The Daemon and Cheating the Ferryman with Anthony Peake

Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
Music.

(00:15):
Hello and welcome to the Evolving Spiritual Practice Podcast. My name's Ralph Cree.
My website is bodyheartmindspirit.co.uk for more information about my stuff.
In this episode I spoke to Anthony Peake about his book, which you can see here

(00:36):
in the background, I'll just grab,
called The Daemon, A Guide to Your Extraordinary Secret Self.
By Anthony Peake. We also talk about some of his other work including his book
called Cheating the Ferryman.

(00:57):
So Anthony has written a lot about some subjects which I had some personal experience
with and that's how I got into his work.
I had a temporal lobe seizure which
is a kind of epileptic thing where
time goes weird and you get lots of deja vu and

(01:17):
that kind of thing and a friend
of mine had read his book and said oh you
ought to listen to this reader's book because he speaks a
lot about temporal lobe epilepsy and he's
got this very interesting hypothesis he calls
cheating the ferryman which in a

(01:38):
nutshell is uh that we never fully
reach the moment of death when we reach the end of our life we actually relive
our life again kind of groundhog day style um there's a lot more to it than
that um but that's just kind of the one sentence version and then his work about the

(02:01):
daemon is that we have another part of ourselves called the daemon,
he calls it daemon, which has lived our lives over and over again and knows
what's coming in a lot of instances, and that's what déjà vu is.

(02:21):
So we had quite a wide-ranging conversation, talked
a lot about psychedelics like DMT
and ketamine and near-death experiences and the kind of parallels with those
things and he's a very interesting guy he's got an incredible memory he knows
so much about so many things and I'll just read a little bit from his bio just

(02:43):
so you get an idea of who he is,
So at university he specialised in Sociology of Religion, the theory of language
development and art of the Italian Renaissance.
A postgraduate course in management led Anthony away from his calling as a writer
and into a career as a manager in various UK businesses.

(03:04):
His interest in the esoteric continued with a growing fascination for quantum
physics and neurology developing over the years.
It was in the year 2000 that his life was to change.
A fortuitous set of circumstances allowed him to
take a year sabbatical from his business career and
he decided that he would focus the fruits of his all his
reading and research into writing a book exactly one year later he resurfaced

(03:28):
he surfaced with the manuscript of his first book then entitled cheating the
ferryman this book was a distillation of all his areas of interest quantum physics
neurology ancient myths alter states of consciousness and the mystery of death However.
It was to take five years before this work appeared in prints.
Thanks to the help of Professor Bruce Grayson of the University of Virginia,

(03:52):
an article based on Anthony's cheating, the Ferryman hypothesis was to appear
in the winter 2004 edition of the Journal of Near Death Studies,
the academic periodical of the International Association of Near Death Studies.
A few months later in early 2005 british
publishing house arcturus brought the rights

(04:13):
to the book and a year later and after a substantial rewrite
anthony's first book with the new title
is there life after death the extraordinary
science of what happens when we die was published the rest
as they say is history this book has now sold over
60 000 copies worldwide and has been translated into various
foreign language editions including spanish russian and polish

(04:36):
indeed anthony has now had books published
in every major european language he's written
eight books co-authored a ninth and co-edited a tenth all of them develop his
cheating the ferryman hypothesis into ever wider areas of application his approach
has always been to apply science to the mysterious and the enigmatic so i hope

(05:00):
you enjoy this wide-ranging.
Interesting conversation with and his bold hypothesis which i find really really intriguing.
Anthony peak welcome to the evolving spiritual practice podcast i'm absolutely

(05:21):
delighted and really looking forward to our discussion it's gonna be good so
it's a great great pleasure to host you,
uh understand your your people that know you call you tony so so right absolutely
yeah i have this i have this sort of dual personality whereby tony is me the
the ordinary humble normal guy and anthony's this egomaniac that gets on stages

(05:44):
and storms around and does all things my wife hates,
seeing me perform as she says because i'm
a very different person so yeah but i'm tony today yeah well
i mean that actually ties in a little bit with what we're going to be talking
about today that we are more than oneself so and you know it's a good good thing

(06:05):
in life to be able to make make use of you know have to be versatile to to use
more than one one one identity and so.
We're mainly going to be discussing today this book here which i'll just hold up to the camera
which is called you've written called the
do you pronounce it diamond or damon i pronounce

(06:25):
it damon to just differentiate but diamond
diamond when they spell it with the i tends to be
the pronunciation of diamond but i present it i say
it as damon okay i think that the
correct pronunciation i think from my knowledge of greek okay so
called the damon a guide to your
extraordinary secret self by anthony peak and i'd

(06:47):
never heard of your work before
until a couple of years ago and
what the reason why
i came across your work is i had something called a
temporal lobe seizure so because
an epileptic seizure so for those listening you haven't
heard of a temporal lobe seizure i'd never

(07:09):
heard of one it's a kind of mini epileptic seizure in the region of your brain
called the temporal lobes which are to do with time perception and i'll get
into the the the experience i had in a bit to describe that but i so i had that experience.

(07:29):
And there's another experience, which is slightly different,
which I'll get into as well.
But a friend of mine, when he heard that I'd had this experience,
he said, oh, you need to read this book.
I've just read this book by this chap, Anthony Peake, and it speaks a lot about
temporal lobe seizures.
So I thought, well, I had to be a little bit careful.

(07:52):
The temporal lobe seizure really freaked me out. It was, it was a very disorienting
experience and there was a lot of, there was a, quite an unpleasant dimension to it.
So I was not, I was like, I had to be quite careful afterwards to,
I became a bit hypervigilant of deja vu synchronicities, these kinds of things.

(08:16):
And I was like, I, I, so I kind of didn't rush into reading your book.
I took my time. And then when I started reading it, I read it very slowly.
As soon as I felt like, well, this is too much, it's kind of bringing it all
back up. I had to kind of like take, take my foot.
So I read it very, very slowly over probably six months or something like that.

(08:37):
So that's how I came across your, your work. And I've listened,
you've got tons and tons of stuff on YouTube and podcasts and those kinds of
things. So I've listened to quite a lot of that.
The first thing I wanted to say is that to set this, this up is I'm someone
who will freely admit I have not got a clue what is going on in life.
I just do not know. It's complete mystery to me.

(09:01):
That's my kind of starting point with everything. But I have to say,
I love a bold hypothesis and playing around with ideas.
And I find your.
Your hypotheses which we're going to look at today what do
you call them theories i i've different hypothesis or theories
no i definitely don't call them theories i use

(09:22):
very much the scientific definition of these things i would argue that it is
at best a hypothesis or the hypotheses but this is just as much speculation
as anything else in the sense that it is it is it is to a degree unproven scientifically
in that it is virtually impossible to reproduce a lot of the
things I discuss under laboratory control, laboratory conditions.

(09:43):
However, I will argue that the speculation and the hypotheses work when I interface
with individuals like you, who through the phenomenological experiences you
have had and the experiential experiences you have,
your experiences prove and support totally the ideas I put forward in my model.

(10:05):
So for me, i tend to use the word
probably hypothesis but even that i'm ill at ease but it's
it's not a theory yet maybe one day in the future
we'll find ways and means whereby we can do that but not at
the moment yeah sure and i i mean i rec there was a an instant recognition when
i came across your hypotheses and i was reading about them i was like there's

(10:27):
a there was a recognition for
sure and i think what you know one of the things that over the years i've.
Been kind of reoriented my view that
going against the grain of my education and stuff that actually
now take my direct experience and the direct
experience of other people seriously you know we're kind of in the schooling

(10:50):
in england and you know europe and america sort of the modern secular world
we're very much trained to doubt our direct experience and which i think is a.
There's a valid point there, but it's also a great mistake to discount your

(11:11):
own direct experience because really that's the main thing you've got in your life.
Well, that's the central argument I use in a number of my books is that really
everything we experience is subjective.
Everything we experience is presented to consciousness by the brain or by something
that internally models the external world and the stimuli that's coming in through our senses.

(11:33):
And anybody, you know, there is a term that is used by consciousness studies
individuals and researchers called naive realism.
And naive realism is the idea that there is somehow a one-to-one relationship
between the stimuli or the qualia, to use a technical term, that my brain presents
to my consciousness with what is actually out there.

(11:53):
Because we know from consciousness studies that, for example,
the whole visual system that we see is created by the brain from a postage stamp
inverted image on the retina,
which is converted from photon electromagnetic energy into an electrical stimuli.

(12:13):
Which goes through the optic nerve down to the darkest part of the brain.
The place at the back of the brain.
And there it takes those images and recreates that postage stamp inverted image
and turns it into this three-dimensional world.
And then it's presented to whatever consciousness is.
It's extremely peculiar isn't it the idea

(12:36):
that there is something inside your head that is
created from the interaction of energy and chemistry and everything else that
somehow at its lowest level is not only inanimate but it is dead because they
are chemicals and these chemicals somehow come together in some form of configuration
that creates a sentient being that that has a history,

(12:59):
has anticipations, has hopes and has dreams.
And of course, this is impossible. It is impossible as anything you can imagine.
And yet, modern science readily just accepts this.
It's hubris. It's the idea of, I think it was in 1994, a young American Australian,
philosopher called David Chalmers stood up at the University of Arizona at a

(13:21):
big consciousness conference and said, of course, modern science,
there is the soft problem of science, which is how the brain functions.
The hard problem is how it creates consciousness.
You know, as I've said in one of my books, is it just the addition of one quark?
Is it the addition of one electron, one photon, and suddenly consciousness just
suddenly downloads from nowhere?
You know, it's extraordinary. And people never, I always find that people never

(13:44):
think that back further back.
In other words, you know, we
have this beautiful materialist reductionist explanatory model of reality.
And, you know, we know that it works because you also understand how a system
works. You take it apart bit by bit.
And then by reducing it, materially reducing it, you understand how it functions.
You can't do that with consciousness.

(14:06):
You can't do that with the way the brain works.
You know, it's just not possible, really. really yeah
well it's a it's a good it's a good that's a good place to
start idealism is it's
been quite a theme recently in my podcast and i
mean we won't get get into that because that's quite a nuanced topic but yeah

(14:29):
what you know what is constant the the fact that consciousness can never be
made into an object of study you know truly that is that is a very very difficult
problem for an objectively oriented discipline
like science so you know that's who
knows i mean there's a maybe completely new way

(14:52):
of approaching things which is utterly inconceivable to
us now that we're but you know at
the moment we are where we are well let's let's let's get
into let's get into it so i thought it'd be good to start with a brief if you
do a brief description description of this dyad between what you call the edelon

(15:15):
and the diamond which is kind of two.
Main aspects of who we are I believe there is a sort of a third component that
we might get into later in the conversation but just at the moment restrict
it to those two and then how that links up with,
your hypothesis which you call cheating the ferryman which was from an earlier book you wrote.

(15:38):
And i think the challenge for you is is to make this into the kind of elevator speech,
version because i i have had the experience of of setting this kind of thing up before.
In in a podcast and suddenly half the time's gone i
will try and reduce it i think i'm like
mission impossible you're you wish yeah

(16:00):
if you if you wish to accept yeah in this you
know you have to um succinctly describe your hypothesis in 10 minutes or less
and this message will now destruct so ethan it's up to you yeah effectively
very very quickly i would argue that the greatest mystery we have is what happens
to human consciousness at the point of death it is the

(16:23):
ultimate victory mystery and it is
something that has engaged philosophers scientists and
many other people for for for millennia because
inevitably we are all sentient beings that are going to die
and the question is what happens at death because it's one thing we know for
certain death and taxes are the two things that we know a certitude so i was

(16:46):
very interested in this model But I was interested in coming up with a hypothesis
that made rational sense to science,
something that couldn't be scientifically dismissed.
Because so many of the models depend upon mysticism and the idea of spirit and
everything else as well.
But I wanted a model that scientists couldn't just diss in any way at all.

(17:10):
And in fact, what they haven't done, they haven't dissed it.
They've just completely ignored it. And I think that's probably the reason why
it has been completely ignored, because it is so difficult to dismiss as a scientist.
So what I argue, and again, it is interesting, I use the analogy that when I
came across my cheating the ferryman hypothesis.

(17:32):
It was not my intention to come up with a hypothesis explaining life after death.
I wanted to explain déjà vu.
I wanted to explain what déjà vu was as a phenomenon and what caused it.
And it was only through starting research, I felt I was rather like Schliemann
when he was discovering Troy in the Hill of Hislok.

(17:54):
You know, Frederick Schliemann had an idea that Troy was somewhere probably
in northwestern Turkey as it is now, but he didn't know where it was.
So he arbitrarily picked this hill, started digging, and then he started to
find all the different levels of Troy there.
And I felt I was like that. I was excavating this hypothesis.

(18:15):
I wasn't discovering it. I wasn't creating it. I was excavating it.
And more and more information kept coming to me as I started to read up.
So I didn't start off with a model and think I'll go out and prove it.
I did quite the opposite.
I started out with no idea where I was going, and I ended up with this incredible,
I believe, hypothesis that to me is totally revolutionary. Okay.

(18:39):
So the model, basically, and this will then explain the Damon and the Adelon
dyad and how that works. So you need the first model.
Now, again, just to explain, in 2020, I brought out a new version of all the
new science that supported my hypothesis, which I actually called Cheating the
Ferryman. And that That book came out in 2020.
So if anybody's interested in the latest research supporting my ideas,

(19:01):
you'll find that there. Okay. So.
The first thing is that there's something called near-death experiences, NDE's.
And in NDE's, there are certain traits that were put together by a guy called Raymond Moody.
And people, when they describe near-death experiences, that's close brushes
with death, they describe certain things that are consistent.

(19:24):
And some of them are really quite interesting. People, for instance,
say that time seems to dilate when you get into a near-death experience.
People seem to have what's called a panoramic life review, where they see,
quote, my life flash before my eyes.
They also feel they have a sensation, an out-of-body experience,
where they're floating above their body, looking down at their body.

(19:47):
They also encounter a tunnel.
They also go to another place, another reality that seems to be a facsimile of this one.
But they also deal and
come across something called the being of light which seems to be an entity
that manifests to assist the dying person in the transfer over to whatever comes

(20:13):
after death and this model is very similar as you know from your work at so
us and your work with anthropology Apology,
it's very similar to the shamanistic worldview and the way in which the shamanistic
guide appears to people when they're in shamanic traveling.
Also, when people have experiences with dimethyltryptamine and know they're

(20:35):
in theogens. So there's a lot of these things.
So what I suggest is, I started looking into this. Well, is there a neurological
model that can be applied to this?
And I was surprised to discover that, yes, there is.
And it is neurological. The near-death experience is created by the brain,
but that doesn't explain it.

(20:56):
Just like when we were discussing earlier on, neurology cannot explain consciousness
in the same token. It's an experience.
So people report that they have all these sensations and I started to pull it
together and I thought, well, what could this mean?
And I was particularly interested in this idea of my my life flashing before my eyes.

(21:19):
So I started looking into the processes of memory, how memory is processed,
how the brain encodes memory.
And I was surprised to discover that according to the latest research,
it seems that memory works holographically.
It seems it's not located in one place in the brain. It's located everywhere in the brain.

(21:41):
And it's processed almost non-locally to
use a quantum physics term in there seems to be
instantaneous communication across various areas of the brain
which funnily enough has recently been proven in some research that was done
at the university of sussex about three or four years ago which we might touch
a little bit upon but the place i went to university actually briefly oh really
it's just down the road from here so i'm i live in west sussex so lovely location

(22:05):
lovely location so the the so,
neurologically what's taking place because people when they
have these panoramic life reviews interviews seem to be
catapulted right back into a recreation of
an element of their past where they say you
know i saw my whole life flash before my eyes but some people argue that they
don't just have their own flash before their eyes they actually relive those

(22:29):
moments and i do my background research i cite a lot of the work of a guy called
wilder penfield who was an american stroke Canadian,
well, he was based in Canada, but he was an American neurosurgeon who in the
1930s, 40s, and 50s did a series of experiments on the exposed brains of individuals, mostly.

(22:51):
Epileptics, because they were wanting to model what happened in the brain when
somebody had a seizure and such like.
And what he found was that if he placed,
what he knew was that the brain doesn't feel pain so you
can expose the cerebral cortex of a
person with local anesthetic and you can stimulate the surface of the brain

(23:12):
using it with a small electric pen and it will put an electric charge into the
surface of the brain and it will make people feel things they'll see colors
they'll see lights and he was able to describe an homunculus which shows which parts of the brain
generate which senses which was interesting but he worked his way around to
the brain till he got to the temporal lobes.

(23:34):
And when he placed the electrode onto the exposed temporal lobes of people,
he was able to evoke past life memories, three-dimensional holographic past
life memories, which were evoked instantaneously.
When you say past life memories, do you mean autobiographical memories,

(23:57):
or are you talking about memories of what seemed to be like different lives?
No specific autobiographical memories specific
autobiographical design my model can explain
that as well yeah but at that time they
were purely autobiographical for instance there was one
classic example where he places the electrode on

(24:17):
this woman's brain and she goes oh my
god i'm back in my kitchen 20 years
ago or whatever and she could hear a conversation her
next door neighbors were having literally word for
word then she see here's her son calling her
and what penfield did is he took the electrode off
the exposed temporal lobes this person and she said what did you just do it

(24:38):
stopped and he distracted her spoke about her son and then without her knowing
he placed the electrode back on the same point and took her back to the point
again she said what did you just do the memories are back again now towards
he reproduced this many many times and towards the the end of his career,
he argued that the human brain actually records every single sensation we have, but we can't access it.

(25:05):
And as Penfield said, what is the principle of the brain using all this processing
power to have memories that we can't recall?
As you know, we have episodic memories. We have what's called charge memories.
These are sometimes where suddenly you'll be walking along the street and
then suddenly for no reason whatsoever you're catapulted back
to a period of your past and you just remember it and

(25:28):
it's normally completely arbitrary it's not
a moment in your past whereby somebody gave you news that your family had died
it's normally a really prosaic incident in your past now esther salomon who
was a russian psychologist call these things charged memories and in fact in
her book she her book is called a series of moments which is about

(25:50):
how life is just a series of moments that are linked by our life narrative.
They concluded that we seem to remember everything, but we can't access it under normal circumstances.
Now, we know that these memories can be accessed using hypnotism because,
for instance, in the book, I cite evidence from people taking hypnotic regression,

(26:11):
where they can regress somebody back to a point in the past.
Like, for instance, I did an event last year and I will be doing another event
in the Coachella Valley in California in a few weeks' time.
And there was an incident that took place there, I think in 1973,
where a group of school kids were hijacked and the driver was kicked out the

(26:31):
bus and the bad guys drove these kids out into the desert and they buried the
bus and kept the kids in the bus, which is an aside story.
But they needed to find out more
about the what happened during the incident because
they had the driver they hypnotized the driver back to
the time when he was driving the bus and the driver was able to recall the car

(26:54):
coming in front and recall the number plate of the car and from the number plate
they were able to then go find out and rescue the kids now this means again
that we have memories that are there and are active, but we can't access them.
So keep that in mind. So we have all our life memories in three dimensions that
can be recreated like a simulation, like a virtual reality version of your life

(27:19):
that you really think you're living it again.
Now, the other thing I said in near-death experiences were that people have
panoramic life reviews where they see their life flash before their eyes.
Then we have the issue I I mentioned about time slowing down during incidents of fear or great stress.
Like I cite a lot of examples of the work of a guy called Albert Heim,

(27:40):
who was a mountaineer in the 1890s in Zurich.
And he did research on people who'd fallen off mountains, mountaineers who'd survived.
And the vast majority had panoramic life reduces as they were falling.
They nearly all reported they saw their past life in detail.
Tale so i thought to myself wait a

(28:02):
minute what if when we
if we link all these things the time slows down and it
slows down to such an extent that in the final second of your life you could
live a whole lifetime so imagine you know final second is 20 years now the reason
i mentioned this again is a great instant interest to you i would imagine is

(28:24):
the reason i came to this conclusion was, again, I have a term called serendipity.
Or synchronicity, sorry, whereby circumstances just seem to come to me when
I need somebody, they appear in my life and they will give me information I need.
And it's a really true story. I was working home in Horsham where I was living at the time.
And I'd started writing the book and I didn't know where I was going with it.

(28:47):
And I got particularly interested in Deja Vu.
The phone rings, pick up the phone and it's a recruitment consultant.
Now I work at, or I used to work as and management consultant,
compensation and benefits.
And this lady phoned up, she was from an agency and she said,
Tony, I don't know if you're available for work, but I've got a potential contract
for you that you might be interested in.
And I said, well, yes, I'd love to be, but I'm taking time out because I'm writing a book.

(29:10):
And she said, what are you writing about? And I said, well, I don't know where
I'm going with it at the moment, but I'm really fascinated by temporal lobe epilepsy at the moment.
It seems to be the driving thing is I'm focusing in on the neurochemical correlates
of temporal lobe epilepsy.
And she went really quiet and she said, can we meet up for a coffee?
And I said, yes. And I met her at the Copthorne Hotel near Gatwick Airport.

(29:34):
And I met her and I walked in, she bought me a cup of coffee and she said,
I couldn't mention in the office, but recently I've been diagnosed with temporal
lobe epilepsy and everything you were telling me I've experienced.
And I said, please tell me, how did you first discover it? and this is just
extraordinary. She said it was the most weirdest event of her life.

(29:55):
She was going to see a business client and she was in their canteen.
And the business client went up, bought some tea, sat down.
And as the business client's sitting opposite the table, my friend who I call
Margaret, it's a pseudonym, and Margaret is sitting and she feels a snap over her ear.
And she looks out and the other woman had stopped moving.

(30:15):
She'd literally stopped stop moving and she could hear this low humming sound
and then she's looking around she's going what the hell has happened and then
she looks at the other woman again and she realizes she hadn't stopped she was
moving incredibly slowly.
And she said to me, and this was so important, she said to me,
I watched as the tea came out the teapot, the spout, came down really slowly.

(30:37):
I saw the surface tension as the tea hit the surface of the cup.
And she said, I could have been there for days, weeks, months, years, a lifetime.
I have no idea how long I was away for.
Then there was a snap over her ear. the person continued pouring
the tea looked back and said are you okay she'd had a petty malabsence

(31:00):
she'd been away for 0.5 of a second but she
said it could have been a whole lifetime and then
i turned around to her and i said and i just so you
must be my daemon which will explain nation i must i turned around i
said do you get deja vus and she said my god i get deja
vus to die for and i thought her wording was fascinating and
she said i have deja vus that i know what's going to happen in for the next two

(31:22):
seconds maybe and i'll
come back to that later so i then put that together and
i thought maybe when we die we go
into a temporal lobe seizure whereby time dilates
and the last second of your life could be
a lifetime so what would fill a whole lifetime panoramic life review view so

(31:44):
what if the panoramic life review that near-death experiences have is literally
a fast forward of a recording of your life because everybody says i saw it flash in front of my eyes.
Imagine that in a real death experience the life doesn't flash it's literally
a minute by minute recreation of your life from the moment of your birth to

(32:06):
the moment of your death or your death circumstances.
So what evidence would we have that when you're living that second life, that that's true?
And I'd argue we have absolute evidence for it.
70% of the population of this planet have evidence for it.
It's called déjà vu, or more accurately, déjà vécu, already lived.

(32:32):
Because if you are living your life again in a simulation of your life,
there will be times when you'll come across a set of circumstances that you've
lived before that you remember from your previous life.
That's a déjà vu. It's exactly what it says on the tin. It's exactly what people
describe when they say, I felt that I'd been there before.

(32:55):
I had done this before and maybe many, many times.
Now, what is even more intriguing is that I have people who who have contacted
me subsequently that not only have deja vu sensations as part of their pre-aura
seizure of people who have migraine and people who have temporal lobe epilepsy,
but also these individuals tell me they know what's going to happen next.

(33:18):
And there's one young guy who is literally a rocket scientist who contacted me.
And he said to me, he has a tumor on his pineal gland.
And he said he had deja vus whereby he knows what's going to happen for the
next next 10 or 15 seconds.
I then asked him and said, well, why don't you do something?
Why don't you say something? And he said something very pertinent.

(33:40):
He said, if I did, I'd change the future.
And he said to me, he said, for instance, if I'm having a deja vu now,
and I know what you're about to say next, if I turn around to you and say,
this is what you're going to say, you're not going to say it.
You'll say something completely different. So I've changed the future.
And this is when I stopped bringing in Everett's many worlds interpretation
of quantum mechanics, The idea of multiple universes, the idea of Stephen Hawking

(34:04):
and Thomas Hertog's top-down hypothesis of quantum mechanics and cosmology.
So the evidence is that we live our lives again.
Now, again, I used to do a regular radio program on BBC Radio Merseyside,
and I did a program on Deja Vu, and somebody phoned in.
This is fascinating. fascinating somebody phoned in live and they
said what that person's talking about on the radio is

(34:25):
so true and then what happened this guy he was watching tv and he knew what
was going to be said next on the television and he walked out of the living
room left his wife in the living room walked out the living room and then he
had a glass front door and he said he watched somebody walk past and somebody
walked past again and then he went upstairs and realized he could prove.
That he was perceiving the future so what he did was and it's fascinating he went back downstairs

(34:48):
and stood outside of the living room door until he knew what his wife would
say when he walked in through the door wrote it down on a piece of paper folded
it walked it in she said the words and he handed her the piece of paper that
to me is absolute evidence.
If ever you needed it, that déjà vu can be precognitive. Not all déjà vus are

(35:08):
precognitive, but some of them can be.
So we then have the idea we're living our lives again and again and again,
because I argue at the end of the second life, the same thing happens.
So what happens in reality is we cheat the ferryman. We never die.
You know, the old Greek legend is that you have an oboli, which is a small coin

(35:29):
that was placed under the tongue of the corpse or over the eyes of the the corpse.
That was to pay Charon the ferryman, to take you over as a shade into the land
of the dead, the Elysian fields.
And you had to pay the ferryman. I believe you cheat the ferryman.
We all cheat the ferryman. We never get there. We never pay him.

(35:50):
And again, it's fascinating that in Greek legend, when you went the other side,
you could also go back and live your life again.
You had had to drink from what was called the river of forgetting,
the river Lethe, and you would drink water, which would wipe all your memories
clean, and you'd go back and live your life again.
So this is a known thing, and it's been known throughout history.

(36:11):
So what I then argue is we live our lives over and over again.
And at the end of each life is then in a smaller piece of time,
you live your life again.
But it gets more complex than that. And this is where we bring the
daemon in because i use the analogy of
a third person computer game okay remember
years ago lara croft you'd pay tomb raider what happens is you start tomb raider

(36:35):
you switch the computer on and imagine a virtual reality version of tomb raider
where you know you're lara croft on the screen but you can also see around okay
switch on lara croft is born she's what i call an edelon.
She's living the first life her consciousness has
just started at the point of her birth or when the machine

(36:56):
pitch switches are on you make her as
the game player run down a corridor go into a room a big monster comes out and
kills her so what happens in the gameplay then you start the game again don't
you your on-screen entity has died your edelon has died and you start the game
again and you start her life again as a brand new edelon who has no memory of her previous

(37:17):
experiences but you as the game player now
have some memories of the previous life so you
guide the edelon on screen to
not go into that room where the monster is and you go down another corridor
and you get eaten by another monster come back to the start this i believe is
what is life life is a virtual reality simulation of your life that contains

(37:42):
the The outcome of every single decision you can possibly make,
it's already programmed in there.
And again, if people are going to be turning around and say,
oh, this is utter kike, it's quantum mechanics.
It's exactly Stephen Hawking in his top-down hypothesis, the last paper he wrote,
he argued that everything that can happen is already programmed in to the universe

(38:05):
digitally, mathematically.
And all we do is we collapse the wave function of the particular reality that
will anticipate and accommodate our decisions.
Now, again, if you know from quantum mechanics, all subatomic particles are
either waves or particles.

(38:26):
And when they're a wave, they are a statistical wave. They don't have any tangible existence.
They are a mathematical statistical wave until they are observed.
And when they're observed or measured, the physicists call it collapsing the wave function,
which is men means a an anticipatory potential

(38:47):
becomes a point particle located in
one position or another i believe this is how
consciousness reacts to the external reality
it it creates it collapses the
wave function to fulfill your decision so your decision now
might be this tony pete he's talking a load of rubbish and
you get up and you storm off and you create a new reality now

(39:08):
now moving back imagine the
scenario that you're dying and you're playing your game as
an edelon the part of you that is
your game player that remembers you've lived this
before is your daemon your daemon is your immortal you your daemon is the version
of you that's outside of the game that plays each game and each game it learns

(39:32):
more about your life and each game it It knows more about its environment,
and it can move the edelon to new lives, to new locations.
I mean, I'd argue, for instance, there'll be people out there,
and I'm sure you've had that sense, and you meet somebody for the first time, and you know them.
And you know they're going to have a great influence on you for good or evil.

(39:55):
And there's this little voice in your head that's going, stay away from this
person or try and find this person out.
And occasionally we have glitches in the matrix where we remember or what actually
I argue it's to do again with the structures of the brain.
Brain deja vu is effectively you as
an edelon edelonic consciousness which ordinarily is

(40:17):
in the in the dominant hemisphere of the brain accesses the
the the the information field available to the daemon which is in the in the
non-dominant hemisphere it's like feedback going across the corpus callosum
and you suddenly get this memory and sudden recognition and you're You're accessing

(40:38):
your own higher self's thought patterns.
So the daemon and the adelon are both you. In fact, the immortal you is the
daemon. Now, where do I get these terms from?
The daemon and the adelon are specific terms I use.
They are from ancient Greek, which then moved into the Gnostics,
which were a schismatic Christian group in the first few centuries after the death of Christ.

(41:02):
They had the concept of the daemon and the adelon. they argue
that you have your own immortal self and you
have this self that just lives life linearly they're the
terms they used edelon comes from the greek edos or edelos which means icon
same root word as in icon as in iconography and edelon is literally a facsimile

(41:26):
copy and it's a facsimile copy of the immortal you which is the daemon now again
in my book the daemon as you know,
I discuss in great detail how
this model can be found in virtually every single culture on the planet.
And in fact, not only this, but this model is the thing that people in esoteric teachings are taught.

(41:49):
I've had access to a lot of magical groups, groups that do magic, you know, proper magic.
And they've approached me and said, my God, do you know
your book has actually explained our models there's
a group called the servants of the light as an example this
is something that is known this is something that has

(42:10):
been known for millennia and i'm
writing about it now but i'm linking it now to science and
i am the only person on the planet that's doing this
and that's why i'm ignored well okay
so well done for laying that out like that that's you've done a good job there

(42:30):
so in people people listening are watching this they've they've got this this
is the context i'm talking about and a couple of things say you know to mention.
Know from my own experience one of the things that i you know rep when i came
across your work some of the things that seem unusual about it like this thing

(42:55):
about time you know the very very subjective.
Nature of time that subjectively you can experience eternity
in a moment there was a time in my life where i was quite into using ketamine
and now that lasts about 10 minutes maybe 20 20 minutes maximum and at the end

(43:19):
of it you're completely back to normal but within that,
10 20 minutes you are completely transformed
it was you know it
was the first time i had ever completely disappeared but
still been there you know everything in the
external world had gone completely apart from

(43:40):
light it's just sort of this
really gorgeous light and i was
there and still there and it was all very very peaceful
and stuff i mean i've had also had experience where
i've seen all sorts of bizarre things as well you know you do see
things but it's ketamine is very unlike any other psychedelic it's had someone

(44:01):
describe it if they're psychedelics were kind of family this is the kind of
weird uncle you know that like i don't know radagast in lord of the rings you
know that kind of crazy wizard that's got hair full of bird poop and stuff.
And so you know if i talk about one particular incident i it's quite a nice thing to put on

(44:24):
music when you do ketamine music's incredible on ketamine and I put on a piece
of music that I knew lasted about 18 minutes and I experienced it it's I mean
it felt like eternity it's just absolutely eons eons of time.

(44:45):
But then I, you know, when it was all over, I knew it had only been 18 minutes
maximum because of the length of the song.
So I, you know, I know that you subject your own direct experience to time can
be so massively changed that that's, you know, part of your hypothesis.

(45:05):
Well, what is it? It makes sense. I want to put him very much for a second and you continue,
but ketamine, There was a neurophysiologist at the Maudsley Hospital who,
in the late 90s, wrote a paper on ketamine and its association with the near-death experience.
And he argued that although ketamine is a horse tranquilizer,

(45:29):
effectively, and is synthetic, its chemical structure is very similar.
It works with the NMDA receptors in the brain.
And he argued, Carl, oh, I can't think of his surname now.
It'll come to me. And it was a very influential paper because he was the first
person to argue that the near-death experience has so many similarities with

(45:54):
the ketamine experience.
And it's extraordinary. And in my latest book, which I'm literally finishing
the next day or two, I focus in on this in greater detail, you know,
the neurophysiological aspects of this.
This so ketamine i mean people have told me you know you have power and
you have panoramic life you have time freezing you
have all these incredible sensations that

(46:15):
make you realize that the brain processes reality and certain substances can
then play around with that processing and open up all kinds of vistas that you
are not aware of and to just argue it's an hallucination i wrote a book called
opening the doors perception a few years ago and i argued you know what people
turn around and say and dismiss it and say it's it's an hallucination that explains

(46:37):
nothing it's a label i call it the labeling theory of science the idea give
it a nice name make it latin or greek and it sounds even more impressive in
fact i call it idiomatic idiomatic science.
In that you know if you have idiot you
know idiomatic my brain's gone there yeah it but it's the idea that if you have

(46:57):
an illness that has idio idiomatic on it on the front what the doctors are actually
saying is they don't understand it they have no idea what it is and it's the
same with hallucinations you know we until we know what a hallucination is,
how can we say that hallucination is is
anything but an alternate perception that's an alternate reality yeah

(47:17):
that the brain is processing you know we we argue
that the definition of an hallucination is that it's sure it's
one person but if two people share a hallucination they've
got a wonderful term for that they call it a folio dirt yeah going back
to your what you know you were talking about naive realism
at the beginning of this conversation i mean idiopathic that's

(47:38):
the word idiopathic yes that's right yeah you know
when thinking contemplating things like naive realism most of
everything is a hallucination anyway so so
i think what i'll
do is uh if i i'll just describe my temporal lobe seizure because it kind of

(48:01):
ties in quite a lot with this stuff so as i said i'd never heard this happens
a couple of years ago i'd never heard of temporal lobe epilepsy or those kind
of seizures didn't even know we had a part of the brain called the temporal lobe.
But i have had a lot of deja vu in my life tons of it you know and some really
like long ones where you I mean right almost where you feel like oh I you could

(48:28):
just describe what's just oh this is yeah but you never quite gets on the tippy tongue,
interesting my wife said she's never she's never experienced deja vu so I.
You know, I don't know what it's like. She's not done that because she's a first timer.
Maybe. She's lived a wonderful, virgin life. People don't have Deja Vu.

(48:49):
30% of people don't experience it. Right.
So I think when you've, I wonder what it's like, because I don't know what it's
like to have never experienced Deja Vu, but for anyone listening or watching,
if you've never experienced Deja Vu,
it's not like you vaguely feel like this moment's happened before.

(49:09):
Is actually you know this has
happened before and it's unfolding and you're just completely
awestruck it's just the most extraordinary thing so
there's nothing metaphorical about it and the word deja vu has become quite
you know if something happens again you know you're back in the the same pub
having the same conversation with somebody like oh deja vu we're back here you

(49:31):
know it's become quite lax in common parlance but we're talking a strict here
as well to make a differential.
Is that that is not that person the
version they use there is not deja vu
the definition of deja vu which was put forward by a guy
called oh you see he's he's based
in seattle it'll come to me again vernon nepe and

(49:53):
vernon nepe is professor vernon nepe
and i'm paraphrasing it now but the
definition of deja vu is a memory
of an event or a series of
events that took place in an undefinable period in your past so in other words
it's undefinable in other words you can't remember oh we're back in the pub

(50:16):
again specifically you don't remember where you remember it from and And that's so important.
So please go on. Yeah.
I've also, since the age of 19, had regular classic migraines where you get
the kind of shimmering rainbow lattice. Where you get the break down of the stoma.

(50:39):
The first time that happened to me when I was 19, you know, this little thing
appeared and then it just grew.
And all of a sudden, half of my visual field had disappeared.
And it was just a shimmering lattice of rainbow colors. And I just,
I said to my friend, oh, this is weird things happening.
And he said, oh, in about an hour, you're going to get a really bad headache.
And I was like, yeah, whatever.
And then I did, and I've had them about four a year ever since then.

(51:05):
And I think stress is a trigger, but one of the things I was talking to a doctor,
friend of mine about temporal lobe seizures and an epilepsy,
and she said, they're kind of like.
The migraines are like baby versions of this. It's on a continuum.
Yes, it's what I call, again, I'm sorry I keep jumping in here.

(51:27):
In my book, Opening the Doors of Perception, I present what I call the Huxleyian spectrum.
And the Huxleyian spectrum explains very precisely the neurological correlates
of classic migraine as the classic migraine moves into a temporal lobe epilepsy.
Temporal lobe epilepsy then at its extreme levels moves into schizophrenia.
For you and there are overlapping areas

(51:48):
for each of them where you're experiencing and
what is happening is i argue that the doors of perception being
open more and more each each level triggers now
again i work with and have worked with many years now a number of temporal people
who experience i always try to use the term people who experience temporal over
epilepsy and one of them is a guy called myron dial who's a very famous american

(52:12):
artist and he has been experiencing temporal lobe epilepsy since he was six years old.
And by the way, he has a daemon, and his daemon is called Charon,
which we'll discuss later, because I also argue that what you're doing is when
you're on the Huxleyian spectrum, your doors of perception are opening and the
daemon is more imminent in your life.
The daemon can more instruct because it can manifest more.

(52:35):
I also argue, and I'm bringing into here autism, Gershwin syndrome.
And what's the other thing that I think is particularly relevant
to this is is dementia and alzheimer's
my my mum has really advanced alzheimer's at
the moment i mean she's had it for about eight eight
years i think she's pretty much at

(52:57):
the end of her life we're kind of expecting
her to to die yeah i
don't know in a in a few months or something like that
as well yeah yes i know i'm reading
your book your mum had alzheimer's yeah so going
back there's a it's a funny there's a there's such a
so many synchronicities with reading your book it's a bit a bit crazy

(53:18):
really so yeah the the other experience i will get into after describe this
one is i've had a couple of schizophrenic experience thankfully short-lived
schizophrenic episodes so i'm i'm i'm right along your spectrum of yeah Yeah.
So going back to the TLE. Yes. So the temporal lobe epilepsy.

(53:42):
And the classic migraine. Yeah. Classic migraine.
Never heard of these temporal lobe epilepsy things, but I had a lot of deja vu.
So I was cooking supper, started having deja vu, didn't think much of it because,
you know, that had happened quite a lot before, but this didn't stop.
And I started to think, you know, I don't know, this is a little bit weird.
And I was, you know, I'm making supper for my wife and kids, took it out to them.

(54:06):
And I said, I've been having deja vu now for like five minutes nonstop.
And they were like, okay, all right. And then, and I said, I mean,
I'm okay, but it's just a bit weird.
And then, you know, I was eating my supper, didn't stop. I play a musical instrument
called a Cora, which is an African harp lute instrument, started playing that

(54:30):
kind of to calm me down, I think, but it didn't stop.
And I had 30 minutes of nonstop deja vu, which that was pretty disconcerting.
And then I had this period of just, it was like a cascade of memories.

(54:52):
So you know that feeling where you're remembering a dream, you suddenly remember
the dream you had last night, you know, oh, wow, I was doing blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
I call it a cascade because it almost felt like I was downloading just so rapidly,
tons and tons of memories, hundreds of memories.
But they all had that flavour of remembering a dream. It was like remembering

(55:15):
a dream I'd had. That was the flavour of it.
And most of them were not autobiographical. They had nothing to do with my life.
Completely unfamiliar scenes and things. And it wasn't like I was remembering
bits of my life, which is odd.
And also some of them were abstracts.

(55:39):
Things like abstract patterns and things that had the flavour of remembering
things, which was going as really weird.
Then I, and apparently this is, I learned later on, this is a classic symptom
of temporal labour epilepsy.
I felt like the world was going to end any second.

(55:59):
They call it the sense of impending doom. I mean, I was certain that,
I'm not talking about like a nuclear bomb.
I'm talking about the fabric of
reality ripping apart type of thing i and it
was not a nice feeling i was kind of bracing myself
for this really worried about my family

(56:20):
and you know everyone i loved it i was like oh my you know but i didn't quite
know how to i just i think i was saying i think something like really i probably
didn't say that like didn't want to worry my kids but it was a horrible feeling
and this is when i said earlier that i was a bit kind of shaken up by this experience,
all the deja vu and the weird memories and all that stuff,

(56:43):
were disconcerting, but this was the thing that really freaked me out was that
feeling that this, everything's going to end right, you know, in the next minute.
Then I had this surge of rush through my body.
It went down, whoosh, through my body.
And I suddenly was like, oh my God, I'm going to throw up. And I ran to the
toilet, nothing, I wasn't actually sick, nothing came out.

(57:07):
And so I was left at the end of this experience. The whole thing was like sort
of 30, 35 minutes or whatever.
I didn't know what on earth had just happened.
And I just said, I've got to go and lie down and just kind of relax.
Cause I just had this experience. I don't quite know what, what on earth it was.
When I was lying down, my wife sent me a message saying that she'd looked up

(57:31):
on Google and found this thing called temporal lobe epilepsy,
and she said, it sounds exactly like my mom's my wife's a real researcher she
always loves getting on and looking things up and i was reading these descriptions
these people i was like whoa,
that's exactly what happened so then i phoned a
doctor went to see a neurologist talked to
him had an mri scan epilepsy one of

(57:53):
the tests where you know where you wear electrodes all over your
scalp for 24 hours and those kind of things nothing came
up thankfully you know i didn't have any of those
i didn't have a brain tumor or those kind of things which was you know i was
a bit worried i had that something like that so yeah and then this this friend

(58:13):
of mine i was told them about that they they said oh you should read this book
you know that you'd written the diamond damon,
and as i say you know i put off because i became hyper vigilant of deja vu because
as you say the deja vu is an aura of a seizure.
And for those listening, an aura is when you're about to have a migraine or

(58:35):
a seizure, you start to, some phenomena happens like with the,
with the migraine, you get the shimmering thing in your visual field.
At that moment, if I take a couple of paracetamol and lie down in a dark room,
I can actually stop a migraine from happening.
I've got to act really early on.
So when I was having deja vu, I was like, oh man, is this going to turn into

(58:57):
a seizure? and I became honestly quite paranoid about déjà vu.
And since then, I've actually, I've had quite a lot, some, some large deja vu
moments where it's felt like, Ooh, now this could, this could go into a seizure.
But what I do is I, I reckon in that moment, if I just stop everything I do,

(59:18):
go and relax somewhere and it doesn't go any further.
So that was, that's my, my temporal lobe seizure.
You know a lot of other the
descriptions I read in your book for example you know
some people have some really awesome experiences with temporal lobe
epilepsy epilepsy and they they have all sorts of blissful experiences I wouldn't

(59:40):
say my it was like that was more kind of interesting but it had this horrible
flavor of doom to it but there you go that's that's my my seizure there There
were so many important points you were making there.
I mean, I have suffered, for want of a better term, classic migraine most of my life.

(01:00:01):
And like you, I get the scotoma, I get the breakdown in my visual field,
and I get the sensation of deja vu.
And I sense I know what's going to happen next as soon as this starts.
And I don't know about you, but I get tingling in the end of my fingers.
Which is really weird, and tingling in my lips.
And I just know. No, but I haven't had a headache for years.

(01:00:22):
It is literally, I just get the aura. So I now have classic migraine with aura and that's it.
But it's one of the points you were making there I thought was particularly
fascinating was the tuning in, and this leads us into the broader hypothesis now,
the tuning in to other information that isn't part of your autobiographical memory that happens.

(01:00:47):
For instance, once when I was in an Aura state, I was at work and I was working
on the computer and suddenly...
I'm looking down at an elderly man reading a newspaper,
and I realize I'm sitting in a tree about 20 feet above him,
and then I hear a siren, and I look up, and it's this huge square,

(01:01:12):
and I instinctively knew it was somewhere in Latin America,
probably Buenos Aires, and there was an ambulance.
I can see it in my mind's eye now, and there was an ambulance going along the
edge of the square. And then I came to, and it's like a hypnagogic image or
a hypnopompic image where you go, well, what the hell was that?
And then two weeks later, it was even weirder.

(01:01:34):
I'm again working, and I'm looking up through a glass table at an elderly woman
with dyed pink hair, and she's got a cup of tea, and she's putting the tea down on the table.
And I can see through the table her putting the tea down, as if I'm a cat or something looking up.
Now this intrigued me because i thought what am

(01:01:55):
i tuning into here and i experience quite
regularly as i will guarantee you do and i guarantee a
lot of people do hypnagogic imagery and hypnopompic
imagery so hypnagogic imagery is just before you go to sleep
you will see imagery normally it's faces in profile
and they will turn and they may speak to you
they may look at you and it kind of hits

(01:02:16):
you in your kind of periphery sensor
sensorium because you don't even necessarily appreciate
mentally it's happening you see it but
you don't mentally appreciate and the moment you
put your attention onto it it fades so you have to allow it to draw out now
i've discussed this with a guy called andreas mavromatis who wrote the definitive

(01:02:38):
book called hypnagogia he's a greek psychologist and his book is well worth
reading it's absolutely extraordinary and it explains in great detail how hypnagogic imagery works.
But when you're seeing this, you are glimpsing as if you are attuning into somebody
else's life, somebody else's world.
Now, one of the major critics, I am going somewhere with this,

(01:03:01):
by the way, I'm not off on a tangent.
One of the major criticisms of my work is that people say your hypothesis of
life after death cannot accommodate past life.
Cannot accommodate hypnotic regression to past lives and past life memories.
Memories and it can't because if you're living your life over and
over again you wouldn't you won't have past life memories

(01:03:24):
because you've only ever been you but my new developing model
which is within the new within the
book cheating the ferryman is i argue and
this to do the science that this is more difficult but
i argue that there is the the the daemon well
there's the on which lives one life then there's
the daemon that lives multiple lives and plays

(01:03:47):
the game till it lives the perfect life and when
it manages to live the perfect life it moves on to
something else just like connor's does in groundhog day when
he lives the perfect day yes such a good film i
watched that with my kids just the other day i i
interviewed funnily enough this is a great aside story the
guy that wrote that book it's a guy called danny rubin people

(01:04:09):
turn around and say it's the guy that did ghostbusters he didn't
he adapted it from a story written by
a guy called gary rubin who's a lecturer at harvard
and gary took the the his idea to the studios and then the guy from ghostbusters
came along and wrote the story so it's not his original story but and again

(01:04:33):
he i've interviewed him and he explained that he came across like my work like you did.
And he gave a copy of my book to all his friends for Christmas about 15 years
ago. Because he said, this is the guy that's done the science of Groundhog Day.
And in fact, the Russian edition of my first book is called Groundhog Life.

(01:04:53):
It's amazing. But the idea is that, of course...
Shall I just say, people might be thinking this, that when you were talking
about living one's life again, your life over and over again,
you know the question might be people are asking well
where does that lead and you were saying until you

(01:05:14):
get a better and better version of your life until that's until what because
in in groundhog day he relives it over and over again till he just becomes a
super awesome person and then one day he wakes up and it's the next day and
his life moves on so in your hypothesis
where is this all heading that's that

(01:05:35):
is an area i i i have difficulty
in going to because i genuinely don't know yeah what
i what i'd like to believe is is that it it is akin to but not the same as the
buddhist concept whereby over multiple lives you become an avatar but not an
avatar a buddhist savra whereby you have lived the perfect life and then you

(01:05:57):
can choose to go back into your life to help others.
That would be an advanced person.
Of course, this all takes place in what the Tibetan Buddhists would call the Bardo state.
Of course, I argue that when you have all these multiple lives,
it's like the Bardo state. In my new book, I do the anthropology of it and the
anthropology of near-death experiences.

(01:06:17):
It's very equivalent to the Bardo state.
You live the life many, many times till you live the perfect life.
Then you're allowed to move on.
And I argue you're then allowed to move on to whatever you anticipate will be next.
I was talking to a friend earlier on today about this. I call this egregorial life.
Again, I'm off on a tangent, one of my other books now, but I have a concept,

(01:06:41):
what I call the egregorial, which is the mind created fanaron,
the mind created reality that is external to us that we project outwards.
And it was a guy called an american philosopher called
charles pierce that came up with the concept of the
fanaron and remember i was saying before about we
collapse the wave function of our anticipations i believe

(01:07:02):
we do that all through our lives we are you we are anticipating
and creating the world around us as is
everybody else so it doesn't mean you you can influence everything because
everybody's co-creating it so when
you die properly because remember at the end in the end the
ground groundhog lives at the end when you got all these hundreds
and hundreds and as Danny Rubin told me he said

(01:07:23):
his original plan was 6,000 lives I think that he
was supposed to live 6,000 days and do it
again and again and over and over so at the end you
then move on to what you anticipate is next
so if your your fan are on and your worldview means you go to the Christian
heaven you will experience the Christian heaven if you believe in reincarnation

(01:07:45):
you will be reincarnated as somebody else it's all it's all a fact and how i
explain this is is now moving on.
Because i argue that above the daemon is another consciousness which i call the uber daemon,
And the uber daemon is my equivalent of the Jungian collective unconscious.

(01:08:08):
It is the information field that holds all the data and information for everybody's
lives, everybody's multiple lives, everybody's multiple lives all through history.
And that itself is an entity.
And what happens is when you have past lives and you go back into earlier lives in other centuries,

(01:08:32):
you're bypassing demonic consciousness
which is your lives and you
access total consciousness of humanity
the oceanic consciousness and that
consciousness is is where all that information is held
i then argue that above
that is a concept i call the godemon and

(01:08:55):
the godemon is the or ain't sof that you
have in the kabbalah it's the concept of brahman
you know within hinduism and vedanta it's
the consciousness that is everything it is the consciousness field that creates
the universe it is the consciousness field of the universe and certain advanced
human beings can actually access that information field where they have total

(01:09:20):
knowledge and people talk about this you know,
where they suddenly feel they know everything.
And for a split second, it's what Yahya Bomei used to talk about.
You know, an EVE famous line, you could go insane by just looking at a pewter dish.
You know, the idea that the insanity leads here because we, our brains cannot
take in all that information.
But what I argue is that people who have temporal lobe epilepsy can access demonic

(01:09:46):
consciousness of their own lives, but also can leech in to the uber daemon. Thank you.
But when you get schizophrenia, you're accessing the mental capacity and the
information field of the uber daemon and maybe even the godemon.
And it literally drives you crazy because the information is just flooding in

(01:10:09):
from everywhere and you cannot handle it.
Again, Rainer Johnson, who was an English physicist who became schizophrenic
when he he was older, he came up with this wonderful analogy.
And he said, becoming schizophrenic is like you've lived your life in one of
those Irish round towers.
And you've lived in the top of the tower and you have five windows that you

(01:10:32):
look through, which are your five senses.
When you acquire schizophrenia, it's like you've found a trap door in the roof
and you've climbed through and you're looking out at realities it really is.
And of course, we know from autism, we know this is the major problem autistic
children have it's called the wild world syndrome,

(01:10:53):
it's because if the information is coming in so great
they go hysterical they scream they shout it's a guy again there's an american
psychiatrist who's come up with this hypothesis called it the hyper world syndrome
and i argue then the same happens with alzheimer's disease what happens in Alzheimer's disease,

(01:11:13):
as you know, is that the neurons of the brain are being destroyed by things
called amyloid plaques, which get in the brain, and they literally explode the neurons.
And by exploding the neurons, I argue they're opening that consciousness to
a much wider information field.
And that's why people, when they

(01:11:34):
have Alzheimer's, they start to be rather like people who hold autism.
They start to have other skills. My mother, it was uncanny.
And again, if anybody's interested, and you should read this with your mother.
There's a friend of mine who's written a book called The Gift of Alzheimer's,
a lady called Maggie Latorrelle.
And she applies a lot of my models to her work. The experiences, her mother was psychic.

(01:11:57):
Her mother was seeing things that were happening miles away.
She was seeing her dead daughter. her she
she her mind was just melding out of
her brain and accommodating everything so now
we have a whole world view that everything
is consciousness everything is
made out of data everything is binary

(01:12:19):
code everything is literally information so
what we think is a physical reality out there we know
for instance that the chair you're sitting on is 99.999999999996
empty space and the empty space that's there the physical bits within that are

(01:12:43):
quarks and electrons and quarks are point particles there are six of them and
they're point particles which means they have no extension in space.
The other objects, electrons are the same. They're point particles.
So however much you zoom in on them, you never see a sphere.
But the other objects that are in there are fields, which is also out there.

(01:13:07):
And fields are created by things called bosons.
And the classic boson is the photon, the photon of light.
Now, so everything you see out there is literally because photons of light are bouncing off objects.
A photon of light can only ever travel at the speed of light.
It cannot travel any slower.

(01:13:27):
And it's a point particle. So A, it has no extension in space.
And B, from its point of view, there is no time.
Because as you know from Einstein's theory of relativity and his theory of time,
and his general theory of relativity, if you're traveling at the speed of light, you have zero mass,
which a photon has, which means it's it's not

(01:13:47):
physical and everything is a
permanent now for it so there could be a photon
of light that left a quasar three billion
years ago that hits the eye
if you're looking through a telescope or whatever and you
see the light coming from a photo from a quasar as far
as that light is concerned it's the same second

(01:14:10):
millisecond when it left the quasar and
these odd objects are the things that create everything
around us what is out there is not
what we think it is and as bill hick
said matter is just energy slowed
down and we are one consciousness experiencing itself

(01:14:30):
subjectively there is one consciousness which is what irvin schrodinger argued
and we are just watered down versions of that we are waves from that singular
consciousness And it goes through from the Edelon to the Daemon to the Uber Daemon to the Godemon.
So this model can literally, I can explain absolutely everything.

(01:14:55):
Now I'm either completely mad or my model works.
And so far, nobody has been able to come along and criticize my science.
My science is watertight. everything i've just told you is based upon academic
work academic reviews peer-reviewed papers and absolute research.

(01:15:16):
Your description at the end reminds me of the tantric philosophy,
philosophical description of consciousness.
How can one consciousness be all of these different things, seemingly different things?
Water can be a vapour, a liquid and a solid in ice, but it's all water.

(01:15:40):
They're completely different. you know ice is so different to steam for example
and liquid but all the same thing,
and something else you said i might come back to me well what what i'll just
i'll just i'll describe this schizophrenic yeah please episode i had because

(01:16:03):
this is interesting in relation to the.
Daemon the daemon again this is
before i'd read your book so there's been a a couple of times in my life and
the i think these this is cannabis induced i mean i've had got a lot of experience
with a wide variety of psychedelics ayahuasca dmt ketamine mushrooms lsd and these.

(01:16:28):
Kind of things and nothing has taken me
you know to the this kind of schizophrenic edge
like cannabis has so i think cannabis some
people are fine with it and some people aren't and i'm just one of
those people that's i'm not okay with it so i you know
there are sort of two five-year periods where i smoked

(01:16:48):
a lot of cannabis you know sort of daily and after
about five years both times i had a a kind
of schizophrenic episode i had about 15
year break of no cannabis in between
those two periods the the
first time the so this
was this is my early 20s the tv and radio

(01:17:10):
and stuff started talking to me about how i was going to die and
all sorts of weird nasty coded messages and just
fortunately i you know i moved out of london the social
group i was in and in that i just
stopped smoking cannabis and that for 15 years and
i was fine never came back but then i had this
this other ex this other experience which again was a couple of years ago and

(01:17:33):
it was just after i had the the seizure and i'd been ill so i hadn't hadn't
smoked and i was vaporizing cannabis at the time in the eve every evening it's
a kind of like evening ritual.
And i i'd been ill so i hadn't vaped any cannabis for a few probably five days

(01:17:54):
or something like that couldn't sleep one night one night and i thought i'm
just gonna get really stoned and knock myself out because i just you know it
was late and i just wanted to sleep.
So because I hadn't had any for a few days, you know, you kind of build up this tolerance to cannabis.
If you take a few days off, you can get really, really stoned on an unusual amount.

(01:18:17):
So, you know, I was really quite high. And I was watching this YouTube video with my wife.
And there was this cut scene that happened twice in the video.
And it was just like water going down a waterfall.
It was quite a distinctive cut scene and it

(01:18:39):
happened twice and i was like oh no you know because i'd
had the seizure fairly recently you know
and i thought oh here we go i'm about to have a about to
have another seizure basically i
think i had a kind of a panic attack i mean my as you were saying
i bet your fingers tingling my my fingers started
tingling my hands were tingling and i was

(01:19:01):
was very concerned i was going to have a another
seizure and funnily enough the next
day my wife when i
was able to tell my wife you know about all these things
that had happened this evening i'm about to describe she said
oh no that cut scene actually did happen twice in the thing so i didn't actually

(01:19:22):
have deja vu this this damn thing did actually happen twice and it just caused
this you know reaction in me but what happened was and this the everything,
so as i say you know i've had a lot of experience with different psychedelics in my life.
I sound like a totally crazy guy but anyone who knows me well will probably

(01:19:46):
say i'm they know me to be a very very grounded sane and earthy person so for
anyone listening to this who doesn't know
me, which is probably most people, I was familiar with non-ordinary states of consciousness.
But this was unlike these other types of experiences.

(01:20:08):
And what happened was everything got collapsed into complete synchronicity.
Anyone who was speaking it was like this and
when i later read about philip k dick and his
valis thing i was like i was like
oh my god so he you know

(01:20:28):
i've written the biography of philip yes i do yeah i do so this what i was described
at the time was an alien i couldn't i couldn't talk about this at the time because
it i this was i was able to describe it you know the next day and because I
was just completely overwhelmed by this experience.
An alien intelligence was talking to me through other people.

(01:20:53):
So my wife or anyone, when they opened their mouth to speak, it wasn't them anymore.
It was this alien, this other intelligence was literally talking to me in plain
English through their voice.
And if I watched anything on YouTube or TV or my phone,

(01:21:13):
it was this alien intelligence this other intelligence
i call it god or an alien it felt
like an alien intelligence something other was talking
was talking to me through synchronicity
symbolism through the video any
audio i listened to any music or to

(01:21:35):
calm me down my wife put on this kind of guided meditation thing
on spotify that we put on for our kids you know
this guy talking of that
every action anybody did any sensation
in my body it was like all phenomena had been collapsed into communication direct
communication with this other entity that was that sometimes was talking to

(01:22:02):
me in plain english but most of the communication was just through synchronistic symbolism.
I mean, I can't describe it any better than that, I'm.
Begin with i was fighting it and it was very unpleasant
i was panicking and then i thought well
what if this okay well this is clearly isn't working i'm

(01:22:23):
working myself into state what if this actually is happening
so there is another intelligence some
alien intelligence god or whatever this thing is literally talking
to me let's just go with that like i
was thinking about shamanism i think well if you know i'm having a
shamanic experience here what would a shaman do
where they'd be a shaman they'd be like okay well this is real i'm

(01:22:45):
gonna just go with it see what see what's happening then
when i stopped resisting it actually turned into
a really quite an amazing experience that was very profound and wonderful but
basically this entity was guiding me through this initiation which i couldn't

(01:23:08):
really understand i just had to give into it basically
and this went on for i don't know about three hours something like that then
i fell asleep and i woke up feeling okay but really shaken the next day immediately
stopped cannabis that's it done for the rest of my life you know i haven't smoked

(01:23:29):
cannabis for a year and a half or something.
And i don't intend to ever again but i so i mean i woke up and i was the next
day i was like i went right to the edge of madness there and you know it was
not i didn't i didn't want to go mad you know i've got young kids so i was like
there was it was a very interesting experience.

(01:23:52):
But the thing that was interesting about it as compared with other ones which
made me think about schizophrenia was that there wasn't the expansive sense of say if you
are tripping on ayahuasca or
something you have this you know or dmt you
have this you perceive vast spaces you

(01:24:13):
know millions of miles across kind of thing this was
very very claustrophobic and two-dimensional it was
just there was nothing in the universe other than me and this other entity no
and nothing else existed so it felt very i don't know egocentric trick would
be the word that came to me at the time so and it you know i've got friends that have.

(01:24:40):
Had schizophrenia or do have schizophrenia and you know i was describing this
and it was all very familiar to them i think that's that's about it but you
know i recognized it had the same flavor as this thing that happened to me in
my 20s which was like okay well i know what's happening
here I just yeah so there was that experience and when I read your book about

(01:25:03):
the the Damon talking to people and communicating to people was like oh whoa this is kind of.
It felt like very much like that, but it was, this was not a clear community.
They basically, the community, the communication was you're undergoing something
here, which you, you can't understand.
You just got to let go. And I trust this basically.

(01:25:27):
So it wasn't like I got specific information about the, you know,
anything like the future or precognitive thing.
Well to me one of the things here is
a concept that i envisaged or
discussed many years ago what i call the cacodemon you know and the argument

(01:25:48):
that the the daemon is altruistic or the daemon has your own best interests
at heart we've no way of knowing it might be morally completely ambivalent and
you know there are certain daemons for instance i always used to
think about the fact that when
the Stauffenberg plot took place for the assassination of Hitler in 1944,

(01:26:09):
I think it was, and Klaus von Stauffenberg, and Stauffenberg placed the bomb
in a particular location in the Wolfsleur or wherever it was.
And Hitler quite by chance stood up, and his leg kicked the bomb behind the pillar.
So when the bomb went off about five minutes later, The blast was taken by the

(01:26:32):
pillar and didn't kill Hitler. That's crazy.
So there you have a scenario of, was that Hitler's daemon ensuring the survival of its Eidolon?
But that was not to the world's interests at all.
But it wasn't being altruistic. It was being totally egoistic in its approach,
but it was still ensuring its own survival within the game.

(01:26:56):
And you know the argument like is dna is
dna sentient and if dna and i have discussed this
in one of my books if dna is sentient you know
have you read um the cosmic cosmic serpent
jeremy narby no okay it's a very interesting book on his experiences with dmt
and ayahuasca and he argues that a lot of the symbolism when you take dmt particularly

(01:27:22):
the snakes are actually symbolic of and are actual.
Entities that are effectively dna and
it's the dna communicating with us now of
course we know from the work of people like richard dawkins and the blind watchmaker
and various other things you know that that we effectively are carriers of dna

(01:27:45):
we we are the we are the the machines that allow DNA to be immortal.
In other words, DNA needs us to continue existing in one way or another.
Now, could this, could again, the machine elves that Terence McKenna talks about,

(01:28:05):
are these, again, forms of sentient DNA that we see?
And I was reminded when you were talking earlier on there about 5-MeO-DMT,
the Sonarion Toad and the effects that has.
Associates of mine who have taken both DMT and 5-MeO-DMT very much describe

(01:28:27):
that whereas you seem to access the daemon during During DMT or maybe even the Uber daemon,
when you take 5-MeO,
you lose your whole sense of individuality and you become a singular entity.
You realize that you are part of a much greater something that is you and that

(01:28:52):
we are all differentials from that same huge sentience, whatever that may be.
And a friend of mine was saying it took him ages to come down from our 5-MeO.
You know you really changed his world for you
totally so i i interviewed a
friend of mine on this podcast for maybe three years ago
called donald clark if anyone is listening wants to go back to that but he took

(01:29:15):
him about two years to recover from 5meo dmt it's actually it's not something
i've tried you know before i die it's on the to-do list but i'm not in a rush.
It's very interesting because in my new book, I say the foreword's being written by Dr.
Michael, and Pascal did a fascinating,

(01:29:37):
wrote a fascinating academic paper last year where he interviewed Ibn Alexander,
the NDE, the doctor that had meningitis and had a full near-death experience.
Proof of life. Proof of life. Yeah. Was it called proof of life?
Proof of heaven. Proof of heaven. Proof of heaven. That's it. Yeah.

(01:30:00):
Well, anyway, because he was interesting because he was a complete skeptic and
didn't believe in life after death or near-death experiences.
But what is fascinating is that Pascal did some research and discovered that he had also taken 5-MeO.
So here we had a perfect person who'd had a near-death experience who'd taken 5-MeO-DMT.

(01:30:24):
Even Alexander had done 5-MeO-DMT before having them. So this is in my new book.
Comparisons between his experiences. He's in the unique position of being able to compare the two.
And it's really interesting. Well worth getting hold of Pascal's paper on this, but very interesting.

(01:30:46):
He also, Pascal also has another paper he wrote with David Luke,
also on somebody else who'd taken DMT and has had the similarities with DMT and these experiences.
I just want to say just quickly that when I, so I've read even Alexander's book.
When I read that, so I have drunk ayahuasca a few times and smoked DMT.

(01:31:13):
When i read his description of his near-death experience it was like i it just
sounded so like a dmt uh inspired thing i was like wow this is yeah you know
you know it's whole the whole incident of the where he's in the mud,
and he's bubbling in mud he's like an entity inside mud and you know this kind

(01:31:38):
of visceral stinking foul world he finds himself in and then he rises above
us and he has the bizarre sequence,
where he's on the wings of a butterfly yeah and he meets his dead sister and
he or he meets initially this beautiful young woman who has the most startling

(01:31:59):
blue eyes who talks to him And I don't know if you know the story,
because then when he came to,
he subsequently discussed with his parents this person, and he discovered he
had this younger sister who died that he never knew about, or an elder sister
who had startling blue eyes.
And this very much convinced him that whatever he was experiencing, it was extraordinary.

(01:32:23):
And Eben helped. I had a chapter on his experience in one of my earlier books,
and Eben actually proofread it.
For me to make sure i'd got the nuances correct now these
things are evident that there's such a linkage between the
dmt experience and again i have a whole chapter in the new book on dmt entities
and ufo entities and ufo abductions and i have the wonderful opportunity in

(01:32:50):
six weeks time to be doing work
with whitley streber whitley wrote the introduction to one of my books but
I've never met him, but I will be meeting him at contact in the desert.
And also with a guy called, oh geez, they made a movie of it called fire in the sky.
He was a logger up in Oregon somewhere, I think, and he got abducted.

(01:33:13):
And I'm going to be doing a, doing some work with him as well.
And it'd be interesting to discuss the similarities with.
Alien experiences and alien encounters, because I think the beings are identical.
They're the same beings. They're just manifesting in a different way.
And I call these egregorials again.
And I believe that they are entities that have independence of us,

(01:33:35):
but don't. They need us to come into existence.
They need our fear, for want of a better term,
to manifest themselves in this reality
which which is very intriguing this
and also i believe that the
near-death experience is directly facilitated by dmt for
example are you aware of the work of jimo bojijin

(01:33:59):
the university of michigan no okay jimo
bojijin is a neuroscientist and in
i think it was 2017 17 they were euthanizing
rats they were they were actually testing rats and
the brain patterns and and what chemicals released in the brain of rats and
they killed them and the the the brain then died and then about 15 seconds after

(01:34:24):
the brain had died after they'd been beheaded the brain started again massive
activity all over the brain and they believed this was the near-death experience.
And then they discovered something extraordinary because doing a series of other
experiments, they, for the first time, discovered DMT in the brain of a live rat.
For the first time, they discovered DMT in the brain.

(01:34:47):
So when people turn around and say DMT has been found in the human body in various
places, yes, it has, but it's now in the brain. pain.
Not only that, but there seems to be a direct linkage between a release of DMT
at the point of death and the near-death experience.
Again, in my new book, I have an extensive ... I don't know if you know,
in my new book, I've read virtually every single academic paper that's been

(01:35:10):
written on near-death experiences for the last 50 years.
I've read hundreds and hundreds and hundreds, and some of the research that's
been done. Again, I think.
The only person that's actually drawing in from all
these different sources the information and again
the world doesn't listen to me because i don't know why the world is not interested

(01:35:31):
in what i'm writing about because i i've got now in the new book i've got probably
40 pages of references 40 pages of academic papers that people can go back and
read and make up their own mind as to whether the conclusions I'm coming to,
I very much work upon the, the Marcello Trui.
Argument of extraordinary claims need extraordinary proofs, you know,

(01:35:55):
and I believe that is the case, you know, we have to, you can't just make these
statements, you've got to prove them.
And yet there's other authors out there who make these wild,
weird statements and the books sell by the shed load.
And I've already always thought, you know, what I should have done is pretend, pretended
i was channeling this all from the planet thog yeah yeah
and i was channeling it because then

(01:36:17):
everybody believed me and i'd have sold shed loads of books
and just made half of it but that's the world
that's how the world works and i i still like to
believe that i have i have the academic credibility in
my work that you know people people cannot argue
with my point of view they can't it you know
i have i have all the information i

(01:36:39):
need at my fingertips and because i have a very weird memory i'm not a very
easy person to argue with because i can normally close my eyes and remember
the paper and the quote and everything else i picked that up you are definitely
a memory mutant a walking wikipedia yeah it is rather weird.

(01:36:59):
So we're just because we're we've only got
a small amount of time left i wanted to get this in
that so you know
we've talked about all of this stuff all of these these hypotheses you've come
up with how has this changed the way you live so i know for example you know

(01:37:20):
i've looked on your facebook a little bit and and you know listen to conversations and i know.
Synchronicity is something that is quite a big thing for you and you know my
question about that is you know i've had quite a lot of synchronicities in my
life but i but i've also know people that have kind of gone really deep into

(01:37:42):
synchronicity to the point where,
it's become ludicrous in my opinion i mean i that is a value judgment on my
my behalf i think I think there's a level at which you can just become a genuinely
mad person with synchronicity.
The other thing is that, you know, how is this understanding of the daemon?

(01:38:08):
How does that inform your life?
Has that changed your life in the sense of the way you live day to day?
I'm chucking a few things out here. And also this thing about the groundhog
day thing, living the perfect life, cheating the ferryman.
I mean, what's the journey been like for you in terms of who have you become

(01:38:31):
as a result of this? And how has your life changed?
That's an excellent question. question, and I need to unpack it in various ways.
The first point I always make is that, do I believe in cheating the ferryman?
Do I believe in the Damon-Adel-Ondaier?
Do I believe in the Huxleyan spectrum?

(01:38:51):
For me, they're intellectual exercises. For me, they are things that the evidence
seems to suggest that this is a model that has sense to it and it has support.
To say I believe in it, I don't believe in anything in the sense I'm not a believer,
I'm not religious, I don't have any ulterior motives in terms of my writing.

(01:39:14):
Also, I'm also incredibly willing that if somebody comes along and points out
that something I've said is wrong or incorrect, I just amend it.
Because I'm a seeker after truth, I'm not trying to prove anything.
So that's the first thing. But then we start getting into how has it affected
my life well in very strange ways in that there's things that have happened in my life,

(01:39:39):
that I cannot explain, that have evidence to me of my own daemon.
And you know from the introduction in the book, I have a section called Footprints in the Snow.
And by that, I mean evidence of the existence of my own daemon.
And there were two things that happened that I immediately recall that still

(01:40:00):
shake me to this day because it is just extraordinary.
When I was researching the first book, I needed to understand about mitochondria.
I was particularly interested in the cell structures and mitochondrial DNA,
the way in which it carries through the female line.
Now, I then went to my bookcase because I needed to reference mitochondria.

(01:40:26):
And I thought to myself, the only person I know that's going to have written
anything about mitochondria is Richard Dawkins.
And I have all of Richard Dawkins' books.
I then looked at the books and And I thought, yeah, probably,
let's check. I think he's probably going to have written about mitochondria,
probably in The Blind Watchmaker.
This is my copy of The Blind Watchmaker.

(01:40:47):
I opened the book, and I suddenly noticed something I never do. I never dog-ear pages.
I went through the book, and I noticed that one page had been dog-eared.
Okay? Now, I then remembered and suddenly I had a memory flashback and I remembered

(01:41:07):
when I read this book and it was on a beach in Greece in around about,
I don't know, the early 1990s.
And my earlier self.
I'd got up and my daemon, for no apparent reason, had dog-eared that page.

(01:41:28):
Me, in the future, to find it.
Because I read down the page and look.
Mitochondria, of which I've now highlighted. I then went to the back of the book.
It's the only time that Richard Dawkins ever mentions mitochondria in any of his books.
So my earlier self had gone, I'm going to show you that I'm going to guide you,

(01:41:52):
and I'm going to leave you a clue for your future self to find.
Then I got so interested in synchronicities and strange events that I was interested
in writing up about things.
I got very interested in time, and I needed to get hold of a book called Man

(01:42:13):
and Time written by J.B. Priestley.
Now, as you know, I've written a book on J.B. Priestley subsequently.
So this was 1999.
Couldn't find a copy of the book. So I went to my library in Horsham.
And I went to Horsham Library and asked whether they could order a copy of Man

(01:42:33):
and Time for me from any of the local libraries.
They said, there is no copy of it in West Sussex. books, we're going to have
to order it from the British Library in Boston Spa.
We'll put an order in for it and then we'll let you know when the book has arrived.
So a few weeks go by and then I get a phone call from the library,

(01:42:57):
the book's arrived, do you want to come and pick it up?
So I go in and I pick it up, arbitrary, one day I just go and pick it up.
Leave the copy, this is my own copy of the book by the way, not the original,
of the one I'm talking about. I then left it in my study.
And then one night I'm going to bed and something in my head said,
pick up Man and Time. So I pick up Man and Time.

(01:43:19):
Now, as you can see, this book has got.
319 pages in it so 319 pages
in this book i start flicking through the
pages at random so then i open
the page and for some reason i stop
at page 91 which is
this page here okay yeah my wife's

(01:43:43):
sitting in bed next to me and i start
reading this at random so it's a random page random day
and i start reading it and briefly
he's trying to explain how time and light and
time travels so you're seeing a star as it was this is
what it right he writes this is clearly illustrated by
a figure and an explanatory based on by james a

(01:44:05):
coleman in his relative relativity for the
layman now this book was written in 1964 and
relativity for the the book that he's quoting was written in
1957 this is the quote the
cold that priestly took from coleman this
figure shows the earth the star betelgeuse in the
constellation orion the hunter and old aberron in taurus

(01:44:29):
the bull betelgeuse and old aberron are 352 352 light years respectively from
the earth also old aberron is about 200 light years from betelgeuse or betelgeuse
now suppose there's a a blowout on Orion on the night of March the 17th, 2000,

(01:44:49):
caused by Betelgeuse exploding.
I turned around to my wife and I said, what month is it? And she said, it's March.
I said, what date is it? And she's looking at me as though I'm completely crazy.
And she said, it's the 17th. I said, what year is it?
She said, it's 2000. You know that. I said, what?

(01:45:11):
Said you're a mathematician can you explain to me
how all the variables of me
ordering the book me get them getting the
book back to me from boston spa in yorkshire then
then having the book for three or four days at the library me
deciding to go in on one random day to pick the book
up bringing the book back leaving it in my

(01:45:32):
study for random for days on end then arbitrarily
picking it up tonight on the
evening on the night of march the 17th 2000
and then a random page opens to
give me the exact date and the time that to
me was extraordinary so the next few days we we're in

(01:45:53):
cheltenham visiting my brother-in-law we're in a bookshop and my
wife turns around to me she goes i'm fed up with all these synchronicities you're talking
about she said what book are you you looking for second half bookshop books
piled everywhere and i said i'm looking for a
biography of william blake is what i need and
she went oh for christ's sake and it was in her
eye line a book by william blake she picked the

(01:46:14):
book she threw it across the room and stormed out now that is the kind of thing
that really i find are significant synchronicities they're significant they
mean something and they're supplying
something and then you get the really really weird thing of 1111.
Now I've argued in my books, the 1111, the reason that people see 1111 all the

(01:46:36):
time is it's a group of, of vertical lines.
You know, so you just notice it's, it's, it's, it's not that weird until my wife pointed out.
And she said, you see, keep seeing 1111 everywhere.
And I said, yeah. And she said, you don't see the main thing, do you? And I said, what?
And she said, what's the title of your book in Dutch? Thank you.

(01:47:00):
11, 11, 11. It means life after life after life in Dutch. Wow.
Then this weekend, it was my 70th birthday on Friday.
We went up to my old university, Warwick.
We booked into the hotel and the room that we originally were booked into,
we couldn't get into because the door was locked. The lock wouldn't work.

(01:47:21):
So they changed our room. They moved us to room 11.
I then we then go outside to get the
bus to the university because we said we wouldn't drive in we get the bus
the next morning bus number 11 we then
go into the university and i decide
to go to the library and just have some look at the library and i

(01:47:41):
wanted to take a photograph of the staircase in the library as i
pick up my phone take the photograph of the library i see
the time 11 minutes past 11 and i'm
going is this just i'm noticing
it or is it is
it more and i genuinely don't know and i find it fascinating but finally has

(01:48:02):
my idea of the daemon and living your life over and over again influenced my
life yes i'm now very aware of people that come into my life that are people
that have come into my life over the last few years that i knew were going to be
important to me and i knew it by just seeing
them like there was somebody i was
speaking at an event there was a young girl at the event and

(01:48:24):
i knew she'd speak to me and she's now become a really good friend
of mine and it's these things that
happen that makes you realize you've done this
before and your daemon is guiding you you've just
got to listen to the clues the hints get you through and i genuinely believe
that is what is happening whether it's real whether it's genuine i don't know

(01:48:46):
but it works for me but then again if this universe is my universe and i'm creating
it and i'm collapsing the wave function of this particular universe it's not at all surprising.
That i can influence it because it's my universe and you're part of my fanaron.
Well, it's been a real delight to speak to you, Tony. Thank you so much.

(01:49:10):
It's been really, really good. We must meet up sometime. Really, really good.
Yeah. And you must get along to a breaking convention. That's what I was thinking.
Yeah, I need to get there. You'd love it.
They now do it at the University of Greenwich.
Last year, it was at the University of Exeter.

(01:49:30):
And I think they're probably going to start doing it at the University of Exeter.
So you get hundreds and hundreds of people turn up. Yeah.
You get all the real major, major lecturer, people from around the world speak there.
Yeah. And I think, you know, for those listening, breaking conventions has a
lot to do with psychedelics, but there's other stuff plugged into it.
And I think, you know, one of the things about your work, it,

(01:49:56):
you know, I've also been very much into meditation for 30 years or so.
But it's the psychedelics stuff is
what really connects with your work
and there's a kind of recognition there and one
of the last things i wanted to say this i'd written
this down to say this is you know this is related

(01:50:17):
to memory you were talking about memory a lot earlier in
our conversation and one of the kind of hallmarks of
of a psychedelic experience is i believe that the
the word they use is an anemonesis of loss
of the reliving of the regaining of memory yeah it's like holy shit this is
familiar you know you're having the most bizarre experience and if this is you

(01:50:42):
know a substance you've never tried before or you've never tried psychedelics
before your very first experience you're like oh my god you know it's it's the,
No reference points to anything you've ever experienced before in your life,
but at the very same, it's a complete paradox.
Same time, you're like, this is so familiar.
It's platonic, isn't it? I mean, it's Plato that first came up with the concept

(01:51:05):
of the loss of forgetting.
And of course, Philip K. Dick discusses this extensively in his exegesis.
And it is a fascinating idea. and i think it's very much the equivalent of drinking
the waters of the leaf the river of getting you know you you you there's is
it memnos sony the goddess of memory and myself there's somebody you need to

(01:51:29):
get on this show from the office a friend of mine called sarah janes.
Who's written the most wonderful book on ancient greece
and memory training and everything
else as well and dream training she does dream work and
she's going to be doing an event this summer in in athens and
she did one last year as well really really fascinating it'd be
well worth there's a number of people that i think that probably you might be

(01:51:51):
interested in getting on yeah please do email me
them you know like a contact detail we'll do
because they're all they're all part of the breaking convention circle as
well we all need convention which happens every two years
and i can introduce you to a lot of very interesting people
there great wonderful for just at
the end your website for anyone who wants to find

(01:52:12):
out more about your work antonypeake.com yeah and Peake is P-E-A-K-E as in Mervyn
yeah or Tim Peake the astronaut but yes wonderful all right thank you so much okay yeah okay see ya.

(01:52:36):
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