When God Interrupts the Plan: Fear of the Lord, Awe & Obedience | Christian Atheist Finale - Between Sermons // Audio

Episode Transcript
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Pastor Jason Parks (00:00):
Foreign.

Pastor Brent McQuay (00:10):
Welcome back to another episode of Between
Sermons. We are hanging out today to.
To. I can't even talk today. I'm
so excited.

Ti'heasha Beasley (00:18):
I think it's your attire. Like, you're
comfortable. You look very dapper. Is that
the. The word?

Does this look like Christmas casual?

It does. You're looking.

Because I was told to wear Christmas
casual. For a different video. Not for
this one. Back to our intro. Hey,
I'm. Did I even say who I
am?

I didn't know.

Such a mess.

Yes.

Rewind. All right. And we don't edit
any of this stuff, so you're just
along for the ride as we go.
But I'm. My name is. I can't
even say my name. This is gonna
be a long podcast. It's gonna be
so good. My name is Brent. I
am a pastor. I think of a
church called Disciples Church. I'm pretty sure

(00:59):
that's what we're doing here, but. So
this podcast is all about just continuing
our conversation from Sunday, taking the monologue
of a sermon and turning it into
kind of a small group dialogue so
you get the chance to hang out
with us as we talk through the
sermon. And I'm excited about this one
because I didn't preach it, which means
I get to be on the other
side of, like, the. The whole conversation.

(01:20):
It's gonna be great. I'm just gonna
listen to the wisdom that's gonna pour
out of our special guest today. But
first, Tyesha, as the wonderful co host.
How are you doing today?

I am well. I'm grateful to be
here.

Is your brain and mouth connected better
than mine right now?

A little.

A little bit, but a little bit.

You had a lot of. You had
to do a video before this, so
you had a lot going on. So
I'll give you a little.

That's nothing.

Yeah.

I just read from a teleprompter. It's
great. We need a teleprompter for the
podcast. That would help me out a
lot if I could just read.

I know.

Then we'd be good.

No, I think it's good. You may
still be in the overflow from yesterday.
That's what we're going to.

Is that what it is? That's what
it is, yes.

So Pastor Jason, he ended the amazing
Christian atheist sermon series yesterday with the
fear of the Lord. And, man, the
Lord showed up. So it was just
overflow we had. You got to.

I think I was just going to
say, I think yesterday is one of
those days where, like, if you came
at the 8:30 service, or you came
at the 12:30 service. Like, you're like,
church was great today.

Yeah.

And if you came at the 10:30.

You'Re just like, church was.

You don't have the words. There's no
words. And it's really funny, like, watching
people, like, be like, oh, wait, what
happened?

Right?

I went to the other service. Like,
oh, man. Now we got a whole
group of people that are like, do
I just need to go all three
services on Sunday just in case?

Funny story. There was a volunteer who
came to the 8:30 service. She was
like, I came, I went home, and
I always watch it online. And she
was like, oh, wait, something's happening. Got
back in her car and drove back
to the 10:30 service. So I was
like, wow, praise God. She was like,
I don't know what you doing, God,
but don't do it without me. And

(03:05):
she got back in her car.

Yeah. I think it was all a
ploy by Jason. Jason was really nervous
about having to preach three times. So
it was all a ploy by Jason
to not have to preach three times.

I have a request of you. Can
I just do it twice? You preach
once and I'll preach twice. Perfect.

Yeah. So if you. If you aren't
up to speed on what happened yesterday.
So our 8:30 service went off as
usual. 12:30 service went off as usual.
10:30 service, not usual.

Big audible.

Yeah, the Holy Spirit just kind of
dropped the bomb in the room. I
think maybe we're. I think we're maybe
10, 15 minutes past when worship was
supposed to end. And I just tapped
Jason on the shoulder and I was
like, yeah, you're not going to be
preaching this service. He's like, yeah, I
know. It was really easy, quick conversation.
It was like, you know, sorry, I
know you did a lot of prep

(03:57):
and you're ready for three, but nope.

You'Re gonna miss this one. I can
honestly say that. So I was in
the bag during worship, and I was
watching it, and I was. I was
really trying to kind of collect myself
because I was like, man, I got
two more services. So I'm like, okay.
And I was sitting there and I
got really this urgent urgency to go
into the service. And I was sitting
there like, well, I'm trying to collect

(04:20):
myself. So this internal conversation, I had
to eat my own, like, cooking, and
I'll get back to obeying quickly. And
I said, okay, I'm just get in
there. And I'm like, man, but I'm
tired. And so I sit there and
I would Say, within three minutes, my
face was in the floor. And I
mean that literally three. And. Which is.

(04:44):
I'm always open for the Lord to
do whatever he wants to do. But
that was very overwhelming. And in that
moment, the Holy Spirit spoke to me
and said, you, sermon has changed. And
so I'm trying to understand what that
meant. Like, okay, do I take part
of it all? Do I move this
and move this? And later, after literally

(05:04):
getting off the floor, it's like, oh,
the sermon has changed. The Lord doesn't
need a mouthpiece this service. He's gonna
speak himself. Oh, the sermon has changed.
And so that's when you said, not
preaching. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Thank you. Gotcha.
Right? So it was. It was, I
think, the pure definition of awesome. Yeah,
the pure definition of awesome. The way

(05:26):
we are supposed to say it, where
we. We are God and his presence.
It was. It was amazing. Awesome.

Have you ever. Have you saw a
movie and it had, like, different viewpoints?
In that movie, I felt like that
10:30 service was that.

Yeah.

Because I saw people doing different things
and having different experiences. Like, even me,
I'm in the middle of, like, working,
because typically Sunday is a work day
for me. I'm working. And literally, God
was like, put the phone down. Like,
I'm in the building. Not, like, he's
not always in the building. But that
moment was definitely a moment where, like,
no.

Yeah.

And I just. Under the weight, I
just crashed. Like, so it was just.
It was awesome. That was my viewpoint.
Yours was, like, on the floor, on.

The stairs, on the floor, like, on.

Like, get back in the service. Mine
was like, I'm here. You need to
submit to me. I don't know. What
was yours?

Yeah.

What was yours managing? Like, so it
is that moment where, like, I'm in
it, but I have to be somewhat
removed from it in order to.

Yeah.

Everything. And so it was. Yeah. The
number of people that just kept looking
over at me like, what do we
do? Yeah, like, what. What happens next?

Like, yeah.

And so, like, I love Pastor Moy
so much. Like, he gets up on
stage to, like, do a worship transition.
He, like.

Right.

And he just walked off the stage,
and he handed me the mic. He's
like, I don't know.

Yeah.

I'm like, it's okay.

All right. But I would say that's
appropriate.

Yeah.

Yeah. 100% that's appropriate. And my hope
is that we all, even from our
different perspectives, have the same response, which
is to pause and to say, God,
what do you want? Like, that. To
me, Whether your face is on the
floor or run into service or stop

(07:20):
work and recognize me, or this is
where, you know, you gotta be a
little bit of Moses. You know what
I mean? Like, okay, the people need
to.

And that's the fun. Awful, weird. Like,
I would have loved for yesterday be
for me. Yeah, yeah, like that I'm
just here to receive this moment. But
it definitely, I think saying Moses, that
was an apt kind of description. It
was like, okay, presence of God is
here, but there's people here. How do

(07:52):
we navigate this? How do I listen
to the Holy Spirit in this moment
to know what needs to happen? So
I'm sitting there in prayer, just asking
God, okay, what do you need me
to do? What do you want to
happen next? And so that's when I'm
trying to give visual cues to Lashawn
to continue things. That's where I'm letting
Moy sit down and not have to
worry about poor boy.

Come on. Come on down.

Come on, son.

That's where I'm like, okay, I need
to go up on stage. I need
to bring. Bring the. We people need
to be. Have hands laid on.

Yeah.

So, like, I need to bring the
altar team. So, like, it, like, there
was so much navigating and managing and
then even like, Holy Spirit was like,
your mom needs to. To. To share.
And so, like, I go across the
room and I'm like, hey, you know,
I don't know if you're being nudged,
but, yeah, I don't know, like, am
I here to tell you, like, stop
ignoring God? Like, I don't think that's

(08:45):
what I'm.

Here to do, but.

Oh, my God.

Like. And so it's like, like, if
you've got something to share, like. And
I think what I realized is that
she wanted to make sure she had
the freedom to do it because they're
in a different role in the church
now. And I was like, okay. That's
why the Holy Spirit was telling me,
because I needed to be the one
to reassure her that you always have
freedom. And so, yeah, so it was

(09:08):
just. For me, it was like a
lot of just like, this moment is
awesome, but God's wanting me to do
things. So he was telling you to
stop working? He was telling me to
start.

Right.

Which was really funny because at the
8:30 service, somebody was like, hey, so.

How'S your day going?

I'm like, today's awesome. I'm just attending
church. Like, I'm not. I wasn't hosting,
I wasn't preaching. Like, I just get
to go to church today. And God
was like, yep.

I just, you know, for me, it
was a metaphor for life, though, like
actually walking in the spirit. Like, and
I know we over spiritualize that sometimes
and make it. That's what walking in
the sphere, how it functionally looks at
different places in our life because we're
going to be in different places of
our life when we're in leadership. Walking

(09:54):
in the spirit means you are led
directionally by what God is saying in
that moment for the people that he
has something for. And it's not to
shrink back or to get selfish. It
is a sacrifice to him to say,
I would love to have my cup
empty and you pouring just for me.
But in this moment, I have put
you in this position for. For this

(10:15):
reason. And so you need to know
how to walk in the spirit. So
you need to know whether Pastor Chris
is mom in that moment or you're
putting her an assignment. Right. And she
needs to know. I know I need
like prophetic Pastor Chris right now and
not mom or whatever. I'm just using
that as an example, you know, and

(10:35):
for me, in that moment, it's, yes,
you're on assignment. And just like in
school that the assignment changes. And so,
yes, first service, you preach, you're going
to preach, but this service, you're going
to pause and submit. And what you
were preparing for is happening in front
of you. Everything that you saw on

(10:56):
Mount Sinai and all these and Abraham,
it's happening in front of you. This
is awe. When you recognize that I
am sovereign, I can change whenever I
want to. Right. And so. And from
your perspective as well, you're on assignment,
I've given you responsibilities and all of
that, but work is not more important

(11:16):
than my presence. Right. Like, period. And
so it was like, oh, this is
life. Like, this is life. So it
was. It was again, the pure definition
of an awesome experience. And then the
third sister at the.

Preach, I don't know if he ever
listens to the podcast, but I'll tell
to him privately, but publicly. Just want
to acknowledge Leon, worship director. Just navigating
that moment beautifully. But where I really
like, I'm so proud of him.

Yeah.

Because at 12:30, he didn't try and
force a tab.

Right? Right.

And there's so many worship leaders that
would have been like, let's replicate 10:30.
It was like, no, God did something
special, but let him do what he
wants to do in. In different spaces
at different times. And like, I'm. I'm
so proud of him for that. Because
I think the temptation would have very
much been, yeah, let's do this.

Try to push and let's generate.

Let's go even bigger.

Yeah, yeah.

We don't even have another sir. We
can go for three hours.

Right, right. No, that's true. That was
a good perspective. And that's also obedience.
And it shows. Like, he surrendered and
he submitted to God.

Yeah, yeah.

Because I think that there is a
danger sometimes in just trying to chase
the emotion.

Yes.

And especially after you've just been blindsided
by. By how amazing God is. You're
just like, you're so desperate for just
that to happen again, and now all
of a sudden you're putting God in
a new box.

Yeah. Like he.

He jumped out of the one you
had and now you got a new
one for him. Well, God only moves
when he interrupts. And it's like, no,
no. He can move by interruption and
he can move by planning.

So where do we go from here?
Like, is there a takeaway from it?
And these are just. I know, you
know, I'm not the co host. I'm
sorry.

No, go ahead. I mean, I think
that's a valid question.

What do you do with that? Right.
Is it. Is it a one off
or is it a lesson? Like, is
it. Is it something where God is
directing or confirming? And that's more of
a philosophical question. We don't know the
mind of God per se, but that's
just an internal question for me to
remain sensitive. Like, God, are you confirming

(13:27):
something to say. Yeah, you got it
right. Or it's. It's not even. Or
it can be. And. And I want
to direct something. You know, you were
thinking this or whatever.

So I think if the simplified version,
I think it is just a reminder
of who's actually in charge of the
service. Like, so we're. What does that
mean for. So tomorrow we're gonna have
a service planning meeting for this coming
Sunday?

Yeah.

Does that mean we just show up
and we're like, all right, guys, like,
let's just let him do the thing.

We don't need this meeting anymore.

I guess we can cancel this one
from the calendar. No, like, we, we
continue doing our part, like what we're
supposed to do, but it's just an
acknowledgment that God, if you want to
interrupt, like, interrupt like we got. We
have no problem if we have a
Sunday where three services go by and
no sermon is preached. Yeah, I got
no problem with that.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I think it showed where we are,
where we are as a church. It
shows, like, we are submitted to him.
We do believe instruction and order. But
we. I don't know, it was like
a. I don't know, it was a
perfect balance of like, okay, we recognize
this is a moment that God is
moving and we submit it to him.

(14:41):
And I don't know, it may be
this Christian atheist series just really is
punching us in the gut, you know?
And then you preached a good message,
that 8:30 service about the reverence of
God and like, how can you skip
past, you know? So I feel like

(15:02):
you're wrestling with something deeper.

Well, well, it's a. It's a. It's
a. It's a self. It's a self
check. Yeah, right. Biblically, you just had
these times where when God would do
something, they would set something up to
say, don't forget. Yeah, right. And so
it's the memorial stones. Yeah, it will
be memorial stones. And not to, not

(15:25):
to per se, like, worship or deify
the memorial stones. But it is a
testimony. And one of the things I
would say that we have, we. We've
lost is what we used to call
testimony services. It was a retelling of
the goodness of God over time. And

(15:47):
people's faith will be ignited to say,
wait a minute, if he did it
for you or if he did it,
then that's the same God that can
do it again and do it for
me and do it in my family.
And so not per se, like, I'm
not wrestling with it, but I also
want to honor and respect that. When
God shows up in such a manifested

(16:08):
way, I try to pause to say,
God, what are you saying? Like, what
is the memorial here in. Is it.
You know, I don't want to be
like Peter, like on the Mount of
Transfiguration, like, let's set up some altars
and stuff. This is awesome. Let's build
a tent. Yeah, I don't want to
do that. I'm not saying to do
that, but I do want to reflect
and make sure that I'm not moving

(16:30):
on to the next thing for the
sake of let me get back on
my schedule. So that's all. It's just
in many ways, I just try to
slow down because I know with God
I can go further, faster and deeper
if I just wait on him. Than
me toiling to move forward and get
it done and replicating and let's do

(16:51):
it again. Let me just pause. God,
what are you. What was there a
lesson that you need me to learn?

The thing that. Sorry, you Were going
to say something. I just jumped in.
The thing that I love about a
day like yesterday for our church is
the. The church we're trying to build
here is a church that is balanced
in our awe and love and passion

(17:19):
for God's Word, but also for his
presence. And I think what ends up
happening. And this. I want to say
this without it being, like, shade or
negative or anything, because that's not my
intent. But I think that there are
a lot of church that either have
one or the other. Like, there's some
great churches that have just a passion
for the word of God. But you

(17:39):
go in and it just feels like
I think God's in a different place.
I don't think he's hanging out here.
Like, it just. There's a lack of
the presence of God and then there's
places where it's like the worship and
the presence of God, it feels so
good. And then it's like they pull
out their Bible and nobody knows chapter
or verse for anything. And it's just
kind of like there's a lack of

(18:00):
solid teaching. And so what I love
is what we're really trying to do
with Disciples Church is a place where
you can come and experience the full,
the real, true presence of God and
then also have just this respect and
love for His Word that actually leads
us and guides us and corrects us
and challenges us. So, like a church
that loves both. Yeah, I think that's

(18:21):
what I want to see.

No, that's good. I was going to
say, too. It's. I think it was
a lot of individual lessons that God
was, you know, showing us yesterday. Like,
for me, I can get into work
mode and devotional time for me can
look scarce. You know what I mean?
And so for me, it was a
reminder to make sure that I'm doing

(18:42):
that first and I'm submitted in that
way. And yeah, I know some good
things are going to come from yesterday
for me because I know Lashawn called
me out on stage with the healing.

Nobody knew that until you decided.

I know, but it goes along with
what I'm about to say. Literally, it
goes a lot. So it wasn't just
like, he knows I've been dealing with,
like, some health things, nothing traumatic. But
for me, healing wasn't just for, like,
body. It was spiritual and mental. And
so I received that and it set
me back in alignment with, like, where

(19:15):
I'm supposed to be and who was
supposed to be priority. And, like, I
think that will regulate everything else in
my life. So I Love it. Yeah.
But, yeah, man, that was a whole
little deep dive into our encounter here
at Discipleship.

Can I say one last about it?
One lesson is that there are some
people in our church who have never
been in that situation.

Oh, yeah.

Let's not take it for granted.

Yeah, that's good.

There are some people who have. They've
been here for three or four weeks.
They've been here for maybe six months
or whatever, and. Or I can say
they've never been in a church situation.
I met a guy who had never
been to church, and he was there
yesterday.

Wow.

So I'm sure he was sitting there.

Like, what did he say?

I didn't talk to him afterwards. I
was just walking by him, and I
didn't recognize him. Not that I recognize
everybody, but I just stopped and spoke
to him. He was like, yeah, man.
I said, so you know where you
come from? He was like, just kind
of saw someone online, and I walked
in, you know, it's like, wow. And
he did know someone who attends here,

(20:21):
and that person was online or something.
So there was, like, a connection. He
says, well, I decided to show up,
but I'm not from church, man. You
know, so I'm just here hanging out,
like, wow. And that was his experience
there. So there are some individuals who
can appreciate, I think, the intellectual side
of things. They can appreciate the Word.

(20:42):
And. And then they were in this
space to say, whoa, there's something different.
And they're all in it. And as
a church, I think this is where.
This is the position we should be
in. They're all in, what is this?
What is this? And then it causes
them to draw near and to figure

(21:03):
out, okay, I know you outside of
here, and you're cool and you're regular.
And then I also see you on
your knees and whatever this thing is
happening, you're crying and you're. Let's talk
about this. What in the world is
happening?

Yeah. I think that yesterday was a
great reminder of something that my wife
and I say to each other a
lot is if people are coming to
our church to find God, if all
they find is us, we have a
problem.

Yeah.

So, like, we want to make sure
that when somebody comes to Disciples Church,
they're. They're finding God, not just a
TED Talk on a stage.

Yeah.

So yesterday was a good.

Great description, though. I mean, no, that.
That's. I appreciate that.

That's where we are in 2025. It's
a lot of TED talks.

TED talks on stage. I appreciate that.
Yeah. But.

But okay, let's unpack yesterday's message. You
ended the series because there was a
message.

I did, yeah.

He did actually preach twice.

Yeah, you did. And so you ended
us with the last series of Christian
atheists with the fear of the Lord.
So give a quick summary. I know
those who are watching who did not
attend Sunday, they was like, man, I
need to. Where can I watch this
10:30 service? Okay, so this is what.
The service is real. The sermon was

(22:22):
really about the fear of the lor.
So unpack that for us really quickly.

So I gave an equation. So the
fear of the Lord is awe or
reverence for God plus obedience plus worship.
And it is all of those things,
not just one. And you see this
in different aspects of the Bible from
Genesis to Revelation and everywhere in between,

(22:48):
you see this phrase fear of the
Lord or the fear of God or
fearing God. And so it means that
in every aspect of our life, we
awe God for his character, period. You
just look at him and recognize that
he is God, he is special, he's
in a category all by himself. And

(23:10):
then you also let that awe lead
to your obedience to him. So our
right response, that awe is not just
to be in awe and to be
stationary. It moves us to say this,
God is calling me to do something.
And that do something is not just
always movement, but sometimes it's transformation internally

(23:32):
where, no, I just want to work
on this. You're going to do this,
or it is go do this, say
this, what have you. And then ultimately
it leads to. And also I should
say, it's not always in a row,
but it leads to worship, which includes
sacrifice of something. And so there is
something that God will call us to
do in all of him and who

(23:53):
he is. He calls us to obey.
He will also say, and this needs
to go. This is a part of
you that I am working on. And
I need you to sacrifice this. And
as you sacrifice and as that, there's
a gap in your sacrifice, I fill
it. And that's our sanctification process. So
that's, that's the awe of God in

(24:13):
terms of how I saw it. And
I didn't even get, and this is
a big subject, I didn't even get
to all the benefits of the awe
of God, which I think we rush
to because we always want to seek
what is. It's in it for me.
Real all means what's in it for
me is that I'm in your presence.
Yeah. If nothing happens after that, that
was enough to transform me.

So, yeah, Bible says Fear of the
Lord is the beginning of wisdom. So,
like, you need some direction in your
life. Like, maybe you need to get
back in alignment with. With who God
is. I think this is where the
English language fails us a little bit,
because you hear the word fear and
you immediately think, like, terror, right? Like,
you think a scary movie. You think
like. Like, whatever. Like, so when we

(24:56):
talk about the fear of the Lord,
like, it paints this picture of, so
I'm supposed to be afraid of him.
And it's like, no, fear in this
context is not about being afraid.

Right.

And I think that's where your grandpa
story was such a. Such a perfect
example, because what it did is, yes,
there was a little bit of, now
I'm afraid of my grandpa, but it
was in recognition to, oh, he don't
play. Right. Like, he has a power
and authority in my life that I
was starting to take for granted. And
so I think. I think a lot
of us need God to just grab

(25:27):
us by the ankles and dangle us
upside down. Hey, let me just remind
you of who I am, because you're
starting to forget, because I really wear
the Jesus is my homeboy T shirt
for too long, and you forgot that
I am God Almighty.

He's not just the big man upstairs.
You know what I mean?

Man, that's so good.

Ultimately, it's just this tendency for man
to elevate self and diminish God in
some type of way in our actions,
in our thoughts, how we consider His
Word, which points to Pastor Carlton's sermon.
It's this tussle to always figure out
a new way to make God closer

(26:05):
to me in terms of who he
is and. Or elevating me to be
closer to him in terms of myself.
And that's the story of mankind. Always
pulling God down and moving us up.
So I did that my grandfather never
had to do. Never. Never had to.

Ain't got to worry about you no
more.

Never had to be corrected by my
grandfather again. He just showed me a
different aspect of him that I was.

Some lessons you only need once.

I only needed that once. You know,
I only needed that once.

But I thought. I thought that was
a perfect example because that's what fear
of the Lord looks like.

Yeah. Yeah.

It's when you recognize his power, his
authority, who he is, and you recognize
that it should put you in a
place of awe.

Yeah.

And obedience and worship.

Because, like.

Yeah, no, he is. He's still God.

Yes. No. So what I wanted to
do was kind of what we done
with the podcast we did some questions
that people may have. And so I
got from our good friend. I'm not
going to tell you who, but some
questions that people may have about the
fear of the Lord. And you answered
the first one, but I'll just ask

(27:16):
it again. You can say, I already
answered it. Okay, but isn't fear a
bad thing? Why would God want us
to fear Him?

Yeah, it's not a bad thing. Fear
is not. The fear that we're talking
about is not to be afraid of
God. He actually wants to move us
to friendship with him and intimacy. So
the fear of anything else, a dog,
whatever it repels, it moves us away
from, to protect ourselves. The fear of

(27:48):
the Lord moves us closer to him.
And that's the ultimate purpose, is to
move us back in union with him
and in unity with him and back
in service of him and worship of
Him. So it is not a bad
thing. When we're talking about the fear
of the Lord. And if we're doing
it the right way, you will start
to see that this intimacy and this

(28:09):
closeness is refreshing. Scripture says that the
fear of the Lord is pure and
it's everlasting. And so it's in his
perfect love, actually cast out all fear.
So his perfect love, fearing the Lord
will cast out the negative fear, to
say, you don't have anything to be
afraid of. This is where you should

(28:31):
be. I'm the best place for you.
So, no, it's not that level of
fear. It draws us closer.

Yeah. And that's where English language sometimes
fails us. Like, I think that that
probably even becomes more clear in the
Hebrew where it's like, there's clearly a
word that's being used for this type
of thing, and there's a word being
used for this type of thing. And
in English, we just kind of blend
those together.

Right.

That makes sense. Okay, cool. The next
question is, how do I know if
I actually fear the Lord?

Formula, right? You gave it to. In
the formula.

Yeah, yeah. It's usually around. First of
all, it's obedience. Like, the fear of
the Lord is always connected to obedience,
period. So the areas where you don't
obey, you don't have fear for him
in that space. And that. That's. You
can. You know, the Holy Spirit is

(29:28):
in you. He's convicting you. If your
conscience is still sensitive to Him. You
know, when you are drifting and you
make excuses, you provide reasons why you
don't have to. And that negotiating is
a space where you need to say,
wait a minute, who's who? Lord, I

(29:49):
don't fear you in this space because
I'm doing too much to try to
get what I want. That's one indication
is where you are, where you have
delayed obedience.

I was gonna say. You said that
in your message yesterday.

Delayed obedience.

I need you to unpack that because
I definitely have a lot of delayed
obedience. So what does this mean for
me?

You're just growing.

None of us are perfect. Am I
cast away? Am I cast away? Have
God turned his back on me?

No.

Okay.

You know, and this is where the
personal walk.

I can't.

This is where. Well, no, no. And
the personal walk is so important because
I could give you 25 things that
if you don't do those things, you
are walking in the fear of the
Lord. And I could be right. And
then the Lord will give you a
personal conviction where he says, well, not
for you. That doesn't work for you.

(30:47):
I have a place you're going, a
calling on your life, a people that
you will speak to, or a place,
you know, that you won't be able
to do that. One thing on the
list of to do on the 25,
or he will make it 26. And
so how do you know, really, is
this personal walk where conviction, again, delayed

(31:08):
obedience within how you sacrifice and worship.
I have always learned the places where
I'm unwilling to sacrifice is probably where
I need to die to. Like, that
is where God is like, no, I'm
working on that.

That's something that's become an idol or
a substitute, as you put it.

Absolutely.

I've got this thing that I'm elevating,
and if I'm not willing to let
go of it, then it's become a
bad thing in my life. It's. I'm
putting her on blast. I didn't get
her permission, but I love her. She
loves me enough. And it's vague enough
that actually she didn't tell me the
details, but I was talking with my
mother after. After the 10:30 service, and
she was still just kind of wrecked

(31:47):
by everything.

And.

And she was like, at the start
of. Of that moment, she's like, I
just told God. Like, because she had
already heard the 8:30 service. She's like,
I've put everything on the altar. Like,
I've. I've for 50, since I was
in my 20s. Like, I've. I have
sacrificed for you. I've put my entire
life on the altar. What more is
there for me to give? And the
Holy. The Holy Spirit. She said the

(32:08):
Holy Spirit just like, pointed at One
thing in her life, and she was
like, oh. And it was just. It
was such a beautiful moment because, like,
my mother's on the. It's 50 years.
Like, she's like, in 50 years of.
I mean. And I've watched her, yeah.
Like, give everything to God. And after
50 years of giving everything to God,

(32:30):
the moment. She got a little bit
prideful in that I got.

I've done it all.

Yeah.

He was like, that thing right there.
And I was like, man, that makes
me feel so much better.

So much better.

Because I haven't been in this as
long as you, and I think I've
got more than. He'd be pointing with,
like, all ten fingers. Like. Like that
and that and that and that.

Oh, my goodness. Here's what we see
biblically, especially if you're using the children
of Israel as kind of the prototype
or the example of mankind. They will
be doing well for a while.

Just read Judges. Just the cycle, you
will see.

And all of a sudden, they would
stray away. And I think that is
just mankind. There could be a space
where we are doing well, God is
pleased, and there is something within us
that we just can. A place of
victory. We revisit it and say, well,
I'm good there. Or I can. It's

(33:27):
not that bad. I've grown in this.
It's not the same. I was young
when I was doing it before, and
I can do it now. And so
when Paul says, look, take heed lest
ye fall. Like, if you think you're
good, you better be watching out, because
that may be the same place that
you're not so good. And so that,

(33:50):
again, is where this personal journey with
the Lord. That's why we absolutely need
to value the presence of the Holy
Spirit in us. And don't allow our
pride to flare up, our conscience to
be seared, or pride to start saying,
no. It's good that really. I've heard
this once and I love it. Satan

(34:11):
is, like, the biggest advocate for mankind.
He's a huge encourager for you to
just get everything you deserve, you deserve
to do. Yeah, you deserve to be
just like God, Eve. You deserve to
know more. Why would he do this?
Jesus, you deserve to eat. You deserve
these kingdoms. Just go ahead and do

(34:31):
it. And actually, I can give them
right to you. They've been given to
me because I actually want this for
you. So just ignore God. Listen to
me, so you can get everything you
want.

I know what's best for you.

I know what's best. I want what's
Best for you. Why would he keep
that from you? Why can't you go
there? So that script. Because we should
not be ignorant of the devices of
the enemy. That narrative is why we
just kind of drift. Because he's there,
and interesting enough, he will give us
that script and give us that narrative

(35:05):
and be the same one to be
the accuser of the brethren, go straight
to God and say, see?

So good.

I thought they were saved, man.

That was a good setup.

I mean, do they really fear you?

You ever have a brother that, like,
got you to do something wrong? And
then they were the one that went
to mom and was like, look what
he just did.

What is this for foolishness? These are
your people. These are the people you
chose, right?

Oh, my gosh.

So I think it's a natural tendency
for mankind to drift. And we are
forever needing the Holy Spirit to sanctify.
That's why he's in us, to sanctify
us, to make us more and more
and more like Christ. And just like
children of Israel, we'd be like, I
got a better way to just. I'd

(35:53):
rather do this. So sorry.

No, that's good.

You got these questions. I want to
make sure you cover these questions.

The questions are just to bring forth
conversation. No, that's good. That was a
good twist. I didn't.

Oh, you didn't see that coming.

I didn't see that coming. Because he
do play both sides.

He does.

I'm telling you. It's a mess. I'm
tired of getting used. I'm tired of
it.

Tired of being used. Tired of being
used. Okay, question number three. Does fearing
God mean I can't be close to
him? People want to know if intimacy
and fear can coexist.

Absolutely. That's the point. In Exodus, Moses
said, when they were at Sinai. Quick,
just condense that whole thing. You got
to read Exodus 19 and Exodus 20
to summarize Exodus 1 through 18. God
did all of these things to bring

(36:49):
him. Bring them to Sinai. He gave
them the privilege of being in his
presence like never before. And so God
said, listen, here are the structure. Here's
what you got to do. I'm going
to come down in a way. I'm
going to manifest myself in a way
where you will be able to hear
my voice directly when I'm talking to

(37:09):
Moses. And then there will be this
opportunity. And it's very interesting when you
read the. The text here in Exodus
19, because you could see it's like
God said, I'm going to allow this
horn to be blown. And that is
the one opportunity where you can come
up. This entire time, Moses has been
the one. But when you hear this

(37:31):
ram's horn, I'm allowing you to come
up a little farther. And so they
hear the ram's horn. And the Bible
says, they stood afar off. He gave
them that opportunity. He came down to
this one fixed place so that they
can come up and they stood afar
off. And Moses says to them, listen,

(37:52):
don't be afraid. This is actually not
the time to be afraid. This is
the time. He's saying, listen, he wants
to prove you and to help you
to see, okay, how much you need
him. But he actually came down for
you. This is so that you can
fear him and won't sin against him.
You can come closer, and they miss

(38:12):
that opportunity. So to answer your question,
again, if that's kind of the prototype,
there are these spaces where God is
saying, no, all of this. I delivered
you from Egypt. I've cleansed you of
these things. I proved myself. I gave
you manna and water. I did all
of that to bring you closer. So
if you fear me, I provide the

(38:32):
opportunity for you to experience me ever
before. So the fear of the Lord.
The fear of the Lord is for
the purpose of closeness, for intimacy. And
so, yes, it does coexist. Yeah.

I would just even go a step
further and just say, for a true
level of intimacy, the fear of the
Lord, style of fear is essential. You
have to have it. If I don't
have that kind of reverence for my
wife, I can sleep around. Yeah, I
can do all kinds of things to

(39:06):
hurt her because I'm not afraid of
it. Like, I don't have that. Like,
that reverence for her of saying, like,
she's precious. She is special. She is
unique. I'm in awe of her. And
I. I would never want to do
anything to hurt her. The moment I
remove that from our marriage, like, our
marriage is a joke, it becomes a
mess. And so I think the. Probably

(39:28):
all of these questions is always going
to come down to, do you have
the right understanding of the word fear?
Because if fear still means that you're
afraid of. Yeah, that's going to drive
you away. But the appropriate biblical fear
of the Lord is something that draws
you closer. And so, yeah, if you
want real relationship, real intimacy, there has

(39:49):
to be that level of respect and
honor and awe and reverence.

And 100%, you see how you just
shut down all my questions. Like you
said, all of these questions probably come
down to you. So you can just
Stop.

I haven't even. I haven't even heard
your questions. I haven't seen your questions.

Whatever you're going to say, whatever the
answer is, the answer is. Let's just
get to the end here. You have
a problem. Let me.

Let me land this plane. We ready
to go?

I got one more question.

Give me more. Give me a question.

Okay. What's the difference between the fear
of the Lord and legalism?

Ooh. Fear of the Lord is to
draw you into intimacy with God. Like
the purpose of it is relationship legalism.
The purpose of legalism is judgment. It's
criticism. It's. I'm going to hold this

(40:46):
thing over you. And so, yeah, I
think the difference between the two is
one of them is actually kind of
built to make you just feel bad,
and the other one is built to
make you closer to God. That'd be
my, my hot take.

I'll agree. And I'll structure it like
this. It's similar to the difference between
condemnation and conviction.

Yeah, yeah, there you go.

Right? It's. Where is the focus? The
fear of the Lord is about the
Lord. It points us to him. It
draws us to Him. Legalism is about
me, what I must do to be
right. And it's two different directions. Conviction

(41:29):
leads us to the Lord. It leads
us to repentance, it leads us to
sanctification so that he can get glory
and he can even love us through
that condemnation. I point at myself, I
feel bad. I did that, you know,
and guilt and shame come along with
that. And so that difference, legalism essentially

(41:52):
is it stretches out what God has
said, adds to it, and then points
to me so that I can walk
away from feeling better about myself. And
I'll add just a quick anecdote in
terms of not necessarily just legalism, but

(42:12):
the difference in terms of being able
to do something. Hebrews said that the
word of the Lord, it's alive, right?
It's sharp, two edged sword. It's so
sharp it can split like bone from
marrow, soul from spirit. It is that
just able to get to the root
of things. And the word of the

(42:33):
Lord is a discerner of the thoughts
and intent of the heart. And so
I had this very. In my marriage,
I was doing all the right things
and I was studying that scripture and
I said, man, that's a good word.
I love the word of the Lord,
right? It's so good. And I was
doing all the right husband things. And
one day a friend of mine asked

(42:55):
me if I was being selfish because
I was like man, my wife, she
don't appreciate me enough. You know, I
was in that kind of, I'm doing
this, and I'm doing that. I'm doing
this. And I was. I remember being
in public in a mall, walking around,
fussing, and Holy Spirit said, listen, you're
only doing it to build your resume.

(43:17):
The reason you're doing this, paying a
bill, and, you know, you took her
to this restaurant. Whatever you want to
say, you're trying to build your resume
to check the boxes. I want to
discern your heart and intent behind it.

So good.

And in public, in the middle of
this mall, I'm weeping. Just. I mean,
I'm trying not to, like, audibly say
anything, but, like, tears are flowing because
in that moment, he gets to the
heart of it. I was doing things
to point to myself. He's saying, no,
you are a husband to point to

(43:52):
me. And if you don't have the
heart behind it, you're off target, bro.
And so that, again, is an illustration
of the difference between legalism, checking the
boxes to say it can point to
my perfection and how great I am
versus the fear of the Lord that
says, you actually are demonstrating the love
of Christ for his church. You better

(44:14):
straighten up. That's not how we do
things. It's, you need to get right.
And so once we get to this
dichotomy where we have to pick, like,
wait, should I do more stuff? Actually
fear me so that I can tell
you what to do? Because it's about
me. So hopefully that gives how deeply
it runs.

I love that. That balance of, you
know, is it about you or is
it about him?

Yeah.

And I think that one thing I
want to add, you mentioned, like, the
conviction versus condemnation. And I think there.
There's a danger right now of people
pendulum swinging to the opposite end. Like,
they were in a legalistic space.

Right.

And so they swung the pendulum to,
like, a free for all. Right. And
now even when there's conviction, they're like,
oh, that's legalism. It's like, no, like,
the Bible just says, like, don't do
this thing. Right. You're doing this thing.
And so, like, here, like, maybe you
want to read it and live it.
And so, like, we do have to
be careful in how we try and

(45:16):
compensate for maybe some wounds. And I
think, especially people our age, like, if
you grew up in the 90s.

Yeah.

Like, you were probably in a very
legalistic space.

Yeah.

Because it was just. That was like
the. That was the thing in the
90s. And so, like, you Got to
be careful not to swing so far
from that. But now it becomes this
free for all because. And this ties
back into the message. When you've got
that free for all, you've lost the
fear of the Lord.

Right.

Like, now you're not walking in obedience
to him or His Word because you're
like, oh, but grace is free. And
it's. You know, we're gonna keep on
doing whatever we want to do, and
Jesus loves me anyways. And yeah, it's
just. It becomes kind of a hot
mess.

Here's a hot take. And I'm gonna
probably get in trouble where I fear.
And I think where it hides is,
is people use the phrasing. It's relationship
over religion. Like, you know, or it's
not religion, it's relationship.

Yeah. Which is stupid.

And under. Okay, so you made it
worse. So, you know, don't come for
me, go for him. I didn't say
it was stupid.

His brand is to call it everything.

I didn't say it was stupid.

Linguistically, Christianity is a religion.

Like, a religion is just like, to
realign to God.

That's essentially how you pronounce process. Like
your relationship with God, it's called religion.
Like, by definition, you're in a religion.

Right.

It's also a relationship. Sorry, I jumped.

No, I mean, but. But again, I
think when we use that phrasing, a
lot of times it's hiding where we
want our liberty to make. To allow
us to sin. And so we're not
submitting. And we don't fear God in
those spaces of our. Our sexuality, our
body. And. Well, you know, it's not
about religion. It's about relationship. And I'm
walking with. With him, and I don't

(46:58):
have to go to a church anymore.
You know, I'm spiritual. It's all of
these catchphrases that are under this. This
umbrella of we just lack the fear.
Fear of the Lord, you know, and
you.

And you hit it. Like, what ends
up happening is. And I don't know
which one comes first necessarily, but there's
an abandonment of church and abandonment of
scripture.

Yeah.

And it's like. Because that's religion, but
I'm in relationship. It's like, how do
you even know what he likes in
this relationship?

Right.

Like, it's from reading your word. Like
it's from the Bible.

Right.

And when you're off by yourself and
you think you're doing so hot, you
actually need the church to be able
to say, hey, we're just going to
talk about this Issue that you probably
don't think you have, but we're going
to talk about it for a little
bit and the Holy Spirit's going to
be like, hey, he's talking about you.
Like, we, we need these religious structures
in our lives in order to have
the relationship. When you abandon the one,

(47:49):
you don't get the other.

I stepped on a whole bunch of
toes.

It's okay. We're pastors, we're supposed to.
Okay. I mean, really. And that's part
of the. Okay, no soapbox. Part of,
part of, part of. I think what
we're missing with that pendulum swing, we
forget like what pastors and fivefold, right.
We take this, the five fold thing,
we run with it. So everybody's everything

(48:13):
now. But really, leadership gifts in the
church were for equipping the saints, helping
the saints to do the work of
ministry. If you start deviating away, especially
from people who are pastors, who are
supposed to lead the flock, help the
flock, protect you, teachers who are giving

(48:33):
you the word, giving you kind of
what this actually means, once you start
rejecting that, you're ultimately rejecting God's structure
and how you, he wants to direct
you. And so that does include stepping
on some toes. And that, that is
how the Lord uses the church to
mature us, uses leaders to help us

(48:54):
and to sanctify us. It doesn't always,
and I know I said this in
terms of personal relationship. This is the
balance of that. It's not so personal.
It becomes isolation. And it's not so
personal because you get off to yourself.
That's when the enemy is there giving
you what you want. But pastors are
to say, hey, that's kind of out

(49:15):
of line. That's not what the word
says. Because theoretically we are putting in
the work to truly stay before God,
to hear what the Holy Spirit is
saying, interpret the text correctly, to say,
this is what it meant then to
that people, this is what it means,
period, in terms of the principle and
this is how we properly apply it
today. And that will step on some

(49:38):
toes. That was my soapbox to say.

Okay, and then just real quick, just
want to admonish. Pastors need a pastor
too.

Yeah.

For the same exact reason. Because like,
just like we're sitting here as pastors
saying, like, you can't be your own
pastor. Like you need somebody else in
your life. Like, even if you are
the pastor, you still need a pastor
because you still are just as susceptible
to that whole. I'm just, I'm just
trying to do my own thing and
I'm focused on myself, and I'm not
gonna call out my own sins and

(50:06):
my own stuff. Like, you need the.
The somebody else in your life that
can step on your toes.

Accountability.

We. Yeah, we all need all. All
offices to be functioning.

Love that. Y' all dropping some. Some
gems on here. Amen.

Questions.

It's all your questions. So great.

A couple more. Okay, thank you. Thank
you, guys. All right, question number five.
Does the fear of the Lord applied
to New Testament believers, or was this
only for the Old Testament? I think
you cut. Kind of covered that in
your message.

I did. I can't believe. Let me.
Let me get over. Let me get
over myself. Even if it was just
Old Testament, all of the scripture has
been given for us to learn to
be. To be cut and built by.
Like, so even if it was just
in the Old Testament, it would be

(51:02):
for today.

Zero power.

Yeah, I'm sorry. I'm just saying, like,
people have these questions, and I understand,
and I just want to make sure
that we're clear that all scripture is
God breathed. All scripture is God inspired.
And even if he put it in
the Old Testament, it would still be
revealed in some way in the New.
But it is absolutely in the New

(51:28):
Testament. Paul calls us to be living
sacrifices, holy and acceptable. We are still
to fear him.

Jesus said, fear the one who can
destroy your flesh and your spirit.

Yes, yes. So I understand the question.
But all scripture is God breathed. It
is for us to do.

And there's something to. So next year,
we start this journey through the New
Testament. And, like, the thing that's been
so hard for me is like, I
don't want to miss the Old Testament.
I'm the guy that. I love the
Old Testament. I get on people all
the time. You don't even understand the
New Testament unless you read the Old.
There's so many things. There's so many
phrases, there's so many pictures, there's so

(52:10):
many examples, so many things that are
happening in the New Testament that are
built on the foundation of the Old
that you don't even have a full
grasp of what that even means when
you're reading the New Testament. This is
one of my favorite. But when you're
reading in the New Testament about how
you can come boldly before the throne
of grace because of what Christ did,
like, that is cool. In the New
Testament. Yeah, Old Testament, that's like a.

(52:33):
Wait, what? Like, no, no, no, no.
The throne. Like, no, that. That space
is like, if you go in there
in the wrong way, you die. Like,
this is like not a spiritual death,
but like a literal. Like we have
to tie a rope around you and
drag your carcass out of that room
because you were unfit to be in
the presence of God. Like it when

(52:54):
you understand the Old Testament, because when
Jesus was teaching, he was teaching from
the Old Testament. When Peter, Paul, James,
John, when all these guys are teaching
and writing the New Testament, they're quoting,
they're referencing, they're pulling from the Old
Testament, they're. They're saying, hey, just like
you read in the Scriptures, here's how
Jesus fulfills it today. So it's like

(53:15):
the Old I. I can get on
a soapbox.

Yeah.

The Old Testament.

And I have a feeling we're not
gonna miss out on the Old Testament.
Yeah, you're gonna, you're gonna make sure
we get a lot.

And that's where it's like, okay, so
some of the, some of the moments,
some of the stories in the Old
Testament, we may not hit or you
won't hit them for a while, but
like so much. I mean, when we
finally get through Matthew, like the book
of Matthew is just the Old Testament.
Hebrews.

Yeah.

Hebrews is just the Old Testament. Like,
it's just, it's repackaged.

Yeah.

But it's the Old Testament.

Yeah.

And I'll just say this to kind
of conclude it, but in Isaiah, when
Isaiah is prophesying about Jesus, he talks
about the spirit of wisdom will be
upon him, the spirit of knowledge, and
the spirit of the fear of the
Lord will be his delight. And he's
talking about Jesus, the spirit of the
fear of the Lord is what Jesus
delighted in. And so that direct reference,

(54:06):
Jesus just walked around fearing God. And
again, fearing God is obedience and it's
worship. And that you saw Jesus continually
point to God in reverence. Our Father
who art in heaven, hallowed. Holy is
your name. That is the personification, the

(54:28):
greatest illustration of the fear of God
in Jesus teaching us how to pray.
You are holy, you are separate. I
am reverencing you, and I'm a walk
out. There's nothing that I do. Jesus
was saying, there's nothing that I do
that I don't. I didn't first see
the Father is nothing I'm doing outside
of what he's directing me to do.
That. That is the fear of the
Lord in action.

So, yeah, the Garden of Gethsemane is
like the most beautiful picture of that
right there. Jesus was afraid of the
death he was about to experience to
the point where he is sweating blood
like Blood is pouring out of him
at the anguish and the turmoil and
the literal fear in the American context

(55:11):
of fear of what's about to happen.
And yet, because of his fear of
the Lord, he says, not my will,
but your will be done. There's an
obedience. There's a sacrifice, There's a. I
am terrified of this thing.

Yeah.

But I honor you too much. I
reverence you too much to let this
other kind of fear stop me.

Beautiful.

That is good. These are some good.

So funny. Some good questions. Questions. Yes,
yes.

Praise the Lord.

One of these days I'm going to
have the phone with all the questions,
and we're just going to make taisha.

I love this space for me. This
is good. I get to gleam from
the wisdom years above me. Years.

That was.

Next question, next question. All right, just
a couple more. Is the fear of
the Lord. Well, can you love God
and still fear him? And I mean,
can you love God and not fear
him?

No, no, no. Again, it's a package
deal. If you love me, you will
obey my commandments. The fear of the
Lord includes obedience. Period. Love and obedience
are tied, so it's almost like A
plus B equals C, and, you know,
all that kind of stuff. That's math.

(56:24):
I don't remember it. But it's a
package. So true love includes obedience. And
that obedience will always drive us to
fear the Lord. So, no, you cannot
have just, you know, I just love
you. I just love God. And that's.
That's.

That's a Christian atheist. I just love
you, but I never obey.

Yeah. I would say what you actually
are doing, you're loving your idea of
God, you're loving your creation.

Yes. Yeah. Right.

You've created God to be this thing,
and now you love this thing. But
if you actually love God, you will
fear him.

Yeah, that's good. That's good. All right.
What happens when someone doesn't fear the
Lord? So what can happen to someone
if they don't fear him?

You become a Christian atheist.

Yeah.

You walk in disobedience. Yeah.

And walking in disobedience. You know, here's.
First, I'll say this. It is possible
to live a long life and not
fear the Lord and have every semblance
of success. Let me be very clear
about that. Every semblance, you have stuff.

Insert billionaire's name here.

Correct. So it's not about if you
don't fear the Lord, your life is
a wreck. All right, So I want
to take that off the table. Like,
if you don't fear God, you're just
going to. No, it's actually a lot
of people that do not fear God.
And they, they do. Well, they just
subscribe to a different kingdom.

Okay.

And the, the leader of that kingdom
is able to bless them. Okay. So
let me, let me at least set
that stage so it's not about what
you see. This ultimately gets to the
point where when we appear before, when
we come to judgment and we have
to give an account of everything we
do, there is an ultimate penalty. So
we can't just look at what happens

(58:14):
now. The ultimate penalty is that the
Lord will look at the person and
say, I actually don't know you. You
didn't, you didn't obey me. You didn't
worship me. You didn't see me as
I am. So you're actually just have
to. I'm going to have you depart
to my left because I don't know
you. I had no relationship with you
on earth, and so I will have

(58:34):
no relationship with you in eternity. And
so that's what happens. And I want
to, I'm saying it in this way
because I need us to get away
from the, this superficial evidence that, yeah,
I must be fearing the Lord because
I'm. And I'm a point to. In
Matthew, when Jesus says, depart from me.

(58:55):
I never knew you before. The response
is the people. They said, but I
prophesied. So I had. My gifts were
working. So this is obviously someone who
was active in church and stuff like
that. You prophesied, huh? But I don't
know you. I actually loved the people
that you were in front of more
than I love you right now. So

(59:16):
you prophesied so that I can keep
my promise to them. I'll give you
some. Really, that showed up in this.
In Exodus, this is Exodus 34, when
God says, I'm going to keep my
promise to you. He says, but if
I go with you, I'll probably kill

(59:37):
you. You are a stiff neck, people.
So I'm going to allow you to
go into the promise, but instead of
me going, I'm going to send an
angel with you. And I stopped there
and I said, wait. He will keep
his promise. His word will never fail.
But you will have a semblance of
God. That's like a diminished his presence.

(01:00:00):
And that's when Moses interceded and said,
lord, we don't want to go if
you're not going with us. Now hold
on, hold on, stop. I mean, that's
like that consolation prize.

Pastor Brent McQuay (01:00:09):
We don't want.

Pastor Jason Parks (01:00:10):
Yeah, we don't want Your angel, an
angel to go on your behalf with
us. Just. I get it. And so
it is possible to have a semblance,
to have some evidence of God keeping
his promise without his presence. And so
once we start looking, and when you
put those two things together in the

(01:00:31):
Old Testament, God told the stiff neck
people, I'll send, I'll allow things to
happen and get these promises for me
to keep my promise, but my presence
won't go. And then you see in
the New Testament, Jesus saying, you will
have these gifts because I'm going to
keep promises to the people that are
praying to me at your church. But

(01:00:53):
Pastor, I know you profit, but I
don't know you. And so these two
things help me to be very grounded,
that I should not look at my
gifts, I should not look at my
bank account, I should not look at
who likes me as any type of
reason to think that I am fearing
God properly because I can be in
a space and have, have the results

(01:01:14):
of something without the presence of God.
I don't want that. So that was
my soapbox moment because I am afraid.
I'm afraid for people. I am afraid
for people to keep looking at these
superficial, natural things, thinking God must be
with me. Yeah. It's not the case.
Okay.

And, and just, just read, read the
New Testament again.

Yeah.

Like look through Paul, the suffering Paul
experienced. Yes, but I would say Paul
had a great fear of the Lord.

Yes.

And yet he wasn't wealthy.

Right.

He didn't have, you know, a big
house and a fancy car and a
beautiful wife, fancy camel or whatever the
equivalent.

I mean, they didn't have cars. So,
you know, you gotta, you gotta help.

But yeah, like, he. So like, by,
by those standards of, well, if there's
a blessing, then it's financial. Well, then
none of the people that actually feared
the Lord were blessed. And in your
context or in your phrasing. Yeah, but
the Bible would say they were blessed.

Absolutely.

Yeah. And I, So there's, there's something
else that maybe I shouldn't even bring
up because I'm still trying to tease
this out and, and doing some study
on my own. But there is also
what appears to be a concept throughout
Scripture of your level of knowledge dictates,
like your level of required obedience in

(01:02:34):
the sense of like, too much has
been given, much is required. And so
I think that that would possibly put
Elon Musk in a different category than
somebody who's in church reading their Bible.
Like, and so that, that's where I'm
like, I'm still trying to tease this

(01:02:55):
kind of thing out. And so, like,
when you say you can be blessed
and. Or from the appearance of blessing
without actually fearing the Lord, I think
that you could also say that there
are some Christians that when you stop
fearing the Lord, your life may fall
apart. Yeah, I think that I would
be. I would be comfortable in saying

(01:03:15):
that's a risk. I wouldn't want you
to take that because there's already an
expectation of obedience because you've heard the
name. You know what's required. You know
what you're supposed to do. Now you're
not living it out. Isn't out of
ignorance. It's about rebellion.

Yeah.

And I think ignorance and rebellion are
punished differently in Scripture.

Ti'heasha Beasley (01:03:38):
Y' all doing too much on this
podcast. I'm gonna have to go back
and watch it myself.

But that's still something I'm trying to
figure out.

That's heavy. I mean, it makes a
lot of sense.

But, man, rebellion is like witchcraft. The
Bible says it's the same as witchcraft,
which is an abomination. And so that.
That rebellion piece is so dangerous. And
this is that. That's why. That is
why I'm just afraid for people that
don't truly seek God and read the
Word because they can be ignorant of

(01:04:10):
it, but also get to the point
where we are substituting God. And we.
That's where you have. I would, you
know, I would rather have the zodiac
tell me who I am, because God,
you know, I don't like what God
is saying or what he said. I'd
rather have the Zodiac. You know, my.
All these things, palm reading, all these
spiritual.

It's just like trusting a fortune cookie
more than, you know.

It's like, man, you are substituting what
God has made clear to you and
can continually make clear in order to
have something that is more certain. But
ultimately, you're getting into witchcraft in the
sense of not necessarily putting spells on
people, but in terms of rebellion. Like,

(01:04:55):
no, God, I don't trust you enough.
I don't trust your word. It's not
good enough for me. And that's why
I'm so afraid of people, especially when
they get into that rebellion piece. Not
the ignorance piece. But. But. And ignorance
can be solved through submission in the
word of God. It's an easy fix
for that. I mean, it's just, Lord,
I don't know. And that humility aligns

(01:05:17):
you with God. And the fear of
the Lord is the beginning of wisdom.
The fear of the Lord is the
beginning of knowledge. The Bible says And
the friendship of the Lord, He. He
reveals his secrets and his covenants. So
we have so much evidence within the
Word that says, even if you're ignorant,
starting with the fear of the Lord

(01:05:37):
is the beginning of you being able
to get over to that ignorance and
become wise.

Yeah. So part of where that. Teasing
it out, wrestling with this one right
now, is when Jesus talks about it
be better. The people in Sodom and
Gomorrah were better off because, like, they
didn't really know any better. Like, there
was. There was judgment against them, but
if they had seen what you see
now, they would have repented and you
haven't. And Jesus has this, like, confrontational

(01:06:04):
moment. Then there's also when Jesus says,
for anyone who leads one of these
young astray, it'd be better to have
a millstone tied around your neck and
tossed in the sea, because, again, it's
this indication that, like, you knew better
and then you were leading other people
into rebellion. Yeah, it's a heavy one.

That. That's.

That's where I'm like, there's too many
scriptures where I'm like, I'm excited for
next year.

I mean, I feel like y' all
cooking over there. I'm excited for next
year.

Okay, be excited. Because that. But that
thing comes down your block. It comes
down your road. You don't get excited.
You like, oh, man, like, I thought
I was good. I mean, it is
something to be excited about, but it
also brings a higher level of account
accountability to us that rightfully so. People

(01:06:52):
want to be ignorant of. Right. They.
They don't want to know that if
I leave someone astray with my. My
spiritual walk, then, like, I'm in big
trouble.

They'd rather have the scene in the
Matrix just eating the steak. You know,
ignorance is bliss, but it's not.

Just, help us, Jesus. Please help us.

Help us, Jesus. I mean, I think.
I always say. I think our conversations
are very timely. David and I were
just having a conversation about, like. And
not to, like, judge, but just we've
been to a lot of funerals the
last couple of weeks, and everyone. We
like to put everyone in heaven.

Right.

You know, And I was like. I
had a moment where I'm like, how
can we affirm where people are going?
Like, we don't know their hearts. Like,
we only God knows them that intimately.
So it just sent me down this
whole trail. And so I think this
was a good series to just not
even to look at other people, but

(01:07:49):
to align ourselves and be like, am
I living a Life of obedience. Am
I living in awe of Christ? Am
I, am I going to stand before
him and he's going to say, well
done? Or am I just going to
be in pride and not realize that
I've missed the mark? You know?

So, yeah, this has definitely been a
self reflective series. And the next one
we're going into is going to be
very. Also that.

Yes.

The exact same thing. Just doing it
again, just with different topics.

So come back to be beat up
some more.

Right, right.

It's gonna be fun.

We gotta tease them out. Let's tease
them. What are we, what are we
getting ready for?

So we're starting a new series called
Red Flags. Yes, but. And this totally
spoils my intro to the sermon, but
it's all right. It's not about looking
out the window. It's about looking in
the mirror. Because a lot of times
we talk about red flags, like, oh,
they got a red flag up. That's
your red flag up. That's your issue.
And we're just, we like to, you
know, stare out the window and point
at everybody else's issues. And so this

(01:08:44):
whole series is just about holding up
the mirror to ourselves and saying, okay,
do I have a red flag? Should
somebody else be looking at me going,
that's a problem.

I got a big log in my
eye.

That's, that's. Get out of my notes.

All right.

Okay, we're going to get out of
his notes.

So, yeah, so we're, we're going to
talk through extreme emotions. We're going to
talk through communication issues and we're going
to talk through savior complex. And that,
that one right there is going to
get.

Oh, no, I don't know.

I don't, I'm not coming, I'm not
coming to none of them because I'm
going get in trouble with all three
of them.

Yeah, I don't think there's gonna be
an easy Sunday for the next three
weeks. Maybe the Holy Spirit will show
up, preach, and everybody go home being
like, church was so great today. Not
man, the pastor was coming for me.

Right.

So, yeah.

Savior complex.

Yes. Well, let's end this plane. Let's
land it. But as we land, I'm
going to tell you what your land
should be.

Please do.

You couldn't even just say your own
right?

No, you tell me.

He's gonna, he wanted to talk a
little. He didn't get into the benefits
of fearing the Lord. I think that
would be a good landing, maybe.

Listen, the benefits, I did share some
of them and purposefully I didn't include
them in the sermon because the sermon
really was about the Lord and being
in his presence. The benefits are wisdom.
The benefits are knowledge. The benefits are
knowing God truly. The benefits are being

(01:10:24):
close to and near a pure God.
And that purity is everlasting. The benefits
in this friendship is knowing his secrets,
getting his understanding. The benefits is that
when you truly fear him, your seed,
your. Your seed will inherit the land.
You will have well being in your
soul. Like these are just some of
the. The benefits that are beyond tangible

(01:10:47):
things because again, it's not about the
tangible. But if you are wise, if
you are knowledgeable, if you are close
to the Lord, if your, your children
are blessed, those are all. They will
show up tangibly. So all of those
are just some of the benefits. The,
the fear of the Lord and through

(01:11:07):
obedience, it demolishes sin. It demolishes sin,
it breaks cycles. These are just all
things that show up in Proverbs, Psalms.
I would, I would suggest as we
come to the end of a month,
go into Proverbs and you will find
the fear of the Lord so many
times and there will be any even

(01:11:27):
more benefits that I can sum up.

Okay, that was good. Is that, do
you want that to be your takeaway?
I can't just tell you to make
that your takeaway.

My takeaway for me or what I'm.

Saying people are that are watching. What
would be the takeaway from yesterday's message?

Man, if you focus on the fear
of the Lord, it will literally change
your life, your spiritual and natural life.
So the takeaway is. I just admonish
you do a word search on this.
Because God wants to change our lives
for the better and make us closer

(01:12:06):
to Him. And the more we fear
him, the more we see him in
all of his aspects. And lastly, I
would just suggest doing through psalms, especially
a word search on the different aspects
of God where it will say the
Lord is. Because the more you see
God for who he is, the more
you are changed. And so when he

(01:12:29):
led me into that my own prayer
and devotion time, where it was simply
about knowing that he is marvelous, that
his name is a strong tower, that
he is a stronghold for us, that
he is our light and our salvation.
Like seeing those helped me to be
in more awe of Him. So I

(01:12:50):
would just admonish you read through Proverbs
to see what, what the fear of
the Lord does in us and also
begin to search the scripture for who
God is. And it's not always about
what we can get.

That's Good.

Love it. Beautiful.

Yeah. Thank you.

You wanna go next?

Sure. You can close us out this
time. I think for me, the thing
that is standing out to me is
the delayed, you know, obedience piece. I
think sometimes we can just take our
time. I think we have the right
to do that. But, like, fearing the
Lord is really like, when God is
speaking and showing you something is trusting

(01:13:29):
him is ultimately, when I'm delaying, it's
like, I don't trust that this is
gonna work out for my good, or
there's fear there. So I would just
say, you know, if God is speaking
to you, he's encouraging you to do
something. Repent for being. For delaying, and
really just get back in alignment. So

(01:13:49):
this message was good for me.

It's good stuff. For me, it's the
worship is sacrifice. We had talked about
it in sermon planning. Like, it really
does bug me. And I wish I
had a cleaner way of saying it
because I think yesterday I said it
and it was clunky and it probably
offended all the worship team members and
all this stuff. But it's like the.
We have the definition of worship. Wrong.
We have the definition of praise, right?

Yeah.

Like, we do praise the right way,
but worship is sacrifice. Old Testament, New
Testament. There's never a moment that I
can think of in the Bible where
worship was anything other than a sacrifice.
Yes, we praise him with tambourines and
songs. Like David talks about the praise.
But anytime worship is referenced that I
can think of, at least it involves

(01:14:33):
sacrifice. And so just a reminder for
us that worship his sacrifice. And then
I don't know if this is inappropriate,
because it wasn't. It was kind of
part of your message for me when.
When you referenced Romans 12. It's one
of my favorites. I've used it here
recently, too. But when I pulled it
up, for some reason this time, the

(01:14:55):
word therefore just slapped me in the
face. And it was like, how many
times have I disconnected Romans 11 from
Romans 12? And so going back into
Romans 11, and it ending with this
awesome gift. The Gentiles are now grafted
into the family of God. And then
he quotes Old Testament. He just basically
praises who God is. And he just
goes on and on and on about

(01:15:16):
how amazing God is. And then he
says, therefore, offer your lives as a
living sacrifice. It's like, when you have
a correct understanding of who God is,
your response is to worship him through
sacrifice. And then that's verse one. Verse
two is, now, don't be conformed to
the. The pattern of the world. Like,
so now Because I understand who God

(01:15:37):
is and because I'm worshiping him through
sacrifice, I'm now going to live differently.
It's like there's something about Romans 11
into Romans 12. And even just in
those few verses that's just like Paul
paints just such a amazing picture.

That's good, man. That's good. This is
a great conversation, I'm telling you. I
hope you guys are full like I
am. Ain't that what they said in
the old church?

I'm full, I'm full.

I'm full from this weekend. So much
happened on Sunday that we can only
attribute to God. It was a great
message. And then I think this conversation
really just put a pretty bow on
top of it. So praise God. We
hope you were blessed as much as
us. We, we be in our own
world here. We be forgetting we're actually
talking to people. But we hope you

(01:16:24):
were encouraged, encouraged by this episode, by
this entire sermon series. Christian atheist, I
encourage you go back, watch if you
haven't had an opportunity to watch all
of the sermons and then check out
the between sermons. Because we answered all
the questions you would have for every
week in regards to are you a
Christian atheist? And this is. We want

(01:16:45):
to provide hope. There is still hope.
You're watching this episode and you might
say I relate to this or that
really hit home. This is a great
opportunity to pause, submit to God, repent
and start over. Especially before we go
into that next series. Like we don't
want to go into the next series
with all these issues and then he
point out your red flag. So, sis,

(01:17:06):
brother, get it together. Get it together
now. But yes, we love you here
and until next time, we will see
you soon.

Sa.

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}When God Interrupts the Plan: Fear of the Lord, Awe & Obedience | Christian Atheist Finale