Ep 58 | From Anxious Child to Empowered Coach: My Story feat. Natalie Costa - Every L Podcast

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
conversation I often have with parents todayis one I can so relate to it. I think one of
the biggest things that I've struggled withas well is speaking up, is pushing back on
boundaries. And just because somebody in a suitwho's an authority tells you to do something,
doesn't necessarily mean you need to listento them. We've been taught to listen, but do
you know what I mean? I do feel like we're,I do feel like this is such a big disservice

(00:24):
we're doing with our children in terms of doas I say because I say so, listen to these
rules because we're not teaching them the skillsto be assertive, to think for themselves, to
speak up for themselves. And I was always tooscared to do that.

(00:49):
Welcome ladies and gentlemen, I'm your host,Mack Brown and you're listening to the EveryL
Podcast. Each episode we'll have a differentguest come on and talk about when life hangs
you in L, is it really a loss or is it somethingelse? Because not every L's a loss. So sit
back, relax or do what every guy do to get comfortableas we get into this. Let's go!

(01:21):
Welcome everyone to another episode of EveryoPodcast, where every episode we have a different
guest come on and talk about things that personindividually has navigated through, and they
talk about how it made them feel, what theywent through, what support they have, did they
accept it, did they not, did the things manifestthemselves in a way that was healthy or unhealthy,

(01:41):
and whatever else they have to talk about. Andthe reason we do this is because a lot of us
go through these many different emotions andfeelings and situations our lives. where we
think things are gonna go one way and they goanother, and we have to work out how we're
going to react to that said situation. And Ithink there's so much benefit from listening
to various people, no matter how you look atthem, whether you think they're up there in

(02:06):
an ivory tower, or they're someone that youwould never wanna aspire to be, because you
don't know what they're going through, how theygot from where they were to where they are,
without knowing them as an individual and what.trials and tribulations have had to navigate
through. And it will help us to grow as individualand hopefully have better empathy with one
another and build a more sustainable and positivecommunity as a whole. And it is as cliche as

(02:33):
it is, I have a fantastic guest. I've been chasingher for a while to be fair, but she's worth
the chasing, she's worth the hounding, she'sworth the patiently waiting in the background.
because she's an incredible individual who givesso much of herself to others that she doesn't
just benefit the children, she also benefitsthe parents, she benefits the schools, she

(02:57):
benefits the wider community, the corporateworld, because what she enables parents and
children to do is to be more independent, tobe more articulate when it comes to their own
emotions and be able to navigate their own bigfeelings that they all have, because being
a parent, as much as people think you've gotit all down, you just gotta look after a little

(03:18):
one. It's like, no, because a lot of the toughthings that the little kids are going through,
I've now got to navigate the feelings that Inever knew I had, thinking about, oh gosh,
they're gonna go into this new environment andthey're gonna ask me these questions and they're
gonna do this, they're gonna do that. I can'tcope with it. But Natsi just calmly comes in
energetically, just has that way of just calmingthe situation down, asking the right questions,

(03:42):
pulling out the information that's required.to help arm and equip the people with what
they need to be able to take control of theirown reactions of a situation, which is amazing.
It's an amazing skill, as is a fitness night.Anyway, but that, you know, that just adds
to why she's also amazing because she's justgot this energy and she's just so, so amazing.

(04:06):
But what I'm gonna do, what I'm gonna ask herto introduce herself, what I'd like you to
do, and this is something I've kind of wantedto do after having a chat with a guest is for
those people that may be visually impaired whomay not know what you look like, could you
please describe what you look like, includingethnicity if you're happy with that and whatever
else you want. Because I think it's importantthat we include people to know what they look

(04:30):
like because I am a black male, I am six footthree and I am extremely handsome and I'm not
going to go back on that. I agree, I agree.No, that's brilliant. And thank you so much
for having me. I'm okay to describe myself.I'm white. I'm from South Africa, born and

(04:52):
raised. I'm half South African, half Portuguese.Although I am really interested in doing my
DNA test. So that might change once I figureout what percentage I am and from where. But
my mom's from South Africa, my dad's Portuguese.I've got long,
quite a tan complexion because I'm just backfrom holiday, but that will probably last a

(05:15):
week.
And I'm not very tall. Often when people saythey meet me in real life, they expect me to
be bigger. I don't know whether that is a goodthing or a bad thing, but I'm quite short.
So yeah, that's what I look like. That's fairenough. Could you please introduce yourself

(05:38):
outside of that description of yourself, aboutwhat you do, who you are, before we go into
your first L? Yeah, sure. So I'm the founderof Power Thoughts, and that is a coaching and
educational service that I put together aboutsix years ago to initially help children tap
into the power of their own thoughts and togive them the tools when it comes to working

(06:00):
through those big feelings and the negativethoughts and self-doubts. But over the last
few years, the work involves supporting parentsas well. And it's really about equipping parents
with the tools and strategies as well, so thatparents are able to reparent themselves as
they're being parents for their child. And soboth learning these tools and strategies together.

(06:24):
I mean, and Matt, we've known each other forages. So I think, you know, initially, my work
was very much focused within schools, goinginto schools and running workshops for kids.
Obviously, I've got some private clients thatI work with, but now it's a lot more around
supporting parents and really giving parents,like I said, the tools and the strategies to
understand big emotions, both their own bigemotions and that of their child. And equally

(06:49):
being able to connect with their child in adifferent way that perhaps many of us, we weren't
taught or modeled or raised in that way. AndI think one of the big things that I see come
through my work time and time again is Nobodytaught us how to regulate our emotions, and
yet we're trying to teach a child how to doit, and it's incredibly difficult. And so that's
where the reparenting part comes in on like,what am I doing to regulate my own emotions?

(07:14):
And it feels really difficult to do that, alongwith other things. So my work now also involves
obviously working with parents, doing parentworkshops. I do a lot of work in the corporate
space for working parent networks as well. Soyeah, it's a mix. It's a mix of things which
I like the variety. And I appreciate the greatwork that you're doing for many of us because

(07:36):
even just being in your presence, being aroundyou always helps me to question my motives,
the reasons why I do certain things, how I feel,am I communicating the right way and so forth
like that. So I thank you for being who youare and for just doing the great work you're
doing that in the world. Thank you, thank you.That means a lot. I appreciate that. The L

(07:57):
you'd like to talk about today is anxiety, whichI find very interesting because someone who
is as eloquent as you are and well versed init, it kind of makes sense that you would be
good at being able to talk about it if you'vegot your own lived experience of it. So yeah,
please go to the top where you feel it's relevantto start and yeah, share please. Yeah, I think,

(08:25):
so I definitely... I think labels, because I'mvery conscious of like, I struggle with anxiety
or I've had real challenges. And I'm very consciousof the label I can put on myself in that box.
I mean, like, now I really identify with beinganxious. Because I think it's a bit of like,
I'm on the fence of these things. It can bepowerful, but equally, it can get in your own

(08:49):
way. I mean, that's just my own personal opinion.But I'm. I think by nature and tendency, I
was definitely more of a worrier and an anxiouslittle girl. I actually remember probably about
when I was at seven, we'd just come back fromholiday, and I just remember this feeling of
worry in my stomach, and I didn't know whatit was. And it's almost like it's just stayed

(09:10):
with me ever since. And I'd also be quite anxious,you know, going to school, new situations,
I always have these worries about what if scenarios.I mean, looking back now, and I've had lots
of conversations with my parents. My motherwould model worrying very well and my dad would
be very good at worrying as well And if I lookat grandparents on both sides, both of them

(09:31):
were more anxious in nature So I think it wasmodeled to me really well, you know, and we
often joke about that But um, I think it's somethingthat I've always found difficult especially
if I'd say look at other people we've been youknow, my husband that's quite relaxed and Just

(09:52):
things just don't generally tend to get in that,you know, it doesn't get that anxious about
things. So what really was, you know, what drewme to do the work that I do with children is
when I was a teacher and I was at, you know,I was, I mean, there's a lot to kind of put
in that, but there was a point when so manyof the kids I was working with were being quite

(10:14):
anxious about, you know, going to secondaryschool, about doing their SATs exams. And at
that point, point, I'd already looked at differentavenues to leave teaching. I was a qualified
coach. But it dawned on me, I was like, whyis it that we're not teaching children about
their thoughts? Why is it that only now at theearly ages of 30, which was then, am I only

(10:39):
realising now I don't have to believe everythought I think? I don't have to believe all
of these anxious worries and anxious thoughtsthat I attach myself to. why are we not teaching
kids these tools earlier on so that they don'thave to wait until their 30s and 40s to realize,
okay, there's a different way I can think. Idon't have to believe the story I'm telling

(10:59):
myself. And that really led me on the journeyof, well, what can I do? Because I done my
coaching training and I was really fascinatedabout, you know, and obviously I've got a background
in psychology as well. So I was always fascinatedabout the brain, how the brain works, mindset.
And it just hit me, I'm like, why are we notteaching kids about their thoughts? And so

(11:19):
that led me on this journey of what can I startto put together to help children now so that
they don't have to end up like me later on downthe line, like really trying to rewire their
brain and create new thinking patterns and,you know, giving them the tools earlier on
that can really become ingrained as habits tosupport them as they grow. So I guess the anxiety

(11:43):
has been a gift in one way. Had I maybe notstruggled a lot with it, I wouldn't have felt
so passionate to really make a difference andto support children in that way. And obviously
that then led to all other forms of work thatI do in terms of emotional regulation and emotions
and working through difficult feelings and resilienceand confidence and so forth. But I think that

(12:06):
was a key. That was definitely one of the keydriving factors. It was to give children the
tools really wish I had learned from a youngerage. Because I remember, you know, my parents
really struggled saying things like, well, don'tworry, and you'll be fine, and trying to rationalize
with me. But none of that ever took the anxietyfeeling away. In actual fact, it just made
it worse. And it's, and you know, if they camefrom a good place, because they didn't know.

(12:31):
And it's, it really took time to I suppose nowlooking back and I know so much more, so we
can really see what was going on, but this knowledge,this information wasn't available back then
as well. And I just think if I can now helpchildren begin to learn at this age or the

(12:53):
age they're at, whether that is six, seven,eight, 12, 14, when their brains are still
really malleable, really those strategies ofyou don't have to believe all the thoughts
you're thinking and latch onto those worries.And there is a different way to think about
it. You don't have to go into that fight orflight or that fear or when the anxiety sometimes
really takes over. There's a different way.I mean, that in itself is just so freeing.

(13:17):
So it did, whilst it was and still is sometimesa curse, I'm not going to lie, it still is,
still very much aware of it. And I think alsojust the more work I do and the more research
I do, it's As we know, your brain always hasthe ability to change and to grow. But I've
got some very well ingrained thought habitsand thinking patterns that I'm still learning

(13:42):
to unpick and learning to detach from thoseemotions that my body is so used to feeling.
So I think, yeah, that's definitely one of thebig reasons behind what got me started on this
journey of children and children's mental healthand obviously supporting parents as well. That's
interesting because again you're paying it forwardyour understanding where you was and becoming

(14:07):
the person that you felt you needed to supportyourself coming through. What was it that was
causing you such anxiety? Did you ever discoverwhat it was? No I still don't. I often still
think about that. I think it I just used tocall them my worries. And it just started when

(14:32):
I was about seven, yeah, six, seven years old.But I remember the feeling, the feeling of,
initially, I think it was we'd come back fromholiday and I was worried about going to school
and worried about fitting in and worried aboutthe next year. And, but slowly that would escalate.
And then the fee, it was more than the feelingthat would get bigger versus actually it's

(14:56):
the thought. It's like, I was more worried aboutthis feeling and not wanting to have this feeling,
but then worried that the feeling's gonna comeand then you worry about the feeling. And it's...
I think definitely, the more I know now aboutanxiety, it's also the really struggling to

(15:16):
navigate uncertainty. Like it's being able totolerate uncertainty. And I love my parents,
but if actually, don't think that was, theyalso too, as with most, their brain doesn't
like uncertainty, but they definitely were moreon the side of being more anxious versus. not

(15:37):
anxious, being more relaxed and laid back. SoI think a combination of it being modeled,
and that's just what your reality is, and that'swhat you know, that's what you see. You don't
question it because it's all that you know,I think is a big part of it. But equally, then
it also made sense to me why they were likethat, because if I look at how they were raised

(15:58):
and the environments that they were raised in.So it has been really interesting to take a
bigger. look at it. But you know, it's not thatanything traumatic happened to me. And I can
only speak for myself. But I think, you know,a big part for me was more environmental. And
I mean, I don't know, they love me. I had alovely upbringing. It's just, we were quite

(16:21):
nervous and careful. I get that. Was there anythingin particular, like phrases they used? Because
I know, I say to my son a lot, be careful. Andthat's mainly because when he was his only
child, he could throw himself around, do whathe wants, but bear in mind, he was only what,

(16:41):
two going on three at a time. So there wasn'tmuch he could do anyway. But when he had his
twin brother, well, his brother and sister comeabout, it's now his arms are longer, his legs
are longer, his range is further, he now wantsto play with big boy toys. And all I keep saying
is be careful, not just because. the bumps andbruises won't go away. It's because I'm gonna

(17:04):
have to tell you off because you wasn't mindfulof who was around you. And I keep saying, I
promise you, I'm getting to double figures ona daily. Be careful, be careful, be careful,
be careful. And I'm hearing myself say it. I'mlike, I know I shouldn't be saying this, but
I'm gonna err on the side of caution and sayall of this stuff, but later on I'll cuddle

(17:27):
him up. have a one-on-one with him and explainto him why. A lot of it flies over his head,
I get it, but I at least afford him that timeto talk. Was your parents similar in terms
of saying things like, be careful, oh, don'tdo that, or was it something else? Do you know
what? I also wanna add something else to this.I think... the environment I grew up in. So

(17:56):
there definitely was an element of be carefulbecause unfortunately the, you know, the crime
statistics in South Africa is not the best inthe world. And so definitely doing things independently,
obvious, you know, going out with friends. Therewas a very real element of be careful and be

(18:17):
careful could mean you're either going to dieor you're not going to die. Do you know what
I mean? Like if we're being really brutallyhonest, I think growing up in, and I think
Dr. Nicole Lepera also talks about this environmentthat she grew up in terms of somewhere in the
States, just a neighborhood that's quite knownto not be a very safe neighborhood. So collectively,

(18:40):
even that can make an impact as well. And I'mnot saying that because I had lots of friends,
my friends as I have very children, were theyback. But That was definitely a big thing that
I still stand up. I've got to be really careful,be careful with the traffic lights, be careful
if I go out at night, I've got to be carefulwhere I am and when I'm driving and things

(19:01):
like that.
But I think in terms of, again, my parents didthe best that they could, but yeah, there was
an element of overprotection as well, definitely.I think it's, and now looking back, I've had
conversations with my parents about, oh, wecould have maybe given you a bit more leeway.

(19:22):
But I also think it's really hard from the parent'sperspective because there's no manual, there's
no guide. You are literally winging it. You'rethe blind leading the blind. And you're just
doing the best that you can. And you're doingthe best that you can based on your upbringing
and how it was modeled and done for you. SoI think going back to your question of any

(19:47):
phrases, I can't really remember phrases assuch, but I just remember what if something
bad happens? That's kind of like, okay, butlet's plan for the worst case scenario. Let's
plan for the worst thing. And the worst casescenario rarely happens. And always that desire
to control or to know what the outcome is. That'sjust something that I remember quite a bit.

(20:20):
I appreciate it. When you had those feelingsin your belly where the knot was turning and
every time you kept thinking about somethingand then the knot would tighten and you kept
thinking about it and the knot was tightened,what was the thing, and this is before you
got to the version of yourself you are today,what was it that would relieve that tension,

(20:43):
that pressure? Is there anything that you stumbledacross or? thought of that helped you to unwind
and get rid of that anxiety so that you couldpush through and do whatever it was you needed
to do? Or did you always sidestep and navigateyourself around getting involved in that situation
that made you anxious? Good question. I've actuallynever thought of that. I think, so one of the

(21:08):
things that I've learned is asking for reassurancewould temporarily alleviate it. but that's
not the go-to because it's learning to trustyourself. I think, and interestingly, as I
was, you know, growing older and so forth, theonly thing that I did was push through it.
Like I would push through it and it would beawful. Like it would be awful, but I would

(21:32):
push through it because the thought of not doingthe thing that scared me, not doing that was
far more painful than let me just go for it.So in that way, I think that in a way, you
know, obviously then that builds your self-trust,then that builds your, oh, I could do that.
Like actually I'm a far stronger than what Ithought I was. I'm far more capable. Actually

(21:57):
I read a really good book on anxiety and, youknow, quote, kind of paraphrasing what was
said, but it was, you know, people with anxietytend to think that they're not very strong,
but actually they are incredibly strong becausethey're sitting and working with this feeling.
so often in their day and they're still goingthrough it and doing really difficult things,
but that feeling is still there.

(22:33):
And I think me pushing myself through the thingsthat scared me and would really make me feel
anxious, like instead of not, you know, holdingmyself back, that builds that sense of self
trust. But it was only much later that I thenstumbled upon exercise. So exercise was a big
thing for me. That really helped me alleviatethat feeling. And, you know, I mean, talk therapies

(23:00):
as well has been really beneficial, but thatobviously was later into my young adult years
and so forth. But as a child, it was quite difficult.You'd be asking for the reassurance from your
parents and you just don't have, I didn't havethe knowledge of actually, this is just butt
brain talking to me right now because I getkids I work with to create, personify that

(23:23):
negative voice and we create a silly character.And you know, well, this is butt brain and
what's butt brain saying to me right now? Andyou know, what evidence do I have to prove
that it's not true? And we start to really unpickthose thoughts. That was never taught to me
because I was never taught to like, oh, youdon't have to believe every thought you think
just because you think it's going to go bad.Is that really 100% true? Look for evidence

(23:46):
when it has to be like that. Just it was nevertaught to that degree. And I mean, to be fair,
you know, my parents didn't know either. Andit's, I mean, many of the parents I work with
today also don't know. And they're like, well,I need these tools, you know, because I just
want to say, don't worry, because I want tohelp my child, but actually I know that doesn't
help them. Did it manifest itself, your anxietythat is, in any unhealthy ways growing up?

(24:15):
I'd say definitely just the... Just like theexcessive worrying, the excessive energy that
I'd spend worrying about things and time spentworrying about things and you know definitely
sleep was a big thing and that still can beimpacted. You know not being able to sleep.

(24:38):
I mean could you say relationships because you'realways asking for that reassurance and everything
even when I'm younger that can sometimes bea bit clingy and a bit annoying. And I think
definitely, yeah, actually a big one is, likeperfectionism and overworking and doing more,
you know, going be over and above and beyond.So that doesn't go well with that. The words

(25:05):
at the high functioning anxiety, you know, thatdefinitely doesn't work very well because it's
well, let me get this perfect, you know, andI mean, that in itself can lead to, but, you
know. long faces, burnout and so forth. So Ithink those tendencies I definitely developed
from a young age of trying to push, work, go,da, da. Yeah. So that's, that I'd say it'd

(25:31):
be an unhealthy manifestation of it. It's unfortunatethat those are the things that how it manifests
itself, but it's nice to be able to identifywith it. Because from my experience, I've witnessed
people have body dysmorphia because of it, peoplejust lack confidence in everywhere, shape or

(25:53):
form of their life. They just have a lot of,they're consumed by self doubt. And some of
that was me going through some of that becauseI just didn't think I was good enough or, yes,
you're seeking reassurance, but then, you know,your parents do what they can do. They're not
always there, like you mentioned. So it's interestingthat someone like yourself had also gone through

(26:15):
something like that. Yeah, and I think definitely,you know, now you mentioned it, 100% lack of
confidence, lack of self-doubt, feeling alwayslike you don't belong. You know, there's a
big part of I don't fit in, I'm not one of thepopular kids, I'm not one of the in-crowd,
and that kind of stays, because those storiesyou're going to create then, and it kind of

(26:36):
stays with you. And I think Yeah, you know,that, like, really giving myself a hard time.
And like, what I'm saying, like, it goes backto that earlier point of just the excessive
amount of time I'd spend in my head. And, youknow, the anxiety, like the physical manifestation,

(26:59):
then take over and the heart racing and youcan't think clearly. And then you don't put
yourself out there. And then you, it becomesthis whole like self-fulfilling little prophecy.
So when you was younger, and you was havingthese bouts of anxiety, what was you telling
yourself to push through as you said? So I think,I can't, you know, I think when I'm, when I

(27:30):
say school's a bit of a blur, it, I don't, I'mjust trying to think of like an instance, perhaps
at school, I think one that probably might come.So repeat your question again, sorry, just
with your question. So when you was youngerand you had those bouts of anxiety and you

(27:50):
wanted to push through, what did you tell yourselfto be able to push through whatever it was
at the time that was causing your anxiety? Thefirst thing that comes to mind is, it sounds
really cliched, but I'm strong. Of course Ican do this. Now, interestingly, that would

(28:10):
be And it's weird because I think I would, ifI want something, like I remember, I mean school
to me was like, I don't really, nothing standsout at school, like I didn't really enjoy it,
but with university, I remember this trainingto be a teacher and I really wanted to do my
psychology degree. So I did that in the evenings.And...

(28:35):
Even though, and then to get from the degreeto get the honors, that was the one thing I
really wanted. And I wanted to get that. IfI got a certain amount of scores, that basically
meant my parents didn't have to pay. So I wasgunning for that A star. And I've seen the

(28:55):
pattern. If I won something, I'll be like, yeah,of course I'm going to get that. Yeah, I'm
going to do that. And there's this determination.There's this sense of. like assertiveness,
a sense of solidness. That's the only way Ican think of it. I'm gonna get that. And then
as I start moving towards it, that's when thatkind of the shit hits the fan. I'm like, I
can't do this, I can't do this. But I thinkthat initial solidness that I had, that like,

(29:22):
sorry, groundedness is kind of what gets methrough. And I mean, that's the same feeling
I had when I decided I wanted to come to theUK by myself, straight out of home, out of
uni. You know, I didn't live. I lived in myparents' home and then came straight here.
I mean, that was a shock to the system beingby myself. But that same feeling I had before.
And if I think when I taught, I taught in Berlinfor a couple of months as well and didn't just

(29:46):
decided to go, didn't know anyone, but thatwas the same kind of, I'm gonna do this, that
kind of groundedness. And I guess then goingback to one of your earlier questions, that
kind of started to build as a muscle. So thatnow, even now when I want to do things and
I'm really scared, I've done too many otherthings to be like, come on, we can't bail out

(30:10):
now. You've done this too much. You can't, comeon, come on, come on. You can't stop now. You
know, you have to push through. So there isalways an element of feeling grounded if I'm
thinking about like these bigger goals thatI want. And it's funny when really big stuff
happens, and I can't think of anything now,but I've definitely thought of this before,
but like when big stuff happens. I'm actuallyquite grounded. It's more the little things

(30:35):
that tend to like kind of rock the boat. Butagain, you know, one of the books I've read,
that's a very classic thing as well, which isquite interesting. I like that. I was actually
talking to someone the other day and they weretalking about how they had anxiety and they
were dealing with it. And then something wouldhappen, they start shouting at themselves saying

(30:57):
like, you idiot, why are you doing that forlike, you know. you can do this, you can do
this. And I just had to ask him, I said, thisis the first time I had any interaction with
this individual. And I said, after you'll see,do you respond well to being shouted at? So
what do you mean? So if you used to go to workand someone shouted at you, how would you respond?
Is that like the preferred method of communication?He said, well, no, I'd like have a word with

(31:21):
them like saying like, you're all right, likewhy are you talking to me like this? I said,
so if you're referring to yourself in thirdperson, why do you feel it's appropriate to
communicate to yourself in that way? And hejust was stunned. And I like having conversations
like this because it opens my mind to the possibilitiesof how we're framing things because we're unwillingly

(31:44):
and unknowingly doing certain things where we'reused to shouting at ourselves because we feel
that's the done thing, even though there's nomalice in it. It's just kind of like saying,
cut it out, move on. But we don't realize we'reprobably not showing ourselves as much love
as we maybe should do. and that can manifestitself or has manifested itself in something
that's quite toxic. Yeah. What you also mentionedas well about the momentum part of it. And

(32:10):
I have spoken about this thing in a previousepisode but it's an analogy that kind of stuck
with me. And it's the fact that every singleday of your life, you're building a bridge
and actively walking on it at the same time.And there are people that are looking at you
from a distance hating on you for where youare. but they have no idea that every step
you put down, you've had to just suddenly throwa plank of wood down and use chewing gum, prick

(32:35):
stick, no more nails, actual nails, whateverit is you've got, and you're just stepping
on it, hoping this thing don't collapse. Andyou look back, they're all way in yonder, and
they're like, look at you, and it's like, unlessyou're willing to do what I've done, please
don't say a word. Because one, I can't hearyou. Two, I don't want to hear you. And three,

(32:57):
unless you're waiting to come where I'm at,then just shush. And that reminds me of your
momentum moment where you realize I've donea lot. I've hopped on planes. I've traveled
different countries on my ones. I am puttingmyself in a situation where I am completely

(33:17):
out of my comfort zone and I have nothing elseto do in this scenario than to just swim. If
I don't swim or at least tread water, I'm drowning.And you're not about that. And that is commendable.
What made you take such a massive leap frombeing in a household where it's all you knew,

(33:38):
going to university because you want to achievestuff too. And so if there's human here, but
wouldn't that be nice? And then makes you know,it becomes your reality. How did you suddenly...
go from this anxious person to, yeah, why don'twe just hop on a plane and just go try something

(34:00):
new in another country? I don't think adventureor being adventurous. And definitely, I definitely
was. I'm the eldest of two as well. So I'm thattypical eldest child, followed by the book,
the people pleaser, do everything. I mean, mysister is like, yeah, whatever. She's got a
bit of a rebellious streak to her. And I think...So I think, and I think I didn't realize, I

(34:27):
grew up in a very, I'm very lucky that I hada, a very solid and privileged upbringing.
I'm very aware of that. I definitely also thinkwe grew up in a bit of a bubble, I think just
so protected. So deciding to leave home andthen come to the UK and teach like not knowing

(34:51):
anybody that, That was a much bigger step thanI anticipated. And I remember the first year
was awful. I just wanted to go back home. Andmy parents were like, no, she's staying. She's
staying. She's not here. We want her to stay.Well, no. I think, you know, when looking back,
I think my gut, I think I've always been quiteintuitive. My gut does speak quite. I can really

(35:17):
tune in. I'm like, that's my gut speaking. That'sthe nudge. And I. remember still having this
nudge towards like the end of my uni phase andI was like, well, what do I do now? Do I go
get a job? I'm like, so is this my life? DoI stay in Pretoria? And no judgment to anybody
that continues to stay in their hometown. That'scool. But that just wasn't for me. I'm like,

(35:38):
there's got to be more to my life than this.And that little nudge of but there's something
more, there's something more, there's somethingmore. And that same little nudge is the same
nudge or the same whisper that I've had timeand time again, whether it was when I trained
to become a fitness instructor, whether it wasthen to quit teaching and set up my own business.

(35:59):
And I would never, like, I'm not a businessminded person. I've never put myself down as
somebody like that. But that little guts nudgefeeling is the thing that was like. It just
wouldn't keep quiet until I did something. AndI wouldn't know it then, but now looking back,

(36:19):
and I'm a lot more in tuned into my intuition,I was like, well, that is what it was. And
not listening to that was more painful thanletting that fear hold me back. Did you have
any support helping you with your anxiety? Iremember the first time my parents took me

(36:40):
to psychologists probably when I was about 10.I just remember drawing pictures, a lot of
pictures with her, so I don't really remembermuch else. And then when I was about 16 again,
and actually then I was put on antidepressantsand I was on them until about 27. And then...

(37:02):
it was arranged by that stage in my 20s, I'dalready started to get into this, more into
the space around coaching and more around psychologyand more around how the brain works. And so
then it was me getting into meditation and intoexercise. I mean, I hated sports and exercise
as a child. So that was only in my like late20s and 30s that I got into it. So I think

(37:27):
it's been a mixture of of different things.And obviously of late, it's been a lot more
about different therapies and talk therapiesand practicing a lot of the things that I teach
as well. And, you know, journaling, like I said,meditation, mindfulness, and really in treating
to somatic work at the moment as well, and howyour body holds on to emotions. So that's something

(37:50):
else I really want to explore as well. So yeah,there's been a mix of things.
I'm trying to work out which way I want to gowith this, because I think you're a fascinating
human being and there's so many things I'd loveto unpack or unpick as you use it about your
situation, but I'm very conscious of time. Sowith all that said and done. you've gotten

(38:19):
therapy, you've done a whole host of thingsto try and work on you with your parents, were
they supportive of that? Were they the onesthat sort of told the line with that? Totally,
totally, totally. And I think, you know, asyou know, even parents, if they can, if they're
listening to this, I think it's really difficultwhen you can see your child is struggling and
you can't help them and you don't know how tohelp them, you know, especially when it is

(38:45):
something like and emotional support. And itmight even be something that you can't relate
to because what are you getting? So it doesn'tmake such, it's not such a big deal to you,
but yet it still breaks your heart because youcan't seem to reach them and be with them where
they're at. So I think they just wanted me tofeel good, to get better. Was there any stigma

(39:05):
around you going to therapy as far as you'reaware? Do you know what? I don't, and I know
there is, but I don't, I didn't, I never pickedthat up. I never picked it up. I think...
I mean, initially I was diagnosed with depression.I don't think it was, I think it was more anxiety.

(39:34):
And did, was it helpful? I mean, to some degreeit was. I don't know, looking back now, I'm
like, there's a lot more that we do today, butI appreciate things were very different then
as well, so you can't really compare. I don't,I can't recall if my friends knew that I was
going to see someone, but I also don't rememberfeeling like it was a stigma as such. How would

(39:59):
you describe the difference between anxietyand... depression. Okay, so anxiety and don't
have the textbook definitions. No, it's justhow you see it. I think, you know, if you're
asking me for me and my body, I, you know, Igo a lot with body feelings. And I think for
me, anxiety is a lot more around, it's moreof an immovable energy in my body. It's quite,

(40:27):
you know, my heart races. It's this... feelinglike I just feel like there's a lot of energy
in my body that needs to be released. Whereaswith depression, it's a lot lower. I think
it's a lot heavier. It's a lot more lethargic,heavy, heavy and slow are the words that come

(40:47):
to mind. And I think a real lack of interestin things if you initially would a lack of
motivation, whereas anxiety is more than nervousfor me anyway, is more that nervous energy.
that, but I've got to do something, whereasthe depression is like, well, just, just no.
So I guess if it was sort of like vibrations,depression would be like the low vibrations

(41:09):
that are just, you feel it, it's just kind ofmaking you feel numb. You suddenly don't realize
it's there, but you can feel it's there, thatmakes sense. And then the anxiety is just,
it's noise and, or it's vibrations, but to thepoint where it's just so erratic that you just
can't settle at all. You're just constantlyalways trying to stop things from falling off

(41:33):
the shelf and stop this and stop that and youjust don't get a moment's break. Yeah, yeah,
definitely, definitely. And if I think back,I'd say definitely it was more anxiety versus
depression that I've had that likes to comealong with me and hang out with me. You're
cool people like that. So with the topic ofyour friends, did your anxiety impact your

(42:01):
friendships in any way, shape or form that youare aware of, even in your later life? Hmm,
good question. I think friends as teens, it'sjust anxiety, like it's just anxiety all around
because you're always trying to fit in and youknow, especially with girls and teenage girls,
it's like there's a lot of like... Everybody'sjust balls of energy, I think. So if I look

(42:27):
back at teen years, it was definitely the causeof a lot of anxiety, comparison, trying to
fit in, you know, friendships, that's a trio,like that was really tough. But would it impact
it? I think not really friendships as such,but if I think now of, you know, being... in

(42:51):
a partnership with my husband, that can definitelyhave an impact at times. The, you know, where
there have been real, I mean, we've been togetherfor 14 years, so we've been together for a
very long time. Congratulations. Thank you.And, you know, he's very patient. He's very
calm. He's very just grounded and you know,it's going to be fine. Like that calm presence

(43:15):
that I think is definitely good for me. But,um, It can be exhausting, I think, being with
somebody like me, sometimes the consistent reassurance,the, are you OK, da, da. So I think it's, and
there have obviously, as with any couples, oneenergy feeds off the other energy, and it has

(43:36):
an impact. So I think in that way, it can definitelysometimes manifest itself in ways that obviously
doesn't help the relationship. Fair enough.So he's a yin to your yang. Yeah. Beautiful.
So let's assume everything where you are rightnow remains intact, the friendships, the relationships,

(43:58):
everything remains intact, but you are allowedto go back in time to your younger self. Now
I wanna ask you two questions. When would yougo back in time? That was the lowest point
of your anxiety journey that you can recall.And what would you say to your younger self

(44:21):
to help you push through and not just pull thehandbrake up and just go, no, I'm not doing
this anymore. I think teen years, I can't thinkof an exact age. About 15, 14, 15, 16, roundabout,
really low. Um, just struggled a lot, I think,in terms of self-confidence, like we spoke

(44:47):
about not feeling like you belonged, you know,friendship dramas and, you know, my father
was also incredibly strict so there was a lotof things I felt that I missed out on and I
mean, I know he needed to protect me but asa life of a teenage, you know, just wants to
go out and hang out with your friends. Thatwas a really tough, tough one. So I think that

(45:09):
was really hard and struggling family dynamicsin that capacity, I think. That's probably
when I would go back to and I would probablytell her not to give up. And just remind her
that there is a much greater life than whatshe's seeing in front of her right now. You

(45:33):
know, that she's going to be doing amazing thingsand. she's going to be traveling the world
and she's going to set up her own bloody business,believe it or not, because at that point she
probably doesn't believe me. But like what shematters, because at the minute she doesn't
think she does matter and she does belong becauseshe doesn't feel that she does belong. Yeah,

(45:55):
will probably be some of the things I tell her.So as eloquently as you were saying that right
here, right now, with the younger version ofyourself, 14, 15, 16, actually take heed to
what you said, or would you need to presentit in a different way in order for you to listen
to what you're saying so that you actually go,I hear you, let me get up and go. I don't know,

(46:20):
I wasn't very rebellious. I was quite, I justreally struggled because I didn't have a lot
of self-confidence and self-belief. I thinkI'd also go back and speak to my parents do
that. Okay, what'd you say to them? Understandingthe pressure that they're facing and the fear
that they have and worried about are they doingthe right thing or not, but also trust your

(46:49):
little girl, you've raised it to make good decisions.lengthen that rope a little bit and trust her.
Because how can you expect your daughter tospeak up and be build that resilience if there's
not opportunities to build that resilience.Right. And I think connect more because it

(47:13):
was, you know, I think it's, and this is whatI find a lot of parents I work with today is,
you know, parenting has changed and for manyof us, I don't know if you can relate, but
it was very much of a strict authoritarian styleof parenting that was fear-based and me being
a people pleaser, I just, I just, I just hated.having my parents upset with me, but it was,

(47:35):
you know, I'm making this up, they were lovelyparents. It wasn't, you know, I wasn't beat
or anything like that. It was just, but therewas a lot of very strict, very you do as I
say. And my personality style, I would get quitescared with that, you know, whereas like maybe
somebody else, my sister just, well, the stricteryou are, the more I'm going to push back. But
it all comes down to temperament styles as well.And Mel Robbins actually spoke about this one

(47:59):
of her podcasts with Dr. Russell Kennedy thatspeaks a lot about anxiety and anxiety actually
being your youngest self now that is seekingyour attention.

(48:27):
And they were just talking about, you know,different parenting styles don't always match
what the child needs. So anyway, we're not goingto get too much into that. But I think it's
coming less out of fear. And let's get a stepmore into that connection. Let's trust more.
Let's let's really connect with Natalie. Let'sreally connect to how she's feeling versus

(48:51):
it coming from the space of fear and that Yeah,because there's a conversation, sorry, I'm
just thinking, because it's a conversation Ioften have with the parents today as well,
and I can so relate to it. I think one of thebiggest things that I've struggled with as
well is speaking up is pushing back on boundariesbecause and just because somebody in a suit
who's an authority tells you to do somethingdoesn't necessarily mean you need to listen

(49:13):
to them. We've been taught to listen. But doyou know what I mean? It's like, I do feel
like we're. I do feel like this is such a bigdisservice we're doing with our children in
terms of. do as I say, because I say, so listento these rules, because we're not teaching
them the skills to be assertive, to think forthemselves, to speak up for themselves. And
I was always too scared to do that. I wouldjust have been, I would have liked to have

(49:37):
more opportunities to do that. Not that likeanything terrible would have happened to me.
I just have the tendency, the personality stylethat I hate making people mad and I don't want
people to be mad at me. And it's like, I don'twant to like deal with that. You know, it's
not that I would be, anything bad would happen.But I think, yeah, looking back, I would have
liked more, a little bit more leeway becauseyou could trust me. I wasn't gonna, you know,

(50:03):
do the stuff. And I think it's just giving abit more freedom to kind of bump my head by
myself a little bit, which is such a fine line,you know? Yeah. And that sounds great. It just
sounds like it's not just you fixing what youfeel needs fixing, it's a matter of the relationship
sounds like it was not as harmonious as it couldbe. And it sounds like potentially, and I could

(50:29):
probably relate to it, is if, well, I can relateto it, I'll put probably in there, cause let's
be honest, a lot of it is down to fear. I don'twant anything bad to happen to my child because
then I can't do control L, so control, I can'tdo control Z or. C'mon Zed, to undo that. Once
it's done, it's done. Once my baby's got a scar,they've got to scar whether it's physical or

(50:50):
emotional or otherwise. I don't want that forthem. So is it better that they stay away from
it than embrace it and go for it? Ironically,me doing this podcast, I'm a hypocrite at times
and I own that, but I am trying to work throughit. But that's how I see it. But I appreciate
your honesty there. So if you're gonna say anxiety,at the time was an L. What are you calling

(51:16):
it now looking back in hindsight? A gift. Becauseif I didn't struggle with it, I don't think
it would have gotten me to this point doingwhat I'm doing today. I don't think, because
that was like a big drive or a big passion thatgot me started with it. When I could see so

(51:38):
many of the kids, I was working really strongwith the same self-doubts, the same worries.
I'm not going to be good enough. I've got nothinginteresting to say. Everybody else is better
than me. I'm not going to be successful in lifeif I don't pass my SATs. Nobody cares about
your SATs, in the biggest scheme of things.But in their world, that's a big deal. I'm

(52:00):
boring. And actually, the one thing, this wasprobably one of the big key moments, is one
of the boys I was working with in the class,very bright boy. And he was going for school
interviews, like for secondary school. And hesaid to me, he's like, Miss, but I don't think
I'm going to get any because I'm boring becauseso and so once told me that I'm boring. And

(52:24):
that was a story that he latched on to. AndI was just like, well, if he sticks with a
story, that's going to impact him. We know howthese things hold on, how we hold on. I mean,
our beliefs are formed between these ages ofzero to zero to seven to 14. And it's down
to these simple stories that we tell ourselvesbased on an event that happened. And so I think,

(52:52):
me not being naturally a very confident littlegirl growing up and even young adults, and
even now still, I'm like, what the hell am Idoing? Every day I'm like, what am I doing?
What am I doing? But I could really relate tothat. And I could really, see how you can get
in your own way because of that. And it wasalso very close to home because at that point,

(53:15):
I was exploring stepping again out of my comfortzone, leaving teaching, but what does that
look like? All I know is I can't stay in teachingbecause I just can't, this is not where I'm
meant to be. So the anxiety was heightened atthat point again, because I'm doing so many
things out of my comfort zone and it just feelslike those negative voices are 10 times louder.

(53:38):
So I think in that way, it has become a giftand also really learning to tune into my body
and really sit and have a conversation withit. And that's what I get kids and families
to do of where do you feel the feeling in yourbody? What color is it? What shape is it? If
it could talk back to you, what would it say?And I really love the work of Dr. Russell Kennedy

(54:00):
of talking to that inner child of yours, thatlittle girl or little boy that's feeling really
anxious. what is it that they need? You know,and what did they need and how can you give
that to yourself? And I think that, you know,that in itself has helped me so much in doing
what I'm doing today. That's incredible. BeforeI wrap up, for the next two minutes, can you

(54:27):
selfishly, unapologetically plug yourself andeverything and anything you've got going on?
Two minutes is long. Okay, well. So what doI have to do? You don't have to pick up the
full two minutes, obviously. So at the moment,I mean, I'm quite active on Instagram. So obviously

(54:49):
people can find me there. My handle is powerthoughtsnc.LinkedIn, I started that about a year ago.
So I'm also quite active on LinkedIn. I'm lovingmy work in the corporate space with Working
Parent Network. So that is definitely an avenuethat I am. going to be building on a lot more
over the next year. I've got a group coachingprogram, at the moment I've got a membership

(55:11):
but I'm thinking of changing that to a fixedprogram so that's something that I will be
sharing more about and that's for parents. AndI've got my books, I've got four activity books
for kids. I'll send you one by the way, oneof the latest ones I've written down your name
so I'll do that. So we've got four activitybooks around confidence. What are they called

(55:35):
actually? Know your feelings and love beingyou. I know there is one on friendships. I
can send you the names. Stretch your confidence,find your power, love being you, know your
feelings and help your friendships flourish.
Yes. Fair enough. Thank you very much for comingon and sharing all that you had.

(56:05):
I knew I was going to enjoy this conversationbecause every time I have a conversation I
feel... I've explained this before, it's sortof like energy exchange. Sometimes people just
take energy from me and they'd be feeling somesort of way. Thankfully, each and every one
of my guests have never left me feeling thatway, where you can have like a 10 minute conversation
with someone and then you just need to go awayand recharge for all of 12 hours because it
just... done you. You have always reciprocatedthe energy I've given, even though I feel like

(56:31):
my energy is never adequate enough, not justto you, but to people in general. And you always
seem to give it back with a slight spice toit because it's you, it's your, it's what you
offer. And that's what I've always loved aboutyou seem to be coming from a place of sincerity.
It's genuine. It's there is no malice in whatyou do from what I have experienced. And to

(56:58):
hear you talk about the anxiety you've had tonavigate through overcome and stuff like that,
I guess I'm able to relate to it because thereason I have so many different conversations
with so many different people is because I sitin my feelings a lot of the time. So when people
talk about certain things that they've touchedon, I can kind of go, I can hear that I can

(57:20):
feel that I can see. because I've been thereand to the point where people say, oh, but
I get anxiety over this and so on. Cool, sitin your feelings and just think it out. What
if this doesn't happen? Well, this happens,okay, then what? Well, then this happens and
then what? Well, I'll have to go back to squareone. Okay, so what's the big thing? But it's
the fear of the unknown that gets you in a cripplingstate where you feel like you cannot progress

(57:44):
any further. But if you play it out, you realize.There is no unknown. It's no difference. Well,
I like to say it's no different too. When you'reyounger, you watch a scary movie because why
would you watch a scary movie? That's so dumb.But you watch a scary movie, right? And you
need to go to the fridge, but you're petrifiedbecause the lights are all off and you see

(58:05):
shadows moving and you're all scared. But youknow, if you just got a light, there's nothing
there. But as soon as the light's not there,your mind starts going to the deepest, darkest
crevice of everything. That is what anxietyfeels like to me. It's when I'm not willing
to open up that email, not willing to open thatletter, not willing to read that email, that
WhatsApp, that whatever it is, sometimes youjust shine a bit of light on it and just own

(58:28):
it because the worst you can say is somethingyou don't agree with, but you know what, you're
bigger, you're badder, you're stronger thanthat. And if it's not what you wanna hear,
it's all right, because you know what, life'sfull of them. You just gotta navigate accordingly
and you do well. And I think you... are a testamentto show that no matter how you see yourself,

(58:48):
isn't necessarily how the world will see youor the impact you can have on the world. Because
sometimes people need to go through somethingin order to champion that something. So I love
you for what you've done, for taking ownershipof how you felt, for putting yourself in that
position. Mad love and respect to mom and dadfor all that they've done in the village that

(59:10):
also supported you to get you from where youwere to where you are now. It's encouraging
for me to know that even though I may say tomy son, be careful several times an hour, but
it's nice to know that potentially he mightbe able to have a positive impact on the world
and still have love for me and have love forhimself and appreciate that he has such value

(59:36):
to this world and the world will love him. Notall of it, but... they will love him for what
he can uniquely bring as well as my other twokids. So thank you for coming on. Oh, no, thank
you. It's been an absolute pleasure. I feltlike therapy was much needed. Thank you. I'll
send you my bill. Yeah, same with the invoice.So for everyone else, I hope you enjoyed the

(01:00:00):
conversation because I really did. And I hopethis just gives you an insight to see someone
as successful, someone in the public eye asNatalie, who does what she does. still has
the same concerns that we've probably all experiencedat one time. Please reach out to her. Please
get in contact if you know someone that couldbenefit from what she does or hear some of

(01:00:21):
the things that she shares, because she's allabout giving of value. She gives of herself
so much. She I tell her to rain in a littlebit, put a surprise on it. But no, she doesn't
do that. She doesn't do that because she's justlovely, innocent like that. But. What can I
say? I do these podcasts for free. Can you imagine?But ultimately, she's just giving of herself
and she is an amazing human being. I just wantyou to go over and follow her on social, connect

(01:00:45):
with her. Why you're at, come follow me on everypodcast on LinkedIn. Yeah, no, no. Follow me
on Instagram, because I do some exclusive contenton there every now and again. And yeah, just
rate review the episodes if you do like them,because the more people that hear these, the
less alone they will feel. So I thank each andevery one of my guests for coming on, and that's

(01:01:06):
included. And just hopefully this message rangtrue with you and let you know there's nothing
about a caterpillar that tells you it's gonnabe a butterfly. Look after yourself and I'll
speak to you the next one.

All Episodes

Ep 58 | From Anxious Child to Empowered Coach: My Story feat. Natalie Costa

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

Are You A Charlotte?

On Purpose with Jay Shetty

Dateline NBC

.css-15opob5{left:0;position:absolute;top:0.8rem;} All Episodes

.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Ep 58 | From Anxious Child to Empowered Coach: My Story feat. Natalie Costa