Mad City Mysteries: Unveiling the Paranormal with KJ from Mad City Ghost Walks

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 In this episode of Dairyland Frights, host John welcomes KJ from Mad City Ghost Walks, diving into the fascinating world of the paranormal in the Midwest. KJ shares her personal journey into the paranormal, recounting her first experiences and the emotional connections that have shaped her passion. Together, they discuss ghost stories, the significance of energy in hauntings, and the unique history of haunted sites in Madison. If you're intrigued by the supernatural, this episode is a must-listen!

Chapters:

(00:00) This is another episode of Dairyland Frights, the paranormal podcast

(00:53) Why do you like the paranormal? When was your first paranormal experience

(04:09) It was something emotional in your life that changed your feelings about the paranormal

(06:22) Have you ever had a time where a haunted place shook you

(10:51) Nick Baggins says he experienced paranormal activity during a piano performance

(14:43) You should unleash that and talk about it, right? You're scared

(16:01) Have anything funny happened to you when you've been on an investigation

(18:36) Two female investigators were investigating at Missouri State Penitentiary

(20:45) I believe many hauntings can be residual and can be environmental playback

(25:36) I'm really into the residual hauntings theory

(29:03) What if someone takes a picture of a ghost and everyone agrees it's real

(31:05) The Stone Tape theory was coined by British film director Nigel Neil in 1972

(34:23) There are certain places that are full of evil and others that are kind

(40:09) Let's talk about Mad City Ghost Walks. Um, it's a Madison company

(42:59) Let's just do some of the top buildings and why they're haunted

(47:18) Have you ever been on a ghost tour where something felt off

(51:10) So let me ask you this. What is your favorite Wisconsin thing

(54:31) If you had an unlimited check, where would you go

(57:37) Frank Lloyd: I really want to go on a paranormal investigation

(01:01:48) All right. Thanks for having me. Stay spooky. Love it.

References:

Mad City Ghost Walks https://madcityghostwalks.com

R.L. Stine https://www.rlstine.com

Stephen King https://stephenking.com

Gettysburg https://www.gettysburg.com

Summer Wind Mansion https://www.summerwindmansion.com

   

Episode Transcript

>> John (00:18):
This is your host, John, and welcome to another
episode of Dairyland Frights, the paranormal
podcast that covers everything spooky,
creepy and mysterious in the Midwest.
And today I am
truly blessed to have a
fellow Madisonian from the Mad
City. My guest today is KJ

(00:40):
from Mad City Ghost Walks. Welcome,
KJ.

>> KJ (00:51):
Welcome, welcome.

>> John (00:52):
Love it, love it.
So let's start right off the gate here.
Right? we give you a hot question. Why do
you like the paranormal? And like, when was like
your first paranormal experience? We're right in.

>> KJ (01:04):
We're going right in. Okay. Why do I like
Norl? Why not? The world is kind of
a crazy place that it's getting crazier. So I'm
trying to kind of scale back and just
pursue the interests that I like and that I've
always liked, even when I was a kid. I've just
loved the paranormal my whole life. It's just I always read those

(01:24):
scary stories to tell the dark, those books when I
was a kid that are just absolutely terrifying with these
pictures. And it was never like off
limits or taboo in my household. So we would
just, we just were very open minded growing
up. And I like to thank the great
stay at home order and the pandemic. That was kind of

(01:45):
my silverining of, well, there's nothing better to do. I'm
just going to read old books and kind
of dig into the stuff that I liked as a kid
and it's just kind of taking awesome since then.

>> John (01:56):
So you were the kid kind of like me maybe reading
those Goosebumps, you know, by R.L.
stein. Right. Maybe some other
ghost books that people are like looking at you, the other
kids going, okay, yeah, other kids.

>> KJ (02:10):
Were reading the Babysitters Club and I was reading R.L. steine
or Stephen King. And that's, that's kind of what it is in a
nutshell. I just, I've always gravitated
towards the stranger side of life
and kind of the harmony instead of the melody, if you
will. And yeah, I just, I keep getting
signs and opportunities and stuff like this where I'm like,
okay, this is what I meant to be doing.

>> John (02:31):
Awesome, awesome.

>> KJ (02:32):
Rolling with it. Oh, I remember it very well. I
may have had more before then, but I didn't pick up on
it. I was about 11 or 12 and I wrote
about this actually. I experienced my
grandmother of her spirit not long after she passed
away. She would visit our
home in the form of turning on
lights in my living room. And I knew it was

(02:55):
her. I just, I just knew it. I could hear her voice in my head saying, I'm
here. And I was very close with my grandmother
and was very devastated when she passed away.
And, it was a pattern that I noticed. This was
a lamp that had belonged to her. And
I just noticed the lamp kept turning on as I was in the house.
And I thought. Then I started looking at the timing, and I

(03:15):
looked at the pattern, and I looked at how I felt, and
I looked at, you know, instead of just, oh, the
lamps turning on. That's weird. I started to make those
patterns in my head and hearing her voice and at
one point, actually going over to that lamp
and. Oh, God. I try not to get emotional over
it, but it was a very. I don't want to say
frightening to me. I'm. I think I'm very lucky. And that

(03:38):
my first paranormal experience wasn't something, like,
horrifying and terrible and scary. It was
grandma. And I think that kind of set the tone
for how I would approach the paranormal moving forward, is
that it's nothing to be scared of, that it's just an energy
that is love. And you can. If you can
feel it around you like. Like cold static.

(03:58):
Yeah.

>> John (03:59):
Is used.

>> KJ (04:00):
That's cool. Wow.

>> John (04:01):
Typically what I hear, it's just
my.

>> KJ (04:04):
Guest been a path in my life.

>> John (04:07):
Right. It was something emotional in your life
that kind of changed you, how you felt
about the paranormal. And a lot of people, not to
get off on my first tangent, but a lot of people
don't. They don't want to talk about it. Right.
They're scared to talk about it. they feel like
people will view them differently, feel that

(04:27):
they're scared, you know what I'm saying? And
that's part of the reason, I'm doing this podcast is
to take away some of that, you know,
total mystique a little bit, if you want to say,
or.

>> KJ (04:39):
Absolutely.

>> John (04:40):
Sometimes people feel shame, too. Like, you know, Oh,
it's like, why am I feeling this? Yeah. Saaboo.
There you go. That's what I was looking for.

>> KJ (04:49):
Yeah. Yeah. And I don't. I always wonder,
and I think, is it. Is it your religion? Is it your belief
in science? Is it philosophy? I think there's just a
lot in our minds that we're afraid to deal
with that emotion or deal with that experience
or just deal with the thinking that we have in
those moments of, this isn't making sense. This is

(05:09):
defying physics. This is defying what I believe in. And
instead of being denying that or being afraid of
it, I just chose to embrace it. Because I don't care if you think
I'm crazy. I already know I'm crazy. Like, that's just, you know, you're
not telling me anything I don't already know. I'm just going to put it all out there
and say, hell, yeah, this stuff is real. I believe in it. I've
experienced it. And part of, what I like to write

(05:30):
about and when I do presentations, especially when I
ghost walks, I say that this is a safe place.
People talk about those.

>> John (05:37):
They just feel like, I believe you. I feel there's
thousands of stories out there that have not been told.
Right. Because you're just like, I don't know,
you know, my, my, I saw my grandpa.
Right. I get a lot of that stories. Like someone was close to
their grandma or their grandpa, and then they see
them shortly after they pass and they're
like, some accept it pretty well. Like, some

(06:00):
of my guests have talked about it and have said, you know, this is
it. Just mean me felt calm. And other people say
they scared me. And like, my mom had to say,
like, you know, grandpa, you, you need to
go, like, you're scaring her or you're scaring
him. You know what I mean? And I get kind of
the, different stories like that.
So let me ask you this. Have you ever had a

(06:22):
time where you were, you know, like, wow,
that's kind of shook me a little bit.

>> KJ (06:26):
Knew you were Renna ask me that and you think I actually thought of something?
No, not yet. I'm open to it.
Of course I've been startled. I am a dark
tourist. I like to go to places and hunt this stuff
out. And a lot of times I go by myself. I'm
weird, but it doesn't scare me. I'd say I'm
startled. I'm like, whoa, that was weird. I just had a spirit box

(06:47):
thrown at me. Like, that's happened. And I say, do
it again. Like I want. You can either
run from it or you can be like, okay, this is what we want,
right? Do it again. Build that credibility.
I want that evidence. So, no, I
really haven't had moments where I'm
just like terrified and
running out of a haunted house. And, like I said,

(07:10):
I'm open to it, but I'm just, I'm more scared of the living
than any other other thing. I'm go goingna regret this. I know
this something's gonna happen'back on the podcast.
But no, I embrace it. Bring it on. I love it.
I believe in it. I believe it's good. I believe you get what
you put into it. If you go to a haunted
abandoned place expecting to be scared, you
will be scared. But if you go in there,

(07:32):
open and say, I want to
experience scare, you can
just give me a message and know that I'm.

>> John (07:40):
I. You ll have to hold my hand one
of these times. If I go. When else? I go into your ghost walk when
you. I get scared. I'm like the guy who runs
through like the cartoons you like, runs through the wall
and there's an outline of me. Yeah, that's. Yeah,
yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm one of those. Just because I've
had numerous paranormal investigators on

(08:00):
and they've been touched. Like
couple of the guys and, and
women have said it threw them off.
Like, you know, they were in a room and they weren't asked to
be touched. Right. They didn't say touch me,
whatever. They were just investigating. And then
people felt like a tug in their shirt or a pull on their
arm. One guy told me, and

(08:23):
I'm not trying to mention names or anything like that, but. And I'm sure
he's not embarrassed about it. Cause he got past it. But he
said he had an opportunity where he
was really a, spooky, scary
haunted house. The cliche, you know, it's in the middle of
nowhere where it's all dilapidated. It's
like, you know what I'm saying? Something rush straight out of a

(08:43):
horror movie. There wasn't much activity. They were going there
get some EVPs and stuff like that. But he said
near the end something grabbed his arm and he
said it freaked him out. And the next day he
went to the restaurant where they were just talking through their things.
He started crying like, A, you know, an older, you know,
because it just. He never had that happen. And he. It

(09:03):
wasn't crying. He was scared, he was crying. It was so
emotional that he never thought something
like this would happen. So I think there's two. Yeah,
right. There's kind of two ends of it. And then also
I've heard. I don't know if you've heard this too, where,
it affected you so much and
I already know your answer, but IH ask anyway. Affected
them so much they had to leave the building.

(09:26):
You know what I mean? Like, so it
was, you know, they get outside and they're
fine, you know what I mean? They like there'they're nauseous, they feel
they're going toa throw up or they're goingna feel weak.
Like they're going toa pass out and then they walk outside the
building.

>> KJ (09:41):
Yeah.

>> John (09:41):
And they're fine. They're having good times
and something like that has that.
Again, I already know your answer, but I ask you anyway. Has that ever
happened to you when you got truly emotional?
Okay.

>> KJ (09:53):
Yeah, absolutely. One of the most haunted places
I've been to was a place in Illinois. It's a historical
building and I'm reluctant to name it because I don't know
if they want. I would be a guest investig investigator with a group that
would investigate places that the
community was like, there's weird stuff happening in our building and we
don't want anybody to know about it. And they would reach out to these

(10:13):
groups to see, like, is this really happening? So I don't know
if they want it known that their place is haunted. So I'm
going to be careful. But it was a historical
mansion and
gorgeous, beautiful, old. So many stories, so many
ghostly things that we had in
this mansion was like a performing hall. It was huge. It was

(10:34):
like an auditorium and it had a grand piano and I was, I could play the
piano. And I thought, o, how cool would this be to just play the
piano and see if the ghosts respond to music?
Because how many people can do that, you know?
And they had all their equipment set up and we had cameras, we
had night vision. We had the little, the lights that
light up. What I don't even what they're called, like the string of

(10:54):
lights and that have electromagnetic. You touch them and they light
up. And me and the piano. And I thought, I'm just
going to sit and play the piano. And you're welcome to join me in the
audience. Let's play the piano. And I played just
songs that I remembered and, just pieces of
others and like Christmas carols. I just kind of noodled on the
piano. And at one point, after one

(11:14):
song, a whole bunch of little cat balls on the front
row started going off. I thought, well, thank
you very much. You know, and I just stated character and I thought, okay,
they like it and there's nothing else
happened. Side note, it was midnight.
It was summer. It was
during a thunderstorm, so the
atmosphere was charged. And I. There's

(11:36):
some. That's another. We'll talk about that. Like, I believe that that
energy was heightened in that moment. And we have
the investigation later. A spirit box gets thrown at me. It's
all good. I felt something tug my hair. Whatever. It's all good.
And maybe a week or two after That I
was feeling good. I was like, yeah, it was a good investigation. But sometimes
you don't know what evidence you're getting in that moment. It can just

(11:57):
be boring. And you're sitting there in the dark and
nothing's happening. But you go back and
you review your equipment and you review the
footage and there is a whole lot of stuff happening
in the background. EVP is all this stuff going
on. Voices in the camera that you know were not
there when you were playing the piano. And I got
so overcome with em motion when the group,

(12:19):
they showed me on the laptop, they're like, you've got toa hear this, you've
got to see this. And we pull up on the laptop just
this. You know, it's not even fancy footage. It's just a night
vision camera. And I'm playing the piano and you can see me
react to the balls lighting up. And you can hear
clear as day in the microphone of that camera.
Bravo. Good job. I like that

(12:39):
song. And I just like the first time you
catch an EVP that's clear like that.
And not only it's not a residual, it is
directly talking to you and reflecting on
the performance that you just gave. And you can
hear distant applause. I about peed my pants.
I was so. There is no word for that

(13:00):
emotion. I was startled, but I wasn't scared.
I was overtaken. I was emotional, I was
happy. I was like, this is real. Like, it
just clicked in that moment and I just, have
played the piano and to resonate with an audience
that wasn't even there and that
responded to me. And unfortunately, of course, I
don't have that video. It was owned by this group

(13:22):
that did this. But. But it, it just, it's solidified
in my heart. Like, okay, this, this shit's real.
It's very real. And it's nothing to be
afraid of. I mean, if you're afraid of this as a
paranormal investigator, then you shouldn't be a paranormal investigator. You're
just. You need to go in this with like a scientific
and appreciative mindset. And if it does

(13:43):
scare you, just, take a moment, go outside,
you know, wipe it off. Yeah, in there. I finish
your work. No, re.

>> John (13:50):
I love it. I love it. Kj, that, that's
awesome. Because again, you have to have
passion for this. You have to have a love for
this. Because let's be honest,
you're not making a ton of money. You know, there,
there's people who do, but they kind of.
I'm not going toa get into whole thing, traumatize it. You know
what I'm saying? Like, oh, there's a demon. Everything's a demon

(14:13):
nowadays. Like, stop it. Everything's a demon.
Right? And you know, you. Yeah, right. You got
it. You gotta like, Hey, all the credit. I
call Nick Baggins. I call him Bagel Bites.
but all the cred. All the credit to him.
The credit to him. He's found a way to
monetize it, right? To make money at it.

(14:34):
Okay. yeah.

>> KJ (14:35):
Love. Don't give love me some ghost adventures,
but I'm talking like the first 10 seasons, not
the rest. It's just. I've been to his museum. I love it.
I not. It was worth it to me. I love it. Yeah.
There's once. It's not a hobby anymore or an interest and
just becomes monetized. That's where I. I don't want to get
there. I don't want. I want it to always be a mystery.

(14:56):
I don't want to know the. I
always.

>> John (14:59):
That's the way you should look it.

>> KJ (15:01):
Because who I am am in my core.

>> John (15:03):
You can share that with people, of who are scared
like you said, or who are not willing to share their
stories to say, like, it's okay. You know,
you're re. I don't think you're crazy. I don't think I'm
gonna look at this in open mind
and we're gonna talk about it and you're gonna feel
million times better, right? Because that's what it
comes down to. Because you just. You sit on

(15:26):
that. Like people I've interviewed and like
you said too have. It's usually you're a little
kid, right? You maybe this happened at six or seven
years old. And you have carried that with
youill your 30s, 40s,
whatever, and nod. You haven't told anybody. I'm
like s. A burden. You should unleash that and
talk about it. M. And ah. You're gonna feel million times

(15:48):
better. Right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's awesome.
So now we talked a little scary stuff.

>> KJ (15:53):
Absolutely.

>> John (15:54):
Have you ever had anything funny happen
to you? Maybe it. Excuse me for
this, but usually happens to women. And I've had
my female investigators tell me this is.
They've been pinched on the butt. They've been
like, you know, groped. So. Has anything
like, funny like that happened to you when you've been on an
investigation?

>> KJ (16:15):
Not that I remember. No. I've definitely felt
a tug on my clothes in a
different mansion. Like a kid just kind of a
Tug, just as a side note, again, it didn't scare
me because your. Your brain immediately thinks
something rational happened. It wasn't even. It wasn't even an issue. It was
just, oh, I thought I. There's no one there. Like, I thought

(16:35):
I brushed up against somebody. So I was like, oh, that was weird. And
I just go on with my investigation. But I did.
I've had my hair kind of tugged a little bit at
a place that I spent the night at on my birthday by
myself. Because I'm weird at a place that used to be
an old brothel. And I'm not gonna lie, I was
a little weird. I'm like, what am I doing?

(16:55):
But whatever. I got nothing better to do. So I spent the night there
in an old brothel. And I did feel my hair touched a little
bit, but it didn't bother me. I mean,
what did I expect? I had some really messed up
dreams, but I didn't really capture any other evidence
either. So I don't know if it was a conscious spirit
still lingering. And they're like, hey, there's a lady of the night

(17:15):
in here. Or if it was just a residual.
That's the kind of touch. And I thought it was a
beautiful thing. You touch someone's hair. That's very intimate. That's
very. I mean, you're not goosing me in the
behind and that's not
happen. Okay, maybe, maybe it's just
me. But no, I'm not had anything inappropriate
happen.

>> John (17:35):
But so I.

>> KJ (17:37):
So yeah, the
chivalrous.

>> John (17:41):
I have two things that has to happen to kj.
One, we gotta scare the crap out of her. And
two, you know, ghost out there have to do
other things. We won't get into those. you know what's funny
about that, too is, have you ever investigated a
prison? Ooh, nice.

>> KJ (17:57):
No, I really want to. I've been to
Eastern State Penitentiary in Philadelphia just
during the day, and I took a lot of pictures.
But they don't. I don't think they do. I don't think they allow
ghost adventure type of things at night anymore. But I want
to. I want to go to a prison. There's a prison, Montana State
Prison. I want to go to Missouri. So it's on the
bucket list. So I would be curious if my bottom would get

(18:19):
pinched.

>> John (18:19):
Love your attitude. It's awesome. Kj.

>> KJ (18:22):
Well, let's go.

>> John (18:24):
My favorite story from that just again, I'm sorry, I'm
going off another tangent. Two
female investigators ahead on the show. They were at
Missouri State Penitentiary and one of them is,
like, sensitive. So we can get into that a little bit here.
So she's not a medium or a psychic, but she's
very sensitive. And she saw this Britick in

(18:44):
one of the cells and it was loose. And she was
like, I'm going to take that brick. I'm gonna remove the
brick and see what's behind. There's something behind there, right? And I'm
like, oh, my God, why are you doing that? And she's
like, no, you know, she's like, you. You know, I'm gonna do this. They. It'scare
me, right? She remove the brick. And there was a
comb. So there was a comb behind this

(19:04):
brick. And so she took the
comb and she's holding the comb and she's holding it and
she's like, wow, this. There's a lot of negative energy
in this comb. And they, they ran some EVPs,
they asked some questions. Who, you know, who's this comb
belonged to? Did you use this comb? Why'd you hide
this comb? And nothing just felt weird. They

(19:25):
got out of there. They listened to the
EVP later. And this is what the
EVP said. Put the comb back, you
bitch. That's exactly what it said. And
she sent it to me. And it's hard to
hear, but you do hear. Put the comb back. And
then you hear, bitch clears day. So, you know,
she, you know, obviously she did. She didn't take the comb. She put

(19:47):
everything back. But, you know, she was like,
wow. And she said she's experienced that
a lot in prisons, that there seems to be a lot
of negative energy towards
the more of the females, but also the males in a
sense of when they go into certain places.
Like solitary confinement. Yeah.

(20:07):
And it's just. My God. I mean, it's just the way we
treated prisoners and still do. I won't
get off on that thing, but. Just horrible. I mean, just
horrible conditions. Treat them like animals.
What do you think is going to happen? There's going to be
negative energy. There's going to be a lot
of energy in there that's going to be

(20:28):
very powerful negative energy. So I just think
that's really interesting.
So let me. Have you ever, like,
tried Ouija boards or had anything like
that? A, two. Maybe try something a little different. Okay.

>> KJ (20:40):
I mean, like, in high school, in my be and
stuff, like, with friends, we would do the Ouija boards,
but truthfully, no. I almost feel that our
best piece of paranormal equipment is ourselves
and our bodies. And to be able to. I mean, I
have equipment, and I have stuff like that that I use. But
you can't replace that. That feeling that you get

(21:01):
when a spirit or an energy just kind of is there,
and you feel that it helps to, you know, have
equipment to scientifically validate that. That, yes, the
temperature did drop 30 degrees. But I think our
bodies can. I think we can all. We're all sensitive.
I think we're all able to tap into
that. But if you don't believe in it and you can't, your

(21:21):
body just won't. And I think our
bodies are such amazing things that we're learning
so much about in recent years that
there's got to be. I don't know, there's just got to be a way to be
able to. I don't know what I'm trying to say. There's. There's different
ways to measure that that we just haven't thought of yet. And I
think we need to get creative and we need to think outside the box. I

(21:41):
think that story about the comb is very compelling and
very interesting, and I would love to catch that
kind of evidence, even if it's negative or directed at
me. But I don't think it's a demonic thing. I think it's
just, that's my comb. Like, that's the one thing I can
have. That's the one thing I own. That's my one piece
of comfort. Put that down. And

(22:01):
very, very interesting, you know, and.

>> John (22:04):
It'Ssolutely go to those places,
investigators and have used, and everyone
is respect. You can't go into a
place and be like, okay, I'm here,
and start screaming and I don't know, whatever. How
else people do, right? You really want to be
like, okay, look, if you want me to leave,

(22:26):
I will leave. but, you know, however you want to phrase it, and
I think that's something, to me, is
really interesting, because ghost
people don't understand. Used to be people, and they're
still basically people. So if you treat them
like shit, they're gonna treat you like shit.
Do you agree with that or what? What do you think? okay.

>> KJ (22:46):
And I'm gonna throw a wrench into that too, because I think a
lot of people, when we ask, what is a ghost? It's.
People have lots of different definitions. And someone that studied this
as long as I have and go out there and experience
this. I think ghosts can be residual. I think they can
just be energy. They can just be an environmental
kind of playback, or they can be a conscious spirit.

(23:06):
And to Me, that comb. That was
the spirit that was attached to that comb. I wonder if that is
still a conscious type of thing. Or the
audience that was clapping to me. Well, I
guess I could be residual too, but it felt very personal.
And I'm someone that we could go into it now or later. But I
was talking about stone tape theory. I believe so

(23:26):
many hauntings that people experience can be residual
and can be just an environmental playback.
But prove me wrong. Well, yeah, if something's tugging on my
hair and throwing a box. Spirit box at me and applauding
it, something I'm playing, that to me, is
very conscious and intelligent. And I
think that's what could scare people, is that we just
don't understand why. So we shut down and we

(23:49):
get scared, and we're like, nope, that didn't happen.

>> John (23:52):
And I love that because.

>> KJ (23:54):
Yeah, let's understand it. Let's communicate with
it.

>> John (23:57):
Haunting again, for some people who
are not familiar with it, that's something that kind of like.
It's like three in the morning, and
you see a little girl walk down the hall three in the morning.
Or your cupboards are slamming. It just
happens all the time. Something very simple. But,
intelligent haunting is you're in your bed, and

(24:17):
maybe that little girl comes up to your bed and she
communicates you one way or another. Maybe she
tugs on your hair, she grabs your
sheath. She maybe says something, you
know, and to me, I've always said this.
And again, K.J. again, you're. You're
super brave. So, just give me a little bit of

(24:38):
leeway here. But sigil haunting to me would be
annoying. Like, if I woke up every morning at three in the morning, there
was a little boy at the foot of my bed, I'd be like, oh, my
God. Like, let's figure out a way to get you
out of here. But an intelligent
haunting. U. if. Let's say that little boy was
bouncing a ball on the wall at 3 o'clock in
the morning. You know, little kids. Or maybe you've done it when

(25:01):
you've been bored. You just like, bounce the ball and catch it and bounce
it back. I'm like, man, that's not
scary. That to me is like, I'm trying, like you said,
I'm trying to figure out why this is happening.
Why in a residual haunting, I'm more like, can we figure out
how to get you to leave?
Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's right. Yeah.

(25:21):
So do you have a, do you have a thought about that?
What you feel be more. I Don't
know. Interesting or maybe. Maybe
annoying, I guess. O. Okay.

>> KJ (25:32):
I'm really into the residual hauntings. They're annoying,
and they're weird, and I think they're on a different
spectrum of hauntedness. And, I mean, I could talk for an hour
about this. I may. We will. It's like the stories of
hated houses are always the same, you know, like you were saying.
It's like there's this apparition that walks the stairs at
midnight. Or I always. I smell roses, or

(25:52):
I. I hear a knocking, or just they're.
There're hauntings that don't really make sense. It's like, okay, what was the point of
that? Or it's like they're a picture that's on
playback. I like to say it's like a bleed in the matrix and
a place that. I love this podcast that you did with the
guys that went to Gettysburg. That is Paranormal
Disney World. That is Residual Hauntings
101. Every time I go there, I've been there probably six

(26:15):
or seven times. I'm going there in a few weeks again. It's just.
You think about Gettysburg, and you think of the amount of energy
that was condensed. 50,000 people died there
in three days. Okay. Just think about that. Think
about the explosive, the violent, the
emotional, the tragic. That energy has
to go somewhere. And the residual hauntings

(26:35):
theory says that it. The environment just sucks it back
up. And under certain conditions, whether
it's temperature or the moon cycle
or just the barometric pressure, just. Just the
environment can replay that
memory, that energy of that event. And my dad
had told me a story about Gettysburg where he wasn't there,

(26:55):
but it was a friend of. Or coworker of his that went there and
said that. Then when they were out doing a little group tour at
Gettysburg, a reenactment group walked by
and just kind of vanished into the woods. And the group
was like, cool. There's a look. There's a group of soldiers
there. Guides are going. There's snow tour
scheduled today. And that group of
soldiers just evaporated into the trees. And

(27:18):
a group of 30 people saw it. That's not a
conscious haunting. The ghost, the picture
is not aware of you. It's not
help. I'm trapped in the Civil War, and I can't move
on. It's just something that happened in
time that's stuck in the environment, and it's like a
mirage. It's like a fossil. It's just.
It presents itself when conditions are, Right.

(27:40):
And I'm interested in what Are those conditions
what happens? I've been. The times. I've been in
Gettysburg, I've been hiking. You can smell
gunpowder. I've heard cannons. Yeah, it's
just constant. And I'm not scared of it
because I'm there to learn about it, you know? And to me,
those residual hauntings aren't as scary

(28:01):
because they're just.

>> John (28:02):
We're on the same page here. That's awesome.

>> KJ (28:04):
Isn't that weird?

>> John (28:06):
Because it's strange. But you want to know about it.
Why? Why is this happening? Right. One of the. One of
the things that I've done research
on is like, different types of
ghosts, like poltergeist versus A,
mist versus orbs versus.
You know, there's other different types of ghosts out there and
everything like that. And of. One of the

(28:28):
things I find fascinating with it
is no one to this
day can be like, oh, here it is.
Here's your. Here's your thing on your phone. And this
is exactly what happened. And then, you know, this is all the
information. It's all solved. You know what I mean? And I don't think it
will ever do that.
So one question, though, I have to ask you

(28:51):
is if someone finally, because you know,
there's been how many countless pictures of ghosts
and everybody debunks it, and that's fine, but what
if one day, if someone took a picture of
a ghost, gave it to a bunch of top
minds in the field, scientists, paranormal
investigators, everybody looked at it and said, that's

(29:11):
real. That is a real ghost.
As a real spirit. Do you think people
would believe it or do you think people would be like,
come on, you know, all the skeptics out
there would be like, yeah, come on, you know,
what do you think?

>> KJ (29:26):
I think there's always going to be that. Even if it's legit
proof and whether or not it's just people that are just.
I don't want to use the word closed minded because that's not. I don't want it
to sound insulting, but it's just. There's just some people that won't believe
it unless they've experienced it themselves. And if they're just
looking at a picture and. And everyone
agrees it's a ghost. I've had pictures. I have pictures like that where

(29:47):
I'm like, I don't know what this is. Somebody tell me what this is. Like,
I want it. Of course I want it to be a ghost. But if it's
condensation or if it's just a moth, like, let's
let's debate it. But, you don't have to bring in any kind
of personal thing about it. It's just, it's objective. It's
looking at this and going, I don't know what that is. I have
something that's the shape of a person in front of an abandoned
house that wasn't there when I was visiting it.

(30:09):
Help. There's always gonna be people that don't believe in it, and that's fine.
If you don't believe in it, then why are you following my page? Like,
if you don't believe in the paranormal, you know, it's just. I don't mean
to be rude, but it's like you don't have a leg to stand on. If you're
just Joe Schmo on the Internet looking at stuff to
debunk. It's just like, unless you re boots on the ground
in this haunted house and you're doing this with me.

(30:30):
I'm sorry, I don't. I don't have time for your opinion because
you weren't there. And,
you know, there's things I've experienced in Gettysburg and so
many places that it's like, yeah, that really happened. That was
cool.

>> John (30:43):
Yeah.

>> KJ (30:43):
And you don't have to.

>> John (30:44):
Absolutely.

>> KJ (30:45):
Then just don't. Go find something else to entertain
yourself with.

>> John (30:49):
Yeah.
So let's go back. You were, like, talking about
different theories. Now let's, you know, we could
talk, you know, how many podcasts about this, but you
were talking about, like, the Stone tape theory. Is
that correct? Yeah. So could you, for my
spooky friends, could you kind of give them, just a general
background, a little bit about that and what it means?

>> KJ (31:09):
Yeah, absolutely. The Stone Tape theory. That
word was coined by British film
director Nigel Neil in 1972. He
made a movie called the Stone Tape, and it was about
a group of researchers that were in a
haunted, haunted type of castle, and they were
researching something else, but they kept finding that
their recording equipment was picking up this screaming woman

(31:32):
on this ancient staircase. And, you know, it's made 1972,
so it's kind of hokey, but I love it. I think it's free. You
can find it probably on YouTube, the stone tape. And the whole
movie is their premise of what if
a ghost is just an image trapped in time?
What if the environment is acting like a
recording mechanism? And they theorize that because

(31:52):
the environment that's made up of limestone or
quartz or iron, all of these natural
occurring evidence or, elements which
happen to also be the same naturally occurring
elements that we use in recording
devices. Okay, how does a tape recorder work?
It imprints images and sound on

(32:12):
plastic that's coated with iron oxide
and run through electromagnetic strips of
energy. I'm sorry, I'm not an engineer, but that's how that
works. Why can't that just work in the environment? That
is the stone tape theory. And I found
that very compelling. And I'm like, I want to look into this more.
And so I've done a lot of research and I have a presentation
that I'm going to be giving soon. And I've. I've written a

(32:35):
paper on this. There's something to this. There's something
in the biology of our bodies and in our
DNA and in the environment that potentially
can record images. And so that stone
tape theory was born out of that movie. And it's interesting
because we think ``ette tapes. Who listens? Who even.
Who even knows what a cassette tape is anymore besides people

(32:55):
like our age? But that was the height of technology
in 1972. So, you know, had that been discovered now,
you know, and it's interesting that we think about our language and
how we use how our technology and our language and
our thinking adapts to the technology of the time
and how now we're digital and we're using computers.
What if ghosts are something that's more of a digital

(33:16):
imprint? What if it's like a hologram? So
you can start to think, what's the technology we
have today? What if our consciousness can come back in that
form? I know I'm going way out there, but we
need to be studying this. We need to be understanding this, and we
need to not disregard people who capture this
evidence and say, oh, that's nothing. Don't worry about it.

(33:36):
It's like, what are you afraid of? If it's true,
is it going to just completely change your.

>> John (33:42):
Yeah, that's.

>> KJ (33:42):
Is't that exciting? Yeah. why would that be scary?

>> John (33:45):
Just on a different topic here, like, this has
been. I think it's kind of funny. And I've spoken to
people who are in the UFO
community and, you know, talking about who'been abducted
and stuff like that. And we've basically said,
UFOs exist, aliens exist, and people
basically did this. Yeah, I mean, I'm just gonna look at
my phone here.

(34:06):
And I think that's one of the things too,
with ghosts, like we just talked about, in your
theories s. It's really good to study
because one of the things I found out is either
These aliens are here to help us
or they're here to hurt us. And most of
the people I've spoken to have said they're

(34:27):
here to help us. They're basically telling
us, you're screwing it up. You know, you guys aren
toa die. Stop it. Right? And
then you look at ghosts with paranormal.
There's been many, many stories,
events where a ghost has said,
hey, you better do this. And one of the stories

(34:47):
I always tell, I love is one of
my guests on a, ghost basically
saved her sister, her younger sister,
who was on a tire swing. And she was on this
tire swing. And, you know, for people, like, we know
what a tire swing is. But anyway, and
she. And she was, you know, little at that time, and she got it

(35:07):
caught around her throat. So basically she was being
gonna be hanged to death. And this ghost of
what my guest feels that was her aunt was like,
bugging her, like, like pushing her, like making her,
like, come to the window. Like, she said, I had to go to the window. Like
there was this. This spirit. I feel my aunt
dragging me to the window. Not physically, not like

(35:28):
actually dragging her, but she had this just overwhelming
urge, look out the window. And when she did, there, she
saw her sister being basically strangled to death
by the tire swing. She ran out there,
rescued her sister, you know, called
911. she's fine, everybody's good.
But I'm like, again, you know what I'm

(35:48):
saying? Study stuff like that where there are ghosts
out there who may tell you, like,
I don't know, maybe you don't want to go to work today.
And everybody could say, yeah, I don't want to go to work anyway, but you know what
I mean, Maybe there's something like not, you
know, don't get in your car date, don't, don't go to this
place, don't do that. Or. Yeah,

(36:09):
yeah.

>> KJ (36:10):
Ghosts aren't always ghosts. I think they can
be hunches, they can be premonitions. They
can just be those gut feelings. And I don't think
it always has to just be a ghost is a scary thing.
I think ghosts, there's a spectrum of what the paranormal
is. And those hunches or that just, it's
not your time. Guardian angels. Absolutely,

(36:30):
absolutely. And those travel with you your whole life. How
neat would that be? That when we cross on, our energy can come
back and help our loved ones or just be there in the moment
that they need it.

>> John (36:40):
Yeah.

>> KJ (36:40):
I think that's beautiful, and I think that's compelling
and interesting. It's not scary or
dumb.

>> John (36:46):
Yeah, absolutely. But it's to your point that
needs to be studied, right? We have to
study the bad with the good. Why is
there certain places that are evil
per se, if you want to say that, and other
places that are just full of kindness and
love. So, like why,
why is that to your point, to Gettysburg?

(37:08):
Gettysburg was full of what? Hate?
Violence, you know, everyone. But
I imagine there was some, there was brother
against brother, so there had to be some love there.
I mean, you're not going to shoot your brother. He's your
brother. You know what I mean? So there had to be
time. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So
there's. Take all these emotions,

(37:31):
put them in your face and try
them, you know, in there. You can't.
They're just going toa come through. And that's why
Gettysburg and castles
and certain other places,
where they're just so full of all the
emotions from love, the hate, the
jealousy, to whatever you want to

(37:53):
say, I always find that amazing. And you're right, it
should be studied. Oh, go on.

>> KJ (37:58):
Yeah, no, I just to add to your point
that when you're in Gettysburg and there's other places like this too, I'm just
more familiar with Gettysburg. There's still like cannonballs
and bullets and holes still in the walls in
downtown Gettysburg. your guests that we're at the Farnsworth House, the whole,
like, side of that building, the whole south side is just pedaleled with
bullets. And you have to tell yourself that
bullet was loaded into a musket

(38:21):
of someone that was trying to kill someone that
they hated. And they had their, their beliefs,
their energy went into that bullet that is still
in the side of the wall and that's still there that
was meant for a person. And you just, you have to step
back and think of that story and that intent and
that energy that's going there, of course it
still lingers. It's, it's still embedded in the

(38:43):
environment, for crying out loud. It's. I go there and I
just, I want to touch those things because it's just, it's
unsettling. But I like to feel unsettled.

>> John (38:51):
I.

>> KJ (38:51):
You know, I've been through a lot of things in my life that have
traumatized me or hurt me. It's like no ghost is
going to hurt me more than another person has. And
I welcome those feelings. I walked
into, the old seminary hospital in
Gettysburg. Everything became a hospital in Gettysburg during the
war. I just came, I went in a room and I Just started sobbing. I have
no idea why I was fortunate to have the whole place to myself.

(39:14):
And I just was overcome with emotion to find out that
that was a room that they did amputations and you didn't have
any, you know, anesthesia back then. So you just, you walk into
that room and you just feel gutted,
literally. And I'm
not afraid of my emotions. I am not my
emotions. I am experiencing my emotions and
I'm experiencing their emotions. And so when you

(39:36):
go into a space with that kind of mindset,
it's going to impact how you ablly study
research.

>> John (39:42):
I. That's good thing because
learn from that. We can, grow from that. And go from
there, though.
Let's get to speaking of places, here's a segue for
you. Let's talk about Mad City Ghost
Walks. Okay.
Yeah, we're too having too much fun on everything else.
Hey, there we go. So one of the things

(40:03):
I've been on about 16 different
ghost tours and everything. I was
not the Mad City ghost Walks. I was on another ghost
walks years ago in Madison. But why
don't you tell my spooky friends like a
little bit about Mad City ghost walks and then a little
bit about the tour and what you're seeing and everything

(40:23):
like that.

>> KJ (40:24):
So Mad City Ghost Walks, we've been around about a year. it's
a company in Madison. Mad City. Scott Graham is the
owner, and he put a call out looking for tour
guides. And I just happened, happened
to see this ad for paranormal tour
guides. And I was like, are you freaking kidding me? Like, yah,
hi me. And I called him, I bugged him. I was

(40:45):
just like, there's nobody better for this. I have a
background. I was in Toastmasters. I want to stay competition.
Like, I used to act. I used to model. I'm used to being on
stage. I'm used to talking in front of people. So. Oh yeah. And
I also love the paranormal. Hire me. So
that's what we did. And we've developed a script and
we. Oh, gosh, it's new. It was in its infancy. So I

(41:05):
maybe only gave like 12 tours last year because it started in
like September and it was, a blast. We
started the Wisconsin Masonic center
downtown, which is also haunted. And we
do a loop up Fraternity Row. We go, we talk
about Lake Mendota. We talk about. We go up to like
the Memorial Union in Bascome hall or Bascom

(41:25):
Hill and Science hall. And there's
all sorts of probably a dozen or more stops
just within this Two mile loop that we do and
that's just a fraction of Madison. Right.
And we're expanding now. This year we're
actually going to be starting to give cemetery tours
of Forest Hill Cemetery in Madison, which is on the

(41:45):
west side. yeah. So we're working on a script and permits
and all that kind of stuff so we can. Our goal is to be able
to do these year round because for some of us
spooky season isn't just October
247 and we want to be able to cater to those
people and we want to be able to cater to people that want to take tours during the
day on a weekend and maybe aren't brave enough to

(42:06):
go out at night or something like that. But we do
nighttime tours, we'll do daytime tours, we are doing
historical tours, we're doing more spooky
tours. So we're trying to kind of blend
the history and the paranormal to be
Madison's scariest ghost tour. Yeah, we have another
tour guide lined up too. So I'm not doing all of them, which is

(42:26):
fine. And it's, it's in
the work. So you can look at our website. You know, I know you'll throw it
up on the, on the site here and there's, there's going to
be stuff. Talk about that website right now.

>> John (42:37):
Let's just do some of the top buildings
and why they're haunted. Can you give a
like a brief explanation of
building like for instance, I believe like you guys
go to like I said Bascom Hill and stuff
like that. Like why is that haunted? And if you could,
you know, like I said, tell my spooky friends.

>> KJ (42:56):
Yeah. So I think I will go with like the
science hall end of our tour has been.
That's a 130 plus year old building.
It has seen so much of the Madison
history. It is a very weird
building and actually it burned down. And when it was
re rebuilt in the late

(43:16):
1800s, Frank Lloyd Wright was actually an
assistant on the building of that
second science hall. He was still in college. It was like he was
the assistant architect on that. So he kind of got his
start on that building. And there's so much more weird Frank
Lloyd Wright that I will tell you if you come on a tour.
But there's just, there's rooms that don't make sense.

(43:37):
There's, there's staircases that lead to nowhere.
There's like bats that fly around. It's just, it's a very
old building. It's like the Winchester mystery House
of The Midwest. Right. And there are secret
lab rooms and they used to have
cadavers in the basement. And to get them up to the
fourth floor, they would have to send them up a winch lift
system like a dumbwaider. I mean, it's gross.

(43:59):
But cadavers weren't as protected back then as they are now. So
when they were done chopping that body up, they just sent it down the
cadaver chute, which was like a slide
into the basement. And it's just like out.
Out into an area where it could be picked up and disposed of. It
was just. Just imagine how many hundreds and
hundreds of students have been through there. And

(44:20):
there's just so much about that building that's bizarre. And I don't want to
give it all away, but it's just, it's even. It just looks
imposing when you walk up to it, it's just like, wow, what
is this? This building looks haunted. And it kind of
adds to that lore and that
psychological mystique that we have about, oh, it's
an old building, it must be haunted.

>> John (44:39):
Yeah.

>> KJ (44:39):
So is it truly haunted or are we just saying it, or
is it.

>> John (44:42):
Just an old building with leaky p. What other
buildings? If you give a quick tease to my
audience.

>> KJ (44:49):
Sure. we go past the
Anne Emory hall, which is 265 Langdon.
And that was the building where UW Madison Co
Ed Christine Rothschild lived in the
60s. And that is one of Madison's. You're
nodding your head. You probably already know about it. One of those unsolved
murder cases. Unsolved in quotes.
But, very compelling, very

(45:11):
sad true crime story out of
that building. And just to. Just to be in front of that
building and know that this person lived there and wondering what
happened to her. I mean, she left that building
the same way any of us leave to go to work or go to school
in the morning and just. And had a tragic end. So we, we
talk about that story, we talk about

(45:31):
some of the legends of Picnic Point. We don't actually
go to Picnic Point, but when you're standing on Lake Mendota, you can see
it. And we talk about some of the, the lore, the witches of
Picnic Point. We talk about the suicideal Picnic Point,
we talk about the indigenous legends that are there.
So it's's a, it's a versatile tour in that we're not
just talking about ghosts. This ghost.

>> John (45:50):
Ha.

>> KJ (45:51):
That building. There's a ghost in that building. It's. It's a lot
of history tied in with legends and True
crime. And we talk about UFOs. We talk
about monsters. So it's. You'renna. There's something
for everyone at Ah, Mad City Ghostwatch. I have a good
time. I love talking about this stuff, and I like it to
be approachable and interesting and a

(46:11):
little scary too. But I'm most
interested in. I'm interested in the people's stories
that come on these tours and their beliefs.
And I encourage my audience to tell me
their ghost stories.

>> John (46:23):
Yeah, I love that. And your energy
is boundless with this, which makes it, you
know, even so much better when you go on a tour.
I've been on some tours where it's like
they hired the teenage kid for the summer
job. You know what I mean? Nothing wrong with that. And
the guy or the woman's. They're just trying to

(46:43):
get money for a car into college. And
I get that.

>> KJ (46:47):
Yeah. I. It's like, y. And you know
that what you like.

>> John (46:51):
Talk about what you want from your.

>> KJ (46:53):
Let's make a tour out of it.

>> John (46:55):
One of the things too. Have you ever been on a. Have been on
a tour where just
maybe sometimes something felt
off? Like, you. You were on a tour and like,
you almost feel like maybe you're being watched
or there's something weird going on?

>> KJ (47:12):
Maybe not on any of my tours, but I've
been on other paranormal or, like, ghost
tours that. In Gettysburg. U.
that's like my dream job right there as being a tour guide there. Because they
are good. Oh, my gosh. They are good
storytellers. So I think when I've been in other
groups, we've been in places that are just so old and
weird. And Wisconsin is not as old

(47:34):
as, let's say, Gettysburg or Salem or some
of those east coast kind of ghost tours. But,

>> John (47:40):
Okay.

>> KJ (47:40):
No, it's hard for me to answer that. I don't think I
have really.

>> John (47:45):
I, love.

>> KJ (47:45):
I'm open to. It'm to. Maybe I'll think of something.
I did get, you know, take that back. I did get very
emotional on one Gettysburg tour,
but I don't know if it was the energy of the space or the
energy of the tour guide. He was very good. He stayed in character.
He was dressed as an undertaker, and he was just
very dramatic and broody, and I loved every second of

(48:06):
it. That's not my style, but
I loved it. And going into it was an old
orphanage where the woman had really
imprisoned and tortured these kids. And just being in that
space and crawling into this hole
in this wall where she would keep these kids
and keep them tied up. It was just horrible.
So that I got really uncomfortable and I

(48:28):
didn't like it, but I wasn't going to be like, I want my
money back. I got emotional on this tour. Of course I did. That was
the point. That's what you pay for. And I was emotional and
I felt sick and I didn't like it. But I don't know if
that was my reaction or a, residual
imprints from those poor children. Either way, it was
real. It happened. I felt that. Soah.

(48:49):
I gave him 10 stars and like a $20 tip. I was like, this is the best
two ever. I felt great.

>> John (48:53):
S. You may be questioning my own race.

>> KJ (48:55):
Good job.

>> John (48:56):
I really like that you're good tour
guide. Exactly.

>> KJ (49:01):
Yes.

>> John (49:02):
Yes.

>> KJ (49:02):
That's what I pay for. I want that experience. I want to
remember that, you know, you escape reality for a
little bit, but it'when it really hits your core. That's. That's a good.
But I'm. They know I'm not like most people. There
were people that were offended and walked away. And I'm like,
nosolute. We gott tell our.

>> John (49:19):
Since we both live Wisconsin, there's
a number of different legends
and other things that. Well, first of all, we
have two of them. The most heavy
hitters for serial killers and Jeffrey
Dahmer and, Ed Geen. So, yeah,
thanks, Wisconsin for that. Then also we have Summer
Wind Mansion, which is. That's great. I Just

(49:42):
one other thing.

>> KJ (49:42):
Yes. I.

>> John (49:43):
We also have Cryptids. We are Beast of
Bray Road. We also have the
Bloody Bride. I think that's in Stevens
Point on the bridge. Bloody Bride
Bridge. Number of bridges. I did an episode on that.
There's also Bridge. Yes, Bridge, where
a mother. This is not fair. I think it was in
the 60s or 70s where, a,

(50:05):
mother and her daughter were going over this bridge. And I can't
remember the name of the bridge right now, but anyway, they
went off the road, went into the.
The. I wouldn't say it's a river or whatever creek. Nobody was
around. Eventually, died,
supposedly. And somebody says, well, the legend as
you go over this bridge, and if you're listening to the radio,

(50:25):
your radio will all of a sudden be
weird. And then also you'hear a little girl's voices
saying, help me. So, yeah,
so you were talking about Summer win. And then we have.
I'm next to tallyiescent. Taliesiesin is just right
down the road for me. Just right down the road for
me. Yes.
So let me ask you this. What is your favorite

(50:46):
aliens? We have a bunch of UFO sightings. We
have a, Mineral Point Vampire. I almost forgot
about that. The Mineral Point Vampire. Anyway, we have
a lot of stuff. What is your favorite?
What is. What is your favorite? Kj, if you could pick a favorite out
of Wisconsin.

>> KJ (51:02):
Yeah, man, there's. Yeah, like you said, there's
too much. There's so much in Wisconsin. Ah.
I've been to Bray Road. I've camped out there. I knew
the owner of the house.

>> John (51:12):
Yes.

>> KJ (51:13):
M. Favorite. I'm gonna have to go with Summer Wind
only because I spent time there. I spent the
night there. Spent. I didn't spend the night there. I was like, I
wasn't scared. I just didn't have a tent and I didn't want to deal with
bugs, so I just stayed in a motel down the road. But I got
to investigate Summer Wind, what's left of it, because
that's mysteriously burned down. And so it's
just ruins. And I love abandoned

(51:36):
buildings and ruins and that kind of lore.
But I felt very differently at Summer Wind.
For those of you that don't know, I mean, I maybe'll put a link to it. Like Summer Wind, if
this is Wisconsin, it's like here. It's like
highest north. It's. It's Inlando Lakes.
It's privately owned. So you have to have permission to go
there. And I did. I was with the group and
it was rainy. It was kind of like a day like today. It was

(51:58):
in the summer, but it was rainy. It's just the
mood was beautiful there. I never felt
scared. I didn't feel any negative
energies. I found like a deer antler nearby.
It was really big deer antler. I felt a very heavy
indigenous presence there. I felt a very
loving kind of just this Northwoods kind of feel.

(52:18):
And I thought it was just the most beautiful place. And
I could only imagine what it was like when it was a
fully operational, brand new building. And
now we're just investigating the remains. But there's
definitely something there. And I would love to go
back. Yeah, I would go with Summer Wind. There's some really good books on it.
There's good, legends about story.

>> John (52:38):
One of my guests.

>> KJ (52:38):
But yeah, you need to have.

>> John (52:40):
He went there with the, with the Fox Valley ghost
hunters. They were allowed to go. Yeah. Okay. And
anyway, he did camp there and
ah, when he was camping there, he said really
strange dreams. He was just couldn't sleep. A lot
of dreams about Native Americans and Stuff like that.
Anyway, he wakes up, he goes over to,
you know, some of the people, and they're like,

(53:02):
hey, is that where you put your tent? And he's like,
yeah, I didn't want to sit next to the
woods and get eaten alive by mosquitoes. They like,
that is a burial mound. So he had
literally slept on, Native American.
Yes, Native American. Yeah, yeah,
yeah, yeah. Literally stepped on, yeah, yeah.

(53:22):
And he was like, yes,
I was. But yeah,
but summer, when they have tried to restore
it.

>> KJ (53:31):
Yeah. S true.

>> John (53:33):
Hasn't really gone anywhere. People have
talked about building on it, but basically
people have said, you got to be careful. There
is really something here, whether you believe it or not. There's
some great stories, great books on it,
and it's absolutely, really. It's really cool. It's something you
wouldn't think would be in Wisconsin. And it's absolutely

(53:53):
gorgeous up there. I mean, it's just
beautiful. And you want, you know, you'd be like, yeah, no
wonder I'd build a mansion up there. If I had the time and money.
Sure. What the hell?
So let me ask you this. If you could go anywhere
in the world if you had an unlimited
check, blank check. And nobody uses checks
anymore, but here you go. where would you go? Anywhere in the

(54:13):
world. Here's your blank check.

>> KJ (54:15):
Anywhere in the world. Use checks.

>> John (54:17):
I gosh, you know, it is tough. It's
tough for all My guest.

>> KJ (54:21):
This is a tough one because I like haunted stuff, but I
like. I like ancient alien stuff too. I mean, we could go on a
whole tangent about that. I like
archaeology. I like some of these places they're
discovering that are just rewriting what we think we
know about, like, the pyramids. Like, now there's something about.
There's things under the pyramids. Now I'm like, oh, okay,
sure, of course. I mean, that just seems, like too obvious an

(54:44):
answer. But there' Gosh, I don't know.

>> John (54:46):
I'm sorry.

>> KJ (54:47):
This is hard. You're giving me a blank check. I'm not good
at being put on the spot. Maybe I. You.
No, no, I know where would go. I would go
to. Oh, what's it
called? Oh, I'm so embarrassed. There's a place in, Peru
or Chile.

>> John (55:02):
Draw a blank.

>> KJ (55:03):
These giant blocks that look like the
letter M
Sukalo going like this. It's not
sexy, Mom. That's different. I like that
architecture, that block style architecture.

>> John (55:16):
Yeah.

>> KJ (55:16):
It's like somewhere in the Nazca lines and it's
just way up on a mountain they're like H shaped blocks
and it's, it's some, it was a
ginormous building
structure that has just been obliterated.
We can't, nobody can figure out how is obliterated because these are
like tens of thousands of
pounds of rock that have fallen

(55:38):
over and nothing can do that unlessaw
explosion or like a great.

>> John (55:43):
Well, we'll figure it out. Yeah.
So my answer and my answer
is always the same. That is
Transylvania. That's where I want to go. There
is again, I can't state it
enough. That's a beautiful, it's
untouched. Because basically
they, they when Hollywood needed a place to

(56:05):
be, like let's make a spooky place where Dracula hangs
out and monsters you everywhere. They picked
this place for whatever reason. it's not that
people I don't think are scared there. It's just not like
yeah, I guess I'd go there. But if you
look at pictures, just look at pictures on
Google it'the castles are
untouched, the land is untouched.

(56:27):
It's not a tourist destination. They have like
cobble roads still. I mean it's
insane. Course Draculas
castle is there which that's where they make
their money per se. So yeah, I
would go there absolutely. Just check it
out for a week and just run around and just
have a grand old time. Because again, like I said,

(56:49):
it's what? Yeah, it's not touch. It's not. People
just don't think about it. It's kind of like the back. Yeah. maybe, I
don't know, kind of attitude. So that's
mine. So. Okay. Okay. There we
go. There we go. Awesome.

>> KJ (57:03):
I found the name of the place.

>> John (57:04):
Awesomeuma Punku.
We're off. So I want
to go therej. You're awesome. I could talk to you for
hours. You're amazing. Thank you so much
for bringing the energy. You're one of my favorite guests. Why
don't you tell my spooky friends
about what's coming up? You know, you were talking about
with mad city ghost walks and stuff and you doing some

(57:27):
tour. not tours, excuse me, lectures. You just, you know,
so they can maybe catch you if they're in the area.

>> KJ (57:32):
Catch me in the area? Well, come on. The ghost tours. So
it's madcity ghostwalks.com
because we're a mad, mad city
and we'll be doing cemetery tours starting
this spring, which is kind of like now.
So take a look at the website. Well,
I'm going to Gettysburg in a few weeks, so I'll Be
posting pictures of that. I'm on

(57:53):
Instagram. I am doing some more
writing. I just kind of going
with whatever the universe leads me.
I really want to go on a paranormal investigation. I just got to think
of a place to go. I'm just. You can follow my
page on Instagram. You can put links up and stuff. I
love to photograph abandoned buildings. I like to go places. I like to

(58:14):
learn people's stories. So, I'm hoping to
speak at a conference in Gettysburg in August.
That's in. That's. I've. I've requested
that. I don't know if I'm going to do that yet, but I really hope to because
I love to talk about stone tape, ah, theory. I've done a lot of
research on it. I want to keep doing more research. So if
you have interesting weird science I

(58:34):
like to call it to share, please let me know. I love
to, I love to learn the paranormal
implications of some of the scientific discoveries we're
making now.

>> John (58:43):
Absolutely.

>> KJ (58:44):
Think about things a little differently. And looking at life and death,
definitely.

>> John (58:47):
Have you back on because we didn't get to have the things
I wanted to talk about. and like I said, you, you're one of
my favorite guys because you brought a lot of energy and
amazing stories and everything like that. And
one thing I'm going toa share with you if I can figure this
out, and maybe we can figure this out together
is there is a cemetery near my
house that I've always wanted to invest the

(59:10):
game. So I'm gonna go out and do a
little bit of scouting reconnaissance, see,
see what, what it looks like if it's even, you
know, worth it. And then, I'm probably gonna reach
back out to you if you'd like to come out and maybe we do some
investigations. That would be awesome. And
also I reached out to some of my paranormal investigation

(59:30):
friends who have been doing this for years and have been
to cemeteries all over the United
States. I'm going toa have them kind of help me a little
bit of. Kind of what we can do. And
also if I can figure it out, if
technology does blow up, I would love to
do a live feed. You know, if you join me, that
would be great. You know, and we could go out

(59:53):
there, if. Not that I totally understand. And then we could
go out there, do a live investigation, see what we find.
Because this cemetery, to me, it's off the
road. It's not a big cemetery. I posted
the pictures on Instagram, at least of the
entrance. I've never been in it, but it's
just bizarre. Like, it's like. Like, just
like they put it in the woods like they

(01:00:15):
said. Okay, all right.

>> KJ (01:00:17):
Yeah, I've been to that one.

>> John (01:00:18):
I.

>> KJ (01:00:19):
And it's different. There's some really interesting graves there.
I won't spoil it for you, but there's some decor. Decorative
graves, interesting stories.

>> John (01:00:27):
And down the road is right down the
roadaveelf.

>> KJ (01:00:30):
I will go with you.

>> John (01:00:31):
The gravesites, Frank Lloyd Wright, his mother, I
believe that's right there. It's like a little church
there. And I was say ``ing maybe we can figure this out in the summer.
We can do something so we have a lot of fun. So. Kj, you're
the best. I love you. This was awesome.
Like I said, I'll have you back on sometime when the show comes
out. I'll let you know. But, you know, again,

(01:00:51):
please go to Mad City Ghost walks.
KJ is gonna do you right. She's gonna,
you know, she's gonna show you everything there is the know about
Madison. It's a great town. Also a great place to
get to drink or two if you want, or a great
meal. So if you want to do that too. So it's definitely
worth it. So thank you so much for taking time out
of your day and spending it with me and my spooky

(01:01:14):
friends.
All right. awesome. Thanks. Stay spooky.

>> KJ (01:01:18):
My pleasure. Thanks for having me. We'll see
you again.

>> John (01:01:21):
Love it.

>> KJ (01:01:22):
Oay I do.

>> John (01:01:23):
Stoped.