November 26, 2025 • 25 mins
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Slow conversations that we have about our own autism with lots of silences. (edited out here)
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:01):
Hi there.
Every Sunday a group of autisticpeople get together and drop in.
It's an informal group.
Um, but some of the things thatpeople say deserve a bigger audience,
so they give us permission for usto put them in a an edited reel.
And that's what we are here for today'sedited reel of the conversations
(00:23):
that we have about our own autism.
Cheers, enjoy.
How's it going with you, Lucy?
I was gonna come into both of thosemeetings at , the, , conference, but
for some reason my brain decided tobelieve they were both at the same time.
Like they're gonna be scheduled thesame for every day, and actually
sat in this room for about fiveminutes on my own thinking, and I
(00:46):
think I might have got this wrong.
Oh, did I cock up and notput it on the calendar?
No, I, I, I think you did and I thinkyou explained it well enough . It's more
that I think it's a bit of a me thing.
I was doing other stuff and then Ithought, oh, look, look at the time.
And it was the same time as the daybefore and I thought, that's the
time I think it's scheduled for.
But then I, when I look back, it wasjust me being a bit fuddled with me days.
(01:11):
Yeah, look, don't worry about it.
I, I made so many mistakes.
I was on mute when I shouldn't have beenon mute and all kinds of things that
made me worry that you guys didn't, uh,you know, get a fair shake of things,
but between a lot of us that it couldn'thave done, couldn't have gone better.
What you said, I've now downloadedand I've got it on, and I know
(01:34):
that it's come out nicely, so.
It also made, uh, a real bigdifference in the room, having you
speaking out there at the background.
Interestingly, having you and then alsoRay with a couple of texts, and then
on the next day when Ray was just therewithout texting, it also made a very
valid kind of point to the whole thing.
(01:55):
So, no, nothing, nothingspoiled, anything.
Just really went well.
Brilliant.
It's really good to hear that.
Actually, it's, I, I dunnowhy I was in such a faff.
It was my dentist week.
I still hadn't gone over it.
Yeah.
I did a very similar thing to Lucy.
It was like I was assuming it wouldbe the same time the next day and then
I double checked my, um, calendar.
(02:16):
'cause I had a couple of conflictingthings on and luckily realized
it was earlier, you know, roundabout lunchtime, so tuned in.
What you say about, you know, justbeing kind of silent during that
second one was because I, that wasa way to facilitate what you were
doing because it was going so well.
(02:38):
You know, there was no need toreally, to contribute and it was in
a way, an example of what you weretalking about in that second day.
This idea of shut up andthings, that experience.
So.
Yeah, it wasn't a conscious thing onmy part, it's just the way it went.
It
(02:58):
was
a fortuitous
thing.
Basically, it, it seemed like therewas a really good vibe in the room,
so, and there was a point during thefirst one, I think, where it began to
open up and imagine you felt that too.
Contributions really helped.
Specifically Lucy's one, which wasjust an exemplary, uh, advocacy.
(03:18):
So.
I'm glad you recorded that because thatwas really a good piece she offered there.
Thank you.
I, guess it's just the way thatthe conversation went and trying to
just show them that this is anotherstring to our bow, rather being what
we do all the time, and that if, ifthings come our way, then we will do
(03:40):
them depending on the merits of it.
When I've heard you speak in anadvocacy kind of position, Lucy, that
you, you're almost a natural, I thinkit was discussing it with someone
else recently that, uh, when youknow what you want or kind of, or in
what you want, it just flows becauseit's very meaningful to you and it's,
(04:01):
uh, honest and truthful and natural.
I think it was with my employment advisor.
In fact, I was speaking to this weekabout this idea of like just taking
jobs for the sake of it and actuallytrying to discover one that you want.
And so you have to know what youwant before you can do that, and
(04:22):
I very much feel that it's certaintimes and specifically this time,
I think you knew what you wanted.
Anytime past 11 o'clock in the morning,I'm generally pretty coherent actually.
If it'd been early morning, thenwouldn't have got a sodding thing out me.
But , it just, I just feltthe right place, right time.
It was interesting to be part of it.
(04:43):
I'd do it again.
I think self-esteem wise, . Itwas a really big deal.
I think all of us got a boost out of this.
Self-esteem wise.
We were listened to, wewere part of something.
It was something that we wereachieving together., I really think
it was a valuable thing as autisticpeople to have got this done and made
(05:08):
it happen for our own self-esteem.
And I believe that the biggest real thing.
The biggest crisis in autism of our agegroup is self-esteem and loneliness.
Combined those two things together,
I really wish I could havebeen a fly on the wall.
(05:28):
I, I had wanted to, but it was, it justconflicted with a busy time with work.
So I can't wait to hearwhat you said, Lucy.
One thing I will say is that Iread your substack and realized.
I knew it before, but you're sucha good writer and I'm curious,
who are you in that picture?
(05:49):
Oh, in the picture
of the top?
Is that what you mean?
Yeah, on your substack
this week when you wereon tour with the band.
Okay, so I am sort ofa couple of rows down.
I'm quite near the middle.
Next to a ginger guy, that side of me.
I'm in the middle of that blob, but I look, really different to the way I look now.
But thanks very much for thecompliment on the writing.
(06:11):
It's something that I've reallyenjoyed doing and have been
for a number of, of months.
Well, we've about a year now since Istarted this substack I've learned to
kind of pull my words back a little bit.
And maybe not always override,overriding is a bad thing.
People lose concentration.
So, but I'm, I've learned all these thingsjust by sitting down and doing them.
(06:34):
Yeah, it was really evocativeand you're right, it was short.
But there's somethingelse about your writing.
You just have your own voice and don't,don't think too hard about the writing.
It's so good.
It just is so interesting how vivid it is.
And it can take us down memorylane, even if I've never.
I never was on a tour bus,nor did I sell merchandising.
(06:57):
Maybe when I hold, Ihave cognitive decline.
I'll be telling people I didbecause I read your post.
It's
really funny.
I hope it sticks with you.
If you need to flesh out yourown journey, I could help you.
Yeah, I try and do it in my voice.
I don't try and put too many airsand graces on, I, love doing it.
(07:18):
That, that hit quitebig, that post as well.
I don't do it for money, I do itfor stats 'cause I enjoy those.
And seeing how many people jump on boardand have a read, it tells me how people,
how many people have opened it and things.
And as it starts to rise and morepeople are looking , you feel really
good that you started this thingeven though it was hell to write.
(07:38):
And I left a lot of things out.
Oh gosh.
The other stories, I'llhave to tell you another day
I was thinking, Lucy, as you spoke aboutthe effects of, you know, just being
part of the entourage for the band,you know, I mean fully engaged, but you
know, not exactly the band or performersyourself, the effect it had on you.
(07:59):
How then do you imagine thateffect is for the actual band,
you know, going through all that?
Do you feel that.
Slightly different, kindaplaying the activity with it.
It's a really difficult one herebecause, , I stuck out like a sore thumb.
It was really exciting to be in aplace like that surrounded by people
(08:21):
you really enjoy and have suddenly getthis job, which came outta nowhere.
The rest of the band, I thinkby the time we got to the end of
that tour, everybody was shredded.
It just shreds your brain.,It makes you feel really like
one day rolls into another.
We did 30 days back to back with Ithink one in the middle for a break.
(08:43):
By the time we hit home, it does feel likeyou've gone through this really huge sort
of eviscerating all day, all night, andthere was a lot of drinking, going on.
So it was like, when in myhead, it's like a big mishmash.
And it was such hardwork, really hard work.
But the rest of them could relate to me.
(09:03):
'cause, I just didn't speak.
I think I said in the pacethat I was autistic then as I
am now, I just didn't know it.
And if I could go back and do itagain, I'd probably be just as
unlikely to be talking to people.
But yeah, it's strange.
I didn't speak a lot either., In the highschool I went to absolutely did not speak.
(09:23):
But Lucy, I don't think anybodyever thought I was weird.
Maybe they thought I was shy and, and Iknow you were in a bus, but my husband,
who was sometimes my husband like.
We were not married and then we were,he was in a band, a really big one
13 piece, like jazz fusion band.
(09:44):
And I just be a fly on the wall.
I, I, I was the one who droveand things they didn't, but
I think people
probably just thought you werecool if that were only the way.
No, I, I got a few people on that tourwho, who took an instant dislike to me.
(10:06):
Because I was so hard to get at.
I was completely behind this sortof wall., Other things were going on
the bus and people were chatting andlaughing and doing this and doing
that, and I couldn't open my mouth.
I, I kept saying to myself,but this is your favorite band.
, These are the people you want to be with.
Why can't you speak to them?
And I think it was just my autismand I think that's all it is.
(10:27):
I just decided that I had nothing, to add.
And they were all suchbig personalities as well.
All of them were huge, loud personalities,and I just didn't fit into that mold.
You're still cool.
Thank you.
I'm not, thank you.
We're just about posting the text there.
If no one knows how to communicate withyou, then it's really difficult for us to
(10:48):
fill the gap for them or be communicative.
It's kinda my response to what you weresaying there, Lucy, , you recognize
the situation, and then people willhave an a reaction to you or us and.
Unless we make the effort, it's notgonna happen really, unless those
(11:09):
people out there have an understandingof the quiet person and how to
approach them, or the person who'sfind it difficult to engage socially.
I think this is a tone, which somebodysaid that I was intimidating and
which was something I never thought
I was only very young, very little.
I was probably, oh, where was I?
(11:32):
About 19 years old at that point.
But everybody else was a lot olderand I kind of shrunk in that space.
And that's the thing, it's thatsort of like you shrink away.
They thought maybe I was just beingobtuse and not talking to them
and being a bit rude or something.
But there was a few peopleon that bus, or women by the
(11:53):
way, who, who had to go at me.
Who just said, theysaid they didn't get me.
And they couldn't get over whatever wallit was that I was building in front of me.
So people did communicateto you how they felt?
Yeah, because sometimes we veryoften will fill that gap ourselves
and go, oh, they think this aboutme, they feel this about me.
And we don't know because theyhaven't communicated it to us.
(12:14):
But people were communicating that to you?
If you weren't saying anything, it musthave been an atmosphere or a look because.
That's the thing that came up for me todaywas I noticed some of the young teens
that live around me here, how they'regoing through that identity thing you
do as a teenager where you almost dailyexperiment with clothes and fashion and
(12:35):
appearance and trends, and it's just thisidentity shifting until you find some kind
of identity and it just seems to connectslightly there for me in this thing about
how we are sometimes out in the public.
, If I'm intimidating, I can't thinkwhy, because I feel like I'm the least
intimidating person in the world.
(12:56):
But , maybe I give offthat vibe into the world.
I guess when , you bit more selfassured, it should bounce off you.
No, it was difficult.
I wanted to be everybody's friend,but there was only one member of the
band who who really understood me.
And we used to sit down in the, thelittle cabin bit where we could have
our cups of tea and things and I'dsit with this guy called Jim and we'd
(13:20):
both watch Reeves and on the video.
And that was possibly the bestfriendship I made on that bus.
I remember, I've never been on abus that's really contained, but I
remember being in audiences wherenobody would really know who I was
and that I was with the band actually.
And I remember once the,this row in front of me
(13:45):
I think they thought they were cool.
They were really dressed in this QueenStreet, west Toronto kind of a way,
and I was just, I just dressed in themost boring way, and then one of them
who at least had a big personality,but in my memory, she was also taller
and larger than like, like large.
(14:06):
I saw in my memory.
She turned around and she said, oh.
Can you see over us?
Or is everything going togo over your head anyway?
So not everybody's nice.
So maybe we were right to stay quiet.
But then on the other hand, another timesomebody wanted me to join something where
(14:27):
they really needed another person and thenthey said, oh wow, you're really nice.
We thought you were completely stuck up.
So I guess everybody justthinks what they think.
I guess it doesn't reallymatter what people think.
, I don't care what peoplemake of me anymore.
Back then, maybe I was a little bitmore self-conscious and as for the
(14:48):
way I dressed, that was somethingelse., The clothing I had at the
time, most of it made by me, kept melooking apart from a lot of people
because , I think I wanted to be.
Seen in one way or another, maybeclothing had something to do with it.
That is that thing ofwanting to connect, isn't it?
Regardless of what we say or think,there is this kind of core reality
(15:12):
of seeking some form of connection.
Eh?
I had to cut sleep in a coughing bed.
On these coaches, the beds are so tinyyou can't sit up straight on them.
It was, it's quite an uncomfortableenvironment when I think there was like
30 something odd men and me, and sothe atmosphere on that bus was quite
(15:33):
masculine and they were all joking around.
I think the worst part about itreally is that I was drinking like
crazy to get through that tour.
All the time.
I started as soon as I woke upand stopped when I passed out.
And that was an everyday thing.
You lose yourself completely.
I used to get paid for a jobthat was like a 12 hour day.
(15:56):
I got 20 pounds a day, so Imust have been doing it for the.
Yeah, it doesn't sound like a very healthyenvironment, but there's this thing about,
your admiration for the people involvedand , the volunteering to be there.
That in itself I see as , a formof an attempt to connect to some
kind of, passion say or interest.
(16:17):
Yeah.
, I did really wanna be accepted.
The thing about , that particular bandis that once you're out, you're out.
, so I, I, and I workedreally hard for them.
It wasn't like I wasn't doing the work.
I was good at the work, but I just wasn't,I wasn't up for the loud parties, really.
It was so much booze . So when I gothome afterwards, , I fell asleep and
(16:39):
I fell asleep for a long time 'causeit's the first time I hadn't had to be
aware of my surroundings all the time.
It it kind of washed away some of thatsort of scaredness, because I was drunk
but I love that description youmade of like, how you didn't get
it at first, what they were doing.
And then one day it clicked foryou, you got it, and you were in,
(17:01):
well, my elder brother was playingme this stuff from the age of
about 12, 13 at that point.
And was looking at it andthinking it was terribly yucky,
sort of like a yucky world.
I, I didn't like it.
And I think my brother, usedto play it to me as almost a
little bit of a, as a joke on me.
(17:21):
Oh God, no.
That's horrible.
I don't, I don't like it.
I don't like it.
It finally clicked when I got the ticketto the gig, which he jacked me to.
And then it was like , I walked in andthere was the universe there, there was
this thing that, that I needed to bepart of because everything about it was
so me, it was, it was lovely in parts.
(17:41):
You ran away and joined the circus?
Yeah.
Yeah.
I ran away and joined the circus,but I, if, if, if it was a circus,
I was the cl, the I was one cleaningthe D up from behind the elephants.
Robbie says, I spent mostof my life trying to fit in.
I never worked.
In the end, I stopped trying.
He continues.
(18:02):
People are often afraid of mebecause they think I'm angry when
actually I'm anxious and theyassume that I'm going to be violent.
I think what what Robbie said therein the text is a wee bit similar to
something Lucy was saying too, aboutpeople can get this impression of
you that you're maybe a bit, intense.
(18:24):
I can't really tell fromphotographs of seen Robbie.
, I assume he's quite a tall guy,and, , that itself physical,
impressions people have.
But Robbie's also written there inthe text I have written since 1997,
trying to find a way to connectwith people first with writers
groups, then on Facebook pages.
(18:46):
, Rob's been going over some of his oldpoetry and posts it on Facebook and really
good stuff and it does go way, way back tothen, which is, almost like another world.
The late nineties.
It's not that far away, but it is.
And really we weren so tuned intothe digital world or the internet.
(19:08):
Some of us were, butit wasn't commonplace.
A mode of communication., I reflect backon people I've known in my life through
the eighties and the late seventies andwhat they were doing with their poetry
and self-publishing and stuff like that.
Dropping their stuff in librariesand hiding it here and there, and
(19:29):
then organizing little meetings , andthe way people did things back then.
I've just gotta say, Robbie, Ithink you have more followers
than I have on social media.
I don't think it's the bestmedium to get that kinda response.
, Here am I respondent to whatyou do on social media through
(19:50):
this weird way we connect.
And you're getting a response today thatsomeone has read your poetry, and I'll
sometimes look at some of your postsand see the responses that come in.
And some of them are reallygenuinely, nice and kind,
And people will thinkthat's being negative.
(20:10):
I had conversation week.
That very issue you're talking , aboutsaying no to everything, because that's
the only response you can have , in theform of communication that's going on.
Because what is being offered, it'snot coming near to what you want.
(20:32):
And, I think some of us me particularlywant and know what I want, you know,
sometimes I don't know what I want.
I know what I don't want, andyou can get caught in that loop.
I can.
So I was asking the people at thejob center, get me into a place or
a space where I can have an opencommunication with someone or people
(20:54):
about discovering , what , I want.
But I know you know perfectly wellat times what you want, Robbie.
It's just you find it difficult to accessit.. I just found out today from speaking
to a friend in a local store that evenpeople who have had a diagnosis of A
DHD are still waiting on medication.
(21:18):
We can't access it.
I asked them what the reasonmight be, brexit or something
so that's a supply chain issue.
But I'd always thought the long-termwait for an , A DHD assessment was
the thing that kickstarted youraccess to medication, which is
why a lot of people were on thatwaiting list, but apparently not.
(21:40):
Thanks for that response, Robbie.
That opens up.
Thanks for me that it'smore than medication.
It's adjustments as well.
I was just thinking about thatpost you put up on Facebook for me.
The one about where you said Iwas a media magnet, which actually
made me feel quite proud of myself.
Really?
Sorry.
Did you say proud of yourself?
Yeah, proud of myselfthat I am a media magnet.
(22:03):
You know, I thought you saidmade you feel bad about yourself,
and that kind of brought outsomething that's quite core for me.
It's like I really hate itwhen I make somebody feel bad.
No, I was pleased.
I've got to admit, I've been on everyTV channel before they had all the
others on and Sky and all that lot.
, I've been on, I've been on the BBC andITV and Channel four and all sorts.
(22:24):
I, I do random interviews in the streets.
If somebody pushes amicrophone in my face.
And I'll speak to them.
, And that happened a lot around whenwe had the nacho incident here in
Salisbury, our little mini lockdown
and I was working in a local governmentbuilding and they thought that I
would know everything there wasto know about it, which I didn't.
But I did a lot of talking tocamera during that time, and I
(22:48):
actually quite enjoy doing it.
, It feels like a really surreal thing.
You put a microphone under my noseand ask me a question and I'm off.
Yeah.
You used the word surreal.
I was thinking aboutMonty Python in there.
You get these like characters in thestreet that they would interview,
Vox Pop, and Jules is putting a textthere that you're an influencer now.
It's bizarre how influencer is, evennow a character in television dramas.
(23:11):
They will have the influencer character.
It's so commonplace now and yet.
I don't know anybody who's an influencer,
It does something for me, ego.
I expect , that's about as good as itgets, but I'm not an influencer at all.
I did a, a radio jingle for the localstation, and what else did I do?
(23:31):
Oh gosh, yes.
This guy had, would, had beenout Vox popping on the street.
It's about a local event and somepeople were for it happening and
some of it against, except he saidhe didn't have as many people in the
yes category as he would've liked.
So would it be possible to go onmicrophone and would lie about my opinion?
And I did it
so I did that as well.
(23:51):
But the radio jingle was good.
It's a wee bit like photobombing in the way, isn't it?
It's like you just insertyourself in, in normality.
Being vocal is something I obviously am.
And if there's a space to fillin that little media landscape,
then I, I'm quite happy to do it.
It's like being someone else for the day.
I'm a totally imposter, but I'll do it.
(24:12):
Yeah.
I was listening to a podcast last night.
They were mentioning that phenomenon ofevery little village or town or city.
England, there will be a war memorialand a bunch of punks hanging around it
dressed in the Ry drinking CI or whateverwith the wee dogs on Leeds or string.
I used to hang out around, uhAlgar Square and do the same thing.
(24:35):
By the co column, Nelson's column loadsof sort of punky type sitting around
there, they would get people to pay.
If they wanted photographs of them.
So I tried that for a bit as well,which was quite a fun experience.
You get to dress up stupidand you're going into town
Well, it's 5 44 now, so our drop-inhour is finished, and thank you to all
(24:58):
the people who have texted, and also tothe people who have put their voices to
this that are gonna allow us to put someof those words out into the podcast.
If you join us here at the 4,4, 4, your voice isn't recorded,
your text isn't recorded, but thepeople here have given permission
so that it's an example for others.
(25:19):
See you again.
Always reliably Sunday.
Four four, 4:00 PM Cheers, guys.
Hi there.
Every Sunday a group of autisticpeople get together and drop in.
It's an informal group.
Um, but some of the things thatpeople say deserve a bigger audience,
so they give us permission for usto put them in a an edited reel.
And that's what we are here for today'sedited reel of the conversations
(00:23):
that we have about our own autism.
Cheers, enjoy.
How's it going with you, Lucy?
I was gonna come into both of thosemeetings at , the, , conference, but
for some reason my brain decided tobelieve they were both at the same time.
Like they're gonna be scheduled thesame for every day, and actually
sat in this room for about fiveminutes on my own thinking, and I
(00:46):
think I might have got this wrong.
Oh, did I cock up and notput it on the calendar?
No, I, I, I think you did and I thinkyou explained it well enough . It's more
that I think it's a bit of a me thing.
I was doing other stuff and then Ithought, oh, look, look at the time.
And it was the same time as the daybefore and I thought, that's the
time I think it's scheduled for.
But then I, when I look back, it wasjust me being a bit fuddled with me days.
(01:11):
Yeah, look, don't worry about it.
I, I made so many mistakes.
I was on mute when I shouldn't have beenon mute and all kinds of things that
made me worry that you guys didn't, uh,you know, get a fair shake of things,
but between a lot of us that it couldn'thave done, couldn't have gone better.
What you said, I've now downloadedand I've got it on, and I know
(01:34):
that it's come out nicely, so.
It also made, uh, a real bigdifference in the room, having you
speaking out there at the background.
Interestingly, having you and then alsoRay with a couple of texts, and then
on the next day when Ray was just therewithout texting, it also made a very
valid kind of point to the whole thing.
(01:55):
So, no, nothing, nothingspoiled, anything.
Just really went well.
Brilliant.
It's really good to hear that.
Actually, it's, I, I dunnowhy I was in such a faff.
It was my dentist week.
I still hadn't gone over it.
Yeah.
I did a very similar thing to Lucy.
It was like I was assuming it wouldbe the same time the next day and then
I double checked my, um, calendar.
(02:16):
'cause I had a couple of conflictingthings on and luckily realized
it was earlier, you know, roundabout lunchtime, so tuned in.
What you say about, you know, justbeing kind of silent during that
second one was because I, that wasa way to facilitate what you were
doing because it was going so well.
(02:38):
You know, there was no need toreally, to contribute and it was in
a way, an example of what you weretalking about in that second day.
This idea of shut up andthings, that experience.
So.
Yeah, it wasn't a conscious thing onmy part, it's just the way it went.
It
(02:58):
was
a fortuitous
thing.
Basically, it, it seemed like therewas a really good vibe in the room,
so, and there was a point during thefirst one, I think, where it began to
open up and imagine you felt that too.
Contributions really helped.
Specifically Lucy's one, which wasjust an exemplary, uh, advocacy.
(03:18):
So.
I'm glad you recorded that because thatwas really a good piece she offered there.
Thank you.
I, guess it's just the way thatthe conversation went and trying to
just show them that this is anotherstring to our bow, rather being what
we do all the time, and that if, ifthings come our way, then we will do
(03:40):
them depending on the merits of it.
When I've heard you speak in anadvocacy kind of position, Lucy, that
you, you're almost a natural, I thinkit was discussing it with someone
else recently that, uh, when youknow what you want or kind of, or in
what you want, it just flows becauseit's very meaningful to you and it's,
(04:01):
uh, honest and truthful and natural.
I think it was with my employment advisor.
In fact, I was speaking to this weekabout this idea of like just taking
jobs for the sake of it and actuallytrying to discover one that you want.
And so you have to know what youwant before you can do that, and
(04:22):
I very much feel that it's certaintimes and specifically this time,
I think you knew what you wanted.
Anytime past 11 o'clock in the morning,I'm generally pretty coherent actually.
If it'd been early morning, thenwouldn't have got a sodding thing out me.
But , it just, I just feltthe right place, right time.
It was interesting to be part of it.
(04:43):
I'd do it again.
I think self-esteem wise, . Itwas a really big deal.
I think all of us got a boost out of this.
Self-esteem wise.
We were listened to, wewere part of something.
It was something that we wereachieving together., I really think
it was a valuable thing as autisticpeople to have got this done and made
(05:08):
it happen for our own self-esteem.
And I believe that the biggest real thing.
The biggest crisis in autism of our agegroup is self-esteem and loneliness.
Combined those two things together,
I really wish I could havebeen a fly on the wall.
(05:28):
I, I had wanted to, but it was, it justconflicted with a busy time with work.
So I can't wait to hearwhat you said, Lucy.
One thing I will say is that Iread your substack and realized.
I knew it before, but you're sucha good writer and I'm curious,
who are you in that picture?
(05:49):
Oh, in the picture
of the top?
Is that what you mean?
Yeah, on your substack
this week when you wereon tour with the band.
Okay, so I am sort ofa couple of rows down.
I'm quite near the middle.
Next to a ginger guy, that side of me.
I'm in the middle of that blob, but I look, really different to the way I look now.
But thanks very much for thecompliment on the writing.
(06:11):
It's something that I've reallyenjoyed doing and have been
for a number of, of months.
Well, we've about a year now since Istarted this substack I've learned to
kind of pull my words back a little bit.
And maybe not always override,overriding is a bad thing.
People lose concentration.
So, but I'm, I've learned all these thingsjust by sitting down and doing them.
(06:34):
Yeah, it was really evocativeand you're right, it was short.
But there's somethingelse about your writing.
You just have your own voice and don't,don't think too hard about the writing.
It's so good.
It just is so interesting how vivid it is.
And it can take us down memorylane, even if I've never.
I never was on a tour bus,nor did I sell merchandising.
(06:57):
Maybe when I hold, Ihave cognitive decline.
I'll be telling people I didbecause I read your post.
It's
really funny.
I hope it sticks with you.
If you need to flesh out yourown journey, I could help you.
Yeah, I try and do it in my voice.
I don't try and put too many airsand graces on, I, love doing it.
(07:18):
That, that hit quitebig, that post as well.
I don't do it for money, I do itfor stats 'cause I enjoy those.
And seeing how many people jump on boardand have a read, it tells me how people,
how many people have opened it and things.
And as it starts to rise and morepeople are looking , you feel really
good that you started this thingeven though it was hell to write.
(07:38):
And I left a lot of things out.
Oh gosh.
The other stories, I'llhave to tell you another day
I was thinking, Lucy, as you spoke aboutthe effects of, you know, just being
part of the entourage for the band,you know, I mean fully engaged, but you
know, not exactly the band or performersyourself, the effect it had on you.
(07:59):
How then do you imagine thateffect is for the actual band,
you know, going through all that?
Do you feel that.
Slightly different, kindaplaying the activity with it.
It's a really difficult one herebecause, , I stuck out like a sore thumb.
It was really exciting to be in aplace like that surrounded by people
(08:21):
you really enjoy and have suddenly getthis job, which came outta nowhere.
The rest of the band, I thinkby the time we got to the end of
that tour, everybody was shredded.
It just shreds your brain.,It makes you feel really like
one day rolls into another.
We did 30 days back to back with Ithink one in the middle for a break.
(08:43):
By the time we hit home, it does feel likeyou've gone through this really huge sort
of eviscerating all day, all night, andthere was a lot of drinking, going on.
So it was like, when in myhead, it's like a big mishmash.
And it was such hardwork, really hard work.
But the rest of them could relate to me.
(09:03):
'cause, I just didn't speak.
I think I said in the pacethat I was autistic then as I
am now, I just didn't know it.
And if I could go back and do itagain, I'd probably be just as
unlikely to be talking to people.
But yeah, it's strange.
I didn't speak a lot either., In the highschool I went to absolutely did not speak.
(09:23):
But Lucy, I don't think anybodyever thought I was weird.
Maybe they thought I was shy and, and Iknow you were in a bus, but my husband,
who was sometimes my husband like.
We were not married and then we were,he was in a band, a really big one
13 piece, like jazz fusion band.
(09:44):
And I just be a fly on the wall.
I, I, I was the one who droveand things they didn't, but
I think people
probably just thought you werecool if that were only the way.
No, I, I got a few people on that tourwho, who took an instant dislike to me.
(10:06):
Because I was so hard to get at.
I was completely behind this sortof wall., Other things were going on
the bus and people were chatting andlaughing and doing this and doing
that, and I couldn't open my mouth.
I, I kept saying to myself,but this is your favorite band.
, These are the people you want to be with.
Why can't you speak to them?
And I think it was just my autismand I think that's all it is.
(10:27):
I just decided that I had nothing, to add.
And they were all suchbig personalities as well.
All of them were huge, loud personalities,and I just didn't fit into that mold.
You're still cool.
Thank you.
I'm not, thank you.
We're just about posting the text there.
If no one knows how to communicate withyou, then it's really difficult for us to
(10:48):
fill the gap for them or be communicative.
It's kinda my response to what you weresaying there, Lucy, , you recognize
the situation, and then people willhave an a reaction to you or us and.
Unless we make the effort, it's notgonna happen really, unless those
(11:09):
people out there have an understandingof the quiet person and how to
approach them, or the person who'sfind it difficult to engage socially.
I think this is a tone, which somebodysaid that I was intimidating and
which was something I never thought
I was only very young, very little.
I was probably, oh, where was I?
(11:32):
About 19 years old at that point.
But everybody else was a lot olderand I kind of shrunk in that space.
And that's the thing, it's thatsort of like you shrink away.
They thought maybe I was just beingobtuse and not talking to them
and being a bit rude or something.
But there was a few peopleon that bus, or women by the
(11:53):
way, who, who had to go at me.
Who just said, theysaid they didn't get me.
And they couldn't get over whatever wallit was that I was building in front of me.
So people did communicateto you how they felt?
Yeah, because sometimes we veryoften will fill that gap ourselves
and go, oh, they think this aboutme, they feel this about me.
And we don't know because theyhaven't communicated it to us.
(12:14):
But people were communicating that to you?
If you weren't saying anything, it musthave been an atmosphere or a look because.
That's the thing that came up for me todaywas I noticed some of the young teens
that live around me here, how they'regoing through that identity thing you
do as a teenager where you almost dailyexperiment with clothes and fashion and
(12:35):
appearance and trends, and it's just thisidentity shifting until you find some kind
of identity and it just seems to connectslightly there for me in this thing about
how we are sometimes out in the public.
, If I'm intimidating, I can't thinkwhy, because I feel like I'm the least
intimidating person in the world.
(12:56):
But , maybe I give offthat vibe into the world.
I guess when , you bit more selfassured, it should bounce off you.
No, it was difficult.
I wanted to be everybody's friend,but there was only one member of the
band who who really understood me.
And we used to sit down in the, thelittle cabin bit where we could have
our cups of tea and things and I'dsit with this guy called Jim and we'd
(13:20):
both watch Reeves and on the video.
And that was possibly the bestfriendship I made on that bus.
I remember, I've never been on abus that's really contained, but I
remember being in audiences wherenobody would really know who I was
and that I was with the band actually.
And I remember once the,this row in front of me
(13:45):
I think they thought they were cool.
They were really dressed in this QueenStreet, west Toronto kind of a way,
and I was just, I just dressed in themost boring way, and then one of them
who at least had a big personality,but in my memory, she was also taller
and larger than like, like large.
(14:06):
I saw in my memory.
She turned around and she said, oh.
Can you see over us?
Or is everything going togo over your head anyway?
So not everybody's nice.
So maybe we were right to stay quiet.
But then on the other hand, another timesomebody wanted me to join something where
(14:27):
they really needed another person and thenthey said, oh wow, you're really nice.
We thought you were completely stuck up.
So I guess everybody justthinks what they think.
I guess it doesn't reallymatter what people think.
, I don't care what peoplemake of me anymore.
Back then, maybe I was a little bitmore self-conscious and as for the
(14:48):
way I dressed, that was somethingelse., The clothing I had at the
time, most of it made by me, kept melooking apart from a lot of people
because , I think I wanted to be.
Seen in one way or another, maybeclothing had something to do with it.
That is that thing ofwanting to connect, isn't it?
Regardless of what we say or think,there is this kind of core reality
(15:12):
of seeking some form of connection.
Eh?
I had to cut sleep in a coughing bed.
On these coaches, the beds are so tinyyou can't sit up straight on them.
It was, it's quite an uncomfortableenvironment when I think there was like
30 something odd men and me, and sothe atmosphere on that bus was quite
(15:33):
masculine and they were all joking around.
I think the worst part about itreally is that I was drinking like
crazy to get through that tour.
All the time.
I started as soon as I woke upand stopped when I passed out.
And that was an everyday thing.
You lose yourself completely.
I used to get paid for a jobthat was like a 12 hour day.
(15:56):
I got 20 pounds a day, so Imust have been doing it for the.
Yeah, it doesn't sound like a very healthyenvironment, but there's this thing about,
your admiration for the people involvedand , the volunteering to be there.
That in itself I see as , a formof an attempt to connect to some
kind of, passion say or interest.
(16:17):
Yeah.
, I did really wanna be accepted.
The thing about , that particular bandis that once you're out, you're out.
, so I, I, and I workedreally hard for them.
It wasn't like I wasn't doing the work.
I was good at the work, but I just wasn't,I wasn't up for the loud parties, really.
It was so much booze . So when I gothome afterwards, , I fell asleep and
(16:39):
I fell asleep for a long time 'causeit's the first time I hadn't had to be
aware of my surroundings all the time.
It it kind of washed away some of thatsort of scaredness, because I was drunk
but I love that description youmade of like, how you didn't get
it at first, what they were doing.
And then one day it clicked foryou, you got it, and you were in,
(17:01):
well, my elder brother was playingme this stuff from the age of
about 12, 13 at that point.
And was looking at it andthinking it was terribly yucky,
sort of like a yucky world.
I, I didn't like it.
And I think my brother, usedto play it to me as almost a
little bit of a, as a joke on me.
(17:21):
Oh God, no.
That's horrible.
I don't, I don't like it.
I don't like it.
It finally clicked when I got the ticketto the gig, which he jacked me to.
And then it was like , I walked in andthere was the universe there, there was
this thing that, that I needed to bepart of because everything about it was
so me, it was, it was lovely in parts.
(17:41):
You ran away and joined the circus?
Yeah.
Yeah.
I ran away and joined the circus,but I, if, if, if it was a circus,
I was the cl, the I was one cleaningthe D up from behind the elephants.
Robbie says, I spent mostof my life trying to fit in.
I never worked.
In the end, I stopped trying.
He continues.
(18:02):
People are often afraid of mebecause they think I'm angry when
actually I'm anxious and theyassume that I'm going to be violent.
I think what what Robbie said therein the text is a wee bit similar to
something Lucy was saying too, aboutpeople can get this impression of
you that you're maybe a bit, intense.
(18:24):
I can't really tell fromphotographs of seen Robbie.
, I assume he's quite a tall guy,and, , that itself physical,
impressions people have.
But Robbie's also written there inthe text I have written since 1997,
trying to find a way to connectwith people first with writers
groups, then on Facebook pages.
(18:46):
, Rob's been going over some of his oldpoetry and posts it on Facebook and really
good stuff and it does go way, way back tothen, which is, almost like another world.
The late nineties.
It's not that far away, but it is.
And really we weren so tuned intothe digital world or the internet.
(19:08):
Some of us were, butit wasn't commonplace.
A mode of communication., I reflect backon people I've known in my life through
the eighties and the late seventies andwhat they were doing with their poetry
and self-publishing and stuff like that.
Dropping their stuff in librariesand hiding it here and there, and
(19:29):
then organizing little meetings , andthe way people did things back then.
I've just gotta say, Robbie, Ithink you have more followers
than I have on social media.
I don't think it's the bestmedium to get that kinda response.
, Here am I respondent to whatyou do on social media through
(19:50):
this weird way we connect.
And you're getting a response today thatsomeone has read your poetry, and I'll
sometimes look at some of your postsand see the responses that come in.
And some of them are reallygenuinely, nice and kind,
And people will thinkthat's being negative.
(20:10):
I had conversation week.
That very issue you're talking , aboutsaying no to everything, because that's
the only response you can have , in theform of communication that's going on.
Because what is being offered, it'snot coming near to what you want.
(20:32):
And, I think some of us me particularlywant and know what I want, you know,
sometimes I don't know what I want.
I know what I don't want, andyou can get caught in that loop.
I can.
So I was asking the people at thejob center, get me into a place or
a space where I can have an opencommunication with someone or people
(20:54):
about discovering , what , I want.
But I know you know perfectly wellat times what you want, Robbie.
It's just you find it difficult to accessit.. I just found out today from speaking
to a friend in a local store that evenpeople who have had a diagnosis of A
DHD are still waiting on medication.
(21:18):
We can't access it.
I asked them what the reasonmight be, brexit or something
so that's a supply chain issue.
But I'd always thought the long-termwait for an , A DHD assessment was
the thing that kickstarted youraccess to medication, which is
why a lot of people were on thatwaiting list, but apparently not.
(21:40):
Thanks for that response, Robbie.
That opens up.
Thanks for me that it'smore than medication.
It's adjustments as well.
I was just thinking about thatpost you put up on Facebook for me.
The one about where you said Iwas a media magnet, which actually
made me feel quite proud of myself.
Really?
Sorry.
Did you say proud of yourself?
Yeah, proud of myselfthat I am a media magnet.
(22:03):
You know, I thought you saidmade you feel bad about yourself,
and that kind of brought outsomething that's quite core for me.
It's like I really hate itwhen I make somebody feel bad.
No, I was pleased.
I've got to admit, I've been on everyTV channel before they had all the
others on and Sky and all that lot.
, I've been on, I've been on the BBC andITV and Channel four and all sorts.
(22:24):
I, I do random interviews in the streets.
If somebody pushes amicrophone in my face.
And I'll speak to them.
, And that happened a lot around whenwe had the nacho incident here in
Salisbury, our little mini lockdown
and I was working in a local governmentbuilding and they thought that I
would know everything there wasto know about it, which I didn't.
But I did a lot of talking tocamera during that time, and I
(22:48):
actually quite enjoy doing it.
, It feels like a really surreal thing.
You put a microphone under my noseand ask me a question and I'm off.
Yeah.
You used the word surreal.
I was thinking aboutMonty Python in there.
You get these like characters in thestreet that they would interview,
Vox Pop, and Jules is putting a textthere that you're an influencer now.
It's bizarre how influencer is, evennow a character in television dramas.
(23:11):
They will have the influencer character.
It's so commonplace now and yet.
I don't know anybody who's an influencer,
It does something for me, ego.
I expect , that's about as good as itgets, but I'm not an influencer at all.
I did a, a radio jingle for the localstation, and what else did I do?
(23:31):
Oh gosh, yes.
This guy had, would, had beenout Vox popping on the street.
It's about a local event and somepeople were for it happening and
some of it against, except he saidhe didn't have as many people in the
yes category as he would've liked.
So would it be possible to go onmicrophone and would lie about my opinion?
And I did it
so I did that as well.
(23:51):
But the radio jingle was good.
It's a wee bit like photobombing in the way, isn't it?
It's like you just insertyourself in, in normality.
Being vocal is something I obviously am.
And if there's a space to fillin that little media landscape,
then I, I'm quite happy to do it.
It's like being someone else for the day.
I'm a totally imposter, but I'll do it.
(24:12):
Yeah.
I was listening to a podcast last night.
They were mentioning that phenomenon ofevery little village or town or city.
England, there will be a war memorialand a bunch of punks hanging around it
dressed in the Ry drinking CI or whateverwith the wee dogs on Leeds or string.
I used to hang out around, uhAlgar Square and do the same thing.
(24:35):
By the co column, Nelson's column loadsof sort of punky type sitting around
there, they would get people to pay.
If they wanted photographs of them.
So I tried that for a bit as well,which was quite a fun experience.
You get to dress up stupidand you're going into town
Well, it's 5 44 now, so our drop-inhour is finished, and thank you to all
(24:58):
the people who have texted, and also tothe people who have put their voices to
this that are gonna allow us to put someof those words out into the podcast.
If you join us here at the 4,4, 4, your voice isn't recorded,
your text isn't recorded, but thepeople here have given permission
so that it's an example for others.
(25:19):
See you again.
Always reliably Sunday.
Four four, 4:00 PM Cheers, guys.
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