February 9, 2025 • 37 mins
"Autistics don't travel." "It's too much for us "
"We're a disabled group ! " Well not always....
Alex Stratikis from Autism Adventures Abroad joins Jules to announce his new project. An opportunity to join adventurous group travel with other Autistic people.
Autism Adventures Abroad Website
Facebook · Autism Adventures Abroad Alex Stratikis ✌🏼🌎 ✈️ (@autismadventuresabroad) Instagram Divergent Adventures Autistic Group TripsNicola-Autistic-Radio.com
Shares with Jules in India different and similar takes on the Travel Experience.
Do you have a thought on Travel for Nicola to Share?
She looks forward to including you for her new series.
Episode ONE Link Episode TWO link Episode THREE Link Episode FOUR Link
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Slow conversations that we have about our own autism with lots of silences. (edited out here)
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Jules-AutisticRadio.com (2):
We speak our words, we listen, (00:00):
undefined
we speak our words, we listen.
We speak our words.
We listen.
We speak our words.
We listen.
Thank you for tuning
Jules-AutisticRadio.com: in to Autistic Radio. (00:19):
undefined
And also, thank you to the people whohave contacted me to say how they enjoyed
the first two programmes in this series.
That encourages us to,put out more of these.
When we first started talking abouttravel, we spoke to the expert, Alex thank
you for joining us on artistic radio.
(00:42):
Hi, Alex.
Where are you now?
Alex-Stratikis-Autism-Adventures-Abroad: Hello. (00:44):
undefined
I'm, currently in Melbourne,Australia, where I'm now living.
Jules-AutisticRadio.com (00:51):
Wow.
you're in Melbourne, Australia.
I'm sitting on a floor in a crappymotel room in a at the end of a
railway line somewhere in India.
if there were two people outthere that prove that there's a
lie in Autistics Don't Travel,
Jules-AutisticRadio.com (2): it's us, isn't it? (01:10):
undefined
Definitely, yeah.
I've been told that as well,
are you trying some new places?
India's huge.
Jules-AutisticRadio.com (01:22):
You can't get your head around
it, looking at just a map.
Every time you move from one placeto another, you enter a new country.
The clichés that you seein the travel brochures.
Don't feel as though theyhave any connection to the
reality that you experience.
Alex-Stratikis-Autism-Adventures-Abroad: I find that about a lot of (01:45):
undefined
destinations, , it's like the internetversus reality, those sorts of memes.
Much better to sort of lower myexpectations when going somewhere
and see what it's like for myself.
Obviously doing the proper, researchand pre planning is important, but
lowering your expectations abouthow the place will be itself.
(02:06):
Do you find that helped you with India
Jules-AutisticRadio.com (02:10):
I'm going to upset you here, Alex, because, I
reminded myself of all the differentpieces of advice you gave in the
podcasts we recorded together.
I didn't pre plan anything except
Jules-AutisticRadio.com (2) (02:23):
the
Jules-AutisticRadio.com: flight into Mumbai. (02:24):
undefined
This is a completely different partof India from where I ended up before.
The two cheapest places to fly into fromthe UK are Delhi, the big city of the
North and Mumbai in the central area.
I'd already gone to Delhi.
So now I went to Mumbai, all I had.
(02:45):
When I arrived was the idea that Iwould go vaguely south on the trains.
You look at the map and you think there'sthe possibility of going anywhere.
The trains can take youall the way to Kolkata.
They can take you east coast to west coast
(03:10):
, one journey was just to get the hellout of, Mumbai as quickly as possible.
So I ended up in a place called Pune.
Punen is a destination thatpeople go to from India.
It has a long history of,
Maharajahs forts being built andall kinds of long term history.
(03:33):
But when I got there, Itwas nothing like that.
All I had the information of peoplein the plane saying you should go to
Pune, because it has these temples.
When I got there, I found Armageddon.
Jules-AutisticRadio.com (2) (03:52):
Not what it should have been, a disappointment almost
I
can't be disappointed.
Alex-Stratikis-Autism-Adventures-Abroad: Yep. (03:59):
undefined
That's true.
Jules-AutisticRadio.com (04:03):
The chap on the plane who gave me a list of
things I might want to do and see.
On a plane to Mumbai, I think therewas only two white people around me.
So you strike up a conversation,people are interested to talk to you.
They want to tell youabout the destination.
They want to tell youabout their home world.
(04:25):
So I took a list from one of my fellowtravelers and when I got to Pune, I looked
at the list and I looked at Google maps.
And everything was either so far outof the city, isolated on its own,
(04:50):
or it felt as though that wasn'treally what I wanted to do.
It was a white version of India.
It was the version of India he wantedto show me so that I would feel that
it was Fitting the Hollywood imagekind of thing, and that never suits me.
Alex-Stratikis-Autism-Adventures-Abroad: For me personally, I find when (05:13):
undefined
traveling, it's always good to hearadvice from locals, they're always
going to show you the better side oftheir country or, area it's definitely
important to make up your own mindand decisions when traveling as well.
(05:33):
I, even if I hear like a bad,bad stories it's got a bad
reputation, some people might say
it doesn't put me off from goingto that place or trying it.
I have a very large bucket listand, once it's on the bucket list,
it's not coming off until I'vebeen there or seen it for myself.
Jules-AutisticRadio.com (05:52):
Yeah, but then as autistics, we're supposed to
be people who, are rigid, aren't we?
And what you were saying andwhat I seem to be saying is that.
We want to be surprised . Maybebecause we're autistics.
We're not willing to just take whateverybody else says about something.
We want to see it for ourselves.
Alex-Stratikis-Autism-Adventures-Abroad: Yeah, absolutely. (06:15):
undefined
I think, you know, comes down to like, Iguess a lot of us being visual learners.
Like a hands on approach,hearing it from someone,
just doesn't form anything meaningfulwithin your brain, it's just words.
it doesn't really meananything until you've actually
(06:37):
experienced it for yourself.
That's how I live my life in manyregards, not just with travel.
About being rigid . When Ifirst started traveling, I was.
With itineraries and, overplanning, but now it's much more
calming for me just to let go ofall of that and go with the flow.
(07:00):
You only booked the flight into.
The airport and everythingelse came after that.
That's the way I like to go.
Unless it's some things you needto book because it's high season
Jules-AutisticRadio.com (07:11):
I feel as though the things I need to book in
advance because it's high season.
I probably don't want to do anyway becauseThey're gonna be so crowded and it's gonna
be so rigid in the way you experience it.
It's gonna be tour guides.
It's gonna be People badgering youto buy this and push you on that
(07:31):
and this is what you must do whenyou're there I don't like all that.
I don't like being toldwhat to do by other people.
Is that The autistic part of the travelexperience that we don't want to be
told and funneled into these things.
Alex-Stratikis-Autism-Adventures-Abroad: Yeah, I try and avoid crowded places, (07:48):
undefined
if it is somewhere I've wanted to go,cut it short avoid the places , or
the attractions , Insanely largelines, and you can hardly move.
Sometimes I put up with itbecause it has been something
I really wanted to see or do.
Generally speaking, I wouldavoid or, keep them to a minimum.
The places that turn out to bethe ones I like best are off the
(08:12):
beaten track , those are the onesthat usually end up being the most.
Surprising to me, they really,leave a lasting impression.
, you aren't really competingwith a lot more travelers.
You're often getting to seethe real side , just enjoy the
(08:33):
environment for what it truly is.
. It is immersion.
Jules-AutisticRadio.com (08:38):
Yeah.
This phrase, the real India.
Really gets under my skin because peopleuse that when they're bragging about
their experiences when they get back home.
It feels to me as though that's aneurotypical thing, that if they get
one of these strange experiences wherethey actually connect with somebody
(09:03):
locally, that's all they go on about.
They feel as though they'vereally got into something.
My experience in different countries.
Is that, that's a bit of a con as well.
If I was to say what the real Indiawas right now, I would say it was a
country struggling with modernity.
(09:27):
It's a place where everything is beingbuilt and everything is being destroyed.
And the local people are victims in that.
The local people are, living under alayer of concrete dust and pollution.
When you arrive at any of these townsat an early morning, the first smell
(09:53):
that hits you is not fragrant spices andbeautiful, aromas from wild, open forests.
It's the reek of burning plastic,The fires by the side of the road
where people have burnt their rubbishovernight are still smouldering.
(10:17):
the next set of pollution starts with
Jules-AutisticRadio.com (2): vehicle pollution. (10:21):
undefined
The diesel choke and all of those
hauling, experiences.
Jules-AutisticRadio.com (10:33):
then the next layer that comes on top of
that is the construction smell ofall of the cement and the dust from
the old buildings being ripped downand the new concrete structures
of steel and glass being put up.
Jules-AutisticRadio.com (2): The smell here is not about (10:52):
undefined
Jules-AutisticRadio.com (10:55):
beautiful, wonderful, aromatic India.
It's about destructive capitalismand the pollution of the world
in my experience at the moment.
Alex-Stratikis-Autism-Adventures-Abroad: I think you've made a very good point. (11:07):
undefined
Tying in with what I was saying about,experiencing things for yourself.there's
so much media presence talking aboutall these different countries and
destinations that we haven't been, andsometimes it could be overly positive
and sometimes overly negative, but wedon't really get a lot of neutrality or
(11:28):
difference in perspectives or opinions.
Getting to see the world forwhat it really is and not just,
Secondhand information from themedia the internet or your friends.
Everyone's going to have their ownopinions on a specific country or
destination, but those don't hold anytrue value until you've been there, to
(11:50):
experience, life there, that culture.
Jules-AutisticRadio.com (2) (11:54):
It feels like we use travel to get perspective
other people are trying to offer you
Jules-AutisticRadio.com (12:04):
their version, their perspective.
it feels very autistic for me to getunder the skin subvert it and see behind
the facade, the workings of everything.
Now, It's not just the difficultieshere, because if you're in a place like
(12:27):
I am at the moment, there is so muchinterest beauty and colour amongst it.
the human spirit
Jules-AutisticRadio.com (2) (12:36):
is relentless in its attempt to not just
survive, but to bring forth wonder.
When I arrived, I got off a train and
Jules-AutisticRadio.com (12:58):
during the night I was in a packed carriage of people
lying on shelves, effectively, in apacked railway carriage where the doors
were locked and the windows were covered.
It was like being cattle.
But within it, the peoplethemselves had wrapped themselves
(13:23):
In colored blankets, and theywere like chrysalises lying there.
The next morning, as people emerged andbrought themselves forward, they emerged
like wondrous butterflies, some of them.
The women in theseincredible silks and saris.
(13:45):
I opened my eyes at the wrongtime, and a family opposite me
had got themselves up, and theywere sitting in a row opposite me.
All three of them, two women, Iassume the mother, the daughter
and the dad, protecting themin between, sitting solidly.
When I say I opened my eyes atthe wrong time, it was because
(14:09):
not knowing that they were Muslim,
Jules-AutisticRadio.com (2) (14:12):
they had been caught before they had covered up.
And
Jules-AutisticRadio.com (14:20):
so I caught that moment where The ladies were
just wrapping their heads to coverthemselves from the gaze of men.
The beautiful faces
Jules-AutisticRadio.com (2): were then hidden (14:34):
undefined
Jules-AutisticRadio.com (14:36):
from
Jules-AutisticRadio.com (2) (14:37):
me
Jules-AutisticRadio.com (14:37):
in an instant.
And all I could see was avague idea of some eyes as I
turned away to give privacy.
Jules-AutisticRadio.com (2): It's amazing to see how people (14:49):
undefined
Jules-AutisticRadio.com (14:55):
work through these difficulties and make something
of themselves in the decoration ofthemselves and their own protection,
wrapping themselves away from theworld that they then walk into.
as they walk along the platform, as theyspill out in their numbers, Like kites
Jules-AutisticRadio.com (2): in the sky, almost. (15:20):
undefined
They are amongst
filth dirt degradation, plastic andbuilders rubble and broken pavements.
They walk along like colourand interest, Rising above it.
(15:48):
I
Jules-AutisticRadio.com (15:48):
find that fascinating about the human
condition when you're traveling.
Alex-Stratikis-Autism-Adventures-Abroad: You're giving a rounded perspective. (15:54):
undefined
It's not just the good.
It's also the bad.
I've encountered someone onInstagram they made a post 10
reasons you should not visit Malta.
From the perspective of someoneliving in Malta at the time, as a
foreigner, they weren't from Malta.
How dirty it was, the trash, the rubbish.
(16:17):
My experience of Malta was sodifferent, but, for them to say,
this is why you shouldn't visit.
It was just taking aspects of, a beautifulcountry because you didn't like your
experience living there and tellingeveryone there's no reason to visit it.
I haven't been to India, but I feel thesame way, there's so much, beauty and rich
(16:38):
culture, amazing food, a depth of history.
And I think that can't be ignored.
That would be enough reason for me to.
Hopefully visit India someday.
Jules-AutisticRadio.com (16:51):
I'm so glad you say that because it
sounds at the moment as though I'msaying don't visit and I'm not.
I'm absolutely not.
I think what people can experiencethough is so much more than
the expectation they're given.
if they come with a certain expectation,then they will only find that , they
(17:15):
will be channeled towards that.
But if they come with an expectationthat they're going to have to overcome
some difficulty and they're going tosee some things they don't want to see.
But amongst it, they willsee incredible sights.
Then that's different.
For me, it's why are we traveling?
(17:36):
Are we traveling to go back home andtell people that we're either special
because we're a traveler, or are wetraveling for the reason of being in
a different place, getting out of yournormal world and having a two week
(17:58):
part of, life that is just comfortable.
A holiday from life andthat's perfectly valid.
I do that myself and I'vedone it often enough.
Or is there something elsethat we can get from travel.
I think we can live it as life and liveit a bit more along the same ways as
(18:19):
the people around us when we get there.
That should perhaps be difficult,be eye opening, but give us
something to take with us backhome to understand our own world.
Alex-Stratikis-Autism-Adventures-Abroad: I do want to, get out of my comfort (18:35):
undefined
zone when I travel and I do want tosee, these different, amazing, sites
and natural wonders, there's so muchyou can learn along the way and,
hopefully meet some amazing people,
(18:55):
the hard part, is getting there.
Everything else comes afterwards,and getting to be somewhere different
from what you're used to andhaving the privilege to experience
that is, something in itself,
Jules-AutisticRadio.com (19:13):
If it's set up for people as an industry
from the place that you're going totourism is an industry and it caters
for a specific kind of tourist andyou're going as a consumer of that,
that's buying a service there's, there'snothing wrong with those kind of things.
(19:33):
I mean, there are issues around them.
They do destroy, parts of the world.
That should be controlled.
That should be looked after.
, maybe it's because we're autistic,that those organized ways of
being a tourist, don't feel right.
comfortable to us becauseit's the big group experience.
(19:55):
Maybe it's just that we're outsiders.
And so the outsider has todo it in a different way.
I don't think we shouldbe snobbish about it.
And I think maybe when I wasyounger, I might have been.
I might have been a bit chippy on myshoulder to say, Oh, I want to see this
in a real way rather than a tourist way.
(20:17):
I think I've let go of that now.
, , Just , maybe I just can't do itthe way that other people do it.
Maybe I just can't be involvedin the group in the same way.
And I'm no longer willing to mask upand be of party world and get myself
drunk and be along with a group.
(20:38):
Maybe I just need to be out on myown, experiencing things in a very
raw way, because I'm autistic.
That's it.
Alex-Stratikis-Autism-Adventures-Abroad: What we talk about and experience (20:48):
undefined
and travel can be related or carriedover into, , your daily life.
Stepping out your comfortzone and trying new things
Jules-AutisticRadio.com (21:01):
when I get the reactions through autistic radio, I get
the sense that an awful lot of autisticpeople are Unwilling to see travel as
something that they want to do becauseit feels like they have to conform again.
They have to mask up and be partof everybody else's vision of
(21:24):
things and maybe doing it inan unusual way, in an odd way.
taking the rough with the smoothand seeing the diamonds in the crap.
Maybe that's a way for autistic peopleto be less concerned about travel.
Maybe the reason we don't travelas much as non autistic people
(21:51):
is because of the whole groupthing and we can escape from that.
Maybe doing it like thisis an escape from that.
. Alex-Stratikis-Autism-Adventures-Abroad: I also have several friends (22:00):
undefined
that now are starting to
Jules-AutisticRadio.com (2) (22:04):
engage in, , organized trips, Intrepid or Contiki.
Alex-Stratikis-Autism-Adventures-Abroad: Pre determined, more confined, (22:13):
undefined
a lot of autistic people.
Want to be able to do theirown thing not conform.
I love solo travel so muchbecause there's so little
compromise, you're just traveling
in a way that works for you and doing thethings that you want to do without anyone
(22:34):
else saying, oh, but I want to do thisor we should go here instead when you
meet people along the way, you have thatoption to, do whatever you want with them,
but it's so easy just to say no, , freetravel is understanding my own boundaries
and being able to say no to things,especially within, a larger group setting.
(22:55):
When you mentioned the masking, howsome people felt that they might
have to mask more, because I'vecome across a few autistic travelers
who have said the opposite theyfind they can let go of their mask.
Obviously not fully, but, they findit much easier to be comfortable.
Being there, you know, authenticself, while traveling, within a
(23:18):
country or culture further removeda different language that's spoken.
I think, as a foreigner or as a tourist,your expectations of how you should be.
Are greatly lowered from, you know,the locals or the under travelers
because, you know, they're not expectingeveryone to be the same as them.
People do expect differences.
(23:40):
. No one is going to be
on the prowl to look out for,
Jules-AutisticRadio.com (2): autistic traits I find it easier (23:46):
undefined
to be myself traveling solo
Alex-Stratikis-Autism-Adventures-Abroad (23:52):
I know if it's someone i'm not really Liking
the vibe of just to like, you know, oh,well, there's plenty more people around
here, I don't have to stick with them.
Jules-AutisticRadio.com (24:03):
Yeah, i've been thinking about this masking
thing , you know, I'm an old man now.
The pressure on me to maskback home is negligible.
I don't think it's been the imperativethroughout my life that it has been to
the harm of other people that I know,that I speak to on autistic radio.
It feels as though I've been privilegedand less affected in so many ways.
(24:30):
The prop of masking,the crutch of masking.
That you can develop anduse in your life back home.
It's not here.
You don't have it.
It's not that you don'thave to do it anymore.
It just doesn't work.
(24:50):
Whatever you've constructed to mask upno longer works for you because it's
inappropriate to the situation you're in.
So there's a blessed
Jules-AutisticRadio.com (2): freedom in that it's taken away (25:04):
undefined
from you and you don't miss it.
I think for me as
Alex-Stratikis-Autism-Adventures-Abroad: well, kind of in line with that, (25:14):
undefined
travel should be about freedom.
It's breaking out from, the norm.
It's about seeing, things you wouldn'tnormally experience things that
you can't do in your daily life.
I think that's something,a lot of people find.
That's one of the reasonspeople catch the travel bug.
(25:38):
I'm not sure if you feel that way.
Having been to a few destinationsnow and being back in India as well.
Life is very constricting andthere's so much heavy stuff going on.
And as.
Someone who's autistic, I thinkthere is a lot more weighing
heavily upon us, in various regards.
(26:00):
And I think travel is just, lettinggo of all of that and remembering all
the, good stuff that is happening.
In the world, or the beauty within theworld itself, focusing on the smaller
details, getting to appreciate, thefiner things in life, there is a lot of
beauty that goes, missed within all the
Jules-AutisticRadio.com (2) (26:21):
mess that's happening in the world right now.
Jules-AutisticRadio.com (26:25):
That's interesting that you say that, because
I do describe this place as part of themess that's going on with the world,
finding the beauty within it, inthe small details at the same time.
is a really good positive wayof feeling about the world.
(26:48):
And in travel you do see that.
You see the kindness.
You see people supporting each other.
You see people reaching outto a stranger, helping you.
It does bring you a sense of humanitythat is including you as an autistic
person in perhaps the way that youdon't feel in your own society.
(27:12):
In your own society, you might feelas though everybody else is excluding
and pushing against you, but whenyou travel, you get those experiences
where people hold out their hand andlift you up, or they try to find a
way of explaining something to you,because you can't do the language.
This constant feeling that other people,for their own benefit, Sense of worth
(27:35):
and their own feeling are reachingout to you is possibly the opposite
of what you're experiencing back home.
So it's a respite from lookingat the world as a terrible way.
Ironically, at the same timeas pushing your face into the
Alex-Stratikis-Autism-Adventures-Abroad: dirt. (27:53):
undefined
Travel is, confronting, someof the things that might not be
as pleasant as travel brochuresand, Instagram pages make out but
you can't find beauty within, Theseplaces, I have a lot of special interests.
I love, archaeology andarchitecture, nature as well.
(28:17):
there's so much within a placewhere you can retreat to when,
things are getting a bit much.
Jules-AutisticRadio.com: Yeah, I go with you on that. (28:26):
undefined
I was in satara a few days ago, and I hungout there for a while so that I became,
part of the furniture forthe little hotel I was in.
the guy took me out on hisscooty, to show me a few places.
(28:46):
one of the final destinationswas The river where people
are cremated out in the open.
The river where people were washing theirclothes, coming down from the other side.
there was a temple there that hadbeen there for several centuries.
(29:10):
next to the temple, an ancient treethat he said that his father always
said to him, it has always lookedlike this, it has always looked
this old, always looked permanent.
And just within that little microcosmof slightly being outside the
(29:32):
city, in its haze of pollution,there were these beautiful.
peaceful spaces.
No ticket touts, no tour guides,a few local people who had put
their finery on to photograph eachother, he said, pre wedding photos.
(29:54):
They'd gone to use the backgroundof this beautiful old place.
And there's a sense when youcome across these places that
Literally millions of human souls.
Jules-AutisticRadio.com (2): Have been there before (30:14):
undefined
Jules-AutisticRadio.com (30:17):
either to worship or to mourn or just the
normal thing of everyday washingof their clothes in the river.
You can only get the experienceof those places if you go to them.
And discover them, you can't findthem necessarily on your own doorstep.
(30:37):
travel is necessary to havethese intense experiences.
Alex-Stratikis-Autism-Adventures-Abroad: Yeah, definitely. (30:42):
undefined
a lot of us are visual and tactile.
Learners, it's a very hands on approachto comprehend, what's in front of us.
It's 1 thing to hear something, butto experience it for yourself, you
maybe can't process the emotions.
(31:03):
Behind it until you're in thatenvironment itself and confronted with it.
I do think that's one of the great thingsabout travel as well it can be emotional.
There's so many differentthings, confronting you and it's
right there in front of you.
You have to.
Take it for what it is, whetheryou like it or not, travel
(31:24):
as an experience can never be
Jules-AutisticRadio.com (2) (31:26):
replaced.
Jules-AutisticRadio.com (31:32):
So Alex, what's going on with Autism Adventures Abroad.
You've been some places and you'vebeen setting up some things.
It's a little while since we spoke, Alex,and that's a shame, because people here
on Autistic Radio want to hear about you.
Alex-Stratikis-Autism-Adventures-Abroad: 2024 was, a big year. (31:50):
undefined
. I took a trip in November to the US, I'm currently partnering with,
divergent adventures in the U S.
They're based in Arizona and we'reto get, autistic group trips.
My business partner, has a lot ofexperience, doing these, including
(32:13):
people with different disabilities.
That's something to keep an eye out for.
. I was at an accessibilityconference for tourism.
That was an amazing experiencegetting to be in the same
Jules-AutisticRadio.com (2): room as, so many, (32:26):
undefined
professionals
Alex-Stratikis-Autism-Adventures-Abroad: Disability influencers, and key players (32:33):
undefined
in the accessible tourism space.
, it exceeded definitely all expectations.
There is a lot of followups to do,I'm hoping for the best for 2025.
Jules-AutisticRadio.com (32:49):
We talked about earlier saying that maybe autistic people
don't want to be in a group setting,but that's a mixed group setting.
If what you're arranging is thatautistic people perhaps get the first
opportunity to be amongst a lot ofother autistic people by traveling
at the same time, that sounds likea wonderful experience for them.
(33:10):
The kind of people that want toexperience, travel, if they listen to
some of your broadcasts from autisticradio to get a sense of why to travel
and how other people are traveling,I think that could encourage them.
, Alex-Stratikis-Autism-Adventures-Abroad: absolutely. (33:27):
undefined
the whole point of these trips is to beAs accessible and inclusive as possible.
We all have different, needs andaccommodations the world is a big place.
Arizona is, just a small fraction of that.
We're looking at, variousdestinations ., we're speaking
to some of the organizationsthat are doing it for different
disabilities and they've made it work.
Jules-AutisticRadio.com (33:49):
That's the end
Jules-AutisticRadio.com (2): of this episode (33:50):
undefined
of autistic traveling.
If there's anything here that'sinspired you and you want to
Jules-AutisticRadio.com (34:01):
find a way of traveling, that's guided by other
people, made accessible for you.
I suggest you speak to Alexat Autism Adventures Abroad.
Alex, where do they contact you?
Alex-Stratikis-Autism-Adventures-Abroad: Yeah, so you can find me (34:17):
undefined
at autismadventuresabroad.
com.
Also find me on Facebook and Instagramunder Autism Adventures Abroad if you
want more information on the grouptrips, you can go to DivergentAdventures.
com
undefined
we speak our words, we listen.
We speak our words.
We listen.
We speak our words.
We listen.
Thank you for tuning
Jules-AutisticRadio.com: in to Autistic Radio. (00:19):
undefined
And also, thank you to the people whohave contacted me to say how they enjoyed
the first two programmes in this series.
That encourages us to,put out more of these.
When we first started talking abouttravel, we spoke to the expert, Alex thank
you for joining us on artistic radio.
(00:42):
Hi, Alex.
Where are you now?
Alex-Stratikis-Autism-Adventures-Abroad: Hello. (00:44):
undefined
I'm, currently in Melbourne,Australia, where I'm now living.
Jules-AutisticRadio.com (00:51):
Wow.
you're in Melbourne, Australia.
I'm sitting on a floor in a crappymotel room in a at the end of a
railway line somewhere in India.
if there were two people outthere that prove that there's a
lie in Autistics Don't Travel,
Jules-AutisticRadio.com (2): it's us, isn't it? (01:10):
undefined
Definitely, yeah.
I've been told that as well,
are you trying some new places?
India's huge.
Jules-AutisticRadio.com (01:22):
You can't get your head around
it, looking at just a map.
Every time you move from one placeto another, you enter a new country.
The clichés that you seein the travel brochures.
Don't feel as though theyhave any connection to the
reality that you experience.
Alex-Stratikis-Autism-Adventures-Abroad: I find that about a lot of (01:45):
undefined
destinations, , it's like the internetversus reality, those sorts of memes.
Much better to sort of lower myexpectations when going somewhere
and see what it's like for myself.
Obviously doing the proper, researchand pre planning is important, but
lowering your expectations abouthow the place will be itself.
(02:06):
Do you find that helped you with India
Jules-AutisticRadio.com (02:10):
I'm going to upset you here, Alex, because, I
reminded myself of all the differentpieces of advice you gave in the
podcasts we recorded together.
I didn't pre plan anything except
Jules-AutisticRadio.com (2) (02:23):
the
Jules-AutisticRadio.com: flight into Mumbai. (02:24):
undefined
This is a completely different partof India from where I ended up before.
The two cheapest places to fly into fromthe UK are Delhi, the big city of the
North and Mumbai in the central area.
I'd already gone to Delhi.
So now I went to Mumbai, all I had.
(02:45):
When I arrived was the idea that Iwould go vaguely south on the trains.
You look at the map and you think there'sthe possibility of going anywhere.
The trains can take youall the way to Kolkata.
They can take you east coast to west coast
(03:10):
, one journey was just to get the hellout of, Mumbai as quickly as possible.
So I ended up in a place called Pune.
Punen is a destination thatpeople go to from India.
It has a long history of,
Maharajahs forts being built andall kinds of long term history.
(03:33):
But when I got there, Itwas nothing like that.
All I had the information of peoplein the plane saying you should go to
Pune, because it has these temples.
When I got there, I found Armageddon.
Jules-AutisticRadio.com (2) (03:52):
Not what it should have been, a disappointment almost
I
can't be disappointed.
Alex-Stratikis-Autism-Adventures-Abroad: Yep. (03:59):
undefined
That's true.
Jules-AutisticRadio.com (04:03):
The chap on the plane who gave me a list of
things I might want to do and see.
On a plane to Mumbai, I think therewas only two white people around me.
So you strike up a conversation,people are interested to talk to you.
They want to tell youabout the destination.
They want to tell youabout their home world.
(04:25):
So I took a list from one of my fellowtravelers and when I got to Pune, I looked
at the list and I looked at Google maps.
And everything was either so far outof the city, isolated on its own,
(04:50):
or it felt as though that wasn'treally what I wanted to do.
It was a white version of India.
It was the version of India he wantedto show me so that I would feel that
it was Fitting the Hollywood imagekind of thing, and that never suits me.
Alex-Stratikis-Autism-Adventures-Abroad: For me personally, I find when (05:13):
undefined
traveling, it's always good to hearadvice from locals, they're always
going to show you the better side oftheir country or, area it's definitely
important to make up your own mindand decisions when traveling as well.
(05:33):
I, even if I hear like a bad,bad stories it's got a bad
reputation, some people might say
it doesn't put me off from goingto that place or trying it.
I have a very large bucket listand, once it's on the bucket list,
it's not coming off until I'vebeen there or seen it for myself.
Jules-AutisticRadio.com (05:52):
Yeah, but then as autistics, we're supposed to
be people who, are rigid, aren't we?
And what you were saying andwhat I seem to be saying is that.
We want to be surprised . Maybebecause we're autistics.
We're not willing to just take whateverybody else says about something.
We want to see it for ourselves.
Alex-Stratikis-Autism-Adventures-Abroad: Yeah, absolutely. (06:15):
undefined
I think, you know, comes down to like, Iguess a lot of us being visual learners.
Like a hands on approach,hearing it from someone,
just doesn't form anything meaningfulwithin your brain, it's just words.
it doesn't really meananything until you've actually
(06:37):
experienced it for yourself.
That's how I live my life in manyregards, not just with travel.
About being rigid . When Ifirst started traveling, I was.
With itineraries and, overplanning, but now it's much more
calming for me just to let go ofall of that and go with the flow.
(07:00):
You only booked the flight into.
The airport and everythingelse came after that.
That's the way I like to go.
Unless it's some things you needto book because it's high season
Jules-AutisticRadio.com (07:11):
I feel as though the things I need to book in
advance because it's high season.
I probably don't want to do anyway becauseThey're gonna be so crowded and it's gonna
be so rigid in the way you experience it.
It's gonna be tour guides.
It's gonna be People badgering youto buy this and push you on that
(07:31):
and this is what you must do whenyou're there I don't like all that.
I don't like being toldwhat to do by other people.
Is that The autistic part of the travelexperience that we don't want to be
told and funneled into these things.
Alex-Stratikis-Autism-Adventures-Abroad: Yeah, I try and avoid crowded places, (07:48):
undefined
if it is somewhere I've wanted to go,cut it short avoid the places , or
the attractions , Insanely largelines, and you can hardly move.
Sometimes I put up with itbecause it has been something
I really wanted to see or do.
Generally speaking, I wouldavoid or, keep them to a minimum.
The places that turn out to bethe ones I like best are off the
(08:12):
beaten track , those are the onesthat usually end up being the most.
Surprising to me, they really,leave a lasting impression.
, you aren't really competingwith a lot more travelers.
You're often getting to seethe real side , just enjoy the
(08:33):
environment for what it truly is.
. It is immersion.
Jules-AutisticRadio.com (08:38):
Yeah.
This phrase, the real India.
Really gets under my skin because peopleuse that when they're bragging about
their experiences when they get back home.
It feels to me as though that's aneurotypical thing, that if they get
one of these strange experiences wherethey actually connect with somebody
(09:03):
locally, that's all they go on about.
They feel as though they'vereally got into something.
My experience in different countries.
Is that, that's a bit of a con as well.
If I was to say what the real Indiawas right now, I would say it was a
country struggling with modernity.
(09:27):
It's a place where everything is beingbuilt and everything is being destroyed.
And the local people are victims in that.
The local people are, living under alayer of concrete dust and pollution.
When you arrive at any of these townsat an early morning, the first smell
(09:53):
that hits you is not fragrant spices andbeautiful, aromas from wild, open forests.
It's the reek of burning plastic,The fires by the side of the road
where people have burnt their rubbishovernight are still smouldering.
(10:17):
the next set of pollution starts with
Jules-AutisticRadio.com (2): vehicle pollution. (10:21):
undefined
The diesel choke and all of those
hauling, experiences.
Jules-AutisticRadio.com (10:33):
then the next layer that comes on top of
that is the construction smell ofall of the cement and the dust from
the old buildings being ripped downand the new concrete structures
of steel and glass being put up.
Jules-AutisticRadio.com (2): The smell here is not about (10:52):
undefined
Jules-AutisticRadio.com (10:55):
beautiful, wonderful, aromatic India.
It's about destructive capitalismand the pollution of the world
in my experience at the moment.
Alex-Stratikis-Autism-Adventures-Abroad: I think you've made a very good point. (11:07):
undefined
Tying in with what I was saying about,experiencing things for yourself.there's
so much media presence talking aboutall these different countries and
destinations that we haven't been, andsometimes it could be overly positive
and sometimes overly negative, but wedon't really get a lot of neutrality or
(11:28):
difference in perspectives or opinions.
Getting to see the world forwhat it really is and not just,
Secondhand information from themedia the internet or your friends.
Everyone's going to have their ownopinions on a specific country or
destination, but those don't hold anytrue value until you've been there, to
(11:50):
experience, life there, that culture.
Jules-AutisticRadio.com (2) (11:54):
It feels like we use travel to get perspective
other people are trying to offer you
Jules-AutisticRadio.com (12:04):
their version, their perspective.
it feels very autistic for me to getunder the skin subvert it and see behind
the facade, the workings of everything.
Now, It's not just the difficultieshere, because if you're in a place like
(12:27):
I am at the moment, there is so muchinterest beauty and colour amongst it.
the human spirit
Jules-AutisticRadio.com (2) (12:36):
is relentless in its attempt to not just
survive, but to bring forth wonder.
When I arrived, I got off a train and
Jules-AutisticRadio.com (12:58):
during the night I was in a packed carriage of people
lying on shelves, effectively, in apacked railway carriage where the doors
were locked and the windows were covered.
It was like being cattle.
But within it, the peoplethemselves had wrapped themselves
(13:23):
In colored blankets, and theywere like chrysalises lying there.
The next morning, as people emerged andbrought themselves forward, they emerged
like wondrous butterflies, some of them.
The women in theseincredible silks and saris.
(13:45):
I opened my eyes at the wrongtime, and a family opposite me
had got themselves up, and theywere sitting in a row opposite me.
All three of them, two women, Iassume the mother, the daughter
and the dad, protecting themin between, sitting solidly.
When I say I opened my eyes atthe wrong time, it was because
(14:09):
not knowing that they were Muslim,
Jules-AutisticRadio.com (2) (14:12):
they had been caught before they had covered up.
And
Jules-AutisticRadio.com (14:20):
so I caught that moment where The ladies were
just wrapping their heads to coverthemselves from the gaze of men.
The beautiful faces
Jules-AutisticRadio.com (2): were then hidden (14:34):
undefined
Jules-AutisticRadio.com (14:36):
from
Jules-AutisticRadio.com (2) (14:37):
me
Jules-AutisticRadio.com (14:37):
in an instant.
And all I could see was avague idea of some eyes as I
turned away to give privacy.
Jules-AutisticRadio.com (2): It's amazing to see how people (14:49):
undefined
Jules-AutisticRadio.com (14:55):
work through these difficulties and make something
of themselves in the decoration ofthemselves and their own protection,
wrapping themselves away from theworld that they then walk into.
as they walk along the platform, as theyspill out in their numbers, Like kites
Jules-AutisticRadio.com (2): in the sky, almost. (15:20):
undefined
They are amongst
filth dirt degradation, plastic andbuilders rubble and broken pavements.
They walk along like colourand interest, Rising above it.
(15:48):
I
Jules-AutisticRadio.com (15:48):
find that fascinating about the human
condition when you're traveling.
Alex-Stratikis-Autism-Adventures-Abroad: You're giving a rounded perspective. (15:54):
undefined
It's not just the good.
It's also the bad.
I've encountered someone onInstagram they made a post 10
reasons you should not visit Malta.
From the perspective of someoneliving in Malta at the time, as a
foreigner, they weren't from Malta.
How dirty it was, the trash, the rubbish.
(16:17):
My experience of Malta was sodifferent, but, for them to say,
this is why you shouldn't visit.
It was just taking aspects of, a beautifulcountry because you didn't like your
experience living there and tellingeveryone there's no reason to visit it.
I haven't been to India, but I feel thesame way, there's so much, beauty and rich
(16:38):
culture, amazing food, a depth of history.
And I think that can't be ignored.
That would be enough reason for me to.
Hopefully visit India someday.
Jules-AutisticRadio.com (16:51):
I'm so glad you say that because it
sounds at the moment as though I'msaying don't visit and I'm not.
I'm absolutely not.
I think what people can experiencethough is so much more than
the expectation they're given.
if they come with a certain expectation,then they will only find that , they
(17:15):
will be channeled towards that.
But if they come with an expectationthat they're going to have to overcome
some difficulty and they're going tosee some things they don't want to see.
But amongst it, they willsee incredible sights.
Then that's different.
For me, it's why are we traveling?
(17:36):
Are we traveling to go back home andtell people that we're either special
because we're a traveler, or are wetraveling for the reason of being in
a different place, getting out of yournormal world and having a two week
(17:58):
part of, life that is just comfortable.
A holiday from life andthat's perfectly valid.
I do that myself and I'vedone it often enough.
Or is there something elsethat we can get from travel.
I think we can live it as life and liveit a bit more along the same ways as
(18:19):
the people around us when we get there.
That should perhaps be difficult,be eye opening, but give us
something to take with us backhome to understand our own world.
Alex-Stratikis-Autism-Adventures-Abroad: I do want to, get out of my comfort (18:35):
undefined
zone when I travel and I do want tosee, these different, amazing, sites
and natural wonders, there's so muchyou can learn along the way and,
hopefully meet some amazing people,
(18:55):
the hard part, is getting there.
Everything else comes afterwards,and getting to be somewhere different
from what you're used to andhaving the privilege to experience
that is, something in itself,
Jules-AutisticRadio.com (19:13):
If it's set up for people as an industry
from the place that you're going totourism is an industry and it caters
for a specific kind of tourist andyou're going as a consumer of that,
that's buying a service there's, there'snothing wrong with those kind of things.
(19:33):
I mean, there are issues around them.
They do destroy, parts of the world.
That should be controlled.
That should be looked after.
, maybe it's because we're autistic,that those organized ways of
being a tourist, don't feel right.
comfortable to us becauseit's the big group experience.
(19:55):
Maybe it's just that we're outsiders.
And so the outsider has todo it in a different way.
I don't think we shouldbe snobbish about it.
And I think maybe when I wasyounger, I might have been.
I might have been a bit chippy on myshoulder to say, Oh, I want to see this
in a real way rather than a tourist way.
(20:17):
I think I've let go of that now.
, , Just , maybe I just can't do itthe way that other people do it.
Maybe I just can't be involvedin the group in the same way.
And I'm no longer willing to mask upand be of party world and get myself
drunk and be along with a group.
(20:38):
Maybe I just need to be out on myown, experiencing things in a very
raw way, because I'm autistic.
That's it.
Alex-Stratikis-Autism-Adventures-Abroad: What we talk about and experience (20:48):
undefined
and travel can be related or carriedover into, , your daily life.
Stepping out your comfortzone and trying new things
Jules-AutisticRadio.com (21:01):
when I get the reactions through autistic radio, I get
the sense that an awful lot of autisticpeople are Unwilling to see travel as
something that they want to do becauseit feels like they have to conform again.
They have to mask up and be partof everybody else's vision of
(21:24):
things and maybe doing it inan unusual way, in an odd way.
taking the rough with the smoothand seeing the diamonds in the crap.
Maybe that's a way for autistic peopleto be less concerned about travel.
Maybe the reason we don't travelas much as non autistic people
(21:51):
is because of the whole groupthing and we can escape from that.
Maybe doing it like thisis an escape from that.
. Alex-Stratikis-Autism-Adventures-Abroad: I also have several friends (22:00):
undefined
that now are starting to
Jules-AutisticRadio.com (2) (22:04):
engage in, , organized trips, Intrepid or Contiki.
Alex-Stratikis-Autism-Adventures-Abroad: Pre determined, more confined, (22:13):
undefined
a lot of autistic people.
Want to be able to do theirown thing not conform.
I love solo travel so muchbecause there's so little
compromise, you're just traveling
in a way that works for you and doing thethings that you want to do without anyone
(22:34):
else saying, oh, but I want to do thisor we should go here instead when you
meet people along the way, you have thatoption to, do whatever you want with them,
but it's so easy just to say no, , freetravel is understanding my own boundaries
and being able to say no to things,especially within, a larger group setting.
(22:55):
When you mentioned the masking, howsome people felt that they might
have to mask more, because I'vecome across a few autistic travelers
who have said the opposite theyfind they can let go of their mask.
Obviously not fully, but, they findit much easier to be comfortable.
Being there, you know, authenticself, while traveling, within a
(23:18):
country or culture further removeda different language that's spoken.
I think, as a foreigner or as a tourist,your expectations of how you should be.
Are greatly lowered from, you know,the locals or the under travelers
because, you know, they're not expectingeveryone to be the same as them.
People do expect differences.
(23:40):
. No one is going to be
on the prowl to look out for,
Jules-AutisticRadio.com (2): autistic traits I find it easier (23:46):
undefined
to be myself traveling solo
Alex-Stratikis-Autism-Adventures-Abroad (23:52):
I know if it's someone i'm not really Liking
the vibe of just to like, you know, oh,well, there's plenty more people around
here, I don't have to stick with them.
Jules-AutisticRadio.com (24:03):
Yeah, i've been thinking about this masking
thing , you know, I'm an old man now.
The pressure on me to maskback home is negligible.
I don't think it's been the imperativethroughout my life that it has been to
the harm of other people that I know,that I speak to on autistic radio.
It feels as though I've been privilegedand less affected in so many ways.
(24:30):
The prop of masking,the crutch of masking.
That you can develop anduse in your life back home.
It's not here.
You don't have it.
It's not that you don'thave to do it anymore.
It just doesn't work.
(24:50):
Whatever you've constructed to mask upno longer works for you because it's
inappropriate to the situation you're in.
So there's a blessed
Jules-AutisticRadio.com (2): freedom in that it's taken away (25:04):
undefined
from you and you don't miss it.
I think for me as
Alex-Stratikis-Autism-Adventures-Abroad: well, kind of in line with that, (25:14):
undefined
travel should be about freedom.
It's breaking out from, the norm.
It's about seeing, things you wouldn'tnormally experience things that
you can't do in your daily life.
I think that's something,a lot of people find.
That's one of the reasonspeople catch the travel bug.
(25:38):
I'm not sure if you feel that way.
Having been to a few destinationsnow and being back in India as well.
Life is very constricting andthere's so much heavy stuff going on.
And as.
Someone who's autistic, I thinkthere is a lot more weighing
heavily upon us, in various regards.
(26:00):
And I think travel is just, lettinggo of all of that and remembering all
the, good stuff that is happening.
In the world, or the beauty within theworld itself, focusing on the smaller
details, getting to appreciate, thefiner things in life, there is a lot of
beauty that goes, missed within all the
Jules-AutisticRadio.com (2) (26:21):
mess that's happening in the world right now.
Jules-AutisticRadio.com (26:25):
That's interesting that you say that, because
I do describe this place as part of themess that's going on with the world,
finding the beauty within it, inthe small details at the same time.
is a really good positive wayof feeling about the world.
(26:48):
And in travel you do see that.
You see the kindness.
You see people supporting each other.
You see people reaching outto a stranger, helping you.
It does bring you a sense of humanitythat is including you as an autistic
person in perhaps the way that youdon't feel in your own society.
(27:12):
In your own society, you might feelas though everybody else is excluding
and pushing against you, but whenyou travel, you get those experiences
where people hold out their hand andlift you up, or they try to find a
way of explaining something to you,because you can't do the language.
This constant feeling that other people,for their own benefit, Sense of worth
(27:35):
and their own feeling are reachingout to you is possibly the opposite
of what you're experiencing back home.
So it's a respite from lookingat the world as a terrible way.
Ironically, at the same timeas pushing your face into the
Alex-Stratikis-Autism-Adventures-Abroad: dirt. (27:53):
undefined
Travel is, confronting, someof the things that might not be
as pleasant as travel brochuresand, Instagram pages make out but
you can't find beauty within, Theseplaces, I have a lot of special interests.
I love, archaeology andarchitecture, nature as well.
(28:17):
there's so much within a placewhere you can retreat to when,
things are getting a bit much.
Jules-AutisticRadio.com: Yeah, I go with you on that. (28:26):
undefined
I was in satara a few days ago, and I hungout there for a while so that I became,
part of the furniture forthe little hotel I was in.
the guy took me out on hisscooty, to show me a few places.
(28:46):
one of the final destinationswas The river where people
are cremated out in the open.
The river where people were washing theirclothes, coming down from the other side.
there was a temple there that hadbeen there for several centuries.
(29:10):
next to the temple, an ancient treethat he said that his father always
said to him, it has always lookedlike this, it has always looked
this old, always looked permanent.
And just within that little microcosmof slightly being outside the
(29:32):
city, in its haze of pollution,there were these beautiful.
peaceful spaces.
No ticket touts, no tour guides,a few local people who had put
their finery on to photograph eachother, he said, pre wedding photos.
(29:54):
They'd gone to use the backgroundof this beautiful old place.
And there's a sense when youcome across these places that
Literally millions of human souls.
Jules-AutisticRadio.com (2): Have been there before (30:14):
undefined
Jules-AutisticRadio.com (30:17):
either to worship or to mourn or just the
normal thing of everyday washingof their clothes in the river.
You can only get the experienceof those places if you go to them.
And discover them, you can't findthem necessarily on your own doorstep.
(30:37):
travel is necessary to havethese intense experiences.
Alex-Stratikis-Autism-Adventures-Abroad: Yeah, definitely. (30:42):
undefined
a lot of us are visual and tactile.
Learners, it's a very hands on approachto comprehend, what's in front of us.
It's 1 thing to hear something, butto experience it for yourself, you
maybe can't process the emotions.
(31:03):
Behind it until you're in thatenvironment itself and confronted with it.
I do think that's one of the great thingsabout travel as well it can be emotional.
There's so many differentthings, confronting you and it's
right there in front of you.
You have to.
Take it for what it is, whetheryou like it or not, travel
(31:24):
as an experience can never be
Jules-AutisticRadio.com (2) (31:26):
replaced.
Jules-AutisticRadio.com (31:32):
So Alex, what's going on with Autism Adventures Abroad.
You've been some places and you'vebeen setting up some things.
It's a little while since we spoke, Alex,and that's a shame, because people here
on Autistic Radio want to hear about you.
Alex-Stratikis-Autism-Adventures-Abroad: 2024 was, a big year. (31:50):
undefined
. I took a trip in November to the US, I'm currently partnering with,
divergent adventures in the U S.
They're based in Arizona and we'reto get, autistic group trips.
My business partner, has a lot ofexperience, doing these, including
(32:13):
people with different disabilities.
That's something to keep an eye out for.
. I was at an accessibilityconference for tourism.
That was an amazing experiencegetting to be in the same
Jules-AutisticRadio.com (2): room as, so many, (32:26):
undefined
professionals
Alex-Stratikis-Autism-Adventures-Abroad: Disability influencers, and key players (32:33):
undefined
in the accessible tourism space.
, it exceeded definitely all expectations.
There is a lot of followups to do,I'm hoping for the best for 2025.
Jules-AutisticRadio.com (32:49):
We talked about earlier saying that maybe autistic people
don't want to be in a group setting,but that's a mixed group setting.
If what you're arranging is thatautistic people perhaps get the first
opportunity to be amongst a lot ofother autistic people by traveling
at the same time, that sounds likea wonderful experience for them.
(33:10):
The kind of people that want toexperience, travel, if they listen to
some of your broadcasts from autisticradio to get a sense of why to travel
and how other people are traveling,I think that could encourage them.
, Alex-Stratikis-Autism-Adventures-Abroad: absolutely. (33:27):
undefined
the whole point of these trips is to beAs accessible and inclusive as possible.
We all have different, needs andaccommodations the world is a big place.
Arizona is, just a small fraction of that.
We're looking at, variousdestinations ., we're speaking
to some of the organizationsthat are doing it for different
disabilities and they've made it work.
Jules-AutisticRadio.com (33:49):
That's the end
Jules-AutisticRadio.com (2): of this episode (33:50):
undefined
of autistic traveling.
If there's anything here that'sinspired you and you want to
Jules-AutisticRadio.com (34:01):
find a way of traveling, that's guided by other
people, made accessible for you.
I suggest you speak to Alexat Autism Adventures Abroad.
Alex, where do they contact you?
Alex-Stratikis-Autism-Adventures-Abroad: Yeah, so you can find me (34:17):
undefined
at autismadventuresabroad.
com.
Also find me on Facebook and Instagramunder Autism Adventures Abroad if you
want more information on the grouptrips, you can go to DivergentAdventures.
com
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