You Don’t Have a Communication Problem… You Have a YOU Problem

Episode Transcript
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Pastor Brent McQuay (00:00):
Foreign.
Welcome back to another episode of Between
Sermons. I'm your host, Brent. I am
the lead pastor at Disciples Church here
in Tinley Park, Illinois. And we are
hanging out today so we can take

(00:21):
the monologue from Sunday's sermon and turn
it into actual dialogue. We to dig
a little bit deeper, get a little
more practical, kind of give you a
glimpse into what it's like kind of
being in the. The room of a
small group. Hopefully you're doing that on
your own, getting into a room with
some other believers so you can talk
through some stuff. But we thought that
this, this would be beneficial. And we

(00:43):
are in a really cool series right
now called Red Flags. But we're not
looking at other people in judgment, although
that is so easy to do. You
can get so caught up in that.
But what we're really trying to do
in the series is look in the
mirror, see what God is kind of
pointing out in us. You know, David
prayed this prayer. He said, search me,
oh God, know my heart, know my

(01:03):
anxious thoughts. Point out any way in.
In me that that offends you any
grievous way in me. And it's just,
it's such a beautiful moment where the,
the window is turned into a mirror
and it's, hey, what's going on in
my life? And so that's what we're
doing for this series. And in order
to have this conversation, I have the.
The wonderful, the one and only co

(01:24):
host extraordinaire wearing her bright red jacket
because red is her color.

Ti'heasha Beasley (01:30):
Okay. I thought she was gonna hate
because you.

I ain't hating nothing.

Priti Idrovo (01:34):
That is. You look good in red.

I have paid attention. You've mentioned many
times that red is your color.

It is.

And you're wearing your. Your color today.
Is that empowering? Is that like.

No, it makes me feel happy and
energetic.

Nice.

Yeah. Yeah.

So, yeah, I like red. And I'm
learning this whole. Okay, never mind. It's
about fashion, so I'm not gonna go
there. I'm not gonna go there.

I was gonna say I'd be more
happy and energetic if the Bears had
won. I'm sorry, but they lost to
the packers. And I just realized I'm
wearing a green hoodie.

I did realize that.

Which makes it feel like maybe I'm
supporting the packers. And that is absolutely
not what's happening here. This was clean
and comfortable and it's really cold outside.

I don't know, cuz yesterday on your
Bears, I was in my Bears.

And then today you came in and
they let me Down. That's that. My
fault.

Pastor Asa had on green yesterday, and
he was like, I'm about to snatch
that hat. Because I was like, you
look like a Backers fan.

That's a bad choice of color.

Yeah.

Yesterday, game day.

Yes.

Well, I'm excited because we get to
have this conversation with my sister. Pretty.

Yay.

And welcome to between service.

Thank you.

You've been on, but without me.

Yeah. I was in your place hosting.
One day.

We're hosting, and you are normally the
brains behind this operation. You keep us
together as the producer of this show.

Yeah.

Scheduling the host and making sure that
we stay on task.

Yes.

So I'm happy to have you on
this side.

Thank you.

And what better person to have joined
this conversation about communication than our marketing
and communication coordinator here at Disciples Church?

Yes. Welcome. I scheduled myself.
Essentially.

That's how I got this one.

Yeah. Unpack that for us. Why did
you think that this show was a
good show for you?

You know, they. I am very prayerful
about who I ask, like, for the
topic, and I did feel this, like,
little nudge from the Holy Spirit, like,
this one's yours. So I just am
being obedient in doing that. But I
also am excited. Yeah. It'll be fun.

Yeah. So for. For all the people
that have heard me say, isn't that
right pretty or right pretty? And everybody's
like, who the heck is pretty?

Like, one through ten, pretty.

Right? Right.

Yeah, that's me.

So here she is in the flesh.

In the flesh.

So awesome.

So now we just have to get
Andy in that chair.

Yes. He said he's ready so that
all.

The people we talk about behind the
camera. Ruben has been.

Yeah, he filled in for you one.

Time, so I wasn't here for it.

Yeah.

So weird.

Yeah. Well, this is gonna be a
good conversation. First of all, first. First
of all, how are you guys enjoying
this series Red Flags? How's it for
you guys?

I'm loving it because it's right around
the holiday season, and I felt like.
I think I thought about this yesterday.
Like, God is so intentional with this
topic because it's about going around your
family. I think it's def. Holidays is
a time where people's hearts are softer,
too. And so I think it's, like,
a great season to be like Jesus

(04:36):
and look at ourselves before we are
around our friends and family. So I
love it. Yeah. Perfect timing.

Yeah.

I definitely think that the temptation during
Thanksgiving and Christmas. Temptation is very much
to, like, point fingers at people and
be like, man, you. If you met
my cousin, you'd know what a red
flag was. And it's like, hey, let's,
let's stop that and let's just look
at ourselves and let's figure out what
we need to do. And yeah, we
go from there.

Yeah.

Yeah, I love that.

So as a little bit of like,
for those who didn't get an opportunity
to hear Pastor Mama Chris teach the
message, give us a little bit of
what that message was about before we
dive into the conversation.

Yeah. So her, her assigned topic was
bad communication. So like, how, how are
we communicating in, are we being a
representative of Christ in our communication? And
so she, she kind of broke down
some red flags in communication when we
don't address topics when we like hide

(05:38):
the truth or, or shy away from
hard conversations. Talked about like our mannerisms
when we're talking, eye rolling and sighing
and all the, the non verbal body
language type stuff that communicates a lot.
And, and the, the whole message was,
was kind of set up and grounded
in the life of David.

Yeah.

So King David, man after God's own
heart. Awesome story, amazing moments. And we
usually look at him as his failure
was Bathsheba. And yes, that was one
of his failures. But David actually failed
in a lot of different areas. That
was like very big. However, he also
failed at just raising his kids. And

(06:19):
so like this, this horrific thing happens
with his kids because clearly David didn't
communicate well with his kids. Didn't. Didn't
talk to them about stuff. So one
of his kids is battling lust similar
to how David had. Which you would
think that the guy that went through
such a horrific failure because of lust
would have had a conversation with his
boys.

Right?

Like, hey guys, don't. Don't make my
mistakes.

Like, right.

You would expect that. But clearly he
doesn't. So one of his sons is
dealing with lust and in a pretty
horrific way, he is lusting after his
half sister. Pretty graphic. Pretty. Like the
Bible's kind of messed up. Like if
you actually read it, like it's, it's,
it's straight like Netflix drama. And so
he ends up the, the son ends

(07:03):
up having rapes the half sister. It's
this horrific moment. David is upset by
it, doesn't confront it, doesn't say anything,
doesn't care for Tamar, doesn't address his
son, just kind of is like, well,
that sucks. And that's like the extent
of like what we hear from David.
And so David's other son gets even

(07:25):
more upset and takes matters in his
own hands, orchestrate Basically, the murder of
his own brother. And then later on
in the story, we have another son
of David who decides that he's gonna
become king. And it literally says, like,
David had never corrected him in his
entire life. And so he just felt
like, yeah, I can be king because.
Because dad never told me to stop

(07:46):
doing anything.

Yeah.

And so it's just like, you. You
just see, like, over and over again,
like, his kids, like, these horrific moments.
First son.
Sexually assaults his sister. The other son
murders that guy. Another son tries to
usurp the throne and kill his own
father. And David's silent in all of
it. Like, it's just. It's just such
a horrible example of communication. And yet

(08:09):
he could write these beautiful psalms. Like,
he could articulate the. The emotions and
all this stuff. And yet, when it
came to his own family, he just
didn't know how to talk. And so
that was kind of the grounding of
the message to try and figure out,
okay, how can we do this better?
How can we address this? And so
she talked about a few different things,
like listening. Well, like active listening. What?

(08:30):
That. That's like choosing your words and
really just confronting yourself first.

Yeah.

Which went right in theme with the
whole looking in the. In the mirror.
So. Yeah. So that was. That was
the message in a nutshell.

Yeah, it was really good. So I
do encourage you to check that out,
because it was really good. I heard
a lot of great feedback. But one
question that I do have for you,
and we'll. We'll start with you. Pret.
There was some things that she listed
as red flags. And so which of
the red flags show up most in
your relationship? So avoiding difficult conversations, blame

(09:07):
and criticism, defense, defensiveness, harsh language, or
condescending tone and body language. And then
you think about it, too. And I'm
not gonna think about it. So you
guys have fun.

When it's my turn, I'm just gonna
hold the mirror.

I wish I had PE Sees red
flag.

We have a whole bunch of red
flags. I get it.

You wore the red jacket because you're
the embodiment of the red flag.

We'll wave. Taisha. Wave your hands.

Just.

Yeah, that's what. Yep, we'll go with
that.

We'll do the wave.

Right.

I think for me, my red flag,
when I thought about that list was
the harsh language.
I think that I had to get
reeled in when I got saved of,
like, just saying what's on my mind.
And I think I just grew up
that way. A very Indian mom who's

(10:02):
like, blunt, indirect. So I think that's
just how I always talked. And I
didn't realize until really the Lord was
showing me, like, the impact of my
words and to be more gentle and
how gentleness really, like, it's important for
people to receive what you say, not
just to be able to say it.
So that's my red flag, but hopefully.

So is that current? Because you.

I think it's always gonna. I always
have to check my heart.

Yeah.

Yeah. Before I speak.

Yeah, I can see that. Not. Not
that I can see that.

Yeah.

Wow.

I can see for all of us.
I get you constantly. I'm trying to
communicate here now, this way.

Yeah. For me, it's definitely that. The.
The condescending, cutting remarks, sarcasm, that whole
kind of inner web of things that
is. I. I will say I'm better.

You are.

Than I once was. And I think
that every year I'm a little bit
better. The problem is when you need
to walk a mile and you're taking
one step a year, it's gonna take
you a really long time to get
there. Maybe so. Yeah. So there's definitely
some. Some area for improvement in my
life when it comes to words, which
is kind of a weird thing to
say for somebody that, like, my main

(11:18):
job is communicating, and yet I can
still say things the wrong way and.
And I have to be very cautious.
And where that usually comes out is
when I'm tired or just extra frustrated,
and then it'll usually come out at
the people I'm closest to.

Yeah.

Which, like, I hate that. Like, because.
Because, like, what end up happening is,
like, the people I love the most
feel the most attacked. And so, you
know, I used to joke that, like,
if. If I say something mean to
you, it's because I really like you.
Like, it's because I. Like, we're close
enough that I don't have to filter
as much, but that's just awful. Like,

(11:57):
that's just. I don't know that that
makes me feel ugly. And I don't.
I don't want to do that.

So this is such a warm moment.
Thanks for having me.

Ty's just like, I felt that.

I felt that he does like me.

In my red jacket. I felt that.

I would say mine is defensiveness. I
always feel like I have to defend
myself. And. And it's probably something I'm
always actively working on. So I think
that's something that stood out to me
in her message. And even the part
about being slow to speak, slow to
anger. Oh, that's on Repeat in my
head.

(12:36):
And so, yeah, that'll be my area.
Yeah. But. But when it comes to
her message yesterday, pretty. What was something
that currently that really, like, stood out
to you?

Yeah, I think the listening part and
that part of communication, because I. I'm
a talker, so I'm like, okay, I
think I could have the conversations, be
able to say things, but do I
actually, like, sit back and listen for
understanding the person? I'm also someone that

(13:06):
likes to, like, if you're talking to
me, I'll think of a solution or
advice or encouragement. So I'm thinking about,
like, how I could help in a
way.

Yeah.

With my words. And so I think
it really pricked my heart yesterday of,
like. But do you actually just sit
there and try to understand where this
person's coming from and how. Yeah, I
just. That could. That's just going to
grow my heart for people if I'm
not trying to necessarily fix things. But
really, just where do you think.

That, like, just going back to, like,
your childhood where you think all of
that, like, you learned how to communicate,
I guess. Where do you think that
came from?

Wow, that's a deep question.

I don't know why I felt.

I think, should I leave for the
therapy session?

So when.

When, baby Pretty? No, when I was
younger, you know, it's. It's actually interesting
because I brought this up yesterday, too,
of, like, I. I was that child
that was very rebellious, and I got
in trouble a lot. I got called
the bad kid, and my brother was
the good kid. And so it was
like, the label was on me from
the beginning.

(14:15):
And I would say that with my
parents growing up, I was, like, punished
harshly. Like, more like harsher consequences. But
if someone would have just sat down
and, like, explained to me, I was
definitely receptive. I just needed understanding. And
so I think a lot of maybe
that came from that whole, like, not

(14:37):
really being talked to. Yeah. You know?

Yeah.

No, that makes total sense. What about
you, Pastor Brent?

So I think that my wife would
throw something at me if she was
in the room, if I didn't say,
active listening is the thing that I
need to be working on. I think
she elbowed me at least 87 times
during that part of the message.

Yeah.

The funny thing is, I was literally
on my phone when my mother was
talking about not being on your phone
when you're actually listening. And my wife
was like, exactly. So, yeah.

No, seriously.

Oh, my goodness.

You did that to me the other
day.

And. And it definitely is. Is something
that's like, I even see me doing
it with my kids. Like, one of
my kids has almost, like a nightly
routine that they. They come to kind
of talk through some stuff that they've
been going through, but they always seem
to, like, walk up to me at
the same exact time of the night
when I'm, like, deep into my phone,
like, deep into it. And so there's

(15:37):
a lot of times when, like, they're
talking and I'm just like, huh, huh.
And I'm like, man, I'm missing a
moment with my child. Like, I need
to put this down. Yes. I was
in the middle of something. They technically
interrupted me. Yeah, that's my. That's my
usual defense. That's my excuse. I was
already doing that. Yeah, I tried that
with my wife all the time. And,
yeah, it doesn't work.

She's. She's caught on to your.

Because, like, she got mad at me
the other day for not listening to
her. I was like, but you walked
in the room and I was doing
something. How are you gonn yell at
me for not listening? You should I
yell at you for interrupting? It did
not work out very well. So message
to all the guys listening. Don't use
that argument. It doesn't work. It's a
bad argument. Apparently, it logically, it made
sense to me.

Yeah.

It did not work with my wife.
And so.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I love that. I was gonna say,
I love that you use the word
active listening versus, like, if I think
of passive because I'm like, well, I'm
still listening, but I'm, like, also multitasking
or. I think this whole generation.

Yeah.

Can really learn from that of, like,
how do we just put the things
to the side and really be present.

Yeah.

With someone.

I was definitely challenged on that last
week when I was doing a devotional.
I was reading the scripture, but my
mind was on 20 other things, and
I felt like I need to slow
down. And so I felt like, okay,
turn your mind off. So I put
on worship music and I just sat

(17:05):
in that moment. I was present. And
I promise you, the day felt better.
And I'm like, I always read my
devotional. Why did this one feel better?
And it was because I sat and
I was actually present with that moment.
So that's a good point that you
brought up just being present.

Yeah. Goes along.

That's why putting the phone down is
such a big thing, because it's like,
you can be present with that person.

Yeah.

That's really hard for me to do,
though. It's like, I like my Phone.
It has information.

Oh, my goodness.

It has things on it.

So why do you feel like God,
Why do you feel like communication, good
communication is so important to God?
Go ahead and get convicted.

It's a. Interesting, interesting question. I, I
think it probably just comes down to
when you're not communicating well. Like.
I don't know. I don't know how
to answer that question. Why is it
so important to God?

Yeah, I mean, we, we're in the
series of red flags. And if bad
communication is something that we need to
check, why do. Why is it important
to have?

Yeah. So I think, I think the
answer is because bad communication is damaging.

Yeah.

Like, you're, you're actually hurting people with
bad communication. I mean, if we just
looked at David as that, like, extreme,
horrible example. Because of David's lack of
clear, good communication, someone was raped, someone
was murdered. His kingdom was split in
two. His own son revolted against him,
tried to murder him. Like, this is

(18:36):
what happened in David's life because of
bad communication. Are those things going to
happen in your life? Probably not that
extreme. However, your communication could end your
marriage.

Yeah.

It could put animosity between you and
your kids. It could cost you your
job. It could ruin relationships. If, if
we're supposed to be the hands and
feet of Jesus, that, that also implies
that, like, we're also a mouthpiece. Like,
we're supposed to be. Our communication should
actually be pointing people to Jesus. And

(19:07):
so when we, when we do that
poorly or we don't do that in
the way that it's supposed to, like,
we're, we've, we've talked sometimes about, like,
when, when, like, pastors have, like, moral
failures. It's like it gives a black
eye to Christian Christianity. It's like we
took a punch in the face. And
so, like, for, for every Christian, though,
like, how you're communicating, you're representing Christ

(19:27):
in your workplace, in your family, the
way you're talking to your kids, your
kid could grow up going, I don't
even want to go to church because
my dad is so abusive and he
calls himself a Christian, but the way
he talks to me, like, so I
think that it has a lot of
ramifications. Good communication is. Man, it's so
necessary.

Yeah. Yeah. I think of, like, we're
made to interact and, like, even with
the Lord, it's like all of this
is about. He wants a relationship with
us and once. And that relationship is
also what he wants, you know, with
each other. That's what we're supposed to
have. And I was thinking about, like,
how disciples are known for their love,

(20:09):
but it's not, like, emotional gush kind
of love. There's, like, this, you know,
language that you also have. And so
I think of, like, the importance of
having peace in our relationships. And I
think communication is really where it starts.
Yeah. And how, you know, it brings

(20:31):
clarity. Like, God's not an author of
confusion. And I even think of, like,
my mentor tells me this all the
time, and she's like, if you have
something important to talk about, don't text
it. Because she's like, if you give
Satan just a little.

Yeah.

A little toe into that conversation for
it to. To make. To cause confusion,
he will do it, and offense will
happen and, you know, division. And as
we learn, David's story that. That Pastor
Chris talked about yesterday was so good,
because I never saw that of, like,
David didn't talk to his children. Yeah.
I was like, what? I don't. Yeah.

(21:07):
And you're right. That's exactly what I
think about. He's. He wrote psalms, like,
and he was so expressive, but he
didn't confront things. But all of that
to say that it's about having this
clear. I think, very free.

Yeah.

You know, and peace.

Peaceful relationship with people and communication kind
of drives that. And leads that.

Yes.

Yeah. So seeking understanding.

Yeah.

Not being quick to be angry and
things of that nature. How do you
see, like, that playing an active role
in your position, even as, you know,
being over communications for a church? Like,
how do you feel like that is
present?

You know, I was. I think there's
a lot of layers to that. I
think, overall, it's just how do we
communicate the gospel? Right. So that's like
the good news of Jesus. God says,
how do you do it? In a
way that's like, revealing the mysteries of
it. And so it's like, breaking it

(22:07):
down, making it simple, making it clear
so that it actually is understood. And
so when I think of communication, that
word understanding is really what it is.
And so even in my. If I
think of my own work mode here
in ministry, I'm like, okay, I have
to make sure that this person knows
what time something is. Maybe it's said

(22:29):
more than once. Emailing it, the person.
You know.
That video makes me laugh. I'm not
gonna call Andy out. But not responding
to emails. Yeah. The bumper video. But
there's certain things where you don't think
it's a big deal, but how. How
it can cause such chaos and disorder
when you don't follow through with those

(22:51):
conversations. I think sometimes what we do
too is we think of things in
our mind and then we don't actually
like say it. So being intentional about
that.
And just communications over, like in this,
in the church, I feel like it's
what we're telling our congregation, like what's
coming up next. Like, do they even

(23:12):
know that this is something that the
food pantry, you know, do they even
know that they have this resource? It's
like we could be doing all these
good things, but do the people know
it? You know, we could talk about
God, but do they actually know the
good news?

Yeah, no, I. It was making me
think about the bumper and how we
kind of said we were looking for
the next D.C. pastor. But that is
a real question. Pastor Brent, like when
you are looking to, if you feel
like God is leading you to like
your pastoral team, are you looking for
people who like exceed in good communication?

(23:47):
Like.

Yeah, being able to communicate is absolutely
pivotal priority for a pastor. And that
doesn't mean preaching.

Yeah.

It actually means communicating. Because if you're
going to be a pastor, you're going
to have one on one communication, you're
going to have group communication, you may
have stage communication, but you're absolutely going
to have the other kinds. And so
being able to articulate thoughts clearly in
a way that is winsome, that draws
people in, that gives them understanding. And

(24:21):
yeah, it's absolutely pivotal. So yeah, it,
and it, it's weird because like when
we, we don't just actively go out
and look for pastors like.
Hiring, it's more about is there a
role that needs to be filled by
a pastor? There is. Is there somebody
that needs to step into that? And
so then because it's role based.

(24:45):
The priority is on what is, what
is needed in that role. Yeah, but
communication is always on that list. It
just depends on the role, how high
on that list it goes. Yeah. Does
that make sense?

Yeah. I can even see that in
leadership and not just leading in a
capacity at a church, but in your
homes and how David had a lack
of leadership in his own family. Like
that was the overall message that I
was saying. Like if he would have
just communicated and stepped up as a
leader in his home, things wouldn't have
crumbled.

There's a lot of factors to this,
what I'm about to say, but one
of the factors for why in some
companies when like there's an employee that's
doing a really good job at their
job, so then the company promotes them
to manager over a group of people
doing that Same job, and they end
up horrible in that role. Like, one
of the issues is this wasn't a
communicator. Like, this person didn't know how

(25:37):
to rally the troops, encourage them, challenge
them, you know, get, get on their
case when they're not doing the job
well, but in a way that motivates
them to actually do their job well.
Yeah, you just took somebody that knew
how to put item A into item
B and ship it off. And so
like, and there's other factors to this,
but one of them is a lack

(25:57):
of communication skills.

Wow.

Yeah, that's good. So this, I mean,
we may see this as a very
surface level, like red flag communication, but
it really is, like you said, ingrained
in every area and aspect. Like, you
can't be in community, and we're really
big on community here in, at Disciples
Church. You can't really be in leadership
if, like, your communication needs to be

(26:22):
worked on. So I do have some
application questions that we can kind of
help guide people that they may have
in regards to communication. So let's, let's,
let's dig in. What if. So if
someone had this question, is that, what
if I don't know how to start
heart, Heart conversations, How should I begin?

Yeah.
Man, I'm a rip the band aid
off kind of guy.

Okay.

Like, the hard conversations, the more you
put them off, the less likely you're
going to actually have the conversation. And
so, like, I definitely think that you
need to plan for it. You know,
you need to put some thought into
the hard conversation. You need to pick
the right place to have the hard
conversation. I've, I've been under some leaders
where they decided to have the hard
conversation right then, right there, no matter

(27:08):
what. And it was horrific. It was
awful. Because there's times when it's like
it's a room of 10 people.

Yeah.

And you're about to confront the one
person and the other nine are just
going to have to sit there and
watch this awkward conversation take place. So
like, we, we have a policy of
praise in public. Correct. In private. And
so like in that group of 10,
we're gonna say, hey, great job with
this, this, this. And then in our
one on one later, we're gonna be
like, hey, I know you did great

(27:35):
in this, this, and this. However, there
is this one other area that we
need to address when you talk about.
So, yeah, I think hard conversations don't
delay, but come up with a plan.
Figure out the right place, the right
time. Because sometimes the timing is, is
everything. And I think that's. That's one
of the lessons, like my. My mother
talked about on Sunday, that she had

(27:58):
a friend who was one of her
leaders, and she was ready to confront
this person, have the hard conversation, remove
some responsibilities, maybe remove them from leadership.
All justified all the right response. And
when she started the conversation, discovered where
that person was in life, and it
was like, oh, that's not appropriate. Like,
if I were to do that, was.
Would I be right? Yes. Would it

(28:20):
do any good? No, it'd be more
damaging than good. So the timing was
off. And so. And like, I've. I
think I've shared on here before. I
had a similar encounter with somebody where
I brought them in to have a
corrective meeting so that we could have
something in writing before I terminated them.
Like, it was. It was. They needed

(28:41):
to be fired. My boss at the
time agreed that they needed to be
fired. And I was like, okay, can
we fire them tomorrow? And he said,
not until you have the hard conversation
with him. And I was like, but
you agree that they need to be
fired? And he's like, yeah, but you
have to do this hard conversation first.
And I think it was more of
a lesson for me.

Yeah.

Than anything. And so I came up
with my game plan, called them into
the office, and literally, as they were,
I could, like, hear their footsteps walking
towards my door, felt the Holy Spirit
just say, start with, how are you
doing? And I was like, that was
not on the agenda at all, because
I don't care how they're doing, because
what they're doing is not good. So
how they're doing doesn't apply because that's.

(29:20):
That's. That's my real mindset in this.
But I am also obedient to Holy
Spirit. I may be dumb in a
lot of areas, but I'm smart enough
to know if he's telling you to
do something, you should probably do it.
And so ask them how they're doing.
And they just. They went into all
of this family stuff that I had
no knowledge of. I didn't know anything
about it. Did it justify their. Their

(29:41):
work ethic, their work behavior? No, but
it gave context to it. And it
made me realize that the timing was.
Was not right, that I needed to
be able to care for them as
a person before I judged them for
their. Their work, essentially, and that I
hadn't actually been a leader who cared
for them as a person. And so
it was almost like as they were

(30:02):
going through all this, all I was
actually feeling from the Holy Spirit was
Like an indictment against my leadership in
their life, that I treated them as
a tool and not a person. And
so it kind of shifted my mentality
on that we did end up firing
that person. But.

Yeah, but what I love about.

I grew a lot first. And then
my boss was like, wait.

I was not expecting that. But we
did end up.

Yeah.

I mean, it wasn't like, the same
day. It was a couple months later,
I think. But. Yeah, but I mean,
my boss had told me, yeah, you
need to fire this person.

Like, I have so many questions.

We can talk offline.

Well, what I love about what, like,
God did it through that situation is,
like, he made sure your heart remained
soft and, like, pure, you know, Because
I think when you fire someone or
whatever heart you were going in with,
it was like, he want. He's just
such a loving God. Like, I don't
want my child to have a bitter
heart or a hard heart, even though

(31:01):
it's a hard conversation. And. And I
just love that.

Yeah. That brings me up to. Or
reminds me of maybe one of my
favorite moments in. In my mother's message
was when she was having that difficulty
with my dad, which is always fun
to hear, you know, as the son.

Right.

Mom and dad got issues.

I always think, what. Like, what is
Pastor Brent thinking?

It's always weird. You should be there
when they do, like, a relationship message
and they start talking about sex. Can
I just be in a different room
right now? Like, I gotta. I'm gonna
do the Kojic finger and just walk
out. Yeah. So. But she. She talked
about how God kind of confronted her,
and she's like, but I'm just trying
to. To help my husband be a

(31:42):
better husband. And God said, well, I
want you to be a better wife.
And there's so many. I mean, it's
such a mirror moment, but it is.
There's something just so beautiful about that.
Like, I was going into a meeting.
I wanted this person to be a
better employee. Holy Spirit wanted me to
be a better boss.

Yeah.

And so it was. It was like,
when you can. When you can realize,
like, God's trying to work on you.
So, yeah, you do need to help
others. Like, sometimes we take that. That
scripture out of its context, you know?
Yes. We are supposed to remove the
plank out of our own eye. Yeah.
But it does say, first remove the
plank out of your own eye. So
that. Right. Like, no, like, you are

(32:22):
supposed to help your brother get the
speck out of their eye. Like. Like,
we are supposed to ignore it. Yeah.
Like, iron sharpens iron. How does that
happen? Like, so you are supposed to
not ignore when somebody has something wrong.

Yeah, that's good.

But you're supposed to fix some stuff
in you first. So you're not approaching
it as a hypocrite. Is essentially what
the scriptures actually say.

Yeah.

And then we take it like, you
can't judge me because. Take out your
plank.

Right.

Wait a minute. You just judged me.
How does that work?

You're the only person I know. That
would be like, first. He said first.

I pay attention to grammar. Grammar in
the Bible is important.

You're teaching me that now. Like, I'm
like, wait a minute. What does this
say? Where's the loophole now?

Just.

What? It's not a loophole. It says
first and then, like, first and then.
This is.

I know.

This is an order of events.

Yeah, that makes sense.

Yeah.

Take care of yourself so that you
can do a better job. And part
of that is when you have a
plank in your eye. This is. I
love the visual of this. Like, if
I have a big, like, stick sticking
out of my eye, you can't see,
but you have a tiny little speck
in yours.

Yeah.

How close can I actually get you?
Like, I'm smacking you in the head
with my big old tree that's coming
out of my eye.

Oh, my gosh.

Like, I have to remove that thing
so that I can actually get close
enough to you to actually help you
remove the little speck.

That is good. Go ahead and preach.

Come on. Relationship.

All right. Okay.

The Bible is amazing, and you should
read it sometimes.

Amen. I didn't mean. You meant the
ones that are not. Yeah.

See, it's a bit toughness.

I know.
Let me defend myself.

Defend myself.

Is that one of the red flags?
Spirit of offense.

Is that one of that's. Yes, that
spirit of offense. You went old school
with that one.

Just for you.

Okay.

Just trying. Trying my best here.

Yes. No, it's working. It's good. How
do you feel like you deal with
hard conversations?

You know, I think that a lot
of my walk has been relying on
the Lord. Like, truly prayer. And one
thing that I was always taught is,
like, before you have a conversation with
someone, ask the Lord to soften their
heart so they receive it. But little
did I know, every time I do
that, it softens my heart towards them.

(34:37):
And so I think for me, when
I go into hard conversation, it's the
confidence of my heart is right. I
actually want the best for this person
because I've been praying and only God
can kind of give you that heart
for that person. And then when I
go into those hard conversations, I feel
like what's going to come out of

(34:58):
my mouth will be edifying, encouraging, loving.
Maybe I'll make mistakes, you know, and
that will happen because I'm human. But
at least I know that I'm not
going in with a bad attitude. Yeah.
Yeah, that's good.

Checking. Doing that heart check before.

Yeah.

And even praying for the other person.
I remember I was in a group
chat, and I don't think it was
harsh, but you know how sometimes your
flesh can rise up. And so the
conversation was like, did you see what.
And they were just going in on
this person's Facebook post. And then I
was like, and we should pray. And
I was like, I don't think you
could pray for somebody and talk about

(35:36):
somebody in the same breath. So we
really like praying first. Like, if you're
praying for this person, how can you,
like, attack them or go in with
the wrong heart?

Yeah, yeah.

So it's like that old school, like
the. The gossip prayer circle. Yeah, it's
like we need to be praying for
my cousin, cuz you know what they
did. And it's like, we're going to
pray for my neighbor because. Did you
hear what? And it's like you did.
That wasn't a prayer request. That was.
That was a Christian gossip circle. You
tried to like, soften the.

Yeah, no, that is a real thing.

Christian gossip. Wow.

That's new.

Yeah.

New to you, huh?

Well, I. I've experienced actually that. And
I was like, what was that like?
I'm pretty sure they just told me
everything about this person that I should
not know and then said to pray
for them. And I was like, that's
when I was introduced to it.

Oh, wow.

Yes.

Be careful.

It's like worldly gossip. You just add
the prayer at the prayer. That's what
you're trying to do.

I know. Sneaky. Okay, so how do
I confront someone without ruining a relationship?

You need relational equity. So we call
this the. The checkbook method. And so
part of this, like, it loses its.
We're gonna have to come up with
a new illustration because as newer, newer
generations come up not knowing what balancing
a checkbook even means, but I know.

(37:05):
So, like, the idea is when you
have to correct somebody that you're in
a relationship with, you are making a
withdrawal on the relationship. So in order
to make the withdrawal, you need to
make sure that you have invested enough
into the account so that you don't
bounce the check. So in other words,

(37:25):
every time I'm interacting with somebody and
I'm praising them, I'm celebrating them, I'm
praying for them, I'm loving on them,
I am putting money into this relational
account when, when I serve them, when
I care for them, all that I'm
putting money in. When I have to
have hard conversations, I'm taking money out.
And so what ends up happening is

(37:46):
some people have not invested enough in
order to have the level of withdrawal
they're about to have, and that's when
relationships break down. But like, I've invested
enough into my wife that I can
sit down with her and I can
have a hard conversation. And yes, it
still is withdrawing money. Like, it's, it's
still taking something out of the account.
But I'm, I'm writing a check for

(38:08):
$100 and I've got a million dollars
in the account and we can handle
it. The problem is when you're, you're
trying to write a check that your
account can't handle. And so you need
to make sure that you have been
caring for the person, investing the person
in a way. So that's like step
one, because you could do all of
that the right way, but then in

(38:29):
the methodology of how you confront somebody,
you could end up like just destroying
them anyways. So that's where you have
to really be careful of language, body
language, environment, timing, all of those things.
So, like, these hard conversations, like. Yeah,
there has to be a lot of
thought put into it. And I'm being

(38:51):
a little bit vague here because, like,
the, the nature of the conversation and
the nature of the relationship is, is
a variable that I can't account for
for. Like just blanket advice. Like if
we're talking a boss to an employee
is different than husband and wife, is
different than father to son is different
to best friends, is different from, you

(39:11):
know, co workers. Right. So, but in,
in all of those instances, you need
to make sure that you're, you have
invested enough in the person that you
can make this, this stressor on the
account. You also need to choose your
words very carefully. We want to eliminate.

(39:32):
Like, what do we call them? Like
the absolute kind of statements. Like, you
always do this.

Yeah.

Never do stuff like that because the
moment you say always, all I have
to do as the person listening to
you is come up with one time
when the always isn't true. And now
I can just eliminate everything that you've
just said.

Yeah, yeah.

So we, we don't use these definitive,
always, never those kind of statements we
want to lean more on. I feel
kind of statements. It's like, hey, when,
when you said this, I really felt
like this is what you were actually
communicating. That gives the other person a
chance to. To defend or to say,

(40:13):
yeah, actually, you know, I kind of
do. That's exactly how I wanted to
communicate that. And it's like, oh, wow,
okay, well, and then we can move
from there.

Yeah.

And yeah, there's. There's for confrontation. I
think we've taught some lessons on confrontation.
If not, I might need to do
one here. Here soon. Maybe we can
tack it into like, Life University videos
or something to talk about confrontation. Because
there's. There's a lot of different, like,
tips.

Yeah.

That I could give on how to
have those hard conversations.
Yeah. I like something that Pretty said
earlier about praying for that person. I
think that it's. Man, it's. It's amazing
how well hard conversations have gone when
the Holy Spirit was in the room.

Yeah.

And how poorly they've gone when he
wasn't.

Yes.

Like, it's like, holy Spirit, I'm definitely
gonna need you right here. Because as
you get into some of those conversations,
you might have already planned for all
the right things to say. And then
I love, I love Mike Tyson's quote.
You know, everybody's got a plan to
get punched in the face.

You know, I love that.

Something. Something along those lines. I might
be paraphrasing, but. But sometimes you get
into the middle of that confrontation and
everything you had, like, pre planned for,
now all of a sudden, their response
just throws everything you planned for out
the window. And it's in those moments,
man, that you need the Holy Spirit
giving you wisdom and guidance, helping you
to say the right things to not

(41:38):
say. Like, sometimes it's about choosing not
to say something.

Yes.

That makes all the difference. And so
I don't know about you guys, but
for me, I need the Holy Spirit
to, like, grab my mouth and shut
it for me sometimes because I just
want to say things.

Yep.

We do need the red flags.

No, it is what you. A lot
of it is what you don't say
that really matters. I'm learning that, like,
this year, I feel like that the
Lord's been really working with me on
that humility piece of, like, you don't
have to say everything that's on your
mind and heart and how, you know,
just really being submitted to the leading

(42:23):
of the Lord in that. And I
agree with you. Like, I don't think
I've had a confronting conversation where When
I've prayed and just. Even the plan.
I have a plan.

Yeah.

And then just really just. But at
the end of the day, just being
like, but God, I trust that whatever
needs to be said will. And even
I want to say this, but if
that door doesn't open up for me
to say that, then I won't. And
trusting God in that. And it's like.
It's like God shows up with 90.
Sometimes I've had situations where that person

(42:55):
already was being dealt with by the
Lord, or the Lord was like, as
happened between me and my husband, where
it's like, hey, babe, this man came
up to me in the gym and
he said, so and so and so,
you know, And I was like, that's
exactly what I wanted to talk to.
So it's like, you know, God sometimes
will take care of all of it
for you. And that's what I. You
know, you have the Lord. So it's

(43:17):
so different than the world when you're
confronting.

And yeah, I will say that, like,
when you are communicating with someone who
is a disciple of Jesus Christ, that
it's so much different than communicating with
someone who really don't have a relationship
with God, don't care to have one,
and really don't care about people because

(43:42):
you can still have the same feelings
come up, but you learn how to
first look at yourself. Most. Most disciples
of Christ do that. Disciples of Christ
do that. And then you start to
see the other person in a different
light.

Yeah.

And I feel like you just, you
know, the Lord helps you through those
moments. And I've experienced that time after
time in some of my.
Communications with people. Like, I could always
tell, like, we both are really just
out here trusted in God. And we
may get it wrong, but, like, God
always redeems, like, our hearts because they

(44:20):
are true and they're pure and. And
I think that's a beautiful thing to
see, especially with your spouses or relationships
and friendships. So. Yeah, that's good.

Yeah.

All right. What do I do when
I try to talk and the person
gets defensive, so I can't answer that
question clearly.

So.

Yeah. You guys have fun.

So pretty. When you're talking and she
gets defensive, what do you do?

How do you handle me?

It's gonna be all right.

You really do.

You really do when they get defensive.
I think even just in my marriage,
I'll use that as an example.

She's trying to save our friendship.

I'll use her.

I've invested enough in Nico n can
handle this.

I think I Have more moments, obviously,
because, you know, just more time with
him. But I feel like when he
gets defensive, I. I'm not gonna lie,
and I'm gonna tell you the truth.
I get defensive right back. And I
think it's because of how close we
are.

Yeah.

Like, that familiarity. But I think that
there have been moments where he's gotten
defensive and I've been able to, like,
in my mind, I will say, like,
lord, help me. Like, or. Or maybe
we'll get defensive right back. And then
the next day, God will give me
that insight of, like, no, this is

(45:50):
where he was coming from. That's good.
Yeah, that's good. Yeah. I don't know.
I don't know how to really respond
the best way with defensiveness.

So when I do it right, it's
usually I take a moment, say, hey,
hey. Like, let's just. Let's back off
for a second. Let's just calm down
for a second. Because I'm. I'm not
trying to attack you. I'm. I'm for
you. I'm. I'm. I'm just pointing out
something that took place. And you don't
have to defend because this isn't. I'm

(46:20):
mad at you. And now we're not
attacking. Like, we're. We're approaching this thing
together for how we can both get
better at this. And so, like, when
I'm doing it the right way, it's
really taking the time to just relieve
the pressure in the room to just
say, hey, it's okay. Like, I'm not.
I'm not mad. I'm not pointing a
finger. I'm not. I'm not angry about
any of this. I'm just telling you

(46:42):
what I feel or what I see,
and maybe we can come up with
a solution together. And I think that
making sure that you have a very
calm voice, like, when somebody gets defensive,
their voice is probably going to raise.
And then if you match that volume,
like. But there's something funny about, like,
when. When one person starts raising their
voice and the other person just keeps
it calm.

That is true.

You will feel so awkward, right? Being
the loud one. Like.
Hey, you know.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. You could get more
angry.

Like, I don't know what to do.

Right.

Yeah.

And why are you acting like the
perfect person?

Just hit that. That pressure release valve
on the slow cooker and you'll be
all right. When I don't do it
well. Is usually with my kids, and
it's usually Bennett. What?

Throw my friend under the.

Absolutely.

Defending Bennett.

Getting Defensive on his behalf. Bennett, from
the time he was like, three years
old, you cannot address something in his
life without him getting defensive. Like, it
is, it is his default nature. And
so it's something that, like, we're trying
to work through with him to help
him become a more well rounded adult.
We only have five more years with

(47:57):
him to work this thing out. But
yeah, so his, his default is to
get very, very defensive.
And to the point of, like, he
can't hear criticism, he can't hear advice.
Like, we, we tried to. Like, so
he's obsessed with soccer. Like, that's, that's
his thing. And so, like, we, we
try and like, coach him in soccer.
Soccer. Like, we watch the game. We're

(48:18):
like, hey, man, if, if you actually
were a little more aggressive on this
play, like this, why I didn't. Because,
like, immediately it's an excuse or it's
all this stuff. And so, like, we're
trying and trying and trying, and yet
he's still the one. I fail at
this the most. He starts getting defensive,
I start getting frustrated. And then I'll

(48:40):
literally, I'll just get to the point
where I'm like, bennett, shut up. Stop
making excuses. Just say, yes, sir. Like,
I'm your dad. I'm telling you what
needs to happen. Cut it out. And
then he just shuts down.

Gulp.

And I'm like. And like, I'm like,
I won. And then my son won't
talk to me the rest of the
day. Yeah. And he doesn't actually fix
the behavior. So I didn't win anyway.
Like, I sh. I got him to
stop defending.

Right. Right.

But it didn't, it didn't work out.
And so, like, so, so I think
that you can tell when you're doing
it well and when you're doing it
poorly based on, you know, the outcome
of the conversation. Like, if they're getting
defensive and you explode when they explode,
it's not. Nothing's getting solved, nothing's getting
resolved. But if you can help alleviate
the pressure, calm things down, remind them

(49:30):
that you're on their side. Like, this
is not a me versus you. So
you're trying to defend my attack. I'm
not attacking you.

Right, right.

Like, we're, we're addressing an issue together.
I think that that helps.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So that is a moment where you're
giving us permission to look out the
window after you have looked in the
mirror.

And so the mirror point is, do
I get defensive? Or when somebody else
gets defensive, do I explode on them?
Do I do I just lash out.
That's the mirror part of it. So
work on that. That's removing the plank.

Yeah.

Now I can work on the specific
in somebody else's.

You know, I think of. For. Even
for me to receive from God. I
think of, like, I always say this.
I'm like, God, you're for me, not
against me. So I love that, what
you said, Pastor Brown. Like, really. Maybe
making that more of a point of
letting that person know, like, I'm for
you, not against you here. Yeah.

And you can really. You can start
a conversation with that. And I've done
that even. Even through email to employees
before. Was like, hey, just want you
to know this is not a like,
I'm mad at you kind of email.

I got that email yesterday, actually.

I said something at the end of
it. What I say, I didn't open
it. I closed with it. I was
like, this is not a Mad dad.

Mad dad.

What? Can I have a moment of
transparency with that email? That scripture, do
not be quick to speak with some.

You know, be quick to listen, slow
to speak.

I was gonna completely mess myself up
yesterday when I got that email because
I had all the defenses, like, ready
to go. And then I was like,
God was like, can you stop and
read his email again? So I went
and read it. I was like, oh,
if I would have responded and tried
to, like, screenshot proof, I probably would
have been thrown under the bus because
he was totally right and what he

(51:23):
said. And I was like, oh, I
would have messed myself up if I
would have spoke too fast, like, trying
to prove a point and defend myself.

Yeah, it was one of those, too,
where it was like, I don't need
to know why it happened or what
caused it to happen or excuses for
why it happened. I'm just asking, like,
hey, what can we do in the
future so that it doesn't happen again?
It was just.

That was a perfect. That was a
perfect communication moment right there.

I tried.

So. Yeah, you did good. You did
good. I didn't feel too bad. I
left encouraged, but I know I need
to fix some things.

Yeah.

But no, that was good. And we're.
And I feel like just in life,
we are. We have to know how
to communicate. That's even making me think
about, like, why do. Why is this
so important to God? You know, like,
sometimes just, like, emotions, like, why does
God. Why did he give us emotions?
You know, it's like, why is communication
something he really want us to work

(52:14):
on? Because it can make or break
every relationship. Yeah.

Everything really?

So that's good. Okay, so another question
is, how do I know the difference
between keeping the peace and avoiding the
problem?

Man, I wish my wife was in
the room for that one. She would
love to answer that question. Because. Because.
Yeah, because that's been something that she's
struggled with in the past of, like,
I'm just keeping the peace, keeping the
peace, keeping the peace, keeping the peace.
And it's like, but are you. Or
are you just burying your head in
the sand because you're not at peace?
Yeah, because you're in total chaos and

(52:52):
turmoil because everybody else is still doing
the thing that's frustrating you, but they're
happy doing the wrong thing because you
haven't confronted them. So, like, you're enabling
them to have peace by robbing yourself
of peace. Like, that doesn't make any
sense to me. And so, yeah, the.
The keeping the peace versus actually confronting

(53:13):
something. For me, there's so many variables
to that. I don't know that I
always get it right, but I. I
try and. And work through.
How bad is it if I let
this go and how good is it
if they fix it? And. And wherever
that balance is, where it's like, okay,
the damage that could be done by

(53:34):
confronting this person. And. And maybe it
goes back to that of checking account
kind of thing. Like, yeah, maybe I
haven't invested enough in this person. And
so sometimes I'll even have somebody else
do a corrective conversation with somebody because
I know they have more equity. And
so.
But. But, yeah, so trying to determine
between keeping the peace and actually confronting.

(53:56):
I think if my confrontation is going
to be a net positive, a net
win for the organization, for the relationship,
for both parties, then. Then I'm gonna
go for it as long as it
outweighs the negative result. So if this
is gonna come across as me nagging
or me nitpicking or me harping on
a tiny little thing, and it's like,

(54:16):
man, we just had, you know, 99
awesome things happen, and one bad thing
happened. Can I let the one bad
thing slide? Could I give it some
time to say, hey, we. We want
to take time first to celebrate the
99.

Yeah.

And then we're gonna come back around
to the hey, for next time. Here's
how we can get better to then
address the one.
And yeah, there's definitely times when my
kids will have an attitude or something,
and it's like, okay, I could be
dad in this moment and be like,
hey, fix your attitude. Or I could
say, okay, they had a really Rough
day. They just need a few minutes.

Yeah.

And I'm not. I'm not going to
allow them to constantly have a bad
attitude or speak badly to myself or
my. My wife or to other people.
However, in this moment, yes, he raised
his voice, or, yes, she rolled her
eyes. However, I'm going to give them
a little bit of grace because I
know where they're at, and I know
that we can address that issue in

(55:11):
other ways at other times, and we
have in the past, and it'll be
a nice little reminder. But in this
moment, it's better for them and it's
better for our relationship if I just
breathe a little bit and be like,
all right, that was disrespectful, but I'll
allow it.

Yeah. Wow.

So there's a lot of, like, evaluation
that's taking place.

Yeah.

Like, okay, is it worth it? And
if. If your answer is always, it's
never worth it, then you're just avoiding.

Yeah, right.

That's not healthy. That's not good. And
then, like, the. The boss I once
had, you know, if everything needs to
have addressed, like, right there on the
spot, right away, and it's like, okay,
that's not healthy either. Like, there's some
things where you just got to say
swallow and say, okay, yeah, for the
sake of the relationship, we're going to.
We're going to let that one slide.
I'll be okay. They'll be okay. Yeah,
it's not the end of the world.

(55:59):
It's like, I had a. I had
a conversation with a leader once. They
were. They were trying to figure out
if they needed to correct somebody that
was under them because they had heard
them say something that they're like, but
that's not what we believe based on
Scripture. And they're like, so do I
need to confront them? And honestly, in
that specific example that they're giving, I
told them no. I said, okay. So

(56:20):
what you're referring to is actually a
gray area in scripture. It's. It's a.
It's an area where there is an
interpretation that leads to what we believe.
There's an interpretation that leads to what
they believe. But at the end of
the day, is it a salvation issue?
Is it going to lead somebody down
the wrong path? No, it's totally fine.
And so I told them, just let
it slide. Like, I don't know. A
little bit later, they came with another
example from the same person, but this

(56:42):
time it was like a major issue.

Like, oh, that one.

You need to correct that other one.
You could let slide this one. This
one is a major thing that you
need to do something about. So. So
yeah, you kind of have to play
that. That. That way weighing game, that
evaluation game.

Yeah, yeah.

Pros and cons, what's the positive and
negative that can happen from this? Going
the right way or going poorly.

Yeah.

Yeah, that's good.

Can you roll your eyes?

I know.

Pastor.

Hilarious.

She was like, I was practicing how
to roll my eyes. Can you roll
your. You know how to do it.
You got a lot of practice with
rolling your eyes.

Not at all.

You just looked like your sister in
that moment.

Is that because my sister rolls her
eyes a lot?

I've seen her. I've just seen her,
just bigger. When she was here, we
were friends. I saw her. So now
you reminded me.

That's funny.

Now. How do you deal with, like,
choosing those moments to speak up night?

Yeah, I think of, you know, the
thing that helps me is that language
of keeping peace versus making peace. And
that's like, how the Bible puts it
is making peace. And that revelation in
itself has changed a lot for me.
Of it's when you make peace, you're
active, and it's very intentional. Of what
Pastor Brent said of like, now you're

(58:00):
really looking at, like, is this worth
saying something? Is this not, you know,
will? What will be the outcome of
this? When I think of making peace,
that's what I think of is looking
at that outcome.

Yeah.

You know, Good. Yeah. Okay, girl.

She raised Bibles.
Love it. Okay.
Just a couple more. How do I
break communication habits? I've learned from my
childhood. I think this is really a
big one. I will. I will start
with me.

Not.

I don't know how to do it,
but I think being married helped me.
I grew up in a house where
yelling was love. So it was like,
you know, if you're not yelling and
fighting, like, you don't love me. And
so when I get married and I'm
like, david's not a yelling passion, right?
Where's the passion? And so he's not

(58:54):
a yeller, and he doesn't like to
fight. So I'm like, you're not quiet.
Do you love me? Like, you're quiet.
Do you love me? Be angry with
me. I'm yelling. I love you. I'm
fighting for you. And he's like, what
are you talking about? He was like,
that's not how I grew up. So
it's like, definitely you can bring those
habits into, like, adulthood, like, what you

(59:16):
learned or what you saw as a
child. So that's my little tidbit. So
I'm better.

Yeah.

But I definitely came into my marriage
thinking that yelling and being passionate equaled
love, so that's good. Yeah.

Yeah. I think for me, I had
the silent treatment thing and maybe some
criticism there, too. And I would say
the same thing. Like, my marriage, really.
Marriage is a mirror.

It is.

It's definitely not a window. Well, you
could make it a window, I guess.
But for me, I started to learn.
Like, I remember dating Nico, and right
away he was like, I hate the
silent treatment. And he really made that
a point to tell me that. Of
how it makes him feel. And so
I was like, oh, really? Intentional. Like,
okay, I can't do that. Even though
that's what I saw growing up or

(01:00:03):
that's what was used.
Avoiding those conversations and just then letting
it go after the silent treatment. So
I was like, okay, we can't do
that. But then I would be, like,
kind of critical and harsh with him
because I learned that you just say
whatever's on your mind, so if this
bothers you, you just say it.

Ti'heasha Beasley (01:00:20):
Yeah.

Priti Idrovo (01:00:21):
And then really, I think it really.
It was when I got saved where
I feel like the Lord was really
showing me, like, my. How my words
either build up or tear down. And
so then I became very mindful of
that. Not perfect, but better. Yeah, yeah,
yeah.

Pastor Brent McQuay (01:00:38):
I think I like that mindful phrase
because I think if you take the
Bible, you know, as God's word for
us, like, take it seriously. Like, I
need to be working on this. There's
just so many passages to talk about.
Your words, Life and death, power of
the tongue. Ship is controlled by a
rudder. Your life is controlled by your
tongue. Like, the. The Bible goes hard

(01:00:59):
on, like, let no unwholesome talk come
out of your mouth. And so, like,
if we're going to actually try and
do what the Bible tells us to
do, then we need to be mindful
of. Of what we're saying. And I
think that that's. That's the only way
you really work on it. Like, you
have to be paying attention to what
you're saying, know what you're supposed to
be saying and what you're not supposed
to be saying, and then actively working

(01:01:19):
on choosing the right things to say
more than the wrong things to say.
And it is. It's a lifelong process.
Right. Because you can be great for,
like, six months at this, and then
your wife or your husband does something
completely stupid, and you just revert right
back into just speaking your mind, and
it's like, oh, I was doing so
good. And so, like, circumstances happen. You're

(01:01:42):
gonna. You're gonna feel like you've conquered
this thing, and then somebody cuts you
off in traffic, and all of a
sudden it's like, oh, no, there's still
a little bit of that in me.

Yeah.

And so it's just you're constantly working
on these things, constantly reflecting, constantly asking
the holy spirit for help. And. Yeah,
it's so like, my. My wife's was
the. The silent treatment thing, like, when
we first got married. Because you're right.
Like, marriage reveals all kinds of stuff.

Yes.

In you and in your spouse, and
you have to work on those things
together. And so, like, her thing was
to. Instead of, like, talking through the
problem, she would just shut down. And
I'm like, no, we need. We need
to come to resolution.

Yeah.

Like, we have a disagreement. You want
this? I want this. We're not in
agreement on it. If you just go
lock yourself in the room and don't
say anything, we're still left with, I
want this and you want that. Like,
it doesn't help anything. So, like, we
have to talk these things out. And
that was just for the family that
she grew up in. Like, that was
a foreign concept. And so, man, we
had to work on that thing for.

(01:02:37):
For years. But she's at a place
now where sometimes she'll dip back into
that, but all I have to do
is be like, so, we got to
talk about this. She's like, I know.
And then we talk. And so, like,
there's. You can see there's progress. I
mean, 18 years of marriage, there better
be some progress. And then, like I
said earlier, like, for. For me, it's
the cutting remarks. And, like, I remember,

(01:02:59):
like, it, man, it was like a
dagger in my heart. There was early
on in our marriage, she stopped me
in, like, the middle of something, and
she's like, you're making me feel like
I'm stupid. I'm like, what do you.
What do you mean? Like, that's dumb.
And she's, like.

Not saying it right after. Well, that's
just stupid.

And this is how, like, yeah, this
is how oblivious I was to it.
That even in saying, well, that's stupid.
Like, I didn't see how I was
calling her stupid or I was making
her feel stupid stupid. It was like,
well, logic. A plus B equals C.
Like, like, what's going on here? And
so, like, I. I, man, when she

(01:03:40):
said that to me, though, and, like,
it actually clicked. It was like, I
ne. I Never want my wife to
feel like I'm looking down on her,
and she's a brilliant woman. And so,
like, it was like, okay, that's not
what I want. But what I've been
saying to her and the way I've

(01:04:01):
been saying it to her has been
giving us this result. So if I
don't want this result, I've got to
change what I'm saying and how I'm
saying it. And so for the sake
of the relationship, I need to fix
what's going on in me. And so,
like, that's been. Because it. And it.
It went back to childhood. Like I
think we've talked about before, I was
a little guy. Like, I wasn't gonna

(01:04:21):
win a lot of fist fights, but
I could beat the mess out of
you with my words, every word battle.
And so that's where I leaned heavily.

Yeah.

And so then it just carried over
into adulthood. And I wasn't even trying
to win fights, but it was just.
That was just the natural way words
would come out of my mouth.

Yeah.

And so, like, there's. Now I'm 41
years old, and I'm still dealing with
stuff that I did at 12 years
old. Like, that sucks. But that's just
kind of the part of. Of life,
like, yeah, you've got to actively work
on it. That's why you got to
take up your cross daily. Because I
can fix it today, but tomorrow's a
new day.

Right.

And I'm still gonna be fighting those
battles.

Yeah, very true. This is really helping
some people. It's helping me. Like, just.
Man, it's so good. Okay, last question.
I actually have four more, but I'm
gonna choose one more because we're running
out of time, and so I'm trying
to see which one is the best.

That one right there, the one you
just looked at.

Okay, I'm gonna go with it.
Okay. What if I forgive someone but
I still feel triggered in conversation with
them? How do I handle that?

It takes time. I think that forgiveness
is. It's an active stance. Like, it's
not like a magic. Like, I had
this moment of forgiveness, and now I
don't remember all the bad things that
the person did. Like, now you're still
going to know those things, but forgiveness
means I'm not going to hold that
against them. And so, yeah, you're still
going to be, you know, dealing with

(01:05:54):
some triggers, if you want to use
that language, or you're gonna still have
some moments where it's, you know, I.
I forgave this person because they did
this thing. But now all of a
sudden they did something really similar or
they did something that was like an
indicator before that they were going to
do it again. And now all of
a sudden it's like, yeah, okay, like
that's normal. That's. And that's also like,
okay, like, like there is something in

(01:06:17):
like forgiving somebody for something but not
being okay with them doing it again.

Yeah.

Like, yeah, we'll create a hypothetical. Like
if, if your spouse cheated on you,
but you decided for the relationship that
you're gonna forgive them, you're gonna be
reconciled, you're gonna work through this marriage
together. But then all of a sudden
you start seeing the same behaviors that
they did the last time they cheated.
Like, they're getting defensive with their messages,
they're disappearing without explanation. They come home

(01:06:43):
late. It's like, okay, I forgave you.
However, this is reminding. There's a pattern
of behavior that's coming around again. Like,
so like it would be, it would
be ignorant of me to be oblivious
to that just for the sake of.
But I forgave them.

Yeah.

And so like, yeah, there's absolutely going
to be the reality of some of
those things.

Yeah.

But in like a normal circumstance, a
normal way of life, you forgive somebody
and every time that thing kind of
creeps back in, you've got to make
the choice to continue to forgive. That
I'm going to continue in my forgiveness
of them. That it wasn't just a
one time moment, but I'm going to
actively walk in this forgiveness. And then

(01:07:25):
just because I brought up a whole
relational thing, it also doesn't necessarily mean
that you have to give them the
same level of access to your life.
Like you can forgive somebody and still
say, but we can't be friends, friends
anymore. Like, I forgive you, I love
you. But like the way we used
to, like the friendship we used to
have, like, because of your actions, that
friendship is, it's destroyed. Like that friendship

(01:07:46):
can't happen. Do I wish you any
ill will or anything? No, I'm. I'm
not going around talking bad about you.
I'm not gonna do all that stuff
like I love you as a brother
in Christ or whatever. But we need
to, to separate.

Yeah.

From this. And I'm gonna go my
way, you're gonna go your way. Don't
hate you. But we just can't be
friends at the way that we were
before because you broke trust.

Yeah.

Yeah, I agree. That's totally okay. You
know, I was thinking about this verse
of his mercy endures forever. And as
you were saying, like, it's constant.

It's.

And I think of that like mercy
and forgiveness is something that needs to
endure. And so if you forgive someone
one time, you still gotta continue to
like choose forgiveness, you know, in every
moment, even if they do it again.
Because that's what God does with us.
Like, yes, the cross forgives sins once

(01:08:45):
and for all, but if we talk
about even taking up our cross every
day, it is really like God is
forgiving me every day because every day
I'm to probably doing something, you know,
that is not perfect.

Yeah.

So that's what I think of just
that forgiveness has to endure. So it's
not a one time thing, as you
said.

Yeah, that's good. Well, this is a
good message. And man, I just encourage
you to go re watch that sermon
because mama Chris did an amazing job
laying out what communication looks like flags
to look for. But I also think
this conversation was very edifying for people
to take those application pieces and start

(01:09:25):
applying it to real life situations. Because
listen, we live in a fallen world
and hurt people. Hurt people sometimes. So.
But let's land this plane. So come
on, give us your best takeaways.

My favorite moment.

Favorite moment.

Everyone goes like this, by the way,
behind the camera.

Listen, this is a whole.

I thought I was landing the plane.

No, landing the plane.

Right. Why did you Rolling with the
homies?

Oh, yeah, it just came to me
like that show, that movie, Clueless. Clueless
cast every time.

All right.

Sorry, I'm on the wrong show. I
don't know what this is.

You've seen Clueless?

I have.

So when they did this, it made
Rolling with.

I remember.

Okay.

But anyways, you.

You wrote your takeaway.

No, no, I pulled out because I
wanted to get the. So she quoted
James 1:26. But in the NLT and
I, I don't have it like memorizing
the NLT. I don't know that I
have it memorized in the ESV. My
brain doesn't hold on very well. Yeah,
that 41 year old brain that got
hit in the head too many times.
But yeah, that. My takeaway. James126 in

(01:10:32):
the NLT just, it was, it was
like that was the thing that everybody
needed to hear to be able to
say, I actually need to do something
about this. This James 1:26 says, if
you claim to be religious but don't
control your tongue, you are fooling yourself
and your religion is worthless.

Wow.

So that's a mic drop.

Can't control your tongue. You ain't doing
Jesus no good.
Yeah. So maybe we should work on
controlling our time.

Okay. Yeah, we're gonna do that as
disciples today.

We're gonna work on our tongue control.

Yes.

And I'll just go off of that
as my takeaway is like, like the
controlling the tongue part. I think that
when I first started walking with God,
I was like, okay, I could do
that. And I was like doing it
by like just being mindful of my
words, where there is a thing of
that. But I think it goes deeper
with which is the part what Pastor
Chris said of confronting yourself of the

(01:11:27):
heart posture, because out of the heart
is the what flows out of your
mouth, you know. And so I really,
I. For. For me, the takeaway and
the encouragement would be to get your
heart right first and the words will
flow.

Yeah, I like it.

Yeah, no, that's good. I think for
me, the. The part that I related
to, I won't say it's a takeaway,
but I can see how a lot
of people can be in this space
where it might be a difficult season.
She started the message by talking about,
you know, losing her mother and just,
you know, the different elements that added
to her feeling short tempered or just,

(01:12:04):
you know, and it. And that's a
real thing. We can all be in
difficult spaces where it's a difficult season.
But I think this message encourages us
to. To die daily and to really
lean on God as that supernatural support
because it will be tough season. But

(01:12:26):
God is faithful and, and he cares
even about your communication and how you
communicate with others. So you don't have
the power sometimes within yourself to do
it alone. Actually, you don't ever have
the power within yourself to do it
alone. So lean on the Holy Spirit
all the time. And so that is
my takeaway. And thank you pretty for

(01:12:48):
being on the show.

Thank you for scheduling me. Scheduling.

Thank you for letting me schedule myself.

Thank you.

It worked out well and this is
a great conversation. And so, yeah, we.
We hope that it blessed you. And
until next week, we will see you
soon.

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