small number of interests I'm
paraphrasing at a given time and this
leaves fewer resources for other
(02:38):
processes. So in other words, you are so
focused on your special interests that
it affects the way you function in other
arenas, which is so true of me, very
very true of me, very true of other
people I know who are autistic too. And
the creators of this theory believe that
(03:00):
this idea of monotropism can explain
directly or indirectly
all of the features commonly associated
with autism. So I found that really
interesting and they do say that you
don't need to accept it as a general
theory of autism that it could still be
useful for you. So, the more I thought
(03:21):
about it, the more I thought that I
think they have a point. And the
creators of the theory are Dena Murray,
who is deceased, and Wen Lawson. These
are both both PhDs. I think Dina Murray
was specialized in language, where Wen
Lawson, I believe, has a PhD in
psychology. They both have academic
(03:43):
credentials, and I I know that when
Lawson, at least, is definitely
autistic. So this kind of goes with the
idea of us helping to determine the the
paradigm regarding autism. So I I
thought about some of my other traits,
my issues with communication. Also I I
(04:06):
could connect the the issues I have with
communication to the idea of being
monotropic
and other things such pattern
recognition. And I I think also can be
related to focus or attention.
Sensitivities to me seem like a little
more of a stretch. I felt that you could
(04:27):
say that people have sensitivities
because they're focused on certain
things, certain tactile things. I I'm
not sure that that always explains it,
but I do think hyposensitivities are
very much explained by monotropism. For
other in other words, if you're working
at something like if you're working or
(04:49):
researching regarding one of your
special interests, you may not notice um
you may not notice if you have to go to
the bathroom. You may not notice if
you're hungry or thirsty. You may just
kind of block everything out. And I do
this. I'll even if I'm writing or or
doing something special interest
related, someone can come into my study
(05:11):
and actually start to talk to me and
I'll stop what I'm doing apparently and
I'll look at them but my attention is
still on the task and they might talk
for several minutes and I'll say, "Wait,
stop. I didn't get any of that because
my focus is still on that task." So
that's that's a a concrete example of
how that affects me. And it also affects
(05:33):
me socially uh to a great degree as far
as relationships. I'm really only able
to engage with other people who share
interests. And if I have friendships,
which I've mentioned before, where
interests shift, it's very hard for me
to maintain the friendship. It doesn't
mean I don't care about the person
(05:54):
anymore. It just makes it very hard for
me to engage with them, which makes
friendship very difficult for most
people. Most people can't can't
understand that. So definitely it plays
a big part in my life. My thinking on
this is that there is there is ne not
(06:15):
necessarily one single answer for
everything. I think this does a pretty
good job. It certainly does a better job
than the whole disorder theory, but I'm
not 100% convinced it explains all
issues with sensitivities, uh,
repetitive motor, but I haven't gotten
more too far into it either. I am I'm
taking a course on it and I'm going to
(06:36):
learn more. So, my thoughts on this
might change as time passes, but but I'm
intrigued. I'm definitely intrigued. And
I'm also intrigued by the idea of focus,
like that vertical focus. And I think
one thing for me that I've been
exploring is the connection between
psychic abilities and autism. And when
you think in terms of focus, like that
(06:58):
vertical focus, that actually makes a
lot of sense because you will even hear
mystics talk about there could be kind
of diffuse focus or there could be a
vertical focus. And that's kind of the
access between the supernatural and the
mundane. So I find that really really
interesting. And one thing I really
really like about it is it does not
pathize.
(07:20):
And on the website, and I'm gonna learn
more about this, I'm going to do a few
episodes on this topic because I find it
very compelling. And this is just my
first. This is just my intro.
But on the website, they do talk about
monotropism
as a theory and monotropism as a trait.
So they consider it a blanket theory for
(07:44):
autism and and I would say just on this
first pass, it's probably better than
the other theories I've read. But I
think as a trait definitely it's it's
really hugely interesting and I like the
idea that it's not pathizing
because the way having special interests
is explained by the DSM5 and
(08:07):
psychologist is as restrictive and
repetitive interests which sounds so um
so clinical and so disordered but it's
not like that at all. If you experience
it, you know that you know that you're
passionate and that you're moved by
things and that you're articulate when
you talk about different things and in
(08:29):
the flow and it's it's a vibrant really
expansive way of being. It's not narrow
and restrictive at all. So, I do like
the idea because it's my predominant
autistic trait and possibly it's
everyone's predominant autistic trait.
I'm not sure yet. I'm just getting
started here, but I really like the idea
(08:51):
that it's taking that trait and refining
it. And and
it's important, I think, because
other people, people we may now begin to
refer to as polyropic who have a
diffuse, spread out, more superficial
interest of everything as opposed to
monotropic people who have an intense
(09:12):
focus, deep interest.
Polyropic people don't get the passion.
They don't get the dedication. They
don't get the obsession. They find it uh
off-putting sometimes. They find it
boring. They find it um pathological.
They do because it's not their
experience. So, I love the idea of
(09:34):
refraraming that as something affirming,
as a passion, as a good thing, as an
alternate way of thinking and being,
because I think that's what autism is,
whether monotropism
is the explanation or not. I'm going to
kind of take a dive into that and decide
(09:55):
what I think and and share it with you
guys in the next few episodes. But
whether that is the correct paradigm or
not, I think what we're all beginning to
realize is that autism is not a
disorder. It's not a deficit. It's a
difference and it's an important
difference and I think it's a difference
that has benefited society greatly and I
(10:16):
think we'll go continue to go on and do
that. So this is just kind of my
introduction. I'm going to be doing a
few episodes on the topic of
monotropism. I don't know much yet, but
I thought you guys might be interested
in learning along with me. So, I will be
back in uh in a couple weeks. I'm trying
to do the first and third Friday.
(10:38):
Sometimes I'm off. The first Friday here
in the US was Fourth of July. I don't
celebrate it, but my dog is petrified,
so doing a podcast on the 4th of July.
Aside from the fact that you would hear
explosions in the background, doing a
podcast on the 4th of July was not
possible. So, I'm doing it today on
Saturday. So, this is not the first
Friday of the month, obviously. And I I
(11:01):
I thought of just saying I'll do the
podcast twice a month, but it it's good
at least if I have the expectation of
the first and third Friday because even
if I miss it, it keeps me kind of close.
So, anyhow, I will be um I will be doing
another podcast this month hopefully on
the third Friday or very close. And we
will be continuing with the topic of
(11:23):
monotropism. I'm guessing at least for
the next probably two or three episodes,
we'll see how it goes. I'll see what I
learn and I'll see what I have to share.
And as always, I'd love to know what you
think. Please feel free to comment
wherever you listen. And also, I will be
sharing this in my blog writing
onthespectrum.com.
(11:44):
So, please feel free to check that out.
You can subscribe to that and get all my
media. You could get my metaphysical
posts, my special interests, my
monotropic interest. You could get my
autistic POV podcast episodes. And you
could get excerpts from my fiction too
if you subscribe. But you can also read
it. You don't have to subscribe to read
(12:05):
it. And that's writing on
thespectctrum.com.
I'll be talking about monotropism also
on the blog in addition to on the
podcast. So please do feel free to check
that out. And if you like my content,
please consider following the podcast.
I'm still kind of trying to get it off
the ground and I could use all the
support I could get. And I hope you will
(12:27):
join me in the upcoming episodes as we
dive deeper into the topic of
monotropism.
So that's it for today and this is
Barbara Graver of Autistic POV and I
want to thank you very much for
listening.
(12:49):
[Music]
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