May 8, 2025 • 39 mins
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Slow conversations that we have about our own autism with lots of silences. (edited out here)
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Jules
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Spectrum Voices (00:00):
We speak our words, we listen, we speak our words,
(00:06):
we listen, we speak our words,we listen, we speak our words.
We listen.
Hi there.
Every Sunday group of
Jules-AutisticRadio.com (00:20):
autistic people get together and drop in.
It's an informal group.
Um, but some of thethings that people say.
Deserve a bigger audience.
So they give us permission for usto put them in a, an edited reel.
And that's what we are here for.
Today's edited reel of the conversationsthat we have about our own autism.
(00:43):
Cheers.
Enjoy.
Nicola-AutisticRadio.com (00:45):
I think everybody sounding amazing tonight.
Today actually.
Spectrum Voices (00:49):
Melissa Lewis.
Nicola-AutisticRadio.com: That's a good word. (00:51):
undefined
It sounds like it'ssomething like honeyed.
Jules-AutisticRadio.com (00:55):
Wow.
That is exactly what it means.
Melu.
Nicola-AutisticRadio.com (00:58):
Cool.
Jules-AutisticRadio.com (01:00):
I have to say I, I don't feel as though my voice is
up to speed at the moment because I'vegot a stinking cold and I've had a few
days of, uh, taking, um, cough medicineso I can hear when I breathe in that
little rasp coming and I might cough.
During the conversation,
Raymond-AutisticRadio.com (01:18):
I thought I've detected a bit of a nasal thing there.
I've just been playing that, youknow, traditional autistic game
of, um, hunt the old means cable.
And batteries.
So just trying to remember where inthe house it was and if it's still
there, which leads to disturbing loadsof dust, so I might end up sneezing
(01:38):
at some point in the next half hour.
Who knows?
Jules-AutisticRadio.com (01:43):
Just when we were setting up this, a new guest was popping
in, somebody whose voice won't appear,and they were saying that where they are.
Things are getting reallytough at the moment.
And all the news at the moment is inAustralia, in New Zealand, in America,
all these different countries whereautism has been part of the scene.
(02:09):
And the neurodivergent modelhas, has tried to be placed
out there by autistic people.
It, it feels as though there's a pendulumbacklash against all those white.
English speaking countries and thepeople who have pushed and and made
things happen over the last decades.
(02:32):
Are the people taking the brunt of this?
Raymond-AutisticRadio.com (02:34):
Is it purely that community, Joel, or is it
generally disability or things thatdemand, you know, high cost, social,
what's the word I'm looking for?
Funding?
Jules-AutisticRadio.com: Yeah, I think you're right. (02:46):
undefined
It is the disability community,but at the moment it appears.
Well, it may just be my feed.
It may just be the kind of things Inotice, but the neurodiversity one is
the one where they can actually pointand say, that's not disabled enough.
Or there's too many of you people.
(03:08):
So the culture war does appearto have grabbed onto that.
There's been some statements bythe, the health guy in the United
States to say that he will.
Explain what the Euro environmentalcauses of autism are in September.
(03:29):
So we are, we are back to the old ideasaround autism being caused by something.
If you remember, back to autismsupposedly being caused by vaccines.
He's an anti-vaxxer.
So we are back in that kind of world.
It does feel as though autism is,is picked up and neurodiversity
(03:50):
and A DHD is, is picked up asa, at the front of it, you know,
Raymond-AutisticRadio.com (03:57):
so the internet wasn't the cause then very droll.
Nicola-AutisticRadio.com (04:02):
I was thinking as well that there's a part
of, there is going to be big ripplesas the understanding and awareness.
That has been being cultivated in certainareas of, like, around autism, then
ripples out into the kind of like wider,like consciousness, the same as what's
(04:25):
going on with like, like what's goingon for trans people just now as well.
There's been really a like, um,there's like really deep and nuanced
conversations and there's a lot offactual information that, um, like we, you
know, we've come to understand that is.
Kind of heading through someof the kind of loud and really
(04:50):
privileged kind of voice pieces in thecollective as well, and I feel like there.
There does have to be a bit about, youknow, people need to get a chance to
kinda catch up and ask questions as well.
And there's a, an opportunity for,for a lot of people to learn and, um,
learn about autism in the way thatlike, you know, we have, and yeah.
(05:15):
So I don't, I have to, I feel like.
I look around and I just feel likeeverything wants me to be so scared.
Everything on, like any news, any kindof media, everybody wants me to be angry,
outraged, and scared, and I'm like, butlike you tell the guy down the road about
autism and he's gonna maybe say somethingthat's just like, you know, out of tune.
(05:35):
But maybe if he is, he's got a chanceto like learn and go, oh, I didn't
know about this and that, you know?
Then reality kinda shifts understanding.
Raymond-AutisticRadio.com (05:46):
Yeah, that conversation challenges the powers
that be, and so they want to stiflethe conversation, but like how they
used to do it with anybody who foughtfor civil rights, you know, you stunt
making them into enemies, you know, likepinko Commies or, and even feminists,
if you go back to suffragettes, youknow, there'll be a, a press kind of
(06:09):
orchestrated press media campaign too.
People into bogey.
Men or women or people or just bogies.
So scapegoats.
So it's an old, old story and it'sjust this kinda historical phase now, I
think where the resistance has to get,well, not resistance, you know, hate
(06:33):
identities in that sense, but there's akind of, what's the word I'm looking for?
That political engagementis politicization really.
What's happening?
It's like these people aren'tgoing to take care of you.
So it was hope they would, andthey maybe still can, and that's
(06:54):
kinda conversation, I think.
So what you're saying about theconversation with anybody in down the
street, you know, has to be engaged with.
It came up when I was really listeningto Lucy's, uh, podcast, well not Lucy's
podcast, but the conversation with Lucy.
That engagement with peopleout in the street, as it were.
Jules-AutisticRadio.com (07:16):
I'm happy for us to call that Lucy's podcast.
I mean, that miniseries, I,I, it's, she's the star of it.
It, what's interesting to me is thatwe actually have, as a community,
as an autistic community, more toolsnow, and we have more information
now and we are further along.
(07:39):
So at the same time that there's thisculture war backlash, we ourselves have
a better handle on our own identity.
So even though we may have to be alittle bit more under the radar in
lots of things and not push things tojust provoke and find more subversive
(08:02):
ways through, it feels to me that wehave the tools of understanding better.
I don't think a man like me who, youknow, identified as autistic in their
fifties 10 years ago, would've had thesame tools as somebody identifying now.
So I, I see there as being a real lotof hope here and a lot of, a lot more
(08:28):
supportive spaces within the autisticcommunity than there used to be.
There used to be this.
Cliquey orthodoxy stuff, and youcan, you can transcend that now.
Raymond-AutisticRadio.com (08:41):
Yeah.
Every movement has its hardcoreactivists at the beginning, and they're
kind of, um, as you say, cliquey ish.
Not, not that they desire to be cliquey.
They're just, you know, unusual fortheir time and then it becomes, that
orthodoxy spreads out and ripples out, assaid, to become everyone's conversation.
(09:01):
Yeah.
Nicola-AutisticRadio.com (09:02):
I think what I think Ji talked about scapegoats
and it, it does really feel like that.
And I think that in, like, I feel like inschools there's such limited resources.
Um, and like poverty kind of affectsabsolutely everybody and I feel that.
(09:24):
Some, some kids are, are identifiedas autistic, some aren't.
Some, um, are strugglingfor different reasons.
And I think when there's that sense ofscarcity happening like we are being fed
when they're actually, it's an artificial,like deliberately constructed kind of
scarcity, um, we are all left feelinglike our needs are kind of coming at the
(09:47):
expense of other peoples all the time.
When.
This is like, and it kind of takes theheat away from people, you know, really
looking at austerity and really lookingat like, um, the economy and the decisions
that are being made at our expense.
Raymond-AutisticRadio.com: Definitely that might bring back (10:05):
undefined
that class war kind of analysis.
Who knows?
You know, 'cause you don't, thatscarcity mindset just puts people
against each other, doesn't it?
Nicola-AutisticRadio.com (10:18):
And it's not even looking back.
'cause this isn't about just like,you know, working class people
being resentful of middle class.
This is like billionaire class.
Like people, I think there was arenot, some celebrities apparently
launched a bunch of women in thisspace and they floated around and
were like, oh, we're so feminist now.
And it's like, imagine wasting thatmuch money when there's like, like.
(10:41):
Hit like, not apparently not enough foodslike in Gaza or wherever it is, just
like there shouldn't be, we, we shouldn'thave that sort of inequality going on.
Surely.
Raymond-AutisticRadio.com (10:52):
Yeah.
But the, the media canbe a quagmire as well.
Listening to all that, that stuff, youknow, which has fed to us really spooned.
'cause somebody I saw reacting to thatnews said, well, look at the way these
women who went there are being treated.
You know, like men who did it,like, you know, William Shatner,
celebrities like that weren't, youknow, uh, lampoon or criticized.
(11:16):
And you can see that there is afeminist argument there that is
because women celebrities did it,there were more figures of fun.
Do you see what I mean?
Nicola-AutisticRadio.com (11:24):
I just feel like they were sent there.
Do you know?
Like they were, I wasn't like,it doesn't matter who was.
Somebody's paid for that to happen.
Somebody's like, put all of that, likewanting to put all that out there and
it's just like, oh, let them eat cake.
Raymond-AutisticRadio.com (11:39):
Yeah.
What's that old cliche?
Bread and circuses?
Nicola-AutisticRadio.com: Yeah, absolutely. (11:44):
undefined
And it's like, I think all the,it's all this sort of shock
stuff, all this shocking news.
Like it can just, especially when they're,you know, the, like that RFK stuff, it's
like horrifying for people to see and.
Like, it just makes people feel that like,you know, it's not safe out there in the
(12:06):
world and that people are like awful.
And just feel like that, like the, whenI have been out, when I'm connected to
like, like the, the community spaces thatI'm, that that's not what I'm seeing.
And there's like, it's not thehumans that I know and I keep
just trying to focus on that.
Raymond-AutisticRadio.com (12:26):
Now that's good and very important.
The real world matters, you know, incomparison to the spoonfed media garbage.
That is part of what makes us all uneasy.
Jules-AutisticRadio.com (12:38):
I noticed there's a few people texting, so just
to remind texters that if they putthings down in text, then they will
be read out, but they'll be read outin such a way that they don't get
identified and they won't be compromised.
And we can always edit out.
We are not live.
(12:59):
I remember one of our earliercontributors, they were with autistic
radio for a couple of years, and howthey came to find us was because on
Quora they put out a post saying,are we getting in our own way?
(13:19):
And it was a comment on autistic advocacy.
That the way advocates were addressingthe problem sometimes were so much
in the, here is my trauma narrativeand protest and anger narrative that
(13:42):
it was, it was just bouncing off.
The professionals were not in anyway willing to take that on board.
Maybe that's where we're headingback to if we're not careful.
I've seen some stuff on LinkedIn that'svery well measured, but I've also
(14:03):
seen some stuff that is basically justmoaning and there are places to moan.
You know, this might be one of them,but we have to be quite measured
and cautious and we can really.
Take control of the narrativeagainst some of the madness.
(14:26):
If, if we behave and communicate in, ina kind of measured and thoughtful way.
That's my take on it.
Raymond-AutisticRadio.com (14:38):
Yeah.
If, if we're, if people want to proposean inclusive world, and I think you
have, approach it with inclusivity.
Open, you know, combative, it's fine.
You know, sometimes you have to beassertive, but it can lead to a lot
of problems and it's playing the game.
(15:03):
A game you might not want to play,
Kate-AutisticRadio.com (15:05):
I must admit.
I agree.
Evidently, I do things differently in myprofession, but you can't push someone.
To do anything in anyone in, in any space.
I often use the example of performancedevelopment in jobs and your evaluations.
(15:27):
It's like, it's like we're notallowed to make mistakes anymore,
that there's one perfect type ofperson in the world, which is just,
Spectrum Voices (15:37):
yeah,
Kate-AutisticRadio.com (15:38):
I can't wrap my head around some of the best.
Inventions in the worldwere made through mistakes.
Some of the best medicalinterventions and, and drugs
have been made through mistakes.
Mistakes shouldn't be seenas awful things that we do.
It's human nature, butwe've become so risk averse.
(15:59):
It's, yeah, it's, it's lost the humanity,but no one likes things forced on them.
No one like to feel stupid.
Being late diagnosed myself, I'm quitesick of feeling stupid, especially with
my disc calculator, but if you put ademand on someone, they won't do it.
(16:19):
People have got their ownjourney, their own truths.
We don't know what access they'vehad to education or who they've
been around, or if they've had,you know, supportive families.
No one knows that unless someone canwork out their own, their own body,
their own situation, in their own time.
You don't make change.
Not when it's forced upon you.
Jules-AutisticRadio.com: Yeah, that's so true. (16:41):
undefined
We are kind of, we kind ofhave to be the grownups here.
Much of the controversial things that arebeing said, especially in the right wing
end of things, they're being said becauseof the, the way people are being led,
(17:02):
people are being led towards these ideas.
Because of their own frustration withtheir own circumstances, they have
realized that they are not gettinga fair shake in society and they're
being handed easy targets to, to putthat anger and the people who are
(17:23):
handing them the easy targets to thepeople who are taking advantage of
the situation and manipulating it.
We've, we've got.
A situation where the enormous differencebetween rich and poor and the powerful
and the powerless has become so big thatthe pendulum has switched towards people
(17:47):
just saying no to anything, no to any kindof organization, control, no to anything,
and they're being directed towards the.
The victims in society being directedto point punch down because the people
directing them don't want them to, tolook at their situation and and examine
(18:13):
where the inequalities come from.
Kate-AutisticRadio.com (18:16):
Completely agree.
I do a lot of work in the pediatric spaceand have a lot of work with schools.
I'm in a past life.
I was a special educationteacher with vision impairment.
All I see is teachers and educatorsthat having to implement programs
that don't meet the needs of children.
(18:39):
Most of them know it.
They know it.
It doesn't go with ourcurrent world anymore.
People just need a roof over their head.
They need food on the table.
They can't stand up and say that, youknow, our current education system really
doesn't meet the needs of any neuro.
Child because they justneed to keep their job.
(19:01):
But the policies and procedures are nowwritten by bureaucrats, not people that
actually understand human development.
And I used human development quitespecifically because we had to have
change in the disability space.
People were absolutelybeing discriminated against.
There was no presumed competence.
(19:24):
But that's also, in myopinion, been a bit.
Double-edged edged because you dohave people that, that have been like
diagnosed, that have got degrees or jobsor have been successful in whichever
way they are in their lives that havenot known that they've missed out on
stuff that they have been, that theyhave been there has been the presumption
(19:48):
that they are understanding everythingthat's going on in their world.
I thought that for a very long time,but there's, yeah, I get very confused
by words and I didn't realize a lotof the accommodations that I'd made.
So when we force stuff onpeople, it, it doesn't work.
People that have to implement theseprograms and, and frameworks are just
(20:12):
generally people that can't make anychange to the policies and the systems
are set up for that all over the world.
Jules-AutisticRadio.com (20:23):
Yeah, this reminds me also, you know, in the
same way that the teacher on the frontline is getting criticized by perhaps
parents of neurodivergent kids becausethe parent is entirely frustrated.
We've also got the situationwhere the neuro divergent person.
(20:49):
Has been getting on.
Okay.
In society, up to a degree is seento be a threat to the people who
have higher needs and need moreaccommodations, almost as though we
are being turned against each other.
So we all have to absolutely makesure as much as possible when we
(21:10):
vent our frustrations and whenwe vent our anger that we don't.
Destroy the bonds that wecould have with the allies.
I personally feel as though we needmore voices from parents of autistic
kids, not just neurodivergent parentsbringing up neurodivergent kids
(21:34):
like myself or some of our otherworkers here, Nicola, for instance.
But the other part of neurodiversity, the.
The non neurodivergent parents, theparents who are, who are dealing
with kids who are so different tothemselves, they can often be ostracized
by the neurodivergent community.
(21:57):
They can, they can be used as ascapegoat, and I, we need links
and allies as much as we can acrossall of this, because the enemy.
Is, is not individuals.
The enemy is a system being createdby a very small number of individuals.
Kate-AutisticRadio.com (22:17):
I couldn't have said it better myself.
It's it's not the people on, you know,trying to work out from budgets at
schools, how to fund extra sandwichesfor kids that don't have food to eat.
That need, you know, thatshould be getting the blame.
(22:40):
They're just trying toget through their day.
It is, it's the, it's the systems, it'sthe policies written by people that don't
know anything about child developmentor neurodiversity or, you know, adult
therapy frameworks and those things.
Don't get listened to
Nicola-AutisticRadio.com (22:59):
what you said there, Jules, about the
making connections with like.
People like parents who like holisticparents and things the same feels really
important and it kinda counters thatableist survival of the fittest attitude
that I feel like some of these, like what?
What causes autism kind ofrhetorics in the US is, um.
(23:23):
Kinda allude to thatsurvival of the fittest idea.
And it shifts it to the, like, thesurvival of the most connected.
And it's like in ecosystems, likethe, like a species is resilient
where it's, when it's got like a fewconnections to different, like other
organisms in an ecosystem, not just one.
And so it like makes ita lot more resilient.
(23:43):
And that's what I kind of think aboutwhen I think about like community and um.
Connection and it's like, it, it's, it'sthe real challenge I think, as an autistic
person, because isolation is probablythrough trauma as well as for a lot of
autistic people is at as well as the kindof need to kinda have that quiet time.
(24:06):
It's a, it's a challenge, but I think it'slike a, like, it's a worthy challenge.
Jules-AutisticRadio.com (24:12):
Oh, I, I couldn't agree with you more, Nicola.
Unfortunately, one of the ways thatautistic people bond with each other
is through trauma, and that is a lovelything and that's a very healing thing.
However, if it's done in the publicsphere and if it becomes a whole
of an identity as it does for someof the commentators that I see
(24:36):
online, that's, that's a negative.
That spreads across thewhole of our community.
I want to read some ofthe things in the chat.
We've got somebody who says it couldbe that a great transformation is
unavoidable, but the chosen methods ofcoping with that are the traditional safe
(24:56):
ways that got us here in the first place.
Perhaps that traditional way ofoperating needs itself to collapse,
unfortunately, and the mission now isto figure out how to make this collapse.
Less disastrous.
So I'm taking from that.
(25:16):
You need a revolution, but you needa revolution that doesn't destroy
everything and break everything.
And at the moment it looks as thoughwe might be too close to having a
revolution that destroys everything.
But my take on that would be we needto keep our own resilience, keep our
ideas, and foster the links ourselves.
(25:40):
Okay.
I've read that in the text.
I understand the same poster tothe conversations about children.
Says that maybe the autistic people haveinsights and even the non-parents amongst
the autistic community, the autisticelders, they still have insights into.
(26:05):
What it is to be a child because weare in touch with our teenage and
our earlier selves to some degree.
So we are a resource.
Raymond-AutisticRadio.com: Yeah, I do prefer the word (26:15):
undefined
transformation to revolution.
Revolution has a lot of baggage.
Transformation happens all the time.
Small ways and huge ways,and I think the systems we.
Reflecting on who's in chargeright now, generally in the
(26:37):
world and their ideologies.
It's the people who really fundamentallybelieve in that way of operating
that kind of business as usual.
And that's why they're there,because they're the safest seen
as the safest pair of hands.
You know, because they, they believein all that, and it's just gonna
(26:59):
take us further and further into.
I don't see any of the promisesof improvement coming true.
They're just going to scoop up.
So the world generally has to suffera wee bit, unfortunately, uh, until
somehow it becomes possible to lookat a different way of operating.
(27:23):
And that's not like, oh, I'mproposing a radical alternative.
I think it's just workingwith what we've got.
In an inclusive way,
Robbie-AutisticRadio.com (27:35):
my experience for a lot of services is unwillingness
to listen to the experience of neurodivergent people, then IPOing the same
old solutions that don't work for allautistic people and divergent people.
Raymond-AutisticRadio.com (27:55):
Hearing that I sometimes wonder, why don't they listen?
Why don't they want to listen?
There are reasons.
They're usually economic.
They're social and cultural as well,because they are fearful in defending
something or else they would help,they would offer help and assistance.
They would see the needy insociety and you know, help.
(28:19):
But that's the way it operates.
It's a tricky thing we'vebeen challenged with here.
Jules-AutisticRadio.com (28:27):
I can tell a story about that.
The autistic radio group, the earliestpart of it, worked for three years with
a group of professionals called theAutism Network in Scotland, and they
were very keen on co-production with us.
But as soon as there was the opportunityfor them to get grant funding.
(28:52):
They excluded us from the process.
We found out about it quite far intothe funding, and that funding funded 16
different programs aimed at exactly ourmembership, the late identified group,
and the funding was worded saying thatonly groups would get the funding if they
(29:16):
had a meaningful input and consultation.
With the autistic communityand that group, the autistic
network had us in their pocket.
We were there.
We were right there.
They were cooperating with us, makingpodcasts, discussing things with us.
But they did this behind the scenes,and then they announced that they
(29:40):
had this funding and in their budget,they didn't put anything for including
autistic people to work on it.
And they created the programbefore they consulted us.
So the idea of it being co-production,we were excluded from suggesting our
ideas on how things should be done.
(30:03):
And the really interesting thing asa businessman in the budget was that
they'd set aside a couple of thousandpounds, maybe 4,000 Australian dollars
for an event that wouldhave a hiring of a room.
And at that point, they had noreason to have an event or a hiring
of the room because everythingthat they eventually did was in
(30:25):
per was, was not in person at all.
And when I suggested that we did somework with them and co-produced some
things, they offered us some pocket money.
What happened in the end was thatthey received 20,000 pounds and they
supported less than 10 individualsat 2000 pounds per individual.
(30:48):
So to me it is all about money.
The reason the professionals excludeus is because they are afraid that
they will not be able to put themoney into their own business or
their own income because they arescrambling around for income themselves.
So the money that was put away forthis in their budget for an event
(31:12):
that never happened, that wasn'tsomething that they spent on us to.
To incre to improve whatthey they're offering.
They just kept it.
Raymond-AutisticRadio.com (31:22):
So that's almost like an education and navigating
what's called output driven networks.
Going back to what Nicola was sayingabout networking, the, the, almost
the ecology of that, the, the generalnetwork ecology just now seems to be
output driven and profit based, you know.
(31:45):
Or non deficit based,if you know what I mean.
They don't want to lose funding.
So yeah, it's, I thinkthere's an education there.
There's things to be gleaned from that.
Robbie-AutisticRadio.com (31:56):
For me, in my, my situation, it was social
care and what people don't seemto realize, if you are left money,
it isn't taxpayer's money they'respending, it's autistic person's money.
And they was putting on stuff that Iclearly explained why it would cause me
(32:17):
harm, and yet they were willing to put mein financial difficulty to provide things
that were, they thought were suitable.
Nicola-AutisticRadio.com (32:27):
There's a comment, um, in the chat and
since everyone has insight,everyone's perspective is valuable.
Collective wisdom is what has hashistorically made incredible change.
The concept of there being expertsis any, is in anything, is something
I cannot understand, is it is onlythat one person's perspective.
(32:49):
Why can't we share our knowledgeand work out what the best parts
are so we can include everyone.
We all have different preferencesthat is not just exclusive
to the neurodiversity space.
Jules-AutisticRadio.com (33:03):
I particularly like the concept there that reminds us.
That there are no experts in autism.
Autism is a fast moving, expandinginquiry in human behavior and nature.
And those people who have, are put outthere as experts at the moment, tend to
(33:24):
be people who are very out of date, outdate, certainly with a neurodiversity
paradigm, and they haven't refreshedtheir ideas and taken part in what that.
Texter says, for the collectivewisdom, the collective wisdom of
autistic people can be hard to access,but it's not impossible to access.
(33:48):
What I see as I have been involved in thisover the last five years or so, coming
out of a business environment is thatthere are very specific gatekeeper ways.
Of excluding us at the same time assaying they were going to include us,
they put lots and lots of barriersto actually exclude us because they
(34:11):
want, they don't want the change.
They that they don't want tolose that control and power that
keeps somebody in their position.
Nicola-AutisticRadio.com (34:19):
There's something about like this process taking
time and it reminds me of somethingthat was mentioned earlier on about,
you know, how we don't wanna be kind ofcoming out or reactive and combative.
And it's like, it's the same energy ofhaving to slow down and like be regulated.
And I, I think that there's you,I just feel that you can just see
(34:43):
how big an issue it is because.
In the, in services where people areproviding groups or, um, programs or
things like that, these people areoften employed one year at a time.
Like, it scares me the thought of, um,like if I, if I was to try and move
into that kind of work, I, I wouldbe broken at the thought of like,
(35:06):
oh, this job, I've got nine monthsleft, and then my contract's over.
That's a terrifying positionfor workers to be in as well.
And then it's.
Yeah, just, it just, I getsoverwhelmed at just like how
it's all so con, interconnected.
Kate-AutisticRadio.com (35:24):
It's crazy the way it's done over here.
Yeah, this is a long time ago, but it'sstill the same process when you get,
when you get a, a position in the school,you can literally find out half an hour
before the beginning of the school term.
There were several positionsuntil I got permanency.
(35:44):
Where I literally got the call thatmorning and was running down the
corridor as school had already started.
How you can even set up a classroom orknow where you are working, like where
does that happen in any other space?
Why is that acceptable?
Jules-AutisticRadio.com (36:05):
I think the reality is it does happen in other
places, but it happens in places where.
It's a business or it's, it is acceptable.
It's acceptable in business tobe continually on the hoof and
changing because you are dealingwith a constantly dynamic situation.
(36:30):
So what we see is the attitudesof business to constantly
be ready for alteration.
Being brought into circumstances likehealth or like education where it's
entirely inappropriate and the powerhas been handed to administrative
(36:54):
assistants who have a business backgroundrather than an education background.
Nicola-AutisticRadio.com (37:00):
That's really, I've just found that really
helpful actually on a personal levelto understand something that kind of.
Yeah, like I probably contributed to theend of like my career in my twenties,
and it was when, um, it was the firsttime that instead of being under a
clinical, uh, manager, I was under anHR manager as a nurse, as a, like, it
(37:25):
was like it was work that you reallyhad to be able to kind of feel to do.
And I couldn't, like, it just wasso, something just broke for me
at that time and it was, it reallydid feel qualitatively different
than having clinical leaders.
Jules-AutisticRadio.com (37:44):
I have a texter here and they write.
What are the ways of includingdifferent preferences, sorry?
What are the ways of including difference?
Preferences.
The preferences of peoplewho have difference?
I think that is.
Is it an allowance of difference itself?
Is it an allowance of fluidity?
(38:06):
We have to make fluidity appearto be profitable or valued, and
we have to find or create spacesthat can afford that fluidity.
Fluidity that have enough resourcesto be able to cope with fluidity.
(38:27):
I would say that.
Fluidity and being able tochange and move and be open is
advantageous in every part of life.
But that we have created structures thatdeny it as part of the capitalist system,
(38:47):
as part of the way we organize ourselves.
And the reason we have a capitalistsystem is because it's worked
over years to be able to put.
Value on stored goods andnot just live day to day.
You know, capitalist, the capitalistsystem came from storing grain over
the winter, but it's become so complexthat it's now a huge power structure.
(39:12):
Okay, everyone, that was lovely.
Well.
It's 5 44 now, so our drop in houris finished, and thank you to all the
people who have texted, and also tothe people who have put their voices to
this that are gonna allow us to put someof those words out into the podcast.
If you join us here at the 4,4, 4, your voice isn't recorded,
(39:34):
your text isn't recorded, but thepeople here have given permission
so that it's an example for others.
See you again.
Always reliably Sunday.
Four four, 4:00 PM Cheers, guys.
We speak our words, we listen, we speak our words,
(00:06):
we listen, we speak our words,we listen, we speak our words.
We listen.
Hi there.
Every Sunday group of
Jules-AutisticRadio.com (00:20):
autistic people get together and drop in.
It's an informal group.
Um, but some of thethings that people say.
Deserve a bigger audience.
So they give us permission for usto put them in a, an edited reel.
And that's what we are here for.
Today's edited reel of the conversationsthat we have about our own autism.
(00:43):
Cheers.
Enjoy.
Nicola-AutisticRadio.com (00:45):
I think everybody sounding amazing tonight.
Today actually.
Spectrum Voices (00:49):
Melissa Lewis.
Nicola-AutisticRadio.com: That's a good word. (00:51):
undefined
It sounds like it'ssomething like honeyed.
Jules-AutisticRadio.com (00:55):
Wow.
That is exactly what it means.
Melu.
Nicola-AutisticRadio.com (00:58):
Cool.
Jules-AutisticRadio.com (01:00):
I have to say I, I don't feel as though my voice is
up to speed at the moment because I'vegot a stinking cold and I've had a few
days of, uh, taking, um, cough medicineso I can hear when I breathe in that
little rasp coming and I might cough.
During the conversation,
Raymond-AutisticRadio.com (01:18):
I thought I've detected a bit of a nasal thing there.
I've just been playing that, youknow, traditional autistic game
of, um, hunt the old means cable.
And batteries.
So just trying to remember where inthe house it was and if it's still
there, which leads to disturbing loadsof dust, so I might end up sneezing
(01:38):
at some point in the next half hour.
Who knows?
Jules-AutisticRadio.com (01:43):
Just when we were setting up this, a new guest was popping
in, somebody whose voice won't appear,and they were saying that where they are.
Things are getting reallytough at the moment.
And all the news at the moment is inAustralia, in New Zealand, in America,
all these different countries whereautism has been part of the scene.
(02:09):
And the neurodivergent modelhas, has tried to be placed
out there by autistic people.
It, it feels as though there's a pendulumbacklash against all those white.
English speaking countries and thepeople who have pushed and and made
things happen over the last decades.
(02:32):
Are the people taking the brunt of this?
Raymond-AutisticRadio.com (02:34):
Is it purely that community, Joel, or is it
generally disability or things thatdemand, you know, high cost, social,
what's the word I'm looking for?
Funding?
Jules-AutisticRadio.com: Yeah, I think you're right. (02:46):
undefined
It is the disability community,but at the moment it appears.
Well, it may just be my feed.
It may just be the kind of things Inotice, but the neurodiversity one is
the one where they can actually pointand say, that's not disabled enough.
Or there's too many of you people.
(03:08):
So the culture war does appearto have grabbed onto that.
There's been some statements bythe, the health guy in the United
States to say that he will.
Explain what the Euro environmentalcauses of autism are in September.
(03:29):
So we are, we are back to the old ideasaround autism being caused by something.
If you remember, back to autismsupposedly being caused by vaccines.
He's an anti-vaxxer.
So we are back in that kind of world.
It does feel as though autism is,is picked up and neurodiversity
(03:50):
and A DHD is, is picked up asa, at the front of it, you know,
Raymond-AutisticRadio.com (03:57):
so the internet wasn't the cause then very droll.
Nicola-AutisticRadio.com (04:02):
I was thinking as well that there's a part
of, there is going to be big ripplesas the understanding and awareness.
That has been being cultivated in certainareas of, like, around autism, then
ripples out into the kind of like wider,like consciousness, the same as what's
(04:25):
going on with like, like what's goingon for trans people just now as well.
There's been really a like, um,there's like really deep and nuanced
conversations and there's a lot offactual information that, um, like we, you
know, we've come to understand that is.
Kind of heading through someof the kind of loud and really
(04:50):
privileged kind of voice pieces in thecollective as well, and I feel like there.
There does have to be a bit about, youknow, people need to get a chance to
kinda catch up and ask questions as well.
And there's a, an opportunity for,for a lot of people to learn and, um,
learn about autism in the way thatlike, you know, we have, and yeah.
(05:15):
So I don't, I have to, I feel like.
I look around and I just feel likeeverything wants me to be so scared.
Everything on, like any news, any kindof media, everybody wants me to be angry,
outraged, and scared, and I'm like, butlike you tell the guy down the road about
autism and he's gonna maybe say somethingthat's just like, you know, out of tune.
(05:35):
But maybe if he is, he's got a chanceto like learn and go, oh, I didn't
know about this and that, you know?
Then reality kinda shifts understanding.
Raymond-AutisticRadio.com (05:46):
Yeah, that conversation challenges the powers
that be, and so they want to stiflethe conversation, but like how they
used to do it with anybody who foughtfor civil rights, you know, you stunt
making them into enemies, you know, likepinko Commies or, and even feminists,
if you go back to suffragettes, youknow, there'll be a, a press kind of
(06:09):
orchestrated press media campaign too.
People into bogey.
Men or women or people or just bogies.
So scapegoats.
So it's an old, old story and it'sjust this kinda historical phase now, I
think where the resistance has to get,well, not resistance, you know, hate
(06:33):
identities in that sense, but there's akind of, what's the word I'm looking for?
That political engagementis politicization really.
What's happening?
It's like these people aren'tgoing to take care of you.
So it was hope they would, andthey maybe still can, and that's
(06:54):
kinda conversation, I think.
So what you're saying about theconversation with anybody in down the
street, you know, has to be engaged with.
It came up when I was really listeningto Lucy's, uh, podcast, well not Lucy's
podcast, but the conversation with Lucy.
That engagement with peopleout in the street, as it were.
Jules-AutisticRadio.com (07:16):
I'm happy for us to call that Lucy's podcast.
I mean, that miniseries, I,I, it's, she's the star of it.
It, what's interesting to me is thatwe actually have, as a community,
as an autistic community, more toolsnow, and we have more information
now and we are further along.
(07:39):
So at the same time that there's thisculture war backlash, we ourselves have
a better handle on our own identity.
So even though we may have to be alittle bit more under the radar in
lots of things and not push things tojust provoke and find more subversive
(08:02):
ways through, it feels to me that wehave the tools of understanding better.
I don't think a man like me who, youknow, identified as autistic in their
fifties 10 years ago, would've had thesame tools as somebody identifying now.
So I, I see there as being a real lotof hope here and a lot of, a lot more
(08:28):
supportive spaces within the autisticcommunity than there used to be.
There used to be this.
Cliquey orthodoxy stuff, and youcan, you can transcend that now.
Raymond-AutisticRadio.com (08:41):
Yeah.
Every movement has its hardcoreactivists at the beginning, and they're
kind of, um, as you say, cliquey ish.
Not, not that they desire to be cliquey.
They're just, you know, unusual fortheir time and then it becomes, that
orthodoxy spreads out and ripples out, assaid, to become everyone's conversation.
(09:01):
Yeah.
Nicola-AutisticRadio.com (09:02):
I think what I think Ji talked about scapegoats
and it, it does really feel like that.
And I think that in, like, I feel like inschools there's such limited resources.
Um, and like poverty kind of affectsabsolutely everybody and I feel that.
(09:24):
Some, some kids are, are identifiedas autistic, some aren't.
Some, um, are strugglingfor different reasons.
And I think when there's that sense ofscarcity happening like we are being fed
when they're actually, it's an artificial,like deliberately constructed kind of
scarcity, um, we are all left feelinglike our needs are kind of coming at the
(09:47):
expense of other peoples all the time.
When.
This is like, and it kind of takes theheat away from people, you know, really
looking at austerity and really lookingat like, um, the economy and the decisions
that are being made at our expense.
Raymond-AutisticRadio.com: Definitely that might bring back (10:05):
undefined
that class war kind of analysis.
Who knows?
You know, 'cause you don't, thatscarcity mindset just puts people
against each other, doesn't it?
Nicola-AutisticRadio.com (10:18):
And it's not even looking back.
'cause this isn't about just like,you know, working class people
being resentful of middle class.
This is like billionaire class.
Like people, I think there was arenot, some celebrities apparently
launched a bunch of women in thisspace and they floated around and
were like, oh, we're so feminist now.
And it's like, imagine wasting thatmuch money when there's like, like.
(10:41):
Hit like, not apparently not enough foodslike in Gaza or wherever it is, just
like there shouldn't be, we, we shouldn'thave that sort of inequality going on.
Surely.
Raymond-AutisticRadio.com (10:52):
Yeah.
But the, the media canbe a quagmire as well.
Listening to all that, that stuff, youknow, which has fed to us really spooned.
'cause somebody I saw reacting to thatnews said, well, look at the way these
women who went there are being treated.
You know, like men who did it,like, you know, William Shatner,
celebrities like that weren't, youknow, uh, lampoon or criticized.
(11:16):
And you can see that there is afeminist argument there that is
because women celebrities did it,there were more figures of fun.
Do you see what I mean?
Nicola-AutisticRadio.com (11:24):
I just feel like they were sent there.
Do you know?
Like they were, I wasn't like,it doesn't matter who was.
Somebody's paid for that to happen.
Somebody's like, put all of that, likewanting to put all that out there and
it's just like, oh, let them eat cake.
Raymond-AutisticRadio.com (11:39):
Yeah.
What's that old cliche?
Bread and circuses?
Nicola-AutisticRadio.com: Yeah, absolutely. (11:44):
undefined
And it's like, I think all the,it's all this sort of shock
stuff, all this shocking news.
Like it can just, especially when they're,you know, the, like that RFK stuff, it's
like horrifying for people to see and.
Like, it just makes people feel that like,you know, it's not safe out there in the
(12:06):
world and that people are like awful.
And just feel like that, like the, whenI have been out, when I'm connected to
like, like the, the community spaces thatI'm, that that's not what I'm seeing.
And there's like, it's not thehumans that I know and I keep
just trying to focus on that.
Raymond-AutisticRadio.com (12:26):
Now that's good and very important.
The real world matters, you know, incomparison to the spoonfed media garbage.
That is part of what makes us all uneasy.
Jules-AutisticRadio.com (12:38):
I noticed there's a few people texting, so just
to remind texters that if they putthings down in text, then they will
be read out, but they'll be read outin such a way that they don't get
identified and they won't be compromised.
And we can always edit out.
We are not live.
(12:59):
I remember one of our earliercontributors, they were with autistic
radio for a couple of years, and howthey came to find us was because on
Quora they put out a post saying,are we getting in our own way?
(13:19):
And it was a comment on autistic advocacy.
That the way advocates were addressingthe problem sometimes were so much
in the, here is my trauma narrativeand protest and anger narrative that
(13:42):
it was, it was just bouncing off.
The professionals were not in anyway willing to take that on board.
Maybe that's where we're headingback to if we're not careful.
I've seen some stuff on LinkedIn that'svery well measured, but I've also
(14:03):
seen some stuff that is basically justmoaning and there are places to moan.
You know, this might be one of them,but we have to be quite measured
and cautious and we can really.
Take control of the narrativeagainst some of the madness.
(14:26):
If, if we behave and communicate in, ina kind of measured and thoughtful way.
That's my take on it.
Raymond-AutisticRadio.com (14:38):
Yeah.
If, if we're, if people want to proposean inclusive world, and I think you
have, approach it with inclusivity.
Open, you know, combative, it's fine.
You know, sometimes you have to beassertive, but it can lead to a lot
of problems and it's playing the game.
(15:03):
A game you might not want to play,
Kate-AutisticRadio.com (15:05):
I must admit.
I agree.
Evidently, I do things differently in myprofession, but you can't push someone.
To do anything in anyone in, in any space.
I often use the example of performancedevelopment in jobs and your evaluations.
(15:27):
It's like, it's like we're notallowed to make mistakes anymore,
that there's one perfect type ofperson in the world, which is just,
Spectrum Voices (15:37):
yeah,
Kate-AutisticRadio.com (15:38):
I can't wrap my head around some of the best.
Inventions in the worldwere made through mistakes.
Some of the best medicalinterventions and, and drugs
have been made through mistakes.
Mistakes shouldn't be seenas awful things that we do.
It's human nature, butwe've become so risk averse.
(15:59):
It's, yeah, it's, it's lost the humanity,but no one likes things forced on them.
No one like to feel stupid.
Being late diagnosed myself, I'm quitesick of feeling stupid, especially with
my disc calculator, but if you put ademand on someone, they won't do it.
(16:19):
People have got their ownjourney, their own truths.
We don't know what access they'vehad to education or who they've
been around, or if they've had,you know, supportive families.
No one knows that unless someone canwork out their own, their own body,
their own situation, in their own time.
You don't make change.
Not when it's forced upon you.
Jules-AutisticRadio.com: Yeah, that's so true. (16:41):
undefined
We are kind of, we kind ofhave to be the grownups here.
Much of the controversial things that arebeing said, especially in the right wing
end of things, they're being said becauseof the, the way people are being led,
(17:02):
people are being led towards these ideas.
Because of their own frustration withtheir own circumstances, they have
realized that they are not gettinga fair shake in society and they're
being handed easy targets to, to putthat anger and the people who are
(17:23):
handing them the easy targets to thepeople who are taking advantage of
the situation and manipulating it.
We've, we've got.
A situation where the enormous differencebetween rich and poor and the powerful
and the powerless has become so big thatthe pendulum has switched towards people
(17:47):
just saying no to anything, no to any kindof organization, control, no to anything,
and they're being directed towards the.
The victims in society being directedto point punch down because the people
directing them don't want them to, tolook at their situation and and examine
(18:13):
where the inequalities come from.
Kate-AutisticRadio.com (18:16):
Completely agree.
I do a lot of work in the pediatric spaceand have a lot of work with schools.
I'm in a past life.
I was a special educationteacher with vision impairment.
All I see is teachers and educatorsthat having to implement programs
that don't meet the needs of children.
(18:39):
Most of them know it.
They know it.
It doesn't go with ourcurrent world anymore.
People just need a roof over their head.
They need food on the table.
They can't stand up and say that, youknow, our current education system really
doesn't meet the needs of any neuro.
Child because they justneed to keep their job.
(19:01):
But the policies and procedures are nowwritten by bureaucrats, not people that
actually understand human development.
And I used human development quitespecifically because we had to have
change in the disability space.
People were absolutelybeing discriminated against.
There was no presumed competence.
(19:24):
But that's also, in myopinion, been a bit.
Double-edged edged because you dohave people that, that have been like
diagnosed, that have got degrees or jobsor have been successful in whichever
way they are in their lives that havenot known that they've missed out on
stuff that they have been, that theyhave been there has been the presumption
(19:48):
that they are understanding everythingthat's going on in their world.
I thought that for a very long time,but there's, yeah, I get very confused
by words and I didn't realize a lotof the accommodations that I'd made.
So when we force stuff onpeople, it, it doesn't work.
People that have to implement theseprograms and, and frameworks are just
(20:12):
generally people that can't make anychange to the policies and the systems
are set up for that all over the world.
Jules-AutisticRadio.com (20:23):
Yeah, this reminds me also, you know, in the
same way that the teacher on the frontline is getting criticized by perhaps
parents of neurodivergent kids becausethe parent is entirely frustrated.
We've also got the situationwhere the neuro divergent person.
(20:49):
Has been getting on.
Okay.
In society, up to a degree is seento be a threat to the people who
have higher needs and need moreaccommodations, almost as though we
are being turned against each other.
So we all have to absolutely makesure as much as possible when we
(21:10):
vent our frustrations and whenwe vent our anger that we don't.
Destroy the bonds that wecould have with the allies.
I personally feel as though we needmore voices from parents of autistic
kids, not just neurodivergent parentsbringing up neurodivergent kids
(21:34):
like myself or some of our otherworkers here, Nicola, for instance.
But the other part of neurodiversity, the.
The non neurodivergent parents, theparents who are, who are dealing
with kids who are so different tothemselves, they can often be ostracized
by the neurodivergent community.
(21:57):
They can, they can be used as ascapegoat, and I, we need links
and allies as much as we can acrossall of this, because the enemy.
Is, is not individuals.
The enemy is a system being createdby a very small number of individuals.
Kate-AutisticRadio.com (22:17):
I couldn't have said it better myself.
It's it's not the people on, you know,trying to work out from budgets at
schools, how to fund extra sandwichesfor kids that don't have food to eat.
That need, you know, thatshould be getting the blame.
(22:40):
They're just trying toget through their day.
It is, it's the, it's the systems, it'sthe policies written by people that don't
know anything about child developmentor neurodiversity or, you know, adult
therapy frameworks and those things.
Don't get listened to
Nicola-AutisticRadio.com (22:59):
what you said there, Jules, about the
making connections with like.
People like parents who like holisticparents and things the same feels really
important and it kinda counters thatableist survival of the fittest attitude
that I feel like some of these, like what?
What causes autism kind ofrhetorics in the US is, um.
(23:23):
Kinda allude to thatsurvival of the fittest idea.
And it shifts it to the, like, thesurvival of the most connected.
And it's like in ecosystems, likethe, like a species is resilient
where it's, when it's got like a fewconnections to different, like other
organisms in an ecosystem, not just one.
And so it like makes ita lot more resilient.
(23:43):
And that's what I kind of think aboutwhen I think about like community and um.
Connection and it's like, it, it's, it'sthe real challenge I think, as an autistic
person, because isolation is probablythrough trauma as well as for a lot of
autistic people is at as well as the kindof need to kinda have that quiet time.
(24:06):
It's a, it's a challenge, but I think it'slike a, like, it's a worthy challenge.
Jules-AutisticRadio.com (24:12):
Oh, I, I couldn't agree with you more, Nicola.
Unfortunately, one of the ways thatautistic people bond with each other
is through trauma, and that is a lovelything and that's a very healing thing.
However, if it's done in the publicsphere and if it becomes a whole
of an identity as it does for someof the commentators that I see
(24:36):
online, that's, that's a negative.
That spreads across thewhole of our community.
I want to read some ofthe things in the chat.
We've got somebody who says it couldbe that a great transformation is
unavoidable, but the chosen methods ofcoping with that are the traditional safe
(24:56):
ways that got us here in the first place.
Perhaps that traditional way ofoperating needs itself to collapse,
unfortunately, and the mission now isto figure out how to make this collapse.
Less disastrous.
So I'm taking from that.
(25:16):
You need a revolution, but you needa revolution that doesn't destroy
everything and break everything.
And at the moment it looks as thoughwe might be too close to having a
revolution that destroys everything.
But my take on that would be we needto keep our own resilience, keep our
ideas, and foster the links ourselves.
(25:40):
Okay.
I've read that in the text.
I understand the same poster tothe conversations about children.
Says that maybe the autistic people haveinsights and even the non-parents amongst
the autistic community, the autisticelders, they still have insights into.
(26:05):
What it is to be a child because weare in touch with our teenage and
our earlier selves to some degree.
So we are a resource.
Raymond-AutisticRadio.com: Yeah, I do prefer the word (26:15):
undefined
transformation to revolution.
Revolution has a lot of baggage.
Transformation happens all the time.
Small ways and huge ways,and I think the systems we.
Reflecting on who's in chargeright now, generally in the
(26:37):
world and their ideologies.
It's the people who really fundamentallybelieve in that way of operating
that kind of business as usual.
And that's why they're there,because they're the safest seen
as the safest pair of hands.
You know, because they, they believein all that, and it's just gonna
(26:59):
take us further and further into.
I don't see any of the promisesof improvement coming true.
They're just going to scoop up.
So the world generally has to suffera wee bit, unfortunately, uh, until
somehow it becomes possible to lookat a different way of operating.
(27:23):
And that's not like, oh, I'mproposing a radical alternative.
I think it's just workingwith what we've got.
In an inclusive way,
Robbie-AutisticRadio.com (27:35):
my experience for a lot of services is unwillingness
to listen to the experience of neurodivergent people, then IPOing the same
old solutions that don't work for allautistic people and divergent people.
Raymond-AutisticRadio.com (27:55):
Hearing that I sometimes wonder, why don't they listen?
Why don't they want to listen?
There are reasons.
They're usually economic.
They're social and cultural as well,because they are fearful in defending
something or else they would help,they would offer help and assistance.
They would see the needy insociety and you know, help.
(28:19):
But that's the way it operates.
It's a tricky thing we'vebeen challenged with here.
Jules-AutisticRadio.com (28:27):
I can tell a story about that.
The autistic radio group, the earliestpart of it, worked for three years with
a group of professionals called theAutism Network in Scotland, and they
were very keen on co-production with us.
But as soon as there was the opportunityfor them to get grant funding.
(28:52):
They excluded us from the process.
We found out about it quite far intothe funding, and that funding funded 16
different programs aimed at exactly ourmembership, the late identified group,
and the funding was worded saying thatonly groups would get the funding if they
(29:16):
had a meaningful input and consultation.
With the autistic communityand that group, the autistic
network had us in their pocket.
We were there.
We were right there.
They were cooperating with us, makingpodcasts, discussing things with us.
But they did this behind the scenes,and then they announced that they
(29:40):
had this funding and in their budget,they didn't put anything for including
autistic people to work on it.
And they created the programbefore they consulted us.
So the idea of it being co-production,we were excluded from suggesting our
ideas on how things should be done.
(30:03):
And the really interesting thing asa businessman in the budget was that
they'd set aside a couple of thousandpounds, maybe 4,000 Australian dollars
for an event that wouldhave a hiring of a room.
And at that point, they had noreason to have an event or a hiring
of the room because everythingthat they eventually did was in
(30:25):
per was, was not in person at all.
And when I suggested that we did somework with them and co-produced some
things, they offered us some pocket money.
What happened in the end was thatthey received 20,000 pounds and they
supported less than 10 individualsat 2000 pounds per individual.
(30:48):
So to me it is all about money.
The reason the professionals excludeus is because they are afraid that
they will not be able to put themoney into their own business or
their own income because they arescrambling around for income themselves.
So the money that was put away forthis in their budget for an event
(31:12):
that never happened, that wasn'tsomething that they spent on us to.
To incre to improve whatthey they're offering.
They just kept it.
Raymond-AutisticRadio.com (31:22):
So that's almost like an education and navigating
what's called output driven networks.
Going back to what Nicola was sayingabout networking, the, the, almost
the ecology of that, the, the generalnetwork ecology just now seems to be
output driven and profit based, you know.
(31:45):
Or non deficit based,if you know what I mean.
They don't want to lose funding.
So yeah, it's, I thinkthere's an education there.
There's things to be gleaned from that.
Robbie-AutisticRadio.com (31:56):
For me, in my, my situation, it was social
care and what people don't seemto realize, if you are left money,
it isn't taxpayer's money they'respending, it's autistic person's money.
And they was putting on stuff that Iclearly explained why it would cause me
(32:17):
harm, and yet they were willing to put mein financial difficulty to provide things
that were, they thought were suitable.
Nicola-AutisticRadio.com (32:27):
There's a comment, um, in the chat and
since everyone has insight,everyone's perspective is valuable.
Collective wisdom is what has hashistorically made incredible change.
The concept of there being expertsis any, is in anything, is something
I cannot understand, is it is onlythat one person's perspective.
(32:49):
Why can't we share our knowledgeand work out what the best parts
are so we can include everyone.
We all have different preferencesthat is not just exclusive
to the neurodiversity space.
Jules-AutisticRadio.com (33:03):
I particularly like the concept there that reminds us.
That there are no experts in autism.
Autism is a fast moving, expandinginquiry in human behavior and nature.
And those people who have, are put outthere as experts at the moment, tend to
(33:24):
be people who are very out of date, outdate, certainly with a neurodiversity
paradigm, and they haven't refreshedtheir ideas and taken part in what that.
Texter says, for the collectivewisdom, the collective wisdom of
autistic people can be hard to access,but it's not impossible to access.
(33:48):
What I see as I have been involved in thisover the last five years or so, coming
out of a business environment is thatthere are very specific gatekeeper ways.
Of excluding us at the same time assaying they were going to include us,
they put lots and lots of barriersto actually exclude us because they
(34:11):
want, they don't want the change.
They that they don't want tolose that control and power that
keeps somebody in their position.
Nicola-AutisticRadio.com (34:19):
There's something about like this process taking
time and it reminds me of somethingthat was mentioned earlier on about,
you know, how we don't wanna be kind ofcoming out or reactive and combative.
And it's like, it's the same energy ofhaving to slow down and like be regulated.
And I, I think that there's you,I just feel that you can just see
(34:43):
how big an issue it is because.
In the, in services where people areproviding groups or, um, programs or
things like that, these people areoften employed one year at a time.
Like, it scares me the thought of, um,like if I, if I was to try and move
into that kind of work, I, I wouldbe broken at the thought of like,
(35:06):
oh, this job, I've got nine monthsleft, and then my contract's over.
That's a terrifying positionfor workers to be in as well.
And then it's.
Yeah, just, it just, I getsoverwhelmed at just like how
it's all so con, interconnected.
Kate-AutisticRadio.com (35:24):
It's crazy the way it's done over here.
Yeah, this is a long time ago, but it'sstill the same process when you get,
when you get a, a position in the school,you can literally find out half an hour
before the beginning of the school term.
There were several positionsuntil I got permanency.
(35:44):
Where I literally got the call thatmorning and was running down the
corridor as school had already started.
How you can even set up a classroom orknow where you are working, like where
does that happen in any other space?
Why is that acceptable?
Jules-AutisticRadio.com (36:05):
I think the reality is it does happen in other
places, but it happens in places where.
It's a business or it's, it is acceptable.
It's acceptable in business tobe continually on the hoof and
changing because you are dealingwith a constantly dynamic situation.
(36:30):
So what we see is the attitudesof business to constantly
be ready for alteration.
Being brought into circumstances likehealth or like education where it's
entirely inappropriate and the powerhas been handed to administrative
(36:54):
assistants who have a business backgroundrather than an education background.
Nicola-AutisticRadio.com (37:00):
That's really, I've just found that really
helpful actually on a personal levelto understand something that kind of.
Yeah, like I probably contributed to theend of like my career in my twenties,
and it was when, um, it was the firsttime that instead of being under a
clinical, uh, manager, I was under anHR manager as a nurse, as a, like, it
(37:25):
was like it was work that you reallyhad to be able to kind of feel to do.
And I couldn't, like, it just wasso, something just broke for me
at that time and it was, it reallydid feel qualitatively different
than having clinical leaders.
Jules-AutisticRadio.com (37:44):
I have a texter here and they write.
What are the ways of includingdifferent preferences, sorry?
What are the ways of including difference?
Preferences.
The preferences of peoplewho have difference?
I think that is.
Is it an allowance of difference itself?
Is it an allowance of fluidity?
(38:06):
We have to make fluidity appearto be profitable or valued, and
we have to find or create spacesthat can afford that fluidity.
Fluidity that have enough resourcesto be able to cope with fluidity.
(38:27):
I would say that.
Fluidity and being able tochange and move and be open is
advantageous in every part of life.
But that we have created structures thatdeny it as part of the capitalist system,
(38:47):
as part of the way we organize ourselves.
And the reason we have a capitalistsystem is because it's worked
over years to be able to put.
Value on stored goods andnot just live day to day.
You know, capitalist, the capitalistsystem came from storing grain over
the winter, but it's become so complexthat it's now a huge power structure.
(39:12):
Okay, everyone, that was lovely.
Well.
It's 5 44 now, so our drop in houris finished, and thank you to all the
people who have texted, and also tothe people who have put their voices to
this that are gonna allow us to put someof those words out into the podcast.
If you join us here at the 4,4, 4, your voice isn't recorded,
(39:34):
your text isn't recorded, but thepeople here have given permission
so that it's an example for others.
See you again.
Always reliably Sunday.
Four four, 4:00 PM Cheers, guys.
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