July 15, 2025 • 35 mins
How do we stay grounded in a time of climate disruption? In this special Behind the Scenes Edition, host Jessica David invites listeners into a conversation with three BTS Center colleagues—Ash Temin, Madeline Bugeau-Heartt, and Peterson Toscano. Together, they explore the importance of spiritual and embodied practices that help us stay connected, present, and resilient in our climate-changed world.
Each guest shares how they engage in grounding practices, what works for them (and what doesn’t), and what these practices offer us in the midst of fear, grief, and uncertainty. The episode features a beautiful, nature-based practice led by Ash, with more practices to come in the next two episodes.
In this episode:
- Ash invites listeners into a practice of creaturely communion.
- Madeline offers reflections on holy noticing and joyful disruption.
- Peterson talks about reclaiming the power of deep listening.
- Jessica opens up about moving beyond words into embodied presence.
Whether you’re seasoned in spiritual practice or just starting to explore, this episode offers a taste of what’s possible when we make time to slow down and notice the world around—and within—us.
🎧 Plus, stay tuned for upcoming practices led by Peterson and Madeline.
Meet the GuestsRev. Ash Temin Ash serves as the Communications Manager at The BTS Center and offers spiritual direction through her independent practice in Portland, Maine. An ordained minister in the Christian Church (Disciples of Christ), Ash is passionate about ecological theology and exploring the experience of ecological grief. She finds joy in coastal walks, creaturely companionship, and practicing connection with the more-than-human world.
Madeline Bugeau-Heartt Madeline is a Program Associate at The BTS Center. A graduate of Harvard Divinity School and NYU Tisch, she brings her background in experimental theater, farming, and caregiving into her work. Madeline is passionate about creating spaces for radical imagination, deep embodiment, and joyful resistance, especially as we navigate life in a climate-changed world.
Peterson Toscano Peterson is the producer of the Climate Changed podcast and a longtime collaborator with The BTS Center. A seasoned podcaster, performance artist, and climate communicator, he helps audiences see climate change from fresh angles. Through storytelling, satire, and sound, Peterson fosters empathy and sparks curiosity.
💌 We’d love to hear from you! Tell us about your own grounding practices. Email: podcast@thebtscenter.org Call or Text: 207-200-6986
🌐 Learn more: climatechangedpodcast.org 🔗 Visit us: thebtscenter.org
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
>> Jessica David (00:00):
Hello, friends. How do you stay
grounded when it comes to our climate catastrophe?
What keeps you connected? Seriously, I need
to know. I'm Jessica David, a Harvard Divinity
School student and intern at the BTS
Center. This is the climate Change
podcast Behind the Scenes Edition.
(00:20):
We're breaking things up over the next few episodes
with special practices designed just for you
will be guided through a, uh, contemplative or embodied
practice developed and delivered to you with
love by a member of our team. Each practice
strives to remind us that there are lots of ways
of making sense of things. Our hope is that we
(00:40):
each feel connected to something bigger and wiser than
ourselves, so we can keep showing up for today's
climate changed world. I'm joined today
by three colleagues who each bring unique gifts
and perspectives to this conversation. Hi
there.
I'm Ash Teuman, and I serve as the
communications manager at the BTS
(01:00):
Center. I'm also a spiritual director
and lover of wild
spaces.
>> Madeline Bugeau-Heartt (01:07):
And I'm Madeline Bujo Hart. I'm the
program associate at the BTS Center.
And when I'm not doing that, I'm making weird
theater with my beloved theater company and
doing, um, organizing work in my community up
in Belfast, Maine.
>> Peterson Toscano (01:23):
I'm Peterson Centoscano, and I'm even more behind the
scenes than Jessica. I work with the host
to produce each episode of Climate Changed Podcast.
I also work as an artistic consultant
creating original videos for the BTS
Center. Beyond this work, I host my own
podcast, including Bubble and Squeak,
an audio playground.
>> Jessica David (01:44):
I am so excited to be here with the three of you today.
I hope the listeners can hear it, uh, in my voice,
how much fun we're having.
So the BTS center often includes a
grounding or some kind of activity in your
programs. Why? What is it about
practice that matters?
>> Peterson Toscano (02:04):
Well, I, uh, think regardless of the practice, and there's
lots of different ones, the goal is to get out of our heads
and stop all that clatter and chatter that
is happening. So during the regular season
of this podcast, each episode begins
with a grounding. And listeners typically
don't expect this at first because it's not what
(02:24):
happens in most podcasts. But
once people start listening, they begin to look forward to
this practice. It allows them this moment
to slow down, to show up with their
ears open so that they can hear more
deeply what will be shared. Uh,
personally, I do a daily Quaker practice
of silence for five to 15 minutes. And
(02:47):
truly, some days are easier than others. But
this practice resembles how I stretch every morning to
keep my back and body limber.
This repetition makes it easier over time.
So with my muscles, I develop a muscle
memory in my very tight hamstrings.
So they are more responsive over time and they're
less tight every day.
(03:10):
Similarly, the daily silent
spiritual practice helps me settle and stay
silent faster. Like I get into it quicker
and I'm um, then better prepared for the marathon,
hour long Quaker meetings for worship.
>> Madeline Bugeau-Heartt (03:24):
I love this question of, of uh, what about
practice matters? This, this kind
of container. And I just feel so strongly that
there's a huge difference between intellectual,
heady, reason based knowing, which I think
a lot of us are very comfortable with, and
embodied knowing. And the example I have of that. And
(03:44):
I think this is like a wish that I'm having, which is I wish
I could cook a poached egg. If I read a
recipe or I read in a cookbook how to do
how to make a poached egg, I can
intellectually grasp it. But it's not until my
hand and the boiling water and the egg is in the
water that I actually know how to cook a poached egg.
I really believe that practices
(04:06):
are containers for us to live differently
and containers for alchemy, dare I
say, and transformation. And I
love what Peterson was saying about repetition.
And I think about, um, when I was a kid, I used to play the alto
saxophone big into jazz.
>> Jessica David (04:24):
Wow.
>> Madeline Bugeau-Heartt (04:24):
I thought I was great. Sometimes I'd wear a beret, which is
horrifying, while I would play, but.
But it was in the practicing of the scales
that I, by the time I had done it over the course of a
couple of years, I didn't have to think about it anymore. It was just
a part of who I was. So I just think that RePet,
um, piece is so important to this conversation about practice and
(04:45):
living differently.
>> Jessica David (04:48):
Yeah. And as you mentioned, Jessica, at
the BTS center, we start really all
of our programs with some sort of practice.
We really see all of our programs, whether it's uh, a book study
or a podcast or a public conversation,
as being spiritual and spiritually
grounded. And part of
(05:10):
really recognizing that is taking a
contemplative stance and inviting
people to step into a space
and a, uh, spaciousness that might not be
as present in their busy day to day lives.
So we have this intentional time for
arriving and grounding ourselves in community with
(05:30):
one another, dropping into a
different dimension of ourselves for a
period of time at least.
And I'll say that for me personally, that
idea of muscle memory really resonates also.
And it's about using different muscles than
I'M used to using. I spend a lot of time in
my head and being able to spend a little
(05:53):
bit of time each day bringing
practice into my body, into my
breath, into my movement, uh, uh, really
helps me to keep a broad
and open perspective on all the things that
I'm doing in my life on a.
Day to day basis.
Mhm. Yeah.
So what I'm really taking away from this, I think is, is two
(06:16):
things. One is this, you know, Ash said, dropping
into a different dimension. And it's sort of ironic that
we have to set aside
this time and, and space to do that
intentionally to sort of check in with ourselves.
But also the component of uh,
it's not just a intellectual or a mental exercise,
(06:37):
that it's checking in with the whole
of ourselves, which may include more than just our mind. And that
I think that's the piece that's the hardest for me as someone who lives
almost entirely in my mind. Checking in
mentally is not, not a challenge. But spreading
beyond that and remembering that I actually have a, um,
body exist in a world, sometimes I
(06:58):
forget to do that.
So I'm super curious. Peterson already talked
about this a little bit. Uh, uh, but what practices do you all
find meaningful in your own lives? Please tell
me all of them.
>> Peterson Toscano (07:09):
Can I tell you one I don't like? Yeah,
please, please don't hate on me for people who
like this practice. And I'm saying this because just because a certain
practice doesn't work for you doesn't mean you are spiritually inadequate.
Because I really thought I was. Because I
don't like guided meditation
at all. Um, you listening? You may love
(07:31):
it and that's beautiful and I'm really happy for
you. But for me, being told when to
breathe, what to visualize and how to
feel pulls me out of my experience. It
feels like someone else is trying to drive my inner life and
I resist rather than relax.
And truly at first I thought there was just something spiritually wrong with
(07:51):
me, like this rebellious spirit. I
was like, why is this not working? And why is everyone
loving this? It's horrible. But it turns
out it just doesn't work for me. So these
days when I'm online and this a
guided meditation starts, I just lower the
volume and slide into my own quiet place and
(08:11):
everybody's happy. But that's the key. Different
practices meet different needs. But the
question is, what practices do I find
meaningful? Well, I do well with the ones that
help me connect with my body and that
involve movement. Partly because I sit so much
and I know this is definitely one of Madeline's specialties.
>> Madeline Bugeau-Heartt (08:33):
Thank you for letting us off the hook of guided
meditations.
>> Peterson Toscano (08:38):
I was worried, I'm like, oh, maybe we don't have guided
meditations. And I just crashed.
>> Madeline Bugeau-Heartt (08:42):
We probably will. But also.
>> Jessica David (08:44):
Whatever.
>> Madeline Bugeau-Heartt (08:45):
Something for everyone.
Oh, uh, thank you so much for that.
>> Jessica David (08:49):
2.
>> Madeline Bugeau-Heartt (08:50):
Okay, here are two practices that I'm personally leaning into
these days. One I'm calling falling through the cracks.
>> Jessica David (08:55):
Mhm.
>> Madeline Bugeau-Heartt (08:56):
Or I don't know, embodying in the
cracks. And for me, this is the practice of
breaking patterns of normalcy by
practicing minor disruptions. So
often we're on autopilot. And for me that leads to
this sense of like a lack of agency. And especially in
the times we're living in, if you can just find
like strange little cracks in what you think
(09:19):
is normal, something else emerges.
I did a theater production recently and we had every single
audience member smell a big bouquet of
flowers as if it was the last
thing they would ever smell. And we had them smell
in pears.
>> Jessica David (09:33):
Which was awfully cute.
>> Madeline Bugeau-Heartt (09:35):
And it's small, right? Like, and it's not like a high
risk practice, but it was a disruption because
how often do any of us really do that?
The second practice that I try to do,
uh, sometimes, I mean, usually
I'm forgetting. But when I do remember to do this, it's a small
victory is something I call holy noticing.
And that you can do anytime, any place. And you just
(09:58):
stop yourself in any moment and just notice how the
world is noticing you and what
is happening around you, what smells
or visuals or sounds or tastes are
erupting in that particular moment.
And I like to think about it as like a symphony
of the mundane. And I like to think about
it as, as something that might be occurring
(10:21):
just for me to partake in. And suddenly this
like, right, kind of mundane or boring
or, or. Or hard moment kind of starts
to light up with some magic. So those are two. Look
for the cracks and. And wholly noticing are two
practices I, I'm relying on heavily these days.
>> Jessica David (10:40):
I really love what, what Madeline said
about the symphony of the mundane. I'm gonna, I'm gonna be
pondering that one as I move through the world.
I am a person who spends a lot of time in my
head thinking.
Thinking, thinking, thinking, thinking.
Unlike Peterson, I do enjoy a good
(11:00):
guided meditation. For a
long time I tried to do sitting
meditation. I had a sitting meditation practice.
I would try and do it sometimes like
45 minutes a day. I went on
meditation retreats which involved a lot of
sitting meditation and it wasn't that
that time didn't have value,
(11:22):
but I just felt like I was always
still stuck in my head.
And then I had a conversation with a
somatics coach who
also had had a long lineage
in sitting meditation practices.
They told me that for a lot of people,
(11:42):
particularly those who have a
trauma response that is to freeze
sitting for long periods of time can be
counterproductive to connecting more deeply with the
body, that it can actually take us, um,
further out of the body instead of dropping us
into the body. That was like a huge
(12:03):
aha moment for me. Wow. Yeah.
Yeah. Amazing, right?
Amazing. Yes.
So I'm more into movement these
days. M. I
have been experimenting with humming
and chanting.
That really gets me into my body
(12:24):
in a new and interesting way,
feeling those kind of vibrations and, like,
allowing myself to sway and move.
Dancing around my house is also super helpful,
particularly if there's an 80s playlist involved.
Child of the 80s.
Child of the 80s. And as
(12:45):
Madeline was saying, just paying attention,
really taking time to notice
things, which I normally just like, breeze by or
ignore, has helped me to
ignite the sense of wonder and awe. Uh, and
particularly if I'm feeling overwhelmed by the state
of the world, which is often these days,
(13:05):
bringing it down to such a small
level. Looking at the slug that's
crawling across my walkway in the rain
or the droplet of water
on a flower petal
really helps me to get
grounded, be present,
(13:25):
and move out of that sense of overwhelm,
even if just for a few moments.
Already, listeners, I feel normalized.
What I'm really taking away from this conversation is in
many ways, these are things that we sort of would do
instinctually. Right? Our attention would be captured
by the slug. It would take
(13:46):
a minute to breathe and to pause.
I love this notion of giving names for it
and making it into something. Elevating it almost.
Madeline's so good at giving things names.
The holy. Noticing it just elevates
it into a m. More deliberate practice and
also, you know, starts to trigger that muscle memory
(14:07):
idea.
So what does practice offer us in a
climate changed world, specifically?
>> Madeline Bugeau-Heartt (14:14):
I've been thinking about this question,
Jessica, again, if I'm good at elevating things
with names, you're really good at questions.
>> Peterson Toscano (14:23):
Seriously.
>> Madeline Bugeau-Heartt (14:24):
I think that we can collectively agree, even if we don't have
any answers, that what we're doing as a species is
not working by way of this climate
changed context, this idea of
practicing within a climate changed world.
The image that kept coming to me this morning when I was thinking about this
Was. Remember that book, the Chronicles of Narnia?
>> Jessica David (14:44):
Oh yeah, I love those books.
>> Madeline Bugeau-Heartt (14:47):
The best CS Lewis on brand.
Kids would go through the wardrobe
into another world. And I think of practices
that way as a way of like a window we
can climb through to live differently into
the world we're longing for.
>> Jessica David (15:03):
Oh my goodness.
>> Madeline Bugeau-Heartt (15:05):
Oh, wait, pause.
>> Jessica David (15:05):
Uh, pause, pause, pause, pause, pause, pause. You, uh,
gotta say that again. That's amazing. It's a window
we can climb into the world we're
longing for.
>> Madeline Bugeau-Heartt (15:15):
Yes, yes, I think that's
true. I, uh, mean, that's what I'm holding right now. And
this place, again, like a container for that particular
alchemy and that place to
experiment within threshold. And especially I
think if we're doing this in an embodied way, and
we've been talking, I think so far, a lot about individual
practices, but if we do this together,
(15:38):
there's a different kind of muscle that gets
activated by way of, of this
art of manifestation that we're so
desperately need. Not only need, but are longing
for. And I, I think is waiting for us.
>> Jessica David (15:53):
Yeah, I love all of that, Madeline.
So good. Honestly, I think one of the
great gifts of practice and of embodied living
for me is getting in touch with
grief. You know,
so much of the violence and trauma and
disconnection and terrible things
(16:14):
in the world feel rooted to
me in a refusal to acknowledge or
engage with our own grief and our own
mortality. And I know that I
can be in that space too, of like
pushing, pushing, pushing, pushing those
difficult emotions and experiences
away. And so
(16:36):
practice for me is a way of
edging up to that, you know, touching it,
um, feeling it, allowing
myself space to be with the
discomfort and the big emotions.
And sometimes that is just like a
little tiny touch. And sometimes I'm in a space where
(16:57):
I can go deeper with it. It, uh, just sort of depends on
the day and what's going on.
But the practice of it gives me
the space to play with that, if
I can say, like play in the context
of difficult emotions. It takes time,
it takes softening, it takes stepping in,
(17:18):
stepping back. It's like a whole dance.
But practice makes space for all
of that in an intentional
way. And it, it's not only about grief or
the difficult emotions, but it brings
those into the conversation
with joy. And you know,
(17:39):
the more that we can feel
and experience our grief, the
more we can feel and experience our joy as well.
Mhm.
>> Peterson Toscano (17:49):
I'm so glad, Ash, that you mentioned this because
it's such an emotional issue, but often
the emotions that I Feel aren't useful.
Like grief is a very useful emotion,
uh, because, you know, it's connected to love
often and it's honest.
But so often the feelings that come up for me, this
(18:11):
sort of exhausting emotional loop I get caught in is
fear, shame and
despair. And
by doing a practice, it makes space for something else.
It doesn't erase these hard feelings, but it
clears some of the fog. And these are foggy feelings.
Fear, shame and despair. But suddenly there's
(18:31):
room for other emotions like grief.
>> Jessica David (18:34):
Mhm.
>> Peterson Toscano (18:35):
Like anger, which I think is really
underused and underexplored.
We get nervous around anger, but that seems
to be an appropriate response to
our climate change world, to be angry.
And when I'm not stuck in anxiety or guilt, I
can definitely think more clearly, I can make better
(18:56):
choices. And maybe more importantly,
when we're in that space, without all that fear and
anxiety and guilt, we can listen to ourselves, listen to
others, and to what's needed in
that moment. So I find that
practices, these grounding practices,
they create that opening.
>> Jessica David (19:18):
That'S so lovely. I want to ask so many more
questions and I feel like we could, we could have our own
podcast about practices and groundings
and contemplation.
>> Peterson Toscano (19:27):
This is the practices podcast with Jessica.
>> Madeline Bugeau-Heartt (19:30):
And friends and friends
and friends.
>> Jessica David (19:35):
It's like so easy street.
I love it.
But we don't have time. Um, Peterson
always tells me we don't have time. So sorry Peterson, I'm
blipping for that timekeeper.
So we are very fortunate that Ash is going to lead
us in our first practice, this episode. So
(19:55):
listeners, each of us, each of the four voices you're hearing
today will, will lead a practice.
Short, short, fairly simple
practice, um, this episode and then in the next
three. But today is going to be Ash's
turn. So Ash, before we get into the
specifics, tell us what your
intentions were for this practice or
(20:17):
exercise.
Hmm, mhm. Uh, I guess my
intentions for this practice are really to allow
a little space to engage with the body
as part of this world and as part
of creation. I talked about how
I'm a kind of person who's often in my head
spinning and thinking and
(20:39):
analyzing. I don't think I'm alone in that.
And so, um, what I wanted to
do is, is offer some space where
we can really engage with our
bodies in a new and hopefully
kind of fun way in conversation with,
um, the more than human world.
(21:01):
I think about what theologian
Sally mcfaig said, that
the earth is the body of God.
M which means that all of Us
are parts of the body of the divine. We're
parts of the divine becoming.
And I wanted to explore that a little.
(21:22):
M. I love that. So how
did you assemble or put this
together? Create this?
Um, yeah,
it's really about noticing
how we are alike in a
real bodily way to so much
of the creation that's around us. Um,
(21:44):
thinking about what we were talking about in our
conversation of, uh, attention
and noticing and how
that kind of deep noticing and awareness
for me, starts to break down the barriers
between what's human and what's
other than human and, um,
(22:05):
how these sort of false divisions that we create
between ourselves and, and the other.
And so I wanted to see what it
felt like to see and feel
physical resemblances to other beings
and to touch into our kinship with the natural
(22:26):
world in a different way. Maybe a little
less cerebral and a little bit more
embodied. Mhm.
Oh, I feel so fortunate. I have goosebumps.
All right, take it away.
All right, so
thank you all for being willing to
step into this space and experience some
(22:48):
practices with each of us.
When things in the world feel overwhelming,
I find myself living in my head
with spinning thoughts and plans and
anxieties drawing my energy upward,
moving away from the grounding of my
body. Recently
(23:11):
I had the opportunity to accompany a retreat
focused on the poetry of Mary Oliver. Some
of you might be familiar with her work.
And she has this exhortation in her poem
Wild Geese, to
quote, let the soft animal of your body
love what it loves.
(23:31):
And that just struck me anew. Uh,
so this practice is a way in which I have been
playing with that invitation of love and
creatureliness. So
I'm going to invite you, if you have the
capacity and the wherewithal to
step outside of wherever you are.
(23:52):
You might find a space near a tree, or in your
garden, or on your front porch, or wherever
it may be. Um, if you're not able
to be outside, you can still do this Practice.
You'll just be a little bit more in your imagination.
So wherever you are, take some time
(24:12):
to just breathe deeply and
feel your body to
arrive in the space wherever you are.
You don't need to force the breath in any particular way.
Just breathe
once you feel grounded and comfortable.
(24:34):
Look around you if you're outside,
or even if you're inside and focus
on an other than human being.
You can also call into your mind
an other than human being
in your imagination if you prefer.
(24:55):
This could be a particular kind of tree,
another mammal, a bird,
a body of water,
any being that feels right to
you
take a few moments to greet and really
attend to that being, whether this is
(25:16):
in your imagination or in front of you with
your senses.
Notice the textures of its skin
or its fur or its bark,
its leaves, its feathers.
Notice the way it moves, the
sounds it makes,
(25:39):
its way of being in its own particular
place.
Now notice a way in which your own body
resonates with the qualities of this being.
Maybe the hair on your head is
rustling in the wind the same
(26:00):
way a fox's fur might.
M maybe your skin feels
alternately rough and smooth,
like the bark of a birch tree.
Maybe you imagine the movement of water
through your cells like that of a river,
(26:22):
or the salt taste of your tears as
tiny droplets of ocean.
Maybe your spirit is feeling raucous,
like the cry of a blue jay.
Whatever it is, let the soft
animal of your body find
(26:42):
communion with the body of this other
being. Take
some time to really explore the
resonances, the connections,
the intertwining rhythms of yourself
and this other being.
(27:07):
You can stay in this practice for as long
as you would like.
You can even do it with more than one
being at a time, if you'd like
noticing similarities,
differences,
relationships.
When it feels complete to you,
(27:31):
take some time to offer gratitude to this
being and
also, just as importantly, to
your own animal body.
You can say a blessing or a
prayer, something like, I
honor the kinship between you and I,
(27:52):
and I offer you peace and
safety.
But you can also offer gratitude in other
ways. You don't have to use words.
You can sing or hum.
You can write a letter or
a poem and read it to this being.
(28:15):
You can dance around and
let the movement of your spirit
connect you even further to this
wild world.
Use this time to celebrate your place
in the beautiful communion of
beings in this world.
(28:39):
And I hope that this practice
leads you just a little bit further
into that sense of kinship and
connection.
(29:16):
M thank you, Ash, for that, that beautiful
exercise. I'm. I'm particularly struck by this
idea that you don't need
words to express gratitude or. Or
really any emotion. I am a. I am a word
person. I.
I will give everything words, and if it could have one word, I will give
it five words. Um, but that there are other
(29:38):
ways to. To express that and to make
those connections is really powerful.
Yeah.
Thank you.
Thank you so much.
Peterson and Madeline, any
reflections?
>> Peterson Toscano (29:53):
Well, what I love about this, to me, it didn't feel like a guided
meditation because you were giving us a practice that we
can go off and do by ourselves. You were, in fact,
teaching us a skill. Uh, And a way of
looking at the world. So I like that because,
yes, we needed you to share the
practice, but then you gave us the practice, we can walk away
(30:13):
and do it on our own. And I like that
because that is something one can do every day from the same
spot right outside their door if they like.
>> Madeline Bugeau-Heartt (30:24):
And I was so struck, like,
it hit me like, right in the heart. When you
first said the word communion, I was like,
oh my, oh, I'm in communion with this
lovely dirty old pigeon that lives
outside of my house. It's on my
window. It's always like, ugh, but so beautiful. And
(30:44):
oh, uh, may we all remember our
creatureliness. M. Thank you
for that reminder.
>> Jessica David (30:50):
Yeah, I love that.
And, and the word that struck me, Ash, was
exhortation. M. Yeah,
I love bringing exhortation
into practice and I love
challenging us to think about exhort.
Exhorting without words.
(31:11):
Yeah, like you. I am, um, you, uh, know,
anything that could be said in three words I will
say in 25. So I.
It's really a great practice for me to think
about an offering
of myself in a way
that doesn't involve words.
(31:31):
Words are beautiful and I love writing
and I love weaving words
in a particular way. Um,
and also, it's just like a lovely
practice to do things differently and
to offer relationality
in a way that is not perhaps
(31:51):
my first inclination.
Mhm. Yeah, it almost means more
too that way, to receive it.
M. Yeah. I don't know if
the birds and the trees are that into my dancing,
but, you know,
I give it freely anyway.
(32:12):
I don't know, that pigeon sounds like it's pretty incidental.
>> Madeline Bugeau-Heartt (32:15):
It's waiting for you, Ash.
>> Jessica David (32:18):
I'm coming to Belfast to dance for the pigeons.
>> Madeline Bugeau-Heartt (32:21):
For the dirty old pigeons.
That is a moment of rupture that I'm waiting and willing to
see.
>> Jessica David (32:29):
Uh, I think that's the name of our next podcast, Dancing with
the Pigeons.
So into it.
I'm sorry, Peterson. We're creating more work for you.
Thank you, Ash. Ah, I'm so grateful for you and your
words and your. All the
ways that you bring us connection. Thank
you.
(32:49):
Thanks, Jessica.
Okay, listeners, now it is your turn.
What did you think? Tell us
about your experience with this practice or
any practice that brings you strength and peace.
You can email
us@podcasthebtscenter.org
(33:10):
that address again is podcast
the btscenter.org
or leave a voicemail at
207-200-6986.
That's
207-200-6986.
And you can also text that number,
(33:31):
207-200-6986.
If you're like me and do not like making phone calls,
we would love to hear from you. For
more on this or any of the other episodes,
visit
climatechangedpodcast.org
that website again is climate changed
(33:52):
podcast.org thank you so much for
listening to the Climate Change Podcast behind the
Scenes Edition with me, Jessica
David. Coming up in our next
episode, our, uh, producer Peterson
Toscano is going to join us with another
practice. Many thanks to
Ash for guiding us through today's practice and
(34:14):
special thanks also to you producer Peterson,
for producing this episode and joining us for the
conversation. To Nicole Deroff for your
assistance and support and to Madeline for
joining us here today. We're excited for
your also, I gotta say, maybe a little nervous for
for Madeline's practice. Coming up,
Climate Changed Podcast is a project of the BTS
(34:36):
center in beautiful Portland, Maine.
Learn about the many resources we offer along with
our in person and online programs.
Visit our website
thebtscenter.org
that's thebtscenter.org
Take Good Care my friends.
Hello, friends. How do you stay
grounded when it comes to our climate catastrophe?
What keeps you connected? Seriously, I need
to know. I'm Jessica David, a Harvard Divinity
School student and intern at the BTS
Center. This is the climate Change
podcast Behind the Scenes Edition.
(00:20):
We're breaking things up over the next few episodes
with special practices designed just for you
will be guided through a, uh, contemplative or embodied
practice developed and delivered to you with
love by a member of our team. Each practice
strives to remind us that there are lots of ways
of making sense of things. Our hope is that we
(00:40):
each feel connected to something bigger and wiser than
ourselves, so we can keep showing up for today's
climate changed world. I'm joined today
by three colleagues who each bring unique gifts
and perspectives to this conversation. Hi
there.
I'm Ash Teuman, and I serve as the
communications manager at the BTS
(01:00):
Center. I'm also a spiritual director
and lover of wild
spaces.
>> Madeline Bugeau-Heartt (01:07):
And I'm Madeline Bujo Hart. I'm the
program associate at the BTS Center.
And when I'm not doing that, I'm making weird
theater with my beloved theater company and
doing, um, organizing work in my community up
in Belfast, Maine.
>> Peterson Toscano (01:23):
I'm Peterson Centoscano, and I'm even more behind the
scenes than Jessica. I work with the host
to produce each episode of Climate Changed Podcast.
I also work as an artistic consultant
creating original videos for the BTS
Center. Beyond this work, I host my own
podcast, including Bubble and Squeak,
an audio playground.
>> Jessica David (01:44):
I am so excited to be here with the three of you today.
I hope the listeners can hear it, uh, in my voice,
how much fun we're having.
So the BTS center often includes a
grounding or some kind of activity in your
programs. Why? What is it about
practice that matters?
>> Peterson Toscano (02:04):
Well, I, uh, think regardless of the practice, and there's
lots of different ones, the goal is to get out of our heads
and stop all that clatter and chatter that
is happening. So during the regular season
of this podcast, each episode begins
with a grounding. And listeners typically
don't expect this at first because it's not what
(02:24):
happens in most podcasts. But
once people start listening, they begin to look forward to
this practice. It allows them this moment
to slow down, to show up with their
ears open so that they can hear more
deeply what will be shared. Uh,
personally, I do a daily Quaker practice
of silence for five to 15 minutes. And
(02:47):
truly, some days are easier than others. But
this practice resembles how I stretch every morning to
keep my back and body limber.
This repetition makes it easier over time.
So with my muscles, I develop a muscle
memory in my very tight hamstrings.
So they are more responsive over time and they're
less tight every day.
(03:10):
Similarly, the daily silent
spiritual practice helps me settle and stay
silent faster. Like I get into it quicker
and I'm um, then better prepared for the marathon,
hour long Quaker meetings for worship.
>> Madeline Bugeau-Heartt (03:24):
I love this question of, of uh, what about
practice matters? This, this kind
of container. And I just feel so strongly that
there's a huge difference between intellectual,
heady, reason based knowing, which I think
a lot of us are very comfortable with, and
embodied knowing. And the example I have of that. And
(03:44):
I think this is like a wish that I'm having, which is I wish
I could cook a poached egg. If I read a
recipe or I read in a cookbook how to do
how to make a poached egg, I can
intellectually grasp it. But it's not until my
hand and the boiling water and the egg is in the
water that I actually know how to cook a poached egg.
I really believe that practices
(04:06):
are containers for us to live differently
and containers for alchemy, dare I
say, and transformation. And I
love what Peterson was saying about repetition.
And I think about, um, when I was a kid, I used to play the alto
saxophone big into jazz.
>> Jessica David (04:24):
Wow.
>> Madeline Bugeau-Heartt (04:24):
I thought I was great. Sometimes I'd wear a beret, which is
horrifying, while I would play, but.
But it was in the practicing of the scales
that I, by the time I had done it over the course of a
couple of years, I didn't have to think about it anymore. It was just
a part of who I was. So I just think that RePet,
um, piece is so important to this conversation about practice and
(04:45):
living differently.
>> Jessica David (04:48):
Yeah. And as you mentioned, Jessica, at
the BTS center, we start really all
of our programs with some sort of practice.
We really see all of our programs, whether it's uh, a book study
or a podcast or a public conversation,
as being spiritual and spiritually
grounded. And part of
(05:10):
really recognizing that is taking a
contemplative stance and inviting
people to step into a space
and a, uh, spaciousness that might not be
as present in their busy day to day lives.
So we have this intentional time for
arriving and grounding ourselves in community with
(05:30):
one another, dropping into a
different dimension of ourselves for a
period of time at least.
And I'll say that for me personally, that
idea of muscle memory really resonates also.
And it's about using different muscles than
I'M used to using. I spend a lot of time in
my head and being able to spend a little
(05:53):
bit of time each day bringing
practice into my body, into my
breath, into my movement, uh, uh, really
helps me to keep a broad
and open perspective on all the things that
I'm doing in my life on a.
Day to day basis.
Mhm. Yeah.
So what I'm really taking away from this, I think is, is two
(06:16):
things. One is this, you know, Ash said, dropping
into a different dimension. And it's sort of ironic that
we have to set aside
this time and, and space to do that
intentionally to sort of check in with ourselves.
But also the component of uh,
it's not just a intellectual or a mental exercise,
(06:37):
that it's checking in with the whole
of ourselves, which may include more than just our mind. And that
I think that's the piece that's the hardest for me as someone who lives
almost entirely in my mind. Checking in
mentally is not, not a challenge. But spreading
beyond that and remembering that I actually have a, um,
body exist in a world, sometimes I
(06:58):
forget to do that.
So I'm super curious. Peterson already talked
about this a little bit. Uh, uh, but what practices do you all
find meaningful in your own lives? Please tell
me all of them.
>> Peterson Toscano (07:09):
Can I tell you one I don't like? Yeah,
please, please don't hate on me for people who
like this practice. And I'm saying this because just because a certain
practice doesn't work for you doesn't mean you are spiritually inadequate.
Because I really thought I was. Because I
don't like guided meditation
at all. Um, you listening? You may love
(07:31):
it and that's beautiful and I'm really happy for
you. But for me, being told when to
breathe, what to visualize and how to
feel pulls me out of my experience. It
feels like someone else is trying to drive my inner life and
I resist rather than relax.
And truly at first I thought there was just something spiritually wrong with
(07:51):
me, like this rebellious spirit. I
was like, why is this not working? And why is everyone
loving this? It's horrible. But it turns
out it just doesn't work for me. So these
days when I'm online and this a
guided meditation starts, I just lower the
volume and slide into my own quiet place and
(08:11):
everybody's happy. But that's the key. Different
practices meet different needs. But the
question is, what practices do I find
meaningful? Well, I do well with the ones that
help me connect with my body and that
involve movement. Partly because I sit so much
and I know this is definitely one of Madeline's specialties.
>> Madeline Bugeau-Heartt (08:33):
Thank you for letting us off the hook of guided
meditations.
>> Peterson Toscano (08:38):
I was worried, I'm like, oh, maybe we don't have guided
meditations. And I just crashed.
>> Madeline Bugeau-Heartt (08:42):
We probably will. But also.
>> Jessica David (08:44):
Whatever.
>> Madeline Bugeau-Heartt (08:45):
Something for everyone.
Oh, uh, thank you so much for that.
>> Jessica David (08:49):
2.
>> Madeline Bugeau-Heartt (08:50):
Okay, here are two practices that I'm personally leaning into
these days. One I'm calling falling through the cracks.
>> Jessica David (08:55):
Mhm.
>> Madeline Bugeau-Heartt (08:56):
Or I don't know, embodying in the
cracks. And for me, this is the practice of
breaking patterns of normalcy by
practicing minor disruptions. So
often we're on autopilot. And for me that leads to
this sense of like a lack of agency. And especially in
the times we're living in, if you can just find
like strange little cracks in what you think
(09:19):
is normal, something else emerges.
I did a theater production recently and we had every single
audience member smell a big bouquet of
flowers as if it was the last
thing they would ever smell. And we had them smell
in pears.
>> Jessica David (09:33):
Which was awfully cute.
>> Madeline Bugeau-Heartt (09:35):
And it's small, right? Like, and it's not like a high
risk practice, but it was a disruption because
how often do any of us really do that?
The second practice that I try to do,
uh, sometimes, I mean, usually
I'm forgetting. But when I do remember to do this, it's a small
victory is something I call holy noticing.
And that you can do anytime, any place. And you just
(09:58):
stop yourself in any moment and just notice how the
world is noticing you and what
is happening around you, what smells
or visuals or sounds or tastes are
erupting in that particular moment.
And I like to think about it as like a symphony
of the mundane. And I like to think about
it as, as something that might be occurring
(10:21):
just for me to partake in. And suddenly this
like, right, kind of mundane or boring
or, or. Or hard moment kind of starts
to light up with some magic. So those are two. Look
for the cracks and. And wholly noticing are two
practices I, I'm relying on heavily these days.
>> Jessica David (10:40):
I really love what, what Madeline said
about the symphony of the mundane. I'm gonna, I'm gonna be
pondering that one as I move through the world.
I am a person who spends a lot of time in my
head thinking.
Thinking, thinking, thinking, thinking.
Unlike Peterson, I do enjoy a good
(11:00):
guided meditation. For a
long time I tried to do sitting
meditation. I had a sitting meditation practice.
I would try and do it sometimes like
45 minutes a day. I went on
meditation retreats which involved a lot of
sitting meditation and it wasn't that
that time didn't have value,
(11:22):
but I just felt like I was always
still stuck in my head.
And then I had a conversation with a
somatics coach who
also had had a long lineage
in sitting meditation practices.
They told me that for a lot of people,
(11:42):
particularly those who have a
trauma response that is to freeze
sitting for long periods of time can be
counterproductive to connecting more deeply with the
body, that it can actually take us, um,
further out of the body instead of dropping us
into the body. That was like a huge
(12:03):
aha moment for me. Wow. Yeah.
Yeah. Amazing, right?
Amazing. Yes.
So I'm more into movement these
days. M. I
have been experimenting with humming
and chanting.
That really gets me into my body
(12:24):
in a new and interesting way,
feeling those kind of vibrations and, like,
allowing myself to sway and move.
Dancing around my house is also super helpful,
particularly if there's an 80s playlist involved.
Child of the 80s.
Child of the 80s. And as
(12:45):
Madeline was saying, just paying attention,
really taking time to notice
things, which I normally just like, breeze by or
ignore, has helped me to
ignite the sense of wonder and awe. Uh, and
particularly if I'm feeling overwhelmed by the state
of the world, which is often these days,
(13:05):
bringing it down to such a small
level. Looking at the slug that's
crawling across my walkway in the rain
or the droplet of water
on a flower petal
really helps me to get
grounded, be present,
(13:25):
and move out of that sense of overwhelm,
even if just for a few moments.
Already, listeners, I feel normalized.
What I'm really taking away from this conversation is in
many ways, these are things that we sort of would do
instinctually. Right? Our attention would be captured
by the slug. It would take
(13:46):
a minute to breathe and to pause.
I love this notion of giving names for it
and making it into something. Elevating it almost.
Madeline's so good at giving things names.
The holy. Noticing it just elevates
it into a m. More deliberate practice and
also, you know, starts to trigger that muscle memory
(14:07):
idea.
So what does practice offer us in a
climate changed world, specifically?
>> Madeline Bugeau-Heartt (14:14):
I've been thinking about this question,
Jessica, again, if I'm good at elevating things
with names, you're really good at questions.
>> Peterson Toscano (14:23):
Seriously.
>> Madeline Bugeau-Heartt (14:24):
I think that we can collectively agree, even if we don't have
any answers, that what we're doing as a species is
not working by way of this climate
changed context, this idea of
practicing within a climate changed world.
The image that kept coming to me this morning when I was thinking about this
Was. Remember that book, the Chronicles of Narnia?
>> Jessica David (14:44):
Oh yeah, I love those books.
>> Madeline Bugeau-Heartt (14:47):
The best CS Lewis on brand.
Kids would go through the wardrobe
into another world. And I think of practices
that way as a way of like a window we
can climb through to live differently into
the world we're longing for.
>> Jessica David (15:03):
Oh my goodness.
>> Madeline Bugeau-Heartt (15:05):
Oh, wait, pause.
>> Jessica David (15:05):
Uh, pause, pause, pause, pause, pause, pause. You, uh,
gotta say that again. That's amazing. It's a window
we can climb into the world we're
longing for.
>> Madeline Bugeau-Heartt (15:15):
Yes, yes, I think that's
true. I, uh, mean, that's what I'm holding right now. And
this place, again, like a container for that particular
alchemy and that place to
experiment within threshold. And especially I
think if we're doing this in an embodied way, and
we've been talking, I think so far, a lot about individual
practices, but if we do this together,
(15:38):
there's a different kind of muscle that gets
activated by way of, of this
art of manifestation that we're so
desperately need. Not only need, but are longing
for. And I, I think is waiting for us.
>> Jessica David (15:53):
Yeah, I love all of that, Madeline.
So good. Honestly, I think one of the
great gifts of practice and of embodied living
for me is getting in touch with
grief. You know,
so much of the violence and trauma and
disconnection and terrible things
(16:14):
in the world feel rooted to
me in a refusal to acknowledge or
engage with our own grief and our own
mortality. And I know that I
can be in that space too, of like
pushing, pushing, pushing, pushing those
difficult emotions and experiences
away. And so
(16:36):
practice for me is a way of
edging up to that, you know, touching it,
um, feeling it, allowing
myself space to be with the
discomfort and the big emotions.
And sometimes that is just like a
little tiny touch. And sometimes I'm in a space where
(16:57):
I can go deeper with it. It, uh, just sort of depends on
the day and what's going on.
But the practice of it gives me
the space to play with that, if
I can say, like play in the context
of difficult emotions. It takes time,
it takes softening, it takes stepping in,
(17:18):
stepping back. It's like a whole dance.
But practice makes space for all
of that in an intentional
way. And it, it's not only about grief or
the difficult emotions, but it brings
those into the conversation
with joy. And you know,
(17:39):
the more that we can feel
and experience our grief, the
more we can feel and experience our joy as well.
Mhm.
>> Peterson Toscano (17:49):
I'm so glad, Ash, that you mentioned this because
it's such an emotional issue, but often
the emotions that I Feel aren't useful.
Like grief is a very useful emotion,
uh, because, you know, it's connected to love
often and it's honest.
But so often the feelings that come up for me, this
(18:11):
sort of exhausting emotional loop I get caught in is
fear, shame and
despair. And
by doing a practice, it makes space for something else.
It doesn't erase these hard feelings, but it
clears some of the fog. And these are foggy feelings.
Fear, shame and despair. But suddenly there's
(18:31):
room for other emotions like grief.
>> Jessica David (18:34):
Mhm.
>> Peterson Toscano (18:35):
Like anger, which I think is really
underused and underexplored.
We get nervous around anger, but that seems
to be an appropriate response to
our climate change world, to be angry.
And when I'm not stuck in anxiety or guilt, I
can definitely think more clearly, I can make better
(18:56):
choices. And maybe more importantly,
when we're in that space, without all that fear and
anxiety and guilt, we can listen to ourselves, listen to
others, and to what's needed in
that moment. So I find that
practices, these grounding practices,
they create that opening.
>> Jessica David (19:18):
That'S so lovely. I want to ask so many more
questions and I feel like we could, we could have our own
podcast about practices and groundings
and contemplation.
>> Peterson Toscano (19:27):
This is the practices podcast with Jessica.
>> Madeline Bugeau-Heartt (19:30):
And friends and friends
and friends.
>> Jessica David (19:35):
It's like so easy street.
I love it.
But we don't have time. Um, Peterson
always tells me we don't have time. So sorry Peterson, I'm
blipping for that timekeeper.
So we are very fortunate that Ash is going to lead
us in our first practice, this episode. So
(19:55):
listeners, each of us, each of the four voices you're hearing
today will, will lead a practice.
Short, short, fairly simple
practice, um, this episode and then in the next
three. But today is going to be Ash's
turn. So Ash, before we get into the
specifics, tell us what your
intentions were for this practice or
(20:17):
exercise.
Hmm, mhm. Uh, I guess my
intentions for this practice are really to allow
a little space to engage with the body
as part of this world and as part
of creation. I talked about how
I'm a kind of person who's often in my head
spinning and thinking and
(20:39):
analyzing. I don't think I'm alone in that.
And so, um, what I wanted to
do is, is offer some space where
we can really engage with our
bodies in a new and hopefully
kind of fun way in conversation with,
um, the more than human world.
(21:01):
I think about what theologian
Sally mcfaig said, that
the earth is the body of God.
M which means that all of Us
are parts of the body of the divine. We're
parts of the divine becoming.
And I wanted to explore that a little.
(21:22):
M. I love that. So how
did you assemble or put this
together? Create this?
Um, yeah,
it's really about noticing
how we are alike in a
real bodily way to so much
of the creation that's around us. Um,
(21:44):
thinking about what we were talking about in our
conversation of, uh, attention
and noticing and how
that kind of deep noticing and awareness
for me, starts to break down the barriers
between what's human and what's
other than human and, um,
(22:05):
how these sort of false divisions that we create
between ourselves and, and the other.
And so I wanted to see what it
felt like to see and feel
physical resemblances to other beings
and to touch into our kinship with the natural
(22:26):
world in a different way. Maybe a little
less cerebral and a little bit more
embodied. Mhm.
Oh, I feel so fortunate. I have goosebumps.
All right, take it away.
All right, so
thank you all for being willing to
step into this space and experience some
(22:48):
practices with each of us.
When things in the world feel overwhelming,
I find myself living in my head
with spinning thoughts and plans and
anxieties drawing my energy upward,
moving away from the grounding of my
body. Recently
(23:11):
I had the opportunity to accompany a retreat
focused on the poetry of Mary Oliver. Some
of you might be familiar with her work.
And she has this exhortation in her poem
Wild Geese, to
quote, let the soft animal of your body
love what it loves.
(23:31):
And that just struck me anew. Uh,
so this practice is a way in which I have been
playing with that invitation of love and
creatureliness. So
I'm going to invite you, if you have the
capacity and the wherewithal to
step outside of wherever you are.
(23:52):
You might find a space near a tree, or in your
garden, or on your front porch, or wherever
it may be. Um, if you're not able
to be outside, you can still do this Practice.
You'll just be a little bit more in your imagination.
So wherever you are, take some time
(24:12):
to just breathe deeply and
feel your body to
arrive in the space wherever you are.
You don't need to force the breath in any particular way.
Just breathe
once you feel grounded and comfortable.
(24:34):
Look around you if you're outside,
or even if you're inside and focus
on an other than human being.
You can also call into your mind
an other than human being
in your imagination if you prefer.
(24:55):
This could be a particular kind of tree,
another mammal, a bird,
a body of water,
any being that feels right to
you
take a few moments to greet and really
attend to that being, whether this is
(25:16):
in your imagination or in front of you with
your senses.
Notice the textures of its skin
or its fur or its bark,
its leaves, its feathers.
Notice the way it moves, the
sounds it makes,
(25:39):
its way of being in its own particular
place.
Now notice a way in which your own body
resonates with the qualities of this being.
Maybe the hair on your head is
rustling in the wind the same
(26:00):
way a fox's fur might.
M maybe your skin feels
alternately rough and smooth,
like the bark of a birch tree.
Maybe you imagine the movement of water
through your cells like that of a river,
(26:22):
or the salt taste of your tears as
tiny droplets of ocean.
Maybe your spirit is feeling raucous,
like the cry of a blue jay.
Whatever it is, let the soft
animal of your body find
(26:42):
communion with the body of this other
being. Take
some time to really explore the
resonances, the connections,
the intertwining rhythms of yourself
and this other being.
(27:07):
You can stay in this practice for as long
as you would like.
You can even do it with more than one
being at a time, if you'd like
noticing similarities,
differences,
relationships.
When it feels complete to you,
(27:31):
take some time to offer gratitude to this
being and
also, just as importantly, to
your own animal body.
You can say a blessing or a
prayer, something like, I
honor the kinship between you and I,
(27:52):
and I offer you peace and
safety.
But you can also offer gratitude in other
ways. You don't have to use words.
You can sing or hum.
You can write a letter or
a poem and read it to this being.
(28:15):
You can dance around and
let the movement of your spirit
connect you even further to this
wild world.
Use this time to celebrate your place
in the beautiful communion of
beings in this world.
(28:39):
And I hope that this practice
leads you just a little bit further
into that sense of kinship and
connection.
(29:16):
M thank you, Ash, for that, that beautiful
exercise. I'm. I'm particularly struck by this
idea that you don't need
words to express gratitude or. Or
really any emotion. I am a. I am a word
person. I.
I will give everything words, and if it could have one word, I will give
it five words. Um, but that there are other
(29:38):
ways to. To express that and to make
those connections is really powerful.
Yeah.
Thank you.
Thank you so much.
Peterson and Madeline, any
reflections?
>> Peterson Toscano (29:53):
Well, what I love about this, to me, it didn't feel like a guided
meditation because you were giving us a practice that we
can go off and do by ourselves. You were, in fact,
teaching us a skill. Uh, And a way of
looking at the world. So I like that because,
yes, we needed you to share the
practice, but then you gave us the practice, we can walk away
(30:13):
and do it on our own. And I like that
because that is something one can do every day from the same
spot right outside their door if they like.
>> Madeline Bugeau-Heartt (30:24):
And I was so struck, like,
it hit me like, right in the heart. When you
first said the word communion, I was like,
oh my, oh, I'm in communion with this
lovely dirty old pigeon that lives
outside of my house. It's on my
window. It's always like, ugh, but so beautiful. And
(30:44):
oh, uh, may we all remember our
creatureliness. M. Thank you
for that reminder.
>> Jessica David (30:50):
Yeah, I love that.
And, and the word that struck me, Ash, was
exhortation. M. Yeah,
I love bringing exhortation
into practice and I love
challenging us to think about exhort.
Exhorting without words.
(31:11):
Yeah, like you. I am, um, you, uh, know,
anything that could be said in three words I will
say in 25. So I.
It's really a great practice for me to think
about an offering
of myself in a way
that doesn't involve words.
(31:31):
Words are beautiful and I love writing
and I love weaving words
in a particular way. Um,
and also, it's just like a lovely
practice to do things differently and
to offer relationality
in a way that is not perhaps
(31:51):
my first inclination.
Mhm. Yeah, it almost means more
too that way, to receive it.
M. Yeah. I don't know if
the birds and the trees are that into my dancing,
but, you know,
I give it freely anyway.
(32:12):
I don't know, that pigeon sounds like it's pretty incidental.
>> Madeline Bugeau-Heartt (32:15):
It's waiting for you, Ash.
>> Jessica David (32:18):
I'm coming to Belfast to dance for the pigeons.
>> Madeline Bugeau-Heartt (32:21):
For the dirty old pigeons.
That is a moment of rupture that I'm waiting and willing to
see.
>> Jessica David (32:29):
Uh, I think that's the name of our next podcast, Dancing with
the Pigeons.
So into it.
I'm sorry, Peterson. We're creating more work for you.
Thank you, Ash. Ah, I'm so grateful for you and your
words and your. All the
ways that you bring us connection. Thank
you.
(32:49):
Thanks, Jessica.
Okay, listeners, now it is your turn.
What did you think? Tell us
about your experience with this practice or
any practice that brings you strength and peace.
You can email
us@podcasthebtscenter.org
(33:10):
that address again is podcast
the btscenter.org
or leave a voicemail at
207-200-6986.
That's
207-200-6986.
And you can also text that number,
(33:31):
207-200-6986.
If you're like me and do not like making phone calls,
we would love to hear from you. For
more on this or any of the other episodes,
visit
climatechangedpodcast.org
that website again is climate changed
(33:52):
podcast.org thank you so much for
listening to the Climate Change Podcast behind the
Scenes Edition with me, Jessica
David. Coming up in our next
episode, our, uh, producer Peterson
Toscano is going to join us with another
practice. Many thanks to
Ash for guiding us through today's practice and
(34:14):
special thanks also to you producer Peterson,
for producing this episode and joining us for the
conversation. To Nicole Deroff for your
assistance and support and to Madeline for
joining us here today. We're excited for
your also, I gotta say, maybe a little nervous for
for Madeline's practice. Coming up,
Climate Changed Podcast is a project of the BTS
(34:36):
center in beautiful Portland, Maine.
Learn about the many resources we offer along with
our in person and online programs.
Visit our website
thebtscenter.org
that's thebtscenter.org
Take Good Care my friends.
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