October 15, 2024 • 53 mins
Brief Episode Description:
In this episode, Nicole Diroff and guest co-host Dr. Keisha McKenzie discuss Jewish perspectives on climate change with Joelle Novey, director of Interfaith Power & Light (DC, MD, and Northern VA), and poet Jessica Jacobs. Joelle shares insights into how her Jewish faith informs her climate work and reads from her latest poetry collection, Unalone.
For full show notes, including links and transcript, visit www.climatechangedpodcast.org
Grounding:The episode begins with a grounding moment from Jessica Jacobs, who reads her poem “Collective Nouns” from her poetry collection Unalone. The poem proposes an alternative view of Noah and the Ark story. Jessica’s evocative language offers a moment of reflection as listeners prepare to engage with the conversation.
Main Conversation:Joelle Novey shares how her Jewish faith guides her commitment to climate action, drawing from centuries of Jewish wisdom on justice and community. She highlights the importance of religious values in confronting the climate crisis, such as the Jewish principle of "pikuach nefesh" (saving a life), and how it drives her work. Joelle also discusses practical climate solutions through grassroots organizing, offering inspiring stories about her work with faith communities and environmental advocacy.
Dr. Keisha McKenzie and Nicole reflect on the stories of Noah’s Ark, addressing "small boat theology" and how climate action should include everyone, not just a select few. Together, they challenge listeners to consider how they can contribute to building a future of solidarity and collective action in response to climate change.
Next Steps:- Join a Movement: Joelle encourages listeners to join or create a movement within their community that promotes systemic climate action. To connect with others, check out Interfaith Power & Light’s national network.
- Community Organizing: Think about ways you can partner with local organizations or faith communities to amplify your climate advocacy. Collective action is powerful!
- Start a Conversation: Initiate discussions about climate change within your congregation or community, asking how they can respond with integrity and compassion.
- (Add BTS Center resources and other resources)
- All We Can Save Project
Dr. Keisha E. McKenzie, our guest co-host, s a strategist and thought leader who blends communication, religion, spirituality, and politics as tools for social change. With over sixteen years of experience in nonprofit and educational leadership across the US, Keisha’s work spans leadership facilitation, faith organizing, and development strategy. She holds a PhD in technical communication and rhetoric from Texas Tech University, where her research focused on British governmental communication about weapons of mass destruction. Dr. McKenzie is a co-host of the PRX podcast Moral Repair: A Black Exploration of Tech and is deeply committed to advancing faith-rooted justice and human dignity.
Joelle Novey is the director of Interfaith Power & Light (DC, MD, and Northern VA), where she mobilizes faith communities to engage in climate action. Joelle has a background in social studies and religion from Harvard and previously worked at Green America. Her work focuses on empowering religious communities to act on their moral obligation to protect the planet.
Jessica Jacobs is an award-winning poet and author of Unalone, a collection of poems that engage deeply with the Hebrew Bible. Her work reflects on themes of climate change, spirituality, and justice, using poetic language to draw connections between ancient stories and contemporary crises.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Nicole Diroff (00:02):
You are listening to climate changed, a podcast
about pursuing faith life andlove in a climate-changed world,
hosted by me, Nicole Diroff
Dr. Keisha McKenzie (00:13):
and me, Keisha McKenzie, climate change
features guests who deepen theconversation while also stirring
the waters.
Nicole Diroff (00:21):
The Climate Changed podcast is a project of
the BTS Center. Keisha, welcomeback as a guest co host of the
climate changed podcast. I ampsyched to catch up today.
Dr. Keisha McKenzie (00:35):
I'm excited to and really glad to see you
and hear you, but first for youlistening to this episode, we're
thrilled to share a conversationNicole had with Joelle Novie for
15 years, Joelle has served asthe director of interfaith Power
and Light for Washington, DC,Maryland and Northern Virginia.
She'll tell us about thesuccessful community organizing
(00:56):
they've done, and share somebest practices for working
collectively to address climaterelated issues.
Nicole Diroff (01:02):
You will also hear Joelle speak about her own
Jewish faith and how it groundsher in climate work. She also
brings up some powerfulinterpretations of stories from
the Hebrew Scriptures.
Dr. Keisha McKenzie (01:16):
Before the conversation, we'll offer you a
moment for grounding, and at theend of the show, we'll invite
you to consider some possiblenext steps you might take after
hearing our conversation today,
Nicole Diroff (01:30):
I can't wait to hear what you're up to these
days. How are you spending time?
Dr. Keisha McKenzie (01:37):
Well, it's been a year of reordering which
work projects I get into, howmuch mischief, whether, whether
I'm an artist again. So I've,I've really loved being able to
learn about gouache paints.They're kind of like a mash up
between acrylics andwatercolors, and so, like I've
started to do, to do somepainting on the weekends, and
(02:00):
it's just been really lovely tofall into something that doesn't
have a productivity outcomeattached to it, and to use that
art to help me see the worldaround me in a different way. So
this is be a more of a humanbeing season for me. I love it.
(02:20):
Yeah. And then second to that,we're in the second season of
moral repair, a blackexploration of tech as a
podcast. I'm a co host of withReverend Ananda Barclay, and
we're supported by PRX, aproduction company. And we get
to think about emergingtechnologies and their moral
impacts on us, how they'reshaping the world around us, and
(02:42):
whether there are resources fromour cultures that can help us
mitigate the damage they cause,amazing.
Nicole Diroff (02:48):
We'll put a link in our show notes so that
everyone listening can enjoythat really good podcast also.
Thank you. Now I don't know thisabout you. Are you a novel
reader, are you a fictionreader?
Dr. Keisha McKenzie (03:03):
I am, but I've been kind of stuck in non
fiction land for a littleseason. So if there's something
that's caught your eye, pleaseput it on my radar.
Nicole Diroff (03:13):
Yeah, I have been thinking a lot about what
stories we're telling these daysand the ways in which they tap
into the themes that I'm inconversation around with climate
change conversations, and itjust opens up this whole concept
around the arts and the wayartists are needed as leaders
(03:35):
right now. So even what youshared about doing art that
invites you, I heard it as likeinvites you to pay attention to
the world in a different way. Itfeels really, really needed. So
I'm going to tell you a littleabout the book I just finished
for my book group that meetshere in Maine. It's a book
called North Woods, written by aperson named Daniel Mason, and
(03:59):
it follows a particular place, aparticular plot of land in
Western Massachusetts, throughthrough time, through a long
amount of time, many generationsof time, and it includes all
sorts of fun. You know, there'smurders and eroticism and
(04:19):
interesting storylines. Butwhat's amazing about the book,
in terms of the conversationsI've been having, is the author
has clearly made an effort toshift the natural world from a
setting for their story to aactive protagonist character in
their story, which I love, anddoes this thing of inviting us
(04:47):
to reflect on the purpose of ourlife, which is, frankly, rather
fleeting, like there may be athing down the line that another
inhabitant of the home that welive in might. Mind and be like,
Oh, what's this? And what didthat mean? But it also it makes
us think about, oh, these thingsthat are so important to us
(05:09):
right now likely do not have thelongevity we might imagine them
too, and at the same time, theseplaces have ongoing power to
shift and change and define soanyway, that's a piece of
fiction I've been engaging with.Yeah, I've
Dr. Keisha McKenzie (05:28):
written it down because I love stories that
take that turn of as you said,moving from Earth or land as
object to Earth land ascharacter. And I love also the
humility of remembering that ourlife spans are relatively short
in the context of Earth andland. And so there's something
(05:50):
about needing to be inconversation with the unfolding
story that's happening aroundyou that you're part of, without
making your own chapter in thatstory, the entire story. Yeah,
and for that purpose, that's whywe need each other, and that's
why we need to be able to tellstories and pass them down. So
after our individual lifespan,somebody else can learn,
(06:11):
somebody else can be surprised,somebody else can argue with us,
you know. And I think that's thestory of community across time
that's captivating to me,beautiful.
Nicole Diroff (06:22):
Our grounding today, before we get the
conversation I had with JoelleNovi, picks up on this theme of
needing artists today, in eachepisode of climate changed, we
provide a space to clear ourheads from the busyness of the
day and center ourselves fortoday's grounding, Jessica
(06:45):
Jacobs will share from her newcollection of poetry unalone.
These are poems created inconversation with the book of
Genesis.
Jessica Jacobs (06:57):
This poem begins with an epigraph from Reuters,
which is talking about theUnited Nations Human Rights
Council Report on climate changeand poverty. And it says simply,
in climate apartheid, Rich willsave themselves while poor
suffer. And the only other thingthat you should know which is
(07:21):
really powerful is the fact thatthe Hebrew word Teva, which is
almost all the time translatedas the word Ark, can also mean
word collective nouns, when Noahwas still just a man, not yet
(07:41):
sailor and Savior. God said,make yourself a word for I have
decided to silence all flesh,scraping muscle from a hide his
wife crouched nearby, listening,without argument or question
(08:02):
without a single signal ofwarning to neighbors or friends
her husband that little wind uptoy God's docile errand boy
complied. He built the word tospeck big enough to hold two of
every creature, but too smallfor her mother, too small for
(08:26):
her brother, no matter how shewept from planks of gopher wood
smeared with pitch, Noah builtthe word and God shut them up in
it water crushed down from thesky, fountained from the seas,
dissolving living dust andbreath to reefs of hushed mud
(08:51):
and Noah, a silent man in asilenced world, drifting in a
wooden word with an otter,placid as a stole across his
shoulders. Instead of talking,he lived in his hands, picking
knits, troughing food and water,always more water, tending,
(09:15):
tending to every walking,creeping winged thing, to all
beings but her, never lyingbeside her, never tasting the
taste of sleep, his tonguewithered to a husk. The dark
hold was mobbed with chitterroar and screech without
(09:37):
restraint and from outside theceaseless babble of wood and
rain she was drowning inlanguages she couldn't speak,
and he never offered her a wordof comfort when the rains
finally ended, Noah bound arope. To the rafters before the
(10:02):
Raven before the doves. Helowered himself from the words
one window a splash, and heleashed the rope to his ankle,
leaned back and let his handsfall empty, let the flood
embrace him. Grime sloughed fromhim into the waves until the
(10:24):
only animal he smelled washimself. Noah bobbed there, a
beaming buoy tethered to theword in which the future
floated, where his wife unseen,the new Eve humanity's unnamed
mother looked out from thewindow and watched as he gave
(10:46):
himself to the killing waters.Looked past him, trying not to
think of the death and rot thatbrothed him. Is a man good. She
wondered, who can construct aword large enough for only a
chosen few, and now, no matterwhat promise once rainbowed The
(11:12):
sky before the world is againsilenced. The water and weather
already rising, already tearingthe roofs from the poorest among
us, instead of floatingunnoticing past those taken by
the tides, can't we build apeaceful fleet lashed by syntax
(11:37):
and Spring lines into a sentenceof survival words that recognize
that welcome not just some, butall.
Nicole Diroff (11:51):
Thank you, Jessica. That was poet Jessica
Jacobs reading her poemcollective nouns. It appears in
her book of poetry entitledunalone. Learn more about
Jessica at her website, Jessicalgjacobs.com that's Jessica
lgjacobs.com we will have thislink in our show
(12:16):
notes@climatechangedpodcast.orgyou
Dr. Keisha McKenzie (12:23):
Nicole, I think we're almost ready to hear
your conversation with JoelleNovie. Joelle has been serving
as the Director of interfaithPower and Light for DC, Maryland
and Northern Virginia since 2009she strongly believes in the
potential of faith communitiesin the climate movement.
Nicole Diroff (12:39):
Joelle grew up in Baltimore and is actively
involved in various Jewishcommunities in DC. She loves to
engage with people from allwalks of life and all ages in
conversations around the climatecrisis and ways we can each
contribute to protecting ourworld.
Dr. Keisha McKenzie (12:58):
Prior to joining interfaith Power and
Light. Joelle worked at GreenAmerica and served as a hospital
chaplain. She holds a BA insocial studies from Harvard with
a minor in the study ofreligion. Joelles cohousing
building is LEED silvercertified, and will soon be
powered by solar energy. AfterNicole's conversation with
(13:19):
Joelle, Nicole and I will carryon the discussion. Enjoy.
Nicole Diroff (13:29):
How would you describe the path that led you
to a place of leadership in theclimate movement?
Joelle Novey (13:36):
It always seemed to me from being a kid listening
in Hebrew school at kazakhmunacongregation, that religious
ideas were really radical, andthat if we took them seriously,
we would be really we would betotally different, like even
just the basic idea that everyperson is made in the divine
image is would have to transformthe way we are and the way our
(13:59):
society is. That's very, veryserious kid.
Unknown (14:03):
Yeah,
Joelle Novey (14:04):
I was really listening the question of, what
would it really look like totake these ideas seriously and
live them out in the world weencounter and find ourselves in
has been the driving question ofmy life. Yeah, I had a lot of
experiences in college, andshortly afterwards,
experimenting with creatingJewish community that expressed
(14:28):
our values and put the work forsocial justice at the center of
the community. I at one pointwith a community I helped found
invented the term DEVAR Tikkun.So a Davar Torah is a word of,
like a little sermon, a littlething of Torah and Tikkun is
this idea of repair that isassociated with social justice
(14:49):
work. So a DEVAR Tikkun is likeputting, you know, in place of
the sermon, an organizationdoing good work coming to the
congregation
Nicole Diroff (14:58):
for you in. Engaging with your own community
and making meaning from your owntradition. In these times, where
do you where do you turn withinJewish tradition to make
meaning?
Joelle Novey (15:13):
The series of texts that I keep returning to
to talk about why I'm calledfrom Jewish tradition to do this
work are were assembled this wayby Rabbi Fred sherlin Deb, one
of my teachers, and it has to dowith a discourse about when we
(15:34):
can violate the Sabbath, theShabbat rules in order to save
the life of someone who's sick.So the rabbis took Shabbat
prohibitions, things you can'tdo on the day of rest, very
seriously. And so the thequestion of when you when we are
required to violate those rulesand prioritize instead saving
(15:56):
life, you know, really sayssomething about how highly they
value saving life. This is adialectical tradition that's in
conversation over generationsthrough multiple commentaries.
So I'm going to just recount alittle bit of the back and
forth. Maimonides says, a sickperson in danger, we attend to
all their needs on Shabbat atthe advice of a skilled local
(16:17):
healer. In other words, if adoctor says it's necessary, but
subsequently sort of makes it ayou know, maybe there's not
scientific consensus. What ifone doctor says to but another
doctor says there's no need, andthey say, Well, we still violate
Shabbat for them, since evendoubtful danger to human life
pushes aside Shabbat, and thensubsequent commentary, the tour
(16:40):
expands it further and says, wedon't need an expert to tell us
it's necessary, even with nobuddy there to assure us that
it's necessary to violateShabbat to save the person's
life. Even doubtful danger tohuman life makes the law
lenient. It's forbidden to delaythe treatment of the person who
is sick. And yosuf karo, MiddleAges adds one more. He says, The
(17:01):
one who rushes to do this, theone who rushes to take action in
a case of an uncertain case ofdanger to human life, is
praiseworthy, but the person whostops to futz around and ask
more questions and delay is amurderer. So what I get from
this, this conversation, in mytradition, is a is what I try to
(17:23):
embody in my own work, which isa fierce spirit of intervention
when life may be at stake. Andit's not that we have every
question answered already. It'snot that there is not great
uncertainty about the outcome ofmany questions in the climate
crisis, but it is our we arecalled to be fiercely, you know,
(17:45):
warriors for life and protectorsof life, you know, like mama
bear energy where we, you know,protect life ferociously. That,
to me, is the that is, that thethe intention or orientation of
spirit of Jewish tradition thatI try to bring to this world.
Yeah, bring to this worldbeautiful. And thank you so much
(18:05):
for introducing our listeners tothe way Jewish theology works,
which is layer upon layer ofdifferent interpretations. It is
different than Christian biblestudy of I've engaged with it
and something that I so deeplyappreciate about Jewish brothers
and sisters, our ancestors, whowrote stories like The Noah
(18:29):
story, or say, you know, there'sa prayer in our tradition from,
I think it's Deuteronomy thatsays, you know, if you listen,
God will make the rainfall andthe crops rise. And if you if
you don't listen, then, then Godwill not and all of these texts
convey a world in which ourancestors could not imagine, a
world in which anyone but Godcould mess with the weather
(18:52):
amazing, right? And we'veinherited the that worldview,
but, but we know that we are nowfor the first time, you know, in
a world in which human beingsare driving the climate system,
right? Likewise, all of ourtraditions have a cycle of
seasons and an agriculturalcycle of, you know, rainfall and
(19:12):
and crop growth and andrejuvenation that that is
basically unmoored now byclimate crisis. And I would
suggest that that feeling ofseparateness that we now
experience is a lie, amen, andit's and it's the lie we have to
fix and address and correct inorder to repair our climate. One
(19:35):
text from Pope Francis,encyclical Laudato Si, that I
have shared with many faithcommunities. He's actually
quoting the previous pope, PopeBenedict. He says, our external
deserts are expanding becauseour internal deserts have become
so vast. Wow. In other words,diagnosing the climate crisis
(19:56):
and the impacts that we seeoutside of ourselves. In the
natural world, in the errors ofour own spirituality, our own
hearts, our own mistakes ashuman beings. And I have tried
to challenge faith communities,particularly because I think we
all have a tendency to try tolook for the we have to look for
(20:18):
the blame for climate change, atsomeone else, at another
country, at our neighbors. Butwhen I try to say, could you
diagnose the spiritual errorsthat are making the climate
crisis possible in the spirituallife of this community, you
know, that's an that's anintense question, but it's one
that points our attention in theright place. I think that this
(20:38):
sense of separateness that wecan just burn up fuels and pour
the, you know, heat trappingpollution into the atmosphere
indefinitely, withoutconsequence, that we can frack
like, you know, squirt chemicalsdirectly into the groundwater
and like expect that not toaffect us ever. This is false,
(21:01):
and it's a false belief that iscausing the climate crisis, but
it's also causing suffering forus because we are disconnected
from, you know, from the realityof our interdependence with each
other. There's a teaching aroundwaste that says there is no away
like we we say, hmm, let's throwthat away. Yeah, right. We, if
(21:23):
we understand the earth to befinite and all of the all
people's home places to havesacred value, then, like,
wherever that trash is gettingtaken is not away to whoever is
having to live around it. And sowe need to get away from the
get, so to speak, get away fromthe idea of of there being away.
And this this summer, we had anew experience for me living on
(21:45):
the East Coast, which waswildfire smoke affecting us for
several days in a row, I've beendeeply affected by the teachings
of Rabbi Julia watts, Belzer atGeorgetown, who invites us to
look again at the story of Noahand the ark, which which she
(22:06):
believes has become sort of ourdominant mental frame for
surviving climate catastrophe,into ecological crisis, and
invites us to think about all ofthe assumptions built into that
boat, that little boat that thatare really problematic, you
know, the idea that there's onlya few spots out, the idea that
(22:28):
that we were going to, you know,it's, she's also a disability
activist, and like, the ideathat we're going to choose two
perfect specimens by, you know,is sort of eugenicist, and that
there's that we're gonna serve.We're gonna basically accept the
destruction of the world andjust satisfy ourselves with a
little remnant making it outalso all of our child you know,
(22:52):
whimsical, childlike art aboutNoah's Ark, right? Kind of
focuses on the boat and not thislike context of massive right
loss and suffering anddestruction and and the implicit
framing is that we made it onthat we we're on the boat with
them, and the idea that there'sa, it's a zero sum game, like
there's only a certain number ofseats on the boat, and you will
(23:14):
get on at someone else'sexpense, and you should elbow
people out of the way to getthere. All of that Miss, I
think, is misaligned with whatis we're called to do in this
time. Yeah,
Nicole Diroff (23:25):
and I vote, just to say, I have always really
struggled to teach that story tokids. And it's one that's like,
expected to be teach, to betaught, because the image of two
elephants followed by twogiraffes followed by two lions
going on to some arc is like,you know, meant to inspire
children to love God. But thebigger context is really
(23:47):
problematic. And it is on thescale that we indeed are facing
on some levels that that there,there is massive, planetary,
wide kind of chaos going on. The
Joelle Novey (24:01):
invitation is to think about why we asked this
such a small question. I call itlike a small boat. It's like a
small boat theology, it's like,it's like, once you build this
tiny vessel that's inadequate tothe task, asking who gets to go
on is the wrong question. Like,let's start at the beginning and
ask, let's save everyone. Let'ssave everything we can. Let's
save all that is sacred. Let'sappreciate and protect all of
(24:25):
us. Like, what if we savedeverything we can? There's a
book, a book of essays that Ilove called all that we can
save. Like, let's save all thatwe can save. Really thinking
about getting through theclimate crisis to something
better requires contradictingthe thinking that got us here,
and the way to do that, and theway to do that is to ask a
(24:46):
question that starts from thesanctity of all that is and
saying, how do we all worktogether to save all that is
sacred?
Nicole Diroff (24:56):
Amen, I feel like where you started. In terms of
taking religious tradition andthought seriously, and the way
in which that implies divinitywrapped into everything,
sacredness wrapped intoeverything, and having that as a
starting place for understandingthe common good is,
(25:18):
is beautiful. I love it. Whatdoes Do you have a
story for us? What doessolidarity look like? What does
thinking about, not just ourown, getting on some boat to
save ourselves? What doessolidarity? Have you seen it?
(25:41):
What are we aspiring to?
Joelle Novey (25:43):
The work we've been doing with congregations in
the District of Columbia aroundgas really has illustrated, for
me, the potential of movementbuilding because so we are
working together with Washingtoninterfaith network and DC Sierra
Club in a group called Beyondgas DC. And the first thing we
(26:08):
did was we had differentcongregations go around their
communities with handheldmethane detectors and just
measure the leaks anywhere thatgas in the pipes, in the ground,
underneath an aging city, it'sleaking. It's not just one or
two. It's like everywhere. Andit was not just in the nice
parts of town or the poor partsof town. We demonstrated there
(26:31):
were hundreds of gas leaks underevery part of DC, and it was
powerful. Muslim boy scouts didit. My Rabbi did it. Lots of
different folks in differentneighborhoods measured this
themselves and then combined thedata together to make a case to
the DC council that we have aproblem. The groups that are
brought together by this work,Washington interfaith network is
(26:52):
worried about blackhomeownership in the district
and preserving healthy homes forDCS longtime residents. IPL,
historically is, you know,focused on climate justice and
addressing methane as a climatesuper polluter. Right now, we've
been fighting for somethingcalled the Healthy Homes act
that would allow low andmoderate income DC households to
(27:15):
electrify and we're going tohave hearings in the coming
month, and hopefully it will become law inshallah and the
other, the other sort of hand,hands on. Thing we've been doing
around gas is measuring thepollution in our kitchens when
we're burning gas burningstoves. So again, this is
something that is, is true ofanyone in the in the city, you
(27:39):
know, in very different kinds ofhomes, very different kinds of
neighborhoods. We are allmeasuring dangerous pollution, I
should say, unhealthy levels ofnitrogen dioxide when we're
cooking over gas burning flame,being able to connect what we're
seeing in our own neighborhoodsand communities with what other
(27:59):
people in other faith traditionsand other kinds of neighborhoods
are experiencing in their ownhomes, has really built this
amazing movement for strongerelectrification policy in the
district.
Nicole Diroff (28:12):
Thank you for sharing that example of
solidarity that went toresearching and studying and
being curious and doing citizenscience together as solidarity.
I feel like that's rarely thestory that I hear when I ask
that question. We're insolidarity because we're being
citizen scientists together, andwe're coming to better
(28:35):
understand what we're upagainst, and then it makes it
that much easier to standtogether in asking for
something. I love that as thebeginning place
Joelle Novey (28:46):
the gas fight has really been transformative to
our ability to imagine workingin much bigger coalitions for
change.
Nicole Diroff (28:54):
I mean, we use this language of movements, and
you reference movement building.Sometimes we talk about
grassroots movements, and Iwonder for you, as you play with
that idea of of what does thatmean? What do we mean when we
talk about a grassrootsmovement? What inspires that
Joelle Novey (29:21):
too many folks, when we talk about taking action
on climate change, theirattention turns to whether they
recycle everything they could,changing out their light bulbs,
composting more or composting atall. So many of these folks, I
just want to say we are not in aclimate crisis because you
didn't recycle that thing. Weare in a climate crisis because
(29:46):
industrial polluters have beenallowed to, like despoil and
damage our one planet withoutconsequence or accountability
for 150 years. The only way tochallenge a global problem. And
that kind of adversary at scaleis to build a movement larger
than they are. I really havebeen pushing over and over
(30:09):
again, asking every faithcommunity we work with to think
about what they can do to bepart of a larger movement for
systemic change and to holdpolluters accountable and to
change laws. I say that for afew reasons. One, it's it's of a
piece with the other values thatbring them to this work. The
same reason you would put upsolar panels on your own
building, because you don't wantcoal fired, or, you know, fossil
(30:32):
fuel fired energy to like lightthe sanctuary where you pray to
the Creator. That's the exactsame values that would bring you
to testify for a strong cleanenergy law in Maryland or for an
all electric building code inthe District of Columbia. So
first of all, it's just, Ireally try to invite folks to
say you're already the personyou need to be to get involved
(30:53):
on these policy questions,because it's the same values.
It's not like advocacy is not aspecial other thing. It's the
same thing. Yeah, yeah. Theother the other thing that I
invite folks to notice is thatclimate crisis can feel so
overwhelming because the scalefeels so much beyond what we can
(31:14):
do as one person joining a hugemovement, and it's getting
bigger every day. Is the way tofeel like you're part of
something big enough that itcould really matter, and that's
how you find hope. It in thescale of the climate crisis, is
by joining a large movement.
Nicole Diroff (31:29):
I do think the blessings are so for me, they're
so relational, which is, whichis the counter to the loneliness
that you talked about thedesert, like way of being,
Joelle Novey (31:41):
and I think it's also a call to do the work in
ways that are inclusive andkind, right, like that. It's
Matt It matters what we'refighting for, but it also
matters how we how we conductthat fight, and if we fight in a
way that affirms everyone'shumanity, honors our need for
rest and joy. I also thinkpeople want to join a movement
(32:02):
that is fun, we've been dancingthe Electric Slide outside of
council chambers in support ofall electric building codes,
amazing and getting peopleexcited about electrification. A
couple weeks ago, we werespeaking out for a bill that
would help Marylanders get offtheir gas burning appliances.
(32:24):
And we were trying to drive homethe idea that burning a fire
inside your house is kind of oldfashioned. And so we all dressed
up as the Flintstones, and I gotmy whole team to join me with
this concept and and we said,you know, burning fuel indoors
is like stone age technology,but we can all do better in 2024
Nicole Diroff (32:46):
I love it. This piece about joy. It matters to
me that I am a parent right now,and you and I share mama
identities and have had a chanceto talk a little about why being
a parent makes this work so sopoignant for you. I wonder what
(33:11):
your children teach you, remindyou keep your centered around as
you do this work.
Joelle Novey (33:19):
I thought you might ask me about this, and I
will try not to cry. In thinkingthrough how I would answer, I
kept getting teary. Yeah, so theI once heard a podcast in the
last year or two by one of thewomen fighting the mountain
valley pipeline that's going togo cause a lot of damage and is
very foolish through Appalachia,and it's been a long, long
(33:42):
fight. At one point, SenatorManchin personally intervened to
have Congress, you know,override local decisions. Wow.
So that so that the pipelinecould go back on, get the
pipeline back on track once ithad been canceled. The quote of
hers, that was the headline ofthe podcast, was, at least mom
tried. Yeah, yeah. I have a nineyear old right now and a five
(34:05):
year old, and I've taken them toso many rallies and protests,
tree plantings, solardedications at every kind of
faith community. Just recently,we did a trash pickup with the
Sikh community, and they got ecoseek T shirts. Lovely. You know,
it breaks my heart when I thinkabout the future they face, no
(34:27):
matter what we do or what I do,will be a stormier, yeah,
future, but I think they willknow in their bones that mom
tried and that they were lovedand worth fighting for. That's
the gift that's mine to givethem. Yeah, let's fight with all
we have as a testimony to ourlove. I've been very influenced
(34:48):
by the indigenous pipelinefighters in the Midwest who have
used the term protectors, thatthey're water protectors,
they're not protesters, they'reprotectors. Yes, those of us who
are trying. To repair ourdamaged climate, stop causing
all this harm to our ecosystems,like put our weapons down. Yeah,
protectors, I feel veryenergized at home and focused by
(35:13):
that identity, yeah. One of mymantras, especially now that I'm
in my mid 40s, is just to tellthe truth. Like, just tell the
truth. Sometimes there's goodreasons not to tell the truth,
but like, Plan A is tell thetruth. Yeah. Always tell Yeah. I
invite everyone listening tothink about what is the one
(35:34):
community you're a part of,where people care what you
think, where you're known andloved, where you have the power
to open a climate conversationand ask, What would our
communities responding toclimate change with integrity
and compassion look like? Yeah,certainly, many, many places
around the country haveinterfaith Power and Light
affiliates. I welcome folks togo to go to the national website
(35:57):
and find the map and see ifthere's an IPL in your the place
you live. But there's many, manygrassroots groups. People always
ask climate activist BillMcKibben, what's the one thing I
can do as just one person to andhe doesn't like that question,
so he started saying, Don't bejust one person. Join a group.
(36:18):
Join a group. Get on a listserv,whether it's the local Sierra
Club, you know, a grassrootsorganization or a faith based
group that is going to call youto action over and over again,
that's going to be yourcompanions on the journey, not
not just a one time thing.
Nicole Diroff (36:36):
Beautiful Joelle, may you be blessed. May your
organization be blessed in thisreally good and important work
in in these times.
Joelle Novey (36:49):
Thank you so much. You
Dr. Keisha McKenzie (37:06):
I love that the theme of Noah's ark came up
in your conversation withJoelle. I recently rewatched
Darren Aronofsky film version ofthe story I've always loved it
as different as it is from theversion of the story that I grew
up with, maybe because it'sdifferent and also because it's
rooted in Jewish tradition andnot just Christian tradition. I
(37:30):
think I was struck immediatelyby the theme of, what do we do
when the world ends, and how dowe endure the cataclysm and the
trauma of losing almosteverybody and everything, yeah,
and that's certainly not thestory that you get with the
little felt figures of the twogiraffes and the two lions, you
(37:52):
know, when you're a kid. But Ilove it for when it came to me,
I was also learning about therole of religious people in the
Rwandan genocide, and I waslearning about pending climate
catastrophe for people in smallislands and my family were
Islanders, and my family'sJamaican to see the story not
(38:13):
only as a story about covenant,which is one of the ways I
learned it even only aboutclimate or ecological
responsibility, which is anotherway I've heard it, but to think
about it as a trauma story and astory that challenges us to
think about how we navigatetrauma, not just as isolated
(38:34):
individuals, but as a collectivelike I think that's a really
helpful way to re engage thatnarrative as complicated as
you're right, it's a it's atough story to sell.
Nicole Diroff (38:45):
Looking at it that way is where the critique
of, as Joelle calls it kind ofsmall boat theology, where it's
about the selecting of who getson and who's saved, which feels
like a limited number, yes,yeah. I think my favorite part
(39:06):
of what Joelle shared was thisquick line she said about
imagining who is going to leadthe chance that keep us together
as we face to use your languageas we face the end of the world,
as we face really significanttrauma. It brings me back to the
(39:28):
role of artists in communityorganizing that actually what we
need is is CHANT LEADERS andmusicians and so much more than
what I think we typically thinkabout in terms of who's engaged
in climate work
Dr. Keisha McKenzie (39:47):
that resonates with me, because I
think there's two sides to thecataclysm. There's going through
it, and there's livingafterwards and building
something new. Yeah, for both ofthose experiences, you. Need
people to lead some chants. Youneed the people who will lead
the grief chance, and you needthe people who will lead the we
(40:07):
made it chance, and we're gonnamake this chant. I think I
resonate with the frame of weget to save all that is sacred.
Yeah, she she said that
I resonate with it only if theanswer to who's sacred is all of
(40:29):
us right, because that's part ofthe problem of the old story as
told, the only ones worth savingwere the eight on the boat and
the animals. Yeah, like we'renot the rich billionaires who
are trying to craft the capsulethat takes only a favorite few
to Mars like we're not. We'renot doing that. That's not where
we're putting our moralimagination. And so if the
(40:50):
answer to all who are sacred isall of us, then let the poets
and the song writers and thevisual artists and the graphic
designers and the policy makerswho are making art of their own,
even if not conventional, becaptured by that sacredness as
well. Like that's my deepesthope, yeah, that that our
(41:13):
politics and our theology andthe way that we structure our
community groups is shaped by asense of the sacredness of all
life, not just all human life,but like all life, because we
know what the world looks likewhen we don't have that
mentality, when when it is justabout the small group, the small
(41:35):
boat, yeah, the outcome of thosepolicies, we're already living
in that reality, and it's anightmare for many of us. It's
like, how can we craft adifferent dream? Is what I
wonder.
Nicole Diroff (41:47):
Yeah, beautiful. It makes me think about a way of
community organizing that ismaybe different than what I've
experienced in some settings,that has felt very driven by
outcome, sort of, you know,we're getting together because
of this thing we need to change.And that's very clear. And here
(42:09):
we go, which can be cool, but itmakes me think of being together
in a particular place andasking, what is it like to be
you in this place and imagining,not only asking that question of
the humans, but if we can attuneourselves to pay attention to
(42:30):
also, what might this be likefor some of our more than human
kin?
Dr. Keisha McKenzie (42:37):
That's a beautiful question, and I I have
written it down, because I'll betaking it with me this week for
sure. But as you say, like tolisten to that question from not
just other people, but alsoother species. I think of
Barbara kingsolvers writing, andI read one of her books last
year sometime that was one ofthe features that just
(42:57):
captivated me about it, not justthe texture of description, and
she puts you in place, but shealso helps us to see from the
perspective of the wolf or thecoyote or the, you know, the
tree or the bird or the snake,and to be able to drop out of
our particular vantage pointbeing one of The dominant
(43:19):
species on these planets, onthis planet, I think we
sometimes forget there are othereyes that are seeing this world
and maybe other wisdoms that wecan draw from
Nicole Diroff (43:30):
Yeah, and others who are concerned about the
state of the planet and perhapsenacting their own response to
that yeah,
Dr. Keisha McKenzie (43:41):
which, for me, reminds me of how Nara
responded to his distress, whichwas actually to withdraw from
conventional culture and fallinto wine. I don't recommend
that as a solution, but a lot ofpeople, when they're going
through grief, do pull away. Andso I think it's not just to be
able to notice when people arein distress and be with them in
(44:05):
that so that they can movethrough it, but it's also to
imagine we have to feel all ofour feelings, and we can't just
legislate our way out of thosefeelings. Yeah, so like the
activity and the organizing forconcrete policy outcomes
critical. And I'm so so gladthat Joelle is engaged in that
(44:28):
work. And as people do that, wealso have to supplement with
some trauma informedconversation practice. Otherwise
you don't last in that sort ofwork because it is. It can be so
intense. We're in an era when alot of the collectives that have
been formed are kind of likethose small boats and not
(44:49):
enough, not up to the task. Ifyou put it, the nationalism is
not up to the task. Theideological small group things
not up to the task. Thepolarized. Corners on social
media not up to the task. Whatcould change everything that I
came to through religion andthat other people, I think have
(45:10):
come through through perhapsphilosophy and spiritual
practice, is to constantly pushout the boundary around my
people, not just that itincludes others, but that I
recognize they were alreadyincluded, and it was my
smallness of heart that keptthem out.
Nicole Diroff (45:32):
As part of each of these conversations, we like
to close with a way for peopleto take next steps after hearing
us chat,
Dr. Keisha McKenzie (45:45):
I was thinking about joelles mention
of community very often at theend of conversations like this,
it's like, go join Sierra Clubor another existing Climate
Group. And perfectly validoption. I also wonder about the
communities that were alreadypart of, like the congregation
(46:06):
or the reading group or theknitting club or the walking
club or whatever it is, have aconversation there. Open a
discussion there, about thiswider circle, this larger story,
this ecosystem and what nextsteps that group could possibly
take to demonstrate its owncommitment to a future that we
(46:30):
can all live in. What about you,Nicole?
Nicole Diroff (46:36):
I think I'd invite listeners to take this
question of, what's it like tobe you in the place that you are
in, and ask that of someone, orperhaps a more than human being
that you're truly interested in?The answer yes, begin to form
(46:59):
those sorts of connections thatwill make us want to face the
end of the world together.
ANNA Barron, our assistantproducer of this podcast, also
has invitations for ourlisteners, Anna foreign,
Anna Barron (47:30):
music. Thanks. Nicole, you and Keisha have
(47:57):
great chemistry together, and itwas such a treat to get to hear
your reflections on theconversation you had with
Joelle, I've put together a fewmore invitations for you our
listeners. First, I want todirect you to the interfaith
Power and Light website, atInterfaith Power and light.org
(48:18):
There you will find multipleways to get easily involved. I
suggest clicking on the Findyour state button to link you to
your local chapter of IPL. Thiswill give you options for events
to attend, as well as acommunity to connect with. And
if you have the means, weencourage you to use your
(48:39):
financial privilege and donateto IPL. You can find the link to
donate on their website as well.Secondly, in the theme of
collective action, I invite youto participate in the eight
front doors challenge, which isrun by the organization called
the neighboring movement. Theyencourage you to connect with
(49:01):
people in your neighborhood andgive you action steps to do so.
Visit neighboringmovement.org tolearn more and participate in
the eight front doors challenge.We will also put the link to
this in our show notes. If youwould like to expand on the
above invitation, I would alsoinvite you to organize a food
(49:23):
and clothing drive with a few ofyour neighbors, maybe after
you've connected with them bydoing the eight front doors
challenge, put up signs aroundyour neighborhood and spread the
word, then bring the donationsyou've collected to your local
homeless shelter or anorganization helping neighbors
in need as always. If you do anyof these next steps, please feel
(49:46):
free to share them along withthis episode on your social
media, so that some of yourfriends might be able to get
involved as well. There is nopressure to do all or any of
these next steps. We just wantthese to be a resource. For you
as you figure out ways to engagein this huge and overwhelming
topic. Thanks Nicole, Keisha andJoelle for inspiring me to get
(50:09):
out and get more involved in myown community.
Nicole Diroff (50:12):
Thank you Anna, and thank you Keisha for
co-hosting with me yet again,and for this particular
conversation,
Dr. Keisha McKenzie (50:22):
you're so welcome. It's a pleasure to be
back with you on the show, andI'll be taking your question
with me this week.
Nicole Diroff (50:34):
Keisha, please let listeners know how they can
follow you and your podcast.
Dr. Keisha McKenzie (50:41):
Well, I'm still an occasional user of the
formerly Twitter so x, I'm atMcKenzie and M, A, C, K, e, n,
C, I, A, M, and it's probablyeasiest to find me by my full
name, Keisha e McKenzie onLinkedIn. Our show moral repair
at Black exploration of tech ison LinkedIn, Instagram, X and
(51:04):
all major audio platforms. Sojust plug it in wherever you
listen to shows like this one,and you'll find us. We recently
won two ambys nominations fromthe podcast Academy, which was
really encouraging. Thank you.Thank you. So thank you
listeners for joining us todayfor this episode of the climate
(51:25):
change Podcast. I'm taking awaythat call from Joelle to get and
stay connected.
Nicole Diroff (51:31):
Next month, you will hear a conversation with an
evangelical Christian pastor whoseeks to engage other
evangelicals in climate changework. Kyle mayord Scott is the
author of following Jesus in awarming world, a Christian call
to climate action. It ispublished by InterVarsity press.
Dr. Keisha McKenzie (51:51):
He joins Peterson Toscano for a
conversation about the Bible andclimate change. You'll also hear
from our other host, Ben yosuaDavis, in conversation with
Derek Western. Derek istheological training and
education coordinator atcreation justice ministries. The
episode asks the question, Whaton earth does the Bible say
about climate change? We
Nicole Diroff (52:13):
would love to hear your thoughts and responses
to our conversation, and welcomeany suggestions you have for
this show. In this episode, wediscuss the common good and
community organizers. Do youhave a story to share from your
community, or maybe you want toshare lessons you have learned
from your own experiences? Feel
Dr. Keisha McKenzie (52:36):
free to email Nicole, send your emails
to podcast at the BTScenter.org. That's podcast at
the BTS center.org you can alsocall and leave a message or text
us at the following number,207-200-6986 plus one, if you're
calling from outside the US,that number again, is
(52:59):
207-200-6986 seven, 269
Nicole Diroff (53:02):
86 the climate change podcast is produced by
Peterson Toscano and AnnaBarron. Our podcast is a project
of the BTS center in beautifulPortland, Maine. Learn about our
many online and in personprograms, as well as the many
resources we share by visitingthe BTS center.org That's the
(53:26):
BTS center.org
Dr. Keisha McKenzie (53:29):
and may we be renewed in our awe of all
creation, walk gently on ourplanet, home, treasure our
chance every day to care for oneanother and all life, and never
lose sight of the possibilitiesof tomorrow. Thank you.
You are listening to climate changed, a podcast
about pursuing faith life andlove in a climate-changed world,
hosted by me, Nicole Diroff
Dr. Keisha McKenzie (00:13):
and me, Keisha McKenzie, climate change
features guests who deepen theconversation while also stirring
the waters.
Nicole Diroff (00:21):
The Climate Changed podcast is a project of
the BTS Center. Keisha, welcomeback as a guest co host of the
climate changed podcast. I ampsyched to catch up today.
Dr. Keisha McKenzie (00:35):
I'm excited to and really glad to see you
and hear you, but first for youlistening to this episode, we're
thrilled to share a conversationNicole had with Joelle Novie for
15 years, Joelle has served asthe director of interfaith Power
and Light for Washington, DC,Maryland and Northern Virginia.
She'll tell us about thesuccessful community organizing
(00:56):
they've done, and share somebest practices for working
collectively to address climaterelated issues.
Nicole Diroff (01:02):
You will also hear Joelle speak about her own
Jewish faith and how it groundsher in climate work. She also
brings up some powerfulinterpretations of stories from
the Hebrew Scriptures.
Dr. Keisha McKenzie (01:16):
Before the conversation, we'll offer you a
moment for grounding, and at theend of the show, we'll invite
you to consider some possiblenext steps you might take after
hearing our conversation today,
Nicole Diroff (01:30):
I can't wait to hear what you're up to these
days. How are you spending time?
Dr. Keisha McKenzie (01:37):
Well, it's been a year of reordering which
work projects I get into, howmuch mischief, whether, whether
I'm an artist again. So I've,I've really loved being able to
learn about gouache paints.They're kind of like a mash up
between acrylics andwatercolors, and so, like I've
started to do, to do somepainting on the weekends, and
(02:00):
it's just been really lovely tofall into something that doesn't
have a productivity outcomeattached to it, and to use that
art to help me see the worldaround me in a different way. So
this is be a more of a humanbeing season for me. I love it.
(02:20):
Yeah. And then second to that,we're in the second season of
moral repair, a blackexploration of tech as a
podcast. I'm a co host of withReverend Ananda Barclay, and
we're supported by PRX, aproduction company. And we get
to think about emergingtechnologies and their moral
impacts on us, how they'reshaping the world around us, and
(02:42):
whether there are resources fromour cultures that can help us
mitigate the damage they cause,amazing.
Nicole Diroff (02:48):
We'll put a link in our show notes so that
everyone listening can enjoythat really good podcast also.
Thank you. Now I don't know thisabout you. Are you a novel
reader, are you a fictionreader?
Dr. Keisha McKenzie (03:03):
I am, but I've been kind of stuck in non
fiction land for a littleseason. So if there's something
that's caught your eye, pleaseput it on my radar.
Nicole Diroff (03:13):
Yeah, I have been thinking a lot about what
stories we're telling these daysand the ways in which they tap
into the themes that I'm inconversation around with climate
change conversations, and itjust opens up this whole concept
around the arts and the wayartists are needed as leaders
(03:35):
right now. So even what youshared about doing art that
invites you, I heard it as likeinvites you to pay attention to
the world in a different way. Itfeels really, really needed. So
I'm going to tell you a littleabout the book I just finished
for my book group that meetshere in Maine. It's a book
called North Woods, written by aperson named Daniel Mason, and
(03:59):
it follows a particular place, aparticular plot of land in
Western Massachusetts, throughthrough time, through a long
amount of time, many generationsof time, and it includes all
sorts of fun. You know, there'smurders and eroticism and
(04:19):
interesting storylines. Butwhat's amazing about the book,
in terms of the conversationsI've been having, is the author
has clearly made an effort toshift the natural world from a
setting for their story to aactive protagonist character in
their story, which I love, anddoes this thing of inviting us
(04:47):
to reflect on the purpose of ourlife, which is, frankly, rather
fleeting, like there may be athing down the line that another
inhabitant of the home that welive in might. Mind and be like,
Oh, what's this? And what didthat mean? But it also it makes
us think about, oh, these thingsthat are so important to us
(05:09):
right now likely do not have thelongevity we might imagine them
too, and at the same time, theseplaces have ongoing power to
shift and change and define soanyway, that's a piece of
fiction I've been engaging with.Yeah, I've
Dr. Keisha McKenzie (05:28):
written it down because I love stories that
take that turn of as you said,moving from Earth or land as
object to Earth land ascharacter. And I love also the
humility of remembering that ourlife spans are relatively short
in the context of Earth andland. And so there's something
(05:50):
about needing to be inconversation with the unfolding
story that's happening aroundyou that you're part of, without
making your own chapter in thatstory, the entire story. Yeah,
and for that purpose, that's whywe need each other, and that's
why we need to be able to tellstories and pass them down. So
after our individual lifespan,somebody else can learn,
(06:11):
somebody else can be surprised,somebody else can argue with us,
you know. And I think that's thestory of community across time
that's captivating to me,beautiful.
Nicole Diroff (06:22):
Our grounding today, before we get the
conversation I had with JoelleNovi, picks up on this theme of
needing artists today, in eachepisode of climate changed, we
provide a space to clear ourheads from the busyness of the
day and center ourselves fortoday's grounding, Jessica
(06:45):
Jacobs will share from her newcollection of poetry unalone.
These are poems created inconversation with the book of
Genesis.
Jessica Jacobs (06:57):
This poem begins with an epigraph from Reuters,
which is talking about theUnited Nations Human Rights
Council Report on climate changeand poverty. And it says simply,
in climate apartheid, Rich willsave themselves while poor
suffer. And the only other thingthat you should know which is
(07:21):
really powerful is the fact thatthe Hebrew word Teva, which is
almost all the time translatedas the word Ark, can also mean
word collective nouns, when Noahwas still just a man, not yet
(07:41):
sailor and Savior. God said,make yourself a word for I have
decided to silence all flesh,scraping muscle from a hide his
wife crouched nearby, listening,without argument or question
(08:02):
without a single signal ofwarning to neighbors or friends
her husband that little wind uptoy God's docile errand boy
complied. He built the word tospeck big enough to hold two of
every creature, but too smallfor her mother, too small for
(08:26):
her brother, no matter how shewept from planks of gopher wood
smeared with pitch, Noah builtthe word and God shut them up in
it water crushed down from thesky, fountained from the seas,
dissolving living dust andbreath to reefs of hushed mud
(08:51):
and Noah, a silent man in asilenced world, drifting in a
wooden word with an otter,placid as a stole across his
shoulders. Instead of talking,he lived in his hands, picking
knits, troughing food and water,always more water, tending,
(09:15):
tending to every walking,creeping winged thing, to all
beings but her, never lyingbeside her, never tasting the
taste of sleep, his tonguewithered to a husk. The dark
hold was mobbed with chitterroar and screech without
(09:37):
restraint and from outside theceaseless babble of wood and
rain she was drowning inlanguages she couldn't speak,
and he never offered her a wordof comfort when the rains
finally ended, Noah bound arope. To the rafters before the
(10:02):
Raven before the doves. Helowered himself from the words
one window a splash, and heleashed the rope to his ankle,
leaned back and let his handsfall empty, let the flood
embrace him. Grime sloughed fromhim into the waves until the
(10:24):
only animal he smelled washimself. Noah bobbed there, a
beaming buoy tethered to theword in which the future
floated, where his wife unseen,the new Eve humanity's unnamed
mother looked out from thewindow and watched as he gave
(10:46):
himself to the killing waters.Looked past him, trying not to
think of the death and rot thatbrothed him. Is a man good. She
wondered, who can construct aword large enough for only a
chosen few, and now, no matterwhat promise once rainbowed The
(11:12):
sky before the world is againsilenced. The water and weather
already rising, already tearingthe roofs from the poorest among
us, instead of floatingunnoticing past those taken by
the tides, can't we build apeaceful fleet lashed by syntax
(11:37):
and Spring lines into a sentenceof survival words that recognize
that welcome not just some, butall.
Nicole Diroff (11:51):
Thank you, Jessica. That was poet Jessica
Jacobs reading her poemcollective nouns. It appears in
her book of poetry entitledunalone. Learn more about
Jessica at her website, Jessicalgjacobs.com that's Jessica
lgjacobs.com we will have thislink in our show
(12:16):
notes@climatechangedpodcast.orgyou
Dr. Keisha McKenzie (12:23):
Nicole, I think we're almost ready to hear
your conversation with JoelleNovie. Joelle has been serving
as the Director of interfaithPower and Light for DC, Maryland
and Northern Virginia since 2009she strongly believes in the
potential of faith communitiesin the climate movement.
Nicole Diroff (12:39):
Joelle grew up in Baltimore and is actively
involved in various Jewishcommunities in DC. She loves to
engage with people from allwalks of life and all ages in
conversations around the climatecrisis and ways we can each
contribute to protecting ourworld.
Dr. Keisha McKenzie (12:58):
Prior to joining interfaith Power and
Light. Joelle worked at GreenAmerica and served as a hospital
chaplain. She holds a BA insocial studies from Harvard with
a minor in the study ofreligion. Joelles cohousing
building is LEED silvercertified, and will soon be
powered by solar energy. AfterNicole's conversation with
(13:19):
Joelle, Nicole and I will carryon the discussion. Enjoy.
Nicole Diroff (13:29):
How would you describe the path that led you
to a place of leadership in theclimate movement?
Joelle Novey (13:36):
It always seemed to me from being a kid listening
in Hebrew school at kazakhmunacongregation, that religious
ideas were really radical, andthat if we took them seriously,
we would be really we would betotally different, like even
just the basic idea that everyperson is made in the divine
image is would have to transformthe way we are and the way our
(13:59):
society is. That's very, veryserious kid.
Unknown (14:03):
Yeah,
Joelle Novey (14:04):
I was really listening the question of, what
would it really look like totake these ideas seriously and
live them out in the world weencounter and find ourselves in
has been the driving question ofmy life. Yeah, I had a lot of
experiences in college, andshortly afterwards,
experimenting with creatingJewish community that expressed
(14:28):
our values and put the work forsocial justice at the center of
the community. I at one pointwith a community I helped found
invented the term DEVAR Tikkun.So a Davar Torah is a word of,
like a little sermon, a littlething of Torah and Tikkun is
this idea of repair that isassociated with social justice
(14:49):
work. So a DEVAR Tikkun is likeputting, you know, in place of
the sermon, an organizationdoing good work coming to the
congregation
Nicole Diroff (14:58):
for you in. Engaging with your own community
and making meaning from your owntradition. In these times, where
do you where do you turn withinJewish tradition to make
meaning?
Joelle Novey (15:13):
The series of texts that I keep returning to
to talk about why I'm calledfrom Jewish tradition to do this
work are were assembled this wayby Rabbi Fred sherlin Deb, one
of my teachers, and it has to dowith a discourse about when we
(15:34):
can violate the Sabbath, theShabbat rules in order to save
the life of someone who's sick.So the rabbis took Shabbat
prohibitions, things you can'tdo on the day of rest, very
seriously. And so the thequestion of when you when we are
required to violate those rulesand prioritize instead saving
(15:56):
life, you know, really sayssomething about how highly they
value saving life. This is adialectical tradition that's in
conversation over generationsthrough multiple commentaries.
So I'm going to just recount alittle bit of the back and
forth. Maimonides says, a sickperson in danger, we attend to
all their needs on Shabbat atthe advice of a skilled local
(16:17):
healer. In other words, if adoctor says it's necessary, but
subsequently sort of makes it ayou know, maybe there's not
scientific consensus. What ifone doctor says to but another
doctor says there's no need, andthey say, Well, we still violate
Shabbat for them, since evendoubtful danger to human life
pushes aside Shabbat, and thensubsequent commentary, the tour
(16:40):
expands it further and says, wedon't need an expert to tell us
it's necessary, even with nobuddy there to assure us that
it's necessary to violateShabbat to save the person's
life. Even doubtful danger tohuman life makes the law
lenient. It's forbidden to delaythe treatment of the person who
is sick. And yosuf karo, MiddleAges adds one more. He says, The
(17:01):
one who rushes to do this, theone who rushes to take action in
a case of an uncertain case ofdanger to human life, is
praiseworthy, but the person whostops to futz around and ask
more questions and delay is amurderer. So what I get from
this, this conversation, in mytradition, is a is what I try to
(17:23):
embody in my own work, which isa fierce spirit of intervention
when life may be at stake. Andit's not that we have every
question answered already. It'snot that there is not great
uncertainty about the outcome ofmany questions in the climate
crisis, but it is our we arecalled to be fiercely, you know,
(17:45):
warriors for life and protectorsof life, you know, like mama
bear energy where we, you know,protect life ferociously. That,
to me, is the that is, that thethe intention or orientation of
spirit of Jewish tradition thatI try to bring to this world.
Yeah, bring to this worldbeautiful. And thank you so much
(18:05):
for introducing our listeners tothe way Jewish theology works,
which is layer upon layer ofdifferent interpretations. It is
different than Christian biblestudy of I've engaged with it
and something that I so deeplyappreciate about Jewish brothers
and sisters, our ancestors, whowrote stories like The Noah
(18:29):
story, or say, you know, there'sa prayer in our tradition from,
I think it's Deuteronomy thatsays, you know, if you listen,
God will make the rainfall andthe crops rise. And if you if
you don't listen, then, then Godwill not and all of these texts
convey a world in which ourancestors could not imagine, a
world in which anyone but Godcould mess with the weather
(18:52):
amazing, right? And we'veinherited the that worldview,
but, but we know that we are nowfor the first time, you know, in
a world in which human beingsare driving the climate system,
right? Likewise, all of ourtraditions have a cycle of
seasons and an agriculturalcycle of, you know, rainfall and
(19:12):
and crop growth and andrejuvenation that that is
basically unmoored now byclimate crisis. And I would
suggest that that feeling ofseparateness that we now
experience is a lie, amen, andit's and it's the lie we have to
fix and address and correct inorder to repair our climate. One
(19:35):
text from Pope Francis,encyclical Laudato Si, that I
have shared with many faithcommunities. He's actually
quoting the previous pope, PopeBenedict. He says, our external
deserts are expanding becauseour internal deserts have become
so vast. Wow. In other words,diagnosing the climate crisis
(19:56):
and the impacts that we seeoutside of ourselves. In the
natural world, in the errors ofour own spirituality, our own
hearts, our own mistakes ashuman beings. And I have tried
to challenge faith communities,particularly because I think we
all have a tendency to try tolook for the we have to look for
(20:18):
the blame for climate change, atsomeone else, at another
country, at our neighbors. Butwhen I try to say, could you
diagnose the spiritual errorsthat are making the climate
crisis possible in the spirituallife of this community, you
know, that's an that's anintense question, but it's one
that points our attention in theright place. I think that this
(20:38):
sense of separateness that wecan just burn up fuels and pour
the, you know, heat trappingpollution into the atmosphere
indefinitely, withoutconsequence, that we can frack
like, you know, squirt chemicalsdirectly into the groundwater
and like expect that not toaffect us ever. This is false,
(21:01):
and it's a false belief that iscausing the climate crisis, but
it's also causing suffering forus because we are disconnected
from, you know, from the realityof our interdependence with each
other. There's a teaching aroundwaste that says there is no away
like we we say, hmm, let's throwthat away. Yeah, right. We, if
(21:23):
we understand the earth to befinite and all of the all
people's home places to havesacred value, then, like,
wherever that trash is gettingtaken is not away to whoever is
having to live around it. And sowe need to get away from the
get, so to speak, get away fromthe idea of of there being away.
And this this summer, we had anew experience for me living on
(21:45):
the East Coast, which waswildfire smoke affecting us for
several days in a row, I've beendeeply affected by the teachings
of Rabbi Julia watts, Belzer atGeorgetown, who invites us to
look again at the story of Noahand the ark, which which she
(22:06):
believes has become sort of ourdominant mental frame for
surviving climate catastrophe,into ecological crisis, and
invites us to think about all ofthe assumptions built into that
boat, that little boat that thatare really problematic, you
know, the idea that there's onlya few spots out, the idea that
(22:28):
that we were going to, you know,it's, she's also a disability
activist, and like, the ideathat we're going to choose two
perfect specimens by, you know,is sort of eugenicist, and that
there's that we're gonna serve.We're gonna basically accept the
destruction of the world andjust satisfy ourselves with a
little remnant making it outalso all of our child you know,
(22:52):
whimsical, childlike art aboutNoah's Ark, right? Kind of
focuses on the boat and not thislike context of massive right
loss and suffering anddestruction and and the implicit
framing is that we made it onthat we we're on the boat with
them, and the idea that there'sa, it's a zero sum game, like
there's only a certain number ofseats on the boat, and you will
(23:14):
get on at someone else'sexpense, and you should elbow
people out of the way to getthere. All of that Miss, I
think, is misaligned with whatis we're called to do in this
time. Yeah,
Nicole Diroff (23:25):
and I vote, just to say, I have always really
struggled to teach that story tokids. And it's one that's like,
expected to be teach, to betaught, because the image of two
elephants followed by twogiraffes followed by two lions
going on to some arc is like,you know, meant to inspire
children to love God. But thebigger context is really
(23:47):
problematic. And it is on thescale that we indeed are facing
on some levels that that there,there is massive, planetary,
wide kind of chaos going on. The
Joelle Novey (24:01):
invitation is to think about why we asked this
such a small question. I call itlike a small boat. It's like a
small boat theology, it's like,it's like, once you build this
tiny vessel that's inadequate tothe task, asking who gets to go
on is the wrong question. Like,let's start at the beginning and
ask, let's save everyone. Let'ssave everything we can. Let's
save all that is sacred. Let'sappreciate and protect all of
(24:25):
us. Like, what if we savedeverything we can? There's a
book, a book of essays that Ilove called all that we can
save. Like, let's save all thatwe can save. Really thinking
about getting through theclimate crisis to something
better requires contradictingthe thinking that got us here,
and the way to do that, and theway to do that is to ask a
(24:46):
question that starts from thesanctity of all that is and
saying, how do we all worktogether to save all that is
sacred?
Nicole Diroff (24:56):
Amen, I feel like where you started. In terms of
taking religious tradition andthought seriously, and the way
in which that implies divinitywrapped into everything,
sacredness wrapped intoeverything, and having that as a
starting place for understandingthe common good is,
(25:18):
is beautiful. I love it. Whatdoes Do you have a
story for us? What doessolidarity look like? What does
thinking about, not just ourown, getting on some boat to
save ourselves? What doessolidarity? Have you seen it?
(25:41):
What are we aspiring to?
Joelle Novey (25:43):
The work we've been doing with congregations in
the District of Columbia aroundgas really has illustrated, for
me, the potential of movementbuilding because so we are
working together with Washingtoninterfaith network and DC Sierra
Club in a group called Beyondgas DC. And the first thing we
(26:08):
did was we had differentcongregations go around their
communities with handheldmethane detectors and just
measure the leaks anywhere thatgas in the pipes, in the ground,
underneath an aging city, it'sleaking. It's not just one or
two. It's like everywhere. Andit was not just in the nice
parts of town or the poor partsof town. We demonstrated there
(26:31):
were hundreds of gas leaks underevery part of DC, and it was
powerful. Muslim boy scouts didit. My Rabbi did it. Lots of
different folks in differentneighborhoods measured this
themselves and then combined thedata together to make a case to
the DC council that we have aproblem. The groups that are
brought together by this work,Washington interfaith network is
(26:52):
worried about blackhomeownership in the district
and preserving healthy homes forDCS longtime residents. IPL,
historically is, you know,focused on climate justice and
addressing methane as a climatesuper polluter. Right now, we've
been fighting for somethingcalled the Healthy Homes act
that would allow low andmoderate income DC households to
(27:15):
electrify and we're going tohave hearings in the coming
month, and hopefully it will become law inshallah and the
other, the other sort of hand,hands on. Thing we've been doing
around gas is measuring thepollution in our kitchens when
we're burning gas burningstoves. So again, this is
something that is, is true ofanyone in the in the city, you
(27:39):
know, in very different kinds ofhomes, very different kinds of
neighborhoods. We are allmeasuring dangerous pollution, I
should say, unhealthy levels ofnitrogen dioxide when we're
cooking over gas burning flame,being able to connect what we're
seeing in our own neighborhoodsand communities with what other
(27:59):
people in other faith traditionsand other kinds of neighborhoods
are experiencing in their ownhomes, has really built this
amazing movement for strongerelectrification policy in the
district.
Nicole Diroff (28:12):
Thank you for sharing that example of
solidarity that went toresearching and studying and
being curious and doing citizenscience together as solidarity.
I feel like that's rarely thestory that I hear when I ask
that question. We're insolidarity because we're being
citizen scientists together, andwe're coming to better
(28:35):
understand what we're upagainst, and then it makes it
that much easier to standtogether in asking for
something. I love that as thebeginning place
Joelle Novey (28:46):
the gas fight has really been transformative to
our ability to imagine workingin much bigger coalitions for
change.
Nicole Diroff (28:54):
I mean, we use this language of movements, and
you reference movement building.Sometimes we talk about
grassroots movements, and Iwonder for you, as you play with
that idea of of what does thatmean? What do we mean when we
talk about a grassrootsmovement? What inspires that
Joelle Novey (29:21):
too many folks, when we talk about taking action
on climate change, theirattention turns to whether they
recycle everything they could,changing out their light bulbs,
composting more or composting atall. So many of these folks, I
just want to say we are not in aclimate crisis because you
didn't recycle that thing. Weare in a climate crisis because
(29:46):
industrial polluters have beenallowed to, like despoil and
damage our one planet withoutconsequence or accountability
for 150 years. The only way tochallenge a global problem. And
that kind of adversary at scaleis to build a movement larger
than they are. I really havebeen pushing over and over
(30:09):
again, asking every faithcommunity we work with to think
about what they can do to bepart of a larger movement for
systemic change and to holdpolluters accountable and to
change laws. I say that for afew reasons. One, it's it's of a
piece with the other values thatbring them to this work. The
same reason you would put upsolar panels on your own
building, because you don't wantcoal fired, or, you know, fossil
(30:32):
fuel fired energy to like lightthe sanctuary where you pray to
the Creator. That's the exactsame values that would bring you
to testify for a strong cleanenergy law in Maryland or for an
all electric building code inthe District of Columbia. So
first of all, it's just, Ireally try to invite folks to
say you're already the personyou need to be to get involved
(30:53):
on these policy questions,because it's the same values.
It's not like advocacy is not aspecial other thing. It's the
same thing. Yeah, yeah. Theother the other thing that I
invite folks to notice is thatclimate crisis can feel so
overwhelming because the scalefeels so much beyond what we can
(31:14):
do as one person joining a hugemovement, and it's getting
bigger every day. Is the way tofeel like you're part of
something big enough that itcould really matter, and that's
how you find hope. It in thescale of the climate crisis, is
by joining a large movement.
Nicole Diroff (31:29):
I do think the blessings are so for me, they're
so relational, which is, whichis the counter to the loneliness
that you talked about thedesert, like way of being,
Joelle Novey (31:41):
and I think it's also a call to do the work in
ways that are inclusive andkind, right, like that. It's
Matt It matters what we'refighting for, but it also
matters how we how we conductthat fight, and if we fight in a
way that affirms everyone'shumanity, honors our need for
rest and joy. I also thinkpeople want to join a movement
(32:02):
that is fun, we've been dancingthe Electric Slide outside of
council chambers in support ofall electric building codes,
amazing and getting peopleexcited about electrification. A
couple weeks ago, we werespeaking out for a bill that
would help Marylanders get offtheir gas burning appliances.
(32:24):
And we were trying to drive homethe idea that burning a fire
inside your house is kind of oldfashioned. And so we all dressed
up as the Flintstones, and I gotmy whole team to join me with
this concept and and we said,you know, burning fuel indoors
is like stone age technology,but we can all do better in 2024
Nicole Diroff (32:46):
I love it. This piece about joy. It matters to
me that I am a parent right now,and you and I share mama
identities and have had a chanceto talk a little about why being
a parent makes this work so sopoignant for you. I wonder what
(33:11):
your children teach you, remindyou keep your centered around as
you do this work.
Joelle Novey (33:19):
I thought you might ask me about this, and I
will try not to cry. In thinkingthrough how I would answer, I
kept getting teary. Yeah, so theI once heard a podcast in the
last year or two by one of thewomen fighting the mountain
valley pipeline that's going togo cause a lot of damage and is
very foolish through Appalachia,and it's been a long, long
(33:42):
fight. At one point, SenatorManchin personally intervened to
have Congress, you know,override local decisions. Wow.
So that so that the pipelinecould go back on, get the
pipeline back on track once ithad been canceled. The quote of
hers, that was the headline ofthe podcast, was, at least mom
tried. Yeah, yeah. I have a nineyear old right now and a five
(34:05):
year old, and I've taken them toso many rallies and protests,
tree plantings, solardedications at every kind of
faith community. Just recently,we did a trash pickup with the
Sikh community, and they got ecoseek T shirts. Lovely. You know,
it breaks my heart when I thinkabout the future they face, no
(34:27):
matter what we do or what I do,will be a stormier, yeah,
future, but I think they willknow in their bones that mom
tried and that they were lovedand worth fighting for. That's
the gift that's mine to givethem. Yeah, let's fight with all
we have as a testimony to ourlove. I've been very influenced
(34:48):
by the indigenous pipelinefighters in the Midwest who have
used the term protectors, thatthey're water protectors,
they're not protesters, they'reprotectors. Yes, those of us who
are trying. To repair ourdamaged climate, stop causing
all this harm to our ecosystems,like put our weapons down. Yeah,
protectors, I feel veryenergized at home and focused by
(35:13):
that identity, yeah. One of mymantras, especially now that I'm
in my mid 40s, is just to tellthe truth. Like, just tell the
truth. Sometimes there's goodreasons not to tell the truth,
but like, Plan A is tell thetruth. Yeah. Always tell Yeah. I
invite everyone listening tothink about what is the one
(35:34):
community you're a part of,where people care what you
think, where you're known andloved, where you have the power
to open a climate conversationand ask, What would our
communities responding toclimate change with integrity
and compassion look like? Yeah,certainly, many, many places
around the country haveinterfaith Power and Light
affiliates. I welcome folks togo to go to the national website
(35:57):
and find the map and see ifthere's an IPL in your the place
you live. But there's many, manygrassroots groups. People always
ask climate activist BillMcKibben, what's the one thing I
can do as just one person to andhe doesn't like that question,
so he started saying, Don't bejust one person. Join a group.
(36:18):
Join a group. Get on a listserv,whether it's the local Sierra
Club, you know, a grassrootsorganization or a faith based
group that is going to call youto action over and over again,
that's going to be yourcompanions on the journey, not
not just a one time thing.
Nicole Diroff (36:36):
Beautiful Joelle, may you be blessed. May your
organization be blessed in thisreally good and important work
in in these times.
Joelle Novey (36:49):
Thank you so much. You
Dr. Keisha McKenzie (37:06):
I love that the theme of Noah's ark came up
in your conversation withJoelle. I recently rewatched
Darren Aronofsky film version ofthe story I've always loved it
as different as it is from theversion of the story that I grew
up with, maybe because it'sdifferent and also because it's
rooted in Jewish tradition andnot just Christian tradition. I
(37:30):
think I was struck immediatelyby the theme of, what do we do
when the world ends, and how dowe endure the cataclysm and the
trauma of losing almosteverybody and everything, yeah,
and that's certainly not thestory that you get with the
little felt figures of the twogiraffes and the two lions, you
(37:52):
know, when you're a kid. But Ilove it for when it came to me,
I was also learning about therole of religious people in the
Rwandan genocide, and I waslearning about pending climate
catastrophe for people in smallislands and my family were
Islanders, and my family'sJamaican to see the story not
(38:13):
only as a story about covenant,which is one of the ways I
learned it even only aboutclimate or ecological
responsibility, which is anotherway I've heard it, but to think
about it as a trauma story and astory that challenges us to
think about how we navigatetrauma, not just as isolated
(38:34):
individuals, but as a collectivelike I think that's a really
helpful way to re engage thatnarrative as complicated as
you're right, it's a it's atough story to sell.
Nicole Diroff (38:45):
Looking at it that way is where the critique
of, as Joelle calls it kind ofsmall boat theology, where it's
about the selecting of who getson and who's saved, which feels
like a limited number, yes,yeah. I think my favorite part
(39:06):
of what Joelle shared was thisquick line she said about
imagining who is going to leadthe chance that keep us together
as we face to use your languageas we face the end of the world,
as we face really significanttrauma. It brings me back to the
(39:28):
role of artists in communityorganizing that actually what we
need is is CHANT LEADERS andmusicians and so much more than
what I think we typically thinkabout in terms of who's engaged
in climate work
Dr. Keisha McKenzie (39:47):
that resonates with me, because I
think there's two sides to thecataclysm. There's going through
it, and there's livingafterwards and building
something new. Yeah, for both ofthose experiences, you. Need
people to lead some chants. Youneed the people who will lead
the grief chance, and you needthe people who will lead the we
(40:07):
made it chance, and we're gonnamake this chant. I think I
resonate with the frame of weget to save all that is sacred.
Yeah, she she said that
I resonate with it only if theanswer to who's sacred is all of
(40:29):
us right, because that's part ofthe problem of the old story as
told, the only ones worth savingwere the eight on the boat and
the animals. Yeah, like we'renot the rich billionaires who
are trying to craft the capsulethat takes only a favorite few
to Mars like we're not. We'renot doing that. That's not where
we're putting our moralimagination. And so if the
(40:50):
answer to all who are sacred isall of us, then let the poets
and the song writers and thevisual artists and the graphic
designers and the policy makerswho are making art of their own,
even if not conventional, becaptured by that sacredness as
well. Like that's my deepesthope, yeah, that that our
(41:13):
politics and our theology andthe way that we structure our
community groups is shaped by asense of the sacredness of all
life, not just all human life,but like all life, because we
know what the world looks likewhen we don't have that
mentality, when when it is justabout the small group, the small
(41:35):
boat, yeah, the outcome of thosepolicies, we're already living
in that reality, and it's anightmare for many of us. It's
like, how can we craft adifferent dream? Is what I
wonder.
Nicole Diroff (41:47):
Yeah, beautiful. It makes me think about a way of
community organizing that ismaybe different than what I've
experienced in some settings,that has felt very driven by
outcome, sort of, you know,we're getting together because
of this thing we need to change.And that's very clear. And here
(42:09):
we go, which can be cool, but itmakes me think of being together
in a particular place andasking, what is it like to be
you in this place and imagining,not only asking that question of
the humans, but if we can attuneourselves to pay attention to
(42:30):
also, what might this be likefor some of our more than human
kin?
Dr. Keisha McKenzie (42:37):
That's a beautiful question, and I I have
written it down, because I'll betaking it with me this week for
sure. But as you say, like tolisten to that question from not
just other people, but alsoother species. I think of
Barbara kingsolvers writing, andI read one of her books last
year sometime that was one ofthe features that just
(42:57):
captivated me about it, not justthe texture of description, and
she puts you in place, but shealso helps us to see from the
perspective of the wolf or thecoyote or the, you know, the
tree or the bird or the snake,and to be able to drop out of
our particular vantage pointbeing one of The dominant
(43:19):
species on these planets, onthis planet, I think we
sometimes forget there are othereyes that are seeing this world
and maybe other wisdoms that wecan draw from
Nicole Diroff (43:30):
Yeah, and others who are concerned about the
state of the planet and perhapsenacting their own response to
that yeah,
Dr. Keisha McKenzie (43:41):
which, for me, reminds me of how Nara
responded to his distress, whichwas actually to withdraw from
conventional culture and fallinto wine. I don't recommend
that as a solution, but a lot ofpeople, when they're going
through grief, do pull away. Andso I think it's not just to be
able to notice when people arein distress and be with them in
(44:05):
that so that they can movethrough it, but it's also to
imagine we have to feel all ofour feelings, and we can't just
legislate our way out of thosefeelings. Yeah, so like the
activity and the organizing forconcrete policy outcomes
critical. And I'm so so gladthat Joelle is engaged in that
(44:28):
work. And as people do that, wealso have to supplement with
some trauma informedconversation practice. Otherwise
you don't last in that sort ofwork because it is. It can be so
intense. We're in an era when alot of the collectives that have
been formed are kind of likethose small boats and not
(44:49):
enough, not up to the task. Ifyou put it, the nationalism is
not up to the task. Theideological small group things
not up to the task. Thepolarized. Corners on social
media not up to the task. Whatcould change everything that I
came to through religion andthat other people, I think have
(45:10):
come through through perhapsphilosophy and spiritual
practice, is to constantly pushout the boundary around my
people, not just that itincludes others, but that I
recognize they were alreadyincluded, and it was my
smallness of heart that keptthem out.
Nicole Diroff (45:32):
As part of each of these conversations, we like
to close with a way for peopleto take next steps after hearing
us chat,
Dr. Keisha McKenzie (45:45):
I was thinking about joelles mention
of community very often at theend of conversations like this,
it's like, go join Sierra Clubor another existing Climate
Group. And perfectly validoption. I also wonder about the
communities that were alreadypart of, like the congregation
(46:06):
or the reading group or theknitting club or the walking
club or whatever it is, have aconversation there. Open a
discussion there, about thiswider circle, this larger story,
this ecosystem and what nextsteps that group could possibly
take to demonstrate its owncommitment to a future that we
(46:30):
can all live in. What about you,Nicole?
Nicole Diroff (46:36):
I think I'd invite listeners to take this
question of, what's it like tobe you in the place that you are
in, and ask that of someone, orperhaps a more than human being
that you're truly interested in?The answer yes, begin to form
(46:59):
those sorts of connections thatwill make us want to face the
end of the world together.
ANNA Barron, our assistantproducer of this podcast, also
has invitations for ourlisteners, Anna foreign,
Anna Barron (47:30):
music. Thanks. Nicole, you and Keisha have
(47:57):
great chemistry together, and itwas such a treat to get to hear
your reflections on theconversation you had with
Joelle, I've put together a fewmore invitations for you our
listeners. First, I want todirect you to the interfaith
Power and Light website, atInterfaith Power and light.org
(48:18):
There you will find multipleways to get easily involved. I
suggest clicking on the Findyour state button to link you to
your local chapter of IPL. Thiswill give you options for events
to attend, as well as acommunity to connect with. And
if you have the means, weencourage you to use your
(48:39):
financial privilege and donateto IPL. You can find the link to
donate on their website as well.Secondly, in the theme of
collective action, I invite youto participate in the eight
front doors challenge, which isrun by the organization called
the neighboring movement. Theyencourage you to connect with
(49:01):
people in your neighborhood andgive you action steps to do so.
Visit neighboringmovement.org tolearn more and participate in
the eight front doors challenge.We will also put the link to
this in our show notes. If youwould like to expand on the
above invitation, I would alsoinvite you to organize a food
(49:23):
and clothing drive with a few ofyour neighbors, maybe after
you've connected with them bydoing the eight front doors
challenge, put up signs aroundyour neighborhood and spread the
word, then bring the donationsyou've collected to your local
homeless shelter or anorganization helping neighbors
in need as always. If you do anyof these next steps, please feel
(49:46):
free to share them along withthis episode on your social
media, so that some of yourfriends might be able to get
involved as well. There is nopressure to do all or any of
these next steps. We just wantthese to be a resource. For you
as you figure out ways to engagein this huge and overwhelming
topic. Thanks Nicole, Keisha andJoelle for inspiring me to get
(50:09):
out and get more involved in myown community.
Nicole Diroff (50:12):
Thank you Anna, and thank you Keisha for
co-hosting with me yet again,and for this particular
conversation,
Dr. Keisha McKenzie (50:22):
you're so welcome. It's a pleasure to be
back with you on the show, andI'll be taking your question
with me this week.
Nicole Diroff (50:34):
Keisha, please let listeners know how they can
follow you and your podcast.
Dr. Keisha McKenzie (50:41):
Well, I'm still an occasional user of the
formerly Twitter so x, I'm atMcKenzie and M, A, C, K, e, n,
C, I, A, M, and it's probablyeasiest to find me by my full
name, Keisha e McKenzie onLinkedIn. Our show moral repair
at Black exploration of tech ison LinkedIn, Instagram, X and
(51:04):
all major audio platforms. Sojust plug it in wherever you
listen to shows like this one,and you'll find us. We recently
won two ambys nominations fromthe podcast Academy, which was
really encouraging. Thank you.Thank you. So thank you
listeners for joining us todayfor this episode of the climate
(51:25):
change Podcast. I'm taking awaythat call from Joelle to get and
stay connected.
Nicole Diroff (51:31):
Next month, you will hear a conversation with an
evangelical Christian pastor whoseeks to engage other
evangelicals in climate changework. Kyle mayord Scott is the
author of following Jesus in awarming world, a Christian call
to climate action. It ispublished by InterVarsity press.
Dr. Keisha McKenzie (51:51):
He joins Peterson Toscano for a
conversation about the Bible andclimate change. You'll also hear
from our other host, Ben yosuaDavis, in conversation with
Derek Western. Derek istheological training and
education coordinator atcreation justice ministries. The
episode asks the question, Whaton earth does the Bible say
about climate change? We
Nicole Diroff (52:13):
would love to hear your thoughts and responses
to our conversation, and welcomeany suggestions you have for
this show. In this episode, wediscuss the common good and
community organizers. Do youhave a story to share from your
community, or maybe you want toshare lessons you have learned
from your own experiences? Feel
Dr. Keisha McKenzie (52:36):
free to email Nicole, send your emails
to podcast at the BTScenter.org. That's podcast at
the BTS center.org you can alsocall and leave a message or text
us at the following number,207-200-6986 plus one, if you're
calling from outside the US,that number again, is
(52:59):
207-200-6986 seven, 269
Nicole Diroff (53:02):
86 the climate change podcast is produced by
Peterson Toscano and AnnaBarron. Our podcast is a project
of the BTS center in beautifulPortland, Maine. Learn about our
many online and in personprograms, as well as the many
resources we share by visitingthe BTS center.org That's the
(53:26):
BTS center.org
Dr. Keisha McKenzie (53:29):
and may we be renewed in our awe of all
creation, walk gently on ourplanet, home, treasure our
chance every day to care for oneanother and all life, and never
lose sight of the possibilitiesof tomorrow. Thank you.
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