You Might Be a Christian Atheist If… | Knowing God vs. Just Believing in Him - Between Sermons // Audio

Episode Transcript
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Pastor Brent McQuay (00:00):
Foreign. Welcome to another episode of Between
Sermons. I'm laughing because we are already
having so much fun today, and it's
just gonna. I am having a blast.
This has been a great morning. I.

(00:20):
I think maybe I'm a little overtired,
and it's just coming out as, like,
no filter. And which means this is
gonna be a great podcast. It's gonna
be a great up when. When I
lose my ability to filter thoughts. This
is fantastic. But here we are in
Between Sermons, where we are continuing our
conversation from Sunday, which is always a
lot of fun. It's kind of like

(00:40):
we get to turn that monologue into
real dialogue, actually turn this into a
small group discussion like you might be
having. Having Having, like you might be
happening.

Marcus Ivy (00:50):
Yeah.

This is gonna be a long day.
It's gonna be awesome. But, you know,
it's kind of like the thing that
you would do in a small group
during the week, just kind of sitting
around a table with some friends talking
about the sermon and what it was
impacted you and how you process it
and how you're going to apply it
in your life. And so we're going
to try and do that today, dig
a little bit deeper. And in order
to have that conversation, I can't just
talk at a camera. I need to

(01:11):
hang out with some friends. And so
I got two great friends with me
today.

Ti'heasha Beasley (01:14):
I love that. You should make that
a part of your.

Anytime you tell me I should do
something, guaranteed it's not going to happen.
Not out of protest or rebellion, but
just out of. I will not remember.

That is insane.

Marcus Ivy (01:29):
I have two great friends.


Two great friends.

Such a.

You know, if. If you, like, put
it on the wall behind the camera,
I might remember to say it.

That would be a nice picture. Decor.

I have two great friends. Only two.

Only two.

And one of them usually lasts a
week or so. Taisha, that means you're
my only real friend.

That is sad. If I'm. Because you
treat me like crap.

What? Okay, I feel like you gotta.
You gotta roll that one back, because
people are gonna be like, pastor treats
his friends. No, friends, staff. And I
feel.

Maybe that's why I feel so comfortable
with you. I'm sorry. You do not
treat me like crap.

It's all good.

You greatly disciple me as my leader.

Marcus Ivy (02:20):
Good cleanup. Nice cleanup.

No, no. It might be something said
about the fact that my. My closest
friend is paid to be my friend.

Exactly.

Oh, people, we need Jesus.

Every time I try to come here
and be Serious. This always happens. So
we. This is a for real, true,
small group space because we get to
be ourselves. And yeah. We have Marcus
Ivy joining us today in this conversation.
Are you excited to be here?

Marcus Ivy (02:49):
Yes, very much so. Always.

You are?

Marcus Ivy (02:51):
Yeah.

Okay. Why are you excited today? Specifically
today?

Marcus Ivy (02:54):
Seems like it's going to be spicy.

Are you saying that because. Wow, there's.
You're saying that because I have one
of the leopards today.

Marcus Ivy (03:03):
No, see, you brought that. You brought
that up.

You were saying how you and Pastor
Britt were more dressed alike.

Marcus Ivy (03:09):
Oh, he said that.

I said, we're in sync. We just
have the light versus dark thing happening.
And I did that in reverse.

Marcus Ivy (03:15):
But you said you. And then I
said, yeah.

You tried to claim that you admit
this is maybe a good poll for.
For the people in the chat. Like,
are you more coordinated with Marcus or
am I more coordinated with Marcus? Yes,
I claim I am because we're both
in hoodies. Comfortable. Look like we want
to just hang out and chill.

I'm comfortable. I have on jeans.

Marcus Ivy (03:34):
You got on jeans.

Okay. Anyways, we're not gonna Harper there.
We're not gonna stay there. But no,
we started a brand new sermon series,
and I. I'm gonna tell you, I
brought my notes today, and I typically
do not bring my notes on between
sermons. I like to be in the
moment, but I feel like this will
be a real conversation about that message,

(03:56):
because it was. Now. The message was
spicy. Can you say that? That's probably.

I would say, like, in. In the
grand scheme of the it. It might
have been one of the more controversial
or like, in your face kind of.
Kind of messages that we've done in
a while. Not that we ever really
back away from those things, but I
think it. It's one of those messages.
So. So we're in a series called
Christian Atheists. And so it's one of
those things when you, like, you look
somebody in the eyes and you say,

(04:22):
I know you think you're a Christian,
but are you really? Like, that's. That's
offensive. Like, that's like, oh, how dare
you judge me? Yeah.

Yeah, that is. I have a lot
of thoughts, but before I dive in,
give us a little background of this
message so we can set up what
the conversation will look like.

Yeah, so we. We stole the premise
from Craig Groeschel at Life Church. It's
actually. So he did a sermon series
a couple of years ago, but it's
based off of a book he wrote.
Like, I want to say in like
2000 around 2010, 2011. Because I know
that's when I read it. So I
don't remember if he wrote it earlier
than that. I picked up a late
copy or if I got it, like,
right away. But it was one of

(05:00):
those books that just the title of
it caught me off guard. And then
as I started reading it, like, I
talked to our church about, like, it
really was one of the catalysts. It
was actually his book. And then a
sermon that I listened to a few
years after that, that really the catalyst
for me to say, man, I think
that there's. There's something better than Christian.
There's something that. That we're supposed to

(05:21):
do. Because I got frustrated, got tired
with how many times people would claim
Christian, but then like, say, but I
don't believe in the Bible, so. Well,
like, how do. You can't. You can't
do that. Like, you can't say you're
a Christian, but then say, but Jesus
was just a good, like, prophet and
moral figure. He wasn't God. It's like,

(05:41):
well, then you're not Christian. Like the
Christian title, like, it. It actually claims
some things. And so if we're actually
going to claim the title of Christian,
then there's a way that we should
be living. And so when we don't,
when we claim to believe in God
but then live like he doesn't exist,
Craig Rochelle put him in that category
of Christian atheist. I joke that, you

(06:03):
know, it's probably more accurate to say
that they're agnostics who grew up in
a Christian house, because I think that's,
you know, Christian and atheist. Obviously that's
an oxymoron. You can't put those things
together. But it's portraying this picture of,
well, I believe in God. I call
myself a Christian, but I'm not actually
doing the things God tells me to
do as a Christian.

Yeah.

And so that's kind of the. The
premise, the starting point for this series.

Yeah.

And so we're going to do three
weeks of it. I think Craig Groeschel
did, like, four weeks. He talked about
some different stuff. Yeah. So if you
want to double down or triple down,
you could read the book, you watch
his sermons, and you can watch ours,
and you'll actually get, like, three totally
different things. Yeah, I would around that
same idea.

I don't know if I would suggest
that.

Just the confusion of that.

I feel like just even sitting here
thinking about it, I like the perspective.
And you're right. I don't know what
perspective he came from, but even Thinking
about, like, how we're moving away from
the word, like, Christian wearing to disciples,
I feel like that's the approach you
brought to the table, which is like,
beneficial for our church. What do you

(07:08):
think, Marcus?

Marcus Ivy (07:09):
I think it's beneficial for everyone. Like
you said, the Christianity term, Christianity has
been weakened, you know. Right. And so
it's easy to slap that on an
interview or application that I'm a Christian,
but what does that really mean? You
know, so, yeah, I think it's needed
to put it right in front of
you. This is who you're supposed to

(07:29):
be.

Yeah. So you said the definition for
Christian atheists. I just wanted to read
it. Is a Christian or someone who
believes in God but doesn't live as.
Well, let me say it. But lives
as if he doesn't exist. So that
is the definition that we're using for
Christian atheist. And so I, I want

(07:53):
to know, has there been a time
in your lives and I don't care
what or order is answered. You lived
as a Christian atheist.

Marcus Ivy (08:04):
Yeah, I mean, I mean, you have
to be real with yourself. Right. So
everyone could. Should answer this question. Yes,
they have. So to be specific, you
know, when I first got saved, I'm
on fire. But then it's like, okay,
I still want to club a little
bit. I still want to do this
a little bit. I'm professing Christianity and

(08:25):
my friends like, man, bro, you in
the same spot where I'm at on
Thursday night at Secrets, you know, so
it's secrets.

Did you put the club.

Marcus Ivy (08:33):
Put the club out there? They no
longer exist. But, you know, just thankfully
I had some disciples around me who,
you know, was like, hey, bro. And
I wish I knew that term Christian
atheist back then because it's like smack
dead in the face, like, you ain't.
You ain't doing what you say, what
you're professed. So. So, you know, and.

(08:54):
And it's still a working process, you
know, over the years. So no matter
what level you're at, like, you should
take a look at, like, am I
being a Christian atheist? Like, you know,
and it brings you back. Like, seriously,
it brings you back. So the, the
title alone is just.

You almost want to argue against it.
Like, no, that's not. And, and it's.
I think one of the things that
you said, like, yeah, we're all a
work in progr. I don't want to
discount that. Like, I think some people
are going to hear some of the
things I said, like, you might be
a Christian atheist if. And I had
like, 15 things. Like. Like, it's. It's
absolutely one of those things where, like,
you would identify yourself probably somewhere in

(09:32):
that mix, but it doesn't mean you
are a Christian. Atheist is the soul
you might be if. Right. We totally
stole that from the old was Jeff
Foxworthy jokes. You might be a redneck.
If, like, it's just. These are indicators.
And what I would probably argue is
that it's almost like, man, I don't
know if I want to use the
terminology or not, but it's almost like

(09:53):
there's a spectrum. And it's like, okay,
like, how close to Christ are you?
And how close to just not Christ
are you? And so for all of
us, we're somewhere on that path.

Marcus Ivy (10:04):
Yeah.

The question is, are you trying to
get closer to the Jesus side or
not?

Marcus Ivy (10:09):
Right.

And what does that look like in
your life? So does that mean if
you struggle with sin, that means you're
a Christian atheist? No. But if you
are comfortable with your sin and you're
like, I'm. I'm good with this. This
is totally okay.

Marcus Ivy (10:22):
Yeah.

Then, yeah, you're not really a Christian
at that point.

Okay. So don't try to get out
the question because gave this really.

Oh, yeah. Have I ever been. Yeah,
yeah, 100%. Yeah, because. Because I agree
with Marcus. I said all of us
have to answer that truthfully. Like, yeah,
all of us have. There's an area,
there's something in your life where it's
like, oh, man, in that space, I'm
more atheist than Christian. Like, I'm acting
more like God doesn't exist than I'm
acting like I'm supposed to. And so,

(10:52):
like, for. Throughout the history of my
life, there's been different sin struggles I've
had. There's been. Man, there's moments when,
like, my language, man, I was cussing
like crazy. And so it was like,
if you just listen to what I
said, you'd be like, that kid's not
a Christian at all. And so it's
just. There's just been different, you know,
areas of my life at different times

(11:13):
when it's like, yeah, you grew up
in church, but do you really know
Jesus?

Yeah. Yeah. Is that the old school
term of, like, hypocrite? Are we just
putting a fancy name? Okay.

Yeah, it's because. Because Christianity is someone
who claims to be a Christian but
then doesn't live like it. Yeah, a
hypocrite is somebody who says something but
then doesn't follow it up with their
actions or does something different. So yeah.
100. Which is, which will give you
new perspective when you're reading the gospels
and you hear Jesus talk to the
hypocrites. Yeah, call out the hypocrites. And
it's like, oh, Christian atheists. Yes, right.

(11:46):
Or when Paul tells Titus, like they
profess God but then they're, they're. They
the works. How does he phrase it
now, now.

Are you talking about the, the virtue
reference in the message?

Titus 1?

Yes, I wrote it down. It's part
of my notes. Titus 1:16. To know
God, but they deny him by their
works.

Deny him by their works. That's what
works.

They are detestable. Oh yeah, I just
disobedient.

I love when he goes unfit for
any, any good works.

Marcus Ivy (12:14):
Like yeah, just, just not taking the
garbage out. Anything you ain't good for.

Literally Paul was like, this is what.
You just get rid of them. Like
they're, they're out of here.

And, and I love. Cuz I even
like read the, the verse above or
so 15 this. You're going into my
notes already. I wasn't even trying to
go direction, but it was, you know,
he was talking to false teachers during
that time. And I love how it
was like you're concerned with your works,
your rituals.

And you're doing stuff.

You're doing stuff, but you're not living
that lifestyle. And so it just made
me start to think about like, where
do you draw the line between like
good works? Because you did list 15
things. We're gonna list those in a
little bit. But where do you draw
the line between this is works and
this is actually a dedicated life to

(13:09):
like pleasing God?

I think part of it comes down
to motivation. Like why are you doing
it?

Yeah.

If you're doing it to try and
get into heaven, like that's, that's where
Paul gets into like he interrupts this
flow of thought of like it's just
to know him, know him, know him.
And it's like, oh, by the way,
it's by faith in Christ. Right. Um,
and so yeah, I think, I think
part of it is the motivation. Like
are you doing the stuff because you're
checking off a box that says, well,
if I want to get into heaven,
I need to do these things, or

(13:38):
if I'm going to look like a
Christian, I need to do these things.
I'm checking off a box. It's just,
it's out of obligation, not out of
a desire to know God. Right. And
so there's, there's things that we absolutely
do as believers, like That's. That's what
this whole thing is about. Like, there
are things you're supposed to be doing,
but you're doing them in order to
get close to God, not doing them
in order to look good or to

(13:59):
appear to want to know God. And
so it's really. I guess it comes
down to motivation. Like, what's the heart
behind why you're doing what you're doing?

Marcus Ivy (14:06):
I don't. I don't work to be
saved once save.

I work. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

It's like a trans. And you use
that verse about being transformed by the
renewing of your mind. It's like being
transformed. So let. Let's read some of
those. And. And I'm actually going to
your Facebook post that you put up.
I was like, look at our pastor
trying to be all creative with trying.

I had my wife tweak it a
little bit. I tried to have her
help, but I actually. I tried to
have AI do it first, and AI
sucks. This is awful. Like, this is
not helpful at all. That's probably just
my ignorance on how to make. Chat.

Marcus Ivy (14:47):
Do.

Do things that you want it to
do. And so I will confess, though,
I made that on Saturday during the
marriage event that we were at.

I know you had to make it
before Sunday.

Me and Marcus were at the same
marriage event, and there was. There was
a session where I was just. I
was falling asleep, and I was.

Marcus Ivy (15:03):
I was having fun.

So I pulled out my phone and
I was like, all right, let me
try and be productive.

Marcus Ivy (15:07):
Do a little work.

Yeah, let me get a little work
done. I feel bad about it because,
like, I should be in the moment,
and I really wasn't, so I repent.

Good was a.

That was a bad.

You're being a better Christian, better disciple.

Right?

All right.

What. What was funny. What's funny about
that list of 15 things is I
had a list of 12, and I
was like, this is way too much.
So I cut it down to 10,
and then I brought it to our
sermon planning group, and they're like, you
should add this and this and this.
And it ended up. I think we
changed a couple things, took away something,
and then the lists expanded to 15.
And I was like, you guys are

(15:42):
not helpful. Like, I came in here,
I'm like, I got too much. And
they're like, you don't have enough. All
right, that was fun. We just lost
power in the building, but we are
back, so we're going to try and
jump back into where we were. We're
going through these 15 things. You might
be a Christian atheist if.

If. And I'm like, delayed. All right.

Did you lose power?

I glitched. It's been a weekend, so
I definitely glitched. But you may be
a Christian atheist if you believe in
God, but you only open your Bible
when life falls apart. I think that,
yeah, that's more relatable than man.

Yeah. And I think that that one
might be the, the one that's easily
overlooked.

Yeah.

It's like, but I'm a Christian. I'm
a good Christian because I. I pray
and I try and follow God and
I, I go to church on Sundays
and all that stuff. But, like, your
Bible is completely covered in dust.

Yeah.

Or if I asked you to grab
your Bible, you'd be like, where did
I. Where is that? I haven't seen
that in a while.

Marcus Ivy (16:44):
And nothing against electronic Bibles, but it's,
you know, doesn't include that. Too many
devotion, you know, like, you really, in
your Bible, you really. In your Word.

Yeah. That's always the funny thing. I've
had. I've had it happen a few
times where, like, I'll mention a Bible
verse and some. I'll be like, yeah,
pull it, Pull it up on your
phone. And they like, they look at
their phone and like, scroll.

Marcus Ivy (17:04):
Don't even know where the app is
at.

Where did I put the Bible app
on my phone? And it's like, yeah,
you barely touched that thing, have you?

Yeah.

Marcus Ivy (17:10):
Put it on your home screen, people.

Yeah. I mean, and that is like
you said it, it can be one
easily overlooked because life do be life.
And it can be heavy. But I
think that it's a great alignment. Like,
this message was really good to align
you back because sometimes you can pick
up your Bible and you can just

(17:34):
look at it and you're not really
getting anything from it.

Yeah.

But it's like really diving in, studying,
hearing what God is saying.

Marcus Ivy (17:41):
But it's like, you know, and I
obviously, I had to learn this. Why
wait for something to happen to get
in. Let's be prepared with some scriptures
so I know how to combat different
things so I know what scripture to
go to. And I don't have to
wait in the midst of my chaos
trying to flip through the Bible app
or whatever to see what I need.

Yeah.

Yeah. I always love. So the Bible
says, the Holy Spirit's going to bring
to our remembrance. Yeah.

Marcus Ivy (18:05):
Yeah.

What can he bring to you?

But he can't bring your remembrance things
that you never learned.

That is good.

He's there to help you remember? Yeah.
You read not to teach you something
you haven't read.

Yeah.

Marcus Ivy (18:15):
Can't drink out of empty.

Well, right. I. I probably overuse Mark
Batterson's quote, but I still love it.
When it comes to knowledge of a
divine creator, you either have revelation or
speculation. Either he reveals, he speaks, or
we guess. And I think that that's.
That's what ends up happening. That's why
next week is going to be all
about trusting the Bible, because there's a
lot of Christians that just try and
like, guess what it looks like to

(18:38):
follow God instead of actually just going
to the book that is revelation of
how we're supposed to live. Because then
it becomes very subjective, it becomes very
emotion based. And I'm just going with
what I feel. Yeah, it's like, well,
the heart is deceptive above all things,
so what you feel is probably not
right.

Marcus Ivy (18:55):
Yeah, right.

Yeah, man. I was just listening to
a podcast and the girl was talking
about emotional idolatry. I've never heard of
that, but it was.

You make your emotions your God.

Yes. It was such an eye opener.
And I'm sure those type of people
only go to the Bible when things
are falling apart. Right? I mean, we
can all, you know, participate in that.
So. Man.

Marcus Ivy (19:20):
And you listen to other podcasts besides.
Besides between service.

No, actually she's like, it's research.

Marcus Ivy (19:26):
I'm just kidding.

It's research. It is. But actually I'm
just in a weird space like right
now. It's a weird season and I
feel like even like for me, stepping
away from like social media for a
season is something I feel like God
is telling me to do and, and
really like, like indulging in like his

(19:48):
word and other things, like spiritual, you
know.

What's your favorite non between sermons podcast?
Right now?

It's called Therapy and Prayer. Therapy and
prayer on Spotify. I've been really enjoying
that podcast. Yeah.

Marcus, what about you?

Marcus Ivy (20:03):
I don't do podcasts.

They're good. If you really find one
you like.

Yeah, my go to is the Bama
podcast.

The Bama.

Bama B E M A. It's just
a totally different perspective on the Bible
right now. I'm. They're in where I
am with the podcast and I'm like
five years behind because they've been doing
this for a long time or in
the Old Testament. And so it's, it's,
it's walking through from a Eastern mindset

(20:31):
instead of a Western mindset that sometimes
we come to the Bible as Americans,
even though it was Written by Jews.
And so it's. They're giving this Eastern
perspective of when. When they phrase it
this way, this is what it actually
communicated for the. The Jewish perspective they
talk about. Like, it's this idea that,
like, when. When a rabbi would give,

(20:53):
like, instructions, a lot of times it
would be like, okay, we're gonna. We're
gonna walk all the way around the
building to get to something that's right
next door. And so the American way
is just tell me how to get
right next door. Like, give me the
fast route. And the rabbi is like,
no, but I want to take you
on a journey.

Wow.

And so it kind of shifts some
of the baby pot. It's really good.

I like that. I might add that
to my listening for the next.

You know, it can get a little
nerdy. It's a little heady sometimes.

Okay, well, they. Never mind. I get
enough of that heat.

I'm just gonna say it. For me,
it's entertaining, but it's. It. Everybody's version
of entertaining is different.

So I am a little interested, but
not. Not. I don't want to make
that.

I would say David, if he isn't
already listening to it.

Okay.

He probably already is.

Yeah. Probably have the similar taste. All
right, next one. You believe in God,
but. Or you might be a Christian
atheist if you believe in God, but
you're getting drunk and high to cope.

Yeah, Yeah. A lot.

Marcus Ivy (21:56):
A lot of people use that because
they don't know the drink is in
the Bible, you know, but drunkenness in
the Bible, too. So they, you know,
they haven't made that correlation. They probably
didn't want to make that correlation because
they still stuck in their fun.

Yeah.

Marcus Ivy (22:08):
And so this will take away my.
From my fun.

Yeah.

Marcus Ivy (22:11):
And then, you know, the high thing,
don't talk about marijuana. Oh, that's from
the earth, so that's pure. That's natural.
You know, he put it here.

Don't smoke weed.

Marcus Ivy (22:19):
Right. Yeah, man.

It's that coping piece, though. You're turning
to something outside of Christ.

Yes.

And I think if we take away,
like, again, the works. Aspects. Aspect of
it, we are relying on something other
than Christ.

Yeah. And there. There was a pastor
I heard talk about this once. He's
a very famous guy, and it was.
It was interesting. He said he had
to have a season of just pure
repentance. He had to go to therapy
and all this stuff, because on Sundays,
like, it's kind of an inside joke
for preachers. Like, you go home Sunday.

Yeah.

Ready to quit, like. Yeah, no, Matter
how good Sunday was, there was always
something that wasn't good. And you just.
So Sundays, it's a stressful. It's hard.
And he started noticing how he would
come home on Sunday, sit in his
favorite leather chair and pour a glass
of scotch. He's like, only had one
glass. Like, I'm not getting drunk. But
he's like, but I started realizing that
that cow. That chair and that glass

(23:11):
was the thing that I was using
to calm myself and to process. And
like, if I had a bad day
at work or had an issue with
the staff, it was like, I can't
wait to go home and sit in
my leather chair and have my glass
of scotch. And he's like, I started
to realize that that chair and that
glass was becoming my God and the
thing that the Holy Spirit was supposed
to do in my life. Now all

(23:32):
of a sudden, this substance is doing
in my life, right? And he's like,
I had to. I had to repent.

I had to change my habits.

Marcus Ivy (23:39):
And it's not always the substance. You
know, video games, shopping and whatever.

I was going to say, you just
stepped on both of our toes. Shopping,
video games, whatever.

Marcus Ivy (23:50):
That.

I 100% agree. Like, I. I've had
those moments where I've had a st.
And. And people know, like, I love
video games. I actually, I didn't play
any this week, but usually it's very
rarely a week goes by that I
don't play something.

And you confess to going home, zoning
out on video games. Oh, yeah, yeah.
Christian, just play.

No. And I think the. The. What
happens, though? And there were seasons in
my life where that became my. My
thing. Like, I didn't go to God
in prayer. I didn't put on worship
music to pro. Like, it was like,
I had a bad day. I need
to go home and play video games
in order to get through this. And
it was. If that's how I have
to process seven days a week, like,

(24:32):
that's not good.

Marcus Ivy (24:33):
That's not good. Yeah.

When I start replacing God with something
else. Yeah, whatever that something else is.

Marcus Ivy (24:38):
Right?

Yeah, that's not good.

I just. Just hear, like. And I
know this is an old school term,
but God is a jealous God. And,
man, there's so many things we can
easily idolize.

Have no other gods before me.

None. And it's something.

And we makes things.

We make things.

Marcus Ivy (24:56):
Everything, a lot of things.

And it's. It's very convicting. I mean,
honestly, because you think about your life
and you say, well, I'm not. I'm
not drinking. I'm not getting.

Marcus Ivy (25:04):
Right. I'm not doing what they doing.

I'm not doing what they're doing. But
there is something you're turning to. Yeah.
Outside of Christ. And he is jealous
of that.

Marcus Ivy (25:13):
Yeah.

And I. I've noticed, man. Vulnerable moment.
Like, sometimes food is that for me.
Like, I have a bad day, and
it's like, man, I just need to
go eat something that's gonna make me
happy.

Yeah.

Like.

Yeah.

Like, I know this. This isn't a
healthy burger I'm about to eat, but,
man, I just. I just need the.
I don't know what it. The endorphins
or whatever it's gonna. The chemicals is
gonna release my body, and we start
turning to things instead of turning to
God, and that's dangerous.

Yeah. All right. You may be a
Christian atheist if you believe in God,
but your entertainment shapes you more than
the scripture does. Okay, you don't have
to unpack that one.

Yeah.

Because what does that mean specifically?

I think there's a lot of people
that, like, they take their personality, they
take their cues, they take their inspiration.
They take everything that they are based
on. Their favorite TV show, their favorite
media source, their favorite book, their favorite.
And so, like, they're allowing, like, all
of these other things. Like, it's almost
like there, you know, some. Some guys
that like sports are. Their personality.

Marcus Ivy (26:11):
Yeah.

Like.

Marcus Ivy (26:12):
Yeah.

The. The reality is sometimes the things
that we're supposed to be entertained by
become our personality becomes who we are.
And so now it's like, well, I'm
the. I'm the football guy. And.

Yeah.

You know, or I'm the. You know,
whatever.

Your identity becomes that.

And so. So now that form of
entertainment, that's the thing that's actually shaping
who you are, how you talk, what
you talk about, the way you dress,
what you look like. Like, it's all
about, like, following that instead of allowing
scripture to be the thing that actually
shapes who you are and what you
talk about and what you think about.
Wow.

Marcus Ivy (26:42):
Yeah. I know this guy who's into
sports, you know, pictures and cars and
stuff. And now that you say that,
everything is about that. Hey, Marcus, you
see this? I'm like, I don't want
to see that Same thing you said
last week. But, yeah, that's. That's his
identity. And I know some people from
my old job that. That's their identity,
you know, outside of the job. That's

(27:03):
all they talk about is the job.
Like, dude, I want to hear about
that.

Yeah. Yeah. And it's you know, none
of this is to say you can't
have hobbies, but when the hobby becomes
your personality, when it becomes everything for
you, it's like, man, how about we
make Jesus your hobby? If that's how
you treat a hobby.

Yeah.

Then let's make Jesus the thing that
you're obsessed with. Wow.

Yeah, that. That is real life. I'm.
I'm even thinking about on the female
side because, you know, we can't relate
to sports. Yeah.

Yeah.

But we have a lot of influencers.
We follow and, you know, different brands
that we identify with or now it's
even like eras. So I'm in my
soft girl era and, you know, no
idea. You don't know what that means?
It's a whole soft girl era. Yeah.

Nope, don't know that one.

It shapes your everything.

Andy, do you know what a soft
girl era is? Andy doesn't know either.

Pretty. Okay, thank you. Someone has to
know on this set.

Marcus Ivy (27:59):
My wife said something about soft girl.

Yeah, you are. I'm not, you know,
living a rough life, so I'm not
pumping my own gas anymore. I'm not,
you know, I barely will clean my
house. We're hiring somebody to do that.
I am, you know, it's a whole
thing. It's a whole mindset shift that
women are allowing to shape, you know,
who they are. Like, I'm in my

(28:22):
soft girl era.

Interesting.

Didn't know that, huh? Could I edit
that to the.

Marcus Ivy (28:28):
I know I've been out here. No
men talking about soft man. I'm in
my soft man era.

So you get punched in the chest.

Marcus Ivy (28:38):
Right?

So, yeah, man, being guarding your heart,
not letting these different things shape who
you are. That's good. You may be
a Christian atheist if you believe in
God, but you click on things online
that grieves God's heart. So we know
where you're going with that one.

Might be. It might be a little
obvious right there.

It's pretty obvious, but. Yeah, but I
don't know. It doesn't even have to
be that deep. It could just be
anything that you're making your idol, you
know? But yeah, you may be a
but you care about your social media
appearance more than your identity in Christ.

(29:22):
Okay, you gotta unpack that because we
live in the social media era.

I think that was one that that
soul added in the. In the sermon.
Yeah, that. Yeah, it's. It's. You're. You're
obsessed with posting the right thing to
show the right side of you. So
it's like you're obsessed with your highlight
reel on social media. And like, we
talked about, we had some people in
our life personally, that man that we
knew stuff was falling apart because we

(29:47):
had that relationship. But then we would
look at what they would post on
social media and it was like, not
making sense. It's like these two things
are not. They're not related. And it's
like. No, you just got obsessed with
trying to look a certain way to
the public, and you weren't actually trying
to be identified with Christ. And so
it's. Yes.

David has this thing where he says
you want to believe everything but God.
And I feel like we live in
that society now where it's like, with
social media, it's like this trend called
the Delulu trend. I know all this
stuff because of course I'm over social
media where you live a delusional life.

Yeah.

And so. And people are. They want
to be Delulu, so they'll say, I'm
in a Duluth. Like, I'm doing a
dulu trend. For the next 30 days,
I'm going to post what I want
to be, but I'm not that.

And so here's the guy equivalent or
the guy reference. The. The matrix, the
MA when he's eating the steak and
he says, ignorance is bliss. There's some
things that you just. You just don't
want to be ignorant of. It's just.
It's just. Yeah, it's just easier. It's
just more comfortable.

Marcus Ivy (30:52):
That takes too much work, like, to
perform, to put on performance like that.
Just.

People rather do all of this outside
of surrendering and submit to God, Working.

Marcus Ivy (31:04):
So hard like there's no return on
your investment in doing that at all.

Yes. Yes, man.

And I did fake Internet points, right?
Yeah.

To get Internet points.

Yeah, Fake Internet points. Like doing it
so I can get 57 likes and
20 shares. And you know, those things
mean nothing like that. Fake Internet points.

And then you start chasing them.

Yeah.

So that identity in Christ piece is
big. I feel like we. We have
a generation that's searching for identity and
they're looking to everything but Christ. So,
yeah, it's a good reminder. You may
be a Christian atheist if you believe
in God, but you don't love your
neighbor.

Yeah.

Pretty.

Yeah. The Bible has a lot to
say about loving your neighbor.

A lot.

And when you are a Christian, but
you're bitter and you're angry and you're
rude and you're a jerk to people
around you, it's like, did. Are you
really? Do you know who?

Yeah.

You're following. Yeah, I got a feeling
you don't.

And when God says neighbor, what is
he saying specifically to those who may
be like, well, I do love my
neighbor across the street.

Marcus Ivy (32:09):
He may be talking about them, because
some people don't even know their neighbors.

That's.

That's actually the. The best thing.

Right.

Like, so in that. In that verse,
when the. The. I think it's a
lawyer, I think is how it's described,
that. That brings up the question, Jesus
says, we'll love your neighbor. And the
guy repeats and he goes, who is.
Who is? Like, he asked the same
question you asked. And that's where. When
Jesus tells the story of the Good
Samaritan. And so basically what he's saying
is, your neighbor is probably not the

(32:35):
person you think of as your neighbor,
but your neighbor is whoever is in
need. And so your neighbor doesn't necessarily
mean the person that lives next to
you, but it could be. It could
be the person that lives next to
you. It could be the person in
the apartment across the hall from you
that you always try and avoid.

Marcus Ivy (32:49):
Avoid.

Like, that could be your neighbor, or
it could be a complete stranger on
the bus.

Yeah.

You have no idea where they live,
but they're your neighbor.

Yeah.

Yeah. So how do we love people?

You may be a Christian atheist if
you believe in God, but you are
still having sex with someone you aren't
married to. I feel like that's a.
Two folds. Could be. It can cover
fornication and adultery, because.

The Bible is very clear. Sex is
for the person you're married to.

Yeah, right.

And so when you're having sex, when
you're married to one person, having sex
with somebody else, that would be sin.
And if you're not married and you're
having sex with anybody, that would be
sin.

So what about. I'm just gonna say,
what about those having sex with themselves?
Where do they fall?

Yeah.

Okay. Because I know we live in
a very. People. Well, he said, not
my husband or not my. The person.
I see.

Marcus Ivy (33:47):
Even the past. It didn't even say
myself.

They try to exclude things.

I mean, you can try and exclude,
but it's. You're having sex with somebody
that you're not married to, you're not
married to yourself.

That's good. That was good. I never
heard that one.

By. By. By. You said you wanted
to find that, like, loophole in the
language.

Okay, I like it.

We.

We don't, you know, have no reason
to guess.

Marcus Ivy (34:10):
Zero.

Zero. All right. You May be a
but you decide first. But to decide
first and maybe pray later.

Yeah. This one was one of those
where probably more people are guilty of
than. Yeah, than some of the other.
Some of the others are like, way
in your face, like, this is clearly
a sinful action. Why are you doing
it as a Christian? This is one
of those where it's like, well, if
you say you believe in God, why
aren't you going to him?

Marcus Ivy (34:38):
Right.

Like, yeah, because when you keep trying
to solve all your problems by yourself
or, you know, you decide, well, I'm
going to figure this thing out and
then maybe I'll talk to God about
it. It's like, no, you're living like
an atheist. Like an atheist would solve
that problem in the same exact way.
So Christian atheist. Pretty accurate.

Marcus Ivy (34:54):
And it's, you know, habit for me.
Right. I think a lot of people
say, I'm gonna figure things out, and
it's just become habitual. Like, they forget
God.

Yeah.

Marcus Ivy (35:04):
But, you know, it's just start making
a practice of everything. Small things seek
God first in the small things, you
know, and shopping or whatever the case
may be, seek them at the gas
station. Just seek them, put them in
everything. And then those things, it just
become normal to you.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And there's a lot
of times when God may have nothing
to say about it.

Marcus Ivy (35:25):
Right.

That's fine. Then move on forward. But
when you get into the habit of
doing it, then when God is like,
you know, actually, I really want you
to do something for me. Right. You're
ready for it. Because you've already gotten
in the habit of going to heaven.
Because I think sometimes there's things that
look obvious to us where it's like,
oh, clearly this is from God. And
he's like, no, actually, that. That was

(35:46):
a trap, and I wanted you to
not go that direction.

Marcus Ivy (35:50):
That came. This actually came up in
our foundations class yesterday. We was talking
about putting God first and letting him,
you know, putting him in every decision.
It was like, you know, like a
husband and wife. Like, I'll go to
the car lot and buy my car
without seeking my wife permission or God,
you know, it's like. And then you
get there and you're in the middle
of making this deal, and it's. It's

(36:10):
haywire, you know, because, like, you didn't
seek God for a car. You. You
may need a car. But he didn't
tell you go by Escalade. He told
you, stay within your budget, stay within
your means, and Stuff like that. And
yeah, so we, we have to see
God on every single thing.

Yeah. That's good. All right. You may
be a Christian atheist if you believe
in God, but you talk to everyone
about your problems except him. So that's
kind of the same. Same thing, same
category. You believe in God, but you
treat Sundays like a hobby and not
a priority. Yeah. What was that? Like,

(36:46):
why you just slid in, like, we
gonna get them here?

Not so. So that one is probably
directed to the people, like, well, I
don't need to go to church to
follow Jesus. He's like, but he kind
of told you to. I mean, in
Hebrews it tells us, don't neglect the
gathering together of the believers. Like, there's,
there's, you're supposed to be coming together.

Yeah.

And there's, there's benefits for you, but
there's also, there's such a. This is
what drives me crazy for people. Like,
well, I'm not gonna go to church.
I'm just gonna follow Jesus on my
own. That's so selfish.

Marcus Ivy (37:15):
Yes.

Like, just pay attention when you're reading.
If that person is actually reading their
Bible. Pay attention to how many times
in the New Testament were instructed to
something one another?

Yeah.

One another one another one. It comes
up all the time. How are you
going to do the one another if
it's just you and your house?

Marcus Ivy (37:34):
Right.

That's true. Yeah. Well, mic drop.

Yeah.

Marcus Ivy (37:40):
And then a lot of. I mean,
we don't realize we have what's in
us. Like, everyone has been given a
gift and you're sitting at home and
somebody needs your gift. Like, you need
to come out and put your gift
on display. And although gift is not
just for the church, but if you're
just sitting at home, it's. It's worthless.

Yeah.

Marcus Ivy (37:58):
So.

Yeah.

Yeah. And I think isolation is just
a tool of the enemy in general.

Marcus Ivy (38:03):
Yeah.

He likes to. So. Yeah.

Yeah. I love a friend of mine
one, one time said, you know, church
is. Is weird because the only thing
where somebody will be like, I got
offended. I got upset at something that
happened at the church. So I'm never
going to go to church again. But
if that same person was like, man,
this bartender at my favorite bar was
rude to me, you know, so I'm
never going to any bars again. No.
Like, you're just going to pick another
one down. You're still going to go
to the bar. You just, you're just

(38:27):
mad at that bartender. But it's like
something happened to me at church. I'm
never going to go to church again.

Marcus Ivy (38:32):
Yeah.

It's like, well, that's just a really
dumb way of living.

That is really weird, actually, because I
feel like we do get offended a
lot outside of the church, but if
it happens in church, it's a rap.
Like, I wonder why that is.

I got places that I don't go
anymore.

Right.

Because of. Of the service that I
got there or something that happened there.
But I'll go to the one in
a different town.

Yeah, right.

Same thing. Just a different place. Well,
you know, I'm gonna find a place
that fits.

Yeah, no, that's a lot. I think
it's because we idolize people, but I'm
gonna keep moving. I don't know why
this word idolization keeps coming up, but
you may be a Christian atheist if
you believe in God, but you abuse
your wife or husband.

Because I think I almost changed the
spouse. But, yeah, I wanted to punch
some husbands in the chest.

Got it. Okay. Yeah. Okay, Enough said.
You may believe in God, but your
obedience only happens when you're comfortable. That
probably hit everybody.

Yeah, I mean, Jesus pretty clear. Take
up your cross daily. Like, we don't
do that when it feels good. We
do that when it feels good, and
we do that when it feels bad,
and we do that when it feels
nothing. Like, if your obedience is tied
to your comfort, then you're only really
following yourself. And what you've determined is
that your God is you.

Marcus Ivy (40:01):
I mean, just look at. Look at
Christ, you know, carrying our. Carrying our
burdens, carrying across the actual him. Carrying
a cross to be hung on, like,
that wasn't comfortable. And, you know, we
get so Just been out of shape
when we got to do something. Look
what he did for us. That wasn't
no type of comfort at all. So

(40:22):
he was obedient. And obedient will get
you past all of that stuff. So,
yeah, be obedient.

Yeah. And obedience. I feel like what
I'm learning. I'm in the middle of
a. I should have been obedient to
something that God told me to do
at the top of the year. He
told me to study the word. The
word joy. I was like, wait, okay,
like. And not that I disobeyed it,
like, intentionally. I just kind of got
bored with it because, like. And I

(40:52):
really didn't take it as serious as
I should have. But now, yeah. In
a season where joy feels like I'm
grabbing for it, I was like, I
should have.

Marcus Ivy (41:01):
Wow.

Should have been obedient.

He was trying to set you up.

Yeah, he was Trying to. And then
the same podcast I listened to said
that joy is a tool because it's
like strength, like. And so I was
like, my gosh, like, you were really
trying to help me, and I, I
messed myself up. So a lot of
times being disobedient is not just let
me do what God said and, you
know, but it's for your good. It's

(41:24):
for your good. It's. Everything is working
together for your good.

The Bible's very clear obedience is better
than sacrifice. And so you want to,
like, given the offering and you want
to go on the mission trip, but
you don't want to actually obey on
a daily basis. You can sing the
songs. Sure. It's great worship, great sacrifice.
Where's your obedience?

Yeah, you know little things too. Yeah,
right? You may be a Christian atheist
if you believe in God, but you
can't forgive.

Yeah, that one was. We just slipped
that one in there. Just because the
Bible is so clear and direct about
forgiveness. But I meet Christians all the
time. That will tell me, well, I
can't forgive that person because of xyz.
It's like, I understand. And that, that
becomes such a sticky conversation because, like,
I recognize somebody doesn't say that willy

(42:20):
nilly, like, not just like off the
cuff. Like, they say that because there
is some deep pain and hurt. And
so, like, it's hard to navigate those
moments because it's like, well, yeah, I,
I recognize what that person did to
you. You was awful. But you've got
to find a way to forgive them.
Doesn't mean you give them access to
your life. It doesn't mean that you
bring them over to the house. But

(42:40):
for your say, you need to release
that because if not, it acts as
a poison in your own life, man.

It's.

Yeah, forgiveness is a tough one for
some Christians.

Marcus Ivy (42:50):
Yeah.

And I get it. But Bible doesn't
say forgive unless they did fill in
the blank.

Marcus Ivy (42:56):
Right.

It just says, forgive me.

Marcus Ivy (42:59):
Forgiveness is freeing. I remember I came
to a point in my life where
I had to forgive my mother for
the things, you know, over the years.
And that happened when I was 40
years old. And so in that moment,
it was in the growth track room.
It was a men's night. I've never
felt free in my life that free

(43:19):
in my life just forgiving her. So,
yeah, forgiveness for yourself is definitely, definitely
friend.

You may be a Christian atheist if
you believe in God, but who the
president is takes up more of your
thoughts than who the king is. That
was a true mic drop. So I
Love that you saved it for less.

I saved it for last. And I
phrase it the way I phrase it
because it applies to Republicans and Democrats
equally. Like, if. If who the President
is makes you happy. But that's all
you're talking about, all you're thinking about.
That's all you post on social media.
That's an issue. If who the president
is makes you furious, but that's all
you're thinking about, that's all you're talking
about. That's all you're posting on social

(44:06):
media. We got a problem.

Marcus Ivy (44:07):
Yeah.

So it's one of those where it's
like, if you like him, if you
don't like him, if he becomes more
important in your life than who the
King is, that's a problem.

Marcus Ivy (44:17):
It's funny, the response. You know, you
could tell who is who by the
response in the room. He was talking
about you.

That was the funny thing for me.
Like, each service, that section got a
lot of response, but it was like,
different ones hit different. Like, it was
like somebody over here was like, ow.
And then somebody over here was like,
oh. It was like. Like, at different
moments, it was. It was interesting.

Marcus Ivy (44:42):
And it's.

They.

Marcus Ivy (44:42):
That response for the service I was
in had the most response out of
all 15.

Like, I think that was true. The
last one got people the most.

That's. I mean, it's the most relevant
one right now. One of the most.
Not.

Marcus Ivy (44:56):
It's a lot going on.

Yeah. I think we should rename the
series from Christian Atheist. So you may
not be a disciple.

I don't know. I kind of like
my. My title of you're actually agnostic,
but you grew up in a Christian
household, so you use the title Christian
as a default. Yeah.

Yeah. That's a long title, though.

It is. It's such a long title.
But it's like.

It.

It's what Craig Rochelle is talking about
when he says Christianity.

Marcus Ivy (45:19):
The.

It's really funny because I did watch
one of his messages and the chat.
Like, the comments all throughout it were
a bunch of atheists getting mad that
he was using the term. That's not
what that means. And that's. You can't
put those words together. And it's like,
that's the point. Like, you can't put
them together because it doesn't make sense.

Right, right.

To say you believe in God. But.
And. But, yeah, all. All throughout the
comments, they're like, that's actually an agnostic.
If you believe in God. Yes, we
know. Know. We know. We were aware.

Marcus Ivy (45:47):
Thank you.

We have a high iq. Well, I
am gonna go ahead and land that
plane, man.

You did our intro. That was like.
You didn't get anything.

It was a, I had my phone.
We were at, we, we were there.
But no, no, no, I mean from.

The sermon, like that. That was our
intro.

That was the intro. But that was
the intro. I feel like these messages
are gonna be so much like. Because
I said I have.

So you don't want to help people
actually know God. You don't care about.
Yes, I was going to say about
through the sun.

Go ahead, go ahead.

Marcus Ivy (46:21):
Clothes again.

I'm just saying let's do it. Let's,
let's go ahead and do this.

You got things you got to do,
you got place you got to be.

No, I just, those were things that
really stuck.

That's what you cared about.

I like the intro. No, it was.

So you were done with my sermon.
Ten minutes.

Marcus Ivy (46:35):
That was it.

Man. What are we going to do?

So I was going to say, I
didn't even get to conclude like what
I wanted to say. I was going
to say before we land the plane,
how can we do application and introduce
people to God? So thank you.

Yeah, so, so that was. So that,
literally that, Sorry, it's hard to be
that guy. But you're used to it
by now.

I am.

I'm used to it. Yeah. No, so
that literally was the introduction to the
idea of Christian atheists. But we, we
spent a lot of time on Sunday
actually talking about the first cause of
Christian atheism. What, what actually makes somebody
fall into those categories? And so it's
ignorance, it's a lack of trust or
it's a lack of reverence. And so

(47:22):
Carlton's going to talk about that trust
with the Bible next week. Jason's going
to talk about the reverence the week
after. So Sunday was really supposed to
be about maybe I did a poor
job. I don't know.

No, you didn't.

Of, of. I believe in God, but
I don't know him.

Yeah.

And for me like that's, that's maybe
the biggest issue because if we don't
actually know God, then we're not actually
following God. And so sometimes we claim
to be a Christian, but when you
start asking questions about, well, who are
you following? Yeah, like it's, it's a
man made definition of God or it's
a, it's a self idle kind of

(48:00):
situation going on. It's like. But that's
not actually what the Bible describes as
God.

Yeah.

And God actually wants you to know
him, not just God, but the actual
Father, Son, Holy Spirit, like the triune
God, like who he actually is. And
so it's this knowing that becomes so
important. And so in the message, you
know, we broke down in Greek, there's
a ton of different ways you can
say to know something, and it's based

(48:28):
on how you come to that knowledge.
And honestly, I think I came up.
I think I came across. There's seven
or eight different ways that you could
actually say that. But we just highlighted
the three that it could be based
on observation, it could be based on
information, or it could be based on
personal experience. And almost every time, especially
every time it talks about knowing God,
it's always using the ginosko. It's always

(48:49):
using the personal experience. Like, this is.
This is not about information. This is
not about observations. And we can have
information about God and we can make
observations about God. Just watching the universe,
looking at life. Like you make observations
about God, but that's not enough. You
have to actually have personal experience with
him. You have to know him personally.

That's good.

Marcus Ivy (49:09):
I witnessed that in my, you know,
in the beginning of my years. For
a long time. It took a long
time. Like, I was a student of
the Word. I studied and to prepare
to teach.

Yeah.

Marcus Ivy (49:20):
And in my preparation, like, that's all
I cared about, was getting the information
out. Like, I was reading God's stats
and Jesus stats, like, you know, you
know, about Jordan, but I wasn't spending
time in getting to know him. I
wasn't spending personal time. And I thought
I was, man, I'm saved. I know
how to do this. I put this

(49:41):
out, but I saw the fruit, the
lack of fruit from it, where it's
like, dude, I was, you know, you
was preparing to teach. Great job. But
what about me and you?

Yeah.

Marcus Ivy (49:53):
And so that was, I mean, and
it was years, like where, I mean,
five to eight years when I, where
I was doing it and I saw
where, you know, my faith was getting,
you know, weekend. And I'm like, I'm
teaching. I'm Minister Mark. I'm this. But
I didn't know.

You're talking about God more than talking
to God.

Marcus Ivy (50:10):
Yeah, Yep.

That's so good.

Marcus Ivy (50:12):
And so, you know, just once I,
you know, got that it was. It's
totally different. And it changed the way
I. How I presented and things like
that prepared. But you gotta, you gotta
know him. You gotta know him. And
reading his stats is not enough.

Yep, yep.

Yeah, that is so true. And it
takes away that, that what you hear
a lot. Oh, I grew up in
church or, you know, I've always been
around it. And David hates when I
say this, but I. Maybe I shouldn't
say it, but, like, I don't feel
like I really got saved till, like,
2008. And I know that's very recent.
And I grew up in church and
I've served in leadership prior to 2018.

(50:48):
But I think it was that moment
when I realized I don't really know
God. I was just doing the things
kind of like he said in Titus
when he was talking to the false
teachers. It was like, you know, how
to live a pure life. You know,
not live, but put on the show
of purity. But you're not really living
what you are saying out of your

(51:10):
mouth. And once I experience God, it
transformed my life. And those are the
times where you feel like I can
never walk away from God because I
experienced Him. And so I think that
is my prayer for people to really
know him in that way.

And that's the beauty of the journey
that we're on. And I try to
hit that at the close of the
message that when we talk about this
is a lifelong journey. Like, you're getting
to know him more and more. Paul
said, you know, I want you to
know God better. Right? And it's this
idea that, like, that's how big God
is. Like, that's how amazing God is
that you get to have a fresh

(51:51):
experience with him every single day that
you can. I've spent 35 years now
following Jesus, and I know him better
today than I ever have. And it's
one of those where it's like, I
better know him better a year from
now than I do right now. Like,
that's. That's the journey that we're on.
And it's exciting, right? Like, you know,

(52:13):
Paul even talks about, like, we know
in part.

Yeah.

But one day we're gonna know fully.
And it's like, man, you can spend.
You could be Paul writing the New
Testament and still be like, yeah, I
don't know everything about God, man. I'm
still learning, I'm still growing. And one
day I'm going to know fully. It's
like the veil is going to be
pulled away. I'm not going to be
looking in a mirror. I'm going to
actually see him face to face. Come
on.

Marcus Ivy (52:35):
That's it.

Yeah. So that's. That's the journey that
we. We all should be on as
true Christians is to know God better.
And we. We need to make sure
that that becomes the focal point, the
priority of our life. Because if it's
not the priority, you're not going to
really know him. And if that's. If

(52:58):
the danger is Jesus saying, depart from
me, I never knew you. Using the
same phrase that he said earlier to.
To denote that if you want eternal
life, you have to know God. And
he uses the same exact word. Like
this. This knowledge, it's personal, it's intimate,
it's relational. And so if you just
have a stat sheet, but you don't
really know him, if you're not really

(53:19):
spending time with him. Right. Like, what
are you doing? And so we want
to. We want to get to know
God. That's. That's. If you wanted to
boil down what it means to be
a Christian, it's somebody that's trying to
know God.

Marcus Ivy (53:30):
I had a friend before I got
saved, and we was. We was drinking
at his house, hanging out, and he
was like, you know, we obviously always
get super deep when you got a
couple libations in you, man. And so
he was like, man, I read the
Bible five times. And I don't know,
I came out of my. I wasn't
drunk or nothing. I just came. I

(53:50):
came to my senses, like, you know,
and I had been hearing about. I
was like, right there. It was like,
maybe less than a year that I
got saved after that. And I was
like, if this dude said he read
the Bible five times and he doing
the same thing I'm doing, why I
want to do that? Like, you know,
my brother kept, you know, talking to
me about Christ, but I'm like, the
same dude say he read the Bible,

(54:11):
the one that you say, you professor
profess. Like, I don't want no parts
of that if we doing the same
thing. So, you know, we have to
be. We have to be careful. And
it goes back to the knowledge he
didn't know God.

Yeah.

Marcus Ivy (54:22):
You know, you can do the. The
year plan every year and everything, but
he just.

Words.

Marcus Ivy (54:27):
Words on a page. Yeah. So thank
God I came to know him.

Yeah. That's a lot to unpack. If
you think about it. It's like, very
heavy because we. We don't grow, like,
okay. Our kids are privileged to grow
up to hear, like, the truth. I
grew up. And I'm not saying that
the churches I went to were heretical.
Heretical. But I just think we just
were regurgitating what we knew. And it
was all about actually taking that 15

(54:55):
list and say, follow this and that's
it.

Right.

And not saying, develop a relationship with
Christ. So you don't drink, you don't
smoke, You. You dress modest, you do
this. It's a list. But that was
it. It never. Right. It never was
a continuation of get to know God.
So I like how you married the
two together.

Yeah. Because the list thing is not
necessarily bad. Like, yes, you should be
avoiding these things. The Bible calls them
sin. So you, you should not do
those. But don't not do them just
because I tell you, don't do. Don't
do them because you're in relationship with
God and he's telling you, don't do
these things. It's like, oh, but in
this relationship, like, I don't want. I
don't want to do things that are

(55:35):
going to hurt my wife. Like, I'm
in a relationship with her. Why would
I intentionally do something that's going to
damage that relationship? Right, Right. And so
there's some things that I won't do
in the marriage that it's. It's not
about checking off a to do list
or a don't do list. It's about,
I want to honor her, I want
to love her. And so it's the
same thing with God. Like, there's things
that we do and there's things that

(55:56):
we don't do, but it's out of
relationship. It's not in order to, like,
check a box or prove ourselves or
to get into heaven. Right. It's that
whole carpet for the horse thing. Like,
we, we don't do the. We don't
live like a Christian in order to
be saved, but because we're saved, we're
going to live like the Bible tells
us to live.

Yeah.

And when we get it wrong, we're
going to repent. And I mean, that's
part of the process. Like, none of
this is saying, like, if you're hearing
this message and you're like, well, so
you have to be perfect to really
be a Christian.

Yeah.

No, like, that's not what we're saying
at all. But you do need to
be following Jesus, and when he tells
you to stop doing something, you go,
okay, I'm gonna stop doing that thing.

Marcus Ivy (56:34):
And I think we have to be
careful, too. Now, thinking about all of
this, is that how we, you know,
we're called to be one and make
one, but how we disciple people, how
we bring a new believer on to
Christ. Right. For years is okay, now
you're saved. Now I'm gonna show you
what not to do.

Right.

Marcus Ivy (56:49):
I'm gonna take you straight to the
list of do's and don'ts.

That's so true.

Marcus Ivy (56:52):
Instead of now, I think, you know,
as believers, once we get someone who
comes out in as a believer, it
should be, I'm going to teach you
how to follow God, how to know
God. And I think that'll change, that'll
strengthen the foundation of the Christianity. Because,
you know, growing up, we did see
these. Don't do this. Don't do what
Auntie Cheryl did, you know, don't do
this or don't do this. And our

(57:14):
focus has been. Has been out of
whack so all over the land. Not
just because we're a disciples church, but
everyone who called on the name of
the Lord Jesus Christ. Once you come
into that, we should teach people how
to know Christ.

Yeah.

Marcus Ivy (57:26):
And all that other stuff, it'll come.
All the other stuff, it'll come. It'll
fall off, you know. You know, however
it may be.

And that's why, I mean, you hear
a lot of people turning away from
the faith and it's because they are
being discipled in a way of check
this list off. And then they realize
or they have this moment where they're
like, well, I'm never going to be
perfect. I'm never going to be able
to hold, withhold this. So I don't
even want to have nothing to do
with God at all.

Which is funny because Bible tells us
that's the point of the law. It's
to show you you can't do it.
Yeah. Like, here's the list of things
that you have to do in order
to be saved. By the way, you're
not gonna be.

Marcus Ivy (58:02):
Able to do this.

That's. That's the Bible's message. Right. And
so instead, Christ is going to complete
that list for you. And if you
will just find yourself in Christ. Yeah,
you're good.

Marcus Ivy (58:13):
Good.

That's good.

Yeah. So it's. It.

Marcus Ivy (58:18):
It.

I highly recommend listening to the message.
I think it was. I think it
was an important one and I know
I preached it and so that might
be a little bit weird, but it
is.

Marcus Ivy (58:26):
It was definitely.

I agree, I agree with you. I
think it rocked a lot of us.
And it was a good alignment, like,
realignment message. As we conclude this fourth
quarter, let's not go into 2026. Right.
Raggedy. I don't even know how to
say it.

Right.

Anyway. Raggedy ratchet. Raggedy whatever. And an
atheist. All right, well, let's play that
plane as I cannot speak this morning,
but what's one takeaway you want to
leave with people as we go into
the next series. The next part of
the series, man.

Marcus Ivy (59:00):
No God.

No God.

There you go.

Marcus Ivy (59:02):
No God.

Very simple.

That's.

Marcus Ivy (59:03):
It's real simple, really. It's not about
checklists and do's and don'ts. No one's
perfect. No God.

Yeah, Yeah. I like. I like James
and Jeremiah that I used towards the
end of the message. So James says
to draw near to God, he'll draw
near to you. Jeremiah says, when you
seek me with all your heart, you'll
find me. And so I think there's
just this message. So that's Old Testament
all the way through to New Testament,
you're getting the same message that God's

(59:31):
not playing hide and seek. Like, you
want to find God, you're gonna find
him because he wants to be found.
And so if you want to know
God. Awesome. Because he wants you to
know him too.

Yeah.

And so we're going to do some
things. Yes. In order to draw near
to Him. And so make sure you're
doing those things. Make sure that every
day you've set aside time to make
it the priority. Right. I made the
joke of, like, it seems like in
order to actually know God, you have
to make him the priority of your
life. It's going to take a lot
of time. And it only seems that
way because it is that way. Like,

(01:00:03):
it's just the reality of it. Like,
knowing God takes time.

Ti'heasha Beasley (01:00:05):
Yeah.

Pastor Brent McQuay (01:00:06):
I got 35 years of experience knowing
God and guess what? It's it. I'm
still learning, I'm still growing. You will
too. You're going to spend the rest
of your life from this moment on
trying to know God.

Yeah.

It's fun. It's exciting.

It is. I like that. Getting to
know people. Never get bored. Bored or
old. Okay, I'm gonna stop talking because
clearly it's time for me to wrap
up. It's clearly time for me to
wrap this up. So my takeaway would
be, relationship with God is important. It's
not about, you know, your works and
the things that you do. This list

(01:00:40):
is an encouragement to kind of help
you realign. But the true thing I
think Pastor Brent was saying and encouraging
us to do is to build relationship
with Christ. And so that is something
I will also encourage you to do.
Like it is. It is amazing to
have Jesus as your friend. I. I
like to call him my bff. And

(01:01:02):
I think it's true. He is. He
cares about you. He sees you, is
concerned with you. And a lot of
the things he lay out is for
your good. So develop that true relationship
with him. And I think you'll be
good. You'll be good. And so we
hope you enjoyed this message. Go back
and listen to the full sermon. It

(01:01:23):
was. It was fire. I'll give you
that. And it's a good way to
start off this Christian atheist series. So
just keep tuning in. I feel like
it's gonna keep getting more and more
spicier. I think this was. If this
was spicy, it's gonna be flaming hot.
By.

Especially that third week, just knowing Jason's
personality and the topic I gave him,
like. Like, here you go, Jason.

A great combination, man. So let's be
here for it. And until next week,
we love you and God bless.

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You Might Be a Christian Atheist If… | Knowing God vs. Just Believing in Him

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