February 9, 2024 • 28 mins
In this episode, we delve into a heart-wrenching tale of deception, heartbreak and the incredible power of a mother's intuition. This story captures the events of Luz Cuevas as she faces a heartbreaking tragedy involving her newborn in a chilling 1997 house fire in Philadelphia.
Jump ahead seven years to 2004, where a coincidental encounter at a party unveils a mysterious girl who sparks a sense of familiarity in Luz. Against constricting fear and overwhelming odds, Luz takes a daring step to uncover startling revelations about her long-lost daughter.
Join us for an intriguing 'Crime On Tap' session at the end of this episode, where we voice our theories and predictions, amplifying the discussion ever further. Be prepared to delve into the chilling world of criminal mentality with a beer in hand.
On a personal note, apologies for the delay. We're getting back on track now. We've had some life events happening. Thanks for listening.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Music.
(00:21):
We just got here. How about you? Welcome back, everyone, to another episode of Bruise Clues.
We have our shit together. We didn't just record for five minutes and then decide
to start over because I can't speak. No.
We're back. It's offensive. We're back and ready for an excellent episode.
Lisa has, Leah, Lisa has prepared for us.
(00:46):
And yeah, I hope you're excited because this one's a good one. It's a good one.
Good to see you guys. Everybody looks great. So buckle up. The story is one
of deception, heartbreak, and how important it is to trust your gut.
It was chilly in Philly. Love it.
On December 15th, 1997, Luz Cuevas was at home in her two-story townhouse recuperating
(01:10):
after the birth of her daughter, Delamar, just 10 days earlier.
Delamar was her first daughter, but third child. They were having a get-together
at their house. As dinner wrapped up, Luz brought Delamar up to her crib,
which was in the front upstairs bedroom.
Luz was inside, probably cleaning up from having guests over.
Ten days after birth, no big deal. Where was her husband?
(01:31):
Her husband, Pedro Vera, was outside with his cousin by marriage, Carolyn Correa.
I hope I'm saying that right. If I don't, I'm just saying I freaking...
You're doing the best you can. This is what it is. Helping her put brakes on her car.
Carolyn and Luz had only met one day prior to the party. I've heard that they
met a day before or on that day. Either way, they were just getting to know each other.
(01:53):
So her husband was outside not being helpful. She just gave birth.
She's cleaning up after the party. So that sounds right.
As she waited for her car to be finished, Carolyn shared with Luz that she was
a new mother as well. Surprise, having given birth three days prior.
Just before 7 p.m., Luz heard a boom or explosion of some kind coming from upstairs. stairs.
(02:17):
Smoke started billowing down the stairs. Terror and dread filled Luz as she
raced up the stairs to get Delamar and her worst fears were confirmed when she
saw the smoke was coming from Delamar's room.
Luz managed to get her two sons
out of the house, and Carolyn ran to let Pedro know what was going on.
Confused about this part, I guess because the house isn't fully engulfed in flames.
(02:39):
Maybe he wouldn't know. Plus, his head is in or under a car,
but just get the damn kids and get out. I don't know.
I don't know what this, all this running around.
A lot of confusion at the time. And there's a fire, but nobody knows. I don't know. Yeah.
Anyway, Luz fought through this thick smoke of the hallway into Delamar's room.
Her room was almost fully engulfed in flames
(03:01):
at that point she eventually had to rush back outside without baby
delamar which is just unimaginable like
you're you're 10 day old babies in there and it's fully engulfed in flames and
you can't you physically can't make it to her gutted no i just got it so she
started naturally probably screaming her head off for help neighbors rushed
(03:23):
to her aid and one of the neighbors also ran inside but couldn't get get to Delamar.
He did say he heard a baby crying, which also like twist the knife,
pour salt in it, do everything you got to do.
After putting out the blaze, which took about 15 minutes, firefighters delivered
the devastating news to Luz and Pedro. Delamar had passed away in the fire.
Luz refused to believe this. What mother wants to accept something so awful?
(03:47):
But it was more than that.
They couldn't find Delamar's body because they claimed the fire
burned too hot and she was only 10 days old
filled with a lot of cartilage and not a lot of bone yet
so there was a lot of must have been a lot of fire damage
in the room yes like the room was burned up
it seems like at this point it
started in her room because that's where the smoke was coming from and then
(04:10):
it's fully engulfed in flames clearly the rest of the house isn't it seems like
because nobody else is noticing so i'm just guessing it started in her room
and her Her room's fully engulfed in flames and a baby's crying and, but there's no body.
Yeah. So of course that's, I would immediately. Yep. Nope. My baby's fine.
(04:31):
She must be out there. I don't know.
So she told the firefighters that.
Hang on to back up because I just got myself confused. And I want to repeat
this, that she was only 10 days old. She has a lot of cartilage, not a lot of bone.
And the fire burned too hot. They're just giving some reasons.
(04:51):
She told the firefighters it wasn't possible though. You see,
when she went into Dalmar's room in the beginning to get her out,
sure, smoke was filling the room, but she could plainly see her baby wasn't in the crib.
So she's like yeah
those excuses are great and all but my baby wasn't there when
the fire was happening why was the fire department
making up excuses like that i don't know
(05:12):
i don't know if it was excuses or they just were trying to justify they
said the baby must have been in there okay so they were they they didn't know
they were just hypothesized yes they were just like well clearly this room is
trashed and there was a giant fire and the baby's this small so this This is
what would happen if a baby was caught in the fire.
(05:33):
But if mom says, I didn't see the baby, they weren't taking her word for it. No. Oh, great. No.
Again. Yeah. You're just a hysterical mom. Do you know hysterical came from,
is it Greek or something?
Which means something like empty uterus.
Yeah. That sounds about right. So that's basically, we just need to fill you.
(05:58):
You're just a crazy woman and we just need to fill you and
that's that's why you're crazy i just
heard that on some podcasts yeah maybe it's stuff you should
know or i don't know right but crazy yeah so
here's this woman that's just going through all of the hormones because she's
has a 10 day old baby and which is okay to have hormones oh totally it's not
(06:20):
our fault i mean yeah it's totally fine and i think that is also something people
use as an excuse to excuse away,
emotions that are completely normal.
Right. Yeah. You are, you could have any emotion you want when your baby's 10
days old, when your baby's however old, in a fire.
Oh my God. Yeah. In a fire even. Jesus.
(06:43):
So yeah, just people. Damn people. Leave us alone.
So she told the firefighters it wasn't possible. Baby's not in the crib.
Another odd fact was that the window of the nursery was open.
So keep in mind, this is chilly Philly, December.
So it's not when you open your 10-day-olds window. window
right my daughter was born my first
(07:06):
one in april in michigan still a
little chilly yeah but it's getting nice but even
all through the summer she's a newborn i was dressing her in the sure in the
long sleeves and stuff because one i don't want her in the sun two babies get
cold very easily i feel like i don't know you just bundle them up and they sleep
and they're happy yeah i don't know yeah so that's not normal and this is not
(07:30):
her first child it's not like Like, right.
She has never done this before. Yeah. Her third baby.
So it's like, you know, she knows what she's doing.
She wouldn't just go willy nilly being a different mom with a new baby.
Not her first rodeo. I think it was like she had three kids,
but this was her first daughter.
(07:50):
But also on the other flip side
of that, you start to get more lenient and you're like, oh, 10 days old.
She could probably have a window open. It's fine. But still, that's crazy.
December in Philly, 10 days old. That's not going to happen.
Mom's not going to do that.
So, unfortunately, there was a language barrier since Luz spoke very little English.
(08:12):
She also suffered from smoke inhalation, third-degree burns, and shock.
Firefighters determined the fire started from an overheated wire on a space heater.
We find this a lot. Space heaters, get your shit together. Figure something
out. Talk amongst yourselves. I don't know what you need to do.
They found ashes that looked like human remains, but still weren't sure.
Her nobody believed her they're just like yeah there's ash this pile could be
(08:37):
it could could have been a cat could have been something could have been a squirrel
that ran in the window a dirty diaper it could have been like could have really been anything right,
Nobody believed her, so eventually this drove a wedge in her marriage,
and she and Pedro separated.
Wow. It sounds like she's better off, but that's just... So Pedro didn't believe her.
(08:59):
Pedro didn't believe her. He's... I mean, I just didn't like him in the beginning
because she's 10 days out of giving birth, and he's like, Oh,
you clean up the party. My cousin needs help with this.
Eh, I don't know. I don't like him. I don't like his vibe.
This brings us to another party in 2004. 2004. She saw a girl there that gave
her a feeling she just couldn't shake. She looked so familiar.
(09:21):
And then she smiled. How many years later is this? So this is 1997 when this
whole thing happened. This is 2004.
Seven years. Okay. So little kid. Little kid.
She smiled. She had a dimple on one side of her face, just like one of her sons,
and she looked so much like Luz.
She knew right then and there she was looking at her missing daughter.
(09:44):
She thought fast, called the girl over, and told her she had gum in her hair.
She yanked out about five strands, wrapped them in a napkin, and put them in a Ziploc.
Good thinking, Luz. Applause. You're amazing.
She knew from crime shows this would be sufficient for DNA testing.
And you guys wonder why we watch and listen to this stuff.
(10:06):
It's moments like this. I mean, you don't wonder, but other people wonder about us.
Yeah fine these are the lessons that we learn from
these stories i mean hopefully they teach us something
hopefully we don't have to go through anything like this but on the off chance
that you do this is incredible yes she did here then you know what to do or
(10:26):
it raises awareness for certain things so yeah so lose didn't have money for
an attorney so she went to the pennsylvania state state attorney's office.
Angel Cruz believed her and took on her case. When they tested the hair for
DNA, lo and behold, it was Delamar. Surprise, surprise. Wow.
It was Delamar. So what and how?
(10:51):
Did Delamar end up at a party seven years later?
I would love to tell you, and I hope it's in the rest of the story as I just
quickly scroll ahead. It is. I feel like it is. It has to be.
Luz and Pedro. Otherwise, we're terrible at this job. Otherwise,
I'm going to Google really quick while Mel sings a song and distracts you.
(11:13):
Luz and Pedro were reunited with Delamar at last. When Luz went into the room
to meet with her, she was hiding under a table.
Luz thought, great, she's terrified of me. Then the little girl popped out and
yelled, surprise, while giggling.
Oh, my gosh. Oh, my gosh, cutie. The transition wasn't an easy one,
and in total, it took about four months.
As I said before, Luz didn't speak English, and Delamar was brought up as Aaliyah,
(11:37):
speaking mainly English. Wow.
It began with supervised visits and calling her Aaliyah at first.
Eventually, they were able to start calling her Delamar, as she's known today.
She switched schools and moved in. When asked how she felt about it,
she said, happy, I'm at my real home.
She knew too. She did. That makes my heart hurt. Freaking cute.
(12:01):
It's sad, but also amazing at the same time that they missed all that time together.
It is. That they found their way back together and stories like this don't normally
have a happy ending like this. Exactly. To have one's good.
Carolyn claims she gave birth at home to a little girl she called Aaliyah Hernandez.
Her 17-year-old daughter, who was 11 at the time of the abduction,
(12:22):
had been at her father's that weekend.
Convenient she has the house to herself for her magical home birth.
She's very so she cooked up a nine-month pregnancy and a home birth in three
days it's amazing i mean speaking of amazing stories like here we go again okay she's like a fruit fly,
(12:42):
i'm pretty sure that's their she's like oh hurry up that's the timeline of a
fruit fly pop it out gestation i think it might be i gotta google that while
i look at the rest Someone Google that, but I have a feeling that's an approximate of a fruit fly.
That's accurate. Now her daughter claimed that two days before the fire,
(13:05):
she saw her new sister and the baby did not change her appearance.
But she was 11 at the time, and this is six or so years later she was remembering this.
And of course, it's also her mom, so she wants to not think her mom's crazy, probably.
I mean, I wouldn't say crazy, because here I go again, the hystericalness.
But you know what I mean? Like, there's something mentally wrong if you're faking
(13:28):
pregnancies and abducting babies
is a nicer way to put it. It comes with a sensation, like a feeling.
Yes. When people are not adjusting well to their reality.
Yeah. So I think kids can pick that up.
But you're right. There is a level of like, when you don't want to admit it
(13:48):
or really like, it's like you're You're aware of it, but you don't want to consciously
be aware of it because that puts negativity on your family and then on yourself.
Right. And then you have to deal with something that could be just like,
how is that even possible? How am I? How is this my life?
So you just deny it. I get it.
(14:09):
I'm sure she wanted to believe her mom. It just doesn't add up.
Let's talk about Carolyn for a minute.
She has three children and a long rap sheet. She was fired for stealing business
checks from the medical office she worked for. Guess what she did?
She burned the building down to cover her tracks.
Arson. So she received five years probation for the crime. No one was hurt, thankfully.
(14:33):
Carolyn had a history of faking pregnancies. We're talking four or five.
At one point, she took maternity leave from work, and when she returned,
she showed her co-workers a picture of her stillborn. What?
They were horrified, naturally. No records show any of these pregnancies existed,
though. She was likely faking the pregnancy and planning for this.
(14:54):
Investigators dropped the ball on this. The remains they found were actually
found to be burnt wool, which can look like human remains.
Wow. In order for human remains to turn into what they found,
though, a fire would have to be burning at 1,000 degrees for an hour.
Yeah. They should have concluded the fire reached nowhere near that hot. Or that timeline.
That timeline, either. yes they were they were on the
(15:16):
fire right away was carolyn working
alone carolyn said pedro gave her the baby and
she was convinced that the baby was now hers in 2005
she was sentenced to 9 to 30 years how did
nobody know she was pregnant i i
don't know she she really like still claims that
she was pregnant and all of this was real but
(15:38):
again did pedro really help that's what
it says he was never convicted or found to
have helped but that's her story and she's
sticking to it and i i am guessing
they really are cousins but who knows like third cousin is it first cousin whatever
and delamar marriage not delamar but could have been by marriage yeah it was
(16:02):
in the story oh yeah yeah you said you're listening better than me good job
thank you my job thank you so much.
My job is to listen and drink beer. I'm doing two of those things.
My job is just to talk and say words that sound right. You're doing great.
Thank you. I don't even know if they're what what the words mean, but I'm talking.
(16:23):
Yeah. So she was more of an extended family member. So it makes sense.
She didn't see them for a long period of time.
It makes sense that maybe Luz was just meeting her and she just met her at this party.
It's a new marriage. Yeah. It could be a new marriage. It could just be that.
She'd just given birth 10 days before, so preparing and all of this,
(16:43):
you're not out meeting people, mingling.
So Carolyn is now paroled and living in New Jersey again.
She had a hard time in jail, supposedly banging her head on prison walls,
and was suicidal at one point.
She said, if that isn't my baby, then who has her?
Okay, time for Crime on Tap. Are we ready? Time for Crime on Tap.
(17:03):
We're ready. A lot of thoughts here.
Yep, we sure are. Okay, so Crime on Tap is where we chink. Yep.
And I did not need to do that over.
And we put all facts aside and we just share our thoughts on the case.
And really, it's an opportunity to, you know, I feel like there's so many of
(17:26):
these stories you hear on podcasts and Dateline where no one really shares how they actually feel.
Deal so it's our opportunity to should talk a
little bit hypothesize you know
go off the rails and yeah pushing
up our glass push up our glasses and and allow you guys the listeners to listen
(17:47):
to what we think if you if you want if not you can end the episode here but
don't do it i'll find you but yeah so we crack a bone of beer so what are you
drinking i'm drinking i turn like hey what is is this?
Beach Fly Brewing Company Turtle Tracks. It's a delightful wheat with a little
(18:08):
bit of orange flavor, a little bit of a tropical wheat, if you will.
Nice. Nice. I like it. Yeah.
Here in Rockledge, local. Rockledge, Florida. I'm drinking a Space Kolsch,
light, refreshing beer, 5% alcohol, also from Beach Fly.
Super good because we're on the Space Coast. That's right. Right. Space Kulsh.
(18:30):
Okay. So Pedro, the husband.
So they had a family party and the people left.
Sounds like Caroline. Carolina? Carolyn.
Carolyn was like a residual. Like she left. It was like a leftover from the party.
Maybe she just stayed and was like, hey, can you just take breaks for me?
(18:52):
Because Luz was cleaning up at this point and he was fixing her car out there.
Sounds like maybe they They were there visiting and she was like,
oh, by the way, like, you know, she just had a baby three days ago,
but she had no baby at the party.
Yeah. Which was like head scratcher. She had no car seat in her car.
Yeah. Nobody thought to ask these questions.
(19:12):
These are big things. So Pedro's helping her. Okay. But.
And she claims Pedro put all this together, but then she's confused about where her baby is.
So it's like, you know, in her testimony when she was caught or when she was
like going to jail, she was like, Pedro helped me.
(19:36):
Helped you do what? Where's my baby? And it's like, well, did he help you or
you don't know where your kid is?
Like, what is it? It doesn't make sense.
It doesn't make a lot of sense to me. but i really just feel
like she i thank
god saved like didn't hurt
(19:57):
the the child oh my goodness yeah who knows what
that kid's life was like right i mean i
think it was well she'd already had a kid carolyn yeah
yeah she did the it was 11 years old she had
a daughter yeah like how many kids do you
need i don't know i mean right it's not like it's just
like the baby thing yeah pregnancy she's almost like obsessed
(20:18):
with that yeah attention or something hysterical maybe
yeah i don't know but i agree i
think i i don't know pedro it
seems a little shady like i don't think he gave carolyn
delamar or anything like that i just
i don't know there's just something about his
(20:40):
part in the story that i just don't
like maybe i just don't like him but it's
it is a different culture too where i guess i guess you you know you kind of
were expected to but he seems so removed like he he didn't believe he didn't
(21:00):
believe the story he didn't understand like he He didn't believe her when she was like,
the baby was still in there. He didn't believe.
And it even like brought on their demise.
And it's like, why aren't you just as livid about your 10-day-old? Yeah.
(21:20):
It seems a little sus because it's like, who are you taking this out on?
And I get it. Like, people break up after kids die or piece away.
So, like, there's that. that but like yeah i'm
just really curious about his role in all of this yeah
i would have liked to know more
about how he was reacting to
(21:43):
the news or i mean how how he didn't even try to listen to what lose was saying
like yeah it doesn't seem like they investigated her and you smacked yourself
in the face it doesn't seem like they investigated her claims at any point.
Like the baby wasn't in there. What? They were just like.
(22:04):
You're just, you're just seeing what you want to see. Like, I'm so sorry.
The baby was in there and here's the pile of ash. Clearly, that's what it was.
I just wonder too, like, what was his involvement once they got Delamar back?
I didn't know he could sit back and do this. That's a good idea.
Well, I just, my, I got a flu shot and my body is achy. So I'm like,
(22:27):
this feels so much better.
So I'll do it. That's good. Getting real casual over here. But like,
what was Pedro's, I wonder what his reaction was to like, her realizing that it's Delamar.
Uh-huh. Was he still around? Because I mean, they had other kids together.
So she's probably co-parenting at that point.
They were, they were co-parenting. And I think they went together to be reunited with her.
(22:51):
So they did meet up in the room together with her.
And they did have a relationship from that point on, just co-parenting.
And they probably still did with the three kids they had.
Yeah. But they. He's like, I'm a big asshole. Yeah.
He's like, whoops. Probably didn't say, like, I'm sorry. He probably just said,
like. Probably not. Can you clean up my dinner plate?
(23:11):
Yeah. And that was his, like, I'm sorry. Yeah.
I don't think they got back together at all. No. No.
I would have been flipping tables on everybody.
I would have just, I mean, I would have been so happy to see her that that would
have all come after my feelings get back to normal about it.
(23:33):
Does she have like a civil case against like the fire department?
Probably not because in these cases, like they usually just have so much protection
or just know people that nothing ever seems to come from it.
Yeah. So, yeah, I remember.
I feel like it's like seeing something. They're the ones that,
(23:55):
you know, didn't listen to her claim.
Yeah. Didn't record her story or like, who knows if they recorded it,
but didn't believe her story.
Justified it with some baloney, you know, wool that was burned.
I mean, did they do any testing on that?
Did they you know obviously the the
(24:16):
fire did not burn for an hour no and it
wasn't a thousand degrees for an hour it's no
the fact that they were just like oh
well the reason we don't see her is because she has so much cartilage and she's
10 days old and then there's this and this and oh oh crap there's some ash that's
(24:38):
her there she is sorry about that but here she is yeah and not Not even, I don't know.
It's just all so weird that they were just trying so hard to prove their point
without thinking about other theories.
It's not investigative work. It's just trying to prove you're right at that point. Yeah, exactly.
(25:00):
Which we've seen in other cases. People just get so set that they can't look at anything else.
And that's how, yeah, they don't keep an open mind about what it could have been. Mm-hmm.
Yeah. That's crazy. Wow. That's crazy. What a story. Well, I'm glad it worked
out and Carolyn's still out there.
So, well, I hope you got the help you need. She's not babysitting for anyone.
(25:22):
Hope she's not babysitting.
I hope she's not banging her head anymore. Yeah. That's sad.
She needs help. She does.
It's sad she went to prison and didn't get any like help, like actual help.
Right. They just threw her in there.
Which I feel like she would be a case for psychological help.
Yes. Yes, there should definitely be more of that instead of just throwing everybody
(25:44):
in prison, no matter what. Yeah.
Don't you want better people? Yeah, you can do two things at once,
you know, have therapy and going to prison.
Right. Our whole thing is just punishment, punishment, punishment, not rehabilitation.
Yeah, because I feel like if you're going to let her back out and she hasn't
gotten help and she still thinks her baby's out there somewhere,
(26:06):
then it's like she's going to,
what's the word where they redo the crime again you know yeah so it's like you're you're basically,
punishing her for this act but not preparing her for a life where she won't want to do that again,
so can we who do we write a letter to i'm not sure this is our whole justice
(26:31):
system like how do we fix this yeah oh i feel like flipping tables yeah well
don't flip this one i've got got a half beer on here. Me too.
Oh, I have a full beer, actually. I need to chug, guys. Sorry about that.
All right. Well, that's a great story. I mean, it's a positive story.
I think at the end of the day, I think Lou's is...
(26:54):
You know, she came out on top. She definitely did. She got rid of Pedro.
Yep. She got her daughter back. Yep. Her daughter's happy that she's back. Yep.
It's not like there's, you know, so that's awesome. That's a best case scenario.
Her daughter's like, hell yeah, this is where I'm supposed to be.
This is my mom. She's cool as shit.
Mm-hmm. And, you know, her family will believe her.
(27:19):
Yep. Unfortunately, that had to happen. But, like, now she's got a full life
again. And now when anybody else doubts her, she's like, do you know who I am? She's like, excuse me.
Have you met me? How very dare you? Yeah.
I did some DNA from my kid's hair. Biatch.
Turns out I'm 100%. Yes.
(27:43):
Great story. Lovely. Yes. Thank you.
Thank you for listening. Thank you for telling me back the story when I forgot.
You're doing great. Thank you.
That's all we can do. Thank you for the beer. And maybe this will be kind of
a Thanksgiving story by the time it's out.
I mean, oh, no, it should be out sooner. But season. Tis the season.
(28:04):
It's fall, baby. It is. Yep. All right. Well, thanks for listening, everyone.
And until next time. Dark. Dark in the room.
Wow. I forgot my line. Dark in the room. Dark in the room. Dark in that room. Dark.
Music.
Music.
(00:21):
We just got here. How about you? Welcome back, everyone, to another episode of Bruise Clues.
We have our shit together. We didn't just record for five minutes and then decide
to start over because I can't speak. No.
We're back. It's offensive. We're back and ready for an excellent episode.
Lisa has, Leah, Lisa has prepared for us.
(00:46):
And yeah, I hope you're excited because this one's a good one. It's a good one.
Good to see you guys. Everybody looks great. So buckle up. The story is one
of deception, heartbreak, and how important it is to trust your gut.
It was chilly in Philly. Love it.
On December 15th, 1997, Luz Cuevas was at home in her two-story townhouse recuperating
(01:10):
after the birth of her daughter, Delamar, just 10 days earlier.
Delamar was her first daughter, but third child. They were having a get-together
at their house. As dinner wrapped up, Luz brought Delamar up to her crib,
which was in the front upstairs bedroom.
Luz was inside, probably cleaning up from having guests over.
Ten days after birth, no big deal. Where was her husband?
(01:31):
Her husband, Pedro Vera, was outside with his cousin by marriage, Carolyn Correa.
I hope I'm saying that right. If I don't, I'm just saying I freaking...
You're doing the best you can. This is what it is. Helping her put brakes on her car.
Carolyn and Luz had only met one day prior to the party. I've heard that they
met a day before or on that day. Either way, they were just getting to know each other.
(01:53):
So her husband was outside not being helpful. She just gave birth.
She's cleaning up after the party. So that sounds right.
As she waited for her car to be finished, Carolyn shared with Luz that she was
a new mother as well. Surprise, having given birth three days prior.
Just before 7 p.m., Luz heard a boom or explosion of some kind coming from upstairs. stairs.
(02:17):
Smoke started billowing down the stairs. Terror and dread filled Luz as she
raced up the stairs to get Delamar and her worst fears were confirmed when she
saw the smoke was coming from Delamar's room.
Luz managed to get her two sons
out of the house, and Carolyn ran to let Pedro know what was going on.
Confused about this part, I guess because the house isn't fully engulfed in flames.
(02:39):
Maybe he wouldn't know. Plus, his head is in or under a car,
but just get the damn kids and get out. I don't know.
I don't know what this, all this running around.
A lot of confusion at the time. And there's a fire, but nobody knows. I don't know. Yeah.
Anyway, Luz fought through this thick smoke of the hallway into Delamar's room.
Her room was almost fully engulfed in flames
(03:01):
at that point she eventually had to rush back outside without baby
delamar which is just unimaginable like
you're you're 10 day old babies in there and it's fully engulfed in flames and
you can't you physically can't make it to her gutted no i just got it so she
started naturally probably screaming her head off for help neighbors rushed
(03:23):
to her aid and one of the neighbors also ran inside but couldn't get get to Delamar.
He did say he heard a baby crying, which also like twist the knife,
pour salt in it, do everything you got to do.
After putting out the blaze, which took about 15 minutes, firefighters delivered
the devastating news to Luz and Pedro. Delamar had passed away in the fire.
Luz refused to believe this. What mother wants to accept something so awful?
(03:47):
But it was more than that.
They couldn't find Delamar's body because they claimed the fire
burned too hot and she was only 10 days old
filled with a lot of cartilage and not a lot of bone yet
so there was a lot of must have been a lot of fire damage
in the room yes like the room was burned up
it seems like at this point it
started in her room because that's where the smoke was coming from and then
(04:10):
it's fully engulfed in flames clearly the rest of the house isn't it seems like
because nobody else is noticing so i'm just guessing it started in her room
and her Her room's fully engulfed in flames and a baby's crying and, but there's no body.
Yeah. So of course that's, I would immediately. Yep. Nope. My baby's fine.
(04:31):
She must be out there. I don't know.
So she told the firefighters that.
Hang on to back up because I just got myself confused. And I want to repeat
this, that she was only 10 days old. She has a lot of cartilage, not a lot of bone.
And the fire burned too hot. They're just giving some reasons.
(04:51):
She told the firefighters it wasn't possible though. You see,
when she went into Dalmar's room in the beginning to get her out,
sure, smoke was filling the room, but she could plainly see her baby wasn't in the crib.
So she's like yeah
those excuses are great and all but my baby wasn't there when
the fire was happening why was the fire department
making up excuses like that i don't know
(05:12):
i don't know if it was excuses or they just were trying to justify they
said the baby must have been in there okay so they were they they didn't know
they were just hypothesized yes they were just like well clearly this room is
trashed and there was a giant fire and the baby's this small so this This is
what would happen if a baby was caught in the fire.
(05:33):
But if mom says, I didn't see the baby, they weren't taking her word for it. No. Oh, great. No.
Again. Yeah. You're just a hysterical mom. Do you know hysterical came from,
is it Greek or something?
Which means something like empty uterus.
Yeah. That sounds about right. So that's basically, we just need to fill you.
(05:58):
You're just a crazy woman and we just need to fill you and
that's that's why you're crazy i just
heard that on some podcasts yeah maybe it's stuff you should
know or i don't know right but crazy yeah so
here's this woman that's just going through all of the hormones because she's
has a 10 day old baby and which is okay to have hormones oh totally it's not
(06:20):
our fault i mean yeah it's totally fine and i think that is also something people
use as an excuse to excuse away,
emotions that are completely normal.
Right. Yeah. You are, you could have any emotion you want when your baby's 10
days old, when your baby's however old, in a fire.
Oh my God. Yeah. In a fire even. Jesus.
(06:43):
So yeah, just people. Damn people. Leave us alone.
So she told the firefighters it wasn't possible. Baby's not in the crib.
Another odd fact was that the window of the nursery was open.
So keep in mind, this is chilly Philly, December.
So it's not when you open your 10-day-olds window. window
right my daughter was born my first
(07:06):
one in april in michigan still a
little chilly yeah but it's getting nice but even
all through the summer she's a newborn i was dressing her in the sure in the
long sleeves and stuff because one i don't want her in the sun two babies get
cold very easily i feel like i don't know you just bundle them up and they sleep
and they're happy yeah i don't know yeah so that's not normal and this is not
(07:30):
her first child it's not like Like, right.
She has never done this before. Yeah. Her third baby.
So it's like, you know, she knows what she's doing.
She wouldn't just go willy nilly being a different mom with a new baby.
Not her first rodeo. I think it was like she had three kids,
but this was her first daughter.
(07:50):
But also on the other flip side
of that, you start to get more lenient and you're like, oh, 10 days old.
She could probably have a window open. It's fine. But still, that's crazy.
December in Philly, 10 days old. That's not going to happen.
Mom's not going to do that.
So, unfortunately, there was a language barrier since Luz spoke very little English.
(08:12):
She also suffered from smoke inhalation, third-degree burns, and shock.
Firefighters determined the fire started from an overheated wire on a space heater.
We find this a lot. Space heaters, get your shit together. Figure something
out. Talk amongst yourselves. I don't know what you need to do.
They found ashes that looked like human remains, but still weren't sure.
Her nobody believed her they're just like yeah there's ash this pile could be
(08:37):
it could could have been a cat could have been something could have been a squirrel
that ran in the window a dirty diaper it could have been like could have really been anything right,
Nobody believed her, so eventually this drove a wedge in her marriage,
and she and Pedro separated.
Wow. It sounds like she's better off, but that's just... So Pedro didn't believe her.
(08:59):
Pedro didn't believe her. He's... I mean, I just didn't like him in the beginning
because she's 10 days out of giving birth, and he's like, Oh,
you clean up the party. My cousin needs help with this.
Eh, I don't know. I don't like him. I don't like his vibe.
This brings us to another party in 2004. 2004. She saw a girl there that gave
her a feeling she just couldn't shake. She looked so familiar.
(09:21):
And then she smiled. How many years later is this? So this is 1997 when this
whole thing happened. This is 2004.
Seven years. Okay. So little kid. Little kid.
She smiled. She had a dimple on one side of her face, just like one of her sons,
and she looked so much like Luz.
She knew right then and there she was looking at her missing daughter.
(09:44):
She thought fast, called the girl over, and told her she had gum in her hair.
She yanked out about five strands, wrapped them in a napkin, and put them in a Ziploc.
Good thinking, Luz. Applause. You're amazing.
She knew from crime shows this would be sufficient for DNA testing.
And you guys wonder why we watch and listen to this stuff.
(10:06):
It's moments like this. I mean, you don't wonder, but other people wonder about us.
Yeah fine these are the lessons that we learn from
these stories i mean hopefully they teach us something
hopefully we don't have to go through anything like this but on the off chance
that you do this is incredible yes she did here then you know what to do or
(10:26):
it raises awareness for certain things so yeah so lose didn't have money for
an attorney so she went to the pennsylvania state state attorney's office.
Angel Cruz believed her and took on her case. When they tested the hair for
DNA, lo and behold, it was Delamar. Surprise, surprise. Wow.
It was Delamar. So what and how?
(10:51):
Did Delamar end up at a party seven years later?
I would love to tell you, and I hope it's in the rest of the story as I just
quickly scroll ahead. It is. I feel like it is. It has to be.
Luz and Pedro. Otherwise, we're terrible at this job. Otherwise,
I'm going to Google really quick while Mel sings a song and distracts you.
(11:13):
Luz and Pedro were reunited with Delamar at last. When Luz went into the room
to meet with her, she was hiding under a table.
Luz thought, great, she's terrified of me. Then the little girl popped out and
yelled, surprise, while giggling.
Oh, my gosh. Oh, my gosh, cutie. The transition wasn't an easy one,
and in total, it took about four months.
As I said before, Luz didn't speak English, and Delamar was brought up as Aaliyah,
(11:37):
speaking mainly English. Wow.
It began with supervised visits and calling her Aaliyah at first.
Eventually, they were able to start calling her Delamar, as she's known today.
She switched schools and moved in. When asked how she felt about it,
she said, happy, I'm at my real home.
She knew too. She did. That makes my heart hurt. Freaking cute.
(12:01):
It's sad, but also amazing at the same time that they missed all that time together.
It is. That they found their way back together and stories like this don't normally
have a happy ending like this. Exactly. To have one's good.
Carolyn claims she gave birth at home to a little girl she called Aaliyah Hernandez.
Her 17-year-old daughter, who was 11 at the time of the abduction,
(12:22):
had been at her father's that weekend.
Convenient she has the house to herself for her magical home birth.
She's very so she cooked up a nine-month pregnancy and a home birth in three
days it's amazing i mean speaking of amazing stories like here we go again okay she's like a fruit fly,
(12:42):
i'm pretty sure that's their she's like oh hurry up that's the timeline of a
fruit fly pop it out gestation i think it might be i gotta google that while
i look at the rest Someone Google that, but I have a feeling that's an approximate of a fruit fly.
That's accurate. Now her daughter claimed that two days before the fire,
(13:05):
she saw her new sister and the baby did not change her appearance.
But she was 11 at the time, and this is six or so years later she was remembering this.
And of course, it's also her mom, so she wants to not think her mom's crazy, probably.
I mean, I wouldn't say crazy, because here I go again, the hystericalness.
But you know what I mean? Like, there's something mentally wrong if you're faking
(13:28):
pregnancies and abducting babies
is a nicer way to put it. It comes with a sensation, like a feeling.
Yes. When people are not adjusting well to their reality.
Yeah. So I think kids can pick that up.
But you're right. There is a level of like, when you don't want to admit it
(13:48):
or really like, it's like you're You're aware of it, but you don't want to consciously
be aware of it because that puts negativity on your family and then on yourself.
Right. And then you have to deal with something that could be just like,
how is that even possible? How am I? How is this my life?
So you just deny it. I get it.
(14:09):
I'm sure she wanted to believe her mom. It just doesn't add up.
Let's talk about Carolyn for a minute.
She has three children and a long rap sheet. She was fired for stealing business
checks from the medical office she worked for. Guess what she did?
She burned the building down to cover her tracks.
Arson. So she received five years probation for the crime. No one was hurt, thankfully.
(14:33):
Carolyn had a history of faking pregnancies. We're talking four or five.
At one point, she took maternity leave from work, and when she returned,
she showed her co-workers a picture of her stillborn. What?
They were horrified, naturally. No records show any of these pregnancies existed,
though. She was likely faking the pregnancy and planning for this.
(14:54):
Investigators dropped the ball on this. The remains they found were actually
found to be burnt wool, which can look like human remains.
Wow. In order for human remains to turn into what they found,
though, a fire would have to be burning at 1,000 degrees for an hour.
Yeah. They should have concluded the fire reached nowhere near that hot. Or that timeline.
That timeline, either. yes they were they were on the
(15:16):
fire right away was carolyn working
alone carolyn said pedro gave her the baby and
she was convinced that the baby was now hers in 2005
she was sentenced to 9 to 30 years how did
nobody know she was pregnant i i
don't know she she really like still claims that
she was pregnant and all of this was real but
(15:38):
again did pedro really help that's what
it says he was never convicted or found to
have helped but that's her story and she's
sticking to it and i i am guessing
they really are cousins but who knows like third cousin is it first cousin whatever
and delamar marriage not delamar but could have been by marriage yeah it was
(16:02):
in the story oh yeah yeah you said you're listening better than me good job
thank you my job thank you so much.
My job is to listen and drink beer. I'm doing two of those things.
My job is just to talk and say words that sound right. You're doing great.
Thank you. I don't even know if they're what what the words mean, but I'm talking.
(16:23):
Yeah. So she was more of an extended family member. So it makes sense.
She didn't see them for a long period of time.
It makes sense that maybe Luz was just meeting her and she just met her at this party.
It's a new marriage. Yeah. It could be a new marriage. It could just be that.
She'd just given birth 10 days before, so preparing and all of this,
(16:43):
you're not out meeting people, mingling.
So Carolyn is now paroled and living in New Jersey again.
She had a hard time in jail, supposedly banging her head on prison walls,
and was suicidal at one point.
She said, if that isn't my baby, then who has her?
Okay, time for Crime on Tap. Are we ready? Time for Crime on Tap.
(17:03):
We're ready. A lot of thoughts here.
Yep, we sure are. Okay, so Crime on Tap is where we chink. Yep.
And I did not need to do that over.
And we put all facts aside and we just share our thoughts on the case.
And really, it's an opportunity to, you know, I feel like there's so many of
(17:26):
these stories you hear on podcasts and Dateline where no one really shares how they actually feel.
Deal so it's our opportunity to should talk a
little bit hypothesize you know
go off the rails and yeah pushing
up our glass push up our glasses and and allow you guys the listeners to listen
(17:47):
to what we think if you if you want if not you can end the episode here but
don't do it i'll find you but yeah so we crack a bone of beer so what are you
drinking i'm drinking i turn like hey what is is this?
Beach Fly Brewing Company Turtle Tracks. It's a delightful wheat with a little
(18:08):
bit of orange flavor, a little bit of a tropical wheat, if you will.
Nice. Nice. I like it. Yeah.
Here in Rockledge, local. Rockledge, Florida. I'm drinking a Space Kolsch,
light, refreshing beer, 5% alcohol, also from Beach Fly.
Super good because we're on the Space Coast. That's right. Right. Space Kulsh.
(18:30):
Okay. So Pedro, the husband.
So they had a family party and the people left.
Sounds like Caroline. Carolina? Carolyn.
Carolyn was like a residual. Like she left. It was like a leftover from the party.
Maybe she just stayed and was like, hey, can you just take breaks for me?
(18:52):
Because Luz was cleaning up at this point and he was fixing her car out there.
Sounds like maybe they They were there visiting and she was like,
oh, by the way, like, you know, she just had a baby three days ago,
but she had no baby at the party.
Yeah. Which was like head scratcher. She had no car seat in her car.
Yeah. Nobody thought to ask these questions.
(19:12):
These are big things. So Pedro's helping her. Okay. But.
And she claims Pedro put all this together, but then she's confused about where her baby is.
So it's like, you know, in her testimony when she was caught or when she was
like going to jail, she was like, Pedro helped me.
(19:36):
Helped you do what? Where's my baby? And it's like, well, did he help you or
you don't know where your kid is?
Like, what is it? It doesn't make sense.
It doesn't make a lot of sense to me. but i really just feel
like she i thank
god saved like didn't hurt
(19:57):
the the child oh my goodness yeah who knows what
that kid's life was like right i mean i
think it was well she'd already had a kid carolyn yeah
yeah she did the it was 11 years old she had
a daughter yeah like how many kids do you
need i don't know i mean right it's not like it's just
like the baby thing yeah pregnancy she's almost like obsessed
(20:18):
with that yeah attention or something hysterical maybe
yeah i don't know but i agree i
think i i don't know pedro it
seems a little shady like i don't think he gave carolyn
delamar or anything like that i just
i don't know there's just something about his
(20:40):
part in the story that i just don't
like maybe i just don't like him but it's
it is a different culture too where i guess i guess you you know you kind of
were expected to but he seems so removed like he he didn't believe he didn't
(21:00):
believe the story he didn't understand like he He didn't believe her when she was like,
the baby was still in there. He didn't believe.
And it even like brought on their demise.
And it's like, why aren't you just as livid about your 10-day-old? Yeah.
(21:20):
It seems a little sus because it's like, who are you taking this out on?
And I get it. Like, people break up after kids die or piece away.
So, like, there's that. that but like yeah i'm
just really curious about his role in all of this yeah
i would have liked to know more
about how he was reacting to
(21:43):
the news or i mean how how he didn't even try to listen to what lose was saying
like yeah it doesn't seem like they investigated her and you smacked yourself
in the face it doesn't seem like they investigated her claims at any point.
Like the baby wasn't in there. What? They were just like.
(22:04):
You're just, you're just seeing what you want to see. Like, I'm so sorry.
The baby was in there and here's the pile of ash. Clearly, that's what it was.
I just wonder too, like, what was his involvement once they got Delamar back?
I didn't know he could sit back and do this. That's a good idea.
Well, I just, my, I got a flu shot and my body is achy. So I'm like,
(22:27):
this feels so much better.
So I'll do it. That's good. Getting real casual over here. But like,
what was Pedro's, I wonder what his reaction was to like, her realizing that it's Delamar.
Uh-huh. Was he still around? Because I mean, they had other kids together.
So she's probably co-parenting at that point.
They were, they were co-parenting. And I think they went together to be reunited with her.
(22:51):
So they did meet up in the room together with her.
And they did have a relationship from that point on, just co-parenting.
And they probably still did with the three kids they had.
Yeah. But they. He's like, I'm a big asshole. Yeah.
He's like, whoops. Probably didn't say, like, I'm sorry. He probably just said,
like. Probably not. Can you clean up my dinner plate?
(23:11):
Yeah. And that was his, like, I'm sorry. Yeah.
I don't think they got back together at all. No. No.
I would have been flipping tables on everybody.
I would have just, I mean, I would have been so happy to see her that that would
have all come after my feelings get back to normal about it.
(23:33):
Does she have like a civil case against like the fire department?
Probably not because in these cases, like they usually just have so much protection
or just know people that nothing ever seems to come from it.
Yeah. So, yeah, I remember.
I feel like it's like seeing something. They're the ones that,
(23:55):
you know, didn't listen to her claim.
Yeah. Didn't record her story or like, who knows if they recorded it,
but didn't believe her story.
Justified it with some baloney, you know, wool that was burned.
I mean, did they do any testing on that?
Did they you know obviously the the
(24:16):
fire did not burn for an hour no and it
wasn't a thousand degrees for an hour it's no
the fact that they were just like oh
well the reason we don't see her is because she has so much cartilage and she's
10 days old and then there's this and this and oh oh crap there's some ash that's
(24:38):
her there she is sorry about that but here she is yeah and not Not even, I don't know.
It's just all so weird that they were just trying so hard to prove their point
without thinking about other theories.
It's not investigative work. It's just trying to prove you're right at that point. Yeah, exactly.
(25:00):
Which we've seen in other cases. People just get so set that they can't look at anything else.
And that's how, yeah, they don't keep an open mind about what it could have been. Mm-hmm.
Yeah. That's crazy. Wow. That's crazy. What a story. Well, I'm glad it worked
out and Carolyn's still out there.
So, well, I hope you got the help you need. She's not babysitting for anyone.
(25:22):
Hope she's not babysitting.
I hope she's not banging her head anymore. Yeah. That's sad.
She needs help. She does.
It's sad she went to prison and didn't get any like help, like actual help.
Right. They just threw her in there.
Which I feel like she would be a case for psychological help.
Yes. Yes, there should definitely be more of that instead of just throwing everybody
(25:44):
in prison, no matter what. Yeah.
Don't you want better people? Yeah, you can do two things at once,
you know, have therapy and going to prison.
Right. Our whole thing is just punishment, punishment, punishment, not rehabilitation.
Yeah, because I feel like if you're going to let her back out and she hasn't
gotten help and she still thinks her baby's out there somewhere,
(26:06):
then it's like she's going to,
what's the word where they redo the crime again you know yeah so it's like you're you're basically,
punishing her for this act but not preparing her for a life where she won't want to do that again,
so can we who do we write a letter to i'm not sure this is our whole justice
(26:31):
system like how do we fix this yeah oh i feel like flipping tables yeah well
don't flip this one i've got got a half beer on here. Me too.
Oh, I have a full beer, actually. I need to chug, guys. Sorry about that.
All right. Well, that's a great story. I mean, it's a positive story.
I think at the end of the day, I think Lou's is...
(26:54):
You know, she came out on top. She definitely did. She got rid of Pedro.
Yep. She got her daughter back. Yep. Her daughter's happy that she's back. Yep.
It's not like there's, you know, so that's awesome. That's a best case scenario.
Her daughter's like, hell yeah, this is where I'm supposed to be.
This is my mom. She's cool as shit.
Mm-hmm. And, you know, her family will believe her.
(27:19):
Yep. Unfortunately, that had to happen. But, like, now she's got a full life
again. And now when anybody else doubts her, she's like, do you know who I am? She's like, excuse me.
Have you met me? How very dare you? Yeah.
I did some DNA from my kid's hair. Biatch.
Turns out I'm 100%. Yes.
(27:43):
Great story. Lovely. Yes. Thank you.
Thank you for listening. Thank you for telling me back the story when I forgot.
You're doing great. Thank you.
That's all we can do. Thank you for the beer. And maybe this will be kind of
a Thanksgiving story by the time it's out.
I mean, oh, no, it should be out sooner. But season. Tis the season.
(28:04):
It's fall, baby. It is. Yep. All right. Well, thanks for listening, everyone.
And until next time. Dark. Dark in the room.
Wow. I forgot my line. Dark in the room. Dark in the room. Dark in that room. Dark.
Music.
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