Ep 60 | Silencing the Mean Voice: Choosing Kindness in a Critical World feat. Kaylee Grace

In this episode, I am joined by Kaylee Grace. During this episode we delve into the importance of understanding our internal world, the power of self-reflection, and the transformative journey towards self-acceptance. Kaylee's story is one of resilience, healing, and prioritising personal growth to benefit herself and her daughter. Here are 3 topics you’ll hear us cover amongst others: 1: Understanding the Importance of the Internal World 2: The Impact of Childhood Experiences 3: Overcoming Addictions and Negative Voices

Get ready to deep dive into the childhood of Kaylee which will, no doubt, make you question what you were exposed to growing up and reflect on your own actions towards family members. Follow me on Instagram: @EveryLPodcast for exclusive content and please RATE and review on the platform you are listening on

More about Kaylee:

After 30 years of struggling with depression, panic attacks and just making bad decisions and failing a lot, Kaylee Grace dedicated her life to figuring out why she was the way she was. Now she shares this journey with such passion and enthusiasm it makes people walk away feeling inspired to create their own life in a far better way. Visit her website to keep up with what she is doing and check out her podcast on YouTube for more of her content   Website: Lovecreatesfreedom.com Podcast: https://www.youtube.com/@KayleeGrace

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
And that was kind of, it's weird, but that wasmy upbringing. If I did something, so if I
did something nice, or if I was happy, if Iwas fun, or if I was playful, there were times
where I would get punished for it. And if Idid something wrong and I was bad, then I would
get punished for it. And when you're raisedin this environment where it doesn't matter

(00:21):
whether you're happy or sad, you get punished,you start to go, well, I can't be happy or
sad. So I just better stop being both of thosethings. And then you start numbing yourself
out. So you stop being creative. You stop playing,you stop laughing, you stop having fun. But

(00:43):
you also stop doing things that get you intotrouble. So then you just live in this very
small, small box with a voice in your head thatjust constantly says, don't do that, you'll
get punished.

(01:09):
Welcome ladies and gentlemen, I'm your host,Matt Brown and you're listening to the EveryL
Podcast. Each episode we'll have a differentguest come on and talk about when life hangs
you in L, is it really a loss or is it somethingelse? Because not every L's a loss. So sit
back, relax and do what every guy do to getcomfortable as we get into this. Let's go!

(01:41):
Welcome everyone to another episode of EveryHell Podcast where we have different guests
come on and talk about things in their lifethey've gone through where initially it felt
like an L, a loss, because things did not panout the way they hoped they would. They put
certain things in place, they did everythingthat was required of them, and for one reason

(02:01):
or another, things didn't go right. They wentleft, and at left and feet in some sort of
way. We're gonna explore them, we're gonna askquestions, we're gonna just get a better understanding
of what they did to navigate those spaces, thosefeelings. And ultimately, was it an L or was

(02:22):
it something else? But that's not for me tosay, that's for my lovely guests to go through
and explain. Now this individual I bumped intothem, feels like a couple months ago now or
something like that. But I'm grateful I havebecause they live in a very far away place
to where I'm at. Somewhere where there's likesuper human sized spiders and I don't do spiders

(02:45):
like that, that's just wrong. They're like,they can paralyze a human being. I'm not on
that at all. However, they're still here. They'restill navigating that space and they're much
better human than I am because trust me, I wouldhave eloped, I would have, no. No. But I love
them for their honesty, what they do. They alsodo a podcast as well. And... It's just the

(03:06):
level of honesty and vulnerability they're willingto put out there because I think, and obviously
if you listen to the podcast, you know whatI'm like about and how I champion it. I think
there is an issue with the lack of vulnerabilitythat we share, a lack of honesty and sincerity

(03:26):
in terms of what we put out there. Instagramand the likes will always help you to put things
out that are filtered, that are perfected withquotation marks. when the reality is they're
not that it's distorting, they encourage bodydysmorphia and a sense of underachievement
because you're not hitting these lofty heights.She's not like this at all. She's very humble,

(03:50):
she's very grounded, and she's very resourceful.She's very resourceful. She does things with,
she has a land, she does things with the landthat I again probably couldn't do. I probably
could if I put my. If I put my mind to it, Iprobably could. Give me a long period of time
to get my head around it, but she's just thatperson who I'm grateful exists, grateful has

(04:15):
a voice and is willing to use that voice tohelp others feel less alone and to help them
connect with the fact that it's okay not tobe okay some of the time. But you know how
I am. I love my guests and my guests, each andevery one of them are fantastic and this one
is no different. I have Kaylee here. Kayleigh,do you mind introducing yourself in a way you

(04:38):
see fit? However, there is one caveat that I'verecently introduced and it's because I'm being
more mindful to those guests who are visuallyimpaired. I would like you to describe yourself
in a way that lets people know what you looklike. So for instance, I will say I'm a black
male. I am very handsome. I am six foot three.I'm gonna keep that very handsome part because

(04:58):
I am trying to own it regardless of what myhair looks like. But. Could you describe yourself
and just introduce yourself in a way you seefit before we go and talk about your L? Oh
my God.
warning would have been so good. I am now brutallyuncomfortable. I am, I don't know, female.

(05:24):
I have no idea how tall I am. Five nine, fiveten something. I don't know how tall I am.
No, five, ten and a half maybe. I don't know.Can't answer that question. Fair enough. Long
hair, really long hair.
I think that's as much physically as like, you'reprobably better off describing me physically

(05:46):
because you're the one looking at me. You lookat yourself daily. I know, but it's one of
those brutally uncomfortable conversations of,well, what do I say about my physical appearance?
You could say you're a Caucasian lady with longblonde hair. And yeah, that's, that's enough.

(06:07):
That is great. You did that for me. And thankyou very much for that amazing introduction.
I feel like I'm going to take that snippet ofthat introduction and just listen to it every
day to remind myself how fantastic I can befrom the perspective of somebody else. So then
I'm not spending so much time in my head listeningto the voices that are telling me their very

(06:33):
narrow, limited judgmental perspective. I'mgoing to listen to your perspective instead
because it's far better than mine. Take it,take it. Um, and you're right. I do live on
land. We live on 140 acres, um, with dogs andcats and chickens. We had geese, um, but they've

(06:56):
moved next door and we've got Guinea fowl. Um,and now we have cows, so we have three bulls.
that have moved in from the forest next door.They just arrived one day and never left. So
that's kind of like the very generic, wheredo I live? What do I look like? And from a

(07:16):
deeper perspective, I have been on my journey.So I took the pill when I was 30, and I'm now
47. So I have been on this journey for 17 years.And for the first, I think for the first eight
years, it was extraordinarily isolating becausethere was no one else doing this work. Podcasts

(07:43):
didn't exist back then. People weren't doingthis kind of stuff. Facebook was more, take
a photo of your food and put up what you hadfor lunch today. That's what Facebook was back
then. You weren't sharing authentic opinions.And anytime I shared an authentic opinion,
I would get slammed by so many people saying,no one wants to hear that, no one wants to

(08:06):
know that, no one wants that level of authenticityor vulnerability. Just tell people you're having
a good day. And through all of this feedback,I pulled everything down and kind of quite
literally disappeared from life. But what Ididn't know was that, I didn't know why I was

(08:27):
doing it at the time. I just knew that I justhad so many parts inside of me that were saying,
you need to pull this down, you need to runaway, you need to isolate, you need to become
a hermit. I didn't know what was coming. Andthe last eight years of my life has been my
very own special version of hell for me, goingthrough giving birth to my daughter. And that

(08:53):
was... That was a traumatic birth. It went verywrong. From my perspective, it went very wrong.
Maybe very normal for other people, but verywrong for me. And then four months later, so
my daughter was four months old, I found outthat my mom had terminal cancer and she wasn't
meant to make it to my daughter's first birthday.So my introduction to single parenthood was

(09:20):
my mom getting sick and dying. She... passedaway two weeks after my daughter's third birthday.
So she went for three years. And then in thattime, I also ended up with an eating disorder
because even though I was ready to be a singlemom, I wasn't ready to be a single mom without

(09:44):
my mom. And so that was a bit of a shock andmy entire world fell apart because of what
I didn't realize. which has been really fundamentalto my growth over the last couple of years,
was that my mom was my foundation. That shewas, I had been raised just to seek all of

(10:07):
my answers from her. So if I had a problem,I'd pick up the phone and have a conversation
with my mom. And based on whatever criticismI receive, would help me make the choice. But
I was very dependent on that. I was very codependenton my mom. making my life choices for me. And
then when I messed up, going back home to mymom, that was always my solution was, well,

(10:33):
it didn't matter if I cock this up because Ican always go running home to my mom. And I
did, even when I got divorced. So my ex-husbandis not the father of my daughter. I was married
in my 30s. And when I divorced him, I went runninghome to my mom. every relationship that I had,

(10:54):
I would go running home to my mom. Like there'sa, there's a very strong pattern and a very
strong addiction to the energy that my mom providedme. So when she passed away or when she got
sick, the foundation started to rock. Like thewalls were starting to crumble obviously because
I knew her death was coming. It was imminent.It's not like. she was sick and this was something

(11:18):
she was going to get over. I was like, no, shewas sick and the outcome is death. There was
no way around it. So my own special place ofhell was when she died, realizing how attached
and how codependent and how addicted I was towhat she provided to me. Because after she

(11:41):
passed away, all the foundations and walls thatI had just disappeared. and I started free
falling and there was nothing, there was nothingfor me to hold onto, there was nothing for
me to catch, there was nothing for me to useas a foundation, it just didn't exist, there
was no base for me to stand on, so I was fallingall the time and emotionally, it was the darkest

(12:09):
place I've ever been because I would just wakeup in the morning feeling like a worthless
sack of shit who just deserved to have a pileof horse crap land on my head. And then I'd
go throughout my day that way. And then I'dgo to sleep feeling the exact same feeling.

(12:30):
And then I'd wake up in the middle of the nighthaving massive panic attacks. And I would spend
my days having panic attacks. And it just cameto a point. And I was also having the eating
disorder, restricting food. quite severely.I just got to a point where my life was just

(12:53):
purely survival. I just ate to breathe and Ijust breathe to breathe and that's all I could
do. There was nothing else I could do. I couldn'tgo anywhere because I was terrified by humans.
I was terrified by how I felt. I was terrifiedby getting in the car. And I had my daughter,

(13:14):
this was a while I was raising my daughter,in a way that she didn't get too traumatized
by what I was going through. So I was extremelymindful not to make how I felt about her. So
it's really easy as a parent to take how youfeel out on your kids. So if you're feeling

(13:36):
angry and your kid does something, it's reallyeasy to take that out on them. It's typical
for lots of parents. It was typical for my mum.she took how she felt out on me. If she was
angry or having a bad day and I was loud, thenI'd be told to be quiet or go to my room or
do something. So I was extraordinarily mindfulnot to take out what I was feeling on my kid.

(13:59):
So here I am trying to raise this amazing, delightful,happy bundle of joy that I didn't want to squash
or silence or traumatize in any way possible.While I am living my own personal hell, dealing
with my own demons, all the voices in my head,they really got amplified after my mum died

(14:24):
about how little my life was worth, how littleI was worth, how little my entire existence
was worth. And I remember getting to this pointwhere I found this part inside of me. that
was just looking at me going, there is absolutelyno part of you that is relevant to this existence.

(14:47):
So we don't understand why you're alive. Andit's like, wow, okay. And that kind of is where
the deep, it took me a lot. It's taken me alot to pull myself out of that very, very dark
place. And I did almost. die through the eatingdisorder, death came for a visit. I found notes

(15:11):
actually, I'd written it in a book and I foundthe notes about two months ago where I'd written,
death came for a visit and he's been here forfive days and I don't know if he's gonna leave.
And I remember having the conversation withhim where I was looking at saying, no, I'm
not, I'm not ready to die. And he was just standingthere nodding his head. I said, I'm not ready

(15:34):
to die. And I just... kept saying no and hekept saying yes and then he pointed to my wrist
and I looked down at my wrist and my wristswere, like this is when I was in the prime
of my eating disorder, I was down at like 51kilos and I'm, whatever it is, five, 10, five,
10 and a half, so I'm tall and 51 kilos is nota lot. And I remember looking at my wrist and

(15:58):
my skin was gray and you can see the bones throughmy skin, it's like it was almost translucent
and I looked. And I looked like death. WhenI look at my mom and the day before she passed
away and I saw her, it was that same kind oflook. She had that same kind of grayness. That's

(16:19):
what I had. And the day before I'd gone to seea friend who does network chiropractic, and
he actually said to me, your life forces, hesaid, you're holding on by a thread, there's
nothing left. If you don't do something, I don'tthink I'm gonna see you again. You have to
do something. And that was like over that fivedays that death was hanging around. And I just

(16:47):
look, made the decision to just go, I'm notgonna let this be my demise. I'm not gonna
let this moment right now with all the demonsin my head, with all the feelings in my heart,
with all the shit going on around me and mylife falling apart. I'm not gonna let this
be the reason why I died. I appreciate you sharingthat. And for people listening, the L that

(17:13):
Kaylee wants to talk about is addiction. Nowfrom the sounds of it, from hearing that very
detailed journey, it sounds like you were addictedto a form of normality of your mum being your
bedrock, being that consistent force in yourlife that... you could always return to, always

(17:34):
go back to, always support you as and when requiredto. And when that was under threat, it seems
like, and I'm happy for you to correct me becauseclearly I don't know your story like that.
And that's what we're here to have a conversationabout. It's, it manifests itself in a way such

(17:54):
as food. That it felt like there was something.there's a way it came out. And I would love
for you to be able to share a little bit moreabout it because what I'm conscious of is looking
at you from the outside, looking in, you looklike you've got it all together. Yes, there

(18:18):
might be times when you can say what you say,but as far as I'm concerned, you've got it
together. You're doing what you're doing. You'vegot a lot of things on your plate and you're
spinning them well. But you're telling me it'sbeen hard. what does that look like? Following
what happened, how did these things manifestitself? Why did they do it? To share what you

(18:43):
feel comfortable sharing. I'm just interestedto know a little bit more about it, just so
others can feel less alone if they are goingthrough this stuff. Or they might have people
in their circle who may be going through whatyou've been through and they see some of the
signs are overlapping and go, oh, okay. Yeah.So my addiction wasn't specifically to going

(19:12):
back to my mum and using her as a safe space.It was the addiction to the victim. So my mum
was a martyr and she was also a victim and Iwas raised in a very similar way. I mean, I
didn't, you know, when you're when you're raisedby a victim, it's really hard to find any other

(19:36):
way. unless there are other people in your externalworld, but everybody in my external world,
they all had elements of victim, or they putme in the position of being a victim because
I was blamed for a lot of things growing up,that when I look back, I think they should

(19:56):
not have been. They should not have been myresponsibility. They were the responsibility
of my parents, not my responsibility. And sothat, that I call it the victim hit. It's very
similar to any addict, alcoholic, drug addict,TV addict, exercise addict. They're doing it

(20:18):
because they want the hit. They're doing itbecause the thing that they do gives them an
element of relief from how they feel. And, andfor some of us, I mean, if you, if you go by
the dopamine hit, which is ultimately why peopleare addicts in the first place. is that they're
constantly seeking that dopamine hit, that hitthat makes them feel a little bit better. And

(20:39):
for me, that little bit better hit was goingback to my mum, was having that conversation,
was having that, and it seems really weird,but anytime I used to get to feel too good,
didn't make sense. I needed to be in that realmof a victim. And so I would pick up the phone

(21:05):
and call my mom and get that hit and go, Oh,okay. There's my reality again. That's, that's
my answer. When I failed, I failed in a relationshipand went back home. That was me getting that,
that very big hit of, yep, you failed. Yep.You shouldn't have done that. Yep. That was

(21:26):
bad relationship. Yep. Like it, it enabled allof those voices that I had been raised. to
listen to and believe as well. And the addiction,all addictions are an addiction to a feeling.
It just so happens that my addiction to thefeeling was a really, really bad one. It's

(21:51):
a really bad one. And so when my mom got sickand that changed, like that hit started to
change because She started to change, her prioritiesstarted to change. She was more focused on,
she became more of a victim than what she was.Prior to getting sick, she was more of a martyr,

(22:12):
which would then enable my victim. But thenwhen she got sick, she started to become a
very strong victim, but then started to notbe able to supply me with that hit. This is
how I view it, and other people might see itdifferently, but this is how it unraveled for
me. My brain took on that role. My brain...suddenly started to amp up the negative voices,

(22:36):
the abuse really, like the criticism, the manipulation,the control. It just got really, really loud
in my head. And it was brutal. The voices, thethings that my head was telling me was like,
it was really brutal. It was this mean girland she never stopped, ever. She just never

(22:58):
stopped. It didn't matter what I did. therewas, it didn't matter what I did, I would get
punished for it. And that was kind of, it'sweird, but that was my upbringing. If I did
something, so if I did something nice, or ifI was happy, if I was fun, or if I was playful,
there were times where I would get punishedfor it. And if I did something wrong and I

(23:20):
was bad, then I would get punished for it. Andwhen you're raised in this environment where
it doesn't matter whether you're happy or sad,you get punished. You start... to go, well,
I can't be happy or sad. So I just better stopbeing both of those things. And then you start

(23:41):
numbing yourself out. So you stop being creative.You stop playing, you stop laughing, you stop
having fun. But you also stop doing things thatget you into trouble. So then you just live
in this very small, small box with a voice inyour head that just constantly says, don't
do that. you'll get punished.

(24:17):
And when I found that voice, it was just, it'slike, this is insane. I can't believe how much
this voice controls my entire life. And thefood came into it because, um, there were moments

(24:39):
in my life, in my twenties, I was in a relationshipwith a guy and when I ended it, he actually
said to me, I think you're bulimic. becausethere's no way anyone could eat as much food
as you do and not be able to be as skinny asyou are. And I remember that this was over,
this happened over 20 years ago and I stillremember the conversation. I still remember

(25:02):
bursting into tears and I still remember goingto my dad and my dad saying, well, you know,
he's ridiculous. Don't worry about it. But hebrushed it off. There was no, there was no
support for that hurt part inside of me. Itwas like the kid who falls over and raises
his knee and the dad goes, just get up and brushit off. You're fine. Brace yourself off. There's

(25:23):
nothing wrong with you. But the kid is bawlingtheir eyes out. What they need is a hug. What
they need is to sit on their dad's lap and havetheir dad say, oh my God, I'm so sorry that
happened to you. And validate the hurt, validatethe pain, validate the trauma. Because ultimately
what I really, really understand is that that'sall we really want as a kid, is when we're

(25:48):
in pain, we want it validated. We don't wantit brushed off. We don't want it ignored. We
don't want it pushed to the side. We don't wantto be told, just get up and shake it off. You'll
be fine. We don't want that. We want to be allowedto sit and cry. We want to be allowed to be
upset at the fact that somebody just hurt us.A friend was mean to us or we grazed our knee.

(26:11):
All of those things are relevant and valid.But when you're raised in an environment, which
honestly, most of us, most people around mygeneration and older were raised in an environment
where you weren't allowed to cry about fallingover. You were being ridiculous if you cried
for too long, or you were ridiculous if youcried about someone teasing you. It's like,

(26:35):
don't worry about it. It's not, it doesn't meananything. It does mean something. I think the
worst part of all of it for me. was findingthat punishing voice, was finding that part
of me that just wanted to punish me constantlybecause that was my upbringing. You exist,
so you should be punished. And that the unravelingthat has really been the key to me changing

(27:00):
how I feel about myself. I had to unravel thatfirst. That voice, whose voice was it? Was
it your own voice previously or was it you hearingthe voice of your mum, the voice of your dad
saying the same thing they've said previously?It was definitely mine even though it had come

(27:26):
from those experiences. It wasn't only my mumand dad though, there were friends, school
teachers, neighbours, like I was just the heream I and anytime I did something it was worthy
of being It was lots, there were so many voices.And I remember, it's a long time ago, I said

(27:47):
to someone, cause they asked me why don't Ihave, why don't I see my family and why don't
I really have that many friends? And I said,well, I don't really need them because I have
all these voices in my head that do the jobof all the people outside of me were doing.
So I made the choice not to have the externalworld around me because it was too much to
have the external world and the internal worldand both of them equally beating me up. Um,

(28:12):
and it was, it was my voice that I had at somepoint decided that I deserved. So how did that
manifest itself in how you coped with it? Wasit a matter of you pulling yourself away from
people was the main outcome of it, or was itthrough eating because of what that person

(28:39):
has said and then your dad. brushing it off.I'm only using those two examples because that's
all I know that you've told me. I don't knowif there's anything else there potentially.
Since becoming aware of it, it has been thisconstant, it's almost like pushing a boulder

(29:02):
up a hill. And people say awareness is the key.Like awareness is the key to everything. If
you become aware of what you're doing, thenyou can change it. And I am the walking, living,
breathing example that awareness doesn't doanything, because I've been aware of this for
a long time. I have well over 10, 12 years thatI've been aware of all of these parts. And

(29:27):
the awareness didn't stop it. Didn't changeit. Didn't magically mean some rainbow was
going to shine down on top of me. And the nextday I was going to make a new decision because
all of a sudden I was aware. It wasn't likethat. Um, and for me, it manifested in.

(29:51):
always making choices based out of fear, always.But me also seeing myself, because that's where
the awareness is. You watch yourself doing thisgoing, damn. But there's nothing I can do.
It was like I was completely out of control.I hadn't stepped in and said, okay, enough

(30:14):
is enough. I was... living and breathing andexisting through my voices and feelings. So,
so in my world now, I really clearly understandthat you have voices in your head and you have
feelings in your body and then there's you.And until you create that separation, you are

(30:36):
the voices in your head and the feelings inyour body and your entire life is driven by
those voices and feelings. And there is no.there's almost like there's no choice because
you're simply going about life, reacting basedon what you're thinking and what you're feeling.

(30:58):
And for me, part of the reason we're on thisland is from a fear. I was terrified being
in the city when everything started about fouryears ago and the world seemingly was looked
like it was going to shit in a hand basket.Everything was falling apart and people were
all of a sudden, people who were best friendsnow hated each other because they were on opposing

(31:22):
sides of opinions of what they're going to doand whether they're going to wear this or they're
not going to wear that or they're going to getthis or they're not going to get it. And all
of a sudden, friendships were falling apart.Neighbours were screaming at each other over
the fence who two weeks earlier were havinga cup of tea together in their backyard and
having a conversation. When all of that kindof unraveled.

(31:45):
I went into a deeper panic. My panic attackskicked up a notch, Jesus. Talk about when you
already feel afraid in the world, when you alreadyfeel afraid of people, when you already feel
afraid of your physical body, this is beforeany of this happened. To then have like this
animosity that wasn't just locally, it was worldwide.It was the entire world was reacting out of

(32:12):
fear. When you have that and you can see thatand you realize, hang on a minute, I have no
control over what anyone else can do. I canreally see that every single person on this
planet is now reacting out of fear, but a veryobvious fear that may have previously been

(32:33):
pushed back. It just makes you feel even morescared because people become unpredictable
and they did. They became extremely unpredictable.And for me, my response when I've been in that
fear space is to always run, is to always goand disappear into my cave. I don't feel safe.

(32:55):
I can't handle how I feel on the inside andI can't handle how everybody is reacting on
the outside, so I will run away. And that'show I handle it. That's why we're on 140 acres
in the middle of nowhere, because I needed torun away. And it has been. Equally the best
and worst decision that I have made. It wasthe worst because it really impacted my daughter.

(33:20):
It means that she's eight now and for the lasttwo years that we've lived here, she hasn't
really had anyone to play with. Like these primeyears in her childhood and she has missed out
on playing with other kids because there's noone here for her to play with. But on the other
hand, it's also been the best decision thatI made. Because it means that when I walk outside

(33:43):
and I need quiet time and my nervous systemfeels utterly fried, I can go and stand outside
and close my eyes and hear nothing. Becausethere's nothing here. There's nothing but birds.
There's no human noise. And most times of theday I can go out and there's zero human noise.
On the odd time that there might be a planeflying overhead or next door might be on their

(34:04):
MOA, but that's like once a week. And so ithas been really healing for me to be here,
but it's been really hard for my daughter. Butthen if I'd stayed in the city, would I have,
would I have been, because the second we arrivedhere, the panic attacks almost stopped. Because

(34:27):
I was able within the first couple of weeks,I was able to actually do what I was trying
to do in the city to calm them all down. Andit was getting... My panic attacks were getting
better and better and better and better. Butthen when I came here, it enabled me to really
focus on hearing more about the panic attacks,hearing more about the trauma, feeling at more,

(34:52):
um, which was harder for me to do in the city.Because we, there's just too much noise and
there was too much crazy and there was too muchchaos. It seems interesting you saying that
because but you have what I would probably sayis a bit of parent guilt in terms of you wish

(35:15):
you could do more and have more for your childas I think we all do as parents, but then you
have to weigh it up. Is it worth being in thecity where you would be completely turned up
in terms of anxiety and just on just, you'dbeen high strong. You would have just been,

(35:42):
I don't know, there's voices in my head, there'svoices outside, there's noise, there's pollution,
there's a whole heap of stuff going on and yourdaughter's making friends and there's relationships,
like platonic relationships and so forth. Youdidn't gotta try and make friends with their
parents and it's just, oh, but she gets to makethese connections but I'm not the mom that

(36:03):
I want to be for her because of the situationI've put myself in. Exactly. That's one option.
Or we can go out middle of nowhere. I can regulatemyself a lot better. I can be the better version
of a parent to my child, but my child then doesn'thave those relationships that other people

(36:27):
may have at that age. Which one is better? Andultimately you can only make that decision
yourself. Personally. I know which one I thinkis a better option, but that's my opinion.
And I commend you. I commend you for takingthe bold step to do what you did for yourself,

(36:48):
which then helped you to be a better versionof a person for your daughter. Because it sounds
like it was very, very difficult. I was a terribleparent with her when I was in the city. I was
not a good... I was not as good of a parentas I am now because I was having panic attacks

(37:10):
all the time and I wasn't sleeping at night.I would wake up in the middle of the night
in the middle of a panic attack, a full blownpanic attack, absolutely terrified. I was lucky
if I was having two to three hours of sleepat night. There was no quiet anywhere. So where
some people will sit in meditation and they'llbe able to go and quiet their brain and then

(37:31):
they can kind of tune out the noise. There wasnone of that for me. If I went inside, it was
loud. It's like somebody gave these voices inmy head a megaphone and said, make sure you're
as loud as you possibly can be because she needsthe noise. And then I'd go outside and there'd
just be noise. The cars never stopped. The neighborsnever stopped. The dogs never stopped. Like

(37:56):
nothing ever. It was never quiet, ever. Therewas no, there was never any silence. And for
me to find that silence, I'd have to get inthe car and drive somewhere. But that driving
would be an hour, an hour and a half. But Iwas struggling getting in the car and driving
because of the panic attacks. So it was, well,we either stay in the city so my daughter can

(38:19):
have her social needs met, but I am going tobe a mess 95% of the day. And for me to take
her somewhere was a challenge. It was hard forme to get in the car and drive. And then, because
then I'd have to talk to people. And then allthe conversations were about exactly the same
thing. And I would say to people, what did wetalk about before this? Like, did we even have

(38:43):
conversations before this happened? Like, whatdid we talk about? Why is this all of a sudden,
all anybody is ever talking about? And it waseverywhere. And it was just in your face and
some places we weren't allowed into. And therewere places where I went, where I would get
abused. from just random strangers would walkup and start yelling at me. And I'm like, dude,

(39:06):
just do your own thing. And none of that, noneof that was healthy for me. None of that was
healthy for my daughter to see. And I was justgetting lost. I was lost in the noise. And
I was lost in the world of social media andYouTube and just constantly trying. And this

(39:30):
is also where the addiction comes in, right?Because even though there is an addiction to
the hit that I get from restricting, becausethat is an addiction, there's also the addiction
to social media. There's the addiction to YouTube.There's the addiction to distractions. There's
the addiction to, well, if I stay here, thenthe noise, the noise is a distraction, the
noise. And that at some point I just got toa point where I went, the noise is no longer

(39:55):
distracting me from my hell. It is my hell.And it never stopped. And so coming up here,
um, and being on the land and I have made thedecision now to sell and go back down south.
We're not going into the city. We are stillgoing to be on land. I'm going to be within

(40:18):
half an hour of the city so we can drive andbe closer to her friends as opposed to where
we are, where we are six hours away from herfriends. It's going to be. and it's gonna be
a smaller block of land. It won't be 140 acres,it will be like 10 acres. So it'll be different.

(40:38):
But I really, really get that I needed to dothis for me. And it takes a lot where, everybody
knows this saying, when you're on a plane andthey drop their face mask down and they say,
put it on yourself first and then put it onyour child. Because otherwise, If you are not

(41:02):
taking care of you, your kid is gonna suffer,cause you're not gonna make it. And that's
really where I was at. I was at this point whereI realized, if I don't do something for me,
I'm not gonna make it. I can't live like this.I felt like I was walking down the path of

(41:22):
a heart attack or a nervous breakdown or something,and I just went, I can't live like this. And
so then we came here, but I can tell you thatdoesn't all of a sudden mean that everything
magically turned into rainbows, unicorns andfairy dust. And then all of a sudden, all of
those feelings went away. They got amplifiedbecause now I have no noise around me. So there's

(41:49):
no noise distracting me. We have no friends.So there's no one to go out and see to distract
myself by. we are in the middle of nowhere onland. So what do I do? And it was such an adjustment
because the voices in my head got louder. Thepunishing voice got louder because now all

(42:16):
of a sudden, not only am I punishing myselffor everything that I did in my past and then
punishing myself just purely for existing. Inow get the added bonus of punishing myself
because I'm a terrible parent because I broughtmy child out to 140 acres in the middle of
nowhere and now she has no friends.
It didn't magically make it all go away. Itactually made it worse for a long time because

(42:43):
there was nothing I could do to stop the feelings.At least in the city, there's shit to do. You
can go to cafes or restaurants or I could takemy daughter out to parks and play with lots
of kids and have lots of conversations and justconstantly have conversations with people and
never really sit in how I feel about myself.because I don't have to, I can just go and

(43:08):
distract myself. But up here, none of that existed.It wasn't here. So now all of a sudden, I'm
here in the middle of nowhere on 140 acres withno noise around me and I was feeling and hearing
everything on the inside. Everything. How didyou navigate your childhood and early adulthood

(43:36):
if you kept having these loud, unbearable voicestelling you how rubbish you are, how unworthy
you are? Because that sounds like it would hindera lot of the relationships you would have had
in life. It would have... put a massive downon any form of ambitions you had in terms of

(43:57):
what you felt was appropriate for you. Oh, Iwanna be this, but you're not good enough.
Oh, I wanna do that, but why? What can you contribute?You know, if you can just sit there and you
have these voice just talking down at you, thenI imagine when you're trying to progress in
your life, there's gonna be, again, great ifI'm wrong, it's gonna feel that they're holding

(44:20):
you back. So how did you manage to have a life,have relationships. I didn't, I failed at everything.
Like I failed at everything. I left school whenI was in year 12, so it's the final year. I
left school about six months before the finalexams. My friends at school, my three best

(44:47):
friends in high school became my enemies, theybecame my bullies. I had 10. terrible relationships
with men who were really emotionally abusive.
Anytime I tried to strive at something, it wouldfail. I did a nutrition course and I got to

(45:12):
the last six months and my dad had died. Andit was the end of term and we were having exams
and my dad had just died like the week before.And I went to sit the exam and I couldn't do
it. I ran out of the room. So then I had todo a makeup, but I didn't know any of the information
and the makeup exam. And I only had three subjectsleft to finish this four-year course. And I

(45:41):
walked out of the exam and I dropped out ofthe course. That is my pattern. I didn't achieve
anything at all. I didn't succeed. at anything.I am very well known in my family as being
just the one that fails at everything, has badrelationships, doesn't hold down a job, doesn't

(46:05):
succeed at anything, doesn't achieve anything.It basically ruined my entire life.

(46:26):
And it takes a lot to come back from all ofthat failure and to look back and go, okay,
but does that have to be who I am now? Doesthat mean I have to fail now? And I get it,
there's a really deep part of me that goes,but you failed so much. So, and I do have a

(46:51):
very strong voice that says, why bother whenyou know you're gonna fail? And that is the
epitome for those of us who were raised thisway who, who just never achieved. I failed
all my classes in school, but when I did dowell, it wasn't acknowledged. It wasn't praised.

(47:11):
It was just kind of ignored. I remember, andit's these, it's these tiny little things that
I'm sharing, these tiny little stories, becausethese are the things that actually really define
us. I remember my stepbrother, They were encouraginghim to study, so he studied and he got straight
A's one year in one of his classes, so he gota brand new stereo system. I got straight A's

(47:33):
in class and I didn't even get a good job. Andit's these moments where you sit back and you
go, damn, like how come he gets something amazing,but I get nothing at all? And these went...
13, 14, 15, 16, this is how you think. You don'tlook at it and go, oh well, that's okay, he

(47:58):
probably needed it, he probably needed the encouragement.We're not rationalizing and coming up with
some logical explanation back then, all you'redoing is seeing the reality is he did well
and got something, I did well and got nothing.And these are the stories that we carry through

(48:18):
into our adulthood. And there are some of usin the world that sit back and go, how, I'm
in my forties. And I go, how did this, how isthis my life? How did I end up here when my
sibling is highly successful, has won gold medalsall around the world, is a top athlete, highly

(48:44):
successful career, highly successful financially,yet we had the same parents. Like how does
that relate? But when I go back and have a look,it's like, well, because I was the one that
they blamed. I was the one that was held responsiblefor my mom's drinking. I was the one that was
held responsible for my sibling being who theyare. I was the one that. I was the one that

(49:10):
was a terrible child. And my dad said that tome on more than one occasion when I would question
why things were the way they were. He'd say,well, what do you expect? You are a terrible
child. This is why when I asked him about, Iwas talking to him about mom drinking and I
told him about mom's drinking and his responsewas, well, you're a terrible daughter. So of

(49:32):
course she drinks. I'm like. Damn, when I lookback at that and I go, geez, you are not taking
on any stellar parenting roles when you mademy mother's drinking about me and you made
it my fault because I was a terrible child.And I look back and I think I was not a terrible

(49:53):
child. I was actually extremely kind and extremelythoughtful and extremely giving and extremely
happy. None of you like that about me. becauseI wasn't miserable. And I didn't, I wasn't
forcing myself into a box that you all deemedimportant. So the box for my family is you

(50:15):
have a job, you have a relationship, you getmarried, you have a house, you have a car,
you have life insurance and car insurance andhealth insurance, and then you retire and then
you die. Like that's the normal, that's whatthey strive for in their life. I always wanted
more and never fitted into that box. And becauseI never fitted into that box, I was the one
that was wrong. I was the one that was broken.You said something that made me smile. And

(50:45):
that was when you identified that you was nota bad child. Yeah. How did you arrive to that
point where you knew that what was said wasnot truth? I spend a lot of time sitting and
looking at the voices that were coming up andlooking at the stories that were coming up

(51:08):
around my childhood. and looking at the responsesthat my family had towards me. And when I became
aware that I was punished whether I was goodor bad, it didn't matter. It was just my pure
existence. And I have lots of stories whereI got accused of stealing my sibling's boyfriend

(51:30):
because he came over for dinner and I was sittingon the table, I was sitting next to him and
I was turning and having a conversation withhim. To me... I was being kind, I was being
nice, I was being thoughtful, I was being engaging,I was just being me, I was being happy, I was
being delightful, I was being all of these things.From their perspective, I'm trying to steal

(51:54):
the boyfriend. And when I look back at that,I have a lot of these little stories where
I can really say, hang on a minute, I was justbeing me, and I was being nice. you guys are
all fucked up in the head because you all decidedthat me being me and me being nice and kind

(52:17):
and happy and joyful was me trying to stealthis guy. So when I took a step back and I
really went into that rational, logical exampleof life, I was not a bad kid. I was not a terrible
kid. I was happy. I was fun. I was joyful. Iwas all of these things. But you guys didn't

(52:44):
want me to be any of that. You guys didn't wantme to be fun and happy. You wanted me to be
sad and miserable because you were all sad andmiserable. My dad didn't like his job. My dad
didn't like his life. My mum admitted to methat she didn't like her life. Her life was
hard. It was brutal for her.

(53:09):
And there's no way that sad, unhappy, miserablehuman beings can raise happy children. It just,
it doesn't, it doesn't happen. Misery likescompany. Yeah. And I, so my daughter had some
kids that were mean to her a couple of weeksago. And then she came home and we were talking

(53:30):
about it. And then I said something to her andshe was mean to me. And in that moment, I had
a choice. I could be mean back. And I couldsay, don't talk to me like that, go to your
room. Not that I would ever say that to my kid,but if I was a normal parent, that's what I
would say. Don't talk to me like that, go toyour room. And I would be mean back, but I
didn't. What I did was opened up my arms andI gave her a hug and told her that I loved

(53:55):
her. Because I really understand meanness travels.And it goes. from one person to the next person,
to the next person, to the next person, untilsomeone makes a different choice. And that's
what I do now. I make a different choice. Imake a different choice with myself. Instead
of choosing meanness, I choose kindness. AndI could have been mean to her. I could have

(54:20):
told her off. She talked back to me in a normalparent's perspective, she talked back to me.
She was rude, she was insolent, she was whateveryou wanna say, and she should have been punished.
In my world, she was hurting, kids had beenmean to her, she was probably feeling scared,
she was probably feeling alone, and she needslove, and she needs kindness, and she needs

(54:45):
compassion, and she needs a parent that is goingto support her through that pain, not punish
her for it. And that is also what I've learned,that I guess if I took a very big step back,
like if I took a huge leap back and went, Whatis the gift that my life has given me? It's
been kindness. It's understanding that hurtpeople hurt people, meanness travels and kindness

(55:09):
stops it. Kindness is the end. And if I makethe choice to choose kindness over meanness
as often as possible, then that's gonna endthe meanness. And that is partly why my daughter
is so bloody delightful. She's so lovely. Sheis so kind. She's so accepting, she's so open.

(55:32):
She is, she really gets affected by kids thatsay mean things to her because I haven't normalized
it. I never mean to her. I always choose kindness,even in moments where I am struggling and she
has done something that is probably worthy ofbeing punished. My idea of punishing her is

(55:54):
to say, honey, I really feel hurt at the moment.I'm not hurt by you, I'm hurt by your behaviour.
And I've always made sure that there's thatdifferentiation between there is her, who I
love and I think is amazing, and then thereis her behaviour. And there is a difference,

(56:14):
they are separate things. They are not one thing.But for my upbringing, me and my behaviour,
they were the same thing. They were joined together,they were glued together. And if I did something
wrong, I did something wrong. In my daughter'sworld, if she does something wrong, it's her
behaviour, not her. And it's such a differentway of communicating and the gift that my family

(56:40):
has given me by being the way they are, by being.And honestly, I come from such a strong place
of compassion because their lives were hard.They didn't have resources like we have now.
They didn't have support like we did now whenmy mum lost her son. She didn't have the support
that she has now. When she lost her son, hewas just taken away. The family didn't even

(57:03):
come to support her. There was no funeral. Therewas no, there's no grave site. There's nothing.
No one knows where his body is. No one, shejust went back to work because that's what
was expected back then. There was no support.So she was a very, very hurt human being who
was struggling through life. She had been bulliedher whole life. She had been traumatized her

(57:28):
whole life. My grandpa was an alcoholic andhe was a mean bastard. He was grumpy. I remember
just being scared of him because he was alwaysso mean. My grandma was stoic and controlling
and manipulative and mean sometimes. She hada mean streak that I saw on more than one occasion.

(57:52):
And then I look at my mom's life and I think,how could you be anything other than what you
were? because you went through so much painand you didn't know that kindness was an option.
But then here you are coming from that and youstill come out different. But it's different
now. It's a different time. The veil betweenThe veil between worlds, between non-physical

(58:19):
and physical world is a lot thinner than whatit used to be. It used to be really dense.
When I first started this work, when I firststarted shadow work or inner child work or
whatever you wanna call it, mindset work, whateveryou wanna call it, the veil was thick, man.
There was no one doing this work. There wasno one having these conversations 10 years
ago. It's only been within the last 10 yearsthat people are actually authentically sharing

(58:43):
their shit. that didn't exist when I first started.I used to have an online TV show and I was
one of two people that had an online TV show.It didn't exist back then. But now you get
on YouTube and you put in shadow work or you'reputting in a child work or you're putting CPTSD
or you're putting, how do I, how do I deal withthe voices in my head? How do I deal with the

(59:07):
hurt and the pain? You're going to find a videothat gives you a tool to make you feel better
about yourself. That shit didn't exist. Nowyou can hire coaches. Now you can go and find
people that have been through trauma. I mean,look at my podcast. My entire podcast has been
having conversations with people who have beenthrough trauma and are on the other side. That

(59:28):
did not exist when my mom went through this.My podcast has only been on air for nine months.
People weren't having these conversations withme prior to nine months ago. You know, this
stuff isn't, people think this has been aroundforever. It's like, no, man, this stuff has

(59:49):
only been around within the last five to 10years, maybe a little bit longer. But I can
tell you when I opened door at 30, no one wasdoing this work. No one was doing shadow work.
It wasn't the thing. Appreciate that. So I'llanswer this question. You've already summarized
how you feel staking a step back. And I appreciateyou so much for the way you articulate because

(01:00:16):
I've taken so much from that. If you was togo back based on the journey you've just shared.
When would have been the darkest, hardest timefor you where your handbrake was all the way
up and you was like, I'm not going anywhere,I'm staying put. When was that? And if you

(01:00:44):
could go back in time, everything as it is rightnow in your life will remain intact, your family,
your situation, all that remains intact. nothinggets changed here. But if you could go back
to that time when the handbrake was pulled allthe way up, what would you say to yourself
to encourage you to just say, don't stay here,put the handbrake down and keep going. Honestly,

(01:01:11):
I don't think there has been one dark moment.There hasn't been one defining moment that
I got stuck in. There has been moment aftermoment after moment after moment after moment
after moment. I can name them all. I know thedefining moments in my life where I just realised

(01:01:38):
I wasn't like it was not okay. It was not okay.It was not okay. Life was not okay. I was not
okay. There have been so many moments. It'snot just one. There's not just one where the
handbrake came on. It's like something happenedand I put the foot on the brake a little bit,
and then something happened and the brake wenton a little bit more. Then something happened,

(01:02:00):
the brake went on a little bit more, and thena little bit more, and then a little bit more,
and then a little bit more until the brake wasso far down in the ground, it just couldn't
come back. Does that make sense? Yep. What wouldyou say to yourself? The different times, and
I'll let you completely pick this because it'sall about you here. What would you have wanted

(01:02:25):
to hear from someone to help you know that whatyou're doing isn't wrong? Your existence isn't
wrong. Who would that have been? What wouldyou have said to yourself to just help you
feel less alone? Exactly what I say to myselfnow. to help all of those parts inside of me

(01:02:46):
that are so sad and so hurt and so disheveledby life. I go back and I am where I am now
and I'm able to see them and feel them and hearthem but not have them define me anymore because
of this one thing that I do which is I go backwhen I have a feeling and I see it and I say

(01:03:08):
I see you, I hear you, I love you and I thankyou.
and then I breathe.

(01:03:34):
I felt like if I could just hug you right now,I really would. That was just, it was just
so, yeah, it was that. So just to clarify, ifyou're not calling that entire journey that
you've gone through, if you're not calling itL, if you're not calling it a loss, what are

(01:03:55):
you calling it? I think I'm calling it life.life with all its uncertainties, trials and
tribulations, its ups, its downs, its left,its right, its diversions. It's just, it is
what it is. It is what it is. And the thingI'm, I think I'm really getting to understand

(01:04:17):
is that something happens and our feelings eitherget to define us or help us grow, help us change,
help us evolve, help us expand. because thefeelings hurt, but the more you sit in those
feelings, the more you feel the feelings, themore you love that part of you that has that

(01:04:40):
feeling, the less impactful it is, the lessimpactful the pain is. And I can sit here and
I can feel a feeling and say, I hear you, Ifeel you, I see you, I love you, whatever it
was. I sit, I don't remember what I said now.You know what I said. I see you, I hear you,
I love you, I thank you. I can say that andthat feeling will just dissipate. Any child

(01:05:06):
or children, all they want is to be heard. Theywanna be seen, they wanna be loved. They wanna
be appreciated and they wanna be validated.And that is no different to all of these teeny
tiny little parts inside of me that have gonethrough something, that jump up if something
happens and they go, oh my God, because I seeevery feeling I have. Every painful feeling

(01:05:31):
I have as this little part inside of me that'sjumping up going, oh my God, I look at it,
I see it, I hear it, I validate it. I love itfor the fact that it's created this feeling
inside of me because it is part of me. And therewas a time when I would punish it. There was

(01:05:51):
a time when I was so deeply embedded in thepunishment story that if I had a bad feeling,
I would punish myself. Oh, you shouldn't havethat feeling. That's not right. That's wrong.
Especially in the law of attraction mindsetworld, don't have a bad feeling. Focus on good
thoughts, focus on good feelings, focus on this,focus on your affirmations, focus on your mantras.
All the while I'm punishing myself for the badfeeling that I'm having. And then all that

(01:06:14):
did was just amplify the fear and the pain.Hence the panic attacks and going through my
own special world of hell was because I wasconstantly punishing myself for every bad feeling
that I had. Constantly so I would punish myselffor the feeling but then I would punish myself
for punishing myself for the feeling and thenI would punish myself for punishing myself

(01:06:36):
for punishing myself for the feeling and likeit was this ridiculous endless cycle of just
punishment and it wasn't until I realized oneday I can tell you the day I took the handbrake
off. I Was in the lounge room and I just hadanother person in my world punished me for
something. That was not my fault And I walkedaround and I was just stomping around the house

(01:07:01):
going, why is she punishing me for this? Thisisn't even my fault. What is going on? Why
do I keep attracting people that keep punishingme? The lady in the post office punished me
the week before this person, like it was justa series of punishing people just constantly
punishing me for all sorts of weird shit overmy life. And I just stopped dead in my tracks
and I heard this voice in my head say, whenare you going to stop punishing yourself? And

(01:07:27):
I say, what? Well, you're punishing yourself.If you stop punishing yourself, then they can't
punish you anymore, because it doesn't exist.They can do whatever they want, but while you
keep punishing yourself, that they can punishyou because punishment exists. Stop punishing
yourself. And it just, I can't even describethe feeling that I had in that next moment

(01:07:54):
where I just went, Every single person in mylife can punish me because I am punishing me.
and they can punish me because they might saysomething to punish me, but I take it on and
I own it. And then I punish myself for the thingthat they want me to be punished for. And I

(01:08:18):
say, wow, damn. So if I stop punishing myself,then if they try and punish me, I can look
at them and go, yeah, I don't need that. Goodluck with that. Like you can, I hope you enjoy
your punishment, but that's not about me. Andnow, and you're not going to hold it. Yeah.

(01:08:38):
Now it just bounces off me. It's like, yeah,whatever. Good luck with that. Have fun. You're
not accepted it returned to sender returnedto sender. That is what it is. Exactly. But
I couldn't do that before. That was the momentI took the handbrake off and I stopped punishing
myself from that moment. And that, that is whenlife changed that, and that only happened.

(01:09:01):
Maybe five months ago. five, six months ago,that is when life changed for me. That is when
I all of a sudden started to have feelings otherthan the feeling that had been with me for
the last 30 something years of my life. Allof a sudden it was like, wait, what is this?

(01:09:22):
What is this? I had absolutely no idea whatthe feeling was, but it wasn't that anymore.
And that feeling that I woke up with, that feeling.That feeling that I, that worthless sack of
shit feeling that I woke up with in the morningthat I went about with my day and I went to
sleep with that woke me up in the middle ofthe night in panic attacks. Haven't had it

(01:09:46):
since. Fantastic. I've recently come up withthis affirmation, if you want to call it. I
don't know if it is, but there's different phrasethat come up every night again with me and
I kind of hold on to them for whatever seasonI'm going through. And it was when you smile

(01:10:06):
in adversity, you change your narrative. Andit just seems that eventually through all that
you went through, that moment hit you whereit was just a matter of, yeah, it's delivered
to the wrong address. This is not for me. That'snot for me either. I don't know what you think

(01:10:28):
I am. I'm at the sorting office. Don't sendme your mail. You just keep it and you go redeliver
it to whomever you feel it's for. More likelyit's for yourself, don't give me your bills.
And hearing what you've been through, and don'tget it wrong, I'm fully aware this is like
the tip of the iceberg. But you've been veryeloquent in what you said, you've been very

(01:10:52):
detailed, very descriptive in what you said,how you've come across, and I just feel so
many feelings about it. I will tell you personallywhat my thought was and did you make the right
decision? And it's not up to me, but this ismy personal take on it. I feel you had made
the right decision because by you being theperson you need to be for your child is more

(01:11:19):
important than trying to have the external thingssorted out. Because if they're coming home
to a house that's gonna be traumatic to them,no matter what you're giving them. you're taking
away when they go home. You're taking away whenyou're being irrational and reacting in a way
that isn't supportive of the person that she'strying to grow into be, or she will become.

(01:11:44):
So I just love you, how you've articulated yourself.You've helped me to consider how and what I
say to my eldest because my youngest are notthere yet, but still have, you know, be mindful
of my actions and stuff like that. But you'vepushed through things that have been so, so

(01:12:10):
heavy and you've identified that you are notthe problem, that you, your existence is a
gift, that you have a place in this world. Andwith the power of the internet, you've found
other people I'd like to believe that are similarand are willing to share because prior to these

(01:12:32):
times, they didn't have access to this stuff.Now we do. We meet people across all over the
place, like you and I right now. And I justlove it. I'm just so here for it. I am so grateful
for you. And I think you are a fantastic Cubanpeon. I'm so glad for your daughter. I am sorry

(01:12:54):
for the things you've had to endure, but I amnot sorry for the person it shaped you to become
today. Sometimes you just gotta affirm it andjust go.
this is gonna be a bumpy ride and just acceptit. And rather than get upset about it is what

(01:13:15):
it is and you do something that I kind of encouragepeople to do. I said, I explore those feelings.
I sit in those feelings because when peoplesay, oh, but what if this happens? Yeah, okay,
let's talk about it. Oh, well, this will happen.Okay, keep going. And then what? And this will
happen. And then what? Well, I'll start again,won't it? Okay, was that bad? It's no different
to when I was younger and I'd watch horror movies.Why watch horror movies? It's the dubbest thing

(01:13:39):
ever. There's no real reason to watch a horrormovie, but you do. And then you wanna go to
the fridge, but you're petrified because ofthe shadow that's moving. If you've got a light
and shined it on it, what would be an issue?You can see there's nothing there, but because
you're not exploring it, your mind's going,yeah, it's gonna jump out and kill you. Yeah,

(01:13:59):
it's just gonna stab your leg. Yeah, it's gonnagrab your leg. Yeah, it's gonna... There's
nothing there. Let's get a light flash on it.And that's why I feel like we've exploring
the feelings. If I don't explore the feelings,I'm assuming what they're gonna be. I'm assuming
it's gonna cripple me. I'm gonna, well, it doescripple me. It cripples me in fear, because
I'm living in fear. I'm not living the lifeI want to live. I'm not being ambitious. I

(01:14:21):
am not trying to find out where I fit in thisworld. I am just. too scared to proceed in
life because I'm worried of what other peoplethink about me. And let's be fair, not everyone,
everyone doesn't know what kind of other people.So how can I accept their label they're gonna
put on me? Especially if it's an unkind one.If it's a kind one, that's cool. That's one

(01:14:42):
of my characteristics. But if it's an unkindone, you might wanna reconsider that one. I'm
not willing to accept that return to sender.But I love you for your attitude, what you've
gone through. how you've handled yourself, eventhough it may have sometimes manifested itself
in a way that's not how other people might wantto. Yeah, I didn't handle myself very well.
But you still arrive to a place where you aregiving back, you are allowing people a space

(01:15:09):
to talk about their traumatic experience, beable to connect to other people and understand
that just because the route you took to getto your destination was a bit bumpy. doesn't
necessarily mean it was the wrong route to take.It is what it is sometimes and I just think
you're a beautiful human being for it. And I'mjust so grateful for your existence and all

(01:15:34):
that you do. And yeah, I'm running out of wordsand I'm not like eloquent right now, sorry.
But what I'd like you to do. I appreciate allof that. And I wanna add one thing before you
finish up which was. Go for it. When you realizethat your internal world is vastly more important
than your external world, your entire life hasthe potential to change. And that is what I'm

(01:15:58):
teaching my daughter, is that her internal worldis vastly more important than the external
world. And when you raise kids that know that,when they become adults and their focus is
about their internal world, how do I feel? AndI've been doing, you said your youngest was
too young for this. I just want to let you knowI started doing this with my daughter from
the day she could understand what I said. Ihave been saying to her since she was about

(01:16:23):
one and a half, I love you. I might not loveyour behaviour, I love you. You and your behaviour,
two different things. And I've also been teachingher about the mean voice and the angel, we
call it the mean voice and the angel voice.That there are two voices in her head, the
mean voice and the angel voice. The angel voiceis that gift. that guides her in amazing ways.

(01:16:47):
And the mean voice is that part of her thatwants to kind of make her feel like a worthless
sack of shit on a daily basis. And she getsto choose which one she listens to. And sometimes
she'll listen to the mean voice and then she'llcome out and she'll say, oh, I just did something.
And I say, which voice did you listen to? Andshe said, the mean one. I said, how did that
go for you? She goes, you know, well, and she'sdone it a lot. But she's so aware. She's eight

(01:17:11):
and she is aware. that she has a mean voiceand she has an angel voice. And there are times
where she chooses the angel voice and she'llsay, I made the angel voice choice and oh my
God, it was amazing. There is no time that istoo early to start teaching your kids about
the internal world. That doesn't exist. Thatis some ridiculous myth that someone decided

(01:17:32):
kids don't have the ability to handle it. That'sbullshit. they have more ability to handle
it as a kid because they're still more rapidlyconnected to their non-physical self because
they've only just come out from the non-physicalself. We, in our 30s and 40s and 50s and 60s,
we're the ones that have a bigger issue connectingto that stuff and understanding it than they

(01:17:58):
do because we're further away from it. And weprobably live most of our lives disconnected
from it. So I would say, don't assume that yourkids aren't old enough. Unless they're like
three months old and they have zero consciousnessbecause they just a bundle of fluff, but even
so it still comes down to you realize that yourkids are, they're three months old. I have

(01:18:22):
people say, I'll put my kid, I'm in some parentinggroups and they'll say, I'm trying to get my
baby to sleep all night and it just won't andit's six months old and they won't leave me
alone and my response is, so this child hasbeen on this earth for six months and what
you want it to go out and get a job? Like it'ssix months old, of course it's attached to
you, of course it doesn't want to sleep on itsown, of course it wants to see you all the

(01:18:45):
time, it's only been on this planet for sixmonths! You've been here for how many years
do you feel safe? Do you understand it? Do youfeel great? Do you feel like life is fantastic?
How do you think a three month old or a sixmonth old or an eight month old feels? Even
when I look at my daughter at eight, I oftensay she'll come out and she'll say that she

(01:19:07):
did the other day. God, she was so funny. Shewas bored in the bedroom and she had an ink
pad. And so she used the ink pad to color herhair blue. And she was so happy. She came out,
she called me in actually. She said, mama, I'vegot a surprise for you. And I went, okay, I
know where this is going. I know what that means.So she's done something. And I walked in and

(01:19:28):
I just looked at her and I just went, okay.She said, my hair's blue. I said, yeah, I know,
I can see it. Did you get a bit bored? She goes,I really did. I went, okay, are you happy with
it? Yep, okay, that's all that matters. As longas you're happy with it. She said, oh, but
I wanted to let you know I didn't do it on thebed, I did it on the floor. but I can't guarantee
that there isn't ink on the floor. And I justlooked at her and I said, thank you very much

(01:19:52):
for being so considerate to not do it on thebed and do it on the floor. I had a choice,
I could have punished her for using the inkon her hair and go, oh my God, go wash that
out, blah, being an angry, bitter, resentful,mean parent. Or I could have appreciated the
fact that she did it on the floor and not onthe bed. She got stuff on the floor, but so
what, who cares? True. Like it's just this completedifferent. Kids are kids. She does eight-year-old

(01:20:18):
things when she was six. She did six-year-oldthings. That to my 47-year-old is like, oh
God, do you have to be such a pain in the ass?But to that other part of me that goes, she's
eight. There's nothing that she's doing thatisn't normal for an eight-year-old. And when
you come at it from that perspective and youunderstand that your internal world is more

(01:20:39):
important than your external world. And allof a sudden, when you start to feel angry,
you'll start to go, Oh, hang on a minute. I'mfeeling the feeling that I don't like feeling
and I don't actually want to feel this feeling.So what is it in me? What perception do I have
about this situation? What judgment have I madeabout this? Is it really wrong? Is it really
bad? She hasn't killed anyone. She hasn't, shehasn't destroyed the house is still standing.

(01:21:04):
She hasn't burnt it down. Does it really matterif she draws on a wall or does it really matter
if she gets paint on the floor? Does it reallymatter if she's got ink in her hair or is it
the fact that she had fun doing it more important?Because I want her to stay in that good feeling
place, not in the place of punishing herselffor doing things that made her feel good. Thanks,

(01:21:26):
I agree with that. So for the next two minutes,if you can share, anything can, everything
you've got going. Have I said enough? Well,I'll give you two more minutes here, you know?
Oh, thank you. Please share anything and everythingyou've got going on and where people can find
you, because I'm sure people are going to bevery interested to learn more about you, or

(01:21:48):
maybe check out more of your content. So thereare probably two best places to go. One would
be the website, which is lovecreatesfreedom.com,which will have whatever's going on in my world
at the time. I'm running a free challenge. I'mrunning a free challenge for people with panic
attacks and taking them through the exact techniquethat I used. to end my panic attacks, to help

(01:22:11):
people, just to help people see that there isanother way, there's another life. You don't
have to live with panic attacks. That worksreally well. And anytime I'd ever had one come
up, I did this and I was like, and I've takenclients through it and it's done the same thing
for them. They're living their lives free frompanic attacks. So I'm sharing that. And the

(01:22:36):
second one is probably my podcast, which ison YouTube, which I think if you put in Love
Creates Freedom, it comes up. Because if youput in Kayleigh Grace, it doesn't come up.
So I think if you put in Love Creates Freedom,my podcast comes up on YouTube. So greatly
appreciate you coming on and sharing all thatyou have. As I said, I can't gush about you

(01:22:58):
anymore than I already have, and I'm not gonnakeep doing it, because you can just keep. Listen
to the episode again and again, that'll workfor me. Um. I appreciate the gush. But I just
think it's always worthwhile giving people theirflowers while they're living rather than their
tombstone. And I just think I again, appreciateyou for coming on and for sharing cause it
has been a long time trying to make this happen.And for a number of reasons, things have or

(01:23:22):
haven't happened and time zones have definitelyplayed a factor in it as well. But we're here
and it was worth it. and I look forward to thisbeing released and hearing how people receive
it because I think if no one else, I know Ithought this conversation was so worth it.
I just appreciate you. I would like to thinka lot of people now have found better insight

(01:23:46):
into some of the struggles that people are having.And yes, someone can look like they got everything
all together, but these are also parts of thebattles that people face. We might think they're
all put together based on how they present themselvesand so forth like that, but their upbringing
can still have an impact on how they conductthemselves or how they perceive themselves

(01:24:08):
or how they interpret what you said or how you'veacted around them. So it's always worthwhile
being considerate about what you say, how yousay things and that potentially how you've
conducted yourself around a person may be misinterpreted.So just try and keep that. communication channel
open just so that if they want to talk to you,you're receptive to it and don't just disregard

(01:24:34):
their feelings that they may have. So thankyou again for jumping on and thank you listeners
for listening. I hope you've enjoyed the conversationas much as I have. I'm starting to plug in
a little bit more. Don't ask me why. No, I knowwhy it's because I actually do a lot of talking
on it. I'm on Instagram a lot more than. anywhereelse. So just come and follow me there every
year podcast. I do exclusive content stuff likethat because I like to think about things and

(01:24:56):
let's share it. But other than that, I hopeyou enjoy the rest of whatever you're doing
and I'll see you next episode. And rememberthere's nothing about a caterpillar that tastes
going to be a butterfly. Look after yourselfand speech in the next one.

(01:25:28):
We out.