Lucy Autie Unmasked Substack EP2 Autistic Radio Adult Autism Discovery

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Jules-AutisticRadio.com (00:00):
Hello and welcome again to Autistic Radio.
Yes, it's Christmas, but we're still here.
Today we're going to haveHarry's Facebook conversation.
The last one of the current runbefore we get into Radio Days.
And Radio Days will be on the 27th,28th, 29th and 30th of December.

(00:24):
There will be four extraHarry's Facebook programs.
at 5.
55 on each of those daysbetween Christmas and New Year.
There'll also be fourextra programs of the 4.
44 drop in and it will be at 4.
44 every one of those days, the 27th,28th, 29th and 30th of December.

(00:49):
In the previous two hours, therewill be some podcasts that we play
and some talk and chat in between.
So, if there's any possibility that, , youneed a break from all the festivities
between Christmas and New Year, thenjoin us to either listen or take part.
Okay.
Well, we can be quiteloose on autistic radio.

(01:13):
We don't have to stick to full times,but , we have an idea here that we have

Ray-AutisticRadio.com: Lucy from Autie Unmasked. (01:20):
undefined

Lucy is a contributor to autistic radio.
And also she has a number ofother irons in the fire where she
advocates as a person with livedexperience or expert by experience.

Ray-AutisticRadio.com (01:40):
In her substack,

Autie Unmasked, she looks at incidents that
happen and experiences that happenduring her days and during her weeks.
So, I'd like to introduce Lucy and say,Lucy, let's look at one of your posts.

Lucy-Dawson-Autie-Unmasked (01:58):
So, this is a post that I put up at the
beginning of September regarding,it's really about social interaction.
And it's called, We're All Here to SupportYou, Panic Stations and Good Intentions.
And this is just about, Something I wasgoing through at the time that just,
I felt I needed to put down on paper.

(02:21):
I've got an event comingup in a few weeks.
I booked it ages ago.
I'm absolutely stoked aboutseeing this band and I have been
incredibly excited to attend.
Even though they've been going AndI've followed them for decades.
They're still relatively unknown,so there's no VIP meet and greet
package, where you can pay ten timesthe face value of a normal ticket to

(02:43):
mingle with other Uber fans and theartists themselves for a few minutes
of stilted chit chat and perhaps aselfie before the meter runs out.
Music has always been unimportant.
It has always been important to me.
It's been a constant love ofmine, threading all through
my life from an early age.
I started attending gigs when I was 15with my older brother, and that was The

(03:05):
Damned by the way, it was brilliant,with my older brother and was instantly
hooked on the experience of being partof the crowd united by a common love.
A crowd can shroud you in anonymity.
The lights are low, the room is loudenough to drown out voices, and so
there's no need for conversation.
And at that age, when I wasa drinker, alcohol helped me

(03:27):
to lose all my inhibitions.
I could shout, scream, sing, and dance,safe in the knowledge that no one was
taking any notice of me in isolation.
How wonderful to be able to let off steam.
There is still no other social environmentthat I can truly feel in charge of.
Pubs are no good, they're big andovercrowded, and there's nothing to focus

(03:49):
on apart from booze and other people.
And now I'm teetotal,that's no longer a crutch.

Jules-AutisticRadio.com: Yeah, , I love the idea , that (03:55):
undefined
you went to see the Damned.
Ha ha ha, because that's, that's oldfashioned American punk, isn't it?

Old play, the Damned were fantastic and they still are.

Yeah and , What's the stereotype?
The stereotype is that autistic peoplewill not go out to a dirty, sweaty,
grungy place, crammed with people,joggling up and down, enjoying the
music, shouting out loud, the lights,the music, , everything about it
screams, this is not an autistic space.

(04:34):
But, there we go.
What are you doing?
Straight out into it, Lucy.

It came from listening to my brother's music at home.
And then the extension of that is tryingto feel, be, to become more a part of
that, I started experimenting, going outand going to gigs and enjoying that space.
I realized very early on that thisis a kind of a, nobody actually
gives a shit what you're doing.
, you can walk in there and there's somany people there and everybody's got

(05:02):
their own reason for being there, buteverybody is in that same space together.
And you feel like there's a community,but it's like a community you can,
you could be quiet with, you'reall focused on one thing in a room
and so you're not the main event.
And that for me felt likea really comfortable space.
It's dark, it's noisy.

(05:22):
You don't have to have long conversations,you can pop outside for a cigarette
anytime you want, and, just get out ofthat space if it becomes too much for me.
But it was a road that I felt, if Iwalked down here, I'll be able to get
that little bit of socialization that Ineed, and come away with that with a buzz.
And, , being able to come away from

(05:44):
people , and actually feel buzzinginside instead of, I shouldn't have
said that, I shouldn't have done that.
It's a real, it gives you theanonymity that is just so wonderful
that you can let it all out.
And that was my firstexperience going to gigs.
And it has, it's really informedeverything I've done since.

What year was this Lucy, was this in the 80s?

First gig, I, might have been about 89, I'm not sure.
I was only a kid when I went to seeThe Damned, and that was my first gig.
But everything else isearly, 1990 onwards, was my
really transformative time.
So that's when I really hit the town,and went out , and did a lot of gigs.
Very late 80s maybe, butcertainly early 90s on.

So the reason I'm asking is, the space sounds like
it conforms to a certain identity.
So say there was a major popact of the time, would you
necessarily go and see them andwould you feel the same way there?
Or was it a particular kind ofidentity common to a certain

(06:51):
subculture or taste, let's say.

My first actual real life experience of music
was Definitely in the eighties.
And so I must've been about 13 years old.
And I went to what they used to call , theCapitol Radio Best , Junior Disco in Town.
And my friends were going along and theyinvited me and I went along and it was pop
music, who was there, I think Ross werethere and , it was that sort of time and

(07:22):
honestly speaking in that environment.
Didn't feel comfortable.
Didn't like the music.
I couldn't immerse myself.
I didn't know how to dress.
I was really nervous about it.
I went along.
I remember bits of it now, but Icame away feeling quite embarrassed
by the way I was, I hadn't, Ireally hadn't explored that yet.
I still had a million inhibitions aboutgoing and a lot of the time when people

(07:45):
would ask me, I'd say no before I sayyes to anything, but Yeah, so I would
go and see other kinds of music, butit was only when , , I got a little
bit older and started to be able to gointo this sort of counterculture sort
of thing , where it was punk bands andbands like Rocket from the Crypt and, oh
God, Skunk Anansi, I went to see that Irealized that If I was in the right sort

(08:06):
of environment, the people around me wouldbe the right sort of people, I guess.

Yeah, I sometimes see it, or I did
see it, as a ritual space.
, a place where you could go andfeel safe and enact yourself and be
yourself and discover and explore.
That doesn't often happenin traditional environments.
And it's an extension of that, it'slike Well, as I've got older, I don't

(08:34):
do these things anymore, and I'mwondering, do you still do these things
and still feel that space works for you?
Because, in my case, it's, I thinkit's to do with trauma, right?
So when you're younger, there's maybe, Thetrauma isn't so deep, well it may be, but,
so to find a space when you're youngerhelps you a great deal to be yourself

(09:00):
and to be less traumatised by society.
Later, perhaps, the trauma just getsa bit wearing and a bit overpowering
and any kind of social scenario canbe difficult, although still worth
exploring if you see what I mean.
But I'm very curious aboutthis space where we can go and

(09:21):
Explore that need to be have

and I guess I cheated I do cheat a bit because a
lot of I still go I Mean, I went to twothree particular gigs last year where
I go along and Actually, these are alllong time Fans of the same things I am.
So they will be in that space with me.

(09:45):
So , there's rarely anysurprises for me anymore.
I, when I was 16, 17, justgetting into these things.
Yeah, no, , it's all a brand newexperience, but now it's quite, it's
comfortable old shoes because I willgo and I'll see people whose faces
I've been seeing for the last 30 years.
You know, how you said, just said like aworking man's club, , , my husband plays,

(10:08):
used to play with working men's clubsand no, they're not comfortable at all.
But this is the place where I'm,I'm aware of everybody around me
being from the same era as me.
And, I can also find places , like onFacebook where I can connect with these
people outside of it, plan for it.
They know me.
This is what this is all about.
Really.

(10:28):
This piece , is really justexplaining to the people around me.
How difficult it canbe, so they understand.

I get a vibe here that the

autistic part of the community, the neurodivergent part of
the community, whether that be autism orbrain injury or Somebody who's born Downs
all of these different version versionsof the Neurodivergent, the Freak show

people, the people who are circus folk and festival folk, and
pixies and fairies, and people who are.
Willing to be outside

the conventional way of expressing ourselves because
we are outside the conventional way ofbeing just by our own brain structure.
It feels to me as though

we often are the people who create the

tribes, we create the goths, we create the punks, we create
the different genres that come through.
And then afterwards, you, Lucy, evenat your ripe old age of young, , you're
still accessing those things, notbecause it's an age group thing,

(11:57):
but because There's a belonging forthe people that chose that in the
first place, that chose those spaces.
And you'll find more people that areaccepting of you in those spaces.

And it's becoming more difficult to find live music
spaces that I can go into, because it'svery much changed since, , the days when
I first got into this, where there weregigs every night at different venues.
In London, I used to go outvirtually every night and see a band
and I had one or two people thatI'd bring with me from the other
tribe to go along to these things.

(12:30):
I had a best friend who went withme everywhere, so I would go to lots
of different spaces and experiencelots of different music bands that
were big or small or whatever.
And, but it was like a continuity.
You kept it going and it was greatbecause you could do that every night.
It's not so much now, and youdon't really get the same sort
of thing that you used to.
, I'm always keen to get inwith the people and that,

(12:53):
so, everyone I know
is lovely.
And with every anniversary of thisquirky, obscure band's formation,
we all grow another year older.
But even so, my autism stillfinds a way to get in the way.
I've never been able to shake my anxietycompletely, and right now, I'm already

(13:15):
feeling uncomfortable about this gig.
I'm also keen to be at it.
This is the point in time when Iam walking through how the day is
going to look, the journey, the hotelgetting ready and heading off to one
of, one of the only social events Iknow I'll be going through this year.
It's a, it's the wide gaps either side ofthe show that I know will be the toughest

(13:38):
part, the train journeys and checking inand out at just the start before the gig.
Everyone meets up at the nearestbar and catches up with one another.
I'm always twitchy and unableto think of anything to say.
I have no sense of how to chat.
I try to think of the rightwords, but nothing comes.

(13:59):
I often find myself mute and floundering.
People ask how I've beenand what I've been up to.
And I genuinely wonder why they care.
In anticipation of this, I willoften post about my building fears.
This is where those socialmedia sites come in useful.
Honesty is always my best and only policy.

(14:22):
I'm determined not to haveto pop that awful mask back
on and hold the fear inside.
There have been times in the past wherethat nagging, dull, ambient terror was
will develop into a slowly unfolding dreadand then transform into physical panic.
The worst of these haveled me passing out.
So you can imagine how importantit is, me to get a grip on this

(14:44):
before it gets a grip on me.

I love that Lucy.
I do also recognize that, well that fear.
You've got this thing that you know

is absolutely part of, Your history, a gig, you know
you're going to be amongst a crowdthat are going to be okay in comparison
to other crowds you might be in.
But still looking

ahead, there's still a, there's still a fear about it.

Walking into any space is a big deal for me.
, I'll just read the nextparagraph it sums up this
sort of Catch 22.
Of course, the almost laughable ironyof making my anxiety public in advance
of a potentially stressful event isthat well meaning acquaintances try

(15:39):
to bolster and reassure me by tellingme to stick with them on the night.
They'll shield me from the awkwardness.
Stick with us.
We're all here to support you, they say,with the best intentions in the world.
Oblivious to the fact that, inpart, it's they I won't say I'm
afraid of, but that are certainlya contributory factor to my angst.

(16:02):
I don't mean to sound ungrateful,as I know they are nice people and
trying to help, and I almost didn'tshare this little slice of Paphos
for fear of offending anybody.
But such is the intricacy andcatch 22 ness of my condition.

So true.
Yeah,
well said.
We're always stuck inthis irony, aren't we?
We try our absolute best to, to beappropriate and to get the best of
our lives and the more we do that, themore we fail to also at the same time

(16:43):
express in ways that are easy to acceptfrom us that we are still struggling.
Somebody who is dealing with theiranxiety or their fear or their social.
Issue and pulling themselvesto push themselves to

go for it, to go out there and do it, masking up
even and covering up what we reallyfeel works against us at the same time,
because people will immediately oftenclick to, well, okay, there's nothing,

(17:27):
there's nothing we need to worry about.
Now there's, they're all goingto be fine and, and we don't
need to worry about that.
Jules or Lucy or Ray or whatever,, they're managing, but we're not, we're,
we're like the swans in, you know, theold cliche of the swans, smooth on the
top, passive, non threatening, as, asquiet and resting face as we can on

(17:50):
the top, and, and underneath, there'sso much going through our heads that,
that makes things difficult for us.

There's often a misunderstanding that the thing that
I want to do by telling people about myanxiety is to draw them closer to me.
And I don't like people getting the sensethat I'm pushing them away from me at all.
I don't want them to feel that way.
And I'm always so grateful , that,that offer is there on the table.
But people take it to extremes where,, , they're treating me in a way that I know

(18:19):
that they're You know, they're beinga little bit careful, but they, know,
and all I really want to be is sort ofisolated, allowed to enjoy that space,
maybe by myself and maybe not having totalk to anybody at all during that night.
But I get so many offers of you, if youhold my hand and I'll take you through
it and they have to refuse because.
That's really not what I'm there for.

I think there's a different level of understanding we
need to access in these situations.
Not we ourselves, but other people too,because they're often well meaning,
trying to help, but it's happening on thatlevel that isn't really understanding.

(19:05):
It's more like the done thing.
And, To really understand, I think,is like a form of co existence.
Just being in the same place,being in the same comfort as well.
It's rare, and it comes whenyou don't do the other thing,
which is like over concern or,, thinking too much about someone.

(19:30):
It's just really good writing becauseit's making me anxious just hearing
it, it's like really well written.
You've captured it, and it's just, I justwanted to focus on that thing of like,
Well, when you're going to these things,you said that you want to be there.
There's something you want, butthere's all these hoops you have
to jump through to get there.

(19:51):
And these are the thingsthat are discomforting.
The thing itself, the event, theband, , your joy, isn't a problem.
Your friends aren't really a problem.
It's just the way it's structuredsometimes becomes such a chore.

Lucy-Dawson-Autie-Unmasked: It's not a cry for help. (20:06):
undefined
I'm not asking anybodyto help me in any way.
I'm just asking them to allow meto be me , and if they come across
me and they say, Hey, how are you?
And I say, yeah, I'm fine.
And that's the end of the conversation.
And that should be it.
I should be able to say,can't speak anymore.
And then slink off.
And I, I tend to do that anyway.

(20:26):
I tend to just try and disappear alittle bit, knowing that everybody
knows who I am and what I am.
But.
You know, I, that isolation is maybesomething I'm, I'm craving so I can just
forget the world and just enjoy myself.

Exactly.

I'm always thrilled to be invited to things.
I do isolate myself sometimes, butthere is always a large part of me
that yearns for more human contact.
I sometimes have to set some limits.
Thanks.
I once told someone that I wouldgo along to their Christmas outing,
but they'd only have me for an hour.
And then I'd have to escape.
No offence, seriously, I understand.

That's, um, that's part of it, isn't it?
People's expectations.

Other people's expectations of social interaction
are often much bigger than we want.
We would much prefer to havethem intensely for short periods
of time, and then get away,recover, sort ourselves out.

Or, as Lucy's expressing, enjoy
something in a solitary way

Jules-AutisticRadio.com: amongst the group. (21:35):
undefined
Be taken away by the music.
Be involved in it to such an extent thatIt looks as though you're not part of the
group because you're there and findingthat balance , where people don't feel as
though they are losing out because you'renot reacting in the way they want to be

(21:59):
socially, but also finding your own spaceso you can enjoy it in the way you want
when your brain is different to theirs.
That's a negotiation that we canonly keep creating and making.
It will constantly fuck up, butit will also often enough find

(22:24):
spaces amongst friends where itdoes work out where you can say, I

am fine.
I just need to take it onin my own space, in my own

head right now, and how we find ways to express
that to people around us that want to.
Help us in the way they would wantto be helped rather than in the way
we want to be helped is one of the

big, big problems, one of the big
conundrums in the experience ofbeing neurodivergent, I guess.

And I understand that everybody's intentions
are, you know, our gold, solid goldand they, they, they've really been it,
and they've, they see my face aroundfor years and, and it, it is sad that
I, I, I, I can't, I, I can't get.
Right.
The way in there, youknow, I've been doing this.
I've been going to gigs now.
I'm 51 now.

(23:24):
And my first gig was when I waslike 15, 16, so this is a space I've
been in so many times and as yet,I still haven't found the perfectly
calm and easy way of doing it.
I'm still nervous.
I'm still nervous.
But I know there's going to be a payoffin the middle that I really, really enjoy
and then it will finish and then theanxiety will start again when people start

(23:45):
coming up and speaking to you afterwards.

You know that thing when you're on holiday, see.
And it's a comfortable holiday,one you want to be on, and you're
there, and it's no real issue.
And this happened to me in Germany, in acouple of places, it's like, you're just
sitting out somewhere, having a coffee,and music's playing, a band's playing.

(24:09):
There's some kind of live entertainmentgoing on, there's no pressure.
That kind of thing can be quite appealing.
It can be annoying as well ifyou don't want it, or you don't
like the content of it, see.
That experience of just coming acrosssomething in the wild like that,

(24:29):
and ideally what would be nice wouldbe your favourite band doing that.
you know, in a wide open space, you know,which, , is capitalism all the way down,
it's like everybody has to conform tothe thing, you know, that we make cash.
It's the way it works.
To do things for free and all thatis, you know, some people do that,

(24:52):
but , it doesn't bring home the bacon.

There's only one paragraph left, and this one
is really just going out to all thepeople that I talk to on Facebook.
I said the same thing tothem, so it goes like this.
I love you all.
I just can't cuddle you.
I'm not demonstrative, andI was never taught to be.
If Ticketmaster had an option whereby Icould just see the band at the instant

(25:16):
they go on stage as part of the throngand then leave at the last truck
called, I would happily pay 10 timesover the face value for the service.
It would cancel out the awkwardness ofthose catch ups before the show, and then
the final encore ending, the lights comingback up, and the atmosphere dispelling,
and that final round of goodbyes.
I could call it the neurodiversesee and flee package, and I think

(25:40):
I might just be onto something.

Sorry Lucy, it was almost like I predicted
what you were going to say.
That's cool.
It just shows how much of a truth it is.
I'm gonna put an anecdote in here.
My wife and I, a decadeor so back, were really

Jules-AutisticRadio.com: into Eddie Izzard, (26:05):
undefined

Susie Izzard, in those days it was Eddie, the
comedian that was surreal, thecomedian that got to us because,
partly because of neurodivergence,I think, partly because what

Jules-AutisticRadio.com: he managed to present (26:26):
undefined

was a, A very
neurodivergent way of looking at theworld in comedy, and it was special to us.
We had the opportunity togo to a huge gig in Ireland.
A stadium kind of place.

(26:50):
Exactly like you're saying.
. Jules-AutisticRadio.com: We weren't comfortable being with that football crowd
of people, and when we sat in our seats to

Ray-AutisticRadio.com: concentrate directly it was almost (27:02):
undefined
spoiled by the people around

us.
My wife was actually annoyed by awoman next to her that was laughing in
all, in completely different places to

where

we

Ray-AutisticRadio.com: would find the humor. (27:20):
undefined
And
looking around, when she mentioned

this, we looked around the people around us,
and there seemed to be a performanceof the people around us as an audience.
They were performing back, thisis how I perform as an audience.
And that was what they were gettingpleasure from, and that's what
they should get pleasure from.
That's why they're there,what they want from it.

(27:47):
But for us, it, it was a, itwas a non conformist moment
amongst conformist people.
It was, these people aren't experiencingit in the way that we experience, and we
feel almost excluded by the loudness ofthem, and the demonstrativeness of them.

(28:10):
And, The lack, it felt to us, of theconnection with the person on stage.
I still love Suzy Izzard's work.
And everything she has done now,she, in the television programs that
she puts out and, and watching Eddiebecome Susie over a whole period
of time has been a lovely thing.

(28:33):
But it's still back

to this conformity of the group,

where you go to the gig and you
would rather just be Susie.
Have a community with the personon stage direct and not be
amongst this group experiencethat everybody else is there for.
Everybody else is getting something fromthe group experience, possibly more than
the communing with the person on stage.

Maybe that's why I've always kept it so small, , bands
slightly off that scale, so they'renot going to be performing in groups.
Huge venues.
One of my huge loves when I wasa teenager was Vic Reeves and Bob
Mortimer and the show that they did.
And I'd watch every week religiously.

(29:22):
It was my thing.
And I thought it was thebest thing in the world.
I discovered it when it first cameon and it was really surreal and
different and really got to me.
Then I had the chance to go and seethem in Hammersmith, the Hammersmith
Apollo, which is a massive venue.
And it was absolutely packed withpeople and I was sat there in amongst
a lot of other fans and it felt verydifferent to when it was at home,

(29:46):
just me and the telly because I feltlike I was transported into that world
because it was like an isolation thing.
It was me watching them and laughingand really joining in when I got into
the crowd of people going to see it.
It lost its edge.
I felt like I was just lost in this seaof people, then there was no connection
because, , there were people with theirheads in the way and laughing in the

(30:07):
wrong places or talking when I didn'twant them to and I found the experience
a little bit annoying, if anything, Idon't think that's the thing, , if you
don't have that That sort of one on onebeing able to focus on that completely and
it sort of knocks you slightly sidewaysSo you don't really enjoy yourself
because you're so aware of the crowd

Raymond in text says a friend who was a regular
punk music lover now finds her homebeing loyal to certain BBC radio 6
programs radio 6 here in the UK is thealternative music genre program Often

(30:47):
it's the program where we look back onniche genre of music and the upcoming
new stuff that hasn't met the mainstream

yet.

So there's definitely something about the
autistic experience where We need tobe in the smaller spaces, and when
those different groups and bandsbecome large and mainstream, we
stay in the smaller spaces, maybe.

Lucy-Dawson-Autie-Unmasked: I've never been to see a band (31:19):
undefined
in a really big venue before.
So, I've seen sort of staged things,but I've never seen music in a
really big, , stadium setting.
I'd never go to the O2.
Or any of those places because Ijust feel , for me, it dehumanises
the experience and you're just aticket holder and you go through.

(31:40):
And that, it feels very disconnectedonce you get into a place like that.
First of all, you're probably watchinga hundred miles away on the screen,
but also just the noise of peopledrowning out what I want to hear.

Those recent Taylor Swift gigs were like, totally frightening,
, if you consider it's a ritual space.
, these are huge events,carrying a lot of power.
And I was driving home a shortcut,thinking I'll escape, , some
really bad traffic jams in town.

(32:16):
And it took me past the big rugbystadium where she was playing that night.
And during the day there wasall these people, there was a
massive queue for memorabilia.
And it was just, I mean some of thepeople were really interested and
Delighted to look at , having a niceday out, but , what an experience

So you just triggered all my memories
of being a merch girl And sendingmuch to people so that's so i'm
just that my mind's just constantlySuddenly you switch to what that was like
and meeting people over the shop counteris, it's kind of a weird place to be in
a, in a gig, you know, because you doget all the fans and fanatics and really
interesting people come to speak to you.

(32:58):
I used to get nightmares the nightbefore I had to do the, the gig, so,
cause they were really hard work,but , you did get to meet people who
were just so fanatic about things andthey really loved you being there and
yeah, that was an experience and a half.

Yeah, the merch counters were really interesting.
Some of the bands I used to see, itwas like AK Press used to have a stall.
It was like this anarchist press whopublished all these obscure books.
So you'd meet interestingcharacters there.
And obviously you pickup rare items as well.
You know, certain CDs that mightbe very, very hard to get, you
would find there at the gig.

It was one of the pieces I put up where I got an
awful lot of views, probably becausepeople I knew were jumping into it,
but it's, for me, it's, that is justlike my life experience and really
how I still am and how I'll always be.
I'll always have that little, little bitof panic inside me for everything I do.

(33:54):
And I just I just have to live with it,cope with it, and I find the more I vocal
about it, the more people know aboutme, and that's probably a good thing.

That's lovely Lucy.
I'm hoping that we'll have

Jules-AutisticRadio.com: you back during Radio Days, (34:10):
undefined
, we'll be returning to you at othertimes during the year where we
discuss what you do in Autie Unmasked.
Every Sunday we have a drop in groupwhich is not normally broadcast.
We have it as a private conversationand we do make a podcast out

(34:33):
of it from the voices who havealready given their permission.
But most people drop by with their textand their words and they don't appear.
During radio days it's a littledifferent because the people appearing
in the 444 drop in are people whohave already given their permission.

It's a project we're very proud
of, here at Autistic Radio.
For more than two years,

Jules-AutisticRadio.com: we have been reliable. (35:00):
undefined
I'm going to interrupt and justadvertise what we're doing here in case
there's something specific here thatyou want to get involved in with us.
We're making a recording coming intothe springtime of 2025 about sex.
Sex, sex, sex, sex, sex,sex, drugs, rock and roll.

(35:23):
We're pushing the boundaries.
We've got a couple of professionalscoming and talking to us, but we want you.
To have a voice and we want youto direct some of the things.
I'm not entirely comfortable with someof the ways that I interpret the work

(35:44):
of the two people that are coming up.
So I need an autistic angle on thisif anybody's out there to help us.
And the second one is we nowhave the go for a series.
looking at ABA from a veryautistic point of view.
We have essentially platformed agroup of behaviorists and they have

(36:08):
come to describe their take and wehave found common ground in that.
It has been surprising but we reallydo need now voices from the autistic
community to to maybe give challenge tosome of the things that they have heard.
We will make sure that this isrespectful all the way through, but

(36:33):
I am being encouraged by members Irespect of the autistic community
to continue this difficult taskof having an open conversation
with the behaviorist community.

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