December 15, 2025 • 42 mins
In this episode of the Christian Book Blurb, host Matt McChlery speaks with author Faith Chang about her book 'Peace Over Perfection.' They explore the themes of perfectionism, grace, and the cultural pressures that contribute to feelings of inadequacy. Faith shares her personal journey and insights on how to navigate the challenges of perfectionism while embracing God's grace. The conversation emphasizes the importance of self-acceptance and the journey of becoming who God created us to be, rather than striving for unattainable perfection.
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Visit Faith Chang's website
Takeaways
- I know I'm not supposed to be a perfectionist and that's why I feel anxious.
- It's not about being a perfect Christian.
- Struggling with faith is part of the journey.
- Anxiety can cloud our spiritual clarity.
- Finding balance is essential in Christian living.
- Self-acceptance is key to spiritual growth.
- Trusting God is a daily choice.
- Perfectionism leads to unnecessary anxiety.
- Maybe I don't trust God enough.
- Why am I even like this?
Sound Bites
"Trusting God is a daily choice" "Maybe I don't trust God enough" "Why am I even like this?"
Chapters
00:00 Introduction to Perfectionism 02:42 Understanding Perfectionism 05:28 Cultural Pressures and Perfectionism 07:45 The Role of Grace in Perfectionism 10:42 Practical Wisdom from the Book 13:14 Personal Stories and Anecdotes 15:47 The Journey of Becoming 18:45 Closing Thoughts and Prayer
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
This is Christian Book Blurb brought to you by author and songwriter Matt McChlery.
Get a behind the scenes glimpse into the lives of some of your favourite Christianauthors, hear about their books and faith.
Also, why not check out my website, mattmcchlery.com
Well, hello and welcome to another edition of the Christian Book Blurb.
(00:23):
This is the show where we speak to Christian authors all about their lives and their faithand of course their books to help encourage you in your discipleship one book at a time.
I'm your host, Matt McChlery.
Thanks for clicking over here and joining me.
Now on today's show, I'm going to be speaking about perfectionism with the author FaithChang.
(00:45):
So let's welcome Faith.
to the show.
Hi, Faith.
Hi Matt.
Thanks for joining us today.
Now you have written a book called Peace Over Perfection and the subtitle is calledEnjoying a Good God When You Feel You're Never Good Enough.
(01:07):
So what inspired you to write the book?
How did this writing journey begin?
Well, this writing journey began very much so with my own faith journey.
I have been a Christian.
I grew up in a Christian home.
So since I was young, knew the gospel, I really experienced God in uh different ways, Ithink throughout my life.
(01:34):
But the gospel really became alive to me in a new way in the end of high school, beginningof college.
uh
Grace became real to me, but then I also found that Grace also came, it was difficult forme to learn and to receive for much of my life.
(01:56):
And so it kind of came as this personal struggle that I had that the more I really wantedto pursue God, the more it felt actually like I had more and more guilt and more and
kind of burden in following Jesus.
And I wrote about that a little bit online somewhere in the corner of the internet.
And I wasn't sure if other people really resonated with it.
(02:20):
And it was picked up and shared and people really responded to it.
And I saw maybe this wasn't just me.
And from there, know, a couple of steps in between, basically from there, was the seedthat.
So you, you define perfectionism early on in the book.
(02:44):
And that's really quite useful actually, because when I started reading it, I thought,well, you know, aren't we all perfectionists?
So, so what is, what is your definition of perfectionism?
So I basically used a working definition of perfectionism that came from uh psychologistsresearch that happens outside of you know the theological studies um of perfectionism in
(03:13):
general right which uh how they define it is by perfectionistic strivings andperfectionistic concerns.
So perfectionistic strivings are
What we associate with perfectionism, you might see someone with like really highstandards and kind of really striving for the best in whatever it is.
Maybe we can think of perfectionists in terms of athletics or academics or looks orsocially.
(03:40):
uh And so there's this striving and, but the thing that kind of makes perfectionismdifficult is actually the concerns.
So fear of making mistakes.
What if I don't do well on this race?
Or what if I don't look perfect?
Fear, paralysis, what if I make the wrong choice?
(04:02):
I don't want to take this exam because I feel like I'm not going to do well or I don'tknow what paper topic to choose because I don't know if I'm going to get an A.
And also anxiety afterwards and rumination about our mistakes.
I think just personally, maybe this is jumping ahead of the story, I never thought ofmyself as a perfectionist.
(04:27):
You said, aren't we all perfectionists?
And I think for me, was like, well, I'm definitely not a perfectionist because anybodythat looks in my closet will be like, okay, well, you don't have everything altogether,
like physical closet, but also I'm running late often, or I was never the student that waslike, I need to get 100.
(04:47):
And so I didn't really think I was a perfectionist.
But I think, like I shared a little earlier, it was actually in the realm spiritually ofmy life with the Lord that, again, as I understood that I was to pursue Him and to strive
after Him, but um didn't know how to do it without these kinds of fear of failing Him orthe guilt over mistakes that I made.
(05:13):
um And that's what I wrote about, not so much perfectionism in general.
Although I know a lot of people have found help for that depending on how they strugglepersonally.
And I have found that not everybody is a perfectionist.
There really are people who are not.
Like they're really not.
(05:34):
uh people who, it's really funny.
I feel like there's different responses to the book.
People that I know at least, like personally, they'll be like, either like, this is reallyme.
or uh this is not me, but I definitely know someone like this.
And so, and then there are some people who are like, I didn't think I was kind of like me.
didn't think I was a perfectionist, but I read this and this struggle really is kind ofmine.
(06:00):
And yeah.
uh
So it's dealing with that pressure of, possibly put on by ourselves in a way, and of beingthe perfect Christian or the perfect person and, you know, I didn't study my Bible seven
times this week every day.
And then you start beating yourself up about that because you're now feeling guilty, allthat kind of thing.
(06:24):
Do you think our cultures...
What I'm thinking of is everyone these days, from my perspective at least, is told be thebest.
You know, you can do it.
(06:44):
Or there's like some sort of show on television and it's like, yes, you can win orwhatever.
But the thing is only one person can win the show.
There's only going to be one winner.
And does that mean everybody else who's taken part is now worthless?
You know, what does that mean?
What does that look like?
(07:06):
And I don't know, I just get the sense that...
All parents, don't they?
All parents want their kid to be the best kid.
That we've kind of lost...
we've lost...
(07:26):
We've lost the ability to accept less than the best.
I don't know if that didn't come, it's not quite what I'm wanting to say, but, but youknow what I mean?
Like, like being average is no longer allowed.
You know, we all have to be superstars, um, in order to be worth anything, because if youjust average, then that's not good enough.
(07:48):
Um, do you get that same sort of feeling in the culture around you, or is it just me?
Yeah, I guess I could see that.
think, I don't know if it's like a new thing.
I feel like, um at least not in my lifetime, I'm like, I feel like I could see that evenfrom when we were young.
(08:12):
We're like, you're the best, you can do what you want.
And if you put your mind to it, you can achieve this.
I don't know, maybe it's a very American thing.
Maybe that's what it was.
It's kind of spread.
um I do think that there is this sense uh more because of the access that we have todifferent, just people's lives, like a curated access at least.
(08:46):
uh
the key, isn't it?
That's curated, where we only put the best side forward and then you compare your entirelife to one person's best highlight clips and it doesn't match up.
So, no, that's very true.
Sorry.
Keep going.
No, yeah, and I think it's like even, there's just so many more people that we can striveor think that we need to be like.
(09:17):
And usually people, the thing is, especially actually I think in the Christian onlinepresence, people are usually sharing because they, I think,
I guess is assuming the best motive is they feel very strongly about something and theythink other people should know about it.
(09:39):
You know, I mean, that's why we say what we do.
That's why we write what we write, you know, that's why we have podcasts.
It's like, it's understandable.
That's a fine, that's fine as a motivation.
But I think if you really genuinely want to seek God and that's what I'm, that's kind ofthe people that I was writing to in peace over perfection.
It's.
not people who are necessarily like, think we are self-aware enough to know like, I'm nottrying to be better than another person.
(10:07):
I know I'm not supposed to be a perfectionist and that's why I feel anxious because Istruggle and then now I feel so bad about struggling because I know it's not about being a
perfect Christian.
And then you get this spiral where it's like, why am I even like this?
Maybe I don't trust God enough.
Why am I even perfect?
But I think for people and how I've described that or how the Bible describes that, peoplewith like a sensitive conscience.
(10:28):
then when you go online, it's just like, if not only like, if you want to be a goodparent, you need to be this, which is already kind of like, no, what if I mess up and my
kid doesn't end up going to a good school or whatever, to being the best, reaching theirpotential, their best.
I think there's like a Christian version of it that's like, okay, well then also, no, whatif I don't do this and my child uh doesn't become a Christian or what if I don't do this
(10:56):
and.
and I'm not a good Christian, but the thing is you get so many opinions.
There's the person that's like, if you're really a Christian parent, then you have to makesure you uh do XYZ.
And then others will be like, well, if you really are, then you make sure you don't do,and it's like the same XYZ.
(11:19):
And it's impossible.
It's like you're putting, you're seeing everybody's way that they're living out.
Like you have to homeschool and you have to go to Christian school and you have to go topublic school at the same time.
Right.
And you're like, that's not even possible.
How can I do that?
And so I do think there is this added pressure of, you know, where maybe before, right, weonly see people in our church or around us and you're kind of like, Oh, maybe I should be
(11:41):
like her.
And you kind of work through that.
you know, as you get to know the person, okay, like these are her struggles.
This is where she's seen grace and how this is how she's discerned the voice of God in herlife.
Or maybe she can walk with me and be like, well, you don't have to live that.
You know, this is where my conviction came from about school or about even my personal,you know, reading of scripture, like, you know, daily.
(12:03):
And, now it's like all these different things that we feel like we should do if we'regoing to
The net is much wider these days.
Yes, that's right.
And it's also from a distance, so there's no nuance.
Ah, yes, of course.
You don't actually know the people actually for real.
Yeah.
So it's more about becoming the person that God has made us to be rather than becoming theperfect superhero Christian or whatever.
(12:29):
Yeah.
No, that's good.
And your book really helps to dig down into that sort of helping us to learn and discoverand to be okay with things when it's not a hundred percent, you know, shiny or gold or,
you know, everything's fantastic, but actually.
You're working things out with God and actually that's a good place to be rather than, youknow, being a super performing sort of person.
(12:54):
So that's really good.
In your book, you mentioned a variety of ways we can lighten our loads.
So can you just share some of the wisdom from this with our listeners?
So that um concept of lightening our loads, it comes basically from Matthew 11, whereJesus says, come to me, all you who labor and are heavy-laden, and I will give you rest.
(13:22):
Take my yoke upon you.
And so this idea of taking Jesus' yoke upon us, like uh Jesus gives us rest, but it'sactually through carrying the things that he wants us to carry.
Being Christian doesn't mean like I can be free to do whatever I want.
a piece of my soul because I don't have to.
I'm not perfectionist anymore because I don't have to do the things God wants me to do.
(13:44):
I think that's the struggle with perfectionism in terms of Christianity.
Christian perfectionism is what I call it because for other things, for grades, forexample, um you can say to someone, it's okay if you get a B or not.
uh
B minus, whatever it is.
(14:07):
It's okay if you do your best.
But you can't say that in a Christian context.
You can't say like, it's okay if you sin just a little bit, right?
Because it's not okay.
Jesus says you have to be perfect as in the heavenly father is perfect.
um But the way that we carry that, the commands of God um sometimes makes it actually evenharder for.
(14:29):
ourselves or even for others, right?
And so that was the idea.
And it was the idea of examining what are the standards that we think God has placed uponus that he didn't put on us, right?
Like what you said, I have to, I don't know, you read the Bible 80 times a day or I haveto pray before.
I don't know if you've heard, I remember hearing this when I was younger, what people werelike, and this is, again, this is okay if this is someone's personal conviction as they
(14:55):
work out with the Lord.
But then hearing people saying like, no breakfast before Bible, you know, because theBible is more important than eating, right?
And so I'm like, okay, okay, there's that.
And um so this like extra biblical, the standard that's not from the Bible that somebodyhad that was their own conviction, which is fine.
But then for me to hear it and be like, okay, that means that I have to do it too.
(15:17):
And so I think that someone that struggles again with that more sensitive conscience putwhat might put on more and more of these.
laws upon ourselves that God hasn't necessarily given us in the scripture.
either it's personal convictions or maybe even like sometimes like superstition.
I call it superstition, even though, you know, like these uh sayings that Christian havethat aren't necessarily true all the time.
(15:44):
For example, you know, the idea that if you don't want to do something, then God's goingto make you do it, right?
There's so many stories like that, which like, you know, sometimes
It is true.
changes our hearts.
are Jonah.
There's ways that I'm sure I have never experienced in my life or uh in ministry.
But that doesn't mean, I think when we keep on telling those stories, then we think, well,I didn't want to do it, but look at where I ended up, you know, without the nuance in
(16:09):
between of, God actually didn't just say like, ha ha, you you don't want it, so I'm goingto make you suffer.
You know, it's like, no, like it's more nuanced.
It's okay.
Well, like I didn't know that this was actually something good that God was calling me to.
But then from that, there's a superstition maybe of like, if I don't want to do it, that'swhat God wants me to do.
And that's like that, or, or yeah, even like practices, right?
(16:34):
Of, okay, I'm going to pray for safety and something maybe you might teach your kids.
Like I'm going to pray before when we start driving or something like that for a trip.
But then it slowly becomes more and like, well, if I don't then, then something bad'sgoing to happen.
And so.
It's almost like um a story I heard once of this chap.
(16:56):
His mother always cooked him a roast uh beef joint and she would always cut the end offbefore she put it in the oven.
And then he grew up and left the house.
And whenever he cooked his roast beef joint, he chopped the end off.
And then his mom came around one day and he cooked
(17:18):
the roast beef joint and he chopped the end off and his mom said, what are you doing thatfor?
Why do do that?
And he says, well, because I watched you and that's how you always did it, mom.
And she said, well, that was just because it wouldn't fit in the oven.
And so sometimes we get caught up, don't we?
We, we, we do things without really understanding why, or it doesn't fit us or our contextor our journey with God.
(17:48):
Um, but we do them because we think, this is how it's done.
And as you're saying, it's, stuff that isn't in the Bible.
It's just sort of this extra stuff that we've tried to kind of attach onto things.
Um, and then we discover, well, actually, you know, it was great for that person, butbecause their oven was smaller or whatever, but for me is different.
(18:12):
I don't have to chop the end of my roast beef or if I can cook the whole thing, because itwill fit inside my oven.
or whatever.
just that kind of idea.
No, that's really good.
uh
I think what you said about it's about becoming who God wants you to be.
It's like in this relationship, like you said that earlier, and it's very much that storykind of captures that it's about – I mean, this isn't necessarily what Peace of Perfection
(18:40):
is about, but the idea is that's the heart of it, which is God relates with us asindividuals and he relates with us.
It's about a relationship, not about a cookie cutter formula of
being of Christianity.
we see that as if you're a parent, Like you have, you have, they kids came from you, butthey're very different.
(19:01):
And so because of that, they need something different and your standards of right or wrongdo not change, right?
Of it's still, you still need to live in truth.
You still need to be kind, right?
But the way that what they need in relationship to you will be different and you're notchanging, but because of what they need.
(19:22):
You're coming alongside of them and seeing what God is doing in their lives, which is veryindividual.
so I think that pot roast story is great for that.
At the end of your book, there's a section called You are not yet where you will be andyou say a quote from the book is This vision of our future selves may seem remote But it's
(19:51):
precisely when it feels far away that we need it the most What do we need to do when wefeel pressured by perfectionism?
How can we counteract?
this tendency.
Yeah, I think what I was trying to do, even in that kind of section, was to point peopleto the idea that this desire, at least the desire to be the people who God wants us to be,
(20:19):
a desire to be holy, desire to be loving and be like Jesus.
The desire to be perfect is actually a good one.
It's something that is from the beginning of scripture.
We were made to be in communion with the Lord.
We were made to be
like Jesus and that's the call for our whole lives.
And the amazing thing is that that is actually what is promised to us, right?
(20:42):
It's promised to us that when Jesus comes back, there will be a day where we're notstruggling with sin anymore, right?
I think there are many reasons why I look forward to heaven, but I remember one of theearliest reasons for me when I was struggling in...
um
(21:03):
earlier in my walk with God with this idea of like, why do I even, why am I even here ifI'm going to sin every day?
You know, was I think for the first time I started being like, wow, I really look forwardto when I don't have to wrestle with my flesh anymore.
Right.
I wrestle.
I look forward to the day where one day I will look upon my savior and, and I would beglorified, right.
(21:26):
be, be made like him fully.
And, um,
And that's like a hope that's given to us in first John, right?
We will be like him because we'll see him as he is.
And um that hope is actually, there is this kind of longing that we have in our everydaylives.
(21:47):
And this lament, which makes sense, right?
Because we're still not that.
um But daily we can say Jesus, like, you know, thank you for your forgiveness, your grace,your spirits in us making me more and more like that, right?
I'm not who,
I was.
ah Sometimes when we struggle, it can feel like, I'm the same person that I was yesterday,or I'm still struggling with this now.
(22:08):
But kind of this idea uh of having that longer view of sanctification, right?
Like, well, am I the same person that I was five years ago or 10 years ago?
Then you can see a little bit more, okay, like this is how God has changed me.
This is how he
(22:29):
I am being made more like Jesus by His Spirit, by His grace.
about small steps rather than giant leaps.
And over time.
Yeah, that's right.
That's great.
Now at the end of each chapter, you write out a prayer.
And as we come to the end of this first part of the show, I was wondering, could you reador pray the prayer that you wrote that's entitled, A Prayer for When Your Best Doesn't
(23:03):
Feel
good enough.
Yes, it would be my pleasure.
A prayer for when your best doesn't feel good enough.
Gracious God, my soul blesses your name.
Thank you for forgiving all my sins and healing me, for redeeming my life from the pit andcrowning me with love and compassion.
(23:25):
You satisfy my desire with good things and renew me day by day.
From every possible view of my life, I see grace upon grace.
Lord, you have been so good to me that I wish I had an offering worthy of you.
Yet when I consider what I have, none of it seems good enough.
Still, in view of your mercy, I am compelled to bring what I have to offer myself as aliving sacrifice.
(23:50):
I offer you my worship, fill my days with thanksgiving and my mouth with your praise.
I offer my strength and service to your kingdom, in my workplace, at home, at church, inmy community and in the world.
Help me love others with all that I am and have.
Increase my love that it may abound more and more.
I offer you my weaknesses and my insufficiencies.
(24:12):
May your grace and strength be made perfect and put on display.
God, I don't have much, but everything I have, give to you.
Thank you for stooping down to receive me and my gifts so graciously.
Though my heart feels the smallness of my offering, I offer even that to you.
the sadness that I don't have more to give.
(24:33):
My broken and contrite heart, O God, you will not despise.
Be pleased to make it yours.
In Jesus' name, amen.
Amen.
Thank you, Faith.
And the Christian Book Blub Show will be back just after these, so stay tuned.
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(24:57):
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(25:18):
Hello, welcome back to the Christian Bookler show.
I've been chatting with author Faith Chang all about her book, Peace Over Perfectionbefore the break.
Now on this side of the break, Faith, we like to get to know the author a little bitbetter.
um I usually start asking people what they do for fun, but I think because I'minterviewing you over sort of an internet connection,
(25:46):
I can see behind you there's a picture which looks very similar to the cover of your book,Piece Over Perfection, but it isn't quite.
So is there a little story behind that piece of art?
Well that, yeah that was behind me for those of you who are listening.
There's this, the cover of Piece of Her Perfection is a kind of like a terracotta vasewith a plant, a green plant kind of flowing over everywhere.
(26:18):
And so that was a print that was made by the designer of the book cover who, yeah, fourpeople who were
we're getting the book and with it on to on in front of it.
I mean on it um is the verse kind of the main verse that that was behind the heart of thisbook, which is in Psalm 116 return all my soul to your rest for the Lord has dealt
(26:42):
bountifully with you.
But I love.
Yeah, I loved it.
I love the cover.
I don't have, I didn't get to choose it.
I mean I did get a say in it, but I don't make it.
I'm which I didn't want to because I'm not an artist in that way.
But
The second that I saw it, I was like, this is perfect.
I love it so much.
And so I'm really grateful for it.
That's wonderful and yes, when I first saw it I thought, it's the book cover but then Ilooked a bit closely and like, no it isn't!
(27:09):
It's like similar but different.
So, you appreciate art and that sort of thing?
Do you go to galleries and that
I do, I've learned to appreciate it more and more.
My children have inherited this artistic ability not from me, have four kids.
(27:33):
And they're just, I think they surpassed me in their ability to draw like by the time theywere four.
so, which I don't know if it speaks like to me or to them or probably both of us.
I mean, sides, but yeah, like I, it amazes me.
So I think I enjoy it for like me, uh but I also enjoy it going to bring them.
(27:57):
uh I mean, there's just amazing.
went to an art gallery with.
and in LA, the Getty Center with my, one of my daughters.
And, and, and there was this painting that she loved an impressionistic painting.
And she asked me to take a picture of it on my phone.
And I took it and I was like, this looks okay.
But then like the second she looked at the picture, she's like, ah, the green is not thesame.
(28:20):
And I was like, well, it looked the same to me.
So I don't think I have the same eye.
But those who know, like the artists are really like, yeah, yeah, you can't get it.
doesn't, I'm like, okay, I didn't know that there was a difference between what I see onmy screen and in person, but there is, and it makes so much sense, right, that there is.
But I do enjoy, yeah, I enjoy going with them.
(28:45):
No, that's good.
What other things do you enjoy doing with your children?
Uh, yeah, I think they're getting to this.
My kids are in elementary school and, and in junior high and high school, middle and high.
We have a spread and they're getting to this age of fun or not.
But I mean, they're fun in different ways and different times, but a funny age where it'slike, you know, some of the, we like games.
(29:11):
like games and where, where it's a little bit more competent, you know, they can, theycan, they can beat me now, uh, or be all close to it.
at least with a handicap, you know, give them a little bit of a advantage.
But, um, and so I think, yeah, we, we like, we like games, um, getting into, yeah, boardgames, um, game.
(29:36):
Well, my six, see this, my, I I loved this game and now my six year old's learning.
I don't know if you've ever played the game set.
It's like, find different, um, you find different like,
It's kind like a brain teaser game.
think those are the games I enjoy, like word games, brain teaser games, um where you kindof have to find a set of cards that are laid out before you um with characteristics that
(30:03):
match across the board or don't match across the board.
It's kind of hard to explain, but it's fun that they're learning these games that I lovedto play when I was younger and are still kind of like, you can still play now as an adult.
Like we played, I remember when my kids started liking to play code names, this like wordgame that's fun.
(30:23):
uh And yeah, what are the other games?
don't know.
They, some of them, they, they pull out my husband for like monopoly, monopoly.
Those games are little too long for me.
I'm kind of a sore loser.
So I don't, I don't like, I don't like investing in games where I'm like, I did all that.
bang.
That's like an old game, but we recently got them into it.
(30:46):
Um, and so, yeah.
nice.
Good.
um do you have any favorite things to eat?
Or it might be like sort of a particular kind of style of cuisine or something.
What's your favorite?
Yeah, my comfort food is probably Cantonese food.
(31:07):
So like Chinese food.
But like Hong Kong style because you China is so huge.
There's like a lot of different kinds of food.
ah
And is this, is this going to be authentic Chinese food or like, you know, the Westernversion of Chinese food?
Cause I know in the UK you go, oh, we go to a Chinese restaurant and you go there and it'sexactly the same food that you get in all the Chinese restaurants.
(31:33):
It's exactly the same.
You go to China and no one's ever heard of it, you know.
Yeah.
So, um, that, is a different category, like takeout food.
I guess that's we call it.
Like takeout Chinese food.
It's just not, it's just a different kind of food.
It's not necessarily Chinese food.
Maybe it's Chinese inspired food for American tastes, at least here.
(31:53):
Um, or not American.
mean, we're Chinese Americans.
So, uh, for, know, non Chinese tastes, guess Chinese takeout.
and so, but, um, but my kids, yeah, me and my kids, we do enjoy.
the authentic stuff, mostly because it's actually kind of hard to cook.
uh So I'm Chinese American, but, and, you know, my kids kind of have to, they're, theyhave, they love pizza.
(32:20):
We live, we live in Staten Island, New York.
There's a lot of Italian Americans, like any pizzeria that you go to is going to be goodbecause it's lasted.
It's kind of one of those things.
So I think sometimes when you go to China, you know, Chinatown, right?
It's kind of the same idea, like where there's places that's authentic, that if it'slasted,
that long, it's good.
Yeah.
(32:40):
Nice.
Nice.
Good.
What do you enjoy doing in your free time or for your leisure time?
Yeah, I'm kind of boring in this.
really do like to read.
But again, it's my kids too.
(33:00):
uh My kids are also, now I'm more and more, it's like, I'll be like, can you talk to me?
They're like in the book, like you gotta go to sleep.
And they're like reading.
And so that was me.
So we do, it's story grip.
is a real thing in the Chang household where, I just finish?
(33:20):
One of my kids has this, actually I have it too, my sister bought us all these shirtsthat's like just one more page and then it's crossed out and then a chapter and it's
crossed out and then it's like book.
So just one more book.
And so yeah, that really is kind of what we do.
We do love to read around here.
(33:41):
And do you like to read the same kind of books that you write or do you like to read stuffthat's totally different like fiction or fantasy or anything like
That's a good question.
do, I enjoy, but probably tangentially, I think you could probably see some of theinfluence of it in the way that I write, but I do enjoy good essay writing, good memoir,
(34:08):
kind of like personal essays, but also personal essays that explore a theme or maybepopular level science books.
There's this book that I read.
last year that I love, it's called An Immense World.
Have you read it?
It's about the sensory world of animals.
It's just like, and it's so well written in that it's like journalists.
think I don't write journalistically.
(34:30):
So this kind of journalistic first person kind of style where you're in the experience ofthe writer, but he's teaching you something that's always pretty fun to me too.
um And, know, like whatever fit now.
Now I'll ask my kids for recommendations for fiction books that they'll either be like,yeah, you'll like this, or they'll be reading a book and I'm like, you don't really like
(34:54):
it.
I don't think you'll like it.
It's very important for me to not be lied to in books.
Like even in stories, I really don't like betrayal or not knowing who the bad and goodguys are.
I'm really bad with suspense that way.
So I'll maybe flip to the end and find out like, just to make sure you're still good.
Um, or bad or so, so it's good to have someone screen it, you know, so that sometimesthey'll be like, you will not like this plot twist.
(35:18):
I'm like, I'm not going to read it, but a little bit sensitive that way.
But so fiction fiction too, as long as it's not too, too hard on my psyche and kind of myemotional loving.
That's great, thank you Faith.
Tea or coffee?
Tea.
Tea.
Tea with cream and sugar.
(35:40):
Yeah.
And where is the best tea place to go in?
Is it Manhattan?
New York?
Where are you placed?
Yes, I live in Staten Island, New York.
Sutton Island, yeah, where's the best tea place in Sutton Island?
I don't go, I mean, there are a lot of more and more now uh boba, bubble tea places.
(36:02):
Like some milk tea with, and so there's, you know, there are some of those like, think,Cha, Gong Cha, or yeah, so it's cheaper.
It's less expensive.
So I do get a British British British blend some so whatever I can find in my local storethat in the internet International section which to get like a British blend ah And then I
(36:27):
think it's the Hong Kong so my kid my parents are from Hong Kong So I grew up even beforelike bubble tea became a thing right before milk tea was a thing here ah That you know the
British milk, you know tea with cream and sugar But then the Hong Kong version is likesuper super strong tea
Um, it's almost like coffee.
They they were drinking coffee, like a tea version.
(36:50):
And so that's probably that, that, uh, that influence from when I was a kid.
really good, really good.
um
to your coffee for you, Matt?
it's coffee for me.
Coffee for me, although sort of mid to late afternoon, I switched to a, it's not thetraditional tea.
(37:13):
I like a peppermint tea.
It's strange.
I never thought I would, but yeah.
So, so, so it's coffee to get me going, you know, in the morning, but then sort of midafternoon, I feel that my caffeine intake is, is, has gone far enough.
So then I switched to something like a peppermint tea.
yeah.
Thank you for asking.
(37:33):
good.
Um, chocolates or sweets?
Um, so...
Or candy, I guess you'd call it.
okay.
was going to say, was like, what is a pastries probably.
I'm more like to the bread.
oh
know, I'm with you there.
(37:54):
I'm with you there.
Oh, good pastry for me.
a cinnamon, a cinnamon bun.
Oh yes.
Oh, I'll do that.
you know, any day, any day.
It's like bread out of carbs.
Yeah.
Go ahead.
oh
do too, was gonna say if my wife's with me I won't be allowed to eat it.
(38:14):
uh
She's looking out for you, looking out for
she knows how much I love carbs, it's true.
Anyway, good.
What is the Holy Spirit doing in your life at the moment?
Is he doing something or is he putting something on your heart that you feel you can sharewith our listeners today?
Yeah, what a great question.
think, I think for me, there's this, and you can see it in the theme because this is whatI did.
(38:41):
I talked about already.
It's this again, like in a deeper way, this resting and trusting in the grace of God formy life.
Uh, and for the lives of those I care about as, yeah, as I'm raising kids, as they getolder, as I serve my husband's,
pastor and we're serving in ministry.
(39:03):
We've been at our church for 15 years.
So as we look at other people's lives and we're praying for them and asking for God towork, you know, there is a sense that earlier in my life of understanding the grace of God
and forgiveness, that consistently is something I returned to.
But I think this idea of like the grace of God over the story of our lives, you know,
(39:27):
I'm already feeling some of the failures that I've had as a parent and as just mylimitations as I've served people in my church.
so I think returning to like really trusting, okay, it was reading in Psalm 180, I mean,130, 180, 130, if this calling out to God for mercy and if you kept a record of sins, who
(39:50):
could stand, right?
with you there's forgiveness and therefore you're feared.
And so this understanding of like our stories are go beyond my own ability to, to parentthe perfect way, right?
To, or even, yeah, to, to believe that not only is there forgiveness, but, um, but that asI look to my kids and as I pray for them to walk with Jesus,
(40:17):
that he will be gracious to them even in their mistakes and even in their failure.
So that's returning again and again to that.
Yeah.
That's great, Faith.
Thank you for sharing that.
Now, just before we finish, where can people find you on social media?
Can they connect you if they've got a website?
And also, where can they buy your book, Peace Over Perfection?
(40:43):
Um, I, the landing page probably that's easier to find everything is my website, keepingheart.
So keeping heart, um, dot com.
And from there, there'll be links to different social media.
I'm not super, super active on those things.
but if there's any updates, they'll come, come that way through sub stack or Instagram.
(41:06):
and yeah, the book, I think if you Google it, peace over perfection, wherever your localbooks.
Well, wherever you get your online books, some local Christian books may have it.
Or you can get it straight from the publisher, the Good Book Company, they also ship.
so, yeah, those are places where you can get
(41:27):
They've got branches all over, they?
They're based in America, the UK and Australia as well.
Good for companies.
So, the is everywhere, which is wonderful.
Well, that's fantastic.
Thank you, Faith, for joining me today on The Christian Book Blub Show.
It's been fantastic having you join us.
Well, thank you so much for having me here.
(41:50):
It's been a pleasure.
Thank you as well for listening to this episode of The Christian Book Blob.
Don't forget we come every two weeks almost.
It's twice a month.
We come on the 1st and on the 15th.
So there'll be another new episode really soon.
And so join me again then as I speak to another Christian author all about their books,their life and their faith to help you grow in your discipleship one book at a time.
(42:18):
Thank you and goodbye.
Thanks for listening to Christian Book Blurb with your host Matt McCleary.
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This is Christian Book Blurb brought to you by author and songwriter Matt McChlery.
Get a behind the scenes glimpse into the lives of some of your favourite Christianauthors, hear about their books and faith.
Also, why not check out my website, mattmcchlery.com
Well, hello and welcome to another edition of the Christian Book Blurb.
(00:23):
This is the show where we speak to Christian authors all about their lives and their faithand of course their books to help encourage you in your discipleship one book at a time.
I'm your host, Matt McChlery.
Thanks for clicking over here and joining me.
Now on today's show, I'm going to be speaking about perfectionism with the author FaithChang.
(00:45):
So let's welcome Faith.
to the show.
Hi, Faith.
Hi Matt.
Thanks for joining us today.
Now you have written a book called Peace Over Perfection and the subtitle is calledEnjoying a Good God When You Feel You're Never Good Enough.
(01:07):
So what inspired you to write the book?
How did this writing journey begin?
Well, this writing journey began very much so with my own faith journey.
I have been a Christian.
I grew up in a Christian home.
So since I was young, knew the gospel, I really experienced God in uh different ways, Ithink throughout my life.
(01:34):
But the gospel really became alive to me in a new way in the end of high school, beginningof college.
uh
Grace became real to me, but then I also found that Grace also came, it was difficult forme to learn and to receive for much of my life.
(01:56):
And so it kind of came as this personal struggle that I had that the more I really wantedto pursue God, the more it felt actually like I had more and more guilt and more and
kind of burden in following Jesus.
And I wrote about that a little bit online somewhere in the corner of the internet.
And I wasn't sure if other people really resonated with it.
(02:20):
And it was picked up and shared and people really responded to it.
And I saw maybe this wasn't just me.
And from there, know, a couple of steps in between, basically from there, was the seedthat.
So you, you define perfectionism early on in the book.
(02:44):
And that's really quite useful actually, because when I started reading it, I thought,well, you know, aren't we all perfectionists?
So, so what is, what is your definition of perfectionism?
So I basically used a working definition of perfectionism that came from uh psychologistsresearch that happens outside of you know the theological studies um of perfectionism in
(03:13):
general right which uh how they define it is by perfectionistic strivings andperfectionistic concerns.
So perfectionistic strivings are
What we associate with perfectionism, you might see someone with like really highstandards and kind of really striving for the best in whatever it is.
Maybe we can think of perfectionists in terms of athletics or academics or looks orsocially.
(03:40):
uh And so there's this striving and, but the thing that kind of makes perfectionismdifficult is actually the concerns.
So fear of making mistakes.
What if I don't do well on this race?
Or what if I don't look perfect?
Fear, paralysis, what if I make the wrong choice?
(04:02):
I don't want to take this exam because I feel like I'm not going to do well or I don'tknow what paper topic to choose because I don't know if I'm going to get an A.
And also anxiety afterwards and rumination about our mistakes.
I think just personally, maybe this is jumping ahead of the story, I never thought ofmyself as a perfectionist.
(04:27):
You said, aren't we all perfectionists?
And I think for me, was like, well, I'm definitely not a perfectionist because anybodythat looks in my closet will be like, okay, well, you don't have everything altogether,
like physical closet, but also I'm running late often, or I was never the student that waslike, I need to get 100.
(04:47):
And so I didn't really think I was a perfectionist.
But I think, like I shared a little earlier, it was actually in the realm spiritually ofmy life with the Lord that, again, as I understood that I was to pursue Him and to strive
after Him, but um didn't know how to do it without these kinds of fear of failing Him orthe guilt over mistakes that I made.
(05:13):
um And that's what I wrote about, not so much perfectionism in general.
Although I know a lot of people have found help for that depending on how they strugglepersonally.
And I have found that not everybody is a perfectionist.
There really are people who are not.
Like they're really not.
(05:34):
uh people who, it's really funny.
I feel like there's different responses to the book.
People that I know at least, like personally, they'll be like, either like, this is reallyme.
or uh this is not me, but I definitely know someone like this.
And so, and then there are some people who are like, I didn't think I was kind of like me.
didn't think I was a perfectionist, but I read this and this struggle really is kind ofmine.
(06:00):
And yeah.
uh
So it's dealing with that pressure of, possibly put on by ourselves in a way, and of beingthe perfect Christian or the perfect person and, you know, I didn't study my Bible seven
times this week every day.
And then you start beating yourself up about that because you're now feeling guilty, allthat kind of thing.
(06:24):
Do you think our cultures...
What I'm thinking of is everyone these days, from my perspective at least, is told be thebest.
You know, you can do it.
(06:44):
Or there's like some sort of show on television and it's like, yes, you can win orwhatever.
But the thing is only one person can win the show.
There's only going to be one winner.
And does that mean everybody else who's taken part is now worthless?
You know, what does that mean?
What does that look like?
(07:06):
And I don't know, I just get the sense that...
All parents, don't they?
All parents want their kid to be the best kid.
That we've kind of lost...
we've lost...
(07:26):
We've lost the ability to accept less than the best.
I don't know if that didn't come, it's not quite what I'm wanting to say, but, but youknow what I mean?
Like, like being average is no longer allowed.
You know, we all have to be superstars, um, in order to be worth anything, because if youjust average, then that's not good enough.
(07:48):
Um, do you get that same sort of feeling in the culture around you, or is it just me?
Yeah, I guess I could see that.
think, I don't know if it's like a new thing.
I feel like, um at least not in my lifetime, I'm like, I feel like I could see that evenfrom when we were young.
(08:12):
We're like, you're the best, you can do what you want.
And if you put your mind to it, you can achieve this.
I don't know, maybe it's a very American thing.
Maybe that's what it was.
It's kind of spread.
um I do think that there is this sense uh more because of the access that we have todifferent, just people's lives, like a curated access at least.
(08:46):
uh
the key, isn't it?
That's curated, where we only put the best side forward and then you compare your entirelife to one person's best highlight clips and it doesn't match up.
So, no, that's very true.
Sorry.
Keep going.
No, yeah, and I think it's like even, there's just so many more people that we can striveor think that we need to be like.
(09:17):
And usually people, the thing is, especially actually I think in the Christian onlinepresence, people are usually sharing because they, I think,
I guess is assuming the best motive is they feel very strongly about something and theythink other people should know about it.
(09:39):
You know, I mean, that's why we say what we do.
That's why we write what we write, you know, that's why we have podcasts.
It's like, it's understandable.
That's a fine, that's fine as a motivation.
But I think if you really genuinely want to seek God and that's what I'm, that's kind ofthe people that I was writing to in peace over perfection.
It's.
not people who are necessarily like, think we are self-aware enough to know like, I'm nottrying to be better than another person.
(10:07):
I know I'm not supposed to be a perfectionist and that's why I feel anxious because Istruggle and then now I feel so bad about struggling because I know it's not about being a
perfect Christian.
And then you get this spiral where it's like, why am I even like this?
Maybe I don't trust God enough.
Why am I even perfect?
But I think for people and how I've described that or how the Bible describes that, peoplewith like a sensitive conscience.
(10:28):
then when you go online, it's just like, if not only like, if you want to be a goodparent, you need to be this, which is already kind of like, no, what if I mess up and my
kid doesn't end up going to a good school or whatever, to being the best, reaching theirpotential, their best.
I think there's like a Christian version of it that's like, okay, well then also, no, whatif I don't do this and my child uh doesn't become a Christian or what if I don't do this
(10:56):
and.
and I'm not a good Christian, but the thing is you get so many opinions.
There's the person that's like, if you're really a Christian parent, then you have to makesure you uh do XYZ.
And then others will be like, well, if you really are, then you make sure you don't do,and it's like the same XYZ.
(11:19):
And it's impossible.
It's like you're putting, you're seeing everybody's way that they're living out.
Like you have to homeschool and you have to go to Christian school and you have to go topublic school at the same time.
Right.
And you're like, that's not even possible.
How can I do that?
And so I do think there is this added pressure of, you know, where maybe before, right, weonly see people in our church or around us and you're kind of like, Oh, maybe I should be
(11:41):
like her.
And you kind of work through that.
you know, as you get to know the person, okay, like these are her struggles.
This is where she's seen grace and how this is how she's discerned the voice of God in herlife.
Or maybe she can walk with me and be like, well, you don't have to live that.
You know, this is where my conviction came from about school or about even my personal,you know, reading of scripture, like, you know, daily.
(12:03):
And, now it's like all these different things that we feel like we should do if we'regoing to
The net is much wider these days.
Yes, that's right.
And it's also from a distance, so there's no nuance.
Ah, yes, of course.
You don't actually know the people actually for real.
Yeah.
So it's more about becoming the person that God has made us to be rather than becoming theperfect superhero Christian or whatever.
(12:29):
Yeah.
No, that's good.
And your book really helps to dig down into that sort of helping us to learn and discoverand to be okay with things when it's not a hundred percent, you know, shiny or gold or,
you know, everything's fantastic, but actually.
You're working things out with God and actually that's a good place to be rather than, youknow, being a super performing sort of person.
(12:54):
So that's really good.
In your book, you mentioned a variety of ways we can lighten our loads.
So can you just share some of the wisdom from this with our listeners?
So that um concept of lightening our loads, it comes basically from Matthew 11, whereJesus says, come to me, all you who labor and are heavy-laden, and I will give you rest.
(13:22):
Take my yoke upon you.
And so this idea of taking Jesus' yoke upon us, like uh Jesus gives us rest, but it'sactually through carrying the things that he wants us to carry.
Being Christian doesn't mean like I can be free to do whatever I want.
a piece of my soul because I don't have to.
I'm not perfectionist anymore because I don't have to do the things God wants me to do.
(13:44):
I think that's the struggle with perfectionism in terms of Christianity.
Christian perfectionism is what I call it because for other things, for grades, forexample, um you can say to someone, it's okay if you get a B or not.
uh
B minus, whatever it is.
(14:07):
It's okay if you do your best.
But you can't say that in a Christian context.
You can't say like, it's okay if you sin just a little bit, right?
Because it's not okay.
Jesus says you have to be perfect as in the heavenly father is perfect.
um But the way that we carry that, the commands of God um sometimes makes it actually evenharder for.
(14:29):
ourselves or even for others, right?
And so that was the idea.
And it was the idea of examining what are the standards that we think God has placed uponus that he didn't put on us, right?
Like what you said, I have to, I don't know, you read the Bible 80 times a day or I haveto pray before.
I don't know if you've heard, I remember hearing this when I was younger, what people werelike, and this is, again, this is okay if this is someone's personal conviction as they
(14:55):
work out with the Lord.
But then hearing people saying like, no breakfast before Bible, you know, because theBible is more important than eating, right?
And so I'm like, okay, okay, there's that.
And um so this like extra biblical, the standard that's not from the Bible that somebodyhad that was their own conviction, which is fine.
But then for me to hear it and be like, okay, that means that I have to do it too.
(15:17):
And so I think that someone that struggles again with that more sensitive conscience putwhat might put on more and more of these.
laws upon ourselves that God hasn't necessarily given us in the scripture.
either it's personal convictions or maybe even like sometimes like superstition.
I call it superstition, even though, you know, like these uh sayings that Christian havethat aren't necessarily true all the time.
(15:44):
For example, you know, the idea that if you don't want to do something, then God's goingto make you do it, right?
There's so many stories like that, which like, you know, sometimes
It is true.
changes our hearts.
are Jonah.
There's ways that I'm sure I have never experienced in my life or uh in ministry.
But that doesn't mean, I think when we keep on telling those stories, then we think, well,I didn't want to do it, but look at where I ended up, you know, without the nuance in
(16:09):
between of, God actually didn't just say like, ha ha, you you don't want it, so I'm goingto make you suffer.
You know, it's like, no, like it's more nuanced.
It's okay.
Well, like I didn't know that this was actually something good that God was calling me to.
But then from that, there's a superstition maybe of like, if I don't want to do it, that'swhat God wants me to do.
And that's like that, or, or yeah, even like practices, right?
(16:34):
Of, okay, I'm going to pray for safety and something maybe you might teach your kids.
Like I'm going to pray before when we start driving or something like that for a trip.
But then it slowly becomes more and like, well, if I don't then, then something bad'sgoing to happen.
And so.
It's almost like um a story I heard once of this chap.
(16:56):
His mother always cooked him a roast uh beef joint and she would always cut the end offbefore she put it in the oven.
And then he grew up and left the house.
And whenever he cooked his roast beef joint, he chopped the end off.
And then his mom came around one day and he cooked
(17:18):
the roast beef joint and he chopped the end off and his mom said, what are you doing thatfor?
Why do do that?
And he says, well, because I watched you and that's how you always did it, mom.
And she said, well, that was just because it wouldn't fit in the oven.
And so sometimes we get caught up, don't we?
We, we, we do things without really understanding why, or it doesn't fit us or our contextor our journey with God.
(17:48):
Um, but we do them because we think, this is how it's done.
And as you're saying, it's, stuff that isn't in the Bible.
It's just sort of this extra stuff that we've tried to kind of attach onto things.
Um, and then we discover, well, actually, you know, it was great for that person, butbecause their oven was smaller or whatever, but for me is different.
(18:12):
I don't have to chop the end of my roast beef or if I can cook the whole thing, because itwill fit inside my oven.
or whatever.
just that kind of idea.
No, that's really good.
uh
I think what you said about it's about becoming who God wants you to be.
It's like in this relationship, like you said that earlier, and it's very much that storykind of captures that it's about – I mean, this isn't necessarily what Peace of Perfection
(18:40):
is about, but the idea is that's the heart of it, which is God relates with us asindividuals and he relates with us.
It's about a relationship, not about a cookie cutter formula of
being of Christianity.
we see that as if you're a parent, Like you have, you have, they kids came from you, butthey're very different.
(19:01):
And so because of that, they need something different and your standards of right or wrongdo not change, right?
Of it's still, you still need to live in truth.
You still need to be kind, right?
But the way that what they need in relationship to you will be different and you're notchanging, but because of what they need.
(19:22):
You're coming alongside of them and seeing what God is doing in their lives, which is veryindividual.
so I think that pot roast story is great for that.
At the end of your book, there's a section called You are not yet where you will be andyou say a quote from the book is This vision of our future selves may seem remote But it's
(19:51):
precisely when it feels far away that we need it the most What do we need to do when wefeel pressured by perfectionism?
How can we counteract?
this tendency.
Yeah, I think what I was trying to do, even in that kind of section, was to point peopleto the idea that this desire, at least the desire to be the people who God wants us to be,
(20:19):
a desire to be holy, desire to be loving and be like Jesus.
The desire to be perfect is actually a good one.
It's something that is from the beginning of scripture.
We were made to be in communion with the Lord.
We were made to be
like Jesus and that's the call for our whole lives.
And the amazing thing is that that is actually what is promised to us, right?
(20:42):
It's promised to us that when Jesus comes back, there will be a day where we're notstruggling with sin anymore, right?
I think there are many reasons why I look forward to heaven, but I remember one of theearliest reasons for me when I was struggling in...
um
(21:03):
earlier in my walk with God with this idea of like, why do I even, why am I even here ifI'm going to sin every day?
You know, was I think for the first time I started being like, wow, I really look forwardto when I don't have to wrestle with my flesh anymore.
Right.
I wrestle.
I look forward to the day where one day I will look upon my savior and, and I would beglorified, right.
(21:26):
be, be made like him fully.
And, um,
And that's like a hope that's given to us in first John, right?
We will be like him because we'll see him as he is.
And um that hope is actually, there is this kind of longing that we have in our everydaylives.
(21:47):
And this lament, which makes sense, right?
Because we're still not that.
um But daily we can say Jesus, like, you know, thank you for your forgiveness, your grace,your spirits in us making me more and more like that, right?
I'm not who,
I was.
ah Sometimes when we struggle, it can feel like, I'm the same person that I was yesterday,or I'm still struggling with this now.
(22:08):
But kind of this idea uh of having that longer view of sanctification, right?
Like, well, am I the same person that I was five years ago or 10 years ago?
Then you can see a little bit more, okay, like this is how God has changed me.
This is how he
(22:29):
I am being made more like Jesus by His Spirit, by His grace.
about small steps rather than giant leaps.
And over time.
Yeah, that's right.
That's great.
Now at the end of each chapter, you write out a prayer.
And as we come to the end of this first part of the show, I was wondering, could you reador pray the prayer that you wrote that's entitled, A Prayer for When Your Best Doesn't
(23:03):
Feel
good enough.
Yes, it would be my pleasure.
A prayer for when your best doesn't feel good enough.
Gracious God, my soul blesses your name.
Thank you for forgiving all my sins and healing me, for redeeming my life from the pit andcrowning me with love and compassion.
(23:25):
You satisfy my desire with good things and renew me day by day.
From every possible view of my life, I see grace upon grace.
Lord, you have been so good to me that I wish I had an offering worthy of you.
Yet when I consider what I have, none of it seems good enough.
Still, in view of your mercy, I am compelled to bring what I have to offer myself as aliving sacrifice.
(23:50):
I offer you my worship, fill my days with thanksgiving and my mouth with your praise.
I offer my strength and service to your kingdom, in my workplace, at home, at church, inmy community and in the world.
Help me love others with all that I am and have.
Increase my love that it may abound more and more.
I offer you my weaknesses and my insufficiencies.
(24:12):
May your grace and strength be made perfect and put on display.
God, I don't have much, but everything I have, give to you.
Thank you for stooping down to receive me and my gifts so graciously.
Though my heart feels the smallness of my offering, I offer even that to you.
the sadness that I don't have more to give.
(24:33):
My broken and contrite heart, O God, you will not despise.
Be pleased to make it yours.
In Jesus' name, amen.
Amen.
Thank you, Faith.
And the Christian Book Blub Show will be back just after these, so stay tuned.
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(24:57):
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(25:18):
Hello, welcome back to the Christian Bookler show.
I've been chatting with author Faith Chang all about her book, Peace Over Perfectionbefore the break.
Now on this side of the break, Faith, we like to get to know the author a little bitbetter.
um I usually start asking people what they do for fun, but I think because I'minterviewing you over sort of an internet connection,
(25:46):
I can see behind you there's a picture which looks very similar to the cover of your book,Piece Over Perfection, but it isn't quite.
So is there a little story behind that piece of art?
Well that, yeah that was behind me for those of you who are listening.
There's this, the cover of Piece of Her Perfection is a kind of like a terracotta vasewith a plant, a green plant kind of flowing over everywhere.
(26:18):
And so that was a print that was made by the designer of the book cover who, yeah, fourpeople who were
we're getting the book and with it on to on in front of it.
I mean on it um is the verse kind of the main verse that that was behind the heart of thisbook, which is in Psalm 116 return all my soul to your rest for the Lord has dealt
(26:42):
bountifully with you.
But I love.
Yeah, I loved it.
I love the cover.
I don't have, I didn't get to choose it.
I mean I did get a say in it, but I don't make it.
I'm which I didn't want to because I'm not an artist in that way.
But
The second that I saw it, I was like, this is perfect.
I love it so much.
And so I'm really grateful for it.
That's wonderful and yes, when I first saw it I thought, it's the book cover but then Ilooked a bit closely and like, no it isn't!
(27:09):
It's like similar but different.
So, you appreciate art and that sort of thing?
Do you go to galleries and that
I do, I've learned to appreciate it more and more.
My children have inherited this artistic ability not from me, have four kids.
(27:33):
And they're just, I think they surpassed me in their ability to draw like by the time theywere four.
so, which I don't know if it speaks like to me or to them or probably both of us.
I mean, sides, but yeah, like I, it amazes me.
So I think I enjoy it for like me, uh but I also enjoy it going to bring them.
(27:57):
uh I mean, there's just amazing.
went to an art gallery with.
and in LA, the Getty Center with my, one of my daughters.
And, and, and there was this painting that she loved an impressionistic painting.
And she asked me to take a picture of it on my phone.
And I took it and I was like, this looks okay.
But then like the second she looked at the picture, she's like, ah, the green is not thesame.
(28:20):
And I was like, well, it looked the same to me.
So I don't think I have the same eye.
But those who know, like the artists are really like, yeah, yeah, you can't get it.
doesn't, I'm like, okay, I didn't know that there was a difference between what I see onmy screen and in person, but there is, and it makes so much sense, right, that there is.
But I do enjoy, yeah, I enjoy going with them.
(28:45):
No, that's good.
What other things do you enjoy doing with your children?
Uh, yeah, I think they're getting to this.
My kids are in elementary school and, and in junior high and high school, middle and high.
We have a spread and they're getting to this age of fun or not.
But I mean, they're fun in different ways and different times, but a funny age where it'slike, you know, some of the, we like games.
(29:11):
like games and where, where it's a little bit more competent, you know, they can, theycan, they can beat me now, uh, or be all close to it.
at least with a handicap, you know, give them a little bit of a advantage.
But, um, and so I think, yeah, we, we like, we like games, um, getting into, yeah, boardgames, um, game.
(29:36):
Well, my six, see this, my, I I loved this game and now my six year old's learning.
I don't know if you've ever played the game set.
It's like, find different, um, you find different like,
It's kind like a brain teaser game.
think those are the games I enjoy, like word games, brain teaser games, um where you kindof have to find a set of cards that are laid out before you um with characteristics that
(30:03):
match across the board or don't match across the board.
It's kind of hard to explain, but it's fun that they're learning these games that I lovedto play when I was younger and are still kind of like, you can still play now as an adult.
Like we played, I remember when my kids started liking to play code names, this like wordgame that's fun.
(30:23):
uh And yeah, what are the other games?
don't know.
They, some of them, they, they pull out my husband for like monopoly, monopoly.
Those games are little too long for me.
I'm kind of a sore loser.
So I don't, I don't like, I don't like investing in games where I'm like, I did all that.
bang.
That's like an old game, but we recently got them into it.
(30:46):
Um, and so, yeah.
nice.
Good.
um do you have any favorite things to eat?
Or it might be like sort of a particular kind of style of cuisine or something.
What's your favorite?
Yeah, my comfort food is probably Cantonese food.
(31:07):
So like Chinese food.
But like Hong Kong style because you China is so huge.
There's like a lot of different kinds of food.
ah
And is this, is this going to be authentic Chinese food or like, you know, the Westernversion of Chinese food?
Cause I know in the UK you go, oh, we go to a Chinese restaurant and you go there and it'sexactly the same food that you get in all the Chinese restaurants.
(31:33):
It's exactly the same.
You go to China and no one's ever heard of it, you know.
Yeah.
So, um, that, is a different category, like takeout food.
I guess that's we call it.
Like takeout Chinese food.
It's just not, it's just a different kind of food.
It's not necessarily Chinese food.
Maybe it's Chinese inspired food for American tastes, at least here.
(31:53):
Um, or not American.
mean, we're Chinese Americans.
So, uh, for, know, non Chinese tastes, guess Chinese takeout.
and so, but, um, but my kids, yeah, me and my kids, we do enjoy.
the authentic stuff, mostly because it's actually kind of hard to cook.
uh So I'm Chinese American, but, and, you know, my kids kind of have to, they're, theyhave, they love pizza.
(32:20):
We live, we live in Staten Island, New York.
There's a lot of Italian Americans, like any pizzeria that you go to is going to be goodbecause it's lasted.
It's kind of one of those things.
So I think sometimes when you go to China, you know, Chinatown, right?
It's kind of the same idea, like where there's places that's authentic, that if it'slasted,
that long, it's good.
Yeah.
(32:40):
Nice.
Nice.
Good.
What do you enjoy doing in your free time or for your leisure time?
Yeah, I'm kind of boring in this.
really do like to read.
But again, it's my kids too.
(33:00):
uh My kids are also, now I'm more and more, it's like, I'll be like, can you talk to me?
They're like in the book, like you gotta go to sleep.
And they're like reading.
And so that was me.
So we do, it's story grip.
is a real thing in the Chang household where, I just finish?
(33:20):
One of my kids has this, actually I have it too, my sister bought us all these shirtsthat's like just one more page and then it's crossed out and then a chapter and it's
crossed out and then it's like book.
So just one more book.
And so yeah, that really is kind of what we do.
We do love to read around here.
(33:41):
And do you like to read the same kind of books that you write or do you like to read stuffthat's totally different like fiction or fantasy or anything like
That's a good question.
do, I enjoy, but probably tangentially, I think you could probably see some of theinfluence of it in the way that I write, but I do enjoy good essay writing, good memoir,
(34:08):
kind of like personal essays, but also personal essays that explore a theme or maybepopular level science books.
There's this book that I read.
last year that I love, it's called An Immense World.
Have you read it?
It's about the sensory world of animals.
It's just like, and it's so well written in that it's like journalists.
think I don't write journalistically.
(34:30):
So this kind of journalistic first person kind of style where you're in the experience ofthe writer, but he's teaching you something that's always pretty fun to me too.
um And, know, like whatever fit now.
Now I'll ask my kids for recommendations for fiction books that they'll either be like,yeah, you'll like this, or they'll be reading a book and I'm like, you don't really like
(34:54):
it.
I don't think you'll like it.
It's very important for me to not be lied to in books.
Like even in stories, I really don't like betrayal or not knowing who the bad and goodguys are.
I'm really bad with suspense that way.
So I'll maybe flip to the end and find out like, just to make sure you're still good.
Um, or bad or so, so it's good to have someone screen it, you know, so that sometimesthey'll be like, you will not like this plot twist.
(35:18):
I'm like, I'm not going to read it, but a little bit sensitive that way.
But so fiction fiction too, as long as it's not too, too hard on my psyche and kind of myemotional loving.
That's great, thank you Faith.
Tea or coffee?
Tea.
Tea.
Tea with cream and sugar.
(35:40):
Yeah.
And where is the best tea place to go in?
Is it Manhattan?
New York?
Where are you placed?
Yes, I live in Staten Island, New York.
Sutton Island, yeah, where's the best tea place in Sutton Island?
I don't go, I mean, there are a lot of more and more now uh boba, bubble tea places.
(36:02):
Like some milk tea with, and so there's, you know, there are some of those like, think,Cha, Gong Cha, or yeah, so it's cheaper.
It's less expensive.
So I do get a British British British blend some so whatever I can find in my local storethat in the internet International section which to get like a British blend ah And then I
(36:27):
think it's the Hong Kong so my kid my parents are from Hong Kong So I grew up even beforelike bubble tea became a thing right before milk tea was a thing here ah That you know the
British milk, you know tea with cream and sugar But then the Hong Kong version is likesuper super strong tea
Um, it's almost like coffee.
They they were drinking coffee, like a tea version.
(36:50):
And so that's probably that, that, uh, that influence from when I was a kid.
really good, really good.
um
to your coffee for you, Matt?
it's coffee for me.
Coffee for me, although sort of mid to late afternoon, I switched to a, it's not thetraditional tea.
(37:13):
I like a peppermint tea.
It's strange.
I never thought I would, but yeah.
So, so, so it's coffee to get me going, you know, in the morning, but then sort of midafternoon, I feel that my caffeine intake is, is, has gone far enough.
So then I switched to something like a peppermint tea.
yeah.
Thank you for asking.
(37:33):
good.
Um, chocolates or sweets?
Um, so...
Or candy, I guess you'd call it.
okay.
was going to say, was like, what is a pastries probably.
I'm more like to the bread.
oh
know, I'm with you there.
(37:54):
I'm with you there.
Oh, good pastry for me.
a cinnamon, a cinnamon bun.
Oh yes.
Oh, I'll do that.
you know, any day, any day.
It's like bread out of carbs.
Yeah.
Go ahead.
oh
do too, was gonna say if my wife's with me I won't be allowed to eat it.
(38:14):
uh
She's looking out for you, looking out for
she knows how much I love carbs, it's true.
Anyway, good.
What is the Holy Spirit doing in your life at the moment?
Is he doing something or is he putting something on your heart that you feel you can sharewith our listeners today?
Yeah, what a great question.
think, I think for me, there's this, and you can see it in the theme because this is whatI did.
(38:41):
I talked about already.
It's this again, like in a deeper way, this resting and trusting in the grace of God formy life.
Uh, and for the lives of those I care about as, yeah, as I'm raising kids, as they getolder, as I serve my husband's,
pastor and we're serving in ministry.
(39:03):
We've been at our church for 15 years.
So as we look at other people's lives and we're praying for them and asking for God towork, you know, there is a sense that earlier in my life of understanding the grace of God
and forgiveness, that consistently is something I returned to.
But I think this idea of like the grace of God over the story of our lives, you know,
(39:27):
I'm already feeling some of the failures that I've had as a parent and as just mylimitations as I've served people in my church.
so I think returning to like really trusting, okay, it was reading in Psalm 180, I mean,130, 180, 130, if this calling out to God for mercy and if you kept a record of sins, who
(39:50):
could stand, right?
with you there's forgiveness and therefore you're feared.
And so this understanding of like our stories are go beyond my own ability to, to parentthe perfect way, right?
To, or even, yeah, to, to believe that not only is there forgiveness, but, um, but that asI look to my kids and as I pray for them to walk with Jesus,
(40:17):
that he will be gracious to them even in their mistakes and even in their failure.
So that's returning again and again to that.
Yeah.
That's great, Faith.
Thank you for sharing that.
Now, just before we finish, where can people find you on social media?
Can they connect you if they've got a website?
And also, where can they buy your book, Peace Over Perfection?
(40:43):
Um, I, the landing page probably that's easier to find everything is my website, keepingheart.
So keeping heart, um, dot com.
And from there, there'll be links to different social media.
I'm not super, super active on those things.
but if there's any updates, they'll come, come that way through sub stack or Instagram.
(41:06):
and yeah, the book, I think if you Google it, peace over perfection, wherever your localbooks.
Well, wherever you get your online books, some local Christian books may have it.
Or you can get it straight from the publisher, the Good Book Company, they also ship.
so, yeah, those are places where you can get
(41:27):
They've got branches all over, they?
They're based in America, the UK and Australia as well.
Good for companies.
So, the is everywhere, which is wonderful.
Well, that's fantastic.
Thank you, Faith, for joining me today on The Christian Book Blub Show.
It's been fantastic having you join us.
Well, thank you so much for having me here.
(41:50):
It's been a pleasure.
Thank you as well for listening to this episode of The Christian Book Blob.
Don't forget we come every two weeks almost.
It's twice a month.
We come on the 1st and on the 15th.
So there'll be another new episode really soon.
And so join me again then as I speak to another Christian author all about their books,their life and their faith to help you grow in your discipleship one book at a time.
(42:18):
Thank you and goodbye.
Thanks for listening to Christian Book Blurb with your host Matt McCleary.
Do give it a like, give it a share and let your friends know all about it.
We do hope to see you again soon on another Christian Book Blurb.
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