July 21, 2024 • 42 mins
Hey there! 🌞 Ready for a deep dive into some intriguing and controversial topics? We chat about the intersection of faith and politics, exploring when it's okay to partner with people of different beliefs, especially in today's complex world.
From the dynamics between Trump and Biden to the moon landing theories, and even the role of the CIA, we touch on it all. But the heart of our discussion centers around how Christians should navigate partnerships and collaborations. Is it okay to work with others who don't share our faith? What are the biblical principles that should guide us?
We also share personal anecdotes about working with non-Christians, such as during the Million People March and political campaigns, and discuss the importance of staying true to our Christian values while achieving common goals.
So grab your coffee, settle in, and join us for a heartfelt conversation that aims to clarify, inspire, and maybe even challenge your perspectives!
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Hello. Good morning, good morning, good morning. It would be a better afternoon today.
I know, but you always go, good morning, good morning, good morning.
So I thought I would go, good morning, good morning, good morning.
Good afternoon doesn't sound as good. Okay. How are you doing? Have you got a topic?
I actually have a few big topics. Oh no, I've got a topic.
(00:22):
Okay, I'll share mine and then you tell me if yours is any more controversial than mine. Okay.
Okay, I was thinking of – I'm going to give you two and you give me your two.
I've only got one, one big one. Okay, so the one I'm thinking about,
obviously the one that's on the wall is obviously Trump, Biden,
Trump's assassination, the inside job, Biden, the moon landing or not landing.
(00:47):
He's done the moon landing.
Okay, I'm talking about Trump and Biden specifically and how the CIA – So what's
he going to do with the moon landing?
Well, how the CIA is behind all of this.
Okay, so – including this attempted assassination and how God foiled their plans.
So that's one. How controversial is that? What's controversial about it?
(01:08):
Well, it's controversial to many people.
Many people think, you know, that's not the case. It's isolated.
It's actually just that if you look at all media sources, they talk about this
boy, this guy. They don't say anything.
Why was – where's the Secret Service? Where were they?
They don't talk about any of that. They're just focusing on this boy mainly,
(01:30):
right? So that's why I'm talking about the controversial side.
That's one. The second one is….
You always heard, when you've been as a Christian for a long time,
you've heard of different deliverances, right?
You've heard of things like Mark Winkler's, where he delivers people,
or the Sozo technique, or there's different deliverances.
(01:54):
So is deliverance a biblical thing or not?
And if it is, is there any biblical support?
And if not, then why do people do that?
So that's a topic about deliverance I know we covered it last time,
Briefly but the question was The question was
(02:14):
Does it come from scripture And what does
it sound like And so if someone was listening How would they do a I want to
call this a self deliverance Yourself and how do you know if you have Demonic
spirits Affecting you right Which is controversial because many people in the
body of Christ Don't believe Christians can be
(02:35):
demonized or suppressed by the enemy.
Okay. So that was a topic. So those are the two things I had. So what did you have?
Well, I think the first one that we can sort out in a couple minutes if we want to talk about that.
And the second one I think is definitely worth talking about.
Today, we could even maybe do it on the second half of my topic I have.
And my topic was really something I've been pondering. and I have three examples
(03:00):
of how one makes a decision to do something that's right. And let me give you context.
So we live in a world where the most free society are the Western countries,
which are founded on Judeo-Christian principles. Would you agree?
(03:22):
Like, for example, if someone was a homosexual in Muslim countries,
head chopped off, hung, imprisoned, whipped.
Or thrown off a building. Thrown off a building. If someone doesn't follow a
religion in certain other religious countries, Muslim countries or Buddhist
or Hindu, they're isolated, they're targeted, they're persecuted.
(03:43):
As we know, Christians are persecuted in other countries, whereas Muslims,
Buddhists, Hindus are not persecuted in traditionally historic Christian countries.
So my question is – so I've got an example this week where at the Republican
National Convention, which I just happened to glance at, there was a Sikh woman who prayed.
A Sikh or a Hindu? No, she was Sikh. Oh, okay. And she prayed out loud.
(04:06):
She's very prominent in the Republican Party.
They had Christian people praying. But then you have situations like last year
when we did the Million People March and Christians collaborated with Muslims as parents.
We stood together against the transgender and the indoctrination of children in schools.
(04:29):
So my question with that background is,
when is it right to collaborate or work with other people from other faiths
to win them over versus saying, no, it needs to be Christian and Christian only?
Do you understand my topic?
(04:50):
Yeah, I'm just trying to put it into one sentence. Oh, one sentence.
My controversial topic can be one sentence.
No, what I'm saying is… Oh, the topic. The question, because once you can get
the question or define the question.
I know, but I had to give the background for you to understand where the thought process came from.
So could you summarize it into one question that we can wrestle through?
(05:10):
So one sentence would be, given that our mandate from Christ is to go into all
the world and preach the gospel.
Given that the Bible also says do not be unequally yoked,
how does one make a decision when to
collaborate work with interact partner with
people of other faith versus keeping things
(05:31):
exclusively christian when one when one doesn't when it follows the scriptures
in other words you're not unequally yoked in other words you you realize that
you firstly you acknowledge you're not equally yoked and you work so you don't
break the biblical principles,
and yet you work with somebody else to achieve a common objective.
(05:53):
So this is very similar to what happened in the Holocaust and in Nazi Germany,
when the Christians partnered with Jewish people, the same Jewish people that
rejected Christ as their Lord and Savior,
they partnered with them in order to help them. So they're,
It was a sense of helping people with a common objective of,
(06:18):
so for example, what- What was the overarching objective?
What Christian principles did they break? They showed love.
They set people, the captives free. Well, they never broke them.
You said what Christian principles did they break?
Well, that's what I'm saying. They didn't break any Christian principles and
they set the captives free. Yeah.
So they worked with them. Yeah. But they didn't go and become Jewish, right?
(06:41):
They didn't go – I'm not sure if some people maybe wore a star or didn't wear
a star for a specific purpose in order to infiltrate, to go and help them.
So the principle was to protect the lives of Jewish people. Of people. Just people, humanity.
People that are made in God, I mean, protect them. Because the Bible does say
that we are to defend the fatherless and the orphans.
(07:01):
So I think if – now, if, for example, they would say something like, okay, well,
let's say we need to join forces and we need to kill or do something bad against
the word of God, then we should not do that, right?
But say, for example, at the Republican National Convention,
(07:21):
like I'm very clear I'm a strong Christian.
But let's go back to the other one first before we get – that's a little more tougher.
The transgender You
mean go to the million dollar march The million dollar march Is organized
by a Muslim In partnership with
Christians It was a Muslim leader And he
(07:42):
was the only one That had the I want to use that To stand up against the media
And the indoctrination Which is fantastic What we as Christians should be doing
Because this is our country founded on Judea you know, Judeo-Christian principles.
Well, the people will say, well.
The country belonged to people before. Well, okay. Okay, so as we need to say,
(08:07):
found it on. We're talking about the system.
The system of the freedom that everybody's enjoying. The reason why people are
leaving other countries and coming to the places like here is because of the
Christian-Judaic principle.
No one's fleeing to go to Muslim countries. No one's fleeing to go to Buddhist-rich
countries. Or Hindu. Yeah. Why is that?
But people are sometimes too blind to see that the reason why they're doing
(08:31):
it is because of the freedom.
Because they don't understand that the true peace doesn't come from Islam,
from Buddhism or Hindus. It comes from Christ.
Because recognizing that people are individuals uniquely made in God's image.
That is why you'll find… Not God's children, right? Not God's children.
(08:52):
Made in God's image, which means you respect everybody.
You allow them to make their own choices. You don't force them.
It's amazing that Islam indoctrinates, they force, they basically put the foot
on somebody's neck in order to convert.
And if they don't convert, they will kill that person for converting,
going away from Islam. Hindu is not much different.
(09:12):
And same with Buddhism. Buddhism, actually, everybody says, well,
Buddhism focuses on happiness. No, it doesn't. It focuses on avoid suffering.
Yeah, so it's cloaked in this image of happiness, peace, but it's not.
So the point is that if you look at the Judeo-Christian countries,
they will say, okay, you can be an atheist.
(09:36):
And we will still love you and allow you to have your freedom of expression.
We'll not allow you, but what's the word? We tolerate, we accept,
we love because we recognize people as human beings and individuals.
And even homosexuals, it's like you make a choice.
You're making a choice in your lifestyle. We don't agree with that lifestyle making a choice.
But here's another thing. Somebody said to me this week, oh,
(09:59):
it's okay to go to a church that has the transgender rainbow LGBTQ one plus
flag. That's not a rainbow flag. I don't want to call it rainbow.
But you know the flag I'm talking about. It's okay to put that outside a church
because it's showing love to the people.
It's showing that you're welcome to come in and to be accepted and loved by Christ.
(10:19):
So how come that's not okay? And I said, if you go to a building that is called
a church, as in founded on the principles of the Bible, and they have any flag
like that outside their church, I'm like, you run in the opposite direction.
You get your butt out of there as fast as possible. That is not a church. That's a social club.
Catherine, that is so intolerant. That is so hateful.
(10:45):
I'm like, no, that's not hateful.
I'm telling you, if you call yourself a Christian, those are not.
It's the same as if somebody went and put up a Playboy flag.
If your church has got a Playboy flag outside, I would say run in the opposite direction too.
If your church has got a Nazi flag or a pirate flag or even a Republican flag
(11:05):
or a Democratic flag, any flag, you run the opposite direction.
Your church should not be standing up for man-made things. It's standing up
for what the principles of Christ say.
So are you saying then. So I know I'm getting very feisty here,
but it's like, at what point do you make a decision?
Because when I said she told you about the Republican convention,
that Sikh praying, I actually felt a little upset that she prayed.
(11:27):
But when I thought about it afterwards, I actually went back on that and I thought….
I don't want to hear her pray to another God, so I can choose to switch that off.
But at the same time, there's a common goal here. Now, I do believe the Sikh
religion is an offshoot of Christianity and they've got lost.
That's neither here nor there.
The fact is, I don't know if she's praying to Jesus and God the Father,
(11:51):
but you want to unite people on a common goal because there are principles of right and wrong.
And so then that's when I started thinking, well, when is it right to partner
with other people of different faiths? They've made a choice.
And so where is the line in the sand? That's the controversial part.
Where is the line in the sand?
Well, I think you just said the word partner, and I think we need to define what partner is.
(12:20):
So, for example, a husband and wife is a partner, but that is forever,
right? So husband and wife, forever partner.
The Bible's very clear on that, Devin. Okay, so when you say partner,
the question is what level of partnership we're talking about.
When we're having a business, there's a partnership.
So even that with a business. So a business is a partnership.
And you can also say, well, do not be unequally yoked. But how do you know your
(12:44):
partner might be adultery and pornography and all that stuff?
When Paul talks about unequally yoked, that's what he's referring to.
He's not referring to husband and wife. We've used it for husband and wife,
but it's more about other people,
like partnering with people or getting into business or being partners with
other people of different faiths. It will impact the business.
(13:08):
So God, in his mercy, obviously tells us, do not partner with the ungodly.
In other words, don't split.
Don't connect with them. But that doesn't mean that you can't work with people.
That's my point. In terms of partnership, to me, it's deeper.
Partnership, to me, is like husband and wife. Partnership means I am going to
(13:28):
be working on the same overall same mission.
Like sowing into a ministry? Sowing into a ministry?
Yeah. Well, everything is associated with, to me, partnership is more integral
versus when if i'm working with somebody i'm working with someone to achieve
the common objective so if i'm working with somebody i'm partnering with a guy
(13:50):
that does my my my landscaping in front of my house now i'm not sure what he
believes i don't care if he's an atheist whatever.
Is he fixing is he doing the good
job of fixing my my landscaping yes
or no and that's i'll just work with him to fix it
so we can say partnership i think partnership has to be linked to what is your
(14:16):
vision so if if it's to do with landscaping i don't need him to be a super christian
and following me in terms of partnership someone that does my are we meeting going towards now,
if if there's a lot of money and they i know they're going to be cheating me
i don't care what religion is technically speaking christians should be the
(14:36):
ones that are more trustworthy worthy, but that's not always the case.
But we should look for a Christian to partner with to do the landscaping if we possibly can.
I mean, look at other religions do that, like Jewish people will support Jewish
people, Muslim people will support Muslim people.
But not at the expense of the vision.
In other words, if they're going to do a bad job, then no.
(14:59):
You want to make the common – so if you go back to the original thing we spoke
about, which was the march.
Well, that was just one example. But notice the vision. The vision wasn't that
we want to convert the Muslims. Well, that was secondary for me.
Well, that's for you. But the main objective of that was working together to
(15:19):
bring down – so the faith's coming together to stop hurting the children.
That's the overall vision So we're working together to achieve that And also a lot of gays also.
Cited and came along So let's be clear It wasn't just a,
But there were a lot of Christians who were very upset They actually said we
(15:41):
are not working You're always working Working with Muslim people We're not standing
with them together It's wrong of you Christians to do this But you always get
those people that always Judge other people but they do nothing But that's why
it's controversial. No, but yes. How do you make a decision?
But again, just because we've been around as Christians for much of our lives,
(16:02):
and we've seen Christians that talk a lot, and they judge a lot, but they do nothing.
I find that the Christians that judge the most are the ones that do nothing.
They don't do anything. They can talk, but they do nothing. They're not helping
the poor. They're not furthering the gospel.
Look look at all all these hate uh i'm going to talk about benny hen well i'm
(16:27):
going to talk about or kenneth copeland they make all these documentaries but
if you look into their lives what are they doing for the poor what are they
doing about reaching the lost nothing their main objective is to criticize.
What others do. Others do. So what I'm saying is you're always going to get
these people. So the fact is you're not judging. You shouldn't be judging based
(16:47):
on what other so-called Christians say. No, no, no.
I'm just having a debate in my mind, which I often do, on these kinds of things.
Because even recently, another example, which is why I was thinking of this,
is I was recently helping someone in a by-election get them elected.
I know it's for the school board, and I know this person is not a Christian,
(17:08):
but I know the person is pro-life. life, completely pro-life.
And I actually met this person five years ago through pro-life activities.
And I asked this person, why were they pro? I just assumed they were Christian.
And this person told me specifically that they believed in pro-life because they saw the signs.
And they knew that in the womb, based on science, at the moment of conception,
(17:33):
that little creation is a baby. If it's a heartbeat, it's a human being.
It's the first person I've met who wasn't a Christian who believed that.
And I was really quite blown away.
And so I became friends with this person and recently helped them work on an
election campaign because I wanted to help them get elected.
But at the same time, I'm thinking, this person is not a Christian.
(17:56):
I know that this person isn't. And I didn't make a big deal to me.
I still wanted to help them.
And then I'm like, I have a second goal of obviously being a witness.
You know, I'm a witness at the same time. But then I'm like,
should I be spending my time on this?
Because, you know, so what I'm asking you is, how do you make that decision?
Because it's not a black and white in the Bible. It's not black and white for me.
(18:19):
So what is the principle? What are the scriptural principles to make choices
on how you partner with people or work with people on something and where you don't?
Like, how do you draw that line? For me, that's the controversy.
That's the controversial part.
Okay, so again, for me, Ed, maybe I'm being oversimplistic. And I'm overthinking?
(18:43):
Maybe. I'm just saying.
Is that what you're saying? Are you saying I'm overthinking this?
I don't think I'm overthinking it.
Well, I'm thinking that if we're talking about things that impact your journey
or your vision, your ultimate vision of your life, your life's vision.
Your life's vision is dictated with your spouse.
(19:04):
Your life's vision is dictated by the people Your close, close friends you partner
with Yeah Your life's vision is dictated to by somewhat your career Not in terms of more of Not really,
it provides funds for your direction So it's maybe
your friends and your spouse I think everything else is not necessarily the
(19:28):
partnership Like we're unequally yoked Because everyone in the scriptures worked
with different people of different faiths in some way to achieve a common objective.
And so I see that when you talk about partnership, very clear.
My vision, what's our family life's vision?
(19:51):
Doing something like gardening, that doesn't impact my life's vision.
Doing something like helping the kids.
Let me be clear For me it's not my life's vision My life's vision If every person on this planet,
Didn't abort their children Okay And they didn't abort their children And we
(20:12):
were successful in doing that I don't believe they're in that success,
If they didn't If Christ isn't glorified And people don't come to Christ,
Just like you could try and stop the whole world of doing evil.
But how can you, theoretically, because nobody can unless Christ is revealed.
(20:34):
So the thing about, for example, the partnering with the Muslims to stop the
radicalization of the children.
When they partnership, we're working with them for a finite time.
It didn't impact the personal, a personal life mission.
No, in actual fact, it just helped us represent Christ to a group of people
(20:58):
that we don't normally meet with.
Exactly. And it's an opportunity to witness to them so that it's sometimes good
to work together so that they, by your good conduct, even in the scripture it
talks about that when we work for our masters, we work unto the Lord.
And then by our good conduct that they may be saved.
So also talking about unbelievers. So we should be shining the light of Christ
(21:23):
wherever we are So obviously we're working with people of different beliefs, faiths, you name it,
We're working with them But notice we're not partnering with them in terms of
our life vision To me a partnership is a common life vision And our common life
vision is we're going to further the gospel as a family How are we going to
(21:45):
do that? What are we going to be doing?
And that's where we are completely transparent with one
another other or we should be more i know that
with god we're totally transparent with the spouse second most
and our very close friends the third most but we
shouldn't be transparent with everybody and i think that's
why we should not be unequally yoked because if you're unequally yoked and you
(22:05):
share your transparency with other people that's dangerous right the lord says
do not share your pearls before for pigs because they will bite you and dogs
could bite you and rent you.
So going back to simplicity. Even working to help the children in school,
(22:25):
that wasn't an overarching.
Life vision, but it was a good thing to do, and I think we should be doing good
work. Because the principle of Scripture is love your neighbor as yourself and
take care of the children.
And for those who teach, better they put a millstone around their neck,
like I'm standing up for my neighbors, because I believe that's what we're called to do in Scripture.
(22:45):
So based on what you're saying, it seems like there's an overarching,
Crutching, to work with other people of other faiths, it's a short-term purpose.
Long-term goal is always bring people to Jesus.
And it's based on scriptural principle, things that line up with scripture, to make that decision.
Yeah. Right? Yeah. But when it's an investing of your life and time and vision,
(23:10):
that needs to be a full-on Christian partnership, like when it comes to a spouse.
Close friends. Close friends. work going into business. Yeah.
Even going to business. I would say business. Well, when you say business.
Yeah, glad business. Because it impacts finances. If, for example,
the business goes south.
Will it impact your life vision in any way?
(23:33):
If it does, in other words, let's say you want to achieve and need finances
to achieve something in your life, but it's going to impact it.
Then your partnership is going to impact it. Therefore, you should be equally yoked.
So be very careful of who you partner with.
I look at partnership as, which a partnership to me impacts our life vision.
(23:55):
And it's only your spouse, close friends, and business partners.
Now, there could be a situation where you see, you know what,
I'm partnering with somebody, but I don't really care about the, doesn't really impact.
And there are people that will, they're called silent partners.
You partner with somebody and you give them, I don't know, X amount of dollars
to be partners with them. Like when you buy shares.
(24:18):
That's another group, yeah. But if, for example, you lose it,
does it impact, if it's going to impact it, then yes, maybe you shouldn't be giving the funds.
But if it doesn't impact you, like some people, some money doesn't really impact
them. So they just say, okay.
To me, then that's not necessarily a partnership that impacts life vision.
(24:39):
But if, for example, someone's investing, it's like when you loan money to somebody.
I was just going to ask. Loan money, buying shares in a company?
It's like loaning money to somebody.
You know our principle, right?
If we're giving money or loaning money to somebody. Don't expect it back.
If, for example, they don't give you your money back, how is your relationship
(25:00):
going to be impacted by them?
So in other words, if you are going to be angry with them or you're going to
hate them for not giving the money back, then it's best not to give.
So when you give it, have the mindset, I'm not going to get it back.
That's the amount that you give, right? Will you be okay giving X amount of
thousands of dollars to give to this person and they don't give it back? Right.
(25:23):
Because we want to guard ourselves in terms of partnership, right?
That's the thing is when you're blowing somebody money.
They do not impact your life vision. And it goes the same with stocks.
You don't want to be in a position where you make decisions that have an impact.
Yeah, what if you're buying stocks in companies and your money is now connected
(25:46):
to companies that are making poor choices?
Well, this is what we do, right?
Right. And it's like, remember, everybody probably, not everybody online doesn't
know, but I used to be, I was one of the first supporters of Facebook, right?
I was the one that I bought it around about $50 back in the day, $50 a share.
(26:08):
Now I know it's $500. I bought it 50 bucks a share, and I kept it until it got to about $180.
Great profits are made because I thought the company was doing great.
Christians were, like myself, was using the platform.
We used it to talk about wonderful works of Christ, all this kind of stuff.
And then they started censoring Christians and censoring conservative thinking
(26:34):
and promoting demonic things.
And by the way, same with Twitter, right? So guess what we did?
You sold it. You sold our shares right there when it started.
Started now obviously it went from 180 to
600 or 500 dollars now you
say well imagine if you kept it how much money you would have made i don't care
(26:56):
to me there's blood money i don't want it i don't want any but but at that time
i didn't know when i initially had it i didn't know but once i know i stopped
so that's another that's these other companies and there's other Other companies too,
you can say this company started well, bent off bad.
This one company started very bad and ended up pretty good. Now,
(27:19):
is there a perfect company?
If you look around, is there such a thing as a perfect company?
And I would say we all have issues. We're all working.
We're all playing our best. We all know and have knowledge of something directly
influencing that's against the will of God.
But when the company's mandate is specifically going against God,
(27:43):
for me, that's the key thing. It's not somebody that is sinning.
It's a company that is blatantly pushing the message track against God,
like Facebook was doing.
They were pushing against what God was doing.
Starbucks, another one, pushing abortion, right?
Pushing and hating Israel. Israel hating so many things going against the Bible.
(28:08):
And actually, if you look at it, it supports Satan.
Yeah. So I don't care if it goes 20 million times more than it is today.
I wouldn't put a cent in there because God will hold me accountable for the
money that I, because therefore I am sponsoring their action.
So when you say partnership, it's, it's, it's. Now.
(28:29):
I wouldn't say that's in terms of like re-partnership. I would say I'm used to it.
You're still sowing seed. It's like if you think of it in terms of the farming
concept, putting money into stocks or buying companies is still taking your
seed and putting it into ground.
Like if we invest in a – But it's not unequally yoked, the concept of being
unequally yoked, right, where unequally yoked means they influence you and you influence them.
(28:53):
That's not that. But your money is being attached to it.
Like why do we put money into good ministries? That sowing and reaping,
that's different. That's different because that's our tithes and offerings.
Yes. Yes, okay. Just so we clarify those people listening.
Yes. Because I'm sure if I'm having that thought, the other people must be having that thought.
So when it comes to tithes and offerings, that's an investment you're making
(29:14):
into ministries that are purposefully sowing the gospel. That is a partnership.
Well, also sowing and reaping doesn't necessarily mean tithing and offerings.
I'm talking about like you're buying, if you bought Facebook shares and you're
getting out of it, And that's just like I believe as a Christian that all your
resources belong to God, not just the 10%. Everything belongs to God.
(29:35):
And you're going to be accountable for everything because Yeshua is your Lord, your owner.
And he's going to say, what are you going to do with your funds?
Oh, I invested in evil and I promoted the evil and I supported the evil.
Or when I found out, I stopped and I shifted the funds and I sent it there, Lord.
Why? Because of this and this and this reason. And there's a reason So if you
(29:57):
have this mentality of I'm accountable to Yeshua And I'm accountable how I spend
my finances That's one thing The other thing about tithes and offerings That's
a separate topic in terms of Maybe we talk about that one day Yeah, like who do we give to?
Why do we give to certain ministries? Why don't we give to some other ministries?
How do we determine those things? So it sounds like To come back to the original
(30:18):
question And the controversy of When do you partner because of When do you partner
with other faiths because Christians are generally very tolerant people.
It seems like it comes to the same old answer that we have every week,
which is you need to pray and fast and ask the Lord and bring it back to the
(30:38):
principles of Scripture because you're not necessarily partnering with people
when you're working with them to achieve a common objective which lines up with Scripture.
Is that understanding your answer? Well, I didn't know if I said fasting of
praying. No, well, I mean, we talk about Christ in prayer anyway,
because you said when the Lord reveals things to you.
So you've got to ask, obviously, Lord, reveal to me if this is right or wrong.
(31:00):
Well, for me, it's like your spouse or close friends, evaluate your close friends.
That's why I love the COVID thing happening, because you could see how people responded.
And then sometimes when there's pressure on a situation, you can see who the
close friends are, how they respond when the pressure's on. Do they run or do they stay? Yeah.
(31:21):
And so, friends are important, and who you partner with, with the business,
anything that impacts your finances or your resources that impacts your life
mission, I think those are important.
And I think we should be continually living a life of prayer and fasting and
spending time in His Word, which reminds me, I didn't spend time in the Word
today, too. Okay, thank you for sharing that.
(31:45):
So, I thought there was going to be a quick one-minute answer.
It wasn't one minute, that was 30 minutes. Okay, so we're done, right?
Well, I don't know. Did you think we're done for the whole day?
Well, I don't know. Okay, so would you have invited different people to pray
at the Republican Convention?
Would I have invited other people to pray? For me, no.
(32:07):
But again, that's me. I would not have invited other people to pray.
But at the same time, the question is— It's not a church.
The Republican Convention isn't a church. Is the Republican,
is its mandate Christian mandate or is it a conservative mandate?
I think it's a political mandate, which they say is secular,
(32:27):
but I don't know if you can separate the two. But anyway.
So if it's conservative, it has nothing to do with Christ. And,
you know, it's everybody that has a conservative leaning, whatever they,
and as Christians, will partner with it.
I don't believe necessarily it has to be a Christian convention,
but I'd like to see more Christian influence in the convention.
(32:49):
What do you think? Well, initially I was a bit upset by it.
And likewise, I know other people were upset because you probably don't know
this person, Amber Rose.
I don't know. She was the one who was in a court case against Johnny Depp.
She's pretty well known for some sleazy things. And she's got 20 million followers.
And people were upset. Well, this is not the kind of – Amber Rose.
(33:12):
Amber Rose. She spoke at the convention.
Yeah, but was she against – Liberty. She grew up in a conservative home.
I think she had a – What about Johnny Depp again?
I don't know the detail. I didn't keep up with that stuff. But there was an
argument in the court case, a court case against him.
She said that he abused her. He was abusive.
And there was a whole court case. Amber Rose was that person.
(33:35):
She had a long relationship with Johnny Depp.
Oh, but she looked like she wasn't – Yeah, well, that's the point.
So many conservative people were like, why would you get someone like that to
speak at the convention?
Whereas I look at it and think, Amber Rose, she has 20 million followers.
She's come to her senses. She's realized, hang on, I've been brainwashed by these Democrats.
(33:56):
They've done nothing to help. My dad's a Marine. He always said to me,
just look it up. Just look for yourself.
Just go and look for yourself at the things Trump says versus what the media tells you.
She went and did a bit of research herself, and she came up with the realization,
hey, this guy actually does what he says.
He's pretty good. He's not racist. He's not all these other things.
She realized it was a big lie and she actually stood up at the convention and
(34:19):
spoke and I think she's biracial as well so you know people were upset that's
not the typical conservative person and I thought to myself.
Look that the conservatives are opening themselves up to say,
listen, we serve a common purpose here. We don't have to agree with everything
on every topic, but we have a common purpose.
(34:39):
But they're like, that's not a role model for our kids. But who said that every
person standing up has to be a role model for your kids?
The fact is that there's people who have been led astray like Amber Rose.
And if you are working towards the common purpose, that's what got me thinking about the whole topic.
If you are working towards a common goal, which is to get some kind of person,
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it's okay to work with them. But I still come back to the principles.
If it's not a Christian politician, I don't know if I really want that.
But anyway, that's a whole other topic.
So that's where I got to the place. So you said to me, what do I think?
I think that ultimately I think that we need Christian leaders in Christian positions.
But I also know that… What about the idea of mixing, you don't want to mix?
(35:25):
I don't believe in that. State and religion. I don't believe in that.
That's garbage because I look through the Scripture and I see that Moses was
– well, he was also a priest, but he had Aaron as his priest and he was the
leader, governor, whatever you want to call him.
David was a king and he had Nathan and Samuel as prophets.
The Israelites, right? The Israelites when they went out. King Solomon,
(35:47):
he had his – Yeah, but that's Israel.
I'm talking about from those of the world. But where else do I see? Anything in the church.
Yes, the early church. You had Herod.
You had Paul influencing the governors.
I mean, you've got to model it on what God's design was, and God's design is
clearly printed in Scripture.
(36:07):
He didn't want to have kings over. He wanted to have the governing and then the priest.
It doesn't mean you can't mix it because you have to have people with the same
principles, and the priests hold the governing authorities accountable,
and the governing authorities hold the priests.
No, they're not. No, they're accountable to the priests. No, they're not. They were.
(36:29):
David couldn't go in and sacrifice the lambs and ask for atonement for the people.
No, I thought you said that the priests were subjected to the governing.
Not subjected, but they influenced the decisions. They were there to keep the
king on track with what God— Yeah, I get that.
And so that's what the church should be doing. The church should be shaping
culture. The church should be keeping government accountable for the way that they behave.
(36:53):
I mean, even if you want to go to the kings and queens of yesteryear,
They had them and the Pope.
So you're saying that the Pope is— No, I'm not. I'm just talking about the concept
of when people say don't mix religion and politics.
And you can't because politics is what—they're making decisions and laws which affect the people.
(37:14):
Those laws should be based on Christian principles.
So you can't have—you can't separate it. What do you want? A person who stands
up and says they're a Christian versus a person who doesn't?
No, I'm going to vote for the Christian every time.
Just because they say they're a Christian? No, not because they say,
but if that's the coming down to the option, you know, because,
you know, at the end of the day, when they push, they're going to make a good decision.
(37:34):
So I don't believe that you should keep religion or Christianity out of politics.
No, because you're either choosing one religion or the other.
What do you think this transgender stuff is?
It's a religion. If you're not teaching about God, you're teaching about another
religion. You're teaching about the world. And that is a religion in itself.
They have their own things. They have their, you know, ways that you get accepted.
(37:58):
You have to show the flag. You have to, you know, come out as a certain person.
It's all their own religious stuff.
They have their disciples. They have their books.
So it's a religion. It's a religion. So don't come with me that it's secular.
I don't even believe there's really such a thing.
Okay. So we just want to summarize what we're going to talk about today.
(38:21):
You mean what we have spoken about? Yeah, what we've spoken about.
But if you summarize it, it's really talking about how do we know who to partner with?
And or when we partner with people, what's the difference between partnering
with them and working with them? As Christians with non-Christians.
And I think the example or the main underlying topic that drove this discussion
(38:42):
was the Sikh praying at the convention.
And initially the idea was, oh, the convention is a Christian convention.
Convention Y is a Sikh praying, but if the mindset is, oh no,
the convention is actually just a conservative convention and Christians are,
the more Christians that we have in there, the better, then it wouldn't be a success.
(39:06):
Because the mindset is, oh Christian equals conservative, therefore it didn't
match, therefore we were upset, but if we, well some people were upset,
but if the idea is that it's a.
A secular thing anyway, and the more Christians that we have in this is a good
thing, then it was a success because most people were Christians that were speaking
(39:28):
in the convention. There was one or two, maybe even three that I know of that maybe weren't.
Well, it was like when they had that big Christian men's conference and the
guy was out there stripping. Why was I upset?
Well, that was in a church. That's my point because it was called out as a Christian men's conference.
The RNC is not the Christian Republican National Convention. No, it's not.
(39:51):
Right. So for me, that's what's triggered it. And then I started thinking,
okay, well, when do you draw the line?
That's when I got into the Million Dollar March because you know that I worked
with Muslims on that as a Christian. And I was criticized by many Christians for getting involved.
And I know many Christians who wouldn't refuse, and especially after what happened
in Israel on October 7th. They're like, see, we should never have worked with the Muslims.
(40:14):
And I think actually that was a satanic thing because you could see the Christians
and Muslims were starting to work together. And then there was the whole topic
of when you're working with – it just started me on the ball rolling of when is it okay to partner.
So in summary, that was really the issue. When do you partner and when do you
not partner with people who call themselves Christians?
(40:35):
Because also you're making money and business with non-Christians, right?
Yeah, so hopefully this has given some food for thought. Well,
had you thought about this?
Obviously not. But now you think about it.
No, but I have thought about it. And that's why I said in the beginning,
to me, I have more of a simplistic view of this. I still think I'm overthinking it.
You know, I'm thinking it's good to be able to have a discussion. It is controversial.
(40:57):
Yeah, and I think it's good to have this discussion because I think sometimes we look at the term.
Unequally yoked and we paint everything with the same brush.
And sometimes when we give our money, we sometimes paint everything with the same brush.
So it's sometimes looking at specifically what's the context of the scripture.
I know we didn't do that and it wasn't the intent, but it's how we think through.
Well, I think we expressed the details on unequally yoked, that we clarified that.
(41:22):
And then I think we do need to have a separate discussion on tithes and offerings,
how that works. Yeah. Okay, beautiful.
You want to pray for us? Am I praying? Yeah. Okay.
Heavenly Father, we come before you, Lord. As always, Lord, we pray that our
words are honoring to you, our actions are respecting what your word has taught
us, Lord, and that we are teaching correctly.
(41:45):
So, Lord, if there's any error in our thoughts, I pray that you give us clarity.
And I pray for all those listening, Lord, that you would help them as always.
Holy Spirit, you would direct them and direct us to make the right decisions
visions on where we are partnering with people, where we are being yoked,
where we are working with others.
Lord, that it may glorify you. And at the end, the overall vision of bringing
(42:09):
people to know you and your son, Lord, we pray that you would reveal this to all of us.
And we, as always, are so grateful for your wisdom.
I pray this in the mighty name of your son, Yeshua. Amen. Amen.
Hello. Good morning, good morning, good morning. It would be a better afternoon today.
I know, but you always go, good morning, good morning, good morning.
So I thought I would go, good morning, good morning, good morning.
Good afternoon doesn't sound as good. Okay. How are you doing? Have you got a topic?
I actually have a few big topics. Oh no, I've got a topic.
(00:22):
Okay, I'll share mine and then you tell me if yours is any more controversial than mine. Okay.
Okay, I was thinking of – I'm going to give you two and you give me your two.
I've only got one, one big one. Okay, so the one I'm thinking about,
obviously the one that's on the wall is obviously Trump, Biden,
Trump's assassination, the inside job, Biden, the moon landing or not landing.
(00:47):
He's done the moon landing.
Okay, I'm talking about Trump and Biden specifically and how the CIA – So what's
he going to do with the moon landing?
Well, how the CIA is behind all of this.
Okay, so – including this attempted assassination and how God foiled their plans.
So that's one. How controversial is that? What's controversial about it?
(01:08):
Well, it's controversial to many people.
Many people think, you know, that's not the case. It's isolated.
It's actually just that if you look at all media sources, they talk about this
boy, this guy. They don't say anything.
Why was – where's the Secret Service? Where were they?
They don't talk about any of that. They're just focusing on this boy mainly,
(01:30):
right? So that's why I'm talking about the controversial side.
That's one. The second one is….
You always heard, when you've been as a Christian for a long time,
you've heard of different deliverances, right?
You've heard of things like Mark Winkler's, where he delivers people,
or the Sozo technique, or there's different deliverances.
(01:54):
So is deliverance a biblical thing or not?
And if it is, is there any biblical support?
And if not, then why do people do that?
So that's a topic about deliverance I know we covered it last time,
Briefly but the question was The question was
(02:14):
Does it come from scripture And what does
it sound like And so if someone was listening How would they do a I want to
call this a self deliverance Yourself and how do you know if you have Demonic
spirits Affecting you right Which is controversial because many people in the
body of Christ Don't believe Christians can be
(02:35):
demonized or suppressed by the enemy.
Okay. So that was a topic. So those are the two things I had. So what did you have?
Well, I think the first one that we can sort out in a couple minutes if we want to talk about that.
And the second one I think is definitely worth talking about.
Today, we could even maybe do it on the second half of my topic I have.
And my topic was really something I've been pondering. and I have three examples
(03:00):
of how one makes a decision to do something that's right. And let me give you context.
So we live in a world where the most free society are the Western countries,
which are founded on Judeo-Christian principles. Would you agree?
(03:22):
Like, for example, if someone was a homosexual in Muslim countries,
head chopped off, hung, imprisoned, whipped.
Or thrown off a building. Thrown off a building. If someone doesn't follow a
religion in certain other religious countries, Muslim countries or Buddhist
or Hindu, they're isolated, they're targeted, they're persecuted.
(03:43):
As we know, Christians are persecuted in other countries, whereas Muslims,
Buddhists, Hindus are not persecuted in traditionally historic Christian countries.
So my question is – so I've got an example this week where at the Republican
National Convention, which I just happened to glance at, there was a Sikh woman who prayed.
A Sikh or a Hindu? No, she was Sikh. Oh, okay. And she prayed out loud.
(04:06):
She's very prominent in the Republican Party.
They had Christian people praying. But then you have situations like last year
when we did the Million People March and Christians collaborated with Muslims as parents.
We stood together against the transgender and the indoctrination of children in schools.
(04:29):
So my question with that background is,
when is it right to collaborate or work with other people from other faiths
to win them over versus saying, no, it needs to be Christian and Christian only?
Do you understand my topic?
(04:50):
Yeah, I'm just trying to put it into one sentence. Oh, one sentence.
My controversial topic can be one sentence.
No, what I'm saying is… Oh, the topic. The question, because once you can get
the question or define the question.
I know, but I had to give the background for you to understand where the thought process came from.
So could you summarize it into one question that we can wrestle through?
(05:10):
So one sentence would be, given that our mandate from Christ is to go into all
the world and preach the gospel.
Given that the Bible also says do not be unequally yoked,
how does one make a decision when to
collaborate work with interact partner with
people of other faith versus keeping things
(05:31):
exclusively christian when one when one doesn't when it follows the scriptures
in other words you're not unequally yoked in other words you you realize that
you firstly you acknowledge you're not equally yoked and you work so you don't
break the biblical principles,
and yet you work with somebody else to achieve a common objective.
(05:53):
So this is very similar to what happened in the Holocaust and in Nazi Germany,
when the Christians partnered with Jewish people, the same Jewish people that
rejected Christ as their Lord and Savior,
they partnered with them in order to help them. So they're,
It was a sense of helping people with a common objective of,
(06:18):
so for example, what- What was the overarching objective?
What Christian principles did they break? They showed love.
They set people, the captives free. Well, they never broke them.
You said what Christian principles did they break?
Well, that's what I'm saying. They didn't break any Christian principles and
they set the captives free. Yeah.
So they worked with them. Yeah. But they didn't go and become Jewish, right?
(06:41):
They didn't go – I'm not sure if some people maybe wore a star or didn't wear
a star for a specific purpose in order to infiltrate, to go and help them.
So the principle was to protect the lives of Jewish people. Of people. Just people, humanity.
People that are made in God, I mean, protect them. Because the Bible does say
that we are to defend the fatherless and the orphans.
(07:01):
So I think if – now, if, for example, they would say something like, okay, well,
let's say we need to join forces and we need to kill or do something bad against
the word of God, then we should not do that, right?
But say, for example, at the Republican National Convention,
(07:21):
like I'm very clear I'm a strong Christian.
But let's go back to the other one first before we get – that's a little more tougher.
The transgender You
mean go to the million dollar march The million dollar march Is organized
by a Muslim In partnership with
Christians It was a Muslim leader And he
(07:42):
was the only one That had the I want to use that To stand up against the media
And the indoctrination Which is fantastic What we as Christians should be doing
Because this is our country founded on Judea you know, Judeo-Christian principles.
Well, the people will say, well.
The country belonged to people before. Well, okay. Okay, so as we need to say,
(08:07):
found it on. We're talking about the system.
The system of the freedom that everybody's enjoying. The reason why people are
leaving other countries and coming to the places like here is because of the
Christian-Judaic principle.
No one's fleeing to go to Muslim countries. No one's fleeing to go to Buddhist-rich
countries. Or Hindu. Yeah. Why is that?
But people are sometimes too blind to see that the reason why they're doing
(08:31):
it is because of the freedom.
Because they don't understand that the true peace doesn't come from Islam,
from Buddhism or Hindus. It comes from Christ.
Because recognizing that people are individuals uniquely made in God's image.
That is why you'll find… Not God's children, right? Not God's children.
(08:52):
Made in God's image, which means you respect everybody.
You allow them to make their own choices. You don't force them.
It's amazing that Islam indoctrinates, they force, they basically put the foot
on somebody's neck in order to convert.
And if they don't convert, they will kill that person for converting,
going away from Islam. Hindu is not much different.
(09:12):
And same with Buddhism. Buddhism, actually, everybody says, well,
Buddhism focuses on happiness. No, it doesn't. It focuses on avoid suffering.
Yeah, so it's cloaked in this image of happiness, peace, but it's not.
So the point is that if you look at the Judeo-Christian countries,
they will say, okay, you can be an atheist.
(09:36):
And we will still love you and allow you to have your freedom of expression.
We'll not allow you, but what's the word? We tolerate, we accept,
we love because we recognize people as human beings and individuals.
And even homosexuals, it's like you make a choice.
You're making a choice in your lifestyle. We don't agree with that lifestyle making a choice.
But here's another thing. Somebody said to me this week, oh,
(09:59):
it's okay to go to a church that has the transgender rainbow LGBTQ one plus
flag. That's not a rainbow flag. I don't want to call it rainbow.
But you know the flag I'm talking about. It's okay to put that outside a church
because it's showing love to the people.
It's showing that you're welcome to come in and to be accepted and loved by Christ.
(10:19):
So how come that's not okay? And I said, if you go to a building that is called
a church, as in founded on the principles of the Bible, and they have any flag
like that outside their church, I'm like, you run in the opposite direction.
You get your butt out of there as fast as possible. That is not a church. That's a social club.
Catherine, that is so intolerant. That is so hateful.
(10:45):
I'm like, no, that's not hateful.
I'm telling you, if you call yourself a Christian, those are not.
It's the same as if somebody went and put up a Playboy flag.
If your church has got a Playboy flag outside, I would say run in the opposite direction too.
If your church has got a Nazi flag or a pirate flag or even a Republican flag
(11:05):
or a Democratic flag, any flag, you run the opposite direction.
Your church should not be standing up for man-made things. It's standing up
for what the principles of Christ say.
So are you saying then. So I know I'm getting very feisty here,
but it's like, at what point do you make a decision?
Because when I said she told you about the Republican convention,
that Sikh praying, I actually felt a little upset that she prayed.
(11:27):
But when I thought about it afterwards, I actually went back on that and I thought….
I don't want to hear her pray to another God, so I can choose to switch that off.
But at the same time, there's a common goal here. Now, I do believe the Sikh
religion is an offshoot of Christianity and they've got lost.
That's neither here nor there.
The fact is, I don't know if she's praying to Jesus and God the Father,
(11:51):
but you want to unite people on a common goal because there are principles of right and wrong.
And so then that's when I started thinking, well, when is it right to partner
with other people of different faiths? They've made a choice.
And so where is the line in the sand? That's the controversial part.
Where is the line in the sand?
Well, I think you just said the word partner, and I think we need to define what partner is.
(12:20):
So, for example, a husband and wife is a partner, but that is forever,
right? So husband and wife, forever partner.
The Bible's very clear on that, Devin. Okay, so when you say partner,
the question is what level of partnership we're talking about.
When we're having a business, there's a partnership.
So even that with a business. So a business is a partnership.
And you can also say, well, do not be unequally yoked. But how do you know your
(12:44):
partner might be adultery and pornography and all that stuff?
When Paul talks about unequally yoked, that's what he's referring to.
He's not referring to husband and wife. We've used it for husband and wife,
but it's more about other people,
like partnering with people or getting into business or being partners with
other people of different faiths. It will impact the business.
(13:08):
So God, in his mercy, obviously tells us, do not partner with the ungodly.
In other words, don't split.
Don't connect with them. But that doesn't mean that you can't work with people.
That's my point. In terms of partnership, to me, it's deeper.
Partnership, to me, is like husband and wife. Partnership means I am going to
(13:28):
be working on the same overall same mission.
Like sowing into a ministry? Sowing into a ministry?
Yeah. Well, everything is associated with, to me, partnership is more integral
versus when if i'm working with somebody i'm working with someone to achieve
the common objective so if i'm working with somebody i'm partnering with a guy
(13:50):
that does my my my landscaping in front of my house now i'm not sure what he
believes i don't care if he's an atheist whatever.
Is he fixing is he doing the good
job of fixing my my landscaping yes
or no and that's i'll just work with him to fix it
so we can say partnership i think partnership has to be linked to what is your
(14:16):
vision so if if it's to do with landscaping i don't need him to be a super christian
and following me in terms of partnership someone that does my are we meeting going towards now,
if if there's a lot of money and they i know they're going to be cheating me
i don't care what religion is technically speaking christians should be the
(14:36):
ones that are more trustworthy worthy, but that's not always the case.
But we should look for a Christian to partner with to do the landscaping if we possibly can.
I mean, look at other religions do that, like Jewish people will support Jewish
people, Muslim people will support Muslim people.
But not at the expense of the vision.
In other words, if they're going to do a bad job, then no.
(14:59):
You want to make the common – so if you go back to the original thing we spoke
about, which was the march.
Well, that was just one example. But notice the vision. The vision wasn't that
we want to convert the Muslims. Well, that was secondary for me.
Well, that's for you. But the main objective of that was working together to
(15:19):
bring down – so the faith's coming together to stop hurting the children.
That's the overall vision So we're working together to achieve that And also a lot of gays also.
Cited and came along So let's be clear It wasn't just a,
But there were a lot of Christians who were very upset They actually said we
(15:41):
are not working You're always working Working with Muslim people We're not standing
with them together It's wrong of you Christians to do this But you always get
those people that always Judge other people but they do nothing But that's why
it's controversial. No, but yes. How do you make a decision?
But again, just because we've been around as Christians for much of our lives,
(16:02):
and we've seen Christians that talk a lot, and they judge a lot, but they do nothing.
I find that the Christians that judge the most are the ones that do nothing.
They don't do anything. They can talk, but they do nothing. They're not helping
the poor. They're not furthering the gospel.
Look look at all all these hate uh i'm going to talk about benny hen well i'm
(16:27):
going to talk about or kenneth copeland they make all these documentaries but
if you look into their lives what are they doing for the poor what are they
doing about reaching the lost nothing their main objective is to criticize.
What others do. Others do. So what I'm saying is you're always going to get
these people. So the fact is you're not judging. You shouldn't be judging based
(16:47):
on what other so-called Christians say. No, no, no.
I'm just having a debate in my mind, which I often do, on these kinds of things.
Because even recently, another example, which is why I was thinking of this,
is I was recently helping someone in a by-election get them elected.
I know it's for the school board, and I know this person is not a Christian,
(17:08):
but I know the person is pro-life. life, completely pro-life.
And I actually met this person five years ago through pro-life activities.
And I asked this person, why were they pro? I just assumed they were Christian.
And this person told me specifically that they believed in pro-life because they saw the signs.
And they knew that in the womb, based on science, at the moment of conception,
(17:33):
that little creation is a baby. If it's a heartbeat, it's a human being.
It's the first person I've met who wasn't a Christian who believed that.
And I was really quite blown away.
And so I became friends with this person and recently helped them work on an
election campaign because I wanted to help them get elected.
But at the same time, I'm thinking, this person is not a Christian.
(17:56):
I know that this person isn't. And I didn't make a big deal to me.
I still wanted to help them.
And then I'm like, I have a second goal of obviously being a witness.
You know, I'm a witness at the same time. But then I'm like,
should I be spending my time on this?
Because, you know, so what I'm asking you is, how do you make that decision?
Because it's not a black and white in the Bible. It's not black and white for me.
(18:19):
So what is the principle? What are the scriptural principles to make choices
on how you partner with people or work with people on something and where you don't?
Like, how do you draw that line? For me, that's the controversy.
That's the controversial part.
Okay, so again, for me, Ed, maybe I'm being oversimplistic. And I'm overthinking?
(18:43):
Maybe. I'm just saying.
Is that what you're saying? Are you saying I'm overthinking this?
I don't think I'm overthinking it.
Well, I'm thinking that if we're talking about things that impact your journey
or your vision, your ultimate vision of your life, your life's vision.
Your life's vision is dictated with your spouse.
(19:04):
Your life's vision is dictated by the people Your close, close friends you partner
with Yeah Your life's vision is dictated to by somewhat your career Not in terms of more of Not really,
it provides funds for your direction So it's maybe
your friends and your spouse I think everything else is not necessarily the
(19:28):
partnership Like we're unequally yoked Because everyone in the scriptures worked
with different people of different faiths in some way to achieve a common objective.
And so I see that when you talk about partnership, very clear.
My vision, what's our family life's vision?
(19:51):
Doing something like gardening, that doesn't impact my life's vision.
Doing something like helping the kids.
Let me be clear For me it's not my life's vision My life's vision If every person on this planet,
Didn't abort their children Okay And they didn't abort their children And we
(20:12):
were successful in doing that I don't believe they're in that success,
If they didn't If Christ isn't glorified And people don't come to Christ,
Just like you could try and stop the whole world of doing evil.
But how can you, theoretically, because nobody can unless Christ is revealed.
(20:34):
So the thing about, for example, the partnering with the Muslims to stop the
radicalization of the children.
When they partnership, we're working with them for a finite time.
It didn't impact the personal, a personal life mission.
No, in actual fact, it just helped us represent Christ to a group of people
(20:58):
that we don't normally meet with.
Exactly. And it's an opportunity to witness to them so that it's sometimes good
to work together so that they, by your good conduct, even in the scripture it
talks about that when we work for our masters, we work unto the Lord.
And then by our good conduct that they may be saved.
So also talking about unbelievers. So we should be shining the light of Christ
(21:23):
wherever we are So obviously we're working with people of different beliefs, faiths, you name it,
We're working with them But notice we're not partnering with them in terms of
our life vision To me a partnership is a common life vision And our common life
vision is we're going to further the gospel as a family How are we going to
(21:45):
do that? What are we going to be doing?
And that's where we are completely transparent with one
another other or we should be more i know that
with god we're totally transparent with the spouse second most
and our very close friends the third most but we
shouldn't be transparent with everybody and i think that's
why we should not be unequally yoked because if you're unequally yoked and you
(22:05):
share your transparency with other people that's dangerous right the lord says
do not share your pearls before for pigs because they will bite you and dogs
could bite you and rent you.
So going back to simplicity. Even working to help the children in school,
(22:25):
that wasn't an overarching.
Life vision, but it was a good thing to do, and I think we should be doing good
work. Because the principle of Scripture is love your neighbor as yourself and
take care of the children.
And for those who teach, better they put a millstone around their neck,
like I'm standing up for my neighbors, because I believe that's what we're called to do in Scripture.
(22:45):
So based on what you're saying, it seems like there's an overarching,
Crutching, to work with other people of other faiths, it's a short-term purpose.
Long-term goal is always bring people to Jesus.
And it's based on scriptural principle, things that line up with scripture, to make that decision.
Yeah. Right? Yeah. But when it's an investing of your life and time and vision,
(23:10):
that needs to be a full-on Christian partnership, like when it comes to a spouse.
Close friends. Close friends. work going into business. Yeah.
Even going to business. I would say business. Well, when you say business.
Yeah, glad business. Because it impacts finances. If, for example,
the business goes south.
Will it impact your life vision in any way?
(23:33):
If it does, in other words, let's say you want to achieve and need finances
to achieve something in your life, but it's going to impact it.
Then your partnership is going to impact it. Therefore, you should be equally yoked.
So be very careful of who you partner with.
I look at partnership as, which a partnership to me impacts our life vision.
(23:55):
And it's only your spouse, close friends, and business partners.
Now, there could be a situation where you see, you know what,
I'm partnering with somebody, but I don't really care about the, doesn't really impact.
And there are people that will, they're called silent partners.
You partner with somebody and you give them, I don't know, X amount of dollars
to be partners with them. Like when you buy shares.
(24:18):
That's another group, yeah. But if, for example, you lose it,
does it impact, if it's going to impact it, then yes, maybe you shouldn't be giving the funds.
But if it doesn't impact you, like some people, some money doesn't really impact
them. So they just say, okay.
To me, then that's not necessarily a partnership that impacts life vision.
(24:39):
But if, for example, someone's investing, it's like when you loan money to somebody.
I was just going to ask. Loan money, buying shares in a company?
It's like loaning money to somebody.
You know our principle, right?
If we're giving money or loaning money to somebody. Don't expect it back.
If, for example, they don't give you your money back, how is your relationship
(25:00):
going to be impacted by them?
So in other words, if you are going to be angry with them or you're going to
hate them for not giving the money back, then it's best not to give.
So when you give it, have the mindset, I'm not going to get it back.
That's the amount that you give, right? Will you be okay giving X amount of
thousands of dollars to give to this person and they don't give it back? Right.
(25:23):
Because we want to guard ourselves in terms of partnership, right?
That's the thing is when you're blowing somebody money.
They do not impact your life vision. And it goes the same with stocks.
You don't want to be in a position where you make decisions that have an impact.
Yeah, what if you're buying stocks in companies and your money is now connected
(25:46):
to companies that are making poor choices?
Well, this is what we do, right?
Right. And it's like, remember, everybody probably, not everybody online doesn't
know, but I used to be, I was one of the first supporters of Facebook, right?
I was the one that I bought it around about $50 back in the day, $50 a share.
(26:08):
Now I know it's $500. I bought it 50 bucks a share, and I kept it until it got to about $180.
Great profits are made because I thought the company was doing great.
Christians were, like myself, was using the platform.
We used it to talk about wonderful works of Christ, all this kind of stuff.
And then they started censoring Christians and censoring conservative thinking
(26:34):
and promoting demonic things.
And by the way, same with Twitter, right? So guess what we did?
You sold it. You sold our shares right there when it started.
Started now obviously it went from 180 to
600 or 500 dollars now you
say well imagine if you kept it how much money you would have made i don't care
(26:56):
to me there's blood money i don't want it i don't want any but but at that time
i didn't know when i initially had it i didn't know but once i know i stopped
so that's another that's these other companies and there's other Other companies too,
you can say this company started well, bent off bad.
This one company started very bad and ended up pretty good. Now,
(27:19):
is there a perfect company?
If you look around, is there such a thing as a perfect company?
And I would say we all have issues. We're all working.
We're all playing our best. We all know and have knowledge of something directly
influencing that's against the will of God.
But when the company's mandate is specifically going against God,
(27:43):
for me, that's the key thing. It's not somebody that is sinning.
It's a company that is blatantly pushing the message track against God,
like Facebook was doing.
They were pushing against what God was doing.
Starbucks, another one, pushing abortion, right?
Pushing and hating Israel. Israel hating so many things going against the Bible.
(28:08):
And actually, if you look at it, it supports Satan.
Yeah. So I don't care if it goes 20 million times more than it is today.
I wouldn't put a cent in there because God will hold me accountable for the
money that I, because therefore I am sponsoring their action.
So when you say partnership, it's, it's, it's. Now.
(28:29):
I wouldn't say that's in terms of like re-partnership. I would say I'm used to it.
You're still sowing seed. It's like if you think of it in terms of the farming
concept, putting money into stocks or buying companies is still taking your
seed and putting it into ground.
Like if we invest in a – But it's not unequally yoked, the concept of being
unequally yoked, right, where unequally yoked means they influence you and you influence them.
(28:53):
That's not that. But your money is being attached to it.
Like why do we put money into good ministries? That sowing and reaping,
that's different. That's different because that's our tithes and offerings.
Yes. Yes, okay. Just so we clarify those people listening.
Yes. Because I'm sure if I'm having that thought, the other people must be having that thought.
So when it comes to tithes and offerings, that's an investment you're making
(29:14):
into ministries that are purposefully sowing the gospel. That is a partnership.
Well, also sowing and reaping doesn't necessarily mean tithing and offerings.
I'm talking about like you're buying, if you bought Facebook shares and you're
getting out of it, And that's just like I believe as a Christian that all your
resources belong to God, not just the 10%. Everything belongs to God.
(29:35):
And you're going to be accountable for everything because Yeshua is your Lord, your owner.
And he's going to say, what are you going to do with your funds?
Oh, I invested in evil and I promoted the evil and I supported the evil.
Or when I found out, I stopped and I shifted the funds and I sent it there, Lord.
Why? Because of this and this and this reason. And there's a reason So if you
(29:57):
have this mentality of I'm accountable to Yeshua And I'm accountable how I spend
my finances That's one thing The other thing about tithes and offerings That's
a separate topic in terms of Maybe we talk about that one day Yeah, like who do we give to?
Why do we give to certain ministries? Why don't we give to some other ministries?
How do we determine those things? So it sounds like To come back to the original
(30:18):
question And the controversy of When do you partner because of When do you partner
with other faiths because Christians are generally very tolerant people.
It seems like it comes to the same old answer that we have every week,
which is you need to pray and fast and ask the Lord and bring it back to the
(30:38):
principles of Scripture because you're not necessarily partnering with people
when you're working with them to achieve a common objective which lines up with Scripture.
Is that understanding your answer? Well, I didn't know if I said fasting of
praying. No, well, I mean, we talk about Christ in prayer anyway,
because you said when the Lord reveals things to you.
So you've got to ask, obviously, Lord, reveal to me if this is right or wrong.
(31:00):
Well, for me, it's like your spouse or close friends, evaluate your close friends.
That's why I love the COVID thing happening, because you could see how people responded.
And then sometimes when there's pressure on a situation, you can see who the
close friends are, how they respond when the pressure's on. Do they run or do they stay? Yeah.
(31:21):
And so, friends are important, and who you partner with, with the business,
anything that impacts your finances or your resources that impacts your life
mission, I think those are important.
And I think we should be continually living a life of prayer and fasting and
spending time in His Word, which reminds me, I didn't spend time in the Word
today, too. Okay, thank you for sharing that.
(31:45):
So, I thought there was going to be a quick one-minute answer.
It wasn't one minute, that was 30 minutes. Okay, so we're done, right?
Well, I don't know. Did you think we're done for the whole day?
Well, I don't know. Okay, so would you have invited different people to pray
at the Republican Convention?
Would I have invited other people to pray? For me, no.
(32:07):
But again, that's me. I would not have invited other people to pray.
But at the same time, the question is— It's not a church.
The Republican Convention isn't a church. Is the Republican,
is its mandate Christian mandate or is it a conservative mandate?
I think it's a political mandate, which they say is secular,
(32:27):
but I don't know if you can separate the two. But anyway.
So if it's conservative, it has nothing to do with Christ. And,
you know, it's everybody that has a conservative leaning, whatever they,
and as Christians, will partner with it.
I don't believe necessarily it has to be a Christian convention,
but I'd like to see more Christian influence in the convention.
(32:49):
What do you think? Well, initially I was a bit upset by it.
And likewise, I know other people were upset because you probably don't know
this person, Amber Rose.
I don't know. She was the one who was in a court case against Johnny Depp.
She's pretty well known for some sleazy things. And she's got 20 million followers.
And people were upset. Well, this is not the kind of – Amber Rose.
(33:12):
Amber Rose. She spoke at the convention.
Yeah, but was she against – Liberty. She grew up in a conservative home.
I think she had a – What about Johnny Depp again?
I don't know the detail. I didn't keep up with that stuff. But there was an
argument in the court case, a court case against him.
She said that he abused her. He was abusive.
And there was a whole court case. Amber Rose was that person.
(33:35):
She had a long relationship with Johnny Depp.
Oh, but she looked like she wasn't – Yeah, well, that's the point.
So many conservative people were like, why would you get someone like that to
speak at the convention?
Whereas I look at it and think, Amber Rose, she has 20 million followers.
She's come to her senses. She's realized, hang on, I've been brainwashed by these Democrats.
(33:56):
They've done nothing to help. My dad's a Marine. He always said to me,
just look it up. Just look for yourself.
Just go and look for yourself at the things Trump says versus what the media tells you.
She went and did a bit of research herself, and she came up with the realization,
hey, this guy actually does what he says.
He's pretty good. He's not racist. He's not all these other things.
She realized it was a big lie and she actually stood up at the convention and
(34:19):
spoke and I think she's biracial as well so you know people were upset that's
not the typical conservative person and I thought to myself.
Look that the conservatives are opening themselves up to say,
listen, we serve a common purpose here. We don't have to agree with everything
on every topic, but we have a common purpose.
(34:39):
But they're like, that's not a role model for our kids. But who said that every
person standing up has to be a role model for your kids?
The fact is that there's people who have been led astray like Amber Rose.
And if you are working towards the common purpose, that's what got me thinking about the whole topic.
If you are working towards a common goal, which is to get some kind of person,
(35:01):
it's okay to work with them. But I still come back to the principles.
If it's not a Christian politician, I don't know if I really want that.
But anyway, that's a whole other topic.
So that's where I got to the place. So you said to me, what do I think?
I think that ultimately I think that we need Christian leaders in Christian positions.
But I also know that… What about the idea of mixing, you don't want to mix?
(35:25):
I don't believe in that. State and religion. I don't believe in that.
That's garbage because I look through the Scripture and I see that Moses was
– well, he was also a priest, but he had Aaron as his priest and he was the
leader, governor, whatever you want to call him.
David was a king and he had Nathan and Samuel as prophets.
The Israelites, right? The Israelites when they went out. King Solomon,
(35:47):
he had his – Yeah, but that's Israel.
I'm talking about from those of the world. But where else do I see? Anything in the church.
Yes, the early church. You had Herod.
You had Paul influencing the governors.
I mean, you've got to model it on what God's design was, and God's design is
clearly printed in Scripture.
(36:07):
He didn't want to have kings over. He wanted to have the governing and then the priest.
It doesn't mean you can't mix it because you have to have people with the same
principles, and the priests hold the governing authorities accountable,
and the governing authorities hold the priests.
No, they're not. No, they're accountable to the priests. No, they're not. They were.
(36:29):
David couldn't go in and sacrifice the lambs and ask for atonement for the people.
No, I thought you said that the priests were subjected to the governing.
Not subjected, but they influenced the decisions. They were there to keep the
king on track with what God— Yeah, I get that.
And so that's what the church should be doing. The church should be shaping
culture. The church should be keeping government accountable for the way that they behave.
(36:53):
I mean, even if you want to go to the kings and queens of yesteryear,
They had them and the Pope.
So you're saying that the Pope is— No, I'm not. I'm just talking about the concept
of when people say don't mix religion and politics.
And you can't because politics is what—they're making decisions and laws which affect the people.
(37:14):
Those laws should be based on Christian principles.
So you can't have—you can't separate it. What do you want? A person who stands
up and says they're a Christian versus a person who doesn't?
No, I'm going to vote for the Christian every time.
Just because they say they're a Christian? No, not because they say,
but if that's the coming down to the option, you know, because,
you know, at the end of the day, when they push, they're going to make a good decision.
(37:34):
So I don't believe that you should keep religion or Christianity out of politics.
No, because you're either choosing one religion or the other.
What do you think this transgender stuff is?
It's a religion. If you're not teaching about God, you're teaching about another
religion. You're teaching about the world. And that is a religion in itself.
They have their own things. They have their, you know, ways that you get accepted.
(37:58):
You have to show the flag. You have to, you know, come out as a certain person.
It's all their own religious stuff.
They have their disciples. They have their books.
So it's a religion. It's a religion. So don't come with me that it's secular.
I don't even believe there's really such a thing.
Okay. So we just want to summarize what we're going to talk about today.
(38:21):
You mean what we have spoken about? Yeah, what we've spoken about.
But if you summarize it, it's really talking about how do we know who to partner with?
And or when we partner with people, what's the difference between partnering
with them and working with them? As Christians with non-Christians.
And I think the example or the main underlying topic that drove this discussion
(38:42):
was the Sikh praying at the convention.
And initially the idea was, oh, the convention is a Christian convention.
Convention Y is a Sikh praying, but if the mindset is, oh no,
the convention is actually just a conservative convention and Christians are,
the more Christians that we have in there, the better, then it wouldn't be a success.
(39:06):
Because the mindset is, oh Christian equals conservative, therefore it didn't
match, therefore we were upset, but if we, well some people were upset,
but if the idea is that it's a.
A secular thing anyway, and the more Christians that we have in this is a good
thing, then it was a success because most people were Christians that were speaking
(39:28):
in the convention. There was one or two, maybe even three that I know of that maybe weren't.
Well, it was like when they had that big Christian men's conference and the
guy was out there stripping. Why was I upset?
Well, that was in a church. That's my point because it was called out as a Christian men's conference.
The RNC is not the Christian Republican National Convention. No, it's not.
(39:51):
Right. So for me, that's what's triggered it. And then I started thinking,
okay, well, when do you draw the line?
That's when I got into the Million Dollar March because you know that I worked
with Muslims on that as a Christian. And I was criticized by many Christians for getting involved.
And I know many Christians who wouldn't refuse, and especially after what happened
in Israel on October 7th. They're like, see, we should never have worked with the Muslims.
(40:14):
And I think actually that was a satanic thing because you could see the Christians
and Muslims were starting to work together. And then there was the whole topic
of when you're working with – it just started me on the ball rolling of when is it okay to partner.
So in summary, that was really the issue. When do you partner and when do you
not partner with people who call themselves Christians?
(40:35):
Because also you're making money and business with non-Christians, right?
Yeah, so hopefully this has given some food for thought. Well,
had you thought about this?
Obviously not. But now you think about it.
No, but I have thought about it. And that's why I said in the beginning,
to me, I have more of a simplistic view of this. I still think I'm overthinking it.
You know, I'm thinking it's good to be able to have a discussion. It is controversial.
(40:57):
Yeah, and I think it's good to have this discussion because I think sometimes we look at the term.
Unequally yoked and we paint everything with the same brush.
And sometimes when we give our money, we sometimes paint everything with the same brush.
So it's sometimes looking at specifically what's the context of the scripture.
I know we didn't do that and it wasn't the intent, but it's how we think through.
Well, I think we expressed the details on unequally yoked, that we clarified that.
(41:22):
And then I think we do need to have a separate discussion on tithes and offerings,
how that works. Yeah. Okay, beautiful.
You want to pray for us? Am I praying? Yeah. Okay.
Heavenly Father, we come before you, Lord. As always, Lord, we pray that our
words are honoring to you, our actions are respecting what your word has taught
us, Lord, and that we are teaching correctly.
(41:45):
So, Lord, if there's any error in our thoughts, I pray that you give us clarity.
And I pray for all those listening, Lord, that you would help them as always.
Holy Spirit, you would direct them and direct us to make the right decisions
visions on where we are partnering with people, where we are being yoked,
where we are working with others.
Lord, that it may glorify you. And at the end, the overall vision of bringing
(42:09):
people to know you and your son, Lord, we pray that you would reveal this to all of us.
And we, as always, are so grateful for your wisdom.
I pray this in the mighty name of your son, Yeshua. Amen. Amen.
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