Ep 70: The waste journey, contamination and recycling

In this episode of the Challenge to Change podcast I talk to Jason Taylor from Alliance Environmental Services.  We chat about the waste journey, contamination and creative ways to reduce waste. #Upcycling #Repurposing #Refills #Contamination #WasteAndRecycling #Wishcycling #WasteJourney #Recycling

 

 

Episode Transcript

(00:10):
Hi there and welcome to theChallenge to Change podcast.
My name is Hazel and thispodcast is all about the
little changes we can all makethat will have a positive
effect upon planet Earth. Ifyou're new here, welcome. If
you've listened before,welcome back. The Challenge to

(00:33):
Change podcast has beenbrought to you on behalf of
ANSA Environmental Services.To find out more about ANSA,
please visit ANSA.co.uk. Let'sget into the podcast episode.
So welcome to this episode ofthe Challenge to Change

(00:54):
podcast. I am talking to JasonTaylor, who is from Alliance
Environmental Services, whichis Ansa's sister company. So
hello, Jason, how are you? I'mfine, thanks. Thanks for
having me. Good, good, good,good. So we've been chatting
actually, haven't we? Beforewe started recording the

(01:17):
podcast, we've been chattingabout various different things
to do with waste andrecycling. And we actually got
into discussing contamination,which is something that I've
talked about on the Challengeto Change podcast before. So
with that in mind, Jason, whatkinds of things are you
finding within Within theareas that you cover, what

(01:42):
kind of contamination iscoming up for you guys?
Thanks. Yeah, I mean, it's notthe most interesting subject.
No, but we can make itinteresting. We'll make it
interesting, hopefully. Yeah,we've had since taken this
role as engagement officer forabout two years now, one of

(02:04):
the priorities was to try andreduce contamination our
recycling bins and then justto remind people we, Alliance
Environmental Services,operate the waste collections
in two council areas. So weoperate in the High Peak in
Derbyshire and alsoStaffordshire Mall in
Staffordshire. So we do havethe two, one's borough, one's

(02:28):
a district council, but we dohave the problem of the
different bin types, but thesame three bins are in
operation. So obviously wehave general waste, a mixed
recycling bin, and a food andgarden bin so we don't
currently have a gardensubscription so it's that

(02:49):
standard but just the coloursare different that we have to
remember so we do have to havetwo different types of leaflet
and a lot of the printedmaterials have to be doubled
up as it were. We came intoour roles, I share the role
with Marissa Wilkinson who'smore on the communication

(03:09):
side. But we had the challengeof trying to launch a new
campaign of reducingcontaminations in the
recycling bin to get the rightstuff. The stuff that we want
in there basically. Yeah, sowe looked around the country
and saw what the councils weredoing and how they're tackling

(03:31):
it and I think I looked atsome We were looking at
redoing the system where thecrew would check the bins on
collection day and they'resupposed to just have a little
look in the top to see if it'sgot the right stuff and if it
hasn't got the right stuffthen if it's got general waste
or backed waste they used toput a sticker on the bin and

(03:55):
then they would have to get apen and actually write on what
the wrong thing was.Where they had a tag that
would hang off the bin.Sometimes it's plastic and
tied on and said we can'tempty your bin, please remove

(04:15):
what the offending item oritems and then we'll come back
next time kind of thing. So wethought actually if we go to
the tag system then that wouldbe easy for the crew wouldn't
have to use a get out a pen aswell and rip off a sticker. So
the tag we went with It was acardboard tag as well so it

(04:39):
can be recycled as well. Sowe piloted that and it worked
really well actually. Thecrews were able to do the
system for them. It became aneasier system and then
obviously the tank systemallowed them to carry on as it

(05:00):
were and keep Keep it goingbecause we made it easier for
them. So we were reallypleased with that. So we're
rolling it out for the foodand garden bin now as well. So
that's a different tag. So onthe tag it has pictures of all
the items that the offendingitem might be. So one of these

(05:24):
items might have been in yourbin. But if there is a code on
the tag and they can scan thecode they can They can log in
on the website and actuallyfind out what the item was
that was wrong. That shouldn'thave been in there, yeah.
Yeah, if they didn't knowalready. Why do you think
then, Jason, why do you thinkpeople do put the wrong things

(05:45):
in the bin? Do we think it'sbecause they just, you know,
they don't know or they justsort of, you know, are they in
a hurry? Why do we think ithappens? There is a psychology
into it, isn't there? I thinkthere is different reasons. I

(06:05):
know for myself in my previousrole as a recycling officer, I
used to visit people when thishappened. So we used to have
more time when we didn't haveas many logged contaminations
where I would visit, knock onthe doors and say, did you
know you had the wrong thingsin your bin? Can I help? So
actually going out and talkingto people was the best way But

(06:30):
it's time consuming, it wasthe best way to find it out
and resolving the issues. Sosometimes I'd find that it was
someone who'd moved into adifferent area and got
confused with the bin colours.So when I've been talking to
people at events here inCheshire East, you know, that
is one of the things that willcome up where people will,
they've moved into the area.So a different area has, you

(06:51):
know, different bins,different systems in place,
you know, for recycling and soon. So there is that, you
know, they don't know how it'sdone here on the same,
obviously for yourself and theStaffordshire Moorlands and in
Derbyshire, you know, peopleYou know, people do move
around, they don't stay in oneplace and there are those
differences. So that does makeit difficult for people. I

(07:12):
mean, maybe who knows in thefuture, maybe there will be
sort of a more kind ofholistic system for the whole
of the UK. I mean, we don'tknow what will happen in the
future, but maybe that willhappen and that will obviously
ease things in that regard. Soyeah, I think you're right. I
think that's definitely one ofthe reasons why people do put

(07:32):
the wrong thing in the bin andmaybe in other cases they're
just, They just, you know,they're just unsure for some
other reason, you know, maybethey're in a rush or maybe,
you know, maybe they just, Ithink one of the things that
again has come up for merecently is that people that
wish cycling, where peoplewant whatever item they've

(07:52):
got, they want it to berecycled. They think it can be
recycled. So they put it intheir recycling bin, but it
transpires that, you know,maybe it's a coat, maybe it's
a jumper and yeah, they can goon. And be recycled, but they
can't be recycled through yourcurbside collection service,
you know, or certainly not inour area. And I think it would

(08:15):
be the same for yours. So Ithink that's the case as well,
isn't it? Where people are so,they're so keen to recycle.
They're just, let's, let's popit in. We'll put it in there.
So it's that, it's like ahope. So hope that it will get
recycled, but yeah. So when wedid this leaflet, the new

(08:37):
leaflet, we again we set bestpractice things and look
around the country whatleaflets they're doing and a
popular one is the yes pleaseand no thanks. Yeah. So it's
please all things areacceptable and then no thanks,
you're listing things thatObviously you're finding in
the bin and then it's makingit plainly that things are

(08:59):
things we don't want. So itseems counterintuitive. We
have got quite a big list ofthings that we don't want, but
then people can kind of checkthem off quite quickly. So I
think it's handy. So you mightthink, can a crisp packet be
recycled? I'm not sure. Butthen you can straight away,
you've got it stuck on yourfridge or handy. You can see

(09:21):
it is in the list of things wedon't want. Alongside polished
styrene, toothpaste tubes,black plastic, and the soft
plastics like plastic bags andfood coverings, things like
vegetables as well. But interms of what are the other
reasons why people might beputting things in, you're

(09:41):
right about it's a hit andhope, I'll throw that in as
well and hope it will berecycled. Because they don't
understand the process and Ithink that's the thing, it's
like communicating. Theprocess is, it will end up
being classless contaminating.And maybe this was the case
for myself before I worked inthis industry, where you put

(10:06):
it in the bin, it's gone. Soyou've forgotten about it
then. It's in the bin, it'skind of almost, mentally
you've moved on from that. AndI think that's fair enough.
We're not expecting people tobe constantly thinking about
waste and recycling like wedo. In our jobs, but once
you've put it in the bin, ithasn't gone. You know, it's

(10:27):
then going to be collected bywaste and recycling crews.
Then it's going to go over tothe transfer station. There's
going to be some processingthat takes place there and
then it's going to go onto itsnext stage. So, you know, that
could be the recycling plantif it's recycling. And
obviously here in CheshireEast, black bin waste goes to
energy from waste orSo it's journey doesn't end

(10:54):
there, it keeps going so it'ssort of like making sure that
that ongoing journey isstreamlined really, that it's
correct so that does kind ofreduce some of that cost but
also that time for thosemembers of staff. That, you
know, if we're thinking aboutthe transfer station and I've

(11:15):
seen it very much kind offirst hand recently, you know,
when I've been talking to thestaff who work in the transfer
station and they're there andthey're, you know, diligently,
you know, as far as they canthat, you know, they're taking
things out of the recyclers aswe call it. That shouldn't be
there, but it's a mammoth taskand they're not going to be

(11:37):
able to capture it all. But itmust be quite, I always think
it must be so dishearteningfor them because obviously,
you know, I was going to saydepressing, but you're right.
It's disheartening is the wordisn't it? Shoveling this
around when it's been dropped,because that's the thing that
people don't realize. I thinkall those wagons that come in

(11:58):
every day, to the station haveto tip it out first. It can't
just be tipped out onto aconveyor belt and get sorted,
can it? So there's thisintermediary.

(12:32):
We go once around the corneras well. You can see straight
away, you can have visual lookand go, wait a minute, I can
see so many things that haveall been tipped over that
shouldn't be in this big pile.I say you've started taking
photographs of those areas. Ithink they're going to be
really handy to get. Thatmessage across to people, just

(12:55):
look at all the stuff thatshouldn't be in this. All the
stuff that shouldn't be thereand I think it is, it's a mam
of task and I do, as I say, Ido feel a great sense of kind
of empathy really for thosestaff that work in the
transfer station in particularbut also the recycling, you
know, also it's ongoingjourney as well but I think,

(13:16):
you know, for us And I thinkit'll be the same for yourself
at Alliance EnvironmentalServices. We've got that
relationship with thosemembers of staff and they're
there just every day. Andyeah, it is their job to do
that, but wouldn't it bewonderful if that
contamination figure was justdramatically reduced? I mean,

(13:36):
perhaps it's never going to bezero, but wouldn't it be great
if If their job was just madethat much easier and they can
actually really kind of seethat difference where people
aren't putting toasters intotheir recycling bin or
batteries or all of thesethings that just absolutely
shouldn't go in there. I thinkwe've all been

(14:02):
guilty of that in terms ofwhat can we end up with? What
can we get away with puttingin our bins? I think whether
it's a general way ofspending, what do you think?
Can I sneak a pen and tin in,which really shouldn't be
going in to your bin. Youshould be taking that to the
household recycling sites, youknow. So sometimes there is
those large items. Can I sneakit in the bin? Can I put it in

(14:25):
a bag? But then, again, butthen that's different from the
recycling bin. You know,people, again, using that
mentality. Can I get away withdoing this? Whereas, I say, if
we communicate more, All thesepeople throughout the journey
of that item is being seen bysomeone all the way along the

(14:47):
journey, isn't it? And it'sthat thing about it doesn't
turn into an invisible itemjust because it goes into your
bin. So I think if we get thatpoint across to people,
there's always going to bepeople that are not interested
as much as obviously as us inimproving recycling rates, but

(15:07):
it's going to make bigdifference. The more we get
and obviously less waste thatwe need to burn as well. Yeah,
and I think if you are goingto recycle, if you're making
that effort to recycle, youmay as well do your best. And
I'm sure most residents do dotheir best to get it right.

(15:29):
And I think they do. I thinkmost people that recycle, they
do want to get it right. So Ithink that is definitely the
case. But if you're going torecycle, you may as well You
may as well just try andrecycle the right things
because it's not just a bin,it's a recycling bin, so
therefore the stuff that goesin there has to be recyclable,

(15:50):
but not just recyclable, ithas to be recycled through
that curbside process and itdoes mean we can't take
everything, we can't takepeople's clothes, we can't
take, I don't know, It hasto be the correct stuff
because there can't be asystem in place to go on and

(16:15):
deal with these things as wellbecause it doesn't exist. So
it makes sense I think.There's lots of alternatives
but sometimes it's harder forpeople if you haven't got a
vehicle getting those largeitems to a household waste
recycling site. Our tip, itbecomes harder. We do offer a

(16:37):
bulky collection service, butthat again is a paired service
that we can come and takelarger items away. That's the
same here in Cheshire East. Itis a service that you pay for.
I think even with that, I knowwhat you're saying there most
definitely, but I think evenwith that, so let's say I have

(16:57):
a sofa that I no longer want,And I want to buy myself a new
sofa, so I want to get rid ofthe old sofa. So the sofa that
I'm sitting on right now as Italk to you, that sofa could
be collected by a charity. Sothere are charities that will
collect that sofa and thenthey will sell it in their
particular charity shop. Notall of them offer it, but

(17:21):
there are charities that offerit. So in that case, it would
be collected for free. Butyou're right, if that isn't an
option, let's say the sofa isdamaged, it's not saleable, we
can't do it in that way.Assuming we can't give it away
on a community recyclinggroup, because again, that
still might be an option, evenif it's damaged, sometimes
people will take it and maybethey'll put a throw over it or

(17:44):
something like that. So ifthat's not an option, then you
have got that kind of thirdoption, if you like, of paying
for it to be collected. Sothere's possibilities out
there. I mean, I don't thinkpeople probably don't usually
try and put their sofa intheir recycling bin. I don't
think we've ever had that. Ithasn't been noted at some of

(18:06):
the communal sites where it'sonce moving out from a flat in
a large community. metalcommunal bins. Of course, for
those ones that's a good pointactually. Yes, we have seen
that too actually. I haveseen what weird and wonderful

(18:26):
things that they put in thelarger bins. You're absolutely
right and you've just remindedme that we also do have that
here in Cheshire East as well.I was thinking more the
smaller bins but you're rightin the great big sort of euro
bins that is something thatdoes happen and again you know
You know, obviously it'sdifficult, you're moving
house, you've got lots to do,but if we all, I suppose, as

(18:50):
far as we can as people, if wetry and sort do our best to
deal with things in the bestway, not just for ourselves,
but for other people and forthe planet, then, you know,
it's kind of all good then,isn't it? It's better.
Definitely better. Yeah,definitely. I think most
people do what I like, just topick up on the thing about

(19:14):
Maybe hope that something'sbeen recycled. And I think
sometimes people are maybethinking, oh, I'll put it in
the recycling bin because I'mnot sure. Because I don't
really want to put it ingeneral waste because I know
that definitely won't berecycled. But I think people
probably need to use thereminder, say, if in doubt,
put it out. Literally, if youdon't think it'll be recycled,

(19:37):
then it's probably best to putit in your general waste bin
because you don't want to getto the point where it is If
you do have doubts, thentechnically all your recycling
can go into your general wastebin. Technically it can.
Obviously there are somethings that we don't want in
any bin like batteries,electrical items, gas

(20:02):
canisters. We don't want thosein any bins, but you're right
in a general sense. Yeah,that's true. Because if it
happened that, like I said,there's a procedure of if you
keep contaminating yourrecycling bin, you might lose
that recycling bin because wecan't keep collecting it. Then
if you don't have a recyclingbin, then yes, you can just

(20:25):
keep putting the same stuff inthe other bin, as it were,
even though sometimes we tryand say to schools, you know,
it's got non recyclable wastegoes in this bin. To try and
make the difference. Todifferentiate, yeah. Because
now, it's the only thing thatare recyclables. There should

(20:47):
be hardly anything going inthe general waste bin except
maybe some, maybe notprocessing soft plastics at
supermarkets. A lot of it ispackaging that can't be
recycled in your general wastebin or just things from your
house. If we're just talkingabout our daily lives of
eating, making food, then alot of it will be just

(21:11):
non-recyclable items. Yeah,definitely. And I think as
well, when we're thinkingabout contamination, one of
the things I feel people cando, and I would love it on
personal level, certainly,more people did this, where
we're just really thinkingabout reducing our waste. And
we're not reducing our wasteto make it easier. We're not
doingTo reduce our waste because we

(21:51):
all live here, we all want tolive on a beautiful planet. We
want to keep it healthy andsafe for everybody to live on.
So if we reduce our waste inthe first instance, that's
going to go a really long wayto help us do that. I feel
like if that was thefoundation of what we were

(22:11):
doing as individuals, thenIt's just better all round,
really. I suppose the otherinvisible thing that we don't
know, most people don't know,is all those things that are
in that bin that can berecycled are being made into
new things. But we don't seethat either, do we? We don't

(22:34):
see that ongoing process.Sometimes we take it on first,
don't we? All these thingsthat are coming back around
again. I don't know if thesethings I've been recycled from
glass bottles or cans orplastic tubs. Has it been
recycled? There's a symbol,there's lots of symbols on

(22:55):
packaging and we talk when wevisit schools, we try and
simplify it for children. Thisis the one you need to look
out for. It's the swoosh withthe hat on and when it's
widely recycled, that'll bethe one that can go in your
recycling bin. So we try andsimplify it, but there is lots
of different symbols. And someof the symbols on them say

(23:16):
this product has beenrecycled. So there's the
recyclable arrows on therethat say that, you know,
there's lots of others thatare saying it comes from
different sources. But yeah,the main one is looking for
that. The name of the meetingassistant is

(23:51):
You pop it in your recyclingbin. You don't see what
happens to that plastic bottleafterwards. So I, yeah, I
know, I know what you'resaying. I think, I think for
me, again, as an individual, Iuse a local refill shop. Yeah,
me too. Do you? Wonderful. AndI think when you do that, you

(24:13):
kind of, it does make you feela little bit closer to that
process. I mean, in the senseof, you know, you've got your,
you know, I don't know, let'ssay it's a jar of herbs or
something. So you go alongwith your glass jar of herbs,
you refill it up. So you cansee it then, because you're
sort of like, you're takingthat same jar of herbs

(24:36):
backwards and forwards. I knowthat this has been used again.
You are in control of that,but as soon as you
Give over your things, you'rejust going to have to take on
trust and support us is whateveryone does. So in the same

(24:58):
way we might put the wrongthings and hope they'll be
recycled, we're still hopingthat all of it's recycled
because we don't really know.Oh this bin that's all mixed
up that's got your bottles andyour cans and your cardboard
and your tubs, how is thatbeing sorted? They just assume
because it looks all mixed up.How can they recycle it? And
then, obviously, you canexplain why it goes to a

(25:20):
sourcing centre and by magnetsand sorting and scanners and
real people, it's all beingsorted into their correct
materials. Actual humanpeople. Yeah, and when we go
to school we show a video ofthe process of real people
holding up things thatshouldn't be in there, like

(25:41):
things like nappies that haveended up going into the
recycling bins and they'reabout to be removed by hand.
So that's one thing we turnacross to the children and to
adults as well, these realpeople that can be sought in
this way as well as all thetechnology that they use now.

(26:02):
Absolutely. Is it calledcommingled, you know, when all
the recycling is in the water?Sometimes I can mean, yeah,
there is a... Is that theofficial term? Yes, it is
commingled, you're right, itis commingled. It's all mixed
up. Some authorities willstill have a separate
collection for eithercardboard or paper. Some will
have a separate collection.Like we used to, we used to

(26:24):
have separate bottles and cansin a box and then the When
they choose the providers thatwill sort the waste, that
obviously then impacts on whatour doorsteps will look like
in terms of the sorting of thebins. You can go two ways and

(26:45):
obviously a lot ofScandinavian countries, the
sorting goes in at home. Sosome countries use like a bag
system where it's alldifferent coloured bags up to
five or six different colouredbags and they put the right
waste in each coloured bag andthen all those bags are put
out and then the bags getsorted because it's easy for

(27:09):
companies to sort them becauseit's been sorted at home as it
were. So they're like minisorting centres in the kitchen
or whatnot. We've chosen to goto the system of commingled or
mixed and then you have to putup with some contamination
because some people are goingto put the wrong thing in. You

(27:35):
might get more recycling atthe end of it, commingling it,
I think that's the theory.Right, right. Hang on.
Depending on how your publicare going to be, and maybe you
might say that people inScandinavia are more
enthusiastic about recycling.I'm not sure. We've just

(27:57):
started doing it. Othercountries have been
legislating for recyclinglonger than we have in some
ways. That's true. We thoughtthat our society might cope
better with Kurt Mengel ratherthan having to sort everything
out. Do you think anythingsort of more kind of

(28:18):
environmentalism or Beingfocused on the environment, it
probably is kind of a culturalthing. And I again, you know,
again, this is on a personallevel, I would like to see
more zero waste shops. I'dlike to see more of that
happening in, you know, hereand not just in our areas that

(28:39):
we work in, but justthroughout the whole of the UK
and for, well, the whole ofthe planet, you know, because
every part of the planetcounts. So I think that, I
think if, The more that we canreduce our waste, the more
that we can focus on refillingand repurposing and buying

(29:01):
secondhand, pre-loved, thatkind of thing. The more that
we can do that, the better offeverybody will be. And then
that will, of course, bydefinition, make contamination
in the recycling reduce aswell because more people will
be reducing their waste. Soeveryone will benefit. There's
a weird thing, isn't it,because we still have reduce,

(29:23):
reuse, recycle, but in someways we need to reduce
everything, don't we? We needto not say stop buying, but
just be thinking about whatwe're buying is the thing,
isn't it, and how much we'rebuying because we are kind of
like shopping online so muchnow and that produces more

(29:43):
waste. It does. Yeah, that'strue. If we shop locally and
refill things, then we aregoing to reduce that quite
dramatically if we can startto reuse containers and just
refill them more. Yeah,definitely. We'll definitely
be better. But it's, it seemsthat I think that the

(30:03):
frustrating thing at themoment, last few years, and
obviously what the country hasbeen through pandemic has
impacted the recycling rates,and they have kind of
stagnated around You know,40-50% across the country.
Some people think, is there amaximum? Can you get more than

(30:23):
recycling? You know, is thatis that possible? But another
thing should be, we should betrying to reduce the amount of
things all together that we'reputting in our bins. But if
anything, you know, but justin a personal point of view, I
mean, my career as a designer,I did start out Using a lot of

(30:48):
waste items in my productsbecause it was a free
material. So I loved thechallenge of messing about
with tin cans and makingthings with them and I've
still got a lot of thosethings that I take into skills
to show off things I've madefrom waste items. So I've

(31:10):
always used that in a way ofsending a message to look what
I've You can make something,but if you don't, you can
still see, you might thinkdifferently when you come to
recycle it. You'rerepurposing then, aren't you?
Well, you're repurposing orupcycling, I suppose, as if

(31:32):
you've turned, I don't know.It's more upcycling than reuse
because I'm not reusing thesame thing. Although it's
being reused in another way,I'm not refilling it. I'm
turning it into another item.I think the official

(31:56):
description of upcycling iswhen you transform an item
into another item of a greatervalue, which I think is
usually monetary, but I guessit could be. So if you're
turning a tin can into a potfor your pens. Or a candle
holder. Yes, I knowyou've done clocks. I was

(32:20):
talking to Marissa a few weeksback here on the Challenge to
Change podcast and we talkedabout the clocks that you've
taken into schools. I thinkyou were working with the
children and you were makingclocks together, I believe,
which is awesome. Yeah. It'sreally good. Yeah, no, it's
funny. I think, like I said,it can be a bit boring having

(32:44):
to sustain the I repeat a lotof these messages over and
over again to the public,isn't it? And then you try and
do them in different ways.Yeah. To try and make it more
interesting. Yeah, definitely.Yeah, and I think for me, like
I say, because of the creativeside of my work, it's nice to
be able to bring that into itbecause you can do a bit of

(33:06):
both then as well. You know,you can make it fun. But also,
like I say, Because of mydesign background, I mean,
design is about adding valueto things, whether that's a
lump of clay or into a pot,but you're adding value

(33:26):
through design. You can do thesame with a tin can as well.
If we can do that more, thenobviously we're keeping it out
of the waste stream forlonger. That's the idea, isn't
it? If something gets madeinto something, if that can

(33:48):
stay kind of, not aboveground, but you know what I
mean, if that stays in use forlonger, then the investment in
the making of it has then, youknow, a more of a legacy,
hasn't it? Because obviously,when it can, it can go back
into the system. But there'senergy there, you know, it's

(34:12):
Not a free thing, it does takeenergy to recycle. It does, it
does. Some things are morecostly than others to recycle,
so a glass bottle obviouslycan be recycled, but obviously
the temperature that thatneeds to be melted down, that
takes energy. A tin can Ourdrinks can is actually cheaper

(34:35):
to recycle than a glassbottle. So if people want to
make those choices of should Ibuy a glass bottle, then
actually the can would be thebetter choice to buy if you're
thinking about when it comesto recycling it. So there's
choices to be made there, evenif the bottle, even though

(34:56):
they can both be recycled. Sothe plastic bottle, the tin
can, It's a plastic can orbottle and it's all got the
same liquid in, as it were,then the best one to go with
would be, I'm pretty sure, isthe can. That's interesting. I
must admit I do do that on apersonal level, so if I very

(35:16):
rarely drink pop but On theoccasions that I do, where
there's an option, I wouldchoose a can of pop over
plastic bottle. And you cansee that, you can just look
around the supermarket, youcan see yourself, why have
they all gone to cans? Well,because it's cheaper for them
to put it in a can becauseit's cheaper to make. So

(35:39):
therefore, if it's cheaper tomake the can, Yeah. I mean,
there's, I suppose as forpeople, I guess sometimes a
bottle might be moreconvenient because you might
not want to drink it all thereand then. So you might want to
have some later, but this is,you know, this is why again,
if you're thinking aboutrefilling, if we take our

(36:01):
refillable water bottle withus, I mean, maybe, maybe we
put, maybe we put some,Whatever particular pop takes
your fancy, maybe we put thatin our bottle and then we
recycle the can, we rinse itout, recycle it, bring it
home, recycle it. I think itis sad, yeah. I mean, I've
made it quite straight. I'vemade it simple, but in

(36:22):
reality, the larger bottles ofpop, you don't get massive
bottles of cans, this. Youdon't get big cans, no, that's
not something that we see. No,so I know, obviously, I've got
teenagers, so they would liketheir big bottle pop. I
always make that as an exampleactually at schools when

(36:44):
you've got your big bottle ofpop make sure you squash it
down and then put the lid backon and then it stays squashed
and at least saves some roomin the bin as well if you
squash your bottles down. Yeahand I think for people it's
sometimes it's a juggling actisn't it so it's sort of like
perhaps we can't always do Themost pure ethical thing.

(37:10):
Sometimes we might have tocompromise. Certainly that's
what I do when I, you know, Ido really care about the
planet. You know, obviously Italk about it a lot on the
Challenge to Change podcast,but it is something that I do
in my personal life. It reallymatters to me, but sometimes
you do have to think, well,you know, Sometimes you've got

(37:32):
to kind of go, well, okay,well, I will buy that kind of
pop because my child wantsthat kind of pop, let's say,
for example. Yeah. And, youknow, there are some things
that I kind of don'tcompromise on, you know, I'm
vegetarian, so I don'tsuddenly go, oh, I'll just
have a chicken sandwich. It'llbe okay. But that's a, you

(37:54):
know, that's a personal choicethat I make, but. You know,
but again, it's just, yeah, inlife it's just kind of
juggling between, I thinkanyway, juggling between
ethics, but sometimes you'realso weaving in the cost, as
in the financial cost, thetime cost. So there's other
things to kind of weave in. SoI suppose really it's just

(38:18):
doing our best, isn't it? Butyeah, it's just getting the
message out there, isn't it?You know, in terms of keeping
it positive and... But yeah,no, definitely, definitely.
Did you want to say anythingmore about the kind of
creative projects that you'vebeen working on recently?

(38:38):
We've done a spread ofengagements from schools to
well-dressing, which issomething that's popular in
Stashmoreland and Derbyshirewhere they have community days
and we'll tend to have astall, a community stall. We
had one at the Rotary Bazaarcharity event at Buxton. That

(39:00):
was a really good event. It'sinteresting with the different
types of groups in terms ofthem being more... I do find
them all with really positiveexperiences and we can hand
out freebies as well so we dohave a series of items that we
can encourage people to use.Less food waste as well. Rice

(39:22):
scoops that will just give youa serving of rice to help not
cook as much rice, but givingout compostable bags as well
for food caddies that arealways really popular. Do you
have the spaghetti measurers?Do you give those out at your
rates? People don't cookspaghetti, which they're
probably used to, I don'tthink. The rice scoops went

(39:45):
down a storm at Bucks. Thoseones did, but anything...
Yeah, we have some games kidsas well. Yeah, they're always
good, aren't they? I thinkwhen we talk about waste and
recycling, it can be quite adry, uninteresting message
sometimes, so where we cankind of bring interactivity

(40:08):
and fun into that message isso helpful, isn't it?
Especially with children, butalso talking to adults as
well, think, to try and makeit more interesting. But also,
I'm sure most peopleappreciate a freebie. Freebies
always go down well for thepublic, I think. Yeah, yeah.
Of course. We've got somewildflower seeds that we've

(40:29):
had branded up that go downquite well as well. But not
great. I mean, yeah, I dostill... What was the last
thing you made? I can't thinknow. It will come to you? It
will. I've repurposed so manydifferent things, but I didn't
want to actually build a moreof an interesting display.

(40:51):
Again, I was probably nickedoff somewhere else. I had to
think at another event,actually. You know, almost
like a display that will foldout more. I think I'd start
one with bike wheels that youcan kind of fold out and add
all your kind of informationon. So it's It's a bit more

(41:11):
interesting just having anormal table and gazebo. But
we are just about to receive akind of roadshow kit that will
be great to have on the stand.So it comes with a beanbag
game where you have eachbeanbag has the item It's

(41:33):
printed on it so if it's ayogurt pot or whatnot and then
you throw it in through thehole of the right bin so the
bins are all printed up on abanner and they've got the
hole ready to throw the binback through. So that's like a
sorting game. We've done thosewith laminated things, but

(41:56):
they're not as fun, but thatshould be fun. The other one
is a little mini conveyorbelt, so that's like a mini
sourcing centre. So you turnthe handle and the conveyor
belt will move, so you'll beable to put all the waste
items on the mini conveyorbelt and then turn it. And
then kids' grown-ups will beable to start what comes off

(42:18):
the conveyor belt into theboxes. So that's the same
thing as what happens at asourcing centre. Each material
sorted and baled up into thosegiant cubes ready to be sold
to people who recycle thosematerials. So that's, that's
fun. And then what's the lastone? The last one is a see
through bit, which we've seenbefore, which is a transparent

(42:41):
recycle bit. So you can see,you can see through the items.
Yeah, I think there's got a,think it's got a A screen in
the lid, it's got a video soyou can play the video as
well. I'm hoping to receivethat in the next couple of
weeks, so that'll be quite anight. That'll be great at
community. Yeah, and it's alsoI think that attracts people

(43:02):
over to your stand toobviously then to have a
conversation, otherwise you'rekind of like... Shouting
people that go past. If youneed any help, I'll talk about
bins. But they're really goodcommunity events because then
you can get more bookings forother talks and visits. People
are there who represent eitherscout groups or, like I said,

(43:22):
they might be a schoolteacher. It's a good way of
making more bookings as wellfor communities. It kind of
feeds itself. That's reallygood, it's a positive outlook
on the community side ofthings, but yeah, we're just
hopefully pushing ourrecycling rates a bit higher

(43:47):
than they are. Yeah, wellthat's always good, pushing
the recycling rates higher andreducing contamination as
well, of course. I know, it'snot as glamorous as it is,
It's like when you talkabout... I was interested in a
generational thing I find aswell, just to finish up with

(44:08):
that. I know with my kids, Ithink when we talk to kids at
schools, because they're notmaybe the ones that will go
out to the bins or put thebins out. Sometimes we talk
about pesto power. So it'sthat idea that If you can make
it clear for the kids, thenthey can remind the grown-ups
and that's what we tell them.If we give them an activity

(44:31):
booklet, we'll say to them,please go work this through
with the grown-up and helpthem get better recycling. So
it's an idea. We're educatingthe next generation of
homeowners in a way, aren'twe? Because they're the ones
that can have their own setsbins and they might be better
than the last generation.Well, hopefully so. I'm

(44:55):
absolutely sure. I'mabsolutely sure they will. I'm
sure they will. I'm not sureif that's the case in our
household. I've not reallynoticed with my daughter that
she's, despite the fact thatI'm always talking about base,
I'm always talking aboutrecycling. She's heard me
recording the Challenge toChange podcast many, many

(45:16):
times. She still does seem tomanage to Put things in the
wrong kitchen bin. So then Ihave to sort it out. I have to
take it out of the wrong binand put it in the right one.
There's probably some movementwe could do and help people
with that side of things. Thesorting in the house is

(45:37):
different. No, I say it's notdifferent. It's like a mini
bin, isn't it? Whether you usea bag for life hooked up or a
big bag. That then we put thewaste in then obviously you
have to keep emptying it if itgets too full into the bin but
it's really you've got thatmini bin in your house already

(45:58):
haven't you so you get thatright it's going to be right
when you tip it in isn't it?It is yeah unless it's
obviously a lot you know aslightly slightly bigger thing
I've got I don't know if yousay you've got a massive
cardboard box I suppose thatwould go perhaps straight out
into your recycling bin butyeah if it's right in your
kitchen or your bathroom Youknow, your cloakroom or

(46:21):
whatever they call a toiletthat's not a bathroom. Is it
called a cloakroom? Orwherever you've got your bins,
basically. Wherever you've gotyour bins, if that's right,
then it's going to be rightpretty much, isn't it, when it
goes outside? Yeah, everyone'sgot it. They're all system,
aren't they? I was thinkingabout whether you could get A
bag for life printed, I'm sureprobably some counselors have

(46:44):
done this, where you couldhave a bag for life printed
with the items that go in yourrecycling bin. Yeah, maybe
some councils have, yeah. Wehave like actual physical bins
in our kitchen. They'reactually in the cupboard, sort
of on an angle, but we've onlygot the two. We've got

(47:06):
household, you know, residualwaste, as we call it in the
industry, or household bin, ifyou like. And then we've
got... I always say, what didthey call it in America? That
was always my thing when Isaid that. Oh, really? Whether
it's called trash or garbage.I think it's called trash.
Yeah, trash or garbage, I'mnot sure. Probably my daughter

(47:26):
would be more comfortable withAmerican terms, actually,
considering all the videosthat she watches. But maybe
she'd be more of anenthusiastic recycler. She'll
be more excited now if shelistens back to this one.
Yeah, yeah. To be honest, Ithink probably it's just
because maybe I talk about ita little bit too much so it

(47:47):
gets boring. I think perhapsthat's what it is. And she
knows that I'll sort it out,so she doesn't need to.
Anyway, that's a whole otherpodcast. Parenting. The joys
of parenting. Obviously, asever, it's been wonderful
talking to you today.Obviously, we've covered quite
a lot of ground in our timeduring this podcast episode.

(48:09):
So thank you so much, Jason,for your time. Very much
appreciate it. Welcome, it'sbeen great. Thank you so much
for listening to this episodeof the Challenge to Change
podcast and as you know I wastalking to Jason Taylor from
Alliance EnvironmentalServices. Do take the time to
like, share and subscribe andI will course check in with

(48:33):
another podcast episode reallysoon. Thanks for listening.
Bye.