September 13, 2022 • 18 mins
Everybody I hear throws around the term "G.O.A.T" as if it's a normal, understood reality of our day. But I don't believe it is. In fact, I don't even think we should say that someone is the Greatest of All Time. Here are some of my top reasons why...
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:07):
Welcome back to another episode of Cleats Off the Couch.
And the season begins and got our predictions out.
We'll see how they go.
Now we're in a place where I get to talk, talk about and have some fun, listening to maybe some topic requests from some of you guys, as well as talking about some stuff that I enjoy having conversation about.
(00:29):
And today one of those things is about the phrase goat.
Now, we'll get to that in a second, but I just want to say thank you to everybody who's been listening, everybody who's been taking time out, maybe you've supported financially, whatever it's been.
I just want to say thank you.
I appreciate it.
As a dad, this isn't easy to do, but I enjoy the crap out of it.
(00:49):
And so I appreciate you guys giving your time as I give mine.
The Goat I hear this phrase so much greatest of all time.
Obviously, the number one place I've heard this in conversation has been basketball between LeBron James and Michael Jordan.
Some people try and toss in some Kobe and stuff like that, but in football, I think there are some general principles that apply.
(01:14):
When we talk about the phrase greatest of all time, we're saying that that singular player is the greatest player as compared to anyone else to ever play in that sport, let alone their position.
Even if we just backtrack and we just say they're the Goat talking about their position, we're saying they're the greatest to have ever played that game, even though we have a short period of time that we've seen that person play in that grand scheme of the history of the sport.
(01:49):
But we're saying that they're the greatest to have ever played at that position.
Now, one of the reasons why I take issue with the term go is because the change the evolution of sports.
If you look at basketball, if you look at football, obviously my expertise focuses on football.
(02:11):
It changes in a decade, let alone in 30 years, let alone in 50 years.
And when you look at the NFL, people like to call Tom Brady the Goat, right? Everybody calls him the Goat.
Tom Brady is a great quarterback.
I think you all would shut off the podcast right now if I didn't say that, because it's true.
(02:34):
What he's been able to do in the time that he has played the game has been great.
We could sit and argue, is it because of Bill Belichick and what he's done? Or is it because of Tom Brady and what he is able to do? Yada yada yada.
But the reality of calling someone like Tom Brady the Goat is that we completely disregard the style of play that has existed over different five year periods, decade periods, 20 year periods of football since.
(03:08):
Even if we just go back to the Super Bowl start in 1966, right? Even if we just go back then, we are making a claim about a singular person in the single time that they have played being greater than anyone else, regardless of the time in which they play.
And I know people may use this term loosely, they may not really truly care.
(03:31):
And so this might be a minutiae thing, this might be detail thing that people don't actually intend, but I am here to set this record straight.
That goat cannot exist.
The change in the game, even if you go back into the 90s, right, the difference in game compared to today, the protection of the quarterbacks, the focus of the passing game, it's completely different.
(03:53):
Go back to the 80s, go back to the think back to my parents when I grew up.
I grew up in a Miami Dolphins household.
My mom and my dad were both Miami Dolphins fans, and it was specifically because of Dan Moreno.
Dan Morenor was a great quarterback.
In fact, if you look at what he was able to do as a quarterback in the passing game in his time with this term greatest of all time, one could argue maybe he was, yeah, okay, he didn't get the hardware right.
(04:28):
Football is a team sport.
That's another reason I take issue with the greatest of all time.
How in the world are you supposed to compare one style of player to another? Offensive lineman, I'll say it right now, are the most overlooked position in the history of football, but they're the most important position in history, football.
I say that as a guy who coaches quarterback, who coaches DBS, who played receiver, and DB.
(04:54):
Listen, offensive linemen, I love you, I appreciate you, rock on.
But the quarterback could not be who they are without the offensive line.
The quarterback most of the time cannot be who they are without the right receivers.
(05:16):
And in fact, prior to the past couple of years, I will say I feel like this has changed a little.
Without a decent run capability, the quarterback can't be who they are.
Obviously, I say within the past couple of years, and maybe there were some years speckled throughout in the past where a different team, you could probably point out about not having a great run game, but being a playoff caliber, if not Super Bowl caliber team, having that run game obviously makes everything simpler, easier, and it creates a better scheme on offense, a better capability.
(05:54):
I mean, as a Pittsburgh Dealers fan, I think the past couple of years, I loved Big Ben, and I didn't buy into the media hype about, oh, he's all washed up and stuff.
Yeah, he did struggle a little with deep ball.
He focused on short passes, quick passes, without reliance from the coaches in the run game.
(06:16):
Now, obviously, they didn't do a good job of trying to shore up the offensive line.
That was a big issue when it came to him trying to get the ball out.
He was trying to get it out quick to let his athletes make a play.
I would argue that the past two years would fall more on the offensive coordinator, the head coach, the coaching staff's, inability to set things up to work with the quarterback that they had.
(06:41):
And instead they were trying to force a quarterback into what they wanted, which he couldn't be.
And so he did what he could with what he had.
And honestly, even if you look at the statistics, he may not have been able to chuck it deep, he may have lost his ability to stretch the field, but with what he was still able to do, he still had two solid seasons, his final two years.
(07:06):
If we're honest with the statistics, we could go on and on about quarterbacks, right, and how they're either really loved or really hated.
I think of Kirk Cousins, he has got to be listen to my terminology here, he has got to be the best, most hated quarterback in the history of the NFL.
Good quarterback in the history of the NFL.
(07:26):
The best, most hated good quarterback in the history of the NFL.
Statistically, that guy is a great quarterback.
And now I say watch out for it this year.
I know some people are saying MVP.
I don't think he will get MVP, but I think Minnesota's offense will have an awesome shot at taking the throne in the NFC North.
(07:47):
Justin Jefferson.
Dalvin Cook.
Irv Smith Jr.
And on defense.
If they stay healthy.
With Harrison Smith.
With Daniel Hunter.
With a couple of other pieces they have out there.
Helping young guys.
Helping to even out some of the passing game and such.
I think they're going to have an awesome shot at taking the throne this year and being a playoff team that wins games.
(08:12):
Not just gets into the playoffs at the tail end and then bye bye real quick.
It's the NFC, so a little bit weaker than the AFC, but there still are some teams that can play the game.
I mean, they all can play the game.
They're NFL teams, obviously.
Listen, I kind of mentioned in other point coaching when people talk about goat, I hear this too often and this is we're in such a day and age, and you probably agree with me or disagree with me today's day and age is classified as the age of the quarterback.
(08:42):
The penalties go in his favor, the rules of the game and the ways in which he can make plays go in his favor.
Offense is easier.
I know people will argue that one up and down and I like offense, but offense is easier when it comes to offense or defense trying to play the game at a high level.
Coaching, though, is constantly not even thought about.
(09:04):
When people mention a player like Tom Brady as the goat, are we going to forget he had Bill Belichick as a coach? The times that he didn't have Tom Brady playing, how he still had decent teams.
Obviously, we saw the likes of Jimmy G and Jacobi Brassette come out in their early careers with him.
(09:26):
The defenses, let's talk about that.
That's another point.
The defense, the defenses that you look at, I just saw a statistic ranking the other day that showed how the teams that have I think it was one of Super Bowl and how many shut outs their defense had.
(09:47):
I think that's what it is.
How many teams who have won a Super Bowl or something like that have had a shut out? And the Patriots were top of the list.
Everybody wants to talk about Tom Brady, who is a great quarterback.
They want to call him the greatest of all time.
But nobody wants to admit how good those defenses were, especially the early Super Bowls that he won, that Bill Belichick, the coaching helped put together to be able to lead them to where they were.
(10:16):
And he would let Tom Brady work.
I think he was part of help molding Tom Brady into who he is, going from the raw talent and capability that he had and being able to help shape him, into a guy who would throw disciplined, who would throw on time, who would work according to timing and scheme and understanding of the game.
(10:39):
And he helped a guy who was committed to proving everybody wrong and committed to becoming a great quarterback.
And Bill helped to shape that.
I think it was a both and situation.
I don't want anybody here thinking it was all Bill Belichick in the same way.
I don't want us always thinking it was all Tom Brady.
And this sounds like a hate episode against Tom Brady.
(11:00):
I was never a Tom Brady fan.
I'm a Pittsburgh Steelers fan.
So you can kind of put those pieces together.
But I respected his game.
He was good.
And one of the ones that really put it on for me and we can all talk about was the 28 to three comeback in the Super Bowl.
He did a phenomenal job of leading that offense.
But I will say this.
(11:20):
I will say this as well.
The Patriots defense did a phenomenal job of making adjustments at halftime.
We can't forget that three phases of that offense.
Defense, I would say special teams, just important so far, and coaching, the coaching piece.
But they've had craft and they've had good GM work and front office work over the years.
So they've had a lot of good pieces in New England.
(11:42):
But with quarterbacks, whether it's the conversation about LeBron and about Michael, we cannot compare.
If you want to make your standard about the amount of rings right.
The amount of hardware, I can understand why you would say, okay, according to who gets the most rings, tom Brady is the greatest of all time.
(12:03):
Right.
Okay.
If you want to make that your standard.
But I don't think that that is the standard.
And so that might be where we differ if you're somebody who's not agreeing with me whatsoever, because then if you think about that, wouldn't Bill Russell be the greatest basketball player of all time? Bill Russell, great player.
Wouldn't he be the greatest player of all time if he had those rings? I don't believe the ring is the indicator of being the greatest player of all time.
(12:33):
It's an indicator of being a part of a great team.
Again, team sport and football is so much about team.
Yeah, basketball is right.
You got five guys on the court who got to work together to make it happen.
But in basketball, I really feel you can have one guy take over the game, right? One guy can take over the game and the other four can be struggling, and that guy win the game.
(12:58):
He can lose too, right, we've seen that happen.
But in football, you can have a Derek Henry, right? But if you do not have help from an offensive line or play action scheme, only so much can happen.
You can keep running with the running back who can bulldoze people, who can run people over, but if all you're doing is running with Derek Henry, you stack the box, you bring everybody in and you take him down in the backfield or at the line, and he doesn't get first downs, he doesn't get touchdowns, et cetera.
(13:28):
But when you start to mix in.
You put one good guard out there.
One good offensive lineman.
Or you put out a decent quarterback to be able to work some play action.
A decent receiver.
Now you start to expand the game.
Now you start to expand the game.
And you make that other player who is great look even greater because you're able to maximize his capabilities in whatever part of the game he performs.
(13:53):
And so saying that a singular player is the greatest of all time is an untrue, incapable, unappreciative I don't know what word I'm looking for.
You can't use that phrase.
You can't use that phrase.
And so I usually do not say that phrase unless somebody is having a conversation about it.
And then it's usually to me about how I can't choose somebody, because I don't think we can compare we can't compare decades, we can't compare styles of gameplay, we can't compare the coaching, we can't compare the rest of the team, et cetera.
(14:26):
And so for me, there is no such thing as the greatest of all time.
There isn't here's where I will give a little, I'll compromise.
Do I think that we can say the greatest of their time? And now nobody wants to say the got greatest of their time.
It's not as fun as saying the goat.
But I do think you can say the greatest of their time because for the most part, there are some pieces that limit the objectionable nature of the objective nature of this, such as coaching, such as situation.
(15:00):
For example, you can look at Tom Brady's career going back to him because everybody talks about him when they talk about the goat, when they use that phrase.
You can look at Tom Brady and you can have the rest of the quarterbacks in the same time that he played put up against them.
So if you want to say he is the goat, he is the got the greatest of their time when it comes to quarterbacking while he played the game, you could probably make an argument for that.
(15:29):
I know some people think, oh, what about paint man and Yada? You can make an argument for it.
We're not going to go through all the little individual pieces, right, because you have seen, you have that capability to see how he compared to others who played the game while he played the game, similar opportunities of game style, similar opportunities of coaching, etc.
Now the ways in which it may not be comparable is when you do the whole division style of stuff, right? If we're looking at a competitive nature of a team against the entirety of a league, yes.
(16:01):
But when you're looking at division play, I know one of the big arguments that people have against Tom Brady being a great quarterback and against the Patriots having a historic run is because they played in the AFC East.
Now, I think we all, if we're objective and you look at the statistics, you can look at how the Patriots literally had minimal competition in the AFC and were basically guaranteed playoffs every year.
(16:30):
But then we saw them compete in the playoffs against high quality teams and that's where I think that argument begins to lose its steam because we saw teams like the Ravens and the Steelers, the Colts and we saw other AFC powerhouse teams lose against this so called Cupcake division winner, right.
(16:51):
And so I think that's where that begins to lose its theme.
I do think that does factor into the whole thing when you start to compare winning record histories and you compare statistics in that way because now you're looking at that weaker division and I want to look at it as a whole.
But again, I'm talking about a team.
That's the thing, I'm thinking about this as I'm talking, I'm talking about a team, I'm not talking about an individual player.
(17:12):
Let me know what you guys think with the term go.
I don't think we can say that the greatest of all time, maybe the greatest of their time, but even that I think has the tick ups that has difficulties to be able to express and regardless of the sport, you might not be a football fan, maybe you're a basketball fan, maybe you're, I don't know, tennis fans.
Serena Williams retiring this year, whatever sport it may be, tiger Woods, I don't know.
(17:35):
The greatest of all time, can it actually exist? Is it specific to certain team sports versus individual sports? I just said tennis and golf in the midst of basketball and football.
Maybe.
Maybe.
But what are some of your reasons too? Don't just clap back at me and say you're wrong, you are wrong.
(17:55):
Because I can do the same thing.
But without reasoning and argumentation, there's no reason for me to change my mind.
There's no reason for me to change my mind.
Do you think the goat can be stated? And what is your reasoning? What is your standard you hold to be able to state goat and to be able to state someone as a successful champion, as an individual? Talking about the greatest of all time.
(18:20):
The greatest individual of all time? Not the greatest team of all time or the greatest franchise of all time.
That's a whole different conversation.
Let me know.
I look forward to more conversations like this in a more topic request for you guys.
But until then, I'll see you guys in the next next one.
Have a good one.
Bye.
Welcome back to another episode of Cleats Off the Couch.
And the season begins and got our predictions out.
We'll see how they go.
Now we're in a place where I get to talk, talk about and have some fun, listening to maybe some topic requests from some of you guys, as well as talking about some stuff that I enjoy having conversation about.
(00:29):
And today one of those things is about the phrase goat.
Now, we'll get to that in a second, but I just want to say thank you to everybody who's been listening, everybody who's been taking time out, maybe you've supported financially, whatever it's been.
I just want to say thank you.
I appreciate it.
As a dad, this isn't easy to do, but I enjoy the crap out of it.
(00:49):
And so I appreciate you guys giving your time as I give mine.
The Goat I hear this phrase so much greatest of all time.
Obviously, the number one place I've heard this in conversation has been basketball between LeBron James and Michael Jordan.
Some people try and toss in some Kobe and stuff like that, but in football, I think there are some general principles that apply.
(01:14):
When we talk about the phrase greatest of all time, we're saying that that singular player is the greatest player as compared to anyone else to ever play in that sport, let alone their position.
Even if we just backtrack and we just say they're the Goat talking about their position, we're saying they're the greatest to have ever played that game, even though we have a short period of time that we've seen that person play in that grand scheme of the history of the sport.
(01:49):
But we're saying that they're the greatest to have ever played at that position.
Now, one of the reasons why I take issue with the term go is because the change the evolution of sports.
If you look at basketball, if you look at football, obviously my expertise focuses on football.
(02:11):
It changes in a decade, let alone in 30 years, let alone in 50 years.
And when you look at the NFL, people like to call Tom Brady the Goat, right? Everybody calls him the Goat.
Tom Brady is a great quarterback.
I think you all would shut off the podcast right now if I didn't say that, because it's true.
(02:34):
What he's been able to do in the time that he has played the game has been great.
We could sit and argue, is it because of Bill Belichick and what he's done? Or is it because of Tom Brady and what he is able to do? Yada yada yada.
But the reality of calling someone like Tom Brady the Goat is that we completely disregard the style of play that has existed over different five year periods, decade periods, 20 year periods of football since.
(03:08):
Even if we just go back to the Super Bowl start in 1966, right? Even if we just go back then, we are making a claim about a singular person in the single time that they have played being greater than anyone else, regardless of the time in which they play.
And I know people may use this term loosely, they may not really truly care.
(03:31):
And so this might be a minutiae thing, this might be detail thing that people don't actually intend, but I am here to set this record straight.
That goat cannot exist.
The change in the game, even if you go back into the 90s, right, the difference in game compared to today, the protection of the quarterbacks, the focus of the passing game, it's completely different.
(03:53):
Go back to the 80s, go back to the think back to my parents when I grew up.
I grew up in a Miami Dolphins household.
My mom and my dad were both Miami Dolphins fans, and it was specifically because of Dan Moreno.
Dan Morenor was a great quarterback.
In fact, if you look at what he was able to do as a quarterback in the passing game in his time with this term greatest of all time, one could argue maybe he was, yeah, okay, he didn't get the hardware right.
(04:28):
Football is a team sport.
That's another reason I take issue with the greatest of all time.
How in the world are you supposed to compare one style of player to another? Offensive lineman, I'll say it right now, are the most overlooked position in the history of football, but they're the most important position in history, football.
I say that as a guy who coaches quarterback, who coaches DBS, who played receiver, and DB.
(04:54):
Listen, offensive linemen, I love you, I appreciate you, rock on.
But the quarterback could not be who they are without the offensive line.
The quarterback most of the time cannot be who they are without the right receivers.
(05:16):
And in fact, prior to the past couple of years, I will say I feel like this has changed a little.
Without a decent run capability, the quarterback can't be who they are.
Obviously, I say within the past couple of years, and maybe there were some years speckled throughout in the past where a different team, you could probably point out about not having a great run game, but being a playoff caliber, if not Super Bowl caliber team, having that run game obviously makes everything simpler, easier, and it creates a better scheme on offense, a better capability.
(05:54):
I mean, as a Pittsburgh Dealers fan, I think the past couple of years, I loved Big Ben, and I didn't buy into the media hype about, oh, he's all washed up and stuff.
Yeah, he did struggle a little with deep ball.
He focused on short passes, quick passes, without reliance from the coaches in the run game.
(06:16):
Now, obviously, they didn't do a good job of trying to shore up the offensive line.
That was a big issue when it came to him trying to get the ball out.
He was trying to get it out quick to let his athletes make a play.
I would argue that the past two years would fall more on the offensive coordinator, the head coach, the coaching staff's, inability to set things up to work with the quarterback that they had.
(06:41):
And instead they were trying to force a quarterback into what they wanted, which he couldn't be.
And so he did what he could with what he had.
And honestly, even if you look at the statistics, he may not have been able to chuck it deep, he may have lost his ability to stretch the field, but with what he was still able to do, he still had two solid seasons, his final two years.
(07:06):
If we're honest with the statistics, we could go on and on about quarterbacks, right, and how they're either really loved or really hated.
I think of Kirk Cousins, he has got to be listen to my terminology here, he has got to be the best, most hated quarterback in the history of the NFL.
Good quarterback in the history of the NFL.
(07:26):
The best, most hated good quarterback in the history of the NFL.
Statistically, that guy is a great quarterback.
And now I say watch out for it this year.
I know some people are saying MVP.
I don't think he will get MVP, but I think Minnesota's offense will have an awesome shot at taking the throne in the NFC North.
(07:47):
Justin Jefferson.
Dalvin Cook.
Irv Smith Jr.
And on defense.
If they stay healthy.
With Harrison Smith.
With Daniel Hunter.
With a couple of other pieces they have out there.
Helping young guys.
Helping to even out some of the passing game and such.
I think they're going to have an awesome shot at taking the throne this year and being a playoff team that wins games.
(08:12):
Not just gets into the playoffs at the tail end and then bye bye real quick.
It's the NFC, so a little bit weaker than the AFC, but there still are some teams that can play the game.
I mean, they all can play the game.
They're NFL teams, obviously.
Listen, I kind of mentioned in other point coaching when people talk about goat, I hear this too often and this is we're in such a day and age, and you probably agree with me or disagree with me today's day and age is classified as the age of the quarterback.
(08:42):
The penalties go in his favor, the rules of the game and the ways in which he can make plays go in his favor.
Offense is easier.
I know people will argue that one up and down and I like offense, but offense is easier when it comes to offense or defense trying to play the game at a high level.
Coaching, though, is constantly not even thought about.
(09:04):
When people mention a player like Tom Brady as the goat, are we going to forget he had Bill Belichick as a coach? The times that he didn't have Tom Brady playing, how he still had decent teams.
Obviously, we saw the likes of Jimmy G and Jacobi Brassette come out in their early careers with him.
(09:26):
The defenses, let's talk about that.
That's another point.
The defense, the defenses that you look at, I just saw a statistic ranking the other day that showed how the teams that have I think it was one of Super Bowl and how many shut outs their defense had.
(09:47):
I think that's what it is.
How many teams who have won a Super Bowl or something like that have had a shut out? And the Patriots were top of the list.
Everybody wants to talk about Tom Brady, who is a great quarterback.
They want to call him the greatest of all time.
But nobody wants to admit how good those defenses were, especially the early Super Bowls that he won, that Bill Belichick, the coaching helped put together to be able to lead them to where they were.
(10:16):
And he would let Tom Brady work.
I think he was part of help molding Tom Brady into who he is, going from the raw talent and capability that he had and being able to help shape him, into a guy who would throw disciplined, who would throw on time, who would work according to timing and scheme and understanding of the game.
(10:39):
And he helped a guy who was committed to proving everybody wrong and committed to becoming a great quarterback.
And Bill helped to shape that.
I think it was a both and situation.
I don't want anybody here thinking it was all Bill Belichick in the same way.
I don't want us always thinking it was all Tom Brady.
And this sounds like a hate episode against Tom Brady.
(11:00):
I was never a Tom Brady fan.
I'm a Pittsburgh Steelers fan.
So you can kind of put those pieces together.
But I respected his game.
He was good.
And one of the ones that really put it on for me and we can all talk about was the 28 to three comeback in the Super Bowl.
He did a phenomenal job of leading that offense.
But I will say this.
(11:20):
I will say this as well.
The Patriots defense did a phenomenal job of making adjustments at halftime.
We can't forget that three phases of that offense.
Defense, I would say special teams, just important so far, and coaching, the coaching piece.
But they've had craft and they've had good GM work and front office work over the years.
So they've had a lot of good pieces in New England.
(11:42):
But with quarterbacks, whether it's the conversation about LeBron and about Michael, we cannot compare.
If you want to make your standard about the amount of rings right.
The amount of hardware, I can understand why you would say, okay, according to who gets the most rings, tom Brady is the greatest of all time.
(12:03):
Right.
Okay.
If you want to make that your standard.
But I don't think that that is the standard.
And so that might be where we differ if you're somebody who's not agreeing with me whatsoever, because then if you think about that, wouldn't Bill Russell be the greatest basketball player of all time? Bill Russell, great player.
Wouldn't he be the greatest player of all time if he had those rings? I don't believe the ring is the indicator of being the greatest player of all time.
(12:33):
It's an indicator of being a part of a great team.
Again, team sport and football is so much about team.
Yeah, basketball is right.
You got five guys on the court who got to work together to make it happen.
But in basketball, I really feel you can have one guy take over the game, right? One guy can take over the game and the other four can be struggling, and that guy win the game.
(12:58):
He can lose too, right, we've seen that happen.
But in football, you can have a Derek Henry, right? But if you do not have help from an offensive line or play action scheme, only so much can happen.
You can keep running with the running back who can bulldoze people, who can run people over, but if all you're doing is running with Derek Henry, you stack the box, you bring everybody in and you take him down in the backfield or at the line, and he doesn't get first downs, he doesn't get touchdowns, et cetera.
(13:28):
But when you start to mix in.
You put one good guard out there.
One good offensive lineman.
Or you put out a decent quarterback to be able to work some play action.
A decent receiver.
Now you start to expand the game.
Now you start to expand the game.
And you make that other player who is great look even greater because you're able to maximize his capabilities in whatever part of the game he performs.
(13:53):
And so saying that a singular player is the greatest of all time is an untrue, incapable, unappreciative I don't know what word I'm looking for.
You can't use that phrase.
You can't use that phrase.
And so I usually do not say that phrase unless somebody is having a conversation about it.
And then it's usually to me about how I can't choose somebody, because I don't think we can compare we can't compare decades, we can't compare styles of gameplay, we can't compare the coaching, we can't compare the rest of the team, et cetera.
(14:26):
And so for me, there is no such thing as the greatest of all time.
There isn't here's where I will give a little, I'll compromise.
Do I think that we can say the greatest of their time? And now nobody wants to say the got greatest of their time.
It's not as fun as saying the goat.
But I do think you can say the greatest of their time because for the most part, there are some pieces that limit the objectionable nature of the objective nature of this, such as coaching, such as situation.
(15:00):
For example, you can look at Tom Brady's career going back to him because everybody talks about him when they talk about the goat, when they use that phrase.
You can look at Tom Brady and you can have the rest of the quarterbacks in the same time that he played put up against them.
So if you want to say he is the goat, he is the got the greatest of their time when it comes to quarterbacking while he played the game, you could probably make an argument for that.
(15:29):
I know some people think, oh, what about paint man and Yada? You can make an argument for it.
We're not going to go through all the little individual pieces, right, because you have seen, you have that capability to see how he compared to others who played the game while he played the game, similar opportunities of game style, similar opportunities of coaching, etc.
Now the ways in which it may not be comparable is when you do the whole division style of stuff, right? If we're looking at a competitive nature of a team against the entirety of a league, yes.
(16:01):
But when you're looking at division play, I know one of the big arguments that people have against Tom Brady being a great quarterback and against the Patriots having a historic run is because they played in the AFC East.
Now, I think we all, if we're objective and you look at the statistics, you can look at how the Patriots literally had minimal competition in the AFC and were basically guaranteed playoffs every year.
(16:30):
But then we saw them compete in the playoffs against high quality teams and that's where I think that argument begins to lose its steam because we saw teams like the Ravens and the Steelers, the Colts and we saw other AFC powerhouse teams lose against this so called Cupcake division winner, right.
(16:51):
And so I think that's where that begins to lose its theme.
I do think that does factor into the whole thing when you start to compare winning record histories and you compare statistics in that way because now you're looking at that weaker division and I want to look at it as a whole.
But again, I'm talking about a team.
That's the thing, I'm thinking about this as I'm talking, I'm talking about a team, I'm not talking about an individual player.
(17:12):
Let me know what you guys think with the term go.
I don't think we can say that the greatest of all time, maybe the greatest of their time, but even that I think has the tick ups that has difficulties to be able to express and regardless of the sport, you might not be a football fan, maybe you're a basketball fan, maybe you're, I don't know, tennis fans.
Serena Williams retiring this year, whatever sport it may be, tiger Woods, I don't know.
(17:35):
The greatest of all time, can it actually exist? Is it specific to certain team sports versus individual sports? I just said tennis and golf in the midst of basketball and football.
Maybe.
Maybe.
But what are some of your reasons too? Don't just clap back at me and say you're wrong, you are wrong.
(17:55):
Because I can do the same thing.
But without reasoning and argumentation, there's no reason for me to change my mind.
There's no reason for me to change my mind.
Do you think the goat can be stated? And what is your reasoning? What is your standard you hold to be able to state goat and to be able to state someone as a successful champion, as an individual? Talking about the greatest of all time.
(18:20):
The greatest individual of all time? Not the greatest team of all time or the greatest franchise of all time.
That's a whole different conversation.
Let me know.
I look forward to more conversations like this in a more topic request for you guys.
But until then, I'll see you guys in the next next one.
Have a good one.
Bye.
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