December 2, 2024 • 28 mins
For this episode of CECI Connect, Melanie discusses the ways in which a liberal arts education supports education and community-innovation careers with Dr. Chasity Bailey-Fakhoury, Associate Dean for the College of Education and Community Innovation at Grand Valley State University.
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(00:04):
You're listening to CECI Connect,
a podcast from the CECI Undergraduateadvising Office for the College
of Education and Community Innovationat Grand Valley State University.
Whether you're a student, teacher,professional or friend.
Welcome to this episode.
(00:27):
So today I have with mea very special guest.
We are joined by associateDean, Doctor Chasity Bailey-Fakhoury.
Hey, Melanie.
Thanks for inviting me on. Yes.Thank you for being here.
I'm so gratefulthat you found time to chat with us today.
I wanted to make surethat we have a whole episode
(00:48):
about this topicbecause it's very important to me.
I deeply care about liberal education.
I think that's something
that probably a lot of Grand Valleyemployees have in common with each other.
So, I'm hoping todaywe can have, like, a really cool
conversation for our studentsabout what we love about liberal education
(01:09):
and what we think they can gainfrom studying here at Grand Valley.
But before we get into that,
I would love it if you could share with usyour journey.
Give us a little briefoverview of what you've accomplished
and what you've been through to sort ofget to where you are today.
As our associate Dean.
Well, so I have to start out
(01:31):
with the factthat I'm from Detroit originally.
I taught in Detroit public schoolsfor 15 years before I finished my PhD,
and was able to take on a jobas a professor
of educational foundations, here at Grand Valley State.
I've been at GVSU for 11 years, right.
(01:51):
So I am a teacher educator.
That's what I came here for, was to,
utilize my experience, my knowledge,
my skills in order to help developequity minded future teachers.
So I've only been associatedean since August.
(02:12):
So this is brand new for me, but
it is just a natural kind of continuation.
I think about the legacy that I hadin Detroit public schools,
the thousands of studentsthat I taught over the years,
and partnering with themand their families to help them realize
(02:32):
their aspirations.
I began to think,how could I have a larger impact?
And it's like, well, wow,what if I could help develop
future teacherswho kind of come at it with a similar
ethos that I do rightin, in seeing the brilliance in children?
Wanting to partner with themand have them
(02:54):
realize their potentialand find their purpose.
And it was like, well, you know,
developing future teacherswho could do that, right?
A teacher, educator.
And then now expanding that to think
about a really holistic approachto education
and this college of educationand community innovation,
(03:14):
not only being able to partnerwith future teachers,
but future social workers, future folkswho are in the the legal system,
it will be coming into contact, perhapswith families and students and children.
Thinking about,you know, public administration
and I mean, the list goes on.
(03:34):
Like everyone within the college
has the ability to touch this
kind of K-12, ecosystem.
And so then as a part of the leadership
in the college,I can help make those connection points.
I can help folks, collaborate.
And we can really do things that are goingto be beneficial for the community.
(03:57):
And it's children.
So that's kind of, you know, how I come
to this workat this particular point in time.
I love that,I think, I've been working in
higher ed for, almost 15 years.
But for the sake of our listenerswho are maybe new to college,
could you explain
(04:18):
maybe the biggest differenceyou've noticed in your professional life
between being a teacher, educatorand being a dean?
So one of the biggest thingsis, you know, you do lose that
that student to teacher kind of every dayrelationship and interaction.
Kind of
(04:39):
deepening those, relationshipsin that regard.
But,
you can help to craft the vision
for the collegeand then be able to amplify and elevate
the work of faculty colleagues, of staffcolleagues, of students.
(04:59):
Right.
You're able to make connection points.
You're able to help providethe resources and supports
that are necessaryto kind of realize the vision.
I'm able to support that
connection between faculty and student,right, in a lot of ways, and touch a lot,
a lot more folks than maybe out of thethree classes I would teach a semester,
(05:22):
the like 60 students that I would end up,getting to know.
It's just a larger space.
You're still doing the work on behalf ofof the folks you're still serving, right?
But it just allows you
greater access that you can leverageto the benefit of other folks.
(05:42):
So, did you always know that you weregoing to be an associate dean someday?
So what did you thinkyou were going to be doing?
I really thought that I would beprofessionally
fulfilled and satisfiedretiring as a teacher educator.
Right.
Being a teacher, scholar,all of those things.
(06:04):
I had the fortune of being ableto participate
in some programs for facultydevelopment here at Grand Valley State.
That allowed meto see administrators in action.
And what was really kind of opaque to me,in a way,
became really clear.
(06:24):
And I could see myself doing thiswork like,
I, you know, I can, I canI can make a difference, right?
I can bring that faculty perspective,that former public school
teacher perspectiveto bear in this administrative role.
I thought, okay, I can do this right.
(06:46):
My college has really invested in me,
and I want to be able to invest in itlike I want to pay the dividend right?
I want to pay it back.
And now I can see myself. Yes.
Becoming a dean of a college of educationor a college similar
to our College of Educationand Community Innovation. Yes.
(07:07):
I can be a provostat a college or university,
because I had exposure and experiencein these programs
that allowed me to be at a tableto see decisions made, to see how folks
move through spaces,how they show up, how they navigate spaces
in this kind of administrativeand senior leadership capacity.
(07:28):
And I, developed
I mean,
you know, the belief in my skillsand the confidence in myself
that I could be someone'schief academic officer, right.
The provost of a universityor institution.
I'm not looking to be anybody's president.
Okay?
But I'm very comfortable
being on the teamand being your number two.
(07:51):
I'm very comfortable in that spot.
If I'm dedicated to the vision right.
And the.
And what it isthat you're trying to accomplish, then
I can be an integral role in helpingto bring that vision to fruition.
I think what I'm hearing too,and you describing
(08:13):
your sort of like self-actualization,
the sort of like pathway you found toward
achieving fulfillment,maybe in a different way than you thought
you would, is noticing a relationshipbetween your experiences
and what you've learned about yourselfin that experience, whether you identified
a skill that you gained, a goalthat you might have developed
(08:35):
and I really do feel like
those of us who work in highered see learning
and experiencing thingsas like a playground to find yourself
and, in my experience,that's what undergrad was for me a lot.
Can you share with us a little bit
about your undergrad journeyand what you were studying,
(08:56):
and like what you learned about yourselfin that phase of your life?
I agree so much with what you
just said that really resonates with me.
Not only did I teach in Detroitpublic schools, I was educated through
Detroit Public Schoolsfrom kindergarten to 12th grade.
I attended University of Michiganin undergrad, and I majored in sociology.
(09:19):
Okay, and got my teaching certificationso that I could become
a social studies teacher.
I think about the coursework
that I was required to take,and then the stuff that I loved
and wanted so much more of,and how I was so excited
to become a junior, a senior,because then what my course
(09:44):
looked like was more of those classesthat I really loved.
That my first year, second yearexperience really prepared me
to be able to make very broad connectionsbetween the content
that I was receiving and, you know, firstand second year that would then, help
to kind of shape and guide,those higher level
(10:06):
courses in my, in my major.
And so
I loved learning.
Right.
And things I did not know about,
you know, discovery of so much history,
even like the practical applicationof statistics, you know, it's like,
(10:27):
so many things that allowed for meto kind of broaden my perspective.
That challenged my thinking, whatI thought was the gospel truth, right?
About certain, concepts or constructsor issues,
really growingright in that interrogating.
(10:48):
Yeah. Where did I get this from?
Who told me this story?
How did I get this message? Right?
Learning more about this American story,this the U.S.
contextand our connection across the globe.
So it just a lot. Right. And I loved it.
I soaked it up, but learned a lot
about about myselfand who I am, who I am in this society.
(11:12):
One of the best things I ever didwas to study abroad for a semester.
I took advantage of what we call theseone of these high impact practices.
And I went to Italy
and I studied abroad and, in Florence,and I learned a little Italian,
and I, dug into,Renaissance art history.
(11:37):
I was thinking about
how I could use my experiences in Italy,
going to these world historical sites,
and bringing that back for my studentswhen I would teach
about world civilizations,when I would teach about world history.
(12:00):
So when I went to Italy,we went to Rome, as a,
a weekend trip, and we went to the Colosseum.
And at this timewhen I went, you could actually go down
to the lower levels of the Colosseumand I have a picture of me
standing on.
(12:20):
You were allowed to do this.
I didn't break any rules.
You were allowed
to stand on these remnants, right?
And I took a picture,
with the kind of the amphitheater partin the back of the Colosseum.
The amphitheater.
So you see me and you see the amphitheaterI turned this into back in the day.
(12:43):
We use transparenciesright on a overhead projector.
So I had these pictures of mein these places in,
in Italy that we would be talking about,
I would be teaching my students aboutand then say, see look at me.
When I was in collegethis is what I did, right.
And so
that was a it was just a
(13:05):
totally life changing experience.
And I would want every personto have some kind
of transformative educational experiencelike that.
And I think it's just so important to our,
you know, growth and developmentas human beings.
I agree,I think, that's sort of what I was,
(13:29):
I was hopingwe would be able to talk about
today is like the transfer,formative experience of learning,
growing and what college
can kind of provide for youso that you can learn and you can develop.
And, I mentioned to youin sort of our like, you know, pre
(13:51):
recording conversation about how I come
from a humanities background.
When I was in undergrad,I tried a bunch of different majors,
I really did, I tried
I originally came to Grand Valleyfor the social work program.
That's what I wanted to do.
I was like,I'm going to be a social worker. And
(14:13):
my understanding of college
is that it was career readiness,
not necessarily personal development zone.
And I came to college with this ideathat I was going to study
something that had a jobdirectly related to it.
So I'll major in social work, because thenI'll be a social worker when I'm done.
(14:35):
And that didn't work out.
So then I studied education because I wasgoing to be a teacher when I was done,
and I think it wasmy junior year of college,
I studied abroad,I went to the Netherlands
and was teaching in a classroom,and then came back
to the United States, and I was like,I don't want to be a teacher.
(14:56):
Like at all.
Definitely not in the K-12 setting.
So now what do I do?
And I just opted to finish my degree
in English literature.
But I didn't know what job you doafter you major in English.
So it there was a lot of fear and anxiety
(15:18):
for me in studying humanities
and sort of just digging deepinto liberal education
because I didn't have a job lined upbased on what major I had.
Now, the students that I work with hereat CECI
they all have that job
that they are studyingabout in their classes.
(15:42):
We have majors here in this collegethat are directly
related to a jobthat you can get when you're done.
But we still ask our students
to complete the general educationcurriculum here.
We still ask that our studentsembrace a liberal education.
(16:02):
A lot of them will graduatewith a bachelor's degree
in arts or a bachelor's degree in science.
Those are awarded to you
because you've accomplishedthat liberal education curriculum.
So, you know, I came from itwith like a huge appreciation
for liberal educationbecause I had to work through this anxiety
(16:24):
about like, what job am I going to get?
So I had to really focus onwhat skills I developed in college
so that I could sell myselfto a job after.
And then we have other folksthat studying specifically
for that job related to their major.
As somebodywho has feet in two worlds of like,
you know, you were an educatorwho followed a path towards
(16:47):
educating other peopleand now working with educators
from like an educator mindset,like you had a path that way,
but then also as an advocatefor wholehearted,
well-roundedlearning at the college level,
can you share with uswhat direct benefits you see
(17:07):
in our studentsreceiving a liberal education,
whether they're going to becomea police officer or a detective,
or a lawyer, or a social worker,or a fifth grade teacher,
what direct benefits do you see to them
all experiencing liberal education here?
(17:29):
I think about problem solving.
What problem do you want to solve?
How will you go about doing thateffectively?
Is this a problemthat I can solve independently,
or do I need to collaboratewith other people every day?
Folks are faced with problemsthat they need to solve.
(17:53):
Whether you're the teacher in theclassroom, you know, seeing students
who maybe don't seem as engaged,whether you are a social worker
who is, supporting someone
who is facing challengeswith mental wellness, right?
You are the person in juvenile
justice and and you are talking
(18:15):
with the school resource officerabout some issues that may be okay.
Well, this is what a liberal educationdoes, is that it
provides you with differentlike a multifaceted approach.
When you are presented with a problem,nothing happens in a vacuum.
And so you're getting a little bit
(18:38):
of the social science is
you're getting a little bitof the physical and life sciences.
You're getting a little bitof the mathematics you've got for English.
You have some history, you got a little,you know, the philosophy, right?
All of these things broadenour perspective
and understandingand allow us to see connections right.
(19:00):
Reveal like openings, help us shape
keys to unlock solutions. So
I think that that is what is the most
you know,
why this is like the most human centeredendeavor,
(19:21):
right,is because we are developing the capacity
as human beings to be faced
with issues or problemsand devise solutions to create solutions,
and they will take all differentshapes and sizes,
and we can be presentedwith the same problem.
(19:41):
And in a classroom of 25,people come up with massive amount
of solutions for a particular problembased upon the experiences
that we've had, the courseworkthat we, you know,
delved into different frameworksthat we've been given,
or that we explored in different classes,our own positionality.
(20:03):
Right.
And, and the experiencesthat are associated with that,
all of that colors our understanding of
how we're going to see somethingand then how we might tackle it right.
And soI think that that's really important
to be presented with a challengeand to not despair,
to be able to be in conversationor community with other people
(20:25):
if necessary,to try to figure out, solutions.
And I think that that is the biggest, benefit, right?
For me,when we think about a liberal education
and that everybody needs it,
whether you're going to go
into the business college, whether you'rein computing or engineering, right.
(20:46):
How do you transfer knowledge?
How are you able to translate,you know, the things
that you're learning so that you're movingfrom theory to practice.
And it is a benefit of yourselfand other folks.
Right.
And a liberal educationgives you the tools to be able to do that.
You know, people talk about soft skills,
and I just do not like the termsoft skills.
(21:09):
I mean, these are fundamental skills.
They are the building blocksfor everything else.
Right?
And thoseare those are things that you develop,
through, a liberal education.
I cannot agree more.
I think, I, I describe thisto a lot of people in my life
(21:30):
where, I'm not among a lot of collegeeducated people.
I'm among a lot of,like, life educated people.
And so I have figured out that,
there's a particular wayI like to describe my experience
with college, and a lot ofit has to do with the fact that I have,
(21:52):
a bachelor's degree that I feel likeis my sort of liberal arts degree.
And then I have a master's degreethat I feel like
is more of my professional degree.
It's the one that's more deeply connectedto the work I do every day.
And that sort of like
practical, professional componentto my education is what made me feel
(22:13):
like I belongedin this professional world.
So if I hadif I had gotten my bachelor's degree in,
like hospitality and tourism management,I think those classes that
I would have taken related to that fieldwould make me feel like I belong there.
And then the liberal arts kinds of classesor the
(22:34):
the gen ed kind of classesare sort of like my English degree,
where it makes me feel likeI can participate in society.
It makes me feel likeI can relate to other people.
And like you said, I can solve problems.
I had to transfer that knowledgeinto lots of different practical settings
all the time, and the value
(22:57):
of feeling like I can meet a new person.
I can approach a new experience,and I'm either going to have the ability
to connect with this person,because maybe we've read the same book
now, or we've studiedthe same philosophy, or,
you know, they're a biologist,and I took a biology class that one time,
(23:18):
like, I can connect with them or it'sgoing to be some sort of experience where
now I have, critical thinking skills,you know, you know, things like that.
So it's like my liberal educationhelped me
be a person here in of this place.
And then my professional degreelet me feel like
(23:39):
I had an open door into an industry,and they both work together all the time
because I'm not just at work,I do other things as well.
So I feel like what you've done reallywell here in this conversation is sort of
lay out the fact that, holisticallyspeaking, we want our students
to feel professionally ready,but also like personally ready.
(24:03):
And it sounds to melike you, recognize the value
in, pursuing a professional goal,even if it's from start to finish.
And even if your degree looks exactly likethe job you're going to get afterwards.
We we value professional readiness,
but we also value human
development and skill developmentand exposure development.
(24:27):
That makes you a more rounded,whole person when you leave us.
So I think, that leads really wellactually
into the question we ask everyonewhen they're here on our podcast.
So, and our last few minutes together,if you could please
(24:48):
answer the question for me,what does connection mean to you?
Connection means to me.
Community,
in thinking about what you just spoke
out, spoke about and being able to
(25:08):
be a citizen of the world,that is what we're talking about.
Our professional identity is just onepart of who we are, right?
But we are a citizen of the world,
and that shows up in so many differentspaces, right?
And so connection for me
(25:29):
is about, community
thinking about, investing in community,
growing community, wherever I may be.
That we can take the, the term connection
(25:50):
and so many ways that, really,
fosters community and facilitates that.
Right.
And so
that's what we want
to foster in this kind of physical place.
Right?
Is community, is feeling a sense
(26:12):
of being a part of somethinggreater than myself.
Right.
And I do that through connection
with other folks.
That it is not just me.
Right.
Are there things that we want to solveand challenges before us?
We can do that in community, right?
(26:34):
We can find, rest
and rejuvenation in community.
Right.
And so those connectionsare extremely important
then for facilitatingthose kinds of things.
Right.
So a community can be anywhere,
(26:56):
that you are
that people congregate,right, in varying levels.
It does not always have to be active.
Again, it can be, a place of rest, right?
When we needthat kind of getting away from,
we can find it in community.
And so,
(27:17):
that is what comes to mind for me
when we talk about connections.
Well, that's beautiful.
And I feel like, you know,even if it's just the two of us
talking today,I feel like through our connection,
we sort of established our ownlittle mini community in this moment.
So I feel deeply connected
(27:38):
to your answer there,and I just really appreciate it.
It's been an absolute joylistening to you,
learning from you today,and I'm just so grateful.
Thank you for the invitation.
I feel to say that we have createda community in this moment.
Right.
And, and thank you for the invitation.
I, I've enjoyed this conversationand I think it is much, much needed.
(28:08):
Thank you for listening.
Our episode was hosted,written and engineered by Melanie
Rabine - Johnson, the academic resourcesand retention specialist
for the CECI Undergraduate Advising Officeat Grand Valley State University.
You're listening to CECI Connect,
a podcast from the CECI Undergraduateadvising Office for the College
of Education and Community Innovationat Grand Valley State University.
Whether you're a student, teacher,professional or friend.
Welcome to this episode.
(00:27):
So today I have with mea very special guest.
We are joined by associateDean, Doctor Chasity Bailey-Fakhoury.
Hey, Melanie.
Thanks for inviting me on. Yes.Thank you for being here.
I'm so gratefulthat you found time to chat with us today.
I wanted to make surethat we have a whole episode
(00:48):
about this topicbecause it's very important to me.
I deeply care about liberal education.
I think that's something
that probably a lot of Grand Valleyemployees have in common with each other.
So, I'm hoping todaywe can have, like, a really cool
conversation for our studentsabout what we love about liberal education
(01:09):
and what we think they can gainfrom studying here at Grand Valley.
But before we get into that,
I would love it if you could share with usyour journey.
Give us a little briefoverview of what you've accomplished
and what you've been through to sort ofget to where you are today.
As our associate Dean.
Well, so I have to start out
(01:31):
with the factthat I'm from Detroit originally.
I taught in Detroit public schoolsfor 15 years before I finished my PhD,
and was able to take on a jobas a professor
of educational foundations, here at Grand Valley State.
I've been at GVSU for 11 years, right.
(01:51):
So I am a teacher educator.
That's what I came here for, was to,
utilize my experience, my knowledge,
my skills in order to help developequity minded future teachers.
So I've only been associatedean since August.
(02:12):
So this is brand new for me, but
it is just a natural kind of continuation.
I think about the legacy that I hadin Detroit public schools,
the thousands of studentsthat I taught over the years,
and partnering with themand their families to help them realize
(02:32):
their aspirations.
I began to think,how could I have a larger impact?
And it's like, well, wow,what if I could help develop
future teacherswho kind of come at it with a similar
ethos that I do rightin, in seeing the brilliance in children?
Wanting to partner with themand have them
(02:54):
realize their potentialand find their purpose.
And it was like, well, you know,
developing future teacherswho could do that, right?
A teacher, educator.
And then now expanding that to think
about a really holistic approachto education
and this college of educationand community innovation,
(03:14):
not only being able to partnerwith future teachers,
but future social workers, future folkswho are in the the legal system,
it will be coming into contact, perhapswith families and students and children.
Thinking about,you know, public administration
and I mean, the list goes on.
(03:34):
Like everyone within the college
has the ability to touch this
kind of K-12, ecosystem.
And so then as a part of the leadership
in the college,I can help make those connection points.
I can help folks, collaborate.
And we can really do things that are goingto be beneficial for the community.
(03:57):
And it's children.
So that's kind of, you know, how I come
to this workat this particular point in time.
I love that,I think, I've been working in
higher ed for, almost 15 years.
But for the sake of our listenerswho are maybe new to college,
could you explain
(04:18):
maybe the biggest differenceyou've noticed in your professional life
between being a teacher, educatorand being a dean?
So one of the biggest thingsis, you know, you do lose that
that student to teacher kind of every dayrelationship and interaction.
Kind of
(04:39):
deepening those, relationshipsin that regard.
But,
you can help to craft the vision
for the collegeand then be able to amplify and elevate
the work of faculty colleagues, of staffcolleagues, of students.
(04:59):
Right.
You're able to make connection points.
You're able to help providethe resources and supports
that are necessaryto kind of realize the vision.
I'm able to support that
connection between faculty and student,right, in a lot of ways, and touch a lot,
a lot more folks than maybe out of thethree classes I would teach a semester,
(05:22):
the like 60 students that I would end up,getting to know.
It's just a larger space.
You're still doing the work on behalf ofof the folks you're still serving, right?
But it just allows you
greater access that you can leverageto the benefit of other folks.
(05:42):
So, did you always know that you weregoing to be an associate dean someday?
So what did you thinkyou were going to be doing?
I really thought that I would beprofessionally
fulfilled and satisfiedretiring as a teacher educator.
Right.
Being a teacher, scholar,all of those things.
(06:04):
I had the fortune of being ableto participate
in some programs for facultydevelopment here at Grand Valley State.
That allowed meto see administrators in action.
And what was really kind of opaque to me,in a way,
became really clear.
(06:24):
And I could see myself doing thiswork like,
I, you know, I can, I canI can make a difference, right?
I can bring that faculty perspective,that former public school
teacher perspectiveto bear in this administrative role.
I thought, okay, I can do this right.
(06:46):
My college has really invested in me,
and I want to be able to invest in itlike I want to pay the dividend right?
I want to pay it back.
And now I can see myself. Yes.
Becoming a dean of a college of educationor a college similar
to our College of Educationand Community Innovation. Yes.
(07:07):
I can be a provostat a college or university,
because I had exposure and experiencein these programs
that allowed me to be at a tableto see decisions made, to see how folks
move through spaces,how they show up, how they navigate spaces
in this kind of administrativeand senior leadership capacity.
(07:28):
And I, developed
I mean,
you know, the belief in my skillsand the confidence in myself
that I could be someone'schief academic officer, right.
The provost of a universityor institution.
I'm not looking to be anybody's president.
Okay?
But I'm very comfortable
being on the teamand being your number two.
(07:51):
I'm very comfortable in that spot.
If I'm dedicated to the vision right.
And the.
And what it isthat you're trying to accomplish, then
I can be an integral role in helpingto bring that vision to fruition.
I think what I'm hearing too,and you describing
(08:13):
your sort of like self-actualization,
the sort of like pathway you found toward
achieving fulfillment,maybe in a different way than you thought
you would, is noticing a relationshipbetween your experiences
and what you've learned about yourselfin that experience, whether you identified
a skill that you gained, a goalthat you might have developed
(08:35):
and I really do feel like
those of us who work in highered see learning
and experiencing thingsas like a playground to find yourself
and, in my experience,that's what undergrad was for me a lot.
Can you share with us a little bit
about your undergrad journeyand what you were studying,
(08:56):
and like what you learned about yourselfin that phase of your life?
I agree so much with what you
just said that really resonates with me.
Not only did I teach in Detroitpublic schools, I was educated through
Detroit Public Schoolsfrom kindergarten to 12th grade.
I attended University of Michiganin undergrad, and I majored in sociology.
(09:19):
Okay, and got my teaching certificationso that I could become
a social studies teacher.
I think about the coursework
that I was required to take,and then the stuff that I loved
and wanted so much more of,and how I was so excited
to become a junior, a senior,because then what my course
(09:44):
looked like was more of those classesthat I really loved.
That my first year, second yearexperience really prepared me
to be able to make very broad connectionsbetween the content
that I was receiving and, you know, firstand second year that would then, help
to kind of shape and guide,those higher level
(10:06):
courses in my, in my major.
And so
I loved learning.
Right.
And things I did not know about,
you know, discovery of so much history,
even like the practical applicationof statistics, you know, it's like,
(10:27):
so many things that allowed for meto kind of broaden my perspective.
That challenged my thinking, whatI thought was the gospel truth, right?
About certain, concepts or constructsor issues,
really growingright in that interrogating.
(10:48):
Yeah. Where did I get this from?
Who told me this story?
How did I get this message? Right?
Learning more about this American story,this the U.S.
contextand our connection across the globe.
So it just a lot. Right. And I loved it.
I soaked it up, but learned a lot
about about myselfand who I am, who I am in this society.
(11:12):
One of the best things I ever didwas to study abroad for a semester.
I took advantage of what we call theseone of these high impact practices.
And I went to Italy
and I studied abroad and, in Florence,and I learned a little Italian,
and I, dug into,Renaissance art history.
(11:37):
I was thinking about
how I could use my experiences in Italy,
going to these world historical sites,
and bringing that back for my studentswhen I would teach
about world civilizations,when I would teach about world history.
(12:00):
So when I went to Italy,we went to Rome, as a,
a weekend trip, and we went to the Colosseum.
And at this timewhen I went, you could actually go down
to the lower levels of the Colosseumand I have a picture of me
standing on.
(12:20):
You were allowed to do this.
I didn't break any rules.
You were allowed
to stand on these remnants, right?
And I took a picture,
with the kind of the amphitheater partin the back of the Colosseum.
The amphitheater.
So you see me and you see the amphitheaterI turned this into back in the day.
(12:43):
We use transparenciesright on a overhead projector.
So I had these pictures of mein these places in,
in Italy that we would be talking about,
I would be teaching my students aboutand then say, see look at me.
When I was in collegethis is what I did, right.
And so
that was a it was just a
(13:05):
totally life changing experience.
And I would want every personto have some kind
of transformative educational experiencelike that.
And I think it's just so important to our,
you know, growth and developmentas human beings.
I agree,I think, that's sort of what I was,
(13:29):
I was hopingwe would be able to talk about
today is like the transfer,formative experience of learning,
growing and what college
can kind of provide for youso that you can learn and you can develop.
And, I mentioned to youin sort of our like, you know, pre
(13:51):
recording conversation about how I come
from a humanities background.
When I was in undergrad,I tried a bunch of different majors,
I really did, I tried
I originally came to Grand Valleyfor the social work program.
That's what I wanted to do.
I was like,I'm going to be a social worker. And
(14:13):
my understanding of college
is that it was career readiness,
not necessarily personal development zone.
And I came to college with this ideathat I was going to study
something that had a jobdirectly related to it.
So I'll major in social work, because thenI'll be a social worker when I'm done.
(14:35):
And that didn't work out.
So then I studied education because I wasgoing to be a teacher when I was done,
and I think it wasmy junior year of college,
I studied abroad,I went to the Netherlands
and was teaching in a classroom,and then came back
to the United States, and I was like,I don't want to be a teacher.
(14:56):
Like at all.
Definitely not in the K-12 setting.
So now what do I do?
And I just opted to finish my degree
in English literature.
But I didn't know what job you doafter you major in English.
So it there was a lot of fear and anxiety
(15:18):
for me in studying humanities
and sort of just digging deepinto liberal education
because I didn't have a job lined upbased on what major I had.
Now, the students that I work with hereat CECI
they all have that job
that they are studyingabout in their classes.
(15:42):
We have majors here in this collegethat are directly
related to a jobthat you can get when you're done.
But we still ask our students
to complete the general educationcurriculum here.
We still ask that our studentsembrace a liberal education.
(16:02):
A lot of them will graduatewith a bachelor's degree
in arts or a bachelor's degree in science.
Those are awarded to you
because you've accomplishedthat liberal education curriculum.
So, you know, I came from itwith like a huge appreciation
for liberal educationbecause I had to work through this anxiety
(16:24):
about like, what job am I going to get?
So I had to really focus onwhat skills I developed in college
so that I could sell myselfto a job after.
And then we have other folksthat studying specifically
for that job related to their major.
As somebodywho has feet in two worlds of like,
you know, you were an educatorwho followed a path towards
(16:47):
educating other peopleand now working with educators
from like an educator mindset,like you had a path that way,
but then also as an advocatefor wholehearted,
well-roundedlearning at the college level,
can you share with uswhat direct benefits you see
(17:07):
in our studentsreceiving a liberal education,
whether they're going to becomea police officer or a detective,
or a lawyer, or a social worker,or a fifth grade teacher,
what direct benefits do you see to them
all experiencing liberal education here?
(17:29):
I think about problem solving.
What problem do you want to solve?
How will you go about doing thateffectively?
Is this a problemthat I can solve independently,
or do I need to collaboratewith other people every day?
Folks are faced with problemsthat they need to solve.
(17:53):
Whether you're the teacher in theclassroom, you know, seeing students
who maybe don't seem as engaged,whether you are a social worker
who is, supporting someone
who is facing challengeswith mental wellness, right?
You are the person in juvenile
justice and and you are talking
(18:15):
with the school resource officerabout some issues that may be okay.
Well, this is what a liberal educationdoes, is that it
provides you with differentlike a multifaceted approach.
When you are presented with a problem,nothing happens in a vacuum.
And so you're getting a little bit
(18:38):
of the social science is
you're getting a little bitof the physical and life sciences.
You're getting a little bitof the mathematics you've got for English.
You have some history, you got a little,you know, the philosophy, right?
All of these things broadenour perspective
and understandingand allow us to see connections right.
(19:00):
Reveal like openings, help us shape
keys to unlock solutions. So
I think that that is what is the most
you know,
why this is like the most human centeredendeavor,
(19:21):
right,is because we are developing the capacity
as human beings to be faced
with issues or problemsand devise solutions to create solutions,
and they will take all differentshapes and sizes,
and we can be presentedwith the same problem.
(19:41):
And in a classroom of 25,people come up with massive amount
of solutions for a particular problembased upon the experiences
that we've had, the courseworkthat we, you know,
delved into different frameworksthat we've been given,
or that we explored in different classes,our own positionality.
(20:03):
Right.
And, and the experiencesthat are associated with that,
all of that colors our understanding of
how we're going to see somethingand then how we might tackle it right.
And soI think that that's really important
to be presented with a challengeand to not despair,
to be able to be in conversationor community with other people
(20:25):
if necessary,to try to figure out, solutions.
And I think that that is the biggest, benefit, right?
For me,when we think about a liberal education
and that everybody needs it,
whether you're going to go
into the business college, whether you'rein computing or engineering, right.
(20:46):
How do you transfer knowledge?
How are you able to translate,you know, the things
that you're learning so that you're movingfrom theory to practice.
And it is a benefit of yourselfand other folks.
Right.
And a liberal educationgives you the tools to be able to do that.
You know, people talk about soft skills,
and I just do not like the termsoft skills.
(21:09):
I mean, these are fundamental skills.
They are the building blocksfor everything else.
Right?
And thoseare those are things that you develop,
through, a liberal education.
I cannot agree more.
I think, I, I describe thisto a lot of people in my life
(21:30):
where, I'm not among a lot of collegeeducated people.
I'm among a lot of,like, life educated people.
And so I have figured out that,
there's a particular wayI like to describe my experience
with college, and a lot ofit has to do with the fact that I have,
(21:52):
a bachelor's degree that I feel likeis my sort of liberal arts degree.
And then I have a master's degreethat I feel like
is more of my professional degree.
It's the one that's more deeply connectedto the work I do every day.
And that sort of like
practical, professional componentto my education is what made me feel
(22:13):
like I belongedin this professional world.
So if I hadif I had gotten my bachelor's degree in,
like hospitality and tourism management,I think those classes that
I would have taken related to that fieldwould make me feel like I belong there.
And then the liberal arts kinds of classesor the
(22:34):
the gen ed kind of classesare sort of like my English degree,
where it makes me feel likeI can participate in society.
It makes me feel likeI can relate to other people.
And like you said, I can solve problems.
I had to transfer that knowledgeinto lots of different practical settings
all the time, and the value
(22:57):
of feeling like I can meet a new person.
I can approach a new experience,and I'm either going to have the ability
to connect with this person,because maybe we've read the same book
now, or we've studiedthe same philosophy, or,
you know, they're a biologist,and I took a biology class that one time,
(23:18):
like, I can connect with them or it'sgoing to be some sort of experience where
now I have, critical thinking skills,you know, you know, things like that.
So it's like my liberal educationhelped me
be a person here in of this place.
And then my professional degreelet me feel like
(23:39):
I had an open door into an industry,and they both work together all the time
because I'm not just at work,I do other things as well.
So I feel like what you've done reallywell here in this conversation is sort of
lay out the fact that, holisticallyspeaking, we want our students
to feel professionally ready,but also like personally ready.
(24:03):
And it sounds to melike you, recognize the value
in, pursuing a professional goal,even if it's from start to finish.
And even if your degree looks exactly likethe job you're going to get afterwards.
We we value professional readiness,
but we also value human
development and skill developmentand exposure development.
(24:27):
That makes you a more rounded,whole person when you leave us.
So I think, that leads really wellactually
into the question we ask everyonewhen they're here on our podcast.
So, and our last few minutes together,if you could please
(24:48):
answer the question for me,what does connection mean to you?
Connection means to me.
Community,
in thinking about what you just spoke
out, spoke about and being able to
(25:08):
be a citizen of the world,that is what we're talking about.
Our professional identity is just onepart of who we are, right?
But we are a citizen of the world,
and that shows up in so many differentspaces, right?
And so connection for me
(25:29):
is about, community
thinking about, investing in community,
growing community, wherever I may be.
That we can take the, the term connection
(25:50):
and so many ways that, really,
fosters community and facilitates that.
Right.
And so
that's what we want
to foster in this kind of physical place.
Right?
Is community, is feeling a sense
(26:12):
of being a part of somethinggreater than myself.
Right.
And I do that through connection
with other folks.
That it is not just me.
Right.
Are there things that we want to solveand challenges before us?
We can do that in community, right?
(26:34):
We can find, rest
and rejuvenation in community.
Right.
And so those connectionsare extremely important
then for facilitatingthose kinds of things.
Right.
So a community can be anywhere,
(26:56):
that you are
that people congregate,right, in varying levels.
It does not always have to be active.
Again, it can be, a place of rest, right?
When we needthat kind of getting away from,
we can find it in community.
And so,
(27:17):
that is what comes to mind for me
when we talk about connections.
Well, that's beautiful.
And I feel like, you know,even if it's just the two of us
talking today,I feel like through our connection,
we sort of established our ownlittle mini community in this moment.
So I feel deeply connected
(27:38):
to your answer there,and I just really appreciate it.
It's been an absolute joylistening to you,
learning from you today,and I'm just so grateful.
Thank you for the invitation.
I feel to say that we have createda community in this moment.
Right.
And, and thank you for the invitation.
I, I've enjoyed this conversationand I think it is much, much needed.
(28:08):
Thank you for listening.
Our episode was hosted,written and engineered by Melanie
Rabine - Johnson, the academic resourcesand retention specialist
for the CECI Undergraduate Advising Officeat Grand Valley State University.
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