Living the Call: How to Walk Worthy of Your Purpose

Episode Transcript
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Ariane Ogunlana (00:00):
Foreign.

Pastor Brent McQuay (00:10):
Welcome to another episode of Between Sermons.
My name is Brent McQuay. I am
the lead pastor of Disciples Church. And
what we do here on this podcast
is we turn the monologue from. From
Sunday's sermon into a dialogue where we
can actually, you know, have some back
and forth, ask some questions. Best way
you can view this is like you're
getting a glimpse into a small group

(00:32):
discussion from the Sunday message. And so,
as always, you didn't have to have
watched the sermon in order to get
something out of this conversation, but it
would help. And so if you'd like
to watch the sermon, there will be
a link to that in the show
notes. But today is a very special
day because Tyesha is out. So instead
I am joined by the one and
only Ari. How you doing?

Hi. I'm good. How are you?

I'm doing fantastic. And you are now
how many months pregnant?

Seven.

Seven. So you're coming on the home
stretch. First child, how you feeling?

I am feeling very excited, I think,
you know, just the entire process has
been so smooth. No sickness, so we
thank God for that. So just really
excited to see her and get to
know her.

Pastor Carlton McCarthy (01:16):
We're excited.

Yeah.

Carlton today.

Yeah. Carlton has been asking her to
come for a long time.

Well, Kelsey decided to come. My daughter
decided to come at eight months. So,
you know, you got a few weeks.

Yeah.

Who knows?

We're trying to get everything in. So
pray for us as we're doing nursery,
baby shower, all of the things.

So very cool.

And your eight hour lamaze class this
weekend.

We didn't get to go.

Okay, so we have to do that
on purpose.

He said it's how many hours?

Suckers.

So upset. But it's okay. It's okay.
It's rescheduled.

Good job, Ola. It's rescheduled. He can't
get out of this.

No, he has to go.

So. So yeah. So we're here to
talk about Ephesians, chapter four.

Absolutely.

And who do we have joining us?

We have pastor Carlton. He's a great
recurrent guest of the teen sermon, so
we're very excited to.

Have him when they can't find anyone.

Well, no, actually, the funny thing in
this. In this episode. So Tyisha saw
my sermon notes and saw the things
that we're talking about, and she was
like, I think I need Carlton for
this one.

Yeah.

So you were actually to say, I
don't know. I don't know who she
bumped, but she bumped somebody and. And
dragged you into this.

So you're another resident Bible Guy, you,
I guess, pretty scholarly when it comes
to the word.

Just read it and just recite it.
So that's scholarly then, I guess.

What is the verse perspective? So it's
good. So we're happy.

My perspective is the Holy Spirit. What
does the word say?

So since we're here, let's recap yesterday's
message. So we talked about Ephesians 4.
So, Pastor Prince, do you want to
start?

Yeah, so, so we're, we're in a,
a series where we're just walking through
the book of Ephesians each week. We're
taking one week for each chapter. And
honestly, in our, in our sermon planning,
when we got to chapter four, we
did have an honest conversation about, like,
can we really get through all of
chapter four in one day? Like, should
this be like a two part? At
one point they were like, you should

(03:23):
preach like it at 9 o'clock and
the other half at 11 o'clock and
just make it like a two parter
within the same Sunday. And I was
like, I don't think I can do
that. Because we, we, I literally, we
brought like two versions of the message.
It was like, I can focus on
the first half or I could focus
on the second half.

You wrote the sermon twice.

Yeah. And then the team was like,
you know what if you just like
put them together and just preached for
a.

While Because I, I argued one of
them. And as I was arguing one
of them, I was like saying like,
well, maybe you should preach the one
that I'm arguing against.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I was like, I convinced myself in
the argument.

Yeah. So the conclusion was just do
both. And I was like, but that's,
you know, the way I preach, that's
like probably two hours worth of teaching.
So, yeah, so we had to condense
things because basically when you get to
chapter four, what I love about Ephesians,
we've talked about this before a little
bit that Paul writes six chapters, but
he like clearly defines the two sections.

(04:19):
Like, it's like his first three chapters
are all about our belief system. And
really it's about what the triune God
has done. So he goes into detail
of God's role, the Holy Spirit's role,
Jesus role, and it just goes into
grace and love and blessings and all
of these things that God has done
for us for three chapters. And then

(04:39):
all of a sudden he has like
the biggest like, pivot, I think, in
probably all of Scripture, where it's like
three chapters of all in one direction.
And then he throws in the word
Therefore, and then 4, 5, and 6,
he just lays into. Because we believe
this, we're going to behave this way.

Right.

And so he lays out 40 imperatives
throughout the book. I've mentioned in the
message. Like, only one of those 40
imperatives actually falls in the first three
chapters. In chapter three, he just says,
don't lose heart over me being in
prison for the gospel. Like, this is
only instruction. But then the other 39
commands come in that second half with

(05:14):
15 of them coming in chapter four.
So chapter four, the whole breakdown is
basically it's walk in a manner worthy
of the calling. Like, if. If you
wanted to just. What is chapter four?
In one sentence, it's walk in a
manner worthy of the calling, which is
in verse one. But then he defines
what that walk looks like through all

(05:35):
of these other commands. So we're going
to. We're going to do these different
things. We're going to take off the
old man, we're going to put on
the new man. We're going to be
conscious of the words that are coming
out of our mouths, and we're not
going to be lying, and we're not
going to be stealing. And we're like,
in order to walk in this manner,
there's some things that we have to
stop doing, and there's some things that
we need to start doing. And so,
yeah, chapter four is just kind of
a walk through all of that.

Yeah.

Anything you'd add to that, Girl?

No, no, no. Yeah. I just. I
really love Paul's writing, like, how he
writes and just walks you through the
story of behavior, you know, from. And
just the beginning of it, telling us
that we have a calling. Like, if
you miss it in the first three
chapters, he starts chapter four by saying,

(06:20):
you have a calling.

Yeah.

And then he walks us through the
behavior that we need to have when
we have this calling. But it's like,
okay, here's the reminder. It's not just
about the behavior. It's the fact that
God has called me for service in
the kingdom. He's called me to be
a part of the body of Christ,
to be unified as a gentile with
Jews. And it's like, oh, yeah, I
forget about. Like, we, you know, we
just went through it the first three

(06:42):
chapters. But it's just a reminder, like,
this behavior is not for behavior's sake.
The behavior that God wants us to
have is because we have a calling.

Yeah. Yeah.

That's good. Have you ever felt unworthy
of the calling that God has placed
on your life?

Have I ever not?

Have, like, how do you get through
that?

Yeah, that's. That's a hard one. You
have to trust God's process. And I've.
Pastor Chris preached a sermon where she
said that the hardest thing for believers
to, I guess, to understand or to
receive is to know that or to
be confident that God loves us. And
so I have to decrease the fact

(07:21):
that I think that I'm unworthy and
rely on his love for me. Like,
he has made me worthy through Christ
Jesus. Therefore, I need to have confidence
in that. If I'm. If I'm confident
that I have salvation, that I have
salvation and that I'm a. A believer,
I'm a child of God, then I
have to remove the fact that I
think that I'm unworthy. Because if I

(07:42):
think that I'm unworthy and operate in
that, then I remove the fact that
God has saved me.

Yes.

And so, like, I. So both can't
be true. So I have to remove
the fact that I'm. I feel like
I'm unworthy.

Yeah. I would say the. The nuance
that I would. I would drop on
it is, um, I recognize that I'm
not worthy. Like, that's. It's not even
this. Like, oh, man, I'm not worthy
of this. It's. No, I'm not worthy
of it.

Right.

Like, that's kind of the whole point.
Like, but in Christ. And that's. And
I think that's why Paul reuses that
language of in Christ so much in
the first three chapters, that it, you
know, Brent, on his own, totally not
worthy. Brent, on his own. Can't. Can't
do this walk. Like, I'm. I'm going
to fail. But Brent, in Christ, I

(08:27):
mean, when. When I keep going back
to chapter three, but, like, when all
of the fullness of God dwells within
you when he's praying this prayer that
the Father would strengthen you through the
Spirit so that Christ would dwell within
you. Like, when we get chapter three,
it leads us to, okay, I can't
walk in a manner worthy, but Christ
in me can.

Yeah, right. Yeah, that's good.

And he operates in our week. I'm
sorry.

No, you're.

He operates in our weakness, though the
moment we think we are worthy, we
are completely disqualified.

I think it's a dangerous place to
be. Like, I got this.

Like, yes. Like, no, we have to
come to Christ. We have to come
to God in our unworthiness. And that's
how he operates in us and through
us.

So, yeah, for those who are listening,
though, that don't know how to hear
from the Lord on the calling that
they. He has placed on their life.
How do they do that first to
even get to combating the feelings of
being unworthy?

So, so how does someone hear the
call?

Yeah. So, like, how do you know
what the call on your life is?

I. I think these are hard questions.

No, this is fantastic. I love these
questions. I think you start with the
calling that's on every Christian's life.

Okay.

Right. So the. The calling is to.
To glorify God and. And to draw
others to Christ. Like, to. To be
an evangelist. Like, that is the call
of every disciple of every Christian. Like,
your life is supposed to point people
to God. So whatever you need to
do in order to glorify God and
whatever you need to do to get
others to glorify God, start there.

Yeah.

And then pick up your Bible.

Okay.

That's where you figure all that stuff.

And I also think that God has
put things in you already. Passions, desires,
skill sets, abilities. That it. Like, you
know, I talk to people who have
a passion or desire to do something,
and I say, you didn't conceive that
you're. You're. It didn't. The inception of
that thought of that desire didn't come
from you.

You just wake up one day and.

Be like, yeah, right. It's like that
was placed in you by God.

Yeah.

When he created you. And so that
may have something to do with the
direction that God wants you to go
in.

Because Ephesians 2:10, he created a work
for you to do.

Yes.

And then he created you.

Yes.

So which means long ago, you're designed
for the work.

Yes. Right.

Okay.

And it didn't happen when you turn
30. He said it happened long ago.

What do you do when you get
distracted? Oh, like, you can know that.
You can know what you're supposed to
do. You can know the skills that
God has put inside of you. But
when you get distracted from that and
it feels like, man, I can't figure
this out. What do you do then?

Yeah, I think especially for believers. I
had a conversation with a young lady
yesterday, and she kept telling me that
she felt like God was pulling her
back into a direction that she needs
to go in. I had a conversation
with a gentleman the other day with
the same thing. It's like God keeps
telling me to come back to this
thing, even though life is distracting. Career,
family, work, even his own desires that

(11:26):
are separate from what he thinks that
God has called him to.

Or.

Or with. With. With anything. It's like,
I think that for believers, we have
the privilege to have the Holy Spirit
in us. That's kind of like nudging
us back over to the direction that
God wants us to be flowing in
and living in. So, yeah, I think
that's one way that we can, you
know, try to mitigate or avoid distraction

(11:51):
and try to get back on course
for what God has called us to
do. I mean, and the other thing
is, too, is. Is doing the work
of God, like doing work in ministry,
whether it's your small group or going
to church or, you know, doing evangelism,
talking to people about the word of
God. You will find yourself refocused and
the distraction starts to fall away as

(12:11):
you're doing the work of God, and
you'll. You'll find yourself back in the
lane that God wanted you to be
in.

That's good. You know, I asked those
questions because I hear all the time
from my peers of, as I get
older and I'm adding these different titles
of wife and mom and whatever my
career is, it is so hard to
stay focused on what I feel like
God told me when I was 15
or when I felt like he told
me something when I was 20. And

(12:38):
so being in your 30s and your
40s, like, trying to maintain what the
calling is with all of these different
things that get added to you as
you get older, it can be really
difficult.

For sure. Yeah.

Yeah. I think that, you know, because
we. We know what or we are
like when we become adults, we think
that we know the path for our
lives, right? We get educated, we find
a career, we find a spouse, we
have children, we build for retirement, we
retire, we give our inheritance to our
children, and we go see Jesus. And

(13:11):
it's like we've created that life plan
for ourselves. And maybe because we live
in a Western society, we live in
America, that that becomes the plan for
everyone. Like, everyone is following that track.
But I. I think that God has
created family for us. He's created career
and business for us to get into.
But I think the one thing that
we need to do is make sure

(13:32):
that God is priority over all things,
that we're living life through Christ and
not just as Christ as a partner
with us in the things that we've
decided to do. But if we're living
life through Christ and we make sure
that he's the priority, that He's. He's.
He's the God and not our families
is our God or our careers our

(13:52):
God or our business is our God,
I think what happens is that he's
able to incorporate those things that he's
allowed us to build in the thing
that he wants us to do. And
so we do ministry with our family,
we do ministry at the office or
in our business. We become so God
focused that the things that we find
ourselves doing or we end up doing

(14:13):
fall under Christ. And when we live
our lives through Christ, those things aren't
necessarily a hindrance or a distraction, but
they become a resource for us in
order to do the work of God.
And I just think that we can
have all these things, but as long
as we're living our lives through Christ,
he can take care of that and
teach us how to incorporate that in

(14:34):
the ministry work that he wants us
to do.

That's good.

I think a lot of it just
comes to that kind of, that shift
of a focus, maybe that thought shift
of what's my intentionality in this? Because,
like, I can be really busy with
like, you know, taking my kid to
soccer practice and running here and running
there, or I can, I can recognize,
okay, every time he's at the soccer
field, I'm surrounded by people that I
can be sharing the gospel with. Every
time I've got to drive him to

(14:59):
a tournament, that I've got time in
the car where I can actually be
talking to him about a faith or
I could be listening to a podcast
that's helping me grow in my faith,
you know, so, like, start using those
distractions, the busyness, and start using them
for God's glory. And I think when
you start shifting that, then we realize
that, hey, you know, I may be
working a job 9 to 5 to

(15:19):
get a paycheck, but while I'm there,
I can also be doing things for,
for the kingdom.

That's good. Now, Pastor Brent, you mentioned
an evangelist and like, like that being
a part of the calling. We talked
about yesterday in verse 11 that there
is a five fold ministry. So, you
know, I have. What is your take?

Yeah, I'm going to make a lot
of friends with this, with this episode.
Sorry. So I have the Bible on
my phone today. Taisha would be so,
so upset with me right now because
I gave her so much garbage for
not having her Bible. I left my
ESV study Bible at my house and
then I have two ESV study Bibles,
both of them at my house. I

(16:02):
have three or four study Bibles here
at the church and none of them
are esv. So I was like, I
was looking through the shelf and I
was like, oh, whoops.

I started to bring My Bible. But
I heard last week's podcast. I'm like,
no, I'm not going to do that.

Yeah. So I gave Taisha a hard
time for not having hers and now
here I am pulling it up on
my.

Version is the best Bible.

Hey. Yeah, so verse 11, I hinted
at being. I might have a controversial
take.

Let's hear it.

The, the interesting that I was talking
with a group of guys after service
and it wasn't controversial for them. And
so maybe it's not for our listeners,
but yeah, so, so verse 11 says,
and he gave the apostles, the prophets,
the evangelists, the shepherds and teachers. So
people take that and they make it
the fivefold ministry. I have a couple
of problems. One is even just defining

(16:54):
it as the fivefold ministry where in,
in the Greek the last two shepherd
and teacher is like a hyphenated. It's.
It's one title. So if you want
to be. Yeah, if you want to
be like literal. It's a fourfold ministry,
not a fivefold ministry. Because the, the
pastor and teacher is one person.

Right.

My other issue is that in the
same book, in, I think it's in
chapter two of Ephesians, Paul talks about
how the apostles and the prophets were
for the foundation of the church.

Yes. And Christ the cornerstone.

And Christ is the cornerstone. The prophets
and the apostles were the foundation. So
when he gets to this portion, I
have a hard time taking this and
being like, okay, so 2,000 years later,
we're still building the foundation of the
church. So.

And apostle has a very particular definition
from a biblical standpoint. And so yeah,
you have to include apostle into a
five fold ministry because of the criteria
to become an apostle per the Bible.

Yeah. So per the Bible to. To
be an apostle. And there is an
exception to this rule. And that's where
some that really love. So I want
to be favorable to people that differ
from this. So but the, the general
consensus is. And, and basically the. Sorry,
I'm trying to formulate the thought. Some
will argue that there's two types of
apostles, that there's the apostle that follows

(18:23):
the mandated biblical definition, Office of the
office of apostleship. And then there's like
lesser than apostles. Yes. So they'll argue.
And so they would probably listen to
me like, well, Brent's totally missing it
because there's two different things. Okay. So
if you go with the first definition
though, an apostle had to be a
witness of the resurrected Christ, you had

(18:46):
to be chosen by the Holy Spirit
by name, and you had to be
a part of the planting of or
the starting of the church.

And it's an and not an or.

Right. You had to do all. All
three of those had to be true.
Like, if one of those is not
true, you're not an apostle.

Right.

The only possible. Except there's. There's a
couple of names in the New Testament
where the Greek title of apostle, sometimes
it's not translated as apostle, but the
original Greek word is the same that
we translate to apostle. For a couple
people that we don't know that they
fit that criteria.

Okay.

Because we.

Matthias, who replaced Judas.

So Matthias replacing Judas would be considered
canonical. Like, correct. Like in the. In
the original. Just because he was present.

Okay.

And so. But there are some other.
So like.

Barnabas.

Barnabas. Thank you. I was about to
say Bartholomew, and I'm like, not him.

We're talking about the Simpsons earlier.

That's the problem. So. Yeah. So Barnabas
is referred to, I think once as
an apostle, but we don't know whether
or not he was present for the.
The resurrection. We don't know that he
wasn't. It doesn't say that he wasn't.

Or if he had the exception of
Paul, who had a visitation by Jesus.

So. So Paul is an apostle because
he witnessed the resurrected Christ.

Right.

Which is the criteria.

Right.

So we don't know if Barnabas. And
that's basically. It's. It's almost like an
argument from silence. We just. We don't
know whether Barnabas fit the criteria. We
could assume that he did since he
was given the title. But then there's
also a couple other, like, lesser known
people. And I can't even remember in
one of Paul's letters, he refers to
them as apostles.

Yeah.

And we just don't know anything about
them. So I guess my argument would
be. And this is where I'm gonna
get hate mail after this one. I
don't think that apostle is a title
that should be used today.

Okay.

More of missionary or.

Yeah.

Some kind of church planter.

Missionary. Evangelist. Yeah. So. Because. Because what.
What I've seen in Chicagoland and this.
This is one of those things where
it's. I think it's a bigger thing
here than in a lot of other
places, at least from. From my experiences.
Like, I didn't run into any apostles
when I was living in Colorado, but
I've run into probably 85 apostles in
Chicago. And it just. I think that

(21:04):
they'll use the title to signify that
they are planting churches or starting churches
or starting works. And so they would
say, well, I fit in with the
apostleship. And I know. Look, if. If
you're listening and you have the title
of apostle, I love you. I do.
I think we're brothers in Christ. I
just.

Yeah, but it's the foundation of the
body of Christ or the church.

Yeah.

You versus I'm launching a campus.

Right.

Or I'm planting a church in another
town or city or whatever.

Like Pastor Jerry McWay. My father has
planted lots and lots of churches through
his work with our congregation in the
Philippines and through our ministry in India.
And so, I mean, hundreds of churches
have been planted because of Jerry McWay.
But he would never be like, start
calling me Apostle Jerry.

Like, he's not building the foundation of
the. Of Christianity or the church.

So. So. Yeah, so I guess my.
My objection to the whole thing is
one, based on language, it would have
to be a fourfold ministry, not a
five fold ministry. Two of those offices
are referred to as building the foundation
of the church, which the. The foundation's
built. Like we're. We're done with that
part. We're. We're decorating the home now.

So.

Yeah, so that's not an ap. Not.
What do you do with opinion.

The prophet.

Yeah.

And the profit was included as.

As part of that foundation. Yeah. That's
where it's like. And that's why I
have, like, I started off. I got.
I got grace for. For people that
are using these titles. Prophet Dennis Kramer
is one of our board of overseers.
He's. He probably texts me more than
the rest of the board. Love Denny.
And I've got no problem calling him
a prophet because he's.

He.

He's operated in that gift in such
a way that I recognize it on
him.

So I'm gonna. I'm gonna. Not that
I don't agree with you, but I'm
gonna push back. What about the. Our
final authority is the word of God.

Yeah.

And so what do we do with
a prophet who is. And I'm saying
this. I'm not saying that a prophet
has ever said this, but a prophet
giving us the final authority from the
voice of God through them.

Yeah. I think that even Denny would
be like, no, no, no word of
God has final authority. I could say
something and be wrong, you know, like,
my prophetic word is not infallible.

Right.

Yes.

Now I. I believe that I'm speaking.
I'm speaking as him.

Like, I believe I'm from.

But yeah.

The authority of the Bible, If.

If anybody ever receives a prophetic word
that goes against scripture, then that was
not prophetic. That was. That was not
that. And that's where, like we talked
about in the message a little bit,
like, we have to be mature. We've
got to have an understanding of scripture.
We've got to be around other believers
that can check us on stuff. Because

(23:55):
when we're immature, we can hear the
devil and think it's God.

Right.

So we can say, I got this
prophetic word and it contradicts scripture. I
mean, that's how you end up with,
you know, Mormonism and Islam and like,
all these really, when you take things
and you twist them, we just have
to be careful there. So.

So as someone reading Ephesians 4, verse
11, and you're seeing all of this
in today's context, in today's culture, even
just being in Chicagoland church culture, like,
what do you do with that? Like,
when you are. You see. Maybe. Okay,
well, I may have some similarities to
what we would say an evangelist is
or a prophet is. And so, like,

(24:35):
how do you deal with that as
you're trying to figure out your place
in the body?

And I think even. Even like the
apostles that I'm friends with, and I
am friends with guys that use the
title apostle, I think they would even
say for the average person, there's a
difference between an office and a gift.
Right. So you could operate prophetically and
not get the title of prophet.

Yes, right.

And I think that sometimes we are
too quick to give somebody a title
based on a gifting. Like, I've given
a prophetic word before. I ain't a
prophet. Right. The Holy Spirit does stuff
like whenever he wants to, however he
wants to. But I'm not putting that
on. My email signature or my business
card isn't going to say Prophet Brent.
And I'm sure I've given some prophetic

(25:19):
words that I think were accurate and
came to pass. But that's a gift
that happens, not necessarily a title. And
so I think people just need to
be careful when you start chasing a
title you've already broken. Walk in a
manner worthy of the calling in all
humility. The moment you're chasing a title,

(25:40):
you've kicked out humility you've already broken.

It's what, the second and third verse
of the chapter.

It's literally the second verse.

Second verse.

And so. Or no, maybe it was
part of the first verse, but it's
in that first section. Like, it is
the descriptor for walk in a manner
worthy of calling, walk in humility with
gentleness and patience. And so if you
are Chasing a title. That's not humility,
that's pride.

That's good.

And we also got to be sure
not to take culture as our biblical
beliefs or our doctrine for our faith.
Like, we have to understand that just
because we're living in this time, in
this moment in humanity's history, it may
not be the perfect reflection of our
faith as an entire body of Christ.

(26:30):
Like, how many seasons or segments of
time or, you know, did believers believe
in Christ over these last 2000 years?
Like, where are we in perfecting our
theology and our doctrine? And a lot
of times we allow culture to drive
us, thinking that we are in the
most perfect place and believing in the
word of God or that our faith

(26:52):
is also the foundation of our faith
is. Has an influence from the culture
that's around us as well. And just
because our current church culture has told
us something, it doesn't mean that we
are correct when it comes to the
totality of faith. And so we have
to be really careful of that, because
you never know. In 500 years, we
may have a better understanding or better

(27:13):
interpretation or through more study and research
of. Of where we should be as
believers. And we may look back at
this time and say, man, we were
off just a little bit in some
of these places because culture drove what
we believe.

Yeah, yeah. And I would just probably
just add to this conversation, man, I'm
given lots of grace within this one.
I do not hold my interpretation of
Ephesians 4:11 with a closed fist. Like,
that is open hand kind of theology.
Because at the end of the day,
and this is why we kind of

(27:47):
skipped over it in the message, it
was like, I don't want get people
hung up on verse 11. When verse
12 is the one that applies to
literally everyone. It's like 11. It may
or may not apply to a small
group of people. Right. Because that was
the understanding that not Everybody is these
five fold things, fourfold things. But verse

(28:11):
12 is for all the saints. Right?
And so, like, our emphasis, our focus
really should be, hey, I just, I
want to get verse 12 right. Like,
I want to make sure that I'm
doing what I'm supposed to do to
do the work of the ministry and
to build up the body of Christ.
Because that's verse 12.

That's good. Okay, speaking of verse 12,
so in your message overall, you talked
about 15 imperatives and just the entire
chapter of what we're supposed to do.
Is there anyone that resonates with you
right now and why Jesus?

Yeah, so we're talking about this in
our staff meeting a little bit ago
where everybody kind of jumped in with
different ones and man, I could probably
say all 15 of them, just like
everybody else does. But in this season
that we're in right now, I think
it's number six, if I remember the
numbering right. Number six talks about being
renewed in the spirit of your mind.

(29:07):
And I think for me in this
place, like, I've had to do a
lot of like, mental battles. We've had
some hard decisions to make. We've had.
We're still in the process of trying
to figure out some things. I mean,
one of those mental things right now
is if you come to church at
the 11 o'clock service, you're like punching

(29:28):
out your neighbor, trying to find a
seat. Like, it's just, it's just, it's
chaos. It's chaos. And so it's like,
okay, what's the, what's the solution to
this? How do, how do we get
a few more people to go to
the nine? And that's not going to
be a long term solution. We probably
have 50 empty seats at 9 and
0 at 11. But like, so how
do we, how do we continue growing
as a church when we have, you

(29:49):
know, space issues, physical limitations, we got
a parking lot that's too small for
the building. We've crammed in as many
chairs as we can possibly fit into
that auditorium. Like, we've done all the
things that we can do easily and
now it's time to make some harder
decisions. Either harder because of the finances
behind it or harder because of the
volunteers behind it and the staff behind
it. And so, you know, there's a

(30:11):
lot of decision making right now. There's
decisions that I've had to make that
I'm, you know, constantly in this. Like,
okay, did I make the right decision
there? Are we doing the right thing?
And so I've, I've found myself in
this mental place where like, if I'm
not careful, all of a sudden it's
like the only thought you've had has
been negative for the last three hours.
Like, can we, can we swap that

(30:32):
out for like a positive thought? And
then stuff in my personal life with
family and kids and everything, it's just
like the, the winning the war in
your mind is kind of the.

So you don't just rage out and
go nuts.

Like, I don't, like, you know, the,
the. What was that number? Like 12
or 13 on the list? Maybe 11.
I don't know about anger. No, no.
Bitterness and wrath. I was 14. You
know, I think I'm doing all right
there, you know, for the most part.
I did have a moment where, man,
my. My junior high son was being
a very junior high boy. I'm like,

(31:09):
oh, you got to stop it. Dad's
fuse is getting shorter. So, yeah, I
think the reality is we're all working
on all 15 of them. But if.
If you were to say, as I
said yesterday, you know, ask the Holy
Spirit, what's the one you need to
be working on? As I was working
on this message that was the one
that just kept popping back up.

It was like, okay, that's your thoughts.

That's a good one.

Fix your stinking thinking.

Yeah, I resonate with that a lot.
Like we mentioned, like, I'm expecting a
baby, and so there's just so much
anxiety. Especially, like, as I'm getting to
the end. Like, lately the thought has
been, hey, you probably shouldn't be driving.
Like, your stomach is going to get
bigger. Like, you don't want to get
into an accident. And then something happens.
And so it's just been this constant

(31:52):
thing. And I feel like the Holy
Spirit has been reminding me, like, have
I not carried you your whole life?
Have I not promised you this? And
so you need to renew your thinking
and stop worrying about that because I
have you. So I agree with that
one.

That. That first baby. That's. That's a.
That's the scary one.

It's never.

You're gonna be like, no, he only.

He stopped at once.

God only gave me grace for one.

By the time you get to that
third kid, you're just like. And, you
know, whatever happens.

Yeah. Someone told me God gives you
grace after you have the children. You
have to have the children by faith,
and then he gives you the grace
for them. I'm like, I don't know.
I don't have faith in that.

So, yeah, that's a scary thought. Cuz
then you'll get to like, child 10
and.

Okay, when is the great stop.

Great stop for us at three. It
was dumb.

Are you asking me the same question
or no? No. Okay. Yes, you are.

Yes, I am.

I'll pull up the list.

What number am I? I think it
was. I know it's verse 17. 17
through 19. I think it's number four
on the list.

No longer walk as Gentiles do.

Yes. Because of something about lustful pleasure.

Yeah.

Yeah. I think it's verse 17 or
19 or both that talks about that.
Don't no longer walk as Gentiles do.
And this is Something that, like, you
know, in my. My journey, in my
faith, I had to realize, like it
says, lustful pleasure. But a lot of
times, like, the. The pleasures of life
that we like, that we want to

(33:23):
consume when we become believers, when we
come to know Christ. And the Holy
Spirit kind of guides us out of
those worldly pleasures. Like, a lot of
times it's like, man, like, it's hard
being saved because I want to do
these things. And the Holy Spirit had
to ask me one day, is it
pleasant pleasure or is it sin? Because

(33:44):
it's like the pleasure that you're calling
pleasure is not pleasure.

Yeah.

It's sin because there's pleasures. In my
faith in Christ, the pleasures that he
gives me is far beyond anything that
I can ever experience in this world
or that the world could give me.
And so I had to, like, refocus
or retrain my thought or. The definition
of lustful pleasure.

Yeah.

Because I made it innocent.

Yep.

Like, but God, I like to eat.
Fry as much fried chicken as possible.

Just desire. Yeah, it's just. God, it's
just, you know, we call that gluttony.

Yeah. Yes, exactly. It's like. Well, the
Holy Spirit was like, carlton, is it
pleasure or is it sin? So let's
retrain your thoughts. Let's. Let's change the
definition you have for some of these
things that you desire. And let's call
it what it is, because you can
actually find pleasure in me. Greater pleasure
than any piece of fried chicken would

(34:37):
ever give you, man. And so let's
just.

Pouring so much conviction on me right
now. I had sharks for lunch yesterday
after church.

That's a good one. That sounds tasty.

But, I mean, I'm using food, but
you know what I'm saying? It's like
God's like, no, what you're making, in
a sense, is sin what you're calling
pleasure because you feel like you're human.
These are natural desires. Blah, blah, blah.
Carlton is sin. Let's call it what
it is, and let's redefine pleasure, because
you can find pleasure in me. And

(35:08):
that's why Paul uses the word lustful
pleasure, because he wants to identify that
there is separate pleasures that we can.
Can go for or can be influenced
by or have desires for. There's a
lust, the lustful pleasures that are sin.
And then there's the pleasures that we
can find in Christ Jesus. So that's
something that I had to, like, shift

(35:30):
my focus on in my journey of
my faith. And, you know, God is
still working through those Things with me,
it's like, okay, Carlton, you have a
hunger and a desire to watch YouTube
all day and all night. That's not
godly, man. Like, come on, let's. And.
And even your. The content is. Could
be Christian content, but that's not the

(35:52):
intimacy. The time that I want you
to spend with me.

Right.

So you have a desire for it
and you call it that, you know,
it's edification, or I'm learning more about
Christ, which is fine. But the Holy
Spirit is like, that's not the relationship
that I want to have with you.
It's like when Saul came back and
said, well, I was going to give
it to you as an offering, and
God was like, I didn't ask for
an offering. I asked for obedience. And
so we have to make sure that

(36:17):
the things that we desire and the
things that we want, even if we
classify it as being for God, doesn't
take us away from relationship with God.
And it could be sin, man.

That's so good. You know, I see
a lot of discourse online, especially from,
like, gen zers or, like, newer people
in Christ, talking about some of these
things and talking, like, just kind of
wavering in what is really good for
them or what's a pleasure versus what's
a sin. And so even you just
sang about, like, consuming that amount of

(36:48):
Christian content or whatever it is and
calling it for God, but, like, not
understanding that the Holy Spirit is asking
for something different or the. The obedience,
like, that is really important. And I
think if more people understood that, then
you would have less of the controversial,
like, oh, well, this is a sin.
No, it's not. Okay, well, how do

(37:09):
you do this? I'm doing this, and
you're not doing that. That means you're
sinning. And so I think that was
really good.

But, yeah, you're right. It's not that
the Christian content is the sin, but
it's when the Holy Spirit has asked
you to do something different. Yeah. When
you know that the Holy Spirit is
calling you for more intimate relationship with
him, and you're calling it YouTube or.
Or anything. I mean, I like YouTube,
but anything else. And it's like, well,
no, it's. I. I want you to
be obedient to what I called you

(37:34):
to. To do. And there's greater pleasure
in that than any other pleasure that
you can find out in the world,
especially the pleasure that can be classified
as sin.

Yeah.

Yeah. And it's worth being walk in
a.

Manner worthy of the call.

Yes, absolutely.

If we're being real not all Christian
content is good content.

No, it's not. You know, so I
really had to stop. I had to
stop watching the Christian con where I
had to stop. The Holy Spirit guided
me to stop watching Christian content that
where the. And the YouTuber was like
bashing up, bashing pastor or church same.

(38:12):
Or some kind of theology listen to
the same guy.

Probably was.

May, maybe. And it's like, okay, I
have to stop. Okay. This is just
too much. Like, I, like I may
disagree with that particular church or that
pastor's theology, but God doesn't want me
listening to somebody who's constantly creating content
that is hurting. Like it's, it's inner
fighting within the body of Christ.

Yeah.

Like we should be praying for these
people or blessing these people or, or
guiding these people to the right theology
and not creating entire content on how
bad this church is.

Yeah.

And I think that there is a
space where is good for them to
bring to light issues.

Yes, absolutely.

Like, it needs to be there. The,
the thing that I was convicted of
was that I was watching so much
of it. I was noticing that I
was becoming judgmental of people that I
ain't even got relationship with. I ain't
even a place I know.

This person can't even pick up the
phone and call ever.

And so it was, it was putting
me in the wrong place. I, I
think that, that those YouTube channels, for
the, for the general sense, there's probably
some that are in sin by doing
it, but I think, you know, the
general consensus forum is, man, they're doing
a ministry, they're doing something they're supposed
to do and calling out false teachers.
I mean, 25 out of 27 chapter

(39:31):
books in the New Testament talk about
false teachers. So we absolutely. Like, when
there's a false teacher, we need to
be like, that's false teaching.

Yes.

Right. But when that becomes my entertainment
is to look at all the people
that we can point our finger at.
Like, that's not healthy.

Yeah. And it's the intent behind it.
Because yes, the truth is important in
calling out false teachers is important. But
why are you doing it? Is it
just to make, you know, some YouTube
money? Are you doing this because you're
trying to correct your brother or sister
in love? And most of the time
it's not really in love.

And that's where sometimes it even gets
like, petty.

Yeah.

Like, all of a sudden it's like,
man, like one of the videos I
watched was like, man, they had like
some really bad theology. And it was
like, that needs to Be corrected. And
all of a sudden, one came up,
and it was like he was bashing
the guy's clothes. And I was like,
all right. Yeah. Like, so the preacher
probably shouldn't be spending a ton of
money on his clothes. However, he has
a book deal. Like, it's not like

(40:29):
he's got a book deal. He got
paid by a publisher. Like, he's got
money. Who knows what his investment life
is? Like, like, so, like, it was
like, man, all of a sudden we're.
We're bashing this guy for how he
spends money that we don't know how
he earned or what he. What else
he's done with it or how much
he's given away to cherry.

He could be trading penny stock and
making a killing.

I know.

Idea, you know?

Yeah. So it was one of those
where it's like, okay, yeah. When you're
pointing out false teaching. I'm good with.
When you're pointing out somebody's wardrobe and
some of it wasn't even, like, the
expense of the clothes. He's like, that
just. That outfit is so, like, unflattering.
And it's so, like, trying to be
prideful. And I was like, what.

How did you get to that interpretation?
That's.

But that's when I was like, yeah,
I gotta. Yeah, we need to move
on.

But imagine if some of these New
Testament books were YouTube channels, man. Colossians.
Can you imagine? Peter had a YouTube
channel, man.

Instead of a letter, you just get
a video. You're destroying people series.

It'll be too harsh, man. He would
get demonetized oh, so fast. Lawyers will
be coming after him.

There be copyright strikes from all the
churches that he's coming against.

Oh, my goodness. Well, yes, that would
be cool, but also very controversial for
today's time. So I don't think that
would be.

We need it, man. We need one
of Jesus's letters to the church in.
In. In Revelation.

We do need a letter. That would
be really good.

Jesus wrote us a letter, man.

We're probably not ready to even t.

I want a letter, but I kind
of don't want to.

No, like, please just love me. I
don't want.

I don't want the Jesus that only
loves me. Yes.

Yeah, I would love a letter, but
I would also love to be a
church that doesn't need to get a
letter.

Yes. That's really cool.

I want the Jesus of mercy, not
the Jesus of justice.

So we've talked a lot about just
the call on our lives, what God
has called us to do in Ephesians
4. Well, Paul, I'm sorry, he had
some imperatives for us. So, practicality, if
someone listened to this conversation and wanted
to take some actionable steps towards living

(42:36):
out Ephesians 4 in its entire totality,
like, what would you suggest them to
do?

I'll jump in. The first thing you
need to do is get in a
group, because if you just try and
take these 15 things and start trying
to run with them, you're going to
struggle. It's too much. Yeah, you're gonna
fail. That's probably a more accurate term
than struggle. Like, yes, all of us
need to work on all 15 of
these things, but if you just try

(43:05):
and do it on your own, you're
gonna fail. First of all, we have
to do it through the power of
the Holy Spirit that's present throughout Paul's
writings. But on top of that, like,
you need a brother or sister in
Christ. That's like giving you examples from
their life. That's. That's modeling for you.
Okay, okay.

Yeah.

Here's your. Your. Your anger issue is
the one you got. You're holding on
to all kinds of bitterness. Let's talk
about that. Like, what. Where's the bitterness
coming from? And why are you letting
that affect you in this way? You
know, I got a friend that's working
on his language. There's some stuff that
comes out of his mouth, and he's
like, man, I know I got to
clean that up. It's like, no, you

(43:44):
know, you need to clean it up,
but what are you doing, right? To
clean it up. And I think that's
where a lot of us get to
a place where we're like, we recognize
there's a problem, but we don't necessarily
have, like, the action steps to solve
the problem.

Yeah.

And so, yeah, first and foremost, I
think get in a group, get around
some other people that are going to
be able to encourage you and challenge
you and give you advice and counsel
and all that good stuff.

Yeah, yeah, I think that's good. I
think it's a journey of accountability and,
you know, just listening to the Holy
Spirit, because we're sanctified by the Holy
Spirit, not by ourselves. You know, if
we have the power to sanctify ourselves,
then we don't. We don't need God.
We. We become our own Savior. We
get salvation through ourselves. But David said
we can't ransom ourselves. And so the.

(44:29):
The accountability part, man, get somebody to
mentor you, to disciple you, someone to
hold you accountable for your lifestyle, for
how you think for your walk with
Christ, making sure that you're, you know,
you have study time and prayer time
and your intimacy with God is, is
in check. And just the other things

(44:49):
that are happening in your lives, you
know, how we take care of our
family, how we work, those other things,
like having accountability partner kind of helps,
you know, put guard rails around your
life and guide you towards the call
that God has for you. And then
listening to the Holy Spirit, I mean,
the Holy Spirit is here to remind

(45:10):
us of what Jesus has said and
give us the attributes of Christ. And
without the Holy Spirit, we cannot, we
absolutely cannot live in the, the ways
that God wants us to live according
to the call that he has for
us in our lives. And so we
have to be in tune with the
Holy Spirit. Being in tune with the
Holy Spirit is we have to read
his Word. What do you say when

(45:30):
you start your message these past four
weeks?

If you want to hear God, if.

You want to hear God, read the
Word. If you want to hear God
audibly read it, read it out loud.

Yes.

It's like the Holy Spirit will speak
to you through the word of God.
And also you meditate, you have quiet
time, you have prayer time, and God
will start revealing to you some of
the areas of your life that you
need to be corrected, that needs to
be sharpened, that needs to be dealt
with. And the Holy Spirit will also
use the group that you're in and
your person that's mentoring you as well.
And so it's a, it's a combination

(45:59):
of things. It's a journey, it's a
team effort between the Holy Spirit and
groups, your brothers and the, just the
people around you. You know, we have
a men's group, so I'm saying my,
my, my brothers, you guys know who
you are. Sisters for me, sisters for,
for the women. But it's a team
effort and we can't do it alone.
And I think that's strategic by God

(46:20):
because we are the body of Christ
collectively. And so we need each other
in order for us to fulfill the
call that God has for us.

Something that I love within the series
is, you know, the message of the
church used to be read your Bible.
Read your Bible. Read your Bible. You
need to read your Bible. We've been
trying to shift that language around here
for probably the last couple of years
of, you need to study your Bible.
Study, study, study. Because there's a huge
difference between reading it and studying it.
And so I think, you know, the
secondary advice I'd give people is start

(46:49):
studying these Things like, I love what
you did in the, in the staff
meeting a little while ago. You took
bear with one another and you're like,
what does the word bear actually mean?
And you start pulling up. That's what
it means to study. And I really,
I hope that through this series, what
we've been able to demonstrate from the
stage is what study actually looks like,
where you're taking a sentence and you're

(47:10):
looking at the grammar and you're looking
at the history, and you're right, you're
looking up those words. And there's tons
of resources out there online for you
to utilize. But just even as simple
as just sitting with the Scripture, talking
with the Holy Spirit about it, sometimes
we try and read more than we
can really study.

Yes.

And so it's like, take it bite
size, take little bits. You know, the.
One of the things that I would
love for people to do is take
Ephesians 4, chop it up into seven
pieces, and now just read, read a
piece a day and study that piece.
Okay, what, what does that actually mean?
Why was Paul saying this? What is
that? Actually, you know, you can get
into. We skip the verse, but in
the. What is it? Verse 9, he

(47:49):
talks about ascended and descended and all
of that. Like, I had somebody ask
me afterwards, like, what is that?

What is he saying?

And it's like, man, you know, that's
the incarnation of Christ.

Like, in order for him to ascend,
he descended. It's like, what Paul, what
did you say?

I love. I love too that the
Bible actually puts it in, in brackets
because it is a, like a side
thought.

Yeah.

Like Paul, Paul literally is like heading
in this direction. He's like, rabbit trail.

Right.

And so they put it in brackets.
Like, this is a separate thought from
everything else. But yeah, so like, take,
take things like that that you're not
sure about. Start studying them. When you
get to a place where you don't
know, ask.

Yes. Yeah, that's really good. Because I
was looking at the list yesterday when
you asked us to like, kind of
figure out which one is the one
that's resonating with us. And I felt
like on the surface, yeah, you could
say you're doing all of them pretty
well. Like, oh, well, I'm loving people.
I'm not arguing with people. I'm not
causing any chaos or drama. And so

(48:46):
I have this list down. But when
I really start looking at the word,
I'm like, oh, wait a minute, like,
there's more action behind this that I
have to do. And so, yeah, on
the surface, I might have it, but
there's a little more action, and there's
a little more that I need to
do to, like.

Further this and that right there. Sorry,
that right there. That's why this is
a lifelong journey.

Yeah.

Like, even, like I said, like, at
the end of the message, it was,
you know, ask the Holy Spirit, tell
you the one, and once you're, like,
98% solid on it, then you move
on to the next one, because you're
gonna. You're gonna come back.

Yeah.

And, like. And it may be, you
know, 50% is really easy for you.
You can get 50% of the time.
You've got it down. Well, then there's
some more maturing to do. Get to
75%. But for all of us, like,
that. That journey of getting to. I
get this 100%. Right. In 100% of
situations, in 100% of the ways. Right.
Because, like, corrupting talk, you may be
like, man, I really need to stop
cussing. Yes, you do. But after you

(49:44):
stop cussing, you also need to stop
tearing people down with your words. And
you also need to stop telling lies.
And you also need to, like. So,
like, there's layers to each of these
things.

Practice new habits.

Yeah. And so that's why it's like,
man, I've got this at this level.
Okay. Do you have it at this
level?

Right? What comes out of you when
you stub your toe on the side
of the dresser?

Man, I'm so proud of the fact
that I can step on a Lego
and not cuss. No. And we didn't
even talk about this, but, like, man,
I hope my parents don't listen to
this. This podcast. I know my kids
don't, so we're okay. Man, I. By
the. Before 18, I cussed like crazy.

(50:22):
Like, the. I was Christian. But, man,
like, me and a friend, we made,
like, it wasn't like, a mixtape. We,
like, did our own, like, talk show
almost kind of thing. We were like,
17, 18. And I, like, we were
recording on this, like, tape deck. And,
like, I left one of the tapes
on the ground, and my boss, when
I was working at Blockbuster, found it

(50:43):
and played it. And she was. She
wasn't saved, and she was embarrassed. She
was like, I can't believe you talk
like that. And I'm like, you weren't
supposed to listen to that. But, like,
so, like, there's serious issue with corrupting
talk. 18 started taking my faith seriously.

(51:04):
Got into a program where, like, you
couldn't cuss. Like, this internship, like, There
was all kinds of stuff that there
was. We couldn't even listen to, like,
secular music. Like, it was, like, very,
very strict. And all of a sudden
it was like, without effort, without. It
was Holy Spirit moment. Like, cussing, just
gone.

Yeah.

And so, like, I pray that for
other people now. There are some other
things that Holy Spirit didn't show up.
Holy Spirit didn't go, eh, you're done
with that.

Yeah.

And so, like, there's a work to
be done, but don't discount, you know,
the Holy Spirit showing up.

And I love the fact that Paul
starts with, like, according to the call.

Yeah, yeah.

Because what we can do sometimes is
we can make this list according to
our standards of living. And we can
say, well, I'm okay with this. But
it's like, in actuality, according to the
call, you're probably like, only 10% there.
And it's like you set a standard
for yourself that you're comfortable with. That
one is not. It becomes easy for
you. It doesn't require any hard work

(52:03):
from you. It doesn't require accountability from
you. It doesn't require you hearing from
the Holy Spirit regarding it. And you
created this standard that has such a
low bar that it's almost as if
you didn't do anything to escape or
to get rid of one of these
things. But Paul says it's according to
the standard that God has placed in

(52:23):
us and not according to the standard
that we've set for ourselves. And so
we can't look at ourselves in our
life and say, well, I made it.
God look at me. And God's like,
that's not the standard that I set
for you. You have a call in
your life. You have a call in
ministry. And so I've placed a standard
way above something that you can achieve.
So you can continually strive for me.
So you can continually hear from the

(52:45):
Holy Spirit about your life and the
things in your life. Because even though
you'll never get to perfection, the pursuit
of perfection will draw you closer to
me.

Yes.

So I love the fact that our
standard is not us, but the call.

And it goes. There's. Oh, man, you're,
like, right there. But there's one further
step. It's the call. And what's the
call? The call is to be like
Christ.

Yeah.

So, like, the. The measure that you're
going up against is Jesus.

Yes.

So, like, when you think, man, I
got this, I'm good. Okay. Is Jesus
better?

Yes.

Because if Jesus better, then you ain't.
You ain't got to keep Working like
there's more.

Working on your life.

Because. Yeah, because the. The verse says,
you know, we're building up the body
of Christ until we all attain in
the unity of faith and knowledge of
the Son of God to mature manhood
to the measure of the stature of
the fullness of Christ. So mature manhood
and. Or womanhood. But spiritual maturity is
what he's talking about here, is to
the measure. So we're measuring to the

(53:44):
stature. What's stature? The height.

Yeah.

Of the fullness of Christ.

Right.

So not even Christ, man, Christ. Right.
The fullness, like all of deity residing
in the man of Christ. That's what
we're striving for, the fullness of who
Jesus is.

Right. But that's hard to digest.

So we're supposed to measure up to
his.

I can't even.

Can't even comprehend.

Be holy, for I am holy. I
can't. No, I can't. I'm sorry.

And. And that's the whole Old Testament.
Is to show you.

Yeah.

That you can't.

Right.

It's. Well, it's to show you two
things. One is to show you what
God's standard is and to show you
that you can't.

Yeah, it's like replace the law.

Yeah, but you should try.

Oh, yeah, absolutely.

Okay, so we've talked about a lot.
So is there one key takeaway that
you would want our listeners to walk
away with from the entire chapter of
Ephesians 4?

Man walk in a manner worthy of
the calling means that there are some
things that you need to do, and
there's some things that you need to
stop doing. You got to do both.
As Paul would say, you got to
take off the old and put on
the new. Like, it's not enough just
to put on the new, and it's
not enough just to take off the

(55:09):
old. You need to stop doing some
things. You need to start doing some
things, because this whole thing is not
just about you. You are a minister
of the gospel, and your ministry is
to build up the body of Christ,
which is the church, which is your
fellow believers. So I'm like, my job
is to help build up Carlton and
Ari, and I need to do a

(55:31):
good job leading myself so that I
can do a good job helping lead
you.

Yeah, that's good. My takeaway is that
there is a standard to live by,
and it's high. And it's not only
as high. I don't know if I
can see the top of it. There's
a standard to live by. We are
not living by our own, not just
our own effort and our own, you
know, ways of living. But we. We

(55:57):
cannot apply a standard of goodness for
ourselves. Yeah, that God has applied a
standard of goodness for us to live
by. And. And that is the stature
and fullness of Christ Jesus. And we
have to know that as believers, we
can't just be living the life how
we want to live the life. We
can't live this life based on our
own observation and experiences and knowledge. We

(56:18):
have to live the life based on
a standard that God has given us.
And that standard is Christ.

I love that.

What about for you?

I think that once you've grasped even
just how much God loves you, that
there is more for you to do
and there is more for your, like,
maturity to grow. And so looking at
this chapter, looking at all the 15
imperatives, just taking that slow and taking

(56:48):
it one by one to make sure
that you understand that even though the
Lord loves me, even though, like, I
am saved, I need to do something
with that, and there is more for
me to do, and I need to
continue to think about these things to
continue to move forward in my spiritual
maturity.

That's good.

Yes. Well, that's all I have for
you. Thank you for joining us for
the Between Queen Sermons podcast. We hope
this conversation blessed you today. Share with
us in the comments on our social
media pages how this has blessed you,
or if you have anything to chime
in with, and we'll see you next
time. We love you. Go in peace.

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