April 25, 2024 • 39 mins
We're thrilled to host Clayton Tschudy, the Executive Director of San Diego Canyonlands. Clayton has over twenty years of experience dedicated to restorative landscape design in California. His expertise as a botanist includes native plant ecology of California and drought-tolerant landscaping. A recognized leader in habitat restoration, Clayton has collaborated with cities like San Diego and Chula Vista, along with numerous local entities and private landowners to enhance and preserve environmental heritage of the impacted regions. Today, he joins us to share his journey, insights, and his approach to environmental justice.
We are also excited to announce that the Environmental Leadership Chronicles has been selected as a Top 50 Environmental Podcast by a FeedSpot Panel, AND one of the Top 10 California Environmental Podcasts.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Music.
(00:14):
Leadership Chronicles, a podcast brought to you by the California Association
of Environmental Professionals.
We're thrilled to host Clayton Schutte, the Executive Director of San Diego Canyonlands.
Clayton has over 20 years of experience dedicated to restorative landscape design in California.
His expertise as a botanist includes native ecology of California and drought tolerant landscaping.
(00:37):
As a recognized leader in habitat restoration, Clayton has collaborated with
cities like San Diego and Chula Vista, along with numerous local entities and
private landowners to enhance and preserve environmental heritage of the impacted regions.
Today, he joins us to share his journey, insights, and his approach to environmental
justice. Thanks for listening, and we hope you enjoy.
(00:58):
Music.
Hi, I'm Jessa, and my pronouns are she, her, and today we are with Clayton Schutte,
who is the Executive Director and CEO of San Diego Canyonlands.
Welcome to the podcast, Clayton.
Hi, Jessa. Thanks for having me. So first things first, we start off every podcast.
(01:21):
How are you connected to AEP?
Well, San Diego Canyonlands is a community benefit environmental nonprofit.
So we fit into that realm of environmental consulting and land management,
but with our own non-profit flavor.
What initially triggered you to get into a career in the environmental profession?
(01:47):
Well, I actually started off as a professional musician in my early 20s.
And for me personally, I wanted to have a bigger, more meaningful impact on
the world than I felt I could as a musician.
Not that I don't love music or think that it's important, but I wanted to leave a legacy.
(02:08):
I wanted to leave the world a little better than I came into it.
And that was the beginning of my personal journey.
And then my trajectory after working on environmental biology in college.
My trajectory moved me into non-profit work, and I've kind of had a foot in two worlds,
(02:31):
one foot in sustainable natives-oriented horticulture and one foot in environmental
biology, and also quite a lot of experience working in the non-profit sphere.
So coming Coming into Canyonlands, this was a great combination for me of working
within the community, working within a nonprofit milieu,
(02:55):
and being able to speak directly to people in the community,
which is more like horticulture, and still bring in the environmental expertise,
which is more like the environmental nonprofit part.
And Canyonlands definitely also has that dual identity.
Well, I have to set back a moment. What did you play? As a musician,
(03:16):
what were your instruments?
I was a professional pianist for a little while, but I grew up playing piano and singing in choirs.
Actually, yeah, I went to college for a while before I made a switch.
What a renaissance, man. That's impressive.
(03:37):
Do you ever play music to plants? I feel like I've heard that's a thing,
like classical music to plants.
Create an environment um i
don't know i i kind of feel like plants play music to
me like nature is my church so i
go outside and embed myself and nature sounds to feel peace and connection i
(03:57):
love that i love that and so thinking about so with canyonlands how did you
get involved with that is this an organization that you started or were you hired on?
Like, how did you end up in this leadership position with Canyonlands?
I'm the second executive director of this organization. It was launched by my
(04:18):
very accomplished predecessor, Eric Bowlby.
And the organization emerged from a grassroots movement that was supported by
the Sierra Club, with whom Eric worked at the time, about 20 years ago-ish.
A movement to stop the paving of local canyons that were already protected by
the Multiple Species Conservation Program in San Diego, to stop the paving of
(04:41):
canyons to provide better utility access.
And that campaign was very successful and yielded new policy and activated people
like Tony Atkins in support of the movement.
And when they were done with that initial campaign, a decision was made that.
The Urban Embedded Conserved Lands of San Diego needed a regular ongoing advocate
(05:06):
organization, and that was where Canyonlands was birthed.
And Eric stewarded that fledgling organization for many years.
And when he retired i came on board and i
had been introduced to them i'd brought them a
landscape ecology concept as as
part of their work as a consultant and in
(05:28):
a few years prior so they knew of me and i knew a bunch of people on the board
and so they recruited me wow it's like in your role as a consultant was this
some of the focus of your work and was that important to candy lands as part
of your hire like with your experience in having to focus on this with your community working?
I have done a ton of community work.
(05:50):
I wouldn't say that DEI as a specific focus had been part of my prior work experiences,
but I have a long history of political activism in my personal life,
of community work in my personal life.
And when you work in nonprofits, as I did before coming here,
you learn to work with communities.
(06:13):
So, you know, again, I think...
When you start with DEI as a concept and you build out from the concept,
one thing you learn is that you don't just apply a policy here or a technique there.
It's really about building relationships.
And that's the work of community work to begin with.
(06:34):
So I don't think my answer is a yes to was DEI a focus of my work prior.
But community work definitely was. And that ends up being the core of DEI in practice.
Yeah I agree with that and I think you
know it's it's systemic work and just knowing
(06:55):
some of the initiatives you've led so I guess
when you were brought into this role and when you started at Canyonlands how
did you and maybe this is even a question like was it a focus on diversity equity
and inclusion or is this just this is how we serve the community best this is
how we serve of our volunteers. This is how we serve the environment.
(07:17):
And how are you approaching it as really like part of the fabric of Canyonlands
and your approach to your work?
Well, Canyonlands has always been embedded within the extremely diverse local
community of City Heights within San Diego.
Our largest project prior to my coming on board was a million dollar trail project
(07:41):
that traversed the four urban embedded canyons of the City Heights community
called the City Heights Loop Trail.
And my predecessor worked very hard to embed the community here and start building
out networks here, partnering with organizations such as the Cesar Chavez Service Club,
(08:01):
which operates through local high schools and middle schools here, as an example.
So we've long been community embedded. And when I came in, what I noticed is
that there was still work to be done on several levels.
And I did set about starting to make those changes almost right away.
(08:22):
We were an all-white, all-from-outside-the-neighborhood team,
even though our office was based in City Heights.
We were a very small team. It was a small organization. You know,
it's hard to have DEI goals when you only have five people.
But we have grown dramatically since that time. We're now just under 40 employees.
(08:43):
We are about 50 to 60% BIPOC, about 30 to 40% LGBTQ+. I think we have an equal
number of men and women on staff.
So we kind of hit those metric targets. But I think most importantly,
we are recruiting, recruiting,
recruiting from within the local community and building relationships as we
(09:06):
go and building trust with the local community as we go.
So I noticed that we needed to do more work about representation within our team.
But I also noticed that a couple other kind of key strategic needs were not met.
And I think that these are problems for many environmental organizations.
(09:29):
The first was volunteerism is fraught with privilege issues.
You know, who has time to volunteer? Is volunteerism and volunteer stewardship,
is that the highest expression of giving back in the community?
(09:49):
Or is it appropriate to pay people to work in this space and tell the community
that being paid for it is showing it value?
So, you know, these kinds of questions are things that we started grappling with.
And what emerged and was made possible also through our growth was a workforce
(10:09):
development process where we recruited into the team, the growing team from the local community.
We started engaging more strategically and in depth and with leaders from the
community, our relationships within that community.
And we started kind of, we still definitely do a lot of volunteer work,
(10:34):
but we now have a broader base of understanding about how local communities
can engage with their nearby nature,
what it means for different kinds of communities to have a relationship with
nature, what's most important to them.
And, you know, we're in this very complex space. We are essentially a regional land manager.
(10:58):
Our mandate gives us kind of a regional mission.
But we're a private organization and we're not a conservancy. We don't own land.
So all of our work is partnership work with the city of San Diego,
the county of San Diego, local communities in different ways.
So we try to establish a permanent presence in certain places as well as do
(11:19):
large environmental environmental restoration projects, million to $5 million projects, we do those.
But we also have a regular presence in local communities and learn from those
communities what they want out of those spaces for themselves.
And then we engage in that complex interchange of also representing the needs of the resource.
(11:41):
So how do we blend those things together to create win-wins,
to make sure that the two aren't working in opposition,
and especially to get past the frequent misconception and prejudice that social
justice and environmental care are somehow separate and mutually exclusive.
(12:04):
I don't think it's simply enough to say that nature access for underprivileged
neighborhoods is the way of giving them a relationship. That's insufficient.
You have to structure and create a strategic pathway into those spaces.
And one of those strategic pathways is to give people work.
(12:26):
If they're working there, they value it. You give them lots of time to build a relationship.
Relationship that's the same privilege that anyone who has
an environmental degree and who goes into this work experiences
you start out by working in
the field and gaining local expertise and becoming a local
naturalist expert right you build your
(12:47):
expertise and your job affords you that privilege well for people who don't
have the ability to get an environmental degree that becomes a barrier to their
entry into those kinds of relationships so we can help to create those relationships
by providing entry-level work without a degree requirement for people from these communities,
(13:08):
often working in these canyons that are embedded in their communities so they
have a special relationship to it and they feel like they're giving back,
and also giving them experience outside of the local neighborhood.
So we've just expanded this out of relationships and we really have to listen
to what people need and build from that and look for those win-wins.
(13:31):
I think, thank you for that overview. That's so broad and encompassing.
And some of this, it's one of those things that sounds so obvious, but it's not.
And it needs to be said. And I think, you know, just when you say like you walk
into the room and it's like, this is not representative of the community that
we are working in and representing.
And I'm hearing that more and more in the environmental industry,
(13:52):
which is great, where people are like acknowledging and saying that part out
loud is like, Like, we want people who are doing this side of the work,
the environmental restoration or planning,
like, you know, urban planning for communities.
It's like, you need to have representation. I know that's part of,
like, stakeholder engagement, but it's also, like, that's the part is, like, listening.
(14:13):
But instead of telling people, oh, this is what we think you need and what we think you want.
It's like listening going out doing that work understanding and then getting
involved with the community from the onset and like getting that getting them
on board with the plan instead of just like you know forcing it upon them and
having the community members be part of it and I think something that you said.
(14:35):
That's really stuck with me. And from the first time I heard you speak about
this was about the access to education and unpaid volunteers.
That's such a privilege that so many people take for granted.
And so when people in this industry are saying, we don't have enough providers,
(14:55):
there's a lack of people coming up in the field, there's a lack of service,
and then the barriers to get that education.
And so you coming from a position of acknowledging that and removing the barriers,
I think is so admirable and something that I've personally taken away.
And I've shared that with other people. It's like, not all of these jobs require
higher education and advanced training.
(15:18):
Just because that's the way it's been done or the way people think it needs
to be done, things can change.
And access to technology even is like, there's so much more access to resources
and information than there was 10,
20 years ago that like we can teach and train people like
much more easily and some of this too it really
(15:40):
doesn't need advanced training and so i think like recognizing acknowledge
what acknowledging what positions people are
hiring for recruiting for whether or not it truly requires that advanced degree
is a great first step and other organizations being able to make it more accessible
for other candidates who don't have the traditional four-year degree to get a foot in the door.
(16:04):
And then also paid internships. I mean, at bare minimum, it's like... Yeah.
You know, and volunteers. And that's actually something that I'm kind of just reflecting on now.
What you just shared, because I have a lot of opinions and thoughts.
But, you know, you're a nonprofit organization.
And so relying on volunteers, like, how do you find the funding?
(16:28):
Like, or how did you make that switch of like, we need to pay people to create
jobs to do work that we've relied upon, maybe more heavily weighted towards volunteers?
Like, how did you get the financial position to be able to do that?
That's a great question.
And let's not lose lose track of that conversation about
educational barriers and the way
(16:49):
in which the environmental industry environmental
restoration industry or management is really
very academically oriented and how we kind
of graft academic barriers onto this industry
because i think that's a key factor for
how we can overcome dei barriers for
(17:09):
environmental management but we can come back to
that you know there's a
problem with being a small organization and in
building capacity and having sustainability and resiliency
in your your back-end planning capacity and
and this is true for all non-profits no matter what field you're
(17:30):
in you have to earn a certain amount of money and get to a certain size and
you start to have stability and you start to have talent that remains with you
for a period of time so that you can organizationally build and go through strategic
development that's planned and not just,
as I call it, chasing the money.
Like, oh, we got to get this grant so we can do this, you know?
(17:53):
And even within the environmental management industry broadly, there is...
An acceptance of seasonal work where you get a large contract,
a large mitigation contract, or you get a large grant and you go out and you
do work for a while on that project until it fades and you hire up and then you lay off.
(18:19):
And so you have a whole core, I don't know how many tens of thousands of biologists
are out there whose entire career is based on project work that ebbs and flows
and requires some travel around.
And, you know, I think of it as kind of generating a, it's like a generation
of lone wolves, like a bunch of people who are comfortable being outside by
(18:41):
themselves or with a construction crew, you know, you know what I mean?
But that kind of instability in the industry also reflects in the nonprofit
world. And that is not equitable.
You know, when you're living on the edge, you can't afford to do that.
So if the barrier to entry into the field is a four-year environmental degree,
(19:07):
and you haven't had the ability, you don't have the resources to achieve that,
but you want entry into this world.
Even if you get an entry-level job, if it's seasonal and you drop off,
there's very little guarantee that you can get another job in the same field
without that educational background.
So these barriers kind of compound. The seasonal work and the educational requirements
(19:33):
compound to make these very exclusive positions.
And then you throw into that the need for people to move move around and not
have local family stability.
You're really cutting out access to this world pretty dramatically.
I remember when I made a switch from environmental biology directly into nonprofit
(19:58):
work, I had to take a 50% pay cut to have stability and start rebuilding a career locally in San Diego.
And I've recovered that personally. That is not something everyone can do.
I was lucky that I was in a position to do that at that time.
You know? So I think these things compound and you have to think about creative ways to overcome it.
(20:26):
Now, as an organization, how do we grow and fund and create stable positions?
We still struggle with that.
One of the biggest seasonal things for us is nesting season.
Most of the conserved lands within the MSCP in San Diego, at least coastally,
and so it's city of San Diego, are oriented around the California gnatcatcher.
(20:51):
And during California gnatcatcher breeding season, because it's a threatened
species, there's a presence-no-presence block, just a blanket that drops down
over certain areas where you can't work there, you can't have impacts.
And that can dramatically reduce the amount of available work for my team.
(21:11):
So if I'm trying to maintain a permanent team, those kinds of seasonal dynamics
that are just You know, they're baked in.
You just have to find a way to creatively deal with it.
So how do we do that? And how do we have enough money to maintain a permanent team at all?
For us, the key has been multiple large projects running simultaneously,
(21:32):
which then, so I'm, and by that, I mean, excuse me, by that,
I mean, 500,000 to three to $5 million projects running simultaneously.
For a small nonprofit to do that, there's definitely an administrative burden
there and it's all creative solutions all the time.
It's quite challenging.
(21:54):
But we're really committed to having a core permanent team who we've recruited
from local communities.
We've trained on the ground. They've built their expertise with us.
We're building a reputation locally with other land managers and conservancy
partners as a great team to hire for land management work.
(22:17):
And we do that through a lot of effort because it's intentional.
Intentional we're intentionally keeping them long term
we're intentionally having when we
still have to hire seasonal help but we
we don't want that to be our whole model because that it is just not equitable
so lots of large grants as much as we can and you know as we grow as an organization
(22:42):
we're also looking for corporate partners and few for service you as much contract
work with land manager partners as possible,
Yeah, I think that seasonality impact, hearing you say that too,
it's one of those things where I feel like, well, this is just the way it is.
But that doesn't mean it's the way it has to be.
(23:06):
And I think too, listening to you say that, and I think with the seasonal work
too, it's like you said, it's either going to ebb and flow depending on where
you're at, the locality, or you're going to have to chase it.
And depending on your situation, maybe...
Maybe a possibility, but other times it's not. And so, and at what cost and,
(23:27):
you know, the seasons are the season.
So if you're in San Diego, it's like the spike is like, it's the same season for everybody.
And so the work is up. And when you're, you know, based on like yourself as
labor and hourly work, like there's only so much you can do.
It's not like you can ramp up and then, you know, just coast.
But I think that's a really important thing to think about is how you could
(23:49):
make that more equitable.
And something I thought about too, as you're saying this, it's like health insurance and benefits.
And if you have a spouse or partner, maybe you could lie on them,
but there's all these other factors to consider as part of that.
So it's just interesting as a point you said of the industry and that you You need a degree,
(24:11):
quote, quote, need a degree, and then have to go in to not even be guaranteed
full-time work as a result of that.
And so I know you wanted to come back to that part, I believe, the education.
And so maybe if you could elaborate a little bit on your thoughts about the
education requirement to do some of the work and how your lens to that seeming
(24:35):
requirement and how you're reframing,
I guess, the approach to that. Yeah.
Well, you know, you can get an environmental degree from numerous colleges across
the country in different places where the environment looks very different from
San Diego and then move here and you've checked that box.
(24:56):
And then you could previously you could get a job at Canyonlands digging holes
and planting plants and getting field experience where the real magic was happening,
which was you're learning about the local ecosystem and the biodiversity of the region.
(25:17):
That's the magic. That's the field training that every person who comes in with
an environmental degree still needs to do.
Well, you don't need an environmental degree to get that expertise.
You need time in the field. So if the work is primarily entry-level work with
(25:38):
the benefit of getting hands-on experience with the resource and building expertise with the resource,
that does not require an environmental degree
the challenge for
us and speaking about seasonality by
the way one of the challenges for keeping a team across the the calendar going
(25:59):
is what do you do in the summer months when things really boil down and stop
being very effective we're starting to transition to thinking of that as a training
period so increasingly we think of ourselves
as an environmental workforce development company,
as well as land managers.
(26:19):
And if we can reconfigure summer to be training and we can find money that's
specifically geared towards training instead of getting project work done,
then that quote-unquote downtime is actually an ideal time to train people on the resource.
I mean, when do you do nesting bird surveys? you do
(26:40):
it during the nesting season right you want to get that
coveted california gnat catcher permit you gotta go out with a certified biologist
and you gotta see gnat catchers in action right so if if you if you creatively
rethink things and you think about it as workforce development and not just project completion,
(27:03):
then new opportunities emerge.
And if you don't hire people on the basis of they're having a degree first,
which you don't need to for this kind of work, you can still give them that in-depth training.
That constraint doesn't entirely evaporate, though.
(27:24):
If people have worked for Canulans for two to three years and they're not coming
out the other side with a degree, they're not going to be able to successfully
move into the for-profit world where they can build a career and make more money.
And that has to be part of our goal as a workforce development organization.
It's not to have them work for us forever. And prevailing wage,
(27:45):
yes, that's our starting point.
We do that. And yes, we provide health insurance, a generous health insurance
package, because those are critical components for personal and family stability.
And that has to be the basis of any equitable job strategy.
So we do those things, but they're not going to work for us forever at that
(28:06):
rate. They're going to have to build a career.
So now what we're thinking about is not just summertime training,
but now we're thinking about what's the pipeline?
What do we have to provide people to get them into professional development certifications,
a two-year trade degree, and for the people who are really interested,
help them move into a four-year degree program so that they can come out of
(28:30):
having worked with us, taking the advantage to build themselves professionally
and actually have a career afterwards.
Because I can get rid of that constraint in my hiring practices,
but that doesn't mean everybody else is going to do that too.
So we do the work, we try to lead by example, but we also have to recognize
(28:52):
the world as it is, and we have to prepare our people to move on to something else.
That training component is still very much under development for us.
It's tricky. It's difficult.
You're partnering with lots of organizations trying to make that happen.
If you look at the conservation core model, it's geared towards people who haven't
(29:15):
even finished high school.
They'll give people work in the resource, so they're getting experience and
building a relationship with it, and that's great.
But they get their GED, and then they move on.
That's not good enough for me. I want to reform the whole industry.
I want Canyonlands to be a pipeline, bringing diversity, socioeconomic diversity
(29:36):
across the board into the industry.
That means we have to complete a pipeline. We're still working on that.
And yeah, that actually was my question, which you just answered was,
is the goal for people to move on and considering yourself as a workforce development agency.
And have you guys considered, oh, I'm sure you have, but I guess maybe what
(29:58):
are your thoughts on something like Canyonlands certification or saying that
you've worked for Canyonlands for two years,
like someone could take that to, you know, private employer or someone else
and be like, these are the things that this individual would have done like
under the Canyonlands program.
Yeah. So, you know, we actually have several programs within Canyonlands that
(30:19):
are all operating in parallel, right?
We have our ECO initiative, the Environmental Careers Opportunities Initiative
that targets people who've fallen out of the workforce because they,
you know, they become homeless or have mental health challenges or are justice involved,
that target, you know, people who are in the greatest need for immediate training
(30:42):
and help reentering the workforce.
But we also hire from local communities people who are meant to be with us long-term
and who want the experience and the ability to really build as naturalists and
build that kind of skill set.
So we bring in a lot of people in a lot of different ways.
(31:05):
We are working on a training program that might become like a canyoning certification.
But there are lots of certifications all over the place.
And we already are developing a reputation with partners like AEP and Recon
and others that people who've worked with us might be ideal people to bring
(31:27):
in for certain kinds of work.
But I think we have to do more than just create a certification or have a reputation.
We actually have to provide employment services.
We have to help people conceive of and strategize their own career paths.
And for those who stay with us for several years, that needs to become much
(31:49):
more structured and much more intensive than we're doing now.
People are learning amazing things in the field hands-on from their work.
But we have to become more of an employment agency, as you described it, which is weird.
We didn't think that we would be that, right? But if you're doing workforce
development, that's a necessary component of the work.
(32:12):
I love this. This is very inspirational.
I mean, I think I mentioned earlier, I was already inspired by some of the things
that you said you're already doing, but just the way you're thinking about this and how broad
and to create real change, not just patching a few leaks, but rebuilding the
ship and what it could be.
(32:34):
And I love this approach because I think listening to you talk,
I'm really inspired by people who don't do things the way they've always been
done because that's the way it's been done.
And it's like, well, we know it's a problem, but what can we do?
It's like, well, well, this is what we can do.
And oh, by the way, let's kind of shift our mindset over training people up
(32:55):
and giving them new skills.
And this helps us with some of our challenges, but also adds value back to the
community and the industry and society, the environment, all the things.
So it's just, I really appreciate you sharing this because it's just, it's very,
I think it's a very important message for others to hear who are in a position
to drive change and also people who want to get in the industry and might feel
(33:17):
that there's barriers years and that it's,
you know, it can't happen that there are opportunities out there with organizations
like yours that are creating pathways.
You know, I think that one thing that might be good for your,
your audience to really understand is that nonprofits actually,
they don't just fill gaps.
(33:37):
Sometimes they create whole strategies that are very difficult for the for-profit world to engage.
And I think, you know, I describe myself as a cousin of AEP,
you know, Canyonlands is a cousin of AEP.
Another way to think of this is that we're
part of an ecosystem where we're lower
on the food chain and we can help provide
(33:59):
support or pillars or strategic growth for the for-profit world by creating
a conduit for bringing people in other than the initial check for your degree.
(34:20):
And so if Canyonlands can become a pipeline for local for-profit companies to
bring in this diversity and to connect with local communities,
then I think we're doing a real service to the entire thing.
And, you know, everything I've been talking about is really,
and, you know, you described it as, you know, really thinking outside the box
(34:42):
and coming up with creative ideas.
It's really being driven by the necessity to integrate different things in order
to achieve success with this strategy.
It's an integrated process.
And you can think of it as kind of the front end of the process.
We're connected to the community. We recruit from the community.
(35:03):
We train that community. We create a pipeline, a training pipeline.
We provide, you know, eventually we'll be providing employment services over
many years to some people.
The back end of that ecosystem, the back end of it is you guys.
You need to accept my people. you need you need to partner with non-profits
(35:26):
that are doing this important community work,
so that you can be part of the solution because you're
not going to be able to do this community work the way that we can
it's part of our mandate and it's really not part of your business model in
the same way you can do more i'm sure like any for-profit company can but we
are uniquely situated to do this work so for-profit companies partnering with
(35:51):
non-profits that have this kind
of focus can really be a powerful partnership.
I love that. Well, we are at wrapping up. So I want to get into our wrap.
Oh my gosh, I'm so late over my words today. Jeez, wrap up rapid five.
Okay. Okay. So first question, what is your favorite daily habit?
(36:13):
Getting my day started early where I have focus time and no one calling me and no meeting scheduled.
Amen. Okay. What are three things you would bring to a deserted island?
A really good field guide, so I know what was edible. A Swiss Army knife.
(36:37):
And some really good shoes. Very practical. I love it. You'll be off that island in no time.
If you wanted to be. If I wanted to be. What is your favorite environmental policy?
You know, this is an icebreaker question that we ask at meetings sometimes.
And it really stumps people, and it always kind of stumps me.
(36:59):
I mean, I could say the Endangered Species Act, but I guess that.
Yeah, because it's the basis for the way that we value the natural world.
It's the connecting sinew between policy in a capitalistic society and valuing
(37:22):
the natural world, which doesn't have its value embedded in human use.
And i'm a very biocentric person
so so that i like that philosophical so
what is your favorite flora or fauna so many well let me name a recent favorite
(37:46):
let's see spotted tohi i think is my favorite local bird lately.
They're very gregarious and showy. I like them. And let's see, how about a plant?
Chorothrogeny phylogenophilia. Is there a... California cudweed.
(38:08):
And I like it because it grows in lots of places and makes everything smell nice.
Oh, I love that. Okay. And then finish this thought. Wouldn't it be cool if...
Wouldn't it be cool if we could go back and redesign our cities to be fully
integrated with natural resources and biodiversity?
(38:31):
And we had all the city amenities, but we lived in a green paradise.
Wouldn't it be cool if we didn't have to choose between being in a paradise
and having human culture?
Thank you so much, Blaine. I appreciate it. Jazza, it's really been a pleasure.
I'd like to get to know you better sometime too. You spent a lot of time asking me about me.
(38:55):
Music.
Thanks for listening. If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe to be updated
when new episodes are released and leave us a review to let us know what you think.
It also really helps us to share the podcast with others who may enjoy learning
about the environmental industry.
If you want to submit a shout out or any feedback, please send an email or voice
(39:15):
memo to podcast at califaep.org.
The email again is podcast with an S, podcast at C-A-L-I-F-A-E-P.
Music.
Music.
(00:14):
Leadership Chronicles, a podcast brought to you by the California Association
of Environmental Professionals.
We're thrilled to host Clayton Schutte, the Executive Director of San Diego Canyonlands.
Clayton has over 20 years of experience dedicated to restorative landscape design in California.
His expertise as a botanist includes native ecology of California and drought tolerant landscaping.
(00:37):
As a recognized leader in habitat restoration, Clayton has collaborated with
cities like San Diego and Chula Vista, along with numerous local entities and
private landowners to enhance and preserve environmental heritage of the impacted regions.
Today, he joins us to share his journey, insights, and his approach to environmental
justice. Thanks for listening, and we hope you enjoy.
(00:58):
Music.
Hi, I'm Jessa, and my pronouns are she, her, and today we are with Clayton Schutte,
who is the Executive Director and CEO of San Diego Canyonlands.
Welcome to the podcast, Clayton.
Hi, Jessa. Thanks for having me. So first things first, we start off every podcast.
(01:21):
How are you connected to AEP?
Well, San Diego Canyonlands is a community benefit environmental nonprofit.
So we fit into that realm of environmental consulting and land management,
but with our own non-profit flavor.
What initially triggered you to get into a career in the environmental profession?
(01:47):
Well, I actually started off as a professional musician in my early 20s.
And for me personally, I wanted to have a bigger, more meaningful impact on
the world than I felt I could as a musician.
Not that I don't love music or think that it's important, but I wanted to leave a legacy.
(02:08):
I wanted to leave the world a little better than I came into it.
And that was the beginning of my personal journey.
And then my trajectory after working on environmental biology in college.
My trajectory moved me into non-profit work, and I've kind of had a foot in two worlds,
(02:31):
one foot in sustainable natives-oriented horticulture and one foot in environmental
biology, and also quite a lot of experience working in the non-profit sphere.
So coming Coming into Canyonlands, this was a great combination for me of working
within the community, working within a nonprofit milieu,
(02:55):
and being able to speak directly to people in the community,
which is more like horticulture, and still bring in the environmental expertise,
which is more like the environmental nonprofit part.
And Canyonlands definitely also has that dual identity.
Well, I have to set back a moment. What did you play? As a musician,
(03:16):
what were your instruments?
I was a professional pianist for a little while, but I grew up playing piano and singing in choirs.
Actually, yeah, I went to college for a while before I made a switch.
What a renaissance, man. That's impressive.
(03:37):
Do you ever play music to plants? I feel like I've heard that's a thing,
like classical music to plants.
Create an environment um i
don't know i i kind of feel like plants play music to
me like nature is my church so i
go outside and embed myself and nature sounds to feel peace and connection i
(03:57):
love that i love that and so thinking about so with canyonlands how did you
get involved with that is this an organization that you started or were you hired on?
Like, how did you end up in this leadership position with Canyonlands?
I'm the second executive director of this organization. It was launched by my
(04:18):
very accomplished predecessor, Eric Bowlby.
And the organization emerged from a grassroots movement that was supported by
the Sierra Club, with whom Eric worked at the time, about 20 years ago-ish.
A movement to stop the paving of local canyons that were already protected by
the Multiple Species Conservation Program in San Diego, to stop the paving of
(04:41):
canyons to provide better utility access.
And that campaign was very successful and yielded new policy and activated people
like Tony Atkins in support of the movement.
And when they were done with that initial campaign, a decision was made that.
The Urban Embedded Conserved Lands of San Diego needed a regular ongoing advocate
(05:06):
organization, and that was where Canyonlands was birthed.
And Eric stewarded that fledgling organization for many years.
And when he retired i came on board and i
had been introduced to them i'd brought them a
landscape ecology concept as as
part of their work as a consultant and in
(05:28):
a few years prior so they knew of me and i knew a bunch of people on the board
and so they recruited me wow it's like in your role as a consultant was this
some of the focus of your work and was that important to candy lands as part
of your hire like with your experience in having to focus on this with your community working?
I have done a ton of community work.
(05:50):
I wouldn't say that DEI as a specific focus had been part of my prior work experiences,
but I have a long history of political activism in my personal life,
of community work in my personal life.
And when you work in nonprofits, as I did before coming here,
you learn to work with communities.
(06:13):
So, you know, again, I think...
When you start with DEI as a concept and you build out from the concept,
one thing you learn is that you don't just apply a policy here or a technique there.
It's really about building relationships.
And that's the work of community work to begin with.
(06:34):
So I don't think my answer is a yes to was DEI a focus of my work prior.
But community work definitely was. And that ends up being the core of DEI in practice.
Yeah I agree with that and I think you
know it's it's systemic work and just knowing
(06:55):
some of the initiatives you've led so I guess
when you were brought into this role and when you started at Canyonlands how
did you and maybe this is even a question like was it a focus on diversity equity
and inclusion or is this just this is how we serve the community best this is
how we serve of our volunteers. This is how we serve the environment.
(07:17):
And how are you approaching it as really like part of the fabric of Canyonlands
and your approach to your work?
Well, Canyonlands has always been embedded within the extremely diverse local
community of City Heights within San Diego.
Our largest project prior to my coming on board was a million dollar trail project
(07:41):
that traversed the four urban embedded canyons of the City Heights community
called the City Heights Loop Trail.
And my predecessor worked very hard to embed the community here and start building
out networks here, partnering with organizations such as the Cesar Chavez Service Club,
(08:01):
which operates through local high schools and middle schools here, as an example.
So we've long been community embedded. And when I came in, what I noticed is
that there was still work to be done on several levels.
And I did set about starting to make those changes almost right away.
(08:22):
We were an all-white, all-from-outside-the-neighborhood team,
even though our office was based in City Heights.
We were a very small team. It was a small organization. You know,
it's hard to have DEI goals when you only have five people.
But we have grown dramatically since that time. We're now just under 40 employees.
(08:43):
We are about 50 to 60% BIPOC, about 30 to 40% LGBTQ+. I think we have an equal
number of men and women on staff.
So we kind of hit those metric targets. But I think most importantly,
we are recruiting, recruiting,
recruiting from within the local community and building relationships as we
(09:06):
go and building trust with the local community as we go.
So I noticed that we needed to do more work about representation within our team.
But I also noticed that a couple other kind of key strategic needs were not met.
And I think that these are problems for many environmental organizations.
(09:29):
The first was volunteerism is fraught with privilege issues.
You know, who has time to volunteer? Is volunteerism and volunteer stewardship,
is that the highest expression of giving back in the community?
(09:49):
Or is it appropriate to pay people to work in this space and tell the community
that being paid for it is showing it value?
So, you know, these kinds of questions are things that we started grappling with.
And what emerged and was made possible also through our growth was a workforce
(10:09):
development process where we recruited into the team, the growing team from the local community.
We started engaging more strategically and in depth and with leaders from the
community, our relationships within that community.
And we started kind of, we still definitely do a lot of volunteer work,
(10:34):
but we now have a broader base of understanding about how local communities
can engage with their nearby nature,
what it means for different kinds of communities to have a relationship with
nature, what's most important to them.
And, you know, we're in this very complex space. We are essentially a regional land manager.
(10:58):
Our mandate gives us kind of a regional mission.
But we're a private organization and we're not a conservancy. We don't own land.
So all of our work is partnership work with the city of San Diego,
the county of San Diego, local communities in different ways.
So we try to establish a permanent presence in certain places as well as do
(11:19):
large environmental environmental restoration projects, million to $5 million projects, we do those.
But we also have a regular presence in local communities and learn from those
communities what they want out of those spaces for themselves.
And then we engage in that complex interchange of also representing the needs of the resource.
(11:41):
So how do we blend those things together to create win-wins,
to make sure that the two aren't working in opposition,
and especially to get past the frequent misconception and prejudice that social
justice and environmental care are somehow separate and mutually exclusive.
(12:04):
I don't think it's simply enough to say that nature access for underprivileged
neighborhoods is the way of giving them a relationship. That's insufficient.
You have to structure and create a strategic pathway into those spaces.
And one of those strategic pathways is to give people work.
(12:26):
If they're working there, they value it. You give them lots of time to build a relationship.
Relationship that's the same privilege that anyone who has
an environmental degree and who goes into this work experiences
you start out by working in
the field and gaining local expertise and becoming a local
naturalist expert right you build your
(12:47):
expertise and your job affords you that privilege well for people who don't
have the ability to get an environmental degree that becomes a barrier to their
entry into those kinds of relationships so we can help to create those relationships
by providing entry-level work without a degree requirement for people from these communities,
(13:08):
often working in these canyons that are embedded in their communities so they
have a special relationship to it and they feel like they're giving back,
and also giving them experience outside of the local neighborhood.
So we've just expanded this out of relationships and we really have to listen
to what people need and build from that and look for those win-wins.
(13:31):
I think, thank you for that overview. That's so broad and encompassing.
And some of this, it's one of those things that sounds so obvious, but it's not.
And it needs to be said. And I think, you know, just when you say like you walk
into the room and it's like, this is not representative of the community that
we are working in and representing.
And I'm hearing that more and more in the environmental industry,
(13:52):
which is great, where people are like acknowledging and saying that part out
loud is like, Like, we want people who are doing this side of the work,
the environmental restoration or planning,
like, you know, urban planning for communities.
It's like, you need to have representation. I know that's part of,
like, stakeholder engagement, but it's also, like, that's the part is, like, listening.
(14:13):
But instead of telling people, oh, this is what we think you need and what we think you want.
It's like listening going out doing that work understanding and then getting
involved with the community from the onset and like getting that getting them
on board with the plan instead of just like you know forcing it upon them and
having the community members be part of it and I think something that you said.
(14:35):
That's really stuck with me. And from the first time I heard you speak about
this was about the access to education and unpaid volunteers.
That's such a privilege that so many people take for granted.
And so when people in this industry are saying, we don't have enough providers,
(14:55):
there's a lack of people coming up in the field, there's a lack of service,
and then the barriers to get that education.
And so you coming from a position of acknowledging that and removing the barriers,
I think is so admirable and something that I've personally taken away.
And I've shared that with other people. It's like, not all of these jobs require
higher education and advanced training.
(15:18):
Just because that's the way it's been done or the way people think it needs
to be done, things can change.
And access to technology even is like, there's so much more access to resources
and information than there was 10,
20 years ago that like we can teach and train people like
much more easily and some of this too it really
(15:40):
doesn't need advanced training and so i think like recognizing acknowledge
what acknowledging what positions people are
hiring for recruiting for whether or not it truly requires that advanced degree
is a great first step and other organizations being able to make it more accessible
for other candidates who don't have the traditional four-year degree to get a foot in the door.
(16:04):
And then also paid internships. I mean, at bare minimum, it's like... Yeah.
You know, and volunteers. And that's actually something that I'm kind of just reflecting on now.
What you just shared, because I have a lot of opinions and thoughts.
But, you know, you're a nonprofit organization.
And so relying on volunteers, like, how do you find the funding?
(16:28):
Like, or how did you make that switch of like, we need to pay people to create
jobs to do work that we've relied upon, maybe more heavily weighted towards volunteers?
Like, how did you get the financial position to be able to do that?
That's a great question.
And let's not lose lose track of that conversation about
educational barriers and the way
(16:49):
in which the environmental industry environmental
restoration industry or management is really
very academically oriented and how we kind
of graft academic barriers onto this industry
because i think that's a key factor for
how we can overcome dei barriers for
(17:09):
environmental management but we can come back to
that you know there's a
problem with being a small organization and in
building capacity and having sustainability and resiliency
in your your back-end planning capacity and
and this is true for all non-profits no matter what field you're
(17:30):
in you have to earn a certain amount of money and get to a certain size and
you start to have stability and you start to have talent that remains with you
for a period of time so that you can organizationally build and go through strategic
development that's planned and not just,
as I call it, chasing the money.
Like, oh, we got to get this grant so we can do this, you know?
(17:53):
And even within the environmental management industry broadly, there is...
An acceptance of seasonal work where you get a large contract,
a large mitigation contract, or you get a large grant and you go out and you
do work for a while on that project until it fades and you hire up and then you lay off.
(18:19):
And so you have a whole core, I don't know how many tens of thousands of biologists
are out there whose entire career is based on project work that ebbs and flows
and requires some travel around.
And, you know, I think of it as kind of generating a, it's like a generation
of lone wolves, like a bunch of people who are comfortable being outside by
(18:41):
themselves or with a construction crew, you know, you know what I mean?
But that kind of instability in the industry also reflects in the nonprofit
world. And that is not equitable.
You know, when you're living on the edge, you can't afford to do that.
So if the barrier to entry into the field is a four-year environmental degree,
(19:07):
and you haven't had the ability, you don't have the resources to achieve that,
but you want entry into this world.
Even if you get an entry-level job, if it's seasonal and you drop off,
there's very little guarantee that you can get another job in the same field
without that educational background.
So these barriers kind of compound. The seasonal work and the educational requirements
(19:33):
compound to make these very exclusive positions.
And then you throw into that the need for people to move move around and not
have local family stability.
You're really cutting out access to this world pretty dramatically.
I remember when I made a switch from environmental biology directly into nonprofit
(19:58):
work, I had to take a 50% pay cut to have stability and start rebuilding a career locally in San Diego.
And I've recovered that personally. That is not something everyone can do.
I was lucky that I was in a position to do that at that time.
You know? So I think these things compound and you have to think about creative ways to overcome it.
(20:26):
Now, as an organization, how do we grow and fund and create stable positions?
We still struggle with that.
One of the biggest seasonal things for us is nesting season.
Most of the conserved lands within the MSCP in San Diego, at least coastally,
and so it's city of San Diego, are oriented around the California gnatcatcher.
(20:51):
And during California gnatcatcher breeding season, because it's a threatened
species, there's a presence-no-presence block, just a blanket that drops down
over certain areas where you can't work there, you can't have impacts.
And that can dramatically reduce the amount of available work for my team.
(21:11):
So if I'm trying to maintain a permanent team, those kinds of seasonal dynamics
that are just You know, they're baked in.
You just have to find a way to creatively deal with it.
So how do we do that? And how do we have enough money to maintain a permanent team at all?
For us, the key has been multiple large projects running simultaneously,
(21:32):
which then, so I'm, and by that, I mean, excuse me, by that,
I mean, 500,000 to three to $5 million projects running simultaneously.
For a small nonprofit to do that, there's definitely an administrative burden
there and it's all creative solutions all the time.
It's quite challenging.
(21:54):
But we're really committed to having a core permanent team who we've recruited
from local communities.
We've trained on the ground. They've built their expertise with us.
We're building a reputation locally with other land managers and conservancy
partners as a great team to hire for land management work.
(22:17):
And we do that through a lot of effort because it's intentional.
Intentional we're intentionally keeping them long term
we're intentionally having when we
still have to hire seasonal help but we
we don't want that to be our whole model because that it is just not equitable
so lots of large grants as much as we can and you know as we grow as an organization
(22:42):
we're also looking for corporate partners and few for service you as much contract
work with land manager partners as possible,
Yeah, I think that seasonality impact, hearing you say that too,
it's one of those things where I feel like, well, this is just the way it is.
But that doesn't mean it's the way it has to be.
(23:06):
And I think too, listening to you say that, and I think with the seasonal work
too, it's like you said, it's either going to ebb and flow depending on where
you're at, the locality, or you're going to have to chase it.
And depending on your situation, maybe...
Maybe a possibility, but other times it's not. And so, and at what cost and,
(23:27):
you know, the seasons are the season.
So if you're in San Diego, it's like the spike is like, it's the same season for everybody.
And so the work is up. And when you're, you know, based on like yourself as
labor and hourly work, like there's only so much you can do.
It's not like you can ramp up and then, you know, just coast.
But I think that's a really important thing to think about is how you could
(23:49):
make that more equitable.
And something I thought about too, as you're saying this, it's like health insurance and benefits.
And if you have a spouse or partner, maybe you could lie on them,
but there's all these other factors to consider as part of that.
So it's just interesting as a point you said of the industry and that you You need a degree,
(24:11):
quote, quote, need a degree, and then have to go in to not even be guaranteed
full-time work as a result of that.
And so I know you wanted to come back to that part, I believe, the education.
And so maybe if you could elaborate a little bit on your thoughts about the
education requirement to do some of the work and how your lens to that seeming
(24:35):
requirement and how you're reframing,
I guess, the approach to that. Yeah.
Well, you know, you can get an environmental degree from numerous colleges across
the country in different places where the environment looks very different from
San Diego and then move here and you've checked that box.
(24:56):
And then you could previously you could get a job at Canyonlands digging holes
and planting plants and getting field experience where the real magic was happening,
which was you're learning about the local ecosystem and the biodiversity of the region.
(25:17):
That's the magic. That's the field training that every person who comes in with
an environmental degree still needs to do.
Well, you don't need an environmental degree to get that expertise.
You need time in the field. So if the work is primarily entry-level work with
(25:38):
the benefit of getting hands-on experience with the resource and building expertise with the resource,
that does not require an environmental degree
the challenge for
us and speaking about seasonality by
the way one of the challenges for keeping a team across the the calendar going
(25:59):
is what do you do in the summer months when things really boil down and stop
being very effective we're starting to transition to thinking of that as a training
period so increasingly we think of ourselves
as an environmental workforce development company,
as well as land managers.
(26:19):
And if we can reconfigure summer to be training and we can find money that's
specifically geared towards training instead of getting project work done,
then that quote-unquote downtime is actually an ideal time to train people on the resource.
I mean, when do you do nesting bird surveys? you do
(26:40):
it during the nesting season right you want to get that
coveted california gnat catcher permit you gotta go out with a certified biologist
and you gotta see gnat catchers in action right so if if you if you creatively
rethink things and you think about it as workforce development and not just project completion,
(27:03):
then new opportunities emerge.
And if you don't hire people on the basis of they're having a degree first,
which you don't need to for this kind of work, you can still give them that in-depth training.
That constraint doesn't entirely evaporate, though.
(27:24):
If people have worked for Canulans for two to three years and they're not coming
out the other side with a degree, they're not going to be able to successfully
move into the for-profit world where they can build a career and make more money.
And that has to be part of our goal as a workforce development organization.
It's not to have them work for us forever. And prevailing wage,
(27:45):
yes, that's our starting point.
We do that. And yes, we provide health insurance, a generous health insurance
package, because those are critical components for personal and family stability.
And that has to be the basis of any equitable job strategy.
So we do those things, but they're not going to work for us forever at that
(28:06):
rate. They're going to have to build a career.
So now what we're thinking about is not just summertime training,
but now we're thinking about what's the pipeline?
What do we have to provide people to get them into professional development certifications,
a two-year trade degree, and for the people who are really interested,
help them move into a four-year degree program so that they can come out of
(28:30):
having worked with us, taking the advantage to build themselves professionally
and actually have a career afterwards.
Because I can get rid of that constraint in my hiring practices,
but that doesn't mean everybody else is going to do that too.
So we do the work, we try to lead by example, but we also have to recognize
(28:52):
the world as it is, and we have to prepare our people to move on to something else.
That training component is still very much under development for us.
It's tricky. It's difficult.
You're partnering with lots of organizations trying to make that happen.
If you look at the conservation core model, it's geared towards people who haven't
(29:15):
even finished high school.
They'll give people work in the resource, so they're getting experience and
building a relationship with it, and that's great.
But they get their GED, and then they move on.
That's not good enough for me. I want to reform the whole industry.
I want Canyonlands to be a pipeline, bringing diversity, socioeconomic diversity
(29:36):
across the board into the industry.
That means we have to complete a pipeline. We're still working on that.
And yeah, that actually was my question, which you just answered was,
is the goal for people to move on and considering yourself as a workforce development agency.
And have you guys considered, oh, I'm sure you have, but I guess maybe what
(29:58):
are your thoughts on something like Canyonlands certification or saying that
you've worked for Canyonlands for two years,
like someone could take that to, you know, private employer or someone else
and be like, these are the things that this individual would have done like
under the Canyonlands program.
Yeah. So, you know, we actually have several programs within Canyonlands that
(30:19):
are all operating in parallel, right?
We have our ECO initiative, the Environmental Careers Opportunities Initiative
that targets people who've fallen out of the workforce because they,
you know, they become homeless or have mental health challenges or are justice involved,
that target, you know, people who are in the greatest need for immediate training
(30:42):
and help reentering the workforce.
But we also hire from local communities people who are meant to be with us long-term
and who want the experience and the ability to really build as naturalists and
build that kind of skill set.
So we bring in a lot of people in a lot of different ways.
(31:05):
We are working on a training program that might become like a canyoning certification.
But there are lots of certifications all over the place.
And we already are developing a reputation with partners like AEP and Recon
and others that people who've worked with us might be ideal people to bring
(31:27):
in for certain kinds of work.
But I think we have to do more than just create a certification or have a reputation.
We actually have to provide employment services.
We have to help people conceive of and strategize their own career paths.
And for those who stay with us for several years, that needs to become much
(31:49):
more structured and much more intensive than we're doing now.
People are learning amazing things in the field hands-on from their work.
But we have to become more of an employment agency, as you described it, which is weird.
We didn't think that we would be that, right? But if you're doing workforce
development, that's a necessary component of the work.
(32:12):
I love this. This is very inspirational.
I mean, I think I mentioned earlier, I was already inspired by some of the things
that you said you're already doing, but just the way you're thinking about this and how broad
and to create real change, not just patching a few leaks, but rebuilding the
ship and what it could be.
(32:34):
And I love this approach because I think listening to you talk,
I'm really inspired by people who don't do things the way they've always been
done because that's the way it's been done.
And it's like, well, we know it's a problem, but what can we do?
It's like, well, well, this is what we can do.
And oh, by the way, let's kind of shift our mindset over training people up
(32:55):
and giving them new skills.
And this helps us with some of our challenges, but also adds value back to the
community and the industry and society, the environment, all the things.
So it's just, I really appreciate you sharing this because it's just, it's very,
I think it's a very important message for others to hear who are in a position
to drive change and also people who want to get in the industry and might feel
(33:17):
that there's barriers years and that it's,
you know, it can't happen that there are opportunities out there with organizations
like yours that are creating pathways.
You know, I think that one thing that might be good for your,
your audience to really understand is that nonprofits actually,
they don't just fill gaps.
(33:37):
Sometimes they create whole strategies that are very difficult for the for-profit world to engage.
And I think, you know, I describe myself as a cousin of AEP,
you know, Canyonlands is a cousin of AEP.
Another way to think of this is that we're
part of an ecosystem where we're lower
on the food chain and we can help provide
(33:59):
support or pillars or strategic growth for the for-profit world by creating
a conduit for bringing people in other than the initial check for your degree.
(34:20):
And so if Canyonlands can become a pipeline for local for-profit companies to
bring in this diversity and to connect with local communities,
then I think we're doing a real service to the entire thing.
And, you know, everything I've been talking about is really,
and, you know, you described it as, you know, really thinking outside the box
(34:42):
and coming up with creative ideas.
It's really being driven by the necessity to integrate different things in order
to achieve success with this strategy.
It's an integrated process.
And you can think of it as kind of the front end of the process.
We're connected to the community. We recruit from the community.
(35:03):
We train that community. We create a pipeline, a training pipeline.
We provide, you know, eventually we'll be providing employment services over
many years to some people.
The back end of that ecosystem, the back end of it is you guys.
You need to accept my people. you need you need to partner with non-profits
(35:26):
that are doing this important community work,
so that you can be part of the solution because you're
not going to be able to do this community work the way that we can
it's part of our mandate and it's really not part of your business model in
the same way you can do more i'm sure like any for-profit company can but we
are uniquely situated to do this work so for-profit companies partnering with
(35:51):
non-profits that have this kind
of focus can really be a powerful partnership.
I love that. Well, we are at wrapping up. So I want to get into our wrap.
Oh my gosh, I'm so late over my words today. Jeez, wrap up rapid five.
Okay. Okay. So first question, what is your favorite daily habit?
(36:13):
Getting my day started early where I have focus time and no one calling me and no meeting scheduled.
Amen. Okay. What are three things you would bring to a deserted island?
A really good field guide, so I know what was edible. A Swiss Army knife.
(36:37):
And some really good shoes. Very practical. I love it. You'll be off that island in no time.
If you wanted to be. If I wanted to be. What is your favorite environmental policy?
You know, this is an icebreaker question that we ask at meetings sometimes.
And it really stumps people, and it always kind of stumps me.
(36:59):
I mean, I could say the Endangered Species Act, but I guess that.
Yeah, because it's the basis for the way that we value the natural world.
It's the connecting sinew between policy in a capitalistic society and valuing
(37:22):
the natural world, which doesn't have its value embedded in human use.
And i'm a very biocentric person
so so that i like that philosophical so
what is your favorite flora or fauna so many well let me name a recent favorite
(37:46):
let's see spotted tohi i think is my favorite local bird lately.
They're very gregarious and showy. I like them. And let's see, how about a plant?
Chorothrogeny phylogenophilia. Is there a... California cudweed.
(38:08):
And I like it because it grows in lots of places and makes everything smell nice.
Oh, I love that. Okay. And then finish this thought. Wouldn't it be cool if...
Wouldn't it be cool if we could go back and redesign our cities to be fully
integrated with natural resources and biodiversity?
(38:31):
And we had all the city amenities, but we lived in a green paradise.
Wouldn't it be cool if we didn't have to choose between being in a paradise
and having human culture?
Thank you so much, Blaine. I appreciate it. Jazza, it's really been a pleasure.
I'd like to get to know you better sometime too. You spent a lot of time asking me about me.
(38:55):
Music.
Thanks for listening. If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe to be updated
when new episodes are released and leave us a review to let us know what you think.
It also really helps us to share the podcast with others who may enjoy learning
about the environmental industry.
If you want to submit a shout out or any feedback, please send an email or voice
(39:15):
memo to podcast at califaep.org.
The email again is podcast with an S, podcast at C-A-L-I-F-A-E-P.
Music.
Popular Podcasts
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.