April 4, 2023 • 30 mins
Learn how innovation can lead to a stronger economy through improvements in technology, health, climate change and other solutions. In this special edition of "Face to Face," UC Davis Chancellor Gary S. May sits down with national economic leaders for a discussion about technology and innovation. Jed Kolko is the undersecretary of commerce for economic affairs of the United States. Deborah Wince-Smith is the president and CEO of the Council on Competitiveness. The Council on Competitiveness is a nonprofit based in Washington, D.C., that brings together people from academia, business, labor and the national labs to increase the United States' economic competitiveness in the global marketplace.
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(00:02):
Hi, everyone.
Welcome to “Face to Face,” a UC Davis podcast
featuring students, staff and faculty innovators.
I’m your host, Chancellor Gary May.
Stay tuned for my next guest.
Hey, Aggies.
This week, UC Davis is hosting the
Phase 2 Launch Summit of the
National Commission on Innovation
and Competitiveness Frontiers, where
(00:23):
some of the nation's key leaders
from business, labor, government
and academics have come together to
focus on our nation's innovation and
competitiveness in the global
economy.
Today, for this special edition of
"Face to Face," I'm joined by
Undersecretary of Commerce for
Economic Affairs of the United
States Jed Kolko,
and President and CEO of the United
(00:43):
States Council on Competitiveness
Deborah Wince-Smith.
Jed, Deborah, thanks for being here
with me today on "Face to Face."
Welcome to UC Davis.
Thank you.
So I typically in these
sessions — we ask questions.
I interview the guests.
But today, I'd rather just let the
three of us have a conversation
about some of the issues that we're
going to be discussing during the
meeting today. Issues
(01:05):
around competitiveness in the global
marketplace and how universities and
businesses team together
for innovation.
So let me just start by asking,
why are you here today?
Why UC Davis, Deborah?
Well, we're here at UC Davis
because, one, this university
has a storied history.
You know, it's one of our leading
(01:26):
universities in agriculture, animal
husbandry. But beyond that, you
now have created the capabilities
in health, advanced
technology across the board.
But you also have very innovative
models for your partnerships.
I mean, we have the Mondavi wine
institute here.
What you've done with your
infrastructure, Aggie Square,
and very importantly, how
(01:48):
you're educating the next
generation of a diverse student body
and inclusivity.
So you kind of have all the
ingredients of a
leading university that's
changing and developing a great
economy here in
this part of California and the
country.
Thank you. Very nice words.
Jed, what made you accept the
(02:08):
invitation to come?
The Council on Competitiveness is
bringing together leaders
across corporate America,
academia, government
to really think about how all of
us connect in order
to foster a culture of innovation.
This is work that is not
only about government.
It's not only about universities.
It's about bringing us all together.
(02:29):
And that's what we're doing today
here at UC Davis.
Absolutely. Thank you.
So one of the topics at today's
meeting is place-based
innovation. And Jed, I know you're
going to give a keynote on that
topic. Maybe you can tell the
audience what does that mean?
And what does it mean to you, and
why is it important?
So when we think about place-based
innovation from the
federal government perspective,
(02:50):
it tends to mean two things.
First, is directing investment
to particular places
for particular reasons, and the
second is investments
that help narrow some of
the geographic gaps, geographic
inequalities that
persist in this country.
So some examples of programs like
these are the programs
(03:10):
that we have at Commerce like
Internet for All, really bringing
broadband access to
all those parts of America that are
underserved or unserved
in terms of broadband access.
But it's also identifying places
that have unique capacity
for innovation in order
to fund things like new
(03:31):
tech hubs.
And think about where
we can help build up some of our
semiconductor manufacturing
capability. So all these programs
are place-based.
And there's really been
a shift in how
economists and policymakers
think about place
and take it
(03:52):
much more seriously
than in the past.
So Deborah, that seems to be right
in the wheelhouse of the council.
Right? So tell us about why
we think that's an important topic.
Well, it is. And in fact, it's
new language, but it's a back
to the future story for the Council
on Competitiveness, because
we were the organization
(04:12):
bringing together universities,
industry, labor, national labs,
who really created the thought
leadership and action around
what was called clusters of
innovation.
Back in the late '90s, we studied
various regions of the country to
understand what was it about
these regions that enabled them
to transform their economies and
move into the innovation future?
(04:33):
San Diego was one of them.
And now, of course, today
we do have more
clusters in the country around
specific areas of excellence or
capability.
I mean, we know the culture of
Silicon Valley in terms of startups
and venture capital.
But we've seen, you know, in the
last 30, 40 years
continuing hollowing out
(04:55):
of our manufacturing base.
Yes, a lot of that was
20th century manufacturing.
But we really are committed
to building up,
unleashing the power
and potential of all these regions
in our country that have really been
kind of left behind.
And they haven't been part of the
innovation transformation.
(05:16):
And not only is it an issue
of justice and equity,
it's a really hard core economic
and national security issue.
Because we have to have our
whole population engaged in this,
not just, you know, maybe 10%.
But things do occur
in places and
regions. And it's how we connect
them and grow them — is really
(05:38):
at the heart of place-based
innovation.
Yeah. And for so long,
over recent decades, especially with
the rise of the internet and
commercialization of the internet,
there was this sort of incorrect
belief that place would stop
mattering.
There was the book "The Death of
Distance." There were all
these notions that
you could do anything you wanted
(06:00):
anywhere.
But guess what?
Like everything still happens
somewhere. If anything, geographic
inequality has gotten worse, not
better.
It's not that things have spread out
more evenly.
It's that things have gotten, if
anything, more geographically
concentrated.
So if anything, place has become
even more important, despite
all these predictions that
(06:20):
the internet would make —
the end of distance would make
cities disappear, none of
which came to pass.
And of course, the book "The World
Is Flat." The world is not
flat at all, as we've seen
in many, many ways.
Same predictions happened for higher
ed. And, you know, the place-based,
residential university
was also thought to be on its way
out. We were glad that it's not.
(06:42):
Our university is made up of many
students, 40,000 of them,
and they're a principal
part of our audience for "Face to
Face." Can you talk about the
importance of students and pushing
innovation and the envelope for
innovation in their creativity and
their educational experiences?
Well, I think the first thing about
students — and this is what's so
great about being a student but also
(07:03):
a lifelong learner — is yes,
they're curious.
They haven't had their views of
things completely molded.
And they also have more
risk-taking perhaps than older
people do in their life journey.
And so they are really poised
to create whatever the
future is going to be.
And that is why being
(07:24):
in an academic environment is
so exciting. Yes, they're learning
skills and how to learn
and knowledge, but it's also what
they're going to do with that when
they leave. And a lot of those ideas
and pathways germinate
while they're students.
And so the energy and excitement —
I'm sure you know that as chancellor
— of engaging with
your students all the way up
(07:45):
through, you know, advanced
researchers, is very exciting.
It is. It's one of the reasons I'm
in this job. I love being around
those students. Any thoughts, Jed,
on that topic?
Yeah, so many of our ideas come
near the start of our careers,
and students, of course,
will be starting their careers at
the cutting-edge of whatever
field they're in.
But I think also we
(08:06):
know from lots of economic
development research that some of
the most profound innovations come
from bringing together
ideas or best practices
from different fields and
connecting what we
know from a
certain kind of manufacturing with
a certain kind of business process
from some other area.
And, you know, the
(08:28):
world that students experience
is before we all get siloed
and split off. Now
as an economist, you know, there are
days when I spend all day long
around other economists. And
economists have their charms, but
that is not the way to foster
innovation.
It is when you are around people
(08:48):
with ideas from completely
different fields and hear about
something from outside
your narrow discipline or what you
know well — that's where so many
innovations happen. And
that happens in student life
when you really are exposed
to people thinking about all kinds
of different topics. And that's very
hard to replicate
(09:10):
in the professional world.
It is very hard to recreate,
you know, that kind of openness and
exploration and
exposure to lots of different
fields that you get
in student life.
Yeah, I would agree.
Go ahead, Deborah.
I was just going to add that
I'm one of the people who thinks the
liberal arts education is
(09:31):
one of our great strengths.
And that it's during those years
where you have the opportunity to
study whatever it is across the
liberal arts curriculum
and, yes, fuse it and
understand how
literature and how history
and all these things really, yes,
shape our world.
(09:51):
But past is prologue.
And I am concerned that in
many universities, the
specialization occurs too
soon.
And often that's true in
STEM-intensive universities, because
there's so much to learn.
But I will say that as a
student, yes,
you can become a STEM leader
— and you can go back and learn some
(10:12):
of these things, whether it's
Shakespeare or whatever
it is — but if you don't take
some of the STEM courses
as an undergraduate, it's very hard
to go back. So this concept
of STEAM and how we merge
that is very, very important.
And I think some of these
requirements that may seem
old-fashioned are very
relevant to the future.
(10:33):
Yeah, we're very proud of UC Davis'
comprehensive nature.
We have more than 100 undergraduate
degrees and more than 90
professional and graduate degrees
across four colleges and six
professional schools.
So students have an opportunity to
mix and match the STEM fields and
the humanities and social sciences
in really creative ways.
And many of our students are double
majors, and majors and minors,
and all sorts of permutations.
(10:54):
So I think that's really, really
helpful. I want to switch gears and
talk about economic development,
which you mentioned very
briefly in your remarks just now.
Can we say a few words
about the role of the university,
government and organizations like
the council in collaborating
for economic growth, both in rural
(11:14):
and small-town environments like
Davis, but also urban environments
like Sacramento and other cities
where we are active?
Well, I think there are two important
ways that universities contribute to
economic development. I think the
one that people
probably think of first is
around innovation and
the development of
new discoveries, new techniques, new
(11:34):
technologies that then have the
potential to be commercialized.
But I think the other is
that increasingly, as
the economy shifts
from physical goods to services —
and 80% of
our economy is about services,
not physical goods —
innovation happens where people
(11:55):
want to live.
And universities
often create communities
that people want to live in.
And so even in addition
to the activities
of universities that contribute to
innovation, universities
also create the kind
of social infrastructure that
attracts all kinds
(12:17):
of innovators
to live there.
And so it's both
essentially supporting the
productive side of innovation
but also creating
the kinds of amenities
that people are attracted to —
is all the ways that universities
contribute to innovation,
economic development.
Great points.
(12:38):
Yeah.
And I would add to that
that universities in many places
are the prime employer
of a region. And in that sense, they
do have both a responsibility
and an opportunity to ensure, you
know, if there's a new innovation,
whether it's in the use of clean
energy or in telecom,
that they're a leader in that.
(12:59):
And then it also, you
know, is in the community.
I think of Virginia Tech,
you know, in Virginia, how they've
done that. And also Georgia Tech.
And UC San Diego
is a wonderful example, because I'm
sort of a Navy family.
I have two sons that went to the
Naval Academy and services.
But, you know, people
don't remember how Qualcomm was
(13:20):
founded.
It's an amazing story.
You know, Irwin Jacobs coming from
MIT. He's an engineer.
He's playing around out there.
He goes for the weather.
He gets a little contract with the
Navy for a little communication
thing offshore — Linkabit.
And the rest is history.
But, you had to have
UC San Diego and all that
technology and leadership
(13:41):
to take that to scale.
And now you have an economy that's
biotech, telecom, etc., etc..
I do think also that universities,
particularly the large ones but
really across the country, are
accepting their responsibility now
to be a beacon
for hope in their communities.
I won't name them, but there are
(14:02):
some universities in our country
that are very distinguished, and yet
the places where they live have
never had any socioeconomic
advancement.
And I think that's something that's
serious for our country.
Because the universities, the
colleges are the spirit
of a place.
I like that. I like that a lot.
(14:22):
The San Diego example is really
powerful.
I think UC Davis, we consider
ourselves
among the leaders, world
leaders in plant health, animal
health and human health.
And we think that's maybe the
place where the next great
set of discoveries that move the
economy and the nation forward might
be. What do you think about that
(14:42):
assertion?
I believe it's back to the point
of, you know, the innovation
often occurs at the intersection,
but it is the conversion.
And, you know, now we're on the
frontiers of synthetic biology,
immunology.
Just going through the COVID
trauma and pandemic, you know —
they're going to be more zoomorphic
(15:04):
viruses, and understanding
that and its relationship to humans,
that's a huge frontier —
unfortunately, not maybe a pleasant
one.
But you are really taking kind
of the core pieces
of convergence with many, many
applications.
I mean, we can't live without food,
water and health.
So that's really the trifecta.
(15:26):
Yeah. And these are sectors that I
think are a great example of the way
that the university both
produces but also creates
a community that attracts people.
Just in my own experience, I lived
for about 20 years in San Francisco,
often worked
in Sacramento, and Davis
would often be the place
(15:46):
where I would buy food
between the farmers market,
the Meat Lab and so on.
And so it is probably the community
where I would most like to
be a home cook — of any place
I've ever been.
And, so again, you know, it's
of course both the science and
innovation side, but it
spills over to create
(16:07):
a community that
attracts people and makes it a
desirable place to live.
Indeed, you'll be happy to know that
the farmers market and the Meat Lab
are still going strong in Davis.
I think a few of our colleagues went
to the farmers market.
Did they over the weekend?
Yes, they knew about it. ...
Yeah.
Yeah.
I want to talk about the future of
innovation a little bit.
What do you think the society, we
(16:29):
as Americans should be doing —
innovators, students
— to shape the future of
work in health care and climate
change and all these issues that are
facing us —
the near future and further out.
What advice would you give to our
community to think about
in facing these issues?
Well, one, I think this generation —
(16:52):
and maybe again, as a back to the
future story of looking
back 40, 50
years — have a real
sense of responsibility.
They are very concerned about the
issues, you know, climate change
and others, but they
want to have careers of impact.
And so the extent of
which, you know, universities
(17:14):
have that opportunity
for them to have co-ops,
to work on projects
that have both a social and a
technological value, you
know, that's going to attract the
best and brightest, I think, into
these field.
But also, I think a challenge
is time.
I mean, we talk about the time
horizon needed to accelerate,
(17:34):
but, you know, big transformations
don't always happen overnight, and
young people have a little bit of
impatience. I know even I still do.
So how you
understand that continuum
of change and progress.
And the other thing that's really
exciting today is I
do think we're seeing the two
bookends of wisdom.
(17:55):
Young people
and people who are at a different
stage either finish their careers
at the end.
And you need both of those for
experience and wisdom and thought.
And so having, you
know, young students work with some
of the more seasoned people is
also a good thing too.
I agree.
Jed, what do you think about thefuture?
Yeah, I think there are a few
(18:16):
important things to support
this culture of innovation.
One thing that
is essential to understanding
innovation is it involves
some risk.
And for
us to have innovation, we
need a system where people have
the support and security
to take risks, whether
(18:38):
that means building
more housing, so
there is affordable housing around
places where innovation activity is
happening.
All of the ways in which
life can be precarious,
you know, takes away the ability
to take risks.
And so there's a certain
set of basic infrastructure
(19:00):
that we need to support
that kind of innovation.
I think the other is
to remind folks that
you don't need to be a scientist
to contribute to innovation.
You don't need to be an
entrepreneur.
You don't need to want
to found
something, and you don't need
(19:21):
to have an innovative idea
to contribute to innovation.
So much of innovation is
the translation
of ideas into
the marketplace, into
society.
And that work really
needs people who are
gifted visually and
have a way with words and can be
(19:42):
able to translate.
So to be the person who can
translate what scientists are doing
to the lawyers
who are
negotiating deals — that's an
incredibly important role in
innovation.
And it is not
only the sort of lone genius
(20:02):
who is looking to take a risk.
Very important point.
There's a space and a role for
contributions from everyone in
innovation.
I agree completely.
Could I add one comment to that, ...
Please. ...
Chancellor May.
The other thing I think is that
often young people
want to work in the startup world.
As you said, they want to go out
with a group of buddies or whatever
(20:22):
and found some — and it's not
necessarily at all in tech.
I mean, I always say years ago,
you know, Starbucks was a great
innovator. They somehow got people
all over the world to spend — back
then, whatever it was, $5 or $6
for a cup of coffee.
I mean, that was an innovation.
But working
for large-scale, successful
(20:44):
companies is very much part of the
innovation journey as well,
because you learn some of the
disciplines, the practices — and
they're evolving.
I mean, they can't function the way
they did in the 1950s.
And I know that from my career,
you know, having been in the
government for some of my career,
starting at the National Science
Foundation.
(21:04):
All the things I learned there, I
still practice in my life today.
And you don't get that in a startup.
I think there's something to be said
for learning how a complex
organization operates and being a
part of that.
We have a feature on "Face to Face,"
which we call the "Hot Seat,"
so — don't be scared.
It's just — we're going to ask you
some questions that we're looking
(21:25):
for very short answers, one-word,
one-sentence kind of answers.
Ready? ...
Yeah. ... Here we go.
What's the most groundbreaking idea
you've heard in the last year?
I think it's the incredible
accomplishment of
the laser fusion energy
accomplishment at Lawrence
Livermore, and that there is real
(21:46):
talk now about having
a functional laser
inertial fusion plant by
2030.
... That's a good one ... I mean,that's one
of the greatest discoveries,
accomplishments really, in human
history.
Agree. Agree, Jed?
I think some of the
ideas that I've heard this year I'm
most excited about have to do
with our cities,
(22:07):
and what they will look like after
the pandemic as more people are
working remotely, as
we have a change in how
we're thinking about office space
and the need for so much more
housing, and some of the innovation
around what our cities might look
like — how we might use our
downtowns, and how we might get
around.
That's another good one.
Thank you. Yeah.
OK, one of the most important
(22:27):
innovators of our lifetime —
who and why?
I'll say two of them.
And they build on others, of course,
back to the point of — I
would say Jack Kilby and Bob
Noyce, because, you know,
not all the invention, but the
commercialization of the integrated
circuit has created our
digital world. And that's why
(22:49):
next-generation semiconductors and
U.S. leadership in it are essential
for our future.
So that was the foundation
of the — beyond
the information age.
You're in my wheelhouse now, so I
can't disagree with those choices.
Jed, what do you think?
So I think less in terms of
innovators and more in terms of
innovations, just because most
innovations come from efforts
(23:10):
of far more people, many of whom
— names we don't know.
I think for me, some of the most
profound innovations have been those
that have made it possible
for women to participate fully in
the paid workforce (23:21):
labor-saving
devices at home, the pill.
All these innovations that
completely changed
the calculation of
education, how to
balance work,
career, family.
One of the biggest sociological
(23:42):
changes in the U.S.
has been the astounding increase
of women in the formal paid
workforce over recent decades.
So I think those have been some of
the most transformative innovations
that I think about.
I would agree — mechanisms for
building equity. We're not quite
there yet, but we are well along the
path, much further than we were.
OK, a little more fun.
Something new you've learned about
(24:03):
Davis since you've been here.
Well, you've set me
up beautifully.
You ready?
One of your anthropologists who's
working down in Peru
has definitively proven
through archaeological evidence
that in the Paleolithic age,
women were also hunters.
They were not just gatherers.
(24:23):
And so that's — and apparently
it's just revolutionizing
that whole field and our
understanding of the role of women.
And of course, in Neolithic
societies, there was much more
egalitarianism.
It wasn't until we had complex
cities and things, we saw this
demarcation.
So women as hunters, not just
gatherers, although we like to
gather still.
(24:44):
That's a great discovery made at UC
Davis.
So that's a much grander,
new realization about Davis
than I've had since getting here 12
hours ago.
Mine was the Davis Co-op,
which had not
in the past been part of my regular
food stops but
will be in the future.
(25:05):
That's a good one too.
What in your mind is the next big
trend in innovation?
I would say it's the
dematerialization, obviously
decarbonization,
but the work that's underway
to remove our reliance
on natural resources
(25:26):
that are in scarcity.
And the example I would use is not
fossil fuels.
I would use rare earths, critical
materials.
You know, we are completely
dependent — even though we have our
own — as is the EU, on
the processing and China.
I mean, they control 90% of the
processing of graphite.
We need — beyond lithium, we need
synthetic rare earths.
(25:48):
And because they're, you know,
building block of, again, batteries,
everything in this digital world.
And so yes, we're
dematerialization, but we still
live in a physical world.
I really don't want to have my
human interactions all in
cyberspace.
But the materials frontier
is huge.
Materials, very important.
Thank you. Jed?
(26:08):
I think across innovation,
thinking about the impact on
the environment and natural assets
will become part of
innovations across the board.
One of the things that we recently
announced out of the statistical
agencies of the federal government
is a long-term plan
to start incorporating natural
(26:29):
assets, natural capital into
GDP — the most fundamental measure
of overall economic activity.
And once you start realizing
officially the value of nature,
that starts to change
all the decisions you make
about what to invest in, how to
innovate, what counts as economic
growth. Right now in our
(26:49):
national accounts, you know, when
you chop down a tree to build a
house, that new house counts.
The lost tree doesn't.
And
with this long-term innovation
in natural capital accounting, we
will count both the house and the
tree. And I think we will see
that more holistic view
of the costs and benefits of our
(27:09):
actions reflected in
what's valued in terms of
innovation.
That's fascinating.
So you can be a good environmental
steward and still contribute to the
economy.
And you would include the oceans, of
course.
That's right. ... Yeah. ... That's
right.
One last question.
This is a little bit personal.
What life experience has shaped
who you are?
Well, I'm a Bronze Age, Aegean
(27:31):
archaeologist.
And so I studied
and live and love the Minoan
and Mycenaean world,
you know, starting about 1800
Before Christ — that's the old
language, of course.
And it's an incredible period,
because they were innovators.
They completely reshaped the
Mediterranean world.
They were also conceptual
(27:53):
thinkers in artistry — women had
a very powerful role in Minoan
culture — but they
created value out of intangible
assets.
So a lot of their wealth came from
selling their beautiful pottery
— became a luxury good,
and they created a great
civilization.
And for me, how this influenced
(28:14):
me, archaeology is about
understanding a culture and
civilization with very little
information and how you connect
the dots, how something unseen
with a little bit of evidence
enables you to imagine and then
understand what really happened.
So for competitiveness work,
you know, there's no magic bullet.
You have to look at all these
different systems and how you put
(28:34):
them together. So it made me a
synthetic thinker.
Great answer. Yeah.
How about you, Jed, what shaped you?
I think one of the things that
shaped me — and this is relevant
for this whole event about
place-based innovation and
investments — is growing up
in a place that had an extraordinary
sense of itself. I grew up in
Rochester, New York, which —
(28:56):
the
part of the city I grew up in
was enough of a small town
that I grew up thinking that a car
horn was a greeting,
someone passing by to say hi.
And Rochester for
decades had been so dominated by
Kodak that that also contributed
(29:17):
to a place having such a strong
sense of itself economically
and culturally, and
having undergone such change,
being tied to the fate
of one big company
that existed in a very changing
field. And so I think that
led to really a whole
career of my trying to understand
(29:39):
why place is important, why
things happen where they do and
not someplace else,
why people move, why people
stay put.
It's interesting how you remember
those things.
The car horn is a greeting of a
different type in a different part
of New York.
And you know where all those optic
engineers went from Kodak?
(30:00):
Many to other startups within
Rochester. ...
Yeah.
Guess where the best ones went? Thisis a trick question.
... Tell us, tell us.
... They went out to Livermore to
work on ... They're here. Oh, wow.How about that. ...
They took the best optic engineers
in the country to go out and work on
the National Ignition Facility.
... Interesting. I didn't know that.
Yeah, well, you know, those are all
great answers. This has been a great
(30:20):
conversation, very insightful and
enlightening.
So I'm sure our audience is
appreciating it. So I want to thank
you both, Deborah and Jed, for
joining me today on "Face to Face."
It's been a pleasure talking with
you.
Thank you so much.
Thank you, Chancellor. Thank you foryour leadership.
I appreciate that.
Thanks to everyone for listening.
Tune in next time on “Face to Face.”Go, Ags!
Hi, everyone.
Welcome to “Face to Face,” a UC Davis podcast
featuring students, staff and faculty innovators.
I’m your host, Chancellor Gary May.
Stay tuned for my next guest.
Hey, Aggies.
This week, UC Davis is hosting the
Phase 2 Launch Summit of the
National Commission on Innovation
and Competitiveness Frontiers, where
(00:23):
some of the nation's key leaders
from business, labor, government
and academics have come together to
focus on our nation's innovation and
competitiveness in the global
economy.
Today, for this special edition of
"Face to Face," I'm joined by
Undersecretary of Commerce for
Economic Affairs of the United
States Jed Kolko,
and President and CEO of the United
(00:43):
States Council on Competitiveness
Deborah Wince-Smith.
Jed, Deborah, thanks for being here
with me today on "Face to Face."
Welcome to UC Davis.
Thank you.
So I typically in these
sessions — we ask questions.
I interview the guests.
But today, I'd rather just let the
three of us have a conversation
about some of the issues that we're
going to be discussing during the
meeting today. Issues
(01:05):
around competitiveness in the global
marketplace and how universities and
businesses team together
for innovation.
So let me just start by asking,
why are you here today?
Why UC Davis, Deborah?
Well, we're here at UC Davis
because, one, this university
has a storied history.
You know, it's one of our leading
(01:26):
universities in agriculture, animal
husbandry. But beyond that, you
now have created the capabilities
in health, advanced
technology across the board.
But you also have very innovative
models for your partnerships.
I mean, we have the Mondavi wine
institute here.
What you've done with your
infrastructure, Aggie Square,
and very importantly, how
(01:48):
you're educating the next
generation of a diverse student body
and inclusivity.
So you kind of have all the
ingredients of a
leading university that's
changing and developing a great
economy here in
this part of California and the
country.
Thank you. Very nice words.
Jed, what made you accept the
(02:08):
invitation to come?
The Council on Competitiveness is
bringing together leaders
across corporate America,
academia, government
to really think about how all of
us connect in order
to foster a culture of innovation.
This is work that is not
only about government.
It's not only about universities.
It's about bringing us all together.
(02:29):
And that's what we're doing today
here at UC Davis.
Absolutely. Thank you.
So one of the topics at today's
meeting is place-based
innovation. And Jed, I know you're
going to give a keynote on that
topic. Maybe you can tell the
audience what does that mean?
And what does it mean to you, and
why is it important?
So when we think about place-based
innovation from the
federal government perspective,
(02:50):
it tends to mean two things.
First, is directing investment
to particular places
for particular reasons, and the
second is investments
that help narrow some of
the geographic gaps, geographic
inequalities that
persist in this country.
So some examples of programs like
these are the programs
(03:10):
that we have at Commerce like
Internet for All, really bringing
broadband access to
all those parts of America that are
underserved or unserved
in terms of broadband access.
But it's also identifying places
that have unique capacity
for innovation in order
to fund things like new
(03:31):
tech hubs.
And think about where
we can help build up some of our
semiconductor manufacturing
capability. So all these programs
are place-based.
And there's really been
a shift in how
economists and policymakers
think about place
and take it
(03:52):
much more seriously
than in the past.
So Deborah, that seems to be right
in the wheelhouse of the council.
Right? So tell us about why
we think that's an important topic.
Well, it is. And in fact, it's
new language, but it's a back
to the future story for the Council
on Competitiveness, because
we were the organization
(04:12):
bringing together universities,
industry, labor, national labs,
who really created the thought
leadership and action around
what was called clusters of
innovation.
Back in the late '90s, we studied
various regions of the country to
understand what was it about
these regions that enabled them
to transform their economies and
move into the innovation future?
(04:33):
San Diego was one of them.
And now, of course, today
we do have more
clusters in the country around
specific areas of excellence or
capability.
I mean, we know the culture of
Silicon Valley in terms of startups
and venture capital.
But we've seen, you know, in the
last 30, 40 years
continuing hollowing out
(04:55):
of our manufacturing base.
Yes, a lot of that was
20th century manufacturing.
But we really are committed
to building up,
unleashing the power
and potential of all these regions
in our country that have really been
kind of left behind.
And they haven't been part of the
innovation transformation.
(05:16):
And not only is it an issue
of justice and equity,
it's a really hard core economic
and national security issue.
Because we have to have our
whole population engaged in this,
not just, you know, maybe 10%.
But things do occur
in places and
regions. And it's how we connect
them and grow them — is really
(05:38):
at the heart of place-based
innovation.
Yeah. And for so long,
over recent decades, especially with
the rise of the internet and
commercialization of the internet,
there was this sort of incorrect
belief that place would stop
mattering.
There was the book "The Death of
Distance." There were all
these notions that
you could do anything you wanted
(06:00):
anywhere.
But guess what?
Like everything still happens
somewhere. If anything, geographic
inequality has gotten worse, not
better.
It's not that things have spread out
more evenly.
It's that things have gotten, if
anything, more geographically
concentrated.
So if anything, place has become
even more important, despite
all these predictions that
(06:20):
the internet would make —
the end of distance would make
cities disappear, none of
which came to pass.
And of course, the book "The World
Is Flat." The world is not
flat at all, as we've seen
in many, many ways.
Same predictions happened for higher
ed. And, you know, the place-based,
residential university
was also thought to be on its way
out. We were glad that it's not.
(06:42):
Our university is made up of many
students, 40,000 of them,
and they're a principal
part of our audience for "Face to
Face." Can you talk about the
importance of students and pushing
innovation and the envelope for
innovation in their creativity and
their educational experiences?
Well, I think the first thing about
students — and this is what's so
great about being a student but also
(07:03):
a lifelong learner — is yes,
they're curious.
They haven't had their views of
things completely molded.
And they also have more
risk-taking perhaps than older
people do in their life journey.
And so they are really poised
to create whatever the
future is going to be.
And that is why being
(07:24):
in an academic environment is
so exciting. Yes, they're learning
skills and how to learn
and knowledge, but it's also what
they're going to do with that when
they leave. And a lot of those ideas
and pathways germinate
while they're students.
And so the energy and excitement —
I'm sure you know that as chancellor
— of engaging with
your students all the way up
(07:45):
through, you know, advanced
researchers, is very exciting.
It is. It's one of the reasons I'm
in this job. I love being around
those students. Any thoughts, Jed,
on that topic?
Yeah, so many of our ideas come
near the start of our careers,
and students, of course,
will be starting their careers at
the cutting-edge of whatever
field they're in.
But I think also we
(08:06):
know from lots of economic
development research that some of
the most profound innovations come
from bringing together
ideas or best practices
from different fields and
connecting what we
know from a
certain kind of manufacturing with
a certain kind of business process
from some other area.
And, you know, the
(08:28):
world that students experience
is before we all get siloed
and split off. Now
as an economist, you know, there are
days when I spend all day long
around other economists. And
economists have their charms, but
that is not the way to foster
innovation.
It is when you are around people
(08:48):
with ideas from completely
different fields and hear about
something from outside
your narrow discipline or what you
know well — that's where so many
innovations happen. And
that happens in student life
when you really are exposed
to people thinking about all kinds
of different topics. And that's very
hard to replicate
(09:10):
in the professional world.
It is very hard to recreate,
you know, that kind of openness and
exploration and
exposure to lots of different
fields that you get
in student life.
Yeah, I would agree.
Go ahead, Deborah.
I was just going to add that
I'm one of the people who thinks the
liberal arts education is
(09:31):
one of our great strengths.
And that it's during those years
where you have the opportunity to
study whatever it is across the
liberal arts curriculum
and, yes, fuse it and
understand how
literature and how history
and all these things really, yes,
shape our world.
(09:51):
But past is prologue.
And I am concerned that in
many universities, the
specialization occurs too
soon.
And often that's true in
STEM-intensive universities, because
there's so much to learn.
But I will say that as a
student, yes,
you can become a STEM leader
— and you can go back and learn some
(10:12):
of these things, whether it's
Shakespeare or whatever
it is — but if you don't take
some of the STEM courses
as an undergraduate, it's very hard
to go back. So this concept
of STEAM and how we merge
that is very, very important.
And I think some of these
requirements that may seem
old-fashioned are very
relevant to the future.
(10:33):
Yeah, we're very proud of UC Davis'
comprehensive nature.
We have more than 100 undergraduate
degrees and more than 90
professional and graduate degrees
across four colleges and six
professional schools.
So students have an opportunity to
mix and match the STEM fields and
the humanities and social sciences
in really creative ways.
And many of our students are double
majors, and majors and minors,
and all sorts of permutations.
(10:54):
So I think that's really, really
helpful. I want to switch gears and
talk about economic development,
which you mentioned very
briefly in your remarks just now.
Can we say a few words
about the role of the university,
government and organizations like
the council in collaborating
for economic growth, both in rural
(11:14):
and small-town environments like
Davis, but also urban environments
like Sacramento and other cities
where we are active?
Well, I think there are two important
ways that universities contribute to
economic development. I think the
one that people
probably think of first is
around innovation and
the development of
new discoveries, new techniques, new
(11:34):
technologies that then have the
potential to be commercialized.
But I think the other is
that increasingly, as
the economy shifts
from physical goods to services —
and 80% of
our economy is about services,
not physical goods —
innovation happens where people
(11:55):
want to live.
And universities
often create communities
that people want to live in.
And so even in addition
to the activities
of universities that contribute to
innovation, universities
also create the kind
of social infrastructure that
attracts all kinds
(12:17):
of innovators
to live there.
And so it's both
essentially supporting the
productive side of innovation
but also creating
the kinds of amenities
that people are attracted to —
is all the ways that universities
contribute to innovation,
economic development.
Great points.
(12:38):
Yeah.
And I would add to that
that universities in many places
are the prime employer
of a region. And in that sense, they
do have both a responsibility
and an opportunity to ensure, you
know, if there's a new innovation,
whether it's in the use of clean
energy or in telecom,
that they're a leader in that.
(12:59):
And then it also, you
know, is in the community.
I think of Virginia Tech,
you know, in Virginia, how they've
done that. And also Georgia Tech.
And UC San Diego
is a wonderful example, because I'm
sort of a Navy family.
I have two sons that went to the
Naval Academy and services.
But, you know, people
don't remember how Qualcomm was
(13:20):
founded.
It's an amazing story.
You know, Irwin Jacobs coming from
MIT. He's an engineer.
He's playing around out there.
He goes for the weather.
He gets a little contract with the
Navy for a little communication
thing offshore — Linkabit.
And the rest is history.
But, you had to have
UC San Diego and all that
technology and leadership
(13:41):
to take that to scale.
And now you have an economy that's
biotech, telecom, etc., etc..
I do think also that universities,
particularly the large ones but
really across the country, are
accepting their responsibility now
to be a beacon
for hope in their communities.
I won't name them, but there are
(14:02):
some universities in our country
that are very distinguished, and yet
the places where they live have
never had any socioeconomic
advancement.
And I think that's something that's
serious for our country.
Because the universities, the
colleges are the spirit
of a place.
I like that. I like that a lot.
(14:22):
The San Diego example is really
powerful.
I think UC Davis, we consider
ourselves
among the leaders, world
leaders in plant health, animal
health and human health.
And we think that's maybe the
place where the next great
set of discoveries that move the
economy and the nation forward might
be. What do you think about that
(14:42):
assertion?
I believe it's back to the point
of, you know, the innovation
often occurs at the intersection,
but it is the conversion.
And, you know, now we're on the
frontiers of synthetic biology,
immunology.
Just going through the COVID
trauma and pandemic, you know —
they're going to be more zoomorphic
(15:04):
viruses, and understanding
that and its relationship to humans,
that's a huge frontier —
unfortunately, not maybe a pleasant
one.
But you are really taking kind
of the core pieces
of convergence with many, many
applications.
I mean, we can't live without food,
water and health.
So that's really the trifecta.
(15:26):
Yeah. And these are sectors that I
think are a great example of the way
that the university both
produces but also creates
a community that attracts people.
Just in my own experience, I lived
for about 20 years in San Francisco,
often worked
in Sacramento, and Davis
would often be the place
(15:46):
where I would buy food
between the farmers market,
the Meat Lab and so on.
And so it is probably the community
where I would most like to
be a home cook — of any place
I've ever been.
And, so again, you know, it's
of course both the science and
innovation side, but it
spills over to create
(16:07):
a community that
attracts people and makes it a
desirable place to live.
Indeed, you'll be happy to know that
the farmers market and the Meat Lab
are still going strong in Davis.
I think a few of our colleagues went
to the farmers market.
Did they over the weekend?
Yes, they knew about it. ...
Yeah.
Yeah.
I want to talk about the future of
innovation a little bit.
What do you think the society, we
(16:29):
as Americans should be doing —
innovators, students
— to shape the future of
work in health care and climate
change and all these issues that are
facing us —
the near future and further out.
What advice would you give to our
community to think about
in facing these issues?
Well, one, I think this generation —
(16:52):
and maybe again, as a back to the
future story of looking
back 40, 50
years — have a real
sense of responsibility.
They are very concerned about the
issues, you know, climate change
and others, but they
want to have careers of impact.
And so the extent of
which, you know, universities
(17:14):
have that opportunity
for them to have co-ops,
to work on projects
that have both a social and a
technological value, you
know, that's going to attract the
best and brightest, I think, into
these field.
But also, I think a challenge
is time.
I mean, we talk about the time
horizon needed to accelerate,
(17:34):
but, you know, big transformations
don't always happen overnight, and
young people have a little bit of
impatience. I know even I still do.
So how you
understand that continuum
of change and progress.
And the other thing that's really
exciting today is I
do think we're seeing the two
bookends of wisdom.
(17:55):
Young people
and people who are at a different
stage either finish their careers
at the end.
And you need both of those for
experience and wisdom and thought.
And so having, you
know, young students work with some
of the more seasoned people is
also a good thing too.
I agree.
Jed, what do you think about thefuture?
Yeah, I think there are a few
(18:16):
important things to support
this culture of innovation.
One thing that
is essential to understanding
innovation is it involves
some risk.
And for
us to have innovation, we
need a system where people have
the support and security
to take risks, whether
(18:38):
that means building
more housing, so
there is affordable housing around
places where innovation activity is
happening.
All of the ways in which
life can be precarious,
you know, takes away the ability
to take risks.
And so there's a certain
set of basic infrastructure
(19:00):
that we need to support
that kind of innovation.
I think the other is
to remind folks that
you don't need to be a scientist
to contribute to innovation.
You don't need to be an
entrepreneur.
You don't need to want
to found
something, and you don't need
(19:21):
to have an innovative idea
to contribute to innovation.
So much of innovation is
the translation
of ideas into
the marketplace, into
society.
And that work really
needs people who are
gifted visually and
have a way with words and can be
(19:42):
able to translate.
So to be the person who can
translate what scientists are doing
to the lawyers
who are
negotiating deals — that's an
incredibly important role in
innovation.
And it is not
only the sort of lone genius
(20:02):
who is looking to take a risk.
Very important point.
There's a space and a role for
contributions from everyone in
innovation.
I agree completely.
Could I add one comment to that, ...
Please. ...
Chancellor May.
The other thing I think is that
often young people
want to work in the startup world.
As you said, they want to go out
with a group of buddies or whatever
(20:22):
and found some — and it's not
necessarily at all in tech.
I mean, I always say years ago,
you know, Starbucks was a great
innovator. They somehow got people
all over the world to spend — back
then, whatever it was, $5 or $6
for a cup of coffee.
I mean, that was an innovation.
But working
for large-scale, successful
(20:44):
companies is very much part of the
innovation journey as well,
because you learn some of the
disciplines, the practices — and
they're evolving.
I mean, they can't function the way
they did in the 1950s.
And I know that from my career,
you know, having been in the
government for some of my career,
starting at the National Science
Foundation.
(21:04):
All the things I learned there, I
still practice in my life today.
And you don't get that in a startup.
I think there's something to be said
for learning how a complex
organization operates and being a
part of that.
We have a feature on "Face to Face,"
which we call the "Hot Seat,"
so — don't be scared.
It's just — we're going to ask you
some questions that we're looking
(21:25):
for very short answers, one-word,
one-sentence kind of answers.
Ready? ...
Yeah. ... Here we go.
What's the most groundbreaking idea
you've heard in the last year?
I think it's the incredible
accomplishment of
the laser fusion energy
accomplishment at Lawrence
Livermore, and that there is real
(21:46):
talk now about having
a functional laser
inertial fusion plant by
2030.
... That's a good one ... I mean,that's one
of the greatest discoveries,
accomplishments really, in human
history.
Agree. Agree, Jed?
I think some of the
ideas that I've heard this year I'm
most excited about have to do
with our cities,
(22:07):
and what they will look like after
the pandemic as more people are
working remotely, as
we have a change in how
we're thinking about office space
and the need for so much more
housing, and some of the innovation
around what our cities might look
like — how we might use our
downtowns, and how we might get
around.
That's another good one.
Thank you. Yeah.
OK, one of the most important
(22:27):
innovators of our lifetime —
who and why?
I'll say two of them.
And they build on others, of course,
back to the point of — I
would say Jack Kilby and Bob
Noyce, because, you know,
not all the invention, but the
commercialization of the integrated
circuit has created our
digital world. And that's why
(22:49):
next-generation semiconductors and
U.S. leadership in it are essential
for our future.
So that was the foundation
of the — beyond
the information age.
You're in my wheelhouse now, so I
can't disagree with those choices.
Jed, what do you think?
So I think less in terms of
innovators and more in terms of
innovations, just because most
innovations come from efforts
(23:10):
of far more people, many of whom
— names we don't know.
I think for me, some of the most
profound innovations have been those
that have made it possible
for women to participate fully in
the paid workforce (23:21):
labor-saving
devices at home, the pill.
All these innovations that
completely changed
the calculation of
education, how to
balance work,
career, family.
One of the biggest sociological
(23:42):
changes in the U.S.
has been the astounding increase
of women in the formal paid
workforce over recent decades.
So I think those have been some of
the most transformative innovations
that I think about.
I would agree — mechanisms for
building equity. We're not quite
there yet, but we are well along the
path, much further than we were.
OK, a little more fun.
Something new you've learned about
(24:03):
Davis since you've been here.
Well, you've set me
up beautifully.
You ready?
One of your anthropologists who's
working down in Peru
has definitively proven
through archaeological evidence
that in the Paleolithic age,
women were also hunters.
They were not just gatherers.
(24:23):
And so that's — and apparently
it's just revolutionizing
that whole field and our
understanding of the role of women.
And of course, in Neolithic
societies, there was much more
egalitarianism.
It wasn't until we had complex
cities and things, we saw this
demarcation.
So women as hunters, not just
gatherers, although we like to
gather still.
(24:44):
That's a great discovery made at UC
Davis.
So that's a much grander,
new realization about Davis
than I've had since getting here 12
hours ago.
Mine was the Davis Co-op,
which had not
in the past been part of my regular
food stops but
will be in the future.
(25:05):
That's a good one too.
What in your mind is the next big
trend in innovation?
I would say it's the
dematerialization, obviously
decarbonization,
but the work that's underway
to remove our reliance
on natural resources
(25:26):
that are in scarcity.
And the example I would use is not
fossil fuels.
I would use rare earths, critical
materials.
You know, we are completely
dependent — even though we have our
own — as is the EU, on
the processing and China.
I mean, they control 90% of the
processing of graphite.
We need — beyond lithium, we need
synthetic rare earths.
(25:48):
And because they're, you know,
building block of, again, batteries,
everything in this digital world.
And so yes, we're
dematerialization, but we still
live in a physical world.
I really don't want to have my
human interactions all in
cyberspace.
But the materials frontier
is huge.
Materials, very important.
Thank you. Jed?
(26:08):
I think across innovation,
thinking about the impact on
the environment and natural assets
will become part of
innovations across the board.
One of the things that we recently
announced out of the statistical
agencies of the federal government
is a long-term plan
to start incorporating natural
(26:29):
assets, natural capital into
GDP — the most fundamental measure
of overall economic activity.
And once you start realizing
officially the value of nature,
that starts to change
all the decisions you make
about what to invest in, how to
innovate, what counts as economic
growth. Right now in our
(26:49):
national accounts, you know, when
you chop down a tree to build a
house, that new house counts.
The lost tree doesn't.
And
with this long-term innovation
in natural capital accounting, we
will count both the house and the
tree. And I think we will see
that more holistic view
of the costs and benefits of our
(27:09):
actions reflected in
what's valued in terms of
innovation.
That's fascinating.
So you can be a good environmental
steward and still contribute to the
economy.
And you would include the oceans, of
course.
That's right. ... Yeah. ... That's
right.
One last question.
This is a little bit personal.
What life experience has shaped
who you are?
Well, I'm a Bronze Age, Aegean
(27:31):
archaeologist.
And so I studied
and live and love the Minoan
and Mycenaean world,
you know, starting about 1800
Before Christ — that's the old
language, of course.
And it's an incredible period,
because they were innovators.
They completely reshaped the
Mediterranean world.
They were also conceptual
(27:53):
thinkers in artistry — women had
a very powerful role in Minoan
culture — but they
created value out of intangible
assets.
So a lot of their wealth came from
selling their beautiful pottery
— became a luxury good,
and they created a great
civilization.
And for me, how this influenced
(28:14):
me, archaeology is about
understanding a culture and
civilization with very little
information and how you connect
the dots, how something unseen
with a little bit of evidence
enables you to imagine and then
understand what really happened.
So for competitiveness work,
you know, there's no magic bullet.
You have to look at all these
different systems and how you put
(28:34):
them together. So it made me a
synthetic thinker.
Great answer. Yeah.
How about you, Jed, what shaped you?
I think one of the things that
shaped me — and this is relevant
for this whole event about
place-based innovation and
investments — is growing up
in a place that had an extraordinary
sense of itself. I grew up in
Rochester, New York, which —
(28:56):
the
part of the city I grew up in
was enough of a small town
that I grew up thinking that a car
horn was a greeting,
someone passing by to say hi.
And Rochester for
decades had been so dominated by
Kodak that that also contributed
(29:17):
to a place having such a strong
sense of itself economically
and culturally, and
having undergone such change,
being tied to the fate
of one big company
that existed in a very changing
field. And so I think that
led to really a whole
career of my trying to understand
(29:39):
why place is important, why
things happen where they do and
not someplace else,
why people move, why people
stay put.
It's interesting how you remember
those things.
The car horn is a greeting of a
different type in a different part
of New York.
And you know where all those optic
engineers went from Kodak?
(30:00):
Many to other startups within
Rochester. ...
Yeah.
Guess where the best ones went? Thisis a trick question.
... Tell us, tell us.
... They went out to Livermore to
work on ... They're here. Oh, wow.How about that. ...
They took the best optic engineers
in the country to go out and work on
the National Ignition Facility.
... Interesting. I didn't know that.
Yeah, well, you know, those are all
great answers. This has been a great
(30:20):
conversation, very insightful and
enlightening.
So I'm sure our audience is
appreciating it. So I want to thank
you both, Deborah and Jed, for
joining me today on "Face to Face."
It's been a pleasure talking with
you.
Thank you so much.
Thank you, Chancellor. Thank you foryour leadership.
I appreciate that.
Thanks to everyone for listening.
Tune in next time on “Face to Face.”Go, Ags!
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