From Death to Life: Understanding God’s Grace & Your Purpose

Episode Transcript
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Priti Idrovo (00:07):
And then we're going to go through
the rest of it. Okay. Remaining verses.

Pastor Brent McQuay (00:14):
Yep. Three, two, one. Hey. Welcome to
another episode of Between Sermons. I'm the
host, Brent McWay, and I get to

(00:35):
be the lead pastor here at Disciples
Church. And this show is all about
creating an opportunity for us to continue
the conversation. So much of what a
preacher does on Sunday is really monologue,
and we love to be able to
turn that into an actual dialogue, an
actual conversation. And so you can kind
of view this podcast as kind of
a. A glimpse into maybe a small
group discussion as we dive into today's

(00:57):
message. As always, you don't have to
have watched the. The sermon in order
to get something out of this conversation.
But if you'd like to go back
and watch it, there will be a
link in the show notes for you.
Today is a special day because my
normal host is out sick today, so
be praying for her that she's feeling
better. But that means that our behind
the scenes Pretty gets to come in
front of the camera. So usually we

(01:19):
just hear your voice, like back in
the. In the background, laughing, giving you
guys a number. Crazy.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Or like when Taisha forgets her Bible.

Yeah.

You know, you. You're the one it
out on set.

Yes. My name is Pretty, and I'm
just. I'm thankful to be here. Honestly.
I feel like just being in the
room during the podcast is like such
an honor and privilege. And now I'm
like, sitting here, I'm like, I have
no idea how to host, but I'm
excited. I mean, Pastor Soul. Pastor Brian.
Oh, that's who we have today is
Pastor Soul, who preached on Sunday and

(01:50):
you gave. I've been calling you Pastora
Fuego because you bring the passion, the
fire. And honestly, so many people left
yesterday that I talked to, and they
were like, just this. Had this aha.
Moment of like, oh, that's what it
means, Grace, you know, and the examples
that you use. So I'm excited to

(02:11):
get into it and talk a little
bit more about it.

Pastor Sol McQuay (02:13):
Yeah, no, I think that for me,
that that was the. The best compliment
I could get. Right. Because we don't
want the Bible to be this book
that you read and you don't understand
anything, because if you don't understand it,
there's no change in your life because.
Because. Because you don' what it means.
Like, I don't know what I'm supposed

(02:33):
to say, and I don't know how
I'm supposed to live, but when you
truly understand it, when you See the
weight of all of the words, and
you actually live knowing what I am
reading, then there's change that can happen
in your life. So for me, that
is the best thing that I could
hear is like, I understand it now.

(02:55):
It's just like, well, praise God that
he can help us to get there.
So, yeah.

Yeah. And I feel like that that's
what I kept hearing is like the
example you used of the $5,000. I
was just sitting there, and I'm like,
whoa. Like, first I thought you were
gonna say, and God's grace gives back
$5,000 more. And. But you said a
million dollars, and I was like, wow.
Like, that is how much God has
really, like, given us. More than we

(03:21):
can even imagine. And so I guess
we could start off with just, like,
the first few verses. How do you
guys want to go through this? Pastor
Brett, I'm just here for the ride.
Okay.

I'm good. I got my Bible and
everything.

Yeah.

What's your overview of Ephesians, chapter two
like, as you spend a lot of
time studying it, preparing for the message?
What's the big picture of Ephesians 2?

So do you want me to give
what I gave yesterday?

Sure.

So yesterday. Let's see if I can
remember it, because I don't have that
written down here with me. But the
first few verses talk about what God
saved us from, which is, you know,
dead and sin and trespassing, the trespasses
of our sin. Then it talks about
what we have been saved by, which

(04:11):
is grace. And then it talks about
what we have been saved by, through
which is faith. And then it shows
us what we have been saved for.
You know, he has saved us for
good works that he wants us to
do. So I think that it is
just a beautiful picture of the gospel.
That's what. That's what Ephesians, to me

(04:32):
gives me. Ephesians 2 gives me the
gospel in just a clear way. It
is painting a picture of this is
where you were, and this is what
God has done, and this is why
he did it.

Yeah.

So from by through four.

Yeah, I loved that. Yeah, I want
that in a poster somewhere or something,
because it's so. It is the gospel
in the most simple way of understanding
it. And so I believe a lot
of people yesterday were like, oh, okay.
You know, the gospel, I believe has
power. And then the way you broke
it down, a lot of people were
like, oh, like, this is what it

(05:07):
means if I gave my life to
Christ, you know, so it was so
powerful.

And I think that you can never
go wrong to just read the Bible.
And that's what we did. Like, just
open your Bible. We're just gonna go
through all of the verses and see
what we can gain from those. And
there's just so much of the wisdom
that Paul gave us through that inspiration
of the Holy Spirit. It's beautiful.

So being saved from death, from sin,
from trespasses, what does that look like
in the average person's life? So, you
know, for somebody that's like, man, I
don't even know if that applies to
me.

I think that a dead person doesn't
even know that it's dead. Right. So
when you are dead in trespasses and
sins, it looks like not wanting or
even desiring a relationship with God, you're
dead. There's no. Yeah, there's no desires
there. There's no conviction there. There's nothing.

(06:05):
Right. It is actively choosing to go
against what the Bible says. It is
allowing the. Paul says it very clearly.
You know, you. You live with a
following. The passions of your flesh and
the desires of your body and of
your mind. It is saying, I am
going to do whatever I want, whatever

(06:25):
makes me happy, wherever feels good. If
you like it. Good. If you don't
like it, too bad. It makes me
happy. Yeah, Right. And that thing, that's
the culture that we are in right
now. It is just you do you.
And as long as nobody else gets
hurt, you just live your best life.
And that is being dead and what

(06:49):
it looks like to be dead today,
it's just. Just. Do you. Nothing else
matters. If it makes you happy, if
it is, you know, if you are
finding the comfort in this, keep on
going and you're dead.

Yeah. Something that I wanted to point
out that I loved that you highlighted
was Paul writes this in past tense,
right? Like, he talks about how you
were, how you lived, how you've been
saved. Like, so it's all past tense.
You walked. Right. But I love that
you highlighted the fact that while Paul

(07:25):
writes it in the past tense, for
some of us as we're reading it,
it's not past tense. Like, it's not
that I once walked, it's that I'm
currently walking. And what maybe we didn't
have time in the message to really
elaborate on is how do you know
if it's past tense in your life
or present tense? Like, where's the grace

(07:46):
in that? Like, it's like, okay, if
I sin at all today, does that
mean I'm walking or is that just.
I had a mess up today. Like,
what's your pastoral thought on that?

I think that I go back to
the verse, you know, it says, among
whom we all once lived. So again,
it is in the past tense, but
I think that it is not one
action. I think that it is not
a one time thing. I think that
just truly speaking, we all still sinners

(08:20):
because we are not perfect and we
are still growing and we are still
getting better and we are still, you
know, aspiring to be more and more
like Jesus every day. So we are
still gonna fall short many times. Right.
But I think that there's a difference
between this one time I feel in
this, or I am living this way

(08:43):
constantly. Like this is just what I
do. And I think that that is
the difference. I think that it is
not just a one time thing. And
then you felt it and you repented
and you confessed and you are trying
to not do the thing. It is
when you're just, you're just happy here,
you know, this is what I want
to do. And even if you know

(09:04):
that it is wrong, but it feels
good, you know, Like I was talking
to my group last week and somebody
was talking about how for so many
years, even though they were going to
church and knowing the scripture, there was
so many times that they were saying,

(09:24):
I'm sorry, God, but I'm gonna do
this. You know, like you're just saying,
I know that you don't like it,
but I'm still gonna do it.

Let me try and repent in advance.

Yeah.

You know, like it was one of
those that I'm like, I know you
said no, but I want to. And
I think that that is when you
are not, you are not able to
say this in the past tense.

Yeah.

You're like, you're actively choosing, you're actively
seeking to go after these things.

Yeah.

So I think that is. I think
that's the difference. It is not a
man. I fell again, you know, I
did it again and I didn't want
it to. Like, I have been trying
so hard to. To, to abstain from
or to not go there, or to
not watch this, or to not say
that wherever it might be. That's a
difference when you just say, I'm just

(10:11):
going for it.

Yeah, I love that. Because one thing
that really stuck out to me that
you said was how we go. We're
not going from bad to good, but
we're going from dead to alive. And
so for me, I think of this
of like, well, God, you're not condemning
me, right? From going from Like, I'm
a bad person doing bad things to.

(10:33):
Like, now I'm going to be good.
But really, you took me out of
death, and the works that I was
doing was creating death in my life.
Like the fruit of that, those bad
decisions or the things that go against
God were creating death, and they were
destroying things. Right. But now I can
choose what God wants, and it's actually

(10:54):
bringing life. And I love that you
brought that. Brought that up. Like, the
difference between those two things.

And something that I didn't say because
I. I was telling. But I'm like,
who this girl? Because I was like.
And the root of this word is.
And let me define all of this
term. Yes. Like, it feels so. So
different from my usual, you know.

Like, it's just like soul working on
her. Greek.

Exactly. Just all of that stuff. But
the. The other. The other word that
I was wanting to. To bring up,
and it's just I just for. For
time. I didn't. But the actual word
of where the. The Bible says, made
alive, he made us alive in Christ,
it actually can be translated as reanimate.

(11:36):
So it is like this picture of
you're a dead body. You call 91
1, you know, like, you stop breathing,
you call 91 1. Somebody comes and
they are gonna do chest compression. Chest
compression. Chest compressions. Right.

Yeah.

So that is basically exactly. I was
like, nobody else?

No.

I thought in my mind that rhythm,
you know? So that is basically what
the Holy Spirit does in us when
we are spiritually dead. He is coming
because you, a dead person, cannot make
themselves alive. You need an outside source
to do the work. So that is
what the Holy Spirit does. And that
to me is really cool. You know,

(12:15):
like, you cannot choose God. Somebody else
has to kind of push a little
bit of God into you. And that
is the Holy Spirit. How awesome it
is that the Holy Spirit is at
work reanimating you so that. So that
you are not staying dead.

Yeah.

So it is that, like, outside. Outside
source that it is making you come
alive.

Yes.

So it is not just be alive.
Like, he is literally working in you
so that you can start breathing again.
So I. I don't know. It is
really cool to me.

Yeah. It's good visual.

Yeah.

Yeah. So do you guys remember. I'll
ask you, Pastor Brent first. Like, that
moment where you real, like, you came
from death to life, man.

I think I've. I've probably experienced that
moment more than once.

Yeah.

Which I don't know if that's a
good thing or not, because it means
that I was alive, and then I
chose to be dead again. But I
think that's the reality of a lot
of us that, you know, I was
first introduced to all this when I
was four years old. But I do
know that there was a moment when
I was about 18, 19 years old
where it was like, no, I've been.

(13:25):
I've been okay with my sin for.
For far too long. And. And I
did recognize that there was. There was
something spiritually in me that was just
dead. And then it was like a
switch got flipped. And so, yeah, it
was that. Absolutely.

Yeah.

Yeah. I think that for me was.
I was 16 years old, and I
have. I have said my. My testimony
a few times, you know, and actually,
for first love, that's what I. That's
what I did. But at 16 years
old, like, I. Before that, I was
just seeking sin. Like, sin was not
seeking me. I was seeking sin. Like.

(14:00):
Like, my parents were like, you cannot
go to these parties. You cannot do
these things. And I was like, hold
my purse. I'll be right back. Right.
So I was just.

As a teenager does sometimes.

Exactly. And I was like, you said
that I cannot drink. I'm still gonna
drink. And I didn't even like it,
but I was still after it.

Yeah.

You know, I didn't like the flavor
of it, but I will still get
buzzed because everybody else is doing it,
you know, and you cannot do this.
And I'm like, well, I'm going to,
you know, and you cannot dance. And
I'm like, well, I learned how to
dance everything. So, like, I was in
this trespassing, right? Like. Like, there's a
boundary, and I was violating the boundary.
Like, I'm like, I'm going to go
on the other side, and I'm gonna

(14:38):
do whatever I want. And it was
a time where I thought that I
was enjoying myself, but every single time
that I did something that was not
what I knew because I grew up
with parents that are pastors. So, like,
I grew up reading a scripture and
learning a scripture and, you know, just

(15:00):
listening to the word of God constantly.
So it is not something that you
are ignorant of. Like, I knew this
is not okay. And it was always
this just heaviness that. I don't know.
I don't know necessarily if I can
say dead, but it was definitely not
pleasant, you know, but it was at

(15:22):
16 years old. And I remember when
I prayed and I said, God, I
don't want to keep fighting this anymore.
Like, I don't know why I keep
going Back to the same thing when
I don't even enjoy anything because I
just feel the guilt and the pressure
and the. And the sadness of knowing
that I am not doing the right
thing. And it was. It was so

(15:42):
different from that moment on. I was.
I was able to. To sense even
the. The call of God on my
life, which I didn't felt before. Yeah,
it was just. It was. It was
different.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So good.

What about you?

My story is very different because I
had a background from a different religion,
so I grew up Hindu. But one
thing that sticks out, so I won't
go into, like, such. The long. The
long detail of the testimony, but right
before I got saved, I was doing.
I was trying to find. Right. Like,
what the truth is. I was searching

(16:17):
who is God, who, like, who am
I? Identity. And I was doing these
works. Like, I was like burning sage,
buying crystals, like, reading every religious book
you could find. You know, just trying
to, like, fill myself with knowledge. And
it makes me think of, like, how
I was doing all these works. And

(16:38):
then one day I picked up the
Bible and of course, the Lord, you
know, led me there, and I was
like, maybe a few chapters into Genesis,
and in my. In the living room
on my couch, it was like you
said, it was like the lights went
on and I was aware of. Well,
first I felt the love of God
and, you know, that alive feeling, and
then also just aware of my sin.

(16:59):
And then I wasn't. I was ignorant
of it. And then all of a
sudden it was like this awareness. But
the thing that stuck out to me
that you said yesterday for me personally,
was like, I didn't do anything to
deserve that. Like, I did nothing to
earn it. And another thing, I was
like. And thank God, because then we
won't have people boasting and bragging. And
one thing I saw in the. The

(17:20):
spiritual things that I was seeking and
in that community, there was a lot
of that ego, you know, of, like,
well, I'm. I'm more spiritual than this
other person because I'm doing A, B
and C. And I love that in
the kingdom of God. It's not like
that. Yeah, we're just receiving his goodness.

Yeah.

Yeah, that's saved by grace.

Yeah.

I mean, honestly, I think that that's
the message of Ephesians, chapter 2. Just
the first 10 verses. Just talking about,
okay, here's. Here's who you were because
of sin. But it wasn't that you
woke up one day and you said,
I want to do better. It's not
that you Just woke up one day
and you're like, okay, I'm gonna stop
doing those things. No, no. You woke
up one day and you realized, I'm

(18:02):
a sinner and I need. I need
salvation.

Yeah.

And that salvation comes by grace, through
faith, not by work, so that no
man can boast. Like, the language of
that is just so freeing. I think
that, that. That grace is really the
thing that drives this. It's not my
efforts that drive it.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And I think that for me, something
that is beautiful is the fact that
even when you. That we have the
ability to wake up and say, I
am a sinner, because of what he
has already done, you know, I. I
think that we have the ability and
the freedom to be able to come
to him because the price has already
been paid. So Jesus gave us the

(18:44):
ability to be able to come to
the Father again. And that is so
beautiful. It is not just to say,
well, today I feel like I have
been a sinner and I need salvation.
Now what? And then God is going
to try to figure something out. The

(19:04):
gift is there already. The answer to
your problems, the answer to your sin,
the answer to all of the things
is already there and available to you.
So whenever that. That awakening happens in
you, you can just come to him.
Because it's a. It's a. It's already
been made a way for you to

(19:25):
be able to do that. And I
think that is the beautiful thing of
the Gospel is that it is not.
Now that I realize that something is
wrong, I have to figure it out,
what to do. It is just that
part. It is just awakening to the
fact that you are a sinner and
just receiving the grace and the mercy
of God. And I think that's just

(19:45):
beautiful.

And that's a huge part of Paul's
message to the Ephesians, too, is that
this was the plan before time began,
like, before you were created, before you
ever sinned, before Adam and Eve ate
the fruit, all the way before all
of that, this plan was already the
plan. So that's. That's why it's not
like God's going, oh, what am I

(20:05):
going to do now? Right. Like, the
plan was already set in motion. The
plan was already set in place. And
so now we get to just receive
it. Right? Faith. Right?

Yeah. And I. I would say that's
probably what I hear the most, even
just talking to people, you know, believers,
sisters in Christ, brothers in Christ. I
think that part of receiving it is
hard for people. Why? Like, why do
you guys think that is? And Is
can you guys offer any, I guess,
advice or something that could help someone

(20:39):
receive this grace?

I think it's hard for us to
receive it because everything else we experience
in life is transactional. Like everything else
is you earn it so you receive
it like I deserve it or I've
done something. And so then we all
of a sudden we come to this
thing that is the biggest thing in
our lives, the most important thing. It's
what happens at the end of this
life. You know, we die. And so

(21:02):
because we've been trained up to believe
that I have to perform a certain
way for people to admire me or
admonish me, like it's. I had to
do things for my coach to say
good job. I had to do things
for my teacher to say good job.
I had to do things for my
parents to say good job, I had
to do in order to receive. And
so then all of a sudden we
come to this massive thing of eternity
and our salvation. And so we immediately

(21:25):
go into, okay, what must I do
in order to, to, to deserve this?
And so I think it's just, it's
part of our, I don't know, it's
part of our life to, to be
pre programmed, I guess into that mindset
of just constantly believing that I have
to do something in order to be
worthy of something.

Yeah, that's true.

And I think that something that I
have seen in that finally kind of
were put into words by one of
my friends who is a therapist. When
we know the word of God, when
we know what the word says, but

(22:07):
we are still walking in sin, it
is easier for us to try to
pretend like God doesn't exist or try
to push God to the side because
that helps us not feel so guilty
of the things that we are doing
because we know that God doesn't approve
of it. So if he's not going

(22:28):
to approve of it, then I would
rather just pretend or put God to
the side so that he is not
a factor in everything that I do.
And I think that there's so many
times where you are pushing God so
much to the side so that you
can do whatever you want that you
don't know how to allow God to
come back in and, and receive his

(22:49):
love. Because now you just feel the
guilt of everything that you have ever
done.

Yeah.

And because you knew that you were
not supposed to be doing these things.
So I was like, like Adam, you
know, I was trying to hide, like
I was just like, I'm just over
here because I know that I did
what you told me not to. So
I'm just going to hide over here.
Even though you know exactly where I
am and you know exactly what I
did. Right. But I think that something
that you need to understand is that

(23:14):
God is not condemning you. God is
not wanting to punish you. God is
not wanting to bring all of this
bad stuff to you. For the contrary,
he wants to give you what you
don't deserve, which is life. And what
he wants is for you not to

(23:34):
feel ashamed of yourself or to feel
condemned by your actions. But he wants
you to see that there is restoration
that is possible to. To you, so
that you don't have to keep carrying
all of the weight of everything that
you have ever done, because Jesus already
did that for you. So I think
that what you need to know and
what. And the advice that I would

(23:55):
give is to come with everything. You
know, even if you feel. Even if
you feel ashamed, even if you feel
like this, this is going to be
awkward, and this is going to be
difficult to be able to say, God,
this is all I have ever done,
still come. Because he can take all
of that and trade it for something
that you could not even begin to

(24:16):
imagine. Like, it is gonna be a
life that is so worth it. So.
So I understand that sometimes pushing God
to the side may feel a little
more freeing because you don't have to
think about the stuff that you're doing.

Yeah, it's a lot easier to just
not.

Not think about it, you know, like
just. Just forget about it. Just pretend
it's not there. But you can only
go in that vein for so long.
So if you feel the pull of
God, just surrender and just say, okay,
this is me. This is all of
me. Because that's what he wants. He
wants to be able to take you
and clean you and make you new

(24:53):
again. And I think that that's what
we need to be like. Don't think
that you have to be perfect. Don't
think that you need to clean up
some stuff first. Don't think that you
have to get this one thing right
first. You can just come with all
of the mess.

Yeah.

And allow the Holy Spirit to do
something in you.

Yeah. You know, I was just sharing
that with Andy before we started the
podcast of, like, how there when I
tell my testimony, I was actually on
my couch getting high and I got
saved. And then God did a work,
and it's still doing a work, you
know, And I think that's something important
that I feel like the Lord has

(25:30):
me share to show people like, you
don't have to clean yourself up. And
yesterday during the worship, I think a
moment that was like, so powerful that,
like, softened our hearts to the word
of God that you ended up preaching
was that moment in worship where, you
know, he loves us. And that present,
that, that love that we felt from

(25:50):
God. And that's my prayer, even for,
like, unsaved family members and friends is
like, they would know the love of
God. So before I even knew I
was a sinner, I felt his overwhelming
love. And because I knew his love,
that's when you can, like, you're not
going to run away from him if
you mess up because you're like, okay,
he loves me and he allows me

(26:11):
to make mistakes and I can ask
questions and I could, I, I could
vent. I could be like, God, what's
going on here? Like, why is this
happening to me? And I could be
real with him. And that's like, that's
one thing that I'm just. I love
that about God is like, where else
can you really be that in the
world? You know, you try to be
your authentic self, you know, in the

(26:32):
world, but it's like, it doesn't feel
as safe. But with God, you could
be all you.

Yeah, yeah. Every time. And that's what
he. And that's what he wants, you
know, like, when Jesus was here on
Earth, the, The people that he was
the most bothered by were the ones
that were trying to pretend.

Yeah, yeah.

Trying to be like, oh, no, I'm
all good. Like, you know, like, this
is what we're supposed to do. He
was like, come on now.

Yeah.

Like, you say one thing and do
another. You try to, to hold people
to one standard you're not even living
at, you know, like, that's where he
was the most frustrated. And if you
see who, who he had the most
compassion to was those who were like,
sinners. Sinners. Like, you know, like, this
woman is caught in adultery. And what

(27:21):
he says, I don't. Where are the
people that condemn you? I don't condemn
you either. But then he said, go
and say no more. Right? So like,
like he gave compassion. Like, he, he
was not there. Like, you are a
horrible person. I cannot believe what you
were doing. And you were even caught
on it. Like, none of that.

Yeah.

Yet, yet he yelled at the people
who were being all, like, righteous and,
you know, self righteous and all self
put up in places. He was just
like, you're hypocrites, you know, So I
think that that's something that we need
to Understand, like, he wants you for
you. He doesn't want you to put
up an act to come to him.

(28:02):
He wants the real you so that
he can have compassion on you, that
he can love on you. And then
he's gonna tell you, go, say no
more, because that's it. Like, you cannot
just keep being your. Your true self
forever and ever and just keep receiving
compassion. He's gonna tell you, he's gonna
challenge you to go and live a
different life. But a lot of people

(28:25):
feel the fear of God because they
feel like this. He is just this
ginormous being that just sitting on a
throne, waiting to punish people. Right? Like,
you did bad. Here you go. You
did bad. There's another punishment, and that
is not our God. Our God is
a God of compassion and love and
mercy and grace. And what he wants.
Yeah. Is for your life to change,

(28:46):
but he also wants to lavish you.

Yeah.

With. With his grace.

I love that word.

That's the. The verse that I brought
up in our. Our staff meeting earlier
today in Romans, where Paul says that
it's the kindness of God that leads
to repentance. And I think that that's
one of the things that we experienced
yesterday was just this overwhelming kindness of
God. The love, the presence of God.
But what that always highlights, too. And
I think the best way to describe
this is, like, I've had moments where,

(29:12):
like, I have a hard time telling
different, like, white shirts apart. Like, it's
like, okay, this is white, but this
is off white, and this is white,
but this is cream. And, like. And
like, as a guy, I'm just like,
they're all. Help me out. It's all
white. Like, but when you hold. Like,
Soul's had to do this for me
because she picks up my clothes most
of the time. Thank you, lovely wife.
But there are times when I'm like,

(29:33):
okay, is this white? And then I'll
hold it up to something else, and
that's when I realize, oh, that's. That's
not very white at all.

Yeah.

And it's when you hold it up
to something that is pure, just unadulterated,
unblemished, just pure white, that you're like,
oh, what I thought was white totally
isn't. And that's what it is. When
you're in the presence of God's love
and his kindness, it's. It's. First, you're
just overwhelmed by his love, but then
comes this realization that what I thought

(30:03):
was good enough is. I mean it.
The Bible even talks about it's Just
filthy rags. Like, all of my works,
all of the stuff that I thought
was, man, this is pretty good. Like,
man, this is a little. Little grayish,
but it's like, that's pretty light, you
know? And then I hold it up
to God and it's like, oh, yeah,
no, that's not. And so. And that's

(30:23):
what really should be bringing us to
repentance is when we're in the presence
of God. It's just this overwhelming sense
of that's perfection, that is goodness, that
is love. And what I have to
offer is not that. And that's where
all of a sudden the rest of
the verse comes in. And it's okay,
but it's by grace, because while you

(30:44):
were still dead, while you were still
not even close to being pure white,
he still died for you. And so
it's by grace and it's through our
faith, which is simply, is our trust
in Him. We're saying, look, it's not
the works that I can do. I
can. I can try and scrub this
thing clean as much as I want,
but I'm not going to get the
job done. But when I just surrender

(31:05):
and say, look, I'm just. I'm trusting
God that he's got this, that's where
salvation comes.

Yeah. And I think that what I.
What I love about this is that
we don't work to earn the salvation,
you know, but because we earn salvation,
we work.

Yeah.

Like, it is a response. Like, it
is not to get it. It is
because you realize where you were and
the grace that you have been receiving.

Yeah.

Then. Then you have this motivation to
do.

Yeah. And I remind myself of that
a lot because it's so opposite from
the world. And so I'll be like,
okay, I'm fighting from victory. Like, I'm
doing this from love. And that is
like, that. Even just that language, saying
it out loud for me helps me
to understand. Like, okay, why? Because the
motivation of the heart is so important

(31:55):
to God. You know, just walking with
him.

For me, like, I hate cleaning. Just
the process of cleaning, like washing the
dishes. Like, I hate that. It's just
the worst. But I love my wife.
And because I love her, there are
things that I'm gonna do for her.
And it's not for her to, okay,
I wash the dishes. Now she loves
me. Now she does. No, no, it's.
It's purely because I love her that

(32:20):
I'm gonna do things. And I think
that when we approach God in the
same way, where it's like, because of
My love for him because of his
love for me. There are some things
that I'm going to do, and one
of those things is I'm going to
stop walking and living in sin, and
I'm going to do whatever I can
do to avoid those things and to
correct things in my life where, yeah,

(32:40):
it's awesome. You know, you get saved
while high. Okay, it's not as awesome
if 5 years later you're still getting
high. Every time you read your Bible,
it's like, okay, there's process to this.
And, and it's not those things that
make you worthy of salvation, but it's
because you've received the salvation by grace,
through faith that now you're going to
do some things on the other side.

Yeah, I love that. And you're always
like, I'm learning. I'm like, oh, there's
more God. What else is in my
heart? You know, there is more you.

Like, it's. And that's why it's so
important for all of us to understand
that none of us have arrived there.
You know, Like, I love the. Paul
says, no, like, I have already reached
the end. And I'm like, if you
didn't, then who can do it? Because,
like, seriously, like, everything that he. Everything
that he lived and everything that he
wrote and all of the things that,

(33:30):
that he did for God and like,
oh, man, and we are over.

Here suffered for Christ.

Exactly. But I think that there's a
lot of people that feel like, well,
I am so much better than other
people because, you know, like, no, none
of us have arrived there. And I
think that we need to understand that.
And we need to understand that there's
times that maybe in this season I
am struggling with my patience, right? And
then God is really dealing with me
and being more patient. And then finally

(33:57):
I am getting my patient under control.
And all of a sudden I'm dealing
with anger. It's like, okay, now I
have to get my anger under control.
And then all of a sudden I
am dealing with something else. Like, it
is a constant working. It's a constant
doing. Because different systems also bring different
things and different ways of life and
different people in our life. And just
all of this stuff always is bringing

(34:18):
stuff up. Then the Holy Spirit is
saying, okay, now you have to focus
on this and, and get more like
Jesus in this area in this season,
and then that you're getting better over
here. But then something else is popping
up, right? So it's like a, like
a constant whack, a mole coming down
and it's.

Just like, thank God. It's like one
at a time, you know, Sometimes.

Sometimes it's all of them, and you're
just trying to figure it out. If
you have a heavy brick, just break
the whack a mo.

The sad reality, too. And. And this
is. Man, it's where it's like, we
all need grace. And this is why
I'm so grateful that this is all
driven by grace, is that it's not
even just that, Okay. I figured this
thing out, and I can put it
on the shelf. And now I got
to address these other things. Like, that
thing you put on the shelf five
years ago can easily fall off the
shelf.

Oh, yeah.

And. And you have to repeat lessons,
and.

You'Re like, but I thought that I
already got that.

Yeah. Like, I. Like. I talked at
First Love about how, like, Brent cannot
be made angry easily no longer applies.
There was a season where that was
like, a huge issue in my life,
and I had to work on it
and stuff, man. I feel like since
I said that out loud at First
Love, God's like, oh, really?

You're tested.

Oh, really? You don't get angry easily.
All right, how about if I poke
you here? Are you going to get
angry?

Okay.

What if I bring this person in
to say these things? Are you going
to get angry? Okay. What if this
person mistreats you? Are you going to
get angry? And it's like, will you
stop it?

Are you passing the test, man?

I don't know. I. I don't know
if it's a test or I don't
know. Correction. I don't know. Yeah, I'm
working on it.

Life. I was. I've been telling my
son, I'm like, it's the game of
life, and I'm losing.

Thank God he won. Yeah. And so
the end. The last verse that you
used, I loved and I. Even talking
about how we are works in progress
and we are. His workmanship, I feel
like, really just gave everybody that identity.
And you said it's your family verse.

Yes.

Yeah, it's on the wall in our
living room when you.

Yes, yes.

I love it. I'm totally stealing that.

It. To me, it just so good.
Like, when I was growing up, my
mom always had like, this is our
family verse, right? And it was the.
The.

I don't just say it in Spanish.

I was like, I don't know how
it goes in English. Like, the. This
book of the law shall never depart
from your mouth.

You know, Deuteronomy, something.

Yeah. So I don't I don't know.
I'm trying to translate it as I'm
thinking about it, but. But it's that
one, you know, like. But you will
meditate on a day and night so
that, you know, so that you will
be sure to. To watch and do
everything that it is written in it
somewhere in there. Like I'm trying to
think in. Of it in Spanish and
translate it as I go, but that.
That was the one. So when we

(37:00):
had our kids, I. I looked at
her and I'm like, what is our
family verse? He's like, I don't know.
And I'm like, I feel like we.

Need a family verse because leader in
the family.

I was like, I grew up having
a family verse. Like, I feel like
we need to have a family verse.

And I grew up not so.

Yeah, yeah, you know, so I felt
like I needed one. And the more
that I was reading the Bible and
stuff, that one just kept jumping at
me. And it. Because of, because of
our wall, it is kind of like
a marquee kind of situation in our
living room. So it just says we
are God's handiwork, created to do good.
That's all it says in there.

That's all it could fit.

That's all that could fit. But I
think that it is so important for
us to understand that God made us
that he made us as a masterpiece
and we have a purpose. We were
created to do good, you know, because
I. That's what I would like for
my kids to know. It doesn't matter
where you end up working. It doesn't
matter when you end up doing as
a career. It doesn't matter where, where

(37:56):
you are studying. It does. It doesn't
matter. None of that matters. You were
created to do good. So wherever you
go, you go do good there.

Yeah.

You know, like if, like my son
wants to be a soccer player. If
you end up being a soccer player
professionally, Jesus, make a. Come on, baby.

Spending too much money on this kid.
He needs to do something.

Like give him fast legs, Lord. But
you know, like, like if that were
to happen, do good there. Right? If
you are going to be an engineer,
do good there. Like if you are
going to be a teacher, do good.
Like you were created to do good.

So I love that you said that.
Sorry to cut you off, but I
love, I think it's so important because
I think people think like, oh, you
could only do good if you're in
a church position or if you're into
some type of ministry. That's like, related
to the, you know, being in the
church. And. And it's like, no, you
can, wherever you are, represent Jesus and

(38:55):
do the works of the Lord. So
I love that. And the verse that
we're talking about, just so if you
know the people who are listening, it
was from Ephesians 2, 10. And it
says, for we are his workmanship created
in Christ Jesus for good works, which
God prepared beforehand that we should walk
in them.

Yep.

Yeah. And I love that because he
prepared your destiny. And for me, that
was like, oh, God, like, you already
had a plan for me and so
you made me. Which you said this
during your sermon that I loved. You
made me in a specific way so
that that destiny, that plan that you

(39:34):
willed for me can be accomplished.

And sometimes you can see your life
and be like, oh, that makes sense.
You know, like, for me, being a
communicator makes sense. Like, since I was
little, I remember never stops talking. I.
I have. That's. That has been my
only one problem. Like, I always had.

Would you get in trouble for that?

All the time.

Me too. All the time.

Like, I. I was a straight 10.
Like, in Mexico, you don't have letters.
You go by numbers. And 10 is
your, like, your A.

Basically, like, soul's always talking in class.

Like, I always had 10 on everything.
Like, that was like, I was. I
was a straight a student, right? 10,
10, 10, 10, 10,.

10, 10.

But every time that we had parent
teacher conf. She like, she talks too
much. She talks all the time. My
teacher will say, you know, do you
want to. Do you want to give
the class today? Because, like, I was
just talking, I will be like, sure,
and I will get up and I
start making things up. Like, I had
no problem, the gift, you know, and

(40:34):
because I had never had like a
public speaking issues, like fears or anything
like that. And I was always in
charge of like the big ceremonies. Like,
there were a lot of times that
we will be hosting like, like politicians
or. Or like special families or like
special festivals for like the Mother's Day
or Father's Day, stuff like that. And

(40:56):
they always wanted students to be the
ones, like, reading all of the programs
and stuff like that. They. They picked
me all the time because I had
no problem being on a microphone reading
stuff in front of everybody. Right?

Yeah.

So now you fast forward to this
point and I'm like, I have no
problem getting up and speaking, right? Like,
I don't. I don't have the fear
of, of public speaking, but there may
be some people that you feel like,
that, like, it does not make sense.
Like, my husband can tell you that.

Because I was like, some people. I
mean, like, what people are we talking
about here?

Like, he's like, don't put me in
front of people. I don't want to
talk about in front of people. I
don't. I don't want people looking at
me.

Yeah.

Yet God said, you're gonna be a
pastor. You're gonna teach in front of
people. So sometimes you look at yourself
and it makes sense. And sometimes you
look at yourself and it doesn't make
sense. But you still have. If God
called you for this, you have what
it takes, and you can do it.

Yeah. And. And. And a good, clarifying,
like, explanation for that is it. It
will always make sense in some areas.
The parts that don't make sense are
typically, that's where God's stretching you or.
Or pushing you to rely on him.
And so even. Even though soul, like,
is admitting, you know, great public speaker
has no issues with it or at

(42:09):
all, there has been times in your
life where you're like, but I'm doing
it in English, and that's not my
first language. And so, like, there is
some fear that is the.

Every. Every Sunday that I have to
speak. Like, if I have to host,
if I have to do anything, I
always end up. And I go to
Bren. I'm like, did that make sense?
Like. Like, do you understand? I was
saying. Was it. Was it clear? Because
this is.

I knew you do a great job.

I'm new here, so I think what
I'm. What I'm getting at with all
that is in the places where you
don't think it makes sense, that's probably
the place where you have to trust
God.

Yeah.

And, like, even for me, like, the.
The role that I'm in as a
pastor, as a communicator, there's so many
things in my life where I'm like,
that doesn't make any kind of sense.
And there's so many areas in my
life where I'm like, that makes complete
sense. And it's in the areas that
don't make sense, where it's like, okay,
God, I'm just trusting in you, and
I'm relying on your strength to do
this. And I think that there's. There's
a humility that comes when you realize

(43:05):
that, yeah, God equipped me exactly what
I needed for this. But he left
a piece out so that I couldn't
be like, yeah, I got this.

Right.

Yeah, Right. Yeah, that's important. And I
Love that. Because it is those two
different, like, dichotomy or extremes or I
don't even. Two different ways of how
God works in you is he's already
placed it in you or you're going
to have to depend on him.

Yeah.

And you need both at the same
time.

Yeah, yeah.

Like, for me, like, preaching actually makes
tons of sense for me, personality wise.
My. My ability to study, my love
for. For learning all of that. My.
My desire to just always just simplify
things. How do we just make this
accessible? Right. So that, that makes me
a great communicator. I just happen to
hate being on stage with people looking

(43:49):
at me while talking. That makes me
a horrible communicator. Right. But it's this
balance of, okay, God gave me the
skills and the, the abilities, the things
that I needed to be able to
communicate. And then he says, okay, now
trust me because you're going to be
afraid to do it.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So good.

Yeah. And. And the funny thing for
me is I have no problem talking.
Right. I have no problem. Just you
give me a microphone and say, going
clown around.

Yeah.

We will have a great time.

All right, so filter.

I could also imagine so in Spanish,
like, if you're this good in English.

Like, just go have phone. Right. And
I can do that.

Yeah.

But when it comes to preaching, that's
a different thing. And Brent can tell
you that pretty much every time that
I'm gonna have to actually preach, it
is almost a panic attack before I
have to go on the stage because
I feel the weight of the word
of God. So me communicating anything, like
just joking around, telling you jokes, just

(44:49):
talking about the weather, talking about wherever.

Hanging out in a podcast.

Yeah.

Hanging out, like, just. That's different.

Yeah.

When I have to actually teach, like
Bennett, my son, always says, why are
you always so nervous? Like, you do
a good job. Why are you always
like this? On our way, like, we're
on the way more like, you know,
like, you.

Don'T think of this, you know, like.

Every time we're driving to church when
she's going to communicate, she's like, I'm
going to throw up. I'm going to
throw up. I feel like I'm going
to throw up.

It's intense, but you don't see that
at all.

It's intense stage.

Yeah.

Because I do feel the weight of,
of the word. Like, I feel. Feel
like what I am communicating is not
just soul being silly up there.

It's the word of God, the responsibility.

Yeah. Like you. You mess this One
up. And you can mess with a
lot of people's eternity.

Yeah.

Right. So, like, it is not a.
Just wherever like, it is. It is
the word of God and it has
power. So. So you better. You better
align yourselves to. So even though, like,
I have the. The. I don't have
the fear of speaking in public, I
do have a reverence to the word

(45:57):
of God. That. That makes me a
little more tense when I have, you
know, it's. It's. It's. It's interesting. Yeah,
yeah.

Fun times.

Yeah. But that's good to know. Even
sometimes when you're sitting there and you're
like, oh, yeah, our pastors, like, pray
for them, you know, because they're human.
Like, you guys are human, and you
guys go through these experiences, and it's
really. It's really God that keeps us
going. I think of that all the
time. And I'm like, God, it's really,
you know, you. I see the flaws
in myself. You could see flaws in

(46:26):
other people, but really, it's like, God,
it's your strength that's keeping people together.

Yeah, but the. The thing that I
just want to highlight in this verse
that I love so much is that
he created the works before he created
the person to do the works. Like,
in. In the. In the God timeline,
you know, God is outside of time,
but in his. In his timeline, like,
he's like, okay, here's the problem. Now
let me create the solution. And the

(46:52):
solution to the problem was you. Which.
Which means that it's not that he's
like, okay, what can I do with
Pretty? You know, she's got these qualities.
What. What could I possibly work out?
No, no, no. Before he made you,
the. The people in your life, the
situations you're going to go through, your
skills, your talents, your abilities, your good
experiences, your bad experience, your education, like,

(47:13):
all of it, before any of that,
he had this problem that he wanted
to solve using a person named Pretty.
And so he got the problem, and
then he created the person perfectly to
solve the problem, like, to do the
work. And so for me, that's always
just been exciting. Right? That. It's like,
before he made me, there was something
for me to do.

Yeah.

So good. Like, I'm not a problem,
I'm a solution.

Yes. Yes.

Yeah, I love that. So we still
have. We only went up to verse
10 in chapter two.

All right, so Brett is going to.

Tell us we want them in bite
size, like how you said yesterday.

What you got, Soul? What do we
got? 11 through 22.

Yes.

So he talks about, in this second
section about being one in Christ. And
I think that is beautiful because that's
where we all come in. You know,
all of these promises and all of
the things God had established for the
people of Israel were for the people

(48:15):
of Israel. But it wasn't until Jesus
came and he died, and he made
a way for all of us who
were not Jews, who were not in
his chosen people that we get now
to be able to participate in all
of it. And I think that that
is the beauty of the second half

(48:35):
of. Of this passage, is the fact
that we get to be able to
be grafted with the people of Israel.
We get to participate. We get to
know a God that we had no
knowledge of. We get to be a
part of this beautiful redemption story now.
And so it's just beautiful.

Yeah. The heading for this section is
One in Christ. And so I love
it because it ties into Ephesians 1,
where he kept talking about in Christ,
in Christ, in Christ. And then really
so much of the theology that he's
teaching in Ephesians 1 through 3 is
to help bridge the gap between Jew
and Gentile. And. And so that's important
for us because that's how we get

(49:18):
included in this. But it's this idea
that it's. It's not that there are
Gentiles because in the past, there was
just two groups of people. Right. From.
From a Old Testament viewpoint, there's two
groups of people. There are Jews and
there are Gentiles. And so what. What
happens in the New Testament is that
in Christ, it's. There's a third group,

(49:38):
and the third group is a. Is
everybody like. It's this blending of anyone
who's in Christ now you're part of
the same group, and it doesn't matter
if you were Jew or Gentile or
slave or free or Greek or Hebrew,
it doesn't matter anymore because in Christ
you're a new creation and you're part
of this new group. And so it's
just. He just kind of walks through
for these 12 verses, all of that.

Yeah, yeah.

Should we just take it verse by
verse? What do you think?

So I don't know verse by verse,
but maybe idea by idea. If you
want to talk about the uncircumcision and
circumcision, be my guest. I have no
experience with that.

People. The people want.

The people want to know.

People want to know verse by verse.
All right, so how about I'll read.
Throw a little interjection if you've Got
thoughts or whatever? You want to jump
in?

Sure.

Okay. All right. So verse 11 says,
Therefore remember that at one time you
Gentiles in the flesh called the uncircumcision
by what is called the circumcision, which
is made in the flesh by hands.
Okay? So obviously this is. Jewish people
are circumcised by hand.

By hand.

Sharp knife, Gentiles.

I heard it was a British armstone.

Gentiles obviously not circumcised. So he's all
that is that that whole verse is
just language to define Jew and gentile.
Then verse 12, he says, Remember that
you. And so he's talking about the
Gentiles. You were at that time separated
from Christ, alienated from the commonwealth of
Israel, and strangers to the covenants of

(51:15):
promise, having no hope and without God
in the world. Okay, so this is.
He's tying it into Old Testament. In
the Old Testament, the only route to
salvation was by being Jewish, that if
you were gentile, if you were non
Jewish at that time, you did not
have access to God, which meant that
there was no hope for you. Because
the hope that the Jewish people had

(51:36):
was, hey, even though we're oppressed, even
though life is bad, even though we're
sinful, we sacrifice this animal, our God
is pleased with us, and we have
salvation, right? And so there was. There
was hope even when they were in
bondage, even when they're in Egypt, even
though when they're in Babylonia, like in
all these moments, they still were able

(51:56):
to hold on to hope because they
had God but nobody else did. And
so it even uses this language of
you were alienated and you were strangers
of the covenant promises because God kept
making these covenants in the Old Testament,
made a covenant with Adam, made a
covenant with Noah, made a covenant with
Abraham, made a covenant with David. And

(52:17):
so we see all these different covenants
where God is making promises, but all
the promises keep falling on one group
of people. And even though there's elements
in those promises, this is part of
the mystery of the gospel that we've
talked about the last couple weeks. Even
though there's elements where, like in the
covenant to Abraham, he says, all nations
will be blessed through you. Right? So
there's this inclusion of others to a

(52:38):
degree, but for the most part it
is. It's isolated to, hey, these are
the people that I'm making the covenant
with. And so Gentiles are strangers to
that. We're outsiders. We don't get the
promises, we don't get the covenants, we
don't get the. The good stuff that.
That he's saying is going to happen.
And you want to add.

So what I was going to say
is that I feel like in today's
day and age, we still kind of
see this a little bit still. The
fact that now. I see it now
as a different group of people. You
know, the group of people that know
God and they know Jesus and not
following Jesus. And the ones that are

(53:17):
not. And sadly, the people that are
still not following Jesus, the people that
are. They have not accepted the gift
of salvation. The ones that have not
received the grace that has. That God
has available to them are still walking
with no hope and without God.

Absolutely.

And. And I think that that, to
me is so incredibly sad.

Yeah.

Because I want. At one point in.
In history, we truly were cut off
from that, but now it's accessible to
us, and yet so many people.

Yeah.

Are still living without the hope that
God can bring into their lives. So
I think that it is very important
for us to. You know, it's. This
is not an evangelism type of message,
but this is the. The urgency that
we should have to tell people about
Jesus. And I think that sometimes we

(54:09):
allow our. I don't know, our personality
or fears, our anxieties to. To put
a stop on us telling others about
God. But we need to remember this
passage like, people are living without hope.
People are living without God.

Amen.

And they need it.

Yeah. You said it's. It's not an
evangelism message, but can I lovingly correct.

But it is because it is, because
that's what it is, is the gospel.

Because anytime it's a gospel message, it's
an evangelism message. Because we. And. And
this is where this is good for
our audience. Like, we're going to preach
the gospel a lot at Disciples Church.
Like, I think we talked about it
in Growth Track, where it's like, hey,
if you get weirded out, or you're
like, man, why does he keep telling
us stuff we already know? Like, I
know that we're saved by grace. Why

(54:59):
does he keep saying that? Well, it's.
Because every time we talk about the
gospel, it's an opportunity for those who
have not heard it to respond to
it. And so you can either be
annoyed and frustrated with, like, man, he's
just going over the gospel again. We've
been over this before. We know this
already. Or you can be reminded every
time we talk about the gospel that
you're supposed to do something with it.

(55:20):
Right. Like you're Supposed to share it
with others, you're supposed to bring. So,
like the gospel and evangelism, it's the
same thing. It's just for those who
have heard, it now becomes evangelism. For
those who haven't heard, it's the gospel.

But I love that they're together.

All right, verse 13. But now in
Christ. And that, but now that's like
the little brother to God. Yeah, so
that's a, that's another awesome combination. Maybe
not as cool as, but God. But,
but right. Because it's talking about like
you were strangers, you were disconnected, you
weren't a part of this thing. But
now in Christ Jesus, come on. Every

(55:57):
time he says in Christ, I love
it. It's awesome. You who once were
far off have been brought near by
the blood of Christ. And that far
off language and close language like that's
repeated throughout the Old Testament, the prophets.
And basically it's saying those who are
far off, those were the Gentiles, because
God's here, Gentiles are way over there.

(56:17):
And so anytime it talks about being
far off, it's those who are just
not connected to God.

And something that I, that I, that
I read in my studies is that
it was kind of like common language
back then when somebody wanted to become
a Jew, you know, like by faith,
by faith, like you were a Gentile
and you were like, okay, I want
to become a Jew by faith. They
will not say, okay, you're one of
us. They will tell you, okay, we
can bring you near. Like, it is

(56:43):
not like you are, you're it. You're
being brought near. You know, you were
far off. Now you're gonna be brought
near. So this is language that they
would have understand. Like you were the
far off people. Now you're gonna be
brought near people.

Got it?

And you're brought near by the blood
of Christ. For he himself is our
peace, who has made us both one
and has broken down in his flesh.
The dividing wall of hostility. And so
understanding culturally, there was hostility between Jew
and Gentile, lots of hostility. And so
it's actually Paul's like reminding the Jews
that may be reading this letter, like,

(57:19):
hey, guys, like, what Christ did for
you, he did for them. And this
dividing wall has been removed. There used
to be a wall that divided, right?
Like it's, there's a barrier, there's a
boundary, and you have to be of
Israel in order to be part of
God. And now that boundary, that barrier
has been removed. And so for he
himself is our peace, who made us

(57:40):
Both one and has broken down in
his flesh the dividing of the wall
of hostility by abolishing the law of
commandments express in ordinances that he might
create in himself one new man in
place of two. So making peace. And
so basically saying, hey, the law, the
covenant that God had made. And the
law is what separated. Right. Like, even

(58:01):
when. When Moses brings the law, it's
to make a holy people, which holy
in that context is separate. Like he's
trying to isolate. Separate them. And so
what Christ does is Christ becomes the
fulfillment of the law. And it's the
understanding that we have is that the
law can't save us because none of
us can keep the law. Right. Like
that's for. For thousands of years they

(58:23):
had the law and nobody could follow
it perfectly. Yeah. And it's not even
just the Ten Commandments. It's all 613,
I think it is laws. Right. Like,
and it's just the. The man after
God's own heart, the. The greatest king
that Israel ever had couldn't keep him.
Right. Like if.

Right.

If. If Jeremiah the prophet can't keep
him. Like, there's literally no one in
scripture that could keep the law. Because
the law wasn't there to save you.
The law was there to point out
there's a difference between what you think
is white and clean and what actually
is. Yeah, right. Like God's holiness and
your attempts at holiness. You try all

(59:00):
you want, you're not going to get
there. And he allows that system to
be in place to illuminate for us
how much we need God to save
us. Right. That without the law, we
think we're good.

Yeah.

Like. Like how many people have you
talked to? They're like, well, you know,
I think I can go to heaven
because I'm a good person. And their
definition of good person and God's definition
of good person are two wildly different
things.

Yep.

Yes.

But until you have the law to
bring the contrast, then you don't know
what's going on.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And so he's abolishing the law of
commandments expressed in ordinances that he might
create himself one new man. So Christ
becomes the fulfillment of this. He fulfills
all the law. He's the only one
who actually fulfills all the laws. And
in doing so, he creates a path
for us that we can't complete the

(59:48):
law. But he did. Right. And so
he's the one that's bringing it together.
And then where are we at 15,
16, 17. And might reconcile us both
to God in one body. Through the
cross, thereby killing the hostility. So again,
this is Jew, Gentile, we're brought together.
He's just saying the same thing in

(01:00:10):
different ways. And then it says, and
he came and preached peace to you
who were far off and peace to
those who were near. So this is.
He's preaching the same message to both
Jews and Gentiles, the far off and
the close. And then it says, for
through him we both have access in

(01:00:30):
one spirit to the Father. And that's
like one of the big dividing points
between Jews and Gentiles. Even in the
early first century church, that when Gentiles
were coming to faith in Christ, there
was still a Jewish population that said,
awesome, we're so glad you're a part
of this thing now. Go get circumcised
now. Come have the, you know, the

(01:00:51):
Torah with us now. Come and have
the feast meal with us. Basically they
were saying, awesome, you're going to become
a Jew now.

Priti Idrovo (01:00:58):
Yeah.

Pastor Brent McQuay (01:00:59):
And Paul's like, hey, hey, even for
you Jews that are putting your faith
in Christ, you're no longer Jews. For
the Gentiles that are now putting their
faith in Christ, you're no longer Gentiles.
No, no, we are one. And it's
not that we all became one as
Jews, it's that we all became one
as Christians.

Pastor Sol McQuay (01:01:15):
And I think that something that is,
that is important too is the fact
that back then, like a very clear
mark of being, you know, of the
people of Israel was circumcision. You know,
like it was like a stamp, you
know, like that you belong to God.
But now in Christ is His Spirit.
His spirit is the one that is

(01:01:37):
marking all of us as being part
of him, you know, so, so I
think that is, that is, that is
very beautiful because it is nothing physically
that you can see, but it is
the state of your soul, like is
the Holy Spirit resting in us, that
it is making us one in Him.

Yeah, yeah.

And that's why, you know, you'll, you'll
read Paul also talk about how it's,
it's our fruit.

Yeah.

That identifies us and it's, it's the
fruit of the Holy Spirit that's at
work that actually shows people that we're
saved.

Yeah, I love that. All right, so
then can I just interject really quick?
Even that reading that the one, like
having being one in Christ, I was
thinking just my journey and just all
the people who are really searching for
truth. I think from. So what I
saw a lot is like, people want
a common thread. Like you, we talked

(01:02:28):
about the bumper sticker. You guys talked
about it last. Yeah, the coexist. And
I feel like that people do we
have the heart of, like we still
have his. What do we, his. His
morals in us. Right. Like we're made
in the image of God. So there's
something in humanity that wants to be
united, I think innately. And so finding

(01:02:50):
that common thread, that was my goal.
I was like, well, I could figure
out all these religions and then find
that common thread to make it one.
And so when I got saved, I
was just like mind blown because I
was like, Jesus is the one that
makes everybody come together into this one
common thing. And I love what you

(01:03:10):
said is that you don't have to
become Christian like a cult. You know
what I mean? Culturally. Like I think
Paul said that. Right. He's like, Jews
stay a Jew, like gentiles stay a
gentile, but you guys are now one
in Christ by the spirit.

Yeah. The thing that unites you is
not your nationality, your old heritage. No.
But what's so important about this is
that they are made one in Christ.
And so people that are looking for
that one thread that brings it all
together, you cannot have that outside of
Christ.

Right?

Yeah.

Like that only happens in Christ. And
so to go back to that coexist
bumper sticker, it's silly, right? Because the,
the reality is you, you. There's only
one way, right? All of these religions,
all of them point to God in
a different way. They can't all be.

(01:04:04):
Right, Right, right. And, and people that
are like, oh, you know, you know,
everybody just, we're all worshiping the same
deity. No, no, no. There's clear differences.
Right. There's, there's clearly the approach of
scripture and the approach of the Quran
are different. They're describing different or just
the plain spirituality. Right. Or just, well,

(01:04:27):
I'm going to be spiritual and I'm
just going to take things from all
of them. It's like all of those
ideas, I get the heart behind it
and I have empathy for people to
have that. The problem is two plus
two can only equal four.

Yeah.

And so if you think two plus
two equals five, we're not in unity.

Yeah.

Like there's a right and there's a
wrong. And yeah, it probably a bad
analogy just because I know somebody's gonna
be like, yeah, but you can also
have one plus three equals four. It's
like, okay, the problem is four is
Christ. Like you have to get to
Christ. So yeah. Anyways, that was kind
of a weird.

Tangent, but no I love how you
broke that down because it actually reminds
me of, like, even this scripture of,
like, the nationality, right? Jew or Gentile.
So if it's one plus or two
plus two or one plus three, you
could be those different, like, cultures. But
you're right, you still have to get
to four, which is Christ. So I
thought that was good.

All right, great analogy. So then you
are no longer strangers and aliens, but
you are fellow citizens with the saints
and members of the household of God.
So something beautiful about this language, and
I would love for Sol's perspective. She's
got a unique perspective on this, but
it's just this idea that both groups

(01:05:44):
have full access, right? Like, it's not
that some are outsiders, and it's like,
well, I'm a son of God, and
you're like a servant in the house,
right? Like, yeah, you're close, but you're
not family. And I think that there
was definitely a mentality at the time
in the first century of Jews, at

(01:06:06):
that point were even Jews that had
made, you know, messianic Jews that have
made Christ their Lord. There was still
this animosity that was happening. There was
still this, like, well, you guys are
lesser than. And Paul's coming in, and
he's like, no, no, we're all equal
in Christ.

Yeah.

And Brent says that I have a
unique. A unique take on it because
of. I am was born and raised
in Mexico. So Mexican by birth. Right.
And then I moved to the States,
and I got my. My little green
card which says in there that I
am an alien. Right. I am an
alien soul.

Absolutely.

I love that. I was like, look
at that. I am an alien. This
is what I've been looking for. Maybe
somebody's gonna give me more knowledge about
what we're supposed to do. Yeah. That's
basically what. What you are. You're an
alien of the United States.

Right?

So you're not native of the United
States. And I had my green card
for, I don't know, like, seven, eight
years before I applied for citizenship. And
the whole entire time I was legally
here, I was able to travel back
and forth. I was able to do
all the things, right? Like, I was

(01:07:25):
allowed to drive. I was allowed to
do work. I was allowed to. To
do everything.

You're allowed to pay taxes.

I was allowed to pay taxes. Praise
the Lord. I was. I was allowed
to do all of the things that
everybody else could do. But there was
this feeling of distance that I had,
right? Like, I was never. I never
felt like I could post a Happy
fourth of July, everybody. And have, like,
a, like, USA T shirt. It just.

(01:07:54):
It just felt like I'm just visiting
kind of thing. Like. Like I'm just
here kind of, like, adjacent to. Adjacent
to America.

Yeah.

Right. Even though I had all of
the legal right to be here, it
didn't feel like I was a part
of you. Like, I was a part
of the people. When I got my
citizenship, something. Something switched. And then all
of a sudden, I was proud to

(01:08:23):
be an American. You know, like, it
was just. It was. It was different.
It was like this sense of ownership
of, like, I am an American, like,
and I live in the States.

You celebrated the Fourth of July that
year in an American.

Like, I had like. Like. Like a.
Like, American flag, little stickers on my
nails. Like, it felt different. It felt
like an ownership of this country. Like,
I felt like I have a right
to this country and nothing really had
changed except for a paper. Right?

Yeah.

So I think that for me, this
is so telling, because Paul is saying,
you're not just here, like, adjacent to
everybody else. You have the same rights.
Like, you have the same name. Like,
you have the same ownership. You have
the same everything. Like, you can celebrate
Christ as much as the Jews can

(01:09:15):
celebrate the Messiah. You can wait for
the Messiah to come back as much
as they are waiting for the Messiah
to come back. Like, all of the
things. Like, you can feel like you're
a part of it. And I think
that for me, that just. It feels
different knowing how I felt when I
came.

Yeah.

I don't know how to explain it
any better. Like, I really felt like
I can do all of these things,
but I'm still not one of you.
And I think that Paul is saying,
you don't have to feel that way.
Like, I can still participate in communion
and I can still, you know, receive
salvation, but I'm still not a part
of you. He's saying, no, no, no,
you are part of this. Like, you

(01:09:54):
are 100% a part of this, and
you have that citizenship through Christ. And,
like, you are still a citizen of
heaven like everybody else. And that should
give you a different. A different ownership
of the kingdom. That should give you
a different ownership of. Of carrying the
name of Christ like everybody else. And
that should make you, like, stand. Stand

(01:10:15):
tall and say, like, yes, this is
me, too.

Yeah, I love that.

That's the thing that always breaks my
heart about Christians that don't appreciate the
Old Testament or don't love the Old
Testament, because it's like, I meet so
many Christians they're like, yeah, I just,
I read the New Testament only it's
like, oh, but you were brought into
something that's bigger than just the New
Testament. Like, you were, you were made
a part of the household of God,
and the Old Testament is part of
that story. And, and having an appreciation,

(01:10:41):
understanding of the Old Testament helps us
understand Paul. Like, Paul, Paul's writing. Like,
you're, you're missing out on so many
nuggets of wisdom in the New Testament
because you don't have the context of
that Old Testament scripture.

I actually had somebody a few weeks
ago come to me and, and like,
she was, she was newer and stuff,
but never, never read the, the Old
Testament before. And this person was asking
me, I just don't understand why Jesus
had to die. Like, I don't understand
the whole. He had to die and
like the blood and all of the
stuff. Like, I don't understand. So it

(01:11:14):
was when I was talking to, to
her about, you know, like, back in
the day, there was only one time
a year where you have to sacrifice
a lamb to be able to be
cleansed from your sins. So now Jesus
has taken the place. Like, I took
time to explain all of that. She
was like, oh, so sometimes we don't

(01:11:36):
even understand the sacrifice of Jesus, like
him dying on the cross and paying
for our sins. Because you don't know
how many generations have to wait for
the one day. Why, have to wait
for the atonishment of sin, have to
wait for the one person that could
actually give the sacrifice. You don't understand

(01:11:59):
all of that. So being able to
be brought into that family. Yeah, it's
just like, okay, read the Bible.

So yesterday we had an amazing time
in worship, and it really stemmed from
singing oh, come to the altar. But
if you don't appreciate the Old Testament,
if you don't read the Old Testament,
then to you, altar means that space
at the front of the church. True,
but that's not what the song is
about. Like, literally, the song is not
about coming to the front of the
church. No. The altar is the place

(01:12:28):
of sacrifice, and it's described repeatedly in
the Old Testament.

Yeah.

So, like, we're singing songs that if
we don't, if we don't recognize the
bigger picture, the bigger story, we're singing
words that we don't even understand.

Yeah, it's wild.

All right, let's close this thing out.
All right, where are we at? Verse
20?

Yes.

All right. So they're members of the
household of God built on the foundation
of the Apostles and prophets. Christ Jesus
himself being the cornerstone. So this is
a really important piece here because the
foundation of the apostles and the prophets
means that we're not a. Like, that's
why we still use the Old Testament.
Right? Like, if it wasn't built on
the foundation of the apostles and prophets,

(01:13:07):
then this would be a completely new
thing. It was like Jesus just showed
up out of nowhere and claimed to
be God. No, no, it's built on
the foundation of the apostles and prophets.
And so their message and when we
go through the Old Testament scriptures. And
that's why I love, you know, after
Jesus resurrects, he walks with a group
of his followers and teaches them, okay,
in the Old Testament here, that's me.

(01:13:28):
And over here. Yeah, that's me. And
over here. Yeah, that's pointing to me.
Like, he just walks them through the
scriptures, highlighting where he is. And so
that's what is so important for us
to understand is that there is a
foundation to the faith of a Christian.
And it actually doesn't begin with Jesus.
Now, Jesus is the cornerstone. It's the
main piece. But it's not just Jesus

(01:13:50):
in the Gospels. It's Jesus in Genesis.
It's Jesus in all of it. And
he's the foundation. He's the cornerstone. But
it's built around the apostles and the
prophets. So it's all one cohesive story.

Yeah, yeah.

All right. In him, in whom the
whole structure being joined together grows into
a holy temple in the Lord. In
him, you also are being built together
into a dwelling place for God by
the Spirit. And so I love just
this kind of close out to Paul's
thoughts because he kind of moves from
thought to thought. That's. We put in
the chapter breaks, not because Paul put

(01:14:23):
a chapter break, but because he clearly
was like, my thought is done now.
And so he's closing out this thought
of, okay, Jesus, he's with the prophets
and the apostles. He's built this foundation,
he's building this structure, this temple of
God. But then he's like, and your
life is doing the same thing, that
your body is becoming a dwelling place

(01:14:45):
for God. And it's the Holy Spirit
that's creating.

In you that lives in you, which
is so cool.

Like, you're living in me, you know?
But then that's where I get convicted,
because I'm like, okay, God, let me
take care of this temple.

Exactly.

Get this right for you. But that's
awesome.

And I think that if, when you
understand that piece, peace, it changes so
many things because I. I Think that
not everybody walks around with that awareness
of the fact that you are carrying
the presence of God in you. And
I think that if. If more people

(01:15:24):
were aware of that, we will see
more people praying for others because the
presence of God is with me. We
will see more people sharing the gospel
because the presence of God is with
me. We will see people that are
about to do foolishness. They will be
like, oh, but the presence of God
is with me. Right. Like, you're carrying
the presence of God in you. So

(01:15:46):
I think that it is very important.
Like, I remember growing up and like,
everybody always said, you know, like, would
you be doing this if Jesus was
sitting in the corner over there? Right.
Like, would you be doing this if,
you know, if Jesus was in the
room with you? Well, Jesus is in
me. Exactly. But Jesus is in us.
Like, the presence of God is in
us. So we don't have to just

(01:16:08):
imagine Jesus sitting on the couch or
Jesus being at the door. Like, it's
here. So we have to live with
that awareness that in everything that we
do, we are creating the presence of
God with us. So are we making
everything we do to glorify him or
are we making the presence of God

(01:16:30):
sad because of our actions and our
decisions and the way we live?

Yeah. God dwells in you. So not
only does God have see what you're
doing, he's got a front row seat
to what you're doing, which is very
sobering. But. No, but this is, you
know, this is supposed to be uplifting
and hope filled because that's. That's what
the message of Christ is. It's that
man, it's not just that he's judging
you for all the things that you're
doing or looking to like, hey, don't

(01:16:56):
do that. No, it's. The Holy Spirit
is dwelling within you, which means everything
that you face, you're not alone. Yep.
It means when. When there's struggles, you're
not the only one fighting it. It
means when. When God's got a task
for you that work and you're like,
God, that is way too big. That's
too much for me. I don't think
I can handle that one. It's like,
yeah, no, you can't. But I'm with
you. It's okay. I'm gonna take up

(01:17:19):
the slack.

Yeah.

Yeah. For me, that's been like a
game changer, honestly. Because, well, even just
my background, like how we practice worship
with like, statues and things like that,
but now I'm like, wow, like, there's
A spirit of God that's living inside
of me. And it's the spirit of
Jesus. And it. It's a game changer
for me because it's like, I'm never
alone. Loneliness gone. I'm never alone. I

(01:17:43):
have the Lord with. I. I could
do things that I thought I could
never do. And I'm like, well, I
have the power of God in me.
Or even just, I mean, little things
right, where you're, like, feeling a little
sick or whatever you're feeling. You're like,
no, I got. I got the life
of God inside of me. And so
it. For me, that's so encouraging and
empowering, that awareness that you said. I'm

(01:18:04):
knowing that. Yeah, that's pretty cool. Yeah.

All right, so that was Ephesians, chapter
two.

Let's do pretty awesome.

On to three.

Yeah.

Here we go.

Any. Any closing thoughts?

Yeah. No.

I don't know. I think that it
is important for all of us to
just understand the. The grace of God.
I think that that has been, for
me, the. The biggest piece of this
week is just understanding that God gives
us so much that we don't deserve.

(01:18:36):
So much goodness, so much life, abundant
life, and just being grateful and just
receiving that because he gives it freely.
So I think that just living in
that grace is. Is necessary. Yeah.

Yeah.

That's cool.

I love that.

What about you? What is your takeaway?

Man, that's a great question. There's so
much in Ephesians 2 that I love.
I'm trying not to just go back
to our family verse just because that's.
That's the one that's, like, in my
head, I'm also like, we're saved by
grace through faith, not by works that
no man can boast. Like, that's my
go to verse for evangelism, sharing the

(01:19:21):
gospel. But, man, I think I want
to. I want to just camp out
in the. The past tense nature of
the opening four or five verses of
Ephesians. Not even just the walked and
lived, but the saved. That my salvation

(01:19:42):
is also past tense, which means it's
not something I have to worry about.
It's done. It's already been accomplished. You
have been saved. Not you could be
saved. Not you might be saved. No,
no, you have been saved. The moment
you put your faith in Christ by
doing everything that he talks about there,
that it's by faith or by grace

(01:20:04):
through faith. Right? That means that there's
an assurance of salvation and there's. There's
a lot of. Of challenges in the
world. There's a lot of things going
on that bring confusion or bring doubt
or bring worry, but your salvation never
has to be one of those things.

Yeah.

Yeah.

You were saved.

It already happened.

What about you?

So the two words I think of
is clarity and confidence.

Okay.

Like, even. Like what you said with
gratitude. It's like, okay, I'm. The confidence
of my identity in Christ, what he
did for me, how he's living in
me, and that's like, how I want
to walk. And then even just the
clarity of, oh, this is what that
means. This is what grace means. This
is what it means that I'm now
grafted in, in Christ. So just. Even

(01:20:54):
the way Paul breaks it all down,
that. That's for me, it's. It makes
it clear who I am in Christ.

That's cool.

Yeah. Identity. Yeah.

Awesome. All right, well, I guess that's.
That's it for this episode of Between
Sermons. We will be back next week
diving into Ephesians, chapter three, which I'm
excited about. It's also the last, really,
chapter that just focuses on doctrine. Right.
So there's. There's. We're basically going to
present the gospel one more time, and

(01:21:24):
we're gonna focus on the cross a
bunch next week because Paul does, and
then we get to dive into what
do we do as a result. So
it's gonna be good. It's gonna be
a good couple of weeks, but, yeah,
in the meantime, make sure you, like,
subscribe. Do all the things that Taisha
always tells you to do. I'm not
a social media person. I don't know
how that stuff works. It's like comments

(01:21:44):
and likes. Makes algorithms the one that
do things. I don't even know what
algorithms are. What is that? Anyways, do
the things that you need to do.
Share this with a friend, a neighbor,
a co worker, somebody. But yeah, get
in a group. Make sure that you're
talking through this stuff, because we want
to become disciples of Jesus Christ, and
that doesn't happen by watching a podcast.

(01:22:06):
Sadly, that actually happens when you get
involved in other people's lives and you
can help strengthen them and encourage them,
and they can do the same for
you. So use this as a resource,
but get into a group. Group and
see what God can do in your
life through that. Love, y'all. God bless,
and we'll see you next time.

We're good. Okay. Great job.

That was a good conversation.

Yeah.

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