For Such a Time as This: Esther’s Story, Obedience & God’s Hidden Hand

Episode Transcript
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Pastor Brent McQuay (00:00):
Foreign. And welcome to another episode of
Between Sermons. I'm Brent, the host, and
I get to be the lead pastor
at Disciples Church. And we are going
to have a great conversation today, turning

(00:22):
the, the monologue from the stage on
Sunday into a real dialogue. We. We
get to kind of dig a little
bit deeper into Sunday's message and kind
of turn this into a little bit
of a small group. And so thanks
for hanging out with us. But in
order to have a conversation, I can't
just be talking out of camera. I
got to be talking to people. And
so I've got two amazing people with
me. But first off, the awesome co

(00:42):
host, Taisha Beasley.

Ti'heasha Beasley (00:44):
Yay. Why am I always clapping?

I don't know. But you're here every
week and stuck with me. Stuck for
like an hour.

I love to talk. You are so
self aware where stuck is a great
word.

Stuck is the word.

No, no. I'm sorry, Chris, we're gonna
bring you, we're gonna bring you in,
but before I introduce you, I just
want to say you inspire me to
be more casual.

To buy more hoodies.

Yeah, that too. But I like how
you said, I was actually telling pretty
this last week how you say you
get to be the pastor of Disciples
Church. And that may seem like a
small word word to you, like, oh,
but it really is like, it puts
things.

It's the truth of the state of
situation.

It's such a liberal statement.

See, I don't even view that as
humble. I just view that as like.

No, it's like an honor. Like, I
get to serve you guys.

I get to. And if there's ever
a time when I don't get to
do that, that would suck. I'd be
very sad.

How do you turn a compliment into.

A. I don't know. It's a skill.
It's a gift.

Kris Lacy (01:45):
It's a gift.

Okay, let's move along. I get to
be on this podcast with my sister
Chris Lacey today, who is a, well,
wellness coach in her field. And I,
I must say, when we were thinking
about the guests to have on this
show as we dive into Esther with
this called series, definitely we thought of

(02:07):
you for this time. So welcome to
the show.

Kris Lacy (02:09):
Thank you. Thank you for having me.
And when you said you thought of
me, I'm like, really? Tell me more.

It was intentional. Yeah, it was intentional.
But thank you for joining us and
I know it's going to be a
great conversation.

This will be fun because I get
to talk to your husband like every
week for like an hour. So this
will be different.

Kris Lacy (02:29):
I know. And I get to talk
to your wife.

Yeah, actually, I think. I think I'm
supposed to talk to James tonight. And
you're supposed to be talking to Sol
tonight. Look at that timing.

Okay.

Discipleship groups. Get in one.

Get in one. Because in my mind,
I'm like, wait, what's happening? Like, did
I miss something? No, I'm just nosy.
But no, this is gonna be a
great show because I really.

Kris Lacy (02:54):
Man.

The story of Esther. First of all,
let's. Let's pause with the Call series
in general. Like, have you ever. I
mean, not. Have you ever. Have you
been able to see or listen to
some of the sermons? How has it
been? Rocking.

Kris Lacy (03:06):
It's been good so far. I just
really enjoyed Saul. And I was telling
Sol about it because I just remember
being that person who, like, I felt
like I heard from God regularly, and
I would be like, yeah, but no,
I'mma do it. I'mma do it this
way. And so it. It was just
nice. And I appreciated the level of

(03:28):
accountability that came with that conversation because
so many of us don't connect to
Saul. They're like, you know, I'm not.
But for everybody to kind of see
themselves, you know, in that place, like,
it really resonated with me a lot.
And I was just. I was also
grateful because I'm like, I'm not like
Saul anymore. So this is really good.

That's good.

Kris Lacy (03:51):
Yeah, I felt really good in a.
In a very holy way.

Yeah.

No, but it can be very encouraging
when you're like, oh, that's really bad.
Yeah, I'm not that bad.

Kris Lacy (04:03):
Everyone's bad anymore.

Not anymore. No, seriously, we were talking
about, on. I think it was with
David how his failure was like a
top tier failure. Do you have any
top tier failures? Don't share, but, like,
do you have any.

Wow, that's. You just got real personal
real fast.

Kris Lacy (04:18):
Many spirit fingers.

I feel like if we go down
the list, can we all say, like,
I think I had a top tier
failure?

Kris Lacy (04:27):
Several.

Which really, this series humbles you because
you can, like you said, reflect and
see yourself in so many of the
different. I won't say characters, but the
different people that God chose to use.
And I love Pastor Brent, how you
really want us to focus on in
this Call series, the heart behind, like,
the word call, which is to love

(04:51):
God and love his people and serve.
So I really love that perspective. And
one thing that we're going to talk
about today is the assignments that come
with that calling and so it should
be a great conversation. But if you
didn't get a chance to listen to
the sermon, Pastor Chris, who is our
founding, one of our founding pastors, did
an amazing job on speaking on Esther.

(05:13):
So since you are the only pastor
on the set, go ahead and give
us a recap on the story of
Esther before we jump into conversation.

Yeah, so Esther is. It's a very
interesting book in the Bible. So it
lands in the kind of the history
books for the people of Israel. Actually
read a stat that Esther is one
of the most read books in Jewish.
Jewish culture outside of the first five
books of the Bible. It's like, yeah,

(05:43):
it's a very important story for them.
But it's interesting because also it's the
only book that's fully written while in
Persia. So they're in exile. It's. This
story's taking place for all of the
guys listening that just love the movie
300 and King Xerxes, it's the same
king.

Wow.

So like there's like this crossover happening.
So like if you were curious. Yeah,
it's. It's most likely it's. It's describing
the same person.

Kris Lacy (06:09):
Wow.

So now when you read Esther's story
and this guy like dips his scepter,
now you're gonna be picturing the dude
from 300 with like the nose ring
thing, like looking creepy. Yeah. So that's
the guy. So Esther's story, it's interesting.
The book is one of only two
books in the Bible that does not
mention God at all. But you see

(06:32):
God working throughout the. The story kind
of. There's so many. I heard somebody
say it one time like it was
too coincidental to be coincidence. And it
kind of. That's like, it kind of
seems like that's what's. What's happening with
Esther story. But short version of it
is kind of a messed up situation.
King Xerxes kills his wife because she's

(06:52):
disobedient to him and he gets mad,
so he kills her. So he needs
a new one. And to pick a
new one, he decides to have what
some people have described as a beauty
contest which was. Yeah, maybe that's how
you could describe it. Maybe it was
a beauty pageant with sampling of the
right people way of saying what happened.

(07:14):
It's a very ugly story. Like if
you read it and realize what they're
really talking about there, it's like, oh
yeah. So like this is not like
the fairy tale princess story. Like Disney's
not making this one.

No.

And so anyways, well, the Veggie Tales
did. So you know, who knows?

Anyways, Veggie tails made the story.

Yes. There's a, there's a, there's a
Veggie Tales of Ruben shaking his head
up 100. How do you not.

I don't know.

Did you know? Am I the only
one here that watches vegetables?

So you don't watch Chosen, but you
watch veggies?

Of course. That's, that's Veggie sales is
canon. Yeah, I mean, 100.

Okay.

They're more biblically accurate anyways.

For real. Okay.

Yeah. Come on now, don't knock my
veggie tails. I need some support in
the comments on this one, please. We
need some love for the veggies.

Putting his hand up.

Yeah, Come on. I'm in the wrong
room, man. I should just leave you
in your blazers and your lack of
veggie tails. Like it just. I'm the
wrong guy for this conversation. All right,
back on track.

Kris Lacy (08:18):
It's just lame.

So, so Esther's story. Jewish woman, young
lady who gets picked as part of
this beauty pageant and ends up being
good at her job, I guess is
the way to put that. Xerxes. I
mean, how do you, how do.

Kris Lacy (08:39):
You have this background?

Uncomfortable conversation. So Xerxes is very enamored,
decides to marry her. She becomes the
new queen. And in that process we
learn about kind of a right hand
man to King Xerxes, A man named
Haman who is very much anti the
Jewish people, just hates them, mostly because

(09:05):
he hates a man named Morai who
happens to be related to Queen Esther.
And there's all this drama that happens
there. And Heyman decides, I want to
have Mordecai killed. But it's not enough
just to kill Mordecai, I need to
kill like all of his people.

Yeah.

And so there's this plot that's enacted
and Mordecai finds out about it, Esther
finds out about it, Mordecai goes to
Esther and says, you're the queen. If
any of us is going to be
able to do something about this situation,
it's going to be you, girl. And
it's the famous line that everybody knows.
It's like, what if for such a
time, right? And so it's just this,

(09:44):
it's a really powerful story. It's really
cool. Cool moment. There's some elements of
that that I love where he's like,
you know, if you don't do anything,
don't think that you're going to be
safe, just cuz you're the queen. But
like, if you choose to do nothing,
look, God redeems his people. Like, God
saves and salvation's going to come. He's
just not going to use you. But
if you want to be in on

(10:05):
this, then let's, let's do it. And
so they come up with a plan.
They execute this plan of getting Xerxes
to kind of get back on the
side of the Jewish people and realize
that, oh, I'm married to one of
them, I should probably do something to
keep them all from getting murdered. And
so end of the story is basically

(10:25):
Haman gets executed in replace of Mordecai.
Like it's some, some scholars talk about,
like the book of Esther is the
book of reversals. So it's like everything
that Mordecai plans, God reverses.

Oh, yes.

Or sorry, everything that Haman plans, God
reversed. So like Haman's planning Mordecai's execution,
Haman ends up getting executed the same
exact way that he was planning on
executing Mordecai. The Jewish people are going
to be destroyed utterly. And all their
stuff is taken and it reverses. And
now they're destroying their enemies and they're
getting all of the, the plunder and
all of this stuff. So it's like

(10:58):
God just the first five chapters, like,
setting up all this bad stuff's going
to happen. God reverses it. The next
five chapters is all the blessings and,
and God turning the, the.

Table out right there.

Come on now.

Come on.

It's a really cool book. I mean,
it's really short. It's like. I think
it's 10 chapters, maybe 11. I think
it's 10. Really short book. You can
read through it in the afternoon and.
Yeah, cool. History of the Jewish people
in exile because of their sins.

Yeah.

And yet even in their sins, when
they cry out to God, he delivers.

Yes.

Which is just awesome for us.

Kris Lacy (11:30):
Yes.

It's one of my favorite stories in
the Bible because it's a, it's a
story and you can really see God's
hand in it. And so I'm so
glad we chose to teach on that
in this series.

If you had a daughter, would you
name her Esther because you named your
son Nehemiah? And we're gonna talk about
Nehemiah next week.

And so Esther is such an old
name. I don't think so.

And Nehemiah isn't.

Kris Lacy (11:56):
No, no. It's one of those timeless
names, I think. But Esther, we can't
do Esther.

That would be too much weight, too
much heavy. Like that's your Esther.

So you were brought for such a
time as this.

Kris Lacy (12:12):
I'm okay with the weight. The name
is just not.

Yeah, so. So one reason we thought
about you when it came to this
show is for those who don't know.
I do know you personally, and I
know a little bit of your testimony,
and I know a little bit of
because of the community that we are
a part of and just doing life
together, which is very important and something

(12:35):
we really encourage here at Disciples Church.
I know that there was. There was
a season this year where you had
your. Such a time as this moment.

What a setup.

I know. So first kind of tell
us.

I want to hear more.

I know you don't help me out
at all. Like, I'm trying to build
anticipation at the crowd, and you just
point me out like, this is what
she doing. I'm just playing. I love
wouldn't be a show without.

I don't know how I can derail
a conversation just so quickly. I apologize.

No. And so first, I want you
to kind of share what really stood
out to you in the message yesterday
from the Mama Chris or Pastor Chris.
I call her Mama Chris.

Kris Lacy (13:22):
Me, too.

We love her.

Kris Lacy (13:23):
Yes.

And so, man, I called her mom.

Before you guys did.

Kris Lacy (13:28):
You know, I think you're right.

You should be off the show. No,
I'm just playing. But thanks for sharing
your mom with.

Kris Lacy (13:36):
Yes. I am grateful.

Yes.

Kris Lacy (13:39):
So first of all, shout out to
Mama Chris because she did her thing
up there on that stage yesterday, and
I was so proud, and I was
just so grateful for. For her. Yes.
Which is what stood out to me,
that I think that was the first
step is you have to give God
your yes. And for my life, doing

(14:00):
that is when everything started to change.
Like, not my partial playing the fence
lukewarm. It was like, yeah, I love
God, but, like. Like, that's enough, you
know? Like, I go to church, you
know, but when I really, really God
was, like, just calling me to him.
And when I gave God my yes,

(14:20):
like, there's been so much revelation. There's
been so much healing and so much
just transformation in my life. And I
see that in my marriage, and I
see that in my friendships, and I
see that just in everything that I'm
a part of now. But that's because
I said yes. And so that's the

(14:40):
part that really, like, really hit hit
with me yesterday. I mean, all of
it was good, but that part for
me was like, yes, yes, yes.

Are you happy to be on the
other side of your yes? And hearing
the story, like, how does that make
you feel? Like, yeah, I made the
right decision.

Kris Lacy (15:01):
Well, yeah, for sure. But also made
me aware that there's not just one
yes. You know what I'm saying? Like,
I've had to keep saying yes. And.
And let me change that. I get
to keep saying yes.

Look at that.

Kris Lacy (15:15):
And. And so it really is a
great opportunity for me when I'm faced
with something because I get to say
yes. And every time I see, like,
that I'm obedient in something.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Kris Lacy (15:30):
I mean, I can't explain. I finally
learned what the joy of the Lord
is, your strength means. And I'm like,
how is his joy my strength? Because
I'm not happy in this situation. How
does that help me? But in terms
of my strength, like, dang, every time

(15:50):
I make God happy with my obedience,
I get stronger. Because now I'm not
concerned about how people feel or if
they like it or what the outcome
is going to be. I'm concerned about
giving him my yes. And every time
I get stronger, I get more confident
and I'm more comfortable with who I
am. And nothing can. Can move me.

That's good.

Kris Lacy (16:12):
So.

Yeah.

Kris Lacy (16:13):
Yeah, yeah.

Jesus said, take up your cross daily.

Yeah.

And so, like that. That's the yes.
Like, it's every day. You're. You're. There's
a new yes every single. Every single
morning you wake up, and there's probably
going to be about a dozen other
yeses all throughout the day. Yeah. So
it's definitely not a one and done
decision. It's the life that we live.
We just keep saying yes.

Kris Lacy (16:32):
For sure. Yeah, man.

I just keep thinking about how Esther's
story, how it came to play, because,
like, we. We joked about a little
bit. She got into this position, and
it was kind of grimy, like, how
she got.

It's a dark story.

It is a dark story. So do
you feel like you can relate a
little bit? A little bit.

I don't know where that's going.

Not, not, not. Not in that way.

Kris Lacy (17:01):
Whoa.

So Esther was part of our harem.

No.

Kris Lacy (17:04):
No.

How does your story relate you?

You are not part of.

Kris Lacy (17:11):
No.

I need popcorn for this episode.

Kris Lacy (17:14):
But I mean, I'm saying it's still
rough. It was still rough.

I'm just saying. So I'll share a
little bit because I feel a connection
to the story, actually. Like Mama Chris
said, Pastor Chris said yesterday, she taught
this group first to her, the women's,
the CLC women's. And I was. I
was in that session when she taught
it, and it really. What was. She

(17:37):
was driving home in that session was
fear. And I didn't realize, but I
was. There was a decision that I
was wrestling with or just something I
knew I needed to do. And I
was so afraid to do it. And
I was just like, I'm gonna fail.
Like, I don't think I'm good enough,
you know? But when she taught that

(17:58):
message, it just. I felt like I
was like, are you listening? Like, I
know you don't feel like you're adequate
enough for this, but I'm calling you
to do it. And so it inspired.
That's how it inspired me, you know?
And so do you have that moment
before your yes? Like, how was that
journey to your yes?

Kris Lacy (18:19):
Okay, well, first of all, the hidden
hand part. Yeah. So that's what I
think. That's the part that we forget.
And so what happened? Okay, so I'm
gonna say I was baptized, like, I
think in 2013, maybe for the. For
the first time. And then I got
baptized again at a conference in 2023.

(18:41):
And I remember the weekend I went
to that conference, that was a three
day, so it started on Friday. And
I remember I was taking some notes.
They were talking about kingdom principles, and.
And I remember them saying, like, basically,
who was speaking at the time? It
says something along the lines of, like,
you can't. Whatever you were doing in
the past, it just doesn't. It doesn't
serve you where God is taking you,

(19:01):
basically. And I heard Holy Spirit say,
like, I don't drink anymore. And I
put it in my notes and I
still have it. And it says in
quotes, I don't drink anymore. And the
reason it says it also, I didn't
say that that wasn't my voice because,
you know, of course, you know the
Bible. I personally don't see it being

(19:22):
wrong if someone has a glass of
wine or something like that. I also
grew up. My parents struggle with alcoholism,
and I love them so much, but
my mom recently passed from alcoholism. And
so, like that. That moment where Holy
Spirit was like, you can't do that

(19:43):
anymore. I don't do that anymore. I
was like, okay. And I have not
had a drink since then. So I.
It. It was like. But leading up
to that moment, I'm sorry, God has
started to reveal certain things to me
that, like, were almost insane. I went
to go visit my parents with my
sisters for like, a little trip. And

(20:03):
I'm sorry. Is it okay if I
tell the story? Yeah. Okay. So we
went on a little Trip. And my
mom had hurt herself or something like
that, and. And so we decided we're
just going to go out and get
a break. Let's go have tacos. Let's
go have a drink or something and
just relax for a second and get
away. And as I went to the

(20:24):
bathroom, I came back to sit down,
and my sisters are looking at me,
like, weird, like. And I'm like, what?
Like, what just happened? And they were
like, my. My middle sister Tina was
like, do you know that mom said,
you know that she was. That she
had her tubes tied with you? And
I was like, yeah, she's always told

(20:45):
that story because my mom was sometimes
a drink, and she was just. She.
I think she. I think. I'm guessing
she had PTSD from a lot of
things that she went through in her
life. And so she would always tell
the same stories over and over again.
And so she used to always say,
I have my tools tied with Christy.
And I'm like, yeah, she said it
a million times, for sure. She was
like, so you knew that she had
her two sides of you? I'm like,

(21:06):
yes, she had me. She had postpartum
depression. She cut all her hair off.
She got her two sides. She ain't
want no more kids. And I think
Tina received it when she was telling
the story. Tina was like, no, Chris,
mom had her tubes tied and then
got pregnant with you. And I never.

(21:27):
I've heard that story a million times,
but I never received what mom was
saying as if she was saying, yeah,
I had my tooth tied when I
had Chris.

You had the timeline.

Kris Lacy (21:39):
So I used to struggle a lot
with my identity. My sister's older sister's
name, Martina and Tammy, they're both named
after singers. Tammy, Anita after Anita Baker.
Tina Marie after Tina Marie. And here
I come along, Christy, Ellen. And I'm
like, who is that? You know, like,
why is my name so different?

I have the exact same story. I
won't interrupt yours.

Kris Lacy (22:03):
I'm like, they don't even like to
sing. I love to sing and everything.
Like, this is a problem for me.
And so and so. But in that
moment, like, I struggle again so much.
My sister used to tell me I
was adopted. That's like normal older siblings
do. But I'm like, dang, I don't
fit in. And God told me in
that moment, like, I just remember looking

(22:24):
up and getting super emotional, and God
saying, even your mom couldn't keep you
from being here, man. He said, not
only did I call you, I set
you apart because I Called you by
name. And my name, Christy Ellen, stands
or translates to follower of Christ light.

(22:46):
And wow. Everything changed for me, like,
leading up to that. So that was
like in February. I went to that
conference in June. God chased me down.
And so there was just like a
lot of things leading up. And I
remember Pam Evans, she's like my spiritual
mom. Before I went to see my
mom, she was like, the Lord is
about to reveal something to you when

(23:07):
you go see your parents. And then
that happened.

And I was like, okay, so wow.

Kris Lacy (23:14):
Yeah. So, you know, there was just
so many things that in terms of
my identity, the enemy does so much
to try to make us think. Think
that we are not qualified. But everybody
has a moment. If they were here,
they would choose, like, just to. If,
like, if people were like, I don't
know who I am, I called or
what I started asking God for real,

(23:35):
like, I feel something, but what is
it? Cuz I feel like I don't
feel important. So he, He. He showed
me, like, I assigned you to be
here. So I think everybody is here.
You're here for a reason. If you
have breath, you have life, you have
purpose. So yeah. Yeah, that was kind
of my moment.

That was beautiful. Thanks for sharing. What.
What I. You are for real. For
such a time as this story, like,
you weren't even supposed to be here.
Technically, your mom was like, I'm not
having no more kids. And then here
you come.

Kris Lacy (24:07):
There it. I'm be completely honest. After
we had that conversation, there was some
confusion. I'm like, I don't even know
if that's true. And I really never
got to verify that with my mama
after that.

Does mama go grant verification?

Kris Lacy (24:19):
Like, I never really got to have
that conversation. Like, you said this a
million times, but my sister said. And
I don't know if she just. So
I don't have 100% facts. True. But
for that moment, God used that moment
to speak to me. And so I
just received what he said. And that's
the part that matters. I just received
what he said.

Well, what's your story, Pastor Brent? You
say you can relate.

Kris Lacy (24:37):
Oh, yeah.

Mine's not nearly as fun. It's just
funny for me. So my brother's name
is Chad Andrew, and my mother is
Chris Ann. So Chad Andrew, Chris Ann.
My sister is Jennifer Lynette. And my
father is Jerry Lynn. Jennifer Lynette, Jerry
Lynn, Chad Andrew Chris and Brenton James.

Kris Lacy (25:03):
Oh, James is my favorite book of
the Bible you married and my husband.
So there you go.

I love that you Led with the
Bible, though. You're like, I love that
name. It's in the Bible. Oh, and
I married one.

Kris Lacy (25:13):
Yeah. Oh, don't say it like that.
He's my favorite.

100% James is in the Bible. James
is a beast. Yeah, that's probably why
you're a little spicy sometimes too fast.
It might be.

It might be a trade, because James
can get a little spicy, too.

He can get a little spicy.

Kris Lacy (25:29):
Oh, yeah. My James.

Okay.

Kris Lacy (25:31):
He's spicy.

Okay.

Kris Lacy (25:33):
100%.

Law enforcement does that.

Kris Lacy (25:35):
He's got to be assertive, man.

So I think I have a question,
Pastor Brent. Is it appropriate for us
to really believe that God has us
in different positions for a reason, for
a moment, for a time?

Yeah, absolutely. We see that repeated all
throughout scripture in different ways. And so,
yeah, I think it absolutely is. Now,
does that mean that all of us
are going to be made queen or
made king or be the president or,
you know. No, I think sometimes we
grandiose. We make it more grandiose, maybe
in our heads, but, like, you could

(26:17):
be the janitor at the school, and
it could be your. For such a
time as this moment, like, you could
be sweeping the classrooms, doing your thing,
and one day there's a teacher that's
having a breakdown, and you're there in
the moment so that you can be
light and life to them. So, like,
I think that, yes, we are where
we are for reasons. It becomes a

(26:40):
more complicated question because, you know, sometimes
you're where you are because you made
bad decisions, and there's things called consequences.
And so, because I've had some people
be like, well, you know, I know
I'm going through bankruptcy because God's got
me here for a reason. It's like,
no, you didn't manage your money well.
Can God use it? Sure. Yes, absolutely.
However, if you were like, hey, God,

(27:01):
was it your plan to make me
bankrupt? Maybe not. Yeah, so, yeah, so
there's nuance to these things. But, yeah,
I think that we can absolutely say,
man, this. This is the reason why
I'm here. And, like, from. From my
own story, like, my wife and I,
we've. We've experienced that in a lot
of different places where, like, we ended
up in situations where we're like, I
don't know why we're here, or we

(27:21):
ended up in a situation where it
was like, the leadership over us or
the people around us. It was like,
man, this is. We're getting beat up.
Like, why. Why are we even here?
And then all of a sudden, it's
like, oh, this is why.

Wow.

And so it's been cool to be
able to see, like, some of the
more difficult moments in our story.

Yeah.

How we can look back on it
and be like, oh, it makes sense.
That's the beauty of hindsight.

Yeah.

It kind of sucks when you're in
it, though, because you don't always, like.
Like, we can read Esther's story, and
in chapter two, we're not like, oh,
my God, what's gonna happen? Like, we're
not, like, panicking or freaking out, because
you can just flip a few pages
and be like, oh, it works out
in the end.

Yeah.

But when Esther's living it, it's real
different.

Kris Lacy (28:01):
Yeah. So I'm sorry, but there's a
lot of. There's a lot of lessons,
I think, in Esther.

Let's talk about it.

Kris Lacy (28:09):
Yeah. Because so I appreciated her willingness.
Like, okay, I'll do it. You know,
if I have to die, if I
have to perish, I'll perish. I'm like,
if I perish.

That's a boss line.

Kris Lacy (28:22):
Yeah, that was me.

That's about. Come on, put on a
shirt.

Kris Lacy (28:25):
So good.

If I perish, I perish.

Kris Lacy (28:27):
I perish. I don't know if I
want to wear it, but it's here.
But no, you know what? It's so
crazy because reading it again, I received
a lot from it as a parent,
but because of Mordecai. And I thought
about how it took for her to

(28:48):
really trust his leadership because he took
her in when she was so young,
and it took for her to really,
really trust what he had to say
to. To show up. And so it
made me think about legacy. And it
made me think about how, as a
parent, you know, it's so important for
me to create a space where my

(29:09):
kids feel safe enough to do something,
even though they're afraid or that they
would trust me and trust my advisement
enough that they will be willing to
take action. And because of her willingness,
because of his leadership first and her
willingness, her. Yes. Generations or lives were
saying everything turned around for them. And

(29:29):
what was also beautiful is at the
end, Mordecai was basically in leadership, like,
next to the king, you know? And
so it just really had me think
a lot about legacy and showing up,
which is why I gave God my
yes, too. It's like, this is so
much bigger than me. And I thought
about how in real time, she got

(29:51):
to see generations before her be blessed
and those after. And so it was
just really, really.

No, that's A good point to point
out.

Kris Lacy (30:00):
Yeah.

That she had someone whom she trusted,
that was leading her, that even pushed
her, you know what I mean? And
so that's a good.

Kris Lacy (30:10):
And kept her accountable. Not just like,
encouraged her to do it, but also
was like. But also friend. God gonna
have his way whether you like it
or not. Whether you like it or
not, I.

Need you to know you have someone
in your. Your life like that, like
a, A leader or.

Kris Lacy (30:25):
Yeah. As Ms. Evans, you know, I
wouldn't be. And I love and. And
this is just like in my faith,
you know, just the woman of God
that I am. The way she, like,
she would be like, chris, I keep
coming back to the same point with
you, and I be like, okay, you

(30:47):
haven't figured this one out yet. And
she cracked me up. But I love
that woman just for her mentoring me
and guiding me on, you know, what
it means to be a godly wife
and mom. And she actually helped me.
I've been, y', all, I've been a
stay at home mom for seven and
a half years. And today is the
first day in seven and a half

(31:07):
years where I've had the day to
myself because all three of my kids
are in school full time.

That's a praise. Yes.

Kris Lacy (31:14):
I have people, so. But she would
always tell me, chris, like, the time
is gonna go by, like, that's gonna
go by so fast. Like, God has
allowed you to be a stay at
home mom. And I'm like, this was
not in my plans for me. Are
you sure? Do you know who I
am or what I'm capable of? She
like, girl, sit down somewhere.

You just said something.

Kris Lacy (31:36):
Oh, go, please.

No, I was gonna say you just
said something. Something about it reminded me
of what Pastor Chris talked about in
her message. With timing.

Kris Lacy (31:46):
Yes.

And I think it relates even to
your story. Now I'm going to share
a little bit because, you know, I
remember a couple months ago, maybe right
before summer. Oh, my gosh. And I'm
not going to get emotional, but we
had a conversation and you was just
like, I've been missing it. You actually

(32:08):
caught me with this whole scripture that
you found in Deuteronomy. And you was
like, I've been missing it. I've been
trying to hold on to things that
God has been telling me to release
for this time for my family. And
I saw you submit fully to God
and to the calling, which wasn't like

(32:30):
this grand, like, oh, I'm going to
be this. It was like, submit to
the calling of serving your family, your
Husband and your children and letting go
of things you really wanted. Man, that,
that was. That is the first such
a time as this moment.

Kris Lacy (32:45):
Yeah. Thank you for bringing that up.
Yeah, you just got me teary eyed.
So let me pull it all back
before it all comes out. Okay. But
yeah, so I remember God like telling
me because I felt, I was just
feeling a lot of conflict because I
do know that God has called me
out to speak and do all these
other things and I do have my

(33:05):
business and stuff. But I'm like, it
kept being this friction where my kids,
I'm home every day and they're still
like not getting enough. And I'm like,
how much more? And even my husband,
he's like, can, you know, can we
have some time together? And I'm like,
if I'm not at yalls disposal every
single day, all the time, I don't
get a day off. So. What are

(33:26):
you talking about? I'm so confused. So
I went to the Lord and so
I'm like, what is it really like
what is happening? And I remember I
had to, I even, you know, I
was serving, I've been a commissioner in
my village for like seven years. Seven,
seven and a half years. I was
chair of my commission and I was

(33:46):
serving in D.C. women as one of
the table leads. And then I was
serving as vice president of the Chicago
chapter of the Next Level Speakers Academy.
And I love all of these roles,
like they were so important to me.
All had a special place in my
heart. And I remember God was like,
you know, all of those things were
good, but they weren't things that I

(34:09):
told you to do. Like you didn't
ask me. That's good if that's where
I wanted you to be. And they
all aligned. I'm like, I'm very much
a community advocate. Okay, this is good.
Like, you know, I love speaking, I
love serving entrepreneurs, I love serving my
church. Like this is good. And he
was just like. And I asked God
and he. And he said, I graced

(34:29):
you to be his wife. I graced
you to be their mom. But the
grace that I've given you, you extended
to all these places that I didn't
call you.

Yeah.

Kris Lacy (34:41):
And I'm like, that can be a.

Tough pill to swallow.

Kris Lacy (34:43):
I'm like, sir, how do I just
walk away from all of these things
and places? And I remember I heard,
dang Holy Spirit said, it was just
like, I'll give it back to you
or whatever. So I looked up scriptures
because I'm like, what scripture was It.
That. That said that talks about this.
And he specifically gave me. Oh, let

(35:05):
me bring it up, y'. All. Can
I bring it up?

Sure.

Kris Lacy (35:08):
It was Deuteronomy 30 and 3.

She was in the Old Testament and.

Kris Lacy (35:13):
I'm like, I love the Old Testament.
It was.

Why she's looking up this beautiful. It's
like a lot of stories. Yeah.

History. It's the. It's the introduction of
the character and nature of God. What
he loves, what he hates, what he
wants for us. Like. Yeah.

Kris Lacy (35:29):
Yes.

You need your own show, Pastor.

Kris Lacy (35:32):
No, first of all, I do love
when you do your. Answer the questions
and you do that stuff. Like, it's
so good. Yeah, no, yeah, for sure.
It's so good.

I've got my. My wedding ring is
Joshua 1:9. Be strong and courageous for
the Lord your God will be with
you wherever you go.

Kris Lacy (35:45):
Oh, come on.

Bible verses, Old Testament. Be slapping, be
slapping.

Kris Lacy (35:52):
I like that. Okay, okay, okay. So
that's what it. So I remember Holy
Spirit, restoration. That's what he's at. Restore.
That's what I'm like. Okay. So then
I looked up scriptures on restoration. And
then he gave me Deuteronomy 30 and
3. And it says, then the Lord
your God will restore your fortunes. He
will have mercy on you and gather
you back from all the nations where
you were scattered. And I'm like, well,

(36:14):
that was very clear because I've been
scattered all over the place. And. And
so he promised restoration. But then I
heard Holy Spirit say, read the whole
thing. And long story short, the whole
thing. Because there was one my. The
Next level Speakers Academy. I love this
group, you know, and I. I enjoy
leading and had made. Did the. They

(36:35):
were coming here to do our meetings.
Like, I just love it, right? I'm
like, well, that's the newest thing. Thing.
I need to at least give them
a year professionally. That only makes sense.
And I was kind of holding on
to that one. And so I was
like. But then I read the whole
thing and there was a part and
it just really talks about if you
will give it all to me.

Yeah.

Kris Lacy (36:57):
I will not just restore you, but
I will restore your children. And I.
And it just spoke like I got
chills. And I immediately got on my
knees in my living room and I
weeped and before the Lord and just
said, thank you, you can have it
all. Cuz I don't want anything that
you don't want for me. And it

(37:17):
was just so cool to just see
and. And even something changed in my
husband. I don't Know what it was,
but he was like, just the way
that you're being obedient. Like, I wasn't
going to go to the speakers conference
that year. He was just like, nah,
I'm still going to take you. Like,
everything I thought I was going to
be giving up, not only did, like,
I still get to do or the

(37:39):
favor I still have, or whatever I
thought I was losing, I have that
in so much more in my relationship
and just in the ability to be
present. And now I don't feel the
pressure to perform for anybody. Like, everything
was just gone. And I'm just like,
read Deuteronomy 30. It is a good
book. But, yeah, God said he'll give

(38:00):
it all back.

And I love that. And the reason
I kind of wanted to pick that
out was because of the obedience part,
which is what was taught in the
sermon as well. Before you can have
that moment where you can say for
such a time as this, like, what
are you submitting to God? What are
you surrendering? What are you still holding
on to that needs to be let
go of so that God can put

(38:22):
you in a place to carry out
the assignment he has for you. So
I don't know, do you have any
seasons where.

I was just going to jump in
with a spoiler for next week. So
next week we're doing Nehemiah story, and
there's a verse that stands out because
you were talking about, these are good
things. These are good things. There's a
moment in Nehemiah's story where there's some
kings that are plotting to kill him.
And so they're. They're trying to get
him out of the city so that
they can kill him. But, like, at
appearance level, these are kings inviting Nehemiah

(38:51):
to come and sit with them like
this. That's a good thing. But his
response, he writes them a letter and
he says, I can't come down. I'm
doing a great work.

Kris Lacy (39:01):
Wow.

And. And it's just this. This comparison
of when God has something great for
you to be doing good. Don't get
distracted by the good things.

You'Ll be giving us. At least one.

She said it.

I need you to run that back.

Yeah, that's so good. So, yeah, so
that. That's good. What was your question?

No, that was so distracting. I was
just saying, like, you know, we heard
a lot about her for such a
time as this moment. I know you
stepping into the role as, like a
leave pastor two years, two or three
years ago.

Yeah, something like that.

Was it a for Was that your
first such a time as this moment?

Yes and no. Like, I. I think
everything is. It's always for such a
time as this. Like. Like our first
position as youth pastors. Like, I still,
like, I can see what God was
doing in those three years. And then
we went out to South Bend, Indiana,
to. To work for a campus there.
And like. Like, there's so many things
that we're like, oh, man, if we
didn't have that moment. But, like, it.

(39:59):
For me, like, my whole life just
feels like layers.

Yeah.

And it's. It's like I. You could.
You could. If you pulled any one
of those layers out and it didn't
happen, then Brent isn't the person that
he is today. I don't know why
I'm talking about myself in the third
person.

It works for you.

But, yeah, so it's like, so the
good, the bad, the ugly, like, all
of it. Like, it. It forms who
I am, and it equips me for
what I'm doing today. And so, like,
the. The pasture that I am right
now, if I don't have the time
serving as the. The manager of a
thrift store and food pantry in Ly.
Like, if I don't have that experience
of working with the homeless community in

(40:40):
that town, like, if I don't have
that. That experience, I don't have the
compassion that I have now. If. If
I didn't have some of the leaders,
that man took advantage and just did
stuff that wasn't appropriate and wasn't right.
And. But if I didn't have that
moment, then when. When people are coming
to our church, talking about church hurt,
I'd be like, I have no idea
what you're talking about. You know, I've.
I've said on the podcast, before growing

(41:00):
up, I. There was three men that
I called pastor. Two of the three
had moral failures. Like, but if I
don't experience that, then the way I
live my life today is going to
be different, and I'm not going to
have this great warning built in of,
like, hey, pastors, like. Like, you need
to walk straight, because when you don't,
here's what happens.

Yeah.

And so, like, yeah, there's all of
those. You could call them, you know,
for such a time as this.

Yeah.

Kris Lacy (41:24):
I love that.

Just kind of builds.

Kris Lacy (41:25):
I think everybody should see their own
life that way. Yeah. Yeah, though. Right?
Because that's if we would take the
time to really reflect. And I don't
think enough of us do.

Yeah.

Kris Lacy (41:35):
Like, if you take the time to
really reflect on that. It's like, oh,
yeah, there are layers. And God is
so intentional. I think of, like, a.
An assembly line for cars. Yeah. Like,
how. You know, if you skip a
part on the assembly line, you might
look pretty on the outside, but you
lack an engine and the car.

So that's kind of an issue.

Kris Lacy (41:52):
You know what I'm saying? That's not
gonna work. And so if God is
going to complete his good work, the
work that he started in us, then
we have to be okay with every
stage of our process and be intentional.
Because I don't want. I'm at the
place where I. Because I did, like,
where I do know that God has
me. I've always been, like, a little.
Since I was a little girl. I'm
like, you know, larger than life. And

(42:12):
my mom, I believe it's really her
fault, because she really made me believe
I was some sort of superstar.

You're gonna fly. Yeah.

Kris Lacy (42:20):
I'm like, why Ain't nobody discovered me
yet? Like, I'm trying to figure out
what's going on. And so it's her
fault. But I really. I appreciate that
now because it had given me a
level of audacity through my life, but
at the same time, it's like I
was rushing to that.

Yeah.

Kris Lacy (42:36):
Or whatever that part was. But that's
just a part. Like, if we would
choose to be ever so present. There's
so much beauty in receiving what God
has for us in the moment, even
the hard times and now. We've all
been through so much.

Yeah.

Kris Lacy (42:50):
But if we could look at it
like this is just another layer of
the process. So then when I get
where I'm supposed to be going, he
will say, well done. I don't want
to skip nothing, you know?

That's good.

Yeah. You need to constantly be asking
yourself, what am I learning in this.
This season? Like, in this situation? Okay,
that sucked. What can I learn from
it? That was amazing.

Kris Lacy (43:09):
Yes.

What can I learn from it? Like,
the good, the bad, the ugly, like,
whatever it is, what am I learning?
Because if. If I'm not learning that
I'm wasting the opportunity, I'm wasting the
moment. And, like, there's things that you're
gonna go through in life that are
gonna suck. You're gonna go through it
regardless. You might as well get something
out of it.

Facts.

Yeah, let's. Let's be learning, growing.

Oh, that's so good.

Maturing and developing and.

Well, it's funny you're saying those things
I was going to say, what. What
are Some things we can pull away
from this lesson as application to those
watching. So I love how you said,
take that season, whatever season you're in.
Yeah. And find out what to be
learning there.

Yeah. So I. I think, like, so
Esther's story, one of the. If I
just rapid fire. You need to be
around the right people. Right. If Mordecai
isn't there, that story is very different.
Like, you need Mordecai in that story.
But she also. She has a moment
where it, like, it says, like, she
went to her ladies and was like,
hey, ladies, we need to pray and
we need to, like, she got a

(44:08):
group of people. So, like, you got
to be around the right people. You
got to go to prayer first. Like,
that was. That was her response. She's
spent a time of prayer and fasting.
You're gonna have to do hard things.
Like when you say yes to Jesus,
he's going to tell you to do
some stuff that is not easy. Right.
I mean, when she goes before the
king, it was illegal at that time
to go before the king without an

(44:28):
invitation. It was basically a law, basically,
to kind of protect his time. Right.

Yeah.

And this is a king that was
known. I mean, she was queen because
the previous queen disobeyed.

Yeah.

And so he killed her. So, like,
like, it's so disobedience is. Is a
big risk.

Right.

And so for her to even approach
the king the way that she did,
like, there's a risk to that.

Yeah.

That's why when she says, if I
perish, I perish, that wasn't just, like,
dramatization of, like, you know, she's not
like, oh, no, it's, like, literal. Like,
she could so, like, get around the
right people. Pray, do the hard things.

That's good.

Kris Lacy (45:09):
That's it. Yeah. I love it.

And I. And I have to feel
like there's a small, like, strategy Was
there, too. I don't know. Maybe you
could. I feel like strat. Like, for
her to, like, her strategy was prayer.
And then in that, God gave her
the next step, which is, you know,
we'll see.

Strategy a lot more. With Nehemiah's story,
Esther's story, the strategy is a little
bit more. You might have to read
into the text to get her strategy.

Yeah.

Because. Yeah. This is like cooking a
meal for him. Okay. Maybe you could
call that strategy, you know?

Yeah.

Kris Lacy (45:44):
As a wife.

If we want something.

Kris Lacy (45:48):
Oh, what you want for dinner? You
like pork chops? Let me feed you.
Let me make sure you're comfortable.

You know, I Would say, though, like,
the second meal, that wasn't strategy, that
was fear. I think she let's look
at a different perspective because the Bible
doesn't really tell us what her thought
process was. But we know that she
was very apprehensive to even go to
him. That instead of working up the
courage to ask the question, she asks

(46:14):
a different question. Will you come to
a dinner with me? Right. And so
then at the dinner when she's like,
I got something really important. Will you
have dinner with me? Again, like, that
didn't feel like strategy. That felt like
somebody that's like, I'm right there. I
know I need to do this.

Kris Lacy (46:33):
Kicking the can down the road.

Go ahead.

Kris Lacy (46:35):
Are you challenged? I am for me.
And like you said, like, as a
wife, we are. And God just. Women
are very intuitive and nurturing and all
of those things. And so if I'm
feeling the vibes in the room and
I'm like, nah, he ain't ready yet.

Maybe.

Kris Lacy (46:51):
Yeah. So, like, for me, yeah, I'm
thinking, like, you know, that's true.

This is where it's all speculated. My
part is speculation. The Bible doesn't tell
us.

I like our perspectives. Yeah.

Cause it makes her more. Also my
version fits with her personality.

Leading up to the moment she passed
that.

Kris Lacy (47:11):
That. That ship has sailed. She said,
if I perish, I perish. At this
point, I'm a ride or die. I
gotta handle business. So she was serious.
No, no, it was good. I love.
I really enjoyed and I'm just enjoying
called and can I. Can I just.
First of all, I love both of
you, like, seriously, deeply. I am so

(47:31):
grateful for my community and the people
that I do have in my life.
I want to say that for. And
Pastor Chris, Pastor Jerry, love them so
much. And I know probably stepping down
while they were probably like, man, this
is probably hard. They're like, okay, we
did enough. Okay, we can do this.

(47:53):
But I am so proud of you
all.

A.

Kris Lacy (47:58):
And for what? Disciples Church. It. The
whole meaning. Being there that Sunday when
you were like, we're changing the name
because this is what we believe. Like,
be one. Make one. Resonate so much
with my spirit. And I'm like, yo,
I'm. You know, 10 years ago, I'm
driving past Disciples Church because they. They.

(48:19):
That's weird. A little bit in my
mind. That's a little. That's a little
bit much. I'm not going there now.
I'm like, yes. Like, we're Disciples Church.
This is so good. So I just
want to say I'm so just honored
to be a member, to be under
your leadership. I'm so grateful for you
and Pastor Soul, Pastor Chris, Pastor Jerry,

(48:41):
and Taisha, you are a phenomenal woman
of God. And any fear that you've
ever had about not being qualified, I
hope you see with even your service
here at our church, that you are
more than. And you were called for
such a time as this.

Pastor Ren, I don't know. He might
be. He crossing his finger like you
are.

Kris Lacy (49:07):
So I love y'. All. Thank you.

Thank you.

Kris Lacy (49:10):
And we.

We love what God is doing in
your life, your husband's life, your family
life. We love to see it, and
that's what we love around here at
Disciples Church, when you. We really try
to do life together. Even how you
were talking about your mentor. She's one
of. Yeah, she is one of the
members.

She's an elder here.

She's an.

Kris Lacy (49:26):
I didn't want my boo.

I didn't want to say.

No. She's.

She's so. She's one of our husband,
and that's what I love. Like, our
churches, you can see the difference. Like,
you can see the. The wise and
the strong and our elders and then
how they're pouring into us. Younger generation,
who's who need all the guidance.

Kris Lacy (49:49):
We are the mothers. We're coming to
auntie.

We becoming an auntie right now. It's
so good to. To have that here
at this church. It's not just like,
you know, just one generation. You see
multiple. Multiple generations, and you see lots
of families, and so it's just a
good place to have community. So let's
land this plane. Because I know the
production team is like, this is going
all this touchy Philly, loving each other.

Kris Lacy (50:12):
Apologize. I'm like, one more thing too
much. Many times you say that.

So what we do when we land
the plane here is we give a
takeaway for our guest. And so from
the sermon, since you're our guest, you
want to go first with your takeaway
from the sermon. From the sermon.

Just what was your. What was your
highlight? Your big moment, your man. That's
the thing that. That hit me right
between the eyes. Hold on to that
one.

Kris Lacy (50:35):
Yep. I started crying when she talked
about just seeing God's hand. Like, what
was it? God's.

The hidden.

Kris Lacy (50:42):
Hidden hand. Yeah. So at the end,
I didn't think that I would get
so emotional. I felt really good about
it at first. But, you know, we
have to always be conscious that God
has, like, always gone before us. Like,
he never leaves or forsakes us. And
when it feels like he's not there
and it feels like you're alone, like,

(51:06):
I'm busy already, you know, my grace
has already gone before you. Like, every
time I thought I was by myself
or I was afraid, he showed up
in a way that. Yeah, you know
what I mean? That provided comfort for
me or a new level of certainty
for me. So I just, for anyone
watching, just know that God's hidden hand,

(51:29):
it really isn't so hidden if we
look for it. Like, really. But sometimes
we don't. But he's there anyway. And
so that is the courage and confidence
that we can have when we know
that we are called. He's always there,
and we don't have to do it
alone.

Yeah, man.

Kris Lacy (51:44):
Yeah.

That's good.

I love it.

Kris Lacy (51:46):
Yeah.

All right. For me, you were giving
me that look, like, huh?

Kris Lacy (51:50):
Yeah.

For me, I think I'm in a
Mordecai season. So I think that for
me, I just recognizing. Identifying that it's
not so much about answering that for
such a time as this kind of
question. Like, it's not me saving the
world. It's me identifying the people and
encouraging the people and pushing some people
out of the nest and into the

(52:11):
next thing. And so that's what the
whole message that's kind of going through
my mind is like, okay, who are
the people that I need to be?
Mordecai, too.

Wow, that's good.

Kris Lacy (52:21):
That's how I feel about my kids.
Yeah, that's good.

That was good.

Kris Lacy (52:24):
I love that.

I definitely feel like you were Mordecai.
You do not let me cry about
anything. Him and Pastor, so they say,
oh, be like girl, get it together.
That's awesome. So I think my takeaway
is the. The kind of, like, what
I shared before. Like, if you're feeling

(52:45):
that. That push, like, if you feel
like you're operating in a space of
fear, that can become a space of
disobedience.

Yeah.

So I just encourage you to really
surrender that to God. Really get prayer
before him and ask him to reveal,
like, those hidden distractions or even those
areas where you're holding on to, like,
this is good. Like you said, Pastor
Brent, but God has great for you,
and so don't allow fear to keep

(53:16):
you kind of, like, stagnant or comfortable.

That's good.

And so, yeah, that. That's my takeaway.
And I think it was just such
a. A beautiful message. We all left
so inspired and encouraged to like Pastor
Moy yesterday. He said it well, like,
we're ready to go do some kung
fu out here as believers and disciples
of Jesus. So I encourage you to
if you didn't get get a chance
re watch the message. What did I

(53:43):
say?

Kris Lacy (53:44):
No, I was just rethinking about yeah.

He should have kicked full I'm just
saying. But no, re watch the message
and share this this podcast, I think
it was so full and really good
conversation to help inspire you in your
different seasons no matter where you are.
So let us know if this episode
blessed you. And until next week, we
love you here on between sermons and
at Disciples Church and we'll see you
soon.

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