S3E03: Mind-Body Connection: The Body Keeps the Joy

Will and Amber’s joys this holiday season relate to holiday traditions: Amber’s recalls how her mom would give her and her brother gift every day of the month leading up to Christmas as kids, and then segueing that into gifting board games as adults, and getting to spend time together playing them; and Will talks the current tradition of he and Eric Roman getting Lego Star Wars Advent Calendars from past guest (and friend) Sandy Eichel and their wife! For this episode’s main discussion, the hosts draw on Amber’s clinical expertise in discussing wellness and the mind–body connection. This can be especially relevant around the holidays because of the stress and pressures to create joyful holiday memories, or just how the holidays can lead to spending time with extended family that might be trying. They discuss how the amygdala and prefrontal cortex influence our moods and behavior, as well as methods to bring ourselves back to a state of calm after emotions strongly impact us: One such regulatory skill uses the acronym SHINE, including your Senses, Humming, Inner Joy, Notice Color, and Exhale. This episode is also the official introduction of the Wellness Skill segment, something we’ve occasionally had but never labeled. In story time, both the positive and negative stories expand on the mind–body connection, with Amber sharing how she recognized the ways in which an unpleasant colleague was causing negative reactions in her body, and Will sharing about recognizing when aroused states (including learning another acronym, HALTS - Hungry, Angry, Late/Lonely, Tired, or Surprised) can lead to more bias.  This month’s audience question asks how mind–body connection may bring in special concerns for members of stigmatized groups, with Will and Amber addressing that topic, and tying the response back to previous discussions of racial battle fatigue. This episode’s bias habit-breaking skill involves Norm Enforcement, where people act in ways to enforce norms, including norms that arise from stereotypes, because our brains “like” when people conform to norms and “dislike” when people violate them. Amber’s joyful recommendation this episode is Jingle Jangle, a lovely musical Afro-Futuristic Christmas movie with a Black-centered cast. She also shouted out additional Black-centered Christmas movies including This Christmas, Last Holiday, and The Preacher’s Wife. Happy holidays, everyone! Now, go find your joy.

Dr. Cox’s book becomes available for preorder! The publisher is University of California Press, and the full title is Overcoming Bias Habits: An Evidence-Based Guide to Creating a Joyfully Inclusive World.

Check your small local bookstores!

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For instance, when we were younger,my mom used to do 25 Days of Christmas,

(01:30):
where every single day of themonth of December
leading up to Christmas,we would get a Christmas gift
and then we'd have a massiveChristmas still.
It was really fun.
It was kind of like an advent.
But I don't think it wassuper sustainable for her.
But there were a few yearswhere we did that.
But the few things,some of the things that did stick are: One, we -

(01:54):
which I think a lot of families do -is the matching pajama sets.
And so every Christmas we get matchingpajama sets and we take pictures together.
Well, the last few yearsI have forced my family to take pictures,
but historically we haven'tnecessarily taken pictures.
But now we take pictures together
and we all wear our matchingpajama sets together.

(02:16):
We usually stay - now as adults,
we stay at my brother's housebecause he's got the place that’s
the most centrally located for all of usand for all of us to stay.
And then we have breakfast in the morningand it's lovely.
And then the other thing that we dois that every Christmas Eve,
so we get our pajamas on Christmas Eve,
that's our giftthat we open on Christmas Eve.

(02:37):
And then my mom always gives us a new,
game - board game - that wethen open up and play together.
So historically, my mom has not reallyliked board games so much.
- Aw.- And so,
that's like the one time of yearthat she was like,
“Okay, I'll play games with you.”
And she buys us a new board game,

(02:59):
and then we play.
So she’ll like -- one year was like all classic gameslike Trouble and Clue and,
you know, Sorry and things like that.
And then other times she looks up like,
what's the new fun gamethat we can try and play together?
And so, out of that
came one of our family favorite games,which is called Killer Bunnies.

(03:23):
It's not particularlywell known but it's super fun.
And our family playsit quite frequently, actually, now.
So I it's something that I look forwardto every year.
Our little pajamasand our Christmas Eve tradition.
Oh that's wonderful.That's so nice.
Yeah.
And how about you?What's bringing you joy?
Well, my joy this episode,also kind of relates to family traditions.

(03:46):
So we also had a lot of traditions,
including the kind of pajamas, sweats,sweats set sort of thing.
And one thing that my parentsdid through all my childhood
was advent calendars.
So, as long time listeners might remember,I was born in Germany and
spent a lot of my childhood in Germany.
And so we had the little kindof chocolate advent calendars
every single year.
My parents still send us some …- I love that.

(04:08):
… that not every year, I think, butbut many of the years as adults
- and in a different way,the tradition has continued.
So, listeners might remember past guest
Sandy Eichel.
Sandy and their wife,
started givingEric Roman and I
the “Star Wars” Lego Advent calendar.
- Love, love!- Like, they found it and gave it to us one year.

(04:29):
And we just loved it.
And every single day
we'd make the little “Star Wars” Lego thingand send them a picture.
And then they did it another year,
and another year. And it'skind of our tradition with them.
So all 25 - or 24 days in an advent -
we do that.
And that means we have now this collectionof kind of “Star Wars” Christmas Lego.
So they have, like, Luke Skywalkerwith a little Christmas sweater or

(04:50):
R2-D2 with a little Christmas sweater.
And so we have this little kind of“Star Wars” Christmas nativity scene
that we're slowly building and building.- I love it!
So yeah, that's my joy.
That’s so great, I love it.It's so cute.
Yeah, I got a little Lego - well, it was off brand.
It's like Building Blocks

(05:12):
(laughs) advent set.
But it's super fun and every …
- Blasphemy! - … know, I'm so sorry.
It was a gift.
But I loved it, and it was, like,
a little stockingand little things that I built.
And it was a really nice mindfulnesspractice, too, which I loved.
- Yeah. A very nice.- Yeah.
All right.
Well, so getting into kind of our,our primary discussion topic today,

(05:35):
interesting, exciting topic,which is the mind/body connection.
And Amber is going to tell usa lot of great things about it.
But to start us off,I kind of had this, example
that I really liked from my research,education, my science -- my PhD schooling.
A lot of psychologists,
cognitive scientistsand so on kind of only study like what

(05:57):
your mind is doing,what your brain is doing
without thinkingabout the rest of your body.
And for some research questions,that can be perfectly fine.
But for many research questions,the body is really important
for understanding these kinds
of cognitive or emotional things,which is what you're going to talk more about.
But the analogy, that, that one of myprofessors made, Paula Niedenthal,

(06:18):
was something along the lines of,you know, studying the mind
without thinking aboutthe body is like studying a computer
without knowing what the computeris supposed to do.
So, for instance, it could be a computerthat's in a tractor that helps a tractor run,
or it can be a computerthat's in an airplane
that has different kinds of thingsto worry about
helping the airplane run.
And so if we ignore the human bodywhen we're trying to study the human mind,

(06:41):
we're really missinga lot of important information.
And I always really like that analogy.
So when you want to talk about this,I was like, “bringing that in.”
Yeah.
But so tell us, Amber,what's up with the mind/body connection?
Thank you. Yeah.
I, you know, I think that as I was sitting
with the idea of our holiday episode and

(07:02):
all of the
things that we talk about, one,it can be really activating.
We talk so much about joy,which is a huge antidote
to all of the thingsthat we that we discuss.
And there's this other sidethat there's a lot of stress in that too.
- The pressure to create that joy.- The pressure, right.
- Like your mom and the 25 gifts.- Exactly! Right?
And I'm just thinking aboutholiday time -

(07:25):
for everyone - it can be this time
that is -- paints this picture of this
like perfect picture of holiday and lights
and like joy and memory and …Sure. And also
it is a time that createsso much stress, right?
Right.

(07:45):
Parents trying to create memories.
One of my favorite Christmas moviesis “Christmas Vacation”, and it's all about
this dad trying to makeit a perfect holiday.
And all of these memoriesand how stressful that can be.
And I just thought like, you know,what better for us to do is to talk about
how we can take care of ourselvesand how we can center some wellness

(08:09):
as we go through the holiday seasonand acknowledge
all of the things that can come upwhen stress arises from and during that.
Because the other thing that happensduring the holiday, not only just
the stress of creatinga picture perfect moment,
but we're alsoaround our families and
that can bring upall kinds of things, too.

(08:31):
Right?
And we have conversationsaround identity and politics
and faith and religionand belonging and all of those things
which can also cause a lot more stressand pressure on your system.
Yup.
I really wanted to talk about,like I said, the mind/body connection
and what that means and what we can dowith that to center wellness

(08:55):
and help us through this season,but not just the season.
It's kind of like a a year round thing,
but recognizing that this can bea particularly stressful time.
Yeah!
So, I want to start with two things.
One is if you -you and the listeners can just stop
and think like, as you're gettingready for the holiday season,

(09:19):
what kinds of things come upboth in your body, like
where do you feel it in your bodyif you just take like, just a moment
to, like, sit with yourself,feel your body.
When you think about the holidays,where does it come up in your body?
I think chest.
I mean, not just because you'regesturing at your chest right now.

(09:40):
I am! (Laughing)
But actually, if even if I hadn'tseen you do that I think. Yeah.
Yeah. Chest.
And that can be -- and then sitting withlike, “Okay, what kind of feeling?
Is that a tight feeling?Is it a warm feeling?
What does that feel like for you?”
- The thing that came up for me
is thinking of like lots of partiesand events to go to.
I'm like, “Oh, another thing.”

(10:01):
- Yeah.
And so that has a littlebit of that tightness.
- 100%! Right?
So there's like this anticipation,
there's excitement.And. There's stress with that.
Right? So it can cause this tightness.
And so the reason I like to dothat is for us to gain awareness of
when we hear somethingthat it can impact how our body feels it

(10:22):
and where we feel it in our body.
So, we talk a lot about cognitivebehavioral therapy.
And you said that,you know, a lot of researchers
will not talk about howit impacts the body.
And so CBT or cognitive behavioraltherapy is the second wave of behaviorism.
Right.
So behavioral therapyis kind of very strict

(10:44):
like Pavlov, right?
I ring a bell and thenall of a sudden the dog salivates
because it knows it'sgoing to be getting food. Right?
- Stimulus response.
Stimulus response, very quick connection.Cognitive behavioral is saying like,
“Oh, but there's also some thoughtsthat come along with that.” Right?
Now, what we're talking abouttoday is like the absolutely

(11:06):
the behavior part is also part ofour body, is the thing
that we're doing, a thingthat's actually the action part of it.
The third wave of this whole area
is, third wave CBT.
And this is really mindfulness, right?
And is talking about like,
ACT, which is,

(11:26):
acceptance and commitment therapy,and other mindfulness practices
is really saying that this is also partof how we embody,
cognitions and behaviorsand how it impacts our body,
and that we have to tendto our body as well.
So one of the things that I always liketo do with folks
when I'm talking about mindfulness, whenI'm talking about mind/body connection,

(11:50):
I do this with my kids,
I do it with adultsand everyone in between,
is Dan Siegel's hand model of the brain.
So I'm just going to describe it with you.
If you take your handand you make a four. Yep.
And then you close thefingers over the top,
he would like to say --
- So you're holding the thumb inside.- Yep.

(12:11):
This is a “handy model of the brain”because it's your hand.
So it's handy. (Laughing)
Kind of a little bit lookslike the shape of the brain.
The knuckles would like bethe prefrontal cortex.
Exactly. Yep.
So the knuckles, or the front part ofyour hand, would be the part
right behind your forehead,which is the prefrontal cortex.
Now, the prefrontal cortex is responsiblefor all of the things that's called

(12:33):
executive functioning.
Right?
So executive functioninghelps us with regulation.
It helps us remain calm.
It helps us with impulse control.
It helps us with,
thinking.
Problem solving.
Problem solving, doing thingsin the right order.
With my kids I'll say,

(12:54):
so it helps us remember that we put oursocks on before we put our shoes on.
Right? Because the other wayaround ends up with soggy socks.
And nobody likes soggy socks, right?
It helps us with making sense of things.
Right?
So, like, we actually arebetter able -- again,
problem solving and thinking throughand being able to understand
what is right, what is wrong,what makes sense, and what doesn't.

(13:16):
Again, with my kids,I will talk about how --
we have a big fish tank in the lobbyof the clinic that I work at,
and I said,“If we had the fish tank in here,
we know that the fishes aren'tgoing to jump outside of the fish tank
and start walking aroundand talking to us, right?”
That's this part of the brain,helps us make sense of things.
And again, that impulse control,right, helps us to,
stop ourselvesbefore we do something impulsive.

(13:40):
Now the thumb part, if we open our hands,we keep our hands still formed in a four,
the thumb part really representsthe amygdala area.
And the amygdala is the feeling center.
Right?
And so with my kids,I talk about “Inside Out”, right?
Like this is headquarters in “Inside Out”.
Right?(Both laughing)
These are all of the feelings.
- All of your emotions. - Where all of your emotions live.

(14:01):
Your feelings center.
And really, the sciencebehind it is
that when our feelingsand emotions are activated,
we get a flood of all the chemicalsthat produce all of our emotions.
Right?
In your brain and into your body.
Right, exactly.
In our brain and in our body.
And what happens is,is that receptors from the amygdala

(14:22):
and this part of our brain,the limbic system
to the prefrontal cortex,actually shut down, which means
all of those chemicalskind of stay in that area longer,
which means, in Dan Siegel'shand model of the brain,
we flip our lid.So the fingers go up
and we're kind of being runby our base instincts,

(14:43):
being run by our limbic system.
You don’t have that prefrontal cortex …
Our prefrontal cortexhas shut off essentially.
Right?
Because the receptors
from the limbic systemto the prefrontal cortex have shut down.,
the prefrontal cortex is operatingon very low connectivity to your body.
Right?- Yeah.
Meaning we then are reacting on emotion

(15:06):
rather than our regulated and wise mind.Right?
And not being our best selves.
And not being our best selves.
Being our best selves requires thatengagement of the prefrontal cortex.
Executive functioning.- Exactly.
The prefrontal cortex
and the executive function helps usstay regulated
and in our wise and calm state in mind.

(15:27):
So when we have flipped our lid,what that does is --
and we start to feel it in our body, right?
Physically,so we feel it in our body two ways.
Like I say, my kids,we feel in our body two ways.
One is how we feel it inside our body.
So we might feel butterfliesin my stomach.
We might feel upset to our stomach.
One of my kids says, “I feel barfy.” Right?
Like I feel like I'm throw up, right?

(15:48):
We might feel ourheart rate increasing.
We might feel sweaty or shakyor a headache.
I tend to feel like my earsget really hot.
Yeah, you mentioned that before.- My ears get really hot.
And that's kind of a cue for me, like,“Oh, what's going on for me?”
And so
that's one way that our body feels thatwhen we have kind of flipped our lid,

(16:09):
we also know that it goesthe other way around.
This is how themind/body connection works.
Our emotions impact our body,but our body also impacts our emotions.
So for instance, have you ever been sickand throwing up and happy
at the same time?
- Uh, No.- Right. Yeah.
And you might feel relieved.
You might feel happy afterwards, but it'sreally hard to do it at the same time.

(16:30):
So when we're sick or when there'ssomething going on with us physically,
it's also going to impact
our mood and and our feelings, right?How we're feeling.
So our job is now to figure out like,how do we regulate ourselves?
Meaning how do we get our fingers,our prefrontal cortex, back online?
How do we close the lid?

(16:52):
- Mindfulness!- Mindfulness! Yes!
Absolutely. And soone of the many ways …
Take a deep breath.
… Yes. Taking deep breaths.
So there are lots of waysin which we do that.
But again, because our body and our mindare so connected,
we have to think about “both/and” - again,“Diverse Joy” Bingo.

(17:13):
“Both/and.”
And so Bessel van der … Hook?
Kolk. Kolk. I always forget his name.
Bessel van der Kolk, who wrote “The Body Keepsthe Score”, talks a lot about this,
how both our joyand our pain resides in our body,
and we have to adjust,and we have to tend to our body in order

(17:36):
to find that place of wholeness,wellness and regulation.
Right?
And so he really -- his whole
book is all about how we hold trauma,how we hold things in our body.
And oftentimes we will feel it in our bodybefore we even have the thoughts
or the cognitionsor the things to describe what's going on.

(18:00):
Right?
Like I said, I might feel my earsstart to burn.
Something's going on in my bodythat I need to tend to.
And so another thing that happensare the ways in which we talk about,
how to regulate.
And it really comes out of a lot of the traumaresearch is Polyvagal Theory.

(18:20):
Now, let me just be very clearthat I am no expert in Polyvagal Theory,
but essentially what it talks about is,you know,
most people know fight or flight.Fight, flight, freeze, freak out.
Right? You've heard that term before.
So what it really talks aboutis these kind of three levels of how
our vagus and parasympatheticand sympathetic nervous system works.

(18:45):
And so the sympathetic,is really our fight or flight state.
It's kind of most activated,most flipped lid, flipped brain,
(Chuckles)
state, dysregulated state. Right?
We're in this like activatedfight or flight.
Then we have the dorsal vagal, which isthe freeze, and kind of shut down state.

(19:07):
And then what we're really tryingto get to is the ventral vagal,
which is that parasympathetic state,which is rest and digest.
It is our safety calm state.
And all of this is, is part of, again,
that mind/body connectionthat we are feeling safe and calm

(19:29):
and regulated when we can have, our mindand our body most connected.
Absolutely.
Yeah.- Makes sense.
Yeah.
So, I have lots of ideas and things that
I'd love to share with everybody
about how we can keep ourselves regulated.

(19:50):
And, I have five simple stepsand five simple things
that you can do on a regular basisto do just that.
And we can talk about themmore after the break.
All right. That sounds wonderful.
All right.
We'll be back in a moment.
[ “Diverse Joy” interstitial music plays ]

(20:11):
Welcome back from break.
One last little bit onour main discussion topic.
So, a wonderful psychologist,social psychologist like me,
who I absolutely adore,
Professor Wendy Berry Mendes.
She's a really great person and doesamazing research, and she does a lot
on kind of approach and avoidanceand the sympathetic parasympathetic stuff.

(20:33):
And I remember in a talk that she gave,
talking about how some of these,these things work with your body.
And one of the things that she said
was, you know, when you'rein that kind of highly anxious state,
what your nervous system does is itkind of redirects
your blood into your body,so into your major organs
to kind of keep themrunning nicely,
keeps that high heart rateor things like that,

(20:56):
which means it draws blood out of
your extremities, your handsand your feet.
And so people will get cold handswhen their anxiety goes up.
And so when she had grad studentswho would be about
to give a presentation,she didn't want them to be highly anxious.
And they started learningthat she would grab their hands and feel
if their hands are cold or warm.- That’s so funny.

(21:17):
And also getting intowhat you're about to talk about,
how to deal with these things,eating can help with this a bit.
Because part of what can fuelyour anxiety is if your body feels like
it doesn't have enough resourcesto deal with the threats.
But if you have afull stomach,
your body feels like,“Oh, I've got resources and it can help.”
What Amber is about to shareis a new segment.

(21:41):
Except it's not really a new segmentbecause it's something that Amber
has done throughout thetime we've had the podcast.
But we thought as the podcast continuesto evolve and we're thinking about things,
Amber, from her backgroundas a clinical psychologist,
has always shared coping skills,wellness skills, life skills related to that.

(22:02):
But we never had a special segment for it.
And we do our habit-breaking skillsevery episode.
So we're going to start doingthis kind of wellness thing.
Maybe not every episode, but,
but whenever, we have somethingor Amber has something to share.
So first ever wellness skills segments.
Amber, you you had some stuff to shareabout how to kind of deal with this.

(22:26):
When anxiety -- is it anxiety specific or any …?
It's really - sure, anxiety -but it is any ways,
any time that we need to centerourselves, any time that we need
to create, a mind/body connection,I think anxiety is the most clear,
evidence of need for it, right?

(22:47):
We feel it the most in our body,most quickly recognizable in our body.
But we feel it.
We see it in depressionand we see it, again,
in trauma.
We also see it when we'reoverly excited, too, right?
It's like it's not just the quoteunquote negative emotions and things.
We feel it when we're overexcited as well.
I was going to say, some of the flipyour lid stuff, you were talking about

(23:10):
reminded me of maniaand bipolar disorder.
So, you know,people are having a manic episode.
They feel great
but they're making bad choices.
Exactly. Yeah.
They have lost connectionto their prefrontal cortex.
Right? The impulse controlis completely gone.
And so, yeah, this is not just an anxiety,depression, stress related thing.

(23:32):
Those just tend to be the ones that weconnect to or more quickly recognize
our body symptomsthan we do for other things.
And I think, and I'mspeaking a little outside my expertise.
So, don't repeat this without checkingyourselves, listeners, but I think
that's also, a bit more in Westerncultures, the kind of anxiety thing.

(23:54):
So one of my other professorsthat I worked with,
Uri Miyamoto,studied kind of cultural psychology
and, you know, inWestern cultures like the U.S.,
when you're happy, most Westernerstend to want to keep being happy.
They want to maintainthat level of happiness.
Whereas in Eastern cultures,not all, but some,
including Japan specifically,people see that

(24:17):
as a state of activation that they wantto kind of come back down from.
So it's about recentering.
You don't want to maintain thatsuper high happy state,
because that's not kind of the goalin a lot of kind of Eastern psychology, uh,
cultures.
Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
No, I love that.
I mean, I think what it's speakingto is a regulated state.
Right?

(24:38):
And again, in DBT, so dialectical behavioral therapy,
they'll talk about the wise mind,which I kind of alluded to earlier.
The wise mind is really this ideaof a regulated state, right?
Where my prefrontal cortex is online.
It's connected to my limbic system.
It's all of those things together.
Doesn't mean that we'renot experiencing joy,
that we're not experiencingthose things,

(25:00):
but it is in to a placewhere it's an unhealthy level.
Right? Because when we have sustained
activation, whether that joy or stressor trauma or whatever else
we are over activating
our adrenal glandson our adrenal system
and pumping cortisol and pumping dopamineand pumping these things into our system.

(25:24):
- And we're going to crash, right?- We’ll crash. It's not sustainable.
So being able to find - again,
I talk about this with my kids - is that we have all of our feelings.
We should have all of our feelings.
We need to feel all of our feelings,
and we need to feel it in such a waythat we can still maintain control.
We need to be able to stay connectedto our self and our body.
Who you are, your your best self.

(25:45):
Our best self.
Absolutely. So.- How do we do that?
What’s our skill?
So, the skill that I wantto talk today is -
I love a good acronym.- I know you do!
I find every possible wayto create an acronym.
And so today I'm just going to share five

(26:05):
very quick mindfulness strategies.
And since this is our cozyholiday, episode,
I want you to think of these as likelittle mini stocking stuffers
for your system, for your nervous system.
Ways in which you
can calm your system down, especiallyas we're going through the holiday season.

(26:26):
But really, at any time of life.And this is a way that you can “shine”
even when things are
dark and dim, through the holidays.
So the acronym is SHINE.And the first one is your Senses.
So the I really like to dothe five senses activity.

(26:47):
So, what happenswhen we get really activated,
particularly in anxiety, is thatwe get really stuck in our head, right?
We get stuck in our cognitions, we getstuck in ruminating on our thoughts.
And when we're stuckkind of in our thoughts
and in our mind,we have lost connection to the here now.
We've lost connection to our bodybecause we're just super heady, right?

(27:12):
Kind of like in the in the movie“Inside Out 2”
when Anxiety is justrunning out of control.
Exactly, thank you.
I didn't even have to mention it,I talk about it all the time.
Right?
In “Inside Out 2”,she’s literally like this little storm
and all of the other feelingsare trying to do their thing.
And poor little Riley is sitting therehaving like a panic attack, right?
Stuck in her mind,not in her body.

(27:33):
So the senses.
So we want to engage all of our sensesso that we can kind of
bring ourself back into feeling,feeling our body.
So you start, it’s five, four,three, two, one.
So you start with five thingsthat you can see.
So the red bulbs, the green tablecloth,
the tree mug, your overalls.

(27:55):
The plant.
So five things you can see.Four things which you can feel
and touch and kind of feelthem as you're doing it.
Again, the table cloth,the metal of the microphone.
You know, this clipboard, the mug.
Four things that you can feel.Three things that you can hear.

(28:19):
And you have to kind of settle yourselfenough to, like, listen around you.
Sometimes you're in a quiet spaceand you got to like,
“What am I hearing?”Right?
Sometimes it's just the vents,
like a light breeze.
Somebody in the next room.
Then it's two things that you can smell.
So that can be a little hard.
But it’s again, centering yourselfto really pay attention.

(28:42):
Like, what am I smelling right now?
- “Is it just like dust or…?”
Sometimes.
Sometimes.I always recommend to my kids,
you can smell your shirtor your hair or your hands.
I often recommend keeping, like,aromatherapy scented lotion
on hand that you can kind ofput on your hands and that aromatherapy

(29:03):
really activates your system and helpsto calm that vagus nerve down there.
It helps pull us backinto that parasympathetic system.
And the last is somethingthat you can taste. Right?
So sometimes it's just spit.
(Both laughing)
Right?
It's something stale.
Maybe it's a remnant of somethingthat you ate earlier.

(29:25):
Maybe it's somethingthat you have in front of you.
I'll often recommend having like some
Tic Tacs or mints or gum,
something sour; something that you can put inand you can kind of just --
Or chocolates.
Something that you can put in your mouth
and then just taste and pay attentionto the taste.
Again, what this does is itpulls you back into your body

(29:46):
and into the here and now, versusbeing stuck in your mind.
H stands for hum.
So humming or singing is another --
so in “My Grandmother's Hands”
Resmaa … Resmaa …I'm looking at our (producer).
Double check last name.

(30:07):
What is “Grandmother’s Hands”,is this a movie?
“My Grandmother’s Hands”. No, it's another book.It's similar. It's a book.
Similar to “The Body Keeps a Score”
It talks a lotabout the embodiment of trauma.
Specifically -- Oh, yes. Thank you.
Resmaa Menakem
Yes. Menakem.
Resmaa Menakem.
Excellent book.

(30:27):
It really talks about the embodimentfrom a BIPOC perspective specifically,
but he talks a lot about this.
The humming, the move--
the motion, the feeling,the vibration in your body,
how that can calm, again,your vagus nerve and your system.
So humming just for like 30 seconds.And co-regulating with somebody else.

(30:50):
So like if you and I were to hum together,even just a singular note,
creates connection.
But we're also co-regulating. MeaningI'm borrowing -- if I'm stressed out
I'm borrowing from your nervous systemand our connection to regulate each other.
I don't know this this workvery well but that reminds me

(31:12):
of kind of Buddhist meditationwhere there's like the,
(Both) “om”
and there's even more …- 100%.
… there's something -there's another word for it,
but they can get into this really deep,like sternum, vibrating hum.
- Yes.
Which I'm guessing is connectedto this!
That’s connected to this; absolutely.
So the humming, the resonating.
So that can be humming.It can be singing.

(31:33):
So with the parents of my kids,I'll talk about singing together.
Hold them while you're singing becausethen you can you can share the vibrations.
Yeah, exactly.
So hum.
So it’s Senses, Humming…
I is Inner joy.
So of course I bring like a little joy in.- On brand for us.

(31:56):
But this is like a,this is a gratefulness practice.
And it's going through, it'skind of like what we mentioned at the,
what I mentioned
at the very beginning where it's like,where do you feel this in your body?
But if you just take a moment of like,where am I feeling joy in my body?
Even a micro recognition ofwhere am I feeling joy?

(32:16):
How am I feeling joy? Inwhat thing am I feeling joy?
So it's like it's a gratitude practice.
And I think you've talkedabout this long ago.
Maybe first season.
Like your glasses.- Right!
You always wear somethingthat when you see yourself in the mirror,
it brings you just a little bit of joy.
Micro moments of joy.
And so finding that moment of like,what is my micro moment of joy?

(32:38):
Where is my inner joycoming from in this moment?
Right?
Connecting to that.
- N is Notice colors.
So, there are two waysthat you can do this.
This is another kind of grounding,
like the Senses,is another grounding exercise.
There are two ways that you can do this.
One is going on a color walk,which I absolutely recommend

(33:02):
because the research aroundconnection to nature
and the mind/body connectionis astounding.
As low as 90 seconds to five minutes
can absolutely regulateyour system and improves
overall health and wellnessand sense of well-being,
even VR! Virtual green spaces

(33:25):
can help improve your overall well-being.
They've done all these studies on,
like inmate populations,where they’ve exposed them to just like,
greenery on the outside of prisons
or to virtual reality green spaces.
And that that helps their overallmood, well-being, quality of life.

(33:46):
So I always recommend a walkbecause that helps
get you outsideand gives you that nature space as well.
But you can also do it as a pause.
So what you do is you choose a color
and then all you're doingis you're noticing. Noticing the color.
So if you chose red, I'd say yourred overalls, the red on Stitch’s mug,

(34:07):
the red bulbs here,the red in my mug,
the Santa sack,the red on my glasses,
on my pajamas,and all of these places.
And we just take a moment to kind ofjust look around
and noticeall of the red things in our space.
So if you're going on a walk,
red is the color, you justkind of notice every red thing.

(34:30):
- “I spy something red!”
I spy, yes!I spy with my little eye
something red,something red, something red.
Right?
And you can justkeep doing that.
So that kind of matchesthe five things you can see.
But it's still different because you'recoming at it from a different name.
Right. Exactly.
It's narrowing it a little bitso that you're

(34:50):
just focusing and noticing on one thing.
So it's still attentional.
It's bringing your attention to somethingelse, bringing you back into the here and now,
into the present momentand noticing what's around you.
And then E.So the last one is E,
and that is Exhale.
So like movie “Waiting to Exhale”.

(35:12):
Exhaling. That really helps us.
This is this the breathing orbreath practice.
So taking deep breaths.Everybody talks about,
“I'll just take a deep breath,”and people will kind of brush it off
because it feels really woowooor very simple.
But it works in our system, right?

(35:34):
It absolutely helps to engage
our parasympathetic nervous system
and helps us regulate and calm down.
So my favorite one --
And reduces cortisol levels and cortisolbeing related to stress and the stress hormone.
So I'm going to teach you my favorite one.
Again, I teach it to my kidsand I teach it to the adults, all alike.

(35:59):
And what it is is called a volcano breath.
- Okay.(Both laughing)
So what you dois you take your hands like you're
in a praying motion,
and then you're goingto take a deep breath
in through your nose and move your handsall the way up to a tree pose,
hold it there for a few seconds
and then blow out and hands --

(36:21):
yes, out through your mouth! --and hands down.
Let’s describe it for the listeners;
starting with your your hands in a prayerposition in front of your chest.
And then what she called treepose is up all the way up,
stretching up above your head.
And then you break them out.- Stretch.
And then hands down, as if the lavais coming out of the volcano.
Pushing the lava up,and then out.

(36:42):
Yep. So in through your nose.Hold.
And then out through your mouthand your hands come down.
The best thing with that isthat it, one,
it's giving you the oxygen.
It's engaging your parasympathetic system.
And it is slowingyour heart rate,

(37:04):
it’s slowing your breathing.And the volcano,
the reason I like the volcano breathis it also helps engage
relaxing your muscles, too.
Because when we are stressed out,when we're anxious,
we again, we hold it in our bodyand we feel it in our muscles.
This is why we like to get massageswhen we're stressed out, right?

(37:25):
Is becausewe hold the tension in our body.
So volcano breathhelps us move and stretch out our muscles
while also getting a good deep breath in.

So: Senses, (37:35):
undefined
Hum,
Inner joy,
Notice colors,
and Exhale.
I like it!SHINE.
- Yeah.- Everybody SHINE.
SHINE your way through the season
and let them be your littlenervous system
stocking stuffers this season.- And year round.

(37:55):
And year round. Yes.
Awesome.Thank you.
I'm definitely going to keep that in mind.
So useful. All right.
So next we have some story timeand our stories
kind of relate tosome of what we've been talking about.
So, Amber, you had a short negative storythat you were going to share.
Well, again, related to therecognizing our body, right?

(38:18):
Is that a couple episodes agoin the end of season two,
we talked about Pet to Threat,
which we've mentioned a couple of timesalready this season.
And I started realizing
every time I saw thisperson's name show up --
The person who’s kindof the source of your Pet to Threat.
The source of my Pet to Threat situation.

(38:41):
Every time I saw their namecome up on my phone, on social media,
the idea that I could be in the roomwith this person,
all of a sudden,I caught myself, like, holding my breath.
And feeling tight in my chest
or feeling shaky, andI was like, “Man, what's going on?”

(39:02):
And I had to take the couple stepsback and ask myself, “What is this?”
And I realized,it's really easy for me - prior - to just,
you know, (makes sound), “Whatever.”
“Oh, I forgot to breathe for a second.”Or whatever it was to brush it off.
And then I start to realize, like, “Oh,this is my body's reaction to this person.”

(39:23):
This is the anxiety that's coming up.
This is remnants of trauma that arepopping up, and I'm holding it in my body.
And I have to, now that I'm aware of it,
make decisions around whatthat means, around taking care of myself
and reconnecting with my bodyand not putting it in a place
where it feels danger.(Laughs)

(39:45):
So listening to whatyour body's telling you and then,
making choices to, to be healthy.
- Absolutely.- And take care of yourself.
Yeah. Yeah.
That's good.
I mean, it is our negative story,but it is kind of also a positive story
because you realized what was happeningand made a positive change.
I'm working on it. I'm working onmaking those changes.

(40:07):
In progress.
In progress, in progress. Yes.
Awesome.
Well then,I had the officially positive story.
So some of what we talked about today,like when
you flip your lid, to use that analogy,when I was an undergraduate in college,
maybe a junior, and I was workingfull time at Home Depot and

(40:30):
my psychology major, I learned aboutkind of losing your ability
to regulate when you'reoverly excited or
tired or all these kinds of things.
And especially in the context of bias,
which, you know,ended up being what I study
and what we talkabout a lot on this podcast,
when you losethat kind of regulatory ability,
when you flip your lid, you tend to show --you will show more bias

(40:52):
because you don't have that kindof regulatory stuff in place.
And that was like a big thing for me.
I was like, “Oh man,
that's how this works.”
And so one day I was late for work,
and I was literally runningto get to my workplace on time.
And I lived in Florida,so this was in Florida heat.
And I was sweaty and I was exhausted and Iwas aggravated because I was late and

(41:15):
and I remember thinking like,“Oh, that thing I just learned in class,
if I encountered someone right now,I'd be especially likely to express bias.”
- Yeah, that's good.
And, so it's the positive story.
I didn't then express bias or anything.
I wasn't really in a situation for it.
But having learned that fact.
That awareness, and we talkabout awareness skills all the time

(41:37):
became a cue for control,is what we talk about it.
So when I noticethat I'm in an agitated state or tired or,
short on time,I always kind of have my antenna go up:
“Right now is the time when I might bemore likely to show bias.
More likely to make bad, rash decisions.”
And I use that to -- well, now I can use itto SHINE and be like,

(41:58):
“Maybe this is a chance to SHINE” --
but recognizing that maybe I'm notgoing to be my quote unquote best self,
because that executive function isdepleted or not connected in the same way.
- Absolutely.
It reminds me of so like yousaid, like, “Oh, I'm running late,”
or those things that my --there's also this acronym HALTS.
I don't know if you've heard of it before,but that those states that we might

(42:20):
be more quickly activated, in a dysregulated state
is hungry, angry, lonely, late, tired, or surprised.
So any of those times
we are just already going to be --
- Like the Snickers commercial.
(Both) You’re not yourselfwhen you're hungry.
Exactly. And that's true, right?

(42:41):
Yeah.
You're not. Your body is not, likeyou were saying earlier --
Yeah, all of those iswhen bias is going to be more likely.
Exactly.
So HALTS can help you.
Also where is awareness of like
when might I be more likelyto express these things?
Any of those times.
- Yeah, very cool.
Two acronyms for everyone today.
Yeah.

(43:01):
Like I said,I've always got an acronym on hand.
All right.
Well, we're going to take our last breakand then be back with question time.
[ “Diverse Joy” interstitial music plays ]
Welcome back.
All right. So now it's question time.
So our question kind of ties backto what we've been discussing.

(43:24):
So we were talking about this
kind of mind/body connectionfor everyone, for people in general.
But in addition to the joy part of the podcast,there's a diversity part of the podcast.
So are there special concerns when we'retalking about this mind/body connection,
for members of stigmatized groups,for folks of color,
LGBTQ+ folks,people with disabilities and,

(43:46):
and so on, that that might have specialor additional concerns.
Absolutely.
So when we're thinking about --I mentioned
several times about racial battle fatigue,so these kind of
building of microaggressionsand whether that's a racial
or that’s other kind of minoritizedor stigmatized identity marker,

(44:08):
things, whether that's real, perceived,
or community oriented, talking aboutintergenerational trauma.
All of these things.
Even just concern that bias might happenbecause, you know, it exists
and maybe thinking about it too much.
Going out into spaceswith an uncertainty
then causes an activation of your system

(44:31):
and contributesto what's considered the allostatic load.
Right?
So the allostatic load isthis kind of wear and tear on our system,
the activation of pumping out cortisolinto our bodies.
And so this also leads to worsehealth outcomes as well.
Right?
Long term and --
Long term and short term.
And so yes, for minoritizedand marginalized groups,

(44:54):
the constant pieces,the uncertainty around spaces,
sense of safety,
experiencing of microaggressionstowards a part of their identity.
All of those things contribute to a senseof like ongoing stress, which is
decreasing their mind/body connection

(45:17):
and pumping in stress hormonesthat then can lead
to actually worse health outcomesas well as mental health outcomes, too.
Very good.
Well, bad that it happens,but a good answer to the question.
It’s true. Thank you.
Yes, very true.(Both laughing)
Yeah.
And then some of those coping,like the SHINE.

(45:39):
Right.
Can be especially useful.- Absolutely. Yep.
And going into the awarenessof recognizing like,
“Hey, I'm about to step into a space that I knowis activating for me, how can I go in?”
And I didn't talk about this before,but the SHINE really is
kind of a preventative measure, right?
Mind/body connection, mindfulness,all of those things can be preventative.

(46:02):
“I'm going in with the awareness,knowing that when I'm around these people,
these folks, my family,when I'm around or in this space,
I might be activated in this way,might cause me to be hungry, angry,
lonely, late, tired, distressed,or surprised.”
Right?
And how can I preventativelyand intentionally make sure that I'm

(46:23):
regulating my system into those spacesso that we can mitigate any responses,
harmful responses that can come fromthat allostatic load that can come from …
Stress load.
Stress load that can comefrom being a minoritized group.
All right.
Yeah.
So, as we just close outour episode, Will, what is

(46:43):
the habit-breaking skillthat we're talking about today?
All right.
So our habit-breaking skill, this month,something called Norm Enforcement.
So it really builds onwhat we've been talking about,
what we talked about,especially the last episode.
We always or often talk about stereotypesand biases, as you know,
being assumptions relatedto what someone's going to be like.

(47:05):
Like people maybe make an assumption
that a Black person is goingto be athletic or a good singer,
or an assumption that maybe womenare going to be loving and nurturing,
men are going to be good leaders, maybe,that's another stereotype.
So we have these stereotypes that give usexpectations about what people are like
based on their group statuses,but they tend to become norms.

(47:27):
So we tend to thinkwe have those expectations
because that's the waythe world should be,
not necessarily consciously,as with a lot of what we talk about.
It can be unintentional,
but one of the things that happens iswhen someone violates a norm,
we get aggravated andfrustrated at them.
It relates to what we weretalking about last episode,
with our habits getting disrupted, we get theseaggravated, frustrated feelings.

(47:50):
So Norm Enforcement,to break those two words apart:
So you have these norms,very often that come from stereotypes.
And when someone violates them,you try to enforce the norm.
So for instance, in workplaces,if there are women who are assertive,
putting forward their ideas,maybe trying to take leadership roles,
that violates the kind of norm,the way things have always been,

(48:11):
or we think they've always been - sayingthat women aren’t in leader roles,
they're supposed to be supportersrather than leaders,
is how a lot of folks talk about it.
And so the women who are kind of pushingforward and maybe engaging in behaviors
that get praised when men do them,we tend to not like them as much.
And people will do things,maybe to sabotage them,
put them in their place, so to speak.
They're trying to enforce the norm.- Yeah.

(48:32):
So in terms of this being a skill,what I really want folks to do is kind of start --
again, tune into those frustrated,aggravated feelings,
and say like, “Well,where are these coming from?”
Are they coming from what the person doing
actually being wrong or somethingthey shouldn't be doing?
Or could it bethat they're violating a norm

(48:53):
and I haven't examined that norm in my selfyet or haven't haven't caught that yet.
And I mostly talk about this
in terms of norms related to stereotypes,of course, because I’m stereotyping researcher,
but it can be other kinds of norms as well.
In science domains,
a way we see this a lot, as well,is in communication style.
So a lot of areas of sciencehave had a historic

(49:14):
kind of very assertive,very aggressive communication style where,
you know, two people are debatingtheir scientific ideas.
Right.
Some people will call that a very male,
stereotypically malecommunication style.
And then peoplewho are maybe a little quieter or,
less likely to be aggressive in that way,
their ideas don't get listened to.

(49:35):
And so there are norms in sciencegroups, science labs, work groups
where only the people who are being loudand in-your-face,
only their ideas get attention.
And that's another placewhere this can happen.
The person who's not speaking up,
they're not living upto the norm of this workplace.
And that can happenin academic systems, too.
Oh, absolutely.
- I saw that happen a lot where facultyor teachers would say,

(49:58):
“Oh, this person's not engaged becausethey're not speaking out loud a lot.”
And I was like, “But they're thoughtfulin their discussions.
They're talking in their small groups.”
Let's rethink some of these normsthat we're expecting.
So it shows up in lots of ways.
- Yes, absolutely.
All these kinds of norms.
One other I talk about sometimes
I think we might have mentioned thiswith Nicki once, past guest Nicki Vander Muelen,

(50:21):
so imagine that you'retalking with someone
who uses assistive device,or maybe a translator
if we're talking about across languages,
it necessarily makesyou have to go slower.
It interrupts your typical flow.
That's another kind of habit disruption.
Your norm, your normalway of talking has to get disrupted.
It will give you aggravatedand frustrated feelings.

(50:42):
And so understanding,“Oh, disruption gives those feelings.”
If you can kind of recognize that, maybeyou SHINE a little bit to reduce that,
will will stop you from maybe
lashing out at that person when it'sreally not something they're doing wrong.
It's just your habit disruptiongiving you those feelings.
- Such a great example.
I have a friend,I think I've mentioned her before, but,

(51:04):
Alette Coble-Temple, and she talks about - she has CP -
and she talks about having a CP accent
and that it requires people to slow downand pay attention a little bit more.
- Cerebral palsy, is CP.- Cerebral palsy. Yep.
That forces folks to slow down
and pay attention a little bit more, butit's no different than any other accent.

(51:25):
But it can bring upthose frustrated feelings.
That does force us to pay attention
to the cues, find ways to regulate,SHINE our way through it.
- Yeah. Awesome.
One last little bit and then we'llbe on the recommendation.
We also like itwhen people conform to norms.
And so sometimes thosefolks get praised more.

(51:47):
We think they'redoing better at their jobs.
Kind of like what you said with students.
Like maybe the ones speaking up.
“Oh, they’re good.”- “They’re great. They’re so engaged.”
- “They talk all the time.”- “They’re so smart!”
But maybe you're not listeningto what they're saying.
You just notice they're talking a lot.Potentially.
- Right, right.- Not accusing anyone specifically.
So it can also be that positive side
which is not net positivefor your educational outcomes,

(52:08):
if that's the context we're talking about.
Your scientific outcomes,
if you're listening to the loudest peopleit doesn't mean they're the most correct.
Absolutely true.
Absolutely, you can be
loud and confidentand very wrong.
Very much so.
(Amber laughing)
So, yeah.
So, think about that, folks.
And as always, send in your exampleson DiverseJoy.com.

(52:29):
Your questions, also, I should have saidthat during the question segment.
So Amber, what is your joyfulrecommendation this month.
It’s our holiday season.
So -- I've shared before thatI love my Christmas and holiday movies.
So I thought I would share oneof my favorites, which is “Jingle Jangle”.
It's on … - (Both) “Jingle Jangle”!

(52:50):
It is a Black-centered cast, and it is
kind of Afro futuristic.
And also it's got a little (stammering).
But it's also set in, like,
I don't even sure what year set in,but, it is beautiful.
It's a musical and it's a story abouta toymaker and his family

(53:12):
and like, how his design gets stolen,
and he kind of loses his spark,but his grandkids bring his spark
and joy back to toy making,and it's just beautiful.
It's got Forest Whitaker,Phylicia Rashad, Keegan-Michael Key.
It's on Netflix.- Heavy hitters!
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
It's amazing.

(53:34):
The little toy comes to life.
It's just - it's lovely.
But I just - I love that this is just likea Christmas holiday movie
that has a Black-centered cast,which there not a whole lot of them.
Some other ones that I really like are“This Christmas”,
which also has someheavy hitters like, Idris Elba,

(53:55):
and Regina King, Loretta Devine,
I also like “Last Christmas”
with Queen Latifah and LL Cool J.
But there aren't a whole lot of Christmas --
Oh! “The Preacher's Wife”, with Whitney Houston. Right?
So, like, there aren'ta whole lot of Black-centered cast
Christmas movies or holiday movies.

(54:16):
And so every yearI really like to watch these.
But “Jingle Jangle” is so beautiful.
The cinematography, the music.
The choreography. It's super fun.
So I definitely recommendy'all go and watch it.
I have not seen that yet,so I’ll have to check it out.
Yeah! It's a good one. Absolutely.
So last little mini segmentthat we're doing temporarily

(54:38):
for a little while,is about my book.
Yeah.
So my book “Overcoming Bias Habits” isavailable to order now, go order it.
We just want to shareanother one of my endorsements.
So this endorsement is fromProfessor J. Bradford DeLong.
He's an economics professor.
He's an author of a bestselling bookcalled “Slouching Towards Utopia”.
He's at UC Berkeley.

(55:00):
My book is being publishedby University of California Press,
and he's on their editorial board
and read and recommended my book
to be published after it got peer reviewed.
- Yeah.
And Amber will read his endorsement.- Yeah.
And I'm reading the sentencethat they pulled, but,
this is just one sentencepulled from, like, a page long

(55:21):
beautiful, rave review of Will's book.
So,
He says,“Presents a uniquely actionable framework
for readers who want to confrontbias not with slogans or shame,
but with science-backed toolsthat work.”
It’s lovely!

(55:42):
And again, he did not have
enough to say.
I think.He had,
he had a whole page of beautiful thingsto say about the book
and and how useful and amazing it is. So -
Absolutely order yours today.
(Both chuckling)
“Overcoming Bias Habits”…
- That's right.- … the title of my book.

(56:03):
I'm Dr. William Cox.
And I'm Dr. Amber Nelson.
“Diverse Joy” is produced byEric Roman Beining
with music by Jay Arner.
Follow us @DiverseJoy on mostsocial media platforms for extra content.
If you enjoy the show, help us reachmore people by leaving five star reviews
or by recommending it personally.
Word of mouth accountsfor 70% of how people find new podcasts.

(56:26):
New episodes releasethe first Wednesday of every month.
Watch us on YouTube,listen in any podcasting app
or check us out at DiverseJoy.com,
where you can also find additionaldiversity education resources,
buy some incredible merchandiseor make a donation to support the show.
“Diverse Joy” is the official podcastof Inequity Agents of Change,

(56:49):
a nonprofit devoted toevidence-based approaches
to reduce bias, create inclusion,and promote equity.
All that good JEDI work.
Learn more at BiasHabit.com.
Thank you for joining us.
Now,
(Both) go find your joy!Bye!