December 5, 2023 • 30 mins
As international educators, we hold the belief that study abroad can be for all students. But for those with heavily structured majors, like STEM, fulfilling requirements abroad can present additional challenges. Join host Zac Macinnes for an empowering conversation with Susi Rachouh, Director of International Programs at Stevens Institute of Technology, around scaling STEM study abroad. Being strategic in recruitment, partnership, advising, and support can help to create pathways for all students’ study abroad journeys!
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(00:04):
The takeaway for the students in building theirsoft skills, which needs to be built out to
include things like flexibility, working withmultinational teams, tolerance for ambiguity,
all of those things that employers do value.And they're very important for someone with
technical training to get those more nuancedexperiences so that they are better able to
(00:27):
communicate with their peers. with their teamsand become the leaders of the STEM world. Hello,
everyone. Welcome to this episode of World StridesInaugural Podcast, Changing Lives through Education
Abroad, a weekly series of conversations withinternational education's most interesting
thought leaders, as well as discussions on emergingtrends, best practices, and innovation happening
(00:53):
in our field. I'm your host, Zach McInnis. SeniorDirector of Campus Partnerships with Worldstrides,
and I am so excited about this week's episode.Today, we're focusing on scaling study abroad
opportunities for STEM students, one of my veryfavorite topics. In today's rapidly evolving
global landscape, where science, technology,engineering, and mathematics are at the forefront
(01:18):
of innovation and progress, the role of internationalexperiences for STEM students has never been
more significant. According to the Institutefor International Education, roughly one quarter
of study abroad participants are from the STEMfields. STEM students represent more of the
study abroad population than any other academicarea, more than business and management, more
(01:42):
than humanities, and more than social sciences.In today's episode, we'll delve into the many
reasons why studying abroad can be a game changerfor students in the STEM fields and how practitioners
at institutions of all shapes and sizes shouldthink about education abroad for their science,
technology, engineering, and mathematics students.I am thrilled to welcome a dear friend and
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distinguished guest onto the podcast. The Directorof International Programs at Stevens Institute
of Technology in beautiful Hoboken, New Jersey,Suzy Raschow has dedicated nearly 30 years
to advancing global education initiatives. She'sthe driving force behind making study abroad
integral part of the global education are theacademic culture at Stevens. We love Susie.
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I can't wait for this conversation today. Staytuned and sit back, dear listeners, as this
is sure to be a captivating conversation. SusieRaschou, thank you for being here and welcome.
Thank you. Thank you for inviting me. To begin,I'd like to ask you to introduce yourself and
give us a brief overview of your career andyour current role at Stevens. And if you could,
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share with us a bit about the education abroadecosystem at Stevens Institute of Technology.
Certainly. So I have been an international educatorsince I completed my on-campus portion of my
master's degree at the School for InternationalTraining in Intercultural Management in 1986.
So it's so hard to believe that it's been thatlong, as I'm still in touch with many of my
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former students from those early days at NewEngland College in Arendelle, England. I also
worked at their New Hampshire campus of NewEngland College. before moving on. And it seemed
like a lot of my jobs were in six year rotations.And so I moved on to other campuses, including
the University of Wyoming, which was actuallya short stint, and then Crate University, Ramapo
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College, Bridgewater State, which is where Imet Zach, and also in Massachusetts, and then
Long Island University's Global College campus.And then I... found out about this amazing
opportunity at Stevens Institute of Technologyto open their first Office of International
Programs. And I will be here 10 years in March.Happy Stevens' anniversary, Susie. Thank you.
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We know that at Stevens Institute of Technology,STEM reigns supreme. Yet despite the numbers,
when we think about study abroad, STEM isn'talways the first thing that comes to mind.
But in the words of one of your students atStevens, study abroad is a thing. here at Stevens.
How are you doing this? How are you drivingforward, studying abroad as such a STEM focused
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institution? All right, well, it has certainlybeen a journey because when I arrived at Stevens,
we had mostly probably 75 to 80% of the studentswere going on faculty led programs. And with
small numbers, and even those were strugglingmany of them, over time I was able to make
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some changes. And we have grown to at the heightof our numbers, was right before the pandemic,
and we were at 190 and we were approaching 250,which is the overall goal. One of the things
that I've been able to do is really emphasizeto students the importance of saving their
humanities and general elective courses andto have some flexibility if they go abroad
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for a semester and also to be able to sign upfor summer or J-term programs. This is something
that I've... been doing in my ulterior motivealso was number one, to get more students abroad,
but also to help them think critically aboutthe world through a new lens, not just an American
one, and not only about STEM, you know, broadentheir reach by having courses that were not
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just about STEM to influence their backgroundmore, help them to understand cultures better
and understand things like being comfortabletheir uncomfortableness and tolerating ambiguity.
When international education is inherent inthe institutional makeup of a university, that
usually means there's support from the verytop. What does that look like at Stevens? Well,
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at Stevens, it indeed does stop at the verytop, start at the very top. So our president,
Naremin Favardin, was born and raised in Iran,and he really is truly a Renaissance man and
has been an inspirational leader. But in additionto the president, I also have support from
the vice provost, David Zeng, who is my directsupervisor, as well as Jianmin Q, who is our
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provost. So really, from the top down, thereis a lot of support in terms of encouraging
me to get more students to go abroad and encouragingme with things like getting brand new software.
So indeed, I do have broad support from campusleadership. as well as from many deans and
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other leaders on campus. You know, I often thinkabout how different education abroad looks
at Stevens today than it did 10 years ago whenyou started. So very impressive work, once
again, my friend, and all that you've accomplishedin that time. And I want to pick your brain
a little bit more. What are some of the uniquechallenges that STEM students face when planning
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for a study abroad experience? One of the uniquechallenges, of course, as many of you would
guess, is the curriculum. So the curriculumchallenges are pretty strong at Stevens still,
but I do have other champions across campus,the whole category of a study abroad champion,
which I know you've been talking about in thepodcast, and how we have that at Stevens in
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a variety of areas. The curriculum challengehas been met by giving students alternatives,
like if they're already so far into their degree,that they cannot possibly, like they're done
with their humanities, they're done with theirgeneral electives. They can't go abroad in
their junior year because their major may beunique, like biomedical engineering. It's very
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tough to find courses abroad in that area. Soit's better for them to go earlier. So one
of our exchanges, which is at Comillas-CuantificelUniversity, Universidad Comillas, and that
one is for any of the engineers. And I was ableto bring around several kind of naysayers who
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thought, you know, really had an old idea aboutstudy abroad, simply that it's something for
fun and for fluff, and you go off on jauntingaround, and nothing is very serious. And so
I was able to turn around sort of the overallapproach in some of the departments and win
folks over with programs that were at stellarengineering institutions like that area of
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that particular school, Icahi at Comillas. Sothings like that, finding other programs. So
basically curriculum matching, designing, studyabroad, choices for students. I'm not designing
the curriculum obviously, but choices. Studentswill come in and meet with me. I wanna go to
Italy and study such and such, biomedical engineering.And I'm like, that's not gonna happen. Let's,
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how about college Dublin? How about this? Howabout that exchange? Looking at all the factors.
So that's one of the big challenges, certainlyalso sequencing. Like do not go abroad when
you're a junior if you're a chemical engineeringmajor. It's going to be disastrous for you.
You need to go when you're a sophomore. Youknow, finding those right fits, that's a big
part of the unique challenges for STEM. Theremay be that they can only go to one university,
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which you wouldn't find really for almost anyother major, I don't think, right? So that's
some of the unique challenges. Also having justthose great champions who assist, Connie Ah,
who used to work in my office and was the studyabroad coordinator, has now spent half of her
time at Stevens in my office and half as anacademic advisor for computer science students.
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And she now encourages every student to eitherstudy abroad, do a virtual internship, do research
abroad. She encourages them to just take a generalelective or their technical electives. And
so that's also been a great help. And now havinga former study abroad student, an alum, who
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is the assistant director for curriculum inthe School of Engineering and Science. So those
are just a few takeaways that you can come upwith for that. Just a couple hacks to share.
Just a few. Thank you, Suzy. I wanna call outone of the things that you just mentioned because
I think it's so important. It is the way thatyou are empowering your students to have those
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conversations about curriculum themselves. withtheir advisors and their departments. Because
I often find that a student delivering a messagelike that could oftentimes be more powerful
than if it comes from someone like us. So canyou talk a little bit more about that, about
how you present students with the right informationand the right tools to have those informed
conversations with their faculty? So what studentsdo when they meet with me, and I revised my
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checklist, which used to have like 25 thingsthey had to do, and they would look at it and
go, oh my God, right? So after going and attendingan ISA seminar, January 2020, one of the presenters,
who was the VP of probably all things tech,talked about, that's not a good plan, Suzy,
don't do that anymore. You know, not directlyspeaking to me, but to all of us. And so I
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completely revised it. And I had my studentassistants revise it for me. I'm like, keep
everything on, but set it up so it's not overwhelming.And that it works for this generation. And
we did that. So it's in three steps. So thethree areas of the steps. So the first one
is before applying and they have to meet withtheir academic advisor. That's required. Now
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they're meeting with me then, they're alreadytalking about all kinds of different things,
but I tell them, don't come back to me withany of these questions without meeting with
your academic advisor because they're gonnabe able to help you and they will also confirm.
You think you know what you have left to take,but do you know how many students have made
an error? And... been like, oh, shoot, I actuallydidn't have any more humanities left. And now
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I'm kind of screwed. And I did this withoutan academic course credit benefit. Of course,
they still benefited. So that's something thatwe do. For it's like true partnerships with
academic advising units. I love that. Absolutely.And I also sit on the Academic Advising Council
along with many other people that are not academicadvisors. I want to take a moment to highlight
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the Accessing Careers, Engineering and Sciencegrant. or ACES grant that you all have at Stevens.
The New Jersey Business and Industry Associationhas recognized the achievement of Stevens's
ACES program with its 2020 Diversity and InclusionAward. Susie, tell us more about ACES and how
it benefits Stevens students. Oh, my ACES studentsare amazing and I really love this program.
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So it started out because President Fafardinreceived an award from actually the Carnegie
Foundation. So my part of it is a study abroadscholarship. But it's not just one. I have
funding for 14 students up to 5,000. So modeledafter two things really, mostly our scholars
program for the Pinnacle and Clark scholars,their stipend amount is 5,000. So the same,
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equal there. And then in addition to that, it'squite similar to what the Gilman offers. So
that's the model that we used in terms of thefinancing part. and those students are underrepresented
in STEM, that is a great opportunity for usto get more students abroad who might not be
able to. So underrepresented in STEM and lowerincome. And so those two factors are involved.
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One of the ways that you've always impressedus, Suzy, is your ability to encourage male
students and students with heavily structuredmajors to make the time to study abroad. Tell
us about how you're not only getting the wordout to these populations that study abroad
matters and is sustainable. What are your secrets?All right, so one of my secrets is that, part
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of this is that I'm in front of them a lot,right? So I do a weekly email blast, and I
know some people say, oh no, and on our campusopens their emails. Well, on ours you have
to, that's part just of the culture here. AndI now have noticed that through Outlook that
I have a 50% opening rate, which other campusoffices say, what? Wow, that's great when you're
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doing a blast, not a- Yeah, that's really high.So that's something that I just noticed it
the other day. I was like, and I kept goingthrough and all the different emails and I
was like, wow, they're all like right around50. Also my strong network on campus. I have
a colleague who is, who took an early retirementseveral years ago. She was the person I worked
with closely in our undergraduate academicsoffice, which I'm physically a part of their
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area. She said, Oh, if you need to know whosomeone is on campus, just ask Susie. Because
even though I've been here. Five years beforeSuzy got here, she knows more people on campus
than I do. So I think as international educators,we have to know who everyone is to work with
our students, whether it's on the internationalstudent side or the study abroad side. We are
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often maybe not the only one on campus, maybeit's a small office, maybe it's a large office,
but we have to know who our colleagues are andwork closely with them. So the network I also
already described regarding the academic advisors.very strong contacts in the financial aid office,
very strong. That has grown over the years andthere's always one person that's appointed,
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even if there's staffing changes, to work withmy office. Also our program called STAFF, basically
it is like our EOF program. So for studentswho are high need and have come in with maybe
from feeder schools that didn't have the moststellar preparation programs for them, So I
work very closely with them as well, and theyalso encourage their students to go abroad.
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So that relationship is a great partnership.And I think one thing that is a key with the
students though, I have to say, is that I respond,and I've been told this on many occasions,
I respond very quickly to their emails. And...They appreciate it. And I know that encourages
students who are, we all know there's a higherlevel anxiety right now amongst our college
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student population. And many students, whatthey're writing about is things they're very
anxious about. Like, what if I don't know anybody?What, you know, what's, you know, I need to
know who else is going on this. They'll askit more like, I need to know who else is going
on, you know, because I wanna plan my travelwith them or whatever, but really it's an anxiety.
What am I gonna do if I don't have a friendwhile I'm there, right? So, or financial worries,
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things like that. So I will answer quickly,partly at night, I will also answer simply
to like sometimes move my morning forward sothat I don't have as much to do. But I think
that makes a big difference to students is thatI do answer quickly. And so that's something
that they tell me. And to our listeners, I canconfirm that Suzy has the fastest fingers on
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the East Coast when it comes to email. And Ithink you're right. I think it makes a huge
difference to students because they feel heardand they feel like, you know, you're taking
their concerns seriously and we all are. Butyou're, you're making the effort to show them
that they're, that they're top of mind for you.You know, in my conversations with you, Suzy,
and observing the way you speak to your students,one thing is crystal clear about your approach.
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Study abroad is for everyone at Stevens. I'dlove for you to highlight some students in
particular who are able to study abroad againstall odds. I would love to do that. It's actually
one of my favorite things to talk about. Onewho stands out was my first biomedical engineering
student who went abroad. I was told that hewas high on the spectrum. He was also an athlete
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and he didn't really understand the boundariesof like knocking on the door or not just barging
in. And he would do all of that. And I was relatively,it had been a couple of years since I've been
at Stevens and I was able to handle that kindof interruption today. I really can. But he
came in and then, you know, he, we were workingtogether. He finally got courses approved for
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the first time ever for biomedical engineering.So in this student's case, I know, I definitely
know that he drove the teen abroad office crazywith a thousand. If not a million questions,
but he, we, you know, we kind of stayed on,on track with each other about that. And then
in fact, Dan O'Brien was involved at the time.And then when he came back. I could just see,
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I will tell you that it was like he had a glow.He had a new glow about him and not saying
that he didn't still interrupt or not understandboundaries, that didn't change. But he had
found his tribe when he was abroad. He foundother students from all over the world to hang
out with. He told me all about road trips throughoutthe North Island and the South Island. You
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know, I just, it was, it was thrilling for mebecause so many people were like, oh, he shouldn't
go. He won't do well. And so that's an example.Another quick one was a student with a medical
condition, which prevented him from going abroad.He'd had over 30 surgeries on his face. The
very beginning of the pandemic, when everybody,you know, morphed over to these different virtual
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options, I had approval quickly for virtualinternational internships, because my students
love internships. They're a little obsessed.And so this student actually worked with a
program. that included an internship in Ecuadorwhere they were designing different key components
for different things. And one of them was verybiomedical engineering related and that he
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was a mechanical engineer, but often they delveinto biomedical as well. And he helped design
the outer ear for the components of an outerear. And his report, when a student gets a
scholarship and we have a work abroad scholarship.when a student gets a scholarship, they must
write a two page report. And those are the oneswhere I get teary eyed every time. And his
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was particularly moving, talking about how hedidn't even think he would have an opportunity
like this ever, nor would he have the opportunityto interact. And this program included interactions
with students in Ecuador at the height of thepandemic. So that's another one of my favorite
ones. Those are really great stories. Thanksfor sharing that, Susie. Just thinking about
all the, you know, at WorldTest, we talk a lotabout life-changing experiences and those I
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think would certainly qualify for that. So thanksfor sharing that. It brings a little warmth
to my heart on this cold day outside. Absolutely.What are some of your best advising hacks for
STEM students? So this hack was a spreadsheet,of course, it's tech, you know, everybody loves
even like the low tech of an Excel spreadsheet.And so... It included all 16 programs that
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were approved at Stevens, mostly based on dates,because they needed to be back in time for
the weekend of the 20th of January. And it includedall the approved courses. And then we were
highlighting those that were offered in theJ-Trium, that we knew to be offered in the
J-Trium. We did this partly because we neededstudents to know. where they could take a humanities
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course because it does have that higher levelwhere it needs to be beyond just reflective
writing. And last year I noticed that studentsghosted me if they did not get their course
approved right away. They just would be like,oh, I disappeared. I was gonna do J-Term, but
I went out the window. And I still had 32 studentslast January, but I want more this January.
And I want more students also, not just forsome number, as part of a goal. but also because
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those students still have very transformationalexperiences and often it's the only time they
can go. Examples, co-op students as well asseniors, other students who can't fit in, even
juniors. It's often quite difficult to do anythinglonger than that or to do a summer. So that's
my favorite hack so far. It's been very popularand well received. One of the ways you support
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your students is by helping them cut throughthe noise. What are some ways that you share
information with students in amounts and formatsthat are digestible? One of the things that
I do, and I do this working with our providerpartners, such as those with World Strides
and others, and we work to get a short listof programs for the students who are gonna
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go abroad through the Pinnacle and Clark ScholarsProgram. And so what happened is we used to
have hundreds, right? My former vice provostreally liked the fact that we could give them
so many different opportunities. And that'sgreat for our generation probably. But for
this generation, they need more things in smallersoundbites. And again, I learned that from
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going to that seminar that certainly reinforcedit for me. So I was able to reach out to all
the study abroad providers and our other universitypartners and request that they send me no more
than 10 programs for the summer list. And that'smade a tremendous difference. So that is one
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that has really worked well for the students.Setting students up for success in their pursuit
of studying abroad means that our offices intersectwith so many others on campus. How are you
building and strategically tapping into keyrelationships on campus to help ensure smooth
transitions and support for your students? Oneof the ways that I sort of expand my relationships,
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because I've got a lot of good ones, but thenexpanding them are to put folks on committees.
So I will ask them or tell them they've beenselected, you know, use that kind of terminology.
You've been selected to serve on the ACES StudyAbroad Scholarship Committee. You've been selected
to serve on the International Education MonthCommittee, which is a whole separate thing,
but part of my job. I will also ask them tomake presentations or... invite myself to their
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meetings so that I can make presentations. Sothat is some of what I've been doing. And then
the other thing is tracking folks down. So wehave these relationships that I build the relationships
with the students as well as the faculty, theacademic advisors that I've touched on, and
then giving presentations. I am lined up togive a presentation as soon as I can fit it
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into my schedule with the Office of UndergraduateAdmissions. because I want to make sure that
their counselors, as they go out across theUS, understand all the opportunities. I don't
ever want a student to be told before they cometo Stevens, oh, we don't think that will work
well for you. We don't think computer sciencemajors can study abroad. That kind of information
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may have been shared in previous years. I'mnot sure, but I want to make sure that never
happens because their staff will be better informed.So those are just some examples of ways that
I've... been building relationships on campus.You know, as director at Stevens, you're obviously
in charge of strategic planning and also buildingthese types of key relationships that you've
(25:01):
been describing. Many of our listeners are likelyseeking ways to encourage more STEM students
to go abroad. And it would be helpful to havesome talking points to share with campus leadership
and with students during advising sessions.Tell us, Susie, how have you seen students
in STEM be impacted by their study abroad experienceand how has it been a critical part of their
(25:22):
overall curricular experience at their university?I have been particularly moved this summer
and fall reading my students' scholarship reports.So one of the students who got an ASIS scholarship
is a cybersecurity major, one of the hardestmajors for me to ever encourage them to think
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about studying abroad. There have been one ortwo approaching it, really, since 2016. which
is when I know that I sent my very first studentwho was cyber. So this student remarked that
he took an international marketing class andyou might wonder why a cybersecurity student
would take a class like that. And basically,this is how I wanna structure this to answer
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your questions, Zach. And that is that thisstudent talked about how he did not realize,
I mean, he probably should have, but he hadn'tgotten to that level in his studies to realize
that cybersecurity is always international,really. There's all kinds of intersections
of it. The culprits could be coming in fromanywhere in the world and often are. And so
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he just really didn't understand that. So hisbig takeaway is, number one, hey, guess what?
I already had a background in Spanish becauseI'm a heritage speaker. Now I'm pretty fluent
and I understand European Castilian Spanish.He was also in Barcelona, so Catalán came into
the picture as well. And so now he really feelslike he's ready to be a bilingual cybersecurity,
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you know, fledgling expert when he graduates.So I think those stories, the stories I believe
are a lot of what can sell leadership. Theylove the stories from the students. I know
that often makes a very big impact on the leadershipat Stevens is hearing the stories. Yes, you
can have all kinds of data, you can have yourdata points. The takeaway for the students
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in building their soft skills, which needs tobe built out to include things like flexibility,
working with multinational teams, tolerancefor ambiguity, all of those things that employers
do value. And they're very important for someonewith technical training to get those more nuanced
(27:35):
experiences so that they are. better able tocommunicate with their peers, with their teams,
and become the leaders of the STEM world. Fantastic.Thank you for sharing that, Suzie. You know,
as we begin to wrap up here, I just have onemore question for you. As you think about education
abroad in 2024, what makes you hopeful? I thinkwhat makes me hopeful is that I really thrive
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on the excitement of the students. So that alwayskeeps me hopeful are the students. I think
also... that just attending both the NASA conferenceas well as the World Stride Summit and seeing
like all these wonderful new things coming uplike using ChatGPT to, I use it with my student
assistants right now. I'll say, start an emailfor me. And they're like, I don't know how
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to do that. I said, look in ChatGPT and you'llfind the answer, right? My boss was just speaking,
presenting at the advising council today. Hebrought it up as well, using it for academic
advising. So learning these great tools, everytime I go to a conference, I meet new people
who are colleagues in the field, and I loveto also encourage the younger international
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educators. And so that's another thing thatgives me hope. I haven't had time to be in
the NAFSA Academy, but I have always had timeto encourage the younger colleagues who will
be, who are becoming the leaders in our fieldtoday. So I think those are just a couple of
things. Well, I can't imagine a better placeto end things than right here. What an inspiring
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and insightful conversation. Suzy Rashul, thankyou so much for being here. Thank you, Zach.
I really enjoyed it and I really appreciatethe opportunity. My students are going to change
the world and I encourage all of you to sendmore of your students abroad and change the
world as well. Hear hear. And to our listeners,thank you for joining us for this episode of
(29:29):
Changing Lives through Education Abroad. I amyour host, Seth McInnis, and please make sure
to join us next week as we continue to exploretopics around international education and exchange.
Thank you to my spectacular World's Greatestcolleagues, Lindsay Kelscher and Sarah Kachuba,
without whom this podcast would not be possible.Please subscribe to Changing Lives for Education
Abroad on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you getyour podcasts, and share with your friends
(29:52):
and colleagues. Let's create life-changing momentstogether.
The takeaway for the students in building theirsoft skills, which needs to be built out to
include things like flexibility, working withmultinational teams, tolerance for ambiguity,
all of those things that employers do value.And they're very important for someone with
technical training to get those more nuancedexperiences so that they are better able to
(00:27):
communicate with their peers. with their teamsand become the leaders of the STEM world. Hello,
everyone. Welcome to this episode of World StridesInaugural Podcast, Changing Lives through Education
Abroad, a weekly series of conversations withinternational education's most interesting
thought leaders, as well as discussions on emergingtrends, best practices, and innovation happening
(00:53):
in our field. I'm your host, Zach McInnis. SeniorDirector of Campus Partnerships with Worldstrides,
and I am so excited about this week's episode.Today, we're focusing on scaling study abroad
opportunities for STEM students, one of my veryfavorite topics. In today's rapidly evolving
global landscape, where science, technology,engineering, and mathematics are at the forefront
(01:18):
of innovation and progress, the role of internationalexperiences for STEM students has never been
more significant. According to the Institutefor International Education, roughly one quarter
of study abroad participants are from the STEMfields. STEM students represent more of the
study abroad population than any other academicarea, more than business and management, more
(01:42):
than humanities, and more than social sciences.In today's episode, we'll delve into the many
reasons why studying abroad can be a game changerfor students in the STEM fields and how practitioners
at institutions of all shapes and sizes shouldthink about education abroad for their science,
technology, engineering, and mathematics students.I am thrilled to welcome a dear friend and
(02:06):
distinguished guest onto the podcast. The Directorof International Programs at Stevens Institute
of Technology in beautiful Hoboken, New Jersey,Suzy Raschow has dedicated nearly 30 years
to advancing global education initiatives. She'sthe driving force behind making study abroad
integral part of the global education are theacademic culture at Stevens. We love Susie.
(02:29):
I can't wait for this conversation today. Staytuned and sit back, dear listeners, as this
is sure to be a captivating conversation. SusieRaschou, thank you for being here and welcome.
Thank you. Thank you for inviting me. To begin,I'd like to ask you to introduce yourself and
give us a brief overview of your career andyour current role at Stevens. And if you could,
(02:51):
share with us a bit about the education abroadecosystem at Stevens Institute of Technology.
Certainly. So I have been an international educatorsince I completed my on-campus portion of my
master's degree at the School for InternationalTraining in Intercultural Management in 1986.
So it's so hard to believe that it's been thatlong, as I'm still in touch with many of my
(03:15):
former students from those early days at NewEngland College in Arendelle, England. I also
worked at their New Hampshire campus of NewEngland College. before moving on. And it seemed
like a lot of my jobs were in six year rotations.And so I moved on to other campuses, including
the University of Wyoming, which was actuallya short stint, and then Crate University, Ramapo
(03:38):
College, Bridgewater State, which is where Imet Zach, and also in Massachusetts, and then
Long Island University's Global College campus.And then I... found out about this amazing
opportunity at Stevens Institute of Technologyto open their first Office of International
Programs. And I will be here 10 years in March.Happy Stevens' anniversary, Susie. Thank you.
(04:04):
We know that at Stevens Institute of Technology,STEM reigns supreme. Yet despite the numbers,
when we think about study abroad, STEM isn'talways the first thing that comes to mind.
But in the words of one of your students atStevens, study abroad is a thing. here at Stevens.
How are you doing this? How are you drivingforward, studying abroad as such a STEM focused
(04:25):
institution? All right, well, it has certainlybeen a journey because when I arrived at Stevens,
we had mostly probably 75 to 80% of the studentswere going on faculty led programs. And with
small numbers, and even those were strugglingmany of them, over time I was able to make
(04:45):
some changes. And we have grown to at the heightof our numbers, was right before the pandemic,
and we were at 190 and we were approaching 250,which is the overall goal. One of the things
that I've been able to do is really emphasizeto students the importance of saving their
humanities and general elective courses andto have some flexibility if they go abroad
(05:08):
for a semester and also to be able to sign upfor summer or J-term programs. This is something
that I've... been doing in my ulterior motivealso was number one, to get more students abroad,
but also to help them think critically aboutthe world through a new lens, not just an American
one, and not only about STEM, you know, broadentheir reach by having courses that were not
(05:36):
just about STEM to influence their backgroundmore, help them to understand cultures better
and understand things like being comfortabletheir uncomfortableness and tolerating ambiguity.
When international education is inherent inthe institutional makeup of a university, that
usually means there's support from the verytop. What does that look like at Stevens? Well,
(05:59):
at Stevens, it indeed does stop at the verytop, start at the very top. So our president,
Naremin Favardin, was born and raised in Iran,and he really is truly a Renaissance man and
has been an inspirational leader. But in additionto the president, I also have support from
the vice provost, David Zeng, who is my directsupervisor, as well as Jianmin Q, who is our
(06:23):
provost. So really, from the top down, thereis a lot of support in terms of encouraging
me to get more students to go abroad and encouragingme with things like getting brand new software.
So indeed, I do have broad support from campusleadership. as well as from many deans and
(06:44):
other leaders on campus. You know, I often thinkabout how different education abroad looks
at Stevens today than it did 10 years ago whenyou started. So very impressive work, once
again, my friend, and all that you've accomplishedin that time. And I want to pick your brain
a little bit more. What are some of the uniquechallenges that STEM students face when planning
(07:05):
for a study abroad experience? One of the uniquechallenges, of course, as many of you would
guess, is the curriculum. So the curriculumchallenges are pretty strong at Stevens still,
but I do have other champions across campus,the whole category of a study abroad champion,
which I know you've been talking about in thepodcast, and how we have that at Stevens in
(07:27):
a variety of areas. The curriculum challengehas been met by giving students alternatives,
like if they're already so far into their degree,that they cannot possibly, like they're done
with their humanities, they're done with theirgeneral electives. They can't go abroad in
their junior year because their major may beunique, like biomedical engineering. It's very
(07:47):
tough to find courses abroad in that area. Soit's better for them to go earlier. So one
of our exchanges, which is at Comillas-CuantificelUniversity, Universidad Comillas, and that
one is for any of the engineers. And I was ableto bring around several kind of naysayers who
(08:10):
thought, you know, really had an old idea aboutstudy abroad, simply that it's something for
fun and for fluff, and you go off on jauntingaround, and nothing is very serious. And so
I was able to turn around sort of the overallapproach in some of the departments and win
folks over with programs that were at stellarengineering institutions like that area of
(08:34):
that particular school, Icahi at Comillas. Sothings like that, finding other programs. So
basically curriculum matching, designing, studyabroad, choices for students. I'm not designing
the curriculum obviously, but choices. Studentswill come in and meet with me. I wanna go to
Italy and study such and such, biomedical engineering.And I'm like, that's not gonna happen. Let's,
(09:00):
how about college Dublin? How about this? Howabout that exchange? Looking at all the factors.
So that's one of the big challenges, certainlyalso sequencing. Like do not go abroad when
you're a junior if you're a chemical engineeringmajor. It's going to be disastrous for you.
You need to go when you're a sophomore. Youknow, finding those right fits, that's a big
part of the unique challenges for STEM. Theremay be that they can only go to one university,
(09:24):
which you wouldn't find really for almost anyother major, I don't think, right? So that's
some of the unique challenges. Also having justthose great champions who assist, Connie Ah,
who used to work in my office and was the studyabroad coordinator, has now spent half of her
time at Stevens in my office and half as anacademic advisor for computer science students.
(09:46):
And she now encourages every student to eitherstudy abroad, do a virtual internship, do research
abroad. She encourages them to just take a generalelective or their technical electives. And
so that's also been a great help. And now havinga former study abroad student, an alum, who
(10:07):
is the assistant director for curriculum inthe School of Engineering and Science. So those
are just a few takeaways that you can come upwith for that. Just a couple hacks to share.
Just a few. Thank you, Suzy. I wanna call outone of the things that you just mentioned because
I think it's so important. It is the way thatyou are empowering your students to have those
(10:29):
conversations about curriculum themselves. withtheir advisors and their departments. Because
I often find that a student delivering a messagelike that could oftentimes be more powerful
than if it comes from someone like us. So canyou talk a little bit more about that, about
how you present students with the right informationand the right tools to have those informed
conversations with their faculty? So what studentsdo when they meet with me, and I revised my
(10:53):
checklist, which used to have like 25 thingsthey had to do, and they would look at it and
go, oh my God, right? So after going and attendingan ISA seminar, January 2020, one of the presenters,
who was the VP of probably all things tech,talked about, that's not a good plan, Suzy,
don't do that anymore. You know, not directlyspeaking to me, but to all of us. And so I
(11:14):
completely revised it. And I had my studentassistants revise it for me. I'm like, keep
everything on, but set it up so it's not overwhelming.And that it works for this generation. And
we did that. So it's in three steps. So thethree areas of the steps. So the first one
is before applying and they have to meet withtheir academic advisor. That's required. Now
(11:35):
they're meeting with me then, they're alreadytalking about all kinds of different things,
but I tell them, don't come back to me withany of these questions without meeting with
your academic advisor because they're gonnabe able to help you and they will also confirm.
You think you know what you have left to take,but do you know how many students have made
an error? And... been like, oh, shoot, I actuallydidn't have any more humanities left. And now
(11:58):
I'm kind of screwed. And I did this withoutan academic course credit benefit. Of course,
they still benefited. So that's something thatwe do. For it's like true partnerships with
academic advising units. I love that. Absolutely.And I also sit on the Academic Advising Council
along with many other people that are not academicadvisors. I want to take a moment to highlight
(12:20):
the Accessing Careers, Engineering and Sciencegrant. or ACES grant that you all have at Stevens.
The New Jersey Business and Industry Associationhas recognized the achievement of Stevens's
ACES program with its 2020 Diversity and InclusionAward. Susie, tell us more about ACES and how
it benefits Stevens students. Oh, my ACES studentsare amazing and I really love this program.
(12:45):
So it started out because President Fafardinreceived an award from actually the Carnegie
Foundation. So my part of it is a study abroadscholarship. But it's not just one. I have
funding for 14 students up to 5,000. So modeledafter two things really, mostly our scholars
program for the Pinnacle and Clark scholars,their stipend amount is 5,000. So the same,
(13:10):
equal there. And then in addition to that, it'squite similar to what the Gilman offers. So
that's the model that we used in terms of thefinancing part. and those students are underrepresented
in STEM, that is a great opportunity for usto get more students abroad who might not be
able to. So underrepresented in STEM and lowerincome. And so those two factors are involved.
(13:34):
One of the ways that you've always impressedus, Suzy, is your ability to encourage male
students and students with heavily structuredmajors to make the time to study abroad. Tell
us about how you're not only getting the wordout to these populations that study abroad
matters and is sustainable. What are your secrets?All right, so one of my secrets is that, part
(13:54):
of this is that I'm in front of them a lot,right? So I do a weekly email blast, and I
know some people say, oh no, and on our campusopens their emails. Well, on ours you have
to, that's part just of the culture here. AndI now have noticed that through Outlook that
I have a 50% opening rate, which other campusoffices say, what? Wow, that's great when you're
(14:16):
doing a blast, not a- Yeah, that's really high.So that's something that I just noticed it
the other day. I was like, and I kept goingthrough and all the different emails and I
was like, wow, they're all like right around50. Also my strong network on campus. I have
a colleague who is, who took an early retirementseveral years ago. She was the person I worked
with closely in our undergraduate academicsoffice, which I'm physically a part of their
(14:40):
area. She said, Oh, if you need to know whosomeone is on campus, just ask Susie. Because
even though I've been here. Five years beforeSuzy got here, she knows more people on campus
than I do. So I think as international educators,we have to know who everyone is to work with
our students, whether it's on the internationalstudent side or the study abroad side. We are
(15:01):
often maybe not the only one on campus, maybeit's a small office, maybe it's a large office,
but we have to know who our colleagues are andwork closely with them. So the network I also
already described regarding the academic advisors.very strong contacts in the financial aid office,
very strong. That has grown over the years andthere's always one person that's appointed,
(15:23):
even if there's staffing changes, to work withmy office. Also our program called STAFF, basically
it is like our EOF program. So for studentswho are high need and have come in with maybe
from feeder schools that didn't have the moststellar preparation programs for them, So I
work very closely with them as well, and theyalso encourage their students to go abroad.
(15:48):
So that relationship is a great partnership.And I think one thing that is a key with the
students though, I have to say, is that I respond,and I've been told this on many occasions,
I respond very quickly to their emails. And...They appreciate it. And I know that encourages
students who are, we all know there's a higherlevel anxiety right now amongst our college
(16:11):
student population. And many students, whatthey're writing about is things they're very
anxious about. Like, what if I don't know anybody?What, you know, what's, you know, I need to
know who else is going on this. They'll askit more like, I need to know who else is going
on, you know, because I wanna plan my travelwith them or whatever, but really it's an anxiety.
What am I gonna do if I don't have a friendwhile I'm there, right? So, or financial worries,
(16:37):
things like that. So I will answer quickly,partly at night, I will also answer simply
to like sometimes move my morning forward sothat I don't have as much to do. But I think
that makes a big difference to students is thatI do answer quickly. And so that's something
that they tell me. And to our listeners, I canconfirm that Suzy has the fastest fingers on
(17:00):
the East Coast when it comes to email. And Ithink you're right. I think it makes a huge
difference to students because they feel heardand they feel like, you know, you're taking
their concerns seriously and we all are. Butyou're, you're making the effort to show them
that they're, that they're top of mind for you.You know, in my conversations with you, Suzy,
and observing the way you speak to your students,one thing is crystal clear about your approach.
(17:22):
Study abroad is for everyone at Stevens. I'dlove for you to highlight some students in
particular who are able to study abroad againstall odds. I would love to do that. It's actually
one of my favorite things to talk about. Onewho stands out was my first biomedical engineering
student who went abroad. I was told that hewas high on the spectrum. He was also an athlete
(17:44):
and he didn't really understand the boundariesof like knocking on the door or not just barging
in. And he would do all of that. And I was relatively,it had been a couple of years since I've been
at Stevens and I was able to handle that kindof interruption today. I really can. But he
came in and then, you know, he, we were workingtogether. He finally got courses approved for
(18:06):
the first time ever for biomedical engineering.So in this student's case, I know, I definitely
know that he drove the teen abroad office crazywith a thousand. If not a million questions,
but he, we, you know, we kind of stayed on,on track with each other about that. And then
in fact, Dan O'Brien was involved at the time.And then when he came back. I could just see,
(18:30):
I will tell you that it was like he had a glow.He had a new glow about him and not saying
that he didn't still interrupt or not understandboundaries, that didn't change. But he had
found his tribe when he was abroad. He foundother students from all over the world to hang
out with. He told me all about road trips throughoutthe North Island and the South Island. You
(18:52):
know, I just, it was, it was thrilling for mebecause so many people were like, oh, he shouldn't
go. He won't do well. And so that's an example.Another quick one was a student with a medical
condition, which prevented him from going abroad.He'd had over 30 surgeries on his face. The
very beginning of the pandemic, when everybody,you know, morphed over to these different virtual
(19:14):
options, I had approval quickly for virtualinternational internships, because my students
love internships. They're a little obsessed.And so this student actually worked with a
program. that included an internship in Ecuadorwhere they were designing different key components
for different things. And one of them was verybiomedical engineering related and that he
(19:38):
was a mechanical engineer, but often they delveinto biomedical as well. And he helped design
the outer ear for the components of an outerear. And his report, when a student gets a
scholarship and we have a work abroad scholarship.when a student gets a scholarship, they must
write a two page report. And those are the oneswhere I get teary eyed every time. And his
(20:02):
was particularly moving, talking about how hedidn't even think he would have an opportunity
like this ever, nor would he have the opportunityto interact. And this program included interactions
with students in Ecuador at the height of thepandemic. So that's another one of my favorite
ones. Those are really great stories. Thanksfor sharing that, Susie. Just thinking about
all the, you know, at WorldTest, we talk a lotabout life-changing experiences and those I
(20:26):
think would certainly qualify for that. So thanksfor sharing that. It brings a little warmth
to my heart on this cold day outside. Absolutely.What are some of your best advising hacks for
STEM students? So this hack was a spreadsheet,of course, it's tech, you know, everybody loves
even like the low tech of an Excel spreadsheet.And so... It included all 16 programs that
(20:49):
were approved at Stevens, mostly based on dates,because they needed to be back in time for
the weekend of the 20th of January. And it includedall the approved courses. And then we were
highlighting those that were offered in theJ-Trium, that we knew to be offered in the
J-Trium. We did this partly because we neededstudents to know. where they could take a humanities
(21:12):
course because it does have that higher levelwhere it needs to be beyond just reflective
writing. And last year I noticed that studentsghosted me if they did not get their course
approved right away. They just would be like,oh, I disappeared. I was gonna do J-Term, but
I went out the window. And I still had 32 studentslast January, but I want more this January.
And I want more students also, not just forsome number, as part of a goal. but also because
(21:38):
those students still have very transformationalexperiences and often it's the only time they
can go. Examples, co-op students as well asseniors, other students who can't fit in, even
juniors. It's often quite difficult to do anythinglonger than that or to do a summer. So that's
my favorite hack so far. It's been very popularand well received. One of the ways you support
(22:02):
your students is by helping them cut throughthe noise. What are some ways that you share
information with students in amounts and formatsthat are digestible? One of the things that
I do, and I do this working with our providerpartners, such as those with World Strides
and others, and we work to get a short listof programs for the students who are gonna
(22:23):
go abroad through the Pinnacle and Clark ScholarsProgram. And so what happened is we used to
have hundreds, right? My former vice provostreally liked the fact that we could give them
so many different opportunities. And that'sgreat for our generation probably. But for
this generation, they need more things in smallersoundbites. And again, I learned that from
(22:45):
going to that seminar that certainly reinforcedit for me. So I was able to reach out to all
the study abroad providers and our other universitypartners and request that they send me no more
than 10 programs for the summer list. And that'smade a tremendous difference. So that is one
(23:05):
that has really worked well for the students.Setting students up for success in their pursuit
of studying abroad means that our offices intersectwith so many others on campus. How are you
building and strategically tapping into keyrelationships on campus to help ensure smooth
transitions and support for your students? Oneof the ways that I sort of expand my relationships,
(23:28):
because I've got a lot of good ones, but thenexpanding them are to put folks on committees.
So I will ask them or tell them they've beenselected, you know, use that kind of terminology.
You've been selected to serve on the ACES StudyAbroad Scholarship Committee. You've been selected
to serve on the International Education MonthCommittee, which is a whole separate thing,
but part of my job. I will also ask them tomake presentations or... invite myself to their
(23:54):
meetings so that I can make presentations. Sothat is some of what I've been doing. And then
the other thing is tracking folks down. So wehave these relationships that I build the relationships
with the students as well as the faculty, theacademic advisors that I've touched on, and
then giving presentations. I am lined up togive a presentation as soon as I can fit it
(24:17):
into my schedule with the Office of UndergraduateAdmissions. because I want to make sure that
their counselors, as they go out across theUS, understand all the opportunities. I don't
ever want a student to be told before they cometo Stevens, oh, we don't think that will work
well for you. We don't think computer sciencemajors can study abroad. That kind of information
(24:40):
may have been shared in previous years. I'mnot sure, but I want to make sure that never
happens because their staff will be better informed.So those are just some examples of ways that
I've... been building relationships on campus.You know, as director at Stevens, you're obviously
in charge of strategic planning and also buildingthese types of key relationships that you've
(25:01):
been describing. Many of our listeners are likelyseeking ways to encourage more STEM students
to go abroad. And it would be helpful to havesome talking points to share with campus leadership
and with students during advising sessions.Tell us, Susie, how have you seen students
in STEM be impacted by their study abroad experienceand how has it been a critical part of their
(25:22):
overall curricular experience at their university?I have been particularly moved this summer
and fall reading my students' scholarship reports.So one of the students who got an ASIS scholarship
is a cybersecurity major, one of the hardestmajors for me to ever encourage them to think
(25:42):
about studying abroad. There have been one ortwo approaching it, really, since 2016. which
is when I know that I sent my very first studentwho was cyber. So this student remarked that
he took an international marketing class andyou might wonder why a cybersecurity student
would take a class like that. And basically,this is how I wanna structure this to answer
(26:05):
your questions, Zach. And that is that thisstudent talked about how he did not realize,
I mean, he probably should have, but he hadn'tgotten to that level in his studies to realize
that cybersecurity is always international,really. There's all kinds of intersections
of it. The culprits could be coming in fromanywhere in the world and often are. And so
(26:27):
he just really didn't understand that. So hisbig takeaway is, number one, hey, guess what?
I already had a background in Spanish becauseI'm a heritage speaker. Now I'm pretty fluent
and I understand European Castilian Spanish.He was also in Barcelona, so Catalán came into
the picture as well. And so now he really feelslike he's ready to be a bilingual cybersecurity,
(26:51):
you know, fledgling expert when he graduates.So I think those stories, the stories I believe
are a lot of what can sell leadership. Theylove the stories from the students. I know
that often makes a very big impact on the leadershipat Stevens is hearing the stories. Yes, you
can have all kinds of data, you can have yourdata points. The takeaway for the students
(27:15):
in building their soft skills, which needs tobe built out to include things like flexibility,
working with multinational teams, tolerancefor ambiguity, all of those things that employers
do value. And they're very important for someonewith technical training to get those more nuanced
(27:35):
experiences so that they are. better able tocommunicate with their peers, with their teams,
and become the leaders of the STEM world. Fantastic.Thank you for sharing that, Suzie. You know,
as we begin to wrap up here, I just have onemore question for you. As you think about education
abroad in 2024, what makes you hopeful? I thinkwhat makes me hopeful is that I really thrive
(28:00):
on the excitement of the students. So that alwayskeeps me hopeful are the students. I think
also... that just attending both the NASA conferenceas well as the World Stride Summit and seeing
like all these wonderful new things coming uplike using ChatGPT to, I use it with my student
assistants right now. I'll say, start an emailfor me. And they're like, I don't know how
(28:22):
to do that. I said, look in ChatGPT and you'llfind the answer, right? My boss was just speaking,
presenting at the advising council today. Hebrought it up as well, using it for academic
advising. So learning these great tools, everytime I go to a conference, I meet new people
who are colleagues in the field, and I loveto also encourage the younger international
(28:46):
educators. And so that's another thing thatgives me hope. I haven't had time to be in
the NAFSA Academy, but I have always had timeto encourage the younger colleagues who will
be, who are becoming the leaders in our fieldtoday. So I think those are just a couple of
things. Well, I can't imagine a better placeto end things than right here. What an inspiring
(29:07):
and insightful conversation. Suzy Rashul, thankyou so much for being here. Thank you, Zach.
I really enjoyed it and I really appreciatethe opportunity. My students are going to change
the world and I encourage all of you to sendmore of your students abroad and change the
world as well. Hear hear. And to our listeners,thank you for joining us for this episode of
(29:29):
Changing Lives through Education Abroad. I amyour host, Seth McInnis, and please make sure
to join us next week as we continue to exploretopics around international education and exchange.
Thank you to my spectacular World's Greatestcolleagues, Lindsay Kelscher and Sarah Kachuba,
without whom this podcast would not be possible.Please subscribe to Changing Lives for Education
Abroad on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you getyour podcasts, and share with your friends
(29:52):
and colleagues. Let's create life-changing momentstogether.
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