The Man in the Walls the chilling true story of Daniel LaPlante – A Total Conundrum Crossover

🕵️‍♂️ True crime meets paranormal mystery! In this episode, John teams up once again with Tracy and Jeremy from the Total Conundrum podcast to explore the chilling true story of Daniel LaPlante—a man who secretly lived inside a family's walls before holding them hostage.

🕳️ What’s inside:

• A deep dive into LaPlante’s disturbing childhood and psychological profile

• Creepy accounts of noises, stolen food, and clothing that vanished

• The terrifying night a family returned home to find their worst nightmare

• The escalation from intruder to triple homicide

• Discussion of the strange overlap between true crime and the paranormal

• BONUS: A hilarious and eerie True or False game featuring bizarre "people living in walls" stories from around the world

🎧 Special Guests: Tracy and Jeremy from Total Conundrum share their thoughts, research, and spooky laughs. Don't miss their previous collab with John on the Doveland mystery!

👻 Whether you're here for true crime, paranormal vibes, or weird real-life stories, this one has it all.

🔗 Links & Extras:

• Listen to Total Conundrum: https://totalconundrum.com/

• Watch the HBO documentary on Daniel LaPlante

• Check out Your Worst Nightmare, Real Murders of Elm Street, and Frogging: Hider in My House

"You checked under the bed... but did you check inside the walls?"

Episode Transcript

Speaker A (00:00):
Foreign.
Hello, my spooky friends.
This is John, your host of Dairyland Frights
in the spookier podcast Nightland Frights.

(00:20):
And I wanted to thank all my spooky friends
out there for listening.
I truly appreciate it.
Please like and subscribe and rate us 5 stars.
It helps me make this a better podcast.
And make sure you comment what guests youwould like me to have on what topics you would
like me to talk about.
It only going to make this podcast better.

(00:41):
So again, thank you so much for listening andplease go to my patreon, check that out.
Become a Parasconi for only $3, a spookyfriend for a dollar.
And remember,
stay spooky.
Hello, my spooky friends.
Welcome to another episode of Dairyland
Frights, the paranormal podcast that coverseverything spooky, creepy and mysterious in

(01:04):
the Midwest and beyond.
And guess what?They came back because they love me and I love
them.
From the Total Conundrum podcast, Tracy andMr. Corundum.
Yes, he has purple hair and I don't know, doyou deserve a story behind the hair?

Speaker B (01:25):
Not really.
I just wanted to look younger.

Speaker A (01:30):
Don't we all?

Speaker B (01:31):
Yeah, I thought it'd be fun.

Speaker A (01:33):
Don't we all? Yes. Awesome.
So let me just tell you guys, Tracy and I havebeen on before.
One of my highest rated episodes, the DoveLand episode.
Basically, go back and listen to it.
It's crazy.
It's about a town that disappeared.
Or maybe it wasn't.
Nobody knows.
It's a fun story.
Like I said, it's one of my highest ratedepisodes.

(01:54):
Tracy and I,
eventually we'll get together, we'll figureout and we'll go and.
And, you know, check it out and bring Mr.
Corundum too, and whoever else wants to come
with us, and we'll have a party and we'llprobably be disappointed, but that's okay.
Maybe we'll have a picnic.
Right, guys?

Speaker C (02:10):
That's right.
Make an adventure out of it.
Either way.

Speaker A (02:14):
Yeah, either way, we'll make it an adventure.
And then I was on their podcast.
We talked about some stories about,
you know, our favorite person and yourfavorite person, Ed Gein.

Speaker B (02:25):
Yeah.

Speaker A (02:26):
Yeah. So that was an interesting episode, guys.
Did you have any nightmares after that?

Speaker C (02:32):
Yeah, I did.

Speaker B (02:33):
I actually had nightmares of you hanging a nipple belt over my head.

Speaker C (02:40):
And I had nightmares of you showing up on our ring doorbell with a knife and a
fork.

Speaker A (02:47):
Yes,
hello.
So you guys, my spooky friends, go and pleaselisten to them.
They have great stories.
You guys had a great catch.
You want to tell them about, hey, Lost Boys,one of my favorite these vampire movies.
Was it 80s?

Speaker B (03:02):
Oh, yeah, it was 80s, yeah.

Speaker A (03:04):
Yeah. So, you know, that's an episode I loved.
Please tell my spooky friends about it so theycould check it out.

Speaker C (03:10):
Well, we went to Crypticon, Minnesota and.

Speaker A (03:14):
Was it Minnesota?

Speaker C (03:15):
Yeah, Minnesota, last September.
And we had the pleasure of meeting Jameson
Newlander, who was, my gosh, Alan Frog.

Speaker B (03:24):
Oh, yeah.
Actually, speaking of that.

Speaker A (03:27):
Oh, yeah, you're wearing your shirt.

Speaker C (03:34):
Well, when we were at Crypticon the first day, I was having some issues with the
elevator.
Couldn't get the button to light up.
And this young kid was like, if you keephitting or if you hit it, it'll come.
And I'm like, if it doesn't light up, it's notcoming.
And this other guy that was standing by theelevator was like, oh, you've got to hit it in
this corner, whatever.
Well, we get up into our room and Jeremy waslike, that was Jameson Newlander.

(03:58):
I'm like, no way.

Speaker A (03:59):
And.

Speaker C (04:00):
And. Cause, you know, I didn't recognize him because I hadn't seen him in so
many years, you know, from the Lost Boys.
And we went to his booth, got his autographand have kind of become Instagram buddies with
him, chat with him and stuff.
And so, yeah, he came on and we ended up doing
what was it almost like a three or four hourrecording with him.

Speaker B (04:22):
Three hours.

Speaker A (04:23):
Holy man.

Speaker C (04:24):
Yeah. And from that we had messaged G Tom Mack, who is the singer and songwriter
of Cry Little Sister.

Speaker A (04:31):
Cry Little Sister?

Speaker C (04:33):
Yeah, the theme song for the movie.
And we asked him for rights to play Cry LittleSister during Jameson's episode.
And we ended up having him on as well.
So it was kind of fun.
And actually now G Tom is going to be comingto Crypticon.
It's in the works.
It hasn't been finalized yet, but he's going
to be at, hopefully be at Crypticon, Minnesotaas well, in September, which we're going to.

(04:58):
So now we're, if that happens, will be reallycool because now we'll get to meet him in
person as well.

Speaker A (05:03):
I love it, you know, and again, my spooky friends Tracy and Jamie have not only
great guests, but great content.
And I love supporting them.
We love supporting each other because we'rethe same but a little different and everything
like that.
We try to bring as many fun guests on andlearn as much as, you know, we can about each
other as well as the guests.

(05:24):
And it's always strange to me, before we get
into the topic, I won't go too off on atangent, but it's always strange to me.
So I had a young lady on.
She's 26.
Her name is temporarily.
I can't think of her first name.
I'm sorry.
But she's 26, and she's been like, loves the
paranormal because that usually, you know, youhave older guests and everything like that,

(05:47):
right?
But she, like, grew up in a haunted house thatshe had to get.
She had to leave because it traumatized her asa kid.
You know what I mean?And, you know, there's just so many different
stories, right, like out there that.
That just shock you every day.
To me, it's always new.
Having a new story or a new guest on that justhas a totally different view.

(06:08):
You know what I mean?
It's not the same old, same old.
It's like, oh, you know, I did this.
And you're like, well, why is every guestsaying that?
It's like, everybody's different.
That's pretty cool, right?

Speaker C (06:16):
Yeah, definitely.

Speaker A (06:18):
Yeah. And I think that's something that I enjoy, too, meeting all these different
people.
So without further ado, one thing, you guys,just before we get in, because they're kind of
similar cases, this is not a pair paranormalcase per se, but it has, like, some paranormal
vibes to it at first,
you know, maybe, you know, but you guys did areally interesting story that I thought had

(06:41):
kind of some paranormal vibes, kind of somesimilar things.
That's why I wanted to have you guys on and wekind of talk about this.
You guys did the Spider man of Denver.
Do you just want to just give a brief idea to
my spooky friends of what that was about andhow cool that was?
So I guess not cool for the person, butdefinitely not cool for the one dude.

(07:02):
No.

Speaker C (07:04):
There was a man who had a lot of health issues.
He was kind of like a vagabond.
And he had befriended this man at a music
club, basically.
And years later, he came back into the area
and was looking for a meal, and just a simplemeal.

(07:24):
And the guy had been nice to him before.
And the man wasn't at home because his.
His wife had suffered a stroke and was in the
hospital.
And so he let himself in and just kind ofroamed his house and found this little attic
space and decided that was a good place tolive.
And he stayed there for.

(07:45):
I think it was.
I can't remember if it was weeks or months,
but he would, like, shadow the guy.
It was like a game to him after a while to
thinking he was.

Speaker B (07:53):
There for like 20 years.

Speaker C (07:55):
No, it wasn't.
It felt like it in the story.

Speaker A (07:57):
Yeah, it felt like it.
Right.

Speaker C (07:59):
Anyway,
the husband had caught him one day and hemurdered him.
But they were all perplexed because the housewas locked from the inside.
Nobody kind of knew what had happened.
And when the wife came home, the nurses
started noticing noises, food disappearing,
seeing things, and they literally called thecops because they thought there was ghost

(08:22):
activity.

Speaker A (08:23):
Yeah.

Speaker C (08:24):
And they ended up finding out that this man had been living in his attic space
and.

Speaker B (08:29):
Yeah.

Speaker C (08:29):
Or a little house space.
It was like a coffin attic.

Speaker A (08:34):
And that's really interesting because again,
you know, it starts out as almost likeparanormal, like, why are things moving over
here and why is this disappearing?Or I swear that I put those over there.
Now it's over here.
Yeah. It's a fascinating case.
So, and you mentioned game,
which segue after the topic.
Today we're going to play a fun game where

(08:58):
Jamie, Mr.
Conundrum and Tracy are going to guess storiesthat relate to this.
People living in house with it or true orfalse.
So I'm going to have fun with you guys.
So let's get right into it.
Like I said, this is true crime slash.
Might start a little paranormal.
So you guys just chime in anytime you want.
I'm going to start out with a little historyof this.

(09:18):
And the teaser of this is when you live in anolder home, maybe you want to check out some
things in the home to make sure.
Because in today's modern home, you couldn't.
You couldn't do this.
There's no way, unless you designed it thatway.
So again, this is fascinating.
So this is the infamous case of Daniel

(09:40):
laplant.
And this is in Massachusetts,
Townsend, Massachusetts. So I'm going to talka little bit briefly about laplande, kind of
give you a little history of maybe why heacted the way he did.
I don't know.
I mean, you guys judges.
LaPlante was married, excuse Mary was born onMay 15, 1970 in Townsend, Massachusetts.

(10:03):
His parents divorced when he was young and hismother became, well, obviously a single
parent.
She later remarried and two more sons.
While growing up in Townsend, LaPlante claimedto have been.
And by the way, folks and kiddies out there,moms and dads who may be listening to this,
you may want to pause it because going to getinto some weird stuff that maybe the kids

(10:26):
should not hear.
So if you're driving and you're listening tothis and you might want to turn it down.
So laplant claimed to have Been sexually andpsychologically abused by many adults in his
life, including his father,
stepfather,
psychiatrist.
So allegedly, laplant's father was responsible
for majority of the abuse.

(10:48):
Okay, so we're not starting off great, right,folks.
LaPlante attended elementary school inTownsend and went to attend St. Bernardo High
School in Fitchburg.
Which is funny.
There's a Fitchburg here in Wisconsin.
I looked at it first.
I'm like, wait a minute.
LaPlante played football, ran track.
So here we go, folks.
This is where it gets a little confusing.
He's.

(11:08):
He's sexually, psychologically abused, but heplayed football, he ran track, but he
struggled in school.
He was diagnosed with dyslexia at an earlyage.
He also struggled with learning disabilitiesand attention deficit deficit disorder.
What we're building here, right?It's a case for why is this guy did what he
did, right?
So there's nothing.

(11:28):
I don't know.
You guys see, it's pretty much kids, right?This happens, right?
Unfortunately, disabilities and psychological.
So there's nothing where you're like, red
flag, right?I mean, when I read that, I was like, yeah,
unfortunate, but people go through it, right?

Speaker C (11:44):
Right.

Speaker A (11:45):
Yeah. So there's nothing.
There's nothing to me where I go, oh, he was
locked in a basement, and I don't know, youknow, whatever, Beaten every day.
So some of his classmates, I'll describe himas creepy, as weird.
Well, my classmates called me weird, so.
But he was generally considered a loner byboth fellow students and teachers.

(12:05):
The opinion among the residents in theneighborhood was laplant was strange and
disturbed.
Okay, So I don't really like that when people
put labels on somebody, because I know a lotof weird people, and they're gray people.
They. They wouldn't, you know, hurt anybody.
So as a teenager, he was going to a
psychiatrist and was.

(12:26):
Diagnosed him with hyperactivity disorder
because of his abnormal behavior, hisappearance, and his lack of hygiene.
So, again,
red flags.
But you know how many kids are like this,
Right?

Speaker C (12:37):
Right.

Speaker A (12:38):
In October of 1987, after the Bowen family invasion, LaPlante was living with his
mother and stepfather while being out on bail.
So one of the things I'm going to flash
forward here is there was a home invasion andeverything.
And the reason I'm saying that is because thetimeline is kind of weird here, because the
way they did it was they kind of set it upwhen I was reading.

(13:01):
Like, he's having a lot of trouble.
Oh, by the way.
And I'm like, I think I kind of got ahead ofmyself there.
He did during this time before all thishappened,
he did commit several burglaries in theneighborhood where he obtained money and guns.
So again,
this is all based upon true crime, which wewill get to.

(13:23):
But as you see, he was not a very.
He was kind of an unstable environment with
his family and you know, he had some otherthings happening to him.
But again,
I don't see where this is going.
You know what I mean?
Did you guys.
I mean again, is there anything where you guyssee where I'm missing something?

(13:45):
Because again, it just sounds like he's just aconfused kid just going through some phases or
whatever.

Speaker C (13:50):
Well, when I was doing some research on this because I was familiar with
the case but I couldn't remember much aboutit.
So when I was going through and researching onthis, I actually found a guy who.
I haven't been able to actually find the bookbut it has a title, a cover and everything.
But there is a author who went in and heinterviewed like 50 some people that are.

(14:17):
Were knew him.
You know, so many degrees of separation, you
know, whatever.
And supposedly the abuse allegations were
false.
I don't know for sure if that is true or not.
But they were saying that that was his way of
trying to lessen his charges.

Speaker A (14:35):
Yeah, sure.

Speaker C (14:36):
But whether or not, I mean he's the only one that knows for sure if that is true
or false.
But you know his childhood sounds like.
Like with the school and stuff like that.
A lot of us went through that stuff.

Speaker A (14:51):
Yeah.

Speaker C (14:52):
We all turn out to do the things that he.

Speaker A (14:55):
Yeah, yeah, he did.
Yeah.

Speaker B (14:56):
Well, wasn't there even something about him actually being bullied?
Wasn't it?You know, some are saying that he actually
grew up really normal in a. Yeah, reallynormal.

Speaker C (15:08):
But he was bullied in school quite, quite a bit.
Yeah.

Speaker A (15:11):
But yeah,
I guess what's interesting about this case,
which we'll get to here in a second.
It's just.
It seems like.
Okay.
I don't know how it escalated so much.
So getting back to.
So LaPlante would also burglarize neighboringfamily the Gustavins.
Which is funny.
I think that's in Grumpy year Old Men where he
was still valu and knickknack.

(15:33):
Now this led.
This case is based on a true crime case about.
Let me go back here so you don't confuseanybody.
In October of 1987 there was a familyinvasion, the Bowens and stuff.
And now I'll get into the details of that.
So I'm sorry I skipped a little ahead to makeit A little confusing and everything, but

(15:56):
let's get into the details of the case now.
So we know a little bit about, you know,Laplante and everything like that, what he's
going through.
So this word starts out very strange, little
paranormal.
The. For months, Frank Bowen's daughterscomplained of strange noises and odd,
happy, odd happenings in their Pepperio,

(16:17):
Massachusetts, home.
Frank was sure it was just their imaginations.
Okay, so what was happening?There is a documentary on hbo, by the way.
You can watch.
It's really creepy.
They have the 9:1 and everything like that.
So imagine you're just sitting there and nowthis is kind of think in your mind, people.
This is one of those older Victorian homes yousee in the Midwest versus this huge home.

(16:42):
You know, you're like, I always drive by thosehomes.
I think they're beautiful.
And then my first second thought is, man,
would that cost a lot to heat.

Speaker B (16:50):
And surely it's haunted.

Speaker A (16:52):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And here's the thing.
And not to spoil anything, but in these homes,they couldn't.
In the modern homes, with way things are wiredand stuff, it's easier to get the things and.
And, you know, so you have an electrician comein.
They can go into your home.
And.
Okay, not necessarily in these homes.

(17:12):
So you had to have these spaces between each
room.
So. And we'll get to that to kind of figure
out, you know, so if the person's like, oh,why is this light not working?
They would have to kind of like, go in thesespaces and try to figure it out.
And it's kind of a pain.
So again,
he was.
The father was like, you know, whatever and
everything like that.
Because they would hear, like, it would sound

(17:33):
like someone moving, right?It would sound like just like scraping and
stuff.
And they'd be like, what is going on?And there were some things missing.
Food and things of that nature.
Also,
there was things in the daughter's roomswhere, like, somebody was in.
I know this sounds gross.
Like, in the drawer and taking out the, you

(17:56):
know, clothes and other delicate.
Whatever you want to.
Yeah, yeah, you get it, right?
You get it.
And so they were like, okay.
But that's.
Again,
if you grow up in a home and you have a sisteror a brother.
Come on.
They're always, like, messing around with you
or doing something, especially you have asister,
where they're like, hey, can I borrow yourdress?

(18:18):
Or, hey, can I borrow this?Or whatever.
And they go in your closet, and you're like,hey, you know, where's.
Where's my, you know, blouse?
Or whatever.
The father was like, come on, you know, what'sgoing on here?
You guys are fine.
Here's where it just went really crazy.
One night In December of 1986,

(18:38):
okay, the intruder Laplante took the entirefather family hostage and he was a suspect.
This is the craziest thing, how things havechanged.
He was a suspect at the time and he wasreleased on bail and he had come back to the
house and got in somehow and took the entirefamily hostage.

(19:00):
And the hostage situation at the Bowen housewas, it was just a few minutes past 6pm on,
like I said, December 8, 1986, when the policestarted to.
When the phone at the police station startedto ring.
And at the time, the Police Department in 1986was only 10 officers serving roughly 10,000

(19:22):
residents of the village.
You know, in Massachusetts, the most common
cause were domestic disturbances.
Look at intoxication.
So think you're small town, right?
I suddenly get a call about a hostagesituation and you're like, how do you, how do
you react to that as a small town cop?
What, what do we do?So this was really rare.

(19:45):
So when the dispatcher picked up the phone,says she never expected the serious events
that would unfold from that very first call.
The caller told the dispatcher that a neighborjust ran to their house screaming for help,
saying that her family was being held hostage.
How she got out, I don't know the details on
that, but she is, I guess escaped through awindow.

(20:07):
And how she got away from this and probablymore details.
I like to read the book like Tammy was talkingabout, Tracy was talking about came, you know,
they're unharmed and everything.
And he came in, said the father and sister andfriend were still trapped next door with the
kidnapper.
Now at this time, again,
we know it's Laplande, but they did not knowthat.

(20:28):
They just thought it was,
oh my God, what do we do?
There's a hostage situation.
And like I said, these are just regular oldcops.
The Pepperell PD and the Massachusetts StatePolice responded to 93 Lawrence street where
the family was.
And it spoke with the neighbors, called in the
report and the 14 year old Tina Bowen.

(20:51):
Now obviously Tina was visually upset andcrying as she told the officer what happened.
She explained that when she and her father,Frank Bowen and her sister Karen and Fred
Kathleen, walked inside their home around 5:30that night, the house wasn't at all the way
they left it.
And here's what I quote.
Retired Pepperoll Police Lt. Thomas Lane, who

(21:14):
was on the scene that night, here's thisquote, they had arrived home to find that the
radios were blaring in the house.
All the lights were on.
The TVs were on all of them and blaring with
sound.
That's what he said.
You know what happened when they came home?
They were alarmed by it all.
Frank Baldwin started walking from room to
room trying to figure out what was going on.

(21:35):
He noticed that someone had used the toilet intheir basement and several items were out of
place.
Moving into the front of the house, Frank
opened a closet and a shocking sight.
He locked eyes with the intruder wielding ahatchet in one hand and a steel wrench in the
other.

Speaker C (21:55):
Yikes.

Speaker A (21:55):
So imagine you're like coming home.
You're just like, hey, honey, what's that
noise?I don't know.
Let's open the door.

Speaker C (22:01):
No, thank you.
Shut the door.

Speaker A (22:04):
Shut it.
Now this is just a weird thing that I'm justgoing to mention and I don't know.
Okay,
I'll just read it.
The man was wearing a furry coat and he had
his face painted with hair sticking straightup and spikes.

Speaker B (22:22):
Yeah, there's a lot of different.
Yeah, a lot of different stories on that.
Some say that he was wearing that guy's wife'swedding dress.

Speaker A (22:31):
Yeah, yeah, right.
That's what I was going to say too.
I've heard he was wearing dress.
He was.
I've heard he had a gun, then he had a knife.
And then.

Speaker C (22:40):
Okay, I guess, Yeah, I heard.

Speaker A (22:43):
Yeah. My research just says this, so definitely, yeah.
The intruder calmly instructed Frank to getthe girls and go into the bedroom.
Frank yelled for the girls and stayed betweenthem and the man as they were ushered down the
hallway.
Before the intruder could follow the Bowensinto the bedroom, Frank slammed the door and
wedged the shut.
Good for you, Frank.

(23:03):
Smart.
Thank you.
He was trying to make a plan.
Trying to figure out how to save his childrenand himself or the intruder's unknown plot.
Well, I think at, you know what it's plotted.
Trying to calm the girls down when Tina becameso upset she hoisted open the bedroom window.
This is where it happens.
And jumped out of it.
Spider Father's desperate pleas against it.

(23:25):
So this is how that happened.
You know, like I was saying, I wasn't sure how
this happened again, but now I remember.
I put this in here.
So she just went, yikes.
You know it's a fight or flight, right?It's fight or flight.

Speaker C (23:37):
She did what we always talk about, John, but she was smart.
She opened a window.
Otherwise there would have been a Tina sized
hole in the side of the house.

Speaker A (23:48):
Yes. It's like I learned he's less running through.
Oh,
that high risk.
Yeah. But brave escape is what broughtLieutenant Thomas Lane and the rest of the
responding officers to the scene.
And it's likely what saved all their lives
that night.
So again, think about that.
Maybe sometimes it's good to fly out of thehouse.

(24:09):
So sitting next door at the neighbor's housewith the police now, Tina gave them two phone
numbers for her house.
And the officers tried the boat.
But the calls just kept ringing and ringing
and ringing without answer.
So the officers began to surround the ball on
house, planning their next step to rescue thehostages inside.
And I'll stop there because remember, theseare small town cops.

(24:30):
These are not hostage negotiator.
Right, Right.
So moments later, the officers noticed theflicker of light and movement in a second
floor bedroom.
They could make out several silhouettes in the
room.
And then Frank Bowen father stepped up to the
window hollering for police to come help.
Frank told officers that the intruder waseither somewhere else in the house.

(24:52):
Fred fled the scene.
He lowered the two girls out the window to the
officers waiting below and then jumped onhimself.
The family reunited with Tina at theneighbor's house.
As police began to file into the Bowen home,Lt. Lane joined the other law enforcement
officials as they methodically searched eachroom for the intruder.
Search repeatedly of the home, the woods, theyards, the roads, he continued.

(25:17):
So they searched everywhere.
There was no sign of the intruder whatsoever.
Whoever kidnapped and terrorized the balancethat night had managed to escape right under
the noses of law enforcement.
Okay. The sliding door leading to the backdeck was slightly ajar.
And police recovered a hatchet and a wrench onthe ground near the porch stacks.
Police cleared the house, but the Bowens wereinvite advised to vacate their home

(25:41):
investigation as they began theirinvestigation.
Unfortunately, an investigation didn't havemuch to go on.
Frank told the police the intruder was wearinggloves, but he thought one of the fingertips
may have been missing.
Investigators collected two telephones.
They had been ripped from the wall inside thehouse and planned to check them for possible
prints.
State police brought in tracking dogs in hope

(26:03):
of trailing the suspect's escape route.
But the dog was unable to identify a trail.
It's possible, they say the dog was thrown off
though, because the police had given the dogthe wrench and hatched detect the scent which
I've never heard that one.
I thought maybe you give clothing,
but I guess there was no clothing.
And he said the cat.

(26:23):
This is another fun tidbit, folks.
So, Frank Bowen.
You said the hatchet was his and he usuallykept it on his nightstand.

Speaker C (26:32):
I heard that too.
I was like, oh, I guess, you know, gotta
protect yourself somehow.

Speaker A (26:40):
I just thought you just got a hatchet there,
you know,
like.
Yeah, you're throwing it at people or
something.
Like, you know, that'd be scary, right?
If you're like, yeah, I'm not feeling so good.
It's only a hatchet.
Boo.
Boo.
Boo. Boo. Boo. Right,
Sorry.
Yeah.

Speaker C (26:55):
Always make sure you make yourself present.
Your presence known going into.

Speaker A (26:58):
Dad.
Yeah. Dad, don't throw that.
Frank Baldwin and the girls all described insale as being anywhere.
This is hilarious.
From 17 to 26 years old.
Okay, that's a wide.
It's a wide thing.

Speaker C (27:14):
Yeah.

Speaker A (27:14):
Maybe with blonde hair, maybe with dark hair.
Well, let's go back.
Remember, if it's true, this is my research.
Could be other different.
His hair was spiked.
I imagine it was colored.
Didn't they say it was black?
You know, I don't.

Speaker C (27:27):
Yeah.

Speaker A (27:28):
How do you get blonde? I'm not, I'm not.
And maybe he had a mustache.
Maybe not.
Come on.
This is.
This is why alien didn't.
Did he.
Did he have like three arms,
a couple extra legs?

Speaker C (27:44):
Well, if I remember correctly, in one of the stories that I heard, and I believe
it was the interview from that officer, he wassaying that he had like face paint or
something.

Speaker A (27:55):
Correct.
I'll get into that.
Yep.

Speaker C (27:56):
Okay. Yep.

Speaker A (27:57):
So the face paint and spiked hairstyle obscured any.

Speaker C (28:01):
There you go.

Speaker A (28:02):
Fine features of his true identity.

Speaker C (28:04):
Yes.

Speaker A (28:05):
Smart.
So this was interesting.
We're seeing a pattern here, right?
This was pre planned.
This was premeditated.
Like, you know, he knew things.
So that's why again, you know, how would he
know that?How would he know where the hatchet is?
How.
How would he know other things in the house?
Right.
The family didn't know a motive to carry out

(28:27):
these terrifying acts against them.
But Frank had a feeling whoever broke in and
held them hostage had actually been in theirhome before.
So what's interesting about this case, I waswatching a little bit of the documentary too,
so I don't know what you call it, but inbetween the walls there's a name for it.
I'm blanking on the name, but in between thewalls, like I was wet wall or something.

(28:49):
Yeah, yeah.
Is that what.
Yeah, yeah.
And supposedly LaPlante would.
Was in the home for.
They don't know how long, but he would get in
between there.
And he had a crush, I believe, on Tina.
And she was like Nah, you weird and cre.
I don't want to date you.

(29:09):
So his whole.
They believe his whole motive behind this.
And this is where, again,
I don't know.
It's kind of weird.
So when he was at this one school, supposedly
he transferred to this other school that wasclose to him, and he met Tina or one of the
other daughters, and he was kind of smittenwith them and kind of asked them out, and they

(29:30):
said no.
He did not take it very well.
He basically stalked them.
He went to,
you know, their house, got in their house,and, like I said, was supposedly going through
their clothes,
was in there a while.
People say that he could have been in thereweeks,
days, but not months or anything.

(29:50):
It was a. It was a short period.
Period of time.
And again, remember, he had a single mom, and
his mom didn't really care whether he came orwent.
Nobody really cared about this guy.
So there was not really anything in here that
he.
Like, somebody would have cared.
Right.
Like, hey, you know.

Speaker C (30:09):
Right.

Speaker A (30:10):
Where is he? You know, and everything like that.
Where is Daniel?Like, nobody really cared.
And so he was able to do this and get awaywith it.
Now, was he caught?
And yes, he eventually was.
Obviously,
the biggest thing about this is.
Well, the good news is no one died.
At first I thought somebody died.
I thought he murdered the entire family,

(30:31):
but that wasn't true.
That's something else that I'm maybe getting
confused with.

Speaker C (30:35):
But he actually did murder a family.
But not that family.

Speaker A (30:40):
Yeah, not that family.
And that's one of.
One of the things I wanted to get into here.
This is just kind of the beginning of him and
what.
What he did and everything.
And I think one of the main things to rememberabout this is that,
you know,
I just don't know if this is something wrongwith us not paying attention to these kids and

(31:05):
everything like that.
And before I get into, like, the other family,
I'm not going to cover too much on that, butdo you guys have anything you wanted to bring
up about this first case with him?

Speaker C (31:16):
The one thing that I had heard, and like I said, there's so many different
variations of this story.
I had heard that he or had read that heactually called Tina.
He had gotten her phone number either out ofthe phone book or for.
From somebody that knew her.
And they had been talking on the phone, and he

(31:36):
portrayed himself as a blonde football star.

Speaker A (31:40):
Yeah.

Speaker C (31:40):
And then he showed up at her door because they had.
They talked on the phone for a while, and thenhe showed up at her door and to Go out on a
date.
But he wasn't who he said he was.
But she said that she would still be or she
still was nice and went out with him.
But his behavior on the date was very odd and

(32:02):
strange and he was asking her questions, veryinappropriate questions about their mother's
recent death story.

Speaker A (32:09):
Yeah.

Speaker C (32:10):
In regards to, you know, did she suffer?
What did she look like when she died.
But again, I don't know because there's so
many different variations.

Speaker A (32:20):
Right.

Speaker C (32:20):
I don't know which one.
Which one is true.

Speaker A (32:23):
Yeah, so.
So that's the one I heard.
But I didn't get really.
I didn't want to get really too much into it
because I'm like, you know, again,
this is.
It's a weird case all around and everything
like that.

Speaker C (32:36):
Mm.

Speaker A (32:37):
Because he said, being that she accepted a date, I kind of.
I kind of heard.
That's the story I heard.
But I'm like, why would you.
Right?

Speaker C (32:47):
I mean, why would you still go.

Speaker A (32:50):
Yeah, I mean, yeah, yeah, I mean,
I get it.
It's in the 80s,
so. But wouldn't you go,
maybe I'm just being over analyzing thingshere.
Wouldn't you go and see him and go, you'reyou.
You're not a football player, you're justdifferent?
Maybe.
Yeah, maybe.
Yeah.
You know, I guess he looked like one.

(33:10):
Right.
And probably he did have blonde hair because
again, in the case is.
Oh, that blonde.
She had blonde hair.
So that makes sense.
Right?
So this case is just so.
It's so weird to me and everything like that,but bummer time, folks.
I'm just going to cover this a little bit.
So, yes, this case, everyone survived,
everybody was good.

(33:31):
Okay,
well, remember the Gustavans?Yeah, not so much.
So a year later, Daniel or laplando.
Com was murdered that entire family.
So, yeah.
And again, I'm not going to get too much into
it,
but why do you think he did it?
Let's start there.
Any theories of why you think did this?

(33:55):
Give him a taste.
And then he decided because, remember, he
robbed the Gustav and he'd been robbing them,but why not just kill them right away?
What thoughts on this?It's just interesting to me.

Speaker C (34:05):
I think it was kind of escalation and what is the word?
In.
What is the word I'm looking for?In.
In complex?In.
I can't think of it.
He basically thought he was untouchable
because he had been committing all of theserobberies, doing all of these things.
He lived in these people's home.

Speaker A (34:27):
Right.

Speaker C (34:27):
You know, and period.
Yeah, yeah.
And I think he just thought.
Because when they.
Well, you'll probably get into that, but.
Yeah, I just.
I cannot say the word.
It's on the tip of my tongue,
but it's like.
I think it was just an escalation, and I just
truly think that he did not think he was goingto pay for anything.
Mommy bailed him out of jail.

(34:49):
You know, he just got slaps on the wrist, andhe was one of those kids that just kept going
down, pushing the limit.

Speaker A (34:57):
Yeah. Jamie, do you have any.
Jeremy, thoughts on it?

Speaker B (35:00):
I don't know a lot about the story, I guess.
Just Tracy knows most of the information onit.

Speaker A (35:06):
Yeah.

Speaker B (35:06):
I've just kind of skimmed the top layer of it and remember very little.

Speaker A (35:13):
Thank you.
Thank you.

Speaker B (35:15):
I'm just emotional support.

Speaker A (35:19):
So the only thing I can.
I can say is let's go back to our old friend
Ed Gein.
Okay.
You know,
when he started out,
he did not go full bore in the stuff.
He just felt slowly escalated and.
Yeah, I can't.
Tracy, I can't think of the term inferior.
Is that what you're looking for?

Speaker C (35:40):
Something close to that inferiority complex or something like that?

Speaker A (35:44):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Anyway, so one of the.
One of the biggest things is they.
They escalate.
And that's what a lot of serial killers do.
They'll, like, break into a woman's home, andthen they'll take her clothes and they'll wear
their clothes,
and then they'll break in again and they'll,like, touch the woman or.
You know what I mean?Or, like, try to kiss her or something while

(36:06):
she's sleeping.
And then it just keeps going.
And I'm like, okay, that's really interesting.
And again, I don't have an answer.
I'm not obviously a psychiatrist orpsychologist, but I just think that it's just
interesting that he went from hostagesituation to full murder.
And why the Gustavins?I don't know.

(36:27):
Tracy, Anything in your research of why hewould have.

Speaker C (36:32):
Only thing I can speculate is maybe because he was one that followed patterns.
He would watch these people, know theirschedule,
and he would try to get in and get out.
And the things he would steal were very
strange.
A cable box.
I think there was a telephone.
You know, just really odd.
Odd things, too.

(36:53):
But honestly, I.
I speculate that she came home at a time hedidn't expect.

Speaker A (37:00):
Yes. Yeah. Yeah.
And that.
And that, again, what's interesting about thisstory.
I really want to read the book and everythinglike that and figure out a little bit more
about.
Because it's just like the.
The Spider man case in Denver.
That's more clear cut.
Right?
You know what I mean?That was a little more.
This one was.
He was kid.
Sure, he had some mental problems, he was

(37:21):
going through some things, but it's like,okay, I'm a scare the crap out of you and take
you hostage and then I'm going to run, butthen now I'm going to murder.
I'm going to go.
I mean, that's like.

Speaker C (37:31):
Yeah, and you're right.
And it may not have been a surprise eitherthough, because I do remember that one of the
things that linked him to this was that he.
They found pages from a porn magazine at thecrime scene and they were torn out of a
magazine in his home.

(37:52):
So maybe it was premeditated in that aspectbecause why would he bring those pages with
him?

Speaker B (37:58):
Yeah, well, I mean, on the first one, how can you really say that that wasn't
his ultimate goal?You know, I mean, if he wouldn't have gone
away,
maybe that would have been the ultimate.

Speaker C (38:09):
That's true.
That is true too.

Speaker A (38:11):
Yeah. Yeah, that's.
That's so scary.

Speaker C (38:14):
It is very scary.

Speaker A (38:15):
So what happened to good old Daniel?
He is now serving three life sentences for themurders of the gustavans.
And on March 22, 2017,
he sentence hearing, resentencing hearing.
Excuse me.
Was held in Middlesex Superior Court inWoodbourne, Massachusetts.

(38:38):
Laplande, he asked for a reduction.
Reduction in his sentence.
Come on, guys.
I'm good now.

Speaker C (38:44):
Yeah.

Speaker A (38:44):
No more going through people's stuff and breaking into homes.
And at his hearing, it was mentioned thatduring his first appeal, previous court
rulings were cited saying that juvenilesconvicted of murder should be given a
meaningful opportunity to reengage withsociety.
I agree.
I agree.
Sometimes we're stupid.

(39:05):
We do dumb mistakes.
This is a really dumb mistake.
Yeah, I'm not sure about this one,
but there was also a new law allowing juvenileconvicted of murder with extreme cruelty and
atrocity to ask for parole after they've beenbehind bars for a minimum of 30 years.
Okay, so I kind of get what you're coming on.

(39:29):
That would.
Yeah, you want to get.
You don't want to destroy the kid's life,
but you want to kind of balance it.
I don't know, man.
It's a tough one.
The judge,
Firm Lapland, sentences of three consecutiveterms of life imprisonment with though
possibly parole after 45 years.
After a forensic psychiatrist evaluatedLaPlante and found that he was not remorseful

(39:55):
for his crime.
Laplande is currently held at MCI Norfolk.
Between 1990 and 2000, LaPlante was held in
custody of the Federal Bureau of Prisons,
adx, Florence.
So, okay, where can you see this to get a
little more idea of if you're like, man, Iwant to know more about this.
Like I said, there is a documentary on hbo,Max, but I've never seen you guys ever see

(40:19):
this.
Investigation Discoveries, your worstnightmare series.

Speaker C (40:23):
Now tonight I'm going to have to check it out, though.
Jeremy loves when I do stories like that.

Speaker A (40:29):
Jeremy. Jeremy.
By the way, I'm sorry for calling you Jamie.

Speaker B (40:33):
My aunt calls me Germ all the time.

Speaker A (40:39):
So it says here.
So if you guys want to.
Want to check it out.
A Laplante was featured also in season one of
Lifetime channels.
There's still a Lifetime channel.
Okay.
It says frogging.
Frogging.
Okay, I gotta spell this for you, folks.
P, H, R,
O,
G G, I, N, G. Is that frogging Frog?No.

Speaker C (41:03):
Sure it should be, because P ph is the.
The F sound.

Speaker A (41:12):
It's called frogging Hider in My House series.
Someone thought about this Footsteps in Attic,which documented Laplande's crimes committed
prior to the Gustav murders.
Okay, but you're probably better off going toInvestigation discovery because on September
2024,
they released the season one episode one ofReal Murders on Elm street titled Killer in

(41:36):
the Walls.
So there's all these different channels
nowadays.
They keep.

Speaker C (41:39):
There's a lot straight.

Speaker B (41:41):
I forgot about the Elm street angle.

Speaker C (41:44):
Yes.

Speaker A (41:44):
Yes. So let's do something.

Speaker B (41:48):
Oh, yeah.

Speaker A (41:49):
That was something that I thought was this weird connection.
Okay. Everybody knows Freddie Nightmare on ElmStreet.
Well, this is on Elm Street.
And like I said, the, The.
The daughters were having dreams and hearingthings,
but I'm like, that's where it kind of ends.
Because it didn't.
Wasn't like they were like, you know, I'vebeen sucked into that famous scene.

(42:13):
I think it's with.
Oh, I'm trying to think the actor right now.
Just. I can't remember if it's a man or woman.
I don't know.
It was Johnny Depp or the actress.
This through the bed sinks and then just
blood.

Speaker C (42:27):
Oh, yeah.

Speaker A (42:28):
Like this tunnel, like this thing.
Like you.
You like, got a fire hydrant where.
You know where they open the fire hydrant
sometimes.
And you see,
this is just crazy.
The bed sitting.
And it was nothing like that.
It wasn't like he was like coming in.
At least we don't know he wasn't like, hewasn't coming in and staring at him.

(42:51):
And. And you know, he had, like, didn't.

Speaker C (42:53):
Didn't he leave messages, like on the wall and ketchup or something?

Speaker A (42:57):
Yes, that was another thing too.
He would leave some weird messages and stuff.
Yeah, it's just all these different things.
Now this is interesting.
One of the things, too, is supposedly there is
a called, like I said, frogging Hider in myhouse series.
Footsteps in the Attic, Boys in the Way in theWalls.
And like I said, it's a fictional storyloosely based on the plan.

(43:21):
It says here, though, the film is directed byConstant Zimme and it stars Ryan Michelle Bath
and Jonathan.
Jonathan Whitesell. And I'm looking this upright now.
I'm gonna look this up right now.
So, yeah, she's a. It looks like she's a
director and she's done this series kind ofabout the story.

(43:42):
So I would.
I would go probably look at the Discovery
Investigation.
Look at that a little bit.
I think that sounds a little bit better.
There's good books out there.
There's a lot of true crime, if you want to
know a little bit better.
But I just thought this was just an
interesting story to kind of give just ageneral go over because again,
it's just everything you hear is different andstrange.

Speaker C (44:06):
Yes. And it's got the paranormal vibes.

Speaker A (44:08):
Yeah, it's got a paranormal vibe.
Yeah.

Speaker C (44:11):
The mental illness.

Speaker A (44:13):
It's a mental illness.
It's kind of got everything.
I love it.

Speaker C (44:15):
It does.

Speaker A (44:18):
Anyway, so any final thoughts on this story before we play our fun little game?

Speaker B (44:22):
I don't think so.

Speaker C (44:24):
No, I think.
I think we pretty covered it all.
Yeah.

Speaker A (44:27):
Yeah. And like I said, we're not a true crime pr.
True crime podcast.
We don't claim to be one.
So that's why I didn't go too much into it andkind of skipped around a little bit.
But there's plenty of stories out there.
It's an interesting story.
And I would.
I would say check your closets tonight.
So know some crazy person with a hatchet and awrench and spiked hair.

(44:49):
By the way,
guys, that's your new nightmare.
That's your new nightmare.

Speaker C (44:53):
I was gonna say new nightmare unlocked.

Speaker B (44:56):
That'd only be a threat.
John's house, probably because we don't have a
wet wall.
So, John, if you fit in our wall.
And.

Speaker C (45:04):
Yeah, we don't really have much for closets either.

Speaker A (45:07):
No. All right.
There goes my Halloween prank.

Speaker C (45:10):
Yeah, you can hide in our maze.

Speaker B (45:13):
We used to have a fireplace before I tore it out.
You could have cried.

Speaker C (45:17):
Could have crawled behind that.

Speaker A (45:20):
Aha.
You guys Gave it away now.
So, anyway, interesting case.
Go check it out.
Check the closets out.
I'm sure everybody's gonna be fine.
But, you know, don't leave a hatchet, by theway, on your nightstand.
That's a little weird, but okay.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
But safety, right?
We all see.
All right, guys.
Now this is going to be super fun.

(45:41):
Super fun.
So I'm going to read a headline,
okay?These.
Whether true or false.
You guys figure it out.
Okay, so this is.
We're going to start with the first one.
You guys ready?A University of North Carolina student found a
man living in her closet and wearing herclothes.
True or false?

Speaker C (46:01):
I'm going to say true.

Speaker A (46:03):
Ding, ding, ding.
I'm sorry.
I don't have a thing here.
Okay, really quickly.
When Maddie, a junior, did reverse.
Gosh, I can't talk today.
I'm a mushmouth.
A junior at the University of North Carolina,Greensboro.
Realized that the pieces of her wardrobemysteriously vanished.
Vanished.
She and her roommates blamed it on a ghost.

(46:25):
I love that.

Speaker C (46:27):
I do.

Speaker A (46:27):
She found handprints left on the bathroom wall.
And on February 2nd.
This is not long ago, folks.
2019.
She discovered a man living in her closet andwearing her clothes.

Speaker C (46:40):
Excuse me, sir.
You have issued.

Speaker A (46:42):
Police identified.
The man is 30 year old.
30?

Speaker C (46:46):
30?

Speaker A (46:47):
Yeah. That's a old dude.
Okay.
I thought it'd be like some.
Her ex boyfriend, right?
Like ex boyfriend.
Lesson.
I don't know.

Speaker C (46:55):
Right.

Speaker A (46:56):
Andrew Swofford.
They talked to him.
Talked to Swofford.
As she waited for her boyfriend, authorities
to arrive.
He continued to try on her clothes and
commented how she was really pretty.
Yes.

Speaker C (47:11):
Ew.

Speaker A (47:12):
Wofford was arrested and put under a $26,000 bond.
He finds us.
He faces 14 felony charges.
Larceny and identity theft.
14.
Wigan. 14. From wearing clothes and living ina closet.
Holy crap.

Speaker C (47:29):
You know, I mean, I know you don't do a lot of true crime.
But the ones that do the lesser things.
Seem to get more than the people that do the
shitty things.
Or, sorry, crappy things.

Speaker A (47:40):
No, no, no. Swear.
You want.
You can swear, Tracy.
Okay.
All right, next one.
Here we go.
Japanese man finds woman living in hiscupboard.

Speaker C (47:51):
That is true.

Speaker B (47:52):
That's true.

Speaker C (47:53):
Yes.

Speaker A (47:54):
Ding, ding, ding.
That is correct.
Damn it.
I thought I'd get you guys.

Speaker C (47:58):
We actually.
That wasn't part of our story.

Speaker A (48:01):
That's right.

Speaker C (48:02):
Yes. We talked about a few other people living in the walls or living in the
houses.

Speaker A (48:08):
That's right.

Speaker C (48:10):
We got you.

Speaker A (48:11):
You got me.
That's right.
No, no, no. No, I love it.
That's why I remembered it.
I'm like, I think it's finally a.

Speaker B (48:19):
Game we're good at.

Speaker A (48:21):
Next one.
Ready?
Reverse Santa steals from family, wears theirclothes, hides an attic over Christmas.

Speaker B (48:29):
I'm gonna say false.

Speaker C (48:31):
Yeah, I'm gonna go with false.

Speaker A (48:34):
What?
In 2008, on the day after Christmas, a WilkesBear, Pennsylvania woman discovered a man
living in her attic, periodically helpinghimself to her family's food, clothes, and
possessions.
She states,
I quote, when he came down from the attic, hewas wearing my daughter's pants and my

(48:57):
sweatshirt and sneakers.
The man also helped himself to a computer and
an ipod.
He kept. Sorry, I'm laughing.
He kept the list of everything he took.
Tilting it.
Hit tilting it.
Okay.
I don't know.
Unless I'm reading that wrong.
Make it in his Christmas list.
I'm going to say basically, the guy was averseSanta.

(49:18):
He got the sneaky into the house bit.
Right.
But took rather than give to a family.
Wow.

Speaker C (49:27):
Anti.

Speaker A (49:29):
Could you just be.
You guys are just sitting there watching tv,
you're doing whatever, and some dude comeswalking out of your attic with, like, your
daughter's pants and, like, you know, yoursweatshirt and, like,
what?

Speaker C (49:42):
He's like kind of one of those, like your blinky blink, blink, blink.
Am I rubbing your eyes?Really?

Speaker A (49:49):
He's playing like.
He's playing like Candy Crush on your iPad,
man.
I'm on 20th level here.

Speaker C (49:56):
Can I charge this?

Speaker A (49:57):
I need to return.
Yeah.
What is this going on?

Speaker B (50:00):
Okay, power ports in the attic space up there.
We need some power up there.

Speaker A (50:05):
Okay,
so this one you'll probably get.
But I just want to.
I just want to read it.
Career crook hides out in Toys R Us and
Circuit City.
True or false?

Speaker C (50:15):
I'm gonna say true.

Speaker A (50:16):
Yay. Ding, ding, ding.
Yeah.
In fact, they're turning it into a movie.

Speaker C (50:22):
A woman that lived in Walmart for a while too.

Speaker A (50:26):
Yeah.
This.
So Channing Tatum is gonna play this.
It's called the Roofman.
And I'm gonna read this to you guys reallyquick, if you don't mind, because this is like
you're making a movie out of this.
All right, we're kind of running out of Ds,folks.
So this is the probably the greatest storyever told you'll hear in this makings of a

(50:50):
fantastic movie.
Okay?
And it's anti hero.
Seasoned criminal Jeffrey Manchester, AKA
Roofman, was both hated and revered by policewho captured it.
It began in 2005 when Manchester, serving a 45year sentence for robbery, became the first.
First inmate to ever escape the Brown CreekCorrectional Correctional Institution in

(51:14):
Polton, North Carolina.
His method escape, hiding in a laundry truck.
It's in the trailer, by the way, if you want
to watch the trailer.
Excuse me.
Roofman left.
Roofman landed in Charlotte, North Carolina,where he created a new identity.
John.
Well, thank you.
An unassuming churchgoing man who told thecongregation he.
He had a secret government job.

(51:36):
To avoid talking about work,
Manchester struck up a romantic relationshipwith a local woman, giving gifts to her and
her children and even spending holidays withthem.
So that's part of.
In the trailer, So I guess.
Okay.

Speaker C (51:49):
Wow.

Speaker A (51:50):
But Manchester's life was fascinating movie.
It was anything but normal.
In addition to being a criminal on the lam, he
was secretly living inside a local Toys R Us,
fashioning a lair.
I don't know why I see a layer.
But within a cubby hole in the bicycledepartment.
There he subsided.
Baby food. Oh, my God. And rode bikes aroundthe store to keep himself fit.

(52:14):
He also apparently charged, changed employeesschedules just for the fun of it.

Speaker B (52:19):
That might be fun.

Speaker C (52:21):
Yeah. I don't really like Billy.
Let's move him to a shift.

Speaker A (52:28):
Like that guy.
So when Christmas shopping season heated up,Manchester dug his way through the Toys R Us
wall and gained access to an abandoned CircuitCity,
which is super funny.
There are no more Toys R Us or Circuit Cities.

Speaker C (52:43):
No, they're not.
There's not.

Speaker A (52:45):
Where he improved his digs, folks, by building a cubicle from old drywall slack.
He hung up posters and described the room withax and.
And, excuse me, decorated the room with actionfigures while watching pilfered DVDs.
And on a pilfered DVD player, just say stolen,folks.
Why have you seen pilfered?

(53:07):
But a crook can't lay dormant for long.
And Manchester began plotting his next big
score, robbing the Toys R Us he called homefor the last.
Get this.
Six months.
He was there six months, nobody noticed him.

Speaker B (53:22):
After hearing your true story, I still say false.

Speaker A (53:26):
So first,
Roofman robbed a pawn shop to get a gun.
Then he stole a baby monitor cam from the
store so he could better case the joint.
Things took a turn for the worse during his
robbery as two employees escaped undetectedand called the police.
This led to a chase during which Manchesterattempted to evade capture by ducking back

(53:49):
into his cubby.
The pursuing officers, however, saw him and
entered a secret passageway, blowing the lidon his living quarters.
Now, the story doesn't end there, folks.
Manchester managed to escape the cops.
Who is this guy?He escaped.
The cop escaped the prison, escaped the Copsand went of this is ridiculous.

(54:09):
On to torch a dentist office in the middle ofthe night because it was revealed he had
dental work done there a week prior.
And hope.
And hope to destroy the evidence.
The cops were only able to catch Manchesterafter they convinced his girlfriend to set him

(54:32):
up by inviting him over.
He complied.

Speaker C (54:36):
Tatum is starring in this.

Speaker A (54:39):
Channy Tatum.

Speaker C (54:40):
Wow.

Speaker A (54:41):
Aiming to see her one last time before disappearing.
And was promptly arrested.
Manchester has no hard feelings for the woman.
He completely understood her position andencouraged her to pursue her dreams before the
police whisked him back to jail.

Speaker C (54:56):
I have the future headline.

Speaker A (54:57):
Yes.

Speaker C (54:58):
Manchester escapes from jail.
They can't find him anywhere.
Guess what?He built a hidey hole in the wall.

Speaker A (55:04):
So, yes, this is a movie.
Go watch the trailer.
The trailer is out.
So let's do.
Let's do a couple more.
You guys up for a couple more?

Speaker C (55:12):
Of course.

Speaker A (55:13):
Okay. Entrepreneur hides out as aol.
Off at AOL offices for months.

Speaker B (55:20):
True.

Speaker C (55:23):
We're split on this one.

Speaker A (55:25):
Jeremy.
You said true.
Ding, ding, ding, ding.

Speaker C (55:31):
You're rocking it.

Speaker A (55:32):
Oh, yeah, man.
I wish I had a prize for you.
So this one.
I don't want to.
Well,
that was the prize.
Sorry.
So this one.
Okay. We're all gonna date ourselves here.
AOL used to be that annoying.
I just get on the Internet.

(55:53):
And you had to get a disc.
Anyway, so this guy, he won a contest by aol.
Is AOL still around, by the way?

Speaker C (56:01):
I don't think so.

Speaker A (56:03):
Anyway, he had this contest.
They held the contest.
He won.
His name was Simon.
And he was like, great, I won this contest.
Now what do I do?
And they were like, I don't know.
Here's some money.
Do something.
Be an entrepreneur.
Well, that didn't work.
And he ran out of money.
And then what he did was he discovered thathis badge still worked at the AOL office

(56:27):
because he had nowhere to live, I guess.
And he was.
Which.
I don't know why he didn't say what he did
with the prize money, folks.
I don't know.
So he just.
Just went back in.
He went back in.

Speaker B (56:37):
And they probably got free dial up for life.

Speaker A (56:40):
Yeah.
Yeah. And many of the poised now, you'reprobably saying employees be like, hey, Simon,
what's the deal?So many employees did recognize him from the
days,
you know, he spent there during thecompetition and everything, but they just
thought he was supposed to be there and lefthim alone.
So the guy just hung out.

Speaker C (56:58):
Great security.

Speaker A (57:00):
He would.
Yeah, so he would, like, eat everybody'slunches, you know, just Go in the break room.
Okay.
They had a shower there.
So he just shower there.
And then he would, you know, just kind of wash
his clothes, whatever, and just.
I don't know what he did to change clothes oranything.
Didn't really get into that.
But unfortunately, and this is, by the way,
was fairly recent too.

(57:21):
Simon was finally discovered by a security
guard in May of 2012 and booted.
While the badge was taken away, however, hecontinued to drop by the office daily,
where he was granted access to his incubatorroom despite the program expiring.
Yeah. So I don't know.

(57:42):
Kind of good news, right?
It's kind of funny.
Like we don't know if people should be there.
Right?

Speaker C (57:49):
Right.

Speaker A (57:49):
You just kind of go, hey, Bill.
Hey, Jeremy.
Hey, Tracy.
Like, guess he's supposed to be like, Nobody
goes, wait a minute.
The thing went off here.

Speaker B (58:02):
I didn't think the company was still supposed to be there.
I mean, 2012.

Speaker A (58:06):
Geez. Yeah. I don't know, 2012.
Okay,
so next.
Next one last one.
You guys have been great.
Man living above mall restaurant falls throughthe ceiling.
True or false?

Speaker B (58:20):
I think that's true.

Speaker C (58:21):
I'll go with Jeremy because he's, like, nailed all of these.

Speaker A (58:26):
Dang, dang.
You guys.
You guys did really good on this.
No, this a man who living in the rafters abovea yard house.
Does that ring a bell for you guys?Yard house restaurant.
No. Anyway, 16th Street Mayo in Denver blewhis cover in December of 2014 when he fell
through the ceiling into the restaurant.

(58:48):
Police were called and upon arrival saw theman moving through the opening in the wall for
water pipes and the H vac system.
He somehow damaged one of the pipes, causing amassive flood in the yard house and a joined
Sheraton hotel,
then became trapped in the walls.
Firefighters used the chainsaw to extract

(59:09):
strapped him, and he was promptly arrested.
I'm not following this one.
This is all the details I was given.
Oh,
I'm guessing maybe because I've heard storieswhere people, like, tried to, like, break into
like, Taco Bell or something,
and they, like, tried to get through, like,the.

(59:29):
I don't know, like the ceiling vents orsomething.
You know what I mean?I've heard weird stories like that and.
And then they fall through and then the policecome and that's it, you know?
Right.
This guy.
I don't know.
I just think that's just really funny.

Speaker C (59:47):
Yeah. Yeah, it's crazy.

Speaker A (59:48):
I mean, so.
And again, how would you like to be eating
dinner?You know, you're saying, hey, okay, well.

Speaker B (59:56):
I think there is a story out there like that where a guy fell through the false
ceiling and landed on a table and died whilepeople were eating dinner.
Yeah, yeah, I know.
I read it somewhere.
I don't remember where it was or anything, but
it's similar to this story.

Speaker A (01:00:13):
Yeah, yeah.
So this kind of is like.
You just.
Life is crazy, right?
You just don't know what's going to happen.

Speaker B (01:00:20):
People are crazy.

Speaker A (01:00:21):
Yeah, yeah.
I. It's just.
And you know, one of the things too is youguys know things about like squatters.
Just a real quick story here.
I. I had a friend in California and he sublet
his.
This ain't like bad or anything, I guess hesublet to this one guy while he was traveling
overseas and he came back and he said, okay,time to go.
The guy was like, nope, it's fine now.

(01:00:44):
And in California, there's these crazy lawsthat that person can live there.
Like you have to go through this extensivecourt thing to try to get the person out.
My friend spent I don't know how much money onlawyers just to get the guy out.
You just wouldn't leave.
Just would not leave.

Speaker C (01:01:00):
And I heard a story from California as well that these.
Back when Craigslist was big, that thesefriends had rented.
This group of friends had rented thisapartment.
And it was actually pretty reasonable andstuff.
They were living there, you know,

(01:01:22):
got.
We're getting their mail there, but they were
getting mail for somebody else as well.
They just figured it.
The last res or last occupants hadn't changedtheir address.
And this woman showed up one day and was likescreaming irately at them and they were like
calling the cops.
And like, this woman is like, she has a key.

(01:01:42):
She keeps coming in, you know, trying to getin.
Well, here it was, the owner of the apartmentand this other person sublet out the apartment
to them and didn't even have anything to dowith it.
He had found a key or something.
I can't remember how it all happened.
Yeah.
And here they were living in this apartment

(01:02:03):
that this woman owned.
She was just like on an extended vacation or
something.

Speaker A (01:02:08):
So crazy stuff, you know.
Make sure you check your closet, check your
walls, check your ceilings.
When you go to bed tonight and everything.
Make sure nobody's in them or nothing's scary.
And if it's a ghost, good, you know, at least,you know, Right?
Yeah.

Speaker C (01:02:22):
They're not as scary as humans.

Speaker A (01:02:23):
Yeah. Oh, I just got a ghost.
I can deal with that.
So before we wrap up, this has been fun asalways, and I love to have you guys on, as
much as you guys would love to come on, it'sso much fun.
But what do you guys have coming out?What episodes?
What fun things can we look forward to?

Speaker C (01:02:39):
Well, we do have another celebrity interview that's in the works,
so that one I'm going to leave a little bitsecret, but it's pretty, pretty fun one.
And then we have Crypticon coming up soon,which we're hoping to meet some more people

(01:03:01):
and have them on.
But as for episodes, what do we have comingout?
We have the Roth house coming out the next.
We're gonna do an eight year old serial
killer.
We have that one coming.

Speaker B (01:03:13):
That'll be good.

Speaker C (01:03:15):
Yeah, we've got a.
We kind of haven't really done many UFO ones.
We have a couple UFO ones coming up and then
we haven't dabbled in Cryptids for a while, sowe have a couple of those on the plate too.
So.

Speaker A (01:03:28):
Yes, Yes. I love that.
I love that.
Yeah.

Speaker C (01:03:33):
Did I miss anything? Huh, Jeremy?
Did I miss any of the.

Speaker B (01:03:37):
I don't think so.

Speaker A (01:03:38):
I think that's, that's awesome.
I look forward to it.
Yeah, I just did a thing with Sirens of theSupernatural with Appalachian Cryptids.
I would love to go there and just check thatout.

Speaker C (01:03:47):
Yes, I listened, listen to that episode.

Speaker A (01:03:49):
Love to go and check that out and everything because they just have the weirdest
stuff in there and the lights and everything.

Speaker C (01:03:56):
I love their accents, too.

Speaker A (01:03:58):
Yeah.

Speaker C (01:04:01):
Brother, that was late.

Speaker A (01:04:03):
Yes, yes.
Cousin, cousin, cousin, cousin.

Speaker C (01:04:06):
Yeah, he came on and his accent was very, very southern.

Speaker A (01:04:10):
Yeah, you, you just love those Southern people.
They're good, you know, not like we don't havean accent.
Right.

Speaker C (01:04:16):
I don't think we do.
Everybody else.

Speaker A (01:04:18):
No.
Well, thanks again for joining me.
You know, I love you guys.
And, and please check them out, you know,
on all their social media sites.
Total conundrum.
And they do great,
like I said, great content.
Eventually we'll figure out the Doveland thingand eventually,
you know, I have a good Hollywood prank.

(01:04:39):
Or I should say not Hollywood, but maybe
Halloween prank.

Speaker B (01:04:44):
All right.

Speaker C (01:04:45):
No, I'm scarred.

Speaker A (01:04:47):
Open the closet.

Speaker C (01:04:49):
Well, thanks for having us, John.
We really enjoy always anytime we do episodes
with you.

Speaker A (01:04:54):
And yes, you guys are welcome back anytime.
And again, you know, I'm looking excited tothat guest you're having.
Liberty guest.

Speaker C (01:05:03):
Yeah.

Speaker A (01:05:03):
Listen to that.

Speaker C (01:05:04):
Maybe I'll, I'll, I'll let you know secretly.
But it'll be.

Speaker A (01:05:09):
Look at that, look at that.
Offline.
I love it.
All right, well, thank you guys.

Speaker B (01:05:17):
All right, bye.

Speaker A (01:05:18):
Bye.