July 1, 2025 • 41 mins
In this episode of Christian Book Blurb, host Matt McChlery interviews authors Arthur White and Jude Simpson about their book 'Lifting the Darkness,' which reflects on 30 years of the ministry of Tough Talk. The conversation explores the unique approach of Tough Talk in sharing the gospel through weightlifting, the challenges faced in modern ministry, and personal anecdotes from their experiences. The authors emphasize the importance of using one's talents to share faith and encourage listeners to engage in their own discipleship journeys.
Links
Help keep this podcast on the web by simply buying me a coffee https://www.buymeacoffee.com/mattmcchlery
Sponsor an episode of this podcast Click for Advertising info
Visit Matt McChlery's website mattmcchlery.com
Visit the Tough Talk website tough-talk.com
Visit Jude Simpson's website judesimpson.co.uk
With thanks to this episode's sponsors 'God Whispers are Life Changers' by Michael and Delane Salkheld
Takeaways
- Tough Talk has been sharing the gospel for over 30 years.
- The book reflects on the authors' experiences and lessons learned.
- Weightlifting serves as a unique hook for ministry.
- The authors encourage ordinary Christians to share their faith.
- Aggression towards faith-sharing has increased in recent years.
- Personal testimonies are powerful tools for evangelism.
- Community and fellowship are vital in ministry work.
- The book aims to demystify faith-sharing for readers.
- The authors have faced various challenges in their ministry.
- Future projects may include more online engagement and resources.
Sound Bites
"This is Christian Book Blurb" "We want to boast in Christ" "We want people to do something"
Chapters
00:00 Introduction to Christian Book Blurb 01:12 Meet the Authors of Lifting the Darkness 04:33 Understanding Tough Talk's Mission 09:24 The Book's Purpose and Themes 12:19 The Evolution of Tough Talk 16:01 Challenges in Modern Ministry 19:20 Memorable Experiences in Ministry 22:10 Advice for Sharing Faith 24:49 Personal Lives of the Authors 30:21 Future Plans and Projects
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
This is Christian Book Blurb brought to you by author and songwriter Matt McChlery Get abehind the scenes glimpse into the lives of some of your favourite Christian authors, hear
about their books and faith.
Also, why not check out my website, mattmcleary.com
you
This episode of Christian Book Blurb is sponsored by the book God Whispers Our LifeChanges by Michael and Delaine Sulkeld.
(00:26):
Available now from GodWhispersForLife.com.
Well hello and welcome to the Christian Book Blurb podcast where we like to encourage youin your discipleship one book at a time as we meet some amazing Christian authors and
learn about their books, their lives and their faith.
Now I'm your host Matt McChlery.
you so much for clicking over here and joining us today on this episode.
(00:49):
I'm really excited.
It's only been a while ago since I started interviewing more than one author.
Now I could have been interviewing three authors at once today because this book that I'mtalking about today is written by three people, but I'm privileged enough to have two of
them joining me here on the podcast today.
So today I'm speaking with Arthur White and Jude Simpson.
(01:12):
all about the book called Lifting the Darkness 30 years on the road with tough talk.
Now this is an episode you don't want to miss, it's going to be full of amazing stories sodo stay tuned.
Let's welcome Arthur and Jude to the podcast.
Hi Arthur!
(01:32):
Good morning, good morning man.
Hello Jude.
Good morning.
Now it's great to have you both with us.
Now know there's a third author of the book.
Could you just tell us who that is, Jude?
Yeah, so the book is by Arthur White and Ian McDowell, who is really his his partner incrime, so to speak.
Arthur and Ian have been doing Tough Talk and getting out there for the last 30 years.
(01:55):
And I am a with.
So the book is Arthur White and Ian McDowell with Jude Simpson.
And we'll be asking a few questions about that in a moment.
Arthur, over to you.
Firstly, for those listeners who have no idea who or what Tough Talk is, can you just tellus who Tough Talk is?
Yeah, Tough Talk is a registered Christian charity and we've been a charity for 25 yearsnow, or been registered as a charity for 25 years.
(02:23):
But Ian and I met actually just over 30 years ago and we formed a friendship and arelationship because our paths actually would have crossed, although we never knew each
other.
And we started out sharing our faith.
And really, it's simple as that.
We became Christians, you would say we had a Damascus road experience.
(02:46):
Ian and I very similar, almost in similar places in the East and the London.
And we just love traveling around, sharing what Jesus has done in our life.
And obviously we bring a gospel message along with that as well.
So, Talk's been around, working with churches, working with prisons, working...
in drug rehabs, working on the streets, wherever we're invited.
(03:09):
We do no self-promotion.
And we go really wherever we're invited.
And we've been going for 30 years now, just a little over 30 years, which is fantastic.
Now, tough talk is unique in its style, I guess, because just saying, well, we go aroundand share the good news of Jesus, which is exactly what you do.
But people might have a picture of that in their minds, what that looks like.
(03:32):
But you use a hook that's very different to other ministries.
What is that?
Well, it's great what you said, Derek.
It is a hook.
Ian and myself and Joe Lamptscher, Joe's mentioned in the book of well, and most of theother guys that have been involved in with tough talk have all been involved in some form
(03:54):
of weight training or bodybuilding or weightlifting or powerlifting.
I was a powerlifter, Ian was a bodybuilder.
So actually we lift some weights and we might do a strong man lift or something like that.
And so we...
I used to demonstrate, so did Ian.
We've now gone 30 years on, so we're no longer young men.
And so we no longer lift the weights, but we still use the weights, especially on thestreet, as you've said, as a hook to get people interested.
(04:23):
So we might have a little competition and some people come up and lift the weights.
Last Saturday, I was with Ian and Joe at a big breakfast in Ipswich.
and we got four or five men come up and two or three women as well.
So it's not just for the men and it is a hook just to get the crowd interested andstanding there.
And of course, while they're waiting for the competition, we share our stories and you'vegot a great opening to share the gospel.
(04:50):
So it's all based around the weight only as a hook.
It's not based around the weight to boast in ourselves or anything like that.
We want to boast in Christ and Christ crucified and Him alone.
But it does work very well.
And so following on from that then, knowing sort of a little bit about what Tough Talk is,what is the book about, Jude?
(05:13):
yeah, good question.
So the book is really that 30 years retrospective, if you like, of Tough Talk's life onthe road.
So Ian and Arthur and Joe, actually, they've brought out quite a few books previously,which are really their testimony and that really gritty story that does involve
weightlifting and powerlifting, steroids, crime, all sorts of difficult subjects, and thenthe extraordinary way that they all became
(05:38):
followers of Jesus and had extraordinary experiences.
So that part of the story in a sense has been told before.
So what we wanted to do with this book was look back over those 30 years, tell some greatstories about funny or moving or extraordinary times they've had doing their work and
going out all over this country and other countries.
But we also, I think, wanted, well the guys really wanted to speak to other ordinaryChristians about how to share their faith.
(06:06):
try and demystify it really.
So they try and through these stories and through some little bits of advice they reallyspeak to the reader about how to make it easy for yourself to go out there and tell people
why you believe in Jesus.
I was just thinking, I'm so glad you mentioned that, sort of just trying to help thelisteners get the link between how a book like this can actually help you in your
(06:29):
discipleship.
Well, if you see what others do and some of the ideas that others have, you might be ableto, I don't know, start to get your own ideas as to what you do.
I know Tough Talk use like weightlifting as a hook and I guess that...
That was your life, wasn't it Arthur?
Weightlifting was what you had in your hands to offer God at that time.
(06:50):
Yeah, and actually, Joe tells a great story.
Joe Lampshire, as I mentioned in the book, has been a part of the team for 25 years.
And one of the things he said in a prayer many years ago was, because Joe enjoyed trainingand lifting weights, he said to God, if I can use weights and glorify you, that would be
(07:11):
great.
So Joe gives a great testimony about that.
And for myself personally, I remember when I became a Christian,
I stopped training, stopped competition.
But I started back training and God clearly spoke to me and said this, he said, all thatyou were, all that you are and all that you will be is now for me.
(07:31):
And I remember sitting there thinking, well, does that mean I compete again?
Now I competed for a long time and I'll give this out quickly.
I competed for 30 years as a competitive power lifter.
27 years I represented Great Britain.
I won nine British titles, six European titles and four world titles.
(07:52):
So I was successful at it.
But as much as I loved the sport, and we might touch on this, it did cause me lot ofproblems.
But then when I started to compete again as a Christian, first of all, I thoroughlyenjoyed my sport.
I started to compete and win again, but it gave me great opportunities to share my faith.
even within my sport.
(08:14):
So it's just been a part of my life since I was 14 years of age and that's nearly 60 yearsago now.
And Ian, as I say, was a bodybuilder, Joe was a powerlifter.
So all of us have this interest in training, really.
That's fantastic.
Can I just say one thing before we continue though?
(08:35):
I feel quite guilty because Ian and I have never written a book all we've ever done isspoken and and I have to commend not this is just sitting there, but we we met on a
motorway service station for the first time Joe Jude Ian and I and and we must have justbombarded Jude with so many things of what we've done and what we've not done in
(09:00):
She's traveled around seeing us and listening to us for many, many hours.
And Jude is the one that's compiled all this together.
However, as Jude has said, we didn't just want to write a book about what we've done.
He didn't want to glorify us.
We wanted to try and encourage Christians just to share their faith with whatever they'vegot in whichever way they can.
(09:24):
You know, we're not expecting everyone to start going down the gym and becoming anotherArnold Schwarzenegger.
We want people to share their faith with whatever talent they've got.
And even if they haven't got, or they don't feel they've got talents and gifts, still toshare their faiths.
And that's the whole essence of the book.
And as I say, Jude has done a great job in putting stories in, accompanied with Scripture.
(09:51):
And it is purely, this is the first time we've done something what we consider is forChristians and for the church.
And hopefully it does, I will become an encouragement to people.
That's great.
Jude, speaking about meeting the guys on a motorway service station, how did you getinvolved in the project?
Yeah, thanks.
So I've written, I had written two other books that I call myself a co-author, becauseit's very much working with the people that are telling their story.
(10:19):
And I helped put those words together, but it's in their voice, if you like.
So I'd done two books before, both with this publisher, Authentic Media.
So I just got a call from Rachel at Authentic and said, I think we might have anotherproject for you.
And she'd been talking to Arthur, I think.
then I think either Ian or Arthur, just emailed and like Arthur said, we set up thisinitial meeting at a service station off the M11.
(10:42):
So halfway between, I live near Cambridge, so halfway between me and Essex.
And yeah, we just met up and the guys just tried to sort of explain where they were comingfrom, why it was time to write another book.
And it all went from there.
Yeah.
I said to Authentic that I'd love to do it.
And like Arthur said, we spent a lot of time on zoom.
hours and hours.
And I think I guess my main role with this book and others is finding the story.
(11:07):
So everyone's always got plenty to say and they know that there's something important, butit took a little while before we really nailed down this sense of right, just easy, kind
of unpressured advice to other people to take what they've got in their life and who theyare and bring that to tell other people about their faith.
We had a big restructure of the book as well.
(11:28):
At one point we were going to structure it in a completely different way, but actually theway it's landed now I think is a really helpful structure.
There's a sense of you meet Arthur and Ian right at the beginning, how they met eachother, and then the early days of Tough Talk, learning how to present, what things worked
with getting people's attention, and then you go right through to the present day, whatthey're doing now, some of the issues they're facing 30 years later, which can be quite
(11:52):
different.
So yes, I feel that's been...
my contribution.
That's good.
And the book as well, speaking of structure, it's interesting how it kind of flips betweendifferent voices and sort of cuts in and out of different stories within the chapter.
But then each chapter focuses on a particular theme in a way.
So whether it's sort of weightlifting in the early days in competitions, or whether it'svisiting scary prisons in Eastern Europe or whatever it is.
(12:19):
each chapter kind of focuses around a theme and you hear different voices quite often inand out of those.
So yeah, really, really interesting.
Speaking of the beginning of the book, Arthur, where it talks about how tough talk cameabout all those years ago.
Can you just fill us in with a little bit of the background story?
Yeah, well, again, one of things that fascinates me is the fact of what's going on in theheavenlies and the supernatural part of our faith.
(12:50):
Well, Ian and I became Christians almost at the same time, 1993, 92.
Ian and I had four years of absolute madness in the four years prior to that.
And as I said, we lived in the same sort of area in the East End.
We even trained at the same gyms.
paths must have crossed, but we never noticed each other.
(13:14):
is considerably younger than me.
And going back to when I was in my 40s, Ian would have been a very young man, and as faras I was concerned, would have been a boy, not even a young man.
So our paths would have crossed in some way.
So Ian and I actually first met at a men's breakfast.
It was in London, it was a full gospel business men's breakfast where a man came and givestestimony and there was just literally a seat on a table and I said to Ian, as it says in
(13:42):
the book, anyone sitting there and he said, no, sit down and that was it, we got talking.
However, just prior to that, Ian joined a church which is City Gates Church in Ilford.
I joined a church in Essex called Epinforus Community Church.
The church knew that both of us were involved in weights and Ian's pastor, Steve Darby'shere, asked Ian to come along and he said to him, why don't you bring some weights and
(14:08):
talk to the youth group?
And a similar thing happened to me.
And then Ian and I met and we went into a prison and spoke and it sort of evolved fromthere.
We realized we were doing the same thing.
And then we spoke at a church in North London,
pastor there put some flyers out and post to his congregation and people in the air andsaid, come and listen to a tough talk because life can be tough.
(14:34):
And basically the name stuck with us.
And then we was speaking one evening in the East End of London, we did an evening meetingand then a guy give us 40 pounds.
And it's the first time we'd ever been given a gift.
And we said, what do do with this?
So one of the guys in the team said, well, let's go and get Chinese.
So we spent the money on the Chinese.
But then we started getting more and more invites and churches were keen on giving us agift.
(14:58):
So we thought, well, you know, we better try and get some formality as it were and somelegality about the organization.
And we formed the charity 25 years ago and it's continued since then.
There's been years when we've been mega, mega busy.
There's been years when it's been a little bit quieter.
(15:19):
But Ian is on the road every week.
I'm actually in Itwich now.
I'm speaking from, actually I'm speaking from Clacton at the moment, but I've got two orthree more meetings to do.
And then I'm just flicking through my diary.
Ian and I are together next weekend in Cornwall.
The following weekend, we're in Bristol together.
we're in Kingsland and Essex together.
(15:42):
Then we're at the gathering in Swindon together.
Then the following weekend we're in Wakefield and Wolverhampton.
It just goes on and on.
We've just been on the road forever.
I love it.
I don't do anywhere near as much as I used to.
Age is creeping up on me.
going to ask how have things changed?
(16:04):
So 30 years when it started, 30 years ago, how have things changed or stayed the same orhave the challenges or the things you're coming across you notice, are they similar or is
the landscape that you are ministering in different now?
What does it look like?
Well, for us as individuals, we joke and say we're one trick ponies.
(16:29):
All we want to do is share our testimonies, what Jesus has done, and share the good news.
So that remains the central thing.
However, on the streets, when we do street outreaches, I personally see a lot moreaggression.
There was a time when we would be on the streets and I might say something like, JesusChrist, come into my life.
changed my life and someone would walk past and go, great for you mate and carry onwalking.
(16:54):
Whereas today, there seems to be a lot more aggression on the streets.
People are a lot more aggressive.
I've heard and seen a lot of abuse to guys that perhaps wear, if we're out with a church,they might have Jesus written on their t-shirt and it does offend.
So I see a lot more anger and opposition to the name of Jesus on the streets.
(17:16):
In the prisons where we do a lot of work, a lot of that is shutting down.
There is a massive Islamic presence in the prisons.
So some of the prisons have shut us down.
But for us, we just consider that the battle rages on and we're going to continue.
Some of the churches are hesitant to go on the streets these days.
(17:38):
I have noticed that.
However, a lot of that could be
due to the fact that the English weather is not always the best form of open airpresentation.
But the other thing I have noticed, and Ian and I were talking about this, there are somevery, very good individuals and churches that are getting out on the streets proclaiming
(17:58):
the good news of Jesus.
So I've seen a big uptake in that.
although in...
places you hear that the church is not perhaps growing, there are places where it is.
So I'm confident and keen to see what goes on in the next few years.
There are some great Christian men and women out on the streets.
Jude, experiences, you said you've been along to some of the Tough Talks events out andabout to help you get a sense of what they're about to help you write the book.
(18:27):
What have been some of your experiences and what have you noticed and seen as you've beenout and about with Tough Talks?
Yeah, so I went up to the first time I saw them kind of doing their thing was up in Leedswhere there was a you're kind of a whole day of events around a church and some youth
(18:47):
meetings.
So I think so I'm a performer as well as a writer.
And one of the things that really struck me was just the the very professional sort ofstructure of their presentations.
And yet there's nothing slick or impersonal about it.
So the guys that Arthur's talked about the weights just being a hook, but actually I thinkthey're more than a hook.
(19:08):
They're part of your story.
And they're very entertaining.
there's this sense of Joe, when I went, Joe did some lifting with some big, or what do youcall the big, the long barbells?
Yeah, the barbell.
And then,
Ian would be talking whilst then loading more weight on.
then you've got this little anticipation, is Joe going to find it harder?
Is he going to start sweating?
(19:28):
You know, when will it be too much?
And as Joe's doing this, and then he'll put it down for a minute and Arthur will say,right, this is what my life looked like when I was powerlifting.
And there's this brilliant sort of coming and going and adding and looking and somethingvisual and something to listen to.
So yeah, for me, it really struck me just how
know, the guys are very humble and they've learnt.
(19:50):
They've learnt how to tell their story in a way that makes sense to people.
They've learnt how to present in a way that gets their message across.
That's definitely one of things that I noticed most.
Mm, really good.
Now you have ministered in so many different places, Arthur.
This might be a difficult question, but have you got one of your most memorableexperiences while out ministering that you could share with us?
(20:17):
Yeah, you're right.
There's many, many, many.
One of the things that we've done in the past and are still doing, which gives me a great,I don't know what the word would be, I wouldn't say satisfaction, but really encourages
me.
We work with HMS Raleigh down in Devon, Cornwall, and it's a training center for the RoyalNavy.
(20:40):
So we go in there four times a year.
And every time we go in,
we get a new batch of recruits.
So there could be anywhere between 500 and 700.
And we do the same thing.
We go into the chapel, we lift the weights, we have a competition, we share our stories,we give a gospel presentation and pray for them.
But that to me is a highlight.
(21:03):
we, as I say, we've done two.
This year we've got another two to do.
And what I love there is the fact that the chaplains
within the Navy are encouraging these young people, they're encouraging them in their, areChristians, but very few.
And it's just great to see these young people worshiping.
And sometimes they don't even know what they're singing, but it's great to see.
(21:27):
And so that's a great thing that's going on at the moment.
And I'm looking forward to the next one in July and then one in November.
But there are...
So many, I mean, you know, in New York, in Russia, in Moldova, the Philippines, SouthAfrica, it goes on and on and on and on.
But one of the great things for me personally is the fellowship that I have with Ian andJoe to go out with brothers that just want to share their faith.
(21:54):
That's a great experience.
And one of the things I've always encouraged
people to do is to be in fellowship.
If you're struggling, it helps.
But there are many, many, that we could go on about.
Yeah well for our listeners if you're wanting to find out more of these memorable storiesand experiences and some of them are really amazing, do go and check out their new book
(22:21):
Lifting the Darkness 30 Years on the Road with Tough Talk.
Now just before we have a short break Arthur, if someone is wanting to tell others aboutJesus in the UK today, what top tips would you give them?
What I said earlier, know, we don't, in writing the book, it was just, as I say, hopefullyto encourage people.
(22:43):
as an example, I was, I mean, I've told you, I'm in Ipswich for a couple of weeks.
I went to a local gym the other day, and as I got out the car park, there was two or threemen giving out flyers and talking about their faith.
So he approached me.
And I just said something like, you're doing a great job, fellas.
I said, can I have some of your flyers?
(23:04):
So I took a handful of these flyers.
And as I went into the gym, I put one in the lift, I put one in the gym, I put one in thethe toilets as I went in there, and I left one in the in the cafe.
So I was just giving out a few flyers.
So I would just encourage people just to do anything.
Although I wasn't with the lads on the streets.
(23:26):
giving my testimony, I was still doing something.
And hopefully that's what we want, just for people to do something.
If they can't get out on the streets, whether they're old or poorly or whatever, you cando something.
So I would just encourage people to do anything.
Use their talents they've got.
If I could just add to that, to me there's two specific things that come out in the book.
(23:49):
Firstly, start with who you are and what you do.
Don't try and be anything different or do something that someone else does.
Start with what you do and who you are.
These guys are very, very real in their approach.
And the second thing, like Arthur's just said, is that togetherness.
Find someone else to do stuff with so that you're not just going out on your own.
I think those are two really good pieces of advice that they give.
(24:11):
Great, great advice.
Thank you.
Thank you both.
Now we're going to be coming back very soon after these messages.
So do join us in just a moment.
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(24:43):
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It is a story of life lessons by example.
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(25:45):
to keep supporting Christian books and authors.
Hello, welcome back to the Christian Bookblog podcast where I've been chatting with JudeSimpson and Arthur White all about their new book, Lifting the Darkness, 30 Years on the
Road with Tough Talk.
Now on this side of the podcast, we like to get to know the authors a little bit better.
I think we've got quite a good sense of Arthur with his weightlifting in his past.
(26:10):
What do you like to do for fun, Arthur, other than weightlifting?
What do I like?
It's interesting.
I still train.
I've got little Jim in my garage.
So I still train once or twice a week.
What I do for fun, I like to chill out a little bit more these days.
So I'm not into any other sport really or any other recreation.
(26:32):
I just love chilling out.
My wife...
runs a very, my wife works full time and runs a food bank and storehouse.
So I tried to think that I can support her a little bit in that.
I run a small men's group at my church, I run a men's break.
So I tried to do that.
In all honesty, and I really don't want to come across wrong, I love sharing my faith.
(26:55):
I'm no...
Even doing this is great for me.
It lifts my spirits sharing the faith.
So I love doing that.
Fantastic.
And Jude, have you also got a weightlifting gym in your garage?
What do you do for fun?
I certainly have not.
I have got three sons who are all quite into a little bit of training.
They're aged 11, 13 and 15 at the moment, so just starting out on that.
(27:21):
I've also got a daughter, so I've got four children all together, which gives you a clueof what I spend a lot of my time
you have time for fun?
So I think as a mum, you have to make fun out of all the things that you need to do.
actually say one of the I love hanging out washing funnily enough, I just sometimes findtasks, you know, I don't I'm not good at changing beds.
I hate doing that.
But I don't mind doing the laundry.
So I just get a bit of pleasure out of that on a sunny day.
(27:42):
No, love dancing.
So I'll do that when I can.
I've just started going to a dance aerobics class once a week, getting a
Yeah, getting a bit of a sweat on is good from time to time, but I certainly don't doweights.
Wonderful.
And what about anything, what do you enjoy eating or drinking?
Any sort of favorite meal or kind of a type of food, like a cuisine or something likethat?
(28:05):
Anything you're into?
Well, I'm a big eater.
love eating.
So I'm happy pretty much with anything.
But I would say my favorite dishes would be an eggs Benedict.
I love an eggs Benedict for brunch.
I love a good old traditional Sunday roast.
you Arthur, how about you?
Actually quite similar.
mean, one of the things that I, as a competitive powerlifter and trainer, protein was alsoa big thing for me.
(28:29):
So it's always chicken and tuna and eggs.
And I still like poached eggs, smashed avocado, smoked salmon.
And like Jude, one of my favorite things is a Sunday lunch.
I'm very fortunate that my wife and I live next door to our daughter.
son-in-law and two granddaughters and our son close by also.
(28:50):
And we often meet regularly for Sunday roasts and that's a big thing for us and I do likethat,
Mm, great.
And so at the very beginning of the episode, you mentioned about meeting in a motorwayservice station.
when you do stop at motorway service stations, and it sounds like you do that quite oftenbecause you're traveling a lot, and Jude as well.
(29:12):
We'll hear bit more about your travels in a moment.
What do you go for in the cafe when it's getting something to drink?
Is it, is it a tea or a coffee or a fruit juice?
What's your go-to drink that you order?
My go to drink is coffee.
What sort of coffee?
Sorry?
Is it like a flat white or a cappuccino?
I go for a straight forward Americano and if we're doing a lot of traveling I'll haveanother shot of espresso in it as well.
(29:38):
coffee is my go-to and again with Ian and Joe when we are traveling for whatever reason weall like Americano so we drink coffee.
There you go, dude!
Yeah, funny enough, I'm a coffee person as well.
I'll generally I'll ask for an Americano with hot milk.
These days I have to have it decaffeinated if it's afternoon.
But there we go.
(29:59):
That's part of the aging process.
Yeah.
Wonderful, wonderful.
And let's just talk about things that are going on in the background.
What's coming up soon?
What's going on?
Arthur, you're still traveling around doing lots of presentations.
Are you thinking of another book or some other kind of resource to go alongside whatyou're doing?
(30:19):
What's bubbling in the background with you guys?
Well, I mean, as I say, tough talk is still very busy.
Ian's on the road every week and Joe obviously as well and I'm not traveling nearly asmuch as I've done in the past.
However, what happened during lockdown tough talk started doing podcasts.
(30:40):
We run an alpha online.
We have always met on a Tuesday.
for a prayer meeting and now we meet on Zoom for a prayer meeting.
that is always, and that's been going on for the 30 years we've been together.
But one of the things we do now regularly is on a Friday night.
We have Friday night live with Tough Talk and we have guests on.
(31:03):
So we've sort of not developed it, but we've tried to keep that up as a regular thingbecause obviously there are people that do not see us.
but we can still do some sort of presentation on that.
So we'll probably carry on doing that.
Whether we do another book, I don't know.
There certainly won't be another 30 years on the road with Tough Talk, not for sure, theIndian.
(31:27):
And yeah, so I think for us, we'll carry on as long as we get the invites and we will pushand try and develop perhaps the Friday Night Live and increase that so that more people
see that.
people access or find that Friday Night Live livestream?
well, Tough Talk is www.toughtalk-tough-talk.com.
(31:50):
So they can go online there and find out about that.
And then they can follow that on Facebook on a Friday night.
And that's proven to be quite popular.
A lot of people log in and follow that.
We have a guest on sometimes.
Sometimes it's just Ian and I and Joe talking about life in general or issues.
And a lot of the people that watch us put their comments in and we try and help and answerquestions.
(32:14):
Again, we just want to encourage people in their faith to be in the right place with God,to be the men and women that God wants them to be.
And as Jude said earlier, you know, not to try and, but we don't want to try and createlittle tough talk groups all over the country.
That's not what it's about.
It's about
God developing you and being the person that he wants you to be.
(32:38):
And I think if we do seek God, not, I want to say earnestly, if we seek God in reality tobe what he wants, and if that happens, you'll be surprised where he can take you.
I think sometimes when I've seen young men come to Jesus and have given their life orwhatever you want to call it, however they've made the commitment, all of a sudden they
(32:59):
feel they need to work.
I want to...
They'd say, I want to be involved in worship, I want to be involved in the youth work, Iwant to do outreach.
God is not an employment agent.
He is a father.
He wants us in a relationship first.
So I think we've tried to encourage men and women to be in the right place with God first.
(33:22):
Let Him guide you.
One of the things Ian loves, Joe loves, and we love as many people do, is the Bible.
We love sharing the Word of God, and I think that's important.
We try and encourage people to get into the Word of God.
So I've sort of digressed a bit there and waffled on a bit.
Sorry.
That's fine.
Jude, what's going on with you in the background?
(33:43):
What are you up to?
Yeah, so I've actually just finished my next book, funnily enough.
I've been helping an international manufacturing engineering consultant to write hismemoir and philosophy of change.
that's been extraordinary, actually.
And then his book actually has a faith angle to it as well.
He's very influenced by his Christian beliefs.
(34:05):
I've just finished that.
what I'm mainly doing at the moment, so I mentioned earlier that my kind of
core love is spoken word.
So I write performance poetry and I have an act where I blend spoken word and poetry withfunny songs and some comedy and some nonsense.
And I've got a family show at the moment, which I'm touring.
It's called Annoy's Annoy's.
So you can tell it's all about wordplay as in annoy's, boom, annoy's people.
(34:29):
It's suitable for any age from six plus, really good for kind of six to 12 year olds andtheir families.
So that's just a really fun show with a little bit of
kind of truth and thoughtfulness underlying it.
I'm taking it to Sudbury and Suffolk just after half term.
I've got bookings in Worthing, Dorchester, Bedford, Hereford, various other places.
(34:50):
So you can find me, if you just look up Jude Simpson, you'll pretty much find me all overthe place.
I'm on Facebook, Instagram, and I've got my website and the show is called A Noise, ANoise.
Wonderful.
Can I ask you a question?
Is all your, I mean I've seen you only online, is all your work faith based?
(35:11):
So this is a question I get a lot.
would say, so this show at the moment is not a Christian show.
I do write some material which is specifically inspired by the Bible.
Most of my material is not sort of what people would call Christian.
But I would always say that everything I am and everything I believe is part of who I amas a writer.
(35:33):
and my work is very true to myself.
So I think if you came even to my kids show, which is full of fun and nonsense and veryeasy to invite anybody to, you would be able to detect kind of maybe what my worldview is.
I just have some little lines in there about truth, about the importance of words, aboutthe power of speech and those kind of things.
So everything is influenced, but most of my work would not be considered kind ofChristian.
(35:57):
category wise.
That's lovely.
I mean, I know you as a Christian, so I know it would be that, but I just want to...
Yeah, that's lovely.
You're very talented.
Matt, we're not like Jude.
We can't sing, dance or do anything.
We just lift weights and make a lot of noise.
yeah.
wonderful.
I will put the links to both Tough Talks website and Jude Simpson's website in thisepisode's show notes, so if you are looking to find out more about them you can just click
(36:27):
over there and go straight to where you want to be.
That just leaves me to say thank you so much to Arthur and Jude for joining me on thepodcast today.
Thank you.
Thank you, it's been a pleasure.
Thank you, Matt.
Thanks having us.
It's been great.
It's been great chatting with you guys.
just want to give a really big thank you to the sponsors of today's episode.
(36:48):
This is the book God Whispers Our Life Changes by Michael and Delaine Selkeld.
That book is available now from their website, GodWhispersForLife.com.
Do go and check it out.
And thank you as well for listening to this episode of the Christian Book Blur podcast.
Don't forget, we'll be back really soon.
where I'll be chatting with another Christian author all about their books, their life andtheir faith to encourage you in your discipleship one book at a time.
(37:13):
We land on the first and the fifteenth of every month, so do join us again then.
Thank you and goodbye.
Thanks for listening to Christian Book Blurb with your host, Matt McChlery.
Do give it a like, give it a share and let your friends know all about it.
We do hope to see you again soon on another Christian Book Blurb.
This is Christian Book Blurb brought to you by author and songwriter Matt McChlery Get abehind the scenes glimpse into the lives of some of your favourite Christian authors, hear
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you
This episode of Christian Book Blurb is sponsored by the book God Whispers Our LifeChanges by Michael and Delaine Sulkeld.
(00:26):
Available now from GodWhispersForLife.com.
Well hello and welcome to the Christian Book Blurb podcast where we like to encourage youin your discipleship one book at a time as we meet some amazing Christian authors and
learn about their books, their lives and their faith.
Now I'm your host Matt McChlery.
you so much for clicking over here and joining us today on this episode.
(00:49):
I'm really excited.
It's only been a while ago since I started interviewing more than one author.
Now I could have been interviewing three authors at once today because this book that I'mtalking about today is written by three people, but I'm privileged enough to have two of
them joining me here on the podcast today.
So today I'm speaking with Arthur White and Jude Simpson.
(01:12):
all about the book called Lifting the Darkness 30 years on the road with tough talk.
Now this is an episode you don't want to miss, it's going to be full of amazing stories sodo stay tuned.
Let's welcome Arthur and Jude to the podcast.
Hi Arthur!
(01:32):
Good morning, good morning man.
Hello Jude.
Good morning.
Now it's great to have you both with us.
Now know there's a third author of the book.
Could you just tell us who that is, Jude?
Yeah, so the book is by Arthur White and Ian McDowell, who is really his his partner incrime, so to speak.
Arthur and Ian have been doing Tough Talk and getting out there for the last 30 years.
(01:55):
And I am a with.
So the book is Arthur White and Ian McDowell with Jude Simpson.
And we'll be asking a few questions about that in a moment.
Arthur, over to you.
Firstly, for those listeners who have no idea who or what Tough Talk is, can you just tellus who Tough Talk is?
Yeah, Tough Talk is a registered Christian charity and we've been a charity for 25 yearsnow, or been registered as a charity for 25 years.
(02:23):
But Ian and I met actually just over 30 years ago and we formed a friendship and arelationship because our paths actually would have crossed, although we never knew each
other.
And we started out sharing our faith.
And really, it's simple as that.
We became Christians, you would say we had a Damascus road experience.
(02:46):
Ian and I very similar, almost in similar places in the East and the London.
And we just love traveling around, sharing what Jesus has done in our life.
And obviously we bring a gospel message along with that as well.
So, Talk's been around, working with churches, working with prisons, working...
in drug rehabs, working on the streets, wherever we're invited.
(03:09):
We do no self-promotion.
And we go really wherever we're invited.
And we've been going for 30 years now, just a little over 30 years, which is fantastic.
Now, tough talk is unique in its style, I guess, because just saying, well, we go aroundand share the good news of Jesus, which is exactly what you do.
But people might have a picture of that in their minds, what that looks like.
(03:32):
But you use a hook that's very different to other ministries.
What is that?
Well, it's great what you said, Derek.
It is a hook.
Ian and myself and Joe Lamptscher, Joe's mentioned in the book of well, and most of theother guys that have been involved in with tough talk have all been involved in some form
(03:54):
of weight training or bodybuilding or weightlifting or powerlifting.
I was a powerlifter, Ian was a bodybuilder.
So actually we lift some weights and we might do a strong man lift or something like that.
And so we...
I used to demonstrate, so did Ian.
We've now gone 30 years on, so we're no longer young men.
And so we no longer lift the weights, but we still use the weights, especially on thestreet, as you've said, as a hook to get people interested.
(04:23):
So we might have a little competition and some people come up and lift the weights.
Last Saturday, I was with Ian and Joe at a big breakfast in Ipswich.
and we got four or five men come up and two or three women as well.
So it's not just for the men and it is a hook just to get the crowd interested andstanding there.
And of course, while they're waiting for the competition, we share our stories and you'vegot a great opening to share the gospel.
(04:50):
So it's all based around the weight only as a hook.
It's not based around the weight to boast in ourselves or anything like that.
We want to boast in Christ and Christ crucified and Him alone.
But it does work very well.
And so following on from that then, knowing sort of a little bit about what Tough Talk is,what is the book about, Jude?
(05:13):
yeah, good question.
So the book is really that 30 years retrospective, if you like, of Tough Talk's life onthe road.
So Ian and Arthur and Joe, actually, they've brought out quite a few books previously,which are really their testimony and that really gritty story that does involve
weightlifting and powerlifting, steroids, crime, all sorts of difficult subjects, and thenthe extraordinary way that they all became
(05:38):
followers of Jesus and had extraordinary experiences.
So that part of the story in a sense has been told before.
So what we wanted to do with this book was look back over those 30 years, tell some greatstories about funny or moving or extraordinary times they've had doing their work and
going out all over this country and other countries.
But we also, I think, wanted, well the guys really wanted to speak to other ordinaryChristians about how to share their faith.
(06:06):
try and demystify it really.
So they try and through these stories and through some little bits of advice they reallyspeak to the reader about how to make it easy for yourself to go out there and tell people
why you believe in Jesus.
I was just thinking, I'm so glad you mentioned that, sort of just trying to help thelisteners get the link between how a book like this can actually help you in your
(06:29):
discipleship.
Well, if you see what others do and some of the ideas that others have, you might be ableto, I don't know, start to get your own ideas as to what you do.
I know Tough Talk use like weightlifting as a hook and I guess that...
That was your life, wasn't it Arthur?
Weightlifting was what you had in your hands to offer God at that time.
(06:50):
Yeah, and actually, Joe tells a great story.
Joe Lampshire, as I mentioned in the book, has been a part of the team for 25 years.
And one of the things he said in a prayer many years ago was, because Joe enjoyed trainingand lifting weights, he said to God, if I can use weights and glorify you, that would be
(07:11):
great.
So Joe gives a great testimony about that.
And for myself personally, I remember when I became a Christian,
I stopped training, stopped competition.
But I started back training and God clearly spoke to me and said this, he said, all thatyou were, all that you are and all that you will be is now for me.
(07:31):
And I remember sitting there thinking, well, does that mean I compete again?
Now I competed for a long time and I'll give this out quickly.
I competed for 30 years as a competitive power lifter.
27 years I represented Great Britain.
I won nine British titles, six European titles and four world titles.
(07:52):
So I was successful at it.
But as much as I loved the sport, and we might touch on this, it did cause me lot ofproblems.
But then when I started to compete again as a Christian, first of all, I thoroughlyenjoyed my sport.
I started to compete and win again, but it gave me great opportunities to share my faith.
even within my sport.
(08:14):
So it's just been a part of my life since I was 14 years of age and that's nearly 60 yearsago now.
And Ian, as I say, was a bodybuilder, Joe was a powerlifter.
So all of us have this interest in training, really.
That's fantastic.
Can I just say one thing before we continue though?
(08:35):
I feel quite guilty because Ian and I have never written a book all we've ever done isspoken and and I have to commend not this is just sitting there, but we we met on a
motorway service station for the first time Joe Jude Ian and I and and we must have justbombarded Jude with so many things of what we've done and what we've not done in
(09:00):
She's traveled around seeing us and listening to us for many, many hours.
And Jude is the one that's compiled all this together.
However, as Jude has said, we didn't just want to write a book about what we've done.
He didn't want to glorify us.
We wanted to try and encourage Christians just to share their faith with whatever they'vegot in whichever way they can.
(09:24):
You know, we're not expecting everyone to start going down the gym and becoming anotherArnold Schwarzenegger.
We want people to share their faith with whatever talent they've got.
And even if they haven't got, or they don't feel they've got talents and gifts, still toshare their faiths.
And that's the whole essence of the book.
And as I say, Jude has done a great job in putting stories in, accompanied with Scripture.
(09:51):
And it is purely, this is the first time we've done something what we consider is forChristians and for the church.
And hopefully it does, I will become an encouragement to people.
That's great.
Jude, speaking about meeting the guys on a motorway service station, how did you getinvolved in the project?
Yeah, thanks.
So I've written, I had written two other books that I call myself a co-author, becauseit's very much working with the people that are telling their story.
(10:19):
And I helped put those words together, but it's in their voice, if you like.
So I'd done two books before, both with this publisher, Authentic Media.
So I just got a call from Rachel at Authentic and said, I think we might have anotherproject for you.
And she'd been talking to Arthur, I think.
then I think either Ian or Arthur, just emailed and like Arthur said, we set up thisinitial meeting at a service station off the M11.
(10:42):
So halfway between, I live near Cambridge, so halfway between me and Essex.
And yeah, we just met up and the guys just tried to sort of explain where they were comingfrom, why it was time to write another book.
And it all went from there.
Yeah.
I said to Authentic that I'd love to do it.
And like Arthur said, we spent a lot of time on zoom.
hours and hours.
And I think I guess my main role with this book and others is finding the story.
(11:07):
So everyone's always got plenty to say and they know that there's something important, butit took a little while before we really nailed down this sense of right, just easy, kind
of unpressured advice to other people to take what they've got in their life and who theyare and bring that to tell other people about their faith.
We had a big restructure of the book as well.
(11:28):
At one point we were going to structure it in a completely different way, but actually theway it's landed now I think is a really helpful structure.
There's a sense of you meet Arthur and Ian right at the beginning, how they met eachother, and then the early days of Tough Talk, learning how to present, what things worked
with getting people's attention, and then you go right through to the present day, whatthey're doing now, some of the issues they're facing 30 years later, which can be quite
(11:52):
different.
So yes, I feel that's been...
my contribution.
That's good.
And the book as well, speaking of structure, it's interesting how it kind of flips betweendifferent voices and sort of cuts in and out of different stories within the chapter.
But then each chapter focuses on a particular theme in a way.
So whether it's sort of weightlifting in the early days in competitions, or whether it'svisiting scary prisons in Eastern Europe or whatever it is.
(12:19):
each chapter kind of focuses around a theme and you hear different voices quite often inand out of those.
So yeah, really, really interesting.
Speaking of the beginning of the book, Arthur, where it talks about how tough talk cameabout all those years ago.
Can you just fill us in with a little bit of the background story?
Yeah, well, again, one of things that fascinates me is the fact of what's going on in theheavenlies and the supernatural part of our faith.
(12:50):
Well, Ian and I became Christians almost at the same time, 1993, 92.
Ian and I had four years of absolute madness in the four years prior to that.
And as I said, we lived in the same sort of area in the East End.
We even trained at the same gyms.
paths must have crossed, but we never noticed each other.
(13:14):
is considerably younger than me.
And going back to when I was in my 40s, Ian would have been a very young man, and as faras I was concerned, would have been a boy, not even a young man.
So our paths would have crossed in some way.
So Ian and I actually first met at a men's breakfast.
It was in London, it was a full gospel business men's breakfast where a man came and givestestimony and there was just literally a seat on a table and I said to Ian, as it says in
(13:42):
the book, anyone sitting there and he said, no, sit down and that was it, we got talking.
However, just prior to that, Ian joined a church which is City Gates Church in Ilford.
I joined a church in Essex called Epinforus Community Church.
The church knew that both of us were involved in weights and Ian's pastor, Steve Darby'shere, asked Ian to come along and he said to him, why don't you bring some weights and
(14:08):
talk to the youth group?
And a similar thing happened to me.
And then Ian and I met and we went into a prison and spoke and it sort of evolved fromthere.
We realized we were doing the same thing.
And then we spoke at a church in North London,
pastor there put some flyers out and post to his congregation and people in the air andsaid, come and listen to a tough talk because life can be tough.
(14:34):
And basically the name stuck with us.
And then we was speaking one evening in the East End of London, we did an evening meetingand then a guy give us 40 pounds.
And it's the first time we'd ever been given a gift.
And we said, what do do with this?
So one of the guys in the team said, well, let's go and get Chinese.
So we spent the money on the Chinese.
But then we started getting more and more invites and churches were keen on giving us agift.
(14:58):
So we thought, well, you know, we better try and get some formality as it were and somelegality about the organization.
And we formed the charity 25 years ago and it's continued since then.
There's been years when we've been mega, mega busy.
There's been years when it's been a little bit quieter.
(15:19):
But Ian is on the road every week.
I'm actually in Itwich now.
I'm speaking from, actually I'm speaking from Clacton at the moment, but I've got two orthree more meetings to do.
And then I'm just flicking through my diary.
Ian and I are together next weekend in Cornwall.
The following weekend, we're in Bristol together.
we're in Kingsland and Essex together.
(15:42):
Then we're at the gathering in Swindon together.
Then the following weekend we're in Wakefield and Wolverhampton.
It just goes on and on.
We've just been on the road forever.
I love it.
I don't do anywhere near as much as I used to.
Age is creeping up on me.
going to ask how have things changed?
(16:04):
So 30 years when it started, 30 years ago, how have things changed or stayed the same orhave the challenges or the things you're coming across you notice, are they similar or is
the landscape that you are ministering in different now?
What does it look like?
Well, for us as individuals, we joke and say we're one trick ponies.
(16:29):
All we want to do is share our testimonies, what Jesus has done, and share the good news.
So that remains the central thing.
However, on the streets, when we do street outreaches, I personally see a lot moreaggression.
There was a time when we would be on the streets and I might say something like, JesusChrist, come into my life.
changed my life and someone would walk past and go, great for you mate and carry onwalking.
(16:54):
Whereas today, there seems to be a lot more aggression on the streets.
People are a lot more aggressive.
I've heard and seen a lot of abuse to guys that perhaps wear, if we're out with a church,they might have Jesus written on their t-shirt and it does offend.
So I see a lot more anger and opposition to the name of Jesus on the streets.
(17:16):
In the prisons where we do a lot of work, a lot of that is shutting down.
There is a massive Islamic presence in the prisons.
So some of the prisons have shut us down.
But for us, we just consider that the battle rages on and we're going to continue.
Some of the churches are hesitant to go on the streets these days.
(17:38):
I have noticed that.
However, a lot of that could be
due to the fact that the English weather is not always the best form of open airpresentation.
But the other thing I have noticed, and Ian and I were talking about this, there are somevery, very good individuals and churches that are getting out on the streets proclaiming
(17:58):
the good news of Jesus.
So I've seen a big uptake in that.
although in...
places you hear that the church is not perhaps growing, there are places where it is.
So I'm confident and keen to see what goes on in the next few years.
There are some great Christian men and women out on the streets.
Jude, experiences, you said you've been along to some of the Tough Talks events out andabout to help you get a sense of what they're about to help you write the book.
(18:27):
What have been some of your experiences and what have you noticed and seen as you've beenout and about with Tough Talks?
Yeah, so I went up to the first time I saw them kind of doing their thing was up in Leedswhere there was a you're kind of a whole day of events around a church and some youth
(18:47):
meetings.
So I think so I'm a performer as well as a writer.
And one of the things that really struck me was just the the very professional sort ofstructure of their presentations.
And yet there's nothing slick or impersonal about it.
So the guys that Arthur's talked about the weights just being a hook, but actually I thinkthey're more than a hook.
(19:08):
They're part of your story.
And they're very entertaining.
there's this sense of Joe, when I went, Joe did some lifting with some big, or what do youcall the big, the long barbells?
Yeah, the barbell.
And then,
Ian would be talking whilst then loading more weight on.
then you've got this little anticipation, is Joe going to find it harder?
Is he going to start sweating?
(19:28):
You know, when will it be too much?
And as Joe's doing this, and then he'll put it down for a minute and Arthur will say,right, this is what my life looked like when I was powerlifting.
And there's this brilliant sort of coming and going and adding and looking and somethingvisual and something to listen to.
So yeah, for me, it really struck me just how
know, the guys are very humble and they've learnt.
(19:50):
They've learnt how to tell their story in a way that makes sense to people.
They've learnt how to present in a way that gets their message across.
That's definitely one of things that I noticed most.
Mm, really good.
Now you have ministered in so many different places, Arthur.
This might be a difficult question, but have you got one of your most memorableexperiences while out ministering that you could share with us?
(20:17):
Yeah, you're right.
There's many, many, many.
One of the things that we've done in the past and are still doing, which gives me a great,I don't know what the word would be, I wouldn't say satisfaction, but really encourages
me.
We work with HMS Raleigh down in Devon, Cornwall, and it's a training center for the RoyalNavy.
(20:40):
So we go in there four times a year.
And every time we go in,
we get a new batch of recruits.
So there could be anywhere between 500 and 700.
And we do the same thing.
We go into the chapel, we lift the weights, we have a competition, we share our stories,we give a gospel presentation and pray for them.
But that to me is a highlight.
(21:03):
we, as I say, we've done two.
This year we've got another two to do.
And what I love there is the fact that the chaplains
within the Navy are encouraging these young people, they're encouraging them in their, areChristians, but very few.
And it's just great to see these young people worshiping.
And sometimes they don't even know what they're singing, but it's great to see.
(21:27):
And so that's a great thing that's going on at the moment.
And I'm looking forward to the next one in July and then one in November.
But there are...
So many, I mean, you know, in New York, in Russia, in Moldova, the Philippines, SouthAfrica, it goes on and on and on and on.
But one of the great things for me personally is the fellowship that I have with Ian andJoe to go out with brothers that just want to share their faith.
(21:54):
That's a great experience.
And one of the things I've always encouraged
people to do is to be in fellowship.
If you're struggling, it helps.
But there are many, many, that we could go on about.
Yeah well for our listeners if you're wanting to find out more of these memorable storiesand experiences and some of them are really amazing, do go and check out their new book
(22:21):
Lifting the Darkness 30 Years on the Road with Tough Talk.
Now just before we have a short break Arthur, if someone is wanting to tell others aboutJesus in the UK today, what top tips would you give them?
What I said earlier, know, we don't, in writing the book, it was just, as I say, hopefullyto encourage people.
(22:43):
as an example, I was, I mean, I've told you, I'm in Ipswich for a couple of weeks.
I went to a local gym the other day, and as I got out the car park, there was two or threemen giving out flyers and talking about their faith.
So he approached me.
And I just said something like, you're doing a great job, fellas.
I said, can I have some of your flyers?
(23:04):
So I took a handful of these flyers.
And as I went into the gym, I put one in the lift, I put one in the gym, I put one in thethe toilets as I went in there, and I left one in the in the cafe.
So I was just giving out a few flyers.
So I would just encourage people just to do anything.
Although I wasn't with the lads on the streets.
(23:26):
giving my testimony, I was still doing something.
And hopefully that's what we want, just for people to do something.
If they can't get out on the streets, whether they're old or poorly or whatever, you cando something.
So I would just encourage people to do anything.
Use their talents they've got.
If I could just add to that, to me there's two specific things that come out in the book.
(23:49):
Firstly, start with who you are and what you do.
Don't try and be anything different or do something that someone else does.
Start with what you do and who you are.
These guys are very, very real in their approach.
And the second thing, like Arthur's just said, is that togetherness.
Find someone else to do stuff with so that you're not just going out on your own.
I think those are two really good pieces of advice that they give.
(24:11):
Great, great advice.
Thank you.
Thank you both.
Now we're going to be coming back very soon after these messages.
So do join us in just a moment.
God Whispers Our Life Changes, a book by Michael and Delaine Sulkeld, is an incredibletrue-life story of Michael and Delaine, an ordinary couple who listened as God led them
from joblessness to starting and growing a business, then into ministries that have takenthem from underprivileged neighbourhoods in the United States to rural villages and orphan
(24:43):
care in sub-Saharan Africa.
It is a story of life lessons by example.
of the elation and frustration in starting and growing a business, interwoven withheartwarming and heartbreaking stories of serving in their community and abroad, and how
God led the way in it all.
(25:05):
God Whispers are Life Changes by Michael and Delaine Sulkeld is described as a must-readfor anyone looking for God's direction in serving others.
It is available now.
from their website, GodWhispersForLife.com, as well as on other online retailers.
(25:25):
Do grab yourself a copy today.
If you enjoy listening to this podcast, you can help keep it on the web.
All you've got to do is buy me a coffee.
Head over to BuyMeACoffee.com slash Matt McChlery to make a donation.
There is a link in this episode's show notes.
So go on, buy me a coffee today and help this podcast
(25:45):
to keep supporting Christian books and authors.
Hello, welcome back to the Christian Bookblog podcast where I've been chatting with JudeSimpson and Arthur White all about their new book, Lifting the Darkness, 30 Years on the
Road with Tough Talk.
Now on this side of the podcast, we like to get to know the authors a little bit better.
I think we've got quite a good sense of Arthur with his weightlifting in his past.
(26:10):
What do you like to do for fun, Arthur, other than weightlifting?
What do I like?
It's interesting.
I still train.
I've got little Jim in my garage.
So I still train once or twice a week.
What I do for fun, I like to chill out a little bit more these days.
So I'm not into any other sport really or any other recreation.
(26:32):
I just love chilling out.
My wife...
runs a very, my wife works full time and runs a food bank and storehouse.
So I tried to think that I can support her a little bit in that.
I run a small men's group at my church, I run a men's break.
So I tried to do that.
In all honesty, and I really don't want to come across wrong, I love sharing my faith.
(26:55):
I'm no...
Even doing this is great for me.
It lifts my spirits sharing the faith.
So I love doing that.
Fantastic.
And Jude, have you also got a weightlifting gym in your garage?
What do you do for fun?
I certainly have not.
I have got three sons who are all quite into a little bit of training.
They're aged 11, 13 and 15 at the moment, so just starting out on that.
(27:21):
I've also got a daughter, so I've got four children all together, which gives you a clueof what I spend a lot of my time
you have time for fun?
So I think as a mum, you have to make fun out of all the things that you need to do.
actually say one of the I love hanging out washing funnily enough, I just sometimes findtasks, you know, I don't I'm not good at changing beds.
I hate doing that.
But I don't mind doing the laundry.
So I just get a bit of pleasure out of that on a sunny day.
(27:42):
No, love dancing.
So I'll do that when I can.
I've just started going to a dance aerobics class once a week, getting a
Yeah, getting a bit of a sweat on is good from time to time, but I certainly don't doweights.
Wonderful.
And what about anything, what do you enjoy eating or drinking?
Any sort of favorite meal or kind of a type of food, like a cuisine or something likethat?
(28:05):
Anything you're into?
Well, I'm a big eater.
love eating.
So I'm happy pretty much with anything.
But I would say my favorite dishes would be an eggs Benedict.
I love an eggs Benedict for brunch.
I love a good old traditional Sunday roast.
you Arthur, how about you?
Actually quite similar.
mean, one of the things that I, as a competitive powerlifter and trainer, protein was alsoa big thing for me.
(28:29):
So it's always chicken and tuna and eggs.
And I still like poached eggs, smashed avocado, smoked salmon.
And like Jude, one of my favorite things is a Sunday lunch.
I'm very fortunate that my wife and I live next door to our daughter.
son-in-law and two granddaughters and our son close by also.
(28:50):
And we often meet regularly for Sunday roasts and that's a big thing for us and I do likethat,
Mm, great.
And so at the very beginning of the episode, you mentioned about meeting in a motorwayservice station.
when you do stop at motorway service stations, and it sounds like you do that quite oftenbecause you're traveling a lot, and Jude as well.
(29:12):
We'll hear bit more about your travels in a moment.
What do you go for in the cafe when it's getting something to drink?
Is it, is it a tea or a coffee or a fruit juice?
What's your go-to drink that you order?
My go to drink is coffee.
What sort of coffee?
Sorry?
Is it like a flat white or a cappuccino?
I go for a straight forward Americano and if we're doing a lot of traveling I'll haveanother shot of espresso in it as well.
(29:38):
coffee is my go-to and again with Ian and Joe when we are traveling for whatever reason weall like Americano so we drink coffee.
There you go, dude!
Yeah, funny enough, I'm a coffee person as well.
I'll generally I'll ask for an Americano with hot milk.
These days I have to have it decaffeinated if it's afternoon.
But there we go.
(29:59):
That's part of the aging process.
Yeah.
Wonderful, wonderful.
And let's just talk about things that are going on in the background.
What's coming up soon?
What's going on?
Arthur, you're still traveling around doing lots of presentations.
Are you thinking of another book or some other kind of resource to go alongside whatyou're doing?
(30:19):
What's bubbling in the background with you guys?
Well, I mean, as I say, tough talk is still very busy.
Ian's on the road every week and Joe obviously as well and I'm not traveling nearly asmuch as I've done in the past.
However, what happened during lockdown tough talk started doing podcasts.
(30:40):
We run an alpha online.
We have always met on a Tuesday.
for a prayer meeting and now we meet on Zoom for a prayer meeting.
that is always, and that's been going on for the 30 years we've been together.
But one of the things we do now regularly is on a Friday night.
We have Friday night live with Tough Talk and we have guests on.
(31:03):
So we've sort of not developed it, but we've tried to keep that up as a regular thingbecause obviously there are people that do not see us.
but we can still do some sort of presentation on that.
So we'll probably carry on doing that.
Whether we do another book, I don't know.
There certainly won't be another 30 years on the road with Tough Talk, not for sure, theIndian.
(31:27):
And yeah, so I think for us, we'll carry on as long as we get the invites and we will pushand try and develop perhaps the Friday Night Live and increase that so that more people
see that.
people access or find that Friday Night Live livestream?
well, Tough Talk is www.toughtalk-tough-talk.com.
(31:50):
So they can go online there and find out about that.
And then they can follow that on Facebook on a Friday night.
And that's proven to be quite popular.
A lot of people log in and follow that.
We have a guest on sometimes.
Sometimes it's just Ian and I and Joe talking about life in general or issues.
And a lot of the people that watch us put their comments in and we try and help and answerquestions.
(32:14):
Again, we just want to encourage people in their faith to be in the right place with God,to be the men and women that God wants them to be.
And as Jude said earlier, you know, not to try and, but we don't want to try and createlittle tough talk groups all over the country.
That's not what it's about.
It's about
God developing you and being the person that he wants you to be.
(32:38):
And I think if we do seek God, not, I want to say earnestly, if we seek God in reality tobe what he wants, and if that happens, you'll be surprised where he can take you.
I think sometimes when I've seen young men come to Jesus and have given their life orwhatever you want to call it, however they've made the commitment, all of a sudden they
(32:59):
feel they need to work.
I want to...
They'd say, I want to be involved in worship, I want to be involved in the youth work, Iwant to do outreach.
God is not an employment agent.
He is a father.
He wants us in a relationship first.
So I think we've tried to encourage men and women to be in the right place with God first.
(33:22):
Let Him guide you.
One of the things Ian loves, Joe loves, and we love as many people do, is the Bible.
We love sharing the Word of God, and I think that's important.
We try and encourage people to get into the Word of God.
So I've sort of digressed a bit there and waffled on a bit.
Sorry.
That's fine.
Jude, what's going on with you in the background?
(33:43):
What are you up to?
Yeah, so I've actually just finished my next book, funnily enough.
I've been helping an international manufacturing engineering consultant to write hismemoir and philosophy of change.
that's been extraordinary, actually.
And then his book actually has a faith angle to it as well.
He's very influenced by his Christian beliefs.
(34:05):
I've just finished that.
what I'm mainly doing at the moment, so I mentioned earlier that my kind of
core love is spoken word.
So I write performance poetry and I have an act where I blend spoken word and poetry withfunny songs and some comedy and some nonsense.
And I've got a family show at the moment, which I'm touring.
It's called Annoy's Annoy's.
So you can tell it's all about wordplay as in annoy's, boom, annoy's people.
(34:29):
It's suitable for any age from six plus, really good for kind of six to 12 year olds andtheir families.
So that's just a really fun show with a little bit of
kind of truth and thoughtfulness underlying it.
I'm taking it to Sudbury and Suffolk just after half term.
I've got bookings in Worthing, Dorchester, Bedford, Hereford, various other places.
(34:50):
So you can find me, if you just look up Jude Simpson, you'll pretty much find me all overthe place.
I'm on Facebook, Instagram, and I've got my website and the show is called A Noise, ANoise.
Wonderful.
Can I ask you a question?
Is all your, I mean I've seen you only online, is all your work faith based?
(35:11):
So this is a question I get a lot.
would say, so this show at the moment is not a Christian show.
I do write some material which is specifically inspired by the Bible.
Most of my material is not sort of what people would call Christian.
But I would always say that everything I am and everything I believe is part of who I amas a writer.
(35:33):
and my work is very true to myself.
So I think if you came even to my kids show, which is full of fun and nonsense and veryeasy to invite anybody to, you would be able to detect kind of maybe what my worldview is.
I just have some little lines in there about truth, about the importance of words, aboutthe power of speech and those kind of things.
So everything is influenced, but most of my work would not be considered kind ofChristian.
(35:57):
category wise.
That's lovely.
I mean, I know you as a Christian, so I know it would be that, but I just want to...
Yeah, that's lovely.
You're very talented.
Matt, we're not like Jude.
We can't sing, dance or do anything.
We just lift weights and make a lot of noise.
yeah.
wonderful.
I will put the links to both Tough Talks website and Jude Simpson's website in thisepisode's show notes, so if you are looking to find out more about them you can just click
(36:27):
over there and go straight to where you want to be.
That just leaves me to say thank you so much to Arthur and Jude for joining me on thepodcast today.
Thank you.
Thank you, it's been a pleasure.
Thank you, Matt.
Thanks having us.
It's been great.
It's been great chatting with you guys.
just want to give a really big thank you to the sponsors of today's episode.
(36:48):
This is the book God Whispers Our Life Changes by Michael and Delaine Selkeld.
That book is available now from their website, GodWhispersForLife.com.
Do go and check it out.
And thank you as well for listening to this episode of the Christian Book Blur podcast.
Don't forget, we'll be back really soon.
where I'll be chatting with another Christian author all about their books, their life andtheir faith to encourage you in your discipleship one book at a time.
(37:13):
We land on the first and the fifteenth of every month, so do join us again then.
Thank you and goodbye.
Thanks for listening to Christian Book Blurb with your host, Matt McChlery.
Do give it a like, give it a share and let your friends know all about it.
We do hope to see you again soon on another Christian Book Blurb.
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