EP 61 | Breaking the Silence: Conquering Shame and Finding Liberation feat. Jill Schultz

Jill is our latest guest who opens up about her journey of healing and finding liberation from shame. Here are three interesting topics we covered:

1️⃣ From Darkness to Purpose 2️⃣ Finding Light and Love 3️⃣ Breaking the Barriers of Shame

I applaud Jill for using her experiences to shine a light on such an important topic and if you want to learn more about her journey and find support, be sure to visit her website and check out her book, "Liberated: Releasing the Dark Cloud of Shame."

Follow me on Instagram: @EveryLPodcast for exclusive content and please RATE and REVIEW on the platform you are listening on

More about Jill:

Jill Schultz is a disrupter, serial entrepreneur, author, and motivational speaker. Jill’s mission is to help release people from shame. Her own experience of experimenting with other children at a young age because of her own sexual trauma has led her to speak out on this taboo topic and help anyone who has a secret or has felt shame of any kind to create a life of love, success, and abundance.

Here are some helpful links too:

Book: https://www.jilleschultz.com/book Website: https://www.jilleschultz.com Seven Critical Steps to Heal from Secret: https://unshamed.live/7CriticalStepstoHealfromSecret Uncover your shame worksheet: https://unshamed.live/UncoverYourShame Facebook group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/livingunshamed/ Facebook Page:  https://www.facebook.com/jilleschultz Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/jilleschultz11/ LinkedIn:  https://www.linkedin.com/in/jill-schultz-30413514/

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
Because he said to me, how old were you whenthis was happening? And I said, I was 12 when
it ended. And he said, who do you know that's12 years old? And I thought of my niece. And
he said, do you think she thinks like an adult?Do you think she reasons like an adult? She's
a little girl. You are a little girl.

(00:32):
Welcome ladies and gentlemen, I'm your host,Mack Brown and you're listening to the EveryL
Podcast. Each episode we'll have a differentguest come on and talk about when life hangs
you in L, is it really a loss or is it somethingelse? Because not every L's a loss. So sit
back, relax and do what every guy do to getcomfortable as we get into this. Let's go!

(01:03):
Welcome everyone to another episode of EveryElv Podcast where we have different guests
come on talking about their personal experiencesabout taboo situations or situations close
to their heart. And they talk about how theynavigated it, what support they had, what support
they didn't have, how they handled it, did theylash out, what happened? Because a lot of us

(01:23):
go through things in our life and we think they'reunique to us and no one else is going through
that. That we look at them and they look sparkly,clean, shiny. They're perfect. They got no
blemishes whatsoever. They are Instagram pulsein the flesh. And the reality is, that ain't
us. We got things going on. One of the biggestlie we tell ourselves or tell one another on

(01:43):
a regular basis, I'm fine. Because most of thetime we're not fine, but we just don't feel
comfortable divulging our personal circumstancesto another person. but after a while it can
manifest itself in a way that's not so healthy.So to help combat that, I try and have conversations.
And I say try because not everyone's willingto come on, being completely honest with you,
but I have conversations with people who arewilling to come on and share their personal

(02:06):
experiences of things that they've endured sothat other people can feel less alone. It can
be horrible being amongst a lot of people, butalso feeling lonely. So I'm grateful to each
and every one of my guests and I thank themfor what they share. when they share it and
I've just so excited to get this guest on. It'sbeen a while for me to be able to do this because

(02:28):
certain things have got in the way of makingthis happen, but we're here now. I have an
amazing individual who, what she does is quiteinteresting because I've never come across
a person, well, this close, who's willing tosort of break down barriers and break down
walls in this way. where they see shame as somethingthat needs to be tackled and needs to be exposed

(02:53):
or have a light shone in it because a lot ofpeople are sort of burdened down by it. And
I'm here for that, clearly, that's what thepodcast's all about. But to have this connection
with someone who's doing it, who's got so manyskillsets, it's just tremendous. I am not gonna
rob her of an introduction, so I'm gonna lether do it, but I am grateful for her for what
she does. I'm interested to hear more and learnmore about what she's going to be doing. but

(03:17):
we'll get to that at the end. But everybody,I have Jill, how are you doing? I'm really
good, thank you, how are you? I'm not as goodas you look. Oh, thank you. Too bad for podcasting,
cause I got camera ready today. Well, that'sgood, that's good. Do you mind introducing
yourself in a way that sees fit? And I'll alsoask you to describe yourself only because I'm

(03:42):
mindful I have some guests who are visuallyimpaired and do not know what my guests look
like. And it's just nice for them to understand.So for instance, I'll tell them I'm a tall
black male. My hair looks a bit outgrown inthe moment because I haven't gone to the hairdresser's.
Don't judge me, folks. You know, COVID was athing. I got comfortable with that. So yeah,
how would you describe yourself? Well, I amnot a tall black male. But you sound like one.

(04:07):
I do not. I don't even. Well, okay, so I'llstart with the description. I am... Five, three
and a half. And yes, I own the half becausewhen you're little, you want the half. So I'm
five, three and a half. And I have Auburn hair,I have green eyes, and I am, I live in San

(04:29):
Diego, California, and I am blessed every dayof my life that I get to do what I get to do.
Nice, and what is it that you do? I do lotsof things actually. I'm a serial entrepreneur,
so I have one of those minds that doesn't stop.You do not wanna be inside my head. And I have

(04:50):
four businesses right now, and I'm very luckythat I get to do what I love every single day.
All of the things that I have in my life inthe way of income producing activities I love.
And one of them, I've had an event company for23 years. And I broker restaurants and caterers
to facilitate breakfast and lunch orders goinginto corporate offices and things like that.

(05:15):
And I love, love that business. And then I,I'm in the wine industry, I have a wine business.
And so, Hey, that is sexy and fun. And thenI do vacation rentals. And the newest thing
is my book. And I've just written a book, it'scalled liberated. liberated releasing the dark

(05:35):
cloud of shame. And my new exciting venturein life is just really to share my story, get
on stages, whatever way that I could get mymessage across and create massive traction
with this movement. So whoever hears my storyand wants to get behind what I'm doing, like
I'm really excited about stepping into that.So that is a little bit about me. Happy days,

(06:00):
happy days. Well, wish you every bit of successwith all your endeavors. So for the L you decide
you wish to talk about, you simply put liberated.Now I know from, well, obviously when we've
had a chat and what I've seen of you out andabout, I have a feeling I might know what you're

(06:21):
talking about, but rather than rob you of theopportunity to share, please go back to where
you feel it's appropriate to start and tellme how the word liberated is the thing you
want to talk about. Yeah, okay. I have to setthe stage first because the conversation that
you and I are about to have is not a conversationthat people are having. And it's important

(06:44):
to me that people are safe and protected andit can be a very triggering conversation. So
if at any point you hear what I'm talking aboutand you have a memory, or you are triggered
and you're like, oh my God, that's my story.And it's something that I have to face. I need

(07:04):
for your listeners to know that there's supportout there. There's organizations that you can
anonymously contact like RAINN, R-A-I-N-N, tobe able to be safe and talk to somebody and
just protect themselves. So that being said,I was molested when I was around three or four

(07:25):
years old. And I'm so grateful for the Me Toomovement because I feel like people are able
to talk about sexual trauma way more easilynow than they were five, 10 years ago. And
so, if that's your story, I'm sorry that happenedto you, but my story goes deeper in that because

(07:46):
of what somebody taught me to do, I was thelittle girl who was innocently and curiously
experimenting sexually with other children.And I was in between the ages of seven and
12 when that was happening. And I lived withdebilitating shame for 41 years thinking that

(08:08):
I was the only little girl who ever did anythinglike that. And as I've stepped in and surrendered
to, stepping into my purpose, and the more thatI share my story, the more that I know and
hear people say me too, that they also werechildren that acted out. And It's just way
more common than anybody can imagine and nobody'stalking about it. So the liberated part of

(08:35):
the story is I've done a lot of work. I've donea lot of I've done therapy. I've done transformational
work. I've done a lot of things to really forgivemyself and love myself. And the book is called
liberated releasing the dark cloud of shamebecause after doing all that healing like Now
I have this blank canvas of a beautiful lifethat I get to create. And I really want people

(09:01):
to understand that, you know, getting it outof your body and saying it out loud and talking
to somebody and sharing the story. The otherside is magic. Like it is so beautiful on the
other side of healing. So that's a little bitabout why you and I are here today. Yeah, that

(09:21):
sounds Sounds a lot. It sounds a lot to sortof wrap your head around to think how, why,
when, and I guess obviously these are questionsI would like for you to answer if possible,
because I don't want to then answer for you.It's a case of is it appropriate to ask those

(09:43):
questions? And then is there a safe space foryou to then answer those questions or to say
what's in your mind? So when is it that youbecame aware that you were molested. Because
I'm sure at a certain point in time, it wasjust a norm. You didn't know any different,
but eventually you realized, hang about, thisisn't what everyone does? No? Oh, okay. I don't

(10:09):
know if I definitively remember when I firstwas like, wait a minute, that's not right.
I knew from a very young age about sex and littlechildren do not know. sex. They know, you know,
the things that we teach them about their privateparts and all of that and playing doctors one
thing, but for a child to know how to have sex,I knew how to have sex. And I think, so this

(10:38):
is a vulnerable share. It's hard for me to sharethis, but it's in the book, so I get to talk
about it anyway. I was caught by an adult whenI was 12 years old, acting out in a closet
with another child. And The adults that werethere, one of them said, little kids go to
hell who do that. And I do not blame the adultsat all. Like there was no training manual to

(11:05):
know how to react to what was happening on theother side of that closet door. Nobody was
having these conversations, you know, 41 yearsago. Actually now it's longer than that. Like
45 years ago, nobody was having those conversations.So. you know, how would you react to something
like that happening if you were the adult thatcame across that? But that really was where

(11:28):
my shame started. That was the moment when allof a sudden my life changed. There's two different
types of shame. There's toxic shame and thenthere's shame. This is toxic shame. This is
shame that really gets deep into your soul andis hard to get rid of and so I don't know exactly

(11:49):
when, I think I was a little bit older whenI was like, wait a minute, why did I know those
things? How could I have known those things?But I don't have a definitive answer as to
when that actually happened. But I do definitivelyknow when the first day that I felt toxic shame.
It's a shame that you had to experience thatat any age, to be honest, but to be young and

(12:16):
to be. I guess somewhat caught in the act ofsomething that an adult would have to make
a decision. Like what, how do you, like yousaid, how do you deal with that? What do you
say? What does that conversation look like?And all of a sudden you're thinking, I'm prepared
for a lot of things. This was not in the trainingmanual. This definitely was not there. What
do I do? But at the same time, you have to think,this is a very serious thing. And, you know,

(12:41):
just because you caught it now, how long hasit been going on for? Like there's more questions
that arises from it. For you, do you feel thatyou handled the toxic shame in a healthy or
unhealthy way? Sorry, I don't know that there'sany healthy way to originally handle the toxic
shame. It's been a very long road for me, whichis why I wrote the book and why I'm speaking

(13:06):
out because I want to collapse time for people.I don't want people to have to go 41 years
living with the kind of shame the areas thatit showed up in my life, I was not connecting
with men. That was one of the first indicatorsfor me that something was wrong. And like a
man would walk in the room and look at me andI would look down. I never wanted a man to

(13:31):
see inside my soul because I thought, oh myGod, if this man sees what I've done, how could
he love me? Now, after all the work that I'vedone, I'm like, oh my God, how can he not love
me? Like, I'm amazing, you know, I've done allthis work, I've healed and all the things.
But that was one of the first indicators tome that I was acting out from the trauma. Another

(13:55):
way that I acted out was I had an eating disorderuntil I was 41 years old, I was bulimic, which
was the second time that I chose to go to therapybecause I'm like, if you don't get a handle
on this, you're gonna die. Um, you know, I'veexperimented with drugs, with alcohol. I've,
um, been promiscuous in ways that, you know,didn't make me feel worthy and loved. Um, so

(14:20):
those were some of the things that I did andself-worth and success in my businesses. Um,
I think somebody looking at me from the outsidewould think, Oh, she's, she's successful, but
I have been stifled in my businesses. and haven'tbeen able to scale to the level that I've wanted
to scale because of self-worth, not feelinglike I deserved it. So those are some of the

(14:44):
ways that it has manifested for me over theyears. Wow. Not healthy, not healthy, yeah.
It sounds it. Did it impact your relationshipsgrowing up with just peers and potentially
trying to have friends? No. to this day havea lot of friends. I'm very, very blessed. And

(15:08):
I have friends that are like, one of my bestfriends is a guy. So the where I was breaking
down in relationships was when it came to romanticrelationships and a relationship that I truly
needed to be vulnerable and intimate, not sexuallyintimate, but intimate, you know, with is where

(15:30):
I've had the breakdown in my life. And And nowI'm healthy and I'm excited. I'm calling in
the love of my life right now. So, and I'm honestly,I'm actually grateful that I didn't find somebody
to be in relationship with prior to this becauseI think that my picker was off and I think

(15:52):
that I would have chosen poorly. And I thinkthat I probably would be divorced now. And
so now that I'm healthy and now that I knowwhat I deserve, I'm looking for a completely
different person than what I would have beenlooking for when I was in pain and hurt. And
that makes sense because... really, really lightheartedcomparison, but not meant to be. But when you

(16:19):
go shopping, you're hungry, you're not buyingwhat you should be buying. You're just buying
for the here and now rather than what is goodfor you. Let's go get a healthy option. Yes,
it's going to require some cooking, some prepwork or whatever else, but that's better for
you. And the best, only way you can do it isreally if you've eaten prior to it and you're
in a clear state of mind where you're not goingby something. Yeah. I love that you're making

(16:44):
it light though. Like this is such a heavy topicthat I am trying to bring light and fun as
much as possible to the conversation. And it'sa weird thing to say, but I love that you're
kind of making it a lighter conversation, causeit helps and it diffuses it a little bit more
than just being in this dark oppressive conversationaround all of it. Cause it's hard when you're

(17:09):
in it. I think it's just, I've just somehowconditioned myself to be that way because I
understand a lot of people, I myself has experiencedit, where you're in a dark place, but sometimes
you just need to be able to look around, seesomething and just see correlation between
that and a situation that you're in or you'vewitnessed or potentially will fall into and

(17:31):
go, it's not that dissimilar. Yeah, a littlething might need to be tweaked, but that is
there because a lot of us, I think. I thinksomething that a lot of us do, which is detrimental
to us, and it's because we don't talk aboutit, maybe because of shame, maybe because of
pride, maybe because of a number of things.We try to do everything in one goal, in one

(17:53):
space, rather than set aside different areasto try and manage situations. So for instance,
from what you've told me, you went therapy,from you going therapy, that's not you trying
to just deal with it on your own and just tacklingit. It was a matter of right, I need to outsource
help here because I cannot do this on my own.There might be other times where that you're

(18:16):
a very friendly person, you have friends aroundyou because you understand that there's value
in having friendship because you need to havethat part of you. Yeah, we can make ourselves
laugh and giggle ourselves from watching TVor whatever else, but sometimes you need to
share that with other individuals. And thatfor me is important that people are aware that

(18:36):
There's no shame in asking for help. There'sno shame in leaning on people. But when someone
like you and my other guests who are sharingtheir truths, sharing their intimate stories
about what they've endured, there's possiblysomeone listening thinking, I cannot ask anyone
for help because if I do, they're gonna lookat me like I deserve to be out on the street

(18:57):
or they stepped in something and that's me andthey're gonna disassociate from me. Hopefully
that's not the case, but that's why, you guyssharing these stories are so important and
to make it more personal to you, you sharingyour truth, yes, you shared it in other formats,
but you sharing it right here and now is importantbecause hopefully someone is listening, whether

(19:21):
it's them that's gone through it and maybe I'llnever know, or it's someone they know that
has endured something or can hear the similaritiesbetween what your behaviors was and going,
okay. didn't think that was an option, but potentially,hopefully they're wrong. But let's just say,

(19:41):
if it's not, at least they've got a chance totalk to someone about it and see how to potentially
approach the situation. A question I'd ask you,if you don't mind, is, growing up, did your
parents get made aware of this? Um, I want toside swipe for two seconds, cause I want to
touch on something that's really, really importantwhen you're talking about asking for help.

(20:06):
And then I'll, I'll answer. I'll answer this.Um, one thing that I held me back for so long
for, for talking about it was the shame thatis surrounded by all of this and thinking that
I was the only person who ever did anythinglike this. And so when I first went to therapy,
um, and I imagine. There are people listeningright now that have my story and they just

(20:32):
have this pit in their stomach that is like,it's the worst feeling. And they're thinking,
how can I tell somebody this? They're gonnathink I'm a monster. They're gonna think I'm
a pedophile. Cause that's what I thought ofmyself when I was a little girl. You know,
at 12 years old, I was thinking I was a monsterand a pedophile. And so the one thing that
I need for your listeners to know who are dealingwith something like this. Every time that I've

(20:58):
shared my story and I've had that feeling of,oh my God, how are they going to how are they
going to perceive me now? What are they goingto think of me? The level of love and kindness
and understanding and compassion that was onthe other side of me sharing my story to this
day is just unbelievable to me. And it has happenedover and over and over again, as I've shared

(21:23):
my story. So I want whoever's listening rightnow, and whoever is just in that place of,
oh my God, how can I tell somebody? I promiseyou what you have made up around the fear of
that is not real. So please go talk to somebody.Say it out loud. Even if you're just writing

(21:45):
it in a journal or saying it in the mirror orwhatever, screaming in a pillow, get it out
of your body and then find somebody that youcan talk to. And I've also found that a group
setting for me was way faster healing than justdoing a one-on-one. I think there's obviously,

(22:06):
therapy's important. But I found that when Iwas able to do this with other people who had
similar stories, my healing was way faster becausethere finally was something to compare it to.
It was finally like, oh my God, there's somebodyelse like me. When you're in therapy and you're
talking about it, you're like, this person issaying it's not uncommon, but how do I know

(22:27):
that? You know, but when you're in a group settingand other people are sharing similar stories,
it's like, wow, OK, I'm not alone. I'm not theonly one who ever did this.

(22:52):
So the question, when I was growing up, didmy parents know? When I was growing up, it
was not a conversation. I was not talking aboutit to anybody until I was 33 years old. My
parents are 100% behind what I'm doing now.I shared all of this with them about six years
ago, and they have been just unbelievable. Likethe level of love and understanding and support

(23:20):
has been really, really. really beautiful, butas a child, no, I wasn't talking about it,
not to anybody. Do you think they may have known?Because the reason I asked the question is
because there are things that I believe my momdidn't know about. Me as an adult now looking
back going, how could she not know? It was soobvious because my mom grew up doing things

(23:41):
that I probably did. Maybe not the same things,because it's different times or whatever else.
But I'm just saying, do you think they'll tell,tell signs, but your parents were that much.
in love with you and supportive of you as aperson, not based on your behaviors, just you
as the person, if they were supportive of youknowing that you're gonna come through this.

(24:02):
I'm sorry, I got confused with your question.Say that again. Sorry. Do you, no, it's fine.
Do you feel that your parents may have knownaspects of what was going on, but because they
loved you as a person, more so than your behaviors,they were willing to support you by going,

(24:22):
do you know what, giving you the benefit ofthat.
That question is odd to me only because
I'm not wrapping my mind around it the way thatI think that you want me to. So when you say
the benefit of the doubt, I feel like that meansthat I was out drinking or stealing or things

(24:43):
like that, which I was drinking. But that'snot, I know that they did not know when I was
abused because we've had this conversation.And my mom has said, how could I not know?
You know, how could I not know? We knew whereyou were all the time. And unfortunately, most
cases are somebody that's very, very close tothe child. So, you know, you drop them off

(25:08):
at an uncle's house or a grandparents house.The last thing that you're thinking is that
they're going to hurt your baby. But unfortunately,in most cases, it is somebody that's very close
to the child. So I know that they did not knowthat. something had happened to me

(25:28):
when I was little. Did that answer your question?It did, it did. But I think, I don't know.
Obviously there's a lot of differences becauseI've never personally experienced anything
like that. So it's very new to me to sort ofask questions to make sure I'm being mindful
of the situation because I'm always... mindfulthat when we have this conversation, you're

(25:51):
having to relive certain aspects of your life.And I'm not a therapist, I don't have the ability
to heal you or to fix this situation or to whenthe conversation is said and done, sort of
sit with you and just either be in a room withyou or console you in any which way I can.
And I don't want to be disrespectful. I don'twant to be. I told you before, if there's a

(26:15):
question that I don't want to answer, I'm justgoing to say, you know what, I'm going to pass
on that. So you can ask me whatever you want.And I don't feel like you're being disrespectful.
It's important for people to have answers tothese questions because nobody's talking about
this stuff. So you're not being intrusive atall. I'm not, I'm not taken aback by anything
that you're asking me. So go for it. No, I appreciateit. So I really, I really liked the fact that

(26:39):
you're at a stage now. Yes, it's years goneby since, but I'm still happy that you're able
to live in your truth and have your parentswith you on that journey. And I think a lot
of people may fear that would never be the case.That would never be able to tell them. How
did it feel when you finally spoke to your parentsabout it? Yeah, that was another one of those

(27:05):
situations where, you know, you have that pitin your stomach and you're like, how do I get
to have this conversation? There were some otherthings happening that were there was some other
turmoil going on in my life that kind of broughtme to my knees. And so me sharing this with
them was necessary for me to do at the time,which now looking back, it's interesting because

(27:29):
I haven't ever had this thought before. I'mnow grateful that situation happened because
it gave me an opportunity to share with my family,with my parents and tell them everything. And
I'm blessed. Like my parents are like giftsfrom God. Like I truly have special, special

(27:52):
parents. And I wish everyone could say thatbecause I know that there's lots of people
out there that they have quite the opposite.to say, and that makes me really sad. I adopt
my parents out all the time. I'm like, thatis a true thing. My parents have adopted one
of my girlfriends because both of her parentspassed away. So I adopt them out all the time.

(28:13):
And everybody, when they talk about my mom anddad, they're like, oh my God, you have the
best parents in the whole wide world. I do.Are they a pain sometimes? Of course, like
we all, we're normal. We're a normal family.We have things that, you know, come up, but
it's... It's a true blessing to have them. Mywhole family is behind all of this. You know,

(28:35):
I have several siblings and everybody's in theknow. Everybody knows everything. So it's really,
it makes what I'm doing easier and knowing thatI have that support. Yeah, also to hear about
your friends, passing, other parents. When youwas at one of your lowest points, what did

(28:59):
you think telling your parents would have lookedlike? Because I'm very mindful that how we
think things are going to be versus what they'reactually going to be are oftentimes very different.
I knew how they would react. I knew that nomatter what I said to them, they were going
to be a hundred percent supportive and lovingand kind and. Of course, it was a very hard

(29:24):
conversation. And as any parent would do, theyblame themselves. Like, how could this have
happened? And my mom and I are, you know, becausethe book just came out, we're having a lot
of those conversations over again because it'sfresh and it's raw and it's out there right
now. But I knew no matter what that they wouldbe supportive. I never had a doubt in my mind

(29:51):
that it It was uncomfortable. I mean, it's notfun to have these kinds of conversations, but
I knew that they would be supportive. That'sreally good, because like you said, you're
blessed. You have these parents like that. Andunfortunately, and I think we're well aware,
there's many people, unfortunately, that areunable. Maybe they don't have both parents.

(30:13):
Maybe they only have one parent. Maybe theydon't have any parents. They just have guardians.
Maybe they're terrible. Yeah. Like there's alot of terrible people out there. Yeah, they
might tell their parents and they don't care.Yeah. That they don't even bat an eyelid and
this person is then having to live with that.Finally get the courage to then talk about
it and it gets dismissed. But you didn't havethat, which I'm grateful for you. And I'm so

(30:36):
happy and love to mom and dad who are willingto just sort of love on you and just give you
the support that you require and you deserve.Thank you. When did you start therapy? I started
when I was 33 years old. I'm 55 now. I startedwhen I was 33. And I also did Landmark Education
in conjunction with therapy. Do you know LandmarkEducation? Have you heard of Landmark? I have

(30:58):
no idea. Please educate me. Yeah. It's a transformationalworkshop and it's international. It's been
around for a very long time. And I went in toLandmark thinking that I was going to be inspired
with my businesses and really, you know, getsome insight into how to grow my business.
And Boy, was it a different experience. Youknow, I really got to, it's, it's those types

(31:24):
of programs and I've done several of them andthey've been pivotal in me and my healing.
But those types of programs are really about,you know, when you're pointing your finger
at somebody else, you got three pointing backat yourself. And it's about taking responsibility
for your life. And I'm not talking about takingresponsibility for what happened to you or
who did it to you or all those things, becauseforgiveness is really, really important in

(31:47):
your healing. And you're not forgiving the personfor them. You're forgiving the person for yourself
so that you can let go of all of that. But withLandmark Education, I got to really see, for
the first time, it was really doing some workaround this. And remember how I said earlier

(32:11):
that group settings, I feel like the healingis faster in a group setting than it is if
you are just. in therapy. So I was doing Landmarkat the same time that I was doing my therapy
and it sped up my therapy by like a thousandtimes. So that was, that was a real blessing.
And I think I did therapy for about three orfour years with that therapist and then I was

(32:33):
fixed. And then, you know, I still was, haddifficulty with men, still not connecting with
men. And was like, I still believe in get 41,I'm still binging and purging. And I was like,
okay, you need to get a handle on this or you'regonna die. And that's when I went to therapy

(32:59):
for the second time and I saw a different therapist.And he was a blessing to me because it was
the first time I ever had any sort of reliefaround how I'd acted out as a child. Because
he said to me, how old were you when this washappening? And I said, I was 12 when it ended
and he said, who do you know that's 12 yearsold? And I thought of my niece. And he said,

(33:21):
do you think she thinks like an adult? Do youthink she reasons like an adult? She's a little
girl. You were a little girl. And it was justlike this explosion in my mind. You know, it
was the first time that I was like. Oh my God,I was a little girl. I wasn't, I'm not a monster.

(33:42):
I'm not a pedophile. You know, I was actingout because of what somebody else taught me
to do and kids will do what somebody teachesyou to do and then pair it with the fact that
it feels good, you know? So that was the secondtime that I went to therapy. And then just
the last like three and a half years, I've beeninvolved in this organization called Heartcore.

(34:06):
And I joined the community for business coaching.Shanda Sumpter is the owner of the company.
I joined for business coaching. And throughthat program, everybody who had done it, they're
like, you have to do leadership. You have todo leadership. I'm like, okay, I'll do leadership.
And I remember the first day stepping into that.And I'm so grateful. We did Zoom, cause this

(34:29):
was during COVID. And for me, I felt it wasway easier for me to open up and be vulnerable
on Zoom than standing in front of 100 peoplein a room. And I cried all day the first day
in that workshop because I knew that I was hereto finally deal with it and finally look at

(34:52):
it and finally let it go. And I got self-loveout of that. I got forgiveness, self-forgiveness
out of that. I figured out what my purpose inlife is out of that. It truly is incredible
transformation. And I think everybody shoulddo it, whether or not you have a secret, everybody

(35:18):
has a secret, but the program is just incrediblefor how you manage day-to-day life, how you
manage your business, how you deal with relationships.It's just an incredible program to do. But
for me, it really was life-changing becauseI had been praying for my purpose for a very,
very long time. I had businesses that I loved,but none of them were filling my cup. None

(35:41):
of them were making me feel like, oh my God,this is what I'm here for. And then God said,
okay, well, you get to share your story. AndI was like, oh, hell no. No, that ain't happening.
And it took a little while, but he softenedmy heart. There's been some obstacles throughout

(36:04):
this process the last year and a half, and there'vebeen some big obstacles in fact. And I said,
if this is what you want, you get to figureout the hard stuff. I'm going to put one foot
in front of the other, and I'm going to continueto move this project forward. But any of this
hard stuff, you figure it out. One of them was,um, I was told that I would be, um, registered

(36:28):
as a sex offender. and that I can be chargedas a felon. This is as a 12 year old little
girl. And so I'm like, God, I am not going tojail for you. Sorry, you know, drop the mic,
I'm out. And so that's when I was like, youknow what? If you want this, you figure it
out. And it's miracle after miracle has happenedand the path has been cleared. And you know,

(36:52):
it's just been really beautiful. My word forthe year is surrender for sure. Like, Every
time some obstacle comes up, I'm like, all right,you figure it out. And God keeps figuring it
out. So, and now we're here. Wow, that's incredible.So can I ask why was it when you was 33, you
decided to go therapy and not earlier? That'sa good question. So that's about the time that

(37:21):
I started my business. And I think, you know,they say you're like the five people that you
hang around with. The women that I was surroundedby were extremely professional women. They
were put together, they were goals and, youknow, all those things. And I think that it

(37:43):
was, I've never even thought about this question,so this is really good. I think that was the
first time that I was like, wait a minute, something'snot right here, you know? because I was surrounded
by people that were thriving and getting help.My first therapist was referred to me by a
friend of mine who was seeing him. So, um, Ithink that's, that's probably a really good

(38:06):
part of why is because I was around these peoplewho loved me and supported me. And I saw that
there could be a different way. Well, that'sencouraging. Yeah. Do you think now looking
back that your teens and your twenties, wouldhave been different if you'd gone to therapy
earlier. Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. But I don'tI don't have any regrets. You know, everything

(38:33):
happens for a reason. This my life unfoldedexactly the way that it was supposed to. And
now I and people might think why is she sayingthat but now it's a gift like I see my life
as a gift everything that has happened to methe molestation, me acting out, me getting
caught, me living with shame for as long asI live with shame, the bulimia, the relationships,

(38:57):
the abundance issues. That has all been perfectlyplanned out because now I get to stand here
with you and I get to share my story and I getto create hope for people who have lived in
this however long they've lived in it. I getto help set people free from their shame. So
I'm standing here now like, woo! this is amazingyou know so I don't I don't wish that it happened

(39:26):
any different way would it have most likelyyes but I don't wish it to be any different
fair enough and you said a key word then it'shope I can't remember when or who I was talking
to if anybody could have been myself I oftenhave conversation myself and it was a matter
of that's what this podcast for me is all aboutit's about hope hope for people to know that

(39:50):
where they are right now is not where they'regoing to reside forever in a day. There's hope
that they will be able to get out of this situation,be a different person, maybe grow, learn, evolve
from a situation. If you have to reset and startagain, because let's say a business was created,
it failed, and you start again, you're not startingfrom zero, you're starting from experience.

(40:12):
And that's something a lot of people beat themselvesup for because we look at people, like I said,
at the top of the show. We look at people andthink they're Instagram ready and that's how
they are and there's no flaws with them. Andthe reality is that's a lie. We've all got
our own secrets. We've all got our own thingsthat we're concerned about. I asked the question

(40:32):
about therapy because I am an advocate for therapy.I've had therapy multiple times and that's
because I went through depression very deepabout depression about a decade ago now. And
it wasn't for a good core group of people includingmy wife and... therapy to help me come through
this because they don't they didn't tell mewhat to do or what the answers was they helped

(40:57):
give me questions that I had to then answerbut I can only answer by looking deep within
and then I had to put certain things in placeif people that may not want to talk about cbt
or cognitive behavioral therapy and that helpedme it wasn't necessarily a fast burner but
I wouldn't have it any other way because Youhear so many times people win the lottery and

(41:19):
just as far as they get the lottery money, they'reback at their old job again or somewhere else.
But if someone's taking their time to accumulatetheir wealth, they're slow to spend it because
they know how hard they worked for that money.Other people come and say, oh, look at that
car you got. Oh, look at that house you got.But you have no idea how much blood, sweat
and tears got into every single day of accumulatingthis wealth. And even when I went to pull the

(41:43):
trigger to buy it, I promise you. I pray wentback and forth for two weeks before I splurged
on it. I'm still threatened to think if you'vemade the right decision, but everyone else
looks at it and goes, oh, I wanna be you. You'renot willing to do what I did to be where I
am, but I will share with you what needs tobe shared. And if you think it's for you, fine,
drink from that cup if you want to, but if you'renot, pass. Yeah, I love that. Yeah. I would

(42:09):
love to know. I would love to tell you. I likethe wit. If you were to go back in time to
whatever you deem the lowest point of that stintwhere you was going through it all, what age

(42:31):
would you be and what would you say to yourselfto help push through and not to give up on
yourself? You're gonna make me think. Yeah.Well, you know, all the work that I've done,
all the, because I've done some deep work andit has, you know, it's, like I said, it's beautiful

(42:54):
on the other side. So I agree with you abouttherapy too. Like it's priceless. I think one
of the things that I just recently uncoveredwas that I was blaming three or four year old
Jill. for actually getting molested. I was blamingher for not getting out of that situation.

(43:20):
And so now... you know, I would, I would takebetter care of just really loving on her and
telling her everything's okay.
Yeah, I would I would go back to her becausethat's where it all stemmed from you know,

(43:41):
that's where everything stemmed from the actingout and Then the toxic shame and all the things
Were from that one incident. I don't know ifit was one. I think it probably was more than
once. I don't know So That was you blaming herbut was there a time growing up? where things

(44:03):
Weren't particularly great for you mentally,emotionally, however it is, and you just weren't
happy. Is there a time where you felt that,if I could go back there and sort of talk to
my younger self just to say, you know what,it does get better. You know, trust me, if
you could see me now, you'll be smiling. Isthere a time, do you think, it does have to

(44:28):
be an honest case because many people may nothave thought about it. Many people may think,
do you know what, I'm put a blanket over it,he just is as a journey was. Yeah, well I think...
Considering everything, I've had a pretty greatlife. I have lots of friends, I've done a lot

(44:48):
of really, really cool things in my lifetime.I live in one of the most beautiful cities
in the world. I have a beautiful home. And Ithink that it's been a pretty steady ride.
There hasn't been any like... Outside of livingwith my shame cloud that's been over my head
for 41 years, you know, this oppressive feelingof shame. But outside of that, my life has

(45:15):
been pretty even keel. There hasn't been anylike one incident that happened where it was
like the lowest of the low. I mean, I've alwayswanted love in my life, but that's been a constant,
you know, I've always wanted, I've always known,like, I'm interested to know how many of your,
of the people listening will resonate with this.And I heard this from Shanda Sumter, my business

(45:39):
coach, and she said, some people just have aknowing. You have a knowing that you are going
to make a lot of money, that you're going totouch a lot of lives, that you're going to
be very successful. And I've had that knowingsince I was a very little girl. I was probably
like eight, eight or nine, when I would seemyself. with Ocean View office and this beautiful

(46:02):
glass desk and all these people running aroundworking for me and creating magic in the world.
So I don't know that there's been one particularinstance where I've been like, okay, I need
to go back and clean that up with her. Causemy life's been pretty, pretty good outside
of the debilitating shame that I've lived withfor 41 years, you know? It sounds counterintuitive,

(46:26):
I guess. It's like, well, why did you even writea book if you weren't that bad off? But it
has affected me in a lot of ways, you know,it is, it is. It has affected me in a lot of
ways. And I don't know. I I'm sorry. I justdon't really have a good answer for you there.
No, it's, it's as you see fit. I'm not hereto coach you through it and tell you what to
say, because this is your truth and I'm happyfor it with the debilitated shame. Do you think

(46:51):
that was visible for other people to see? No,I've had people tell me that. I've had two
people specifically said to me, wow, like Ihave a friend, her and I were really, really
close when I lived in another city in California.And she just recently heard about my story,

(47:12):
you know? And she called me and she's like,how could I not have known? How could I not
have known the pain that you were in?

(47:37):
We get really good at covering it up. And myother friend said, you're always the bubbly
one, you know, you walk in a room and everybodyknows you're there and you're gregarious and
fun and all the things. And it's like, how,how could you have been in so much pain? I'm
like, acting, you know? So after you walk intoa room, light it up. Everyone's feeding off

(48:00):
your energy that you're providing. How did thatleave you feeling once the room was cleared?
and you was left by yourself. That's when theshame cloud really became clear. And I call
it my shame cloud because it really, for 41years, I really, you know, Pigpen from Snoopy?

(48:21):
You know, Pigpen, he's got the dirt swirlingaround him. That's what my dark cloud was.
It literally was there all the time. I wouldgo to bed, it was there. I would wake up, it
was there. And it was just this overwhelmingshame. all the time. So when I was in situations
where I was in a room and I was, you know, thelife of the party, having fun, all the things,

(48:44):
the cloud wasn't there. It was there, but itwasn't there. When I was alone with my own
thoughts, that's when the cloud would reallybe looming. It feels that, oh, it sounds like,
sorry, when it's just you and your thoughtsand you was alone. your thoughts were potentially

(49:06):
being able to feed it because you was givingit attention. When you had other people to
entertain, let's say, you wasn't paying it enoughattention for it to be a concern for you. Yeah.
Because I was getting the attention. Correct.Yeah. Was that cloud there when you was with
other people that you was being, say, intimatewith, or was that still a matter of, I'm not

(49:31):
paying it any attention, so it's not there?It was only when everything was said and done.
It's when I'm alone with my thoughts. Yeah.And that only stopped when you started going
to therapy. No, it didn't stop at all when Iwas going to therapy. It stopped when I turned
52 and I finally forgave myself, and I finallylearned to love myself. That's when the cloud

(50:00):
went away. And I still look for it sometimes.It's crazy. You live with something for 41
years, you know? Exactly. It's like having anextra limb. And so I look for that cloud now
and it's gone. And it is the most beautifulfeeling. It's indescribable. It's light. It's
fun. It's like that cloud was so oppressiveand just, we, it was like having a hundred

(50:26):
pound weight on my back all the time. And nowI'm just like, ba ba, dancing around and free
and just, the level of hope that I have nowfor what I get to create in my life, what I
get to call in, I'm really into manifesting.So what I get to call into my life now is just

(50:49):
beautiful. So I just want people to know that,whatever your secret is, get it out because
life on the other side of healing from thatis the most beautiful thing to experience.
Like there's nothing like it. Yeah. It soundslike, and you did use a very good term when

(51:10):
you said that it's like weights on your shoulder.You've taken off and stuff like that. I was
also liking it to wear sunglasses all the timefor 40 odd years. And then one day you're able
to take those glass off and you're squintingcause you're thinking, oh my gosh, it's so
bright. It's so bright. Look at the future.Look what I could obtain. For all the time

(51:30):
I thought everything was dim and that's whyI wasn't happy, but there's a lot to be happy
about right now. Yeah. And I'm happy for youfor that. Thank you. That is spectacular. Thank
you. I want this for everybody. Everybody deservesto be this happy. I, um, when I was just surrendering

(51:51):
to stepping into this, I was listening to apodcast, Amanda Francis. I don't know if you
know who she is. She's a manifesting influencerand she wrote a book called Rich's F. And her
podcasts, and I don't know who in your communitybelieves in God or what you believe in, but
I believe in God. And so I talk about God alot in my book. And it says that everything,

(52:17):
every desire on your heart was given to youby God. Like, let that sink in for a second.
Like, what do you really want? Like, what aresome things that you really, really want? You
actually get to have those things. And it'syour only job every single day to feel what
it feels like to have those things, to reiteratethat you get to have those things. And so,

(52:41):
you know, on the other side of healing and forgivenessand all that, like, I am blissfully excited
about all those things that I get to call innow. because everybody gets to have this level
of happiness. Everybody deserves to have thethings in their life that they love and that
they desire. It's really beautiful. Yeah, itsounds like it. And that is a hope. That is

(53:07):
a hope through these conversations that peoplefeel less alone. I've come across some incredible
individuals have been exposed to a lot of differentstories. to be fun fact, I didn't know anything
about agoraphobia. Spoke to one guy up in Canada,and then today I'm sat with someone telling
me they've got agoraphobia and it's like, Iknow what you're talking about because I had

(53:30):
a long conversation. And it just meant thatmy approach to the individual was a lot more
tailored to their situation because I was moreaware of it. And that's what I would love for
people to be able to gain from these conversationsby if this alters their behavior around individuals
who potentially may have gone through what you'vegone through, then so be it, rather than just

(53:54):
making jokes and quotation marks that they thinkis funny, but it's like, are you really reading
the room? Are you reading the signs? And thereare ways that you can potentially have a joke
with that person at some point, but you needto do the work beforehand because that person
is a show of themselves because they have adark cloud over their heads. And you probably
can see it, but you're kind of ignoring it.they can't ignore it because once they leave

(54:18):
your presence and they're by themselves, they'rehaving to deal with that. And it's not a good
look. It can be draining. It can be, cause mydepression, I would say was debilitating cause
I didn't leave my bed. But again, not makingany comparison. That's just, that's my truth.
And it was just draining. It was, I was justnumb. I was numb to everything. Everything

(54:40):
seemed black and white. It was just meh. isthe best word I could eloquently try and use
to express it. I didn't have any desire foranything. And I had to train myself out of
that because I would say I'm fine. But whatI say, I can make my voice sound like I'm fine,
but my face, my body language was not reflectingthat. So I had to work on that. And eventually

(55:03):
I became the person I wanted to become. Andsimilar that with this podcast, I become the
person thinking, I don't remember. hearing anythingor seeing anything when someone doesn't tell
me what I should be doing. I'd rather listento someone's story and I pick from it what
I wanna pick from it because I know, okay, cool,they've gone through whatever, here's where

(55:24):
they come out. I appreciate that. And that'swhat I wanna do for the other people so that
if anyone goes through or going through stuff,then they can hear something like you and you
can share from your lived experience what you'vegone through, the shame you felt, the anguish
you may have gone through. the way you've actedout, the way you just dealt with the situation

(55:46):
as a whole, how eventually you spoke to yourparents, even though you knew what they were
going to do, it wasn't guaranteed they weregoing to do that until they did it. And even
that was a tough conversation. As a grown woman,you're still having that, oh, mom, dad, please
sit down. Guess what? And a lot of people areprobably having conversations where they think

(56:09):
it's too late because Like the conversationhappened with yourself, it's too late because
I should have said this then. But in my head,as long as you're drawing breath, you've got
an opportunity to try again. And you are a testamentto that. And I love what's gone through your
life in the sense of, I'm not necessarily happyabout what's happened, because I wouldn't wish

(56:32):
that on anybody. But I'm happy that you're ableto receive what you feel was meant for you
from that situation. But... not to rob you ofthe opportunity to tell me, because I know
you said that liberated is the title of whatyou've gone through. I asked the question,
if that wasn't a loss in your life, becausein binary terms, it's either a win or a loss

(56:55):
when you go through a situation, that wouldhave been a loss because you're thinking nobody
wants that. If that wasn't a loss, what areyou going to call that? Well, like I said,
now I think of it as a gift. Like, you know,now it gets to be a win. If you want me to
use the W word. No, I like that. Yeah, now it'sa gift now because I've done the work to heal

(57:19):
and I've done the work to get past all that.And now I hope that my words will touch somebody
else and give them hope to know that they toocan get past whatever pain they're in, you
know? That's my only hope. And I think that'samazing. A gift? I know you used that before,

(57:40):
but different people have different ways ofhow they perceive their struggles when they
look back at it in hindsight. And if it's agift, it's a gift. Hopefully it's been well
received. May not have like the wrapping paperit came in, but you know, you're here with
it. You're no longer ashamed by it, I'd liketo think. And you're here to help other people

(58:01):
shine light on their situation, to live freefrom their shame, be liberated from their no
longer have the clouds hanging over their heads.What I'll do, before we conclude, if I could
ask you for the next two minutes to promoteanything and everything you've got going on
where people can connect with you, go for it.Thank you. So people can find me at jillesholtz.com.

(58:29):
That's my website. And will you have the shownotes and stuff? Will there be my thanks to
my things? Okay, so jilleschultz.com. And onmy website, there's lots of different things.
There's support, there's resources. There's,you can find my book there. I'd love it if
you wanted, if you know somebody that can usethe book, please, please send them the book

(58:51):
because that book is really intended to helpset people free and let them know that they're
not alone. And honestly, I'd rather do an askif I could. Go for it. You know, it's really
just my vision and my dream and my hope to sharemy story in as many places as I can. So if

(59:12):
and it only takes one person, right, just oneperson hearing the story that may know somebody
that has a another podcast or that book speakerson stages or things like that. Like I'm really
just looking for opportunities to spread mymy experience and my story to help other people.

(59:32):
So if anybody that's listening right now knowsanybody who knows anybody who knows anybody,
I would love for you to connect with me on mywebsite and share that with me. Absolutely
fine. And the thing is most people might think,why would he let someone do that for? And the
reality is that I know I'm not in competitionwith anybody else. It does not hurt me in any

(59:55):
way, shape or form. if other people are hearingthe same stories from different sources, because
my audience is my audience. I cater to a certaindemographic of people, it may grow, it may
not, who knows. But the more people that havethe opportunity to hear your stories, my other
guest stories, it's only gonna help more peoplefeel less alone. I am absolutely fine with

(01:00:16):
me not being the number one, whatever, becauseit's not about me. It's never been about me.
It's about... who I can serve and how I canserve and I'm happy to do that. So yes, please
people, if you know someone that you feel thatshe could jump on, share her story and help
shine more of that light on topics that needto be spoken about, please go and reach out

(01:00:40):
to her and let her know and let them know howgreat she is because I've enjoyed the conversation.
It has stumped me at times just because of thenature of the situation and I feel that. potentially
if we knew each other a little bit more, wecould have gotten into more nitty gritty stuff,
but it is what it is and I'm absolutely finebecause it is a topic that I'm not completely
aware of, but I'm aware that it is a thing thatgoes on amongst people and many people wouldn't

(01:01:05):
wanna talk about it. And it's embarrassing toknow that we know we all are living in shame,
but are not willing to talk about it. I knowfrom my culture, there's many things that we
have to live through for what we're exposed.to as a young person, even if you bring religion
into it, you're taught from a young age to sortof feel shame about certain things. And we're

(01:01:25):
growing up into young adults and then fullygrown adults and still carrying the shame.
And then one day we really look into it andrealize there's no shame in it. You know, I
was potentially a child. I didn't know whatI was doing or whatever the situation is. But
until we afford that grace to ourselves to askfor help. and not only ask for help, but accept

(01:01:49):
the help I think is crucial. And you've justshown that by being open to help, by being
open to look in and back on what's happened,you're able to see what you've gained from
that situation and help you to find your purposeand to be the person that you are today who's

(01:02:11):
enabled. to help countless people. Yes, it kindof sucks being in this position because people
consume what they consume and give you nextto no feedback. But the reality is that the
feedback would probably be best served in people'schanging their attitudes towards their situation,
opposed to them just giving you lip service.And I think you are gonna do massive things

(01:02:32):
with the stuff you put out there, with the storythat you're willing to share. And I'm grateful
for people like you that are willing to go outthere and just say, do you know what? This
is me. This is me. This is what I've been through.I know you may not want to hear it, but if
people don't hear about it, more people aregoing to be in that same situation. A quick

(01:02:53):
little thing I'll say is, I was working financeand this person I knew got scammed. He was
so embarrassed by the scam. He told me everythingabout it because people openly talked to me
about things. How weird? And he was tellingme about how it worked and this and the rest
of it. He wouldn't tell anybody about it becausehe was so embarrassed. He lost so much money.
And I said, If you don't talk to anyone aboutit, they will do it to someone else. And they'll

(01:03:16):
do it to someone else. Yeah, I hear what you'resaying, but I just can't do it. So if what
happened to you is not spoken about, it willhappen to someone else. It will happen to someone
else. And is that fair? If we love our lovedones like we say we do, we will want to be
as open and honest with them about the thingsthat they need to be mindful of, because we

(01:03:37):
don't want to fall into the traps that we fellinto. or at least learn from my experiences
where I have to go through them themselves.And I just want people to know, end of day,
where you are right now, no matter how you feel,whatever clouds over your head, just know that
cloud doesn't have to be entertained, doesn'thave to be fed. It can disappear. You might
have to do a little bit of legwork onto it,but you know what? It's not about just running

(01:04:00):
to the end. As Jill says, she does things stepby step, just keeps going forward, like she's
done with her business and stuff like that.That's all you can do. Don't focus on the staircase,
just focus on the step and you will get thereeventually. If you have a deity you believe
in or you believe in luck or you believe inwhatever you believe in, just have something
to hold onto because trust me, you are worthyof any great thing that is deserving to you.

(01:04:24):
Yes, you may not feel like it right now, butyour feelings don't always tell you the truth.
Feelings only last for so long. Know yourself,know your worth. You are amazing, you are incredible.
Jill is testament to that. She's amazing. She'salso incredible. and she's gone through some
stuff. She had a dark cloud over her head formany years, but look at her now, she's shining
bright to the point where I feel like I needto wear sunglasses. So I wish everyone well

(01:04:47):
who's listening, come check me out on everypodcast on Instagram, because I'm always out
there putting some exclusive content out there,and just share this with people who you think
would benefit from listening to the conversationand reach out to Jill and show her love and
support. Thanks again for everyone listening,and I will see you in the next one.