Spirit Guides & Demonic Defense: Deborah Paranormal Paradigma + The Devil Made Me Do It Case

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker A (00:00):
Friends, this is John, your host of Dairyland Frights.
And make sure wherever you listen to DairylandFrights to rate and subscribe this give us
five stars.
We truly appreciate it and make sure you give
us a review so we can see how we can improvethe show, make it better and stay spooky.

(00:30):
Hello, my spooky friends, this is John andwelcome to another episode of the paranormal
podcast Dairyland Fright, where we covereverything spooky and creepy mysterious in the
Midwest and beyond.
And boy,
I am every time Deborah comes on this show, goback and listen to the past episode.

(00:50):
She makes this show better.
She makes my day brighter.
She makes everything about it so much better.
And is it is some of my most downloadedepisodes for a reason because Deborah's
awesome and we all love her.
So yay.
Hi, welcome, Deborah.
And again,
I can't say enough good words about Deborahbecause it please go out to and Deborah will

(01:16):
talk about it.
But really when she does her content and
she'll talk about that and everything,
she truly wants to help people in a differentway.
She can help and I'll let Deborah, why don'tyou talk about that?
Because I love it and I. And I always try toshare it as much as I can and like it and try
to get you in front of more people than I canthat who,

(01:37):
who need help, whether it's paranormally wiseor.
Or just, you know, getting their life togetheror whatever.
Right?

Speaker B (01:52):
Yes.
Yes. Thank you, John. Always a pleasure to behere.
And I'm just really excited to be talkingabout these things, especially during this
month.
As you mentioned earlier, it is May for Mental
Health Month, so I'm really excited to be partof this conversation.
So what do I do?I mean, I do a few.
I don't know how to really categorize myselfor kind of put myself in a little bit like a

(02:13):
neat little box for people to be like, oh,yeah, like that's that.

Speaker A (02:16):
Yeah, right.

Speaker B (02:16):
I feel like, you know, I have right now bit of things that I help people do.
So when I started Paranormal Paradigm, thewhole point was to kind of have a safe space
to talk about paranormal experiences in a waythat allowed you to express yourself freely
without fear of being judged or withoutfeeling crazy and trying to feel a little bit

(02:41):
more connected to others with similarexperiences and get a little bit more clarity
or closure as
to why these things were happening to you.
It was sort of like,
you know, a way to kind of open up the doorsto this sort of conversation because there's
so much stigma around the topic of havingparanormal experiences, especially within the

(03:03):
more religious realms and even, like, science,you know,
more scientific realms.
So I was like, well, you know, we really need
a space for this so that anybody who has anunexplainable or paranormal experience can
kind of come to somebody who's had paranormaland unexplainable experiences and can

(03:24):
definitely help you navigate, you know,through the uncertainty and the fear and the
stigma and the criticism and just the doubtthat comes with it.
All right, so that happened, and that wasgoing really well.
I was doing group sessions and, you know,doing one on ones with clients and really kind

(03:45):
of providing this very sort of just casual,safe space for people to express themselves.
And that has since evolved because I havesifted.
I have since evolved.
And so now I'm a medium.
And when I started this, I was intuitive.
I was doing tarot readings.
I was definitely researching and gettingmyself,

(04:05):
you know, acquainted with the paranormal andspiritual spheres because they, to me, are the
same.
There is really no distinction other than the
terminology and the connotations associatedwith the terms, but really it's the same.
So.
So at some point last year, I entered into mymedium ability.
So I became a channel or a bridge between thisworld and the next.

(04:29):
Something that I had never thought that wouldhappen to me in a million years.
Especially those of you that have listened tome, you probably already know that I'm a
former atheist.
So, like, for me, like, this was like a big.
A big deal.
But I started doing readings.
So medium readings, like normal medium
readings.
And I started realizing that I can.

(04:51):
I can do something different.
Like I was,
you know, channeling and providing informationin a way that I haven't seen in the spiritual
spheres as of yet.
I mean,
excuse me, can it exist?Of course.
We're like, in a world where there's like,more than 8 billion of us humans.
So I'm sure that I'm not the only human thatdoes this.

Speaker A (05:14):
Yeah.

Speaker B (05:14):
However,
you know, it's not.
It's apparently a very rare situation.
And I think, you know, you and I had areading, and as you know, I don't know if you
remember, like, I was.
I wasn't the one speaking to you.
It was a spirit guide.
Yeah.
So I realized, ****, I can.
I'm connecting to people's spirit guides,like, their family, because a lot of our

(05:36):
spirit guides are family from past lives andother lifetimes.
And I was like, okay, this is cool.
And then the things that kept coming up as I
was doing readings, and this just became like,you Know, like unanimous.
Like something just consistent across theboard was healing all these spirit guides
coming through and then telling their.

(05:56):
They're human.
You know, the human.
Hey, like this is.
You gotta do this and you should focus on
this.
There was topics of self abandonment, abuse.
Oh my gosh.
Relationship trauma.
Sexual abuse also has come up a lot too.
Feminine wounds, shadow wounds.

(06:17):
And then all these things started to come upand I was like, yeah.

Speaker A (06:20):
Whoa.

Speaker B (06:23):
Okay.
Yeah, yeah, yeah,
yeah.
And it was like heavy stuff.
And then these.
These people were like, well, how do I heal
this?
And that's when I had the idea.
I was like, well, heal it with your guides.
Like, let me serve as that intermediarybetween you and your spirit guide.

(06:44):
And who better to heal you than your ownfreaking spirit?
Like the.
The being that was sent to with you to like,
guide you through your life.
Right.
I continue to do medium readings in thismanner where I serve as a channel.
And oftentimes like 99 of the time, it's aspirit guy coming through with maybe sometimes

(07:09):
a family member also.
And a lot of messages of healing come through,like, exactly where these subconscious wounds
are coming from.
And then what I'm doing is those that areinterested in furthering the.
Their healing journey and kind of going deeperinto their healing journey, I provide a space
where they can connect to their spirit guide.

(07:30):
And then their spirit.
Spirit guide is the one who delegates or kind
of takes over the session and kind of allow.
Helps the human.
You. Helps you.

Speaker A (07:46):
Right?

Speaker B (07:47):
At a subconscious level.
So this is actually subconscious work that the
spirit guide allows, like, helps you achieve.
So it's things like removing blockages,
working with different parts of yourself,
subconscious healing, you know, kind of likesometimes even trauma work and just like.
But in a very spiritual and a very safe way.

(08:09):
Because one of the things that I really do
love about spirit guides is that they're veryconscious of what you can take and what you
can handle,
what you can't take and what you can't handleat the moment.
So they,
you know, take it easy on you and.
And they, you know, help you try to come to
your own with these realizations, but at apace that's safe and that as long in a way

(08:32):
that helps you feel supported and not judged.
And I find that people that have been workingme for me with for months now are flourishing.
Like, they.
They tell me like, oh my God, like Deborah,
I'm.
I would have never expected, but I'm entering
into my own spiritual abilities and then I'mhelping them with that.
I have mostly Women.
I'm actually.

(08:52):
Right now, I'm all.
Only women are working with me, but I like to
work with men.
But anyway.
But only women have come forward.
But so.
And then there are.
Women are saying, like, I'm feeling moreempowered.
Like, I'm feeling more confident in myselfand, like, putting in these boundaries.
And I was like, yes.
And just, like, they have these aha moments.
And I get, you know, these beautiful messages

(09:13):
saying, like, thank you.
Like, and in my head, I'm like, it's not me,
it's your guides.

Speaker A (09:19):
Right?

Speaker B (09:20):
But, like, I know that I'm providing that kind of space for them, and I
haven't seen anything else like this.
And I just.
I'm really grateful that I'm able to do thisand work with both the spirit realm and people
and kind of merged and can provide that bridgefor them and then do this healing.
And I guess it's an alternative form ofhealing that can even support people in their

(09:43):
therapy, too, if they are going to therapy,which I have a few that go to therapy, and
then they come to me, and then it's just likethis extra support system that they have.
And I think it's beautiful.
And that's what I'm doing now, and that's how
I help people.

Speaker A (09:55):
And. And that's absolutely amazing, as always.
Let's get to the men here.
Why?
There are no men yet.
I will help you with that.

Speaker B (10:03):
Okay?

Speaker A (10:04):
I will.
I will help you with that.
Since I'm a man, like, classifies as one, Iguess.

Speaker B (10:09):
Yes.

Speaker A (10:10):
We cry in our beer, Deborah.
We just get our beer.
We just cry,
and then we're.
I'm so sad.
Like, we gotta get out of our own way, per se.
I realized that. And I'm.
I'm slowly.
I'm slowly moving up.
I'll use me as an example.
I'm slowly moving up from different thingsI've dealt with.

(10:31):
Okay.
And I want to say.
I've already said this numerous times on this.
On this podcast, but I'll say it again.
The reason I did not put Deborah Spirit Guyrecording, because it was very personal.
It was very emotional for me,
but it let me think about a lot of differentthings.
Okay. And it made me.

(10:51):
I want to be a better man.
I want to be a better everything,
you know?
And it's really hard.
You know what I'm saying?
Everybody knows that just to be a good personnowadays takes a lot of strength, right?
Not want to be like, ooh,
you're going to get you for that.
But with your spirit guides.

(11:13):
Getting back to that,
what Deborah showed me was.
It wasn't.
And I want to clarify this.
It wasn't like,
woo, woo.
Like, you know, she puts on a cap and she has
like a glow.
One of those crystal balls.
No, she very.
She was very.
Our session was.

(11:33):
She was very forward with me, very caring,
very delicate, knowing, you know, when she wastalking to me.
And she would do that with you guys, you know,so don't feel like I'm a man.
You know, it's okay to cry, dudes.
It's.
It's.
It's okay.
But, you know, she.
Again, what Deborah said, she was not telling

(11:55):
me to.
About my health and about some other things
she.
She brought up.
The spirit guides were.
And the way she did it was very.
It wasn't scary.
Okay?
So let's eliminate that, because some peopleget scared.
What is like, something's going to come out ofDeborah's eyes and like, oh, my God,
you watch too many movies.
Relax.

(12:16):
Okay?No, that's not happening.
No, she's going to get you into the sessionwith asking some questions, going from there.
And again,
I cannot stress it enough.
It is not.
Deborah, like, go is your spirit guide guides.
I have four of them.
Deborah told me, which was.
There we go.
But we talked about things that needed to betalked about again, like about my health and

(12:38):
some other personal things, dealing with myfamily.
And, you know, again,
it made me feel so good because,
Deborah, I've spoken to other mediums sincethat.
I'm sorry.

Speaker B (12:48):
It's.

Speaker A (12:49):
You're still my number one.
You're still my number one.

Speaker B (12:52):
Yes.

Speaker A (12:54):
You're always.
You always be my number one.
I always come home to you.

Speaker B (12:59):
Thank you.

Speaker A (12:59):
Oh, yeah.
I always come home to you.
Don't worry about that.
Anyway, and one of the things.
Some of them just did a generic reading forme.
Just, you know, they were like, do you want meto do a full reading?
And I said, well, maybe later.
But they just did a generic reading.
And they said the same thing my spirit guide
said.
It was just basic stuff.
And they're like, stop beating yourself up.
Like, you're.
You're a good person.

(13:21):
You're a good father.
You know, stop.
I see that you're like, your anxiety is
driving you from not being the person you wantto be.
You got to get to get away.
That's exactly what Deborah said in differentwords.
Okay. And that was like, yeah, I do do that.
I do get like, I have a ton of anxiety.

(13:41):
And, you know, it's really.
It gets me, like, I beat Myself up.
I'm like, oh, I made a mistake.
Oh, no, I'm a terrible person because I made
that mistake.
And it's just like, you made a mistake.
You're human.
It's all right.
Let's move on.
Let's keep focusing, you know, don't.
You know?And again, someone was personal with my family
that Deborah brought up that I didn't want toput out there.

(14:02):
Not because Deborah didn't do a great job.
And it was super interesting, and it blew me
away.
It was just like, I don't want people to know
this.
You know what I mean?
Like, got too far.
And that.
Deborah, you can speak on that, if that's whatyou're thinking, too, right?
To come to Deborah and you want to.
You want to do what you're going to do.
What?And maybe.

(14:22):
Maybe you bring up.
That's why women are a little more open.
But to guys I see out there, it's okay to belike, man, my life isn't working out.
It may not be that.
It may be paranormal.
Maybe you had something when you're a littlekid, and it just.
Maybe you're not scared of ghosts, but maybeyou're scared of relationships, because,
I don't know, maybe that has some effect.

(14:44):
Maybe there's some correlation, connection.
I. I have no idea.
The only way you're going to find out is reach
out to Deborah and, you know, kind of walkthem through that.
Deborah, like, you know.
You know, it's hard, right?
You know that it's.
When your spirit guide is telling personal
things, it's like, how do I. How do I.

(15:05):
What?How do I deal with this?
Right?And that's a big thing.

Speaker B (15:09):
Yeah, absolutely.
You know, I. This is why I try my hardest to
just make sure that,
you know, when I do these readings, who Ispeak to is feeling comfortable.
They're not feeling weirded out.
Like, I try to, like, make sure.
I kind of, like, depending on how I'm feelingor how, like, the reading is going, I'll stop
in the middle and be like, am I channelingcorrectly?

(15:31):
Does this resonate with you?
You understand, like, making sure that theperson feels comfortable because oftentimes
these topics are a little bit more deep andpersonal.

Speaker A (15:40):
Right?

Speaker B (15:40):
And the cool thing is that, like, you know, again, spirit guides know your
limits.
So they're very careful as to, you know,
whether they kind of brush it.
Like, they're a little more.
More like, general with the info.
If they're a little more specific with the
info, like, it's.
It's so Interesting how they navigate this
space.
But it's interesting with men.

(16:01):
And again, I haven't done healing sessions
with men, but I have done readings with men.
Right.
Like normal reading.
And one of the things that tends to be a
problem at the moment with men is the heavyreliance on logic and logos.
You understand, the very male or not, I mean,masculine, it doesn't have to be male, but the

(16:24):
very masculine tendency to be like,
well, only objective truth or objectivereality or rational information or logical
information is true.
And women are a little bit more open naturally
to the unknown or the esoteric.
Men are more exoteric.

(16:44):
Right.
So it's just a little harder to, like, getthrough men because of this sort of a
separation from the spiritual.
Like, they want to make everything logical.
They want to understand everything from alogical perspective,
while women have a tendency to want to deepentheir understanding and kind of go more

(17:07):
profound and are not very.
Are not necessarily, you know, afraid of that
more unknown energy,
reality, and they're willing to explore it.
Typically.
Typically.
Obviously, this.
This is not true for everybody, but that justtends to be the greater trend, which is why
when it comes to healing sessions, it's just alittle harder.

(17:29):
Because,
you know, I'm not, you know, I'm not claimingI'm a therapist.
I'm not.
But, you know, somebody's like, oh, you're
healing.
Oh, it's a spirit guide.
This is spiritual.
And I'm like,
okay, you know, like, hey, what am I going todo?
But it's okay.
Somebody will.
I'll get some men in the future.
I know I will.
It'll.

Speaker A (17:49):
Absolutely.
Well, yes, absolutely.
I'm not worried about that.
Yeah.
I mean,
the main thing to remember is that this worldhas been sort of more difficult to navigate
through on certain things.

Speaker B (18:07):
Yeah.

Speaker A (18:08):
I mean, you know, years past, most people just pushed it down.
Right.
They just push things down.
Yeah, I'm not going to talk about that.
We don't talk about that.
You know, like.
And I think that's part of a problem, too,
when I talk, to have.
Talking to paranormal investigators and stuff,
kind of switching topics a little bit here andwhere they have said, you know, they have been

(18:29):
touched or scratched or, you know, had someweird, maybe entities come home with them.
And I'm. And I'm. And I'm like, yeah, that's.
That's a thing you got to deal with.
Right.
And that's a thing that could mess anyone up,
including me, yours truly, to have somethinglike that.
But it's good.
It doesn't have to Be.

(18:50):
It can be anything.
You know, you're just dealing with life and,you know, going through some things.
And that's what your spirit guides are therefor, to say, hey, everything's gonna be okay.
Right?And they're gonna walk you through certain
things, and that's where you help kind of, youknow, guide however you need to do to make
sure that person understands you're not alone.

(19:10):
Even when you feel alone, you're not alone,right, Deborah?

Speaker B (19:13):
Absolutely there is.
I mean, that's just a.
It's an illusion, you understand?I mean, in many senses, not.
Obviously,
that's the thing, right?Like, there's an objective reality, there's a
metaphysical reality or a subjective reality.
And while you might be alone, in a sense in
the physical realm, right.

(19:34):
Let's say you lose somebody, that person isstill with you, that conscious energy can.
It does still linger and you can still connectto it.
So, no, you're not ever truly alone.
No one is.

Speaker A (19:46):
Yeah,
absolutely.
Anything else you want to mention about that?
You know, obviously we'll give all theinformation on the episode notes and
everything, but anything else you wanted totalk about before we get to our story today?

Speaker B (19:57):
I mean, there's so much to talk about, but I think.

Speaker A (20:02):
No, go ahead.

Speaker B (20:03):
You know, it's so important to realize that what your spirit guides want from
you ultimately is for you to heal.
And the reason that this is so important,
right.
There is a supernatural or paranormal
extraordinary connection here, is that onceyou heal yourself,

(20:25):
right?Once you heal your.
Once, it's like what they tell me.
It's like once the con.
What's in your consciousness aligns withwhat's in your subconscious.
And you're able to heal both, right?
Because as they tell me, they're like, hey,whether you know it or not, your subconscious
is running the show.
And if your subconscious is holding on to a

(20:45):
lot of wounding and pain, it's going to stillcontinue to reflect in your reality whether
you're conscious of it or not.
So if you really want to see a reflection or achange in your physical environment, in your.
Your environment,
then you have to kind of heal thissubconscious component.
Component of you.
And the whole point of this and what they have

(21:06):
me understand is once you heal yourself, youcan heal the ego, you know, or you can temper
the ego and you heal the soul.
You find your purpose.
Because your purpose, people think that your
purpose is something external from you.
Your purpose is not something external from
you.
Your purp is you.
What are you?
Who are you remembering who you are.

(21:27):
And you know that's then going to reflect in
your environment, because now you're alignedto who you are, what you remember, who you
are, what you came here to do.
Once you heal all these woundings in thisprogramming, then you start to move according
to all these things that you've healed.
You're integrating, and then that's when you
start to align and manifest the things thatyou want.

(21:47):
And you create this abundant, bountiful, like,plentiful life,
which was your purpose to begin with, right?But you just kind of forgot or you were
programmed differently.
And so why this is so important is because so
many of us are out here living this life, andwe're like, well, what does this mean?
Why am I here?

(22:07):
What am I meant to do?And they get into this, like, oh, my God.
Oh, my God.
Oh, my God.
And all of them say the same thing.
Like, all the guys I've worked with were like,
heal, heal your consciousness.
Hear what's in your consciousness.
Hear what's in your subconscious.
Align those two.
And then you will find your purpose again.
You will remember, and that will start toreflect.
And that's where the axiom, like, as above, sobelow, what they want you to do is merge,

(22:32):
right?
Like, do the thing that, like, you were taughtto do thousands and thousands of years ago
before, like, things became systematic andpower became a problem, and so did greed and,
you know, all these things.
But what I'm trying to say is, like, you know,this is not only important for you as a human

(22:52):
in this physical world for your mind to heal,but it's also important for you to heal in a.
Like, in a soul form, like, for your spirit,
so that it can grow and advance and moveforward.
And so you're kind of working both planes herewhen you're doing the internal work.
And, you know, once you do that internal workand you really do it and you really get it,

(23:14):
and it really clicks, that's when everything'sgonna start to,
like, align and, like, move forward andmanifest for you.
Because a lot of times what people complain tome about, they're like, well, Deborah, like,
I. It's like, I'm doing the work and I'mhealing, but I can only get, like, all these
things happen, but then I get stuck,
or I don't manifest completely, or, like, Idon't get everything I want.

(23:34):
And it's like, well, that's because we stillgot things to work on.
You got to go deeper.
That can go into a whole nother thing.
But I guess what I'm trying to Say is rememberyour mental health is also tied to your soul's
health or your spirit's health.
Right.
So once you start to heal mentally,
you're also healing spiritually because it'sall mental, it's all psyche, you understand,

(23:55):
it's all conscious.
So, you know, just learning the connection andunderstanding that this world is mental and
everything here is like a coming.
This is why psychology is so important and so
big is just that there are people out therewho understand that all that we have,
everything around us is a reflection of ourmind.

(24:17):
So heal the mind and then you heal the soul.
It's the same thing.

Speaker A (24:20):
Absolutely.
Couldn't, couldn't have said it better myself.
And again,
Deborah is available for you.
Reach out to her.
I don't know if you're still doing,
you know, pay me what you can kind of thing,but you know, yes.

Speaker B (24:38):
All readings, everything that I do is pay what you can.

Speaker A (24:41):
That's.

Speaker B (24:42):
I'm not sure if I'm going to start the paranormal group sessions again.
I haven't had time for them but thosetypically were free.
But yeah, if, like if anybody's having issuesand they, they need help with a medium reading
or a healing session or you know, they haveparanormal experience, paranormal things.
Yeah, everything is what you can.
There's nothing set price.

Speaker A (25:04):
Bring it, bring it on.
I love it.
Love it.
So let's get to our story tonight because thisis one of my favorite ones which by the way,
we will have a discussion me and you at theend here because this is a case.
What if there's my teaser for, for my spookyfriends.
What if I told you there was a man whocommitted murder and claim that he did it

(25:27):
because he was possessed by the devil.
Okay, so this case is the true story by theway, of David Galletso.
And what happened was supposedly, allegedly.
It centers around a series of alleged demonic
possession and related events that unfolded in1980 and 1981 will be in the trial of Arne

(25:56):
Johnson, who was charged with manslaughterafter a stabbing incident.
David Gletso, the 11 year old brother ofDebbie Gletso, began experiencing unusual
behavior and claimed to be possessed by ademonic entity.
His family,

(26:17):
by the way,
did, including his mother Judy, did seek helpfrom the church and eventually the Warrens who
experienced, investigated, excuse me, the caseand conducted exorcism.
So this is the one of the first cases.
Not,
I don't think it's the first case.
If you go back in history, I'm sure if you go

(26:40):
back to Salem Witch trials and everything likethat.
But this is in the 80s, so it's not too farlong ago.
Don't date me, okay?I was alive, you know, a little.
I was in middle school in the 80s.
Okay.
So don't, you know, get on my case.
But anyway, anyway,
this is one of the first cases that theyactually use as a defense because normally

(27:04):
uses a defense,
some type of you're not stable mentally,right?
Mentally unstable, it's usually a defense.
So this one's the first one where they used
the devil and being possessed as the reasonwhy this happened.
So Deborah, do you know anything about thiscase?
Have you read anything about this?

(27:26):
Did you see the movie the Conjuring?The devil made me do it.

Speaker B (27:29):
I'm a little not versed in murder trials and cases.
So tell me more.

Speaker A (27:37):
Yeah, yeah, okay, Great, great, great, great.
Watch the movie, Watch the movie.
By the way,
a lot of liberty is taken.
I don't know if you're in the horror movies.
Are you into horror movies?
And I don't think I asked you that.
A little.

Speaker B (27:53):
They've been ****.
But like I just, I like good horror movies.

Speaker A (27:57):
So,
you know, so yeah, so.
So this movie is not what I would say a horror
movie in the sense of, you know, runningaround the chainsaw, stabbing people,
half naked women screaming, running down thestreet.
You know, it's not really that it reallyfocused on this case like I said.

(28:17):
And here's a more detailed break breakdown.
So David Gletzel, what he reported,
experienced visions of a demonic entityspeaking to him in Latin and threatening his
family.
His family noticed unusual behaviors likespasms, convulsions and unexplained bruises.

(28:39):
He eventually they, like I said, went to gethelp and the Gletzel sought a sister from the
church at first and then priests and theneventually the Warrens and they're known as
paranormal investigators.
If you don't know an Ed and Lorraine Warrenare.
I'm actually do a story on them.
They're a very interesting couple.
They brought really in the 70s broughtparanormal kind of to the forefront.

(29:03):
However, more investigation into them is alittle bit sketchy about their relationship
and some other things they have done.
By the way, side note, Annabelle is on tour
right now.
They're taking it to different cities andeverything.
And if you know anything about the Annabelledoll, it's not like the movie.

(29:26):
It is a raggedy,
A raggedy man.
Basically.
Supposedly if you touch it, you're cursed.
And well, that's a whole different episode.
I'm not really sure about that.
But anyway, one of the things is with Gletzel,
he kept on.
It was really weird.
They were trying to figure out if it was like
drugs, if it was.
This is the 80s, remember?

(29:46):
So they, they did.
Everything was drugs, right?
Everything was, it's drugs, he's on drugs,right?
And like, no, that was not.
He was not really taking any medication
because again, this is the 80s.
We did not diagnose depression, bipolar,
autism, all these ones we are trying to ADHDthat we're trying to catch up now in the 80s

(30:08):
was not possible.
So he would wake up, just kind of give you an
idea.
Like he would wake up with bruises all overhis body and you know, people think he's, you
know, self harming himself.
No, he claimed not.
Also he would like, like go like a rabid dogsometimes.
Like he would like look at person and thenjust start like, like he's foaming at the
mouth and he would just start shaking andconvulsing and his parents would be like

(30:33):
trying to hold him down and trying to calm himdown and he would just, it would just go off
all the time.
So eventually what they did is they decided todo an exorcism to coerce what they thought was
a demon that had possessed him.

(30:54):
By the way,
as the story goes,
people believed he was possessed by not onedemon by but up to 30 demons had possessed
him.
So eventually they did an exorcism on him.
Now this, again, this is the 80s and Deborah,anytime you want to chime in,

(31:15):
they did not have the opportunity.
You're asking probably to yourself when you'relistening to this, go to a doctor,
right?Like we do today, like, maybe he's allergic to
something.
Maybe he's,
you know,
has.
He's on some drugs that are.
Whatever, right?

(31:35):
But they didn't do that.
They immediately went to a priest.
Immediately.
They didn't even think about, let's go to the
doctor, get you checked out and stuff.
I find that a little strange.
They didn't do that.
Do you have any thoughts on that, Deborah?
Like, I think that's a little strange.
Why you at least take them to the doctor and
be like, okay, let's check them out.

Speaker B (31:54):
You know,
maybe before entering my medium abilities,
I would have said, yeah, that's strange.
But after coming into my medium abilities andin the way that they came and what I
experienced for almost a month, actually agood month, and then my family also being
concerned about me and being like,

(32:16):
I'm going to take you to a priest.
No, it doesn't weird Me out because I think
that your family knows you best.
Especially you're saying you're telling methat David was an 11 year old.

Speaker A (32:27):
Correct?

Speaker B (32:27):
Right.
Your family knows you best.
And if your family is like there is nofreaking way, especially an 11 year old that
this can be medical.
Because I know my like if somebody right nowlike was going to do something to my child,
like if my child right now was acting weird, Ime mom, I'm going to know if this is something
more like okay, like this is some sort ofvirus, this is some sort of illness,

(32:51):
this is some sort of mental condition orsomething inside me gonna be like spidey
senses tingling.
I don't know if this is, this is really
mental.
I think this is more of a spiritual thing.
So if the parents were like spidey sensestingling, this is something spiritual.
Let's take him first to a priest.
That doesn't surprise me at all.

(33:12):
Yeah.

Speaker A (33:13):
Now here's another thing I think was really interesting.
And I quote, this is from Arnie, which is hisbrother in law and Debbie his sister and
everything.
I quote, when they saw their brother GletzelDavid, they said it looked like the devil.
And I don't know if I said it looked.

(33:34):
They're just using it instead of.
He I guess looked like the devil from aHalloween costume.
He. And that was Arnie who said this.
And Debbie said his eyes were black,
solid black, just like a chunk of coal.
And it scared me.
So here's the thing.
He would have these convulsions.
They would go in there,

(33:54):
they would try to hold him down, try to likecalm down and everything.
And then his eyes would turn according tothem, black as coal, you know.
And that to me now that again believe what youwant to believe, right?
And that's fine.
But there's something going on, right?And I don't know what that, what that could
be.
So he would too, he would act out like a threeyear old acts out sometimes on too much sugar.

(34:19):
Like he would literally go around the houseand just start smashing stuff and laughing.
So he would like, I don't know, like go in theliving room and he just start throwing things
off, you know, shelves.
And then he'd go in the kitchen and start
throwing things off of there.
And again it's.
He's 11 so you're like okay, I'm not sure what
to make of this.
But they would also say when he laughed he had

(34:42):
like a demonic laugh like from 11 year old.
You're just learning your voice.
You sound like this, you Know what I mean?
You don't have that voice.
And it's just, again,
I guess that's what you would do, like youwere talking about as a parent, try to give
him some help.
So this went on for a little while,
like I said, and then they eventually got apriest to do an exorcism.

(35:05):
And the priest, and this is, I don't think Iwould have done this, but I quote,
so when he was doing that, the priest wasdoing the exorcism, he saw David was
struggling during the exorcism and his sister,
or excuse me, his brother in law, Arnie wouldintervene and say, he would yell.
And I quote, I yelled at this thing at the topof my lungs.

(35:28):
I said, leave this little kid alone.
Take me, I'm here, take me on.
And yes, he would yell there.
Yeah.
And he would,
yeah, go.
I'm sorry, go ahead.
What are you saying?
So here's the thing that would happenaccording to Arnie, that he would say that he

(35:53):
felt, when he would say that, he feel likecoldness come over him,
you know what I mean?
And then it would, it would just go away.
It just go away.
And it would,
I guess, go back in the body of David.
That'd be my guess,
you know what I'm saying?I, I don't know if that's true.
Obviously I was not there,

(36:14):
but Jen and I don't know how often thishappened.
They don't say unfortunately in here how, howoften this happened, but I'm guessing a lot
because they did say he would be normal, likea normal 11 year old.
Like, hey, I'm gonna go get some ice cream andplay baseball or whatever, right?
Just normal stuff.
And bam, he would come back in the house and

(36:37):
immediately things start up.
He'd start busting stuff, his eyes would turnblack.
You know, he'd start convulsing,
start foaming at the mouth.
And you know, when they did this exorcism, by
the way,
there was.
How did you find out?
Well, there were 30 demons in there.
Well, according to the priest, when the demons
started talking to him, he could hear morethan one voice.

(37:00):
And he, I'm guess this is just his perceptionof things that he felt.
There were more than 30 demons in David'sbody.
Again,
I don't know if that's true, but that's a lot.
And I want to back up because one of the
things you're probably thinking is what wasthe house like?
Was it built on a cemetery?
Were the parents like, into Satan was.

(37:24):
No, there's Nothing.
There's absolutely nothing.
I researched it, Deborah.
Absolutely no reason at all for this to
happen.
Zero.
Not that surprise you or not?

Speaker B (37:35):
No. Knowing what I know now about the spirit realm and having dealt with a few
demons myself,
this is actually very on par with a typicaldemonic possession.
And it's just very unfortunate because thesethings are very rare.
But then, you know, when they happen and theyget publicized like this, then that's where

(37:56):
like people get a lot of the information iseither misconstrued or misunderstood.
And then there's like a lot of fear mongeringor like, you know, fear associated with these
things.
But at this whole time, I wasn't even thinking
about the house or the family.
The only thing that I was thinking about was,
who is this kid?Like, what did this kid do?
What happened?Because sometimes children, children are very

(38:18):
susceptible.
Can be.
Not always.
Children are very sensitive and they can bevery susceptible to these types of like,
beings or entities.
So my question is like, what I was thinkingwas, like, what happened to this child that
could have opened this portal?

Speaker A (38:38):
No idea.
Zero. No idea.

Speaker B (38:41):
Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker A (38:42):
So anyway, couldn't.
Nothing was.
I was getting worse.
Okay.
A lot of things are getting worse in thehouse.
And you know, your second question is, get theF out of there.
Right?Leave.
What are you doing?
Well, you got to remember, you can't just.
For some people, they just can't leave,
right?You just can't.
It's their house.
It's where they, you know, love each other andgrew up in.

(39:05):
You just don't be like, I'm out of here.
And that wouldn't have changed anything
anyway, in my opinion.
My opinion.
But this thing was demon or demons was
possessing David.
And he could have went to Idaho in the middle
of the woods.
Wouldn't have mattered is to what happened.
So now you're wondering, okay, the priest isnot working.

(39:26):
Nothing's working.
Why would they call Ed and Lorraine Warren?
That's one of my.
Okay, now they had.
Remember, Ed and Lorraine Warren were on show.
So they were on.
You know, back in the day, there were talk
shows where you would watch because you hadfour channels, if you're lucky,
maybe five.
So you didn't have really any options.
So they were on, you know, all these differenttalk shows, and they had seen them, the family

(39:50):
had seen them and said, okay, we're gonna havethem in.
Come in. So and Lorraine Warren came in and inthe movie, it's.
It's kind of weird, but that's okay.
But anyway, they came in to do an exorcism onDavid.
So when they came,
they immediately knew that David waspossessed.
Like, as soon as they walked in the house,like Ed and Lorraine.

(40:12):
Yep, you're possessed and everything.
Well, they already knew that coming in, butthey had to, like, see, because, you know,
they got a lot of people,
unfortunately, with certain mental, you know,issues that, you know, wasn't true.
So anyway, so went in there and they wentthrough.
And they did, you know, their exorcisms andthings started to calm down for David.

(40:33):
Okay.
Things started to be okay for him for a little
while.
Okay.

Speaker B (40:40):
Yes.

Speaker A (40:41):
Then what happened was he.
Again, things started coming a little bit, you
know, here and there, but it wasn't too bad,and it wasn't the Warren's thought, or maybe
they did think he was fine.
He,
you know, eventually David decided to go onwith his life, which was kind of hard to do.
So he.
He got a job at this apartment building,

(41:03):
like, cleaning up, you know, you know, forlike, you know, like little kids.
Do you know what I mean?Working with his sister, like, doing
housekeeping at this apartment.
And there was a friend who let him do this.
His name was Alan Bono.
And,
you know, he was this.
Allen was kind of a different kind of guy.
Even though he's friend of the family, there'ssome rumors that he was kind of abusive to the

(41:25):
kids and everything.
I don't know if that's true.
Okay, but there are some rumors of that.
But what happened was David had anotherpossession from the devil and he stabbed
Allen,
killing him.
Okay. And when.
That's where.
When they went to trial.
Okay. This was, like I said, one of thebiggest cases at that time, the defense,

(41:49):
you know, because David kept telling him, Ididn't do it.
I didn't do.
I don't remember doing it.
And David does not remember stabbing him.
Okay, doesn't it all.
Not.
Not even the least bit.
Okay. And he did not stab him with like, he
went in the kitchen, got this big kitchenknife.
He had like some little,
I don't say pocket knife, but it was like alittle bit bigger knife you might use for
hunting and stuff, like a lockback knife, youknow, you know that out there where, you know,

(42:13):
a lot of guys carry around, and he stabbed himseveral times, you know, like I said,
killing him.
And again,
when David came out of it, and again, nobodysaw that his eyes turned black or anything
like that.
It was just after David was.
It's like in a movie, right?
Where the person's standing there with theknife and the blood on Their hands.

(42:33):
And you're like, okay, what's going on here?Right.
So when he eventually went to trial and wastalking to the defense, he told him, I'm
possessed by a demon.
You know, Ed and Lorraine Warren have said,
you know, that I'm possessed and everything.
And in the movie and Lorraine Warren kind ofwork a little bit more together than they

(42:54):
actually did an actual event.
Okay.
So there's a little more Hollywood in thatmovie.
And one of the things that was reallyinteresting was this was a landmark legal
event because he was going, David was going toget be sentenced anywhere from 2, 5 to 10 to a

(43:15):
20 year sentence.
Okay.
Basically, he's a kid now.
Remember, he was a little bit older at this
time.
I think he was like 12 or 13.
So he was a little bit older, but he was notan adult.
Okay.
So just to be clear on that one, and one of
the things too,
when they were talking about this court case,you know, the prosecution are like, come on,

(43:37):
there's no demons.
There's no way to prove that in the movie.
Spoiler alert.
In the movie, supposedly the defense attorney
too is like, you really want me to go in andtell the judge that a demon made him do it?
The devil made him do it?Like, no, I'm not going to do that.
I'm going to look like a fool doing that.

(43:59):
So in the movie,
the Warrens say, okay, tell you what, if wecan prove to you there are demons out there,
will you use that?Defense lawyer said, absolutely.
He goes, good, come with us.
And supposedly, allegedly,
they showed the lawyer that they had evidenceof demons and the demons exist.

(44:19):
And I thought that was a really interesting.
Whether that happened in real life,
I don't know.
I can't justify it or, you know, clarify it oranything.
It is in the movie, taking a little, you know,to accept.
So anyway, what was interesting about thiscase is when the defense attorney said, hey,

(44:40):
they're demons.
I see it.
I know there are.
We're going to use that defense.
This is weird.
The judge told the prosecution, because theprosecution is like, my God, this is a slam
dunk.
We're going to be able to prove it.
You know, David's going to go to the jury tojail for a long time.
Well, judge did something interesting.
The judge said,
we're not going to use any evidence when itcomes to the,

(45:05):
you know, the devil and everything like that.
We're just going to use,
you know, what people saw and what everything.
A witness.
Well, there wasn't really any witnesses perse.
And you May say, like, wait a minute, that'stheir defense.
How are they going to win?
Well, now the prosecution has to convince thejury that, hey,

(45:26):
number one, throw out the demon stuff, eventhough they were told there are demons.
And I'm guessing on that jury,
people believe in demons, right?That's my opinion.
And two,
now you got to figure out a different way asthe prosecution to figure out, why did he just
stab him out of the blue?There was nothing.
There was nothing between these guys, eventhough, like I said, allegedly there's been

(45:49):
some, you know, abuse from the friend, butnobody can prove it.
So what was really interesting was theyeventually went through the court case, and
prosecution couldn't prove it.
Jury was basically saying, yeah,
I don't know what to tell you.
Basically,
we can't prove that wasn't the devil, and itwas the devil.

(46:10):
You know, it's just.
He did get a little jail time, by the way, but
it was like one or two years.
So we're just gonna, you know, give him a
couple years and kind of let this kind of casekind of go, you know what I mean?
And nobody really has the answer why thishappened.
It just happened.
And it's a. It's shameful.
And he basically got a manslaughter charge.

(46:32):
If you want to get into legal mumbo jumbo,
saying a podcast for legal bumblebee,
he just got manslaughter, which was like oneto two years, I guess, that eventually he got
for David.
So, I don't know.
I mean, what do you think about this case?
I think there's a lot of my opinion.
Is this,
like, it's so strange, right, that this evenwas brought in front of a court using that as

(46:55):
a defense.
Right.
Because that's kind of unusual to fast, right?
I mean, I don't know.
What do you think, Deborah?
I just think that's a very strange way to gointo court.

Speaker B (47:07):
Well, I mean, it's just making me think, like, look, okay, all right, fine.
It was the 80s.
There was less knowledge.
But I mean, it's not like we were, like, youknow, archaic, and we didn't understand mental
illness in the 80s.
Like, mental illness was definitely kind oflike a thing, and we were.
It was getting some recognition, not maybemainstream, but it was still there.

(47:27):
So it's just really interesting that the.
Like you said, the attorneys kind of tookthis, like,
well, why don't we assess this boy mentally,Right?
Because that's what an attorney or some sortof legal person would do, wouldn't they?
Like, they'd Be like, well, if I don't believein this stuff and this stuff is not real,
okay, well, then let's claim insanity, but notnecessarily demonic possession.

(47:50):
So what's interesting to me is that they tookthe demonic possession route, which only
deepens the case,
like, the profoundness of this case, becauseagain,
like, there was something there that obviouslywasn't.
They.
They knew wasn't mental, it was supernatural,
and they believed it enough to present it to ajury.

(48:11):
Do you understand?

Speaker A (48:12):
Yeah.

Speaker B (48:13):
And that's what's, like, crazy to me.
We're.
I'm crazy.
But, you know, like, it's just so strange tome.
It only kind of further makes me believe thatthis kid was actually a testament of true
possession.
You understand?

Speaker A (48:27):
Yes.

Speaker B (48:29):
Because again, like I was saying before, I would know mental.
See, this is the thing about mental illness.
Mental illness isn't just like a sudden onset
onset, you understand?There's symptoms that come and progress for
years, and they're subtle sometimes.
It's not always like these big, like, whoa.
Very seldom do these things happen, like

(48:50):
psychosis or, you know, hallucinations.
We're not talking about that.
We're talking about something different that
the parents were able to be like, okay, but ifmy daughter's eyes turn black, you can very
well believe I know that that's not a mentalillness, you understand?
So obviously something was here that said theparents are like,

(49:10):
this is something supernatural.
And then to the point where then the attorneysare like,
this is something supernatural,
because obviously it was.
And so it's just really interesting.
And it's a shame.
I mean, I'm glad.
So many things.
I mean, I don't know.
This is just the way I think.
I probably would have done everything to provethat that kid was fine mentally.

(49:33):
And then I would have done crazy researchwith, like, other cases from other parts of
the world about demonic possessions and howthese look and how people and, like, what can
happen to a person and, like, provide this asa case too, you understand?
It seems it didn't go as far, but there'sdefinitely evidence of that all over the world

(49:54):
for freaking millennia.
And it kind of.
He kind of fits the bill.
And it maybe would have gone differently if
they would have actually done their homeworkinstead of being like, oh, that doesn't exist.
Well, you're the attorney.
You should have an open mind as to what is in
the realm of possibility.
And, like, you should absolutely, like, if
you're gonna say this is demonic possession,then do your research.

(50:14):
You understand?So, I mean, there was just a lot There.
Absolutely.
Poor kid, man.

Speaker A (50:19):
Yeah, now it's terrible.
Now, like every good movie, Deborah, there's a
twist.
Are you ready for the twist?
What is the twist?Here's the twist, which I love.
Okay, and this is according.
This was in Time magazine.
I mean, it made national headlines.
So after the trial, Ed and Lorraine Warren

(50:40):
hired an author,
Gerald Brittle, to write down David's story.
Okay, that will make me do it.
Ed said.
This is a quote from Ed Warren.
Ed said, make it scary.
He was told, Carl.
Okay,
excuse me, Gerald. Excuse me.
And Gerald, the author goes, but.
And I quote, when I checked with people andthey said this didn't happen, but Ed and I

(51:06):
quote, said, make it scary.
People come to us,
they buy stuff.
Scary.
Okay,
now this, this 1983 book, I think it's stillon Amazon or wherever you would like to get
it, the Devil in Connecticut, which I got toread it, which turned to an inspirational
inspiration for the 2021 film the Conjuring.

(51:28):
The Devil made me do it at the time.
This is really interesting.
The Gletzel parents received,
check this out.
$4,500 for selling their story,
but the Warrens received more than 81,000.
So, okay,
that's interesting,

(51:50):
right?
And then Lorraine Warren basically told themthat, well, that I was going to be a rich
little boy from having this book deal.
So this is just really weird.
So they told David, hey, you're gonna be arich little boy.
You're gonna be fine.
And he said, and I quote, that was a lie.

(52:12):
The Warrens made a lot of money off of us, andif they can profit off of you, they will.
So, okay, that's a little bit interesting.
Now here's the other twist.
Boy, this is really weird.
So I forgot to make it a little clear.
Arne Johnson and Debbie Gletzel were married.
So Arne Johnson was, you know, David brotherin law.

(52:35):
But I didn't make that clear.
Okay, so 1985,
one of the things they were talking about was,
you know, about the book and all this stuff.
And they were kind of going through some
things because this is like shortly after.
Well, unfortunately, they haven't really keptin contact because of this because this

(52:55):
destroyed their lives, destroyed the Gletzel'sfamily's lives just because they felt they
didn't really.
And I don't know if it was about money, you
tell me, or if it was about the real demonpossession or it was that he did not get the
help he wanted or whatever you want to say,
but they kind of were estranged.

(53:16):
One time,
David Was sorting through some belongings.
Okay.
And he found a note from his mother.
And I don't know why his mother would write
this,
but I quote, well, the family had theirmedicine tonight.
Everything was good.
He believes that.
He believes that David believes that she hadbeen drugging the rest of the family,

(53:38):
including him, with salmonex, a sleep aid, byputting it in their food.
And according to David, Salmonex.
I've never had it.
I don't know if it's still out there.
Has a long lasting effects on people.
Mood swings,
weight gain,
hallucinations.
So it is very possible that David had ingestedenough of this stuff over the years where he

(54:05):
did see things, or at least he thought he sawthings.
Dun, dun, dun.
There's your twist.
So, Deborah, what do you think now?

Speaker B (54:16):
I mean, I think it's the normal thing that people tend to do to downplay these
extraordinary,
I guess, possibility of, you know, spiritpossessions or demonic possessions.
It's always like.
And haven't you noticed that anytime you read
anything with a demonic possession orsomething, there's always like some like
logical reason that comes out of the blue.

(54:38):
A few months it was like, oh, now it's comingout.
It wasn't coming out before, but now it comesout all these like, it's just sort of like,
I'm like,
yeah, okay, whatever.
It's like this tendency for people to just
want to again, find a logical, rational answerfor things that are not fully understood.

Speaker A (55:00):
Absolutely.

Speaker B (55:00):
What's interesting to me is, you know, if it, if his mom was putting the
sleeping aid in all of them, is what she said,then why.

Speaker A (55:09):
I guess so.
I. I guess so.

Speaker B (55:11):
If it's true, right? If it's true.
If it's true.
Shouldn't have all of them experienced some
level of this,
Right?But it was only that kid.
So he was, he just happened to be the mostsusceptible.
Right.
Because he was the youngest, is what they're,
Is that what they're like saying?
Like, I don't know, like it just.
That to me actually seems really not logical.

(55:32):
That just seems like a big flat out lie.
The other stuff seems more interesting, but
like also again, knowing what I know now aboutthe spirit realm, it kind of aligns to a lot
of stuff.
And you said that David now feels like hislife was ruined.
He still believes that this happened to him.
That's normal for people who go through true
spiritual and true, like extraordinaryencounters.

(55:56):
Like a lot of times they don't like thespotlight like that.
Like they want to share their story to helpothers sometimes, but they don't like that
sort of exploitation or like criticism or evenfame because it was deeply traumatic for them.
And so the fact that he feels like this stilland he's felt like this and he felt exploited

(56:16):
by the Warrens again, only more evidence forme that this man,
when he was a child, had a very traumatic,spiritual, unexplainable experience that, you
know, made him do something that he would havenever in a million years thought of doing
otherwise, you understand?
And God knows what triggered it, God knowswhat happened there.

(56:37):
But absolutely for me this is definitelybonafide possession of some sort.
I wouldn't say the devil, because the devil,no, you know, that's a whole other story that
doesn't.
That's okay, we can talk about another time.
But demonic, yeah, absolutely.
More than likely there's some sort of other
negative entity for sure, absolutely.

Speaker A (56:59):
And here's the thing, while we wrap up here, here's the thing.
Most poltergeist, most entities,
not all typically happen around teenagers oranywhere from, I would say 11 to 14 where you
hear, you know, the girl, you know, Whereasthe Enfield poltergeist, whether it's the.

(57:20):
I'm trying to think.
There was this family called the Bush family
poltergeist.
There was like, you know what I mean, like
evil entities.
Because one of the things I've heard, andyou've probably heard this too, and you know,
this is the fact that when people are low,
depressed,
where they think they have nothing left togive, you know what I mean?

(57:41):
Like I'm worthless and I feel like **** andI'm never going to be anybody.
That's where I think entities out there and Ibelieve in evil entities where they go, great,
this is my time, right,
And I'll accept you.
And one of the things is everyone says they

(58:03):
agree upon, at least in the paranormal world,if there's an evil entity, you're never
supposed to speak like some people.
And I've heard this and I've read this,believe it or not, it's up to you.
Or they've said, all right, demon, enter me.
I don't care anymore, just come in.

Speaker B (58:19):
Sorry, like don't do that.

Speaker A (58:21):
Yeah, that's what I mean, that's what I mean, you know, like something,
something happening.
And they're like, well, I don't care anymore.
And that's where that comes in.
So maybe again we can speculate all we want,
but maybe David's going through things 11 yearold goes through.
You know, my voice changing girls call me anerd.

(58:41):
I'm Being bullied, maybe I'm being abused,
maybe you know, all these different things.
And if the mother was putting salmonex in hisface.
Food,
yes.
It's going to give you mood swings because
they tell you when you're taking like any, anyof these drugs to help you sleep, it's going
to give you mood swings, it's going to giveyou all these.
But not to that extreme.

(59:04):
Right?This is extreme.
This is more like you wake up in the morning,oh, I got a good night's sleep and then, you
know, lunch rolls around, you're like, oh myGod,
so tired.
It's like that.
It's not like ah,
running around breaking things and freakingout.
It's not like that.
It's just.
You're like just feel it's a Monday or

(59:26):
something, you know what I'm saying?So this is such a fascinating story to me on
all avenues.
There is a documentary by the way, on Netflix.
I think it's still out there, called the Devil
Made Me do it, where they look at all points,
which is very fascinating.
I watched it a little while ago, I'll probably
rewatch it.
But they look at from all angles.
I highly recommend it.

(59:46):
They look at from the Warren's point of view,
they look at from David's point of view.
They talk to the brother in law,
they talk to.
I think they talked to some police officers or
the lawyers and stuff, I'm not really sure.
Like I said, I watched it months ago.
But it's a great documentary and it really hasmore questions than answers.
Like you just okay, you go.

(01:00:08):
At least I went away with it.
From what I remember I got to rewatch it.
Like I don't know, I really don't know what to
say.
And again, that's where I think in today'sworld we view this a little differently.
But you know, 1980s,
they again didn't have the medicine, thetherapies.
Not to this degree.

Speaker B (01:00:31):
Yeah.

Speaker A (01:00:31):
I just think it's fascinating.
It's a fascinating case and I don't know what
to make of it, to be honest with you.
I'm kind of undecided.
But.
But yeah.
How about you?
What do you think?You kind of mentioned it a little bit.
What was your feeling on this case?Do you have any other feelings about it?

Speaker B (01:00:46):
I mean I think the right answer is I don't know.
Right.
Like that.
Because it's just a reality I have.
Obviously from what I've heard, I can only
infer certain things from my own experiencesand from what I understand and know.
About the spiritual realm.
But obviously I haven't spoken to David, like,
and I haven't spoken to his parents.

(01:01:06):
I haven't spoken to the Warrens.
I didn't see the space, I didn't see thefiles.
I can't make, like, true determination of,like.
But, like, am I true?Like, am I like.
Yeah, this is more a spiritual thing?Yeah, Absolutely.
Am I 100?
Absolutely not.
Like, that would just be right.
Like, you know, that's not cool.

Speaker A (01:01:25):
Absolutely.

Speaker B (01:01:25):
I don't know assumptions like that without 100.
But, like, do I truly believe that this is.
This could definitely be a bona fide case of
demonic processing?Yeah, for sure.
It has all.
It kind of meets all the marks.
You understand?

Speaker A (01:01:37):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely.

Speaker B (01:01:40):
A good person or like somebody who's really interested in.
In true knowledge and, and knowing would dotheir due diligence and research this case.
And now that I know that there's a.
A documentary, I'll definitely check it outbecause I'd be very.

Speaker A (01:01:54):
Let's check it out.

Speaker B (01:01:55):
Yeah, but I think it's.
I would definitely.
I'm inclined to be like,
hypothesis is definite possession.
Do research,
figure it out.
And then the truth is like, will we ever know?
No, Only David knows.

Speaker A (01:02:09):
No, you won't.
No, you won't, because we weren't there.
We didn't see it.
And like I said, there's secondhandinformation coming from the brother in law.
And I believe Debbie is passed on.
But I know,
I think David's still alive, but he's notreally talking about anything.

Speaker B (01:02:27):
And. Yeah, how.
Why would he.
He's probably really tired of it.
He's probably very traumatized from it.
And he probably, like, I would say the onlyone who knows best is him.
And even then, I'm sure he has a lot ofquestions himself.

Speaker A (01:02:38):
Yeah.

Speaker B (01:02:38):
You know, he doesn't fully understand what the hell happened.
So. Yeah,
that's so, again,
bad position.
You know, it's a really, like, tough position.
So I feel really bad.

Speaker A (01:02:49):
Absolutely. So. Well, thank you, Deborah.
This was awesome, as usual.
What do you got coming up for my spooky
friends that they can look.

Speaker B (01:02:58):
Forward to me getting my *** in gear with YouTube?

Speaker A (01:03:02):
There we go.

Speaker B (01:03:03):
Yeah, that is something I can look forward to.
I really want to start doing more contentaround the things that I have learned about
the spirit realm and healing and certaintruths and things that, you know,
are true about this realm that I feel likepeople should know more about and, you know,
help them kind of gain a better understandingof our reality.

(01:03:27):
That's not necessarily geared toward anyreligion or any religious belief.
Just a very kind of more worldly,
broad worldview of how all this is connected.
And then obviously, talk, spooky stuff and
healing stuff and medium stuff and just likeesoteric and occult stuff and even religious
stuff.

(01:03:47):
Like it's going to be everything.
So I'm really kind of looking forward to that.
And other than that,
producing content, doing my medium readingsand my healing sessions and helping people in
whatever capacity that they need help in whenit comes to spiritual experiences or
paranormal experiences or healing, internaland healing.

Speaker A (01:04:08):
Love it.
Love it.
And don't worry, my spooky friends, I willhave Deborah on again.
She can't escape that easy.

Speaker B (01:04:14):
No, no, I can't.
Nor do I want to.

Speaker A (01:04:18):
Love it.
Love it. Yeah. So I will put everything outthere for you again,
like I said, May is mental health month.
I think it should be all around the year, but
that's just me.
But please,
again, help people,
you know, not only friends and family, but ifyou see a coworker, if you see someone in your
neighborhood, please, you know, listen, youknow, try to help them, you know, any way you

(01:04:41):
can.
And sometimes it's not about therapy oranything like that.
It's about just,
hey, what's going on?Let's talk.
And I think people have to understand that,you know, because that's what it all comes
down to.
We gotta start communicating first, start
talking.
And if you do have a spooky story, though,please, theoryvillandfrightsmail.com or reach

(01:05:02):
out to Deborah, let her know.
But again,
this is always awesome.
I hate to let you go, but I know you have to
go and I have to go.
But that's okay.
We would do this again soon enough.
So, again, thank you so much, Deborah, and we
will talk later for sure.
Bye.
Have a great night and stay spooky.
This is John, your host of Dairyland Frights.

(01:05:24):
And make sure wherever you listen to Dairyland
Frights, to rate and subscribe, this give usfive stars.
We truly appreciate it.
And make sure you give us a review so we can
see how we can improve the show, make itbetter and stay spooky.

(01:05:46):
Sam.

All Episodes

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

Dateline NBC

The Breakfast Club

Crime Junkie

.css-15opob5{left:0;position:absolute;top:0.8rem;} All Episodes

.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Spirit Guides & Demonic Defense: Deborah Paranormal Paradigma + The Devil Made Me Do It Case

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

.css-r6mb8g{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:1;overflow:hidden;}Dateline NBC

The Breakfast Club

Crime Junkie

All Episodes

Spirit Guides & Demonic Defense: Deborah Paranormal Paradigma + The Devil Made Me Do It Case

Dateline NBC