August 22, 2025 • 41 mins
Your calling can get you in the room, but your character will keep you there. In this episode of Between Sermons, Pastor Brent, Pastor Sol, and Ti’heasha unpack the story of King Saul—a leader chosen by the people but ultimately rejected by God. Saul’s journey is less of an example to follow and more of a warning about what happens when talent and calling outpace obedience and integrity. Together, we explore the difference between Saul’s excuses and David’s repentance, why giftedness without character can destroy your purpose, and how obedience is the foundation that sustains your calling.
Whether you’re leading in ministry, at work, or simply trying to live out your faith, this conversation will challenge you to guard your heart, walk in humility, and remember that obedience matters more than titles or position.
#BetweenSermons #BiblePodcast #KingSaul #CallingAndCharacter #DisciplesChurch
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Pastor Brent McQuay (00:00):
Foreign. Welcome to another episode of Between
Sermons, where we are continuing our conversation
from the Sunday sermon. Turning that monologue
into dialogue. I'm Pastor Brent. I get
to be the lead pastor at Disciples
(00:21):
Church, and I'm glad you're hanging out
with us today. And hopefully this conversation
will be beneficial to you. It's going
to be a little bit of a
shorter conversation today because apparently I don't
pay attention to the clock very well.
But in order to help us do
that, Tyisha Beasley, keep us on point
today, focused and directed.
Ti'heasha Beasley (00:38):
I love the accountability, self awareness.
Pastor Sol McQuay (00:41):
It's all me.
Ti'heasha Beasley (00:42):
I love it.
Pastor Brent McQuay (00:43):
People are gonna be like, wow, that
was a really short conversation with your
wife. You don't love her very much,
do you?
Pastor Sol McQuay (00:47):
And I like to talk, and I
have to not talk. Thank you very
much.
Ti'heasha Beasley (00:52):
Oh, my gosh. I'm so happy. I'm
happy to be here today. You guys
are matching a little bit with your
gray tones. So cute.
Pastor Sol McQuay (00:59):
Look at that.
Ti'heasha Beasley (01:00):
I love it. So it's giving me
all the vibes.
Pastor Brent McQuay (01:02):
Super intentional, by the way.
Ti'heasha Beasley (01:03):
Super.
Pastor Sol McQuay (01:05):
No, it wasn't.
Ti'heasha Beasley (01:07):
Well, I'm happy, too, because my sister's
on the show. Yay. You gotta do
fingers. Fingers.
Pastor Sol McQuay (01:12):
Okay, whatever.
Pastor Brent McQuay (01:14):
And you guys need me to leave?
Is this just. You're just gonna hang
out and talk.
Ti'heasha Beasley (01:17):
The two of you?
Pastor Brent McQuay (01:18):
My presence is not necessary.
Ti'heasha Beasley (01:20):
Sure. We could do this for 30,
45 minutes? For sure. Yes. So I'm
just happy to be here because you
preached an amazing message, and we are
still continuing the conversation from our called
series. So yesterday you had an opportunity
to deliver the message, which is why
you are joining us today.
Pastor Sol McQuay (01:41):
Yes.
Ti'heasha Beasley (01:41):
How you feeling? I mean, you go
from the stage to the seat, it
just.
Pastor Sol McQuay (01:46):
Just keep on rolling. You just ride
the wave.
Pastor Brent McQuay (01:48):
And then she's leading the Devo lady
today.
Pastor Sol McQuay (01:51):
Yes.
Ti'heasha Beasley (01:52):
How much coffee did you have to
prepare for?
Pastor Sol McQuay (01:54):
I did all of the coffee. I
need all of the coffee. Like, yesterday,
I brought a coffee from home, and
then Bren got me a coffee from
Dunkin Donuts, and I had so much
coffee, it was just.
Ti'heasha Beasley (02:03):
Oh, my goodness.
Pastor Sol McQuay (02:04):
It was great.
Ti'heasha Beasley (02:05):
Okay. Still overflow. So give us a
little summary of yesterday's message. Who did
we cover in the. In the series?
Pastor Sol McQuay (02:15):
So it was funny because I talked
about Saul, King Saul in the Bible.
In the. In the Old Testament. And
the funny thing is that that was
not supposed to be my subject.
Ti'heasha Beasley (02:24):
It wasn't?
Pastor Sol McQuay (02:25):
No. I was supposed to be talking
about Peter. That was. When we did
our calendar meeting a year ago, we
had Peter as the person that I
was supposed to talk about. But then
we're going to be doing a series
here. Coming up on this.
Ti'heasha Beasley (02:39):
You give the spoilers a little.
Pastor Sol McQuay (02:41):
Just a little bit. Just a little
bit. So we were talking about it
and we were saying, okay, we cannot
just do all of this stuff, you
know, like, go all in the background
of Peter if that is what is
going to be coming up in just
a couple of weeks. So it will
just be too redundant. So we were
trying to figure out a different person
and we started making a list of
all of the different people that could
(03:01):
be good to talk about. And I
was like, no, I don't feel like
that person. No, everybody talks about that
person. No, I kept just saying no
to everybody. And the only one that
was left was Sol. And I was
like, I guess I get Sol. And
Brent literally said, are you sure?
Ti'heasha Beasley (03:15):
Yeah.
Pastor Sol McQuay (03:16):
And I said, get the bad boy.
Why not?
Ti'heasha Beasley (03:18):
Okay. So I would say, why did
you say, are you sure?
Pastor Brent McQuay (03:21):
Just because everybody else on the list.
So we did pretty much very quickly
narrowed down to Old Testament.
Ti'heasha Beasley (03:26):
Yeah.
Pastor Brent McQuay (03:27):
Just for the thematic. But then going
through the list, there was only one
person that was like the anti calling
guy. It was like, everybody else is
like, learn from great people. Do what
they did. And then you get the
Saul. And it's like, don't do what
this guy does. And so I was
like, well, Saul, you're right in the
middle. It could fit, it could work,
(03:49):
but that's up to you. Like, do
you really want to talk about all
the things you shouldn't be doing?
Pastor Sol McQuay (03:55):
So I said, yes. I was very
excited. I'm like, let's do it. Let's
do Saul. And as I started studying
and trying to put everything together, I
regretted picking Saul just as God did.
I was like, I regret that I
picked this guy.
Ti'heasha Beasley (04:13):
This is horrible because it was so
much.
Pastor Sol McQuay (04:17):
I was like, oh, Lord, where do
I go from here?
Ti'heasha Beasley (04:21):
Where do I go from that statement?
Like that is, if you want to
be a top tier failure, be like
Saul. Not only was he rejected in
scripture by God, he is rejected still
in 2020.
Pastor Sol McQuay (04:34):
Listen, I was reading all of his
story and I was like, I don't
even know how to narrow it down.
Like, it feels like every single thing
that you read is bad. It's terrible.
So trying to figure it out, what
to focus on, you know, was. Was
challenging. Then I was trying to. To
(04:54):
come up with like, maybe I have
three points, you know, and like, I
have like the don't do this, don't
do that, and kind of like, just
make it everything broad. But you couldn't
because it was just so much. It
was. It was quite challenging to actually
put the whole message together in a
way that people can actually get something
out of it, that you can actually
see yourself in it. Because I think
(05:16):
that that was the main thing for
me is we all have been there.
And I think the more that you
actually study people in the Bible and
the more that you realize that these
are real people, that it is not
just fiction, you know, it is not
just somebody that has been made up.
Ti'heasha Beasley (05:33):
Yeah.
Pastor Sol McQuay (05:33):
It's real people that did real things
that you realize. I have done that
too. You know, like, I have been
feeling that way too. And I think
that that was the, The. The hard
thing for me with all of it
was the fact that if we really
are honest and like, we. If we
(05:53):
put all of our church talk to
the side and are like, oh, we
are holy. Like, if you are real,
real. You have experienced some of this
stuff and you have done some of
this stuff too.
Ti'heasha Beasley (06:05):
Yeah.
Pastor Sol McQuay (06:05):
And I think that that was when
I realized what this has to be
is a warning. Because if we, if
we keep going in this direction, the
call of God in our life is
going to be choked.
Ti'heasha Beasley (06:15):
O. Okay. That was so good. I
mean, I feel like you could just
keep talking and we can benefit from
it. I. I love how you are
unpacking, like, I mean, laying out his
life and how this is a warning.
I love that statement. So let's go
back to the top where he was
actually chosen by God. So, Pastor Brent,
why do you feel like he. He
(06:36):
was chosen by God when these, these
group of people were saying, we give
us a king, why do you think
God chose him?
Pastor Brent McQuay (06:43):
So I, I don't think God chose
him for God's benefit. Right. So, like,
there's a. There's a distinction in when
God calls Saul to be king over
the nation and when God calls David
to be king. When God calls David,
he specifically says, I've chosen him for
myself with Saul. It's not that. So
(07:07):
I think God basically just gave them
exactly what they were looking for. So,
like, if they were up to themselves
to choose somebody, they would have chosen
the tall, dark, and handsome guy. Like,
they, they would have picked this guy.
He's head and shoulders above everybody else.
Like, they'd look at him and be
like, that's a king. That's a. Because
he's. He. It. I love the comparison.
(07:27):
David's story, it's. Don't look at the
outside, look at the inside. Saul is
very much, look at the outside, don't
look at the inside. The inside's a
mess. Just look at the outside, and
we see that unravel. So I think
it's one of those where it's like.
So it may be a cautionary tale
for all of us. Like, sometimes God
will give you exactly what you're asking
for, but it's not for your benefit.
Ti'heasha Beasley (07:47):
Y' all are on fire this morning.
Pastor Sol McQuay (07:51):
We ought to go fast so we
like, okay, here we go.
Ti'heasha Beasley (07:54):
Y' all going hard. What is it
called? Clock it. Clock it.
Pastor Brent McQuay (07:57):
I have no idea. I'm too old
for that.
Ti'heasha Beasley (07:59):
It's a TikTok thing.
Pastor Sol McQuay (08:00):
See, I don't have TikTok. We were
just talking about how I don't have
TikTok.
Pastor Brent McQuay (08:05):
That's a realm of tick tock. I
don't know. So.
Ti'heasha Beasley (08:08):
So I love that. So really, let's.
Let's stay there for a little bit
because we do know a lot of
people who are very talented and they
look like they fit the job in
most places. Especially we see that in
ministry. So as leaders, how do you
not get the desire to just put
(08:29):
people in places because they are gifted
and look the part? Like, how do
you maneuver that space that.
Pastor Brent McQuay (08:37):
Honestly, that may be the million dollar
question. And if I can figure that
one out really well, I'd write a
book and retire off the proceeds or
something. I don't know. Yeah, it's. It's
never easy, right? Because, like, no matter
how much you know this stuff, you
find somebody that's charismatic, you find somebody
that, like, fits the part, and you're
like, oh, this guy's going to amazing.
(08:58):
And so we've. We've absolutely fallen into
that trap before. And you try and
do your due diligence. You try. And
the interview process, the talking. We have
a series of interview questions that we'll
do, really, to get at somebody's heart
more than just their experience. Not just,
what have you done? But who are
you as a person? But even within
all that, like, we're human beings and
(09:19):
we're flawed, and sometimes you get. You
get blinded by the bright stars.
Ti'heasha Beasley (09:23):
Yeah.
Pastor Brent McQuay (09:24):
Um. So, yeah, I'm still figuring that
one out.
Ti'heasha Beasley (09:26):
Okay.
Pastor Sol McQuay (09:26):
But I think that's something that we
have learned, you know, the hard way,
really, is that you have to definitely
spend more time with people before you
just say, let's all get on board,
and you just do whatever it is
that you wanted people to do and
actually start looking at people's character. How.
(09:49):
How do they actually live what is
their testimony? What is the fruit of
their lives? Because you can teach skill,
but you cannot teach character.
Ti'heasha Beasley (10:00):
Yeah, that's good.
Pastor Sol McQuay (10:01):
Right. So if that person has good
character, the skill will come, the training
will come. Things will, you know, you
will be able to get there. But
if somebody is lacking character, that is
something that will take everything down with
it. So. So we have to be
a little more careful with that. And.
And that. That's something that we have
definitely learned.
Ti'heasha Beasley (10:20):
Yeah.
Pastor Sol McQuay (10:21):
There's so many people that have so
many gifts and that they can make
any place so much better, but the
moment that the character is bringing. Brought
into the situation.
Ti'heasha Beasley (10:33):
Yeah. Yeah.
Pastor Sol McQuay (10:34):
All of the talent and all of
the bells and whistles falls short. And
it's like you did so many great
things, but you cannot sustain it.
Ti'heasha Beasley (10:42):
Yeah, yeah.
Pastor Brent McQuay (10:43):
There's definitely red flags, and I think
sometimes because of our blindness to how
amazing somebody is on the outside or.
Or even our timetable and how desperate
we are, it's like, oh, this person's
perfect, and we need it right now
that you can. You can be kind
of colorblind and you can see a
red flag. And it's like. Well, it's
a. Kind of a gray flag. I
don't know.
Ti'heasha Beasley (11:03):
It's all right. It's not quite green
or red. Gray.
Pastor Brent McQuay (11:07):
Gray area. You know, we will work
on that one as we go.
Ti'heasha Beasley (11:11):
God's not through with them yet.
Pastor Brent McQuay (11:13):
Ex. And it's a hard, balanced fight.
Because is there anybody that's perfect? No.
Like, even. Even our character. I mean,
David, our example from last week, like,
man after God's own heart. Awesome character.
Also adulterous. Also, you know, I mean,
you could go even beyond just adultery.
What he did with Bathsheba was an
abuse of power. I mean, that's. Yeah,
(11:33):
yeah. There's. There's words for that of
what David did, and they're not pretty
words. And so. Yeah. So it's tough.
Ti'heasha Beasley (11:42):
Yeah. So where did Saul. Where did
he start to go wrong? Do you
think he's. He was always this person
in his heart and it was just
exposed over time, or do you think.
Pastor Sol McQuay (11:52):
I think so.
Ti'heasha Beasley (11:52):
Okay.
Pastor Sol McQuay (11:53):
I think that.
Ti'heasha Beasley (11:54):
Spend a lot of time with Saul.
I'm not giving him no room.
Pastor Sol McQuay (11:58):
This is the thing. You. You read
the Bible, and as you read his.
Even his calling, the very first thing
that you hear after. After the fact
that he's been anointed and stuff, like,
as he's seeing the signs that Samuel
tell him that he's going to see
God changes his heart. The spirit comes
powerfully upon him, yet he goes immediately
(12:19):
and hides, you know, so, like, it
is not even somebody that is understanding
what God is doing in his life.
Like, he is still very much himself,
you know? And the moment that. That
the first battle is gonna come and
he's on the fields, working the fields,
and then he comes and he hears
like, they want to gouge everybody's eye.
(12:40):
And he's like, what is happening? Instead
of him just trying to say, okay,
God is gonna deliver us. Like, God
can do something. Like, the spirit of
God comes powerful upon him, but yet
he is still threatening people. Like, if
you don't go with me when I
win and I come back, y' all
are gonna pay. Right?
Ti'heasha Beasley (12:59):
Yeah. Red flag, Peter. Red flag.
Pastor Brent McQuay (13:03):
From motivational leadership right there.
Pastor Sol McQuay (13:05):
Like, from the get go, it was
always rage, and it was always, like,
trying to put himself in a position
or trying to hide. Like, it was
like, always that power of. Or that
struggle, I should say, in his person.
Like, it was never just trusting God.
And like, well, God put me here,
(13:26):
so he is gonna be before us
and he is gonna make the way.
Like, he. He kind of always did
his own thing in one way or
another. And I don't think that he
ever was submitted to the will of
God at any point.
Ti'heasha Beasley (13:41):
Okay, so now I'm okay, so God
is sovereign. He's wise in all his
decisions. He knew that Saul would fail,
and he knew Saul's heart. Why was
he still chosen? I have all the
questions.
Pastor Sol McQuay (13:55):
And this is the thing. God knew.
And he told Samuel, go tell the
people what is going to happen if
they choose a king. And the people
were like, we don't care. We want
a king. Right? So, like, God told
the people, this is what is going
to happen when a flawed man, somebody
that. That it is not perfect and
(14:15):
holy and righteous leads the way. Is
that what you want? And they say,
yes. So they got what they wanted.
Like, I don't think that any other
person. And I don't know. I don't
know. I don't know people or I
don't know, you know, alternate scenarios. But
I don't think that any single person
would have been better. Like, even, you
(14:36):
see, with David, even though David was
after God's own heart, he was not
a perfect king either.
Ti'heasha Beasley (14:41):
Right.
Pastor Sol McQuay (14:42):
You know, so it doesn't matter who
you put in charge of the person
or of the. Or of the nation,
when you are removing God from the
place, you are doomed to fail.
Ti'heasha Beasley (14:53):
Yeah, so that was the setup. It
was more so, like, I don't I'm
still rest. Because when you say God,
we hear the term chosen, and I'm
like, God was intentional. Like, this was
God's plan. But it seemed like more
like a. Not a band aid, but
like, all right, you want somebody, Here
he is. So I don't know if
it was punishment to the people.
Pastor Brent McQuay (15:14):
I think it's a testimony to free
will.
Ti'heasha Beasley (15:16):
Okay.
Pastor Brent McQuay (15:17):
And that. That free will is always
going to be on the table. Wow.
And so I think even. Even Saul's
story, you know, it starts off with
God gave him a new heart, but
then you see him kind of clearly
reject that new heart, like, almost immediately.
And so it's like, you still have
free will. I would also go so
far as to say that Saul sets
the table for David. Like, it sets
(15:37):
the scenario, the stage for what David
is going to come in. And it
gives us today. And all throughout Jewish
history, like, you have this parallel. Like,
you can see what happens when you
go for the outside, not the inside.
And you can see what happens when
you go for the inside, not the
outside. Like, you've. You've got Saul versus
David. And. And having this stark contrast
(15:57):
gives us a better understanding of a
lot of things in scripture. So, yeah,
I think that even in its negativity,
even in. It's like, why would you
pick Saul? It's like, well, you know,
there's some good that comes from allowing
the wrong person to be in the
position.
Ti'heasha Beasley (16:11):
Yeah, that's true. That's true. So let's
unpack some of his character. What? Let's.
Let's.
Pastor Sol McQuay (16:16):
You.
Ti'heasha Beasley (16:17):
In your sermon, you actually made a
list of some of the things that
that saw was. And I want to
kind of go through the list because
you said this was a warning for
us who are in positions. So let's
see. You said. And I'm looking at
the Bible app for those. A little
plug. Our D.C. bible, apparently. Okay. You
(16:38):
said, saw throughout his calling, he showed
impatience. He was impulsive.
Pastor Sol McQuay (16:44):
He moved by fear or stop moving
because of fear.
Ti'heasha Beasley (16:48):
He stopped moving because of fear. He
was prideful. He. He suffered from jealousy,
and he looked to the world for
his answers.
Pastor Sol McQuay (16:58):
Yep.
Ti'heasha Beasley (16:58):
So.
Pastor Sol McQuay (16:59):
And that is just in the rapid
fire, because you actually read the story.
There's a lot of other things that
he did.
Ti'heasha Beasley (17:03):
Okay, so let's. What's the other thing
says?
Pastor Sol McQuay (17:05):
Because you're like, he lied.
Ti'heasha Beasley (17:08):
Okay.
Pastor Sol McQuay (17:08):
You know, he made excuses. He wanted
to perform, and, you know, he wanted
to say face. He wanted to be
the one honored. He was. What else?
Like, I mean, he. He made excuses
he was created. He making himself the
(17:28):
victim in. In a situation.
Ti'heasha Beasley (17:30):
He is messed up.
Pastor Sol McQuay (17:31):
He. He did. He did all of
it. He did all of it. He
did all of it. Yeah. So he
was arrogant.
Ti'heasha Beasley (17:41):
Yeah, so.
Pastor Brent McQuay (17:44):
But also lazy.
Ti'heasha Beasley (17:46):
That's a lie.
Pastor Sol McQuay (17:46):
Also lazy.
Pastor Brent McQuay (17:47):
Oh yeah, he was very lazy. The
battle story that you're like, this is
Brent's favorite battle. Saul's taking a nap
under a tree during the battle. Yeah,
it says he's resting against a pomegranate
tree.
Ti'heasha Beasley (17:59):
That's crazy. I think this was a
great lesson for, like you said, we
have to be careful what we ask
for for. Because they really desperately wanted
him and he was all types of
messed up. So like, for people watching
this, I feel like we have a
lot of talented people in the world.
How can they really like use this
(18:20):
passage and like see it as, like
you said that warning message? Like outside
of just watching his character flaws and
things of that nature, what are some
things that they can start? Like if
they see these things, how can they
work them out in their lives so
that they don't be rejected from wherever
God is trying to move them to?
Pastor Sol McQuay (18:39):
I think that self awareness is huge.
Like, you cannot make excuses for your
own behavior. And I think that a
lot of people, we tend to do
that, right? Like, you don't want to
be the one that is called out.
You don't want to think about yourself
as somebody that is doing something wrong.
Like every. All the time somebody else
(19:00):
is wrong. But you're the one that
is right 100 of times all the
time. Right? Like, like, no, they were
the ones being me. No, they were
the ones that didn't understand. So I
think that self awareness is key. You
have to know where you are if
you want to get better. So. And
you have to like, look at yourself
truly. Like, you cannot put like any
type of filter to try to say,
(19:21):
okay, but I can justify this because
like, if you knew what I was
going through, then this would be justified.
So let's not look at that. No,
no, no. You have to look at
everything and say, okay, this is where
I am. How can I just surrender
everything to God? You know? But you
will not do that if you are
not self aware. I think that a
lot of people love the calling. You
(19:42):
know, like you tell them you're called
and they're like, yay. Because we all
want the calling, we all want the
title, we all want the position, but
none of us want the discipline to
actually get there. Like, you don't want
to go in the process to getting
there. You just want to just arrive
because you were called. Yeah. And that's
not how it works. Like, we all
have been given this opportunity by God
(20:03):
to join his mission, which is a
huge honor, you know, but God could
choose to do it any other way.
And he decided, hey, I'm gonna partner
with you. So for us, it should
be an honor, not something that it
is already just given.
Ti'heasha Beasley (20:17):
Yeah.
Pastor Sol McQuay (20:17):
You know, and I think that a
lot of people just take it for
granted. Like, I am called, so that
means that I. That God needs me.
Like, no, no, God does not need
you, but he chooses to use us.
Ti'heasha Beasley (20:28):
Yeah.
Pastor Sol McQuay (20:29):
So I think that understanding where you
are and being vulnerable in that space
so that you can get better, so
that you can get stronger, so that
in the moments that you are being
weak, allowing people that you trust to
be able to speak into that, you
know, to say, hey, you are being
prideful again without you just getting defensive,
but actually understanding that it isn't from
(20:51):
a point, a place of. Of love
that they can say, hey, you gotta
settle down a little bit. I think
that all of those things will help
you. But when you don't listen to
any of that, like, you know, like
Samuel was coming to him and saying,
hey, you're doing the wrong thing. And
he kept making excuses, you know, like,
well, it was a people. Well, it
was a this. But still honor me.
Right. But still come with me. But
(21:12):
still do for me. No, like, you
don't get it, you know? So I
think that when. When you have the
people that come, when you have the
Holy Spirit say, this is exactly what
I'm talking about, you need to listen
and you need to actually work to
get better.
Ti'heasha Beasley (21:28):
Yeah. So you did mention Sam. Was
it Samuel you just said that came
to him? Yes. So you mentioned him.
And let's. Let's stay there a little
bit because I do feel like that
was a part of, I guess Saul's
community. And community is very important. Like
having that people in your lives who
can help you. See, maybe this is
(21:50):
like some. A point that I'm stuck
on. When Samuel finally came to Saul,
was it kind of like already too
late or was there a warning period?
Because I.
Pastor Sol McQuay (21:59):
Which time?
Ti'heasha Beasley (22:01):
So it was several times. Because I
feel like I saw. Like maybe I
shouldn't have watched Chosen because I remember
that episode. So like Samuel did come
to Saul, but I feel like it
wasn't warnings before that. So is that
accurate? I'm asking my. The Bible scholars.
Pastor Sol McQuay (22:18):
So I think there's. So we see
in the Bible like when. When Saul
does the unauthorized offering, Samuel tells him,
I'm gonna be coming in seven days.
Wait for me. We're gonna do this.
So is it a warning? Not necessarily,
but he is telling him, this is
what you need to do, and he
(22:38):
doesn't do.
Pastor Brent McQuay (22:39):
And a warning isn't necessary because it
was. It was very clear all the
way from. Like, Moses is the one
that hears from God and sets out.
This is what the Levites do. This
is what everybody else does. So even
though there's a king now, that same
Levitical, like this same priesthood, like, all
of that is still in operation. And
so it's like, you know, does somebody
(23:01):
need to come and warn me? Hey,
Brent, as a pastor, you shouldn't murder
people.
Ti'heasha Beasley (23:07):
I'm sorry, I don't know why that
was like that.
Pastor Brent McQuay (23:10):
Because it's ridiculous, right? Like, but that's
the same thing for salt.
Pastor Sol McQuay (23:13):
You shouldn't, though.
Pastor Brent McQuay (23:14):
I shouldn't, though?
Ti'heasha Beasley (23:15):
Like, not even on your video game.
Pastor Sol McQuay (23:17):
Salt.
Pastor Brent McQuay (23:19):
Hey, now. Too far. Too far. No,
but, like, Saul does not need the
prophet to come and say, hey, kings
are not supposed to make sacrifices. Like,
it's. It's one of those where it's
like, it's so blatantly obvious that when
Saul rejects it and does his own
thing, it literally should make us go,
what an idiot. Like, that is so
(23:41):
messed up.
Ti'heasha Beasley (23:41):
Yeah.
Pastor Sol McQuay (23:42):
Like, what are you doing? Yeah. And
then in chapter 15, that. That's the
one that we unpacked yesterday. Like, fully,
fully. The very first thing that it
says in chapter 15 is, hey, the
Lord, the one that made me anoint
you as a king, has an assignment
for.
Pastor Brent McQuay (23:57):
You, your boss's boss.
Pastor Sol McQuay (23:59):
Like, like, like, like the guy. Right,
right. And then he goes to tell
him, you have to exterminate everybody. You
have to exterminate animals and. And every
single person and all of the things.
And don't take anything. So does he
need a warning for that? No. Like,
he had specific things that he were
(24:20):
supposed to do and carry out.
Ti'heasha Beasley (24:21):
And he did not do it.
Pastor Sol McQuay (24:22):
And he did not do it. So,
like, does he need a warning? Like,
hey, hey, you're taking stuff like, no,
he already had his instructions laid out.
Ti'heasha Beasley (24:30):
Yeah.
Pastor Sol McQuay (24:30):
And he chooses time and time again
what he's going to do.
Ti'heasha Beasley (24:34):
Yeah.
Pastor Sol McQuay (24:35):
And that's why I think the gods
in the Bible, when we read it,
God says he refuses to obey. Like,
it is not that he didn't know
that he needed to obey. He has
chosen not to do it. So that's.
That's huge. Because it is not like,
it was a mistake. It's not like
he did it one time and he
just, you know, forgot about it. Like.
(24:57):
No, no, no. He is deliberately choosing
to do something that he's not supposed
to. So he's refusing to obey.
Ti'heasha Beasley (25:03):
Yeah. And I mean, the thing that
God was asking him to do in
that passage was pretty tremendous. I mean,
take out everybody, everything.
Pastor Sol McQuay (25:12):
Yep.
Ti'heasha Beasley (25:13):
Could one argue that? You know, what's
extreme? Yeah. Like, Saul was like, you
know what? That's. Maybe God didn't mean
this.
Pastor Sol McQuay (25:22):
But. But this is the thing, though,
and.
Ti'heasha Beasley (25:24):
I know that, and I know that.
Pastor Sol McQuay (25:26):
A lot of people are gonna. Are
gonna probably. We even mentioned. Should I
bring this up in. In the message
or not? Because I know that a
lot of people say, how can I
believe in a God that believes in
genocide? Right. Like, how can I believe
in a God that says it's okay
to kill babies and women and just
everybody? But how would you explain that
(25:53):
he has taken this subject before?
Pastor Brent McQuay (25:54):
How much time have we got? 15
minutes. Okay. So the rapid fire version
of that is. It's a very complex
situation. It's not an easy answer. And
people who struggle with their faith because
of that passage, there's a lot of
people that do. And I get it.
I understand. If we had an hour,
we could maybe sit down and unpack
it a little bit better. But essentially
(26:16):
what happens, the reason why I was
shaking my head saying no is like,
for Saul's. For our context, 21st century,
we'd be like, well, that's just messed
up. In Saul's day, that was normal
practice. Like, it was, if you have
an enemy, you wipe them all out.
Because when you leave a generation alive,
what happens a generation later?
Ti'heasha Beasley (26:34):
Yeah.
Pastor Brent McQuay (26:35):
Like, and we actually see this happen
with. With several of God's enemies in.
In that time is when they did
not wipe out an enemy. You see
the people of Israel fighting against them.
For there's some groups for a thousand
years, they're fighting the same enemy because
they didn't do what God told them
to do. So for the Amalekites. Amalekites,
right. I always mix up Ammonites, Amalekites,
(26:57):
Jebusites. There's so many Ites and Canaanites.
Ti'heasha Beasley (27:00):
Right. More correct than what I'm gonna
guess.
Pastor Sol McQuay (27:02):
Yeah.
Pastor Brent McQuay (27:02):
So Amalekites, and in this situation, if
you do a little bit of deeper
dive into scripture, they are the descendants
of Esau. So they're actually, I guess,
technically would be cousins to the Jewish
people. So you've got Jacob and Esau.
Right. You Go all the way back.
All the way back. So if you
trace those family lines, Jacob becomes Israel.
(27:22):
That's the nation. Esau's descendants become the
Amalekites. When the people of Israel are
freed from slavery in Egypt, are on
their journey to the promised land, the
first two groups of people that confront
them are basically Moses in laws and
the cousins, the Amalekites. The in laws
(27:44):
recognize God's blessing on Moses people. And
so they partner with them and say,
hey, we'll support you in whatever you
need, because if you're blessed, we'll be
blessed. The Amalekites take a different approach.
They're actually the first group of people
to try and attack Israel on their
march through the land. Israel never once
(28:05):
initiates aggression against the Amalekites. But I
think it's like four or five different
places in Scripture we see the Amalekites
try and destroy Israel. So they're, they're
on an active pursuit to wipe Israel
off of the map before they even
have a chance to really become a
nation. So in that first attack, basically
God makes this vow, this promise. He
says, I will wipe them out. Like,
(28:26):
I will bring justice. And then he
holds his justice back for several generations.
But we see, it's like, it's like
200 year, 400 year period. I forget
the numbers there. From the time, I
think it's 400 years, from the time
they leave Egypt to the time Saul
is anointed king, it's like a 400
year period. And we see time and
time again, generation after generation, the Amalekites
(28:48):
are attacking Israel. And so finally with
King Saul, God's like, the time has
now come where we need to put
an end to this. Because Saul's rebellion
in disobedience, in doing what he's supposed
to do, the Jewish people continue this
fight against the amalekites for another 600
years.
Ti'heasha Beasley (29:07):
Wow.
Pastor Brent McQuay (29:07):
So, like, the number of deaths and
all of that that happened because of
this act of disobedience is astronomical. So
that's the historical side of things. The
moral side of things is if we
look at death is not an end,
but a transition. And we have other
scriptures supporting this idea that babies go
(29:30):
to heaven when they die. Like, it
becomes less of a, whoa, that's really
messed up. And now it's almost like
a rescue for some of these children.
And I know that even that statement,
some people are gonna be like, that
feels dirty, that feels wrong. And I
get that. I understand this is a
complex, hard, hard issue. But yeah, it's
(29:50):
one of those where we could have
a lot of conversation about. There's also
a historical perspective about Near Eastern military
language conquest language. Like. Like right now
I'm really hoping that this year the
Bears destroy the Packers. I just want
the Bears to just murder the Packers.
Ti'heasha Beasley (30:06):
Okay.
Pastor Brent McQuay (30:07):
Does that mean I want them to
actually be killed? No, it's like there's
a figurative language to this. And so
Near Eastern war language was the same
way. We see that in history, from
the Egyptians to others in that same
area and even other language of Israel
where they said we did wipe this
group of people completely off the map.
(30:27):
And then like one chapter later, it's.
It's talking about like some of the
descendants from the people they completely wiped
off the map. And it's like, oh,
wait, that. So that doesn't actually mean
what it looks like it means. And
so some theologians will use that language
to say, well, God was never really
instructing complete genocide. It was. It was
just the way that they would communicate
war in that time. I don't know.
(30:47):
Yeah, yeah, that was my three minute
response.
Ti'heasha Beasley (30:51):
I mean, that was.
Pastor Brent McQuay (30:51):
I feel more 60 minute conversation.
Pastor Sol McQuay (30:54):
Yeah, it's just. It's just hard, you
know? It is. It is hard. It
is. It is a hard thing. But.
But even in this, like, the fact
that he chose to do what he
wanted to do. And I think that
for me, something that was just so
jarring this, this time around when I
was actually studying is the fact that
it says that they only left what
(31:16):
was a poor quality or that they
were just like.
Pastor Brent McQuay (31:19):
They only destroyed what was poor quality.
Pastor Sol McQuay (31:21):
Destroyed what it was poor quality. Yeah,
like. Like, I don't. We don't care
about this. So. Yeah, I can go.
Ti'heasha Beasley (31:25):
Yeah.
Pastor Sol McQuay (31:26):
Like what is completely. Yes. Complete disregard
for God's instructions.
Ti'heasha Beasley (31:31):
Yeah, yeah.
Pastor Brent McQuay (31:32):
And he claims it's going to be
for a sacrifice to. To God, but
that he doesn't say that in the
chapter, the verses leading up to it.
It's only when he's confronted where he's
like, oh, it was an offering. It's
like, really? Really, bro? Was that really
what you were doing? I don't think
so.
Ti'heasha Beasley (31:49):
Offering to his himself.
Pastor Sol McQuay (31:51):
Right, exactly.
Pastor Brent McQuay (31:52):
It was another monument to himself.
Ti'heasha Beasley (31:54):
Yeah. Oh, my gosh.
Pastor Brent McQuay (31:55):
Yeah. That whole. Yeah, there's a lot.
Pastor Sol McQuay (31:58):
The whole thing.
Ti'heasha Beasley (31:59):
The whole thing. You're right. It's tragic.
Pastor Sol McQuay (32:02):
And we didn't even keep on going
like we are a chap. Like we
ended up chapter 15. Saul's life goes
all the way to chapter 31.
Pastor Brent McQuay (32:10):
And it doesn't get any better.
Pastor Sol McQuay (32:11):
It doesn't get any better. That is
him just crazy trying to kill David.
Yeah.
Pastor Brent McQuay (32:19):
But from, from chapter 16 to chapter
31, he's no longer hearing from God.
He's no longer receiving instruction, man.
Ti'heasha Beasley (32:25):
And that was such a good point.
Point that you brought up in your
message yesterday. Like, you know, in that
day, it was because Samuel was like
the voice that God was using to
speak to Saul. And it was like,
you're not going to have this communication
anymore.
Pastor Sol McQuay (32:41):
Yeah.
Ti'heasha Beasley (32:42):
I couldn't even imagine not hearing from
God anymore.
Pastor Sol McQuay (32:47):
Yeah.
Ti'heasha Beasley (32:48):
In any type of state or position.
But, man, it's a real thing of
how you can. Okay, so let's unpack
this. Can you lose. I don't want
to say salvation, but can you lose
connection with God if you. There's a
scripture that talks, talks about God giving
you over to a reprobated mind. Is
that something that can happen in a
(33:09):
belief in someone's life? I don't know.
Can we call them believers if God
has given them over at some point?
Pastor Sol McQuay (33:14):
But I. I think that a lot
of people. And I hear. And I
have this, I have heard this many,
many, many, many times. You know, people
coming and saying, I want a new
war from God. I want God to
speak to me. I want a new
word from God. And everybody wants a
new revelation and a new word and
a new thing. But they are saying,
you know, like. But I feel like
God is silent. Have you done the
(33:35):
last thing that he told you to
do? You know, because. Because you want
him to speak to you, but he
gives you instructions and you don't do
it. So at some point it's like,
what is the point of me speaking
to you if you're not going to
listen?
Ti'heasha Beasley (33:49):
Yeah.
Pastor Sol McQuay (33:50):
Just to say that you hear my
voice.
Ti'heasha Beasley (33:52):
Thanks.
Pastor Sol McQuay (33:53):
You know what I'm saying? So I
think that a lot of people are
going around wanting a new revelation when
God already spoke. You just need to
obey.
Ti'heasha Beasley (34:00):
Yeah, that's good.
Pastor Sol McQuay (34:02):
So instead of just keep looking for,
like, when is God gonna tell me
new things? Well, do keep doing the
old things.
Pastor Brent McQuay (34:10):
And man, there's a tried and true
method. You want to hear from God,
Open up your Bible.
Pastor Sol McQuay (34:14):
Yes.
Pastor Brent McQuay (34:14):
Every time you read it, he's speaking.
Pastor Sol McQuay (34:16):
Yes.
Pastor Brent McQuay (34:17):
There you go. Boom.
Pastor Sol McQuay (34:18):
Yes.
Ti'heasha Beasley (34:19):
So technically, he won't ever stop speaking
to you if you read your Bible.
Pastor Sol McQuay (34:23):
I mean, if you seek him.
Ti'heasha Beasley (34:25):
Yeah.
Pastor Sol McQuay (34:25):
He will speak to us.
Pastor Brent McQuay (34:27):
Yeah. But as far as, like, that
whole closed off, like, I think that
that's a legit thing. I mean, we
read about Pharaoh it's like, pharaoh, harden
his heart. Pharaoh, harden his heart. Pharaoh,
harden his heart. Hardened his heart. It's
like five or six times. And then
the next time we read it, it's,
God hardened Pharaoh's heart. Like, it's like,
yeah. At some point, God was like,
okay, I gave you opportunity. I gave
you chances, and now we're done.
Ti'heasha Beasley (34:50):
Yeah.
Pastor Brent McQuay (34:50):
And so, like, I. I think that
that could be a very real thing.
It's not something that sounds pretty or
something that we want to talk about.
And I think that the reality is
if. Even. Even in that if Pharaoh
had repented, I think that God's judgment
would have. Would have been a beast,
like, in that moment. And so, like
today, like, even if you feel like
(35:11):
you God has stopped speaking to you
or has rejected you in some way,
like, grace is the fact that we
can always repent. It's just. I think
that for somebody that has reached that
level, they would never come to the
place of, I can repent. And I
think that's what makes it look different.
Ti'heasha Beasley (35:29):
Yeah. It's definitely a compare contrast situation
between David and Saul and that Huge.
Huge.
Pastor Brent McQuay (35:40):
Because they both mess up.
Ti'heasha Beasley (35:41):
They do.
Pastor Brent McQuay (35:41):
But their reactions to messing up are
so completely different.
Ti'heasha Beasley (35:45):
Yeah.
Pastor Brent McQuay (35:45):
I mean, David immediately just says, I've
sinned against the Lord.
Ti'heasha Beasley (35:50):
Yeah.
Pastor Brent McQuay (35:50):
Whereas even when Saul finally admits, I
have sinned, it's still. It's wrapped in
excuses and denials and justifications. And even
after that, yet, like, yes, I. I've
sinned, but I need the people to
think that I'm okay. Right. Like, between
you and me, I sinned. But for
(36:11):
my face to the people come back
and, you know, honor me by. By
making these sacrifices of the things that
I kept alive. And it's like, no,
that. That reaction and David's reaction, totally
different.
Pastor Sol McQuay (36:24):
Yeah. And I think that it is
just the fact that David's heart was
truly broken for what he had done.
Ti'heasha Beasley (36:30):
Yeah.
Pastor Sol McQuay (36:31):
And I think that for Saul, his
morale was broken. Like, he's like. Like
his. His ego was wounded, but not
his heart.
Ti'heasha Beasley (36:41):
Yeah. And I liked. The biggest thing
that I like to compare is that
David, he went back when he was
chosen to be king. He went back
and served. As soon as Saul was
chosen, he went into full it's about
me mode. And, you know, I think
that's a clear distinction of, like, man.
That's a red flag right there. If
(37:02):
you're chosen for something and you say,
oh, how can I make this whole
thing about me?
Pastor Sol McQuay (37:07):
Yeah.
Ti'heasha Beasley (37:07):
That's. You need to just. Community chime
in. You know what I mean?
Pastor Brent McQuay (37:13):
Spoilers for next week. So, like, if
your calling gives you pride and arrogance
of, like, look at me, there's something
beautiful next week. We're talking about Esther.
And there's something amazing in Esther's story
that sometimes we just gloss over because
we love the part where it says,
for such a time as this, right?
Like, we grab a hold of that.
Ti'heasha Beasley (37:30):
I mean, it's T shirts everywhere.
Pastor Brent McQuay (37:31):
But what Mordecai says right before that
is, salvation will come from somewhere else.
Like, Esther, if you don't do it.
Pastor Sol McQuay (37:41):
Somebody else, you don't do it.
Pastor Brent McQuay (37:43):
God's still gonna make this thing happen.
It's not you that's so special. It's
God, and he's chosen you for this
moment. But don't mess it up. Like,
don't. Don't mix this up. If you
say no, God's gonna say, fine, I'll
use somebody else.
Pastor Sol McQuay (38:01):
But he's gonna save his people.
Pastor Brent McQuay (38:02):
God is still gonna save his people.
God is still gonna accomplish what he
wants to accomplish on this Earth, whether
you're a part of or not. So
when we're called if that gives us
this arrogance of, like, look how.
Ti'heasha Beasley (38:11):
Special I am, bro, you will be
rejected.
Pastor Sol McQuay (38:15):
You will miss it because. Yeah, no,
you will miss it 100% because we.
And that's what I was saying earlier.
It should give us this sense of
honor that we get to be a
part of it. Like, if you don't.
If you don't choose to be a
part of it, God's still gonna do
it, but you're the one that is
missing out, you know? But his. His.
(38:37):
His will for this Earth will be
accomplished. What he wants to do will
be accomplished. Do you want to be
a part of it, or you just
want to watch it?
Ti'heasha Beasley (38:47):
Okay, this is too much. This episode
is. I'm completely on fire, and we
are completely out of time. But this
was such a great episode. Okay, quick
takeaways. Quick takeaway as we land this
plane.
Pastor Sol McQuay (39:00):
Is that you have a call. You
have been called to know God. You
have been called to walk closely with
God and to go and make disciples.
That's the call that we all share.
How it looks like it's different. So
you have to do those things in
whatever place you are. So just remember
that the call of God on your
(39:21):
life, first and foremost, is to know
him, is to be close to him.
And then from that, everything else will
stem out. So if you are not
having constant communication with God, everything else
will fall apart at some point. So
your Biggest call is the call to
Jesus. So follow Jesus. Follow. Follow Jesus.
Love Jesus. Get to know Jesus, you
know, because from there, everything else will
(39:43):
take place.
Ti'heasha Beasley (39:44):
Yep. That's good.
Pastor Brent McQuay (39:45):
I love it. I would say when
you read Saul's story, read it as
a mirror for your own life to
reflect. Like, where am I matching Saul?
I loved your question. You know, does
my level of obedience look a lot
like Saul's level of obedience?
Pastor Sol McQuay (40:01):
Meaning not at all.
Pastor Brent McQuay (40:03):
Exactly. So. So, yeah. So when you
read Saul's story, it's not a window
into. Look at how messed up this
guy was.
Pastor Sol McQuay (40:09):
Is.
Pastor Brent McQuay (40:10):
Yeah, it's. Am I as messed up
as this guy is?
Ti'heasha Beasley (40:13):
That's good. These are all good. I
will say mine is one of the
quotes you put in your sermon, and
I loved it so much. Your calling
will get you in the room, but
your character will keep you there. And
so it's really not an extra point.
I think it kind of closes in
on what you guys both said. And
so I will just encourage you, man,
(40:35):
go watch that sermon. It is live
right now on YouTube @we are Disciples
Church. And you're probably there because this
is where the sermon is. So just
scroll on down and watch that episode.
Thank you guys for your feedback. We've
been getting more comments. I love that.
And by the way, people, like, when
I say, let's land this plane, and
someone said in the comments, put it
(40:57):
on a T shirt. So let's.
Pastor Sol McQuay (40:58):
Let's land this plane.
Ti'heasha Beasley (40:59):
Can we do it?
Pastor Sol McQuay (41:01):
Let's get off the Runway.
Pastor Brent McQuay (41:04):
Would it be weird to wear that
T shirt on, like, an airplane?
Pastor Sol McQuay (41:07):
Like, let's land this plane.
Ti'heasha Beasley (41:09):
It would be weird.
Pastor Brent McQuay (41:10):
Like, people would be like, I agree.
Ti'heasha Beasley (41:11):
I agree.
Pastor Sol McQuay (41:13):
Now I feel like we need all
of the airport references. Let's take off.
Ti'heasha Beasley (41:16):
Let's take off.
Pastor Brent McQuay (41:18):
Please don't. Don't encourage her.
Pastor Sol McQuay (41:20):
Put your mask before you put somebody
else's mask on.
Ti'heasha Beasley (41:24):
You know, spiritually love it. This is
why I love. I love spiritually free
peanuts.
Pastor Brent McQuay (41:31):
What. What else works here?
Ti'heasha Beasley (41:33):
Anyway, we're having so much fun here,
but we pray that God is with
you this week. He is with you,
and we pray that you just enjoy
this message, share it with your friends,
and, yeah, until next time, we love
you.
Foreign. Welcome to another episode of Between
Sermons, where we are continuing our conversation
from the Sunday sermon. Turning that monologue
into dialogue. I'm Pastor Brent. I get
to be the lead pastor at Disciples
(00:21):
Church, and I'm glad you're hanging out
with us today. And hopefully this conversation
will be beneficial to you. It's going
to be a little bit of a
shorter conversation today because apparently I don't
pay attention to the clock very well.
But in order to help us do
that, Tyisha Beasley, keep us on point
today, focused and directed.
Ti'heasha Beasley (00:38):
I love the accountability, self awareness.
Pastor Sol McQuay (00:41):
It's all me.
Ti'heasha Beasley (00:42):
I love it.
Pastor Brent McQuay (00:43):
People are gonna be like, wow, that
was a really short conversation with your
wife. You don't love her very much,
do you?
Pastor Sol McQuay (00:47):
And I like to talk, and I
have to not talk. Thank you very
much.
Ti'heasha Beasley (00:52):
Oh, my gosh. I'm so happy. I'm
happy to be here today. You guys
are matching a little bit with your
gray tones. So cute.
Pastor Sol McQuay (00:59):
Look at that.
Ti'heasha Beasley (01:00):
I love it. So it's giving me
all the vibes.
Pastor Brent McQuay (01:02):
Super intentional, by the way.
Ti'heasha Beasley (01:03):
Super.
Pastor Sol McQuay (01:05):
No, it wasn't.
Ti'heasha Beasley (01:07):
Well, I'm happy, too, because my sister's
on the show. Yay. You gotta do
fingers. Fingers.
Pastor Sol McQuay (01:12):
Okay, whatever.
Pastor Brent McQuay (01:14):
And you guys need me to leave?
Is this just. You're just gonna hang
out and talk.
Ti'heasha Beasley (01:17):
The two of you?
Pastor Brent McQuay (01:18):
My presence is not necessary.
Ti'heasha Beasley (01:20):
Sure. We could do this for 30,
45 minutes? For sure. Yes. So I'm
just happy to be here because you
preached an amazing message, and we are
still continuing the conversation from our called
series. So yesterday you had an opportunity
to deliver the message, which is why
you are joining us today.
Pastor Sol McQuay (01:41):
Yes.
Ti'heasha Beasley (01:41):
How you feeling? I mean, you go
from the stage to the seat, it
just.
Pastor Sol McQuay (01:46):
Just keep on rolling. You just ride
the wave.
Pastor Brent McQuay (01:48):
And then she's leading the Devo lady
today.
Pastor Sol McQuay (01:51):
Yes.
Ti'heasha Beasley (01:52):
How much coffee did you have to
prepare for?
Pastor Sol McQuay (01:54):
I did all of the coffee. I
need all of the coffee. Like, yesterday,
I brought a coffee from home, and
then Bren got me a coffee from
Dunkin Donuts, and I had so much
coffee, it was just.
Ti'heasha Beasley (02:03):
Oh, my goodness.
Pastor Sol McQuay (02:04):
It was great.
Ti'heasha Beasley (02:05):
Okay. Still overflow. So give us a
little summary of yesterday's message. Who did
we cover in the. In the series?
Pastor Sol McQuay (02:15):
So it was funny because I talked
about Saul, King Saul in the Bible.
In the. In the Old Testament. And
the funny thing is that that was
not supposed to be my subject.
Ti'heasha Beasley (02:24):
It wasn't?
Pastor Sol McQuay (02:25):
No. I was supposed to be talking
about Peter. That was. When we did
our calendar meeting a year ago, we
had Peter as the person that I
was supposed to talk about. But then
we're going to be doing a series
here. Coming up on this.
Ti'heasha Beasley (02:39):
You give the spoilers a little.
Pastor Sol McQuay (02:41):
Just a little bit. Just a little
bit. So we were talking about it
and we were saying, okay, we cannot
just do all of this stuff, you
know, like, go all in the background
of Peter if that is what is
going to be coming up in just
a couple of weeks. So it will
just be too redundant. So we were
trying to figure out a different person
and we started making a list of
all of the different people that could
(03:01):
be good to talk about. And I
was like, no, I don't feel like
that person. No, everybody talks about that
person. No, I kept just saying no
to everybody. And the only one that
was left was Sol. And I was
like, I guess I get Sol. And
Brent literally said, are you sure?
Ti'heasha Beasley (03:15):
Yeah.
Pastor Sol McQuay (03:16):
And I said, get the bad boy.
Why not?
Ti'heasha Beasley (03:18):
Okay. So I would say, why did
you say, are you sure?
Pastor Brent McQuay (03:21):
Just because everybody else on the list.
So we did pretty much very quickly
narrowed down to Old Testament.
Ti'heasha Beasley (03:26):
Yeah.
Pastor Brent McQuay (03:27):
Just for the thematic. But then going
through the list, there was only one
person that was like the anti calling
guy. It was like, everybody else is
like, learn from great people. Do what
they did. And then you get the
Saul. And it's like, don't do what
this guy does. And so I was
like, well, Saul, you're right in the
middle. It could fit, it could work,
(03:49):
but that's up to you. Like, do
you really want to talk about all
the things you shouldn't be doing?
Pastor Sol McQuay (03:55):
So I said, yes. I was very
excited. I'm like, let's do it. Let's
do Saul. And as I started studying
and trying to put everything together, I
regretted picking Saul just as God did.
I was like, I regret that I
picked this guy.
Ti'heasha Beasley (04:13):
This is horrible because it was so
much.
Pastor Sol McQuay (04:17):
I was like, oh, Lord, where do
I go from here?
Ti'heasha Beasley (04:21):
Where do I go from that statement?
Like that is, if you want to
be a top tier failure, be like
Saul. Not only was he rejected in
scripture by God, he is rejected still
in 2020.
Pastor Sol McQuay (04:34):
Listen, I was reading all of his
story and I was like, I don't
even know how to narrow it down.
Like, it feels like every single thing
that you read is bad. It's terrible.
So trying to figure it out, what
to focus on, you know, was. Was
challenging. Then I was trying to. To
(04:54):
come up with like, maybe I have
three points, you know, and like, I
have like the don't do this, don't
do that, and kind of like, just
make it everything broad. But you couldn't
because it was just so much. It
was. It was quite challenging to actually
put the whole message together in a
way that people can actually get something
out of it, that you can actually
see yourself in it. Because I think
(05:16):
that that was the main thing for
me is we all have been there.
And I think the more that you
actually study people in the Bible and
the more that you realize that these
are real people, that it is not
just fiction, you know, it is not
just somebody that has been made up.
Ti'heasha Beasley (05:33):
Yeah.
Pastor Sol McQuay (05:33):
It's real people that did real things
that you realize. I have done that
too. You know, like, I have been
feeling that way too. And I think
that that was the, The. The hard
thing for me with all of it
was the fact that if we really
are honest and like, we. If we
(05:53):
put all of our church talk to
the side and are like, oh, we
are holy. Like, if you are real,
real. You have experienced some of this
stuff and you have done some of
this stuff too.
Ti'heasha Beasley (06:05):
Yeah.
Pastor Sol McQuay (06:05):
And I think that that was when
I realized what this has to be
is a warning. Because if we, if
we keep going in this direction, the
call of God in our life is
going to be choked.
Ti'heasha Beasley (06:15):
O. Okay. That was so good. I
mean, I feel like you could just
keep talking and we can benefit from
it. I. I love how you are
unpacking, like, I mean, laying out his
life and how this is a warning.
I love that statement. So let's go
back to the top where he was
actually chosen by God. So, Pastor Brent,
why do you feel like he. He
(06:36):
was chosen by God when these, these
group of people were saying, we give
us a king, why do you think
God chose him?
Pastor Brent McQuay (06:43):
So I, I don't think God chose
him for God's benefit. Right. So, like,
there's a. There's a distinction in when
God calls Saul to be king over
the nation and when God calls David
to be king. When God calls David,
he specifically says, I've chosen him for
myself with Saul. It's not that. So
(07:07):
I think God basically just gave them
exactly what they were looking for. So,
like, if they were up to themselves
to choose somebody, they would have chosen
the tall, dark, and handsome guy. Like,
they, they would have picked this guy.
He's head and shoulders above everybody else.
Like, they'd look at him and be
like, that's a king. That's a. Because
he's. He. It. I love the comparison.
(07:27):
David's story, it's. Don't look at the
outside, look at the inside. Saul is
very much, look at the outside, don't
look at the inside. The inside's a
mess. Just look at the outside, and
we see that unravel. So I think
it's one of those where it's like.
So it may be a cautionary tale
for all of us. Like, sometimes God
will give you exactly what you're asking
for, but it's not for your benefit.
Ti'heasha Beasley (07:47):
Y' all are on fire this morning.
Pastor Sol McQuay (07:51):
We ought to go fast so we
like, okay, here we go.
Ti'heasha Beasley (07:54):
Y' all going hard. What is it
called? Clock it. Clock it.
Pastor Brent McQuay (07:57):
I have no idea. I'm too old
for that.
Ti'heasha Beasley (07:59):
It's a TikTok thing.
Pastor Sol McQuay (08:00):
See, I don't have TikTok. We were
just talking about how I don't have
TikTok.
Pastor Brent McQuay (08:05):
That's a realm of tick tock. I
don't know. So.
Ti'heasha Beasley (08:08):
So I love that. So really, let's.
Let's stay there for a little bit
because we do know a lot of
people who are very talented and they
look like they fit the job in
most places. Especially we see that in
ministry. So as leaders, how do you
not get the desire to just put
(08:29):
people in places because they are gifted
and look the part? Like, how do
you maneuver that space that.
Pastor Brent McQuay (08:37):
Honestly, that may be the million dollar
question. And if I can figure that
one out really well, I'd write a
book and retire off the proceeds or
something. I don't know. Yeah, it's. It's
never easy, right? Because, like, no matter
how much you know this stuff, you
find somebody that's charismatic, you find somebody
that, like, fits the part, and you're
like, oh, this guy's going to amazing.
(08:58):
And so we've. We've absolutely fallen into
that trap before. And you try and
do your due diligence. You try. And
the interview process, the talking. We have
a series of interview questions that we'll
do, really, to get at somebody's heart
more than just their experience. Not just,
what have you done? But who are
you as a person? But even within
all that, like, we're human beings and
(09:19):
we're flawed, and sometimes you get. You
get blinded by the bright stars.
Ti'heasha Beasley (09:23):
Yeah.
Pastor Brent McQuay (09:24):
Um. So, yeah, I'm still figuring that
one out.
Ti'heasha Beasley (09:26):
Okay.
Pastor Sol McQuay (09:26):
But I think that's something that we
have learned, you know, the hard way,
really, is that you have to definitely
spend more time with people before you
just say, let's all get on board,
and you just do whatever it is
that you wanted people to do and
actually start looking at people's character. How.
(09:49):
How do they actually live what is
their testimony? What is the fruit of
their lives? Because you can teach skill,
but you cannot teach character.
Ti'heasha Beasley (10:00):
Yeah, that's good.
Pastor Sol McQuay (10:01):
Right. So if that person has good
character, the skill will come, the training
will come. Things will, you know, you
will be able to get there. But
if somebody is lacking character, that is
something that will take everything down with
it. So. So we have to be
a little more careful with that. And.
And that. That's something that we have
definitely learned.
Ti'heasha Beasley (10:20):
Yeah.
Pastor Sol McQuay (10:21):
There's so many people that have so
many gifts and that they can make
any place so much better, but the
moment that the character is bringing. Brought
into the situation.
Ti'heasha Beasley (10:33):
Yeah. Yeah.
Pastor Sol McQuay (10:34):
All of the talent and all of
the bells and whistles falls short. And
it's like you did so many great
things, but you cannot sustain it.
Ti'heasha Beasley (10:42):
Yeah, yeah.
Pastor Brent McQuay (10:43):
There's definitely red flags, and I think
sometimes because of our blindness to how
amazing somebody is on the outside or.
Or even our timetable and how desperate
we are, it's like, oh, this person's
perfect, and we need it right now
that you can. You can be kind
of colorblind and you can see a
red flag. And it's like. Well, it's
a. Kind of a gray flag. I
don't know.
Ti'heasha Beasley (11:03):
It's all right. It's not quite green
or red. Gray.
Pastor Brent McQuay (11:07):
Gray area. You know, we will work
on that one as we go.
Ti'heasha Beasley (11:11):
God's not through with them yet.
Pastor Brent McQuay (11:13):
Ex. And it's a hard, balanced fight.
Because is there anybody that's perfect? No.
Like, even. Even our character. I mean,
David, our example from last week, like,
man after God's own heart. Awesome character.
Also adulterous. Also, you know, I mean,
you could go even beyond just adultery.
What he did with Bathsheba was an
abuse of power. I mean, that's. Yeah,
(11:33):
yeah. There's. There's words for that of
what David did, and they're not pretty
words. And so. Yeah. So it's tough.
Ti'heasha Beasley (11:42):
Yeah. So where did Saul. Where did
he start to go wrong? Do you
think he's. He was always this person
in his heart and it was just
exposed over time, or do you think.
Pastor Sol McQuay (11:52):
I think so.
Ti'heasha Beasley (11:52):
Okay.
Pastor Sol McQuay (11:53):
I think that.
Ti'heasha Beasley (11:54):
Spend a lot of time with Saul.
I'm not giving him no room.
Pastor Sol McQuay (11:58):
This is the thing. You. You read
the Bible, and as you read his.
Even his calling, the very first thing
that you hear after. After the fact
that he's been anointed and stuff, like,
as he's seeing the signs that Samuel
tell him that he's going to see
God changes his heart. The spirit comes
powerfully upon him, yet he goes immediately
(12:19):
and hides, you know, so, like, it
is not even somebody that is understanding
what God is doing in his life.
Like, he is still very much himself,
you know? And the moment that. That
the first battle is gonna come and
he's on the fields, working the fields,
and then he comes and he hears
like, they want to gouge everybody's eye.
(12:40):
And he's like, what is happening? Instead
of him just trying to say, okay,
God is gonna deliver us. Like, God
can do something. Like, the spirit of
God comes powerful upon him, but yet
he is still threatening people. Like, if
you don't go with me when I
win and I come back, y' all
are gonna pay. Right?
Ti'heasha Beasley (12:59):
Yeah. Red flag, Peter. Red flag.
Pastor Brent McQuay (13:03):
From motivational leadership right there.
Pastor Sol McQuay (13:05):
Like, from the get go, it was
always rage, and it was always, like,
trying to put himself in a position
or trying to hide. Like, it was
like, always that power of. Or that
struggle, I should say, in his person.
Like, it was never just trusting God.
And like, well, God put me here,
(13:26):
so he is gonna be before us
and he is gonna make the way.
Like, he. He kind of always did
his own thing in one way or
another. And I don't think that he
ever was submitted to the will of
God at any point.
Ti'heasha Beasley (13:41):
Okay, so now I'm okay, so God
is sovereign. He's wise in all his
decisions. He knew that Saul would fail,
and he knew Saul's heart. Why was
he still chosen? I have all the
questions.
Pastor Sol McQuay (13:55):
And this is the thing. God knew.
And he told Samuel, go tell the
people what is going to happen if
they choose a king. And the people
were like, we don't care. We want
a king. Right? So, like, God told
the people, this is what is going
to happen when a flawed man, somebody
that. That it is not perfect and
(14:15):
holy and righteous leads the way. Is
that what you want? And they say,
yes. So they got what they wanted.
Like, I don't think that any other
person. And I don't know. I don't
know. I don't know people or I
don't know, you know, alternate scenarios. But
I don't think that any single person
would have been better. Like, even, you
(14:36):
see, with David, even though David was
after God's own heart, he was not
a perfect king either.
Ti'heasha Beasley (14:41):
Right.
Pastor Sol McQuay (14:42):
You know, so it doesn't matter who
you put in charge of the person
or of the. Or of the nation,
when you are removing God from the
place, you are doomed to fail.
Ti'heasha Beasley (14:53):
Yeah, so that was the setup. It
was more so, like, I don't I'm
still rest. Because when you say God,
we hear the term chosen, and I'm
like, God was intentional. Like, this was
God's plan. But it seemed like more
like a. Not a band aid, but
like, all right, you want somebody, Here
he is. So I don't know if
it was punishment to the people.
Pastor Brent McQuay (15:14):
I think it's a testimony to free
will.
Ti'heasha Beasley (15:16):
Okay.
Pastor Brent McQuay (15:17):
And that. That free will is always
going to be on the table. Wow.
And so I think even. Even Saul's
story, you know, it starts off with
God gave him a new heart, but
then you see him kind of clearly
reject that new heart, like, almost immediately.
And so it's like, you still have
free will. I would also go so
far as to say that Saul sets
the table for David. Like, it sets
(15:37):
the scenario, the stage for what David
is going to come in. And it
gives us today. And all throughout Jewish
history, like, you have this parallel. Like,
you can see what happens when you
go for the outside, not the inside.
And you can see what happens when
you go for the inside, not the
outside. Like, you've. You've got Saul versus
David. And. And having this stark contrast
(15:57):
gives us a better understanding of a
lot of things in scripture. So, yeah,
I think that even in its negativity,
even in. It's like, why would you
pick Saul? It's like, well, you know,
there's some good that comes from allowing
the wrong person to be in the
position.
Ti'heasha Beasley (16:11):
Yeah, that's true. That's true. So let's
unpack some of his character. What? Let's.
Let's.
Pastor Sol McQuay (16:16):
You.
Ti'heasha Beasley (16:17):
In your sermon, you actually made a
list of some of the things that
that saw was. And I want to
kind of go through the list because
you said this was a warning for
us who are in positions. So let's
see. You said. And I'm looking at
the Bible app for those. A little
plug. Our D.C. bible, apparently. Okay. You
(16:38):
said, saw throughout his calling, he showed
impatience. He was impulsive.
Pastor Sol McQuay (16:44):
He moved by fear or stop moving
because of fear.
Ti'heasha Beasley (16:48):
He stopped moving because of fear. He
was prideful. He. He suffered from jealousy,
and he looked to the world for
his answers.
Pastor Sol McQuay (16:58):
Yep.
Ti'heasha Beasley (16:58):
So.
Pastor Sol McQuay (16:59):
And that is just in the rapid
fire, because you actually read the story.
There's a lot of other things that
he did.
Ti'heasha Beasley (17:03):
Okay, so let's. What's the other thing
says?
Pastor Sol McQuay (17:05):
Because you're like, he lied.
Ti'heasha Beasley (17:08):
Okay.
Pastor Sol McQuay (17:08):
You know, he made excuses. He wanted
to perform, and, you know, he wanted
to say face. He wanted to be
the one honored. He was. What else?
Like, I mean, he. He made excuses
he was created. He making himself the
(17:28):
victim in. In a situation.
Ti'heasha Beasley (17:30):
He is messed up.
Pastor Sol McQuay (17:31):
He. He did. He did all of
it. He did all of it. He
did all of it. Yeah. So he
was arrogant.
Ti'heasha Beasley (17:41):
Yeah, so.
Pastor Brent McQuay (17:44):
But also lazy.
Ti'heasha Beasley (17:46):
That's a lie.
Pastor Sol McQuay (17:46):
Also lazy.
Pastor Brent McQuay (17:47):
Oh yeah, he was very lazy. The
battle story that you're like, this is
Brent's favorite battle. Saul's taking a nap
under a tree during the battle. Yeah,
it says he's resting against a pomegranate
tree.
Ti'heasha Beasley (17:59):
That's crazy. I think this was a
great lesson for, like you said, we
have to be careful what we ask
for for. Because they really desperately wanted
him and he was all types of
messed up. So like, for people watching
this, I feel like we have a
lot of talented people in the world.
How can they really like use this
(18:20):
passage and like see it as, like
you said that warning message? Like outside
of just watching his character flaws and
things of that nature, what are some
things that they can start? Like if
they see these things, how can they
work them out in their lives so
that they don't be rejected from wherever
God is trying to move them to?
Pastor Sol McQuay (18:39):
I think that self awareness is huge.
Like, you cannot make excuses for your
own behavior. And I think that a
lot of people, we tend to do
that, right? Like, you don't want to
be the one that is called out.
You don't want to think about yourself
as somebody that is doing something wrong.
Like every. All the time somebody else
(19:00):
is wrong. But you're the one that
is right 100 of times all the
time. Right? Like, like, no, they were
the ones being me. No, they were
the ones that didn't understand. So I
think that self awareness is key. You
have to know where you are if
you want to get better. So. And
you have to like, look at yourself
truly. Like, you cannot put like any
type of filter to try to say,
(19:21):
okay, but I can justify this because
like, if you knew what I was
going through, then this would be justified.
So let's not look at that. No,
no, no. You have to look at
everything and say, okay, this is where
I am. How can I just surrender
everything to God? You know? But you
will not do that if you are
not self aware. I think that a
lot of people love the calling. You
(19:42):
know, like you tell them you're called
and they're like, yay. Because we all
want the calling, we all want the
title, we all want the position, but
none of us want the discipline to
actually get there. Like, you don't want
to go in the process to getting
there. You just want to just arrive
because you were called. Yeah. And that's
not how it works. Like, we all
have been given this opportunity by God
(20:03):
to join his mission, which is a
huge honor, you know, but God could
choose to do it any other way.
And he decided, hey, I'm gonna partner
with you. So for us, it should
be an honor, not something that it
is already just given.
Ti'heasha Beasley (20:17):
Yeah.
Pastor Sol McQuay (20:17):
You know, and I think that a
lot of people just take it for
granted. Like, I am called, so that
means that I. That God needs me.
Like, no, no, God does not need
you, but he chooses to use us.
Ti'heasha Beasley (20:28):
Yeah.
Pastor Sol McQuay (20:29):
So I think that understanding where you
are and being vulnerable in that space
so that you can get better, so
that you can get stronger, so that
in the moments that you are being
weak, allowing people that you trust to
be able to speak into that, you
know, to say, hey, you are being
prideful again without you just getting defensive,
but actually understanding that it isn't from
(20:51):
a point, a place of. Of love
that they can say, hey, you gotta
settle down a little bit. I think
that all of those things will help
you. But when you don't listen to
any of that, like, you know, like
Samuel was coming to him and saying,
hey, you're doing the wrong thing. And
he kept making excuses, you know, like,
well, it was a people. Well, it
was a this. But still honor me.
Right. But still come with me. But
(21:12):
still do for me. No, like, you
don't get it, you know? So I
think that when. When you have the
people that come, when you have the
Holy Spirit say, this is exactly what
I'm talking about, you need to listen
and you need to actually work to
get better.
Ti'heasha Beasley (21:28):
Yeah. So you did mention Sam. Was
it Samuel you just said that came
to him? Yes. So you mentioned him.
And let's. Let's stay there a little
bit because I do feel like that
was a part of, I guess Saul's
community. And community is very important. Like
having that people in your lives who
can help you. See, maybe this is
(21:50):
like some. A point that I'm stuck
on. When Samuel finally came to Saul,
was it kind of like already too
late or was there a warning period?
Because I.
Pastor Sol McQuay (21:59):
Which time?
Ti'heasha Beasley (22:01):
So it was several times. Because I
feel like I saw. Like maybe I
shouldn't have watched Chosen because I remember
that episode. So like Samuel did come
to Saul, but I feel like it
wasn't warnings before that. So is that
accurate? I'm asking my. The Bible scholars.
Pastor Sol McQuay (22:18):
So I think there's. So we see
in the Bible like when. When Saul
does the unauthorized offering, Samuel tells him,
I'm gonna be coming in seven days.
Wait for me. We're gonna do this.
So is it a warning? Not necessarily,
but he is telling him, this is
what you need to do, and he
(22:38):
doesn't do.
Pastor Brent McQuay (22:39):
And a warning isn't necessary because it
was. It was very clear all the
way from. Like, Moses is the one
that hears from God and sets out.
This is what the Levites do. This
is what everybody else does. So even
though there's a king now, that same
Levitical, like this same priesthood, like, all
of that is still in operation. And
so it's like, you know, does somebody
(23:01):
need to come and warn me? Hey,
Brent, as a pastor, you shouldn't murder
people.
Ti'heasha Beasley (23:07):
I'm sorry, I don't know why that
was like that.
Pastor Brent McQuay (23:10):
Because it's ridiculous, right? Like, but that's
the same thing for salt.
Pastor Sol McQuay (23:13):
You shouldn't, though.
Pastor Brent McQuay (23:14):
I shouldn't, though?
Ti'heasha Beasley (23:15):
Like, not even on your video game.
Pastor Sol McQuay (23:17):
Salt.
Pastor Brent McQuay (23:19):
Hey, now. Too far. Too far. No,
but, like, Saul does not need the
prophet to come and say, hey, kings
are not supposed to make sacrifices. Like,
it's. It's one of those where it's
like, it's so blatantly obvious that when
Saul rejects it and does his own
thing, it literally should make us go,
what an idiot. Like, that is so
(23:41):
messed up.
Ti'heasha Beasley (23:41):
Yeah.
Pastor Sol McQuay (23:42):
Like, what are you doing? Yeah. And
then in chapter 15, that. That's the
one that we unpacked yesterday. Like, fully,
fully. The very first thing that it
says in chapter 15 is, hey, the
Lord, the one that made me anoint
you as a king, has an assignment
for.
Pastor Brent McQuay (23:57):
You, your boss's boss.
Pastor Sol McQuay (23:59):
Like, like, like, like the guy. Right,
right. And then he goes to tell
him, you have to exterminate everybody. You
have to exterminate animals and. And every
single person and all of the things.
And don't take anything. So does he
need a warning for that? No. Like,
he had specific things that he were
(24:20):
supposed to do and carry out.
Ti'heasha Beasley (24:21):
And he did not do it.
Pastor Sol McQuay (24:22):
And he did not do it. So,
like, does he need a warning? Like,
hey, hey, you're taking stuff like, no,
he already had his instructions laid out.
Ti'heasha Beasley (24:30):
Yeah.
Pastor Sol McQuay (24:30):
And he chooses time and time again
what he's going to do.
Ti'heasha Beasley (24:34):
Yeah.
Pastor Sol McQuay (24:35):
And that's why I think the gods
in the Bible, when we read it,
God says he refuses to obey. Like,
it is not that he didn't know
that he needed to obey. He has
chosen not to do it. So that's.
That's huge. Because it is not like,
it was a mistake. It's not like
he did it one time and he
just, you know, forgot about it. Like.
(24:57):
No, no, no. He is deliberately choosing
to do something that he's not supposed
to. So he's refusing to obey.
Ti'heasha Beasley (25:03):
Yeah. And I mean, the thing that
God was asking him to do in
that passage was pretty tremendous. I mean,
take out everybody, everything.
Pastor Sol McQuay (25:12):
Yep.
Ti'heasha Beasley (25:13):
Could one argue that? You know, what's
extreme? Yeah. Like, Saul was like, you
know what? That's. Maybe God didn't mean
this.
Pastor Sol McQuay (25:22):
But. But this is the thing, though,
and.
Ti'heasha Beasley (25:24):
I know that, and I know that.
Pastor Sol McQuay (25:26):
A lot of people are gonna. Are
gonna probably. We even mentioned. Should I
bring this up in. In the message
or not? Because I know that a
lot of people say, how can I
believe in a God that believes in
genocide? Right. Like, how can I believe
in a God that says it's okay
to kill babies and women and just
everybody? But how would you explain that
(25:53):
he has taken this subject before?
Pastor Brent McQuay (25:54):
How much time have we got? 15
minutes. Okay. So the rapid fire version
of that is. It's a very complex
situation. It's not an easy answer. And
people who struggle with their faith because
of that passage, there's a lot of
people that do. And I get it.
I understand. If we had an hour,
we could maybe sit down and unpack
it a little bit better. But essentially
(26:16):
what happens, the reason why I was
shaking my head saying no is like,
for Saul's. For our context, 21st century,
we'd be like, well, that's just messed
up. In Saul's day, that was normal
practice. Like, it was, if you have
an enemy, you wipe them all out.
Because when you leave a generation alive,
what happens a generation later?
Ti'heasha Beasley (26:34):
Yeah.
Pastor Brent McQuay (26:35):
Like, and we actually see this happen
with. With several of God's enemies in.
In that time is when they did
not wipe out an enemy. You see
the people of Israel fighting against them.
For there's some groups for a thousand
years, they're fighting the same enemy because
they didn't do what God told them
to do. So for the Amalekites. Amalekites,
right. I always mix up Ammonites, Amalekites,
(26:57):
Jebusites. There's so many Ites and Canaanites.
Ti'heasha Beasley (27:00):
Right. More correct than what I'm gonna
guess.
Pastor Sol McQuay (27:02):
Yeah.
Pastor Brent McQuay (27:02):
So Amalekites, and in this situation, if
you do a little bit of deeper
dive into scripture, they are the descendants
of Esau. So they're actually, I guess,
technically would be cousins to the Jewish
people. So you've got Jacob and Esau.
Right. You Go all the way back.
All the way back. So if you
trace those family lines, Jacob becomes Israel.
(27:22):
That's the nation. Esau's descendants become the
Amalekites. When the people of Israel are
freed from slavery in Egypt, are on
their journey to the promised land, the
first two groups of people that confront
them are basically Moses in laws and
the cousins, the Amalekites. The in laws
(27:44):
recognize God's blessing on Moses people. And
so they partner with them and say,
hey, we'll support you in whatever you
need, because if you're blessed, we'll be
blessed. The Amalekites take a different approach.
They're actually the first group of people
to try and attack Israel on their
march through the land. Israel never once
(28:05):
initiates aggression against the Amalekites. But I
think it's like four or five different
places in Scripture we see the Amalekites
try and destroy Israel. So they're, they're
on an active pursuit to wipe Israel
off of the map before they even
have a chance to really become a
nation. So in that first attack, basically
God makes this vow, this promise. He
says, I will wipe them out. Like,
(28:26):
I will bring justice. And then he
holds his justice back for several generations.
But we see, it's like, it's like
200 year, 400 year period. I forget
the numbers there. From the time, I
think it's 400 years, from the time
they leave Egypt to the time Saul
is anointed king, it's like a 400
year period. And we see time and
time again, generation after generation, the Amalekites
(28:48):
are attacking Israel. And so finally with
King Saul, God's like, the time has
now come where we need to put
an end to this. Because Saul's rebellion
in disobedience, in doing what he's supposed
to do, the Jewish people continue this
fight against the amalekites for another 600
years.
Ti'heasha Beasley (29:07):
Wow.
Pastor Brent McQuay (29:07):
So, like, the number of deaths and
all of that that happened because of
this act of disobedience is astronomical. So
that's the historical side of things. The
moral side of things is if we
look at death is not an end,
but a transition. And we have other
scriptures supporting this idea that babies go
(29:30):
to heaven when they die. Like, it
becomes less of a, whoa, that's really
messed up. And now it's almost like
a rescue for some of these children.
And I know that even that statement,
some people are gonna be like, that
feels dirty, that feels wrong. And I
get that. I understand this is a
complex, hard, hard issue. But yeah, it's
(29:50):
one of those where we could have
a lot of conversation about. There's also
a historical perspective about Near Eastern military
language conquest language. Like. Like right now
I'm really hoping that this year the
Bears destroy the Packers. I just want
the Bears to just murder the Packers.
Ti'heasha Beasley (30:06):
Okay.
Pastor Brent McQuay (30:07):
Does that mean I want them to
actually be killed? No, it's like there's
a figurative language to this. And so
Near Eastern war language was the same
way. We see that in history, from
the Egyptians to others in that same
area and even other language of Israel
where they said we did wipe this
group of people completely off the map.
(30:27):
And then like one chapter later, it's.
It's talking about like some of the
descendants from the people they completely wiped
off the map. And it's like, oh,
wait, that. So that doesn't actually mean
what it looks like it means. And
so some theologians will use that language
to say, well, God was never really
instructing complete genocide. It was. It was
just the way that they would communicate
war in that time. I don't know.
(30:47):
Yeah, yeah, that was my three minute
response.
Ti'heasha Beasley (30:51):
I mean, that was.
Pastor Brent McQuay (30:51):
I feel more 60 minute conversation.
Pastor Sol McQuay (30:54):
Yeah, it's just. It's just hard, you
know? It is. It is hard. It
is. It is a hard thing. But.
But even in this, like, the fact
that he chose to do what he
wanted to do. And I think that
for me, something that was just so
jarring this, this time around when I
was actually studying is the fact that
it says that they only left what
(31:16):
was a poor quality or that they
were just like.
Pastor Brent McQuay (31:19):
They only destroyed what was poor quality.
Pastor Sol McQuay (31:21):
Destroyed what it was poor quality. Yeah,
like. Like, I don't. We don't care
about this. So. Yeah, I can go.
Ti'heasha Beasley (31:25):
Yeah.
Pastor Sol McQuay (31:26):
Like what is completely. Yes. Complete disregard
for God's instructions.
Ti'heasha Beasley (31:31):
Yeah, yeah.
Pastor Brent McQuay (31:32):
And he claims it's going to be
for a sacrifice to. To God, but
that he doesn't say that in the
chapter, the verses leading up to it.
It's only when he's confronted where he's
like, oh, it was an offering. It's
like, really? Really, bro? Was that really
what you were doing? I don't think
so.
Ti'heasha Beasley (31:49):
Offering to his himself.
Pastor Sol McQuay (31:51):
Right, exactly.
Pastor Brent McQuay (31:52):
It was another monument to himself.
Ti'heasha Beasley (31:54):
Yeah. Oh, my gosh.
Pastor Brent McQuay (31:55):
Yeah. That whole. Yeah, there's a lot.
Pastor Sol McQuay (31:58):
The whole thing.
Ti'heasha Beasley (31:59):
The whole thing. You're right. It's tragic.
Pastor Sol McQuay (32:02):
And we didn't even keep on going
like we are a chap. Like we
ended up chapter 15. Saul's life goes
all the way to chapter 31.
Pastor Brent McQuay (32:10):
And it doesn't get any better.
Pastor Sol McQuay (32:11):
It doesn't get any better. That is
him just crazy trying to kill David.
Yeah.
Pastor Brent McQuay (32:19):
But from, from chapter 16 to chapter
31, he's no longer hearing from God.
He's no longer receiving instruction, man.
Ti'heasha Beasley (32:25):
And that was such a good point.
Point that you brought up in your
message yesterday. Like, you know, in that
day, it was because Samuel was like
the voice that God was using to
speak to Saul. And it was like,
you're not going to have this communication
anymore.
Pastor Sol McQuay (32:41):
Yeah.
Ti'heasha Beasley (32:42):
I couldn't even imagine not hearing from
God anymore.
Pastor Sol McQuay (32:47):
Yeah.
Ti'heasha Beasley (32:48):
In any type of state or position.
But, man, it's a real thing of
how you can. Okay, so let's unpack
this. Can you lose. I don't want
to say salvation, but can you lose
connection with God if you. There's a
scripture that talks, talks about God giving
you over to a reprobated mind. Is
that something that can happen in a
(33:09):
belief in someone's life? I don't know.
Can we call them believers if God
has given them over at some point?
Pastor Sol McQuay (33:14):
But I. I think that a lot
of people. And I hear. And I
have this, I have heard this many,
many, many, many times. You know, people
coming and saying, I want a new
war from God. I want God to
speak to me. I want a new
word from God. And everybody wants a
new revelation and a new word and
a new thing. But they are saying,
you know, like. But I feel like
God is silent. Have you done the
(33:35):
last thing that he told you to
do? You know, because. Because you want
him to speak to you, but he
gives you instructions and you don't do
it. So at some point it's like,
what is the point of me speaking
to you if you're not going to
listen?
Ti'heasha Beasley (33:49):
Yeah.
Pastor Sol McQuay (33:50):
Just to say that you hear my
voice.
Ti'heasha Beasley (33:52):
Thanks.
Pastor Sol McQuay (33:53):
You know what I'm saying? So I
think that a lot of people are
going around wanting a new revelation when
God already spoke. You just need to
obey.
Ti'heasha Beasley (34:00):
Yeah, that's good.
Pastor Sol McQuay (34:02):
So instead of just keep looking for,
like, when is God gonna tell me
new things? Well, do keep doing the
old things.
Pastor Brent McQuay (34:10):
And man, there's a tried and true
method. You want to hear from God,
Open up your Bible.
Pastor Sol McQuay (34:14):
Yes.
Pastor Brent McQuay (34:14):
Every time you read it, he's speaking.
Pastor Sol McQuay (34:16):
Yes.
Pastor Brent McQuay (34:17):
There you go. Boom.
Pastor Sol McQuay (34:18):
Yes.
Ti'heasha Beasley (34:19):
So technically, he won't ever stop speaking
to you if you read your Bible.
Pastor Sol McQuay (34:23):
I mean, if you seek him.
Ti'heasha Beasley (34:25):
Yeah.
Pastor Sol McQuay (34:25):
He will speak to us.
Pastor Brent McQuay (34:27):
Yeah. But as far as, like, that
whole closed off, like, I think that
that's a legit thing. I mean, we
read about Pharaoh it's like, pharaoh, harden
his heart. Pharaoh, harden his heart. Pharaoh,
harden his heart. Hardened his heart. It's
like five or six times. And then
the next time we read it, it's,
God hardened Pharaoh's heart. Like, it's like,
yeah. At some point, God was like,
okay, I gave you opportunity. I gave
you chances, and now we're done.
Ti'heasha Beasley (34:50):
Yeah.
Pastor Brent McQuay (34:50):
And so, like, I. I think that
that could be a very real thing.
It's not something that sounds pretty or
something that we want to talk about.
And I think that the reality is
if. Even. Even in that if Pharaoh
had repented, I think that God's judgment
would have. Would have been a beast,
like, in that moment. And so, like
today, like, even if you feel like
(35:11):
you God has stopped speaking to you
or has rejected you in some way,
like, grace is the fact that we
can always repent. It's just. I think
that for somebody that has reached that
level, they would never come to the
place of, I can repent. And I
think that's what makes it look different.
Ti'heasha Beasley (35:29):
Yeah. It's definitely a compare contrast situation
between David and Saul and that Huge.
Huge.
Pastor Brent McQuay (35:40):
Because they both mess up.
Ti'heasha Beasley (35:41):
They do.
Pastor Brent McQuay (35:41):
But their reactions to messing up are
so completely different.
Ti'heasha Beasley (35:45):
Yeah.
Pastor Brent McQuay (35:45):
I mean, David immediately just says, I've
sinned against the Lord.
Ti'heasha Beasley (35:50):
Yeah.
Pastor Brent McQuay (35:50):
Whereas even when Saul finally admits, I
have sinned, it's still. It's wrapped in
excuses and denials and justifications. And even
after that, yet, like, yes, I. I've
sinned, but I need the people to
think that I'm okay. Right. Like, between
you and me, I sinned. But for
(36:11):
my face to the people come back
and, you know, honor me by. By
making these sacrifices of the things that
I kept alive. And it's like, no,
that. That reaction and David's reaction, totally
different.
Pastor Sol McQuay (36:24):
Yeah. And I think that it is
just the fact that David's heart was
truly broken for what he had done.
Ti'heasha Beasley (36:30):
Yeah.
Pastor Sol McQuay (36:31):
And I think that for Saul, his
morale was broken. Like, he's like. Like
his. His ego was wounded, but not
his heart.
Ti'heasha Beasley (36:41):
Yeah. And I liked. The biggest thing
that I like to compare is that
David, he went back when he was
chosen to be king. He went back
and served. As soon as Saul was
chosen, he went into full it's about
me mode. And, you know, I think
that's a clear distinction of, like, man.
That's a red flag right there. If
(37:02):
you're chosen for something and you say,
oh, how can I make this whole
thing about me?
Pastor Sol McQuay (37:07):
Yeah.
Ti'heasha Beasley (37:07):
That's. You need to just. Community chime
in. You know what I mean?
Pastor Brent McQuay (37:13):
Spoilers for next week. So, like, if
your calling gives you pride and arrogance
of, like, look at me, there's something
beautiful next week. We're talking about Esther.
And there's something amazing in Esther's story
that sometimes we just gloss over because
we love the part where it says,
for such a time as this, right?
Like, we grab a hold of that.
Ti'heasha Beasley (37:30):
I mean, it's T shirts everywhere.
Pastor Brent McQuay (37:31):
But what Mordecai says right before that
is, salvation will come from somewhere else.
Like, Esther, if you don't do it.
Pastor Sol McQuay (37:41):
Somebody else, you don't do it.
Pastor Brent McQuay (37:43):
God's still gonna make this thing happen.
It's not you that's so special. It's
God, and he's chosen you for this
moment. But don't mess it up. Like,
don't. Don't mix this up. If you
say no, God's gonna say, fine, I'll
use somebody else.
Pastor Sol McQuay (38:01):
But he's gonna save his people.
Pastor Brent McQuay (38:02):
God is still gonna save his people.
God is still gonna accomplish what he
wants to accomplish on this Earth, whether
you're a part of or not. So
when we're called if that gives us
this arrogance of, like, look how.
Ti'heasha Beasley (38:11):
Special I am, bro, you will be
rejected.
Pastor Sol McQuay (38:15):
You will miss it because. Yeah, no,
you will miss it 100% because we.
And that's what I was saying earlier.
It should give us this sense of
honor that we get to be a
part of it. Like, if you don't.
If you don't choose to be a
part of it, God's still gonna do
it, but you're the one that is
missing out, you know? But his. His.
(38:37):
His will for this Earth will be
accomplished. What he wants to do will
be accomplished. Do you want to be
a part of it, or you just
want to watch it?
Ti'heasha Beasley (38:47):
Okay, this is too much. This episode
is. I'm completely on fire, and we
are completely out of time. But this
was such a great episode. Okay, quick
takeaways. Quick takeaway as we land this
plane.
Pastor Sol McQuay (39:00):
Is that you have a call. You
have been called to know God. You
have been called to walk closely with
God and to go and make disciples.
That's the call that we all share.
How it looks like it's different. So
you have to do those things in
whatever place you are. So just remember
that the call of God on your
(39:21):
life, first and foremost, is to know
him, is to be close to him.
And then from that, everything else will
stem out. So if you are not
having constant communication with God, everything else
will fall apart at some point. So
your Biggest call is the call to
Jesus. So follow Jesus. Follow. Follow Jesus.
Love Jesus. Get to know Jesus, you
know, because from there, everything else will
(39:43):
take place.
Ti'heasha Beasley (39:44):
Yep. That's good.
Pastor Brent McQuay (39:45):
I love it. I would say when
you read Saul's story, read it as
a mirror for your own life to
reflect. Like, where am I matching Saul?
I loved your question. You know, does
my level of obedience look a lot
like Saul's level of obedience?
Pastor Sol McQuay (40:01):
Meaning not at all.
Pastor Brent McQuay (40:03):
Exactly. So. So, yeah. So when you
read Saul's story, it's not a window
into. Look at how messed up this
guy was.
Pastor Sol McQuay (40:09):
Is.
Pastor Brent McQuay (40:10):
Yeah, it's. Am I as messed up
as this guy is?
Ti'heasha Beasley (40:13):
That's good. These are all good. I
will say mine is one of the
quotes you put in your sermon, and
I loved it so much. Your calling
will get you in the room, but
your character will keep you there. And
so it's really not an extra point.
I think it kind of closes in
on what you guys both said. And
so I will just encourage you, man,
(40:35):
go watch that sermon. It is live
right now on YouTube @we are Disciples
Church. And you're probably there because this
is where the sermon is. So just
scroll on down and watch that episode.
Thank you guys for your feedback. We've
been getting more comments. I love that.
And by the way, people, like, when
I say, let's land this plane, and
someone said in the comments, put it
(40:57):
on a T shirt. So let's.
Pastor Sol McQuay (40:58):
Let's land this plane.
Ti'heasha Beasley (40:59):
Can we do it?
Pastor Sol McQuay (41:01):
Let's get off the Runway.
Pastor Brent McQuay (41:04):
Would it be weird to wear that
T shirt on, like, an airplane?
Pastor Sol McQuay (41:07):
Like, let's land this plane.
Ti'heasha Beasley (41:09):
It would be weird.
Pastor Brent McQuay (41:10):
Like, people would be like, I agree.
Ti'heasha Beasley (41:11):
I agree.
Pastor Sol McQuay (41:13):
Now I feel like we need all
of the airport references. Let's take off.
Ti'heasha Beasley (41:16):
Let's take off.
Pastor Brent McQuay (41:18):
Please don't. Don't encourage her.
Pastor Sol McQuay (41:20):
Put your mask before you put somebody
else's mask on.
Ti'heasha Beasley (41:24):
You know, spiritually love it. This is
why I love. I love spiritually free
peanuts.
Pastor Brent McQuay (41:31):
What. What else works here?
Ti'heasha Beasley (41:33):
Anyway, we're having so much fun here,
but we pray that God is with
you this week. He is with you,
and we pray that you just enjoy
this message, share it with your friends,
and, yeah, until next time, we love
you.
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The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show
The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show. Clay Travis and Buck Sexton tackle the biggest stories in news, politics and current events with intelligence and humor. From the border crisis, to the madness of cancel culture and far-left missteps, Clay and Buck guide listeners through the latest headlines and hot topics with fun and entertaining conversations and opinions.