Pray, Plan & Persevere: Nehemiah’s Blueprint for Doing God’s Great Work

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Pastor Brent McQuay (00:00):
Foreign. Welcome back to another episode of
Between Sermons. I'm your host, Brent, and
I get to be the. The man.
I can't even talk today. This is
gonna be such a fun podcast. And

(00:21):
this is just evidence once again. Like,
we don't edit, like, anything. Like, just,
like, this is how it goes. All
right, so I'm Brent. I'm a pastor,
and our church is named Disciples Church,
and you're on our podcast right now.
And here's what we're doing. We are
continuing our conversation from Sunday. And. And
what we love to be able to

(00:42):
do is a lot of times that
Sunday sermon can feel like just a
person talking at you. And so by
turning this into just dialogue conversation in
a small group setting, I think it
helps us dig a little bit deeper
into the content and really dig at
some of the application for what we're
trying to communicate on the stage. But

(01:03):
in order to do that, I need
people to talk to and talk with.
And so, as always, Tyisha, you get
to be the number one victim of.

Ti'heasha Beasley (01:11):
Victim. You know what? Yes. That's accurate,
definitely. And we all feel like it's
Monday today and it's actually Tuesday.

It is Tuesday, and then by the
time somebody's watching this, it'll be Wednesday.

So I should close, like, what day
it was, but for me, it feels
like a Monday morning, and so it
all makes sense. So it's going to
be a fun podcast, but I think
it's going to be great because we
are joined by the lovely Ari. How
are you? I am tired.

You have an excuse, though. The rest
of us, we got no excuses.

Ari Ogunlana (01:49):
New baby. Yes, she does. Good. She
sleeps through the night most of the
time, but the times that she does
is like, oh, man. Yes, man. So
I'm a little tired, but I'm happy
to be here for sure.

We are practicing the persevering part of
your message.

Absolutely.

So it was. It was such a
great message. Pastor Brent, you kind of
concluded our call series on Sunday and
so wrapped it up, man. Wrapped it
up.

And did I put a bow on
it?

You put a bow on it.

Sweet.

You did, Yes. I went looking for
you after service to tell you, like,
man, I wish I would have heard
this like, a week or two ago,
because, I mean.

You could have just read Nehemiah a
week ago.

I've been reading Nehemiah. I've been reading
Nehemiah. But you have a superpower of,
like, taking this scripture and making it
very, very applicable, like pulling out the
pre pray.

That's high praise thank you.

Yeah. Praise God. So, like, pulling out
the. The prey, the plan, and the
persevere. Like, I didn't necessarily get that,
even though it's in the story, but
it's not laid out like that in
the story. So.

Yeah, I had 30 visitors in attendance,
and they all gave good feedback. People
were taking notes. They asked me to
send notes from the app. So, yeah,
it was really enjoyable.

Yeah. I talked to. Oh, man. Now,
I don't know who he was. I
think he was on your husband's side
of the family.

Yeah.

A taller guy, well dressed.

Mojiri.

Mojiri, yep. That's who I met. And
he had. He was loving all the,
like, the Bible nerd facts and stuff
and.

Wow.

I guess he had just been in
Nehemiah here recently. That was cool.

Yeah.

Awesome. So for those who was not
in service with us, Ari dedicated her
baby girl. And so you and your
husband had your family in attendance, so
what a perfect way to like, conclude.

It was great. You know how, like,
when you invite people to church, you
just hope it's, like, the perfect vibe.
And so I was like, I know
it's gonna be good, but, like, I'm
praying it's extra good. And it was.
So I was very happy.

Oh, no, that's cool.

And. And you are a project manager.

Yes.

So, like, the subject matter was just,
like. I think you were just right
at home.

Oh, yeah, for sure, man. My favorite
series that Pastor Jerry has ever done
was about Nehemiah, the Good Work. I
will always remember it. It was just
so good, so.

Oh, man. I have to go back
and watch.

You have to go back? I think
it was, like, 2019.

Yeah. A while back.

It was.

Oh, I was here, but where was
I?

I was here, but that's my.

I still remember, like, the. The bumper
for it. It was like an anvil
and, like. Yeah, yeah, it was really
good. It was good.

And if you're with me and you're
like, I don't remember it, let's go
back and watch it so together.

Yes, go back.

It was really good. Awesome. Okay, so.
Okay, so we taught on Nehemiah Prior.
Pastor Jerry did it. 2019. What was
your spin on it this time around?

I don't know that I had a
spin. I. I'm. I'm in this realization
phase of my ministry where I just.
I like just walking through the Bible.

Okay.

And you're going to hear a lot
more about that in the coming months
and years.

Okay.

But, yeah, so when I can just.
When I can just Take a text
and just, just walk through it. Yeah,
I enjoy the process more.

Yeah.

As a communicator and, and it's not
to say, you know, the whole, you
know, expositional preacher method of, you know,
I'm going to tell a personal story
and then we're going to highlight this
scripture and then we're going to jump
to this other book of the Bible
and highlight this scripture. Like, it's not
that that's bad or wrong. It's just
the more and more I, I get
away from that and I just take

(05:34):
a text and I just walk through
it verse by verse. Like, I don't
know if it's the nerd in me
or what, but it's just, I don't
know, I like it. It's fun.

I think it's the, it's your style.
Yeah, it's your style. And I think
it's a timely thing for us being
Disciples Church. Because I will confess, like,
in my younger Christian days, I did
not enjoy pastors walking verse by verse.
I felt like, no, like, give me.
I felt like there couldn't be any
application with verse by verse because it

(06:04):
was like they were always trying to
show you Jesus in the scripture. And
I was like, how dare they? We
know Jesus is in the scripture. What
is the topic for this passage? And
so that was just the younger, dumber
Christian.

Yeah. And sometimes it can be trickier
when you're doing a verse by verse
to pull out application, you know, and
I think that some preachers will even
get in trouble when they try and
pull out application to something. And it's
like, hey, you do realize that that
wasn't written to 20, 25Americans sitting in
a church service. Like, there's a historical
context of that passage that the application

(06:41):
then is different than the application now.
Like, so you can, it can be
a little tricky. I think you also
have to be careful of. And this,
in some church circles, this is a
bad word, but it's entertainment. And that
can be a bad word for some
where they're like, I don't want any
entertainment. And it's like, well, no communicators
should be entertaining. Like, if you are

(07:02):
dry and boring, like, like that's, that's
not good.

Like, Yep.

Like when Jesus communicated, he's always telling
stories and like you tell, like people
were hanging on every word. Like there's
multiple past talk about, you know, the
people didn't even really understand what he
was saying, but they kept coming back
for more. They're like, man, I want
to Hear more.

Absolutely.

You know, and so if you're. If
you're boring with the text, like, that's
not going to.

So when.

So when I experienced this, I. I
was not here at Disciples Church or
Prior Christian Life Center. Let me just
put that disclaimer for clarity. It was.
It was another church, and I just
felt like more. So they were just
trying to use these. I don't know.
I just felt like it was. It
wasn't being utilized correctly. Like they were

(07:45):
trying to use Ali's big theology words
and. Yeah. Be deep. And I'm like.

And that's often the. You know, the
challenge for the. The. The communicator is
what do I need to communicate versus,
like, okay, here's everything that I've learned
and everything that I know. And I
can show off, like, the fancy stuff,
right. But, like, does it help? Does
it add value like that? Honestly, that's.
That's usually one of my. My struggles

(08:11):
is like, I've got my research notes.

Yeah.

And I'm trying to pick and pull.
And I'm like, but this is a
really cool thing for me. But I'm
like, but I'm probably one of 10
people in the room that is going
to be like, oh, that's cool.

Right?

And so, like, you have to, like,
there's things that have to get left
behind.

Yes.

It can be hard and. And like,
no, no shade. Like, there are. There
are pastors who are better communicators than
others, and there's some pastors that are
way more pastoral than others. Like, the
way that they're able to care for
people, it's like, yeah, we. We fault
them because on a stage, they aren't
as polished, but, man, when they're in
the hospital room with somebody, like, you
don't want anybody else, that's the guy
you want. So it's like everybody's got

(08:47):
different gifts and talents and abilities and.

Yes.

Yeah, we embrace it.

True. All right, well, really quick. What
I like to do, Ari, before we
jump into conversation, is get a recap
for those who didn't. Don't know about
the story of Nehemiah. Wasn't able to
attend service. So give us a quick
recap.

Oh, man. Quick. How quick you want
it? Because this is.

Just give us a recap. Okay. All
right.

So. So Nehemiah is the cup bearer
to King Artaxerxes in Persia. The book
of Nehemiah is the last of the
historical books in. In the Old Testament
in the Jewish texts, which is a
little bit weird. Controversial, because Esther actually
follows after Nehemiah, but Esther is in
this weird limbo where it's, it's kind

(09:33):
of controversial, not always viewed as purely
historical. And so the Jewish people have
a weird relationship with it where it's
kind of like a mix of. This
actually happened historically. And then others say
it's more of like a fable, like
to explain the festival of Purim. Purim,
I don't even know how to pronounce
the festival. Yeah, this is the nerdy
part. So anyways, it's the last of

(09:55):
the history books and it's talking. It's
taking place at the. About a hundred
years after the exile has ended. So
we're in like the 6th century BC
Jewish people have completely rebelled against God.
Repeatedly keeps making threats against them, like,
hey, you keep this up, I'm going
to let your enemies win. Keep this
up and let your enemies win. And

(10:15):
they messed around and found out.

And, oh my God, trying to be
hip there. They mess around.

Look, you got a better way to
say it? Like, that's, that's what happens.
So they, they ended up in exile
in Babylon for 70 years. Persia conquers
the Babylonians, releases the Jewish people. Because
Persian occupational occupation, occupation theory was, we
don't need to make everybody Persian. We

(10:42):
just need everybody to give us money
and fight in our armies. So you
can worship your gods, you can live
in your land, you can call yourselves
whatever you want to call yourselves. We
don't care. Just give us money and
when war comes, you're on our side.
And so they basically just let all
the Jewish people go. But it's like
a 900 mile roughly distance from Babylon
to Israel to Jerusalem specifically. And it's

(11:05):
been 70 years. So a bunch of
Jewish people are like, yeah, I ain't
doing that. I ain't going back. And
so this is, this is actually like
they're. They're referred to in this time
period as the dispersion, because basically the
Jewish people have now just spread all
over the place. But the remnant that
goes back and some that had still
lived in Jerusalem are trying to rebuild,

(11:27):
everything gets kicked off by a guy
whose name I can never pronounce. So
I'm not even going to try. And
then a little bit after he goes
and rebuilds the temple, Ezra goes back
and reinitiates the sacrificial practice, the priestly
practices in the temple. But nobody has
addressed the fact that Jerusalem is sitting
there undefended. And so Nehemiah gets word

(11:49):
that, hey, yeah, you've rebuilt the temple.
Hey, yeah, you've started worshiping God again.
But what are you doing with the
city? And so Nehemiah gets really, really
upset by it. So he's weeping, he's
mourning, he's fasting and praying. And he
finally gets to present his case to
King Artaxerxes and gets permission to go

(12:10):
and rebuild the walls. Gets the permits,
the supplies, goes back, rebuilds the walls
in 52 days. And it's just an
amazing story of, like, what happens when
just a layperson steps up. Right. Because,
like, he wasn't chosen. Like, there's no.
Like, God visited Nehemiah in a dream
and said, nehemiah, you're gonna be the
one. Like, literally, Nehemiah's like, hey, how's

(12:32):
it going back there? And they're like,
oh, man, it's a mess. And he's
like, man, what do we do? All
right, let's do something.

Wow.

Which, I don't know that, for me,
that's always been, like, the. I don't
know, the selling point of Nehemiah's story.
Like, that's like the.

Yeah.

What's so incredible to me is that
it wasn't a visitation from an angel.
It wasn't the king, it wasn't the
priest, it wasn't the prophet. It was
literally just a guy.

Yeah. And a burden.

And a burden. Yeah. So. Yeah. So
that's the story of Nehemiah in a
nutshell. It's an interesting historical moment for
the Jewish people. And, yeah, he's responsible
for rebuilding the walls in 52 days
when they had been left in ruin
for. I mean, from the time of
Babylon, but for at least. What did
I say, 36,500 days? Something like that?

Well, that is. That's a. I wanna.
You know how they say live up
to some. Someone's standards, like rebuilding a
wall in 52 days? When you said
that, I was, like, the pressure. I
take every opportunity to put myself under
pressure. But, no, I. He couldn't have
done it without God. And that was

(13:39):
something he definitely highlighted in the sermon.
And so, Ari, what was something that
stood out to you in this message?
It was like, when you heard it,
you were like, this is something that
is applicable to where I am.

Oh, man. I think the planning part
really stood out to me the most.
Only because, like. Like you said, he
prayed about it, he was angry enough
to do something about it, but when
he was asked what he was gonna
do, he had a plan. And so
I think that a lot of people
just don't even take the opportunity to

(14:13):
plan and so just seeing how he
did that and how detailed it was,
and even as the story goes on,
he has a plan for the attacks,
he has a plan for how to
protect the city even while they're rebuilding
the wall. And so all of those
things just make a difference. But he
couldn't have done it without the prayer
part. And so I think about my

(14:35):
own entrepreneurship journey. I think about people
that I know who are entrepreneurs or
just people who have their hands on
a lot of different things and how
they make a plan without the prayer,
and then it keeps failing. And so
it's like the prayer part, but also
the really detailed plan. It just.

Oh, we need both something.

Yeah.

So, and, and I do think, like,
as Christians, like, we, we will gravitate
to the prayer part and we'll be
like, well, God, you're going to have
to make it happen.

Yeah.

Cuz I don't know what to do.
So, God, I need you to do
something. And he's like, all right, what
you gonna do?

Right.

I love Nehemiah for a couple of
different reasons, but the theme that really
stands out to me is like, a
social justice story of, like, he was
angry enough to do something about it.
And so I think a lot of
times we see stuff happening to people
that have nothing to do with us,
and we just do the prayer part,
right? We. We say, like, oh man,

(15:29):
Lord, help them or send someone to
help them. But what if he exposed
us to it for us to be
the people to do something about it?
So I love that he showed that
anger, showed that passion, but also, like,
thought about it deeply enough to pray
and plan. And so it just made
me.

Yeah, it's that question of, like, when,
when will it bother you enough to
do something about it?

Yeah.

And that's, that's kind of the thing
that I love. Like, so the, the
parallel that I usually give people is
like, the organization Mad Mothers Against Drunk
Driving, like, it was formed because a
mother's daughter was killed in a drunk
driving accident. And she was like, this
is not okay. Like, why isn't anybody
doing something to change the laws of
drunk driving and drinking and driving? Like,

(16:13):
why can't we do something? And then
she's like, all right, I don't want
anybody else to grieve the way I've
grieved. And so she takes it upon
herself to do something. Like, I think
that we, we need to recognize where
are the places where we grieve like
that, where we say, this is not
okay. This is not right. And then
that May be an indication that there's

(16:33):
something you're supposed to do about it.
You could be driving past the same
homeless guy every day to work, and
you're just. You're like, man, somebody needs
to help this guy. Somebody needs to
help this guy. Somebody needs help. That
somebody is probably you, Man.

I just wish that that was something
that's not necessarily taught. I wish it
was something that we were just built
with. And I say that because, you
know, working with, like, Gen Z and
Millennials, it's like they have these. They
see all of these things that need
to be addressed, and it's like, that
somebody needs. And I'm like, let's do

(17:06):
it. But then, like, it's like, well,
should I start a business to do
it? It's like, no. Like, you can
step up and be a leader. Like,
so many times we're waiting for someone
else to call us to. To take
leadership when there's so many opportunities to
step up and in the lead.

Well, the sad reality is criticism is
always easiest.

Yeah.

Like, it's easier to just identify a
problem than solve a problem.

Yeah.

And that's. That's always my. My challenge.
Like, there's times when I won't even
bring up a problem because I haven't
figured out a solution to it yet
that's good. And it's like, I know
that this thing is. Is wrong and
it's broken, but I'm sure everybody else
knows it. Like, it. They don't need
me to be like, look at this
broken thing. It's like.

Like they know it's not right. So
what's.

What's going to be the solution? How
do we fix it?

Yeah.

But I even think the beautiful lesson
about Nehemiah is leaders. Sometimes you don't
get the answer. It's someone else. And
so just being humble enough to move
out of the way and let God
give someone else the plan so they
can do it, and it just makes
it easier for everyone. But I think

(18:11):
sometimes that as people, we lord over
the things that are under our care.
And it's like, you're not supposed to
lord over this. You're supposed to lead
it. Just lead and lead the way
that God is telling you to do.
And sometimes that makes you need to
accept that it's not your plan or
your strategy that needs to come into
play. And so I just think it's

(18:32):
such a beautiful story, because could you
imagine if they were like, no, you
can't do any of this. I don't
care what you say. And Some people
did push back on Nabaya, but ultimately
it happened. And so it wouldn't have
happened if someone was lording over it.
So I think it's pretty cool.

Yeah, you see a lot of empowerment
in this story of Nehemiah where I
even like how you brought out. They
built, rebuilt the wall that was in
front of their homes.

Yeah, yeah. He divided up the work
by families and basically just assigned, okay,
family, you guys live in this part
of town, so you build the wall
in that part of town. And it
was just, it really was like, like
it's one of those things. Like the
best strategies are the simplest. Yeah, like,
it's like, well, yeah, that's a no
brainer. Like, I mean, just have them
build the wall around their house. But
like, sometimes when you're coming to a

(19:22):
massive problem like this, you're like, well,
I don't even know where to begin.
All right, let's get all the workers,
let's go. Go start building over here.
And he's like, no, no, no, everybody
do your thing where you need to
do it.

And yeah, that was, that was top
tier for me. Because you think about
projects that you're over and working with
a, with a team and honestly, you
don't want to be the smartest person
in the room. You don.

Your.

The people you're working with to take
ownership. So I love how he empowered
people to take ownership of their space,
their communities. And ultimately it led to
like a wall being rebuilt as strong.
Because I love how you pointed out,
like, if you're building someone else's wall,
you're not going to put as much

(20:05):
energy. Like, you'll try.

Like. Like I felt bad. Like, I
think I called out Carlton in the
first service. But like, the reality is
like, that's true, man. Maybe day one,
I'm working as hard as I possibly
can, right? Like day 50, am I
still putting in the same level of
effort? Like, I'm tired now, man. But
if it's protecting my house, like, yeah,
I'm gonna work hard, man.

But think about what can happen in
your local church. If everyone had this
area, they felt burdened to this, they
felt called to. If they would step
up and take ownership of that and
say, I want to see this area
be strong, thrive and grow. Like, how,
oh, my gosh, how much we can

(20:48):
really just serve the community when our,
when our church is strong like that.
So I don't know.

What I love about our church history
is like, that was my dad's approach
to pretty much anything, like, Anytime somebody
would come to him and be like,
why don't we have this. This thing
happening? He'd be like, oh, it's great
idea. You should start it, like, every
time. And I saw him do it
over and over again. And. And sometimes
the person would be like, no, no,
no, no.

Yeah.

And nothing would happen. And then sometimes
the person would be like, oh, okay.

All right.

All right. Yeah. Okay, let's. Let's do
it.

Great leadership. One away.

Learn. So much fun just watching him
work.

Yes. So, Ari, look in. You have
been in the project management, even entrepreneurial
space. What? Can you remember a season
where you kind of went before God
and you didn't pray? And you just
had. Because you're a planner. One thing
I know about you is you are
a planner.

Yeah.

When did you learn to incorporate prayer
into that?

Oh, man. I think the first time
that I really. So with my business,
I'm an event and wedding planner outside
of here. And so I. I got
the vision for the business, and I
just started working immediately. It was like,
oh, man. Okay, great. I'm getting the
branding, I'm getting the logo. I'm getting

(22:14):
all the things I got. And I'm.
By education, I'm into business marketing, all
of those things. So I was more
focused on that part of it than
the actual strategy of, like, how do
you want me to serve my clients?
And so I remember just the beginning
part of my business. It was, like,

(22:34):
really fun, fun. But once I had
to start serving my clients, it got
really hard and a little frustrating almost,
because if you think about it, these
are people's biggest moments of life, right?
And so they're trusting you with them.
And so with that comes a lot
of emotion, a lot of just family
dynamics, a lot of just tension in

(22:56):
general. Budgets, money, finances. That can make
you a little on edge. And so
they're bringing all of this and kind
of like, dumping it on you. And
so it can get frustrating if you're
not in the right heart space or
head space. And so I think that
initial part, it was like, okay, I
thought this was gonna be really fun
because I got the colors, I got

(23:16):
the stuff. But then it's like that
first client is like, oh, like, I
really have to put some muscle into
this and some care and some prayer
behind it. And so that, I think,
was, for me, the turning point of
like, oh, no, I can't do this
without God. It's enough for him to
have given me the vision for, but,
like, I have to continuously pray. And

(23:38):
I have seen the way that. That
has impacted my clients over the years
of, like, man being able to be
calm, being able to pray for them
in the moment. And I have seen
time and time again how that has
helped someone's day just be infinitely better
because I'm leading with that prayer and

(23:58):
leading with that plan that God has
given me to serve them throughout that
process. So, yeah, I think for me,
that's the answer.

Yeah. I mean, it is. It is.
The older I get, the more I
realize you really need to pray first.

Yes.

Like we said, sometimes, like, pray first.
And it's a cute thing to put
on social media, but if you do
not pray first, almost the strategy won't
even come.

Yeah.

Or the why won't be where it
should be.

Yeah.

Like, your heart won't be in the
right place. And so we. We see
a lot of talented people who have
big desires and dreams or aspirations, but
that you can almost see when they
leave God out of it, because it's
just not that it falls apart, but
it's just like they're operating without a
strategy. And so I. It's a daily

(24:54):
thing because sometimes, you know, I think
not to boast of myself, I'd be
like, oh, I know how to. And
then God be like, bring it back.

Or that discernment to even know what
you should be taking on. Like, he
can give you a great strategy and
a great plan, but if you do
just one thing outside of that plan,
sometimes it is not the right thing
to do. Like, even for me, like,
I have regretted taking on some clients,
but I didn't pray about it first.

(25:24):
I didn't pray about, like, is this
the right project for me? Is this
the right wedding? Is this the right
event? And I could instantly see, oh,
this is going to be trouble. And
it was. And so, like, I had
to learn, like, no, I have to
even pray and who. And discern who
is even the right fit for my
company, who is the right fit for
me to work with and who I
can impact beyond the wedding part. Like,

(25:46):
it's more than just me planning your
wedding. It's planning a seed for your
wet, your beyond your wedding. So your
marriage, your family, your legacy, those type
of things. And so I think about
that and I pray about it often.
And it has led me to have
more good clients than bad clients. So

(26:06):
for sure. For sure. The discernment, the
wisdom and all of that.

Yeah.

So I was just gonna jump in
with, like. So that's my area of,
like, struggle. Honestly speaking. Like, it's the
Pray first.

Really?

Why I have to keep reminding myself,
because I'm. I'm such a. I'm a
doer. Like, it's like, I just want
to. Like, there's a problem. Let's solve
it. Let's. Let's jump in. And a
lot of times I jump into things,
and I'm, like, halfway into it, and
then I'm like, oh, oh, yeah. Hey,
God. And what I have to keep
reminding myself is my. My planning might

(26:42):
be good, but his is always going
to be better. And so even if
it's just for him to give me
the green light, awesome. But there have
been a lot of times when I
thought I had a great strategy or
plan for how to approach something, and
God gave me something totally different. And
it was. It was almost like struggling.
It was like, maybe that was just
bad pizza. Like, maybe I didn't really
hear from God on that one. Like,

(27:03):
maybe that's just me being weird. I
should probably do my. And, man, every
time when. When I finally give in
and say, okay, God, let's go with
your plan over my plan, it works
out way better.

So much easier, man.

So much better, man.

So is it wise to say that
if you are planning something and it's
not going well, then it's probably something
you shouldn't be doing?

I mean, I. It's hard to make,
like, that kind of blanket right on
the Internet. Yeah. Somebody's like, look, Pastor
Brent said I should get divorced because,
like, the plan for my marriage is
not working. Okay. No, that's not okay.
So, like, I would just be. Yeah.
A little cautious of that. But it
can be an indication that, like, you
may be. Either you've got the wrong
plan or you're not even doing the

(27:46):
right work.

Yeah.

And I think that there are times
when. Yeah. We can take on a
project. We can take on something that
wasn't meant for us to do. And
so. Yeah.

Which is why you talk about the.
Pray that you should. The prayer. You
should pray. And so what did you
say?

Wisdom, favor strength.

Yeah.

Wisdom favorite. Same prayer all the time,
applies in any situation. Wisdom favor strength.

Yeah, that. No, that's good. Start there.
Yeah.

Yeah. So you pray for wisdom, like,
God. God, what's the right approach for
this? Like, I can go out and
get information. I can gain knowledge. I
can take a class. I can watch
a video. I can do all those
things. But knowing what to do with
that stuff, like, that's. That's wisdom, and
that's what I need more of from.
From God. And so God, I need
your wisdom in this. Because there's 18

(28:34):
different ways I could approach this conversation.
I need the wisdom. Know the right.
The right one. And so I need.
I need wisdom. And whatever the situation,
whatever the circumstances are, I need favor.
Favors outside of my control. Right. Like,
there's. I love the. The joke of,
you know, favor ain't fair, but it
sure is fun. And it's true. Like,
there. There are things where, like my

(28:55):
strategy and my plan and the wisdom
that I get from God can still
only take me so far.

Yeah.

But if I have favor with the
person I'm talking with, like, I can.
I can go up to somebody and
say the same thing I said to
somebody else, but they're more receptive to
it. What is that? I think that's
favor. And so I want to be
praying for favor in every situation, because
it's very rare that I'm dealing with
something that's only involving me. There's always
other people involved. It might be my
wife, it might be my kids. It

(29:22):
might be an employee. It might be
a stranger. It might be somebody I
don't know. And so I just always
praying for favor. It brings me back
to baby dedications on Sunday. My favorite
verse to use for baby dedications is
Luke 2:52, says that Jesus grew in
wisdom and stature and in favor of.
With both God and man.

Yes.

And so, like, I'm always praying, God,
give me your favor.

Right.

That's the good hand of the Lord
was upon Nehemiah. So I always want
God's favor, but I also want favor
with the people around me.

Yeah.

And then, honestly, the. The last part
of that puzzle is the strength. Because,
like, God can give you wisdom. He
can give you favor, but if you
quit in the middle of it or
you chicken out or you run away,
like, he. He could have given you
wisdom on how to talk to your
neighbor. He'd give you favor that your
neighbor's actually gonna listen to you. But
if you don't actually walk over to
the fence and start a conversation, like,

(30:14):
it's not gonna work. So we need.
We need the strength to actually do
what we're supposed to do. Gives him
favor strength every time.

I thought that was really cool to,
like, give that, because when you were
talking about it, I realized that I
do that automatically. And I'm like, okay.
But I also add clarity because I
think sometimes you can. You can know
what to do. But then, like, if
you are anxious or dist. Attracted or
whatever, sometimes it can get, like, jumbled

(30:40):
up, right? And so, like, clarity to
know, like, what's the stuff to do
right now? And then Grace, just in
case you mess up a little bit.
So I always.

Just in case that thing that's probably
gonna happen happens.

So I thought that was really cool.

I'm like, oh, I do that, but
I add these. So I thought it
was cool.

I'm telling you, I needed this message
like, a week ago. I did this
last Sunday. We should have switched out
Esther with Nehemiah because that I needed
all of that grace and everything. I
had IM scheduled for 1 o'. Clock.
In my mind, it was 1 o'.
Clock.

Okay.

But on the calendar, it was 11.
So, dude, we're not even gonna go
there.

And I'm pretty sure, like, everybody in
the room has been victim of that.
Like, I've had times when I put
something on the calendar and I wasn't
paying attention. The calendar would, like, default.

Yeah.

Like, I was scheduling something that's, like,
it's a recurring thing. And so, like,
when I open up my calendar, I
just type in the name of the
person that I'm meeting with, and it
just, it automatically fills in all the
details. And so I just, I went
with it, but it was like, oh,
yeah, we were supposed to meet at
2 o', clock, not 4 o'. Clock,
but it defaults.

I'm not sweating it, but I'm not
sweating it now. But it's just like,
you, you need grace. Yeah. So, no,
I love, I love this Nehemiah, like
you said, Pastor Brandt is such a
great book for leaders and people over
projects. It's. It's just so encouraging. I

(32:07):
love how he empowers people. I love
the part when you said they were
building and they had swords in their
hand. Man. Can you talk about a
season where you felt like you were
building, you were planning, and let. And
let's talk about a little bit of
that work that you did, you do
here. Because I had an opportunity. I
have an opportunity to serve with you
here at Disciples Church. And I do

(32:29):
see you come to work with your
sword in your hand.

Oh, absolutely. I, I, Before I even
got on staff, I knew the Lord
had given me a task which was
to help create order. And so, like,
in that creating order also includes, like,
sorting out a lot of mess sometimes.

(32:52):
And so if you are not careful,
you can get caught up in the
mess. Right. And you can get stuck
in the mess. And the times that
I have done that, it's when I
have dropped my sword or I have
run out of the strength or the
endurance to keep going, to like, keep
sorting out stuff. And so I have

(33:14):
learned over the years, especially as I
mature as a believer, is I cannot
drop that sword. Because again, back to
that discernment thing. And even a part
of Nehemiah's story, like with the prophet,
had he not been paying attention, he
could have easily like hid from the,
the people who were supposedly coming to

(33:36):
kill him that night and hiding in
the temple and all of that. And
so like, but he discerned like, no,
this is not right. And so I
think if you keep, keep going and
you have that sword and you're in
a space where you're ready to defend,
ready to put, protect, ready to fight
for what you know, God is telling
you to do, then you can keep
going and you can keep doing the

(33:58):
right things and not make those missteps.
So I feel like a lot of
times even here, like, if the Lord
feels like I'm getting off track, he'll
give me a dream or he'll say,
hey, like, pull it back in, like,
think about this or do this. And
so I have to keep doing, realigning
ourselves.

So it's really not just about the
planning and it's not a one time
prayer, like you said. It is a,
a constant staying as you're walking, you're
praying. Yeah.

And even with the people on staff
with us, I feel like the Lord
has graced me to be an advocate
and a helper alongside of people. And
so if it's, maybe it's you or
whoever, and I can see the frustration
or I can see it's like, wait,
maybe if we tweak this thought or
tweak this perspective or tweak this action,

(34:50):
we probably will get a little further
doing this. And so I have seen
how that has helped us move forward
a lot. And so I know that's
my special little.

It is, it is. I will say
you keep me all the way together,
even if it's just like, hey, let's,
let's pray. Yeah, like I've seen you
do that, you know, in our staff,
like not meetings, but like when we
in the office together and we're like,
oh man, we're stuck with this, like,
what are we doing? Like, let's pray.
So like on the spot, we'll pray.
So I think that's good.

I think the, the reality with the
whole sword thing is like the, the
work has to be defended and there's
going to be outside attacks, but also
internal attacks. Like there's going to be
moments where you're gonna get lazy, you're
gonna get tired, you're gonna get distracted
by something. And so, like, part of
that whole being ready to defend the
work.

Yeah.

Because it's a great work. Like, that's.
I mean, that's the emphasis that Nehemiah
makes. And so it's. It's worth defending
great works.

Yeah.

And so if the great work that
God has for you is raising your
family, then, like, you're gonna need to
defend your family from. From a lot
of stuff. You're gonna need to defend
your marriage, defend your kids.

Yeah.

Like, that's. I think that's the symbolism.
Like, there's a absolutely literal application for
the Jewish people there. I mean, there's.
Somebody's gonna come and stab you. You
need to have a sword on you.

Absolutely.

Spiritual application for us today.

Right.

Is that we need to be mindful
of. Of the attacks of the enemy
and. Right. To defend.

Yeah.

Especially working in ministry, it's like constant
spiritual warfare. It's, like, unmatched. And so,
like, if you are not careful and
not mindful of that, you will totally
miss the mark.

Absolutely, Totally.

Absolutely.

Yeah.

I totally agree. It's like, half of
my job is praying and staying in
scripture and making sure you're constantly checking
your heart. Like.

You.

Your heart will be yanked as soon
as you get in any type of
leadership role. I won't even say just
staff, but any type of leadership role
within the local.

You're really selling that. What are we
trying to hire right now? A social
media content creator. You're really selling that
position.

You are going to thrive and grow
and be stretched into great.

Just be ready for war.

Be ready for war.

But it's the truth, though, because when
people come in, it's like, oh, church
looks fun. And then everything is so
great, and.

All we get to do is pray.

All day, and it's like.

And you get to work with Christians
all the time. It's got to be
so easy.

A little bit. But, yeah, when you
see people struggling through things and walking
through things, and then it's like, oh,
wait a minute. This is not easy
and it's not always fun, but it
is worth it when you see the
life change or the seeds planted and
those type of things. So it's like,
out of all of this hard work,
the good part of it is, I've

(37:40):
done this for God. I'm doing what
he has called me to, and the
rest is just not up to me.
Whatever happens after that, yeah, I've done
my part and so being mindful of
that as a leader, I think helps.

Yeah. And I think that's where that
perseverance come in. When you understand your.
Why you. When you understand, like, God
has given you this burden. I'm doing
it. There is opposite.

Why can't I say opposition.

Opposition. There is opposition. There is that
spiritual warfare aspect of things. But I'm
not coming down from this post. And
so until the work is done. And
I feel like that is the biggest
encouragement for anyone. Not just staff, not
just leaders. But even if you're serving
in any capacity, it's like when you

(38:29):
know God sent you somewhere, you gotta.
You gotta stand strong.

Yeah.

And tall. And I think Nehemiah was
a great example of that.

I'm doing a great work. Why should
the work stop? So I can come
down to you, man. It's like, that
was brilliant. The best response possible.

Yeah.

You know, I was thinking about this
morning when I was thinking about this
episode, we. I think you said something
like, he was the greatest example of
like, like leadership or like, it gave
a lot of tools there. I'm like,
I want to know the real, real
story. Like, not. I know that was
the story, but, like, if you took
the highlights of my life, you gonna
say she was a top tier person?

What's the part that they're not?

Right.

It's funny. I was talking to a
guy actually named Nehemiah after the service,
and I was talking about the whole
fact that, like, I mentioned that, like,
Nehemiah's just one of the only, like,
good dudes in the Bible. Like, there's
not a whole lot of them.

Yeah.

And that. And I was. I was
quick to point out, I'm like, no,
that doesn't mean that he didn't sin
because the Bible says we've all sinned.
So I'm sure that there's something he
got wrong.

Yeah.

That he messed up. But everything that
we have recorded in the Bible, like,
there's never a mo. Even like, his
most, like, harsh moment, like, he. He
kicks out a bunch of people from,
from Israel because they had broken commandments
and broken laws. He's like, chasing them
out of the temple and stuff. Like,
it gets intense. Like, I mean, he
divides families. He's like, hey, you married
somebody that you weren't supposed to marry
and it's corrupting the. The people.

Wow.

Like, because he was reading in the
law, it's like, hey, don't marry the
Right. The. The people around you. And
he's like, you did that?

Like, yeah.

And so like, man, it was like
he was breaking up families and stuff.
Like, it was crazy. But there was
never a moment where, like, he wasn't
supposed to do that.

Right.

It was always like, he's adhering to
God's word. And so, like, yeah, he's
just one of those rare good dudes.
But we don't know.

Right.

We don't know everything about his.

Right, Right. So highlight reels are, they're
okay. You know, people would be like,
stop showing us your highlight reels. The
Bible shows highlight.

I'm just playing Nehemiah's highlight reel is,
Is quite impressive.

Yeah.

There was a part, and I don't
know if you, if it was relevant
to the message, but I loved in
the story of Nehemiah where he stepped
up as an advocate. So it was,
it was funny that you mentioned that
you felt like one of your jobs
was to advocate for people. Even, like,
you can tell his heart wasn't necessarily

(40:49):
the position, even though he got the
position with his leadership, like, stepping up
to the club.

Yeah. They later refer to him as
the governor.

Yes.

Like, he, he takes on a leadership
role.

Yeah. So it's, It's. It was amazing
to see, like, even how, you know,
he didn't take, he didn't take the
perks of coming that went along with
that title. He just really used that
to, like, serve people and be fair
to people. And so he was a
outstanding guy. And I, I, I don't

(41:19):
know if that's learned or taught, but
we need to see that in 2025.
What do you say? Catch it. We
need y' all to catch this. His.
His heart behind really was to, To.
To serve God's people, protect God's people.
And I think that's the difference when

(41:40):
you are in entrepreneurship, because I was
in entrepreneurship for a while. There's this
thing you can do where you can
position yourself. So everything you do is,
like, your strategy is, I want to
make myself look the best. Yeah. All
the time. So that I can keep
getting hired.

Hate it.

You hate.

You know, like, hate it. Honestly, like,
that was the worst once. You know
what the way the wedding and event
planning industry works is all about. The
most beautiful picture. It's all about this
just fabulous highlight reel. And so when
I was trying to do that, it

(42:18):
was the worst time of my business.
And when I stopped posting or stopped
caring about that and showing, like, this
is how I helped this client, or
this was the love story, or this
was the friendship that came out of
it, or even one of my clients
they ended up being members here because
I had told them about our church
and, you know, stuff like that. And

(42:39):
so, like, once I stopped focusing on
the positioning. Positioning, and, like, this is
why I'm the best. Or this is
why, like, I'm just gonna be me.
I'm. I don't have to show you
that. You're gonna see it from what
I naturally do.

Yeah.

And it got so much easier as
a business owner when I stopped trying
to show up as what Instagram says
or TikTok or whatever. Just being myself.

Yes. And that's what I wanted to
get to is I feel like that's
one of the biggest downfalls of, like,
our generation. Everyone is trying to show
that highlight. Everyone is trying to position
themselves. And the biggest strategy that I.
I learned really quickly is keeping close

(43:24):
with God, like, staying in relationship with
him and moving. How he say move.
And honestly, it's not about positioning yourself.
It's about answering the burden. Yeah. And
that's when you thrive. Like, when you.
I always told, when I used to
teach, like, a little bit on business,
I would tell them it's not about
that cute post. It's about doing your

(43:44):
best on that project and letting them
go out.

Yeah.

And be your test. You know, if
you care about the person you're serving,
then you don't have to worry about,
you know, positioning yourself. And I think
you can see that in Nehemiah's story
where it's like, he didn't come there
with no agenda to become the governor.
He wanted to rebuild the wall to
help protect the people. His heart was
for the people. And it's like, sometimes

(44:07):
we get that twisted in 2025 where
it's like, oh, I need to do
this for me. And we forget, like,
people. We forget the people we. We're
called to serve. So.

Yeah, self promotion just looks exhausting. It.

It is. Really is. It is. Is
exhausting. So. Yeah. No, well, I think
it's time to land. Unless I miss
something.

I mean, we. We can talk. As
long as you want to talk.

Yeah. Well, I think it's time to
land the plane. So. In this.

You're so. You're so gun shy on
that one.

Because I told you I'm the co
host and you're the host, so I
default to.

You meant equal. Like, no working together.

So what do you think? We've been
having this debate for, like, the whole
series now. Co host me. Okay. You
follow the lead of the host, correct?

Yes.

If you all.

If host and co host are the
titles but if it's two co hosts,
then you work together, so.

See, See, I don't know that I've.

Ever called myself the host, have I?

Yes. It's like I'm the host of
Between Sermons.

I'm not one of the hosts. I
don't know. We got to roll back
the tape. I don't know. Words come
out of my mouth. I can't be
responsible for them.

It's like assistant director and director, Like.

Sure, yeah.

Or if you have co directors.

Right? Yeah, yeah. I've always viewed it
as a co.

Okay. All right.

Well, you all play well off of
each other.

It works. It works. It works. For
now.

For now. Are you trying to replace
me?

I think the content creator.

Are you trying to replace yourself? I
thought you were trying to get rid
of me.

No, not you.

Like, you know, between sermons with Soul
McQuay would be a lot better than.

Well, you said it, not me. No,
just playing. I'm just playing. Playing. No,
I think that. I think the conversations
are always good, but in this part
of the segment, we try to choose
something to highlight that is really applicable
to those who are watching. So if
you had to give a takeaway to
those watching from this sermon, what would
it be?

Man, that's a great question. I would
say, just honestly, the three points, if
you can remember those, you will get
much further. Plan, pray, plan, persevere. That
is just the highlight of all of
it, because if you. You can apply

(46:31):
that to literally anything. And if you
can do that, then.

You can win and shout out to
Pastor Jerry for that one. Because the
original message was, pray like Nehemiah, plan
like Nehemiah, and stay focused like Nehemiah.
And then Pastor Jerry was like, you
know, you could do a persevere, and
you have the alliteration.

He did. Yes.

I love that, Pastor Jay. That's. That's
why you're still the goat, right?

Three P's. I love it.

The goat. I love that. So that's
good. I think that's good. What about
you?

For me, it all comes down to
the great work. I think the. The
real takeaway for people needs to be
that you have a great work to
do, and you need to stay focused
on the great work. And the work
is great because of the great God
who gave it to you. It's not
because we have a podcast, so we
have a great work.

Yeah.

It's not standing on a stage. It's
not about the number of influences or
influencers or the money, the dollar signs.
Like, none of that. The Work is
great simply because a great God gave
it to you. And so if the
great work for you to do is
raising your family, that is a great
work. Like, don't. Don't downplay it. Don't
look at it as less than it

(47:40):
is. It is the great thing that
God's got for you. And all of
this really comes out of what the
real purpose of the series was. You
know, we're called in the same way.
When Jesus called his disciples, he said,
come, follow me, and I'll make you
fishers of men. So there's. There's a
following Jesus being transformed by Jesus and
joining the mission of Jesus. That's our
calling.

Yeah.

And so that's. That's a great work.
Like, to follow Jesus to allow him
to turn you into him so that
every day you're more like him and
less like you, all so that you
can go and make disciples. Examples like,
that's a great work. Let's focus on
it.

Can I ask you a question?

Absolutely.

So you know how with Nehemiah, he
had this burden, right? He was grieved.
What if you are not grieved by
anything or you don't know what that
feels like? So how do you find
your great work?

That's good.

Yeah. So I think that that's a
brilliant question, because not everybody is. And
just because something grieves you doesn't necessarily
mean that's your work. Like, it can
be like a billboard, I guess, an
indication. That's probably the fancy word that
I was looking for, of what your
great work is, but it's not a
guarantee. Like, there's a lot of things
that bother me that I know that

(48:51):
I'm not supposed to do anything about.
So understanding, calling. First of all, it
starts with the great work is following
Jesus, being transformed by Jesus, joining the
mission of Jesus. If we focus on
that, we'll be good. Now, the assignment,
I think, is the way we kind
of started describing it in the podcast
can look different. Like, how does that

(49:12):
look? And so for somebody, that could
be the thing that grieves you. For
somebody else, it could be, man, you
know what? God placed me in this
business. I've got this influence with people.
How can I use this for his
glory? That could be the great work.
And so I think it's just part
of it would be go to growth
track. I always say that just because

(49:34):
for me, I love. We stole this
from Rick Warren, but he talks about
how everybody is shaped. You've got spiritual
gifts, you've got heart, you've got abilities,
you've got a personality, and you've got
experiences. S H A P E. And
those five things, when you look at
them in conjunction, you can really identify
the work that God has for you,

(49:56):
the assignment that he has for you.
Because we all have abilities and talents
and we all have experiences that will
lead us in a direction. And then
knowing how God has spiritually gifted you
and how your personality plays into things,
and then it's the heart, it's the
passion, it's the, the thing that grieves
you or the thing that excites you.
Yeah, it can work both ways. Like
the thing that makes you the most

(50:17):
mad or the thing that makes you
the most happy. It could be somewhere
in there that you're going to find
your calling.

That's good.

Yeah. Go to Growth Track. My. My
recommendation.

Yeah.

Or at least play around with that.
Okay. What, what is my spiritual gifts?
What is my heart? My passion for
things? What abilities do I have?

Yeah.

Like, I could have a passion for
music, but if I don't have an
ability in the music field, like, that's
probably not my calling. My personality, which,
which really, like, dictates, like, how you
operate within your calling. So like my
personality, very introverted, very analytical. So like,
I lean towards those operations. And then

(50:59):
the final one is your experiences. Like
what, what have you gone through? What
education do you have? What experiences you
have, Good and bad. But all of
that kind of works together.

Amen. That's kind of very practical. Thanks
for that question.

What's your takeaway?

My takeaway is, you know, the prayer
that you said, like, if we could
just start there, our lives will be
better.

So just pray or the Jesus help
or no.

Well, I like the Jesus help wisdom.
The wisdom, favor and strength was, was
something. I'm going to start praying daily,
like adding that to my prayer routine
daily, because we need that daily. But
I also liked how you said, jesus
help man.

That's a full prayer right there.

I'm about to start saying that under
my breath, and then it doesn't help
because you can read my face a
lot. So when you just see me
having that deep face, you know I'm
praying Jesus.

Honestly, that's. So I still, I pray
the wisdom, favor, strength, a lot. But
I think the number one prayer I
pray in this season is Jesus, help
man. I need some help, and it
needs to come from Jesus and he's
come quickly.

So that would be, I should add
that.

That's, that's, that's. Maybe that's My. My
problem. I haven't been adding the quickly
help and help Jesus. Help whenever you
want, whenever it's convenient. I need help
now.

So I think that would be my
takeaway. I think that's such. It's so
important just to pray, man. It's so
important. So we hope you enjoyed this
conversation. Let us know what your biggest
takeaway is. I know we've never done
that, but I think that this sermon
has some very good application to it.
So first, go back and watch it.
It's on our YouTube channel. You can
watch it at We Are Disciples Church.

(52:43):
And also, when you watch this episode,
let us know what your biggest takeaway
is. We would love to read through
those because I think this was a
really good sermon filled with application and
a great way to conclude our Call
it series.

Great series.

Great series.

We're excited about the next one, though.

We know the next one. Do you
want to tell people what it is
or you want to just let it
roll? Okay.

We're gonna walk through the book of
First Peter.

Yes.

So and we. We're actually. It's almost
like a continuation because we're going to
look at Peter's life kind of the
same way we looked at other people's
lives.

I love it.

His book, but yeah, five chapters. You
could read all of it before Sunday
and kind of have an idea of
where we're going.

Yes. So that's going to be great.
I'm excited for that. I'm sure we're
gonna have Pastor Carlson on the show
because when y' all start getting geeky
like that is when y'. All.

Like, he is preaching on October 5th.

Okay.

The first Sunday, we have three services.
We're going to three services. And I'll
be in the Philippines.

Oh, wow.

Poor Carlton. Right?

So stretch your hands towards Pastor Carlton
and pray for him. But thank you
for tuning in. And until next time,
we love you, and we'll see you
next week.

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