What good looks like - Interview with Greg Hollander - Beyond the Minimum - Exploring the world of work, and beyond

Episode Transcript
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Adam Johns (00:03):
Welcome to Beyond the Minimum, where we'll be exploring the world of work. We'll be chatting about concepts, ideas and phrases, explore practices and delve into what good looks like. Work can be purposeful value lead, and more meaningful to all who interact with the workplace. This podcast is brought to you by Tanya Hewitt who lives in unceded Algonquin, Anishinaabeg territory, otherwise known as Ottawa, Ontario, Canada.

Tanya Hewitt (00:33):
Hi, everyone. Today's podcast is going to be about what good looks like. And I'm so excited to share this with you. Because this is somebody that I met in my business network. It's called the Phoenix Business Exchange. It's a smaller network in Ottawa. And I loved how he described his workplace. I'm not going to go into the details, because of course, you're going to be hearing this but I just wanted to prime you for how how excellent this interview was. And I'll see you at the other end to share some of the tips and tricks that I absolutely loved hearing about as he was describing his workplace.

Adam Johns (01:21):
Today's episode is what good looks like.

Well, hello, Greg, and thank you so very much for agreeing to be on this episode of what good looks like. So excited for you to be here. And I'd like to start off with you basically introducing yourself what who you work for and the role you have there.

Greg Hollander (01:50):
Absolutely. Hi, Tanya. It's great to be here to thank you for inviting me onto your podcast. I've been very excited to do this. So my name is Greg Hollander and I am a real estate sales representative of a real estate agent. And I work with Keller Williams Integrity Realty brokerage, where a brokerage that is located in Ottawa, Ontario, and I've been doing business for about 15, 14 years just under 15 years.

Excellent. So, can you take us back to about 15 years ago and how you were hired at Keller Williams?

Okay, well, first of all, 15 years ago, I was hired at Coldwell Banker. I've worked at a few different brokerages, Keller Williams being the last one that I started at Coldwell Banker. The reason why I went there was I was new in the business I took on a mentor or mentor took me on as a protege, and he worked at Coldwell Banker. So it just made sense that we work together at the same brokerage. And then after several years, I realized that I was missing something. So I changed brokerages to another one. That one got bought out. Unfortunately, I had planned to stay but it got bought out and I didn't like the direction that the new brokerage was going. And at the same time, as luck had at Keller Williams, this Keller Williams office called Keller Williams Integrity had just been created. And I knew about the leadership and I was very excited about the company and I went to their grand opening and had a chance to talk to them and the rest is history.

So I'm just wondering if you could describe a little bit about how Keller Williams brings new brokers on and how they onboard people and the hiring process as it is.

Sure, sure. You know, I think a lot of the brokerages work in similar fashion. But one thing that I think Keller Williams does differently. Well, first of all the similar ways that they do but is they'll go to trade shows or they'll go to the school and meet new up incoming students who are coming into the industry, introduce them to the brokerage, they'll hold events to entice agents to come over that kind of thing. But what Keller Williams does differently is it incorporates a method of profit sharing, which allows agents to bring in agents from other brokerages or just new agents, when those agents come in and if they name you as the referral, then you get a percentage, a small percentage of their earnings as they grow. And so that is a way to get the agents to be much more involved in the growth of your brokerage real estate. As a business is a numbers game and the more agents you have the more chances of you closing deals and getting business and getting those commissions as a brokerage it

iIs there anything any support that a lot of onboarded agents get when they get hired at Keller Williams,

They actually have a very strong training mechanism in place. It used to be that Keller Williams called themselves a training company that happened to work in real estate. And when I say Keller Williams, I don't mean just our brokerage, I'm talking about Keller, Williams and international. They're actually based in Austin, Texas, there is a guy named Gary Keller, and he started the business. Now, that's where it's all based out of, and that's where it all comes from. But when we get new agents, or even old agents who want a refresher, we have different programs that they can sign up for. And we really push them. And I don't mean that it's pushing them down the throat, but we let them know we're not quiet about it. They're not secret programs. One of them's called Ignite, and that's primarily for new agents. Another is called Bold, which is I mean, just trying to remember business objective our life by design. So basically, it's teaching you the skills and how to run a business, and also succeed in real estate. And that's something that Keller Williams, I think really has a strength in. And that is reminding agents that they're in a business that they're running a business. And I didn't get that

(06:19):
at previous brokerages, they really do understand that. And they really do support you in that. So they have that they alsohave seminars, oh, and they also have a coach on site that people can hire. It's not a free coach. They're still there. And they're available. And they're highly trained. And they're also working agents. So they're not just teachers, they also do business. So they understand it very well from both perspectives. Anyway, those are some very strong examples, I think of the training that happens at Keller Williams.

Fantastic. So once people take advantage of some of this training, and they start working, they might start encountering the real world where things sometimes go well, and sometimes don't go so well. I'm just wondering if you could describe what a good day would look like? And then what a not so good day might look like?

Okay, great, good question I find for myself good days are of course, getting new clients. Having deals close. When I say close, that means finalize or finish successfully. And without major problems, I have a feeling that I had a positive effect on my community and the people around me and of course, my clients a real feeling that I'm making a difference. Now that's my own personal experience. But if I can just generalize, talking about most agents, I think the whole idea of basically being able to run their business successfully. And without any major issues. Those are good days. Bad days are basically the flip side of that. And that's really when things go wrong. And I've had, I've certainly had those days, when you lose a deal, you've gone so far into it, and then all of a sudden, dad, you know, for quite how you feel is for no good reason at all. Or you're going through a deal. That's very difficult. And it involves personalities that involves laws. It involves mistakes, it involves assumptions. When these things happen, then it involves work getting in the way of my family life. And that's also a negative because for me family is first and foremost. And actually I should say it's really

(08:39):
one of the things that stands out at Keller Williams is family really does come first. So if you do have family issues, theydon't make it an issue. They they they don't get in your way. And in fact, they'll give you some help if you need it.

Okay, I like to circle back on something but you just something there that I'd like to get into. There are a lot of workplaces that will instruct their employees. Keep the personal at home. We are going to your we're going to be professional here, keep your home life out of this. How does that... Does that message ring true with Keller Williams?

No, not really. I mean, the whole idea of being professional I think goes without saying but that doesn't mean that you have to neglect your family. Professionalism is is something else entirely. And I agree with being professional. For example, don't bring your family problems to the table when dealing with clients. But when you have problems and you're having things happen at home, you have what I would call priorities because they are priorities to me and to many people that I work with because we have conversations and I know other agents have these issues. And when they do come up with me and I've mentioned them to the leadership, then they'll say take care of your problems at home. That's it First and foremost, I think the the rationale is that we work with people, we work with their families, it would be kind of counter intuitive and somewhat hypocritical if we didn't take care of our own families and take care of our own personal lives. I agree with that. And, and it's one of the things that is important to me when I work, when I'm looking for a job is the culture. And this is the kind of culture that I work in.

Wonderful. So I'd like to just go back to the not so good day. There are a lot of companies that will blame and shame and admonish employees for making mistakes and, and a lot of people then have to wear this through their career at that organization, and their... it's not a happy place for them to be. I'm just wondering, how does the leadership at your company deal with these bad days and mistakes that people make?

That's a really good question as well, I believe that they deal with it very well. Like I said before, about a coaching, it's the same with the leadership, they all basically come from a real estate background, so they understand the business. As a realtor. It's like when you work for a company, and you're in a sales position, and you have someone who works specifically in or doesn't have that sales experience, but they're in charge of you, they will not, in my experience, understand exactly what you're going through and may not empathize properly or appropriately with what you're going through. What's the complete opposite at Keller Williams, the brokerage itself is basically run by Realtors run by its members. So the people that you're answering to, and the people who are responsible for brokerage as a whole, are realtors. So they understand exactly what you're going through, and they understand what needs to be done. There have been cases where I've run into some real serious problems. And I had to turn to the to the boss. She still is an acting realtor. She has been in business for decades. And she owns the company, but she also understands exactly what you're going through. And she made the

(12:26):
problem manageable. You know, it didn't get out of hand. The main thing for me was that I could go to her and not feelthreatened, that I could be open with her and feel like she was on my side. And she was 100%.

I was just seeing some posts on LinkedIn recently talking about psychological safety and how many companies don't have leaders who will be able to deal with problems, the way that you just described.

I think it says a lot about my specific not just about Keller Williams, but also about my specific brokerage might the company that I work with, because the way it works in real estate is that you have an over a large company like Keller Williams, or there are other companies to buy a large company like Keller Williams, and the brokerages work under it. And they're all individually managed. Keller Williams integrity, which is located in Ottawa, is managed by a fantastic team. And that's, I think it's a big bonus to where I am as well.

It leads me to believe that I might predict the answer to this next question. A lot of companies have that most companies actually have an us them gap. There is a management employee relationship that is distance distant because of the hierarchy. That hierarchy can make things very difficult in companies because the rifts between the Us and Them becomes enormous. I'm wondering how that works in your in your situation?

Well, the way you described it, I don't see it as a as a rift. There are potentially I wouldn't call it management more. In talking with people before they asked about silos and division of labor and whatnot. That does exist at our company. I don't think it's a major problem. From my perspective. I can't speak for everyone, but we have administration. And then we have the working realtors who are in the sales team, basically. And they're coming from two different perspectives. And so their agendas or their goals are two different are two different sides of the coin. We have to work a lot with each other though. And so it's a it's a question of being able to understand each other. Now, I think in this brokerage, the leadership does a very good job in making sure that that bridge is maintained and that the chasm is as small as possible. There are frustrating situations when one side is frustrating the other and it goes in both directions. But I think that happens in any kind of organization healthy or not. And then there's also

I can a Okay, so can I just interrupt you there? You're absolutely right. Frustrations happen in every company. The difference between healthy companies and those that are not so healthy is how they're dealt with. Yeah, so I'm wondering if you could just explain to us a situation where there was a frustration and how it was dealt with.

Sure. So one thing is we deal with a lot of contracts, every, every sale of a home has a lot of contracts, and they have to be done properly. There is a lot of oversight involved, not only by our company, but by the provincial regulator, and national regulator, and then the federal government, because there's huge financial transactions involved, okay. So the paperwork needs to be spot on. And so there are times when the agent may not be doing the paperwork properly, or the administration may not be getting the paperwork back, you know, an appropriate way. And so communication is necessary. And if there are any issues, then there's leadership to be able to approach and talk to, and everything has worked out. I mean, these kinds of things happen, I'm sure on a daily basis, and so they have ways of, of dealing with it. But there's no that I see, tension that's within the office, this area, you don't go in that area, because that's where they work. It's not like that we interact a lot. We're friends, we know each other by name, go to social functions together, that social better hold held by the company, and we support each other and we cheer each other, you know, we have moments where we'll get up and

(16:52):
we'll say thank you to someone who works in in one of the other areas, that kind of thing. And they are promoted. So meaningthat at our sales meeting, we the whoever's running the sales meeting, they say, Well remember that, so and so has been running the buying side of management, and doing such a great job. And then they did this specific thing, like they'll, their standout performance will be shared with the rest of the company. So you're not that kind of thing. Those are just some examples.

So it sounds as though people are rewarded for doing a good job. And everybody knows that they're that they're doing a good job, as opposed to being shamed. And everybody knows that they're doing a bad job kind of thing.

Yeah, no one's interested in that. There's drama everywhere. But I you know, I don't see it too much. And in our shop, and usually, when I see any drama, it tends to be the kind of person where the drama follows them around. I don't think people have time for it in our in our organization. And they don't see it as necessary. At least that's that's what I'm saying. We have in our sales meeting. Also, there is a moment where what we call fill a bucket, where anyone has an opportunity to stand up and say thank you to someone else who has helped them out. So that's the kind of culture that we're working in. That's an example that I think supports Well, what I've been trying to say,

I think that is fantastic. There are so many companies that have swear jars. And yet you guys have gratitude jars. And I said,

Yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah. And people aren't aren't afraid to get up and say thank you to Jane, who helped me with a situation or thank you to Bob, who came out of nowhere and bailed me out. That kind of thing.

Fantastic. Yeah. I'd like to talk about when people leave and turnover generally. How was that handled at Keller Williams,

It's funny, because I was thinking about that. It's not something that I've really experienced, personally, my feeling is that if someone wants to go, of course, they're allowed to go. I think that we'd want to keep them but if someone's not happy where they are, then of course, they're supported in their decision, that would be what I would expect and hope for. And then that has happened. The reality is, in real estate, there is a lot of turnover. It's a very hard business to be in and only, you know, a top small percentage of agents out there actually do business. And so if you're not succeeding in a specific brokerage, one of your choices would be to go to another brokerage and see if it works better there. So there is a lot of moving around in the business. So people don't really flinch when it happens.

Okay. Do you think That Keller Williams might have a little bit of an edge in that in this because people appreciate some of the things that you've been describing the support that they get, the way that these meetings are run that.

You know, it's funny, because recently, there have been some new companies that have come up that have borrowed the Keller Williams business model. And a lot of agents who have left have gone to those other companies. So they're kind of they're chasing the same thing. Because they, because it's kind of like sparkly, new and shiny and whatnot. And then often the case is they come back, we have a large number of agents who leave and they'll come back, they'll realize that it wasn't worth it, that they were that they what they had was really good.

Ah, well, then that that is very revealing if the so called Boomerang employees who Yeah,

That's it. So, yeah, I'm pretty happy with the brokerage, how it's run, I do my own thing. But I also am involved in committees and help support the brokerage in any way that I can or in the ways that I can. But

Can you you just mentioned there that you're involved in committees, yes, by the bit of that,

Greg (21:15):
Right now, I'm involved in what's called a culture committee, were tasked with helping maintain positive culture at our brokerage, but also with, and this is been connected with Keller Williams ever since its creation in the state's involvement in philanthropy. And so my background is in fundraising. So I have a pretty close to my heart. And so I thought that would be a good fit for me because I understand it. And it's something I like to do. So I work with a small team and trying to raise funds that we then donate to specific groups that our brokerage supports. And in the last couple of years, actually, there have been some pretty incredible individuals involved who have created, basically, a system in tandem with the Ottawa Community Foundation, that will enable us to create more funds, and actually also make them tax deductible, which is an enticement for agents to be involved. You know, there's nothing better than to make a donation. And then when you're doing your taxes, which it feels good in its own right, but then doing your taxes and finding out how much you're saving on your taxes. Because of that donation. It's kind of a good feeling, I am involved with them. And in the past, I have been involved

(22:39):
with the IT committee, which was, which still exists. And basically they're tasked with educating and maintaining an ITpresence because Keller Williams now has created its own database, or CRM, which is basically customer relation management, and spent billions of dollars in building this as strong relationship with companies like Facebook and Google, what have you. This is down in the States, but we're able to use these tools. And the IT committee has been tasked with helping agents understand how to use these tools, amongst many other tools that are out there. And so most of the people that are involved with that committee are tech heads, which I'm a bit of a tech head, I've got an absolutely Tech Tech head. But anyway, so so that's another example.

So what are the committees? Volunteerism is a very tricky thing is I, myself, am involved in a lot of volunteer committees, but there seems to be just a small fraction of people who want to volunteer, and everybody else just wants to benefit from the volunteering. Is this true in your organization?

It has been true at times. But the thing about Keller Williams is that it really is run by the agents. And these committees are proof of that. So a lot of the things that are decided on and the policies that are built and created and run is by the agents and these committees. So if you really want to make a difference, then you get involved. And people do want to make a difference. And people do get involved. And so for example, we just started a new year in the culture committee, and it's almost an a completely different group of people, which is great. So while except for me, and a few others, but, but it's really nice to see these new faces and that they're excited and they're really pumped up to get involved. And you know, I've seen that in the other committees as well. There's a little bit of that, you know, the same people doing that stuff. But overall, I think we get a lot of the different faces in there just to try it and to make it make a difference.

Well, that sounds outstanding. It might actually really reflect on some of the hiring that we talked about earlier in that you're looking for people who are willing to put in a little bit extra, so that they can reap the benefits of what that yields.

Yeah, yeah, I think actually, that's one of the reasons why they come to us. When we're recruiting. I don't think anyone has been ever been turned away. I think it's happened once or twice in my time, we'll take anyone who's willing to give it a shot for sure in any any brokerage would. But then it's taken upon, it's on us to help them succeed, and help them do the best that they can. So I think that's where the difference is.

Okay, is there any other nugget of the way that you run your company or the way your company is run that we haven't touched upon?

Basically one of the things I guess we have touched upon it, but you know, what makes our brokerage different from other brokerages. And that really is that the other brokerages that I've experienced, and there have been some new ones that have come up since I've been with Keller Williams, so I can't speak to them, or speak about them, but some of them have actually, those other words, I was talking about taking the Keller Williams model and built their own model. The difference that I've seen is that management is at the other brokerages, management is one group, and it doesn't seem to change. Whereas management at our brokerage is definitely one group, but it changes and it the group is typically realtors, realtors who work at the at the brokerage, realtors who are actually selling and buying homes with clients. They're active realtors, and they're also involved in the management of the company. And we do have administration and they're part of management as well. And they're not realtors. But the difference is we have realtors who are involved with the management in the company. And I think that really helps not only in the culture of the company, but also in the direction that we're going. And then that

(27:15):
would be something that I would tell other agents about why working with Keller Williams is so great, because you do have asay in what's happening. And it's up to you to speak up. But at least you have the opportunity, which I didn't see as much at other brokerages that I was on anyway or with ones that I talked to.

Wow, great, you have given us a whole lot of insight into why where you work is so healthy. Is there anything that I should have asked you but didn't?

Well, actually that what I just went through was basically kind of what kind of hit that those that question. Let me just step back a bit. COVID affected us a great deal because we are team based. And even as individual realtors, we work together to run the brokerage. And with COVID, it really took us out of the out of the brokerage, it became a bit of a ghost town. But what's been really exciting to see as people coming back. And now that that has become I won't say a non issue because people are still getting it, but become becoming much less of an issue. And it's really exciting. And you can really see it not only in the at the brokerage, but also in the committees that I was talking about the new faces coming in, and the new people that are getting involved and getting excited about their own brokerage. That to me is really exciting. And that to me shows the strength in our model and our business model and the strength in our culture. Excellent. Actually, it's funny too sorry. I've even received phone calls. I didn't mention this before, but I even received phone calls, especially during COVID from individuals at the brokerage who were part of the leadership, just checking in with me to make

(29:06):
sure that everything was fine. Now whether I was making sales and I didn't have anything to do with that didn't have to dowith the numbers I had to do with my life and me and mentally and which I thought was really, really significant.

It is, it is and it's fantastic to hear and thank you so much for sharing that.

Unknown (29:25):
Yeah, you're welcome.

So Greg, if people wanted to contact you, how would they do so?

Well, they can contact me by phone. I love talking on the phone. My number is 613-795-3871 or if they want to shoot and that can be text too as well. Or if they want to shoot me an email then it's Greg G R E. G at Greg hollander.com. Greg Hollander is again G R E G and then H O L L A N D E R just kind of like the country Holland with ER at the end. And I'll be sure to get back to you as quickly as possible. You know, as a realtor, it's live and die by the phone.

And I understand that you have a few items that you might want to share as well.

Yeah, well, as a as an agent, one of the things that I decided to do years back was to specialize. I work with people from all walks of life. But my specialty as an agent is, I work with people who are downsizing. So I'm a senior specialist. I work with seniors or empty nesters. And so I put together a couple of packages that I can share with anyone either through a link that I could send to them. And one is basically five pro tips on downsizing. That's actually a popular item I've been at trade shows where I've been presenting, and people just scoop it up, they love it. In fact, I've seen people read it in front of me and going home and seed see that's there. See that's in here. Another is talking about what I call the next stage method, which is a system that I use to help people to downsize. And it's something that I've built up over the years and kind of honed, and is basically a guide that discusses the next stage method. And I can share that with anyone who's interested.

Fantastic. Well, thank you so much, Greg.

Thank you, Tanya, I really appreciate you letting me talk about Keller Williams, I'm a big fan. As you can tell, you know, I can't go on enough about them. And also giving me a chance to let people know a little bit about me too.

Fantastic. So what did you think? I absolutely loved how Greg described how welcoming this environment is to one another, how they support one another how agents are even incentivized to be able to bring on new agents and help them in their career progression. How there are committees that really emphasize the oneness of their organization, when their meetings, they can actually call out wonderful behavior that they see from one another, the support that they give one another. And I really am appreciative that he gave that little snippet at the end of the beginning of the COVID epidemic, whereby the lockdown had been such a surprise to all of us, the leadership at Keller Williams had phoned the agents, just to see how they were doing. Not to see, where's this deal right now? How much money are you making? Are you reaching out for new clients, this kind of thing, just a phone call to know how they were doing in their personal lives, and to see if they needed any extra support. I remember, during the pandemic, I was in a network run by Pat Lencioni, who is one of my heroes out there who is helping workplaces become healthier. Who had said that Southwest Airlines did exactly the same thing with their

(33:11):
leadership team, the CEO of Southwest Airlines would spend up to four hours on a video call with one of his executives, justto give support to them, not to berate them for not getting work done, or to remind them of the importance of hitting the numbers or anything like that. But just to be able to listen to the struggles that people were having, which were immense at the beginning of the pandemic that a CEO would do something like that is I think showing the immense support that can be given in companies, even in smaller companies like what we just heard in this podcast he just listened to. So thanks a lot and I hope you took some takeaways from this that you too might be able to share with some of your colleagues.

(34:06):
I thank you for listening. I don't know if this is your first episode, or if you are a regular listener, having reallyappreciated some of this content. I just wanted to tell you that I really do appreciate you for listening. If you would like to express your gratitude for this podcast, I would encourage you to buy me a coffee, head on over to buy me a coffee.com/tanyah that's buy b-u-y me m-e a coffee c-o-f-f-e-e all one word.com/t-a-n-y-a-h tanyah. I will put this in the show notes. And I would really sincerely appreciate your support. In addition to that, you can rate and review this podcast and I really, really appreciate that you are here listening to what I am sending out to you guys. Thanks so much.

Adam Johns (35:18):
Thank you so much for listening to Beyond the Minimum with Tanya Hewitt. We hope this episode aligned with you. Maybe it was diametrically opposed to us, at any rate, we trust it made you think. The more we can think about our workplaces and start talking about them, the more we can collectively make a real difference. If you're living in Canada, please find out the Indigenous territory in which you reside. Begin using it to introduce yourself. Please reach out to Tanya through her email Tanya@beyondsafetycompliance.ca. Connect and chat with her on LinkedIn. Follow her company Beyond Safety Compliance. And remember to ask yourself the question, How does your work look? Because we can always go Beyond the Minimum.

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}What good looks like - Interview with Greg Hollander