February 9, 2023 • 37 mins
What Good Looks Like – An Interview with Mike Zelek
An interview with the head of HR of Wellington Group of Companies, where he explains the ins and outs of a healthy trucking company. Listen to the many practices that he discusses helps makes drivers feel valued, with a high retention rate, and far more good days than bad ones.
(Taken from Truck News : Mike Zelek has been working in transportation for more than 10 years. He has worked in logistics, dispatch and recruiting before settling into his role as vice-president of human resources at Wellington Group of Companies. Mike was named the National Recruiter of the Year at the National Recruiting and Retention Symposium in 2021 and has led Wellington to three straight years of being named one of the Truckload Carriers Association's Best Fleets to Drive For. He has presented at many industry events and currently volunteers on several transportation related committees.)
Mike Zelek’s email: mzelek@wellingtonmotorfreight.com
Mike Zelek’s LinkedIn account : https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelzelek/
Mike Zelek’s articles in Truck News https://www.trucknews.com/author/michael-zelek/
Connect with Tanya Hewitt on LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/tanya-hewitt-55804529/
Buy her a coffee: https://www.buymeacoffee.com/tanyah
Credits:
Adam Johns – voiceover - https://www.linkedin.com/in/adamjohns730/
Beverley McKiver – composer and player of the music Tell Me About Love - https://www.linkedin.com/in/beverleymckiver/
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Adam Johns (00:03):
Welcome to Beyond the Minimum, where we'll be exploring the world of work. We'll be chatting about concepts, ideas and phrases, explore practices and delve into what good looks like. Work can be purposeful value lead, and more meaningful to all who interact with the workplace. This podcast is brought to you by Tanya Hewitt who lives in unceded Algonquin, Anishinaabeg territory, otherwise known as Ottawa, Ontario, Canada.
Tanya Hewitt (00:33):
This episode has been a very long time in coming. But I'm so excited to share with you this content because when healthy employers agree to share some of their practices with the community, we can start to learn how incredibly well run companies can be. So today, we're going to be talking with Mike Zelek, who works for a trucking company. That's right, a trucking company. Trucking companies went through highs and lows at the beginning of the pandemic, there were all sorts of "Thank a Trucker" posters and accolades everywhere. However, that was very short lived. And right now we seem to be in a desperate need for trucks and truck drivers in order to be able to move supplies to their destinations. And a lot of companies are out there scrambling for drivers. We're going to listen to Mike Zelek talk about how his company doesn't have such a
(01:45):
problem amongst a whole lot of other practices that they utilize in order to keep their company healthy.
Adam Johns (01:58):
Today's episode is what good looks like.
Tanya Hewitt (02:06):
So thank you so much, Mike, for agreeing to come on to the Beyond the Minimum podcast, this type of episode of what good looks like, because I believe our audience would be able to learn so much from a lot of what you have to share. So Mike, why don't we start off with you introducing yourself and where you work and what role you have.
Mike Zelek (02:32):
Cool. So my name is Mike Zelek, I work for a company called Wellington Group of Companies. We've got several different smaller companies that that make that up. Almost all of them transportation related. And I'm the director of human resources. So I've got a major hand in the recruiting and retention of truck drivers, as well as our office staff and the Human Resources fun that comes along with it. But for the purpose of today, I mean, my main focus is going to be on recruiting and retaining drivers and kind of sharing what, what's worked for us so far.
Tanya Hewitt (03:06):
Wonderful. So, Mike, last week, we set up a call to basically go over this recording, and you were on route to someplace regarding your workplace. So would you mind just walking us through that whole adventure that you had last week?
Mike Zelek (03:26):
Yeah, absolutely. When, when we talked us somewhere along the 401 on the way with a co worker up to Bedford Quebec, where we've got a fleet of somewhere between 25 and 30 drivers. And the point of the trip up there was to meet a lot of the drivers that we haven't had the chance to meet yet to bring them their gifts from driver appreciation month, which is what we did throughout the month of August. And to kind of give ourselves a chance to just to get to know the drivers better where we went over a couple different dinners with them and their partners and visit a few different sites out there. And just a real nice trip where we had the chance to actually shake some hands and share some laughs with a lot of the drivers that we only communicated with the phone calls texts and emails up till then.
Tanya Hewitt (04:11):
That sounds fantastic. So you said that you are the head of HR.
Mike Zelek (04:16):
That's right.
Tanya Hewitt (04:17):
You just placed yourself to go out to the workplace where this set of drivers were whom you hadn't met before?
Mike Zelek (04:26):
Yeah, most of them I hadn't met unless you know the route had brought them out toward Ontario as joined with our recruiting and retention manager a woman named Jessica Mata as well as the head of our marketing department, a woman named Rachel and we had a great time out there. I mean to some people you know, driving six hours on a Friday to spend a weekend in Bedford Quebec with you know, a lot of co workers isn't your ideal weekend but we had a lot of fun and you know, all the drivers were very happy to see us and put a face to the name and vice versa. And, you know, it's something that we plan on doing on on a quarterly basis now that, you know, there's less concern about COVID, and travel restrictions and stuff like that.
Tanya Hewitt (05:11):
Wonderful. You had mentioned that you had a driver appreciation month and that you were giving out awards. Could you walk us through a little bit about that whole concept? Yeah,
Mike Zelek (05:23):
For sure. One thing that I've, I've kind of noticed that I've been working in transportation over 10 years now, and most of that was asset-based companies. When it comes to driver appreciation, you know, there's often a barbecue at noon on a on a Wednesday that most of the drivers are out on the road for and it's more so for the dispatchers, and then, you know, when the drivers get back from their trip, there's a few cold patties left on the on the grill, not an ideal way to, you know, show your appreciation to the to the drivers that are out there and working hard. So we change things around a little bit where for the month of August, every weekday we have a different promotion for our drivers. That's something that's applicable to almost everyone in our fleet where, you know, one day we might do, you know, trucker bingo, where take a picture of
(06:12):
you fueling your truck and let us know if you see a truck that's red, or that's missing a mud flapper,whatever it is, Mother's day, we're giving away gift cards, or we're doing trivia contests. We had one where we gave the drivers a list of four different charities to choose from. And we said let us know where we want or where you want us to donate $20 to. And one of them was truckers against trafficking. One of them was Sick Kids Hospital, one of them was Colorectal Cancer Canada. And I can't remember the fourth one, I think it might have just been other where you know, the drivers could fill in a place that that means a lot to them. And yeah, we did this every weekday in in August, we had quite a lot of stuff that we gave away and ice Yeti mug, Wellington, hoodies, hats, stickers, air fresheners, all that sort of stuff and relevant gift cards, where
(07:01):
again, instead of having a barbecue that no one can attend, here's a gift card for Tim Hortons or for subwayor you know, somewhere that you can grab lunch when it's convenient for you.
Tanya Hewitt (07:11):
So it's very focused on the recipient, as opposed to what is convenient for you to be able to do.
Mike Zelek (07:19):
Yeah, that's right. I mean, our recruitment team retention team and marketing team put in a lot of hours just to make sure you know, we do have the right sizes for people. We've got a nice welcome bag filled with all their stuff. And again, throughout the month, there is extra promotion. So if someone won our photography contest, they're going to have an extra gift card in their bag, and they're all properly labeled. And in a perfect world, we all give them out in person. I know Jessica from our team was known at some of our offices in Strathroy in Ingersoll to see the drivers that are based out that way. And I know it is really nice, especially with everything that's gone on the last two and a half years that to have more of a human connection. And words are nice, but it's nice to see the facial expression to recognize that the appreciation
(08:07):
is sincere, it's not something that you really want to fake.
Tanya Hewitt (08:11):
Excellent. Can you walk me through how you hire people? Yeah,
Mike Zelek (08:19):
I mean, one thing, the first thing that I do is I really try and understand the run that we're hiring for. I've noticed, you know, in my career, there's been several instances where I pass on all the information that I know about a run. But it turns out, it's not as accurate as it could be. And then you know, the driver feels like they've been misled. And it just gets them started on the wrong foot. So the first part is to talk to the planner, talk to someone that's already doing that run and make sure what you believe to be true is true, whether it's, you know, time away from home or shift time, start evening, the equipment you drive, it's just, it's good to know it inside out, like any good recruiter has to be honest and truthful. But if you're being given the wrong information, sometimes it makes you look bad, and it's very tough to recover
(09:09):
from that. So step one is to understand their run, then we do a very detailed job posting where, again, Inoticed in the past and with recruiting friends that I have, you know, they might just post a position as a truck driver. And to me that's comparable to just hiring an office staff member, you know, not narrowing it down to accounting or customer service or dispatch, simply staff member and you know, you're gonna get 100 applicants but go for something specific. That's not really good. So for drivers when we get real specific, maybe only have 10 or 12 people that apply. But those 10 or 12 people for the most part are going to be very interested in the role because they understand it. It works with their schedule or their salary expectations or whatever it may be. I got a friend Scott who refers is refers to it as Fishing with a spear instead of a
(10:01):
net. And you know, you get exactly what you're looking for versus going through 100 applicants and trustshuffled through all the riffraff that comes in.
Tanya Hewitt (10:10):
I remember at one point, I heard you talking about the the run that you were talking about before. So that's this specific route that the driver drives, I guess, to deliver the load that needs to be delivered. And I remember you talking about actually accompanying a driver on a route, would you be able to describe why you did that?
Mike Zelek (10:35):
Yeah, we do that fairly often, where depending on the run, sometimes it'll just be one of our new drivers going out with one of our existing drivers, even though they're both experienced, it's just nice to see how you do it as a different company. But we've got one customer in particular, where it's not simply driving a truck 5-600 miles a day, it's doing 10 different stops in small towns in northern Ontario, and a little bit of Driver Assist involved. So I like to go out on the road of these drivers for the first trip just so that they, they have some support can I've never driven commercially in my life, but I've been on probably 10 of these trips by now. And it's nice to have someone there to help you. And even just having a helper in the front seat where I can help navigate or I can call the stores ahead. When you get to these places, it's
(11:22):
nice to have someone track down the person in the forklift who's gonna offload you, someone else to help withthe paperwork, it's, I mean, it's almost like you're holding their hand for the first run or two just to make sure that they know what they're in for, and that they're comfortable with it, it doesn't matter how experienced you are, you're gonna have 20 years of driving experience. But when you're going to all these customers, for the first time, you're in the same boat as someone that might be new to the industry. So I find it very helpful to be in the truck with the driver. And the beauty of it is even when you're not at a delivery, and you're just driving an hour between stops, you have a chance to get to know the driver a little bit better, you can ask him about their family, you can just ask about what are you talking about sports or
(11:59):
life or future past career sorry, you really develop a bond with the driver and kind of develop a trust aswell, where now they feel comfortable coming to you with any issues instead of complaining about their problems to another recruiter they come directly to me. And we can fix the problem or talk about it or in the event that it's not a fit. You've noticed that a little bit earlier on then if someone tries to just stick with it, for the sake of sticking with it like you still there are long term fit.
Tanya Hewitt (12:26):
That's incredible. Again, I would just like to remind our listeners, we're talking to the head of HR here, who says that he helps drivers with paperwork en route. That's incredible. You've touched a little bit of it there. But I'd like to go into what a good day looks like in your world. And what a not so good day looks like in your world and and how you deal with both of these extremes?
Mike Zelek (12:52):
Yeah, I mean, I'd say a good day is when my my phone isn't ringing too much. Because often times, when it rings, it means someone needs help with something or they're having an issue. I mean, the beauty of transportation is that every day is different. And that's kind of what attracted me to the industry in the first place. But to be more direct to your question, a good day is when I get good feedback from our drivers when everything goes according to plan, which isn't often the case in transportation, but you know, as long as it doesn't get too off kilter. And I'll spend probably two hours of my day talking or emailing or texting with our drivers, whether it's just about the run, or they have a question about their benefits, or time off, or whatever it may be. And then you know, a good portion of my day is spent recruiting drivers. And a good day is
(13:41):
when I do find those good people again, fishing with a spear where, you know, I talked to the driver, and theysay, Yeah, this is exactly what I'm looking for. And the very, what's the good word for that the drivers that are serious about a position, they ask the right questions, they're always ready with their paperwork. And that just leads to an easier hiring process. And I'm pretty fortunate where I have a lot of good days, there's really not too many bad ones in recent memory. Like I think it's normal to have a bad day of every month or so. And honestly, I'm at that frequency. It's right, once a quarter where you're like, oh, you know, this is a tough day but makes you think more but the good ones. So tough days or when the unexpected happens or, you know, you send a driver to pick up a trailer and they they drive two hours across town and then they find out
(14:30):
it's still loaded. You just go "Crap, like that's not good." The driver's upset the dispatcher is usually nothappy and somewhere along the line there's a miscommunication or something went wrong where we just ended up wasting a couple hours of someone's time. There's some, I try to tell this to our drivers, our office staff, where there's just so many unknowns in transportation every once in a while something's going to screw up whether it's bad weather, traffic, construction, it can be the most important shipment in the world and you can do everything right and still be late for it, if you know you if the 401 becomes a parking lot, so those days can get a little frustrating. But the end of the day, it's kind of expected it just how you deal with it and how you communicate it with the driver and the rest of the staff.
Tanya Hewitt (15:17):
And how do you communicate, when those unknown factors impact your work?
Mike Zelek (15:24):
Yeah, we just try and share as much information that we can with the driver, like a good example is when there's delay getting an entry number to cross the border. Sometimes if the drivers just waiting at the border, they have nothing to do but sit there and wait and worry. So every 45 minutes, every hour, and it's nice to check in to say, "Hey, we're working on it, We called them, this is what they said." Try and give them a bit of a timeline so that if they do want to lie down and have a sleep for an hour or two, they have that freedom. If it seems like it's going to be a major issue, we can kind of prepare them for that which, you know, doesn't make them happy, but at least what there's a expect for that. And it's got to be all truthful. And if you try and pull a fast one on a driver and withhold the truth, or purposely misrepresent
(16:08):
yourself, it's just going to make the situation worse. So yeah, you gotta be an open book with them. And,again, sometimes they'll, they'll be upset, as anyone is when you're kind of wasting time somewhere. But if you present them with all the information and treat them with respect that's making the best out of a bad situation.
Tanya Hewitt (16:28):
You had talk about feedback being part of your day, what does that look like? And how do you make sure that you nurture that whole feedback loop I guess?
Mike Zelek (16:39):
Yeah, in my opinion, the feedback from the drivers is some of the best feedback you'll ever get. Because they're the ones that are out on the road, you know, moving around 80,000 pounds worth of equipment, and all sorts of weather conditions, all sorts of traffic conditions. So a driver calls in and says, "The Road, roads aren't very good right now in Chicago", you know, who am I from my comfortable desk to say, "No, I'm sure they're fine, keep driving", you know, you got to take the drivers word for it. They're the pros out there, they want to get to their deliveries or their pickups, but they've got to be safe and trust their instinct and trust what we teach them in, you know, winter driver training or orientation starts gonna last for as long as that what was the question again, there? Well,
Tanya Hewitt (17:20):
I just wanted to know how you nurtured this feedback, because there's a huge message out there that a lot of people are too afraid to raise issues. And there's, you know, there are a plethora of companies trying to help organizations with the fear and with the lack of psychological safety and all of this stuff. But you just kind of talked about it as a natural thing. So I'd like to know how you cultivated this.
Mike Zelek (17:50):
Yeah, I think one thing that we do very well is we create an environment where drivers feel comfortable giving feedback, oftentimes, it's just in a very casual setting where I'll get a text and say, you know, "Hey, Mike, what do you think about this?" Or "Can you run this by our equipment person?", just, you know, whether it's about a, an engine, or a different type of tire, whatever it may be, the drivers feel like they can come to me or Jessica, or someone else at the company and actions will be taken to try and correct whatever they're complaining about, or will listen to their suggestions. And it's not a 100% success rate, where if a driver wants something, they get it, sometimes you just have to explain to them why it is that way. And you know, they can adapt to it, or maybe try a different run if they don't like it. But the fact that they
(18:36):
come to us with this feedback, and we at least prove to them that we looked into it makes them feel morevalued and part of the team and they're probably the most valuable part of the team. So it's it's good that they feel like that.
Tanya Hewitt (18:48):
I think that's just wonderful. And a lot of companies even in trucking, I think have this distinction between you know, no, this is work and keep your personal out of this. What do you think of that kind of approach?
Mike Zelek (19:04):
These days, I feel like work and personal life has has become blended. And I view that as a good thing. I mean, you could go either way on that. But you know, I love that we had a driver here on Thursday and they're going on to the Blue Jays game I got to meet his kids that I've heard lots about and you know, at different events that we have I meet the drivers' partners, and it's I think it's awesome where I'm on a first name basis with most of them at least the ones that I've met before. Part of our driver appreciation we actually had a suggestion from one of the drivers' wives where she wanted a Wellington hat and like, you know what, we should make one part of driver appreciation day all about their family where, you know, we'll give our drivers an option to choose a gift for a family member whether it's, you know, a hat for their partner a
(19:53):
shirt for one of their kids or a little onesie for a baby, they get on the way and that was that wasoverwhelming positivity from the the Ownership group at Wellington here, because the families are a big part of a truckers' lives, obviously personally, but on the professional side as well where long days away from home, sometimes your out in a truck for two, three, anywhere up to 10 nights, you really have to respect the person, while you have to respect their personal life. And, you know, we have some drivers who don't want there to be much of a blind and that's okay as well where you know, they just come in, they put in, you know, an honest day or honest week's work and go home, they can shut off their phone and not really worry about trucks or transportation, where there's others that you know, want to stay involved. And those are usually the
(20:37):
ones that are at more company events. And, you know, volunteering at the Santa Claus parade, stuff like that.
Tanya Hewitt (20:43):
It sounds almost too good to be true, but I know that there's likely some vestiges of Us/Them type cultures, in even healthy organizations. Could you describe, like a classic one in the trucking industry is dispatchers and drivers. And another one, well, I mean, you're you're head of HR would be the the C suite of all of the heads of different parts of companies. Would you be able to describe a little bit of the the Us/Them culture that you have?
Mike Zelek (21:18):
Yeah, there's definitely an Us versus Them culture throughout the industry. And Wellington's not any different than that where lots of drivers and they have a longer day, then it's because they're their dispatchers out to get them or they're punishing them for something. And, you know, the divide here I don't think is very vast at all, especially compared to some other companies that I'm aware of. But it still does exist. And, you know, we we've kind of, well, we don't really tolerate the, you know, "just the driver" syndrome that a lot of people have when they're, they're working in the office. You know, we respect our drivers, we respect their time and respect their opinions. So that helps limit the divide. But it's probably always going to exist where the people that are out on the road with their agent license in all sorts of
(22:07):
conditions, feeling the office just aren't going to completely get that and as driver centric as I like tothink I am, I don't truly get it. I've never driven a truck in my life, I can be a passenger a million times, I'm still not going to know what it's like to be in control of 80,000 pounds going down the highway at 105 kilometers per hour. So the main thing with the with the Us/Them divide is, it's not the worst thing in the world, you just have to recognize it and put trust that the driver has to trust that their dispatcher has got their best interests in mind and, and vice versa. And, you know, a dispatcher's got the delicate job of trying to balance the customer's needs and expectations versus the drivers. And in most instances, and I don't think it's a bad thing, the dispatcher is going to have the customer's needs first followed quickly by the driver,
(23:00):
where someone more in my role, or anyone in a recruiting retention role, you're more worried about the driver,probably than the customer, at least in the short term, when it comes to little issues, like a driver has been sitting at a location for a long time, your main focus is on the driver, not so much what the customer is gonna have to pay for waiting time or why the waiting is there. You just want to get that driver out of there back on the road as quick as possible.
Tanya Hewitt (23:28):
Does it happen that either while senior executives might be difficult, but you know, dispatchers or drivers do need to undergo some type of discipline?
Unknown (23:39):
Sorry, can you say it again, please?
Tanya Hewitt (23:42):
I was just wondering, do dispatchers or drivers maybe even senior executives, do any of them need to be pulled aside in order to go through some of the behaviors that they've expressed and be told that maybe there's a different way to approach this, or any kind of discipline that has to take place?
Mike Zelek (24:06):
Whether it's discipline or just supplemental training? Like I'd say training and coaching would for the most part be the better option. I mean, there's some drivers where you have to some drivers and some office staff were able to say, you know, like that's not an acceptable way to, to talk to someone or to communicate with someone and, you know, if it's an ongoing thing, then it needs to be addressed with some sort of disciplinary action. A lot of the time, like people just communicate in in different ways where I read a story somewhere where, you know, nine out of 10 reviews for company were fantastic 10 out of 10 because they love that, you know, when they went from Ontario to California, they never heard from their dispatcher, where the 10th person's like, Oh, I hate it because I never hear from my dispatcher. So then you're just like,
(24:53):
playing to each person's preference and you know, one driver carry just wants to drive and don't bother andthey'll be on time and that's great, where you might have another driver where you have to hold their hand for a little bit. And, you know, I've got a few drivers on the fleet, where sometimes they just like to call to chat, it's like, cool, if I've got time to spare and, Just this one particular driver, I've kind of just set it up so when I'm driving to or from work, that'll be my time to get to idly chit chat. And then when I'm in the office, it's just more, "Call me if it's something important", but you know, not just shooting the breeze.
Tanya Hewitt (25:27):
So I just wanted to, to offer that I heard on a on a different podcast, the dangers of trusting surveys, this one survey had said that everybody was was fine after this intervention. So of course, senior management thought the intervention worked. But all of the people who answered the survey, when they were asked why they rated it so high, as opposed to previously, said "We just don't want to have those monthly talks anymore". So if scoring this survey high is going to stop those monthly talks, then we're, we'll score it high. So yeah, it's not necessarily that the the survey is revealing what you think it is. You had, you have an approach that I think might be outside the norm of a whole lot of people in your position. I'm wondering how dealing with your colleagues at, you know, an executive table, how that how that dynamic plays
(26:28):
out.
Mike Zelek (26:30):
We're very fortunate where the leaders of our company are, are also very driver centric, and like to support a lot of the issues that initiatives that our recruiting and retention department comes up with. I mean, it's not always perfectly in sync, where they're more concerned about the financials and how the operation is running. But unless your executives at your company are on board with treating the drivers well, paying them well, and listening to them, the message is gonna get lost along the way, by the time it gets to dispatch it, you really need everyone to buy in. But that's anywhere from you know, the highest person up at the company, to anywhere, anywhere else within it, you can't have any weak links. As soon as you have one person that's treating them as "just a driver". It gets infectious. It'll it'll spread amongst other people,
(27:20):
it'll, other drivers in the fleet will pick up on it. And it doesn't take long for you to be considered a bossto go from being a driver friendly company to just, you know, an average company and unfortunately, the average companies out there are the ones that struggle with driver recruiting and retention and, you know, their their reputation is a reflection of that.
Tanya Hewitt (27:41):
Yeah, absolutely. I'm just wondering, on that cool retention thing, how do people how does your company treat people leaving your company?
Mike Zelek (27:52):
Oh, I mean, it doesn't happen too often, like our driver retention rate, since we started for voluntary resignations has always been in the 90s pretty much always been in the in the high 90s where I think right now it's about 97% retention, When we do lose a driver, we do an exit interview, to see why they're leaving where they're going. To be honest, I can't remember the last time we had someone leave. At least leave unexpectedly, there is one generic thing of that, that left in the last six months but other than that, it's not a regular practice, like we are prepared for it. We have had a couple of drivers that have left and then come back. But really there's not a whole lot of experience that we have with it. We've been very fortunate in that regard.
Tanya Hewitt (28:41):
So Mike, we've talked a lot about you know, how you interact directly with the drivers, how you appreciate them, how you know who they are outside of just their role as a driver, including the dispatchers as well. Is there anything else that you'd like to share to help understand why the culture is so healthy where you work?
Mike Zelek (29:04):
I think it's a mutual respect it sounds so simple and I almost feel silly saying it where it's just common sense like treat someone how you want to be treated, you know, our our drivers they realize it's a give and take where they're going to have some shorter days, some longer days, you know, there's going to be a couple days a year where everything goes wrong and that's, that's okay. Like that's, that's part of the industry or like the secret to a strong fleet with with good retention numbers is you need to value the drivers' time you have to respect the drivers' time. And a lot of people don't do that they just don't look at hours of service log and think that driver's got three hours of work to still do and they'll they'll work them for that three hours. Even if that driver's got plans after work, where respecting the home life balance.
(29:53):
Surely these drivers they drive because they love doing it but doesn't mean they want to do it every hour ofevery day they work so they can go home to their families and spend some time with their their feet up. So valuing their time is big, respecting their opinion is is big where, again, drivers are out there everyday on the roads. They're the ones that are going to different shippers and receivers. So they'll have the best feedback on those places than anyone else. And it's got to be a fair and consistent wage, I see it, almost every company out there, when people are getting paid by the mile, or in some instances, by the hour, the onus is on the driver to make money even though they're not in control of how many miles they can get, or how many hours they can work. I think that's that's got to change. In most instances, if, if you're trying to have a
(30:43):
successful fleet, it's got to be a consistent pay. And, you know, if your company doesn't have work for adriver, that's not the driver's fault. That's the company's fault. So why is the driver getting punished for that?
Tanya Hewitt (30:54):
That's wonderful, Mike. So just to wrap up, is there anything else I haven't asked you but should have? And is there any way that people could contact you if they wanted to learn more about how you work in this really healthy environment?
Mike Zelek (31:12):
Yeah, I'd love for anyone that wants to chat transportation to reach out to me either via email, or I'm pretty active on LinkedIn as well. And the only topic that we we didn't touch on a whole lot is driver rate sheets, where, you know, I think companies really need to simplify it, it's, you know, a high per mile or per hour rate looks good on paper. But at the end of the year, all you care about is your T4 and how much you make there. So my advice for companies is find out what drivers are earning per year and have that your basis, because whether you're making 45 cents or 65 cents per mile, it's a loaded question where if you're only doing 300 miles or 600 miles or whatever the parameters are, the money that someone makes at the end of the year is the most important number.
Tanya Hewitt (32:04):
Sounds wonderful. All right. Well, thank you so very much, Mike. And, and I can't thank you enough for sharing a lot of what you have with us to have people realize it's not as though you know, workplace misery has to be endured.
Mike Zelek (32:23):
No, you got to communicate with, well, in any position that you're in, if you communicate with your your co workers, what, what you like what you dislike, they can either work on changing it, or you can work on making a change in your own life and open to a communications the way that those conversations.
Tanya Hewitt (32:42):
Fantastic. Thank you so much.
Mike Zelek (32:45):
My pleasure. Take care.
Tanya Hewitt (32:47):
So what'd you think? I thought that was just amazing. There were so many fantastic tidbits he shared with us, everything from meeting new recruits to their very meaningful driver appreciation program. That does take some effort, but the payoff is so appreciated, to the way that they are super specific in the way that they write up their job advertisements. having time to spend with frontline workers, where trust can be established, having a lot more good days than bad ones, is the result from this, just the natural feedback that they've been able to cultivate everything, including how humble he is. He said a number of times that, you know, I'm not a driver. And I can't imagine what it is to be a driver even though he's way closer to that industry than a whole lot of us are. But he's aware of the difficulties in the role that he doesn't possess
(34:00):
the knowledge of firsthand. Their customization and listening and emphasis on communication. Just incredible.And he talked a bit about compensation there. As you heard during the interview, he works for Wellington Motor Freight, and I was at a conference where that amongst a few, few companies were shouted out by one of the keynote speakers as being one of the fairer compensation modeled companies. So instead of as you had heard Mike talk about focusing on rate per kilometer, or how many kilometers driven or all this kind of thing, there is just an appreciation of the driver and the frustrations that the driver might have. And compensating them fairly not punishing them for being in a traffic jam. Or if the weather starts to turn inclement. That's not something that the driver has control over. And this company doesn't punish the drivers for things that are
(35:15):
outside of their control. And that's just amazing. So, I really hope you enjoyed this presentation. I'm reallythankful to Mike for having shared it with us. And I hope that it gave you some tidbits on how you might be able to change some of the practices in your organizations.
(35:38):
I thank you for listening. I don't know if this is your first episode, or if you are a regular listener,having really appreciated some of this content. I just wanted to tell you that I really do appreciate you for listening. If you would like to express your gratitude for this podcast, I would encourage you to buy me a coffee, head on over to buy me a coffee.com/tanyah that's buy b-u-y me m-e a coffee c-o-f-f-e-e all one word.com/t-a-n-y-a-h tanyah. I will put this in the show notes. And I would really sincerely appreciate your support. In addition to that, you can rate and review this podcast and I really, really appreciate that you are here listening to what I am sending out to you guys. Thanks so much.
Adam Johns (36:50):
Thank you so much for listening to Beyond the Minimum with Tanya Hewitt. We hope this episode aligned with you. Maybe it was diametrically opposed to us, at any rate, we trust it made you think. The more we can think about our workplaces and start talking about them, the more we can collectively make a real difference. If you're living in Canada, please find out the Indigenous territory in which you reside. Begin using it to introduce yourself. Please reach out to Tanya through her email Tanya@beyondsafetycompliance.ca. Connect and chat with her on LinkedIn. Follow her company Beyond Safety Compliance. And remember to ask yourself the question, How does your work look? Because we can always go Beyond the Minimum.
Welcome to Beyond the Minimum, where we'll be exploring the world of work. We'll be chatting about concepts, ideas and phrases, explore practices and delve into what good looks like. Work can be purposeful value lead, and more meaningful to all who interact with the workplace. This podcast is brought to you by Tanya Hewitt who lives in unceded Algonquin, Anishinaabeg territory, otherwise known as Ottawa, Ontario, Canada.
Tanya Hewitt (00:33):
This episode has been a very long time in coming. But I'm so excited to share with you this content because when healthy employers agree to share some of their practices with the community, we can start to learn how incredibly well run companies can be. So today, we're going to be talking with Mike Zelek, who works for a trucking company. That's right, a trucking company. Trucking companies went through highs and lows at the beginning of the pandemic, there were all sorts of "Thank a Trucker" posters and accolades everywhere. However, that was very short lived. And right now we seem to be in a desperate need for trucks and truck drivers in order to be able to move supplies to their destinations. And a lot of companies are out there scrambling for drivers. We're going to listen to Mike Zelek talk about how his company doesn't have such a
(01:45):
problem amongst a whole lot of other practices that they utilize in order to keep their company healthy.
Adam Johns (01:58):
Today's episode is what good looks like.
Tanya Hewitt (02:06):
So thank you so much, Mike, for agreeing to come on to the Beyond the Minimum podcast, this type of episode of what good looks like, because I believe our audience would be able to learn so much from a lot of what you have to share. So Mike, why don't we start off with you introducing yourself and where you work and what role you have.
Mike Zelek (02:32):
Cool. So my name is Mike Zelek, I work for a company called Wellington Group of Companies. We've got several different smaller companies that that make that up. Almost all of them transportation related. And I'm the director of human resources. So I've got a major hand in the recruiting and retention of truck drivers, as well as our office staff and the Human Resources fun that comes along with it. But for the purpose of today, I mean, my main focus is going to be on recruiting and retaining drivers and kind of sharing what, what's worked for us so far.
Tanya Hewitt (03:06):
Wonderful. So, Mike, last week, we set up a call to basically go over this recording, and you were on route to someplace regarding your workplace. So would you mind just walking us through that whole adventure that you had last week?
Mike Zelek (03:26):
Yeah, absolutely. When, when we talked us somewhere along the 401 on the way with a co worker up to Bedford Quebec, where we've got a fleet of somewhere between 25 and 30 drivers. And the point of the trip up there was to meet a lot of the drivers that we haven't had the chance to meet yet to bring them their gifts from driver appreciation month, which is what we did throughout the month of August. And to kind of give ourselves a chance to just to get to know the drivers better where we went over a couple different dinners with them and their partners and visit a few different sites out there. And just a real nice trip where we had the chance to actually shake some hands and share some laughs with a lot of the drivers that we only communicated with the phone calls texts and emails up till then.
Tanya Hewitt (04:11):
That sounds fantastic. So you said that you are the head of HR.
Mike Zelek (04:16):
That's right.
Tanya Hewitt (04:17):
You just placed yourself to go out to the workplace where this set of drivers were whom you hadn't met before?
Mike Zelek (04:26):
Yeah, most of them I hadn't met unless you know the route had brought them out toward Ontario as joined with our recruiting and retention manager a woman named Jessica Mata as well as the head of our marketing department, a woman named Rachel and we had a great time out there. I mean to some people you know, driving six hours on a Friday to spend a weekend in Bedford Quebec with you know, a lot of co workers isn't your ideal weekend but we had a lot of fun and you know, all the drivers were very happy to see us and put a face to the name and vice versa. And, you know, it's something that we plan on doing on on a quarterly basis now that, you know, there's less concern about COVID, and travel restrictions and stuff like that.
Tanya Hewitt (05:11):
Wonderful. You had mentioned that you had a driver appreciation month and that you were giving out awards. Could you walk us through a little bit about that whole concept? Yeah,
Mike Zelek (05:23):
For sure. One thing that I've, I've kind of noticed that I've been working in transportation over 10 years now, and most of that was asset-based companies. When it comes to driver appreciation, you know, there's often a barbecue at noon on a on a Wednesday that most of the drivers are out on the road for and it's more so for the dispatchers, and then, you know, when the drivers get back from their trip, there's a few cold patties left on the on the grill, not an ideal way to, you know, show your appreciation to the to the drivers that are out there and working hard. So we change things around a little bit where for the month of August, every weekday we have a different promotion for our drivers. That's something that's applicable to almost everyone in our fleet where, you know, one day we might do, you know, trucker bingo, where take a picture of
(06:12):
you fueling your truck and let us know if you see a truck that's red, or that's missing a mud flapper,whatever it is, Mother's day, we're giving away gift cards, or we're doing trivia contests. We had one where we gave the drivers a list of four different charities to choose from. And we said let us know where we want or where you want us to donate $20 to. And one of them was truckers against trafficking. One of them was Sick Kids Hospital, one of them was Colorectal Cancer Canada. And I can't remember the fourth one, I think it might have just been other where you know, the drivers could fill in a place that that means a lot to them. And yeah, we did this every weekday in in August, we had quite a lot of stuff that we gave away and ice Yeti mug, Wellington, hoodies, hats, stickers, air fresheners, all that sort of stuff and relevant gift cards, where
(07:01):
again, instead of having a barbecue that no one can attend, here's a gift card for Tim Hortons or for subwayor you know, somewhere that you can grab lunch when it's convenient for you.
Tanya Hewitt (07:11):
So it's very focused on the recipient, as opposed to what is convenient for you to be able to do.
Mike Zelek (07:19):
Yeah, that's right. I mean, our recruitment team retention team and marketing team put in a lot of hours just to make sure you know, we do have the right sizes for people. We've got a nice welcome bag filled with all their stuff. And again, throughout the month, there is extra promotion. So if someone won our photography contest, they're going to have an extra gift card in their bag, and they're all properly labeled. And in a perfect world, we all give them out in person. I know Jessica from our team was known at some of our offices in Strathroy in Ingersoll to see the drivers that are based out that way. And I know it is really nice, especially with everything that's gone on the last two and a half years that to have more of a human connection. And words are nice, but it's nice to see the facial expression to recognize that the appreciation
(08:07):
is sincere, it's not something that you really want to fake.
Tanya Hewitt (08:11):
Excellent. Can you walk me through how you hire people? Yeah,
Mike Zelek (08:19):
I mean, one thing, the first thing that I do is I really try and understand the run that we're hiring for. I've noticed, you know, in my career, there's been several instances where I pass on all the information that I know about a run. But it turns out, it's not as accurate as it could be. And then you know, the driver feels like they've been misled. And it just gets them started on the wrong foot. So the first part is to talk to the planner, talk to someone that's already doing that run and make sure what you believe to be true is true, whether it's, you know, time away from home or shift time, start evening, the equipment you drive, it's just, it's good to know it inside out, like any good recruiter has to be honest and truthful. But if you're being given the wrong information, sometimes it makes you look bad, and it's very tough to recover
(09:09):
from that. So step one is to understand their run, then we do a very detailed job posting where, again, Inoticed in the past and with recruiting friends that I have, you know, they might just post a position as a truck driver. And to me that's comparable to just hiring an office staff member, you know, not narrowing it down to accounting or customer service or dispatch, simply staff member and you know, you're gonna get 100 applicants but go for something specific. That's not really good. So for drivers when we get real specific, maybe only have 10 or 12 people that apply. But those 10 or 12 people for the most part are going to be very interested in the role because they understand it. It works with their schedule or their salary expectations or whatever it may be. I got a friend Scott who refers is refers to it as Fishing with a spear instead of a
(10:01):
net. And you know, you get exactly what you're looking for versus going through 100 applicants and trustshuffled through all the riffraff that comes in.
Tanya Hewitt (10:10):
I remember at one point, I heard you talking about the the run that you were talking about before. So that's this specific route that the driver drives, I guess, to deliver the load that needs to be delivered. And I remember you talking about actually accompanying a driver on a route, would you be able to describe why you did that?
Mike Zelek (10:35):
Yeah, we do that fairly often, where depending on the run, sometimes it'll just be one of our new drivers going out with one of our existing drivers, even though they're both experienced, it's just nice to see how you do it as a different company. But we've got one customer in particular, where it's not simply driving a truck 5-600 miles a day, it's doing 10 different stops in small towns in northern Ontario, and a little bit of Driver Assist involved. So I like to go out on the road of these drivers for the first trip just so that they, they have some support can I've never driven commercially in my life, but I've been on probably 10 of these trips by now. And it's nice to have someone there to help you. And even just having a helper in the front seat where I can help navigate or I can call the stores ahead. When you get to these places, it's
(11:22):
nice to have someone track down the person in the forklift who's gonna offload you, someone else to help withthe paperwork, it's, I mean, it's almost like you're holding their hand for the first run or two just to make sure that they know what they're in for, and that they're comfortable with it, it doesn't matter how experienced you are, you're gonna have 20 years of driving experience. But when you're going to all these customers, for the first time, you're in the same boat as someone that might be new to the industry. So I find it very helpful to be in the truck with the driver. And the beauty of it is even when you're not at a delivery, and you're just driving an hour between stops, you have a chance to get to know the driver a little bit better, you can ask him about their family, you can just ask about what are you talking about sports or
(11:59):
life or future past career sorry, you really develop a bond with the driver and kind of develop a trust aswell, where now they feel comfortable coming to you with any issues instead of complaining about their problems to another recruiter they come directly to me. And we can fix the problem or talk about it or in the event that it's not a fit. You've noticed that a little bit earlier on then if someone tries to just stick with it, for the sake of sticking with it like you still there are long term fit.
Tanya Hewitt (12:26):
That's incredible. Again, I would just like to remind our listeners, we're talking to the head of HR here, who says that he helps drivers with paperwork en route. That's incredible. You've touched a little bit of it there. But I'd like to go into what a good day looks like in your world. And what a not so good day looks like in your world and and how you deal with both of these extremes?
Mike Zelek (12:52):
Yeah, I mean, I'd say a good day is when my my phone isn't ringing too much. Because often times, when it rings, it means someone needs help with something or they're having an issue. I mean, the beauty of transportation is that every day is different. And that's kind of what attracted me to the industry in the first place. But to be more direct to your question, a good day is when I get good feedback from our drivers when everything goes according to plan, which isn't often the case in transportation, but you know, as long as it doesn't get too off kilter. And I'll spend probably two hours of my day talking or emailing or texting with our drivers, whether it's just about the run, or they have a question about their benefits, or time off, or whatever it may be. And then you know, a good portion of my day is spent recruiting drivers. And a good day is
(13:41):
when I do find those good people again, fishing with a spear where, you know, I talked to the driver, and theysay, Yeah, this is exactly what I'm looking for. And the very, what's the good word for that the drivers that are serious about a position, they ask the right questions, they're always ready with their paperwork. And that just leads to an easier hiring process. And I'm pretty fortunate where I have a lot of good days, there's really not too many bad ones in recent memory. Like I think it's normal to have a bad day of every month or so. And honestly, I'm at that frequency. It's right, once a quarter where you're like, oh, you know, this is a tough day but makes you think more but the good ones. So tough days or when the unexpected happens or, you know, you send a driver to pick up a trailer and they they drive two hours across town and then they find out
(14:30):
it's still loaded. You just go "Crap, like that's not good." The driver's upset the dispatcher is usually nothappy and somewhere along the line there's a miscommunication or something went wrong where we just ended up wasting a couple hours of someone's time. There's some, I try to tell this to our drivers, our office staff, where there's just so many unknowns in transportation every once in a while something's going to screw up whether it's bad weather, traffic, construction, it can be the most important shipment in the world and you can do everything right and still be late for it, if you know you if the 401 becomes a parking lot, so those days can get a little frustrating. But the end of the day, it's kind of expected it just how you deal with it and how you communicate it with the driver and the rest of the staff.
Tanya Hewitt (15:17):
And how do you communicate, when those unknown factors impact your work?
Mike Zelek (15:24):
Yeah, we just try and share as much information that we can with the driver, like a good example is when there's delay getting an entry number to cross the border. Sometimes if the drivers just waiting at the border, they have nothing to do but sit there and wait and worry. So every 45 minutes, every hour, and it's nice to check in to say, "Hey, we're working on it, We called them, this is what they said." Try and give them a bit of a timeline so that if they do want to lie down and have a sleep for an hour or two, they have that freedom. If it seems like it's going to be a major issue, we can kind of prepare them for that which, you know, doesn't make them happy, but at least what there's a expect for that. And it's got to be all truthful. And if you try and pull a fast one on a driver and withhold the truth, or purposely misrepresent
(16:08):
yourself, it's just going to make the situation worse. So yeah, you gotta be an open book with them. And,again, sometimes they'll, they'll be upset, as anyone is when you're kind of wasting time somewhere. But if you present them with all the information and treat them with respect that's making the best out of a bad situation.
Tanya Hewitt (16:28):
You had talk about feedback being part of your day, what does that look like? And how do you make sure that you nurture that whole feedback loop I guess?
Mike Zelek (16:39):
Yeah, in my opinion, the feedback from the drivers is some of the best feedback you'll ever get. Because they're the ones that are out on the road, you know, moving around 80,000 pounds worth of equipment, and all sorts of weather conditions, all sorts of traffic conditions. So a driver calls in and says, "The Road, roads aren't very good right now in Chicago", you know, who am I from my comfortable desk to say, "No, I'm sure they're fine, keep driving", you know, you got to take the drivers word for it. They're the pros out there, they want to get to their deliveries or their pickups, but they've got to be safe and trust their instinct and trust what we teach them in, you know, winter driver training or orientation starts gonna last for as long as that what was the question again, there? Well,
Tanya Hewitt (17:20):
I just wanted to know how you nurtured this feedback, because there's a huge message out there that a lot of people are too afraid to raise issues. And there's, you know, there are a plethora of companies trying to help organizations with the fear and with the lack of psychological safety and all of this stuff. But you just kind of talked about it as a natural thing. So I'd like to know how you cultivated this.
Mike Zelek (17:50):
Yeah, I think one thing that we do very well is we create an environment where drivers feel comfortable giving feedback, oftentimes, it's just in a very casual setting where I'll get a text and say, you know, "Hey, Mike, what do you think about this?" Or "Can you run this by our equipment person?", just, you know, whether it's about a, an engine, or a different type of tire, whatever it may be, the drivers feel like they can come to me or Jessica, or someone else at the company and actions will be taken to try and correct whatever they're complaining about, or will listen to their suggestions. And it's not a 100% success rate, where if a driver wants something, they get it, sometimes you just have to explain to them why it is that way. And you know, they can adapt to it, or maybe try a different run if they don't like it. But the fact that they
(18:36):
come to us with this feedback, and we at least prove to them that we looked into it makes them feel morevalued and part of the team and they're probably the most valuable part of the team. So it's it's good that they feel like that.
Tanya Hewitt (18:48):
I think that's just wonderful. And a lot of companies even in trucking, I think have this distinction between you know, no, this is work and keep your personal out of this. What do you think of that kind of approach?
Mike Zelek (19:04):
These days, I feel like work and personal life has has become blended. And I view that as a good thing. I mean, you could go either way on that. But you know, I love that we had a driver here on Thursday and they're going on to the Blue Jays game I got to meet his kids that I've heard lots about and you know, at different events that we have I meet the drivers' partners, and it's I think it's awesome where I'm on a first name basis with most of them at least the ones that I've met before. Part of our driver appreciation we actually had a suggestion from one of the drivers' wives where she wanted a Wellington hat and like, you know what, we should make one part of driver appreciation day all about their family where, you know, we'll give our drivers an option to choose a gift for a family member whether it's, you know, a hat for their partner a
(19:53):
shirt for one of their kids or a little onesie for a baby, they get on the way and that was that wasoverwhelming positivity from the the Ownership group at Wellington here, because the families are a big part of a truckers' lives, obviously personally, but on the professional side as well where long days away from home, sometimes your out in a truck for two, three, anywhere up to 10 nights, you really have to respect the person, while you have to respect their personal life. And, you know, we have some drivers who don't want there to be much of a blind and that's okay as well where you know, they just come in, they put in, you know, an honest day or honest week's work and go home, they can shut off their phone and not really worry about trucks or transportation, where there's others that you know, want to stay involved. And those are usually the
(20:37):
ones that are at more company events. And, you know, volunteering at the Santa Claus parade, stuff like that.
Tanya Hewitt (20:43):
It sounds almost too good to be true, but I know that there's likely some vestiges of Us/Them type cultures, in even healthy organizations. Could you describe, like a classic one in the trucking industry is dispatchers and drivers. And another one, well, I mean, you're you're head of HR would be the the C suite of all of the heads of different parts of companies. Would you be able to describe a little bit of the the Us/Them culture that you have?
Mike Zelek (21:18):
Yeah, there's definitely an Us versus Them culture throughout the industry. And Wellington's not any different than that where lots of drivers and they have a longer day, then it's because they're their dispatchers out to get them or they're punishing them for something. And, you know, the divide here I don't think is very vast at all, especially compared to some other companies that I'm aware of. But it still does exist. And, you know, we we've kind of, well, we don't really tolerate the, you know, "just the driver" syndrome that a lot of people have when they're, they're working in the office. You know, we respect our drivers, we respect their time and respect their opinions. So that helps limit the divide. But it's probably always going to exist where the people that are out on the road with their agent license in all sorts of
(22:07):
conditions, feeling the office just aren't going to completely get that and as driver centric as I like tothink I am, I don't truly get it. I've never driven a truck in my life, I can be a passenger a million times, I'm still not going to know what it's like to be in control of 80,000 pounds going down the highway at 105 kilometers per hour. So the main thing with the with the Us/Them divide is, it's not the worst thing in the world, you just have to recognize it and put trust that the driver has to trust that their dispatcher has got their best interests in mind and, and vice versa. And, you know, a dispatcher's got the delicate job of trying to balance the customer's needs and expectations versus the drivers. And in most instances, and I don't think it's a bad thing, the dispatcher is going to have the customer's needs first followed quickly by the driver,
(23:00):
where someone more in my role, or anyone in a recruiting retention role, you're more worried about the driver,probably than the customer, at least in the short term, when it comes to little issues, like a driver has been sitting at a location for a long time, your main focus is on the driver, not so much what the customer is gonna have to pay for waiting time or why the waiting is there. You just want to get that driver out of there back on the road as quick as possible.
Tanya Hewitt (23:28):
Does it happen that either while senior executives might be difficult, but you know, dispatchers or drivers do need to undergo some type of discipline?
Unknown (23:39):
Sorry, can you say it again, please?
Tanya Hewitt (23:42):
I was just wondering, do dispatchers or drivers maybe even senior executives, do any of them need to be pulled aside in order to go through some of the behaviors that they've expressed and be told that maybe there's a different way to approach this, or any kind of discipline that has to take place?
Mike Zelek (24:06):
Whether it's discipline or just supplemental training? Like I'd say training and coaching would for the most part be the better option. I mean, there's some drivers where you have to some drivers and some office staff were able to say, you know, like that's not an acceptable way to, to talk to someone or to communicate with someone and, you know, if it's an ongoing thing, then it needs to be addressed with some sort of disciplinary action. A lot of the time, like people just communicate in in different ways where I read a story somewhere where, you know, nine out of 10 reviews for company were fantastic 10 out of 10 because they love that, you know, when they went from Ontario to California, they never heard from their dispatcher, where the 10th person's like, Oh, I hate it because I never hear from my dispatcher. So then you're just like,
(24:53):
playing to each person's preference and you know, one driver carry just wants to drive and don't bother andthey'll be on time and that's great, where you might have another driver where you have to hold their hand for a little bit. And, you know, I've got a few drivers on the fleet, where sometimes they just like to call to chat, it's like, cool, if I've got time to spare and, Just this one particular driver, I've kind of just set it up so when I'm driving to or from work, that'll be my time to get to idly chit chat. And then when I'm in the office, it's just more, "Call me if it's something important", but you know, not just shooting the breeze.
Tanya Hewitt (25:27):
So I just wanted to, to offer that I heard on a on a different podcast, the dangers of trusting surveys, this one survey had said that everybody was was fine after this intervention. So of course, senior management thought the intervention worked. But all of the people who answered the survey, when they were asked why they rated it so high, as opposed to previously, said "We just don't want to have those monthly talks anymore". So if scoring this survey high is going to stop those monthly talks, then we're, we'll score it high. So yeah, it's not necessarily that the the survey is revealing what you think it is. You had, you have an approach that I think might be outside the norm of a whole lot of people in your position. I'm wondering how dealing with your colleagues at, you know, an executive table, how that how that dynamic plays
(26:28):
out.
Mike Zelek (26:30):
We're very fortunate where the leaders of our company are, are also very driver centric, and like to support a lot of the issues that initiatives that our recruiting and retention department comes up with. I mean, it's not always perfectly in sync, where they're more concerned about the financials and how the operation is running. But unless your executives at your company are on board with treating the drivers well, paying them well, and listening to them, the message is gonna get lost along the way, by the time it gets to dispatch it, you really need everyone to buy in. But that's anywhere from you know, the highest person up at the company, to anywhere, anywhere else within it, you can't have any weak links. As soon as you have one person that's treating them as "just a driver". It gets infectious. It'll it'll spread amongst other people,
(27:20):
it'll, other drivers in the fleet will pick up on it. And it doesn't take long for you to be considered a bossto go from being a driver friendly company to just, you know, an average company and unfortunately, the average companies out there are the ones that struggle with driver recruiting and retention and, you know, their their reputation is a reflection of that.
Tanya Hewitt (27:41):
Yeah, absolutely. I'm just wondering, on that cool retention thing, how do people how does your company treat people leaving your company?
Mike Zelek (27:52):
Oh, I mean, it doesn't happen too often, like our driver retention rate, since we started for voluntary resignations has always been in the 90s pretty much always been in the in the high 90s where I think right now it's about 97% retention, When we do lose a driver, we do an exit interview, to see why they're leaving where they're going. To be honest, I can't remember the last time we had someone leave. At least leave unexpectedly, there is one generic thing of that, that left in the last six months but other than that, it's not a regular practice, like we are prepared for it. We have had a couple of drivers that have left and then come back. But really there's not a whole lot of experience that we have with it. We've been very fortunate in that regard.
Tanya Hewitt (28:41):
So Mike, we've talked a lot about you know, how you interact directly with the drivers, how you appreciate them, how you know who they are outside of just their role as a driver, including the dispatchers as well. Is there anything else that you'd like to share to help understand why the culture is so healthy where you work?
Mike Zelek (29:04):
I think it's a mutual respect it sounds so simple and I almost feel silly saying it where it's just common sense like treat someone how you want to be treated, you know, our our drivers they realize it's a give and take where they're going to have some shorter days, some longer days, you know, there's going to be a couple days a year where everything goes wrong and that's, that's okay. Like that's, that's part of the industry or like the secret to a strong fleet with with good retention numbers is you need to value the drivers' time you have to respect the drivers' time. And a lot of people don't do that they just don't look at hours of service log and think that driver's got three hours of work to still do and they'll they'll work them for that three hours. Even if that driver's got plans after work, where respecting the home life balance.
(29:53):
Surely these drivers they drive because they love doing it but doesn't mean they want to do it every hour ofevery day they work so they can go home to their families and spend some time with their their feet up. So valuing their time is big, respecting their opinion is is big where, again, drivers are out there everyday on the roads. They're the ones that are going to different shippers and receivers. So they'll have the best feedback on those places than anyone else. And it's got to be a fair and consistent wage, I see it, almost every company out there, when people are getting paid by the mile, or in some instances, by the hour, the onus is on the driver to make money even though they're not in control of how many miles they can get, or how many hours they can work. I think that's that's got to change. In most instances, if, if you're trying to have a
(30:43):
successful fleet, it's got to be a consistent pay. And, you know, if your company doesn't have work for adriver, that's not the driver's fault. That's the company's fault. So why is the driver getting punished for that?
Tanya Hewitt (30:54):
That's wonderful, Mike. So just to wrap up, is there anything else I haven't asked you but should have? And is there any way that people could contact you if they wanted to learn more about how you work in this really healthy environment?
Mike Zelek (31:12):
Yeah, I'd love for anyone that wants to chat transportation to reach out to me either via email, or I'm pretty active on LinkedIn as well. And the only topic that we we didn't touch on a whole lot is driver rate sheets, where, you know, I think companies really need to simplify it, it's, you know, a high per mile or per hour rate looks good on paper. But at the end of the year, all you care about is your T4 and how much you make there. So my advice for companies is find out what drivers are earning per year and have that your basis, because whether you're making 45 cents or 65 cents per mile, it's a loaded question where if you're only doing 300 miles or 600 miles or whatever the parameters are, the money that someone makes at the end of the year is the most important number.
Tanya Hewitt (32:04):
Sounds wonderful. All right. Well, thank you so very much, Mike. And, and I can't thank you enough for sharing a lot of what you have with us to have people realize it's not as though you know, workplace misery has to be endured.
Mike Zelek (32:23):
No, you got to communicate with, well, in any position that you're in, if you communicate with your your co workers, what, what you like what you dislike, they can either work on changing it, or you can work on making a change in your own life and open to a communications the way that those conversations.
Tanya Hewitt (32:42):
Fantastic. Thank you so much.
Mike Zelek (32:45):
My pleasure. Take care.
Tanya Hewitt (32:47):
So what'd you think? I thought that was just amazing. There were so many fantastic tidbits he shared with us, everything from meeting new recruits to their very meaningful driver appreciation program. That does take some effort, but the payoff is so appreciated, to the way that they are super specific in the way that they write up their job advertisements. having time to spend with frontline workers, where trust can be established, having a lot more good days than bad ones, is the result from this, just the natural feedback that they've been able to cultivate everything, including how humble he is. He said a number of times that, you know, I'm not a driver. And I can't imagine what it is to be a driver even though he's way closer to that industry than a whole lot of us are. But he's aware of the difficulties in the role that he doesn't possess
(34:00):
the knowledge of firsthand. Their customization and listening and emphasis on communication. Just incredible.And he talked a bit about compensation there. As you heard during the interview, he works for Wellington Motor Freight, and I was at a conference where that amongst a few, few companies were shouted out by one of the keynote speakers as being one of the fairer compensation modeled companies. So instead of as you had heard Mike talk about focusing on rate per kilometer, or how many kilometers driven or all this kind of thing, there is just an appreciation of the driver and the frustrations that the driver might have. And compensating them fairly not punishing them for being in a traffic jam. Or if the weather starts to turn inclement. That's not something that the driver has control over. And this company doesn't punish the drivers for things that are
(35:15):
outside of their control. And that's just amazing. So, I really hope you enjoyed this presentation. I'm reallythankful to Mike for having shared it with us. And I hope that it gave you some tidbits on how you might be able to change some of the practices in your organizations.
(35:38):
I thank you for listening. I don't know if this is your first episode, or if you are a regular listener,having really appreciated some of this content. I just wanted to tell you that I really do appreciate you for listening. If you would like to express your gratitude for this podcast, I would encourage you to buy me a coffee, head on over to buy me a coffee.com/tanyah that's buy b-u-y me m-e a coffee c-o-f-f-e-e all one word.com/t-a-n-y-a-h tanyah. I will put this in the show notes. And I would really sincerely appreciate your support. In addition to that, you can rate and review this podcast and I really, really appreciate that you are here listening to what I am sending out to you guys. Thanks so much.
Adam Johns (36:50):
Thank you so much for listening to Beyond the Minimum with Tanya Hewitt. We hope this episode aligned with you. Maybe it was diametrically opposed to us, at any rate, we trust it made you think. The more we can think about our workplaces and start talking about them, the more we can collectively make a real difference. If you're living in Canada, please find out the Indigenous territory in which you reside. Begin using it to introduce yourself. Please reach out to Tanya through her email Tanya@beyondsafetycompliance.ca. Connect and chat with her on LinkedIn. Follow her company Beyond Safety Compliance. And remember to ask yourself the question, How does your work look? Because we can always go Beyond the Minimum.
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