November 28, 2023 • 38 mins
Pastor Eric and pastor Dan offer a biblical critique of self esteem. They discuss how self-esteem is antithetical to the Scripture and how modern therapist tend to be professional truth suppressors.
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All right, welcome to another episodeof our podcast from Faith Baptist
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Church in Visalia, California.
I am Pastor Eric, and, Ihave Pastor Dan with me today.
We're going to continue our discussionon, oh we need our theme song here.
Here we go.
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Our Alter Ego.
A L T A R.
Yes.
Because we are talkingabout self esteem and oh.
That's a very short
clip there.
Well, actually it's like 30seconds, but I think it must've been
running in the background becausethat just all of a sudden died.
I don't know.
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We got the point across.
Yeah.
So we've been talking about selfesteem and and that song is appropriate
because it talks about how we worshipour ego and, you know, it's, it's our
place of altar, we worship ourself.
And that's the essence of this whole.
This whole concept of self esteem,the world's view of self esteem.
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It's a worship of self.
And I think that's come through clearas we've talked about it so far.
Wouldn't you say, Dan?
Yeah.
Yeah, absolutely.
I think so.
The world clearly promotesthe worship of self and.
You know, you don't have to look veryfar to see that in our, in our culture
and whether it's in, you know moviesor whatever, you know, I think I've,
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you know, we've talked last time aboutDisney and just how Disney promotes such
a love of self, you know, self becomesthe highest, you know, the highest
attainment is self actualization thatDisney is promoting with their kids
and I've got a little cheat sheet here.
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I was thinking of the song let it go.
Oh, yes.
You know, let it go.
Some really interesting lines in there.
When you think about thiswhole self esteem movement.
I mean, you've got, don't let them in.
Don't let them see, be the good girl.
You always have to be concealed.
Don't feel, don't let them know.
Well, now they know, you know,you're fighting against what
your parents have taught you.
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And you're saying that it doesn'tmatter what they taught me.
I'm going to do what you're
going to, you're going to be you.
That's right.
You know, it goes, let it go.
Let it go.
Can't hold it back anymore.
Let it go.
Let it go.
Turn away and slam the door.
I don't care what they're going to say.
Let the storm rage on.
The cold never bothered me anyway.
And then later on it says toit's time to see what I can do to
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test the limits and breakthrough.
No right.
No wrong.
No rules for me.
I'm free.
Let it go.
Let it go.
I'm the one with the wind in the sky.
Let it go.
Let it go.
You'll never see me cry here.
I stand in here.
I'll stay.
Let the storm rage on.
And then it, it ends.
It ends again.
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Let it go.
Let it go.
And I'll rise.
Like the break of dawn, let it go,let it go, that perfect girl is
gone, here I stand in the lightof day, let the storm rage on,
the cold never bothered me anyway.
But just such a, it articulatessuch a great love of self that.
You know, it's my feelings that count,and the way I feel about me is exactly
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how I'm going to live, and I don't carewhat you've taught, and I don't care what
my parents have said, that's irrelevant.
What's important is me.
And, you know, that song, that...
Everybody was singing that song,
all the kids were.
It was huge, and then it was,you know, there were all kinds
of parodies coming off of it too.
Yeah, yeah,
yeah, yeah, clearly, butwhen you think about that.
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Highly influential.
Highly influential, you know,and you think a lot of Christian
parents were just letting theirkids sing that song without even
challenging what this thing is saying.
Right.
I remember talking with one of ouryouth recently, and I said that,
that song was a gateway song.
into homosexuality and coming out.
Well, yes, that's true, but that'snot even really the essence of it.
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The essence of it isabout self actualization.
Yeah.
That's the real essence of it.
Right.
And, and yeah, homosexualitykind of comes out.
You know, it comes out of selfactualization where you're
saying, well, this is the wayI feel, this is the way I am.
I don't care how I was raised.
I don't care how I was born.
This is, this is who I am, you know?
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And so really this, this song iskind of more about self actualization
when you break down, break it down.
But that self actualization takes youin a lot of different directions because
it's all about how you feel as a person.
Yeah.
It is self actualization and self esteem.
They're, they're you know, they're twins.
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Really, they're thesame exaltation of self.
You know, be all that you can be.
Follow your heart, all that stuff.
And
don't let anybody tell you different.
Right.
Just, just let all that go.
And and be who you are.
That's right.
You know, it's just extreme narcissismand it makes sense that, you know, we
look at our culture around us and, andwe see extreme selfishness everywhere.
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Yes.
You know, they, they'vebeen spoon fed this.
Mm hmm.
Yes.
And we've talked about some of thehistory of that, but it's just become
mainstream now in like Disney and others.
And it's not just Disney.
It's all over.
No, no, no.
It's all over the place.
It's the gospel of our,
of our age.
Disney is easy to pick on becausethey're such a perpetuator
of it in all their movies.
You know, that's their, that's theirmain goal is to get kids to reject.
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The insight and wisdom of their parentsfor their own wisdom and to say,
you're wise as a child, you're wise.
You don't need yourparents to instruct you.
You don't need theirwisdom and instruction.
You don't need it.
You don't need the wisdominstruction of the Bible.
It's all about you and how you feel.
Yeah.
And that, that, that's our goal.
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Yeah.
Yeah.
It's a, it's extreme propaganda.
, pushing a humanistic worldview.
Yes.
But it, it, it's a completecontradiction to, you know,
what the Bible says about man.
And I think that would be agood place for us to, yeah.
To go as we discuss this youknow, biblical framework of self.
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What is the biblical view of manand what you find when you look.
What the Bible says is it'scompletely the opposite of, you
know, that that song Let It Go.
And it is of, of the self-esteemmovement, which is, , the
humanists humanistic at its core.
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Yes.
It is all about self whenthe Bible is all about God.
Yes, it is.
It's all about him.
And that's the startingplace of the scripture.
I mean, what Genesis one,one in the beginning.
God created the heavens and the earth,you know, when we, when, when you go
out when you share the gospel, we'vegot those, those tracks that we, we
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hand out and they just walk throughthe gospel, but it begins with that
statement that God created you.
Yes.
And you owe him your allegiancebecause he created you.
He's God.
That's right.
And he's, he's the one who createdall things and controls all things.
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He's the one who providentiallydetermines all the circumstances of life.
It is God who, who is in control.
I like what Nicholas Allen saidin his book on self esteem.
He said, God will let you sail,but you cannot control the weather.
You have the freedom to make choices.
God determines the outcome.
Boy, that is a great statement.
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Yeah.
Yeah.
We're, we're
taught today that, you know,you can do what you want.
You can control the weather, youknow, I think I mentioned that
song you know, I believe I can fly.
I believe it.
I mean, that's, that's kind of theidea that you can, you, you can
make yourself what you, what youaren't through self actualization.
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You can control all the outcomes of yourlife, and that's just, I mean, that just
sets people up for a complete Misery,because it never works that way, ever.
It never
does.
In reality.
No, no.
In fact, the Bible, the Bible tellsus that that's the miserable person.
It is.
It's a miserable person.
Because, you know, cursed is theman who trusts in, in, in flesh.
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Yeah.
You're cursed if you trustin flesh, your own flesh.
You're cursed.
But blessed is the man Who walks notin the counsel of the ungodly, or
stands in the way of sinners, or sitsin the seat of the scornful, but his
delight is in the law of the Lord.
That's the blessed man, the man who trustsin God, not the man who trusts in man.
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Man is not his own.
His way is not his own.
Jeremiah 10, 23, I know, O Yahweh, thata man's way is not in himself, nor is it
in a man who walks to direct his steps.
So he doesn't control his own destiny.
Yeah, that was, that'ssuch a great reminder.
Yeah.
The plans of the heart belong toman, Proverbs 16, one, but the
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answer of the tongue is from Yahweh.
So again, you know you as a manyou might make plans but the answer
of the tongue is from Yahweh.
So Yahweh is the one who reallydecides how a man's plans work.
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Yeah.
And then the, the verse of all versesthat describe this is Genesis 50 verse 20,
where Joseph is speaking to his brothersand he says to them, as for you, you
meant evil against me, but God meant itfor good in order to do what has happened
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on this day to keep many people alive.
And You know, all of their efforts endedup working out to God's perfect plan
for Joseph and Joseph understood that.
Yeah.
Which is just an amazing testimonywhen you, you read everything
that Joseph went through.
That, that he, that he hadthat perspective, but it's
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the right perspective.
It is.
Yes.
And even though they intendedto do him harm and evil, yet God
worked all of that for, for good.
Yeah.
For his good and for what Godwanted to accomplish through that
situation, which God always does.
Yeah.
And that's the testimony of scripture.
You just don't find in thescripture that, mindset where you
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just let it go, be who you are.
That's not the goal and youdon't see that in scripture.
No, never.
You know, this isn't to deny, youknow, idiosyncrasies with each of
us and personalities and all that.
Of course, God made each of us unique.
I'm not denying that, but that it is.
God, who is the one whois directing all things.
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Yes.
And it is his purposes.
So it's not about us tryingto find ourselves, as it were.
No.
But rather trying to discoverwhat God's will is for himself.
What his purpose is.
That's the testimony of scripture.
It is to be faithfulto to what he's doing.
Mm hmm.
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And to obey him.
So, and that's, you know, Romans12 too, do not be conformed to this
world, but be transformed by therenewing of your mind so that you
may approve what the will of God is.
Not
my will.
Right.
It's the will of God.
Yes.
It's the word of God that becomesthe source of the will of God.
Yes.
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And, and this is what we are to pursue.
It is to pursue his word Matthew4, 4, man shall not live on bread
alone, but on every word thatproceeds out of the mouth of God.
This is what we're here to do.
To find the wisdom that is notof this world, but it is to
eat from the sources of wisdom.
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That is found only in God.
Yeah,
and to desire that.
And really to desire that.
I mean, you know, we talked aboutit earlier, but I was talking
about Proverbs, where it saysthat wisdom comes from the Lord.
He's the source of knowledge andinstruction, and that He gives.
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You know, you think of James.
If anyone lacks wisdom,let him ask of myself.
Right.
Right.
No, let him ask of God.
What do you
feel?
Exactly.
Go with your God.
Yes.
Yeah.
But let him ask of God who givesgenerously to, to all men who ask.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Because it's all, that's theonly source of all wisdom
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because all truth is God's truth.
It's so, it's sourced from him alone.
Yes.
And that's, that's kind of ironic that Isay that because that phrase is used to
ramrod psychology , into Christianity.
All truth is God's truth which isa true statement, but it doesn't
mean that your truth is God's truth.
That's right.
And that's the problem.
That is the problem.
Yeah.
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And then, you know, we'recreated in, in the image of God.
This is important.
We understand how we are made up.
It is about him.
We are not our own and weare created in his image.
We are created to reflect God.
We reflect his character.
We reflect him in ourrelationship with each other.
We are created to worship him.
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Not ourselves.
We've been given intellectualabilities so that, and everybody
has to some degree or another, sothat they grow in, in understanding.
We are created with a willwe are created with emotions,
and the question we need to be pursuing,you know, seeking is, well how, how is it
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that God created us and for what purpose?
It's for his purpose.
And if we are seeking to understandor, to find function outside
of how we're created, , that'sin rebellion against God.
And Nicholas Ellen said in his book,what a person thinks of himself or
herself is not as important as what.
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But he or she is commanded tothink of himself or herself.
And that of course is the, the opposite ofthis whole discussion in the self esteem.
Yeah, it really is.
Because I mean, you just think aboutwe're reflect, we're, we're designed
to bring honor and glory to God.
And that means that everything that wedo, whether it's in our thinking, in our
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actions, our emotions All is to reflectGod and glorify him and If you think about
that just takes the attention off of me.
I can I'm not the center of theworld God is the center and he
needs to be the center of my world.
Not not me.
Yeah, because the moment that I startMaking life about me and how I feel and
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the way, you know, I want to do things.
Really, I'm elevating myselfabove God and I'm saying, I am
more important than God here.
Yeah.
And I want, you know, the thingsthat I want to do are more important
than the things God wants me to do.
Yeah.
Yeah, so it's not so muchwhat you think about yourself.
It's what...
You're commanded to think about yourself.
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It's, it's what you'recommanded to think that is true.
The whole of this is all about God.
Again, with, you know, he, he's the.
The purpose of it all, andour call to submit to him.
So we're created in his image.
We're created with a mind.
We've talked about thatwhen we did the the Mind vs.
the Brain podcast, which , I'd recommendthat all of our listeners go back.
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If they haven't listened tothat one, listen to that.
Podcast, I think it's foundational inthis discussion, you know, what is the
difference between the mind and the brain?
It's super important tohave that distinction, but
the mind is the inner man.
It's the immaterial part of manit's, and there's all kinds of
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scripture verses that say that.
The mind is the source of our desiresand where, where our fallenness
begins out of the heart proceeds allof all, all of the issues of life.
And so that's where, you know,the, the flesh and the mind is
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constantly wanting to exalt itself.
And that's this, you know, if you,if you're trusting those inclinations
those natural inclinations, well,it's you know, Ephesians 2, 3 says
we are by nature children of wrath.
Yes.
And so those are part of thefallen nature, man, they're
going to lead you astray.
Yes.
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And it's a spirit that's working inthe sons of disobedience that, that
immediately makes you disobedientif you're going to live by those
desires and those, those lusts.
So that desire to let it go is driven bya rebellion against the God who made you.
I mean, that's, that's what theBible describes who we are by nature.
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And and when we're trusting ourheart, we're following those desires.
And we're saying that thatthe source of our problems is
our lack of our self esteem.
What we're saying is that I need tofollow those inclinations, which are
the inclinations that are accordingto the, to the the spirit that is now
working in the sense of disobedience.
I mean, that's going to leadyou to all kinds of problems.
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It is.
Disaster in your life.
Yeah, you go
back to what we talked about thislast, in our last conversation here,
Proverbs 3, 5, and 6, you know, trustin the Lord with all your heart,
lean not on your own understanding.
Right, right.
You know, it's, it's, youhave two options in life.
You can listen to the Lord oryou can listen to yourself.
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And whenever we listen toourselves, you can guarantee.
That, you know, if we're promotingwhat, you know, my flesh wants, or my
flesh desires, then you're just askingfor trouble because you're leaning on
the arm of man, not on the arm of God.
And that's what you're trusting in.
Romans 8, 5, 8 through 8 says for thosewho are According to the flesh, set
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their minds on the things of the flesh.
For those who are according to thespirit, the things of the spirit.
For the mindset on the flesh is death.
Yes.
But the mindset on thespirit is life and peace.
So there's your, your you know, thechoice that you need to make in your life.
Because the mindset on theflesh is hostile toward God.
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For it does, for it does notsubject itself to the law of God.
Even able to do so.
There's all kinds of stuff.
The Bible is very clear aboutwhat is actually wrong and what
is actually driving us by nature.
And this all comes downto the fall of man.
You know, Adam and Evesinned and they fell.
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As a result, humanity fell into sin.
And there's Romans 5.
12 Just as one man through one man sinnedinto the world and death through sin and
so death spread to all men because all.
This is the condition of man.
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Adam's sin caused mankind to come underthe control of those sinful impulses.
Under the, the, the spirit that worksin the sons of disobedience, who
at the very head is Satan himself.
Yes.
And, and the entire world is being usedby Satan in order to manipulate you to
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live according to those fallen impulses.
That's the war,
which is why you see in Romans1 that they approve, the world
approves of those who also do that.
Yeah.
You know, they, they, they livethat way and then they approve
of those who also follow in lineand, you know, toe the line.
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Yeah.
1 Peter 4 says that you know, thatwhen you don't act like they do, they
think it's strange and they malign
you.
Yes.
When you don't enter into the floodof dissipation, I think it says there.
Dissipation.
Yes.
Yeah.
The, the constant source stream of sinand you know, that worldly kind of living.
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This is, this is what our impulse,the, the impulses of a man.
Is under the control of his fallennature and unless, unless Christ comes,
this is why you need, you need thegospel, you know, God, God created
man, man owes him their allegiance.
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Man.
rejected God Adam fell with him.
All men fell.
And and so now we're all underthe condemnation and that fall has
infected us like a, like a poisonand every fiber of our being.
And and so the answeris the gospel, right?
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This is the only hope.
It's not self esteem.
It's not exalting yourself.
It's not self actualization.
It is the gospel that Jesus Christcame, lived the perfect life.
He died the death that thatwe deserve, and he atoned for
all who, who trust in him.
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We need to repent.
of our tendency toward self
esteem.
Yeah.
I mean, you're right.
You know, everything, the Bible makesit clear that we need to be saved and
we need to be saved from ourselves.
Yeah.
And from our own fleshliness anddesire to live for self and exalt self.
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And that's what you have in Romans1 and Romans 6 says that In Christ,
we are no longer enslaved to theold man, but we are enslaved.
We are now enslaved to Christ.
We are enslaved to Christand we belong to him.
And so he saves us from our, our sin.
He saves us from our sinfulselves and he makes us new in him.
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Yeah.
New creation.
That's right.
New people who no longer live forthemselves, but for Him, who for their
sake died and was raised to life.
Yeah.
And it's, it's interesting because whenyou actually break it down you discover
that those who live for themselves, youknow, are living in a, in a living death.
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Those who live for Christ arethose who have been raised to life.
You know, if you set your mind on theflesh, it is to die, on the spirit, it is
to live, you know, this, this dichotomybetween either you live for yourself or
you live for Christ, you live for fleshlythings, or you live for spiritual things.
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And this is very interesting because whenit comes to what the world calls self
esteem, so and so has a low self esteem.
What they're saying is that,you know, you feel bad.
Yes.
You feel bad.
Well, the Bible actuallydoes talk about that.
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So there is a category what theworld calls self esteem, that the
Bible actually calls your conscience.
And this is just so fascinatingbecause this conscience, because
of who God is, because it's allabout Him, because He created us.
This conscience is at workin every single person.
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And this whole self esteemmovement is proof of that.
I think.
Yeah,
I agree.
Yeah, totally.
Because, you know, if, if you'refeeling bad about life, maybe
there's a good reason for that.
Right.
That's right.
Maybe it's because of the sinful conditionin which, which you are as a human being
and you don't understand why you feel bad.
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Now you got Romans 2 15.
It says in that to demonstrate thework of the law written in their
hearts, their conscience bearingwitness and their thoughts alternately
accusing or else defending them.
That's.
Self esteem.
That's the, summary of, of what theworld calls self esteem right there.
Your low self esteem is becauseyour conscience is condemning you,
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and we can't have that, right?
And you're trying to counteract thatby propping up your self esteem,
which only perpetuates the problem.
It's a cycle that doesn't go anywhereto actually alleviate that guilt.
Now there are people who can have aseared conscience, you know, that they
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for, for a while that they can shutdown that voice and they've learned
how to control that to some degree.
Genesis 4 when Cain is complaining.
To the Lord because of his hisoffering that wasn't received.
Genesis four, verse six Yahwehsaid to Cain, why are you angry?
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And why is your countenance fallen?
Why are you depressed?
In verse 7 it says, if you do well,will not your countenance be lifted up?
If you do not do well, sin is lyingat the door, and its desire is for
you, but you must rule over it.
Isn't that interesting?
That is.
There's
that whole thing right there.
I mean, you can, you can takecare of it the right way.
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Which would be to turn to God andrepent in essence here, and then do
things the way God wants you or not.
If you're gonna continue todwell on this and, and live here,
then it's going to overtake you.
And that's what it did.
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Yeah, it did.
It did.
And it resulted in death.
And this explains the, so many people
because they're not dealing with the.
issue that comes from the innerman, the issue that's in the heart.
The reason why you're feeling bad tobegin with is because your conscience is
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condemning you because you are sinning.
And there's sin in your life.
Sin at the door of your heart.
And the conscience is a God givenawareness of right and wrong.
It is, every singleperson is born with this.
And since it is God given, then the rightand wrong is based on God's standard.
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This is so true and it's such an effectiveway to evangelize too, because when you
get out there and you talk to peoplewho want to deny that God exists, ask
them, Hey, would it, would you mind ifI were to punch you in the face right
now and steal your wallet or whatever.
And of course they'regoing to be like, no way.
No, no, you can't do that.
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I've actually done this before in what?
Punch someone in the face.
No, no, I haven't done that.
Ah, maybe we should tryit and see what happens.
I can guess what would happen,actually no, I've not done that.
That's funny.
No, but I've asked someone thisquestion or I've asked a few times, I've
asked this question and the answer isalways the same that no, that's wrong.
Well, how do you know that's wrong?
Why is that wrong?
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Yeah.
What makes that wrong?
What makes that wrong?
There, there's something that is operatinginside of you that you naturally know.
If a person function, functions in a waythat's not right, he or she can expect
or experience the unpleasantness in thesoul that comes from the conscience.
Which...
is called conscious sorrow.
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If a person functions in a way thatis right he or she can expect or
experience expect to experience apleasantness in the soul that comes from
the conscience called conscience joy.
So this is what is going on.
You are either experiencingconscience sorrow or you are
experiencing conscience joy.
And I would guess that a lot oftimes, anxiety and depression is
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rooted in conscious, conscious sorrow.
Yeah, absolutely.
You would have to agree with that.
I think, I think biblically youknow, I'm not going to say every
time because I think there can be.
You know, a biologicalcomponent to depression.
We've talked about that before, butI would say most of the time, the
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majority of the time it's, it's probablyrooted in conscience, sorrow, and
David expressed that in what Psalm 32,32 and 32, where he's talking about,
Hey, this is the way I felt before Iconfessed my sin and repented of it.
And it, it's all, it looks like,you know, David's talking about
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depression there and the way he's,he's, you know, dealing with life.
And so, yeah, conscience,
sorrow.
Yeah, he said, my bones wasted awaythrough my groaning all day long.
Yeah, yeah, and of course thereare biological things that
can cause someone to feel bad.
But, I, I, I think, what was it 90%?
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Do you remember thedoctor that came to the...
I think he said 90 percent are notbiological, so only 10 percent of the
time in the cases that he's studied or Idon't know what study he's cited, where
there are actual biological reasons for...
For depression.
For the depression.
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Yes.
So that means 90 percent ofthe time it's because you're
experiencing conscious sorrow.
Yes.
You're not doing what you should be doing.
You know, if you're a believer, you'renot living the way you should be living.
You're not doing what God wants you to do.
You're not, you know, you're notserving or you're not living.
You're not acting.
You're not in the way that Godwants you to live, think and act.
(30:15):
And you know it.
Yeah.
And if, and even if, even if in themoment you can't quite identify what
it is, your conscience knows it.
Yes.
There's something that it knows.
Something that you've, that you're doingor have done and it is, and so what
we're saying is that this conscious,it is this conscious joy and conscious
(30:37):
sorrow that the world recognizes andit has attempted to redefine into
terms of high and low self esteem.
Mm hmm.
That's what they're acknowledgingand this is so interesting because
they're acknowledging somethingthat the Bible acknowledges.
That's built into man.
That's built into man by God.
(30:57):
Right, and they're trying tosolve the problem with this
whole self esteem movement.
It isn't the joy or disturbancesof the conscious is not something
that can be manipulated.
You can't fix it because it'sa by product of your choices.
You can't take a drug andit's going to make it go away.
(31:19):
No.
Your choices are causingyou to experience conscious.
joy or conscious sorrow.
And again, Genesis 4, 7, if you dowell, Will not your countenance be
lifted up if you do not do well?
Sin is lying at the door.
And and this is, this is what Romans 215, they demonstrate, the unbelievers
(31:45):
demonstrate the work of the law writtenin their hearts, their conscious bearing
witness in their thoughts, alternatelyaccusing or else defending them.
Yeah, that's right.
The verse above that, verse 14, youknow, Gentiles do not have the law
naturally do the things of the law.
Yeah.
So, so they know what's right.
They know what's wrong
instinctively.
You can't even explain that.
(32:07):
Yes.
In, in human terms.
And again, you can have aseared conscience, you know.
Yeah.
And we're seeing thatin our culture today.
Yeah.
We see a lot of people that have justseared their conscience and said, I
don't care what my conscience said,I'm going to live by my feelings.
Yeah.
Because if I...
You know, if I listen to my conscience,the alternative is that I'm going to,
you know, feel a little anxiety here.
(32:28):
Right.
But if I live by my feelings,then, you know, life is good.
Right.
So, so then when there's this conscioussorrow because of this natural
understanding of the law and thatthere is a, a law giver that you're
sinning against, which by the way isfascinating because of what it means.
(32:49):
Is that the work of the gospel presspreparation is, is done in everybody.
When you go out and you sharethe gospel, it's already.
It's already at work in their lifeand, and this is, this explains why
people will sometimes get angry whenyou tell them that there is a God
(33:11):
and that you will, they will haveto come to account for their sins.
I've, I've seen this.
Yes.
They, they will get angry.
Or that they're morally accountable orthat they're, they're morally bankrupt.
Yeah.
Because God says they're morally bankrupt.
Then they get upset and angry.
Yeah.
And they don't want, but then,then they'll go to therapy.
And, and therapy is all the self talk.
(33:34):
With the goal of shutting up that voicethat tells you that you've sinned.
Yes.
And that's what it is.
You go to therapy and you keepgoing and keep going and keep going
in order to shut up that voice.
You're searing your conscience.
That's right.
And you're undermining themechanism that God has put in man.
(33:56):
In order to drive them to the gospel.
That's the objective.
Right.
Of, of, of therapy.
You're, you're making themtwice the son of hell.
Yes.
Which is fascinating because how manyChristians are sending their kids to the
therapist?
How many Christians themselvesare going to the therapist?
And themselves going to therapy?
Yes.
Where they're not
really getting help.
(34:16):
They're not getting help to, youknow, live their lives in a way that's
more honoring and glorifying to God.
Instead, they're being told, yeah,you kind of, you know, indirectly,
you need to You know, you needto think better about yourself.
Yeah.
Which is the oppositeof what they need to do.
That's right.
They need to recognize that theyare sinful and are fallen, and they
(34:37):
need to recognize that they, theywill give an account to a holy God.
And and then they need to recognizetheir need for, for Christ, a savior.
And so all of this to say that theself esteem movement is completely
incompatible with the Bible in every way.
It is.
Absolutely.
The only compatibility is thatthe self esteem recognizes
(35:01):
what the Bible recognizes.
They've just missed, it's, youknow, they've, they've re termed it.
Re termed it and misdiagnosed it.
Right.
And misdiagnosed it.
They said, well, the problem isn't sin.
Right.
You just have a low view of yourself.
So yeah, the secular self esteemimplies that each man, each person is
the central focus of his own existence.
(35:23):
That's completelyantithetical to the scripture.
It is.
Believing in yourself does notgive you the power to do what
you were not designed to do.
And it fools you into thinking you can dowhatever you want without consequences.
That only perpetuates the problem.
And when the main point of life isto improve yourself and your esteem,
God is no longer at the center.
(35:43):
And what you end up with is self worship.
And this is the essence ofthe self esteem movement.
The worship of self and therejection of biblical worldview.
Yes.
And I become the center of life, not God.
Again, that's all of Romans 1, isn't it?
(36:05):
Yeah.
It seems like that's all, you know,Romans 1, no, it's 17 through, or
18 through the end of the chapter.
17 through the end of the chapter, that'swhat Romans 1 is about, is self worship.
Yeah.
You deny the gospel?
And to worship self bringsyou under the wrath of God.
It is the wrath of God, Romans 1 18,like you were saying, the wrath of God
is revealed from heaven against allungodliness and unrighteousness of men
(36:28):
who suppress the truth in unrighteousness.
That's right.
Suppress the truth about God.
The truth about your sin.
Isn't that what therapy does?
Yes, that's exactly what therapy does.
They're professional truth suppressors.
That's
right, right.
And instead of, you know, dyingto self, you're loving self.
(36:50):
Just find this so fascinatingand how deceptive it is.
How we can fall into thesecategories that sound so good.
And and, and, and it, you know,you, and then you, you, you look at
the scripture and it's like, wow.
The Bible, the Bible knowsexactly what it's talking about.
You know, that's
(37:10):
just the problem though.
It sounds so good becausepeople have made it sound good.
Yeah.
You know, we, we don't want to talk aboutsin because that's a negative thing.
But if we talk about, you know,self esteem, well, that's,
you know, we can fix that.
We can't fix sin, but wecan fix your self esteem.
We can make you feel better in theory.
Right.
You know.
(37:31):
Yeah.
Interesting.
All right.
Well, this is, this has been good.
So thanks, Dan.
Thank you.
Off we go.
Off we go.
Join us for our next podcast.
That's right.
Or you could join us for church on Sunday,9 30 AM Sunday school, 10 30 AM is church
(37:54):
service, 6 o'clock PM Sunday night,and we're in Visalia, California, so.
If you're near Visalia, come join us.
Otherwise, just keeplistening to our podcast.
Peace out.
Peace out.
All right, welcome to another episodeof our podcast from Faith Baptist
(00:21):
Church in Visalia, California.
I am Pastor Eric, and, Ihave Pastor Dan with me today.
We're going to continue our discussionon, oh we need our theme song here.
Here we go.
(00:42):
Our Alter Ego.
A L T A R.
Yes.
Because we are talkingabout self esteem and oh.
That's a very short
clip there.
Well, actually it's like 30seconds, but I think it must've been
running in the background becausethat just all of a sudden died.
I don't know.
(01:02):
We got the point across.
Yeah.
So we've been talking about selfesteem and and that song is appropriate
because it talks about how we worshipour ego and, you know, it's, it's our
place of altar, we worship ourself.
And that's the essence of this whole.
This whole concept of self esteem,the world's view of self esteem.
(01:23):
It's a worship of self.
And I think that's come through clearas we've talked about it so far.
Wouldn't you say, Dan?
Yeah.
Yeah, absolutely.
I think so.
The world clearly promotesthe worship of self and.
You know, you don't have to look veryfar to see that in our, in our culture
and whether it's in, you know moviesor whatever, you know, I think I've,
(01:46):
you know, we've talked last time aboutDisney and just how Disney promotes such
a love of self, you know, self becomesthe highest, you know, the highest
attainment is self actualization thatDisney is promoting with their kids
and I've got a little cheat sheet here.
(02:07):
I was thinking of the song let it go.
Oh, yes.
You know, let it go.
Some really interesting lines in there.
When you think about thiswhole self esteem movement.
I mean, you've got, don't let them in.
Don't let them see, be the good girl.
You always have to be concealed.
Don't feel, don't let them know.
Well, now they know, you know,you're fighting against what
your parents have taught you.
(02:29):
And you're saying that it doesn'tmatter what they taught me.
I'm going to do what you're
going to, you're going to be you.
That's right.
You know, it goes, let it go.
Let it go.
Can't hold it back anymore.
Let it go.
Let it go.
Turn away and slam the door.
I don't care what they're going to say.
Let the storm rage on.
The cold never bothered me anyway.
And then later on it says toit's time to see what I can do to
(02:52):
test the limits and breakthrough.
No right.
No wrong.
No rules for me.
I'm free.
Let it go.
Let it go.
I'm the one with the wind in the sky.
Let it go.
Let it go.
You'll never see me cry here.
I stand in here.
I'll stay.
Let the storm rage on.
And then it, it ends.
It ends again.
(03:12):
Let it go.
Let it go.
And I'll rise.
Like the break of dawn, let it go,let it go, that perfect girl is
gone, here I stand in the lightof day, let the storm rage on,
the cold never bothered me anyway.
But just such a, it articulatessuch a great love of self that.
You know, it's my feelings that count,and the way I feel about me is exactly
(03:34):
how I'm going to live, and I don't carewhat you've taught, and I don't care what
my parents have said, that's irrelevant.
What's important is me.
And, you know, that song, that...
Everybody was singing that song,
all the kids were.
It was huge, and then it was,you know, there were all kinds
of parodies coming off of it too.
Yeah, yeah,
yeah, yeah, clearly, butwhen you think about that.
(03:57):
Highly influential.
Highly influential, you know,and you think a lot of Christian
parents were just letting theirkids sing that song without even
challenging what this thing is saying.
Right.
I remember talking with one of ouryouth recently, and I said that,
that song was a gateway song.
into homosexuality and coming out.
Well, yes, that's true, but that'snot even really the essence of it.
(04:20):
The essence of it isabout self actualization.
Yeah.
That's the real essence of it.
Right.
And, and yeah, homosexualitykind of comes out.
You know, it comes out of selfactualization where you're
saying, well, this is the wayI feel, this is the way I am.
I don't care how I was raised.
I don't care how I was born.
This is, this is who I am, you know?
(04:41):
And so really this, this song iskind of more about self actualization
when you break down, break it down.
But that self actualization takes youin a lot of different directions because
it's all about how you feel as a person.
Yeah.
It is self actualization and self esteem.
They're, they're you know, they're twins.
(05:02):
Really, they're thesame exaltation of self.
You know, be all that you can be.
Follow your heart, all that stuff.
And
don't let anybody tell you different.
Right.
Just, just let all that go.
And and be who you are.
That's right.
You know, it's just extreme narcissismand it makes sense that, you know, we
look at our culture around us and, andwe see extreme selfishness everywhere.
(05:25):
Yes.
You know, they, they'vebeen spoon fed this.
Mm hmm.
Yes.
And we've talked about some of thehistory of that, but it's just become
mainstream now in like Disney and others.
And it's not just Disney.
It's all over.
No, no, no.
It's all over the place.
It's the gospel of our,
of our age.
Disney is easy to pick on becausethey're such a perpetuator
of it in all their movies.
You know, that's their, that's theirmain goal is to get kids to reject.
(05:51):
The insight and wisdom of their parentsfor their own wisdom and to say,
you're wise as a child, you're wise.
You don't need yourparents to instruct you.
You don't need theirwisdom and instruction.
You don't need it.
You don't need the wisdominstruction of the Bible.
It's all about you and how you feel.
Yeah.
And that, that, that's our goal.
(06:13):
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's a, it's extreme propaganda.
, pushing a humanistic worldview.
Yes.
But it, it, it's a completecontradiction to, you know,
what the Bible says about man.
And I think that would be agood place for us to, yeah.
To go as we discuss this youknow, biblical framework of self.
(06:35):
What is the biblical view of manand what you find when you look.
What the Bible says is it'scompletely the opposite of, you
know, that that song Let It Go.
And it is of, of the self-esteemmovement, which is, , the
humanists humanistic at its core.
(06:55):
Yes.
It is all about self whenthe Bible is all about God.
Yes, it is.
It's all about him.
And that's the startingplace of the scripture.
I mean, what Genesis one,one in the beginning.
God created the heavens and the earth,you know, when we, when, when you go
out when you share the gospel, we'vegot those, those tracks that we, we
(07:16):
hand out and they just walk throughthe gospel, but it begins with that
statement that God created you.
Yes.
And you owe him your allegiancebecause he created you.
He's God.
That's right.
And he's, he's the one who createdall things and controls all things.
(07:37):
He's the one who providentiallydetermines all the circumstances of life.
It is God who, who is in control.
I like what Nicholas Allen saidin his book on self esteem.
He said, God will let you sail,but you cannot control the weather.
You have the freedom to make choices.
God determines the outcome.
Boy, that is a great statement.
(07:58):
Yeah.
Yeah.
We're, we're
taught today that, you know,you can do what you want.
You can control the weather, youknow, I think I mentioned that
song you know, I believe I can fly.
I believe it.
I mean, that's, that's kind of theidea that you can, you, you can
make yourself what you, what youaren't through self actualization.
(08:21):
You can control all the outcomes of yourlife, and that's just, I mean, that just
sets people up for a complete Misery,because it never works that way, ever.
It never
does.
In reality.
No, no.
In fact, the Bible, the Bible tellsus that that's the miserable person.
It is.
It's a miserable person.
Because, you know, cursed is theman who trusts in, in, in flesh.
(08:44):
Yeah.
You're cursed if you trustin flesh, your own flesh.
You're cursed.
But blessed is the man Who walks notin the counsel of the ungodly, or
stands in the way of sinners, or sitsin the seat of the scornful, but his
delight is in the law of the Lord.
That's the blessed man, the man who trustsin God, not the man who trusts in man.
(09:04):
Man is not his own.
His way is not his own.
Jeremiah 10, 23, I know, O Yahweh, thata man's way is not in himself, nor is it
in a man who walks to direct his steps.
So he doesn't control his own destiny.
Yeah, that was, that'ssuch a great reminder.
Yeah.
The plans of the heart belong toman, Proverbs 16, one, but the
(09:25):
answer of the tongue is from Yahweh.
So again, you know you as a manyou might make plans but the answer
of the tongue is from Yahweh.
So Yahweh is the one who reallydecides how a man's plans work.
(09:45):
Yeah.
And then the, the verse of all versesthat describe this is Genesis 50 verse 20,
where Joseph is speaking to his brothersand he says to them, as for you, you
meant evil against me, but God meant itfor good in order to do what has happened
(10:06):
on this day to keep many people alive.
And You know, all of their efforts endedup working out to God's perfect plan
for Joseph and Joseph understood that.
Yeah.
Which is just an amazing testimonywhen you, you read everything
that Joseph went through.
That, that he, that he hadthat perspective, but it's
(10:27):
the right perspective.
It is.
Yes.
And even though they intendedto do him harm and evil, yet God
worked all of that for, for good.
Yeah.
For his good and for what Godwanted to accomplish through that
situation, which God always does.
Yeah.
And that's the testimony of scripture.
You just don't find in thescripture that, mindset where you
(10:47):
just let it go, be who you are.
That's not the goal and youdon't see that in scripture.
No, never.
You know, this isn't to deny, youknow, idiosyncrasies with each of
us and personalities and all that.
Of course, God made each of us unique.
I'm not denying that, but that it is.
God, who is the one whois directing all things.
(11:09):
Yes.
And it is his purposes.
So it's not about us tryingto find ourselves, as it were.
No.
But rather trying to discoverwhat God's will is for himself.
What his purpose is.
That's the testimony of scripture.
It is to be faithfulto to what he's doing.
Mm hmm.
(11:29):
And to obey him.
So, and that's, you know, Romans12 too, do not be conformed to this
world, but be transformed by therenewing of your mind so that you
may approve what the will of God is.
Not
my will.
Right.
It's the will of God.
Yes.
It's the word of God that becomesthe source of the will of God.
Yes.
(11:49):
And, and this is what we are to pursue.
It is to pursue his word Matthew4, 4, man shall not live on bread
alone, but on every word thatproceeds out of the mouth of God.
This is what we're here to do.
To find the wisdom that is notof this world, but it is to
eat from the sources of wisdom.
(12:13):
That is found only in God.
Yeah,
and to desire that.
And really to desire that.
I mean, you know, we talked aboutit earlier, but I was talking
about Proverbs, where it saysthat wisdom comes from the Lord.
He's the source of knowledge andinstruction, and that He gives.
(12:33):
You know, you think of James.
If anyone lacks wisdom,let him ask of myself.
Right.
Right.
No, let him ask of God.
What do you
feel?
Exactly.
Go with your God.
Yes.
Yeah.
But let him ask of God who givesgenerously to, to all men who ask.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Because it's all, that's theonly source of all wisdom
(12:54):
because all truth is God's truth.
It's so, it's sourced from him alone.
Yes.
And that's, that's kind of ironic that Isay that because that phrase is used to
ramrod psychology , into Christianity.
All truth is God's truth which isa true statement, but it doesn't
mean that your truth is God's truth.
That's right.
And that's the problem.
That is the problem.
Yeah.
(13:15):
And then, you know, we'recreated in, in the image of God.
This is important.
We understand how we are made up.
It is about him.
We are not our own and weare created in his image.
We are created to reflect God.
We reflect his character.
We reflect him in ourrelationship with each other.
We are created to worship him.
(13:36):
Not ourselves.
We've been given intellectualabilities so that, and everybody
has to some degree or another, sothat they grow in, in understanding.
We are created with a willwe are created with emotions,
and the question we need to be pursuing,you know, seeking is, well how, how is it
(14:00):
that God created us and for what purpose?
It's for his purpose.
And if we are seeking to understandor, to find function outside
of how we're created, , that'sin rebellion against God.
And Nicholas Ellen said in his book,what a person thinks of himself or
herself is not as important as what.
(14:21):
But he or she is commanded tothink of himself or herself.
And that of course is the, the opposite ofthis whole discussion in the self esteem.
Yeah, it really is.
Because I mean, you just think aboutwe're reflect, we're, we're designed
to bring honor and glory to God.
And that means that everything that wedo, whether it's in our thinking, in our
(14:47):
actions, our emotions All is to reflectGod and glorify him and If you think about
that just takes the attention off of me.
I can I'm not the center of theworld God is the center and he
needs to be the center of my world.
Not not me.
Yeah, because the moment that I startMaking life about me and how I feel and
(15:11):
the way, you know, I want to do things.
Really, I'm elevating myselfabove God and I'm saying, I am
more important than God here.
Yeah.
And I want, you know, the thingsthat I want to do are more important
than the things God wants me to do.
Yeah.
Yeah, so it's not so muchwhat you think about yourself.
It's what...
You're commanded to think about yourself.
(15:32):
It's, it's what you'recommanded to think that is true.
The whole of this is all about God.
Again, with, you know, he, he's the.
The purpose of it all, andour call to submit to him.
So we're created in his image.
We're created with a mind.
We've talked about thatwhen we did the the Mind vs.
the Brain podcast, which , I'd recommendthat all of our listeners go back.
(15:54):
If they haven't listened tothat one, listen to that.
Podcast, I think it's foundational inthis discussion, you know, what is the
difference between the mind and the brain?
It's super important tohave that distinction, but
the mind is the inner man.
It's the immaterial part of manit's, and there's all kinds of
(16:14):
scripture verses that say that.
The mind is the source of our desiresand where, where our fallenness
begins out of the heart proceeds allof all, all of the issues of life.
And so that's where, you know,the, the flesh and the mind is
(16:35):
constantly wanting to exalt itself.
And that's this, you know, if you,if you're trusting those inclinations
those natural inclinations, well,it's you know, Ephesians 2, 3 says
we are by nature children of wrath.
Yes.
And so those are part of thefallen nature, man, they're
going to lead you astray.
Yes.
(16:55):
And it's a spirit that's working inthe sons of disobedience that, that
immediately makes you disobedientif you're going to live by those
desires and those, those lusts.
So that desire to let it go is driven bya rebellion against the God who made you.
I mean, that's, that's what theBible describes who we are by nature.
(17:19):
And and when we're trusting ourheart, we're following those desires.
And we're saying that thatthe source of our problems is
our lack of our self esteem.
What we're saying is that I need tofollow those inclinations, which are
the inclinations that are accordingto the, to the the spirit that is now
working in the sense of disobedience.
I mean, that's going to leadyou to all kinds of problems.
(17:40):
It is.
Disaster in your life.
Yeah, you go
back to what we talked about thislast, in our last conversation here,
Proverbs 3, 5, and 6, you know, trustin the Lord with all your heart,
lean not on your own understanding.
Right, right.
You know, it's, it's, youhave two options in life.
You can listen to the Lord oryou can listen to yourself.
(18:02):
And whenever we listen toourselves, you can guarantee.
That, you know, if we're promotingwhat, you know, my flesh wants, or my
flesh desires, then you're just askingfor trouble because you're leaning on
the arm of man, not on the arm of God.
And that's what you're trusting in.
Romans 8, 5, 8 through 8 says for thosewho are According to the flesh, set
(18:24):
their minds on the things of the flesh.
For those who are according to thespirit, the things of the spirit.
For the mindset on the flesh is death.
Yes.
But the mindset on thespirit is life and peace.
So there's your, your you know, thechoice that you need to make in your life.
Because the mindset on theflesh is hostile toward God.
(18:45):
For it does, for it does notsubject itself to the law of God.
Even able to do so.
There's all kinds of stuff.
The Bible is very clear aboutwhat is actually wrong and what
is actually driving us by nature.
And this all comes downto the fall of man.
You know, Adam and Evesinned and they fell.
(19:06):
As a result, humanity fell into sin.
And there's Romans 5.
12 Just as one man through one man sinnedinto the world and death through sin and
so death spread to all men because all.
This is the condition of man.
(19:27):
Adam's sin caused mankind to come underthe control of those sinful impulses.
Under the, the, the spirit that worksin the sons of disobedience, who
at the very head is Satan himself.
Yes.
And, and the entire world is being usedby Satan in order to manipulate you to
(19:53):
live according to those fallen impulses.
That's the war,
which is why you see in Romans1 that they approve, the world
approves of those who also do that.
Yeah.
You know, they, they, they livethat way and then they approve
of those who also follow in lineand, you know, toe the line.
(20:16):
Yeah.
1 Peter 4 says that you know, thatwhen you don't act like they do, they
think it's strange and they malign
you.
Yes.
When you don't enter into the floodof dissipation, I think it says there.
Dissipation.
Yes.
Yeah.
The, the constant source stream of sinand you know, that worldly kind of living.
(20:38):
This is, this is what our impulse,the, the impulses of a man.
Is under the control of his fallennature and unless, unless Christ comes,
this is why you need, you need thegospel, you know, God, God created
man, man owes him their allegiance.
(21:00):
Man.
rejected God Adam fell with him.
All men fell.
And and so now we're all underthe condemnation and that fall has
infected us like a, like a poisonand every fiber of our being.
And and so the answeris the gospel, right?
(21:23):
This is the only hope.
It's not self esteem.
It's not exalting yourself.
It's not self actualization.
It is the gospel that Jesus Christcame, lived the perfect life.
He died the death that thatwe deserve, and he atoned for
all who, who trust in him.
(21:44):
We need to repent.
of our tendency toward self
esteem.
Yeah.
I mean, you're right.
You know, everything, the Bible makesit clear that we need to be saved and
we need to be saved from ourselves.
Yeah.
And from our own fleshliness anddesire to live for self and exalt self.
(22:08):
And that's what you have in Romans1 and Romans 6 says that In Christ,
we are no longer enslaved to theold man, but we are enslaved.
We are now enslaved to Christ.
We are enslaved to Christand we belong to him.
And so he saves us from our, our sin.
He saves us from our sinfulselves and he makes us new in him.
(22:33):
Yeah.
New creation.
That's right.
New people who no longer live forthemselves, but for Him, who for their
sake died and was raised to life.
Yeah.
And it's, it's interesting because whenyou actually break it down you discover
that those who live for themselves, youknow, are living in a, in a living death.
(22:55):
Those who live for Christ arethose who have been raised to life.
You know, if you set your mind on theflesh, it is to die, on the spirit, it is
to live, you know, this, this dichotomybetween either you live for yourself or
you live for Christ, you live for fleshlythings, or you live for spiritual things.
(23:17):
And this is very interesting because whenit comes to what the world calls self
esteem, so and so has a low self esteem.
What they're saying is that,you know, you feel bad.
Yes.
You feel bad.
Well, the Bible actuallydoes talk about that.
(23:37):
So there is a category what theworld calls self esteem, that the
Bible actually calls your conscience.
And this is just so fascinatingbecause this conscience, because
of who God is, because it's allabout Him, because He created us.
This conscience is at workin every single person.
(24:02):
And this whole self esteemmovement is proof of that.
I think.
Yeah,
I agree.
Yeah, totally.
Because, you know, if, if you'refeeling bad about life, maybe
there's a good reason for that.
Right.
That's right.
Maybe it's because of the sinful conditionin which, which you are as a human being
and you don't understand why you feel bad.
(24:24):
Now you got Romans 2 15.
It says in that to demonstrate thework of the law written in their
hearts, their conscience bearingwitness and their thoughts alternately
accusing or else defending them.
That's.
Self esteem.
That's the, summary of, of what theworld calls self esteem right there.
Your low self esteem is becauseyour conscience is condemning you,
(24:47):
and we can't have that, right?
And you're trying to counteract thatby propping up your self esteem,
which only perpetuates the problem.
It's a cycle that doesn't go anywhereto actually alleviate that guilt.
Now there are people who can have aseared conscience, you know, that they
(25:08):
for, for a while that they can shutdown that voice and they've learned
how to control that to some degree.
Genesis 4 when Cain is complaining.
To the Lord because of his hisoffering that wasn't received.
Genesis four, verse six Yahwehsaid to Cain, why are you angry?
(25:30):
And why is your countenance fallen?
Why are you depressed?
In verse 7 it says, if you do well,will not your countenance be lifted up?
If you do not do well, sin is lyingat the door, and its desire is for
you, but you must rule over it.
Isn't that interesting?
That is.
There's
that whole thing right there.
I mean, you can, you can takecare of it the right way.
(25:52):
Which would be to turn to God andrepent in essence here, and then do
things the way God wants you or not.
If you're gonna continue todwell on this and, and live here,
then it's going to overtake you.
And that's what it did.
(26:12):
Yeah, it did.
It did.
And it resulted in death.
And this explains the, so many people
because they're not dealing with the.
issue that comes from the innerman, the issue that's in the heart.
The reason why you're feeling bad tobegin with is because your conscience is
(26:36):
condemning you because you are sinning.
And there's sin in your life.
Sin at the door of your heart.
And the conscience is a God givenawareness of right and wrong.
It is, every singleperson is born with this.
And since it is God given, then the rightand wrong is based on God's standard.
(26:59):
This is so true and it's such an effectiveway to evangelize too, because when you
get out there and you talk to peoplewho want to deny that God exists, ask
them, Hey, would it, would you mind ifI were to punch you in the face right
now and steal your wallet or whatever.
And of course they'regoing to be like, no way.
No, no, you can't do that.
(27:20):
I've actually done this before in what?
Punch someone in the face.
No, no, I haven't done that.
Ah, maybe we should tryit and see what happens.
I can guess what would happen,actually no, I've not done that.
That's funny.
No, but I've asked someone thisquestion or I've asked a few times, I've
asked this question and the answer isalways the same that no, that's wrong.
Well, how do you know that's wrong?
Why is that wrong?
(27:41):
Yeah.
What makes that wrong?
What makes that wrong?
There, there's something that is operatinginside of you that you naturally know.
If a person function, functions in a waythat's not right, he or she can expect
or experience the unpleasantness in thesoul that comes from the conscience.
Which...
is called conscious sorrow.
(28:02):
If a person functions in a way thatis right he or she can expect or
experience expect to experience apleasantness in the soul that comes from
the conscience called conscience joy.
So this is what is going on.
You are either experiencingconscience sorrow or you are
experiencing conscience joy.
And I would guess that a lot oftimes, anxiety and depression is
(28:26):
rooted in conscious, conscious sorrow.
Yeah, absolutely.
You would have to agree with that.
I think, I think biblically youknow, I'm not going to say every
time because I think there can be.
You know, a biologicalcomponent to depression.
We've talked about that before, butI would say most of the time, the
(28:46):
majority of the time it's, it's probablyrooted in conscience, sorrow, and
David expressed that in what Psalm 32,32 and 32, where he's talking about,
Hey, this is the way I felt before Iconfessed my sin and repented of it.
And it, it's all, it looks like,you know, David's talking about
(29:08):
depression there and the way he's,he's, you know, dealing with life.
And so, yeah, conscience,
sorrow.
Yeah, he said, my bones wasted awaythrough my groaning all day long.
Yeah, yeah, and of course thereare biological things that
can cause someone to feel bad.
But, I, I, I think, what was it 90%?
(29:32):
Do you remember thedoctor that came to the...
I think he said 90 percent are notbiological, so only 10 percent of the
time in the cases that he's studied or Idon't know what study he's cited, where
there are actual biological reasons for...
For depression.
For the depression.
(29:52):
Yes.
So that means 90 percent ofthe time it's because you're
experiencing conscious sorrow.
Yes.
You're not doing what you should be doing.
You know, if you're a believer, you'renot living the way you should be living.
You're not doing what God wants you to do.
You're not, you know, you're notserving or you're not living.
You're not acting.
You're not in the way that Godwants you to live, think and act.
(30:15):
And you know it.
Yeah.
And if, and even if, even if in themoment you can't quite identify what
it is, your conscience knows it.
Yes.
There's something that it knows.
Something that you've, that you're doingor have done and it is, and so what
we're saying is that this conscious,it is this conscious joy and conscious
(30:37):
sorrow that the world recognizes andit has attempted to redefine into
terms of high and low self esteem.
Mm hmm.
That's what they're acknowledgingand this is so interesting because
they're acknowledging somethingthat the Bible acknowledges.
That's built into man.
That's built into man by God.
(30:57):
Right, and they're trying tosolve the problem with this
whole self esteem movement.
It isn't the joy or disturbancesof the conscious is not something
that can be manipulated.
You can't fix it because it'sa by product of your choices.
You can't take a drug andit's going to make it go away.
(31:19):
No.
Your choices are causingyou to experience conscious.
joy or conscious sorrow.
And again, Genesis 4, 7, if you dowell, Will not your countenance be
lifted up if you do not do well?
Sin is lying at the door.
And and this is, this is what Romans 215, they demonstrate, the unbelievers
(31:45):
demonstrate the work of the law writtenin their hearts, their conscious bearing
witness in their thoughts, alternatelyaccusing or else defending them.
Yeah, that's right.
The verse above that, verse 14, youknow, Gentiles do not have the law
naturally do the things of the law.
Yeah.
So, so they know what's right.
They know what's wrong
instinctively.
You can't even explain that.
(32:07):
Yes.
In, in human terms.
And again, you can have aseared conscience, you know.
Yeah.
And we're seeing thatin our culture today.
Yeah.
We see a lot of people that have justseared their conscience and said, I
don't care what my conscience said,I'm going to live by my feelings.
Yeah.
Because if I...
You know, if I listen to my conscience,the alternative is that I'm going to,
you know, feel a little anxiety here.
(32:28):
Right.
But if I live by my feelings,then, you know, life is good.
Right.
So, so then when there's this conscioussorrow because of this natural
understanding of the law and thatthere is a, a law giver that you're
sinning against, which by the way isfascinating because of what it means.
(32:49):
Is that the work of the gospel presspreparation is, is done in everybody.
When you go out and you sharethe gospel, it's already.
It's already at work in their lifeand, and this is, this explains why
people will sometimes get angry whenyou tell them that there is a God
(33:11):
and that you will, they will haveto come to account for their sins.
I've, I've seen this.
Yes.
They, they will get angry.
Or that they're morally accountable orthat they're, they're morally bankrupt.
Yeah.
Because God says they're morally bankrupt.
Then they get upset and angry.
Yeah.
And they don't want, but then,then they'll go to therapy.
And, and therapy is all the self talk.
(33:34):
With the goal of shutting up that voicethat tells you that you've sinned.
Yes.
And that's what it is.
You go to therapy and you keepgoing and keep going and keep going
in order to shut up that voice.
You're searing your conscience.
That's right.
And you're undermining themechanism that God has put in man.
(33:56):
In order to drive them to the gospel.
That's the objective.
Right.
Of, of, of therapy.
You're, you're making themtwice the son of hell.
Yes.
Which is fascinating because how manyChristians are sending their kids to the
therapist?
How many Christians themselvesare going to the therapist?
And themselves going to therapy?
Yes.
Where they're not
really getting help.
(34:16):
They're not getting help to, youknow, live their lives in a way that's
more honoring and glorifying to God.
Instead, they're being told, yeah,you kind of, you know, indirectly,
you need to You know, you needto think better about yourself.
Yeah.
Which is the oppositeof what they need to do.
That's right.
They need to recognize that theyare sinful and are fallen, and they
(34:37):
need to recognize that they, theywill give an account to a holy God.
And and then they need to recognizetheir need for, for Christ, a savior.
And so all of this to say that theself esteem movement is completely
incompatible with the Bible in every way.
It is.
Absolutely.
The only compatibility is thatthe self esteem recognizes
(35:01):
what the Bible recognizes.
They've just missed, it's, youknow, they've, they've re termed it.
Re termed it and misdiagnosed it.
Right.
And misdiagnosed it.
They said, well, the problem isn't sin.
Right.
You just have a low view of yourself.
So yeah, the secular self esteemimplies that each man, each person is
the central focus of his own existence.
(35:23):
That's completelyantithetical to the scripture.
It is.
Believing in yourself does notgive you the power to do what
you were not designed to do.
And it fools you into thinking you can dowhatever you want without consequences.
That only perpetuates the problem.
And when the main point of life isto improve yourself and your esteem,
God is no longer at the center.
(35:43):
And what you end up with is self worship.
And this is the essence ofthe self esteem movement.
The worship of self and therejection of biblical worldview.
Yes.
And I become the center of life, not God.
Again, that's all of Romans 1, isn't it?
(36:05):
Yeah.
It seems like that's all, you know,Romans 1, no, it's 17 through, or
18 through the end of the chapter.
17 through the end of the chapter, that'swhat Romans 1 is about, is self worship.
Yeah.
You deny the gospel?
And to worship self bringsyou under the wrath of God.
It is the wrath of God, Romans 1 18,like you were saying, the wrath of God
is revealed from heaven against allungodliness and unrighteousness of men
(36:28):
who suppress the truth in unrighteousness.
That's right.
Suppress the truth about God.
The truth about your sin.
Isn't that what therapy does?
Yes, that's exactly what therapy does.
They're professional truth suppressors.
That's
right, right.
And instead of, you know, dyingto self, you're loving self.
(36:50):
Just find this so fascinatingand how deceptive it is.
How we can fall into thesecategories that sound so good.
And and, and, and it, you know,you, and then you, you, you look at
the scripture and it's like, wow.
The Bible, the Bible knowsexactly what it's talking about.
You know, that's
(37:10):
just the problem though.
It sounds so good becausepeople have made it sound good.
Yeah.
You know, we, we don't want to talk aboutsin because that's a negative thing.
But if we talk about, you know,self esteem, well, that's,
you know, we can fix that.
We can't fix sin, but wecan fix your self esteem.
We can make you feel better in theory.
Right.
You know.
(37:31):
Yeah.
Interesting.
All right.
Well, this is, this has been good.
So thanks, Dan.
Thank you.
Off we go.
Off we go.
Join us for our next podcast.
That's right.
Or you could join us for church on Sunday,9 30 AM Sunday school, 10 30 AM is church
(37:54):
service, 6 o'clock PM Sunday night,and we're in Visalia, California, so.
If you're near Visalia, come join us.
Otherwise, just keeplistening to our podcast.
Peace out.
Peace out.
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