January 15, 2025 • 37 mins
In this episode of Christian Book Blurb, host Matt McChlery speaks with author Kate Nicholas about her journey through cancer and the profound connection she found with God during her trials. They discuss the importance of sharing personal stories of faith, the growing popularity of audiobooks, and the healing power of authenticity. Kate shares her experiences of writing her award-winning audiobook, 'To the Ocean Floor,' and emphasizes the significance of faith in the healing process. The conversation also touches on the role of loved ones during illness, embracing trials, and the influence of the Holy Spirit in daily life. Kate also talks about her love of paddle boarding and wild swimming and watching Brian Cox documentaries.
Links
Help keep this podcast on the web by simply buying me a coffee https://www.buymeacoffee.com/mattmcchlery
Buy 'To The Ocean Floor' from St Andrews Bookshop
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Visit Matt McChlery's website mattmcchlery.com
Visit Kate Nicholas' website katenicholas.co.uk
Takeaways
- Kate Nicholas shares her cancer journey and connection with God.
- The importance of sharing personal stories of faith and healing.
- Audiobooks provide a unique way to experience an author's message.
- Writing for audiobooks requires a different approach than traditional writing.
- Authenticity in storytelling can lead to powerful healing experiences.
- Faith and healing are complex and cannot be reduced to simple formulas.
- The ocean floor experience symbolizes a deep encounter with God.
- Loved ones play a crucial role in supporting those facing illness.
- Embracing trials can lead to spiritual growth and transformation.
- The Holy Spirit's presence can be felt in everyday life.
Chapters
00:00 Introduction to Christian Book Blurb 00:58 Kate Nicholas and Her Journey with Cancer 02:48 The Power of Audiobooks 06:03 Sharing Personal Stories of Faith 08:52 The Importance of Authenticity in Healing 11:47 Understanding Faith and Healing 15:05 The Ocean Floor Experience 17:49 Advice for Those Facing Cancer 22:10 The Role of Loved Ones in the Healing Process 25:12 Embracing Trials and Suffering 28:10 Getting to Know Kate Nicholas 31:57 The Holy Spirit's Influence in Daily Life 35:11 Looking Ahead: Future Projects
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
This is Christian Book Blurb brought to you by author and songwriter Matt McChlery Get abehind the scenes glimpse into the lives of some of your favourite Christian authors, hear
about their books and faith.
Also, why not check out my website, mattmcleary.com.
Well, hello and welcome to another edition of the Christian Book Blurb.
(00:21):
We like to encourage you in your discipleship one book at a time as we meet some amazingChristian authors and learn about their books.
their lives and their faith.
Well, I'm your host, Matt McChlery.
Thanks for clicking over and joining me today.
Now on today's show, I'm going to be talking about audio books and also somebody's ownpersonal experience of living through cancer with the author, Kate Nicholas.
(00:52):
So let's welcome Kate to the show.
Hi, Kate.
Hi Matt.
It's so good to be here.
Thanks very much.
Yeah, thanks for joining me.
It's great to have you here.
your book, one of your books, because I know you've got a few, one of your books is calledTo the Ocean Floor, and it recently won a CRT award.
(01:15):
So that stands for Christian Resources Together.
And it won that award for the best audiobook in 2024.
For those listeners who don't know, CRT is like the, it's the Christian Book Award thatyou want to win in the UK.
It's like, it's the one that counts.
(01:36):
So congratulations.
Well, thank you.
I was blown away by it.
was wonderful.
Yeah.
To the ocean floor.
It's actually about my second cancer journey during the pandemic and how it became agateway into a profound connection with God.
I wasn't the first time I was diagnosed.
I first diagnosed with stage four advanced cancer in 2014 that spread around my heart andaround my meds, my lungs.
(02:01):
And I wasn't expected to survive more than about 12 months.
But as I always say, spoiler alert, the fact that I'm here talking to you today shows thatGod did something amazing.
And I went into remission for seven months.
But in the midst of the pandemic, the cancer came back again.
And that's what this book is about.
It came back with a vengeance and it's a book about how I connected with God in thestillness at the center of this whole storm I was caught up in.
(02:30):
And I think one thing I love is Gerald Kelly, the poet Gerald Kelly said, it's a powerfulaccount of the richness to be found at the borders of life's journey, which I think sums
it up rather well.
And something I found with it as well is,
Yes, it doesn't shy away from the experience that you went through.
(02:55):
Some of it is quite honest and raw, which is great because I think, and we might talkabout this a bit later, it's important for people to hear stories like this.
But it's not just solely that.
There's a lot of spiritual journey in there and
(03:17):
God at work, even entire whole chapters of just this is what God's doing, this is whatGod's saying, this is how I've connected to God in this way or that way.
So yeah it's not just one-dimensional I think is what I'm trying to say.
It gives a nicely kind of well-rounded view of your experience from the practical side butalso the spiritual side.
(03:46):
which is really good.
audiobook.
Let's, let's come back to audiobooks.
So this one, an audiobook award.
Now what's it like recording an audiobook?
Well, it's great fun.
It's slightly bizarre.
I spent about three days locked in a small padded cell about the size of a telephone box.
(04:08):
I'm reading my own book.
I actually thought it would probably be read by an actor or professional, but,
My publishers decided they wanted me to do it.
I must say I have got a lot of experience working radio and in television.
So I decided that I was going to do this.
And I thought it would be, I don't know what I thought it would be, but it was veryintense and it was incredibly moving.
(04:31):
I was quite surprised by the intensity.
There's a scene in it where I'm separated by my husband by COVID rules.
And when I read it and came to this, was, I got quite upset.
There was a real catch in my voice.
And I immediately said to the producer, sorry, I'll do that again.
And he said, no, he said, no, it's that, as you talked about that vulnerability, thatauthenticity that makes it so powerful.
(04:54):
And of course he was absolutely right, which is why I think he got the CRT awards becauseI had such great advice doing this.
And if someone else is probably thinking about maybe recording an audio book, if there'sany
authors or budding writers out there, what are some of the things you think they need toknow about the audiobook recording process if they're going to prepare for something like
(05:20):
that?
Yeah well I think what I would say is that try and write as if you're going to do anaudiobook.
I've actually now, with the book I'm working on now which we'll talk about later, I'mactually, as I write it, I'm reading it out loud.
because one of the first things I discovered when I got into my telephone box was ofcourse that I got so many Greek and Hebrew words in it and I had to make sure I was
(05:43):
absolutely right on the pronunciation and I had a real problem with the word contemplativewhich we're sure we'll talk about is very prominent in the book.
So I kept stumbling over this.
So I think really writing a book as if it's going to be read aloud.
And I think the second thing is practice, practice, practice because
By the time you get in, you need to be able to pace each scene accordingly.
(06:06):
You aren't just reading a book in a way you're acting the book, because you need to beable to immerse the reader totally in a way in your story.
And so you need to bring the words alive for them.
It is a wonderful process.
I'd really recommend to anyone thinking about it that do please do it.
It's a fantastic thing to do.
(06:27):
Mm Really good.
And audio books are.
growing aren't they?
They're in popularity, they're kind of skyrocketing and shooting through the roof and insome some areas of the market.
Why do you think audiobooks are so popular?
Well they're incredibly accessible aren't they?
I'm seeing a lot of people could have listened to them when they're driving or doing otherthings, doing the housework.
(06:49):
I I really connected with the power of audiobooks when I was ill because I reached a pointwhich I talked about in the book that I was just unable to read.
I just was too ill to read.
And that's when I began to listen to audiobooks and it was an incredibly powerfulexperience.
was listening to audiobooks about faith.
I was listening to some healing scriptures as well.
And I think I can't speak about why every single type of audiobook is popular, but I thinkwhen it comes to books about faith, about personal faith and about spirituality, I think
(07:19):
it's really profound to hear directly from the author.
It's as if you're able to inhabit their mind, their world for a while.
that you're actually able to experience their faith experience.
And that is an incredibly powerful thing.
Maybe for people who have seekers, people who haven't yet met Jesus, to be able to heardirectly from the author and to be able to inhabit that space where they're meeting with
(07:44):
Jesus is just incredible.
Hmm, really good.
Some listeners might know that I'm a cancer survivor myself in some of the...
early days of the podcast, I was on the other end of the microphone and interviewed abouta book that I had written about my experience of surviving stage four cancer, different
(08:07):
type of cancer to yours.
But I must say reading your book, there were a lot of moments I was nodding my head going,yes, that's what I felt as well.
So it's a very poignant and insightful.
Do you think it's important to share stories like this?
(08:29):
absolutely, absolutely.
And I'm very glad that you said, first of all, praise the Lord that you're here and you'vegot through cancer as well.
I think the fact you shared your story is really powerful.
Throughout the Bible, God's people are encouraged and even commanded to share what He'sdone for them.
When I was first diagnosed with stage four, and was breast cancer I was diagnosed with,and I can say one thing.
(08:52):
Ladies, if you're offered a mammogram, please go and have one.
And gentlemen, if you're ladies, if anyone you know is offered a mammogram, pleaseencourage them because it saved my life.
But when I was first diagnosed, I was given a passage from Psalm 118 and 17.
I will not die, but will live and declare the works of the Lord.
And I tell you, I hung on to that passage like a life raft.
(09:18):
And I began.
this whole writing journey, because I've started to write down my story for my children.
I started to put together photograph albums, but I soon realised that they didn't showanything about how I saw the world, what I believed, so I started to write what I call my
soul story, really, my experience of God.
(09:39):
And this became my first book, my memoir, Change, which tells the story of my ratherunconventional faith journey, my story of healing.
And that was actually a short list of CRT
Christian Bogg for the year.
And out of that, my life changed.
I started going and talking at churches, at Christian events all over the UK as far afieldas Kenya and Australia.
(10:00):
And I then did a show on TBN.
I presented a show on TBN called Living a Transformed Life where I had guests in.
And I began to hear all these amazing stories that other people had to tell.
And I began to think, I began to realise, I think all of us have got a soul story.
I think a story about that
part of us that connects with God.
(10:20):
Well, people think their lives aren't dramatic enough, but I think God can use all thecircumstances of our lives.
And he wants us to understand that story because I think then we can see the meaning andpurpose in our lives.
And I think he wants us to share that story because people can argue with our theology,but they can't argue with your authentic experience of God.
(10:41):
And which is, yeah, so I wrote this, like out of this came a book called Soul Scribe,which is a guide to understanding.
and sharing your soul story, which takes people through the different chapters of theirlives.
And it asks questions that all build up into a kind of narrative they can share withfamily and friends.
And I even launched an online course called Write Your Soul Story, which is to help peopledo as we've done and to share their story.
(11:04):
But I think it's so powerful because for some people, we may be the only Bible they everread.
You know, we may be their introduction to Jesus.
And for a topic like
cancer as well.
It's such a taboo topic in society.
I mean, some people don't even speak its name.
(11:27):
They just call it the big C or something.
They don't even want to say the word cancer.
And people who are going through it sometimes just completely clam up or they don't feelable to share what's going on inside them.
And then you have everyone else.
in their lives kind of feeling sort of pushed away or blocked out because they don't quiteknow how to deal with it or relate to the person because they don't really know what the
(11:57):
person's going through.
And so I think just for those of us who do feel called to share big moments in our liveslike this that call for lot of vulnerability and openness and I know some people aren't
able to go there.
that's okay, but for those of us who are, it just helps to give a bit of that insight andunderstanding and maybe help those, or even relatives of those, who might be experiencing
(12:28):
similar things to try and gain a bit of an insight or something to help that time in theirlives.
yeah, and as you say as well about sharing faith through it is very important as well.
you mentioned, that your experience was more like saying in the book, you say that it wasmore like saying thy will be done rather than battling cancer.
(12:56):
know in lots of adverts I find they sort of say, we're going to fight cancer and we'regoing to, you know, kick cancer where the sun don't shine and all this kind of stuff.
But having been there myself, it doesn't really feel like that.
felt really weak and at the mercy of everything.
What are your thoughts on it?
Well, I think that we use this term battling cancer because it gives us a sense of agencyin a situation that is basically completely outside of our control.
(13:24):
Where we have none, yeah.
Yeah.
I've been a bona fide control freak all my life.
And I remember when I first started eating, when I first was diagnosed, I went out andbought a juicer and I started eating vast quantities of kale.
And I remember praying each morning, putting on the armor of God, you know.
Like, you know, I put on the belt of truth that you are Jehovah, wrath of the God whoheals.
(13:45):
But I think that what I felt was that I was being called to trust in God.
Now, I don't, I'm very clear in my book, I don't know why some people are healed and someare not.
I constantly wonder at the fact that I'm still here.
And I thank the Lord each day.
say, this is the day the Lord has made and I'll rejoice and be glad in it.
I make very clear in my books that I don't think anyone should fight cancer on a diet ofprayer and carrots.
(14:10):
I believe that doctors are God's hands and feet.
believe that all the wisdom that has created all these great medical breakthroughs comesfrom God.
But I think what I have come to realize is that God's referral healing is actuallysomething bigger than maybe even a cure.
And I think that the real healing that I experienced was this extraordinary peace that
(14:35):
really did pass all understanding.
In Sea Change, my first book, I write about how when I was diagnosed this extraordinarycalm came upon me, to the point where the oncologist kept saying to me, you do understand
the implications of what I'm telling you, don't you Kate?
I said, yeah, yeah, I do.
You're telling me I'm dying.
He couldn't quite understand how I could be so calm.
(14:56):
But I think this sense of God's presence I felt throughout was almost incandescent.
It was as if for a while,
I was standing on the border between the natural and the supernatural.
And I think that sense of his presence, I think that sense of peace, I think is probablyhis greatest healing.
(15:17):
And I think I can say, I think with authenticity, that even if I had not survived, I thinkI would still have been healed.
that makes sense.
You know, having been there myself, that's one of the amazing things.
It happened to me as well.
(15:37):
I had this immense sense of peace through the whole thing.
I don't think I would have made it without that carrying me through.
I find it quite frightening thinking about how people do deal with this without faith.
I think it must be a terrible person.
Another thing that I found very interesting
in your book To the Ocean Floor is you said that I think one of the most deeply damagingsuggestions is that our survival relates to the depth of our faith.
(16:12):
So how does the statement square up with those parts of scripture that seem to link faithand healing in your experience?
Yeah, this is something I've written out quite a lot, both into the ocean floor and mymemoir, Sea Change.
When I first became ill, I started studying what the Bible had to say about healing.
(16:33):
And I realized that, I realized first of all, that it is God's perfect will to heal.
You know, in Exodus 15, 26, he says, I am the God who heals, I am Jehovah Rapha.
And of course, there are great examples within Jesus' own healings of where faith did playa part, you know, that wonderful story in Mark 5 where, you know,
The woman in the crowd reaches out to touch his cloak and he says to her, daughter, yourfaith has made you well.
(16:57):
Go in peace and be healed of your disease.
And there's also examples of others' faith, that lovely story in Luke 5 where the friendslower their friend, their paralysed friend down through the roof.
And Jesus says, when he saw their faith, he said to them, your sins are forgiven.
But there are also examples of where people had little faith or no faith.
(17:19):
I'm seeing all the 20 mass healings, 20 plus mass healings that took place.
There's no indication that every single person in that crowd utterly had utter faith.
And I think one of my favorite stories is the one about, in John 5, about the paganworshipping lame man at the pool of Bethesda who went asked afterwards who healed him,
(17:41):
said he didn't know.
He hadn't got a clue who Jesus was.
And yet Jesus was still able to form this extraordinary miracle.
Yeah, I think it's really human to think that if we only pray a little harder, if we onlyserve the Lord a little better, that we'll be healed.
But that's not how God's grace works.
You know, we can't earn healing.
(18:03):
And I think if we think we can, I think it's a terrible burden to bear.
I think what we are called to do is to surrender to His perfect will and to pray, thy willbe done and actually mean it.
Yeah, that's it.
And they make that choice.
to actually trust that he will do what is right for our lives, not for our life.
(18:25):
Yeah, that's really good.
Thank you.
And you have a recurring image into the ocean floor that you use that you experiencedduring your treatment.
And it also kind of lends itself to the title of the book.
Can you explain what you experienced there and how that sort of impacted you?
(18:48):
Yeah, I'm saying it was during my first week of treatment and chemotherapy withchemotherapy, I became desperately ill with sepsis.
I think the best thing to is if I can just read you just a very short passage out of thebook.
OK.
Once my husband leaves and I'm taken from A &E, any vestures of fighting spirit leave mybody.
(19:12):
I vaguely aware of being wheeled down through the labyrinth and corridors of the hospitalto the acute medical unit.
where I'm placed in an isolation room.
As the door closes, I once again descend down through the waters, away from the light,slowly, gently, until my limbs settle on the distant ocean floor.
(19:33):
Swaddled in the stillness of the deep, enveloped in silence, all conscious thought ebbsaway on the tide.
I bathe in the stillness and silence permeates my soul.
Lulled by the invisible rhythm of the depths, time loses its meaning.
Dreams meld with reality as I rest on the far sea bed, until gradually, in that liminalspace, I begin to sense something other.
(19:59):
The numinous, a presence vast and uncontained, indefinable but tangible.
An encounter with something endless and eternal, there in the pressing water.
And together we wait in silence.
rocked in the arms of the deep.
It's the beginning of what I call my ocean floor experience, which was a vision, amystical experience of God.
(20:24):
And paradoxically, To the Ocean Floor is a book about an experience that goes beyondwords, which is quite a challenge as a writer.
actually, as I began writing, I found that words began to rearrange themselves inunfamiliar patterns that at times prose merges into poetry.
When I recovered, I began to explore some of the really early traditions that go right theway back to the Dawn of Christianity, which had comparable types of visions, go right the
(20:57):
way back to Paul, the Desert Fathers.
And I discovered this contemplative tradition, I said it this time, that goes right theway back, which emphasizes on finding God in silence and solitude.
Now remember this is in the midst of the pandemic, so I spent a lot of time in isolation.
(21:18):
I was isolated in hospital rooms, but also from my family as well.
And during that time, I began to explore these traditions and they really challenged me.
I'm a raving extrovert.
And suddenly I found I was being called to a more introverted relationship with God.
I'm also a rationalist.
I'm an ex-current affairs journalist.
And this was about a tradition that went beyond reason.
(21:42):
And it involved meditation.
Now I was not sure what I thought about that because I'd spent, I understood I'd spentsome time in the East.
But I soon realised actually this form of meditation was very different from somethinglike Buddhism, which is all about kind of negation of self really.
This was more about coming fully into the presence of God.
(22:03):
And it was so powerful.
And as I began to practice this meditation, I began to find my way back.
to that intensity of that experience and was able to sit with him during this and to findthat stillness in the center of the storm.
It was very powerful.
Thank you.
(22:24):
For those listeners who might be facing cancer themselves or who might be in the midst oftreatment, what are some of the things that you might say to them?
Well first of all this is not an easy road.
Excuse me saying chemo is pants, there's no doubt about it.
But God is much bigger than any challenge we face and I think sometimes we're in danger ofmaking God too small.
(22:50):
He can do more than we can ever imagine.
The fact that I'm here today speaking to you is proof of that.
In actual fact, sea change tells the whole story, my actually began before the treatmentstarted.
My cancer began to treat before the treatment started.
And I think his power can be perfect in our weakness.
(23:11):
I think some of the most powerful words in the Bible are from Psalm 4610, be still andknow that I am God.
in all his enormity, in all his power.
And one of the reasons I wrote to the Ocean Floor is that actually I wanted to help otherpeople do that.
And so my book does not only share my own experience of doing that, it shares resources tohelp others do that as well, whatever trials they're facing.
(23:38):
really good.
And for listeners who have loved ones facing cancer and they're of sitting on the otherside of the fence as it were,
What would you say to them?
Oh, it's it's so hard I often think it's actually harder for Loved ones than those whoactually going to treat themselves, you know yourself once you get in the system It's a
(23:58):
bit like you're a sausage machine.
You're just gonna keep going But others but your loved ones left standing on the shorekind of feeling very helpless I know my own family suffered a great deal through this
A few years ago I was actually interviewed by Premier Radio, I remember the presentersaying to me, said it's really strange, said it's almost as if cancer was a gift.
(24:20):
I've thought lot about that statement since and of course I wish I hadn't had cancer.
I really wish my family hadn't been through this.
But it's hard to wish away everything that came with that because I think with theawareness for mortality sometimes we can become even more aware of our being alive, the
vibrancy of being alive.
(24:42):
and the sense of God's presence tangible.
And think one of the best things that your loved ones do is be aware of that and recognisethat within all this pain, there can be real joy in God's presence and to be aware of that
and to help enable that.
Mm, really good.
And I know we've been focusing quite a lot on cancer because obviously that's what youwrote your book about.
(25:08):
But I guess some of the stuff that God
did and spoke to you can be applied much broader than just to someone with cancer.
It can be applied to sort of any big trial or time of suffering, whatever that may looklike in somebody's life.
(25:29):
So how can we all embrace times of trial and suffering in ways that will lead us to agreater connection with God and a strengthening of faith rather than
it being destroyed by it?
Yeah, very good question.
There's a writer called Francesca, called Richard Raw.
Do you know Richard Raw?
(25:49):
So I've got a number of people will do.
And he writes about something called the two halves of life faith.
In the first half of life, we're seeking to find control and to understand and we ask thequestion, why has this happened?
But in our second half of life faith, and this can happen at any stage in your journey, itcan happen when you're very young, it's not chronological.
(26:12):
We learn to embrace uncertainty and the paradox of life, the paradox of faith, to actuallyembrace that mystery.
And then we begin to ask instead, what is God doing here?
And I think our God is one of transformation.
We're all on journey as Christians that are about transforming, about transforming theimage of Christ.
And I think he uses all the circumstances of our lives to transform us.
(26:36):
But I think this process of transformation is sometimes supercharged by the challenges inlife.
For example, when I became ill, I was charging around the world getting on and off planesand buses.
was chief communications officer for the charity World Vision International.
And when I was brought to a standstill, it was a real shock.
But for the first time in my life, I was able to look back and see how God had been atwork.
(27:01):
And I began to see how he'd used all the circumstances.
He'd been there in the mountaintop moments and in the valleys, bringing me slowly back tohim.
after I reject him as a young woman.
Now I think there's a wonderful word for to wait in the Old Testament, Huber Hebrew word,kawa, to wait is to kawa, which means to wait in anticipation of what God can do.
(27:26):
I don't believe for a moment that God gives us trials, I don't think he gives us cancer,but I think what we can do is we can recognise that he may be using this moment and to
kawa, to learn to wait and kawa and to see what
he might be doing there and I think he can do extraordinary things through that awarenessif we allow ourselves to become aware of that.
(27:49):
Mm-hmm, really good.
Thank you Kate.
We are talking with the author Kate Nicholas about her book To the Ocean Floor, obviouslypaperback but also the audiobook version.
We'll be back just after these and we'll be finding out a bit more about Kate's life andfaith so join us after these.
(28:10):
If you enjoy listening to this podcast, you can help keep it on the web.
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Head over to buymeacoffee.com slash Matt McChlery to make a donation.
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(28:36):
Hello, welcome back to the Christian Book Blurb.
We've been chatting with author Kate Nicholas about her book To the Ocean Floor thatrecently won a CRT award for best audiobook.
Now, Kate, what we like to do after the interval is get to know the author a little bitbetter, although we've got to know you quite well already because your writing and your
(28:56):
book and everything sort of has told us a lot about you already.
But here's a good one for you.
What do you like to do for fun?
Ah, well, I love traveling.
I spent a lot of my life traveling.
I met my husband when spending two and a half years traveling in Asia and Australia.
He's an Australian Lithuanian who I met when I was working at UNICEF in Sydney.
(29:19):
I married, I thought I was going live on Bondi Beach, but I married an Australian whowants to live here.
So I now live near Milton Keynes.
But I also love being on the water.
Water has been a theme throughout my life.
I will get into and get onto any body of water.
love wild swimming.
But mainly my husband and I are mad on paddle boarding.
(29:39):
Neither of can surf because our knees are shot.
But we love paddle boarding.
We've paddle boarded all over the world.
We recently spent time off the coast of Wales in the open sea.
And I can now navigate a one meter wave without falling off.
Wow, well done.
But it is quite athletic, but it's also very reflective.
(30:01):
There's something about being out on the open water and actually something about the seaand about something about kind of the horizon and what it says about this idea of God's
eternal promise and something about the waves and about what they say about the tides oflife really I suppose.
So I love being on water.
(30:22):
But I do do, I'm also a preacher, I'm a lay minister at the Church of St Peter and St PaulNoni.
where Amazing Grace was written.
So I'm on the ministry team there.
And the other things I do is I'm a trustee on the board of Christians Against Poverty,which is incredibly important to me.
that's great.
(30:42):
And have you got any favorite things to eat or maybe watch on the telly or anything likethat?
any particular favorites at the moment?
Well, I don't have a huge to speak to, thank goodness, because sugar isn't meant to bevery good for cancer, but I do love coffee.
I got very addicted to it.
When working in a newsroom, I got rather addicted to it because we have free express thatis available.
(31:06):
When I gave it up, I discovered that I was actually addicted.
So I now drink decaf.
In terms of things that I'd love to watch on television, I love to watch Brian Cox on BBC.
There's something about I'm very interested in cosmology and evolutionary biology.
I think there's something about the sheer wonder of God's creation.
I love.
(31:27):
I find I love the fact that the world is far more mysterious than we could ever begin toimagine.
And I'm very interested, I'm not an expert on things like quantum physics, because I thinkthe deeper we get into science, the more mysterious our world becomes and the closer we
seem to come to God.
Hmm.
Really interesting.
Really good.
(31:47):
So one of my questions was going to be, do you prefer tea or coffee?
Well, I think you've already answered that one quite conclusively.
We've just had Christmas and so with your Christmas traditions and all that sort of thing,is it a traditional Christmas roast with Christmas pudding or is it something more, I
(32:10):
don't know, modern or contemporary or I know some in my family hate Christmas pudding sowe have to provide an alternative for them.
What's your take on sort of traditional Christmas food?
Well, we have a rather different Christmas tradition because my husband says his familywere Lithuanian refugees following the Second World War to Australia.
And they brought with them a wonderful tradition called kutas, which is on Christmas Eve,we have an amazing meal made up of 12 dishes, mainly made up of herring.
(32:39):
You've got to like herring if you're married to a Lithuanian.
And so we celebrate on Christmas Eve as a family.
It's a beautiful tradition with those rituals attached to it.
More like a Seda meal, really.
And then we then have my version on Christmas Day.
We have the English version on Christmas Day, which involves a goose actually for goose toTurkey.
(32:59):
that's a lot of eating there.
That is a lot of eating.
I usually go on the diet about Boxing Day.
Yeah, don't blame you.
Really good.
We've been speaking about sort of some fun, fun things.
I suppose this is still fun, but it's more from like the sublime to the ridiculous or theridiculous to the sublime.
I'm getting my words all in a muddle today.
(33:20):
Never mind.
So on a bit more of a serious note, what is the Holy Spirit doing or saying in your lifeat the moment?
Well, since my ocean floor experience, I have spent a lot more time in silence, inmeditation.
I still very much involved my church.
I'm so important to the path of church family.
(33:41):
But I found that this contemplative tradition and spending time in meditating in silence,
is becoming a very important part of my life.
And interestingly, I found that it's changed the way that I see the world.
Even back when I was in hospital, I began to become much more aware of Christ around me.
I write about that a lot in the book.
(34:01):
In fact, I dedicated the book to the staff, wonderful staff of the NHS, I think, throughwhom I saw Christ's compassion on many occasions.
But also in nature, I found a very interesting Celtic Christianity, which is about
being more aware that in Him we live and move and have our being.
And I love walking out in nature and just being aware.
(34:24):
find the Holy Spirit is just making me much more aware of this idea of existing withinGod's Spirit and being imbued with God's Spirit.
It's very powerful.
so this whole, find it, I think some people might think meditation is a self-indulgent.
I don't think it is at all.
it changes the way we see the world, makes us more aware of God within, God around, butalso God in others.
(34:52):
Have you got anything coming up soon?
I know you dropped a subtle hint earlier on.
What's coming up from Kate Nicholas?
Well, it's not going to come out till spring 2026, but I'm currently working on my nextbook.
I've just on about a third of the way through writing it and it's called Seeking AmazingGrace Following in the Footsteps of John Duke.
And it's not another book about John Newton's history.
(35:14):
It's another journey.
I think the best way put it is Bill Bryson plus God.
OK.
So that's coming out in spring 2026.
we look forward to that.
And where can we find you on social media or websites?
(35:34):
Where can we find the audiobook as well as your physical books?
How can we?
get more into your writing.
Brilliant.
Well, yeah, I'm on social media.
I've got a Facebook author page.
I'm Kate Nicholas' author.
Instagram, Kate Nicholas, and I'm also on TikTok, Kate Nicholas Writes.
You can get my books at any Christian bookstore, but also online at Amazon, Waltstones,Eden, Aslan, any online retailer.
(36:01):
And as you say, they're available in Payback, Kindle, and To the Ocean Floor is availableas an audiobook on Audible and other audio channels.
But also,
To make that simple, if you go to my website, caitenicholas.co.uk has all the links toeverything.
And it has information about my books.
has information.
It has, can watch my television series with TBN, Living a Transform Life.
(36:24):
And it's also got my course on there, Write Your Soul Story.
Well, thank you, Kate.
It's been a joy chatting with you today and learning so much about you and your books.
Well, thank you, Matt.
And thank you as well for listening to this episode of the Christian Book Blob.
Don't forget we come out once, no, twice a month.
(36:46):
it's still early in the new year.
I need to get my head around this.
We come out twice a month on the first and the 15th of the month.
So I will be back really soon speaking with another fantastic Christian author, all abouttheir books, their lives and their faith.
Thank you so much.
I'll see you in a few weeks time.
Goodbye.
Thanks for listening to Christian Book Blurb with your host Matt McChlery.
(37:11):
Do give it a like, give it a share and let your friends know all about it.
We do hope to see you again soon on another Christian Book Blurb.
This is Christian Book Blurb brought to you by author and songwriter Matt McChlery Get abehind the scenes glimpse into the lives of some of your favourite Christian authors, hear
about their books and faith.
Also, why not check out my website, mattmcleary.com.
Well, hello and welcome to another edition of the Christian Book Blurb.
(00:21):
We like to encourage you in your discipleship one book at a time as we meet some amazingChristian authors and learn about their books.
their lives and their faith.
Well, I'm your host, Matt McChlery.
Thanks for clicking over and joining me today.
Now on today's show, I'm going to be talking about audio books and also somebody's ownpersonal experience of living through cancer with the author, Kate Nicholas.
(00:52):
So let's welcome Kate to the show.
Hi, Kate.
Hi Matt.
It's so good to be here.
Thanks very much.
Yeah, thanks for joining me.
It's great to have you here.
your book, one of your books, because I know you've got a few, one of your books is calledTo the Ocean Floor, and it recently won a CRT award.
(01:15):
So that stands for Christian Resources Together.
And it won that award for the best audiobook in 2024.
For those listeners who don't know, CRT is like the, it's the Christian Book Award thatyou want to win in the UK.
It's like, it's the one that counts.
(01:36):
So congratulations.
Well, thank you.
I was blown away by it.
was wonderful.
Yeah.
To the ocean floor.
It's actually about my second cancer journey during the pandemic and how it became agateway into a profound connection with God.
I wasn't the first time I was diagnosed.
I first diagnosed with stage four advanced cancer in 2014 that spread around my heart andaround my meds, my lungs.
(02:01):
And I wasn't expected to survive more than about 12 months.
But as I always say, spoiler alert, the fact that I'm here talking to you today shows thatGod did something amazing.
And I went into remission for seven months.
But in the midst of the pandemic, the cancer came back again.
And that's what this book is about.
It came back with a vengeance and it's a book about how I connected with God in thestillness at the center of this whole storm I was caught up in.
(02:30):
And I think one thing I love is Gerald Kelly, the poet Gerald Kelly said, it's a powerfulaccount of the richness to be found at the borders of life's journey, which I think sums
it up rather well.
And something I found with it as well is,
Yes, it doesn't shy away from the experience that you went through.
(02:55):
Some of it is quite honest and raw, which is great because I think, and we might talkabout this a bit later, it's important for people to hear stories like this.
But it's not just solely that.
There's a lot of spiritual journey in there and
(03:17):
God at work, even entire whole chapters of just this is what God's doing, this is whatGod's saying, this is how I've connected to God in this way or that way.
So yeah it's not just one-dimensional I think is what I'm trying to say.
It gives a nicely kind of well-rounded view of your experience from the practical side butalso the spiritual side.
(03:46):
which is really good.
audiobook.
Let's, let's come back to audiobooks.
So this one, an audiobook award.
Now what's it like recording an audiobook?
Well, it's great fun.
It's slightly bizarre.
I spent about three days locked in a small padded cell about the size of a telephone box.
(04:08):
I'm reading my own book.
I actually thought it would probably be read by an actor or professional, but,
My publishers decided they wanted me to do it.
I must say I have got a lot of experience working radio and in television.
So I decided that I was going to do this.
And I thought it would be, I don't know what I thought it would be, but it was veryintense and it was incredibly moving.
(04:31):
I was quite surprised by the intensity.
There's a scene in it where I'm separated by my husband by COVID rules.
And when I read it and came to this, was, I got quite upset.
There was a real catch in my voice.
And I immediately said to the producer, sorry, I'll do that again.
And he said, no, he said, no, it's that, as you talked about that vulnerability, thatauthenticity that makes it so powerful.
(04:54):
And of course he was absolutely right, which is why I think he got the CRT awards becauseI had such great advice doing this.
And if someone else is probably thinking about maybe recording an audio book, if there'sany
authors or budding writers out there, what are some of the things you think they need toknow about the audiobook recording process if they're going to prepare for something like
(05:20):
that?
Yeah well I think what I would say is that try and write as if you're going to do anaudiobook.
I've actually now, with the book I'm working on now which we'll talk about later, I'mactually, as I write it, I'm reading it out loud.
because one of the first things I discovered when I got into my telephone box was ofcourse that I got so many Greek and Hebrew words in it and I had to make sure I was
(05:43):
absolutely right on the pronunciation and I had a real problem with the word contemplativewhich we're sure we'll talk about is very prominent in the book.
So I kept stumbling over this.
So I think really writing a book as if it's going to be read aloud.
And I think the second thing is practice, practice, practice because
By the time you get in, you need to be able to pace each scene accordingly.
(06:06):
You aren't just reading a book in a way you're acting the book, because you need to beable to immerse the reader totally in a way in your story.
And so you need to bring the words alive for them.
It is a wonderful process.
I'd really recommend to anyone thinking about it that do please do it.
It's a fantastic thing to do.
(06:27):
Mm Really good.
And audio books are.
growing aren't they?
They're in popularity, they're kind of skyrocketing and shooting through the roof and insome some areas of the market.
Why do you think audiobooks are so popular?
Well they're incredibly accessible aren't they?
I'm seeing a lot of people could have listened to them when they're driving or doing otherthings, doing the housework.
(06:49):
I I really connected with the power of audiobooks when I was ill because I reached a pointwhich I talked about in the book that I was just unable to read.
I just was too ill to read.
And that's when I began to listen to audiobooks and it was an incredibly powerfulexperience.
was listening to audiobooks about faith.
I was listening to some healing scriptures as well.
And I think I can't speak about why every single type of audiobook is popular, but I thinkwhen it comes to books about faith, about personal faith and about spirituality, I think
(07:19):
it's really profound to hear directly from the author.
It's as if you're able to inhabit their mind, their world for a while.
that you're actually able to experience their faith experience.
And that is an incredibly powerful thing.
Maybe for people who have seekers, people who haven't yet met Jesus, to be able to heardirectly from the author and to be able to inhabit that space where they're meeting with
(07:44):
Jesus is just incredible.
Hmm, really good.
Some listeners might know that I'm a cancer survivor myself in some of the...
early days of the podcast, I was on the other end of the microphone and interviewed abouta book that I had written about my experience of surviving stage four cancer, different
(08:07):
type of cancer to yours.
But I must say reading your book, there were a lot of moments I was nodding my head going,yes, that's what I felt as well.
So it's a very poignant and insightful.
Do you think it's important to share stories like this?
(08:29):
absolutely, absolutely.
And I'm very glad that you said, first of all, praise the Lord that you're here and you'vegot through cancer as well.
I think the fact you shared your story is really powerful.
Throughout the Bible, God's people are encouraged and even commanded to share what He'sdone for them.
When I was first diagnosed with stage four, and was breast cancer I was diagnosed with,and I can say one thing.
(08:52):
Ladies, if you're offered a mammogram, please go and have one.
And gentlemen, if you're ladies, if anyone you know is offered a mammogram, pleaseencourage them because it saved my life.
But when I was first diagnosed, I was given a passage from Psalm 118 and 17.
I will not die, but will live and declare the works of the Lord.
And I tell you, I hung on to that passage like a life raft.
(09:18):
And I began.
this whole writing journey, because I've started to write down my story for my children.
I started to put together photograph albums, but I soon realised that they didn't showanything about how I saw the world, what I believed, so I started to write what I call my
soul story, really, my experience of God.
(09:39):
And this became my first book, my memoir, Change, which tells the story of my ratherunconventional faith journey, my story of healing.
And that was actually a short list of CRT
Christian Bogg for the year.
And out of that, my life changed.
I started going and talking at churches, at Christian events all over the UK as far afieldas Kenya and Australia.
(10:00):
And I then did a show on TBN.
I presented a show on TBN called Living a Transformed Life where I had guests in.
And I began to hear all these amazing stories that other people had to tell.
And I began to think, I began to realise, I think all of us have got a soul story.
I think a story about that
part of us that connects with God.
(10:20):
Well, people think their lives aren't dramatic enough, but I think God can use all thecircumstances of our lives.
And he wants us to understand that story because I think then we can see the meaning andpurpose in our lives.
And I think he wants us to share that story because people can argue with our theology,but they can't argue with your authentic experience of God.
(10:41):
And which is, yeah, so I wrote this, like out of this came a book called Soul Scribe,which is a guide to understanding.
and sharing your soul story, which takes people through the different chapters of theirlives.
And it asks questions that all build up into a kind of narrative they can share withfamily and friends.
And I even launched an online course called Write Your Soul Story, which is to help peopledo as we've done and to share their story.
(11:04):
But I think it's so powerful because for some people, we may be the only Bible they everread.
You know, we may be their introduction to Jesus.
And for a topic like
cancer as well.
It's such a taboo topic in society.
I mean, some people don't even speak its name.
(11:27):
They just call it the big C or something.
They don't even want to say the word cancer.
And people who are going through it sometimes just completely clam up or they don't feelable to share what's going on inside them.
And then you have everyone else.
in their lives kind of feeling sort of pushed away or blocked out because they don't quiteknow how to deal with it or relate to the person because they don't really know what the
(11:57):
person's going through.
And so I think just for those of us who do feel called to share big moments in our liveslike this that call for lot of vulnerability and openness and I know some people aren't
able to go there.
that's okay, but for those of us who are, it just helps to give a bit of that insight andunderstanding and maybe help those, or even relatives of those, who might be experiencing
(12:28):
similar things to try and gain a bit of an insight or something to help that time in theirlives.
yeah, and as you say as well about sharing faith through it is very important as well.
you mentioned, that your experience was more like saying in the book, you say that it wasmore like saying thy will be done rather than battling cancer.
(12:56):
know in lots of adverts I find they sort of say, we're going to fight cancer and we'regoing to, you know, kick cancer where the sun don't shine and all this kind of stuff.
But having been there myself, it doesn't really feel like that.
felt really weak and at the mercy of everything.
What are your thoughts on it?
Well, I think that we use this term battling cancer because it gives us a sense of agencyin a situation that is basically completely outside of our control.
(13:24):
Where we have none, yeah.
Yeah.
I've been a bona fide control freak all my life.
And I remember when I first started eating, when I first was diagnosed, I went out andbought a juicer and I started eating vast quantities of kale.
And I remember praying each morning, putting on the armor of God, you know.
Like, you know, I put on the belt of truth that you are Jehovah, wrath of the God whoheals.
(13:45):
But I think that what I felt was that I was being called to trust in God.
Now, I don't, I'm very clear in my book, I don't know why some people are healed and someare not.
I constantly wonder at the fact that I'm still here.
And I thank the Lord each day.
say, this is the day the Lord has made and I'll rejoice and be glad in it.
I make very clear in my books that I don't think anyone should fight cancer on a diet ofprayer and carrots.
(14:10):
I believe that doctors are God's hands and feet.
believe that all the wisdom that has created all these great medical breakthroughs comesfrom God.
But I think what I have come to realize is that God's referral healing is actuallysomething bigger than maybe even a cure.
And I think that the real healing that I experienced was this extraordinary peace that
(14:35):
really did pass all understanding.
In Sea Change, my first book, I write about how when I was diagnosed this extraordinarycalm came upon me, to the point where the oncologist kept saying to me, you do understand
the implications of what I'm telling you, don't you Kate?
I said, yeah, yeah, I do.
You're telling me I'm dying.
He couldn't quite understand how I could be so calm.
(14:56):
But I think this sense of God's presence I felt throughout was almost incandescent.
It was as if for a while,
I was standing on the border between the natural and the supernatural.
And I think that sense of his presence, I think that sense of peace, I think is probablyhis greatest healing.
(15:17):
And I think I can say, I think with authenticity, that even if I had not survived, I thinkI would still have been healed.
that makes sense.
You know, having been there myself, that's one of the amazing things.
It happened to me as well.
(15:37):
I had this immense sense of peace through the whole thing.
I don't think I would have made it without that carrying me through.
I find it quite frightening thinking about how people do deal with this without faith.
I think it must be a terrible person.
Another thing that I found very interesting
in your book To the Ocean Floor is you said that I think one of the most deeply damagingsuggestions is that our survival relates to the depth of our faith.
(16:12):
So how does the statement square up with those parts of scripture that seem to link faithand healing in your experience?
Yeah, this is something I've written out quite a lot, both into the ocean floor and mymemoir, Sea Change.
When I first became ill, I started studying what the Bible had to say about healing.
(16:33):
And I realized that, I realized first of all, that it is God's perfect will to heal.
You know, in Exodus 15, 26, he says, I am the God who heals, I am Jehovah Rapha.
And of course, there are great examples within Jesus' own healings of where faith did playa part, you know, that wonderful story in Mark 5 where, you know,
The woman in the crowd reaches out to touch his cloak and he says to her, daughter, yourfaith has made you well.
(16:57):
Go in peace and be healed of your disease.
And there's also examples of others' faith, that lovely story in Luke 5 where the friendslower their friend, their paralysed friend down through the roof.
And Jesus says, when he saw their faith, he said to them, your sins are forgiven.
But there are also examples of where people had little faith or no faith.
(17:19):
I'm seeing all the 20 mass healings, 20 plus mass healings that took place.
There's no indication that every single person in that crowd utterly had utter faith.
And I think one of my favorite stories is the one about, in John 5, about the paganworshipping lame man at the pool of Bethesda who went asked afterwards who healed him,
(17:41):
said he didn't know.
He hadn't got a clue who Jesus was.
And yet Jesus was still able to form this extraordinary miracle.
Yeah, I think it's really human to think that if we only pray a little harder, if we onlyserve the Lord a little better, that we'll be healed.
But that's not how God's grace works.
You know, we can't earn healing.
(18:03):
And I think if we think we can, I think it's a terrible burden to bear.
I think what we are called to do is to surrender to His perfect will and to pray, thy willbe done and actually mean it.
Yeah, that's it.
And they make that choice.
to actually trust that he will do what is right for our lives, not for our life.
(18:25):
Yeah, that's really good.
Thank you.
And you have a recurring image into the ocean floor that you use that you experiencedduring your treatment.
And it also kind of lends itself to the title of the book.
Can you explain what you experienced there and how that sort of impacted you?
(18:48):
Yeah, I'm saying it was during my first week of treatment and chemotherapy withchemotherapy, I became desperately ill with sepsis.
I think the best thing to is if I can just read you just a very short passage out of thebook.
OK.
Once my husband leaves and I'm taken from A &E, any vestures of fighting spirit leave mybody.
(19:12):
I vaguely aware of being wheeled down through the labyrinth and corridors of the hospitalto the acute medical unit.
where I'm placed in an isolation room.
As the door closes, I once again descend down through the waters, away from the light,slowly, gently, until my limbs settle on the distant ocean floor.
(19:33):
Swaddled in the stillness of the deep, enveloped in silence, all conscious thought ebbsaway on the tide.
I bathe in the stillness and silence permeates my soul.
Lulled by the invisible rhythm of the depths, time loses its meaning.
Dreams meld with reality as I rest on the far sea bed, until gradually, in that liminalspace, I begin to sense something other.
(19:59):
The numinous, a presence vast and uncontained, indefinable but tangible.
An encounter with something endless and eternal, there in the pressing water.
And together we wait in silence.
rocked in the arms of the deep.
It's the beginning of what I call my ocean floor experience, which was a vision, amystical experience of God.
(20:24):
And paradoxically, To the Ocean Floor is a book about an experience that goes beyondwords, which is quite a challenge as a writer.
actually, as I began writing, I found that words began to rearrange themselves inunfamiliar patterns that at times prose merges into poetry.
When I recovered, I began to explore some of the really early traditions that go right theway back to the Dawn of Christianity, which had comparable types of visions, go right the
(20:57):
way back to Paul, the Desert Fathers.
And I discovered this contemplative tradition, I said it this time, that goes right theway back, which emphasizes on finding God in silence and solitude.
Now remember this is in the midst of the pandemic, so I spent a lot of time in isolation.
(21:18):
I was isolated in hospital rooms, but also from my family as well.
And during that time, I began to explore these traditions and they really challenged me.
I'm a raving extrovert.
And suddenly I found I was being called to a more introverted relationship with God.
I'm also a rationalist.
I'm an ex-current affairs journalist.
And this was about a tradition that went beyond reason.
(21:42):
And it involved meditation.
Now I was not sure what I thought about that because I'd spent, I understood I'd spentsome time in the East.
But I soon realised actually this form of meditation was very different from somethinglike Buddhism, which is all about kind of negation of self really.
This was more about coming fully into the presence of God.
(22:03):
And it was so powerful.
And as I began to practice this meditation, I began to find my way back.
to that intensity of that experience and was able to sit with him during this and to findthat stillness in the center of the storm.
It was very powerful.
Thank you.
(22:24):
For those listeners who might be facing cancer themselves or who might be in the midst oftreatment, what are some of the things that you might say to them?
Well first of all this is not an easy road.
Excuse me saying chemo is pants, there's no doubt about it.
But God is much bigger than any challenge we face and I think sometimes we're in danger ofmaking God too small.
(22:50):
He can do more than we can ever imagine.
The fact that I'm here today speaking to you is proof of that.
In actual fact, sea change tells the whole story, my actually began before the treatmentstarted.
My cancer began to treat before the treatment started.
And I think his power can be perfect in our weakness.
(23:11):
I think some of the most powerful words in the Bible are from Psalm 4610, be still andknow that I am God.
in all his enormity, in all his power.
And one of the reasons I wrote to the Ocean Floor is that actually I wanted to help otherpeople do that.
And so my book does not only share my own experience of doing that, it shares resources tohelp others do that as well, whatever trials they're facing.
(23:38):
really good.
And for listeners who have loved ones facing cancer and they're of sitting on the otherside of the fence as it were,
What would you say to them?
Oh, it's it's so hard I often think it's actually harder for Loved ones than those whoactually going to treat themselves, you know yourself once you get in the system It's a
(23:58):
bit like you're a sausage machine.
You're just gonna keep going But others but your loved ones left standing on the shorekind of feeling very helpless I know my own family suffered a great deal through this
A few years ago I was actually interviewed by Premier Radio, I remember the presentersaying to me, said it's really strange, said it's almost as if cancer was a gift.
(24:20):
I've thought lot about that statement since and of course I wish I hadn't had cancer.
I really wish my family hadn't been through this.
But it's hard to wish away everything that came with that because I think with theawareness for mortality sometimes we can become even more aware of our being alive, the
vibrancy of being alive.
(24:42):
and the sense of God's presence tangible.
And think one of the best things that your loved ones do is be aware of that and recognisethat within all this pain, there can be real joy in God's presence and to be aware of that
and to help enable that.
Mm, really good.
And I know we've been focusing quite a lot on cancer because obviously that's what youwrote your book about.
(25:08):
But I guess some of the stuff that God
did and spoke to you can be applied much broader than just to someone with cancer.
It can be applied to sort of any big trial or time of suffering, whatever that may looklike in somebody's life.
(25:29):
So how can we all embrace times of trial and suffering in ways that will lead us to agreater connection with God and a strengthening of faith rather than
it being destroyed by it?
Yeah, very good question.
There's a writer called Francesca, called Richard Raw.
Do you know Richard Raw?
(25:49):
So I've got a number of people will do.
And he writes about something called the two halves of life faith.
In the first half of life, we're seeking to find control and to understand and we ask thequestion, why has this happened?
But in our second half of life faith, and this can happen at any stage in your journey, itcan happen when you're very young, it's not chronological.
(26:12):
We learn to embrace uncertainty and the paradox of life, the paradox of faith, to actuallyembrace that mystery.
And then we begin to ask instead, what is God doing here?
And I think our God is one of transformation.
We're all on journey as Christians that are about transforming, about transforming theimage of Christ.
And I think he uses all the circumstances of our lives to transform us.
(26:36):
But I think this process of transformation is sometimes supercharged by the challenges inlife.
For example, when I became ill, I was charging around the world getting on and off planesand buses.
was chief communications officer for the charity World Vision International.
And when I was brought to a standstill, it was a real shock.
But for the first time in my life, I was able to look back and see how God had been atwork.
(27:01):
And I began to see how he'd used all the circumstances.
He'd been there in the mountaintop moments and in the valleys, bringing me slowly back tohim.
after I reject him as a young woman.
Now I think there's a wonderful word for to wait in the Old Testament, Huber Hebrew word,kawa, to wait is to kawa, which means to wait in anticipation of what God can do.
(27:26):
I don't believe for a moment that God gives us trials, I don't think he gives us cancer,but I think what we can do is we can recognise that he may be using this moment and to
kawa, to learn to wait and kawa and to see what
he might be doing there and I think he can do extraordinary things through that awarenessif we allow ourselves to become aware of that.
(27:49):
Mm-hmm, really good.
Thank you Kate.
We are talking with the author Kate Nicholas about her book To the Ocean Floor, obviouslypaperback but also the audiobook version.
We'll be back just after these and we'll be finding out a bit more about Kate's life andfaith so join us after these.
(28:10):
If you enjoy listening to this podcast, you can help keep it on the web.
All you've got to do is buy me a coffee.
Head over to buymeacoffee.com slash Matt McChlery to make a donation.
There is a link in this episode's show notes.
So go on, buy me a coffee today and help this podcast to keep supporting Christian booksand authors.
(28:36):
Hello, welcome back to the Christian Book Blurb.
We've been chatting with author Kate Nicholas about her book To the Ocean Floor thatrecently won a CRT award for best audiobook.
Now, Kate, what we like to do after the interval is get to know the author a little bitbetter, although we've got to know you quite well already because your writing and your
(28:56):
book and everything sort of has told us a lot about you already.
But here's a good one for you.
What do you like to do for fun?
Ah, well, I love traveling.
I spent a lot of my life traveling.
I met my husband when spending two and a half years traveling in Asia and Australia.
He's an Australian Lithuanian who I met when I was working at UNICEF in Sydney.
(29:19):
I married, I thought I was going live on Bondi Beach, but I married an Australian whowants to live here.
So I now live near Milton Keynes.
But I also love being on the water.
Water has been a theme throughout my life.
I will get into and get onto any body of water.
love wild swimming.
But mainly my husband and I are mad on paddle boarding.
(29:39):
Neither of can surf because our knees are shot.
But we love paddle boarding.
We've paddle boarded all over the world.
We recently spent time off the coast of Wales in the open sea.
And I can now navigate a one meter wave without falling off.
Wow, well done.
But it is quite athletic, but it's also very reflective.
(30:01):
There's something about being out on the open water and actually something about the seaand about something about kind of the horizon and what it says about this idea of God's
eternal promise and something about the waves and about what they say about the tides oflife really I suppose.
So I love being on water.
(30:22):
But I do do, I'm also a preacher, I'm a lay minister at the Church of St Peter and St PaulNoni.
where Amazing Grace was written.
So I'm on the ministry team there.
And the other things I do is I'm a trustee on the board of Christians Against Poverty,which is incredibly important to me.
that's great.
(30:42):
And have you got any favorite things to eat or maybe watch on the telly or anything likethat?
any particular favorites at the moment?
Well, I don't have a huge to speak to, thank goodness, because sugar isn't meant to bevery good for cancer, but I do love coffee.
I got very addicted to it.
When working in a newsroom, I got rather addicted to it because we have free express thatis available.
(31:06):
When I gave it up, I discovered that I was actually addicted.
So I now drink decaf.
In terms of things that I'd love to watch on television, I love to watch Brian Cox on BBC.
There's something about I'm very interested in cosmology and evolutionary biology.
I think there's something about the sheer wonder of God's creation.
I love.
(31:27):
I find I love the fact that the world is far more mysterious than we could ever begin toimagine.
And I'm very interested, I'm not an expert on things like quantum physics, because I thinkthe deeper we get into science, the more mysterious our world becomes and the closer we
seem to come to God.
Hmm.
Really interesting.
Really good.
(31:47):
So one of my questions was going to be, do you prefer tea or coffee?
Well, I think you've already answered that one quite conclusively.
We've just had Christmas and so with your Christmas traditions and all that sort of thing,is it a traditional Christmas roast with Christmas pudding or is it something more, I
(32:10):
don't know, modern or contemporary or I know some in my family hate Christmas pudding sowe have to provide an alternative for them.
What's your take on sort of traditional Christmas food?
Well, we have a rather different Christmas tradition because my husband says his familywere Lithuanian refugees following the Second World War to Australia.
And they brought with them a wonderful tradition called kutas, which is on Christmas Eve,we have an amazing meal made up of 12 dishes, mainly made up of herring.
(32:39):
You've got to like herring if you're married to a Lithuanian.
And so we celebrate on Christmas Eve as a family.
It's a beautiful tradition with those rituals attached to it.
More like a Seda meal, really.
And then we then have my version on Christmas Day.
We have the English version on Christmas Day, which involves a goose actually for goose toTurkey.
(32:59):
that's a lot of eating there.
That is a lot of eating.
I usually go on the diet about Boxing Day.
Yeah, don't blame you.
Really good.
We've been speaking about sort of some fun, fun things.
I suppose this is still fun, but it's more from like the sublime to the ridiculous or theridiculous to the sublime.
I'm getting my words all in a muddle today.
(33:20):
Never mind.
So on a bit more of a serious note, what is the Holy Spirit doing or saying in your lifeat the moment?
Well, since my ocean floor experience, I have spent a lot more time in silence, inmeditation.
I still very much involved my church.
I'm so important to the path of church family.
(33:41):
But I found that this contemplative tradition and spending time in meditating in silence,
is becoming a very important part of my life.
And interestingly, I found that it's changed the way that I see the world.
Even back when I was in hospital, I began to become much more aware of Christ around me.
I write about that a lot in the book.
(34:01):
In fact, I dedicated the book to the staff, wonderful staff of the NHS, I think, throughwhom I saw Christ's compassion on many occasions.
But also in nature, I found a very interesting Celtic Christianity, which is about
being more aware that in Him we live and move and have our being.
And I love walking out in nature and just being aware.
(34:24):
find the Holy Spirit is just making me much more aware of this idea of existing withinGod's Spirit and being imbued with God's Spirit.
It's very powerful.
so this whole, find it, I think some people might think meditation is a self-indulgent.
I don't think it is at all.
it changes the way we see the world, makes us more aware of God within, God around, butalso God in others.
(34:52):
Have you got anything coming up soon?
I know you dropped a subtle hint earlier on.
What's coming up from Kate Nicholas?
Well, it's not going to come out till spring 2026, but I'm currently working on my nextbook.
I've just on about a third of the way through writing it and it's called Seeking AmazingGrace Following in the Footsteps of John Duke.
And it's not another book about John Newton's history.
(35:14):
It's another journey.
I think the best way put it is Bill Bryson plus God.
OK.
So that's coming out in spring 2026.
we look forward to that.
And where can we find you on social media or websites?
(35:34):
Where can we find the audiobook as well as your physical books?
How can we?
get more into your writing.
Brilliant.
Well, yeah, I'm on social media.
I've got a Facebook author page.
I'm Kate Nicholas' author.
Instagram, Kate Nicholas, and I'm also on TikTok, Kate Nicholas Writes.
You can get my books at any Christian bookstore, but also online at Amazon, Waltstones,Eden, Aslan, any online retailer.
(36:01):
And as you say, they're available in Payback, Kindle, and To the Ocean Floor is availableas an audiobook on Audible and other audio channels.
But also,
To make that simple, if you go to my website, caitenicholas.co.uk has all the links toeverything.
And it has information about my books.
has information.
It has, can watch my television series with TBN, Living a Transform Life.
(36:24):
And it's also got my course on there, Write Your Soul Story.
Well, thank you, Kate.
It's been a joy chatting with you today and learning so much about you and your books.
Well, thank you, Matt.
And thank you as well for listening to this episode of the Christian Book Blob.
Don't forget we come out once, no, twice a month.
(36:46):
it's still early in the new year.
I need to get my head around this.
We come out twice a month on the first and the 15th of the month.
So I will be back really soon speaking with another fantastic Christian author, all abouttheir books, their lives and their faith.
Thank you so much.
I'll see you in a few weeks time.
Goodbye.
Thanks for listening to Christian Book Blurb with your host Matt McChlery.
(37:11):
Do give it a like, give it a share and let your friends know all about it.
We do hope to see you again soon on another Christian Book Blurb.
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