November 13, 2024 • 28 mins
In this episode of On the Road with Paul Ward, Paul welcomes Dr. Laurie Marker, founder of the Cheetah Conservation Fund (CCF). Dr. Marker shares the inspiring story behind the creation of CCF, which began as an effort to prevent local farmers in Namibia, Africa, from killing cheetahs to protect their livestock. She describes how CCF became a model farm, implementing innovative solutions like the Livestock Guarding Dog program, which has successfully reduced livestock loss while protecting cheetahs and teaching sustainable farming practices. Dr. Marker also discusses Africa’s evolving conservation mindset over her 30+ years there, and CCF's collaborations with the Namibian government to ensure cheetahs remain in the wild.
Throughout the conversation, Dr. Marker provides insights into cheetah behavior, the global population status, and the challenges of the illegal pet trade. She shares her journey from the U.S. to Africa and how CCF has grown into a research and educational center, offering ecotourism and outreach programs that engage locals and visitors alike. To learn more about CCF, support their mission, or visit their ecotourism lodge, listeners can explore www.cheetah.org, where they can also find ways to contribute to the conservation of these remarkable animals.
Watch the Full Episode Here
What you’ll learn in this episode: 0:05 Welcome to On the Road and introduction of our guest: Dr. Laurie Marker with the Cheetah Conservation Fund
0:44 We learn what The Cheetah Conservation Fund is
1:29 Dr. Laurie Marker’s involvement began because of local farmers killing cheetahs
2:28 The Cheetah Conservation Fund is located in Namibia, Africa and learn about it being a model farm
3:22 Dr. Marker describes the Livestock Guarding Dog that are used to keep the cheetahs and other wildlife away from the farm animals
4:45 The decrease in livestock loss because of the dog program being used and replicated by others as well as reteaching people to live with livestock
6:15 The change in Africa’s conservation mindset over the 30+ year period of Dr. Marker living there
7:04 How The Cheetah Conservation Fund works with the Namibia government to keep the animals free and in the wild other than for research and we learn more about that
8:58 More about how cheetahs live: Males, females, cubs, etc
10:25 Dr. Marker gives insight on the global population of cheetahs and the illegal pet trade that occurs
13:15 The Cheetah Conservation Funds have multiple locations
14:57 Dr. Laurie Marker’s story and what made her move from the United States to Africa over 30 years ago
19:02 Finding answers to help the cheetahs, the communities that Dr. Laurie Marker and The Cheetah Conservation Fund works with to help their livelihood
20:39 Teaching the locals how to be sustainable, how and why the cheetahs may be killing their livestock
23:07 The Cheetah Conservation Fund has also turned into a learning center in Namibia and what the students learn
24:57 There is an Ecotourism lodge that is open to the public every day and learn more on social media and their website: www.cheetah.org
25:57 The Cheetah Conservation Fund is a 501c3 and how to get involved
26:14 How much does it cost to take care of a cheetah for a year?
27:31 The Cheetah Conservation Fund’s motto and a powerful quote by Dr. Laurie Marker
28:09 A special thank you to our sponsor: Opus Escrow
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Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:05):
Hi friends, it's Paul Ward, andwelcome to On the Road. Well,
we all have our favoriteanimal, horse, dog, cat.
Maybe something wild like a bear. Well,today's guest is truly next level.
She moved from the United Statesto Africa to protect wild cheetahs.
Dr. Laurie Marker with theCheetah Conservation Fund.
(00:26):
Welcome to On the Road.
Thank you.
And we wanna thank oursponsor, Opus Escrow. So,
I certainly wanna hear your story.
It's fascinating how you decidedto move from the United States
to Namibia.
But first tell us what is theCheetah Conservation Fund?
Well,
the Cheetah Conservation Fundis the leading organization in the world to try to
(00:49):
keep cheetahs living free in the wild.And I'm based in Namibia, Africa.
Little bit of ways away.
Right.
From the United States rightnow. And so, our programs
really revolve around working directlywith the communities on whose land the
cheetah's living. The cheetahis a fast, big cat. Right.
(01:11):
It's the fastest land animal.
It is one of the mostunique of all the big cats.
And they are found in Africa. And ourjob is to try to save them in the wild.
And I read that you were concerned,
or you got involved because localfarmers were just killing cheetahs.
Right.
They were killing themto protect their goats,
(01:32):
which seems crazy to killthese big, beautiful animals.
But you took it uponyourself to make a change.
Right. And I started my work inAfrica in the middle seventies.
And that's when I actually found thatfarmers were killing cheetahs at such a
high rate. And it was livestock farmers.And it was not only their goats,
their sheep, but also theircalves and their cattle.
(01:55):
Much of Africa has kind of animalson the hoof that they travel.
Many of 'em are pastoral ormany of them are very poor.
And with this, any loss to theirlivestock becomes a problem. And so,
I think globally, we as people killpredators because we're afraid of them.
Right.
(02:15):
And what we try to do is to teach peoplehow to live in harmony with not only
the predators, but the rest of nature.
And so, you created this, the fund,the Cheetah Conservation Fund,
and you're located on a wildlife preserve?
Yes. We're based on about 150,000 acres.
Oh, that's big.
And it's very big. Andwe border onto a national park.
(02:37):
Okay.
And there we do manage all of ourwildlife. We're also a model farm.
And a part of what's called a conservancy,
and a conservancy is where youlive with wildlife on your land
instead of just in a national park,and you manage your livestock.
And so you can all live together.Now, a lot of that though,
(02:57):
for cheetahs is the fact that cheetahsaren't found in protected areas.
80% of the remaining cheetahs areall found outside of protected areas.
That's why working with people becomessuch an important part of the work that
we do.
Interesting.
And I read that you're alsousing dogs to keep the cheetahs
and the other wildlifeaway from the farm animals.
(03:19):
Right.
How does that, how does that work?
Well, there are big breeds of dogs,which are called livestock guarding dogs.
And we use a dog that camefrom Turkey originally.
It is actually, they're a Turkishdog. It's called the Kangal,
or the Anatolian Shepherd.It's a very large dog.
And we breed and place thesedogs when they're puppies.
(03:44):
Usually at about three monthsof age with the livestock.
And they grow up with the livestockthat they wanna protect. So,
anything that they are growingup with, they will protect.
And they do this by markingterritory, by barking loudly,
by saying anything that is aroundthat's not supposed to be there,
(04:04):
they bark loudly, and they say,
"Go away!" And most predatorsdon't wanna just come and get
eaten or, you know, mauled by a dog.And I think a lot of people think that
predators are livestock, you know,
catching animals just becausethat's what they'll do. But really,
if you protect your livestock,
(04:25):
then indeed you can livein harmony with nature.
And I Would imagineyou've seen a big drop in
livestock kills usingdogs and then training or
working with local farmers tomaybe acquire dogs and kind
of replicate the program.
Very much so. So,
(04:46):
we see between an 80 to a hundredpercent decrease of livestock loss
for the people who have the dog. And westarted the program about 30 years ago.
We've been able to place over 800 dogs,and they are just absolutely incredible.
We've got about a two-year waiting list.Everybody wants a dog. So, with that,
we work harder at, you know,
(05:08):
bringing new bloodlines in breeding them,
selecting which farmers can get them,because you have to take care of the dog.
And also, we say you have to trainthe farmer, and really not the dog.
Because the dog's very instinctual.But so, with our training programs,
we have a program that wecall Future Farmers of Africa.
(05:28):
I grew up as a future farmer of America.
I had dairy goats and wasa judge around the country,
and also grew up on the backof my horse. So, with that,
I felt that that was a reallyappropriate way to help get the
livestock farmers in Africa, a littlebit more engaged in maybe Africa.
Africa's all about wildlife.Beautiful wildlife. Amazing wildlife.
(05:52):
And yet how to live with the wildlifeis something that we as humans
around the world have forgot thatwe can do. Right. But it is doable.
And that's a lot of whatwe do, is we teach how to.
So, do you feel in your,
I guess 30 plus years living inAfrica that the continent is much more
conservation mindedthan when you got there?
(06:15):
I believe so. When I workthroughout the cheetahs range;
the cheetahs found in about20 countries in about 33
populations.
And out of that 20 of these populationsare under a hundred individuals.
So,
I've actually brought people fromthroughout most of Africa's cheetah
(06:36):
range countries and train them atour training center in Namibia.
And there it has been very worthwhileby working together with other people
who understand peoplefrom the governments.
And we've been trying hard toactually scale up the programs that
we've developed in Namibia,
(06:56):
in other African rangecountries for cheetahs.
Now, are you breeding cheetahs? Is thata silly question? Or is it all wild?
All wild. We do not breed cheetahs,
and in Namibia they don't want captiveanimals or captive animals being
bred. And that also can lead tothe illegal wildlife pet trade.
(07:17):
As something to think about.
But we work together with the governmentto try to keep the animals free and in
the wild. I mean, that'swhat Africa's all about.
It's not having them all inzoos like we do here in America.
And so, from the Namibian perspective,
we work together with the government andthe people to try to have the animals
living in the wild. But with that,
(07:39):
we do end up with orphansand with these orphans,
many of them cannot go backout into the wild. And so,
then we have to take care of them.
And then they're oftentimesused in our ongoing research.
We are a research organization,
and what we are trying to do isunderstand more about the basic biology,
the basic, you know, genetics ofthe cheetahs, how they live. So,
(08:02):
we have a lot of very extensiveresearch projects as well,
which are very interesting.
But we kind of wrote the bookon how the cheetah lives.
We are the first organization that'sdealt with cheetahs in the wild.
And over the years that we'vebeen doing this now many of our,
we publish our papers and publishour research and then continually
(08:25):
try to find out more about how touse that research into an applied
conservation. Like the use ofthe livestock guardian dogs,
farmers are having problems, we want tohelp them. But then on the other side,
we wanted to understand moreabout the ecology of the cheetah.
How they're living out there in thewild. And they've got huge home ranges,
larger ranges than any otheranimal actually in the world.
(08:48):
Even though we think of the elephant asbeing so big. Covering a lot of area.
Cheetahs' home ranges areclose to 800 square miles.
Wow. What In one individual?
One individual.
Wow. That's huge.
It is huge. And they livein a very low density. So,
cheetahs are interesting. Their behavior:
male cheetahs bond togetherfrom the time they're born;
(09:08):
they stick together their entirelives. And that's called a coalition.
Only males?
Only males. And so, as the
female has a litter of cubs,and she can have up to six,
but four or five is usually average.
The cubs will stay with their momsuntil they're about 18 to 22 months.
During that period of time,she's covering huge areas,
(09:32):
teaching them what thewhole range look like.
And then when the males are at about18 (months) a year and a half or so
they and the female cubs dispersetogether from the mother.
And they stick together for maybesix months until dominant males come
in, chase the young males away,and then we'll breed the females.
(09:54):
The females stay within theirmother's home range. So,
it's a matriarchal society, basically. So,
we've learned all thisand it's really exciting,
interesting to understandhow they're living.
And then we can share that informationback with the farming community to get
people to know how they're moving.
Do you feel that thebreed is healthy? I mean,
just because of conservation effortsand the population is growing
(10:18):
versus what was happening, you know,
30 years ago when farmerswere killing them off?
Or is it kind of a tough question?
It's tough question because Ihave to say extinction takes time.
And for the number ofanimals that had been killed
before we set up our foundation andthe work that we've done we have,
are trying to stabilizethese populations. And again,
(10:41):
we have been able to stabilizethe population in Namibia.
The global population for cheetahsis only about 7,000 individuals.
That's it?
That's it.
Oh, it's tiny.
It's very tiny.
I did not realize that.
And so then when you end up withvery small pockets you end up
with more in breeding. Andthat leads to other problems.
The cheetahs also a speciesthat lacks genetic diversity.
(11:05):
And that goes back to many of ourstudies that started back in the early
eighties when we discoveredthe lack of genetic diversity.
Our partnerships havebeen with the Smithsonian,
with the National Cancer Institute.
And our research then reallycreated a lot of what conservation
biology is really about today,
(11:25):
because it wasn't just lookingat the numbers of animals,
it was understanding theoverall health of them.
And we started understanding that.
And then as I moved toNamibia over 30 years ago,
we started collecting this informationthat allowed us to piece together a lot
of information in workingwith the governments,
but also sharing that information backwith our partners in zoos here in the
(11:48):
United States or in Europe,
where there are only about 2000cheetahs living in captivity.
And they still don't breedall that well in captivity.
But we've been able to help our captivezoo partners in understanding more about
how to keep the cheetahs living healthy.
With that it's really important tokeep them free and living in the wild.
(12:11):
And not only are we dealing with thehuman wildlife conflict aspects in
the Southern African area,
but that is also a problem forthe cheetah throughout its range.
And another area that we work veryclosely in is in the Horn of Africa.
And that is an area inEthiopia and the Somaliland.
The Somaliland is a breakaway of Somali.
(12:34):
And Somaliland is anarea that has the illegal
wildlife pet trade. It wasgoing through Somaliland
very short distance over to Yemen and up
into the Middle East,
which is where many of the peoplethere wanted to have cheetahs as pets.
(12:54):
As a status symbol.
Gotcha.
And so, over the last decade,
we've been very involved in trying tostop the illegal wildlife pet trade.
And that has been pretty devastating.
I did read that the Cheetah ConservationFund, though, you've expanded beyond,
I mean, you've got multiple locations.
(13:15):
Locations, yes. Well, the next biglocation is that of Somaliland.
Okay.
And because we've now got 97 cheetahsjust in the last couple years
that have come in to us that havebeen confiscated from the trade.
Oh,
they were captured alive and thentaken by wildlife officials and then
(13:35):
brought to you.
Right. Right. Right.
They were on their way to theMiddle East or wherever to be pets?
Pets. But as they, if onecat makes it as a pet,
as a cub, they're caught as cubs.
Four to five usually die for everyone that might make it there.
They will only have a lifespan for ayear or two because the people don't know
(13:56):
how to take care of themproperly. And so. It's been very,
very devastating for that Horn ofAfrica population, which is very,
very small. And so.
We've then taken a lot of our programsthat we've developed in Namibia,
like our farmer training program andour school education programs and
have now adapted everythingfor the Horn of Africa.
(14:18):
We also work out of East Africa,
which was also where many of ourprograms have been adapted as well.
And so, we're trying to stop the trade.
Much of it is driven byhuman wildlife conflict.
And to try again to keep the cheetahsliving free and in the wild by working
with the communities. So, communitysupport is really important.
(14:43):
So backtracking, what made you decide,
I think it was 1990 to move fromthe US and what were you doing?
And then all of a sudden say, "Hey,I'm moving to Africa. I need to,
I wanna do this, I need to do this.".
Right, right. Well, I did grow updown here in Southern California,
(15:03):
and as I said, I grew up in the backof my horse and I was a pony clubber.
I'm 4H and a Future Farmer of America.
I was in agricultureand had moved from here
southern California to Northern Californiaand actually became a wine maker and
a grape grower.
(15:24):
Interesting. So, you'reNapa region? Sonoma?
Napa, yep. And then from theremoved to Oregon as the new frontier.
And I was the third bondedwinery in all of Oregon and
had started the Oregonwine industry. However,
a wildlife park had just openedabout five miles from my vineyard.
(15:44):
And it grew,
opened about the same time as the SanDiego Wild Animal Park had started.
Our park was called Wildlife Safari,modeled very similarly open free range.
And we were one of the few places inthe world that had cheetahs. And so,
growing up with mybackground with animals,
I got a job there to support my business.
(16:05):
Although my job there took mylife basically. Right.
And I ran the veterinary clinic andthe cheetahs came under my care.
And I was fascinated.
Nobody in the world knew about cheetahsand I wanted to know everything there
was to know about cheetahs. And Iwrote to people around the world,
and they basically wrote back and said,
"When you find out somethingabout cheetahs, let us know.".
(16:26):
Were you a viticulture personat the same time you were a vet?
Yes.
Oh, interesting.
And I'm not a vet, I'ma vet. I was a vet tech.
Gotcha.
And grew up taking care of and workingwith the veterinarians my whole
childhood and thought I was goingto be a vet but ended up going into
agriculture instead.
So, you fell in love with the cheetah'cause you were at the wildlife safari.
(16:48):
The wildlife safari.
Safari in Oregon. And then youheard about the plight in Africa.
Well, no, I found out aboutthe plight in Africa, actually.
I had a research project thatI was asked to do in Namibia.
And that was in the middle 1970s.
And it was to find out if a captive borncheetah could go back out into the wild
and learn how to hunt. Now I have to say,
(17:10):
my life has come full circle because todaywe're actually rehabilitating animals
back into the wild wherethey have gone extinct.
But I did the first researchproject with a cheetah that I
had raised in Oregon andwent over to Namibia and
taught her how to hunt.But at the same time,
(17:30):
that's when I found out that farmers werekilling eight to 900 cheetahs a year.
Wow.
And in a decade when I wasin Namibia finding this out
and coming back toAmerica and saying, "Hey,
did you know that the cheetahs caughtall these problems in the wild?" That
nobody in the world seemed to care about.
Nearly 10,000 cheetahs were killed bythe farming community during that period
(17:54):
of time.
Wow.
And I kept going back to Namibia; keptgoing back to other areas of Africa.
The same time I developed an entire
national and then globalcaptive program to help maintain
the cheetahs in captivity.
And our genetic research cameinto all of that as well.
But we needed to know more aboutwhat the wild cheetah looked like,
(18:16):
and we needed to stop thetrade and the killing.
And so from that point, Imoved to the National Zoo and..
In Washington?
In Washington, and I was runninga research program there,
which combined the aspects ofgenetics, reproductive physiology,
vet medicine to look at wild populations.
(18:36):
And so I was one of the first of ourteam to go over and put it all together
to try to help save theendangered cheetah. And so,
in 1990 when Namibia got its independence,
I basically sold my belongings,got enough money for a Land Rover,
moved to Namibia, and that wasnow almost 35 years ago. So that,
(18:58):
that was my life. Who knewwhat was gonna happen.
Right.
But I learned a lot about cheetahs.
I've learned a lot aboutwhat their problems are.
But what we've done is we'velearned about the solutions.
And the solutions are really aboutworking closely together with communities,
which,
I had mentioned early on that most of thepeople that I'm working with are quite
(19:21):
marginalized. Uneducatedbecause of lack of education.
Very, very poor. And the areas thatthe cheetah's living in is very,
very arid landscapes.
We're living in some of thedriest desert landscapes.
And then with that,
trying to help these communitiesget out of poverty basically.
(19:43):
And when a cheetah kills their livestock,
that puts them even more into poverty.
Right.
And so many of our programsreally try to look at helping the
communities' livelihoods.And that might be,
well, if you take better care ofyour livestock and know how to,
through good livestock management,maybe the right vaccine,
(20:08):
the right dewormers,trimming of the hooves,
things like this your livestockis gonna live and not die.
And if it's not sick, it's notgonna be at the end of your herd.
And then a predator's not gonna catch it.
Right. Right.
So,
all of those things are things that manyof the farmers did never think about.
And then we've also taught,
(20:28):
them how to do things likemake goat milk cheese.
And that's part of the farm atthe Conservation Wildlife Center?
Yes. Yes.
And we have farmers comeinto us to learn these
kinds of skills.
And with that then they can put a littledairy together out in their communities
(20:50):
and make their own cheese. You cando this even without refrigeration.
And again, where we're living,we are in very rural areas.
We're off the grid where our centeris. We make all of our own electricity.
We're sustainable. We'vegot solar panels everywhere.
We've got a major biomassprogram, we're looking at biomass,
(21:10):
electricity. So it's been a very,
very interesting processto try to develop something
in the middle of nowhere.
Right.
And do it.
Successfully.
Successfully.
And then share that with otherpeople to realize that we've got a
lot of sun in an arid landscapethat we can do different things,
(21:31):
but also to try to helppeople not to again, live in,
in such a poor way. So we'vegot women's training programs.
We've been able to put, you know,
women to making crafts andother items that can be sold.
We've tried to make aglobal market for these
materials and equipment.
We've developed a habitatrestoration project where,
(21:54):
interestingly enough, that ifyou over graze an arid landscape,
sometimes other thingsgrow that you don't want.
Weeds.
Weeds. In Africa we get thickin the thorn bushes that grow.
And if a cheetah is running 70miles an hour through these thorn
bushes, it can scratch their eyes.
If it scratches theireyes and may become blind,
(22:17):
then they're gonna maybe catch livestock,which is what a problem animal is.
And most of the animals that we'veworked on for cheetahs are not problem
animals. They're healthy,
but if they have an illnessor a sickness or are blinded,
they then become a problem animal.
Then they put the bad name onall the other predators. So,
(22:37):
those are some of the thingsthat we've been able to,
I'm gonna say fare it out by working withthe farming community and all so many
animals. If an animal gets caught,
the farmers call us, we willanesthetize it, take blood tissues,
do a full screening of the animal,
and then we'll most of the time be ableto call her and then put it back out
(23:00):
into the wild.
And that helps the farmers know howthat she is living on their land.
And we can share more informationwith the farmers along that line.
Interesting.
And I also read that you have studentscome from all over the world to
volunteer or intern zoologists come. So,
it's kind of grown intothis learning center.
(23:20):
It's a huge, yeah.
We've got a very big researchand education center in Namibia,
and we welcome internsfrom all walks of life.
But many of the universities from,of course, California universities.
We get a lot of students from UC Davis.
My alma mater.
Great. We like it. Oh,great. Good for you.
(23:40):
And from we've got great relationshipsin places like Oregon and throughout.
I'm traveling now throughout thecountry doing lectures at many of the
universities that we work with.And so, we love to get students.
We get great students from Namibiaand other areas of Africa as well,
because we're also trying to trainthe best scientists for Africa.
(24:02):
So that they could take over all thework and, you know, it's their country.
Right.
Continent. And what we want isto be able to help provide the
opportunities to have the bestAfrican scientists there are,
and I'm very proud after allthese years that my students and
interns are, I'm gonna say in manyways, running much of Namibia.
(24:26):
Interesting.
They're running the wildlifedepartments, the agriculture departments,
the education departments.
But they started at theCheetah Conservation Fund.
As an intern.
Wow. Interesting.
And they're now running ourorganization, so, so it's quite nice.
We also have a very, verybig ecotourism component, so.
Because we do have a verylarge wildlife reserve with all
(24:48):
aspects of wildlife fromcheetahs and leopards and hyenas,
but kudus and oribs and.
Oh wow.
Giraffe. I mean, every..
It's all there in the reserve.
It's all there. And with that,
we do have an ecotourismlodge, a small lodge,
and we welcome people,guests to come and visit.
We're open to the public every day.
(25:09):
We have visitors who come andsee the work that we're doing,
learn about our livestock guarding dogsand all the aspects of research that is
ongoing.
Speaking of that,
is there a website or a Facebookpage that folks could learn more?
Absolutely. Please go to ourwebsite. It's cheetah.org.
It's a great website, obviouseasy name for what we do.
(25:32):
Our Facebook is @ccfcheetah
or #SavetheCheetah.
So, for folks that believe in the causeand want to help more, you are a 501c3,
how can they get more involved?
Well, we'd love people toget more involved with us.
Most of our funding does come fromthe United States private funds,
(25:54):
basically from people whocare about what we're doing.
There's many ways to get involved.So go to our website, cheetah.org.
But also,
there you can find out about how youcan sponsor one of our orphan cheetahs,
which we've are now takingcare of about 130 cheetahs.
Wow. How much does that cost peryear to take care of a cheetah?
(26:14):
It's close to $6,000to $8,000 per cheetah.
Wow.
So that adds up really quickly.
And you have a hundred cheetahs right now?
130.
Wow.
Yeah. I know that is hard and, but we,
but you can sponsor part of a cheetah.
You can give a cheetah assomebody's gift for their birthday,
(26:34):
or Mother's Day, or Father'sDay or Christmas or whatever.
So do go to our website and learnabout the cheetah sponsorship,
because that's really helpful.
Then you get a story about thecheetah and a picture on the cheetah.
You can select whichcheetah you wanna sponsor.
But you can also help sponsora livestock guarding dog.
And that's a little bit more generic,
but oftentimes we even have ways thatyou can name a dog or name a cheetah.
(26:58):
We have chapters throughout thecountry. And these chapters, again,
try to help bring awarenesstogether and raise funds to help us
with the work that we're doing.And in Namibia and our whole staff,
we've got about 200 staff members.
Oh, wow.
Pretty large.
It's big.
And with that, trying to help savethe last cheetahs in the world,
(27:19):
that's a really critical thing. So,
we hope people will learnmore about what we are doing.
You can do a monthly donation, evena $5 all adds up and it all helps.
So, thank you.
Absolutely.
Ah, our motto is, "Save theCheetah, Change the World.".
Well, speaking of that, if you don't mind,
I got a quote that is from you.
(27:40):
"We always think there is someoneelse who will do something, that,
'They,' will take care of it. I realizedearly in my work that there is no,
'They.' And so I decided that I wouldtake action to save the cheetah from
extinction." I lovethat. I love that quote.
Yeah. Thank you. Yes. Well,
I hope others will join andI hope you'll come and visit.
I would, I would love to.Well, Dr. Laurie Marker,
(28:01):
I wanna thank you for being ourguest on this edition of On the Road.
We loved having you, and wewill help spread the word.
Thank you very much.
Absolutely. And we want tothank our sponsor, Opus Escrow.
And be sure to tune innext time for On the Road.
Hi friends, it's Paul Ward, andwelcome to On the Road. Well,
we all have our favoriteanimal, horse, dog, cat.
Maybe something wild like a bear. Well,today's guest is truly next level.
She moved from the United Statesto Africa to protect wild cheetahs.
Dr. Laurie Marker with theCheetah Conservation Fund.
(00:26):
Welcome to On the Road.
Thank you.
And we wanna thank oursponsor, Opus Escrow. So,
I certainly wanna hear your story.
It's fascinating how you decidedto move from the United States
to Namibia.
But first tell us what is theCheetah Conservation Fund?
Well,
the Cheetah Conservation Fundis the leading organization in the world to try to
(00:49):
keep cheetahs living free in the wild.And I'm based in Namibia, Africa.
Little bit of ways away.
Right.
From the United States rightnow. And so, our programs
really revolve around working directlywith the communities on whose land the
cheetah's living. The cheetahis a fast, big cat. Right.
(01:11):
It's the fastest land animal.
It is one of the mostunique of all the big cats.
And they are found in Africa. And ourjob is to try to save them in the wild.
And I read that you were concerned,
or you got involved because localfarmers were just killing cheetahs.
Right.
They were killing themto protect their goats,
(01:32):
which seems crazy to killthese big, beautiful animals.
But you took it uponyourself to make a change.
Right. And I started my work inAfrica in the middle seventies.
And that's when I actually found thatfarmers were killing cheetahs at such a
high rate. And it was livestock farmers.And it was not only their goats,
their sheep, but also theircalves and their cattle.
(01:55):
Much of Africa has kind of animalson the hoof that they travel.
Many of 'em are pastoral ormany of them are very poor.
And with this, any loss to theirlivestock becomes a problem. And so,
I think globally, we as people killpredators because we're afraid of them.
Right.
(02:15):
And what we try to do is to teach peoplehow to live in harmony with not only
the predators, but the rest of nature.
And so, you created this, the fund,the Cheetah Conservation Fund,
and you're located on a wildlife preserve?
Yes. We're based on about 150,000 acres.
Oh, that's big.
And it's very big
(02:37):
Okay.
And there we do manage all of ourwildlife. We're also a model farm.
And a part of what's called a conservancy,
and a conservancy is where youlive with wildlife on your land
instead of just in a national park,and you manage your livestock.
And so you can all live together.Now, a lot of that though,
(02:57):
for cheetahs is the fact that cheetahsaren't found in protected areas.
80% of the remaining cheetahs areall found outside of protected areas.
That's why working with people becomessuch an important part of the work that
we do.
Interesting.
And I read that you're alsousing dogs to keep the cheetahs
and the other wildlifeaway from the farm animals.
(03:19):
Right.
How does that, how does that work?
Well, there are big breeds of dogs,which are called livestock guarding dogs.
And we use a dog that camefrom Turkey originally.
It is actually, they're a Turkishdog. It's called the Kangal,
or the Anatolian Shepherd.It's a very large dog.
And we breed and place thesedogs when they're puppies.
(03:44):
Usually at about three monthsof age with the livestock.
And they grow up with the livestockthat they wanna protect. So,
anything that they are growingup with, they will protect.
And they do this by markingterritory, by barking loudly,
by saying anything that is aroundthat's not supposed to be there,
(04:04):
they bark loudly, and they say,
"Go away!" And most predatorsdon't wanna just come and get
eaten or, you know, mauled by a dog.And I think a lot of people think that
predators are livestock, you know,
catching animals just becausethat's what they'll do. But really,
if you protect your livestock,
(04:25):
then indeed you can livein harmony with nature.
And I Would imagineyou've seen a big drop in
livestock kills usingdogs and then training or
working with local farmers tomaybe acquire dogs and kind
of replicate the program.
Very much so. So,
(04:46):
we see between an 80 to a hundredpercent decrease of livestock loss
for the people who have the dog. And westarted the program about 30 years ago.
We've been able to place over 800 dogs,and they are just absolutely incredible.
We've got about a two-year waiting list.Everybody wants a dog. So, with that,
we work harder at, you know,
(05:08):
bringing new bloodlines in breeding them,
selecting which farmers can get them,because you have to take care of the dog.
And also, we say you have to trainthe farmer, and really not the dog.
Because the dog's very instinctual.But so, with our training programs,
we have a program that wecall Future Farmers of Africa.
(05:28):
I grew up as a future farmer of America.
I had dairy goats and wasa judge around the country,
and also grew up on the backof my horse. So, with that,
I felt that that was a reallyappropriate way to help get the
livestock farmers in Africa, a littlebit more engaged in maybe Africa.
Africa's all about wildlife.Beautiful wildlife. Amazing wildlife.
(05:52):
And yet how to live with the wildlifeis something that we as humans
around the world have forgot thatwe can do. Right. But it is doable.
And that's a lot of whatwe do, is we teach how to.
So, do you feel in your,
I guess 30 plus years living inAfrica that the continent is much more
conservation mindedthan when you got there?
(06:15):
I believe so. When I workthroughout the cheetahs range;
the cheetahs found in about20 countries in about 33
populations.
And out of that 20 of these populationsare under a hundred individuals.
So,
I've actually brought people fromthroughout most of Africa's cheetah
(06:36):
range countries and train them atour training center in Namibia.
And there it has been very worthwhileby working together with other people
who understand peoplefrom the governments.
And we've been trying hard toactually scale up the programs that
we've developed in Namibia,
(06:56):
in other African rangecountries for cheetahs.
Now, are you breeding cheetahs? Is thata silly question? Or is it all wild?
All wild. We do not breed cheetahs,
and in Namibia they don't want captiveanimals or captive animals being
bred. And that also can lead tothe illegal wildlife pet trade.
(07:17):
As something to think about.
But we work together with the governmentto try to keep the animals free and in
the wild. I mean, that'swhat Africa's all about.
It's not having them all inzoos like we do here in America.
And so, from the Namibian perspective,
we work together with the government andthe people to try to have the animals
living in the wild. But with that,
(07:39):
we do end up with orphansand with these orphans,
many of them cannot go backout into the wild. And so,
then we have to take care of them.
And then they're oftentimesused in our ongoing research.
We are a research organization,
and what we are trying to do isunderstand more about the basic biology,
the basic, you know, genetics ofthe cheetahs, how they live. So,
(08:02):
we have a lot of very extensiveresearch projects as well,
which are very interesting.
But we kind of wrote the bookon how the cheetah lives.
We are the first organization that'sdealt with cheetahs in the wild.
And over the years that we'vebeen doing this now many of our,
we publish our papers and publishour research and then continually
(08:25):
try to find out more about how touse that research into an applied
conservation. Like the use ofthe livestock guardian dogs,
farmers are having problems, we want tohelp them. But then on the other side,
we wanted to understand moreabout the ecology of the cheetah.
How they're living out there in thewild. And they've got huge home ranges,
larger ranges than any otheranimal actually in the world.
(08:48):
Even though we think of the elephant asbeing so big. Covering a lot of area.
Cheetahs' home ranges areclose to 800 square miles.
Wow. What In one individual?
One individual.
Wow. That's huge.
It is huge. And they livein a very low density. So,
cheetahs are interesting. Their behavior:
male cheetahs bond togetherfrom the time they're born;
(09:08):
they stick together their entirelives. And that's called a coalition.
Only males?
Only males. And so, as the
female has a litter of cubs,and she can have up to six,
but four or five is usually average.
The cubs will stay with their momsuntil they're about 18 to 22 months.
During that period of time,she's covering huge areas,
(09:32):
teaching them what thewhole range look like.
And then when the males are at about18 (months) a year and a half or so
they and the female cubs dispersetogether from the mother.
And they stick together for maybesix months until dominant males come
in, chase the young males away,and then we'll breed the females.
(09:54):
The females stay within theirmother's home range. So,
it's a matriarchal society, basically. So,
we've learned all thisand it's really exciting,
interesting to understandhow they're living.
And then we can share that informationback with the farming community to get
people to know how they're moving.
Do you feel that thebreed is healthy? I mean,
just because of conservation effortsand the population is growing
(10:18):
versus what was happening, you know,
30 years ago when farmerswere killing them off?
Or is it kind of a tough question?
It's tough question because Ihave to say extinction takes time.
And for the number ofanimals that had been killed
before we set up our foundation andthe work that we've done we have,
are trying to stabilizethese populations. And again,
(10:41):
we have been able to stabilizethe population in Namibia.
The global population for cheetahsis only about 7,000 individuals.
That's it?
That's it.
Oh, it's tiny.
It's very tiny.
I did not realize that.
And so then when you end up withvery small pockets you end up
with more in breeding. Andthat leads to other problems.
The cheetahs also a speciesthat lacks genetic diversity.
(11:05):
And that goes back to many of ourstudies that started back in the early
eighties when we discoveredthe lack of genetic diversity.
Our partnerships havebeen with the Smithsonian,
with the National Cancer Institute.
And our research then reallycreated a lot of what conservation
biology is really about today,
(11:25):
because it wasn't just lookingat the numbers of animals,
it was understanding theoverall health of them.
And we started understanding that.
And then as I moved toNamibia over 30 years ago,
we started collecting this informationthat allowed us to piece together a lot
of information in workingwith the governments,
but also sharing that information backwith our partners in zoos here in the
(11:48):
United States or in Europe,
where there are only about 2000cheetahs living in captivity.
And they still don't breedall that well in captivity.
But we've been able to help our captivezoo partners in understanding more about
how to keep the cheetahs living healthy.
With that it's really important tokeep them free and living in the wild.
(12:11):
And not only are we dealing with thehuman wildlife conflict aspects in
the Southern African area,
but that is also a problem forthe cheetah throughout its range.
And another area that we work veryclosely in is in the Horn of Africa.
And that is an area inEthiopia and the Somaliland.
The Somaliland is a breakaway of Somali.
(12:34):
And Somaliland is anarea that has the illegal
wildlife pet trade. It wasgoing through Somaliland
very short distance over to Yemen and up
into the Middle East,
which is where many of the peoplethere wanted to have cheetahs as pets.
(12:54):
As a status symbol.
Gotcha.
And so, over the last decade,
we've been very involved in trying tostop the illegal wildlife pet trade.
And that has been pretty devastating.
I did read that the Cheetah ConservationFund, though, you've expanded beyond,
I mean, you've got multiple locations.
(13:15):
Locations, yes. Well, the next biglocation is that of Somaliland.
Okay.
And because we've now got 97 cheetahsjust in the last couple years
that have come in to us that havebeen confiscated from the trade.
Oh,
they were captured alive and thentaken by wildlife officials and then
(13:35):
brought to you.
Right. Right. Right.
They were on their way to theMiddle East or wherever to be pets?
Pets. But as they, if onecat makes it as a pet,
as a cub, they're caught as cubs.
Four to five usually die for everyone that might make it there.
They will only have a lifespan for ayear or two because the people don't know
(13:56):
how to take care of themproperly. And so. It's been very,
very devastating for that Horn ofAfrica population, which is very,
very small. And so.
We've then taken a lot of our programsthat we've developed in Namibia,
like our farmer training program andour school education programs and
have now adapted everythingfor the Horn of Africa.
(14:18):
We also work out of East Africa,
which was also where many of ourprograms have been adapted as well.
And so, we're trying to stop the trade.
Much of it is driven byhuman wildlife conflict.
And to try again to keep the cheetahsliving free and in the wild by working
with the communities. So, communitysupport is really important.
(14:43):
So backtracking, what made you decide,
I think it was 1990 to move fromthe US and what were you doing?
And then all of a sudden say, "Hey,I'm moving to Africa. I need to,
I wanna do this, I need to do this.".
Right, right. Well, I did grow updown here in Southern California,
(15:03):
and as I said, I grew up in the backof my horse and I was a pony clubber.
I'm 4H and a Future Farmer of America.
I was in agricultureand had moved from here
southern California to Northern Californiaand actually became a wine maker and
a grape grower.
(15:24):
Interesting. So, you'reNapa region? Sonoma?
Napa, yep. And then from theremoved to Oregon as the new frontier.
And I was the third bondedwinery in all of Oregon and
had started the Oregonwine industry. However,
a wildlife park had just openedabout five miles from my vineyard.
(15:44):
And it grew,
opened about the same time as the SanDiego Wild Animal Park had started.
Our park was called Wildlife Safari,modeled very similarly open free range.
And we were one of the few places inthe world that had cheetahs. And so,
growing up with mybackground with animals,
I got a job there to support my business.
(16:05):
Although my job there took mylife basically
And I ran the veterinary clinic andthe cheetahs came under my care.
And I was fascinated.
Nobody in the world knew about cheetahsand I wanted to know everything there
was to know about cheetahs. And Iwrote to people around the world,
and they basically wrote back and said,
"When you find out somethingabout cheetahs, let us know.".
(16:26):
Were you a viticulture personat the same time you were a vet?
Yes.
Oh, interesting.
And I'm not a vet, I'ma vet. I was a vet tech.
Gotcha.
And grew up taking care of and workingwith the veterinarians my whole
childhood and thought I was goingto be a vet but ended up going into
agriculture instead.
So, you fell in love with the cheetah'cause you were at the wildlife safari.
(16:48):
The wildlife safari.
Safari in Oregon. And then youheard about the plight in Africa.
Well, no, I found out aboutthe plight in Africa, actually.
I had a research project thatI was asked to do in Namibia.
And that was in the middle 1970s.
And it was to find out if a captive borncheetah could go back out into the wild
and learn how to hunt. Now I have to say,
(17:10):
my life has come full circle because todaywe're actually rehabilitating animals
back into the wild wherethey have gone extinct.
But I did the first researchproject with a cheetah that I
had raised in Oregon andwent over to Namibia and
taught her how to hunt.But at the same time,
(17:30):
that's when I found out that farmers werekilling eight to 900 cheetahs a year.
Wow.
And in a decade when I wasin Namibia finding this out
and coming back toAmerica and saying, "Hey,
did you know that the cheetahs caughtall these problems in the wild?" That
nobody in the world seemed to care about.
Nearly 10,000 cheetahs were killed bythe farming community during that period
(17:54):
of time.
Wow.
And I kept going back to Namibia; keptgoing back to other areas of Africa.
The same time I developed an entire
national and then globalcaptive program to help maintain
the cheetahs in captivity.
And our genetic research cameinto all of that as well.
But we needed to know more aboutwhat the wild cheetah looked like,
(18:16):
and we needed to stop thetrade and the killing.
And so from that point, Imoved to the National Zoo and..
In Washington?
In Washington, and I was runninga research program there,
which combined the aspects ofgenetics, reproductive physiology,
vet medicine to look at wild populations.
(18:36):
And so I was one of the first of ourteam to go over and put it all together
to try to help save theendangered cheetah. And so,
in 1990 when Namibia got its independence,
I basically sold my belongings,got enough money for a Land Rover,
moved to Namibia, and that wasnow almost 35 years ago. So that,
(18:58):
that was my life. Who knewwhat was gonna happen.
Right.
But I learned a lot about cheetahs.
I've learned a lot aboutwhat their problems are.
But what we've done is we'velearned about the solutions.
And the solutions are really aboutworking closely together with communities,
which,
I had mentioned early on that most of thepeople that I'm working with are quite
(19:21):
marginalized. Uneducatedbecause of lack of education.
Very, very poor. And the areas thatthe cheetah's living in is very,
very arid landscapes.
We're living in some of thedriest desert landscapes.
And then with that,
trying to help these communitiesget out of poverty basically.
(19:43):
And when a cheetah kills their livestock,
that puts them even more into poverty.
Right.
And so many of our programsreally try to look at helping the
communities' livelihoods.And that might be,
well, if you take better care ofyour livestock and know how to,
through good livestock management,maybe the right vaccine,
(20:08):
the right dewormers,trimming of the hooves,
things like this your livestockis gonna live and not die.
And if it's not sick, it's notgonna be at the end of your herd.
And then a predator's not gonna catch it.
Right. Right.
So,
all of those things are things that manyof the farmers did never think about.
And then we've also taught,
(20:28):
them how to do things likemake goat milk cheese.
And that's part of the farm atthe Conservation Wildlife Center?
Yes. Yes.
And we have farmers comeinto us to learn these
kinds of skills.
And with that then they can put a littledairy together out in their communities
(20:50):
and make their own cheese. You cando this even without refrigeration.
And again, where we're living,we are in very rural areas.
We're off the grid where our centeris. We make all of our own electricity.
We're sustainable. We'vegot solar panels everywhere.
We've got a major biomassprogram, we're looking at biomass,
(21:10):
electricity. So it's been a very,
very interesting processto try to develop something
in the middle of nowhere.
Right.
And do it.
Successfully.
Successfully.
And then share that with otherpeople to realize that we've got a
lot of sun in an arid landscapethat we can do different things,
(21:31):
but also to try to helppeople not to again, live in,
in such a poor way. So we'vegot women's training programs.
We've been able to put, you know,
women to making crafts andother items that can be sold.
We've tried to make aglobal market for these
materials and equipment.
We've developed a habitatrestoration project where,
(21:54):
interestingly enough, that ifyou over graze an arid landscape,
sometimes other thingsgrow that you don't want.
Weeds.
Weeds. In Africa we get thickin the thorn bushes that grow.
And if a cheetah is running 70miles an hour through these thorn
bushes, it can scratch their eyes.
If it scratches theireyes and may become blind,
(22:17):
then they're gonna maybe catch livestock,which is what a problem animal is.
And most of the animals that we'veworked on for cheetahs are not problem
animals. They're healthy,
but if they have an illnessor a sickness or are blinded,
they then become a problem animal.
Then they put the bad name onall the other predators. So,
(22:37):
those are some of the thingsthat we've been able to,
I'm gonna say fare it out by working withthe farming community and all so many
animals. If an animal gets caught,
the farmers call us, we willanesthetize it, take blood tissues,
do a full screening of the animal,
and then we'll most of the time be ableto call her and then put it back out
(23:00):
into the wild.
And that helps the farmers know howthat she is living on their land.
And we can share more informationwith the farmers along that line.
Interesting.
And I also read that you have studentscome from all over the world to
volunteer or intern zoologists come. So,
it's kind of grown intothis learning center.
(23:20):
It's a huge, yeah.
We've got a very big researchand education center in Namibia,
and we welcome internsfrom all walks of life.
But many of the universities from,of course, California universities.
We get a lot of students from UC Davis.
My alma mater.
Great. We like it. Oh,great. Good for you.
(23:40):
And from we've got great relationshipsin places like Oregon and throughout.
I'm traveling now throughout thecountry doing lectures at many of the
universities that we work with.And so, we love to get students.
We get great students from Namibiaand other areas of Africa as well,
because we're also trying to trainthe best scientists for Africa.
(24:02):
So that they could take over all thework and, you know, it's their country.
Right.
Continent. And what we want isto be able to help provide the
opportunities to have the bestAfrican scientists there are,
and I'm very proud after allthese years that my students and
interns are, I'm gonna say in manyways, running much of Namibia.
(24:26):
Interesting.
They're running the wildlifedepartments, the agriculture departments,
the education departments.
But they started at theCheetah Conservation Fund.
As an intern.
Wow. Interesting.
And they're now running ourorganization, so, so it's quite nice.
We also have a very, verybig ecotourism component, so.
Because we do have a verylarge wildlife reserve with all
(24:48):
aspects of wildlife fromcheetahs and leopards and hyenas,
but kudus and oribs and.
Oh wow.
Giraffe. I mean, every..
It's all there in the reserve.
It's all there. And with that,
we do have an ecotourismlodge, a small lodge,
and we welcome people,guests to come and visit.
We're open to the public every day.
(25:09):
We have visitors who come andsee the work that we're doing,
learn about our livestock guarding dogsand all the aspects of research that is
ongoing.
Speaking of that,
is there a website or a Facebookpage that folks could learn more?
Absolutely. Please go to ourwebsite. It's cheetah.org.
It's a great website, obviouseasy name for what we do.
(25:32):
Our Facebook is @ccfcheetah
or #SavetheCheetah.
So, for folks that believe in the causeand want to help more, you are a 501c3,
how can they get more involved?
Well, we'd love people toget more involved with us.
Most of our funding does come fromthe United States private funds,
(25:54):
basically from people whocare about what we're doing.
There's many ways to get involved.So go to our website, cheetah.org.
But also,
there you can find out about how youcan sponsor one of our orphan cheetahs,
which we've are now takingcare of about 130 cheetahs.
Wow. How much does that cost peryear to take care of a cheetah?
(26:14):
It's close to $6,000to $8,000 per cheetah.
Wow.
So that adds up really quickly.
And you have a hundred cheetahs right now?
130.
Wow.
Yeah. I know that is hard and, but we,
but you can sponsor part of a cheetah.
You can give a cheetah assomebody's gift for their birthday,
(26:34):
or Mother's Day, or Father'sDay or Christmas or whatever.
So do go to our website and learnabout the cheetah sponsorship,
because that's really helpful.
Then you get a story about thecheetah and a picture on the cheetah.
You can select whichcheetah you wanna sponsor.
But you can also help sponsora livestock guarding dog.
And that's a little bit more generic,
but oftentimes we even have ways thatyou can name a dog or name a cheetah.
(26:58):
We have chapters throughout thecountry. And these chapters, again,
try to help bring awarenesstogether and raise funds to help us
with the work that we're doing.And in Namibia and our whole staff,
we've got about 200 staff members.
Oh, wow.
Pretty large.
It's big.
And with that, trying to help savethe last cheetahs in the world,
(27:19):
that's a really critical thing. So,
we hope people will learnmore about what we are doing.
You can do a monthly donation, evena $5 all adds up and it all helps.
So, thank you.
Absolutely.
Ah, our motto is, "Save theCheetah, Change the World.".
Well, speaking of that, if you don't mind,
I got a quote that is from you.
(27:40):
"We always think there is someoneelse who will do something, that,
'They,' will take care of it. I realizedearly in my work that there is no,
'They.' And so I decided that I wouldtake action to save the cheetah from
extinction." I lovethat. I love that quote.
Yeah. Thank you. Yes. Well,
I hope others will join andI hope you'll come and visit.
I would, I would love to.Well, Dr. Laurie Marker,
(28:01):
I wanna thank you for being ourguest on this edition of On the Road.
We loved having you, and wewill help spread the word.
Thank you very much.
Absolutely. And we want tothank our sponsor, Opus Escrow.
And be sure to tune innext time for On the Road.
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